[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_137":-5,"_138":-5,"_139":140,"_141":142,"_143":144},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1831/inaction-can-make-a-bad-decision-even-worse","id",1831,"title","Inaction can make a bad decision even worse","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.000\nover time when I make wrong decisions and I do,\n\n2\n00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.020\nas we all do, the best thing to do is always to really focus\n\n3\n00:00:10.020 --> 00:00:13.000\nin on the fact that that decision was wrong\n\n4\n00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:16.280\nand then to pivot and figure out what the right decision is\n\n5\n00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:18.420\nand change and go in that direction.\n\n6\n00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:22.620\nBecause what I found is, especially in my work in advocacy,\n\n7\n00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:25.400\nmaking the wrong decision isn't fatal,\n\n8\n00:00:25.400 --> 00:00:28.280\nbut not doing something about it could be.\n\n9\n00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:32.160\nAnd so I think that for me, I have three young girls\n\n10\n00:00:32.160 --> 00:00:35.420\nand I've spent a lot of time watching really interesting\n\n11\n00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:38.200\nkids programs including the Magic School Bus.\n\n12\n00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:40.460\nAnd for anybody that's a fan of Ms. Frizzle\n\n13\n00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:42.760\non the Magic School Bus, they've heard her say,\n\n14\n00:00:42.760 --> 00:00:46.320\n\"Take chances, get messy, make mistakes.\"\n\n15\n00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.240\nAnd I've always thought that that really should be\n\n16\n00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:51.600\na great mantra for everyone.\n\n17\n00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:55.240\nAnd so when you go out there and make big bets\n\n18\n00:00:55.240 --> 00:00:57.000\nand it doesn't work,\n\n19\n00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:00.560\nI think it's really learning what was it that doesn't work.\n\n20\n00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.080\nAnd being honest about what didn't work.\n\n21\n00:01:03.080 --> 00:01:06.080\nAnd a lot of times there's some ego involved\n\n22\n00:01:06.080 --> 00:01:08.240\nin some assumptions that were made\n\n23\n00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:10.160\nand being honest about that.\n\n24\n00:01:10.160 --> 00:01:14.360\nAnd then using that to change how you make future decisions\n\n25\n00:01:14.360 --> 00:01:16.360\nis really the most important thing.\n\n26\n00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:26.360\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1610880,"end_time",1686579,"keywords","Decisions, decision making, avoidance, inaction, failure, mistakes, growth mindset, Miss Frizzle","slug","inaction-can-make-a-bad-decision-even-worse","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","7jdKYuk6xgPuSDvGWv7DGoimE7NC19e00H76edRXBxSA","mux_asset_id","I317102JtN3Ij8mMX3CygWVhJa4vLZpb1bdaZdT02rZQg","leader_id",171,"episode_id",320,"updated_at","2025-02-26T20:14:11.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1831/inaction-can-make-a-bad-decision-even-worse","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":110,"_111":112,"_69":113,"_39":114,"_115":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_116":117,"_89":118,"_44":119,"_120":121,"_122":123,"_46":-5,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_93":128,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Engage others by drawing them out","engage-others-by-drawing-them-out","Learn how to draw others out and get them more engaged with whatever mission you’re on. Discover a key mindset shift you need to make after getting promoted. Plus, can’t-miss career advice for women.","summary","

How can you get people engaged with your big plans and strategies? It starts with how you engage with them.

Michelle Korsmo is the President and CEO of the National Restaurant Association, and she understands the power of drawing people out in order to get them engaged with her big goals. Listen to this episode and see how it’s done!

You’ll also learn:

How to turn big strategies into real plans
Two key factors to advancing your agenda
The mindset shift you need to make after getting promoted
Advice for women who want to advance in their careers

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.100\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:07.100 --> 00:00:08.520\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:10.600\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:13.880\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:14.460\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:18.360\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.360 --> 00:00:21.280\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:26.510\nYou know, every leader I know has big ideas, big strategies, big goals, and I\n\n9\n00:00:26.510 --> 00:00:27.400\nbet you do\n\n10\n00:00:27.400 --> 00:00:28.400\ntoo.\n\n11\n00:00:28.400 --> 00:00:32.960\nOf course, the hard part is actually turning those big plans into reality.\n\n12\n00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:38.120\nBut the one thing I can tell you is, you sure as heck can't do it by yourself.\n\n13\n00:00:38.120 --> 00:00:42.320\nYou're going to need to get other people on board and engaged.\n\n14\n00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:45.730\nThat's why I'm so glad you're listening to this conversation with Michelle Kors\n\n15\n00:00:45.730 --> 00:00:47.120\nmoe today.\n\n16\n00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:50.840\nShe's the president and CEO of the National Restaurant Association.\n\n17\n00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.390\nAnd in support of the restaurant industry, she works with all kinds of people,\n\n18\n00:00:54.390 --> 00:00:54.960\nincluding\n\n19\n00:00:54.960 --> 00:01:00.350\nnearly a million restaurant tours, a huge board with over 100 members, and a\n\n20\n00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:01.200\nlittle something\n\n21\n00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.760\ncalled the United States Congress.\n\n22\n00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:09.140\nAnd in all these different relationships, Michelle knows how to draw people out\n\n23\n00:01:09.140 --> 00:01:09.720\nand really\n\n24\n00:01:09.720 --> 00:01:14.320\nget people engaged and on board with her strategic goals.\n\n25\n00:01:14.320 --> 00:01:17.320\nI can't wait for you to learn just how she does it.\n\n26\n00:01:17.320 --> 00:01:21.410\nHere's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Michelle Kors\n\n27\n00:01:21.410 --> 00:01:21.840\nmoe.\n\n28\n00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:34.580\nYou know, you took over as CEO of the National Restaurant Association in May of\n\n29\n00:01:34.580 --> 00:01:36.000\n2022.\n\n30\n00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:39.560\nGive us a snapshot of the business that you run today.\n\n31\n00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:42.840\nYou know, it's an interesting time to start with the National Restaurant\n\n32\n00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:44.120\nAssociation because\n\n33\n00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:49.890\nin, you know, that time we were two years kind of post the launch of COVID and\n\n34\n00:01:49.890 --> 00:01:50.640\nwhat that\n\n35\n00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:52.200\ndid to the industry.\n\n36\n00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:58.660\nAnd so most of the industry was working to get back to business as usual and\n\n37\n00:01:58.660 --> 00:01:59.640\nreally trying\n\n38\n00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:02.200\nto figure out what that landscape looked like.\n\n39\n00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.680\nBut of course, everybody was doing so with a lot of bruises.\n\n40\n00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:09.820\nThere was a lot of pain that happened during the pandemic in the restaurant\n\n41\n00:02:09.820 --> 00:02:10.640\nindustry.\n\n42\n00:02:10.640 --> 00:02:15.200\nAnd it continues to exist for so many companies.\n\n43\n00:02:15.200 --> 00:02:18.720\nAlthough what's fascinating is just when everybody was feeling like they were\n\n44\n00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:19.200\ngetting\n\n45\n00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:24.830\nback to what they would consider business as usual, we really came into big\n\n46\n00:02:24.830 --> 00:02:25.520\nincreases\n\n47\n00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:31.530\nin food prices, challenges with workforce shortages, trying to find workers,\n\n48\n00:02:31.530 --> 00:02:32.400\nget people\n\n49\n00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:37.370\nback up and running and figure out how to bring that great warm hospitality\n\n50\n00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:38.360\nback to everybody\n\n51\n00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:41.280\nwho was so desperate to get back to restaurants.\n\n52\n00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:44.710\nSo it was a really interesting time to come into the industry and I was so glad\n\n53\n00:02:44.710 --> 00:02:45.000\nto be\n\n54\n00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.400\nable to do so.\n\n55\n00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.330\nYou know, when you think about it, there aren't too many industries that are a\n\n56\n00:02:50.330 --> 00:02:51.120\npart of everybody's\n\n57\n00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.760\nlife like restaurants.\n\n58\n00:02:53.760 --> 00:02:56.800\nHow many restaurants are in your association?\n\n59\n00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:59.960\nIn the United States, we represent nearly a million restaurants.\n\n60\n00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:03.780\nAnd so if you think about that, nearly a million restaurants in this country,\n\n61\n00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:04.240\nthat's\n\n62\n00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.920\nan awful lot of businesses.\n\n63\n00:03:06.920 --> 00:03:12.050\nAnd one of the stats that I love is the fact that nearly every county in\n\n64\n00:03:12.050 --> 00:03:13.120\nAmerica has at\n\n65\n00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:15.400\nleast three restaurants.\n\n66\n00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.580\nAnd for those of us that have done a lot of travel around this beautiful\n\n67\n00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:19.160\ncountry, you\n\n68\n00:03:19.160 --> 00:03:23.500\nknow that there's a lot of counties out there where there's not a lot of\n\n69\n00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:25.080\npopulation density\n\n70\n00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.810\nand groups of people, but it doesn't take very many people to live in a\n\n71\n00:03:28.810 --> 00:03:29.640\nneighborhood\n\n72\n00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:33.840\nor an area or before they decide that it would be great to have a restaurant.\n\n73\n00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:34.840\nEverybody's got to eat.\n\n74\n00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:37.040\nThat's how always when I was running young brands.\n\n75\n00:03:37.040 --> 00:03:38.640\nYou know, that's right.\n\n76\n00:03:38.640 --> 00:03:43.700\nI want to get in now, you're leading as the CEO, but before I do that, I want\n\n77\n00:03:43.700 --> 00:03:44.360\nto start\n\n78\n00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:45.840\nat the beginning.\n\n79\n00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:50.310\nWhat's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today\n\n80\n00:03:50.310 --> 00:03:50.440\n?\n\n81\n00:03:50.440 --> 00:03:52.720\nIt's funny to think about how long ago childhood was.\n\n82\n00:03:52.720 --> 00:03:55.640\nI had a great childhood.\n\n83\n00:03:55.640 --> 00:03:58.960\nI grew up on a farm in North Dakota.\n\n84\n00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:00.360\nIt was a grain farm.\n\n85\n00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:06.480\nMy dad grew wheat and barley and pinto beans and soybeans and every once in a\n\n86\n00:04:06.480 --> 00:04:08.520\nwhile sunflowers.\n\n87\n00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:13.660\nAnd it was really wonderful to grow up on a place where my family had lived for\n\n88\n00:04:13.660 --> 00:04:13.920\nat that\n\n89\n00:04:13.920 --> 00:04:15.880\ntime nearly a hundred years.\n\n90\n00:04:15.880 --> 00:04:18.400\nAnd so you really get a sense of longevity.\n\n91\n00:04:18.400 --> 00:04:24.160\nYou get a sense of place and you feel really connected to the community.\n\n92\n00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:28.810\nOne of the things I think about is the friends I had when I was a kid, their\n\n93\n00:04:28.810 --> 00:04:29.520\nparents were\n\n94\n00:04:29.520 --> 00:04:33.040\nfriends with my parents and their grandparents were friends with my\n\n95\n00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:34.040\ngrandparents.\n\n96\n00:04:34.040 --> 00:04:38.450\nAnd there's something really wonderful about being a part of community where\n\n97\n00:04:38.450 --> 00:04:39.160\nyou have that\n\n98\n00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.490\nsense of long-term relationships where you feel really a sense of\n\n99\n00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:43.680\nresponsibility to each\n\n100\n00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:45.600\nother in a different way.\n\n101\n00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:50.160\nAnd I think that that has always stayed with me when I think about who I am in\n\n102\n00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:50.960\nmy work.\n\n103\n00:04:50.960 --> 00:04:55.920\nI always think about the fact that I'm that farm girl from North Dakota.\n\n104\n00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:00.080\nMy grandparents lived in Meadville, Missouri and they were on a farm.\n\n105\n00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:04.400\nI mean, it's a really tough job to be a farmer.\n\n106\n00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:08.280\nDid you get up and milk the cows and feed the chickens?\n\n107\n00:05:08.280 --> 00:05:10.600\nWhat was your role as a young family member?\n\n108\n00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:11.600\nOh, yes.\n\n109\n00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:12.600\nWe didn't have cows and chickens.\n\n110\n00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.300\nI had rabbits and they weren't quite as particular about being fed at exactly\n\n111\n00:05:16.300 --> 00:05:17.360\nthe same time,\n\n112\n00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:18.560\nwhich was good for me.\n\n113\n00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:23.410\nBut my dad would love to have his friends call over to the house in the morning\n\n114\n00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:23.800\nwhen\n\n115\n00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:27.340\nI was supposed to be out on the tractor to see if I had gotten up and was out\n\n116\n00:05:27.340 --> 00:05:28.360\nin the field.\n\n117\n00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:32.240\nAnd they, of course, loved to be able to rib me to do that.\n\n118\n00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:36.910\nBut it's such an interesting business when I think about the business that my\n\n119\n00:05:36.910 --> 00:05:37.440\ndad and\n\n120\n00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:38.840\nhis brother had.\n\n121\n00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:43.850\nAnd one of the things that is fascinating about it is so much of your success\n\n122\n00:05:43.850 --> 00:05:44.880\nisn't dependent\n\n123\n00:05:44.880 --> 00:05:46.600\nupon you, right?\n\n124\n00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:49.040\nBecause it really is dependent upon the weather.\n\n125\n00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:53.060\nIt's dependent upon what's happening around the globe when you think about your\n\n126\n00:05:53.060 --> 00:05:53.680\ncommodity\n\n127\n00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:55.200\nprices.\n\n128\n00:05:55.200 --> 00:06:00.620\nAnd what's interesting is that's pretty similar to the business of advocacy for\n\n129\n00:06:00.620 --> 00:06:02.120\ntrade associations\n\n130\n00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.960\nor being involved in politics when you're not the elected official.\n\n131\n00:06:05.960 --> 00:06:11.170\nWe don't have a vote, but we're working hard to shape that political outcome in\n\n132\n00:06:11.170 --> 00:06:12.480\na way that\n\n133\n00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:13.720\nwe're not in control.\n\n134\n00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:16.400\nAnd it's interesting to do that kind of work when there's so much of it that's\n\n135\n00:06:16.400 --> 00:06:16.880\nout of your\n\n136\n00:06:16.880 --> 00:06:17.880\ncontrol.\n\n137\n00:06:17.880 --> 00:06:21.360\nWell, you certainly have an upbringing that got you ready for that.\n\n138\n00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:25.170\nAnd as I understand it, this is your third leadership role in the trade\n\n139\n00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:26.120\nassociation.\n\n140\n00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.360\nYou were ahead of the American Land Title Association and CEO of the Wine and\n\n141\n00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:30.920\nSpirits\n\n142\n00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:32.280\nWholesalers of America.\n\n143\n00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:34.040\nThat sounds like a fun job.\n\n144\n00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.420\nAnd now the CEO of the National Restaurant Association, what's kept you in the\n\n145\n00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:40.440\nassociation\n\n146\n00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:41.440\nspace?\n\n147\n00:06:41.440 --> 00:06:42.440\nYou must love it.\n\n148\n00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.440\nI mean, what is it about it that really turns you on?\n\n149\n00:06:45.440 --> 00:06:52.880\nSo I got the political bug pretty early on and have always done some kind of\n\n150\n00:06:52.880 --> 00:06:53.320\nwork in\n\n151\n00:06:53.320 --> 00:06:54.640\nadvocacy.\n\n152\n00:06:54.640 --> 00:06:59.070\nAnd one of the things that I've found really interesting about associations,\n\n153\n00:06:59.070 --> 00:06:59.760\nwhich when\n\n154\n00:06:59.760 --> 00:07:04.000\nI think about Washington, I really think about Washington as a company town.\n\n155\n00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:08.290\nNow there's a very active and vibrant business community in DC outside of the\n\n156\n00:07:08.290 --> 00:07:09.480\npolitical space.\n\n157\n00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.960\nBut for the most part, DC is a company town.\n\n158\n00:07:12.960 --> 00:07:17.390\nAnd associations for me, when I first came into associations, was like working\n\n159\n00:07:17.390 --> 00:07:17.960\nin a different\n\n160\n00:07:17.960 --> 00:07:21.760\ndivision of the company in a place that I really felt I should learn.\n\n161\n00:07:21.760 --> 00:07:26.200\nAnd what I found is it's tremendously rewarding because of the work that you're\n\n162\n00:07:26.200 --> 00:07:26.840\ndoing for\n\n163\n00:07:26.840 --> 00:07:28.000\nthe members.\n\n164\n00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:31.240\nWe all want to do work for something bigger than ourselves.\n\n165\n00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:35.540\nAnd I think one of the great things about working in associations is the work\n\n166\n00:07:35.540 --> 00:07:36.000\nthat we\n\n167\n00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:41.320\ncan do to help our members see the future and understand how business is\n\n168\n00:07:41.320 --> 00:07:42.400\nchanging and\n\n169\n00:07:42.400 --> 00:07:46.620\nhelp them make decisions with the information that we can share so that their\n\n170\n00:07:46.620 --> 00:07:47.360\nbusinesses\n\n171\n00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:48.680\ncan thrive.\n\n172\n00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:52.500\nAnd then do that advocacy work to help their businesses thrive is just\n\n173\n00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.200\ntremendously rewarding.\n\n174\n00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:56.640\nSo that has been fantastic.\n\n175\n00:07:56.640 --> 00:08:00.480\nThe other thing that's so wonderful about association life is I spend a lot of\n\n176\n00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:00.760\ntime\n\n177\n00:08:00.760 --> 00:08:01.920\non the road.\n\n178\n00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:04.990\nAnd for anybody that spends a lot of time on the road, you know that that's\n\n179\n00:08:04.990 --> 00:08:05.520\nactually\n\n180\n00:08:05.520 --> 00:08:06.520\npretty tough, right?\n\n181\n00:08:06.520 --> 00:08:08.000\nIt can be fairly exhausting.\n\n182\n00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.300\nBut the nice thing for me when I'm on the road is I'm going to see members and\n\n183\n00:08:11.300 --> 00:08:11.560\nI'm\n\n184\n00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.480\ngoing to see them in their place of business and visit their communities.\n\n185\n00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:22.180\nAnd that's always energizing because there's so much that people are doing that\n\n186\n00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:22.760\nreally\n\n187\n00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:24.120\nis affirming, right?\n\n188\n00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:28.660\nThat positive affirmation of the great things that they're doing in their\n\n189\n00:08:28.660 --> 00:08:29.760\ncommunities.\n\n190\n00:08:29.760 --> 00:08:34.260\nYou know, when you take over an association, you have to become a subject\n\n191\n00:08:34.260 --> 00:08:35.480\nmatter expert.\n\n192\n00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:39.080\nI mean, you have to really know your industry inside and out.\n\n193\n00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.600\nYou know, as a leader, how do you go about learning a new industry and use the\n\n194\n00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:44.440\nrestaurant\n\n195\n00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:46.440\ncategory as an example?\n\n196\n00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:51.480\nWith the restaurant industry, it really is about diving deep in conversation.\n\n197\n00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:56.950\nAnd I think that one of the things that is an important part of any work that\n\n198\n00:08:56.950 --> 00:08:57.560\npeople\n\n199\n00:08:57.560 --> 00:08:59.840\ndo is that curiosity.\n\n200\n00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:04.880\nAnd for me, it's really asking a lot of questions and asking why they make\n\n201\n00:09:04.880 --> 00:09:06.320\ndecisions they make,\n\n202\n00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:11.120\nlooking around at what's in front of us on a business, how things are set up,\n\n203\n00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:11.840\nhow they're\n\n204\n00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:15.530\nstructured, why they structure that way, how they've made decisions to expand,\n\n205\n00:09:15.530 --> 00:09:15.880\nhow they\n\n206\n00:09:15.880 --> 00:09:20.370\nmake decisions to contract their business, asking about what those challenges\n\n207\n00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:20.840\nare.\n\n208\n00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:25.200\nThere's so much really to learn in those conversations.\n\n209\n00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.680\nYou know, we all want to find an answer in a book, and there are a lot of\n\n210\n00:09:28.680 --> 00:09:29.320\nanswers in\n\n211\n00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:30.320\na book.\n\n212\n00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.940\nAnd I think that there is a really important balance of, you know, reading\n\n213\n00:09:33.940 --> 00:09:35.200\nabout an industry,\n\n214\n00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:40.070\nreading some of the policy rules and regulations that are so much of why people\n\n215\n00:09:40.070 --> 00:09:40.920\nset up their\n\n216\n00:09:40.920 --> 00:09:43.520\nbusinesses the way they set them up in order to make sure that they're\n\n217\n00:09:43.520 --> 00:09:44.320\ncomplying with the\n\n218\n00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:51.170\nlaws, but to get deeper, right, to find out that kind of second layer of why\n\n219\n00:09:51.170 --> 00:09:52.080\nthings are\n\n220\n00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:55.380\nhappening the way they're happening and how an industry works really involves\n\n221\n00:09:55.380 --> 00:09:56.200\npaying attention\n\n222\n00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.200\nand asking a lot of questions.\n\n223\n00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.560\nYou know, you also have to go in and build your team.\n\n224\n00:10:01.560 --> 00:10:05.220\nAnd you don't get to pick your team when you first go into a place, you inherit\n\n225\n00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:06.200\na team.\n\n226\n00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:10.720\nHow do you go about evaluating your team and deciding who should be on it and\n\n227\n00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:11.320\nwhether\n\n228\n00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:14.160\nyou have the right people on the bus?\n\n229\n00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:16.920\nI don't know that I think of it about evaluating the team.\n\n230\n00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:22.090\nI think for me, it's really more of defining and understanding the vision of\n\n231\n00:10:22.090 --> 00:10:23.080\nwhere I think\n\n232\n00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.680\nwe should be going for this association.\n\n233\n00:10:25.680 --> 00:10:27.120\nThe team is strong.\n\n234\n00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:30.740\nI think anytime you're coming into an organization at this level, you're coming\n\n235\n00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:31.400\ninto a really\n\n236\n00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:32.840\nstrong team.\n\n237\n00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:36.360\nAnd it's important to remember that the leaders before you were really smart\n\n238\n00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:37.160\npeople and they\n\n239\n00:10:37.160 --> 00:10:40.960\nhad really good reasons for making the decisions that they made.\n\n240\n00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:47.360\nAnd so I think my job is to come in, understand my role of really defining\n\n241\n00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.080\nwhere we're going\n\n242\n00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:52.870\nand how we're going to get there as an organization through help of my board\n\n243\n00:10:52.870 --> 00:10:54.080\nthat works on setting\n\n244\n00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:55.080\nthe strategy.\n\n245\n00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:59.360\nSo then this goes back to those deep conversations with them about where they\n\n246\n00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:00.520\nthink the industry's\n\n247\n00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:04.360\ngoing, what we should be doing in order to help our members thrive.\n\n248\n00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:08.580\nAnd then it's making sure that as a team, we have a unified vision for what's\n\n249\n00:11:08.580 --> 00:11:09.160\ngoing to\n\n250\n00:11:09.160 --> 00:11:10.640\nhelp us succeed.\n\n251\n00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:13.920\nAnd when we have that vision for what's going to help us succeed, then it's a\n\n252\n00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:14.440\nmatter of\n\n253\n00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.520\nmaking sure that we're constantly all working in that same direction.\n\n254\n00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:20.360\nYou know, there's so many things that we can do.\n\n255\n00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.760\nAnd one of the things about association life or advocacy life in general is\n\n256\n00:11:24.760 --> 00:11:25.480\nthat every\n\n257\n00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:26.880\nday you make it up, right?\n\n258\n00:11:26.880 --> 00:11:30.330\nYou get to decide what I'm going to focus on today and what work we're going to\n\n259\n00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:31.160\nput priorities\n\n260\n00:11:31.160 --> 00:11:32.160\non.\n\n261\n00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:36.280\nAnd so that priority setting is really as important here.\n\n262\n00:11:36.280 --> 00:11:40.180\nI would almost argue that it's more important here than it is in other places\n\n263\n00:11:40.180 --> 00:11:40.920\nbecause it's\n\n264\n00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:43.880\nnot like you've got the orders coming in that you have to fulfill.\n\n265\n00:11:43.880 --> 00:11:47.850\nI mean, it really is thinking about what are the most important things for us\n\n266\n00:11:47.850 --> 00:11:48.480\nto be working\n\n267\n00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.640\non as an organization and then making sure we're all driving in that direction.\n\n268\n00:11:52.640 --> 00:11:57.320\nAnd so when I think about the team, it's really about whether or not the team\n\n269\n00:11:57.320 --> 00:11:58.240\nunderstands\n\n270\n00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:00.720\nand works to fulfill that vision.\n\n271\n00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:05.120\nAnd that's really the most important part of my role as a leader with a strong\n\n272\n00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.520\nteam.\n\n273\n00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:10.270\nHow did you go about developing your vision and how would you describe it for\n\n274\n00:12:10.270 --> 00:12:10.640\nus?\n\n275\n00:12:10.640 --> 00:12:15.420\nAgain, it always starts with asking lots of questions, but for me, it's\n\n276\n00:12:15.420 --> 00:12:16.280\nremembering\n\n277\n00:12:16.280 --> 00:12:20.280\nwho we are as a trade association and what's the role that we play as an\n\n278\n00:12:20.280 --> 00:12:21.400\norganization.\n\n279\n00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:26.590\nSo trade associations traditionally do, and I would say if you looked at any\n\n280\n00:12:26.590 --> 00:12:27.760\nassociation,\n\n281\n00:12:27.760 --> 00:12:33.080\nthey're always going to do a very similar combination of advocacy, member\n\n282\n00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:34.000\neducation,\n\n283\n00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:37.960\nand other communications where we're the public affairs, public relations, arm\n\n284\n00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:39.360\nof the industry.\n\n285\n00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.360\nWe do networking through our networking events, and then we do training and\n\n286\n00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:44.240\ncertification\n\n287\n00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.960\nor standard setting.\n\n288\n00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:51.740\nAnd it's within that core of our value proposition and those capabilities that\n\n289\n00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:53.160\nwe need to have.\n\n290\n00:12:53.160 --> 00:12:57.740\nIt's about figuring out what we emphasize in those areas that will really help\n\n291\n00:12:57.740 --> 00:12:58.200\nus win\n\n292\n00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:02.320\nas a trade association and how are we providing value for our members.\n\n293\n00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:08.170\nAnd so within that, it's setting those strategic pillars for what we need to\n\n294\n00:13:08.170 --> 00:13:09.560\nachieve in order\n\n295\n00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:14.450\nto win as an association and then communicating that with the members, with the\n\n296\n00:13:14.450 --> 00:13:15.080\nteam.\n\n297\n00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:20.430\nAnd all of that comes through conversations with the board leadership about\n\n298\n00:13:20.430 --> 00:13:21.400\nwhere we think\n\n299\n00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:26.030\nwe need to go, how we need to focus, and really always for associations, it's\n\n300\n00:13:26.030 --> 00:13:26.920\ncoming back\n\n301\n00:13:26.920 --> 00:13:30.560\nto that question of are we providing value to our members?\n\n302\n00:13:30.560 --> 00:13:35.040\nAre we doing the things that help them see the future?\n\n303\n00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:38.920\nAre we taking care of the issues that are keeping them up at night?\n\n304\n00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:41.880\nHow do you organize your strategic pillars?\n\n305\n00:13:41.880 --> 00:13:47.760\nSo I have strategic pillars around all of our core competencies.\n\n306\n00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:53.610\nAnd then the next level of work is really defining what are the priorities that\n\n307\n00:13:53.610 --> 00:13:54.000\nwe are\n\n308\n00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.040\ngoing to be working on from an issue perspective.\n\n309\n00:13:57.040 --> 00:14:01.560\nAnd so then within those priorities, we drill down and then we develop our\n\n310\n00:14:01.560 --> 00:14:02.600\noperating plan\n\n311\n00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:03.960\nas an organization.\n\n312\n00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:08.930\nObviously, that operating plan builds and fills out a budget, which also then\n\n313\n00:14:08.930 --> 00:14:09.440\ndrives\n\n314\n00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.280\nour key performance indicators, which are the metrics that we are measuring,\n\n315\n00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:13.840\ndetermine\n\n316\n00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:17.550\nif we're moving the needle and achieving success so that we can keep that\n\n317\n00:14:17.550 --> 00:14:18.800\naccountability loop\n\n318\n00:14:18.800 --> 00:14:19.800\ngoing.\n\n319\n00:14:19.800 --> 00:14:23.360\nYou know, I heard you say that your business strategy needs to be a living,\n\n320\n00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.120\nbreathing document.\n\n321\n00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:29.270\nWhat's your process to do that to make sure it just doesn't gather dust on the\n\n322\n00:14:29.270 --> 00:14:30.000\nshelf and\n\n323\n00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.000\nkeeping it constantly in front of your people?\n\n324\n00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:38.140\nSo this is where our board comes in because we have a very large board at the\n\n325\n00:14:38.140 --> 00:14:38.880\nNational\n\n326\n00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:42.010\nRestaurant Association because remember, we have those million restaurants in\n\n327\n00:14:42.010 --> 00:14:42.560\nthe industry\n\n328\n00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:44.920\nthat we need to represent all of their interests.\n\n329\n00:14:44.920 --> 00:14:47.600\nAnd there are lots of different types of restaurants.\n\n330\n00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:51.240\nAnd so our board really reflects that broad industry.\n\n331\n00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:57.330\nAnd so the way to really get the most out of these leaders in thinking through\n\n332\n00:14:57.330 --> 00:14:58.160\nwhat that\n\n333\n00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:02.490\nvision looks like is having the conversations with them on an annual basis at\n\n334\n00:15:02.490 --> 00:15:03.160\nour winter\n\n335\n00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:06.800\nmeeting talking about, you know, what do we see happening in the next three to\n\n336\n00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:07.720\nfive years?\n\n337\n00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:10.960\nWhat are the big issues that are going to be driving the industry?\n\n338\n00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:11.960\nWhat's the conversation?\n\n339\n00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.720\nWhat's going to be keeping us up at night three to five years from now?\n\n340\n00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:18.910\nAnd then once we find, if you think about kind of a Venn diagram of the overlap\n\n341\n00:15:18.910 --> 00:15:19.400\n, once\n\n342\n00:15:19.400 --> 00:15:25.200\nwe find that commonality and the intensity around specific issues, it's then\n\n343\n00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:25.920\ndriving\n\n344\n00:15:25.920 --> 00:15:26.920\ndown.\n\n345\n00:15:26.920 --> 00:15:29.860\nIf these are the big things that are driving the industry and keeping us up at\n\n346\n00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:30.320\nnight, what\n\n347\n00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:34.430\nare the things that we should be doing and talking about as an organization so\n\n348\n00:15:34.430 --> 00:15:34.680\nthat our\n\n349\n00:15:34.680 --> 00:15:37.160\nmembers are ready to meet those needs?\n\n350\n00:15:37.160 --> 00:15:43.210\nSo it is really building that kind of strategic vision on the most important\n\n351\n00:15:43.210 --> 00:15:44.360\ntopics for us\n\n352\n00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:49.810\nto discuss with the full board through a number of smaller group conversations\n\n353\n00:15:49.810 --> 00:15:50.560\nthat then come\n\n354\n00:15:50.560 --> 00:15:53.040\nback together to paint a bigger picture.\n\n355\n00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:59.870\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Michelle Korsmoe in just a\n\n356\n00:15:59.870 --> 00:16:00.960\nmoment.\n\n357\n00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.420\nAnother good leader who understands the importance of listening is NFL\n\n358\n00:16:04.420 --> 00:16:06.680\nCommissioner Roger Goodell.\n\n359\n00:16:06.680 --> 00:16:11.230\nIt's key to building relationships, but it's also a big part of how you make\n\n360\n00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:12.560\nsmart decisions.\n\n361\n00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:17.440\nListing is a really undervalued quality when it comes to leadership.\n\n362\n00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.420\nPeople like to think it's, people come in and give you three choices and you\n\n363\n00:16:20.420 --> 00:16:20.960\nselect the\n\n364\n00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:22.280\none you go.\n\n365\n00:16:22.280 --> 00:16:23.280\nYou have to listen first.\n\n366\n00:16:23.280 --> 00:16:25.360\nYou have to understand, you have to do the analysis.\n\n367\n00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:30.640\nYou have to make sure you understand the consequences and the impact.\n\n368\n00:16:30.640 --> 00:16:33.360\nAnd sometimes the timing of your decision is more important.\n\n369\n00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.380\nA lot of people feel like to show leadership, they have to make their decision\n\n370\n00:16:37.380 --> 00:16:37.760\nquick.\n\n371\n00:16:37.760 --> 00:16:42.840\nI argue you make a decision when you have as much data as you possibly can.\n\n372\n00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:47.450\nWe would all love to have all the data that shows a clear answer, but most of\n\n373\n00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:48.040\nthe time\n\n374\n00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:52.280\nas you know as CEOs or leaders, you live in the gray matter.\n\n375\n00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:53.280\nIt's not always clear.\n\n376\n00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:54.280\nIt's not white or black.\n\n377\n00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:58.940\nAnd you have to make judgments about how to balance information, how to weigh\n\n378\n00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:00.040\ninformation,\n\n379\n00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:03.560\nhow to understand the consequences and make decisions from there.\n\n380\n00:17:03.560 --> 00:17:08.280\nRoger's episode is absolutely chock full of great insights like these.\n\n381\n00:17:08.280 --> 00:17:19.600\nCheck out our full conversation, episode 99 here on How Leaders Lead.\n\n382\n00:17:19.600 --> 00:17:22.960\nHow many people do you have on the board, Michelle?\n\n383\n00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.560\nAll in with our past chairman and our maritime.\n\n384\n00:17:25.560 --> 00:17:26.560\nWe have about 120.\n\n385\n00:17:26.560 --> 00:17:29.920\nSo you have 120 people on your board.\n\n386\n00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:30.920\nHow do you manage that?\n\n387\n00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:35.640\nI mean, that seems just like an overwhelming number of people to have as your\n\n388\n00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:36.360\nboard.\n\n389\n00:17:36.360 --> 00:17:37.360\nIt is.\n\n390\n00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:41.320\nI think it's not managing as much as it's engaging, right?\n\n391\n00:17:41.320 --> 00:17:44.770\nBecause everybody that's on the board of the National Restaurant Association is\n\n392\n00:17:44.770 --> 00:17:45.080\nthere\n\n393\n00:17:45.080 --> 00:17:47.600\nbecause they've done something really remarkable.\n\n394\n00:17:47.600 --> 00:17:51.120\nThey've been a leader, they've given back, they have something to offer.\n\n395\n00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:56.000\nAnd I think the most important thing for me in my position is how do I engage\n\n396\n00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:56.520\neach of\n\n397\n00:17:56.520 --> 00:17:57.520\nthem?\n\n398\n00:17:57.520 --> 00:18:02.760\nI'm figuring out how we use that nugget of wisdom and that leadership to help\n\n399\n00:18:02.760 --> 00:18:03.520\nthe industry\n\n400\n00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:04.520\nbe stronger.\n\n401\n00:18:04.520 --> 00:18:10.920\nAnd so that's really where I like breaking down into the smaller conversations.\n\n402\n00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.330\nAnd this is a structure that we've had as an association was set up in the past\n\n403\n00:18:15.330 --> 00:18:15.360\nwhere\n\n404\n00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:19.990\nwe break up into categories where people get together based off of the type of\n\n405\n00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:20.800\nbusinesses\n\n406\n00:18:20.800 --> 00:18:22.160\nthat they're leading.\n\n407\n00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:26.910\nAnd so then those categories meet, talk about the things that are pressing in\n\n408\n00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:27.680\ntheir area\n\n409\n00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:28.680\nof interest.\n\n410\n00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:30.560\nAnd then we pull that conversation back together.\n\n411\n00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:33.560\nNow you're dealing with Washington DC all the time.\n\n412\n00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:36.520\nYou're meeting with the government officials.\n\n413\n00:18:36.520 --> 00:18:38.920\nWhat's the key to making that work for you guys?\n\n414\n00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.400\nI mean, how do you really get things done in Washington?\n\n415\n00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:45.280\nWell, I was just up on the Hill today.\n\n416\n00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:49.760\nAnd this is a day where the conversation is all about whether or not they'll be\n\n417\n00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:50.480\nable to\n\n418\n00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:54.280\ncome to an agreement to fund the government for the next fiscal year.\n\n419\n00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:58.830\nAnd so the idea of figuring out how to get Washington to come together to do\n\n420\n00:18:58.830 --> 00:18:59.560\nsomething\n\n421\n00:18:59.560 --> 00:19:02.600\nis fascinating because we're not really in that place.\n\n422\n00:19:02.600 --> 00:19:08.150\nBut I think that the most important thing with advocating in DC has continued\n\n423\n00:19:08.150 --> 00:19:08.680\nto be the\n\n424\n00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.000\nmost important thing for generations.\n\n425\n00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:17.000\nAnd that's the engagement of constituents with their elected officials.\n\n426\n00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.960\nSo for us, we do a lot of what we call shoe leather work where you're wearing\n\n427\n00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:22.600\nout shoe\n\n428\n00:19:22.600 --> 00:19:26.960\nleather walking around the halls, going to have meetings, and having\n\n429\n00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:28.120\nconversations and\n\n430\n00:19:28.120 --> 00:19:29.120\nquestions.\n\n431\n00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:33.080\nAnd often it's staff to staff to talk about the details, but figuring out what\n\n432\n00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:33.840\na particular\n\n433\n00:19:33.840 --> 00:19:37.120\nmember of Congress cares about and obviously spreading the message about what's\n\n434\n00:19:37.120 --> 00:19:37.680\nimportant\n\n435\n00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:38.840\nto us.\n\n436\n00:19:38.840 --> 00:19:42.330\nAnd while we do that shoe leather work that's important, what it's really about\n\n437\n00:19:42.330 --> 00:19:42.960\nis gathering\n\n438\n00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.000\nthe information so that we can then come back to our members with a strategy of\n\n439\n00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.320\nhow we\n\n440\n00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:53.640\nengage and deploy them on particular issues in a way that's really effective.\n\n441\n00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:55.720\nSo it's always working to build relationships.\n\n442\n00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.300\nIt's making sure that our members of Congress know and are visiting our\n\n443\n00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:01.880\nrestaurant operators\n\n444\n00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:03.840\nin their district on a regular basis.\n\n445\n00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:06.160\nAnd as you said, everybody has to eat.\n\n446\n00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.280\nAnd so that's an easy thing to do.\n\n447\n00:20:08.280 --> 00:20:11.080\nEvery member of Congress has a favorite restaurant.\n\n448\n00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:14.430\nAnd it's so nice that they know and have wonderful relationships with our\n\n449\n00:20:14.430 --> 00:20:16.080\nrestaurant operators.\n\n450\n00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:20.190\nBut the most important thing then is after we've built that relationship,\n\n451\n00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:20.680\nmaking sure\n\n452\n00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:26.310\nthat we're deploying those asks at exactly the right time and for exactly the\n\n453\n00:20:26.310 --> 00:20:27.960\nright thing.\n\n454\n00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.080\nBecause they need to feel the intensity.\n\n455\n00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:35.040\nThey need to feel the pressure from our members about why issues are important.\n\n456\n00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:39.840\nWhat would be your top three issues that you're really advocating for?\n\n457\n00:20:39.840 --> 00:20:43.080\nAny issues for us center around workforce?\n\n458\n00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:47.260\nAnd we're not different than almost any other industry that's out there right\n\n459\n00:20:47.260 --> 00:20:47.720\nnow.\n\n460\n00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:51.090\nIt's trying to figure out how we can continue to build a stronger workforce,\n\n461\n00:20:51.090 --> 00:20:51.600\nhow we can\n\n462\n00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:56.080\nget more people back in the workforce than have been in the workforce.\n\n463\n00:20:56.080 --> 00:21:01.900\nAnd of course, with that comes issues of work visas and also immigration reform\n\n464\n00:21:01.900 --> 00:21:02.040\n.\n\n465\n00:21:02.040 --> 00:21:06.100\nAnd these are really frustrating issues for us to talk about with members of\n\n466\n00:21:06.100 --> 00:21:06.680\nCongress\n\n467\n00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:12.030\nbecause there hasn't been a lot of movement in this area, as we all know, for a\n\n468\n00:21:12.030 --> 00:21:12.200\nlong\n\n469\n00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:13.880\ntime and there needs to be.\n\n470\n00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:17.800\nBecause we definitely have a crisis on our hands in this country.\n\n471\n00:21:17.800 --> 00:21:22.910\nYou know, I was watching the TV screens as I was up on the hill with the juxtap\n\n472\n00:21:22.910 --> 00:21:23.600\nosition\n\n473\n00:21:23.600 --> 00:21:27.600\nof the president up at the UN giving a speech.\n\n474\n00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:32.240\nAnd of course, what's happening with people seeking a better life in this\n\n475\n00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:33.120\ncountry that\n\n476\n00:21:33.120 --> 00:21:35.000\nare coming across our borders.\n\n477\n00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.240\nAnd there needs to be a space for us to all understand that everybody is\n\n478\n00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:40.520\nconcerned about\n\n479\n00:21:40.520 --> 00:21:42.960\nsomething slightly different in this space.\n\n480\n00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.750\nBut we can do something on issues like securing the border and issues like\n\n481\n00:21:48.750 --> 00:21:50.040\nmaking sure everybody\n\n482\n00:21:50.040 --> 00:21:53.920\nhas documentation and is legally in a system.\n\n483\n00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:58.350\nAnd how do we do that so that we can get people documentation and in a\n\n484\n00:21:58.350 --> 00:21:59.320\nworkforce in\n\n485\n00:21:59.320 --> 00:22:00.760\na really productive way?\n\n486\n00:22:00.760 --> 00:22:03.480\nBecause we need the workers, just like so many others.\n\n487\n00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.520\nWhat's the biggest perception the industry has to overcome?\n\n488\n00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:11.520\nI think the biggest perception the industry has to overcome is that these are\n\n489\n00:22:11.520 --> 00:22:12.160\ntemporary\n\n490\n00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.480\njobs or jobs that you take while you're waiting for something else to work out.\n\n491\n00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:21.890\nYou know, it's fascinating to me as I meet so many wonderful, wonderful people\n\n492\n00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:22.360\nin this\n\n493\n00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:29.990\nindustry that have amazing stories about how they created an entire life\n\n494\n00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:31.680\nbusiness and\n\n495\n00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:36.900\ncommunity based off of the restaurants that they started working in or the\n\n496\n00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:37.800\nrestaurants\n\n497\n00:22:37.800 --> 00:22:41.600\nthat they eventually opened for themselves and what they did.\n\n498\n00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:46.600\nAnd I think a lot of people think that these jobs are not like a job of choice.\n\n499\n00:22:46.600 --> 00:22:50.130\nAnd there are so many wonderful things about work in the restaurant industry\n\n500\n00:22:50.130 --> 00:22:50.760\nthat really\n\n501\n00:22:50.760 --> 00:22:53.040\ngive people a lot of joy.\n\n502\n00:22:53.040 --> 00:22:58.840\nI had a great opportunity to be eating at a newly opened restaurant in Chicago.\n\n503\n00:22:58.840 --> 00:23:04.850\nAnd it was one where some of my fellow restaurant association executives and I\n\n504\n00:23:04.850 --> 00:23:05.840\njust went to\n\n505\n00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:08.160\nin an evening after a long day of meetings.\n\n506\n00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.980\nAnd we sat down and were chatting and the manager comes up to check and see how\n\n507\n00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:12.600\nthe lighting\n\n508\n00:23:12.600 --> 00:23:14.680\nwas at our table because as I said, they were brand new.\n\n509\n00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:16.720\nI think they'd maybe been open for a month.\n\n510\n00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:20.130\nAnd so we started asking him questions about the restaurant and the opening and\n\n511\n00:23:20.130 --> 00:23:20.600\nhow busy\n\n512\n00:23:20.600 --> 00:23:23.980\nthey were and what was going on with the workforce and probably more detail\n\n513\n00:23:23.980 --> 00:23:24.880\nthan he normally\n\n514\n00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.880\ngets.\n\n515\n00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:28.400\nSo he did ask us, \"So what do you do?\"\n\n516\n00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:29.720\nWondering why we were so curious.\n\n517\n00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:34.550\nAnd so we confessed that we were all running different restaurant associations,\n\n518\n00:23:34.550 --> 00:23:35.160\nthe state\n\n519\n00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:37.240\nassociations and then me with the national association.\n\n520\n00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:38.640\nAnd he was like, \"Oh, wow.\"\n\n521\n00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.080\nAnd he was kind of thrown back by the team at the table.\n\n522\n00:23:43.080 --> 00:23:44.280\nAnd so we asked him his story.\n\n523\n00:23:44.280 --> 00:23:48.060\nYou know, how did you get to be the general manager of this beautiful\n\n524\n00:23:48.060 --> 00:23:49.000\nrestaurant?\n\n525\n00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.200\nAnd he said that he had worked in a restaurant group for years and loved the\n\n526\n00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:53.760\nwork and been\n\n527\n00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:58.170\nvery successful, but he decided it was time for him to get his real job in\n\n528\n00:23:58.170 --> 00:23:58.680\nmarketing.\n\n529\n00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:00.640\nYou know, you've gotten a degree in marketing.\n\n530\n00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:02.200\nAnd so he decided, \"Oh, I've got this degree.\n\n531\n00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:03.680\nI should work in marketing.\"\n\n532\n00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:08.480\nAnd he was there for a few years and didn't really love it and got called by\n\n533\n00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:09.320\nhis former\n\n534\n00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:11.990\ncolleagues who were starting this new restaurant and said, \"We'd love to have\n\n535\n00:24:11.990 --> 00:24:12.480\nyou come and\n\n536\n00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:13.480\nopen up this restaurant.\"\n\n537\n00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:15.400\nAnd he jumped at the chance.\n\n538\n00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:17.000\nAnd I said, \"What was it?\n\n539\n00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:18.000\nWhat's different?\n\n540\n00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.280\nWhy is it that you didn't really love that job?\n\n541\n00:24:20.280 --> 00:24:22.080\nAnd what is it you love about this job?\"\n\n542\n00:24:22.080 --> 00:24:27.090\nHe said it was really all about the immediate satisfaction he had from solving\n\n543\n00:24:27.090 --> 00:24:27.960\nproblems in\n\n544\n00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:28.960\nthe restaurant.\n\n545\n00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.650\nHe said, \"You know, for his marketing work, he was mostly consulting and so\n\n546\n00:24:31.650 --> 00:24:31.920\nthey would\n\n547\n00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:36.010\ndo this work for clients and they'd send it off and it would be months usually\n\n548\n00:24:36.010 --> 00:24:36.560\nbetween\n\n549\n00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:39.600\nwhen they did the work and when they actually saw some kind of result.\n\n550\n00:24:39.600 --> 00:24:43.110\nWhereas in a restaurant, every day he was helping his team members solve\n\n551\n00:24:43.110 --> 00:24:43.840\nproblems.\n\n552\n00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:45.200\nHe was solving problems for guests.\n\n553\n00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:46.880\nHe was making things happen.\n\n554\n00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.880\nAnd it was that connectedness with the people he was serving that was really so\n\n555\n00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.680\nrewarding.\n\n556\n00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.760\nAnd I think that's the story that everybody needs to understand about life in\n\n557\n00:24:54.760 --> 00:24:55.520\nthe restaurant\n\n558\n00:24:55.520 --> 00:24:56.520\nindustry.\n\n559\n00:24:56.520 --> 00:24:57.800\nI agree with you.\n\n560\n00:24:57.800 --> 00:25:03.490\nAnd looking back, Michelle, what's the story of where you placed a big bet\n\n561\n00:25:03.490 --> 00:25:04.160\nthinking that\n\n562\n00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:09.040\nyour business needed to head in a particular direction and you were right?\n\n563\n00:25:09.040 --> 00:25:14.770\nA great way that I think about taking a big bet where we were right was when I\n\n564\n00:25:14.770 --> 00:25:15.360\nwas at\n\n565\n00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:19.590\nthe Wine and Spirits wholesalers of America, there was always the sense that we\n\n566\n00:25:19.590 --> 00:25:20.800\nwere a national\n\n567\n00:25:20.800 --> 00:25:23.760\norganization that should be focused on national policy.\n\n568\n00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:28.150\nBut so much of that industry is really about what's happening in the states\n\n569\n00:25:28.150 --> 00:25:28.600\nbecause we're\n\n570\n00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:30.000\nstate regulated.\n\n571\n00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.690\nAnd one of the things that's important for national associations is to really\n\n572\n00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:34.160\nbalance\n\n573\n00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:39.320\nthe relationship that we have with our state association partners.\n\n574\n00:25:39.320 --> 00:25:44.260\nAnd at the Wine and Spirits wholesalers of America, we spent a lot of time\n\n575\n00:25:44.260 --> 00:25:45.200\nconvincing\n\n576\n00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:51.450\nour board that we needed to invest in more of our team members, adding new\n\n577\n00:25:51.450 --> 00:25:52.760\nstaff focused\n\n578\n00:25:52.760 --> 00:25:54.920\non state advocacy.\n\n579\n00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:59.060\nAnd this was a place that we had started a few years back really increasing\n\n580\n00:25:59.060 --> 00:26:00.200\nthat emphasis,\n\n581\n00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:04.150\nbut we needed to really double down on that and make sure that we had full\n\n582\n00:26:04.150 --> 00:26:04.840\ncoverage of\n\n583\n00:26:04.840 --> 00:26:08.020\nrelationships with all of the states so that people could have deeper\n\n584\n00:26:08.020 --> 00:26:08.960\nrelationships.\n\n585\n00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:11.680\nAnd we did this right before the pandemic started.\n\n586\n00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:16.410\nAnd then of course leading into the pandemic, all of the rules and regulations\n\n587\n00:26:16.410 --> 00:26:17.320\non the ground\n\n588\n00:26:17.320 --> 00:26:23.380\nabout how alcohol was distributed and about what was happening for the sale of\n\n589\n00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:24.520\nthose products\n\n590\n00:26:24.520 --> 00:26:30.140\nwas really being looked at under a microscope and to have a team that was fully\n\n591\n00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:30.880\nengaged\n\n592\n00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:34.620\nand deployed with the state associations and so that we could all share\n\n593\n00:26:34.620 --> 00:26:35.520\ninformation and\n\n594\n00:26:35.520 --> 00:26:37.720\nmake better decisions was really effective.\n\n595\n00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.640\nAnd so that was a nice big bet that paid off really well.\n\n596\n00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.400\nNow, have you ever made a big bet thinking that you really had to make a big\n\n597\n00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:45.960\nchange in\n\n598\n00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.960\none way or another and you were wrong?\n\n599\n00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:56.250\nWhat I found over time when I make wrong decisions and I do as we all do, the\n\n600\n00:26:56.250 --> 00:26:57.720\nbest thing to do\n\n601\n00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:03.050\nis always to really focus in on the fact that that decision was wrong and then\n\n602\n00:27:03.050 --> 00:27:03.720\nto pivot\n\n603\n00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:08.520\nand figure out what the right decision is and change and go in that direction.\n\n604\n00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:13.250\nBecause what I found is especially in my work in advocacy, making the wrong\n\n605\n00:27:13.250 --> 00:27:14.240\ndecision isn't\n\n606\n00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.400\nfatal but not doing something about it could be.\n\n607\n00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:23.480\nAnd so I think that for me, I have three young girls and I've spent a lot of\n\n608\n00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:24.600\ntime watching\n\n609\n00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:28.240\nreally interesting kids programs including the Magic School Bus.\n\n610\n00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.560\nAnd for anybody that's a fan of Ms. Frizzle on the Magic School Bus, they've\n\n611\n00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:32.120\nheard her\n\n612\n00:27:32.120 --> 00:27:36.360\nsay, \"Take chances, get messy, make mistakes.\"\n\n613\n00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:41.680\nAnd I've always thought that that really should be a great mantra for everyone.\n\n614\n00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:47.070\nAnd so when you go out there and make big bets and it doesn't work, I think it\n\n615\n00:27:47.070 --> 00:27:47.960\n's really\n\n616\n00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:53.440\nlearning what was it that doesn't work and being honest about what didn't work.\n\n617\n00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:57.870\nAnd a lot of times there's some ego involved in some assumptions that were made\n\n618\n00:27:57.870 --> 00:27:58.440\nand being\n\n619\n00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:00.280\nhonest about that.\n\n620\n00:28:00.280 --> 00:28:05.150\nAnd then using that to change how you make future decisions is really the most\n\n621\n00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:05.920\nimportant\n\n622\n00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:06.920\nthing.\n\n623\n00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:14.040\nHey everyone, it's Kula, co-host of Three More Questions.\n\n624\n00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:17.200\nAnd I have some exciting news to share with you.\n\n625\n00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.610\nWe just launched a breakthrough app that will help you become a better leader\n\n626\n00:28:20.610 --> 00:28:21.240\nin less than\n\n627\n00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:22.880\ntwo minutes a day.\n\n628\n00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:24.680\nIt's called How Leaders Lead.\n\n629\n00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:28.320\nAs you know on the podcast, David spends about an hour each week interviewing\n\n630\n00:28:28.320 --> 00:28:28.880\nsome of the\n\n631\n00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:30.840\ntop leaders in the world.\n\n632\n00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:34.800\nPeople like Tom Brady, Condoleezza Rice, and Jamie Dimon.\n\n633\n00:28:34.800 --> 00:28:38.560\nBut we know that leaders like yourself are pressed for time.\n\n634\n00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:42.880\nSo we've taken the very best clips from these conversations and put them into\n\n635\n00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:43.520\nan easy to\n\n636\n00:28:43.520 --> 00:28:48.040\nuse mobile app that you can learn from in less than two minutes a day.\n\n637\n00:28:48.040 --> 00:28:51.490\nIf you want to become a better leader, start a daily leadership habit with the\n\n638\n00:28:51.490 --> 00:28:52.080\nHow Leaders\n\n639\n00:28:52.080 --> 00:28:53.360\nLead app.\n\n640\n00:28:53.360 --> 00:28:56.440\nIt's available now for free in the App Store.\n\n641\n00:28:56.440 --> 00:28:57.040\nDownload it today.\n\n642\n00:28:57.040 --> 00:29:07.800\nI know in the association business and you're the expert.\n\n643\n00:29:07.800 --> 00:29:08.800\nI'm not.\n\n644\n00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:14.240\nBut I've heard some say you should never get too far ahead of your members.\n\n645\n00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:18.320\nWhat's the risk of being too far out ahead as a leader?\n\n646\n00:29:18.320 --> 00:29:19.960\nYou might be wrong, right?\n\n647\n00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.130\nThere's a lot of ego in thinking that you can be too far out ahead of your\n\n648\n00:29:23.130 --> 00:29:23.800\nmembers.\n\n649\n00:29:23.800 --> 00:29:29.660\nIn this business of trade associations and advocacy work, we're not able to\n\n650\n00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:30.560\ntruly have\n\n651\n00:29:30.560 --> 00:29:34.640\nall of the knowledge about why businesses are making the decisions that they're\n\n652\n00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:35.080\nmaking\n\n653\n00:29:35.080 --> 00:29:38.520\nor how one particular policy will impact them.\n\n654\n00:29:38.520 --> 00:29:39.760\nWe can do the modeling.\n\n655\n00:29:39.760 --> 00:29:44.200\nWe can have the anecdotal stories about what that may look like.\n\n656\n00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.770\nBut it's different than really being in the chair of the members, looking at\n\n657\n00:29:48.770 --> 00:29:49.120\nall of the\n\n658\n00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:52.000\ninformation in their businesses and making those decisions.\n\n659\n00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.580\nAnd so the nice thing about being one step ahead of your members is it means\n\n660\n00:29:56.580 --> 00:29:57.240\nthat you're\n\n661\n00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:02.000\nactively thinking about where the industry's going, what you should be focused\n\n662\n00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:02.400\non.\n\n663\n00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.640\nIt's really leadership, right?\n\n664\n00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.770\nWhat you should be talking about, where you want them to start driving that\n\n665\n00:30:07.770 --> 00:30:08.640\nconversation\n\n666\n00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.960\nand providing feedback and guidance.\n\n667\n00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:15.000\nIf you're two steps ahead, you're too disconnected from what they're actually\n\n668\n00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:16.760\nthinking and doing.\n\n669\n00:30:16.760 --> 00:30:19.990\nAnd that's really what that statement is all about is making sure that you're\n\n670\n00:30:19.990 --> 00:30:20.400\nalways\n\n671\n00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:23.800\nconnected with what's on their minds.\n\n672\n00:30:23.800 --> 00:30:30.190\nYou obviously are constantly looking out and trying to improve the restaurant\n\n673\n00:30:30.190 --> 00:30:31.000\nbusiness\n\n674\n00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.680\nand the other associations that you've worked with.\n\n675\n00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.760\nBut how do you go about sharpening your own acts?\n\n676\n00:30:35.760 --> 00:30:38.240\nI mean, what do you do to get better yourself?\n\n677\n00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:42.000\nWell, I listen to podcasts, David, like yours.\n\n678\n00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:45.280\nI chuckle about that, but I actually do listen to a lot of podcasts.\n\n679\n00:30:45.280 --> 00:30:48.760\nI love listening to podcasts when I'm coming in to work in the morning.\n\n680\n00:30:48.760 --> 00:30:53.730\nI love listening to business podcasts, strategy podcasts, because it's a great\n\n681\n00:30:53.730 --> 00:30:54.640\nway to really\n\n682\n00:30:54.640 --> 00:31:00.280\nget my mind warmed up for the work that I'm about to do that day.\n\n683\n00:31:00.280 --> 00:31:04.550\nAs always, it's a lot of reading, kind of what's happening in the industry,\n\n684\n00:31:04.550 --> 00:31:06.000\nwhat's happening.\n\n685\n00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:09.740\nI always just a personal interest go back to all kinds of strategy books,\n\n686\n00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:10.320\nleadership,\n\n687\n00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:12.000\norganizational health books.\n\n688\n00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:16.420\nI've read books about many of your podcast guests who are tremendous examples\n\n689\n00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:17.160\nof leaders\n\n690\n00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.640\nand leadership.\n\n691\n00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.780\nI think over the years I've found with the books that I've read, often it's\n\n692\n00:31:22.780 --> 00:31:23.360\ntempting to\n\n693\n00:31:23.360 --> 00:31:25.520\nsay, \"Ooh, let's completely follow this.\n\n694\n00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:28.720\nLet's completely shift course and go in this direction.\"\n\n695\n00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:34.870\nFor me, I think what I've determined works best is to figure out that nugget of\n\n696\n00:31:34.870 --> 00:31:35.640\ninsight\n\n697\n00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:39.440\nthat could apply to what I'm already doing to tweak it to make it just a little\n\n698\n00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.360\nbit better.\n\n699\n00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:46.210\nI think that in everything that we do as leaders, we're always thinking about\n\n700\n00:31:46.210 --> 00:31:46.720\nhow can\n\n701\n00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:51.320\nI learn from others who are doing things really well and then apply that in my\n\n702\n00:31:51.320 --> 00:31:52.760\nown situation\n\n703\n00:31:52.760 --> 00:31:56.240\nso that I can be a stronger leader.\n\n704\n00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.820\nFinding the time to listen to others, what other people are doing, and then\n\n705\n00:31:59.820 --> 00:32:00.800\npulling in\n\n706\n00:32:00.800 --> 00:32:04.210\na little improvement here and a little improvement there, I think over time is\n\n707\n00:32:04.210 --> 00:32:05.600\nreally good, much\n\n708\n00:32:05.600 --> 00:32:11.050\nbetter than switching philosophies mid-course and bouncing from one direction\n\n709\n00:32:11.050 --> 00:32:12.080\nto another.\n\n710\n00:32:12.080 --> 00:32:15.980\nTell us a story about what you think is maybe the biggest leadership lesson you\n\n711\n00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:16.440\n've ever\n\n712\n00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:17.440\nlearned.\n\n713\n00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:21.360\nThere's so many, it's hard to know exactly what's the biggest, but one that I\n\n714\n00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:21.960\nremember\n\n715\n00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:27.020\nvery distinctly is you're having me go back and think about how I was when I\n\n716\n00:32:27.020 --> 00:32:28.120\nfirst started\n\n717\n00:32:28.120 --> 00:32:30.720\nleading as a CEO of a trade association.\n\n718\n00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.570\nI had come in being the number two in an organization and then the board hired\n\n719\n00:32:35.570 --> 00:32:37.800\nme to be the CEO.\n\n720\n00:32:37.800 --> 00:32:42.920\nI found at the beginning that what I did was almost switch chairs.\n\n721\n00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:44.440\nI'd moved offices.\n\n722\n00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:46.840\nI was in a different seat.\n\n723\n00:32:46.840 --> 00:32:52.420\nI switched chairs and had a new title, but I hadn't actually switched roles in\n\n724\n00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:53.840\nmy head.\n\n725\n00:32:53.840 --> 00:32:58.650\nThe biggest lesson for me being a leader is understanding the importance of\n\n726\n00:32:58.650 --> 00:32:59.440\nletting go\n\n727\n00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:05.310\nof my old job and responsibilities and really putting on the hat that was my\n\n728\n00:33:05.310 --> 00:33:06.160\nnew job in\n\n729\n00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:11.430\nthinking about the strategy, the direction of the organization, helping the\n\n730\n00:33:11.430 --> 00:33:12.320\nteam be really\n\n731\n00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:16.880\ngood at what they needed to do, ensuring that they all had the tools and\n\n732\n00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:17.880\nresources they\n\n733\n00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:19.840\nneeded to succeed.\n\n734\n00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:25.720\nThat switch to a different role in the CEO position was a really important one\n\n735\n00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:26.400\nfor me.\n\n736\n00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:31.850\nI think about that at different times of what's the role that I really need to\n\n737\n00:33:31.850 --> 00:33:32.560\nplay in this\n\n738\n00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:36.310\njob and what's the role that other people play and how do I help them do that\n\n739\n00:33:36.310 --> 00:33:36.960\nbetter?\n\n740\n00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:40.080\nMichelle, this has been so much fun and I want to have some more with my\n\n741\n00:33:40.080 --> 00:33:40.960\nlightning round\n\n742\n00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:41.960\nof questions.\n\n743\n00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:43.200\nAre you ready for this?\n\n744\n00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.760\nAll right, here we go.\n\n745\n00:33:44.760 --> 00:33:48.840\nWhat's one word others would use to best describe you?\n\n746\n00:33:48.840 --> 00:33:50.160\nLoyal.\n\n747\n00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.560\nWhat would you say is the one word that best describes you?\n\n748\n00:33:53.560 --> 00:33:54.960\nCurious.\n\n749\n00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:57.080\nWho would play you in a movie?\n\n750\n00:33:57.080 --> 00:34:01.560\nI think it's between Katherine O'Hara and Lauren Graham because people always\n\n751\n00:34:01.560 --> 00:34:01.960\nsay I\n\n752\n00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:06.360\nremind them of either of those two and what's striking to me is people always\n\n753\n00:34:06.360 --> 00:34:07.080\nsay I remind\n\n754\n00:34:07.080 --> 00:34:09.280\nthem of the mom character.\n\n755\n00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:12.320\nAnd that's a home alone mom, right?\n\n756\n00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:16.880\nYeah, the home alone mom and the mom from Gilmore Girls.\n\n757\n00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.480\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be?\n\n758\n00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.160\nI don't want to be anybody but myself.\n\n759\n00:34:22.160 --> 00:34:23.800\nOh, come on.\n\n760\n00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:27.720\nI think it's hard.\n\n761\n00:34:27.720 --> 00:34:28.960\nI like being myself.\n\n762\n00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:29.960\nAll right.\n\n763\n00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:31.800\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n764\n00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:35.160\nMy biggest pet peeve is people who say that's not my job.\n\n765\n00:34:35.160 --> 00:34:38.040\nWhat's something that brings you extreme joy?\n\n766\n00:34:38.040 --> 00:34:40.520\nMy family brings me extreme joy.\n\n767\n00:34:40.520 --> 00:34:44.560\nWhat's something about North Dakota you'd only know if you live there?\n\n768\n00:34:44.560 --> 00:34:49.160\nThere's something beautiful about being able to see for miles.\n\n769\n00:34:49.160 --> 00:34:51.920\nWhat's your favorite restaurant in the world?\n\n770\n00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:58.320\nThis is tough to ask somebody that represents so many fabulous restaurants.\n\n771\n00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.960\nI don't know that I have a favorite in the world.\n\n772\n00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.480\nI have favorite in locations.\n\n773\n00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:07.200\nI kind of hate to go down that path, but I'll give a shout out to my friends at\n\n774\n00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:07.720\nPeacock\n\n775\n00:35:07.720 --> 00:35:10.640\nCafe in Washington, D.C.\n\n776\n00:35:10.640 --> 00:35:14.200\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n777\n00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:15.680\nPodcasts.\n\n778\n00:35:15.680 --> 00:35:18.240\nWhat's something about you a few people would know?\n\n779\n00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:21.000\nWell, most people don't realize I know how to drive a tractor.\n\n780\n00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:25.280\nAt least I knew how to drive a tractor before they got really technical and\n\n781\n00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:26.360\ncomplicated.\n\n782\n00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:27.360\nThat's great.\n\n783\n00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:28.360\nThat's the end of the lightning round.\n\n784\n00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:29.360\nWell done.\n\n785\n00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.870\nI like how you stuck to the fact that you wouldn't want to be anybody but\n\n786\n00:35:32.870 --> 00:35:33.640\nyourself.\n\n787\n00:35:33.640 --> 00:35:36.600\nIt's always harder to be somebody else than you think.\n\n788\n00:35:36.600 --> 00:35:40.490\nI know people like to look at someone and say, \"Oh, they've got it great in\n\n789\n00:35:40.490 --> 00:35:41.280\nthis direction\n\n790\n00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:45.080\nor another,\" but it's going to be comfortable in your own skin.\n\n791\n00:35:45.080 --> 00:35:49.960\nIf you had a wish list, what would it be for the restaurant industry?\n\n792\n00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:54.240\nHow would you like everybody in this country to support the restaurant industry\n\n793\n00:35:54.240 --> 00:35:54.240\n?\n\n794\n00:35:54.240 --> 00:35:58.390\nI'd like people to know that people that work in the restaurant industry do so\n\n795\n00:35:58.390 --> 00:35:58.920\nbecause\n\n796\n00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.040\nthey like interacting with people.\n\n797\n00:36:01.040 --> 00:36:04.830\nWhen you go to restaurants, know that the people that are serving you, the\n\n798\n00:36:04.830 --> 00:36:05.520\npeople that\n\n799\n00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:09.930\nare making those beautiful meals are doing so because they want to engage with\n\n800\n00:36:09.930 --> 00:36:10.440\nyou.\n\n801\n00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:14.980\nEngage with them and be happy and ask them a little bit about themselves and\n\n802\n00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:15.640\nknow that\n\n803\n00:36:15.640 --> 00:36:18.520\nthey're there because they want to talk to you.\n\n804\n00:36:18.520 --> 00:36:24.000\nYou've been a successful CEO for three associations.\n\n805\n00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:29.080\nWhat advice would you give female leaders on how to move up and grow into that\n\n806\n00:36:29.080 --> 00:36:30.800\nCEO role?\n\n807\n00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:36.200\nThe advice I would give to women is to say yes.\n\n808\n00:36:36.200 --> 00:36:40.930\nWhat I mean by saying yes is that often women are offered opportunities to do\n\n809\n00:36:40.930 --> 00:36:41.680\nsomething\n\n810\n00:36:41.680 --> 00:36:46.600\na little bit more or take on a new project or take on other responsibilities.\n\n811\n00:36:46.600 --> 00:36:51.000\nResearch has shown this, that women tend to pull back.\n\n812\n00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.040\nThey are concerned they're not qualified.\n\n813\n00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:57.520\nThey're concerned that they don't have the skills or expertise in order to do\n\n814\n00:36:57.520 --> 00:36:58.720\nsomething.\n\n815\n00:36:58.720 --> 00:37:03.560\nThey're reluctant to say yes because they don't know if they're up for it.\n\n816\n00:37:03.560 --> 00:37:09.060\nWhen the reality is they are up for it, they are capable and people will give\n\n817\n00:37:09.060 --> 00:37:09.800\nyou a lot\n\n818\n00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:14.360\nof space to take chances, get messy and make mistakes but you've got to get in\n\n819\n00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:14.920\nthere to\n\n820\n00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:15.920\ndo it.\n\n821\n00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:21.160\nIt's all of those different experiences that you have that will open up so many\n\n822\n00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:22.680\nother opportunities\n\n823\n00:37:22.680 --> 00:37:27.120\nand help shape you as a person and as a professional.\n\n824\n00:37:27.120 --> 00:37:30.680\nFor me, when I think about advice for women, it's always to say yes.\n\n825\n00:37:30.680 --> 00:37:33.440\nEven when your head's saying, \"Oh, I don't know.\n\n826\n00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:35.400\nI don't know if I'd be able to succeed here.\"\n\n827\n00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:36.400\nThe answer is yes.\n\n828\n00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:39.080\nYou probably will succeed and even if you fail, it's not going to be as bad as\n\n829\n00:37:39.080 --> 00:37:40.200\nyou think.\n\n830\n00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:41.400\nSo last question.\n\n831\n00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:46.750\nWhat would be the single bit advice you'd give to anybody on what they need to\n\n832\n00:37:46.750 --> 00:37:47.200\ndo to\n\n833\n00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:49.320\nbecome an outstanding leader?\n\n834\n00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.800\nI think it's having and showing a lot of grace with people.\n\n835\n00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:59.400\nI think that the most important thing to being a good leader is really knowing\n\n836\n00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:00.200\nthat people\n\n837\n00:38:00.200 --> 00:38:05.700\nare always trying to do the right thing and when it doesn't work out, giving\n\n838\n00:38:05.700 --> 00:38:06.520\nthem some\n\n839\n00:38:06.520 --> 00:38:11.330\ngrace to figure out how to make it work out and what you can do to solve those\n\n840\n00:38:11.330 --> 00:38:12.040\nproblems\n\n841\n00:38:12.040 --> 00:38:15.440\nand how you can figure out how to succeed is really important.\n\n842\n00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:18.920\nMichelle, I want to thank you so much for this conversation.\n\n843\n00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:22.640\nIt's pretty clear to me why you have been so successful.\n\n844\n00:38:22.640 --> 00:38:25.600\nAnd good luck with the National Restaurant Association.\n\n845\n00:38:25.600 --> 00:38:27.440\nYou've got a big task there.\n\n846\n00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:29.960\nIt's a tremendous group to be able to represent.\n\n847\n00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:31.520\nI'm so glad to be here.\n\n848\n00:38:31.520 --> 00:38:32.520\nThank you, David.\n\n849\n00:38:32.520 --> 00:38:40.000\nThank you for having me.\n\n850\n00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:49.160\nYou know, there's a pretty alarming stat out there from Gallup that only 32% of\n\n851\n00:38:49.160 --> 00:38:49.920\npeople\n\n852\n00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:51.760\nare engaged in their work.\n\n853\n00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.920\nThat means two out of three people aren't.\n\n854\n00:38:54.920 --> 00:38:58.360\nBut if we want more engagement from our people, believe me.\n\n855\n00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.440\nIt starts by how we engage with them.\n\n856\n00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:03.720\nAnd Michelle really shows us how to do it.\n\n857\n00:39:03.720 --> 00:39:08.050\nShe's always asking questions, being proactive and respecting what everyone\n\n858\n00:39:08.050 --> 00:39:08.960\nelse brings to\n\n859\n00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:10.320\nthe table.\n\n860\n00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.640\nShe makes it a point to draw other people out.\n\n861\n00:39:12.640 --> 00:39:16.400\nAnd when you have that kind of posture as a leader, people respond.\n\n862\n00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:17.400\nThey feel seen.\n\n863\n00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:18.400\nThey feel valued.\n\n864\n00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:22.120\nAnd they know how they fit into the bigger mission you're on.\n\n865\n00:39:22.120 --> 00:39:24.360\nThat's how you get people engaged.\n\n866\n00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:28.560\nSo this week, as you go about your meetings and conversations, try to draw\n\n867\n00:39:28.560 --> 00:39:29.360\nother people\n\n868\n00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.360\nout.\n\n869\n00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.880\nAsk about their point of view and listen to their ideas.\n\n870\n00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:37.830\nIf you want people to get more engaged with your mission, start by engaging\n\n871\n00:39:37.830 --> 00:39:39.640\nwith them first.\n\n872\n00:39:39.640 --> 00:39:41.640\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n873\n00:39:41.640 --> 00:39:46.640\nWhat we learned today is the great leaders engage people by drawing them out.\n\n874\n00:39:46.640 --> 00:39:50.920\nComing up next on How Leaders Lead is the one and only Dion Sanders.\n\n875\n00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:53.080\nHe's an NFL legend, of course.\n\n876\n00:39:53.080 --> 00:39:57.270\nAnd now he's making waves as the head football coach at the University of\n\n877\n00:39:57.270 --> 00:39:58.120\nColorado.\n\n878\n00:39:58.120 --> 00:40:02.600\nIt don't matter where you're located while you're leading.\n\n879\n00:40:02.600 --> 00:40:06.320\nYou don't have to be the one in front to lead.\n\n880\n00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:11.000\nYou don't have to be the highest paid person in the room to lead.\n\n881\n00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:15.120\nYou don't have to have the one with the most credentials to lead.\n\n882\n00:40:15.120 --> 00:40:19.320\nYou don't even need to be in the back to lead.\n\n883\n00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:26.360\nLeading is something that's innate ability that attracts people to you.\n\n884\n00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:30.500\nSo be sure to come back again next week to hear my entire conversation with\n\n885\n00:40:30.500 --> 00:40:31.520\nCoach Prime.\n\n886\n00:40:31.520 --> 00:40:35.170\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every\n\n887\n00:40:35.170 --> 00:40:35.920\nThursday you\n\n888\n00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:40.240\nget to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n889\n00:40:40.240 --> 00:40:44.450\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n890\n00:40:44.450 --> 00:40:45.280\napply to your\n\n891\n00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:49.080\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n892\n00:40:49.080 --> 00:40:59.080\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n893\n00:40:59.080 --> 00:41:09.080\n[BLANK_AUDIO]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple, you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. You know, every leader I know has big ideas, big strategies, big goals. And I bet you do too. Of course, the hard part is actually turning those big plans into reality. But the one thing I can tell you is, you sure as heck can't do it by yourself, you're gonna need to get other people on board and engaged. That's why I'm so glad you're listening to this conversation with Michelle Cosmo today. She's the president, CEO of the National Restaurant Association. And in support of the restaurant industry, she works with all kinds of people, including nearly a million restaurant tours, a huge board with over 100 members, and a little something called the United States Congress. And in all these different relationships, Michelle knows how to draw people out and really get people engaged and onboard with her strategic goals. I can't wait for you to learn just how she does. Here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Michelle Cosmo.

You took over as CEO of the National Restaurant Association in May of 2020, to give us a snapshot of the business that you run today, it's

Michelle Korsmo 1:39

an interesting time to start with the National Restaurant Association, because in you know, that time we were two years, kind of post the launch of COVID. And what that did to the industry. And so most of the industry was working to get back to business as usual, and really trying to figure out what that landscape looked like. But of course, everybody was doing so with a lot of bruises, there was a lot of pain that happened during the pandemic in the restaurant industry. And it continues to exist for, for so many companies, although what's fascinating is just when everybody was feeling like they were getting back to what they would consider business as usual, we really came into big increases in food prices, challenges with workforce shortages, trying to find workers get people back up and running, and figure out how to bring that great warm hospitality back to everybody who was so desperate to get back to restaurants. So it was a really interesting time to come into the industry. And I was so glad to be able to do so.

David Novak 2:45

You know, when you think about it, there aren't too many industries that are a part of everybody's life, like restaurants, how many restaurants are in your association, in

Michelle Korsmo 2:56

the United States, we represent nearly a million restaurants. And so if you think about that nearly a million restaurants in this country. That's an awful lot of businesses. And one of the stats that I love is the fact that nearly every county in America has at least three restaurants. And for those of us that have done a lot of travel around this beautiful country, you know that there's a lot of counties out there, where there's not a lot of population density and groups of people, but it doesn't take very many people to live in a neighborhood or an area or before they decide that it would be great to have a restaurant

David Novak 3:33

and everybody's got to eat. That's how I was running yum brands, you

Michelle Korsmo 3:36

know, yeah, that's right.

David Novak 3:38

I want to get in now you are leading as the CEO. But before I do that, I I want to start at the beginning. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today?

Michelle Korsmo 3:49

It's funny to think about how long ago childhood was I had a great childhood I grew up on a farm in North Dakota, it was a grain farm, my dad grew wheat and barley and pinto beans and soy beans. And every once in a while sunflowers, and it was really wonderful to grow up on a place where my family had lived for at that time, nearly 100 years. And so you really get a sense of longevity, you get a sense of place, and you feel really connected to the community. You know, one of the things I think about is the friends I had when I was a kid, their parents were friends with my parents and their grandparents were friends with my grandparents. And there's something really wonderful about being a part of community where you have that sense of long term relationships where you feel really a sense of responsibility to each other in a different way. And I think that that has always stayed with me when I think about who I am in my work. I always think about the fact that I'm that farm girl from North Dakota.

David Novak 4:54

You know, my grandparents lived in Meadville, Missouri and they were on a farm and I mean, it's a really tough job. I mean to be a farmer, did you get up and milk the cows and feed the chickens? Or, you know, what was your role as a young family member?

Michelle Korsmo 5:10

Oh, yes, we didn't have cows and chickens, I had rabbits. And they weren't quite as particular about being fed at exactly the same time, which was good for me. But my dad would love to have His friends call over to the house in the morning when I was supposed to be out on the tractor to see if I had gotten up and was out in the field. And they, of course, love to be able to rip me to do that. But you know, it's such an interesting business, when I think about the business that my dad and his brother had. And one of the things that is fascinating about it is, so much of your success isn't dependent upon you, right? Because it really is dependent upon the weather, it's dependent upon what's happening around the globe, when you think about your commodity prices. And what's interesting is, that's pretty similar to the business of advocacy for trade associations or being involved in politics, when you're not the elected official, you know, we don't have a vote, but we're working hard to shape that political outcome in a way that, you know, we're not in control. And it's interesting to do that kind of work when there's so much of it that's out of your control.

David Novak 6:17

Well, you certainly have an upbringing that got you ready for that, you know, and as I understand it, this is your third leadership role in the trade association, you were ahead of the American Land Title Association and CEO of the Wine and Spirits Wholesalers of America, that sounds like a fun job. And now the CEO of the National Restaurant Association, What's kept you in the association space? You must love it? I mean, what is it about it that really turns you on? So

Michelle Korsmo 6:45

I got the political bug pretty early on, and have always done some kind of work in advocacy. And one of the things that I've found really interesting about associations, which, when I think about Washington, I really think about Washington as a company town. Now there's a very active and vibrant business community in DC outside of the political space. But for the most part, DC is a company town, and associations for me, when I first came into associations was like working in a different division of the company in a place that I really felt I should learn. And what I found is, it's tremendously rewarding because of the work that you're doing for the members. You know, we all want to do work for something bigger than ourselves. And I think one of the great things about working in associations is the work that we can do to help our members see the future and understand how business is changing, and help them make decisions with the information that we can share so that their businesses can thrive. And then do that advocacy work to help their businesses thrive is just tremendously rewarding. So that is been fantastic. The other thing that's so wonderful about Association life is I spend a lot of time on the road. And for anybody that spends a lot of time on the road, you know that that's actually pretty tough, right? It can be fairly exhausting. But the nice thing for me when I'm on the road is I'm going to see members and I'm going to see them in their place of business and visit their communities. And that's always energizing, because there's so much that people are doing that really is affirming, right, this that positive affirmation of the great things that they're doing in their communities. You

David Novak 8:29

know, when you take over an association, you have to become a subject matter expert. I mean, you have to really know your industry inside and out, you know, as a leader, how do you go about learning a new industry and use the restaurant category as an example,

Michelle Korsmo 8:45

with the restaurant industry, it really is about diving deep in conversation. And I think that one of the things that is an important part of, of any work that people do is that curiosity. And for me, it's really asking a lot of questions and asking why they make decisions they make looking around what's in front of us on a business, how things are set up, how they're structured, why they structure that way, how they've made decisions to expand how they make decisions to contract their business, asking about what those challenges are, there's so much really to learn in those conversations. You know, we all want to find an answer in a book, then there are a lot of answers in a book. And I think that there is a really important balance of, you know, reading about an industry reading some of the policy rules and regulations that are so much of why people set up their businesses the way they set them up in order to make sure that they're complying with the laws. But to get deeper, right to find out that kind of second layer of why things are happening, the way they're happening and how an industry works really involves paying attention and asking a lot of questions.

David Novak 9:57

You know, you also have to go in and builds your team. And you don't get to pick your team, when you first go into place, you inherited a team, how do you go about evaluating your team and deciding who should be on it and whether you have the right people on the bus?

Michelle Korsmo 10:14

I don't know that I think of it about evaluating the team. I think for me, it's really more of defining and understanding the vision of where I think we should be going for this association. The team is strong. I think anytime you're coming into an organization at this level, you're coming into a really strong team. And it's important to remember that the leaders before you were really smart people, and they had really good reasons for making the decisions that they made. And so I think my job is to come in, understand my role of really defining where we're going, and how we're going to get there as an organization through help of my board that works on setting the strategy. So then this goes back to those deep conversations with them about where they think the industry is going, what we should be doing in order to help our members thrive. And then it's making sure that as a team, we have a unified vision for what's going to help us succeed. And when we have that vision for what's going to help us succeed, then it's a matter of making sure that we're constantly all working in that same direction. You know, there's so many things that we can do. And one of the things about Association life or advocacy life in general is that every day you make it right, you get to decide what I'm going to focus on today, and what work we're going to put priorities on. And so that priority setting is really as important here, I would almost argue that it's more important here than it is in other places, because it's not like you've got the orders coming in that you have to fulfill. I mean, it really is thinking about what are the most important things for us to be working on as an organization, and then making sure we're all driving in that direction. And so when I think about the team, it's really about whether or not the team understands and works to fulfill that vision. And that's really the most important part of my role as a leader with a strong team.

David Novak 12:04

How did you go about developing your vision? And how would you describe it for us? Again,

Michelle Korsmo 12:10

it's always starts with asking lots of questions. But for me, it's remembering who we are as a trade association, and what's the role that we play as an organization. So trade associations traditionally do. And I would say, if you looked at any association, they're always going to do a very similar combination of advocacy, member education, and other communications, where we're the public affairs, public relations arm of the industry, we do networking through our networking events, and then we do training and certification or standard setting. And it's within that core of our value proposition and those capabilities that we need to have. It's about figuring out what we emphasize in those areas that will really help us win as a trade association, and how are we providing value for our members. And so within that, it's setting those strategic pillars for what we need to achieve in order to win as an association, and then communicating that with the members with the team. And all of that comes through conversations with the board leadership about where we think we need to go how we need to focus. And really always for associations, it's coming back to that question of, are we providing value to our members? Are we doing the things that help them see the future? Are we taking care of the issues that are keeping them up at night? How

David Novak 13:38

do you organize your strategic pillars? So

Michelle Korsmo 13:41

I have strategic pillars around all of our core competencies? And then the next level of work is really defining what are the priorities that we are going to be working on from an issue perspective. And so then within those priorities, we drill down, and then we develop our operating plan as an organization, obviously, that operating plan, builds and fills out a budget, which also then drives our key performance indicators, which are the metrics that we are measuring, determine if we're moving the needle and achieving success so that we can keep that accountability loop going.

David Novak 14:19

You know, I heard you say that your your business strategy needs to be a living, breathing document. What's your process to do that to make sure it just doesn't gather dust on the shelf and keeping it constantly in front of your people?

Michelle Korsmo 14:32

So this is where our board comes in. Because we have a very large board at the National Restaurant Association, because remember, we have those million restaurants in the industry that we need to represent all of their interests, and there are lots of different types of restaurants. And so our board really reflects that broad industry. And so the way to you know, really get the most out of these leaders in thinking through what that vision looks like is having the conversation shins with them on an annual basis at our winter meeting talking about, you know, what do we see happening in the next three to five years? What are the big issues that are going to be driving the industry? What's the conversation, what's going to be keeping us up at night three to five years from now. And then once we find if you think about kind of a Venn diagram of the overlap, once we find that commonality and the intensity around specific issues, it's then driving down if these are the big things that are driving the industry and keeping us up at night, what are the things that we should be doing and talking about as an organization so that our members are ready to meet those needs. So it is really building that kind of strategic vision on the most important topics for us to discuss with the full board through a number of smaller group conversations that then come back together to paint a bigger picture.

David Novak 15:56

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Michelle Cosmo in just a moment. Another good leader who understands the importance of listening is NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is key to building relationships. But it's also a big part of how you make smart decisions.

Roger Goodell 16:12

Listening is a really undervalued quality when it comes to leadership. People like to think it's you people come in and give you three choices and you select the one you go, you have to listen, first you have to understand you have to do the analysis, you have to make sure you understand the consequences and the impact. And sometimes the timing, your decision is more important. A lot of people feel like to show leadership, they have to make their decision quick. I argue you make a decision when you have as much data as you possibly can, we would all love to have all the data that shows a clear answer. But most of the time, as you know, as CEOs, or leaders, you live in the gray matter. It's not always clear it's not white or black. And you have to make judgments about how to balance information, how to weigh information, how to understand the consequences and make decisions from there. Rogers

David Novak 17:03

episode is absolutely chock full of great insights like these, check out our full conversation episode 99 here on how leaders lead.

How many people do you have on the on the board? Michelle? All

Michelle Korsmo 17:22

in with our past chairman in our maritime, we have about 120. So

David Novak 17:27

you have 120 people on your board? How do you manage that. And that seems just like an overwhelming number of people to have as your board.

Michelle Korsmo 17:35

It is I think it's not managing as much as it's engaging, right? Because everybody that's on the board of the National Restaurant Association is there because they've done something really remarkable. They've been a leader, they've given back, they have something to offer. And I think the most important thing for me in my position is how do I engage each of them. So I'm figuring out how we use that nugget of wisdom and that leadership to help the industry be stronger. And so that's really where I like breaking down into the smaller conversations. And this is a structure that we've had as an association was set up in the past, where we break up into categories where people get together based off of the type of businesses that they're leading. And so then those categories meet, talk about the things that are pressing in their area of interest, and then we pull that conversation back together.

David Novak 18:30

Now you're dealing with Washington, DC all the time you're meeting with government officials, you know, what's the key to making that work for you guys? I mean, how do you? How do you really get things done in Washington? Well,

Michelle Korsmo 18:42

I was just up on the Hill today. And this is a day where the conversation is all about whether or not they'll be able to come to an agreement to fund the government for the next fiscal year. And so the idea of figuring out how to get Washington to come together to do something is fascinating, because we're not really in that place. But I think that the most important thing with advocating in DC has continued to be the most important thing for generations. And that's the engagement of constituents with their elected officials. So for us, you know, we do a lot of what we call shoe leather work, where you're wearing out shoe leather, walking around the halls, going to have meetings, and having conversations and questions. And often it's staff to staff to talk about the details, but figuring out what a particular member of Congress cares about and obviously spreading the message about what's important to us. And while we do that shoe leather work that's important. What it's really about is gathering the information so that we can then come back to our members with a strategy of how we engage and deploy them on particular issues in a way that's really effective. So it's always working to build relationships. It's making sure that our members of Congress know and our visit Between our restaurant operators in their district on a regular basis, and, as you said, everybody has to eat. And so that's easy thing to do, every member of Congress has a favorite restaurant. And it's so nice that they know and have wonderful relationships with our restaurant operators. But the most important thing then is after we've built that relationship, making sure that we're deploying those asks at exactly the right time, and for exactly the right thing. Because they need to feel the intensity, they need to feel the pressure from our members about why issues are important.

David Novak 20:34

What would be your top three issues that you're really advocating for big

Michelle Korsmo 20:39

issues for us centered around workforce, and we're not different than almost any other industry that's out there, right now. It's trying to figure out how we can continue to build a stronger workforce, how we can get more people back in the workforce that have been in the workforce. And of course, with that comes issues of work, visas, and also immigration reform. And these are really frustrating issues for us to talk about with members of Congress, because there hasn't been a lot of movement in this area, as we all know, for a long time. And there needs to be because we definitely have a crisis on our hands in this country, you know, was watching the TV screens as I was up on the hill with the juxtaposition of the president up at the UN giving a speech, and of course, what's happening with people seeking a better life in this country that are coming across our borders. And there needs to be a space for us to all understand that everybody is concerned about something slightly different in this space. But we can do something on issues like securing the border and issues like making sure everybody has documentation and is legally in a system. And how do we do that, so that we can get people documentation and in a workforce in a really productive way, because we need the workers, just like so many others,

David Novak 22:03

what's the biggest perception the industry has to overcome?

Michelle Korsmo 22:07

I think the biggest perception the industry has to overcome is that these are temporary jobs or jobs that you take while you're waiting for something else to work out. You know, it's fascinating to me, as I meet so many wonderful, wonderful people in this industry that have amazing stories about how they created an entire life, business, and community based off of the restaurants that they started working in, or the restaurants that they eventually opened for themselves and what they did. And I think a lot of people think that these jobs are not like a job of choice. And there are so many wonderful things about work in the restaurant industry that really give people a lot of joy. I had a great opportunity to be eating at a newly opened restaurant in Chicago. And it was one where some of my fellow Restaurant Association Executives and I just went to in an evening after a long day of meetings, and we sat down and we're chatting and the manager comes up to check and see how the lighting was at our table. Because as I said they were brand new, I think they've maybe been open for a month. And so we started asking him questions about the restaurant and the opening and how busy they were and what was going on with the workforce and probably more detail than he normally gets. And so he did ask us. So what do you do wondering why we were so curious. And so we confessed that we were all running different restaurant associations, the state associations, and then me with the National Association, and he was like, Oh, wow. And he was kind of thrown back by the team at the table. And so we asked him his story, you know, how did you get to be the general manager of this beautiful restaurant. And he said that he had worked in a restaurant group for years and love the work and been very successful. But he decided it was time for him to get his real job in marketing. And he had gotten a degree in marketing. And so he decided I've got this degree, I should work in marketing. And he was there for a few years and didn't really love it and got called by his former colleagues who were starting this new restaurant and said, we'd love to have you come and open up this restaurant, and he jumped at the chance. And I said, What was it what's different? Why is it that you didn't really love that job? And what is it you love about this job? He said, It was really all about the immediate satisfaction he had from solving problems in the restaurant. He said, You know, for his marketing work, he was mostly consulting and so they would do this work for clients, and they'd send it off and it would be months, usually between when they did the work and when they actually saw some kind of result. Whereas in a restaurant, every day, he was helping his team members solve problems. He was solving problems for guests. He was making things happen. And it was that connectedness with the people he was serving that was really so rewarding. And I think that's the story that everybody needs to understand about life in the restaurant industry.

David Novak 24:56

I agree with you and you know, looking back, Michelle, what It's a story of of where you placed a big bet, thinking that your business needed to head in a particular direction. And you were right.

Michelle Korsmo 25:08

A great way that I think about taking a big bet where we were right was when I was at the Wine and Spirits Wholesalers of America, there was always the sense that we were a national organization that should be focused on national policy. But so much of that industry is really about what's happening in the States, because we're state regulated. And one of the things that's important for national associations is to really balance the relationship that we have with our state association partners, and the wine and spirits, wholesalers of America, we spent a lot of time convincing our board that we needed to invest in more of our team members, adding new staff focused on state advocacy. And this was a place that we had started a few years back really increasing that emphasis. But we needed to really double down on that and make sure that we had full coverage of relationships with all of the states so that people could have deeper relationships. And we did this right before the pandemic started. And then of course, leading into the pandemic, all of the rules and regulations on the ground about how alcohol was distributed, and about what was happening for the sale of those products was really being looked at under a microscope, and to have a team that was fully engaged and deployed with the state associations, and so that we could all share information and make better decisions was really effective. And so that was a nice big bet that paid off really well.

David Novak 26:41

Now, have you ever made a big bet, thinking that you really had to make a big change in one way or another and you were wrong? What

Michelle Korsmo 26:48

I've found over time, when I make wrong decisions, and I do as we all do, the best thing to do is always to really focus in on the fact that that decision was wrong, and then to pivot and figure out what the right decision is, and change and go in that direction. Because what I found is, especially in my work and advocacy, making the wrong decision isn't fatal, but not doing something about it could be. And so I think that for me, you know, I have three young girls, and I've spent a lot of time watching really interesting kids programs, including the Magic School Bus. And for anybody that's a fan of Miss Frizzle on the Magic School Bus, they've heard her say, take chances, get messy, make mistakes. And I've always thought that that really should be a great mantra for everyone. And so when you go out there and make big bets, and it doesn't work, I think it's really learning what was it that doesn't work and being honest about what didn't work. And a lot of times there's some ego involved in some assumptions that were made. And being honest about that. And then using that to change how you make future decisions is really the most important thing.

Koula Callahan 28:10

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David Novak 29:04

I know in the association business and you're the expert, I'm not but I've heard some say you should never get too far ahead of your members, you know, what's the risk of being too far out ahead. As a leader,

Michelle Korsmo 29:17

you might be wrong, right? There's a lot of ego and thinking that you can be too far out ahead of your members in this business of trade associations and advocacy work, we're not able to truly have all of the knowledge about why businesses are making the decisions that they're making, or how one particular policy will impact them. You know, we can do the modeling. We can have the anecdotal stories about what that may look like. But it's different than really being in the chair of the members looking at all of the information in their businesses and making those decisions. And so the nice thing about being one step ahead of your members is it means that you're actively thinking about where the industry He's going what you should be focused on, it's really leadership, right? What you should be talking about where you want them to start driving that conversation and providing feedback and guidance. If you're two steps ahead, you're too disconnected from what they're actually thinking and doing. And that's really what that statement is all about is making sure that you're always connected with what's on their minds. You

David Novak 30:23

obviously, you know, are constantly looking out and trying to improve the restaurant business and the other associations that you've worked with. But how do you go about sharpening your own axe? I mean, what do you do to get better yourself? Well,

Michelle Korsmo 30:38

I listen to podcasts, David, like yours. I chuckle about that. But I actually do listen to a lot of podcasts. I love listening to podcasts. When I'm coming into work in the morning, I love listening to business podcasts, strategy podcasts, because it's a great way to really get my mind warmed up for the work that I'm about to do that day. As always, it's a lot of reading kind of what's happening in the industry, what's happening, you know, I always just a personal interest, go back to all kinds of strategy books, leadership, organizational health books. I've read books about many of your podcast guests, who are tremendous examples of leaders and leadership. You know, I think over the years, I've found with the books that I've read, you know, often it's tempting to say, Ooh, let's completely follow this, let's completely shift course and go in this direction. And for me, I think what I've determined works best is to figure out that nugget of insight that could apply to what I'm already doing to tweak it to make it just a little bit better. And I think that in everything that we do, as leaders, we're always thinking about how can I learn from others who are doing things really well, and then apply that in my own situation, so that I can be a stronger leader. And so finding the time to listen to others, what other people are doing, and then pulling in a little improvement here and a little improvement there. I think over time is really good, much better than kind of switching philosophies, mid course and bouncing from one direction to another.

David Novak 32:11

Tell us a story about what do you think is maybe the biggest leadership lesson you've ever learned? There's

Michelle Korsmo 32:17

so many, it's hard to know exactly what's the biggest but one that I remember very distinctly as you're having me kind of go back and think about how I was when I first started leading as a CEO of a trade association. I had come in being the number two in an organization. And then the board hired me to be the CEO. And I found at the beginning that what I did was almost switched chairs, right, I'd moved offices, I was in a different seat, I switched chairs and had a new title, but I had actually switched roles in my head. And the biggest lesson for me being a leader is understanding the importance of letting go of my old job and responsibilities, and really putting on the hat. That was my new job in thinking about the strategy, the direction of the organization, helping the team be really good at what they needed to do, ensuring that they all had the tools and resources they needed to succeed. And that switch to a different role in the CEO position was a really important one for me. And I think about that in different times of what's the role that I really need to play in this job. And what's the role that other people play? And how do I help them do that better?

David Novak 33:36

You know, Michelle, this has been so much fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this?

Michelle Korsmo 33:43

All right, here we go.

David Novak 33:44

What's one word others would use to best describe you?

Michelle Korsmo 33:48

Loyal?

David Novak 33:49

What would you say is the one word that best describes you?

Michelle Korsmo 33:52

Curious?

David Novak 33:54

Who would play you in a movie?

Michelle Korsmo 33:56

I think it's between Catherine O'Hara and Lauren Graham because people always say I remind them of either of those two. And what's striking to me is people always say I remind them of the mom character.

David Novak 34:10

That's a Home Alone mom, right?

Michelle Korsmo 34:12

Hello, mom and the mom from Gilmore Girls.

David Novak 34:16

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be?

Michelle Korsmo 34:20

I don't want to be anybody but myself.

David Novak 34:21

Oh, come on.

Michelle Korsmo 34:23

I you know, I? I think it's hard. You know, I like being myself.

David Novak 34:28

Alright. What's your biggest pet peeve?

Michelle Korsmo 34:31

My biggest pet peeve is people who say that's not my job.

David Novak 34:34

Was something that brings you extreme joy.

Michelle Korsmo 34:37

My family brings me extreme joy.

David Novak 34:39

What's something about North Dakota, you'd only know if you live there.

Michelle Korsmo 34:43

There's something beautiful about being able to see for miles.

David Novak 34:48

What's your favorite restaurant in the world?

Michelle Korsmo 34:51

This is tough to ask somebody that represents so many fabulous restaurants. I don't know that I have a favorite In the world, I have favorite in locations. I kind of hate to go down that path. But I'll give a shout out to my friends at peacock cafe in Washington DC.

David Novak 35:09

If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear podcasts? What's something about you? Few people would know? Well,

Michelle Korsmo 35:18

most people don't realize they know how to drive a tractor. Or at least I knew how to drive a tractor before they got really technical and complicated. That's

David Novak 35:26

great. That's the end of the lightning round, well done. I like how you stuck to the fact that you wouldn't want to be anybody. But you're so

Michelle Korsmo 35:32

it's always harder to be somebody else than you think. I know, people like to look at someone and say, Oh, they've got it great in this direction or another. But it's good to be comfortable in your own skin.

David Novak 35:44

If you had a wish list, you know, what would it be for the restaurant industry? How would you like everybody in this country to support the restaurant industry,

Michelle Korsmo 35:53

I'd like people to know that people that work in the restaurant industry do so because they like interacting with people. So when you go to restaurants know that the people that are serving you, the people that are making those beautiful meals are doing so because they want to engage with you. So engage with them and be happy and ask them a little bit about themselves and know that they're there because they want to talk to you. You

David Novak 36:18

know, you've been a successful CEO for three associations. And what advice would you give female leaders on how to move up and grow into that CEO role?

Michelle Korsmo 36:29

The advice I would give to women is to say yes. And what I mean by saying yes, is that often women are offered opportunities to do something a little bit more or take on a new project or take on other responsibilities. And research has shown this that women tend to pull back, right, they are concerned, they're not qualified, they're concerned that they don't have the skills or expertise in order to do something. And so they're reluctant to say yes, because they don't know if they're up for it, when the reality is they are up for it, they are capable. And people will give you a lot of space to take chances, get messy and make mistakes. But you got to get in there to do it. And it's all of those different experiences that you have that will open up so many other opportunities and help shape you as a person and as a professional. So for me, when I think about advice for women, it's always to say yes, even when your head saying, Oh, I don't know, I don't know if I'd be able to succeed here. The answer is yes, you probably will succeed. And even if you fail, it's not going to be as bad as you think. So

David Novak 37:39

last question, what would be the single bit of advice you'd give to anybody on what they need to do to become an outstanding leader?

Michelle Korsmo 37:48

I think it's having and showing a lot of grace with people. I think that the most important thing to being a good leader is really knowing that people are always trying to do the right thing. And when it doesn't work out, giving them some grace to figure out how to make it work out. And what you can do to solve those problems and how you can figure out how to succeed is really important. Michelle,

David Novak 38:15

I want to thank you so much for this conversation, it's pretty clear to me why you have been so successful. And good luck with the National Restaurant Association, you've got big tasks there.

Michelle Korsmo 38:26

It's a tremendous group to be able to represent. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you, David, thank you for having me.

David Novak 38:45

You know, there's a pretty alarming stat out there from Gallup that only 32% of people are engaged in their work. That means two out of three people aren't. But if we want more engagement from our people, believe me, it starts by how we engage with them. And Michelle really shows us how to do it. She's always asking questions, being proactive, and respecting what everyone else brings to the table. She makes it a point to draw other people out. And when you have that kind of posture as a leader, people respond, they feel seen, they feel valued, and they know how they fit into the bigger mission you're on. That's how you get people engaged. So this week, as you go about your meetings and conversations, try to draw other people out. Ask about their point of view and listen to their ideas. If you want people to get more engaged with your mission, start by engaging with them first. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is the great leaders engage people by drawing them out. Coming up next on how leaders lead is the one and only Deion Sanders. He's an NFL Legend Of course, and now he's making waves as the head football coach at the University of Colorado. It

Speaker 1 39:57

don't matter where you're Located while you're leading, you don't have to be the one in front to lead. You don't have to be the highest paid person in the room to lead. You don't have to have the one with the most credentials to lead. You don't even need to be in the bank to lead. Leading is something that's an innate ability that attracts

David Novak 40:23

people to you. So be sure to come back again next week to hear my entire conversation with Coach prime. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

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