[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_137":-5,"_138":-5,"_139":140,"_141":142,"_143":144},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1044/know-when-its-time-to-go","id",1044,"title","Know when it's time to go","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.080\ndifferent and you just have to always think about how happy or how unhappy you\n\n2\n00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:07.000\nare and\n\n3\n00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:09.240\nwhat is the ROI?\n\n4\n00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:14.410\nWhat is, are you making so much money that it's worth you staying for a while\n\n5\n00:00:14.410 --> 00:00:15.160\nto finish\n\n6\n00:00:15.160 --> 00:00:17.120\npaying for your kids college?\n\n7\n00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:23.590\nIs it so miserable that you don't care and you'll get a waiting job to pay your\n\n8\n00:00:23.590 --> 00:00:24.360\nrent?\n\n9\n00:00:24.360 --> 00:00:28.760\nI mean, everyone has different situations and you don't know.\n\n10\n00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:33.840\nWhat I do know now is all the fear of, \"Oh my God, what if I leave?\"\n\n11\n00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:38.850\nAnd when you do leave, the relief that comes over you from all the problems\n\n12\n00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:39.440\nthat can't be\n\n13\n00:00:39.440 --> 00:00:43.920\nfixed is amazing, which I'm sure you could relate to.\n\n14\n00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:48.730\nYou've run big companies and then you change jobs or directions and all the\n\n15\n00:00:48.730 --> 00:00:49.640\nthings that\n\n16\n00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:54.920\nkept you up at night, you're like, \"Not my problem anymore.\"\n\n17\n00:00:54.920 --> 00:01:01.480\nBut thank God I had the experience and when I left Bobby Brown Cosmetics, I was\n\n18\n00:01:01.480 --> 00:01:02.960\n59.9 years\n\n19\n00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:06.840\nold without knowing anything that I was going to do.\n\n20\n00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.880\nI walked away and it was like, I thought I was done.\n\n21\n00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:13.000\nI thought people weren't going to care about me.\n\n22\n00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:18.390\nI thought people weren't going to ask me any questions anymore and it became\n\n23\n00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:19.320\nthe opposite.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1349490,"end_time",1427300,"keywords","quitting, new chapters, walking away, resigning, career change","slug","know-when-its-time-to-go","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","X00FBrab7BYGR2vVeRg7PStPkOTKlX5vMTdwnfQ93Wxs","mux_asset_id","j3qGjPe3VrPNDQGnCadw48NQSmEqEsXt4RmRsyk8uKo","leader_id",132,"episode_id",280,"updated_at","2025-03-07T15:19:41.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1044/know-when-its-time-to-go","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":110,"_111":112,"_69":113,"_39":114,"_115":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_116":117,"_89":118,"_44":119,"_120":121,"_122":123,"_46":-5,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_93":128,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Surround Yourself With the Right Partners","surround-yourself-with-the-right-partners","Learn how Bobbi Brown makes her incredible creativity go even farther by surrounding herself with complementary partners. Discover the two biggest qualities any entrepreneur needs in order to be successful. Plus, a boatload of inspiration for anyone who thrives by doing things in nontraditional ways.","summary","

Today’s guest is Bobbi Brown, Founder of Bobbi Brown Cosmetics & CEO of Beauty Evolution.

She is an absolute creative genius. Not just in makeup. In her whole life! When Bobbi comes up against a problem, she approaches it in the most wonderful and nontraditional ways.

And it works! She basically reinvented makeup in the 80s. She built a billion dollar brand. Today, she’s leading a successful wellness brand called Beauty Evolution. And she’s doing it all by the beat of her own drum.

But she’s not doing it alone. Along the way, she has found some incredible partners – people whose skill sets go hand in hand with her creativity. And they’re accomplishing these big goals together.

As leaders, we all have unique gifts. But we need the right people alongside us to counterbalance those gifts. To fill in the gaps. To see into our blind spots. And help us do more than we ever could alone.

Thanks to Bobbi, you’re about to learn that wonderful things happen when we surround ourselves with the right partners.

You’ll also learn:

The two biggest qualities you need to have as an entrepreneur
Practical advice for connecting with creative people on your team
What traits you need to tap into in order to become a more impactful teacher
How to lean into being yourself and knowing yourself – and why it’s crucial for leaders

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.Today’s guest is Bobbi Brown, Founder of Bobbi Brown Cosmetics & CEO of Beauty Evolution.

She is an absolute creative genius. Not just in makeup. In her whole life! When Bobbi comes up against a problem, she approaches it in the most wonderful and nontraditional ways.

Thanks to Bobbi, you’re about to learn that wonderful things happen when we surround ourselves with the right partners.

You’ll also learn:

The two biggest qualities you need to have as an entrepreneur
Practical advice for connecting with creative people on your team
What traits you need to tap into in order to become a more impactful teacher
How to lean into being yourself and knowing yourself – and why it’s crucial for leaders

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.520\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:07.520 --> 00:00:08.360\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.360 --> 00:00:10.400\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:13.840\nI break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:13.840 --> 00:00:14.440\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.440 --> 00:00:18.080\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.080 --> 00:00:20.840\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:20.840 --> 00:00:26.260\nNow today's guest is Bobby Brown, the founder of Bobby Brown Cosmetics and CEO\n\n9\n00:00:26.260 --> 00:00:27.000\nof Beauty\n\n10\n00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.880\nEvolution.\n\n11\n00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:34.720\nShe is an absolute creative genius, not just in makeup, in her whole life.\n\n12\n00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:38.520\nWhen Bobby comes up against problems, she approaches them in the most wonderful\n\n13\n00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:38.760\nand\n\n14\n00:00:38.760 --> 00:00:40.880\nnon-traditional ways.\n\n15\n00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:42.520\nAnd boy does it work.\n\n16\n00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:47.490\nShe basically reinvented makeup in the 80s, and then she built a billion dollar\n\n17\n00:00:47.490 --> 00:00:47.880\nbrand\n\n18\n00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:52.480\nand now she's leading a successful wellness brand called Beauty Evolution.\n\n19\n00:00:52.480 --> 00:00:56.440\nAnd she's doing it all by the beat of her own drum.\n\n20\n00:00:56.440 --> 00:00:59.600\nBut hear this, she's not doing it alone.\n\n21\n00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.600\nAlong the way, she has found some incredible partners, people whose skill sets\n\n22\n00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:04.160\ngo hand in\n\n23\n00:01:04.160 --> 00:01:09.360\nhand with her creativity, and they're accomplishing these big goals together.\n\n24\n00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:13.450\nYou know as leaders, we all have unique gifts, but we need the right people\n\n25\n00:01:13.450 --> 00:01:14.280\nalongside us\n\n26\n00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:19.390\nto counterbalance those gifts, to fill in the gaps, to see into our blind spots\n\n27\n00:01:19.390 --> 00:01:19.880\n, and\n\n28\n00:01:19.880 --> 00:01:23.400\nto help us do more than we ever could alone.\n\n29\n00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:27.090\nThanks to Bobby, you're about to learn that wonderful things happen when we\n\n30\n00:01:27.090 --> 00:01:27.680\nsurround\n\n31\n00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:29.840\nourselves with the right partners.\n\n32\n00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:36.900\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Bobby\n\n33\n00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:37.920\nBrown.\n\n34\n00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:45.800\nBobby, I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this conversation\n\n35\n00:01:45.800 --> 00:01:45.960\n.\n\n36\n00:01:45.960 --> 00:01:46.960\nThanks for taking the time.\n\n37\n00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:48.840\nOh, it's my pleasure to talk to you.\n\n38\n00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.840\nAnd it's also really interesting and fun that I got to meet you last week\n\n39\n00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:53.920\nsocially over,\n\n40\n00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:55.240\nyou know, a nice cocktail.\n\n41\n00:01:55.240 --> 00:01:57.160\nSo I'm looking forward to this.\n\n42\n00:01:57.160 --> 00:02:01.820\nBobby, every woman I've talked to, that I've said, \"Boy, I'm going to have a\n\n43\n00:02:01.820 --> 00:02:02.320\npodcast\n\n44\n00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:03.320\nwith Bobby Brown.\"\n\n45\n00:02:03.320 --> 00:02:04.960\nThey go, \"You got to be kidding me.\"\n\n46\n00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:09.530\nYou know, they're so excited to hear the podcast, but what's it like to have a\n\n47\n00:02:09.530 --> 00:02:09.960\nname\n\n48\n00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:13.680\nthat's synonymous with one of the great beauty brands in the world?\n\n49\n00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.160\nWell, the great thing is I don't have a face that's that synonymous.\n\n50\n00:02:17.160 --> 00:02:22.910\nSo I could walk around and not be bothered, but it's interesting to be able to\n\n51\n00:02:22.910 --> 00:02:23.440\ndrop a\n\n52\n00:02:23.440 --> 00:02:25.040\nname and people know it.\n\n53\n00:02:25.040 --> 00:02:29.910\nI was added for so long, I never realized the scope of it until I left the\n\n54\n00:02:29.910 --> 00:02:30.800\ncompany.\n\n55\n00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:35.360\nI want to get to the brand itself, but first I want to take you way back.\n\n56\n00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:40.320\nCan you tell us a story about yourself as a kid that will tell us a lot about\n\n57\n00:02:40.320 --> 00:02:40.920\nthe leader\n\n58\n00:02:40.920 --> 00:02:42.160\nthat you've become?\n\n59\n00:02:42.160 --> 00:02:43.160\nI'm sure.\n\n60\n00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:48.720\nI mean, I had a pretty ordinary growing up in the suburbs of Chicago, the\n\n61\n00:02:48.720 --> 00:02:49.920\noldest of three\n\n62\n00:02:49.920 --> 00:02:55.640\nkids with a mother and father who were 20 and 21 when I was born.\n\n63\n00:02:55.640 --> 00:03:02.200\nAnd pretty much I just was this normal kid and watching my parents kind of grow\n\n64\n00:03:02.200 --> 00:03:02.320\nup in\n\n65\n00:03:02.320 --> 00:03:03.640\nfront of me.\n\n66\n00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:07.920\nAnd I think probably the most remarkable thing at the time was my relationship\n\n67\n00:03:07.920 --> 00:03:10.280\nwith my grandparents,\n\n68\n00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:16.060\nNana and Papa, who were probably in their 40s when I was born, and which is now\n\n69\n00:03:16.060 --> 00:03:16.400\nhow\n\n70\n00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:20.000\nold parents are today and how old I was for my third kid.\n\n71\n00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:25.220\nBut being with them, aid gave me the security and comfort to be down to earth\n\n72\n00:03:25.220 --> 00:03:26.160\nand myself.\n\n73\n00:03:26.160 --> 00:03:32.290\nBut I got to watch Papa Sam do his business and honestly, everything I learned\n\n74\n00:03:32.290 --> 00:03:33.360\nin business,\n\n75\n00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:35.040\nI learned watching Papa Sam.\n\n76\n00:03:35.040 --> 00:03:37.040\nWhat was his business, Bobby?\n\n77\n00:03:37.040 --> 00:03:41.910\nHe came over from Russia not knowing anyone and the story is that he had a\n\n78\n00:03:41.910 --> 00:03:42.800\npaper route\n\n79\n00:03:42.800 --> 00:03:48.460\nas a young kid and then he had a woman's purse line and then he ended up to be\n\n80\n00:03:48.460 --> 00:03:49.280\nCadillac\n\n81\n00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:55.560\nSam, well known for being the guy that would get you the Cadillac in Chicago.\n\n82\n00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:57.480\nAnd I just watched him market.\n\n83\n00:03:57.480 --> 00:04:03.000\nI watched him treat his customers, treat his employees, all five, five of him.\n\n84\n00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:05.160\nHe was a little teeny guy.\n\n85\n00:04:05.160 --> 00:04:09.000\nYou know, I understand that you actually took the lead and designed your own\n\n86\n00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.440\nmajor in college.\n\n87\n00:04:10.440 --> 00:04:11.440\nTell us about that.\n\n88\n00:04:11.440 --> 00:04:15.640\nIt was actually my third college because my first college, I followed a\n\n89\n00:04:15.640 --> 00:04:16.400\nboyfriend and\n\n90\n00:04:16.400 --> 00:04:20.580\nthen the second college, I followed the boyfriend again, but then got a new\n\n91\n00:04:20.580 --> 00:04:21.400\nboyfriend.\n\n92\n00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:26.940\nThe third college was actually where my mother sat me down and basically said,\n\n93\n00:04:26.940 --> 00:04:27.280\nyou know,\n\n94\n00:04:27.280 --> 00:04:28.280\nwhat do you want to do?\n\n95\n00:04:28.280 --> 00:04:29.600\nAnd I said, I have no idea.\n\n96\n00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:31.880\nAnd she said, well, it's your birthday.\n\n97\n00:04:31.880 --> 00:04:35.080\nAnd I said, I'd love to go to the department store and play with makeup.\n\n98\n00:04:35.080 --> 00:04:38.280\nBecause I'm sure there's a college somewhere.\n\n99\n00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:39.800\nAnd just luck of the draw.\n\n100\n00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:43.280\nA friend of my dad told me about Emerson College in Boston.\n\n101\n00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:45.600\nAnd I flew up, looked at Emerson College.\n\n102\n00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:47.360\nThey did not have makeup.\n\n103\n00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.880\nThey had something called an interdisciplinary major, which I still don't know\n\n104\n00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:51.360\nwhat that\n\n105\n00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:52.360\nmeans.\n\n106\n00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:56.760\nBut basically it meant that I got to make up my own major.\n\n107\n00:04:56.760 --> 00:04:57.760\nI made up makeup.\n\n108\n00:04:57.760 --> 00:04:59.960\nI said, yes, I want to do theatrical makeup.\n\n109\n00:04:59.960 --> 00:05:02.120\nI want a minor in photography.\n\n110\n00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.200\nAnd I just made up all these rules.\n\n111\n00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:07.040\nAnd it kind of worked.\n\n112\n00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:09.040\nI guess so.\n\n113\n00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:12.680\nSo you start your career out as a makeup artist.\n\n114\n00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.160\nHow did the Bobby Brown brand come about?\n\n115\n00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:18.120\nWhen I graduated college, I had no clue what to do.\n\n116\n00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:22.680\nI had, you know, written a couple letters to people unanswered.\n\n117\n00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:25.680\nI moved to New York, didn't know a soul.\n\n118\n00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.360\nAnd I just was like, all right, what am I going to do?\n\n119\n00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:32.640\nAnd I took out the yellow pages and looked up models and modeling agencies.\n\n120\n00:05:32.640 --> 00:05:37.520\nAnd I started just networking and meeting people and asking a lot of questions.\n\n121\n00:05:37.520 --> 00:05:42.280\nAnd I finally, after probably about six months, I got hired to do a magazine\n\n122\n00:05:42.280 --> 00:05:42.880\nshoot.\n\n123\n00:05:42.880 --> 00:05:44.800\nAnd that's like a one day shoot.\n\n124\n00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.680\nAnd I got to do a magazine shoot on a dancer.\n\n125\n00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:49.120\nI met the photographer.\n\n126\n00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.120\nAnd you just start building relationships.\n\n127\n00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.960\nAnd probably the next job was weeks or months away.\n\n128\n00:05:55.960 --> 00:05:59.520\nBut I stuck with it and I pounded the pavement.\n\n129\n00:05:59.520 --> 00:06:02.940\nAnd it, you know, it took a while to be able to pay my rent.\n\n130\n00:06:02.940 --> 00:06:05.800\nMy dad actually gave me a gift for a year.\n\n131\n00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:08.880\nHe paid my rent because I wouldn't have made it otherwise.\n\n132\n00:06:08.880 --> 00:06:11.440\nAnd eventually I started working.\n\n133\n00:06:11.440 --> 00:06:16.480\nIt took me seven years to reach my goal, which was to get a Vogue cover.\n\n134\n00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:21.920\nI got a cover of Vogue magazine, which was a big, big deal, you know, in my\n\n135\n00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:22.840\ncareer.\n\n136\n00:06:22.840 --> 00:06:27.200\nAnd I didn't even have a thought about having a makeup line.\n\n137\n00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:31.490\nAnd one day I met a chemist at a shoot and I told him that I hated lipsticks on\n\n138\n00:06:31.490 --> 00:06:32.680\nthe market.\n\n139\n00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.680\nAnd I wanted to make one that had these qualities.\n\n140\n00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:37.600\nAnd he said, I can make them for you.\n\n141\n00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.520\nAnd that's how I got the idea to have a brand.\n\n142\n00:06:40.520 --> 00:06:43.680\nAs I understand it, you really bucked the trend and makeup back then.\n\n143\n00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:44.680\nHow so?\n\n144\n00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:47.840\nWell, makeup in the '80s was very artificial.\n\n145\n00:06:47.840 --> 00:06:53.620\nAnd women were putting on these pink foundations and painting in these sculpted\n\n146\n00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:55.120\ncheeks and contouring\n\n147\n00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:56.440\ntheir faces.\n\n148\n00:06:56.440 --> 00:06:59.840\nThere was yellows and greens and blue and bright color.\n\n149\n00:06:59.840 --> 00:07:05.080\nAnd I came to New York and I just wasn't talented enough to sculpt a face that\n\n150\n00:07:05.080 --> 00:07:05.680\nway.\n\n151\n00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.800\nPlus, I thought everyone looked terrible.\n\n152\n00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:13.010\nAnd I started doing makeup the way I thought they looked better, which was\n\n153\n00:07:13.010 --> 00:07:13.880\nactually makeup\n\n154\n00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:17.560\nthat was the color of the skin, blush that was the color of your cheeks.\n\n155\n00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.360\nAnd all these different things that didn't exist.\n\n156\n00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.720\nSo I didn't realize I was changing the industry.\n\n157\n00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:30.800\nI was just making people look in my eyes better.\n\n158\n00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:32.320\nWhat was the biggest obstacle, Bobby?\n\n159\n00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:34.800\nYou had to overcome to get your business off the ground.\n\n160\n00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.120\nYou hook up with this chemist, you get the product.\n\n161\n00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:38.840\nNow, how'd you get it going?\n\n162\n00:07:38.840 --> 00:07:43.040\nWell, the hardest part really at the time was I had just had a baby.\n\n163\n00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:45.000\nI was in the suburbs of New Jersey.\n\n164\n00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:46.600\nI was commuting.\n\n165\n00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:48.120\nMy husband was in law school.\n\n166\n00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.120\nThe real estate market crashed.\n\n167\n00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.560\nSo his real estate business kind of shrunk down.\n\n168\n00:07:54.560 --> 00:08:00.060\nHe went back to law school and I was commuting by bus and coming home to take\n\n169\n00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:00.880\ncare of my\n\n170\n00:08:00.880 --> 00:08:01.880\nkid at night.\n\n171\n00:08:01.880 --> 00:08:04.000\nAnd it was insane.\n\n172\n00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:09.560\nAnd I was selling these lipsticks to my friends, to models, to editors.\n\n173\n00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:11.600\nNow they call them influencers.\n\n174\n00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:14.680\nBut at the time, they were just people I knew.\n\n175\n00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:17.360\nAnd I was selling them out of my house.\n\n176\n00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:20.280\nAnd I went from one lipstick to 10.\n\n177\n00:08:20.280 --> 00:08:23.400\nI never thought I was building a company.\n\n178\n00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:25.320\nI never thought I was building a brand.\n\n179\n00:08:25.320 --> 00:08:28.260\nI was just selling these cool lipsticks that I thought were better than\n\n180\n00:08:28.260 --> 00:08:28.880\nanything on the\n\n181\n00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:30.240\nmarket.\n\n182\n00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:35.210\nAnd then one day I was at a party and met this really nice lady, lived in\n\n183\n00:08:35.210 --> 00:08:36.360\nManhattan.\n\n184\n00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:37.720\nI asked her what she did.\n\n185\n00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.400\nAnd lo and behold, she said, \"I'm a cosmetics buyer at Burgdorff.\n\n186\n00:08:41.400 --> 00:08:42.400\nI couldn't.\n\n187\n00:08:42.400 --> 00:08:45.640\nI had never shopped at Burgdorff because I couldn't afford it.\n\n188\n00:08:45.640 --> 00:08:50.480\nBut I told her about this range and she said, \"Oh, we should take it.\"\n\n189\n00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:55.290\nAnd that's kind of how I went from selling it out of my kitchen to, which I did\n\n190\n00:08:55.290 --> 00:08:55.720\nfor a\n\n191\n00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:59.720\nyear and a half, by the way, now they call it a side hustle.\n\n192\n00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.040\nAnd I ended up launching Burgdorff Goodman.\n\n193\n00:09:03.040 --> 00:09:04.400\nWhen did you know you had a winner?\n\n194\n00:09:04.400 --> 00:09:06.400\nI mean, you got the distribution there.\n\n195\n00:09:06.400 --> 00:09:08.960\nWhen did you know, \"Hey, look, I've really got something here.\"\n\n196\n00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:13.280\nWell, I always knew because I knew it was better than anything I saw.\n\n197\n00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:16.400\nI knew now it's called, you know, you have potential.\n\n198\n00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:18.080\nBut I knew people liked it.\n\n199\n00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.160\nI showed it to them.\n\n200\n00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:22.000\nI saw their reaction.\n\n201\n00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:23.080\nThey tried it on.\n\n202\n00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:25.200\nI knew I had a winner.\n\n203\n00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:29.520\nAnd when we projected that we would sell 100 lipsticks the first month at Burg\n\n204\n00:09:29.520 --> 00:09:30.040\ndorff,\n\n205\n00:09:30.040 --> 00:09:32.240\nI didn't know what a projection was, but I've been.\n\n206\n00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.880\nAnd we sold 100 the first day.\n\n207\n00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:38.480\nAnd people started writing about it in magazines.\n\n208\n00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:40.920\nYes, they were my friends, the editors.\n\n209\n00:09:40.920 --> 00:09:42.520\nAnd it kind of spread.\n\n210\n00:09:42.520 --> 00:09:47.560\nAnd people started telling their friends and it just became a thing.\n\n211\n00:09:47.560 --> 00:09:51.080\nWhat's the most important advice you can give people about what it takes to be\n\n212\n00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:52.120\nan entrepreneur?\n\n213\n00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.600\nOh my God, you have to be upbeat.\n\n214\n00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:59.200\nYou can't be one of these, like, woe is me people.\n\n215\n00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:04.500\nYou have to be someone who, you know, sees the glass full, even if it's kind of\n\n216\n00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:04.960\nhalf\n\n217\n00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:09.960\nempty and you just have to be someone that figures it out and doesn't get kind\n\n218\n00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:10.480\nof stuck\n\n219\n00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:13.520\nin the threads when things aren't going well.\n\n220\n00:10:13.520 --> 00:10:16.200\nYou know, entrepreneurs know a way out of any situation.\n\n221\n00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:17.560\nAll right, that didn't work.\n\n222\n00:10:17.560 --> 00:10:18.560\nLet me try that.\n\n223\n00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:23.000\nYou know, Bobby, I was surprised to learn that just after four years, you know,\n\n224\n00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:23.280\nyou\n\n225\n00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:27.790\nstart this company up, then asked a lot of swoops and they see a really good\n\n226\n00:10:27.790 --> 00:10:28.480\nthing when\n\n227\n00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.840\nthey see you and they buy your company.\n\n228\n00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:36.450\nWhat was your thought process at the time in terms of why you would move into\n\n229\n00:10:36.450 --> 00:10:37.520\nsuch a corporate\n\n230\n00:10:37.520 --> 00:10:38.520\nworld?\n\n231\n00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:40.400\nWell, we were not for sale.\n\n232\n00:10:40.400 --> 00:10:42.560\nWe had business partners.\n\n233\n00:10:42.560 --> 00:10:47.040\nMy husband and I in this other couple and it was not a very easy relationship.\n\n234\n00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:51.600\nWe're friendly with them now, but it was a little tough for a while.\n\n235\n00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:53.680\nAnd I had had my second son.\n\n236\n00:10:53.680 --> 00:10:58.390\nI was still working as a makeup artist and trying to be the mom and trying to\n\n237\n00:10:58.390 --> 00:10:58.920\ndo all\n\n238\n00:10:58.920 --> 00:10:59.920\nthat.\n\n239\n00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:00.920\nAnd we weren't for sale.\n\n240\n00:11:00.920 --> 00:11:05.040\nThere were two other companies, a Japanese company, a French company that we\n\n241\n00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:05.640\nhad so many\n\n242\n00:11:05.640 --> 00:11:06.640\nmeetings with.\n\n243\n00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:09.160\nAnd then we got a call from Leonard Lauder.\n\n244\n00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:10.960\nAnd it was like, okay.\n\n245\n00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:17.080\nAnd basically when he said to me, you remind me of my mother.\n\n246\n00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:19.000\nYou've been beating us in the stores.\n\n247\n00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.720\nSo I think the best thing is that we buy you.\n\n248\n00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:25.240\nAnd you know, Leonard, we're not for sale.\n\n249\n00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:28.920\nAnd he said, what if I told you that you can have complete autonomy?\n\n250\n00:11:28.920 --> 00:11:33.240\nI didn't know what autonomy was, but he did give it to me.\n\n251\n00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.620\nAnd you could do what's important to you, which is the creative, the vision,\n\n252\n00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:38.120\nand you\n\n253\n00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:40.560\ncould be a mom and a wife.\n\n254\n00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:42.760\nAnd I just thought that was a really good deal.\n\n255\n00:11:42.760 --> 00:11:44.320\nSo we sold it.\n\n256\n00:11:44.320 --> 00:11:46.720\nWhat was it you learned from Leonard Lauder?\n\n257\n00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:48.760\nHe's a legend.\n\n258\n00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:49.760\nHe is a legend.\n\n259\n00:11:49.760 --> 00:11:54.740\nWhat I learned from him, probably the best thing is he would just say to me,\n\n260\n00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:55.400\ndon't ever\n\n261\n00:11:55.400 --> 00:11:58.440\nask for permission, beg for forgiveness.\n\n262\n00:11:58.440 --> 00:11:59.680\nAnd I did.\n\n263\n00:11:59.680 --> 00:12:02.800\nAnd trust me, it wasn't always popular.\n\n264\n00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:06.330\nAnd when I needed something or wanted something, I would just call him where\n\n265\n00:12:06.330 --> 00:12:06.920\neveryone else is\n\n266\n00:12:06.920 --> 00:12:08.320\ngoing through all the layers.\n\n267\n00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.800\nAnd you know, he was really good to me.\n\n268\n00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:13.400\nBob, you're obviously you're a creative genius.\n\n269\n00:12:13.400 --> 00:12:17.860\nYou know, what should leaders know about the creative psyche and how to get the\n\n270\n00:12:17.860 --> 00:12:18.440\nmost out\n\n271\n00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:20.520\nof a creative talent?\n\n272\n00:12:20.520 --> 00:12:24.500\nThat is such a great question because I cannot tell you how many people I\n\n273\n00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:25.360\nworked with that\n\n274\n00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:27.560\ndid not understand me.\n\n275\n00:12:27.560 --> 00:12:32.380\nAnd the few people who are now my mentors and dear friends would always say, oh\n\n276\n00:12:32.380 --> 00:12:32.880\nmy God,\n\n277\n00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:36.740\nif I only had someone like you, what we could have done together, because we're\n\n278\n00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:37.200\nnot like\n\n279\n00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:38.200\neveryone else.\n\n280\n00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:39.200\nI'm not traditional.\n\n281\n00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:42.160\nYes, I could put on a suit and go to a meeting.\n\n282\n00:12:42.160 --> 00:12:44.800\nBut you know, like if you're going to talk about things that don't matter, I'm\n\n283\n00:12:44.800 --> 00:12:45.160\ngoing to\n\n284\n00:12:45.160 --> 00:12:47.760\nbe bored and just come up with an idea.\n\n285\n00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:52.360\nYou just have to understand that we entrepreneurs are creative beings.\n\n286\n00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:58.840\nWe need people who are business minded and help us figure out how to get things\n\n287\n00:12:58.840 --> 00:12:59.800\ndone.\n\n288\n00:12:59.800 --> 00:13:03.950\nAnd you know, if you are a creative entrepreneur, but have a business sense,\n\n289\n00:13:03.950 --> 00:13:05.080\nwhich I do, I see\n\n290\n00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:06.400\nopportunity.\n\n291\n00:13:06.400 --> 00:13:09.550\nI'm not just, you know, like, you know, someone that walks around with stars in\n\n292\n00:13:09.550 --> 00:13:10.800\nmy eyes.\n\n293\n00:13:10.800 --> 00:13:13.880\nSo having a partner is everything to me.\n\n294\n00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:16.560\nA lot of people aren't creative, Bobbie.\n\n295\n00:13:16.560 --> 00:13:20.160\nI mean, how do you be creative?\n\n296\n00:13:20.160 --> 00:13:22.760\nI don't think you could just say, I want to be creative.\n\n297\n00:13:22.760 --> 00:13:25.520\nIt's like me saying I want to paint and dance.\n\n298\n00:13:25.520 --> 00:13:28.160\nLike that's not going to happen, you know?\n\n299\n00:13:28.160 --> 00:13:34.280\nSo I think it's, I believe in life we all have these gifts or superpowers.\n\n300\n00:13:34.280 --> 00:13:39.440\nI didn't know what my gift was when I was young and I felt that I wasn't smart.\n\n301\n00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:42.680\nI certainly didn't care about math and science.\n\n302\n00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:46.940\nI certainly didn't care about, you know, spreadsheets and all these different\n\n303\n00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:47.600\nthings.\n\n304\n00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:52.260\nBut my gift has always been to be able to look at something and think how they\n\n305\n00:13:52.260 --> 00:13:52.640\ncould\n\n306\n00:13:52.640 --> 00:13:57.320\nbe better and how to make it better and how to make it for less money and then\n\n307\n00:13:57.320 --> 00:13:57.720\nhow to\n\n308\n00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:02.120\ntell people about it and how to know if they actually like it.\n\n309\n00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:04.600\nThat's a gift that I didn't know I had.\n\n310\n00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:07.940\nSo you don't really think you can train people to look for answers that aren't\n\n311\n00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:08.600\nnecessarily\n\n312\n00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:09.600\nthat evident.\n\n313\n00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:10.920\nYou think that's a gift?\n\n314\n00:14:10.920 --> 00:14:11.920\nI do.\n\n315\n00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:12.920\nI do.\n\n316\n00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:13.920\nI think it's really hard.\n\n317\n00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:14.920\nAnd guess what?\n\n318\n00:14:14.920 --> 00:14:17.040\nEveryone is meant to be an entrepreneur.\n\n319\n00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:20.940\nAnd there's a lot of creative people, by the way, that can't get themselves,\n\n320\n00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:21.800\nyou know,\n\n321\n00:14:21.800 --> 00:14:22.800\nout of a box.\n\n322\n00:14:22.800 --> 00:14:26.100\nThey have these amazing ideas, but they're going in circles.\n\n323\n00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:30.500\nJust like there's a lot of brilliant women that I, you know, different times in\n\n324\n00:14:30.500 --> 00:14:31.120\nmy business\n\n325\n00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:34.560\nthat I hired that graduated from the top schools.\n\n326\n00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:38.600\nAnd honestly, by the time they were done analyzing what I wanted to do, I didn\n\n327\n00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:38.920\n't want\n\n328\n00:14:38.920 --> 00:14:40.640\nto do it anymore.\n\n329\n00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:47.710\nSo it's, you go from this startup entrepreneur, really small company, you get\n\n330\n00:14:47.710 --> 00:14:48.840\nacquired by\n\n331\n00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:51.080\nthis huge company.\n\n332\n00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:54.760\nWhat was it like for you when you first made that shift?\n\n333\n00:14:54.760 --> 00:14:58.200\nWhen you moved inside, and I know Leonard gave you a free reign, but it was a\n\n334\n00:14:58.200 --> 00:14:58.800\ndifferent\n\n335\n00:14:58.800 --> 00:14:59.800\nanimal, right?\n\n336\n00:14:59.800 --> 00:15:00.800\nOh my God.\n\n337\n00:15:00.800 --> 00:15:05.000\nFirst of all, you know, there was so many positives and so many negatives.\n\n338\n00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.460\nFirst of all, I was a deer and I had like, I was 34 years old, had two kids was\n\n339\n00:15:09.460 --> 00:15:10.200\ncommuting\n\n340\n00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.050\nin, probably didn't sleep the night before, because my kids had chickenpox or\n\n341\n00:15:14.050 --> 00:15:14.680\nwhatever\n\n342\n00:15:14.680 --> 00:15:15.680\nit is.\n\n343\n00:15:15.680 --> 00:15:17.040\nI had to stop at school.\n\n344\n00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:18.880\nI had to go to a shoot at night.\n\n345\n00:15:18.880 --> 00:15:22.800\nAnd I would come to these corporate meetings and, you know, sit behind these\n\n346\n00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:23.480\ntables with\n\n347\n00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:26.080\npeople that I didn't know.\n\n348\n00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.640\nYou know, I think about Papa Sam.\n\n349\n00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:29.120\nI look up and I'd be Papa.\n\n350\n00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:30.120\nLook at me.\n\n351\n00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.280\nI'm sitting at this, you know, board meeting.\n\n352\n00:15:32.280 --> 00:15:33.760\nWhat is going on here?\n\n353\n00:15:33.760 --> 00:15:34.760\nAnd you know what?\n\n354\n00:15:34.760 --> 00:15:35.760\nPeople were kind to me.\n\n355\n00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:39.480\nAnd it was, you know, a small family in the beginning.\n\n356\n00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.520\nAnd I was able, I felt comfortable enough to say what I didn't know.\n\n357\n00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:48.440\nI didn't have to pretend I knew what they were talking about in the beginning.\n\n358\n00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:49.440\nAnd I learned a lot.\n\n359\n00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:55.480\nI really, it was on the job training, but the perks of having, you know, a\n\n360\n00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:56.920\ncorporate company\n\n361\n00:15:56.920 --> 00:15:59.680\nlike this that thought I was the greatest.\n\n362\n00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:02.080\nI mean, Leonard thought I was the greatest thing.\n\n363\n00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:06.350\nAnd you know, I got to go to all his amazing parties that he had and dinners\n\n364\n00:16:06.350 --> 00:16:06.880\nand that\n\n365\n00:16:06.880 --> 00:16:10.870\nall these great people and, you know, it was amazing and opened my eyes to a\n\n366\n00:16:10.870 --> 00:16:11.280\nwhole\n\n367\n00:16:11.280 --> 00:16:12.800\nmother world.\n\n368\n00:16:12.800 --> 00:16:15.760\nHow many people did you have working for you at Estolotter?\n\n369\n00:16:15.760 --> 00:16:18.280\nAnd what was your approach to managing them?\n\n370\n00:16:18.280 --> 00:16:21.560\nWhen we first sold the company, I mean, there was a handful.\n\n371\n00:16:21.560 --> 00:16:24.280\nI mean, I don't think there was 10.\n\n372\n00:16:24.280 --> 00:16:29.380\nAnd there was, you know, my partner at the time who I think only stayed under a\n\n373\n00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:29.800\nyear\n\n374\n00:16:29.800 --> 00:16:32.640\nfrom when they bought us.\n\n375\n00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:34.720\nI stayed for 22 years.\n\n376\n00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.840\nSo there was a lot of different, you know, things that happened in 22 years,\n\n377\n00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:41.480\nincluding,\n\n378\n00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:42.960\nyou know, a third child.\n\n379\n00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:49.970\nBut, you know, the company grew and we had, you know, more people that came in\n\n380\n00:16:49.970 --> 00:16:50.640\nthat did\n\n381\n00:16:50.640 --> 00:16:55.280\ndifferent jobs and we, you know, expanded distribution.\n\n382\n00:16:55.280 --> 00:16:59.480\nAnd my role was clear, but fuzzy.\n\n383\n00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.640\nAnd you know, the business role was more clear.\n\n384\n00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:07.120\nAnd it was magic for a lot of years.\n\n385\n00:17:07.120 --> 00:17:11.640\nWhat kind of culture did you try to create with the teams that you worked with?\n\n386\n00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:17.620\nI always tried to create a culture of openness, you know, kind of against\n\n387\n00:17:17.620 --> 00:17:19.080\neverything I saw\n\n388\n00:17:19.080 --> 00:17:21.960\nin corporations and big companies.\n\n389\n00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:23.560\nWe moved downtown.\n\n390\n00:17:23.560 --> 00:17:28.600\nI talked everybody into letting me get a place in Soho because going up to the\n\n391\n00:17:28.600 --> 00:17:29.240\nGM building,\n\n392\n00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:32.520\nI would have to change my clothes to go up there.\n\n393\n00:17:32.520 --> 00:17:34.280\nAnd that's like crazy.\n\n394\n00:17:34.280 --> 00:17:36.200\nSo I moved to Soho.\n\n395\n00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:41.080\nI actually, you know, handpicked my president at the time.\n\n396\n00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:42.960\nAnd we completely changed the culture.\n\n397\n00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.720\nWe made it a culture of people wearing jeans.\n\n398\n00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:51.060\nWe brought a manicurist in that everybody was welcome to everyone paid for\n\n399\n00:17:51.060 --> 00:17:52.320\ntheir own.\n\n400\n00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:58.160\nAnd you know, it was a much, much different than a corporate environment.\n\n401\n00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:59.160\nAnd the company grew.\n\n402\n00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.030\nOne of the reasons why I know you grew is you got a lot of press and well-des\n\n403\n00:18:04.030 --> 00:18:04.760\nerved press.\n\n404\n00:18:04.760 --> 00:18:09.720\nAnd you had a huge relationship as a regular on the Today Show.\n\n405\n00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:11.520\nHow did that come about?\n\n406\n00:18:11.520 --> 00:18:13.880\nAnd what did you learn from that experience?\n\n407\n00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:19.160\nWell, it was not a strategic play, but it sure should have been because it just\n\n408\n00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:20.040\nhappened.\n\n409\n00:18:20.040 --> 00:18:24.690\nI was at a book signing in Florida on this really adorable, you know, 80-\n\n410\n00:18:24.690 --> 00:18:25.840\nsomething-year-old\n\n411\n00:18:25.840 --> 00:18:28.240\nwoman told me how much she liked me.\n\n412\n00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:29.720\nAnd she said, \"I've seen you on the Today Show.\n\n413\n00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:31.080\nI had been on once.\"\n\n414\n00:18:31.080 --> 00:18:34.360\nAnd she said, \"Is there anything else you would want to accomplish in your\n\n415\n00:18:34.360 --> 00:18:34.960\ncareer?\n\n416\n00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.680\nI had just done my first book.\"\n\n417\n00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.520\nI said, \"Yeah, I'd like to be a regular on the Today Show.\"\n\n418\n00:18:39.520 --> 00:18:42.400\nAnd she said, \"Honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson.\n\n419\n00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:44.920\nWho is the executive producer of the Today Show?\"\n\n420\n00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:45.920\nShe called Jeff.\n\n421\n00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.120\nI got on the show on Monday.\n\n422\n00:18:48.120 --> 00:18:49.760\nAnd he came down and he said, \"What do you want?\"\n\n423\n00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:53.760\nI said, \"Can I have a monthly segment?\"\n\n424\n00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:56.520\nAnd the next month he came down and said, \"What do you want?\"\n\n425\n00:18:56.520 --> 00:18:59.720\nAnd I said, \"Can I be called a beauty editor?\"\n\n426\n00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:03.890\nAnd he's like, \"All right, we've never had one of those, but it just sounded\n\n427\n00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:04.400\ngood to\n\n428\n00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:05.400\nme.\"\n\n429\n00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.080\nYou know, there was a news editor.\n\n430\n00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:09.200\nI'm like, \"All right, I want to be the beauty editor.\"\n\n431\n00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.840\nAnd he never came down a third month, so I never asked him for money.\n\n432\n00:19:12.840 --> 00:19:18.550\nBut I stayed on that show for 14 years once a month where I literally taught\n\n433\n00:19:18.550 --> 00:19:19.600\npeople about\n\n434\n00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:20.600\nmakeup.\n\n435\n00:19:20.600 --> 00:19:22.040\nI never pushed my line.\n\n436\n00:19:22.040 --> 00:19:26.200\nI never talked about a product, a new drop, nothing.\n\n437\n00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:32.830\nAnd I became known for my expertise and a persona that was a little separate\n\n438\n00:19:32.830 --> 00:19:33.440\nfrom the\n\n439\n00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:34.440\ncompany.\n\n440\n00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:40.010\nSo you taught people about makeup and I understand you also did a masterclass\n\n441\n00:19:40.010 --> 00:19:42.320\non how to do makeup.\n\n442\n00:19:42.320 --> 00:19:44.480\nWhat do you think really makes a good teacher?\n\n443\n00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:46.040\nWhat makes you a good teacher?\n\n444\n00:19:46.040 --> 00:19:49.680\nI think I'm a good teacher because I understand what people go through.\n\n445\n00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:51.320\nI understand women.\n\n446\n00:19:51.320 --> 00:19:52.880\nI know what they have trouble with.\n\n447\n00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.320\nI know what they feel insecure about.\n\n448\n00:19:57.320 --> 00:20:02.360\nAnd I just, I don't know, I think I'm just a kind person by nature.\n\n449\n00:20:02.360 --> 00:20:07.940\nSo especially if I see someone struggling, I am very happy to show them how\n\n450\n00:20:07.940 --> 00:20:08.720\nsimple it\n\n451\n00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:09.720\nis.\n\n452\n00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:13.630\nAnd I've had so many experiences as a makeup artist and a teacher for people\n\n453\n00:20:13.630 --> 00:20:14.440\nthat have been\n\n454\n00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.720\nthrough some horrific things in their life.\n\n455\n00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.960\nAnd it just makes me, I think, a kinder teacher.\n\n456\n00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:27.080\nSo what kind of process do you go through, Bobby, to prepare yourself to teach?\n\n457\n00:20:27.080 --> 00:20:28.160\nHow do you get organized?\n\n458\n00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.280\nHow do you clarify what you really want to communicate?\n\n459\n00:20:31.280 --> 00:20:34.920\nI don't really spend a lot of the time in anything I do organizing.\n\n460\n00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.200\nIt's kind of all in my head.\n\n461\n00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.680\nAnd you know, I've written nine books, by the way.\n\n462\n00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.760\nAnd all of those books are visual ideas that I have.\n\n463\n00:20:43.760 --> 00:20:47.950\nAnd I usually have a writer and everyone wants to do like some kind of an\n\n464\n00:20:47.950 --> 00:20:48.760\noutline.\n\n465\n00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:54.040\nAnd I'm like, okay, I'm not writing this book before I photograph it.\n\n466\n00:20:54.040 --> 00:20:58.840\nAnd I just, I honestly, David, I just do things different than other people.\n\n467\n00:20:58.840 --> 00:21:01.360\nAnd it's so much easier for me.\n\n468\n00:21:01.360 --> 00:21:05.950\nAnd the trick for me and my success is so much based on having people around me\n\n469\n00:21:05.950 --> 00:21:06.360\nthat\n\n470\n00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:11.320\nunderstand me and be open to doing something a new way.\n\n471\n00:21:11.320 --> 00:21:15.000\nYou know, so you stay on an SLR for 22 years.\n\n472\n00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.440\nCan you tell us a story about the watershed moment that made you decide it was\n\n473\n00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:18.720\ntime to\n\n474\n00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.720\nleave?\n\n475\n00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:21.080\nWell, there was so many.\n\n476\n00:21:21.080 --> 00:21:26.400\nI mean, there was honestly for a couple of years, I just kept complaining to my\n\n477\n00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:27.720\nhusband,\n\n478\n00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:32.510\nto my friends, to my aunt, Alice, but I'm such a naive, positive person that I\n\n479\n00:21:32.510 --> 00:21:33.200\nthought,\n\n480\n00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:34.800\nall right, I could fix this.\n\n481\n00:21:34.800 --> 00:21:38.600\nIf they only allow me to hire this, if they only allow me to do this.\n\n482\n00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:43.800\nOkay, if we can only do this and it kind of never happened.\n\n483\n00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:49.570\nAnd one day I was talking to my aunt, Alice, and she said, my aunt, Alice is 89\n\n484\n00:21:49.570 --> 00:21:50.120\nyears\n\n485\n00:21:50.120 --> 00:21:54.730\nold and the most sensible person in the universe, Papa Sam's daughter, by the\n\n486\n00:21:54.730 --> 00:21:55.000\nway.\n\n487\n00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.800\nAnd she said, you know what, it's time.\n\n488\n00:21:57.800 --> 00:21:58.800\nIt's time.\n\n489\n00:21:58.800 --> 00:22:03.290\nI all every time we talk, all I hear you talk about is what's wrong and how you\n\n490\n00:22:03.290 --> 00:22:03.760\n're, how\n\n491\n00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:05.200\nyou're going to fix it.\n\n492\n00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:06.520\nYou can't fix it.\n\n493\n00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:08.960\nAnd then I'm like, you know what, you're right.\n\n494\n00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:14.160\nAnd it kind of happened at a moment, it was not planned out.\n\n495\n00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.760\nIt was a conversation.\n\n496\n00:22:15.760 --> 00:22:17.080\nIt went like that.\n\n497\n00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:20.440\nAnd I literally walked away.\n\n498\n00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.560\nWhat tips would you have for others to figure out when it's time to move on?\n\n499\n00:22:24.560 --> 00:22:30.900\nYeah, well, you know, every situation is different and you just have to always\n\n500\n00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:31.480\nthink\n\n501\n00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:36.640\nabout how happy or how unhappy you are and what is the ROI?\n\n502\n00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.920\nLike what is, you know, are you making a difference?\n\n503\n00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:43.010\nYou're making so much money that it's worth you staying for a while to finish\n\n504\n00:22:43.010 --> 00:22:43.640\npaying for\n\n505\n00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:45.040\nyour kids college.\n\n506\n00:22:45.040 --> 00:22:49.390\nIs it so miserable that you don't care and you'll get a weight, you know, a\n\n507\n00:22:49.390 --> 00:22:51.160\nwaiting job,\n\n508\n00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:52.240\nyou know, to pay your rent?\n\n509\n00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.840\nI mean, everyone has different situations and you don't know.\n\n510\n00:22:55.840 --> 00:23:01.760\nAnd what I, what I do know now is all the fear of, oh my God, what if I leave?\n\n511\n00:23:01.760 --> 00:23:06.770\nAnd when you do leave, the relief that comes over you from all the problems\n\n512\n00:23:06.770 --> 00:23:07.360\nthat can't be\n\n513\n00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:11.840\nfixed is amazing, which I'm sure you could relate to.\n\n514\n00:23:11.840 --> 00:23:16.430\nYou've, you know, run big companies and then you change jobs or directions and\n\n515\n00:23:16.430 --> 00:23:16.720\nall the\n\n516\n00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:18.600\nthings that, you know, kept you up at night.\n\n517\n00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:21.400\nYou're like, not my problem anymore.\n\n518\n00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:22.920\nOh, no.\n\n519\n00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.480\nBut, but thank God I had the experience.\n\n520\n00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:33.200\nAnd when I left Bobby Brown cosmetics, I was 59.9 years old without knowing\n\n521\n00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:33.800\nanything that\n\n522\n00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:34.800\nI was going to do.\n\n523\n00:23:34.800 --> 00:23:38.800\nI walked away and it was like, I thought I was done.\n\n524\n00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:40.920\nI thought people weren't going to care about me.\n\n525\n00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.520\nI thought people weren't going to ask me, you know, any questions anymore.\n\n526\n00:23:45.520 --> 00:23:47.520\nAnd it became the opposite.\n\n527\n00:23:47.520 --> 00:23:51.240\nYou know, so how'd you pick yourself up and get started again?\n\n528\n00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:55.080\nWell, I didn't really fall down, which maybe I should have.\n\n529\n00:23:55.080 --> 00:23:59.870\nI came home and I called my best friends that luckily for me live next door to\n\n530\n00:23:59.870 --> 00:24:00.360\nme.\n\n531\n00:24:00.360 --> 00:24:02.720\nThey moved next door, which was great.\n\n532\n00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.480\nThey brought over a bottle of tequila.\n\n533\n00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:07.840\nWe talked the next day they came over again.\n\n534\n00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:08.840\nWe did it.\n\n535\n00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:13.820\nAnd the third day I started making phone calls to make lunch plans with people,\n\n536\n00:24:13.820 --> 00:24:14.960\npeople that\n\n537\n00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:16.920\nI haven't seen in a while.\n\n538\n00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.480\nAnd one of the two early calls was to a guy named Richard Baker, who at the\n\n539\n00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:22.240\ntime owned\n\n540\n00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:25.800\nLord and Taylor, he was trying to figure out how to save it.\n\n541\n00:24:25.800 --> 00:24:28.900\nAnd he said, all right, we have this real estate in the middle of the of the\n\n542\n00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:29.560\nFifth Avenue\n\n543\n00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:30.720\nstore.\n\n544\n00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.760\nI need to bring some excitement.\n\n545\n00:24:32.760 --> 00:24:37.310\nWhat if we give you that space and you turn it into the your own shop shop\n\n546\n00:24:37.310 --> 00:24:38.400\nwithin a shop?\n\n547\n00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.680\nAnd I'm like, what am I going to put in that shop?\n\n548\n00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:42.080\nHe's like, anything you want.\n\n549\n00:24:42.080 --> 00:24:46.280\nI said, all right, what if we call it just Bobby?\n\n550\n00:24:46.280 --> 00:24:51.060\nAnd what if I curate like cool clothes and sneakers and I did it and I put a\n\n551\n00:24:51.060 --> 00:24:52.600\nteam together.\n\n552\n00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:56.760\nAnd honestly, it was a week or so after I left the brand.\n\n553\n00:24:56.760 --> 00:25:01.720\nSo you start just Bobby, a week after you leave the brand, you start up\n\n554\n00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:03.160\nevolution 18,\n\n555\n00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:07.780\nyou write a book, Beauty from the Inside Out, you know, my God, where do all\n\n556\n00:25:07.780 --> 00:25:08.760\nthese ideas\n\n557\n00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:09.760\ncome from?\n\n558\n00:25:09.760 --> 00:25:14.390\nYou say, and you did just body a week after you quit, you know, do you sleep at\n\n559\n00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:14.800\nnight\n\n560\n00:25:14.800 --> 00:25:16.240\nor what do you know?\n\n561\n00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:17.240\nYou know what?\n\n562\n00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.760\nI, I'm asleep by 10, 10, 30.\n\n563\n00:25:19.760 --> 00:25:23.630\nAnd I don't start working till at least 10 in the morning because I need to\n\n564\n00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:24.200\nexercise\n\n565\n00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:25.200\nin the morning.\n\n566\n00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:32.400\nMy lifestyle is honestly what kind of leads me to, you know, my work style.\n\n567\n00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:37.610\nAnd by the way, you hire the team and you work with the team and we discuss\n\n568\n00:25:37.610 --> 00:25:38.960\nthings and\n\n569\n00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.840\nthat's how things get done.\n\n570\n00:25:40.840 --> 00:25:46.550\nAnd I love like working with young, interesting, energetic, optimistic kids\n\n571\n00:25:46.550 --> 00:25:47.720\nbecause so many\n\n572\n00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:51.730\npeople have been burned so much in the workforce that sometimes you hire\n\n573\n00:25:51.730 --> 00:25:52.720\nsomeone who has a\n\n574\n00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:53.720\nlot of knowledge.\n\n575\n00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:57.000\nBut they're just now, now, now that's not going to work.\n\n576\n00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.440\nThat's not going to work.\n\n577\n00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:01.360\nI like people that say, wow, that's so interesting.\n\n578\n00:26:01.360 --> 00:26:02.360\nLet's try it.\n\n579\n00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:04.160\nTell us about evolution 18.\n\n580\n00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:08.240\nWell, evolution 18, which is a wellness brand.\n\n581\n00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.240\nI did not, again, I did not set to create a wellness brand.\n\n582\n00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:16.600\nI had my ninth book, Beauty from the Inside Out to promote when I left the\n\n583\n00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:17.280\nbrand.\n\n584\n00:26:17.280 --> 00:26:19.360\nI actually wrote it while I was still at the brand.\n\n585\n00:26:19.360 --> 00:26:26.040\nIt came out April after I left the brand, which was also my 60th birthday.\n\n586\n00:26:26.040 --> 00:26:30.750\nSo I had a book to promote and I did it so differently than all the other\n\n587\n00:26:30.750 --> 00:26:31.760\nthings I did\n\n588\n00:26:31.760 --> 00:26:33.800\nwhen I was part of the corporation.\n\n589\n00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:38.160\nI literally took Ubers to the different stations.\n\n590\n00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.000\nI wore sneakers and not high heels.\n\n591\n00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.240\nI did not bring a hairdresser.\n\n592\n00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:45.120\nI got a blowout at dry bar.\n\n593\n00:26:45.120 --> 00:26:46.600\nI did my makeup in the car.\n\n594\n00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:47.720\nAnd you know what?\n\n595\n00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:54.960\nIt was such a less stressful, easier way and more comfortable for me.\n\n596\n00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.640\nSo that was great.\n\n597\n00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:01.070\nAnd then while I was promoting that, QVC actually called me and said, what\n\n598\n00:27:01.070 --> 00:27:01.440\nwould you\n\n599\n00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:02.440\nlike to do?\n\n600\n00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.480\nWe'd like to do something with you.\n\n601\n00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.440\nAnd we discussed this vitamin wellness brand.\n\n602\n00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:15.340\nAnd I had a vitamin manufacturer and I sat down and thought about some products\n\n603\n00:27:15.340 --> 00:27:16.520\nthat I\n\n604\n00:27:16.520 --> 00:27:19.640\nwere not out there that I thought would help people.\n\n605\n00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:24.630\nI also went back to school and I got my degree as a health coach, you know, a\n\n606\n00:27:24.630 --> 00:27:26.040\ndigital school.\n\n607\n00:27:26.040 --> 00:27:33.040\nSo I got to do that at home.\n\n608\n00:27:33.040 --> 00:27:37.000\nSo you go from this beauty guru to now you're a wellness guru.\n\n609\n00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.800\nYou just talked about how you started the platform here.\n\n610\n00:27:39.800 --> 00:27:44.080\nWhen you look at beauty and wellness, which platform gives you the most joy?\n\n611\n00:27:44.080 --> 00:27:45.440\nWell, it's really funny.\n\n612\n00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:50.340\nI see them together and that look, there's nothing I like better than being a\n\n613\n00:27:50.340 --> 00:27:51.440\nmakeup artist.\n\n614\n00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.440\nThere's nothing I like better than making makeup.\n\n615\n00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.520\nBut I also am obsessed with health and wellness.\n\n616\n00:27:57.520 --> 00:28:01.800\nAnd certainly, you know, the effects it has on your skin, on your hair.\n\n617\n00:28:01.800 --> 00:28:07.130\nSo combining it all, which I think is the most modern thing, is really what exc\n\n618\n00:28:07.130 --> 00:28:07.560\nites\n\n619\n00:28:07.560 --> 00:28:08.720\nme the most.\n\n620\n00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:10.720\nYou've had so much success, Bobby.\n\n621\n00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:14.750\nWhat else about what you would consider your biggest failure and what you\n\n622\n00:28:14.750 --> 00:28:15.320\nlearned from\n\n623\n00:28:15.320 --> 00:28:16.320\nit?\n\n624\n00:28:16.320 --> 00:28:17.760\nWell, you know, there's been many.\n\n625\n00:28:17.760 --> 00:28:22.810\nThere's been a lot of, you know, people that I hired that I thought were my\n\n626\n00:28:22.810 --> 00:28:24.120\nguys trustworthy\n\n627\n00:28:24.120 --> 00:28:25.360\nand they weren't.\n\n628\n00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:29.360\nYou know, there was a big divide often with people that worked for me that were\n\n629\n00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:29.880\nalso,\n\n630\n00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.720\nyou know, had a worked with the corporation.\n\n631\n00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:37.520\nSo, you know, mostly disappointed in people.\n\n632\n00:28:37.520 --> 00:28:41.040\nYou know, yes, I made the decisions to hire a lot of them.\n\n633\n00:28:41.040 --> 00:28:43.960\nBut, you know, that was something I had to get over.\n\n634\n00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:50.440\nAnd, you know, I'm someone that looks at things that don't work out.\n\n635\n00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:53.040\nAnd I think, okay, that didn't work out.\n\n636\n00:28:53.040 --> 00:28:54.040\nWhy?\n\n637\n00:28:54.040 --> 00:28:55.520\nWhat did I learn from it?\n\n638\n00:28:55.520 --> 00:28:58.080\nAnd okay, let me do something else.\n\n639\n00:28:58.080 --> 00:28:59.440\nAnd there's lots of them.\n\n640\n00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.280\nThere's products that were brought out.\n\n641\n00:29:01.280 --> 00:29:05.480\nThere's, you know, there's companies that I started that are not there.\n\n642\n00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.520\nI mean, I had an eyeglass brand for a couple of years.\n\n643\n00:29:08.520 --> 00:29:14.680\nAnd when retail started to go down, it started to go down and the eyeglass\n\n644\n00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:15.880\nmanufacturer\n\n645\n00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.520\ndidn't know how to shift online.\n\n646\n00:29:18.520 --> 00:29:19.600\nSo it didn't work.\n\n647\n00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:25.040\nYou really focus on helping women get comfortable with who they are.\n\n648\n00:29:25.040 --> 00:29:27.200\nTell us the origin of that passion, Bobby.\n\n649\n00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:31.960\nWell, I think, you know, growing up, I used to watch my absolutely stunning,\n\n650\n00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:32.560\ngorgeous\n\n651\n00:29:32.560 --> 00:29:36.160\nparents and I always wanted to look like them.\n\n652\n00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:42.000\nTheir friends were, you know, like so gorgeous, you know, in the 70s.\n\n653\n00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.120\nAnd I just never felt that I was pretty enough.\n\n654\n00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:51.690\nI never felt I was as attractive as my, you know, my tall blonde cheerleader\n\n655\n00:29:51.690 --> 00:29:52.840\nfriends.\n\n656\n00:29:52.840 --> 00:29:58.050\nAnd what changed my life is when I went to see the movie Love Story and I saw\n\n657\n00:29:58.050 --> 00:29:59.040\nAlly McGraw\n\n658\n00:29:59.040 --> 00:30:04.730\nand I saw a natural, dark haired, hardly any makeup, not fancy girl who I\n\n659\n00:30:04.730 --> 00:30:05.400\nthought was\n\n660\n00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:09.200\nso beautiful, who kind of looked like me a little bit.\n\n661\n00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:14.000\nAnd that's when I realized there's more than one way to be beautiful.\n\n662\n00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.520\nAnd that really helped me realize I could be beautiful my own way.\n\n663\n00:30:18.520 --> 00:30:22.910\nI don't have to look like, you know, the models or Barbie or, you know, people\n\n664\n00:30:22.910 --> 00:30:23.560\nthat I don't\n\n665\n00:30:23.560 --> 00:30:24.560\nlook like.\n\n666\n00:30:24.560 --> 00:30:28.400\nYou know, authenticity is such a buzzword in leadership today.\n\n667\n00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:30.000\nYou built a business on it.\n\n668\n00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:34.470\nI just, to me, it's like a joke when they say, yeah, the trend is authenticity\n\n669\n00:30:34.470 --> 00:30:35.880\nand transparency.\n\n670\n00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:40.080\nIt's like, wait a minute, isn't that how we're all supposed to be?\n\n671\n00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:42.080\nAnd that's the way I was raised.\n\n672\n00:30:42.080 --> 00:30:45.500\nAnd I, you know, look, I am the person that if you ask me a question, I will\n\n673\n00:30:45.500 --> 00:30:46.000\ntell you\n\n674\n00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.000\nthe truth.\n\n675\n00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:49.640\nI don't always think about how the words come out.\n\n676\n00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:54.750\nSo sometimes it might be a little stinging, I try to be nice, but I have a\n\n677\n00:30:54.750 --> 00:30:55.640\nwicked sense\n\n678\n00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:58.920\nof humor and I am very quick.\n\n679\n00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.560\nSo sometimes I don't think before I speak.\n\n680\n00:31:02.560 --> 00:31:04.680\nThat is a quality.\n\n681\n00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:10.270\nIncorporately, I always got in trouble and I, you know, I tried to get better\n\n682\n00:31:10.270 --> 00:31:10.720\nat.\n\n683\n00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.530\nYou really seem to have a lot of fun doing stuff that you don't know a lot\n\n684\n00:31:14.530 --> 00:31:15.160\nabout.\n\n685\n00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:17.320\nYou've been to different things.\n\n686\n00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:21.720\nAnd how do you give yourself the confidence to get out of your comfort zone?\n\n687\n00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.290\nWell, I don't, again, I might, probably the best trait I have that I can't\n\n688\n00:31:26.290 --> 00:31:27.200\nteach anyone\n\n689\n00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:29.760\nis I'm so friggin naive.\n\n690\n00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:33.880\nLike, I just don't think something's not going to work out.\n\n691\n00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:36.760\nI just think, oh, that sounds so interesting.\n\n692\n00:31:36.760 --> 00:31:38.000\nLet me try it.\n\n693\n00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.400\nYou know, I got a call one day from Marissa Meyer at Yahoo.\n\n694\n00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.170\nAnd she said, we want to build a digital beauty magazine and we want you to be\n\n695\n00:31:47.170 --> 00:31:47.920\nthe editor\n\n696\n00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:49.200\nin chief.\n\n697\n00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.880\nI was still a Bobby Brown cosmetics.\n\n698\n00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.440\nAnd I was like, what?\n\n699\n00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:54.440\nOkay.\n\n700\n00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:55.440\nInteresting.\n\n701\n00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.920\nI don't know how to type.\n\n702\n00:31:57.920 --> 00:31:59.480\nOkay.\n\n703\n00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:03.680\nNow I've got to go, you know, get permission from Estee Lauder.\n\n704\n00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:04.680\nAnd I did it.\n\n705\n00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:08.960\nAnd I was like, I didn't know what I was doing, but I got to hire people around\n\n706\n00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:09.360\nme that did\n\n707\n00:32:09.360 --> 00:32:11.000\nknow.\n\n708\n00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:12.160\nAnd I did it.\n\n709\n00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:13.440\nAnd I did it for two years.\n\n710\n00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.760\nAnd it was the most incredible experience.\n\n711\n00:32:16.760 --> 00:32:19.480\nAnd I love doing things I don't know how to do.\n\n712\n00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:22.480\nI think it's interesting.\n\n713\n00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:23.480\nYou've conducted.\n\n714\n00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:30.360\nI understand what you call confidence interviews with women that you admire.\n\n715\n00:32:30.360 --> 00:32:31.760\nWho would be some of those women?\n\n716\n00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:34.000\nAnd what have you learned by doing this?\n\n717\n00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.640\nWell, there's certainly so many.\n\n718\n00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:40.200\nI mean, I'm so lucky that I get to meet all these incredible women.\n\n719\n00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:44.730\nSo I mean, the first one that popped in my head is a woman named Joanna Cole,\n\n720\n00:32:44.730 --> 00:32:45.240\nwho was\n\n721\n00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:49.160\nthe editor in chief of Harper's Bazaar.\n\n722\n00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:53.240\nThen she was like the chief content officer at Hearst.\n\n723\n00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:55.800\nAnd she was just the cool.\n\n724\n00:32:55.800 --> 00:33:01.060\nShe still is the coolest, most confident, like funny person, you know, married\n\n725\n00:33:01.060 --> 00:33:02.600\nwith kids,\n\n726\n00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:04.160\nyou know, wicked sense of humor.\n\n727\n00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:05.880\nAnd I built this friendship.\n\n728\n00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.760\nAnd I always, okay, Joanna, who are you saying?\n\n729\n00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:12.480\nWell, kind of doctor, what are you eating?\n\n730\n00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:13.480\nWhat are you doing?\n\n731\n00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:14.480\nHow do you manage this?\n\n732\n00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.280\nAnd I've built these friendships with these women.\n\n733\n00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:21.540\nAnd I love sharing their stories with the general public, which is one of the\n\n734\n00:33:21.540 --> 00:33:22.040\nthings\n\n735\n00:33:22.040 --> 00:33:27.400\nI do with justbobby.com is have these people as my experts.\n\n736\n00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:32.610\nAnd it's a reason I have a podcast because I do think that we all learn a lot\n\n737\n00:33:32.610 --> 00:33:33.480\nby listening\n\n738\n00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:34.800\nto people's stories.\n\n739\n00:33:34.800 --> 00:33:40.120\nAnd by the way, I think women need to lift other women up.\n\n740\n00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:43.120\nBobby, what's it like to work with Bobby Brown?\n\n741\n00:33:43.120 --> 00:33:45.640\nWell, you're asking the wrong person.\n\n742\n00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.520\nYou can ask my husband and my kids, they would tell you one thing.\n\n743\n00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:54.210\nAnd if you ask, you know, Tara, who started as my executive assistant, and now\n\n744\n00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:54.440\nshe is\n\n745\n00:33:54.440 --> 00:34:00.600\nbasically the, you know, runs all of my brands, she has a very thick skin.\n\n746\n00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:05.200\nWe, you know, I could whine to her and be myself, I could tell her everything.\n\n747\n00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:11.740\nAnd she says, once you are in the fold and understand how this, you know,\n\n748\n00:34:11.740 --> 00:34:12.960\ninteresting,\n\n749\n00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:19.600\ncrazy, nice, you know, impatient woman is, it's like magic happens.\n\n750\n00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:24.880\nSo, you know, I can guarantee you out of all the hundreds of people that worked\n\n751\n00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:25.280\nwith\n\n752\n00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:29.350\nme, you know, when I was part of the corporation, there was plenty of people\n\n753\n00:34:29.350 --> 00:34:30.560\nthat didn't understand\n\n754\n00:34:30.560 --> 00:34:34.960\nme or my style and would not be saying the most lovely things.\n\n755\n00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.600\nAnd there's other people that would say it was a dream.\n\n756\n00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:41.440\nYou obviously have a lot of self reflection.\n\n757\n00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.480\nYou're very self aware.\n\n758\n00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.840\nHow do you go about coaching yourself, Bobby?\n\n759\n00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:51.960\nWell, I need to calm myself down more and that's something I'm working on.\n\n760\n00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:55.610\nYou know, I wake up and especially now during the pandemic and you know, you\n\n761\n00:34:55.610 --> 00:34:56.200\nwake up and\n\n762\n00:34:56.200 --> 00:35:02.140\nyou're like, you know, you open an eye and you're like, okay, here we are and\n\n763\n00:35:02.140 --> 00:35:02.640\nhave my\n\n764\n00:35:02.640 --> 00:35:03.640\ncoffee.\n\n765\n00:35:03.640 --> 00:35:07.380\nI read the newspaper and then it's like, and you know, if I have any kind of\n\n766\n00:35:07.380 --> 00:35:08.000\nlike little\n\n767\n00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:13.980\nbit of like, you know, low, low moment, I just say enough, I wipe, you know,\n\n768\n00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:15.640\nturn myself\n\n769\n00:35:15.640 --> 00:35:17.480\npositive and get out.\n\n770\n00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:22.440\nI exercise first thing in the morning every day and that helps me get the cobwe\n\n771\n00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:22.960\nbs out\n\n772\n00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:26.840\nof my head and it helps me kind of set the tone for the day.\n\n773\n00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:28.560\nAnd I also bring my phone with me.\n\n774\n00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:32.430\nIf I'm not listening to podcasts, I just pick up the phone and call someone I\n\n775\n00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:33.160\nneed to talk\n\n776\n00:35:33.160 --> 00:35:37.440\nto or someone I haven't talked to in a while and it just helps me process\n\n777\n00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:38.200\nthings.\n\n778\n00:35:38.200 --> 00:35:41.980\nHow have you gone about embracing social media and how do you think leaders\n\n779\n00:35:41.980 --> 00:35:42.680\ntoday should\n\n780\n00:35:42.680 --> 00:35:43.840\nthink about it?\n\n781\n00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:49.200\nWell, unfortunately, I've embraced it so much that, you know, my husband has\n\n782\n00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:50.040\nset a rule\n\n783\n00:35:50.040 --> 00:35:56.040\nthat I can't be on my device when we are driving, but even though I can't help\n\n784\n00:35:56.040 --> 00:35:56.640\nit, it's like\n\n785\n00:35:56.640 --> 00:35:57.640\nan itch.\n\n786\n00:35:57.640 --> 00:35:58.640\nI can't scratch.\n\n787\n00:35:58.640 --> 00:35:59.640\nI still do it.\n\n788\n00:35:59.640 --> 00:36:02.200\nI have always loved social media.\n\n789\n00:36:02.200 --> 00:36:03.400\nI use it.\n\n790\n00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:05.640\nI use it instead of Google.\n\n791\n00:36:05.640 --> 00:36:08.800\nIf I want to learn something, I will search it.\n\n792\n00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:10.800\nI use it certainly to communicate.\n\n793\n00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:13.640\nI use it to reach out to people.\n\n794\n00:36:13.640 --> 00:36:18.200\nI have an Instagram live TV series that I do.\n\n795\n00:36:18.200 --> 00:36:23.110\nAnd I find it the most incredible thing because you get instant answers and\n\n796\n00:36:23.110 --> 00:36:24.520\ninstant results.\n\n797\n00:36:24.520 --> 00:36:28.120\nYou know, I think there's a lot of negativity on it and I think that has to\n\n798\n00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:28.800\nchange, but\n\n799\n00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.040\nI think the positivity outweighs it.\n\n800\n00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:33.880\nYou give all kinds of speeches to women executives.\n\n801\n00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:38.370\nI know you did one at my former company, Young Brands, and I remember people r\n\n802\n00:36:38.370 --> 00:36:39.080\naving about\n\n803\n00:36:39.080 --> 00:36:40.080\nit.\n\n804\n00:36:40.080 --> 00:36:45.360\nAnd I know you just had to talk with JP Morgan Chase, executives.\n\n805\n00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:50.000\nWhat would be the three most important bits of advice you offer up?\n\n806\n00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:51.440\nFirst of all, be yourself.\n\n807\n00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.440\nBe yourself.\n\n808\n00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:58.280\nKnow yourself because a lot of times we think we have to act a certain way and\n\n809\n00:36:58.280 --> 00:36:59.200\nbe a certain\n\n810\n00:36:59.200 --> 00:37:01.800\nway to be successful.\n\n811\n00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:05.080\nAnd I don't think it's the right way.\n\n812\n00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:06.600\nSo be yourself.\n\n813\n00:37:06.600 --> 00:37:08.040\nKnow yourself.\n\n814\n00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:14.440\nAnd don't ever forget about how you feel and how people feel.\n\n815\n00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:15.880\nAnd take care of your health.\n\n816\n00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:17.560\nSo be yourself.\n\n817\n00:37:17.560 --> 00:37:18.920\nTake care of your health.\n\n818\n00:37:18.920 --> 00:37:20.280\nCare about other people.\n\n819\n00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.840\nAnd the third thing is don't be afraid.\n\n820\n00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:24.520\nYou know, what's the worst that happens?\n\n821\n00:37:24.520 --> 00:37:25.520\nIt doesn't work out.\n\n822\n00:37:25.520 --> 00:37:28.280\nBobby, this has been a crazy time we're living in.\n\n823\n00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:33.640\nHow has Corona virus impacted your business and you personally?\n\n824\n00:37:33.640 --> 00:37:38.170\nWell, it's been very interesting because, you know, when it first happened, we\n\n825\n00:37:38.170 --> 00:37:38.520\nhad no\n\n826\n00:37:38.520 --> 00:37:43.280\nidea and everybody, you know, dispersed and everything was sensitive.\n\n827\n00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.800\nYou know, what do we put on social media?\n\n828\n00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:50.880\nHow could we be selling these supplements during this really tough time?\n\n829\n00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:55.960\nAnd then, you know, when things calmed down, we realized now is the time people\n\n830\n00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:56.480\nneed to\n\n831\n00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:57.620\nfeel better.\n\n832\n00:37:57.620 --> 00:37:59.440\nPeople need the positivity.\n\n833\n00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.560\nI think they, you know, they look to me for that.\n\n834\n00:38:02.560 --> 00:38:07.320\nAnd so our business, you know, our direct to consumer was 30% down, which I\n\n835\n00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:08.280\nthought wasn't\n\n836\n00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.280\nbad.\n\n837\n00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:14.560\nWalmart actually was down because the stores were closed, but it's back up.\n\n838\n00:38:14.560 --> 00:38:18.450\nAnd you know, we opened up more doors and now our direct to consumer is booming\n\n839\n00:38:18.450 --> 00:38:18.960\nbecause\n\n840\n00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:23.630\nour products are a good price point and they help people with simple ways to be\n\n841\n00:38:23.630 --> 00:38:24.680\nhealthier.\n\n842\n00:38:24.680 --> 00:38:27.960\nAnd I think that's what people want at home.\n\n843\n00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.000\nHow can I, how can I be better?\n\n844\n00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:31.640\nHow can I feel better?\n\n845\n00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:37.040\nIt took three months for me to get a peloton, you know, it's like, and I\n\n846\n00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:38.480\nfinally got one.\n\n847\n00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:41.360\nSo we're in this for the long haul.\n\n848\n00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:43.920\nIt's not, we're not out of this tomorrow.\n\n849\n00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:44.920\nYeah.\n\n850\n00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:49.590\nWhat do you see happening to the American psyche that will be different because\n\n851\n00:38:49.590 --> 00:38:51.120\nof coronavirus?\n\n852\n00:38:51.120 --> 00:38:57.450\nWell, I think that a lot of it has reset people how they think and how they\n\n853\n00:38:57.450 --> 00:38:57.920\nfeel.\n\n854\n00:38:57.920 --> 00:39:03.400\nAnd I think it made everyone just pause and realize how, you know, lucky we are\n\n855\n00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:03.840\nto have\n\n856\n00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:08.920\nour health, how lucky we are to be with loved ones that we wouldn't have this\n\n857\n00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:09.880\nopportunity\n\n858\n00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:11.400\notherwise.\n\n859\n00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:16.060\nAnd I do think that even after there's a vaccine and after the virus somehow\n\n860\n00:39:16.060 --> 00:39:17.080\nmagically goes\n\n861\n00:39:17.080 --> 00:39:20.080\naway or whatever, I think people are different.\n\n862\n00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:23.800\nI think people don't want, they want like simpler things.\n\n863\n00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:27.400\nPeople are still going to be wearing sneakers more than high heels.\n\n864\n00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:32.080\nI think women are going to be having simple hairdos, not spending hours and\n\n865\n00:39:32.080 --> 00:39:32.920\nhours, you\n\n866\n00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:35.280\nknow, doing all these things they did.\n\n867\n00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:40.440\nI think, and I hope it's going to make people care about other people more.\n\n868\n00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:46.160\nWe've all seen so much racial injustice this year and the impact of that.\n\n869\n00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:50.040\nHow do you think about diversity and inclusion going forward?\n\n870\n00:39:50.040 --> 00:39:55.850\nWell, I've always been someone that, you know, has had friends from many\n\n871\n00:39:55.850 --> 00:39:57.520\ndifferent backgrounds.\n\n872\n00:39:57.520 --> 00:40:01.930\nI grew up with, you know, people from different backgrounds, the town we live\n\n873\n00:40:01.930 --> 00:40:02.840\nis completely\n\n874\n00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:08.520\nmixed both, you know, socio economical and racial.\n\n875\n00:40:08.520 --> 00:40:14.800\nAnd I've always been so open that when this all happened, for me, it was such a\n\n876\n00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:15.440\nshock\n\n877\n00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:20.040\nbecause I didn't realize the extent of what people were going through.\n\n878\n00:40:20.040 --> 00:40:22.440\nSo yes, was I educated?\n\n879\n00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:27.290\nAnd am I still being educated and do I have these intense conversations with my\n\n880\n00:40:27.290 --> 00:40:27.800\nfriends\n\n881\n00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:28.800\nof color?\n\n882\n00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:29.800\nYes.\n\n883\n00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:31.280\nAnd just I've learned so much.\n\n884\n00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:36.480\nAnd the one, you know, to be a mom and to have to worry not just about your kid\n\n885\n00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:37.080\n, God forbid\n\n886\n00:40:37.080 --> 00:40:40.810\ngetting into an accident in a car, but getting arrested and killed because of\n\n887\n00:40:40.810 --> 00:40:41.520\nthe color of\n\n888\n00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:42.720\ntheir skin.\n\n889\n00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:46.720\nThat was just the biggest like aha moment for me in this whole thing.\n\n890\n00:40:46.720 --> 00:40:54.750\nSo I think the conversation is open and I hope that, you know, especially like\n\n891\n00:40:54.750 --> 00:40:55.520\nthe black\n\n892\n00:40:55.520 --> 00:41:00.080\nfounders who I've been helping of these brands that have been having some\n\n893\n00:41:00.080 --> 00:41:01.040\ndifficulty with\n\n894\n00:41:01.040 --> 00:41:02.560\ntheir businesses.\n\n895\n00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:08.950\nI think now is the time that they should seize the opportunity and people are\n\n896\n00:41:08.950 --> 00:41:09.920\nready for more\n\n897\n00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:10.920\ndiversity.\n\n898\n00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:12.920\nWhat do you tell a black founder?\n\n899\n00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.760\nWhat do you tell them they should do?\n\n900\n00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:17.080\nDo exactly what they're doing.\n\n901\n00:41:17.080 --> 00:41:21.930\nThe same thing that I did as, you know, an entrepreneur founder and, you know,\n\n902\n00:41:21.930 --> 00:41:22.520\njust make\n\n903\n00:41:22.520 --> 00:41:28.290\nsure that you are servicing not just black women, make sure that you have\n\n904\n00:41:28.290 --> 00:41:29.520\ncolors for white\n\n905\n00:41:29.520 --> 00:41:30.520\nwomen too.\n\n906\n00:41:30.520 --> 00:41:36.880\nYou know, don't just be my suggestion is don't just be a brand for one part.\n\n907\n00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.880\nBe a brand for everybody.\n\n908\n00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:39.880\nAnd you know what?\n\n909\n00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:45.140\nYou get a rush, go slow, try not to take investments and seize every\n\n910\n00:41:45.140 --> 00:41:46.520\nopportunity you\n\n911\n00:41:46.520 --> 00:41:53.020\nhave to get known, to get your name out there, to make connections, you know,\n\n912\n00:41:53.020 --> 00:41:54.320\nand don't waste\n\n913\n00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:57.600\nand spend money, but just keep going for it.\n\n914\n00:41:57.600 --> 00:42:02.180\nAnd I actually reached out on Instagram to a couple of different companies and\n\n915\n00:42:02.180 --> 00:42:03.600\nI've become\n\n916\n00:42:03.600 --> 00:42:06.320\nmentors to these founders.\n\n917\n00:42:06.320 --> 00:42:12.100\nAnd you know, I shout them out from my social and I give them advice and, you\n\n918\n00:42:12.100 --> 00:42:13.080\nknow, I would\n\n919\n00:42:13.080 --> 00:42:15.120\nlike someone to do it to me too.\n\n920\n00:42:15.120 --> 00:42:16.120\nThat's great.\n\n921\n00:42:16.120 --> 00:42:19.220\nYou know, speaking of opportunity, I want to take this opportunity to have just\n\n922\n00:42:19.220 --> 00:42:19.560\na little\n\n923\n00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:21.920\nbit of fun before we wrap this up.\n\n924\n00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:24.840\nAnd I want to do a lightning round Q and A with you, Bobby.\n\n925\n00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:25.840\nOkay.\n\n926\n00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:28.240\nWhat three words best describe you?\n\n927\n00:42:28.240 --> 00:42:32.840\nShort, funny and unexpected.\n\n928\n00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:35.040\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n929\n00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:38.480\nPeople that don't tell the truth and aren't nice.\n\n930\n00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:41.000\nMost famous person you did make up for.\n\n931\n00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:42.960\nMichelle Obama.\n\n932\n00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:48.160\nIf you could be one person other than yourself for a day, who would it be and\n\n933\n00:42:48.160 --> 00:42:48.480\nwhy?\n\n934\n00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.120\nOh my God.\n\n935\n00:42:51.120 --> 00:42:54.200\nThat's a tough one.\n\n936\n00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:57.840\nI don't want to say Michelle Obama again because I'm such a huge fan of hers.\n\n937\n00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:01.680\nI would say probably my son Duke.\n\n938\n00:43:01.680 --> 00:43:02.680\nI don't know.\n\n939\n00:43:02.680 --> 00:43:04.000\nHe's so capable and talented.\n\n940\n00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:07.440\nI want to know what is going on in that brain of his.\n\n941\n00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.600\nWhat's something about you that few people would know?\n\n942\n00:43:10.600 --> 00:43:15.080\nWell, I danced on stage with Flo Rida and Salton Pepper.\n\n943\n00:43:15.080 --> 00:43:16.960\nThat's a good one.\n\n944\n00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:18.360\nDo you have a hidden talent?\n\n945\n00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:22.080\nI do not have a hidden talent, but I love to dance.\n\n946\n00:43:22.080 --> 00:43:26.850\nThere's nothing I like better than having a cocktail or two and have some like\n\n947\n00:43:26.850 --> 00:43:27.560\nhip hop.\n\n948\n00:43:27.560 --> 00:43:30.440\nI listen to hip hop music.\n\n949\n00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:32.640\nWho's the leader you admire most and why?\n\n950\n00:43:32.640 --> 00:43:35.440\nI've always been a fan of Richard Branson.\n\n951\n00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:41.720\nI just think that he is someone that has led his company in interesting ways.\n\n952\n00:43:41.720 --> 00:43:45.920\nAlso Mickey Drexler who used to be the CEO of J. Crew and the Gap.\n\n953\n00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:47.840\nHe's another one.\n\n954\n00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:50.720\nYou talked about partners earlier.\n\n955\n00:43:50.720 --> 00:43:53.560\nYou have an amazing business partner.\n\n956\n00:43:53.560 --> 00:43:58.000\nYour husband, Steven, who I had the opportunity to meet last week as well.\n\n957\n00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.000\nWhat's it like to work with your husband so closely and on the business side?\n\n958\n00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.600\nWhy do you guys gel as partners?\n\n959\n00:44:04.600 --> 00:44:07.000\nWell, first of all, I'm really lucky.\n\n960\n00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:08.000\nHe's brilliant.\n\n961\n00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:09.000\nHe's smart.\n\n962\n00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:10.000\nHe's strong.\n\n963\n00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:12.360\nIt is not always easy.\n\n964\n00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:18.910\nI get pushed back a lot and I've learned how not to make things a much bigger\n\n965\n00:44:18.910 --> 00:44:19.600\ndeal than\n\n966\n00:44:19.600 --> 00:44:20.680\nthey are.\n\n967\n00:44:20.680 --> 00:44:22.680\nHe's allowed to say that's stupid.\n\n968\n00:44:22.680 --> 00:44:24.120\nThat's a bad idea.\n\n969\n00:44:24.120 --> 00:44:26.560\nNo, I don't agree.\n\n970\n00:44:26.560 --> 00:44:32.000\nI just need to let him say it and I need to not pounce and have a fight about\n\n971\n00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:32.560\nit.\n\n972\n00:44:32.560 --> 00:44:38.770\nI think that's the most important thing I learned working with big corporate\n\n973\n00:44:38.770 --> 00:44:39.040\nmen is\n\n974\n00:44:39.040 --> 00:44:42.280\nwhen they say something.\n\n975\n00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:45.480\nAll you have to do is say that's a really good idea.\n\n976\n00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:52.080\nWell, I notice you have a strong mutual admiration for each other's talents.\n\n977\n00:44:52.080 --> 00:44:53.080\nYeah.\n\n978\n00:44:53.080 --> 00:44:54.080\nWell, we're very different.\n\n979\n00:44:54.080 --> 00:45:00.320\nHe's very creative, which he does share that.\n\n980\n00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.820\nI don't always agree with everything he says and he certainly doesn't always\n\n981\n00:45:03.820 --> 00:45:04.400\nagree with\n\n982\n00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:05.400\nme.\n\n983\n00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:10.200\nI am looking forward to prove him wrong on a few things.\n\n984\n00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:17.020\nBut honestly, I'm really lucky because it's been 32 years of love, mentorship,\n\n985\n00:45:17.020 --> 00:45:18.200\nfriendship,\n\n986\n00:45:18.200 --> 00:45:23.350\nand I just got lucky that he is really smart, really capable and he calms me\n\n987\n00:45:23.350 --> 00:45:24.040\ndown.\n\n988\n00:45:24.040 --> 00:45:27.520\nThat is a challenge, I'm sure.\n\n989\n00:45:27.520 --> 00:45:31.000\nYou also have three kids you talked about.\n\n990\n00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:36.920\nHow do you do so much and at least seemingly keep it all together?\n\n991\n00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:42.160\nWell, I usually have it together and when I don't have it together, it's okay.\n\n992\n00:45:42.160 --> 00:45:43.760\nLike there's days I don't feel good.\n\n993\n00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:45.760\nThere's days that I'm overwhelmed.\n\n994\n00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:47.840\nThere's days and it's okay.\n\n995\n00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:52.870\nOne thing about me is I know when to take it down a notch and learn to take a\n\n996\n00:45:52.870 --> 00:45:53.520\nlittle\n\n997\n00:45:53.520 --> 00:45:59.550\nbetter care of myself, it comes and goes and I also know everything is a moment\n\n998\n00:45:59.550 --> 00:45:59.840\n.\n\n999\n00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:02.800\nI do over schedule myself.\n\n1000\n00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.440\nIt's like, sure I could do that.\n\n1001\n00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:05.440\nSure, I could do that.\n\n1002\n00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.440\nAnd all of a sudden I'm going from one thing to the other.\n\n1003\n00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:09.800\nBut after this, I'm done.\n\n1004\n00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:14.270\nOh no, I have someone coming over for a cocktail, but that's not really worth\n\n1005\n00:46:14.270 --> 00:46:14.680\nit.\n\n1006\n00:46:14.680 --> 00:46:19.300\nWell, I want to take this moment, Bobby, to thank you very much for taking the\n\n1007\n00:46:19.300 --> 00:46:19.840\ntime in\n\n1008\n00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:25.650\nyour obviously very, very filled up life to share your insights with aspiring\n\n1009\n00:46:25.650 --> 00:46:26.320\nleaders\n\n1010\n00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:27.320\nout there.\n\n1011\n00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:28.760\nI mean, we all love to learn that.\n\n1012\n00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:32.090\nThat's why you like to do your podcast and that's why I like to do mine is so\n\n1013\n00:46:32.090 --> 00:46:32.680\nthat people\n\n1014\n00:46:32.680 --> 00:46:34.120\ncan learn from people like you.\n\n1015\n00:46:34.120 --> 00:46:35.840\nSo thank you very much for sharing.\n\n1016\n00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:36.840\nWell, my pleasure.\n\n1017\n00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.200\nWell, you know, I'm sure you've seen the movie, The Intern.\n\n1018\n00:46:39.200 --> 00:46:40.920\nOh, yeah, absolutely.\n\n1019\n00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:45.350\nSo if you ever get really bored, I'd like to offer you an internship at my home\n\n1020\n00:46:45.350 --> 00:46:45.560\n.\n\n1021\n00:46:45.560 --> 00:46:47.560\nI'm not kidding.\n\n1022\n00:46:47.560 --> 00:46:51.440\nI'll have to talk to you more about that.\n\n1023\n00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:52.440\nYeah.\n\n1024\n00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:53.440\nOkay, good.\n\n1025\n00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:54.440\nThere's a lot for me to learn.\n\n1026\n00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:55.440\nThank you so much.\n\n1027\n00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.440\nOkay.\n\n1028\n00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:57.440\nThank you.\n\n1029\n00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:58.440\nBest.\n\n1030\n00:46:58.440 --> 00:46:59.440\nBye bye.\n\n1031\n00:46:59.440 --> 00:47:09.320\nOne amazing person, Bobby is and what an amazing career she has had and\n\n1032\n00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:11.120\ncontinues to\n\n1033\n00:47:11.120 --> 00:47:12.120\nhave.\n\n1034\n00:47:12.120 --> 00:47:16.530\nAnd really through it all, she's so good at surrounding herself with the right\n\n1035\n00:47:16.530 --> 00:47:17.400\npeople.\n\n1036\n00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:22.680\nShe has a remarkable level of self awareness, what she's good at and what she's\n\n1037\n00:47:22.680 --> 00:47:23.000\nnot.\n\n1038\n00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:27.220\nAnd with that, she's able to spot great partners, people whose skills and\n\n1039\n00:47:27.220 --> 00:47:28.440\ntraits complement\n\n1040\n00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:29.440\nhers.\n\n1041\n00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.840\nAnd together, they accomplish so much more.\n\n1042\n00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:36.820\nGreat leaders know how to surround themselves with great partners, whose skills\n\n1043\n00:47:36.820 --> 00:47:37.360\nand gifts\n\n1044\n00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:39.720\ngo hand in hand with their own.\n\n1045\n00:47:39.720 --> 00:47:43.450\nAnd I bet you have someone in your life who's that kind of complimentary\n\n1046\n00:47:43.450 --> 00:47:44.720\npartner who balances\n\n1047\n00:47:44.720 --> 00:47:45.880\nyou out.\n\n1048\n00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.280\nMaybe it's your business partner, maybe it's your spouse, maybe it's your\n\n1049\n00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:50.980\nsecond in command.\n\n1050\n00:47:50.980 --> 00:47:55.440\nMaybe it's a colleague you just collaborate with really, really well.\n\n1051\n00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:59.810\nWell this week as part of your weekly personal development plan, I want you to\n\n1052\n00:47:59.810 --> 00:48:00.440\nsend them\n\n1053\n00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:02.080\na quick note.\n\n1054\n00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:05.240\nFirst tell them why you appreciate them so much.\n\n1055\n00:48:05.240 --> 00:48:10.920\nSecond ask them what do you wish I understood about you better and then say,\n\n1056\n00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:11.920\nhey, how do\n\n1057\n00:48:11.920 --> 00:48:18.210\nyou think we can even work better as a team using the unique skills and gifts\n\n1058\n00:48:18.210 --> 00:48:19.000\nwe have.\n\n1059\n00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:23.430\nOpen up that dialogue with those key partners in your life and I know you will\n\n1060\n00:48:23.430 --> 00:48:24.080\ngrow a ton\n\n1061\n00:48:24.080 --> 00:48:25.240\nfrom it.\n\n1062\n00:48:25.240 --> 00:48:27.240\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1063\n00:48:27.240 --> 00:48:31.220\nWhat we learned today is the great leaders surround themselves with the right\n\n1064\n00:48:31.220 --> 00:48:32.000\npartners.\n\n1065\n00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:36.280\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every\n\n1066\n00:48:36.280 --> 00:48:36.880\nThursday\n\n1067\n00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:40.830\nyou get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the\n\n1068\n00:48:40.830 --> 00:48:41.440\nworld.\n\n1069\n00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:45.640\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1070\n00:48:45.640 --> 00:48:46.320\napply to your\n\n1071\n00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:49.880\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1072\n00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:50.880\nThank you.\n\n1073\n00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:51.880\nThank you.\n\n1074\n00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:52.880\na lot of people.\n\n1075\n00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:53.880\na lot of people.\n\n1076\n00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:54.880\na lot of people.\n\n1077\n00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:55.880\na lot of people.\n\n1078\n00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:56.880\na lot of people.\n\n1079\n00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:57.880\na lot of people.\n\n1080\n00:48:57.880 --> 00:48:58.880\na lot of people.\n\n1081\n00:48:58.880 --> 00:48:59.880\na lot of people.\n\n1082\n00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:04.880\n[ Silence ]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple, you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Now, today's guest is Bobby Brown, the founder of Bobbi Brown cosmetics and CEO of beauty evolution. She is an absolute creative genius, not just in makeup in her whole life. When Bobby comes up against problems, she approaches them in the most wonderful and non traditional ways. And boy does it work. She basically reinvented makeup in the 80s. And then she built a billion dollar brand. And now she's leaving this successful wellness brand called Beauty evolution. And she's doing it all by the beat of her own drum. But hear this, she's not doing it alone. Along the way, she has found some incredible partners, people whose skill sets go hand in hand with her creativity, and they're accomplishing these big goals together. You know, as leaders, we all have unique gifts, but we need the right people alongside is to counterbalance those gifts, to fill in the gaps to see into our blind spots, and to help us do more than we ever could alone. Thanks to Bobby, you're about to learn that wonderful things happen when we surround ourselves with the right partners. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Bobby Brown.

Bobby, I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this conversation. Thanks for taking the time.

Bobbi Brown 1:47

Oh, it's my pleasure to talk to you. And it's also really interesting and fun that I got to meet you last week, socially over, you know, a nice cocktail. So I'm looking forward to this

David Novak 1:56

Bobby, every woman I've talked to that I've said, Boy, I'm going to I'm going to have a podcast with Bobby Brown, they go, you gotta be kidding me what? You know, they're so excited to hear the podcast. But what's it like to have a name that's synonymous with one of the great beauty brands in the world?

Bobbi Brown 2:13

Well, the great thing is I don't have a face that's that synonymous. So you know, I could walk around and not be bothered. But it's interesting to be able to drop a name and people know it was added for so long. I never realized you know, the scope of it until I left the company.

David Novak 2:30

I want to get to the brand itself. But first, I want to take you way back, can you tell us a story about yourself as a kid that will tell us a lot about the leader that you've become?

Bobbi Brown 2:42

I'm sure I mean, I had a pretty ordinary growing up in the suburbs of Chicago, the oldest of three kids with a mother and father who are 20 and 21 When I was born, and you know, pretty much I just was this normal kid and you know, watching my parents kind of grow up in front of me. And I think probably the most remarkable thing at the time was my relationship with my grandparents. You know, Nana and Papa who were probably in their 40s When I was born. And you know, which is now how old parents are today and how old I was for my third kid. But being with them aid gave me the security and comfort to be down to earth and myself. But I got to watch Papa Sam, do his business and honestly, everything I learned in business, I learned watching Papa Sam. Hey, what was his business Bobby Papa came over from Russia not knowing anyone. And you know, the story is that he you know, had a paper route as a young kid and then he had a woman's purse line. And then he ended up to be Cadillac, Sam well known for being the guy that would get you the Cadillac in Chicago. And I just watched him market. I watched him treat his customers treat his employees. You know, all five, five of him is a little little teeny guy. You know,

David Novak 4:05

I understand that you actually took the lead and designed your own major in college. Tell us about that. It was actually

Bobbi Brown 4:11

my third college because my first college I followed a boyfriend. And then the second college I followed the boyfriend again, but then got a new boyfriend. The third college was actually where my mother sat me down and basically said, you know, what do you want to do? And I said, I have no idea. And she said, Well, it's your birthday. And I said I'd love to go to the department store and play with makeup because I'm sure there's a college somewhere. And just luck of the draw. A friend of my dad's told me about Emerson College in Boston, and I flew up looked at Emerson College, they did not have makeup. They had something called an interdisciplinary major, which I still don't know what that means. But basically it meant that I got to make up my own major. I made up makeup I said yes, I want to do theatrical makeup. I won a minor in photography. And I just made up all these rules. And it kind of worked.

David Novak 5:06

I guess so you know. So you start your career out as a makeup artist? How did the Bobby Brown brand come about?

Bobbi Brown 5:14

So when I graduated college, I had no clue what to do. I had, you know, written a couple letters to people on answered, I moved to New York didn't know a soul. And I just was like, alright, what am I going to do? And I took out the yellow pages and looked up models and modeling agencies. And I started just networking and meeting people and asking a lot of questions. And I finally after probably about six months, I got hired to do a magazine shoot. And that's like a one day shoot, and I got to do a magazine shoot on a dancer, I met the photographer, and you just start building relationships. And probably the next job was weeks or months away. But I stuck with it, and I pounded the pavement. And you know, it took a while to be able to pay my rent, my dad actually gave me a gift for a year he paid my rent, because I would have made it otherwise. And eventually I started working. It took me seven years to reach my goal, which was to get a Vogue cover, I got to cover a Vogue magazine, which was a big, big deal, you know, in my career, and I didn't even have a thought about having a makeup line. And one day I met a chemist at a shoot. And I told him that I hated lipsticks on the market. And I wanted to make one that had these qualities. And they said I can make them for you. And that's how I got the idea to have a brand

David Novak 6:40

is I understand that you really bucked the trend and makeup back then how so? Well,

Bobbi Brown 6:44

makeup in the 80s was very artificial. And women were you know, putting on these pink foundations and painting in these sculpted cheeks and contouring their faces. There was you know, yellows and greens and blue and bright color. And I came to New York, and I just wasn't talented enough to sculpt a face that way. Plus, I thought everyone looked terrible. And I started doing makeup the way I thought they looked better, which was actually makeup that was the color of the skin blush that was the color of your cheeks, and all these different, you know, things that didn't exist. So I didn't realize I was changing the industry. I was just making people look in my eyes better.

David Novak 7:30

What was the biggest obstacle Bobby you had to overcome to get your business off the ground? You hook up with this chemists? You get the product now? How did you get it going?

Bobbi Brown 7:38

Well, well, the hardest part really at the time was I had just had a baby. I was in the suburbs of New Jersey, I was commuting. My husband was in law school, the real estate market, you know, crashed. So his real estate business, you know, kind of shrunk down. He went back to law school and I was commuting by bus and coming home to take care of my kid at night. And it was it was insane. And I was selling these lipsticks to my friends to models to editors Now they call them influencers. But at the time they were just people I knew. And you know, I was selling a lot of my house and I went from one lipstick to 10 I just I don't know, I never thought I was building a company. I never thought I was building a brand. I was just selling these cool lipsticks that I thought were better than anything on the market. And then one day I was at a party and met this really nice lady lived in Manhattan. I asked her what she did. And lo and behold, she said, I'm a cosmetics buyer at Bergdorf Goodman. I had never shopped at Bergdorf because I couldn't afford it. But I told her about this range. And she said oh, we should take it. And that's kind of how I went from selling it out of my kitchen to which I did for a year and a half. By the way. My Now they call it a side hustle. And I ended up launching Bergdorf Goodman.

David Novak 9:02

When did you know you had a winner? I mean, you got the distribution there. When did you know hey, look, I've really got something here.

Bobbi Brown 9:08

Well, I always knew because I knew it was better than anything I saw. I knew you know now it's called you know, you know your potential. But I knew people liked it. I showed it to them. I you know, I saw their reaction. They tried it on I knew I had a winner. And when we projected that we would sell 100 lipsticks the first month at Bergdorf I didn't know what a projection was back then. And we sold 100 The first day. And you know, people started writing about it in magazines. Yes, they were my friends, the editors, and it kind of spread and people started telling their friends and it just became a thing.

David Novak 9:46

What's the most important advice you can give people about what it takes to be an entrepreneur?

Bobbi Brown 9:52

Oh my God, you have to be upbeat. You can't be one of these like woe is me people. You have to be someone who you know, sees the glass full, even if it's kind of half empty. And you just have to be someone that figures it out and doesn't get kind of stuck in the threads when things aren't going well, you know, entrepreneurs no way out of any situation. Alright, that didn't work. Let me try that. Yo, Bobby,

David Novak 10:19

I was surprised to learn that just after four years, you know, you, you start this company up, then. So a lot of Swoops. And they see a really good thing when they see you and they buy your company. What was your thought process at the time in terms of why you would move into such a corporate world?

Bobbi Brown 10:38

Well, we were not for sale, we had business partners, my husband and I and this other couple. And it was not a very easy relationship. We're friendly with them now. But it was it was a little tough for a while. And I had had my second son, I was still working as a makeup artist, and trying to be the mom and trying to do all that. And we weren't for sale. There were two other companies, a Japanese company, a French company that we had so many meetings with. And then we got a call from Leonard Lauder. And it was like, okay, and basically, when he said to me, you remind me of my mother. i You've been beating us in the stores. So I think the best thing is that we buy you. And you know, Leonard, we're not for sale. And he said, What if I told you that you can have complete autonomy. I didn't know what autonomy was, but he did give it to me. And and you could do what's important to you, which is the creative, the vision, and you could be a mom and a wife. And I just thought that was a really good deal. So we sold it. What was that you

David Novak 11:44

learned from Leonard lotteries? A legend?

Bobbi Brown 11:47

He is a here's a legend, what I learned from him, the probably the best thing is he would just say to me, don't ever ask for permission, beg for forgiveness. And I did. And trust me, it wasn't always popular. And when I needed something or wanted something, I would just call him where everyone else is going through all the layers. And you know, he was really good to me,

David Novak 12:10

Bobby, you're obviously you're a creative genius, you know, what should leaders know about the creative psyche? And how to get the most out of your creative talent?

Bobbi Brown 12:20

That is such a great question. Because I cannot tell you how many people I worked with, that did not understand me. And the few you know, people who are now my mentors and dear friends would always say, oh my god, if I only had someone like you what we could have done together. Because we're not like everyone else. I'm not traditional, yes, I could put on a suit and go to a meeting. But you know, like, if you're going to talk about things that don't matter, I'm going to be bored and just come up with an idea. You just have to understand that we entrepreneurs are creative beings. We need people who are business minded and help us figure out how to get things done. And you know, if you are a creative entrepreneur, but have a business sense, which I do, I see opportunity. I'm not just you know, like, you know, someone that walks around with stars in my eyes. So having a partner is everything to me.

David Novak 13:13

A lot of people aren't creative, Bobby, I mean, and how do you be creative?

Bobbi Brown 13:20

I don't think you could just say I want to be creative. It's like me saying I want to paint and dance. Like, that's not gonna happen, you know. So I think it's, I believe in life, we all have these gifts, or superpowers. I didn't know what my gift was when I was young. And I felt that I wasn't smart. I certainly didn't care about math and science. I certainly didn't care about you know, spreadsheets and all these different things. But my gift has always been to be able to look at something and think how they could be better, and how to make it better and how to make it for less money. And then how to tell people about it and how to know if they actually like it. That's that's a gift that I didn't know I had.

David Novak 14:04

So you don't really think you can train people to look for answers that aren't necessarily that evident. You think that's a gift?

Bobbi Brown 14:10

I do. I do. I think it's really hard. And guess what, not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur. And there's a lot of creative people, by the way, that can't get themselves you know, out of a box. They have these amazing ideas, but they're going in circles. Just like there's a lot of brilliant women that I you know, different times in my business that I hired that graduated from the top schools. And honestly, by the time they were done analyzing what I wanted to do, I didn't want to do it anymore.

David Novak 14:41

So it's you go for this startup entrepreneur, a really small company, he get acquired by this huge company. What was it like for you when you first made that shift? And when you moved inside and I know later gave you a free rein but it was a different animal right.

Bobbi Brown 14:59

Oh my god. At first of all, you know, there was so many positives and so many negatives. First of all, I was a deer in a headlight, I was 34 years old, had two kids was commuting and probably didn't sleep the night before. Because my kids had chickenpox or whatever it is, I, I had to stop at school, I had to go to a shoot at night. And I would come to these corporate meetings and you know, sit behind these tables with people that I didn't know, you know, I think about Papa Sam, I'd look up and I'd be Papa, look at me, I'm sitting at this, you know, board meeting what is going on here. And you know, what people were kind to me, and it was, you know, a small family in the beginning. And I was able, I felt comfortable enough to say what I didn't know, I didn't have to pretend I knew what they were talking about in the beginning. And I learned a lot I really, it was on the job training, but the perks of having, you know, a corporate company like this, that that thought I was the greatest, I mean, let her thought I was the greatest thing. And, you know, I got to go to all his amazing parties that he had, and dinners and met all these great people. And, you know, it was amazing. It opened my eyes to a whole nother world.

David Novak 16:12

How many people did you have working for you at Estee Lauder? And what was your approach to managing them?

Bobbi Brown 16:18

When we first sold the company? I mean, there was a handful. I mean, I don't think there was 10. And there was, you know, my partner at the time, who I think only stayed under a year from when they bought us, I stayed for 22 years. So there was a lot of different, you know, things that happened in 22 years, including, you know, a third child, but, you know, the company grew and we had, you know, more people that that came in that did different jobs, and we, you know, expanded distribution, and my role was clear, but fuzzy. And, you know, the business role was more clear. And it was magic for a lot of years.

David Novak 17:06

What kind of culture did you try to create with the, with the teams that you worked with?

Bobbi Brown 17:11

I always tried to create a culture of openness, you know, kind of against everything I saw in corporations and big companies, we moved downtown, I talked everybody into letting me get a place in Soho, because going up to the jam building, I would have to change my clothes to go up there. And I'm, that's like crazy. So I moved to Soho. I actually, you know, handpicked my president at the time. And we completely changed the culture. We made it a culture of people wearing jeans, we brought a manicurist in that everybody was welcome to everyone paid for their own. And you know, it was a much, much different than a corporate environment. And the company grew.

David Novak 17:59

One of the reasons why I know you grew as you got a lot, a lot of press and well deserved press and you had a huge relationship as a regular on the Today Show. How did that come about? And what did you learn from that experience?

Bobbi Brown 18:13

Well, it was not a strategic play, but it sure should have been because it just happened. I was at a book signing in Florida and this really adorable, you know, 80 something year old woman told me how much she liked me. And she said, I've seen you on The Today Show. I had been on once. And she said, Is there anything else you would want to accomplish in your career? I just done my first book. I said, Yeah, I'd like to be a regular on the Today Show. And she said honey, Jeff Zucker is my grandson, who was the executive producer of The Today Show. She called Jeff, I got on the show on Monday. And he came down. He said, What do you want? I said, Can I have a week of a monthly segment? And And next month, he came down and said, What do you want? I said, Can I be called a beauty editor? And he's like, all right. We've never had one of those. But it just sounded, it sounded good to me. You know, there was a news editor. I'm like, Alright, I want to be the beauty editor. And he never came down to third month. So I never asked him for money. But I stayed on that show for 14 years, once a month, where I literally taught people about makeup. I never pushed my line. I never talked about a product a new drop nothing. And I became known for my expertise and a persona that was a little separate from the company.

David Novak 19:34

So you taught people about makeup and I understand you also did a masterclass on on on how to do makeup. What do you think really makes a good teacher what makes you a good teacher?

Bobbi Brown 19:45

I think I'm a good teacher because I understand what people go through. I understand women. I know what they have trouble with. I know what they you know what, what they feel insecure about. And I just, I don't know I think I'm just I'm a kind person by nature. So especially if I see someone struggling, I am very, you know, happy to show them how simple it is. And I've had so many experiences as a makeup artist and a teacher, for people that have been through some horrific things in their life. And, you know, it just makes me I think, a kinder teacher.

David Novak 20:21

So what kind of process? Do you go through Bobby to prepare yourself to teach? How do you get organized? How do you clarify what you really want to communicate?

Bobbi Brown 20:31

I don't really spend a lot of time in anything I do organizing, it's kind of all in my head. And you know, I've written nine books, by the way. And all of those books are visual ideas that I have. And I usually have a writer, and everyone wants to do like some kind of an outline. And I'm like, Okay, I'm not writing this book before I photograph it. And I just, I honestly, David, I just do things different than other people. And it's so much easier for me. And the trick for me, and my success is so much based on having people around me that understand me, and and be open to doing something a new way.

David Novak 21:11

You know, so you stay on and escalada for 22 years. Can you tell us a story about the watershed moment that made you decide it was time to leave?

Bobbi Brown 21:19

Well, there was so many I mean, there was honestly for a couple of years, I just kept complaining to my husband, to my friends to my aunt Dallas, but I'm such a naive, positive person that I thought alright, I could fix this. If they only allow me to hire this if they only allow me to do this, okay, if, if we can only do this, and it kind of never happened. And one day, I was talking to my Aunt Alice, and she said, My Aunt Alice is 89 years old, and the most sensible person in the universe, Papa Sam's daughter, by the way, and she said, You know what, it's time. It's time I Oh, every time we talk, all I hear you talk about is what's wrong, and how you're how you're going to fix it. You can't fix it. And then I'm like, You know what? You're right. And it kind of happened at a moment. It was not planned out. I was a conversation, it went like that, and I literally walked away.

David Novak 22:19

What tips would you have for others to figure out when it's time to move on?

Bobbi Brown 22:24

Yeah, well, you know, every situation is different. And you just have to always think about how happy or how unhappy you are? And what is the ROI like what is, you know, are you making so much money that it's worth you staying for awhile to finish paying for your kids college? Is it's so miserable, that you don't care? And you'll get away? You know, a waiting job, you know, to pay your rent. I mean, everyone has different situations, and you don't know, and what I what I do know now is all the fear of oh my god, what if I leave. And when you do leave, the relief that comes over you from all the problems that can't be fixed, is amazing, which I'm sure you could relate to. You've, you know, run big companies, and then you're you change jobs or directions, and all the things that you know, kept you up at night. You're like, not my problem anymore. No, but But thank God, I had the experience. And when I left Bobbi Brown cosmetics. I was 59.9 years old. Without knowing anything that I was going to do. I walked away and it was like, I thought I was done. I thought people weren't gonna care about me. I thought people weren't going to ask me, you know, any questions anymore, and it became the opposite.

David Novak 23:48

So how'd you pick yourself up and get started again?

Bobbi Brown 23:51

Well, I didn't really fall down, which maybe I should have. I came home and I called my best friends that luckily for me live next door to me, they moved next door, which was great. They brought over a bottle of tequila. We talked. The next day, they came over again, we did it. And the third day, I started making phone calls to make lunch plans with people, people that I haven't seen in a while. And one of the two early calls was to a guy named Richard Baker, who at the time owned Lord and Taylor, he was trying to figure out how to save it. And he said, All right, we have this real estate in the middle of the of the Fifth Avenue store. I need to bring some excitement. What if we give you that space? And you turn it into the your own shop shop within a shop and I'm like, What am I going to put in this shop? He's like anything you want. I said all right, what if we call it just Bobby? And what if I curate like cool clothes and sneakers and I did it and I put a team together and honestly it was a week or so after I left the brand.

David Novak 24:56

So you start just Bobby a week after you leave the brand Enter the startup evolution 18 You write a book beauty from the inside out, you know, oh my god, where do these ideas come from? You say, and you did just body a week after you quit, you know? Do you sleep at night? Or

Bobbi Brown 25:15

what? Yeah, no, I, you know, I, I'm asleep by 1010 30. And I don't start working till at least 10 in the morning, because I need to exercise in the morning. My lifestyle is, honestly, what kind of leads me to, you know, my work style. And by the way, you'll hire the team, you will and you work with the team, and we discuss things. And that's how things get done. And I love like working with young, interesting, energetic, optimistic kids, because so many people have been burned so much in the workforce, that sometimes you'll hire someone who has a lot of knowledge. But they're just No, no, no, that's not going to work. That's not going to work. I like people that say, Wow, that's so interesting. Let's try it.

David Novak 26:02

Tell us about evolution. 18? Well, evolution 18, which

Bobbi Brown 26:05

is a wellness brand. I did not again, I did not set to create a wellness brand. I had my ninth book beauty from the inside out to promote when I left the brand, I actually wrote it while I was still at the brand and came out April after I left the brand, which was also my 60th birthday. So I had a book to promote. And I did it so differently than all the other things I did when I was part of the corporation. I literally took Ubers to the different, you know, stations, I wore sneakers and not high heels. I did not bring a hairdresser, I got to blow out a dry bar, I did my makeup in the car. And you know what it was such a less stressful, easier way. And more comfortable for me. So that was great. And then while I was promoting that QVC actually called me and said, What would you like to do, we'd like to do something with you. And we discussed this vitamin wellness brand. And I had a vitamin manufacturer and I sat down and thought about some products that I went out there that I thought would help help people. I also went back to school. And I got my degree as a health coach, you know, a digital school so I got to do that at home.

David Novak 27:32

So you go from this beauty guru to now you're a wellness guru, you just talked about how you started the platform here. When you look at beauty and wellness, which which platform gives you the most joy? Well, it's

Bobbi Brown 27:44

really funny, I see them together. And the look, there's nothing I like better than being a makeup artist. There's nothing I like better than making makeup. But I also am obsessed with health and wellness. And certainly, you know the effects that has on your skin on your hair. So combining it all, which I think is the most modern thing is really what excites me the most,

David Novak 28:08

you've had so much success. Bobby, tell us about what you would consider your biggest failure and what you learned from it.

Bobbi Brown 28:15

Well, you know, there's been many, there's been a lot of, you know, people that I hired that I thought were my guys trustworthy, and they weren't, you know, there was a big divide often with people that worked for me that were also you know, had a worked with the corporation. So, you know, mostly disappointed in people. You know, yes, I made the decisions to hire a lot of them. But, you know, that was something I had to get over and, you know, you know, I am someone that looks at things that don't work out. And I think Okay, that didn't work out why? What did I learned from it? And okay, let me do something else. And there's lots of them. There's products that were brought out, there's, you know, there's companies that I started that are not there. I mean, I had an eyeglass brand for a couple years. And when retail started to go down, it started to go down and the eyeglass manufacturer didn't know how to shift online. So it didn't work. You really

David Novak 29:19

focus on helping women get comfortable with who they are. Tell us the origin of that passion, Bobby.

Bobbi Brown 29:27

Well, I think you know, growing up, I used to watch my absolutely stunning gorgeous parents and I always wanted to look like them. Their friends were you know, like so gorgeous, you know, in the 70s. And I just never felt that I was pretty enough. I never felt I was as attractive as my, you know, my tall blonde, cheerleader friends. And what changed my life is when I went to see the movie Love Story, and I saw Ali McGraw and I saw a Natural dark haired, hardly any makeup not fancy girl who I thought was so beautiful, who kind of looked like me a little bit. And that's when I realized there's more than one way to be beautiful. And that really helped me realize I could be beautiful my own way. I don't have to look like, you know, the models or Barbie or you know, people that I don't look like,

David Novak 30:24

you know, authenticity is such a buzzword and leadership today. You built a business on it. I just

Bobbi Brown 30:30

to me, it's like a joke when they say, yeah, the trend is authenticity and transparency. It's like, wait a minute, isn't that how we're all supposed to be? And that's the way I was raised. And I, you know, look, I am the person that if you asked me a question, I will tell you the truth. I don't always think about how the words come out. So sometimes it might be a little stinging. I try to be nice, but I have a wicked sense of humor. And I am very quick. So sometimes I don't think before I speak, that is a quality. corporately, I always got in trouble. And I, you know, I tried to get better at

David Novak 31:10

You really seem to have a lot of fun doing stuff that you don't know a lot about different things and how do you give yourself the confidence to get out of your comfort zone?

Bobbi Brown 31:21

Well, I don't, again, I might probably the best trait I have that I can't teach anyone is I'm so friggin naive. Like, I just don't think something's not gonna work out. I just think, oh, that sounds so interesting. Let me try it. You know, I got a call one day from Marissa Meyer at Yahoo. And she said, we want to build a digital beauty magazine. And we want you to be the editor in chief. I was still a Bobbi Brown cosmetics and I was like, what? Okay, interesting. I don't know how to type. Okay, now I've got to go, you know, get permission from Estee Lauder. And I did it. And I was like, I didn't know what I was doing. But I got to hire people around me. That did no. And I did it. I did it for two years. And it was the most incredible experience. And I love doing things I don't know how to do. I think it's interesting.

David Novak 32:21

you've conducted I understand, what do you call competence interviews with women that you admire? Who would be some of those women? And what have you learned by doing this?

Bobbi Brown 32:34

Well, there's certainly so many I mean, I'm, I'm so lucky that I get to meet all these incredible women. So I mean, the first one that popped in my head is a woman named Joanna Cole, who was the editor in chief of Harper's Bazaar, then she was like, the Chief Content Officer at Hearst. And she was just the cool, she still is the coolest, most confident, like funny person, you know, married with kids, you know, wicked sense of humor, and I built this friendship. And I always locate Joanna, Who who are you saying, what kind of doctor? What are you eating? What are you doing? How do you manage this. And I've built these friendships with these women. And I love sharing their stories with the general public, which is one of the things I do with just bobby.com is have these people as my experts, and it's a reason I have a podcast, because I do think that we all learn a lot by listening to people's stories. By the way, I think women need to lift other women off.

David Novak 33:40

Bobby, what's it like to work with Bobby Brown?

Bobbi Brown 33:43

Well, you're asking the wrong person, you can ask my husband and my kids, they will tell you one thing. And if you ask, you know, Tara, who started as my executive assistant, and now she is basically the, you know, runs all of my brands. She has a very thick skin, we, you know, I could whine to her and be myself, I could tell her everything. And she says, Once you are in the fold, and understand how this you know, interesting, crazy nice, you know, impatient woman is, it's, it's like magic happens. So, you know, I can guarantee you out of all the hundreds of people that worked with me, you know, when I was part of the corporation, there was plenty of people that didn't understand me or my style and would not be saying the most lovely things and there's other people that would say, it was a dream.

David Novak 34:38

You obviously have a lot of self reflection, you're very self aware. How do you go about coaching yourself, Bobby?

Bobbi Brown 34:46

Well, I need to calm myself down more and that's something I'm working on. You know, I wake up and especially now during the pandemic and you know, you wake up and you're like, you know, you open an eye and you're like, Okay, Here we are, and have my coffee, I read the newspaper, and then it's like, and you know, if I have any kind of like little bit of like, you know, low, low moment, I just say enough, I white, you know, turn myself positive and get out, I exercise first thing in the morning every day. And that helps me get the cobwebs out of my head. And it helps me kind of set the tone for the day. And I also bring my phone with me if I'm not listening to podcast, I just pick up the phone and call someone I need to talk to, or someone I haven't talked to in a while. And it just helps me process things.

David Novak 35:38

How have you gone about embracing social media? And how do you think leaders today should think about it?

Bobbi Brown 35:43

Well, unfortunately, I've embraced it so much that you know, my husband has set a rule that I can't be on my device when we are driving. But even though I, I can't help it, it's like an itch, I can't scratch, I still do it. I have always loved social media, I use it, I use it instead of Google. If I want to learn something, I will search it. I use it certainly to communicate, I use it to reach out to people. I have an Instagram Live TV series that I do. And I find it the most incredible thing because you get instant answers and instant results. You know, I think there's a lot of negativity on it. And I think that has to change. But I think the positivity outweighs it.

David Novak 36:30

You give all kinds of speeches to women executives, I know you did one at my former company yum brands. And I remember people the raving about it. And I know you just had a talk with JPMorgan Chase executives, what would be the three most important bits of advice you offer up?

Bobbi Brown 36:49

First of all, be yourself. Be yourself, know yourself. Because a lot of times we think we have to act a certain way and be a certain way to be successful. And I don't think it's the right way. So you know, be yourself, know yourself. And don't ever forget about how you feel and how people feel and take care of your health. So be yourself. Take care of your health care about other people. And the third thing is don't be afraid. You know, what's the worst that happens? It doesn't work out.

David Novak 37:25

Bobby, this has been a crazy time we're living in how has Corona virus impacted your business and you personally?

Bobbi Brown 37:33

Well, it's been very interesting, because you know, when it first happened, we had no idea and everybody, you know, dispersed. And everything was sensitive. You know, what do we put on social media? How could we be selling these supplements during this really tough time? And then, you know, when things calm down, we realize, now is the time people need to feel better. People need the positivity. I think they you know, they look to me for that. And so our business, you know, our direct to consumer was 30% down, which I thought wasn't bad. And Walmart actually was down because the stores were closed, but it's back up. And you know, we opened up more doors and now our direct to consumer is booming because our products are a good price point. And they help people with simple ways to be healthier. And I think that's what people want at home. How can I how can I be better? How can I feel better? It took three months for me to get a peloton. You know, it's like, and I finally got one. So we're in this for the long haul. It's not we're not out of this tomorrow.

David Novak 38:44

What do you see happening to the American psyche that will be different because of Coronavirus?

Bobbi Brown 38:51

Well, I think that a lot of it has reset people how they think and how they feel. And I think it made everyone just pause and realize how you know lucky we are to have our health, how lucky we are to be with loved ones that we wouldn't have this opportunity otherwise. And I do think that even after there's a vaccine and after the virus somehow magically goes away or whatever. I think people are different. I think people don't want they want like simpler things. People are still going to be wearing sneakers more than high heels. I think women are going to be having simple hairdos not spending hours and hours, you know, doing all these things they did, I think and I hope it's gonna make people care about other people more.

David Novak 39:40

We've all seen so much racial injustice this year and the impact of that. How do you think about diversity and inclusion going forward?

Bobbi Brown 39:50

Well, I've always been someone that you know, has had friends from many different backgrounds. I grew up with, you know people from different back grounds the town we live is completely mixed both, you know, socio economical and, and racial. And I've always been so open that when this all happened for me it was such a shock, because I didn't realize the extent of what people were going through. So yes, was I educated? And am I still being educated and do it, I have these intense conversations with my friends of color, yes. And just I've learned so much and the one you know, to be a mom, and to have to worry not just about your kid, God forbid, getting into an accident in a car, but getting arrested and killed because of the color of their skin. That was just the biggest like, aha moment for me in this whole thing. So I think the conversation is open. And I, I hope that you know, especially like the black founders, who I've been helping of these brands that have been having some difficulty with their businesses, I think now is the time that they should seize the opportunity. And people are, are ready for for more diversity.

David Novak 41:10

What do you tell a black founder? What do you tell them, they should do?

Bobbi Brown 41:15

Do exactly what they're doing the same thing that I did, as you know, an entrepreneur founder, and, you know, just make sure that you are servicing not just black women, make sure that you have colors for white women to you know, don't just be, my suggestion is don't just be a brand, for one part, be a brand for everybody. And you know what, and don't be in a rush. Go slow, try not to take investment, and seize every opportunity, you have to get known to get your name out there to make connections, you know what, and don't, don't waste and spend money, but just keep going for it. And I actually reached out on Instagram to a couple different companies. And I've become mentors to these founders. And, you know, I shout them out for my social and I give them advice. And, you know, I would like someone to do it to me, too.

David Novak 42:15

That's great. You know, speaking of opportunity, I want to take this opportunity to have just a little bit of fun before we wrap this up. And I want to do a lightning round q&a with you, Bobby. What three words best describe you?

Bobbi Brown 42:28

Short, funny, and unexpected?

David Novak 42:32

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Bobbi Brown 42:34

People that don't tell the truth and aren't nice,

David Novak 42:38

most famous person you did make up for Michelle Obama. If you could be one person other than yourself for a day, who would it be and why?

Bobbi Brown 42:49

Oh my God, that's a tough one. I don't want to say Michelle Obama again, because I'm such a huge fan of hers. I would say probably my son Duke. I don't know. He's so capable and talented. I want to know what is going on in that brain of his.

David Novak 43:07

What's something about you that few people would know?

Bobbi Brown 43:10

Well, I danced on stage with Flo rider and salt and pepper.

David Novak 43:15

That's a good one. Do you have a hidden talent?

Bobbi Brown 43:18

I do not have a hidden talent. But I love to dance. i There's nothing I like better than having a cocktail or two and have some like hip hop. I listen to hip hop music.

David Novak 43:30

Who is the leader you admire most and why? I've always

Bobbi Brown 43:32

been a fan of Richard Branson. I just think that he you know is someone that you know, has led his his company and interesting ways. Also Mickey Drexler who used to be the CEO of J. Crew, and the gap is another one.

David Novak 43:47

You talked about partners earlier. And you have an amazing business partner, your husband, Steven, who I was had the opportunity to meet last week as well. What's it like to work with your husband so closely and on the business side? And why do you guys jealous partners?

Bobbi Brown 44:04

Well, first of all, I'm really lucky. He's brilliant. He's smart, he's strong, it is not always easy. I get pushback a lot. And I've learned how not to make things a much bigger deal than they are. He's allowed to say that's stupid. That's a bad idea. No, I don't agree. And I just need to let him say it and I need to not pounce and have a fight about it. And I think that's the most important thing I learned working with big corporate men, is when they say something, all you have to do is say that's a really good idea.

David Novak 44:46

Well, I noticed you have a strong mutual admiration for each other's talent.

Bobbi Brown 44:51

Yeah, well, we're very different. My husband is very creative, which you know, he does share that. But you know, he I don't always agree with everything he says. And he certainly doesn't always agree with me. I am looking forward to prove him wrong on a few things. And but honestly, I'm really lucky because it's been 32 years of love mentorship friendship. And I just got lucky that he is really smart, really capable. And he calms me down.

David Novak 45:25

That is a challenge. I'm sure. You know, you also have three kids, you talked about? How do you do so much? And at least seemingly keep it all together?

Bobbi Brown 45:36

Well, I, I usually have it together. And when I don't have it together, it's okay. Like, there's days I don't feel good. There's days that I'm overwhelmed. There's days, and it's okay. One thing about me is I know when to take it down a notch, and learn to take a little better care of myself. It comes and goes. And I also know everything is a moment. I do overschedule myself, it's like, Sure, I could do that. Sure, I could do that. And all of a sudden, I'm going from one thing to the other. But after this, I'm done. Oh no, I have someone coming over for a cocktail. But that's not really work.

David Novak 46:14

Well, I want to take this moment, Bobby, to thank you very much for taking the time in you're obviously very, very filled up live, to share your insights with aspiring leaders out there. I mean, we all love to learn about you. That's why you'd like to do your podcast. And that's why I like to do mine is so that people can learn from people like you. So thank you very much for sharing.

Bobbi Brown 46:35

Well, my pleasure. Well, you know, you've I'm sure you've seen the movie The Intern? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So if you ever get really bored, I'd like to offer you an internship at my I'm not kidding.

David Novak 46:49

All have to talk to you more about that.

Bobbi Brown 46:51

Yeah. Okay, good. There's a lot for me to learn. Thank you so much.

David Novak 46:54

Okay, thank you. Bye, bye bye.

What an amazing person Barbie is and what an amazing career she has had and continues to have. And really through it all, she's so good at surrounding herself with the right people. She has a remarkable level of self awareness, what she's good at, and what she's not. And with that she's able to spot great partners, people whose skills and traits complement hers. And together, they accomplish so much more. Great leaders know how to surround themselves with great partners whose skills and gifts go hand in hand with their own. And I bet you have someone in your life who's that kind of complementary partner who balances you out. Maybe it's your business partner, maybe it's your spouse, maybe it's your second in command. Maybe it's a colleague you just collaborate with really, really well. Well, this week, as part of your weekly personal development plan, I want you to send them a quick note. First, tell them why you appreciate them so much. Second, ask them. What do you wish I understood about you better? And then say, hey, how do you think we can even work better as a team using the unique skills and gifts we have? Open up that dialogue with those key partners in your life, and I know you will grow a ton from it. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders surround themselves with the right partners. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interviewed some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

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