[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_137":-5,"_138":-5,"_139":140,"_141":142,"_143":144},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1939/understand-the-four-causes-of-wasteful-work","id",1939,"title","Understand the four causes of wasteful work","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.000\nSo that word you loved, \"decrapify,\" is about waste.\n\n2\n00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:08.160\nIt's all, did the junk, the CCZ emails, the reports that nobody reads,\n\n3\n00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.200\nthat sense of wasteful work has a dollarizable number to it.\n\n4\n00:00:13.200 --> 00:00:16.960\nAnd the reason I know that is we do this, we take salary data,\n\n5\n00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:22.160\nwe find the value of one hour, we find out what people report as waste,\n\n6\n00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.200\nwe cut the waste number in half because people like to complain,\n\n7\n00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:29.280\nand then we dollarize it, and we tend to see about a million dollars of waste\n\n8\n00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:31.840\nfor every 50 people in an organization.\n\n9\n00:00:31.840 --> 00:00:36.080\nWhat is that waste? That's low value work taking talent time.\n\n10\n00:00:36.080 --> 00:00:41.680\nSo in order to change that, you have to find out where the leak is coming from,\n\n11\n00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:46.560\nwhat's the source of all of this sort of swirling busyness?\n\n12\n00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:49.520\nAnd what we found is that it comes from four places,\n\n13\n00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.640\nand what's ironic about the thieves, these four things,\n\n14\n00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:58.370\nis that they are good things, they are assets, and they have just accidentally\n\n15\n00:00:58.370 --> 00:00:58.960\nrun amuck.\n\n16\n00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:05.280\nThey're drive, excellence, information, and activity.\n\n17\n00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:09.360\nAnd all of them are things that you'd look for, you'd hire for, drive,\n\n18\n00:01:09.360 --> 00:01:12.000\nexcellence, being informed, being active.\n\n19\n00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:18.560\nBut in the age of overload, they morph, and drive becomes overdrive,\n\n20\n00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:23.430\nexcellence turns into perfectionism, information slides into information\n\n21\n00:01:23.430 --> 00:01:24.240\noverload,\n\n22\n00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:30.610\nand then activity just becomes frenzy. They are the reason that we keep aggreg\n\n23\n00:01:30.610 --> 00:01:31.200\nating\n\n24\n00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:37.680\nall of this nonsense work. And so you have to understand them so that you can\n\n25\n00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:38.480\ncut them off at\n\n26\n00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:43.220\nthe source, and that's a big part of our framework is what is the methodology\n\n27\n00:01:43.220 --> 00:01:43.600\nafter\n\n28\n00:01:43.600 --> 00:01:46.560\nbeing aware of that, and how do you begin to tame the thieves?\n\n29\n00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:47.980\nAnd, you know, I would think about when I...\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1037839,"end_time",1144499,"keywords","Productivity, waste, busyness, drive, overdrive, excellence, perfectionism, information, information overload, activity, frenzy","slug","understand-the-four-causes-of-wasteful-work","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","mfBl7E01dBy01PIi1DDfpo7aUj3BmAxfaAQlvEJwxgJJ00","mux_asset_id","Zm00EYJumvSwNlazY5AdmDzY597J402KyxSNa102I12NrE","leader_id",57,"episode_id",204,"updated_at","2025-02-26T20:01:22.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1939/understand-the-four-causes-of-wasteful-work","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":110,"_111":112,"_69":113,"_39":114,"_115":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_116":117,"_89":118,"_44":119,"_120":121,"_122":123,"_46":-5,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_93":128,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Take a Minute to Think","take-a-minute-to-think","Learn how to wedge white space back into your calendar, sniff out the productivity culprits stealing your time, and focus your attention on what matters most.","summary","

Today’s guest is Juliet Funt, the CEO of the Juliet Funt group where she’s a tough-love advisor to Fortune 500 companies like Google, Costco, Nike, and Spotify. She’s also an author and we’re going to be talking about her book A Minute to Think throughout the conversation.

Now when was the last time you had a minute to think? Because if you’re like a lot of leaders, your calendar is jam packed and when you’re not in meetings, you can hardly keep up with constant emails and a task list that seems to have no end.

So what are we supposed to do about the kind of work where we need to stop and think before we respond? Or when we need to strategize about a crisis that’s imminent?

There just doesn’t seem to be time! And it’s costing us in more ways than we even realize.

Juliet is about to teach us how we can get rid of the busyness in our lives so that we can show up as better leaders. There are so many practical takeaways in this episode and I can’t wait for you to listen in.

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.720\nWelcome to Hal leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:07.380\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:07.380 --> 00:00:09.580\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:09.580 --> 00:00:12.950\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:12.950 --> 00:00:13.540\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:13.540 --> 00:00:17.540\nsimple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:17.540 --> 00:00:19.940\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:24.840\nToday's guest is Juliette Funt, the CEO of the Juliette Funt Group, where she's\n\n9\n00:00:24.840 --> 00:00:25.380\na tough\n\n10\n00:00:25.380 --> 00:00:31.420\nlove advisor to Fortune 500 companies like Google, Costco, Nike and Spotify.\n\n11\n00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:36.030\nShe's also an author and we're going to talk about her book, A Minute to Think\n\n12\n00:00:36.030 --> 00:00:36.380\nthroughout\n\n13\n00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:37.380\nthe conversation.\n\n14\n00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:41.980\nNow, when was the last time you actually had a minute to think?\n\n15\n00:00:41.980 --> 00:00:45.870\nBecause if you're like a lot of leaders, your calendars are just jam-packed and\n\n16\n00:00:45.870 --> 00:00:46.140\nwhen\n\n17\n00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:50.860\nyou're not meeting, you can hardly keep up with constant emails and a task list\n\n18\n00:00:50.860 --> 00:00:51.260\nthat\n\n19\n00:00:51.260 --> 00:00:53.460\nseems to have no end.\n\n20\n00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:57.120\nSo what are we supposed to do about the kind of work where we need to stop and\n\n21\n00:00:57.120 --> 00:00:57.900\nthink before\n\n22\n00:00:57.900 --> 00:00:59.660\nwe respond?\n\n23\n00:00:59.660 --> 00:01:03.540\nOr when we need to strategize about a crisis that's imminent?\n\n24\n00:01:03.540 --> 00:01:09.110\nOr we just simply need to have that quiet time where we really understand where\n\n25\n00:01:09.110 --> 00:01:09.700\nwe need\n\n26\n00:01:09.700 --> 00:01:11.580\nto take the business.\n\n27\n00:01:11.580 --> 00:01:16.360\nThere just doesn't seem to be time and it's costing us in more ways than we can\n\n28\n00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:17.860\never imagine.\n\n29\n00:01:17.860 --> 00:01:22.430\nJuliette is about to teach us how we can get rid of some of that busyness that\n\n30\n00:01:22.430 --> 00:01:23.220\nshows up\n\n31\n00:01:23.220 --> 00:01:27.220\nin all of us and help us become a better leader.\n\n32\n00:01:27.220 --> 00:01:31.580\nThere's so many practical takeaways in this episode and I can't wait for you to\n\n33\n00:01:31.580 --> 00:01:32.100\nlisten\n\n34\n00:01:32.100 --> 00:01:33.100\nin.\n\n35\n00:01:33.100 --> 00:01:40.300\nHere's my conversation with my new friend and soon to be yours, Juliette Funt.\n\n36\n00:01:40.300 --> 00:01:48.500\nYou know, I heard you do this once and I want to ask you to do it for us.\n\n37\n00:01:48.500 --> 00:01:52.780\nI'm about to turn on Flight of the Bumblebee.\n\n38\n00:01:52.780 --> 00:01:57.470\nAnd I want you to describe for me the work environment most of us are living in\n\n39\n00:01:57.470 --> 00:01:57.900\nthese\n\n40\n00:01:57.900 --> 00:01:58.900\ndays.\n\n41\n00:01:58.900 --> 00:01:59.900\nOkay.\n\n42\n00:01:59.900 --> 00:02:00.900\nAll right, ready?\n\n43\n00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:01.900\nYeah.\n\n44\n00:02:01.900 --> 00:02:02.900\nAll right.\n\n45\n00:02:02.900 --> 00:02:07.730\nYou, if you're a typical worker, probably, wake up in the morning, hit the snoo\n\n46\n00:02:07.730 --> 00:02:08.420\nze button,\n\n47\n00:02:08.420 --> 00:02:10.200\nyou sleep for five more minutes and you're up, you're at the grocery brush, get\n\n48\n00:02:10.200 --> 00:02:10.420\ninto the\n\n49\n00:02:10.420 --> 00:02:12.900\nkitchen looking for breakfast, maybe scrambled eggs, maybe French toast, ha ha,\n\n50\n00:02:12.900 --> 00:02:13.420\nyeah, right?\n\n51\n00:02:13.420 --> 00:02:15.340\nYou get into the car, you got a power barn, one hand a cell phone and the other\n\n52\n00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:15.620\nand you're\n\n53\n00:02:15.620 --> 00:02:16.620\ndriving with your knees.\n\n54\n00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:19.860\nYou get into the office, you start flag prioritizing your email read for\n\n55\n00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:21.140\nemergency yellow for time\n\n56\n00:02:21.140 --> 00:02:22.740\nsensitive and green for this can wait.\n\n57\n00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:25.020\nYou end up with 227 reds and a green.\n\n58\n00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:27.340\nYou go to a meeting and another meeting and another meeting and another meeting\n\n59\n00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:27.700\nand another\n\n60\n00:02:27.700 --> 00:02:30.110\nmeeting and finally a lunch conference call on which you have to spend the\n\n61\n00:02:30.110 --> 00:02:30.540\nentire time\n\n62\n00:02:30.540 --> 00:02:35.020\nlistening to the typing and sandwich eating of the one person who doesn't hit\n\n63\n00:02:35.020 --> 00:02:35.540\nmute and\n\n64\n00:02:35.540 --> 00:02:38.500\nI could go on, but we're on a podcast.\n\n65\n00:02:38.500 --> 00:02:45.100\nSo I'll probably stop there, but that's how work feels for people every day.\n\n66\n00:02:45.100 --> 00:02:46.100\nIt's amazing.\n\n67\n00:02:46.100 --> 00:02:47.100\nWe're all still standing.\n\n68\n00:02:47.100 --> 00:02:49.100\nI agree.\n\n69\n00:02:49.100 --> 00:02:50.580\nAnd that was great.\n\n70\n00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:54.870\nYou know, and you have the opportunity to consult with a lot of leaders as the\n\n71\n00:02:54.870 --> 00:02:55.300\nCEO of\n\n72\n00:02:55.300 --> 00:02:57.220\nJuliet Funt Group.\n\n73\n00:02:57.220 --> 00:03:00.850\nTell me about the work that you do and the problem you're really trying to help\n\n74\n00:03:00.850 --> 00:03:01.420\ncompanies\n\n75\n00:03:01.420 --> 00:03:02.420\nsolve.\n\n76\n00:03:02.420 --> 00:03:07.380\nYeah, we all center around this critical metaphor of building a fire.\n\n77\n00:03:07.380 --> 00:03:11.060\nAnd if I explain that to you, then everything else will fall into place.\n\n78\n00:03:11.060 --> 00:03:12.820\nSo I grew up in Manhattan.\n\n79\n00:03:12.820 --> 00:03:16.780\nI never learned how to build a fire as a kid, but I learned along the way.\n\n80\n00:03:16.780 --> 00:03:22.170\nAnd it seems that whatever ingredients you have, if you have good wood and you\n\n81\n00:03:22.170 --> 00:03:22.700\nhave a\n\n82\n00:03:22.700 --> 00:03:27.580\nfire starter and pine cones, nothing that you do will ever be complete.\n\n83\n00:03:27.580 --> 00:03:34.020\nIf you forget one critical ingredient and that is the space.\n\n84\n00:03:34.020 --> 00:03:39.800\nIt's the space in between the combustibles that lets a fire draw that spark\n\n85\n00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:40.940\ninto a burning\n\n86\n00:03:40.940 --> 00:03:46.060\nblaze and it turns out that people and talent and ideas are the same.\n\n87\n00:03:46.060 --> 00:03:51.550\nBut if they are oxygenated, then they can roar and yet most people do what we\n\n88\n00:03:51.550 --> 00:03:52.580\njust did,\n\n89\n00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:56.570\nthat satirical fast day and they walk in and their spark is immediately\n\n90\n00:03:56.570 --> 00:03:57.420\nextinguished\n\n91\n00:03:57.420 --> 00:04:01.100\nby emails, meetings, decks, paperwork.\n\n92\n00:04:01.100 --> 00:04:03.100\nSo we go in with a twofold goal.\n\n93\n00:04:03.100 --> 00:04:08.500\nOne is to create space and the others to eliminate waste because we have to dec\n\n94\n00:04:08.500 --> 00:04:09.060\nrapify\n\n95\n00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:14.060\nthe workday so that people can have that oxygenating space.\n\n96\n00:04:14.060 --> 00:04:18.310\nAnd we're seeing a million ways now post pandemic with burnout and resignation\n\n97\n00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:18.980\nthat the space\n\n98\n00:04:18.980 --> 00:04:20.580\ndeficit is coming to a head.\n\n99\n00:04:20.580 --> 00:04:22.300\nIt really is.\n\n100\n00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:25.180\nI love that decrapify the work.\n\n101\n00:04:25.180 --> 00:04:30.540\nThat really gives you a great word picture of what the problem is.\n\n102\n00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:32.300\nWhat a great concept you have here.\n\n103\n00:04:32.300 --> 00:04:36.420\nHow did you come up with that basic concept as a leader?\n\n104\n00:04:36.420 --> 00:04:39.970\nSo many years ago in the book we talk about there are basically three things\n\n105\n00:04:39.970 --> 00:04:40.500\nthat came\n\n106\n00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:42.860\ntogether to create the foundational term.\n\n107\n00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:45.260\nWe call that space white space.\n\n108\n00:04:45.260 --> 00:04:48.810\nAnd the reason that we call it white space is back in the day of private\n\n109\n00:04:48.810 --> 00:04:50.100\ncoaching executives.\n\n110\n00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:53.960\nI'd sit with them and we would open up their day planner and we would literally\n\n111\n00:04:53.960 --> 00:04:54.620\nlook for\n\n112\n00:04:54.620 --> 00:05:00.020\nwhite space on each page that if there was white paper showing that meant that\n\n113\n00:05:00.020 --> 00:05:00.620\nthe day\n\n114\n00:05:00.620 --> 00:05:06.540\nstill had possibility and flexibility and that there could be creative runway.\n\n115\n00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:10.960\nBut most days now if you open a digital calendar, mostly it is, the day looks\n\n116\n00:05:10.960 --> 00:05:11.740\nlike a paint\n\n117\n00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:12.740\nswatch.\n\n118\n00:05:12.740 --> 00:05:15.620\nJust color, color, color, color, color, color.\n\n119\n00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:21.470\nAnd there is a grand presumption that high value work could possibly be done in\n\n120\n00:05:21.470 --> 00:05:22.340\nthat arena.\n\n121\n00:05:22.340 --> 00:05:23.540\nAnd it doesn't work.\n\n122\n00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:24.540\nIt can't be.\n\n123\n00:05:24.540 --> 00:05:28.500\nAnd that's why everyone works at night and on the weekend and early in the\n\n124\n00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:29.180\nmorning and\n\n125\n00:05:29.180 --> 00:05:33.570\nin a torturous extra shift after the kids go to bed because they know that's\n\n126\n00:05:33.570 --> 00:05:34.180\nthe only\n\n127\n00:05:34.180 --> 00:05:36.380\nplace that real work can get done.\n\n128\n00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:38.780\nAnd that's not a sustainable pattern.\n\n129\n00:05:38.780 --> 00:05:39.780\nYou're absolutely right.\n\n130\n00:05:39.780 --> 00:05:44.660\nAnd when I was running young brands, I always tried to really carve out quiet\n\n131\n00:05:44.660 --> 00:05:45.300\ntime.\n\n132\n00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:48.340\nI love my times on the airplane when I was traveling.\n\n133\n00:05:48.340 --> 00:05:52.440\nA lot of times I would just block out some time where I could literally look\n\n134\n00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:53.340\nout the window\n\n135\n00:05:53.340 --> 00:05:57.820\nand reflect and hopefully generate some fresh ideas.\n\n136\n00:05:57.820 --> 00:06:00.820\nIs this a common practice for leaders?\n\n137\n00:06:00.820 --> 00:06:02.300\nWhat do you see people doing today?\n\n138\n00:06:02.300 --> 00:06:05.610\nWell, I think that you and I are about the same age and I think that there is a\n\n139\n00:06:05.610 --> 00:06:06.300\ngenerational\n\n140\n00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:10.130\nrespect for thoughtful time because we remember when you walked into the boss's\n\n141\n00:06:10.130 --> 00:06:10.700\noffice and\n\n142\n00:06:10.700 --> 00:06:13.900\nthey had their feet up and they were looking out a window and your immediate\n\n143\n00:06:13.900 --> 00:06:14.500\nresponse at\n\n144\n00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:17.500\nthat time was, oh, this is the golden hour.\n\n145\n00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:19.500\nThey're cooking the future of the business.\n\n146\n00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:22.300\nThey're writing our story and you'd sneak out.\n\n147\n00:06:22.300 --> 00:06:26.500\nAnd now the response to thoughtfulness is just plain different.\n\n148\n00:06:26.500 --> 00:06:31.720\nIt's a shameful hidden thing that people do around the corner because if you\n\n149\n00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:33.260\ntry to think\n\n150\n00:06:33.260 --> 00:06:36.920\nin a regular office, somebody is going to come up to you and say, what are you\n\n151\n00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:37.420\ndoing?\n\n152\n00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:38.420\nWhat are you doing?\n\n153\n00:06:38.420 --> 00:06:39.420\nWhat are you doing?\n\n154\n00:06:39.420 --> 00:06:43.680\nAnd so we have to begin first with the general posture of thoughtfulness and\n\n155\n00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:44.780\nreplacing that\n\n156\n00:06:44.780 --> 00:06:48.960\non its status level where it should have been, which is how great work gets\n\n157\n00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:49.540\ndone.\n\n158\n00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:53.580\nI do think that there are leaders that as you go up the chain that give\n\n159\n00:06:53.580 --> 00:06:54.620\nthemselves more\n\n160\n00:06:54.620 --> 00:06:57.060\nand more permission to do that.\n\n161\n00:06:57.060 --> 00:07:00.880\nI think leaders forget because busyness is very seductive, but they don't often\n\n162\n00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:01.460\nempathize\n\n163\n00:07:01.460 --> 00:07:06.310\nwith how impossible it is right below them and then right below that and right\n\n164\n00:07:06.310 --> 00:07:06.780\nbelow\n\n165\n00:07:06.780 --> 00:07:09.860\nthat to ever have a sip of oxygen.\n\n166\n00:07:09.860 --> 00:07:14.300\nAnd so our work, we always work with an intact population.\n\n167\n00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:18.110\nWe won't even train leaders without their people because we want an entire\n\n168\n00:07:18.110 --> 00:07:18.740\ncommunity\n\n169\n00:07:18.740 --> 00:07:25.070\nliberated by space, by permission to recuperate and think and ponder and create\n\n170\n00:07:25.070 --> 00:07:25.420\n.\n\n171\n00:07:25.420 --> 00:07:29.830\nAnd when that becomes a norm, then everybody within that group feels free and\n\n172\n00:07:29.830 --> 00:07:30.780\nsafe to try\n\n173\n00:07:30.780 --> 00:07:31.780\nand understand.\n\n174\n00:07:31.780 --> 00:07:35.550\nOh, that makes so much sense to get everybody together and really understand\n\n175\n00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:36.460\nwhat the problem\n\n176\n00:07:36.460 --> 00:07:39.820\nis and then come up with solution to attack it.\n\n177\n00:07:39.820 --> 00:07:44.630\nI used to teach a leadership program for years and one of the things that I\n\n178\n00:07:44.630 --> 00:07:45.540\nfound is that\n\n179\n00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:49.970\neverybody loved it when I really talked about the real struggles I had, the\n\n180\n00:07:49.970 --> 00:07:50.860\nmistakes that\n\n181\n00:07:50.860 --> 00:07:55.380\nI made in my career so that they could learn from them as well.\n\n182\n00:07:55.380 --> 00:08:00.160\nCan you tell us a story that will give us a glimpse of what your life was like\n\n183\n00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:00.660\nwhen you\n\n184\n00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:05.320\nfirst started this framework around all that you're doing to help companies\n\n185\n00:08:05.320 --> 00:08:05.980\ntoday?\n\n186\n00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:10.220\nI think you might know my father, Alan Fund, from Candy Camera.\n\n187\n00:08:10.220 --> 00:08:13.820\nAbsolutely, you know, the Candy Camera, and I have to tell you, when I was a\n\n188\n00:08:13.820 --> 00:08:14.540\nkid, we just\n\n189\n00:08:14.540 --> 00:08:20.520\ngathered around the television set and we watched Candy Camera, my two sisters,\n\n190\n00:08:20.520 --> 00:08:20.780\nmy\n\n191\n00:08:20.780 --> 00:08:24.700\nmom and dad, and we loved your father, Alan Fund.\n\n192\n00:08:24.700 --> 00:08:25.700\nWe just laughed.\n\n193\n00:08:25.700 --> 00:08:26.980\nIt was our favorite show of the week.\n\n194\n00:08:26.980 --> 00:08:27.980\nYeah.\n\n195\n00:08:27.980 --> 00:08:29.620\nSo I was going to talk to you about that later.\n\n196\n00:08:29.620 --> 00:08:33.500\nBut yeah, I made the connection and it's a great connection.\n\n197\n00:08:33.500 --> 00:08:37.540\nIt is and some of your younger listeners may need a little decoding here.\n\n198\n00:08:37.540 --> 00:08:42.350\nIt was basically punked back when taste was in style, which is what we like to\n\n199\n00:08:42.350 --> 00:08:43.060\nsay, but\n\n200\n00:08:43.060 --> 00:08:45.140\nit was the first ever reality television show.\n\n201\n00:08:45.140 --> 00:08:50.480\nAnd so I come from a very high achieving family looking at this famous daddy as\n\n202\n00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:51.620\na template.\n\n203\n00:08:51.620 --> 00:08:56.190\nI am a go-go, fast-paced lady and the summary of what you're asking me is I\n\n204\n00:08:56.190 --> 00:08:57.340\neventually wrote\n\n205\n00:08:57.340 --> 00:08:59.500\nthe book that I needed to read.\n\n206\n00:08:59.500 --> 00:09:04.090\nBut one of the things about my naturally driven personality is that I met\n\n207\n00:09:04.090 --> 00:09:05.260\npeople along the\n\n208\n00:09:05.260 --> 00:09:10.630\nway who were similar to me in their drive and pressure and perfectionism, but\n\n209\n00:09:10.630 --> 00:09:11.020\nwho were\n\n210\n00:09:11.020 --> 00:09:13.820\nmore trapped because they weren't entrepreneurial.\n\n211\n00:09:13.820 --> 00:09:15.140\nThey didn't drive their own ship.\n\n212\n00:09:15.140 --> 00:09:17.580\nThey couldn't pull it back when they wanted to.\n\n213\n00:09:17.580 --> 00:09:24.240\nAnd that corporate portrait of the person at work tolerating the misery of work\n\n214\n00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:24.940\n, that\n\n215\n00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:27.780\nwas what really fired me up to write this book.\n\n216\n00:09:27.780 --> 00:09:30.830\nI wanted them to know that they were not alone and I wanted them to know that\n\n217\n00:09:30.830 --> 00:09:31.340\nthere was a\n\n218\n00:09:31.340 --> 00:09:32.820\nmanageable path out.\n\n219\n00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:34.220\nAnd there are lots of stories in the book.\n\n220\n00:09:34.220 --> 00:09:36.300\nI love this one woman named Mindy.\n\n221\n00:09:36.300 --> 00:09:41.500\nWe call her the peanut butter manager because after her promotion in her sales\n\n222\n00:09:41.500 --> 00:09:42.500\ndepartment,\n\n223\n00:09:42.500 --> 00:09:45.820\nshe became so overloaded that she just said, \"Lunches for other people.\n\n224\n00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:49.640\nI'm going to just keep a jar of peanut butter on my desk and I'll take a spoon\n\n225\n00:09:49.640 --> 00:09:50.180\nful every\n\n226\n00:09:50.180 --> 00:09:51.780\ntime my blood sugar gets low.\"\n\n227\n00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:54.100\nAnd this is the way she lived and worked.\n\n228\n00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:59.000\nShe is one of hundreds of stories of just the things that we put up with in the\n\n229\n00:09:59.000 --> 00:09:59.860\nname of being\n\n230\n00:09:59.860 --> 00:10:00.940\nemployees.\n\n231\n00:10:00.940 --> 00:10:04.140\nAnd so those people needed a specific framework.\n\n232\n00:10:04.140 --> 00:10:07.920\nIt took us really 20 years to perfect it, but then we wrote it down, a specific\n\n233\n00:10:07.920 --> 00:10:08.500\nframework\n\n234\n00:10:08.500 --> 00:10:13.100\nto exit the paradigm of misery at work.\n\n235\n00:10:13.100 --> 00:10:14.700\nAnd that's really why I do the work I do.\n\n236\n00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:17.180\nI'll tell you a story on the flip side that I just heard yesterday.\n\n237\n00:10:17.180 --> 00:10:21.560\nIf you want a beautiful experience of what space can feel like way over on the\n\n238\n00:10:21.560 --> 00:10:21.940\nother\n\n239\n00:10:21.940 --> 00:10:26.780\nside, we were doing some work with these GE executives who run the power grid.\n\n240\n00:10:26.780 --> 00:10:29.750\nAnd I think they might get this wrong, but I think they've run something like a\n\n241\n00:10:29.750 --> 00:10:30.100\nthird\n\n242\n00:10:30.100 --> 00:10:34.180\nof the world's power grids from this group of 17 people.\n\n243\n00:10:34.180 --> 00:10:36.100\nAnd one of the guys Brendan told me a story.\n\n244\n00:10:36.100 --> 00:10:40.340\nWe're talking about space and creativity and we're great ideas blossom when you\n\n245\n00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:40.540\nhave\n\n246\n00:10:40.540 --> 00:10:42.340\nsufficient oxygen.\n\n247\n00:10:42.340 --> 00:10:46.660\nHe said they would put them in his earlier career into task forces to solve\n\n248\n00:10:46.660 --> 00:10:47.340\ncreative\n\n249\n00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:48.340\nproblems.\n\n250\n00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:52.500\nAnd we basically lock six or seven guys in a hotel room for weeks on end.\n\n251\n00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:55.510\nAnd you stay as long as it takes and you get up early and you just keep\n\n252\n00:10:55.510 --> 00:10:56.180\npounding on the\n\n253\n00:10:56.180 --> 00:10:57.260\nproblem.\n\n254\n00:10:57.260 --> 00:11:01.590\nHe said Thursday's were the day where there was always this aha game changing\n\n255\n00:11:01.590 --> 00:11:02.540\nbreakthrough\n\n256\n00:11:02.540 --> 00:11:03.540\nidea.\n\n257\n00:11:03.540 --> 00:11:06.220\nAnd so I finally asked him why Thursday?\n\n258\n00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:10.460\nAnd he said because on Wednesdays we did laundry.\n\n259\n00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:17.120\nAnd that's the day that we stepped back and we folded and we watched the dryer\n\n260\n00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:17.820\nand all\n\n261\n00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:22.180\nthat beautiful stuff could cook and percolate.\n\n262\n00:11:22.180 --> 00:11:25.080\nAnd so if someone came in on Thursday and they weren't on their game they would\n\n263\n00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:25.300\nsay\n\n264\n00:11:25.300 --> 00:11:27.340\nwhat's the matter didn't do your laundry.\n\n265\n00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:29.780\nOh I love that story.\n\n266\n00:11:29.780 --> 00:11:33.350\nAnd yes and this is what we have possible for us if we can just give permission\n\n267\n00:11:33.350 --> 00:11:33.740\nfor that\n\n268\n00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:34.740\nkind of space.\n\n269\n00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:38.600\nSo you do a lot of consulting with all these high powered companies and\n\n270\n00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:40.180\noutstanding leaders.\n\n271\n00:11:40.180 --> 00:11:42.860\nBut you also run a company yourself.\n\n272\n00:11:42.860 --> 00:11:45.750\nAnd a lot of times people when they run companies they have a hard time\n\n273\n00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:46.860\npractice in what they\n\n274\n00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:47.860\npreach.\n\n275\n00:11:47.860 --> 00:11:52.740\nWhat do you do consistently to reduce overload in your own business or how do\n\n276\n00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:53.460\nyou do the\n\n277\n00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:54.460\nlaundry?\n\n278\n00:11:54.460 --> 00:11:58.460\nBecause I imagine for you the work never stops and there's a lot of time demand\n\n279\n00:11:58.460 --> 00:11:59.300\non you as\n\n280\n00:11:59.300 --> 00:12:00.460\na leader.\n\n281\n00:12:00.460 --> 00:12:03.300\nYour clients want to see you all the time.\n\n282\n00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:05.660\nYou got a lot of pressure on you.\n\n283\n00:12:05.660 --> 00:12:06.660\nI do.\n\n284\n00:12:06.660 --> 00:12:10.320\nI have pretty samurai boundaries at this point I will say but is it easier\n\n285\n00:12:10.320 --> 00:12:11.060\nbecause of the\n\n286\n00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:13.380\nteam agreements that we live within.\n\n287\n00:12:13.380 --> 00:12:18.110\nAnd that's why we only change communities we don't change just leaders because\n\n288\n00:12:18.110 --> 00:12:18.260\nwhen you\n\n289\n00:12:18.260 --> 00:12:20.980\nhave team agreements things become much easier.\n\n290\n00:12:20.980 --> 00:12:24.880\nSo as an example we have a team agreement at our company that we are what's\n\n291\n00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:25.420\ncalled a\n\n292\n00:12:25.420 --> 00:12:28.860\nrow a results only work environment.\n\n293\n00:12:28.860 --> 00:12:32.110\nAnd because everybody knows that they know that the only thing that matters in\n\n294\n00:12:32.110 --> 00:12:32.500\nthe wide\n\n295\n00:12:32.500 --> 00:12:35.820\nworld of our employing them is their results.\n\n296\n00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:38.940\nWe don't care where they work when they work.\n\n297\n00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:42.900\nWe just care that at the end they move the right needle.\n\n298\n00:12:42.900 --> 00:12:45.970\nIt just remind me I hired this woman away from a very typical corporate\n\n299\n00:12:45.970 --> 00:12:46.860\nenvironment.\n\n300\n00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:49.460\nShe was so unused to that team agreement.\n\n301\n00:12:49.460 --> 00:12:52.890\nShe'd come in and say my husband and I it's our anniversary and we were\n\n302\n00:12:52.890 --> 00:12:54.060\nthinking of going\n\n303\n00:12:54.060 --> 00:12:55.740\na little early to dinner.\n\n304\n00:12:55.740 --> 00:12:59.020\nAnd I would say fine it's a results only work environment.\n\n305\n00:12:59.020 --> 00:13:02.730\nShe'd say my youngest needs to go the pediatrician and I had to keep reassuring\n\n306\n00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:03.460\nher over and\n\n307\n00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:08.320\nover and over that sitting in a particular chair for a particular duration of\n\n308\n00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:08.940\ntime was\n\n309\n00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:10.380\nnot the value system.\n\n310\n00:13:10.380 --> 00:13:14.540\nAnd when we finally broke her of that old philosophy it was very empowering.\n\n311\n00:13:14.540 --> 00:13:17.140\nYou can have team agreements around so many things.\n\n312\n00:13:17.140 --> 00:13:24.340\nEmail, communication, notifications, saying no, family, prioritization.\n\n313\n00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:27.320\nAnd when you make those team agreements you kind of sew them all together and\n\n314\n00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:27.820\nboom you've\n\n315\n00:13:27.820 --> 00:13:30.180\nmade a quilt that is your culture.\n\n316\n00:13:30.180 --> 00:13:34.220\nWhat's the process you use Juliet to really get a team agreement?\n\n317\n00:13:34.220 --> 00:13:39.590\nI mean I guess there is honestly sort of a top down essence with us where we're\n\n318\n00:13:39.590 --> 00:13:40.100\nsmall\n\n319\n00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:44.900\nand nimble enough that we were basically living the philosophy of the book.\n\n320\n00:13:44.900 --> 00:13:49.860\nSo for us the double checking every day is is there anything in this book?\n\n321\n00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:54.060\nIs there anything in our teaching that we don't earnestly live?\n\n322\n00:13:54.060 --> 00:13:58.140\nAnd everybody's just checking against that IP to be specific and not every\n\n323\n00:13:58.140 --> 00:13:58.900\ncompany has\n\n324\n00:13:58.900 --> 00:13:59.900\nit.\n\n325\n00:13:59.900 --> 00:14:02.620\nThey have mission statements and visions and values but they sit on the wall.\n\n326\n00:14:02.620 --> 00:14:06.540\nIn fact I was on the phone this morning with a client in Nigeria and they're\n\n327\n00:14:06.540 --> 00:14:07.220\nvery proud\n\n328\n00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:11.020\nof this thing they call BEQED which is an acronym that stands for all the\n\n329\n00:14:11.020 --> 00:14:11.740\nthings they\n\n330\n00:14:11.740 --> 00:14:12.980\nwant their culture to be.\n\n331\n00:14:12.980 --> 00:14:14.340\nI can't remember what they are.\n\n332\n00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:17.180\nBrave, engaged, empowered, etc.\n\n333\n00:14:17.180 --> 00:14:22.460\nAnd the buyer was very proud that every single employee could say the word, the\n\n334\n00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:24.700\nacronym BEQED\n\n335\n00:14:24.700 --> 00:14:26.260\nand knew what it meant.\n\n336\n00:14:26.260 --> 00:14:30.140\nAnd I asked her how does that show up behaviorally?\n\n337\n00:14:30.140 --> 00:14:38.300\nWhat are the things that they actually do to live into a reality of BEQED and\n\n338\n00:14:38.300 --> 00:14:39.060\nthere\n\n339\n00:14:39.060 --> 00:14:40.820\nwas silence?\n\n340\n00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:44.170\nBecause we don't translate those mission and vision statements down into here's\n\n341\n00:14:44.170 --> 00:14:44.580\nwhat this\n\n342\n00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:47.100\nlooks like in the movie of your life.\n\n343\n00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:48.700\nI want you to do this.\n\n344\n00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:52.780\nI'll give you another example I was just on with a large tech company and they\n\n345\n00:14:52.780 --> 00:14:53.500\nare doing\n\n346\n00:14:53.500 --> 00:14:57.860\nsomething that is also a problem about translating team agreements down.\n\n347\n00:14:57.860 --> 00:15:01.490\nThey're trying to do it through narrative which means they have a big\n\n348\n00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:02.500\norganization and\n\n349\n00:15:02.500 --> 00:15:06.820\nall the leaders are running around saying send less emails, say no to meetings\n\n350\n00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:06.980\nbut it's\n\n351\n00:15:06.980 --> 00:15:08.980\njust what they're saying.\n\n352\n00:15:08.980 --> 00:15:09.980\nThere's no framework.\n\n353\n00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:14.540\nSo there's an awful lot of potential pitfalls that people fall into.\n\n354\n00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:18.130\nI think that team agreements do tend to stem from the leaders personality and\n\n355\n00:15:18.130 --> 00:15:18.820\nusually it's\n\n356\n00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:22.340\nthe most senior leader that people are mimicking and following.\n\n357\n00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:25.700\nI don't think team agreements are as easy to organizationally build from the\n\n358\n00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:26.540\nbottom up.\n\n359\n00:15:26.540 --> 00:15:28.580\nYeah, so you really believe it's the shadow.\n\n360\n00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:32.030\nYou cast as the leader that other people are basically following when it\n\n361\n00:15:32.030 --> 00:15:32.660\nrelates to the\n\n362\n00:15:32.660 --> 00:15:35.540\nkind of culture you're creating in your company.\n\n363\n00:15:35.540 --> 00:15:37.620\nAnd the culture and the values.\n\n364\n00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:41.590\nIf you're a big super duper giant senior executive and you say I'm leaving at\n\n365\n00:15:41.590 --> 00:15:42.260\n345 for\n\n366\n00:15:42.260 --> 00:15:46.740\na dance recital, you've changed thousands of people's lives from that inadvert\n\n367\n00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:47.860\nent modeling.\n\n368\n00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:52.220\nConversely, if you're sending emails at 7 a.m. on Sunday morning and a little\n\n369\n00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:52.740\npissed when\n\n370\n00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:57.500\nyou don't get a fast response, then you're setting the opposite tone.\n\n371\n00:15:57.500 --> 00:16:01.040\nI went to my daughter's field hockey games, always scheduled them, made sure I\n\n372\n00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:01.540\nwent.\n\n373\n00:16:01.540 --> 00:16:05.230\nI always used to say, hey, look, if you've got something important like that in\n\n374\n00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:06.500\nyour family,\n\n375\n00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:07.500\ngo do it.\n\n376\n00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:12.260\nBut if there's work that needs to be done, you figure out how to get that done.\n\n377\n00:16:12.260 --> 00:16:16.330\nBut make sure you make what you think is a priority for your family, a true\n\n378\n00:16:16.330 --> 00:16:17.140\npriority.\n\n379\n00:16:17.140 --> 00:16:21.060\nHow do you feel about that kind of statement, that kind of approach?\n\n380\n00:16:21.060 --> 00:16:23.460\nI think it's beautiful as long as it's true.\n\n381\n00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:28.790\nSo there's a really tempting, dualistic message where a leader might say, and I\n\n382\n00:16:28.790 --> 00:16:29.140\ndon't think\n\n383\n00:16:29.140 --> 00:16:32.740\nthis would be you because I've heard about your heart-centered approach.\n\n384\n00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:38.410\nBut if there's a leader who runs the party line and says, please take off for\n\n385\n00:16:38.410 --> 00:16:39.140\nfamily,\n\n386\n00:16:39.140 --> 00:16:44.530\nbut then when people do take off for family, they get a scowl or a little mini-\n\n387\n00:16:44.530 --> 00:16:45.180\neyeroll\n\n388\n00:16:45.180 --> 00:16:51.020\nor a little bit of a silent message that you are not a team player.\n\n389\n00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:54.800\nAnd that duality, that gap between the leader, what they say and what they\n\n390\n00:16:54.800 --> 00:16:55.580\nactually live\n\n391\n00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:58.940\ninto drives people a little bit crazy, I have to say.\n\n392\n00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:04.060\nI've heard you talk about, and I've read you your thinking about what you call\n\n393\n00:17:04.060 --> 00:17:04.700\nthe thieves\n\n394\n00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:06.740\nof productivity.\n\n395\n00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:11.250\nCould you walk us through those and explain why they're so important to be\n\n396\n00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:11.980\naware of as\n\n397\n00:17:11.980 --> 00:17:13.380\nwe lead our teams?\n\n398\n00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:17.280\nLet me give the context, and then I'll teach the thieves because context is so\n\n399\n00:17:17.280 --> 00:17:18.060\nimportant.\n\n400\n00:17:18.060 --> 00:17:22.060\nSo that word you loved, \"decrapify,\" is about waste.\n\n401\n00:17:22.060 --> 00:17:26.340\nIt's all, did the junk, the CCZ emails, the reports that nobody reads.\n\n402\n00:17:26.340 --> 00:17:31.180\nThat sense of wasteful work has a dollarizable number to it.\n\n403\n00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:35.380\nAnd the reason I know that is we do this, we take salary data, we find the\n\n404\n00:17:35.380 --> 00:17:35.900\nvalue of\n\n405\n00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:41.190\none hour, we find out what people report as waste, we cut the waste number in\n\n406\n00:17:41.190 --> 00:17:41.860\nhalf because\n\n407\n00:17:41.860 --> 00:17:45.220\npeople like to complain, and then we dollarize it, and we tend to see about a\n\n408\n00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:46.140\nmillion dollars\n\n409\n00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:50.020\nof waste for every 50 people in an organization.\n\n410\n00:17:50.020 --> 00:17:51.260\nWhat is that waste?\n\n411\n00:17:51.260 --> 00:17:54.860\nThat's low value work taking talent time.\n\n412\n00:17:54.860 --> 00:17:59.940\nSo in order to change that, you have to find out where the leak is coming from.\n\n413\n00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:04.700\nWhat's the source of all of this sort of swirling busyness?\n\n414\n00:18:04.700 --> 00:18:07.580\nAnd what we found is that it comes from four places.\n\n415\n00:18:07.580 --> 00:18:12.360\nAnd what's ironic about the thieves, these four things, is that they are good\n\n416\n00:18:12.360 --> 00:18:13.100\nthings.\n\n417\n00:18:13.100 --> 00:18:17.660\nThey are assets, and they have just accidentally run amok.\n\n418\n00:18:17.660 --> 00:18:23.340\nThey're drive, excellence, information, and activity.\n\n419\n00:18:23.340 --> 00:18:27.210\nAnd all of them are things that you'd look for, you'd hire for, drive,\n\n420\n00:18:27.210 --> 00:18:28.220\nexcellence, being\n\n421\n00:18:28.220 --> 00:18:30.140\ninformed, being active.\n\n422\n00:18:30.140 --> 00:18:36.940\nBut in the age of overload, they morph, and drive becomes overdrive.\n\n423\n00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:39.780\nSuccess turns into perfectionism.\n\n424\n00:18:39.780 --> 00:18:42.340\nInformation slides into information overload.\n\n425\n00:18:42.340 --> 00:18:45.420\nAnd then activity just becomes frenzy.\n\n426\n00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:52.700\nThey are the reason that we keep aggregating all of this nonsense work.\n\n427\n00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:57.140\nAnd so you have to understand them so that you can cut them off at the source.\n\n428\n00:18:57.140 --> 00:19:01.570\nAnd that's a big part of our framework is what is the methodology after being\n\n429\n00:19:01.570 --> 00:19:02.020\naware\n\n430\n00:19:02.020 --> 00:19:04.740\nof that, and how do you begin to tame the thieves?\n\n431\n00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:08.240\nI would think about when I look at myself, I'd say drive would probably be my\n\n432\n00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:08.740\nissue,\n\n433\n00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:10.980\nparticularly when I was coming up in my career.\n\n434\n00:19:10.980 --> 00:19:14.870\nI would go from drive to overdrive, and really try to show everybody how\n\n435\n00:19:14.870 --> 00:19:16.340\nambitious I was,\n\n436\n00:19:16.340 --> 00:19:17.500\nwhat I was trying to get done.\n\n437\n00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:19.540\nAnd I worked round the clock.\n\n438\n00:19:19.540 --> 00:19:22.740\nSo drive was a great thing, but I probably took it too far.\n\n439\n00:19:22.740 --> 00:19:25.540\nDo you have a thief that you have to fight every day?\n\n440\n00:19:25.540 --> 00:19:27.900\nOh, absolutely mine is excellence.\n\n441\n00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:29.940\nI'm a rabid wild perfectionist.\n\n442\n00:19:29.940 --> 00:19:31.060\nI'm watching these three boys.\n\n443\n00:19:31.060 --> 00:19:35.270\nI have grown up 12, 14, 16, just praying that somehow they've avoided it, but\n\n444\n00:19:35.270 --> 00:19:35.620\nthey have\n\n445\n00:19:35.620 --> 00:19:40.540\ntwo perfectionistic parents and they're absolutely, you know, apple to the tree\n\n446\n00:19:40.540 --> 00:19:40.660\n.\n\n447\n00:19:40.660 --> 00:19:42.860\nAnd that can be a beautiful thing.\n\n448\n00:19:42.860 --> 00:19:46.210\nNow maybe when I'm doing four iterations of a business card and sending it back\n\n449\n00:19:46.210 --> 00:19:46.460\nas the\n\n450\n00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:47.700\nteal is not right.\n\n451\n00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:49.340\nThat's not quite what we want.\n\n452\n00:19:49.340 --> 00:19:51.900\nBut they all have beautiful qualities.\n\n453\n00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:58.140\nMy perfectionism is responsible for so much specificity, beauty, thoughtfulness\n\n454\n00:19:58.140 --> 00:19:59.300\nin my work,\n\n455\n00:19:59.300 --> 00:20:04.060\nbut it also can tie me to unnecessary overkill in lots of directions.\n\n456\n00:20:04.060 --> 00:20:07.220\nAnd your drive is beautiful got you where you are.\n\n457\n00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:08.580\nIt makes things happen.\n\n458\n00:20:08.580 --> 00:20:14.380\nIt can create scope, but if misused, it can exhaust and it can overwhelm and it\n\n459\n00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:15.060\ncan also\n\n460\n00:20:15.060 --> 00:20:18.620\nhave too many different plates spinning at the same time.\n\n461\n00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:20.060\nI'll tell you a thieves story.\n\n462\n00:20:20.060 --> 00:20:21.340\nThis guy named Steve Martin.\n\n463\n00:20:21.340 --> 00:20:25.930\nIt's not the Steve Martin, but that was his name was a data scientist at\n\n464\n00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:27.020\nMicrosoft.\n\n465\n00:20:27.020 --> 00:20:28.020\nAnd they came to him.\n\n466\n00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:30.700\nBut we need a whole bunch of collateral for the sales team.\n\n467\n00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:33.890\nCan you explain all your smart guy stuff to the sales team with a bunch of\n\n468\n00:20:33.890 --> 00:20:34.380\ndecks and\n\n469\n00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:35.380\nPDFs?\n\n470\n00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:39.060\nAnd he had a sense that it was unimportant work.\n\n471\n00:20:39.060 --> 00:20:44.170\nHe had a sense that it was the thief of information just poking at him, but he\n\n472\n00:20:44.170 --> 00:20:45.460\ndecided to comply\n\n473\n00:20:45.460 --> 00:20:46.580\nwith the request.\n\n474\n00:20:46.580 --> 00:20:51.340\nAnd what he did is he built all the stuff, but he played, my father would have\n\n475\n00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:52.140\nbeen proud,\n\n476\n00:20:52.140 --> 00:20:56.440\none of the greatest efficiency pranks of all time in every piece of collateral\n\n477\n00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:57.260\non the third\n\n478\n00:20:57.260 --> 00:20:58.260\npage.\n\n479\n00:20:58.260 --> 00:21:02.800\nHe put a nice box, not sneaky, that said, if you're actually reading this far,\n\n480\n00:21:02.800 --> 00:21:03.380\nemail me\n\n481\n00:21:03.380 --> 00:21:07.700\nand I'll send you an Amazon gift card for 50 bucks.\n\n482\n00:21:07.700 --> 00:21:12.180\nAnd nobody ever wrote him because nobody ever got that far in any of the stuff.\n\n483\n00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:16.220\nAnd then the team came back to him and they said, we need more stuff for the\n\n484\n00:21:16.220 --> 00:21:16.780\nfollowing\n\n485\n00:21:16.780 --> 00:21:17.780\nyear.\n\n486\n00:21:17.780 --> 00:21:18.980\nAnd he was able to say, no, you don't.\n\n487\n00:21:18.980 --> 00:21:24.410\nAnd by the way, none of you guys in your pre program review who requested the\n\n488\n00:21:24.410 --> 00:21:25.180\nmaterial\n\n489\n00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:29.220\neven made it to the page where these offers were hidden.\n\n490\n00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:34.890\nSo it's so rife in our environment, but we can begin to exercise it one thing\n\n491\n00:21:34.890 --> 00:21:37.180\nat a time.\n\n492\n00:21:37.180 --> 00:21:42.860\nIn your book, you also write that at work, expectations around pace are so\n\n493\n00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:43.860\ningrained in\n\n494\n00:21:43.860 --> 00:21:44.860\nus.\n\n495\n00:21:44.860 --> 00:21:47.180\nWe similarly did not see them.\n\n496\n00:21:47.180 --> 00:21:52.140\nFaster is better and work is competition where speed is a prime category to be\n\n497\n00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:52.900\njudged.\n\n498\n00:21:52.900 --> 00:21:56.860\nTalk to me about the idea of what you call hallucinated urgency.\n\n499\n00:21:56.860 --> 00:21:59.540\nI think people need there's so much going on.\n\n500\n00:21:59.540 --> 00:22:02.860\nThey just need something that catches their attention and boy, the hallucinated\n\n501\n00:22:02.860 --> 00:22:03.260\nurgency\n\n502\n00:22:03.260 --> 00:22:05.780\nthing makes them say, Amen, that is me.\n\n503\n00:22:05.780 --> 00:22:07.660\nIt's everywhere.\n\n504\n00:22:07.660 --> 00:22:12.420\nIt's every element of time sensitivity is flattened.\n\n505\n00:22:12.420 --> 00:22:16.660\nAnd there's just this sense of as soon as possible is the timeframe for every\n\n506\n00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:17.140\nsingle\n\n507\n00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:18.140\ntouch.\n\n508\n00:22:18.140 --> 00:22:19.860\nSo how do we unwind that?\n\n509\n00:22:19.860 --> 00:22:24.060\nWell, we teach this is a team agreement that you can teach.\n\n510\n00:22:24.060 --> 00:22:28.290\nYou teach that there are three levels of urgency in the real world when you're\n\n511\n00:22:28.290 --> 00:22:29.260\nnot tripping.\n\n512\n00:22:29.260 --> 00:22:31.980\nAnd here's what they are.\n\n513\n00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:33.780\nSomething can be not time sensitive.\n\n514\n00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:37.740\nIf you're a leader, you have to shine a giant spotlight on that because no one\n\n515\n00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.340\nwill ever\n\n516\n00:22:38.340 --> 00:22:44.020\nknow that you intend for something to be not time sensitive, but it does exist.\n\n517\n00:22:44.020 --> 00:22:49.320\nThen things can be tactically time sensitive and this is the subset where how\n\n518\n00:22:49.320 --> 00:22:49.980\nfast you\n\n519\n00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:54.020\ngo actually does in fact influence a business result.\n\n520\n00:22:54.020 --> 00:22:55.940\nThis is where we care about speed.\n\n521\n00:22:55.940 --> 00:23:01.130\nBut then there's this giant catch all that's so interesting of emotionally time\n\n522\n00:23:01.130 --> 00:23:01.940\nsensitive\n\n523\n00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:06.860\nand emotionally time sensitive simply means it's masquerading as tactically\n\n524\n00:23:06.860 --> 00:23:08.100\ntime sensitive.\n\n525\n00:23:08.100 --> 00:23:14.750\nAnd in reality, I'm just curious or I'm anxious or I really want to get a\n\n526\n00:23:14.750 --> 00:23:15.940\nresponse right\n\n527\n00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:16.940\naway.\n\n528\n00:23:16.940 --> 00:23:21.060\nNone of those things have a tactical tie to getting good work done.\n\n529\n00:23:21.060 --> 00:23:25.990\nAnd so when you have this language, you can kind of begin to check in with each\n\n530\n00:23:25.990 --> 00:23:26.500\nother\n\n531\n00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:31.020\nand say, is there an element of emotional time sensitivity here?\n\n532\n00:23:31.020 --> 00:23:33.440\nIs it possible this is actually not time sensitive?\n\n533\n00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.420\nIs there really a tactical urgency here?\n\n534\n00:23:35.420 --> 00:23:38.500\nAnd it gives teams wonderful ways to talk about it.\n\n535\n00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:42.890\nWell, you have to I'm sure create shared experiences within your team so that\n\n536\n00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:43.380\nyou can\n\n537\n00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:44.380\nget this alignment.\n\n538\n00:23:44.380 --> 00:23:46.740\nIs that a critical component of your training?\n\n539\n00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:51.260\nYes, we train companies in a one business quarter process.\n\n540\n00:23:51.260 --> 00:23:52.740\nIt's about 12 weeks.\n\n541\n00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:57.140\nWe teach from the leaders down and then we teach everybody together.\n\n542\n00:23:57.140 --> 00:24:01.090\nSo when everybody is in a cadence learning something, let's say we're we got a\n\n543\n00:24:01.090 --> 00:24:01.700\nthousand\n\n544\n00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:06.060\npeople and this week we're all talking about hallucinated urgency.\n\n545\n00:24:06.060 --> 00:24:09.090\nEven if it's just a small amount of time, it's amazing to see the viral\n\n546\n00:24:09.090 --> 00:24:09.780\nactivity of a\n\n547\n00:24:09.780 --> 00:24:14.690\nhuge group of people or even a small group of people who are thinking about the\n\n548\n00:24:14.690 --> 00:24:15.060\nsame\n\n549\n00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:19.820\nthing at the same time that has previously been unaddressed.\n\n550\n00:24:19.820 --> 00:24:22.340\nA lot of things we teach are not even novel.\n\n551\n00:24:22.340 --> 00:24:25.920\nThey're just an excuse for common sense to turn into common practice and for\n\n552\n00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:26.420\npeople to\n\n553\n00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:30.980\nsay, listen, we have to stop doing this or we have to start doing that.\n\n554\n00:24:30.980 --> 00:24:35.560\nYou'd be amazed at how smart people can solve some of this when they slow down\n\n555\n00:24:35.560 --> 00:24:35.780\nand when\n\n556\n00:24:35.780 --> 00:24:42.980\nthey have the space.\n\n557\n00:24:42.980 --> 00:24:46.880\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Juliette Funt in just a\n\n558\n00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:47.300\nmoment.\n\n559\n00:24:47.300 --> 00:24:51.820\nAs a leader, you influence your company's culture more than you realize.\n\n560\n00:24:51.820 --> 00:24:54.920\nThe man I've learned the most from when it comes to scaling the right kind of\n\n561\n00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:55.340\nculture\n\n562\n00:24:55.340 --> 00:25:01.230\nis Larry Sin, the chairman of Sin Delaney and the actual father and founder of\n\n563\n00:25:01.230 --> 00:25:02.380\nthe idea\n\n564\n00:25:02.380 --> 00:25:03.980\nof corporate culture.\n\n565\n00:25:03.980 --> 00:25:05.380\nHow do you change habits of adults?\n\n566\n00:25:05.380 --> 00:25:09.820\nHow do you get successful people who may be too territorial or too controlling\n\n567\n00:25:09.820 --> 00:25:10.020\nor want\n\n568\n00:25:10.020 --> 00:25:11.340\nin power?\n\n569\n00:25:11.340 --> 00:25:13.020\nPeople need epiphanies.\n\n570\n00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:15.940\nThey need aha moments in order to change behaviors.\n\n571\n00:25:15.940 --> 00:25:17.380\nSo I said, hey, I'm an engineer.\n\n572\n00:25:17.380 --> 00:25:22.850\nWhy do my engineer a series of exercises which create epiphanies around things\n\n573\n00:25:22.850 --> 00:25:24.700\nlike accountability,\n\n574\n00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:28.140\ncollaboration, positive spirit, coaching and feedback?\n\n575\n00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:32.630\nSo that's the heart of what we call inside-based or experiential learning,\n\n576\n00:25:32.630 --> 00:25:33.460\nwhich is really\n\n577\n00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:36.100\nthe engine that drives our culture shaping work.\n\n578\n00:25:36.100 --> 00:25:39.920\nSo what kind of culture are you creating and how can you improve that part of\n\n579\n00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:41.380\nyour leadership?\n\n580\n00:25:41.380 --> 00:25:46.620\nGo back and listen to my conversation with Larry Sin, episode 71, here on How\n\n581\n00:25:46.620 --> 00:25:53.620\nLeaders Lead.\n\n582\n00:25:53.620 --> 00:25:57.500\nYou also have a strategy for leaders that you call a wedge.\n\n583\n00:25:57.500 --> 00:26:01.430\nTalking about how that can help us in the fast-paced environments that we\n\n584\n00:26:01.430 --> 00:26:02.260\nobviously all\n\n585\n00:26:02.260 --> 00:26:03.540\nwork in these days.\n\n586\n00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:07.440\nYes, we should talk about the wedge and then we should segue into the wedge for\n\n587\n00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:07.940\nmeetings\n\n588\n00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:11.740\nbecause I think post-COVID, we have to touch meetings.\n\n589\n00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:17.010\nPeople are in such pain, but the wedge is the foundational tool of getting\n\n590\n00:26:17.010 --> 00:26:17.940\nwhite space\n\n591\n00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:19.820\nto be real for you.\n\n592\n00:26:19.820 --> 00:26:25.890\nIt's a big problem even for leaders when people think, \"I need 15, 30, 60\n\n593\n00:26:25.890 --> 00:26:27.100\nminutes of space.\n\n594\n00:26:27.100 --> 00:26:29.780\nIt might not happen for you.\"\n\n595\n00:26:29.780 --> 00:26:33.130\nBut if you start with interstitial, you imagine if you could see my fingers,\n\n596\n00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:33.980\nthey're pointed\n\n597\n00:26:33.980 --> 00:26:36.980\ntogether like a church steeple pointing upwards.\n\n598\n00:26:36.980 --> 00:26:44.310\nImagine a wedge of space, 30 seconds, 10 seconds a minute, inserted in between\n\n599\n00:26:44.310 --> 00:26:45.380\nactivities\n\n600\n00:26:45.380 --> 00:26:47.180\nthat previously were connected.\n\n601\n00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:52.470\nSo between a project and picking up the next one or between getting a difficult\n\n602\n00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:53.100\nemail and\n\n603\n00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:57.490\nresponding to it or between driving into your driveway and stepping out to\n\n604\n00:26:57.490 --> 00:26:58.300\nfamily, you're\n\n605\n00:26:58.300 --> 00:27:03.190\nopening your Addys little minutes, a minute, a few seconds, two minutes, five\n\n606\n00:27:03.190 --> 00:27:03.980\nminutes.\n\n607\n00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:10.580\nAnd now you're oxygenating the day without the scary prospect of, \"I'm going to\n\n608\n00:27:10.580 --> 00:27:11.180\nblock\n\n609\n00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:15.180\n60 minutes of white space,\" which I'll tell you in the beginning and even later\n\n610\n00:27:15.180 --> 00:27:15.500\ncan be\n\n611\n00:27:15.500 --> 00:27:17.020\nhard for people.\n\n612\n00:27:17.020 --> 00:27:21.260\nSo the wedge is super accessible and everyone can do it.\n\n613\n00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:22.540\nThat totally makes sense.\n\n614\n00:27:22.540 --> 00:27:26.700\nAnd how does it work in this hopefully post-COVID environment?\n\n615\n00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:31.650\nI'll tell you that probably the most popular rule post-COVID is a use of the\n\n616\n00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:32.380\nwedge.\n\n617\n00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:36.060\nAnd it's a meeting where we should talk a little bit about these meetings.\n\n618\n00:27:36.060 --> 00:27:39.020\nMeetings used to have a little bit of a time frame.\n\n619\n00:27:39.020 --> 00:27:41.020\nNow, of course, the workday has expanded.\n\n620\n00:27:41.020 --> 00:27:44.020\nBloomberg's telling us two and a half hours longer is what we're working every\n\n621\n00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:44.580\nday because\n\n622\n00:27:44.580 --> 00:27:46.260\nwe've lost the edges.\n\n623\n00:27:46.260 --> 00:27:47.860\nWe don't have the boundary in the morning.\n\n624\n00:27:47.860 --> 00:27:49.820\nWe don't have the boundary in the evening.\n\n625\n00:27:49.820 --> 00:27:54.220\nGlobal teams even worse, more of an excuse to talk to China and Australia at\n\n626\n00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:55.140\ninsane times\n\n627\n00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:56.620\nof the day and night.\n\n628\n00:27:56.620 --> 00:28:01.740\nSo we are going to have to, as a leadership community globally, rewrite the\n\n629\n00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:03.140\nnorms of COVID.\n\n630\n00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:07.650\nWe're going to have to replace the brackets at the beginning and the end of the\n\n631\n00:28:07.650 --> 00:28:07.980\nday.\n\n632\n00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.260\nThen we're going to have to change that paint swatch.\n\n633\n00:28:11.260 --> 00:28:14.260\nRemember I said it was like color, color, color, color, color, color.\n\n634\n00:28:14.260 --> 00:28:18.480\nAnd the foundational rule that you can play with, really easy one to try and\n\n635\n00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:19.420\nteach is never\n\n636\n00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:21.900\nlet the colors touch.\n\n637\n00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:24.250\nBecause if you're looking at your, if we opened our outlook right now and we\n\n638\n00:28:24.250 --> 00:28:25.020\nlooked at one\n\n639\n00:28:25.020 --> 00:28:28.060\nday, you'd probably see all the colors touching.\n\n640\n00:28:28.060 --> 00:28:30.860\nBut if you were to follow the rule of never let the colors touch, what that\n\n641\n00:28:30.860 --> 00:28:31.260\nmeans is\n\n642\n00:28:31.260 --> 00:28:32.940\nyou would see stripes.\n\n643\n00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:38.720\nThere'd be white stripes of five, 10, 15 minute breaks in between each and\n\n644\n00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:40.180\nevery meeting,\n\n645\n00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:42.340\nfollowing the rule, never let the colors touch.\n\n646\n00:28:42.340 --> 00:28:46.400\nIf I could for a second, I'd like to go back a little bit and dive deeper into\n\n647\n00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:47.660\nyour background.\n\n648\n00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:51.300\nYou mentioned that your father was Alan Fon.\n\n649\n00:28:51.300 --> 00:28:52.900\nTell us about your upbringing.\n\n650\n00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:57.140\nAnd if you could tell us a story about when you were a kid that really\n\n651\n00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:58.300\ninfluenced the\n\n652\n00:28:58.300 --> 00:29:00.980\ntype of leader you are today.\n\n653\n00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:06.180\nMy parents had a lot of what we would call \"service\" in the Jewish community.\n\n654\n00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:10.020\nThere's a lot of difficulty before they got divorced.\n\n655\n00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:13.970\nAnd there was a specific day, I don't know honestly whether this is a positive\n\n656\n00:29:13.970 --> 00:29:14.900\nor negative,\n\n657\n00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:18.940\nbut my dad, like a lot of creatives, had a temper.\n\n658\n00:29:18.940 --> 00:29:22.930\nAnd it was part of his genius just exploding out in a lot of different\n\n659\n00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:23.980\ndirections.\n\n660\n00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:29.380\nAnd my mother took me aside one day and said she was trying to figure out a way\n\n661\n00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:30.060\nto calm\n\n662\n00:29:30.060 --> 00:29:34.180\nthings down as the divorce was approaching.\n\n663\n00:29:34.180 --> 00:29:37.700\nI don't think it was the greatest advice, but she was reaching.\n\n664\n00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:41.380\nShe said, \"We're the nurses and he's a patient.\n\n665\n00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:44.540\nWe just have to keep the patient comfortable.\"\n\n666\n00:29:44.540 --> 00:29:48.210\nAnd I think that this played into my leadership, but in a negative way, which\n\n667\n00:29:48.210 --> 00:29:48.860\nis there are\n\n668\n00:29:48.860 --> 00:29:53.660\nmany, many years where I would keep another person happy at my own expense.\n\n669\n00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:59.960\nI think in the early years of my career, I figured out what others might want\n\n670\n00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:00.700\nfrom me\n\n671\n00:30:00.700 --> 00:30:01.860\nas a leader.\n\n672\n00:30:01.860 --> 00:30:05.180\nAnd I became a good chameleon at molding into that.\n\n673\n00:30:05.180 --> 00:30:09.770\nAnd if I was with people who were a little bit more conservative, maybe I\n\n674\n00:30:09.770 --> 00:30:10.580\nwouldn't ever\n\n675\n00:30:10.580 --> 00:30:14.420\nchange my truth or what I would say in content, but I would just sort of dress\n\n676\n00:30:14.420 --> 00:30:15.140\na little bit\n\n677\n00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:16.300\nmore conservative.\n\n678\n00:30:16.300 --> 00:30:20.430\nOr maybe if I was with my hippie friends from our alternative school, I would\n\n679\n00:30:20.430 --> 00:30:21.020\nlean a little\n\n680\n00:30:21.020 --> 00:30:22.020\nbit more in that direction.\n\n681\n00:30:22.020 --> 00:30:25.080\nAnd that chameleoning, honestly, I think, I've never spoken about this on a\n\n682\n00:30:25.080 --> 00:30:25.580\npodcast,\n\n683\n00:30:25.580 --> 00:30:29.680\nbut I think came out of this idea of it's your responsibility to make other\n\n684\n00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:31.420\npeople comfortable.\n\n685\n00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:37.940\nAnd I think that there was a time around 10 years ago where I began to really,\n\n686\n00:30:37.940 --> 00:30:38.660\nreally\n\n687\n00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:43.780\nbreak with that and as part of aging and part of confidence.\n\n688\n00:30:43.780 --> 00:30:47.720\nAnd it's been so positive to have enough objectivity to see that that was a\n\n689\n00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:48.420\ntrend for me.\n\n690\n00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:51.700\nI know you meant to say a positive leadership trait, but it was a difficult\n\n691\n00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:52.180\nperiod.\n\n692\n00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:54.860\nAnd I look back on it, grateful to have clarity.\n\n693\n00:30:54.860 --> 00:30:58.860\nI think it's actually ended up being a positive leadership trait for you.\n\n694\n00:30:58.860 --> 00:31:02.340\nI mean, it actually took you a while to realize that.\n\n695\n00:31:02.340 --> 00:31:07.920\nBut did you have an aha moment where you said, hey, this isn't really right for\n\n696\n00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:08.460\nme?\n\n697\n00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:09.580\nYes, I did.\n\n698\n00:31:09.580 --> 00:31:10.860\nAnd it was pretty funny.\n\n699\n00:31:10.860 --> 00:31:14.580\nI used to teach a lot of kids in the very early years.\n\n700\n00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:17.660\nI was doing a lot of youth and education stuff.\n\n701\n00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:24.660\nAnna Middle School asked me to write a curriculum about authenticity.\n\n702\n00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:27.940\nAnd I wrote this piece that we still use to this day about what is the grad\n\n703\n00:31:27.940 --> 00:31:28.740\nation between\n\n704\n00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:35.430\nbeing authentic, what we call purposeful authentic, which is your real self,\n\n705\n00:31:35.430 --> 00:31:35.940\nbut plus\n\n706\n00:31:35.940 --> 00:31:40.880\na filter to be appropriate and then contrived, which is where you completely\n\n707\n00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:41.980\nlose yourself.\n\n708\n00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:45.290\nAnd I don't know if you're familiar with this, but sometimes you can write a\n\n709\n00:31:45.290 --> 00:31:45.860\nteaching that\n\n710\n00:31:45.860 --> 00:31:49.400\nsounds really good, even if you're not good at the thing, because you're a good\n\n711\n00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:49.780\nwriter\n\n712\n00:31:49.780 --> 00:31:52.180\nand a good speaker.\n\n713\n00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:59.030\nAnd I sat there talking to these nine-year-olds, and I was thinking authentic,\n\n714\n00:31:59.030 --> 00:32:01.020\npurposeful authentic,\n\n715\n00:32:01.020 --> 00:32:02.020\ncontrived.\n\n716\n00:32:02.020 --> 00:32:03.820\nAnd where am I on that gradation?\n\n717\n00:32:03.820 --> 00:32:09.800\nAnd I really think that needing to write that Xeroxed handout for a bunch of\n\n718\n00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:10.020\nmiddle\n\n719\n00:32:10.020 --> 00:32:15.740\nschoolers was when I started noticing that I'm very, very sensitive.\n\n720\n00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:19.430\nIf I ever teach anything that isn't true for me, I said that earlier in our\n\n721\n00:32:19.430 --> 00:32:20.780\nteam agreements,\n\n722\n00:32:20.780 --> 00:32:23.340\nit sits with me like a rash.\n\n723\n00:32:23.340 --> 00:32:25.420\nAnd I don't think it was true for me.\n\n724\n00:32:25.420 --> 00:32:28.540\nAnd I think that that was a moment where I began to make it more true.\n\n725\n00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:30.020\nSo that was a great learning for you.\n\n726\n00:32:30.020 --> 00:32:35.170\nIt took you a while, but I think in life, we all have to kind of work through\n\n727\n00:32:35.170 --> 00:32:35.820\nthose issues\n\n728\n00:32:35.820 --> 00:32:37.700\nthat we struggle with.\n\n729\n00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:43.140\nAnd you got there and you seem to be doing pretty well now, Juliet.\n\n730\n00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:47.830\nAnd I understand that you take your family all over the world to experience\n\n731\n00:32:47.830 --> 00:32:48.580\ndifferent\n\n732\n00:32:48.580 --> 00:32:51.980\ncultures, and you've been really doing this the past few years.\n\n733\n00:32:51.980 --> 00:32:54.020\nWhat was the genesis of that idea?\n\n734\n00:32:54.020 --> 00:32:55.260\nOh, goodie.\n\n735\n00:32:55.260 --> 00:32:56.340\nLet's talk about travel.\n\n736\n00:32:56.340 --> 00:33:00.220\nSo there is a thing a lot of people don't know about, called world schooling.\n\n737\n00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:02.100\nAnd it's actually a movement.\n\n738\n00:33:02.100 --> 00:33:03.260\nThey have websites.\n\n739\n00:33:03.260 --> 00:33:04.560\nThere are conferences.\n\n740\n00:33:04.560 --> 00:33:08.860\nAnd we came across that about three and a half years ago.\n\n741\n00:33:08.860 --> 00:33:13.940\nWe decided to go out and trade school for travel.\n\n742\n00:33:13.940 --> 00:33:18.270\nAnd we took our kids to, we lived in about 14 countries over the course of two\n\n743\n00:33:18.270 --> 00:33:18.620\nand a\n\n744\n00:33:18.620 --> 00:33:21.220\nhalf years before the pandemic hit.\n\n745\n00:33:21.220 --> 00:33:24.340\nAnd it was just, it was so fascinating from a leadership point of view.\n\n746\n00:33:24.340 --> 00:33:26.140\nTalk about confidence and authenticity.\n\n747\n00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:31.770\nIn the beginning, I thought, can I tell big shots at Microsoft and Nike that I\n\n748\n00:33:31.770 --> 00:33:32.340\n'm calling\n\n749\n00:33:32.340 --> 00:33:38.140\nin from Bali or Croatia or wherever the heck we were or from a sailboat or a\n\n750\n00:33:38.140 --> 00:33:39.060\nbeach.\n\n751\n00:33:39.060 --> 00:33:43.250\nAnd I found that as you started being, it's like actually another lesson in\n\n752\n00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:44.300\nauthenticity.\n\n753\n00:33:44.300 --> 00:33:50.110\nWhen we started talking about it, it became the alluring white space victory\n\n754\n00:33:50.110 --> 00:33:51.060\nstory of all\n\n755\n00:33:51.060 --> 00:33:52.060\ntime.\n\n756\n00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:56.930\nThat if you could live this way and still run a team that was doing active high\n\n757\n00:33:56.930 --> 00:33:58.020\nlevel work\n\n758\n00:33:58.020 --> 00:34:02.100\nand still get work done and have that kind of flexibility, then it really\n\n759\n00:34:02.100 --> 00:34:02.980\nbecame a very\n\n760\n00:34:02.980 --> 00:34:06.380\nmagnetic, exciting story for people and there was no need to hide it.\n\n761\n00:34:06.380 --> 00:34:10.420\nBut we had a marvelous time, we did, we called it skill chill.\n\n762\n00:34:10.420 --> 00:34:13.730\nSo we would pick different skills that we wanted the boys to learn or that I,\n\n763\n00:34:13.730 --> 00:34:14.260\nwe wanted\n\n764\n00:34:14.260 --> 00:34:15.260\nto learn.\n\n765\n00:34:15.260 --> 00:34:17.340\nAnd then in the middle between the skills, we would chill.\n\n766\n00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.980\nWe did leather working in Italy.\n\n767\n00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:22.380\nWe did sailing in Croatia.\n\n768\n00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:24.220\nWe did charity work in Myanmar.\n\n769\n00:34:24.220 --> 00:34:27.930\nWe went on this really fascinating trip before Myanmar was too dangerous to go\n\n770\n00:34:27.930 --> 00:34:28.460\nthere.\n\n771\n00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:31.880\nAnd COVID did cut us short, but it's probably the greatest thing that I ever\n\n772\n00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:32.540\nhad a chance\n\n773\n00:34:32.540 --> 00:34:33.540\nto do.\n\n774\n00:34:33.540 --> 00:34:35.140\nThat is just incredible.\n\n775\n00:34:35.140 --> 00:34:38.600\nAnd I hope a lot of listeners take that into account and figure out how they\n\n776\n00:34:38.600 --> 00:34:39.060\ncan do it\n\n777\n00:34:39.060 --> 00:34:42.300\nin whatever way that can work for them in their lives.\n\n778\n00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:46.460\nWhat are you working on right now, Juliet, that you're most excited about?\n\n779\n00:34:46.460 --> 00:34:48.580\nWhat's really got your juices flowing?\n\n780\n00:34:48.580 --> 00:34:49.580\nOkay.\n\n781\n00:34:49.580 --> 00:34:50.580\nGood question.\n\n782\n00:34:50.580 --> 00:34:52.780\nBecause it's very, very clear to me.\n\n783\n00:34:52.780 --> 00:34:58.360\nWe had announced in December after we launched a giant book with Harper Collins\n\n784\n00:34:58.360 --> 00:34:59.140\nand read it\n\n785\n00:34:59.140 --> 00:35:03.360\nevery course that we owned and built a whole bunch of new courses during COVID\n\n786\n00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:04.500\nthat 2022\n\n787\n00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:09.060\nis going to be the year of no new things.\n\n788\n00:35:09.060 --> 00:35:12.220\nAnd this year, we are doing nothing new.\n\n789\n00:35:12.220 --> 00:35:17.170\nWe are just doubling down and enjoying and perfecting and new on saying the\n\n790\n00:35:17.170 --> 00:35:17.820\nthings that\n\n791\n00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:18.820\nwe already have.\n\n792\n00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:22.470\nAnd I have to tell you that this boundary of the year of no new things has\n\n793\n00:35:22.470 --> 00:35:23.140\nturned into\n\n794\n00:35:23.140 --> 00:35:28.190\nsuch a liberating concept that I have a very strong thought that 2022 is going\n\n795\n00:35:28.190 --> 00:35:28.660\nto be the\n\n796\n00:35:28.660 --> 00:35:32.900\nsequel of the year of no new things part two because it gives you away a really\n\n797\n00:35:32.900 --> 00:35:34.100\ngreat way,\n\n798\n00:35:34.100 --> 00:35:37.420\nbut right now this new partnership right now, this new mastermind, not right\n\n799\n00:35:37.420 --> 00:35:37.980\nnow, this new\n\n800\n00:35:37.980 --> 00:35:44.850\nhire, this new product, the crutch of it has really shown me how much depth we\n\n801\n00:35:44.850 --> 00:35:45.540\nwant to\n\n802\n00:35:45.540 --> 00:35:50.720\nand can create and things that we've already built instead of just skipping a\n\n803\n00:35:50.720 --> 00:35:51.420\nrock to the\n\n804\n00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:54.740\nnext goal or project or request from a client.\n\n805\n00:35:54.740 --> 00:35:57.790\nAnd it's hardest when they do come to you and say, we want this, will you build\n\n806\n00:35:57.790 --> 00:35:58.220\nit?\n\n807\n00:35:58.220 --> 00:36:02.340\nBut I'm pretty strong and we've been saying no and it's going fantastic.\n\n808\n00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:05.900\nYou and I have, I think maybe something in common.\n\n809\n00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:09.650\nI like to think of myself as a creative person and you're obviously a very\n\n810\n00:36:09.650 --> 00:36:10.780\ncreative person.\n\n811\n00:36:10.780 --> 00:36:14.070\nAnd I used to say that sometimes a worst thing that could happen to the\n\n812\n00:36:14.070 --> 00:36:15.140\norganization is if\n\n813\n00:36:15.140 --> 00:36:19.970\nI actually had a day when I didn't have anything to do, okay, because I would\n\n814\n00:36:19.970 --> 00:36:20.860\ncome up with\n\n815\n00:36:20.860 --> 00:36:25.140\nnew things to do before we'd actually done the things that needed to be done.\n\n816\n00:36:25.140 --> 00:36:29.780\nWhen you saying no new things, was that a big challenge for you?\n\n817\n00:36:29.780 --> 00:36:32.260\nOh, it was huge, it was huge.\n\n818\n00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:36.420\nAnd I think three days later or something, the first week in January, some big\n\n819\n00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:36.900\nclient\n\n820\n00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:40.650\nfrom Vanguard came in and said, will you build this, you know, Shmati Shmat for\n\n821\n00:36:40.650 --> 00:36:40.820\nus?\n\n822\n00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:42.620\nAnd I had to say no.\n\n823\n00:36:42.620 --> 00:36:48.260\nBut we had not even touched the depth of things that we'd already started.\n\n824\n00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:53.760\nAnd I don't know what that comes from that skittering along the top of quantity\n\n825\n00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:54.460\nof ideas\n\n826\n00:36:54.460 --> 00:36:57.300\nthat are not really plumbed and not really nurtured.\n\n827\n00:36:57.300 --> 00:37:01.290\nAnd I'm not kidding, we may extend it to next year because it's just been\n\n828\n00:37:01.290 --> 00:37:02.220\nwonderful.\n\n829\n00:37:02.220 --> 00:37:06.620\nAnd everybody's been able to calm down and think about what they care about and\n\n830\n00:37:06.620 --> 00:37:06.820\nthink\n\n831\n00:37:06.820 --> 00:37:10.340\nabout how things could just be better and better and better.\n\n832\n00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:14.080\nThe little things that we already have talked about being a perfectionist to\n\n833\n00:37:14.080 --> 00:37:14.500\nlook at the\n\n834\n00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:19.040\ncoursework, the way we talk to clients, the way we're sharing the book, you get\n\n835\n00:37:19.040 --> 00:37:19.740\nthat kind\n\n836\n00:37:19.740 --> 00:37:24.320\nof freedom, business is better than it's ever been, and we're doing nothing new\n\n837\n00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:25.100\n, nothing.\n\n838\n00:37:25.100 --> 00:37:29.190\nWhat trends are you seeing right now in the successful companies you get to\n\n839\n00:37:29.190 --> 00:37:29.900\nconsult with\n\n840\n00:37:29.900 --> 00:37:32.500\nit that we can really learn from?\n\n841\n00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:38.030\nI think the biggest trend that I care about right now is who is in charge of\n\n842\n00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:38.980\nthe hybrid\n\n843\n00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:40.300\ndirection.\n\n844\n00:37:40.300 --> 00:37:48.740\nI think that hybrid is such a worrisome phase that we're about to go into.\n\n845\n00:37:48.740 --> 00:37:53.320\nI think real human beings, they were comfortable at work, then they got\n\n846\n00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:54.820\ncomfortable at home,\n\n847\n00:37:54.820 --> 00:37:58.270\nnow we're going to rip them out of their newly established home offices and ask\n\n848\n00:37:58.270 --> 00:37:58.660\nthem to\n\n849\n00:37:58.660 --> 00:38:01.060\ncome in a little here and a little there.\n\n850\n00:38:01.060 --> 00:38:04.880\nAnd then they're going to make the schlep in and they'll be all by themselves\n\n851\n00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:05.460\non Zoom all\n\n852\n00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:08.540\nday long because the other people who've literally didn't have to be in are not\n\n853\n00:38:08.540 --> 00:38:09.140\nin, it's just\n\n854\n00:38:09.140 --> 00:38:10.420\na mess.\n\n855\n00:38:10.420 --> 00:38:16.780\nSo I have a real bias that employees have to drive hybrid design and that\n\n856\n00:38:16.780 --> 00:38:17.940\nemployee surveys\n\n857\n00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:21.620\nand employee questioning and skip level meetings have to drive hybrid design.\n\n858\n00:38:21.620 --> 00:38:22.620\nNow I will tell you my truth.\n\n859\n00:38:22.620 --> 00:38:25.430\nI've actually never said this on a podcast because we were just deciding\n\n860\n00:38:25.430 --> 00:38:26.060\nwhether I could\n\n861\n00:38:26.060 --> 00:38:27.060\ncommit to this or not.\n\n862\n00:38:27.060 --> 00:38:31.540\nBut my real advice to these companies that we're talking to, you have to\n\n863\n00:38:31.540 --> 00:38:32.380\nunderstand also\n\n864\n00:38:32.380 --> 00:38:34.180\nthis is very tied to the great resignation.\n\n865\n00:38:34.180 --> 00:38:36.900\nPeople are just sick of this and they're finally leaving.\n\n866\n00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.380\nSo it's a retention issue also.\n\n867\n00:38:39.380 --> 00:38:44.340\nMy advice is to find certain days and certain memorable moments that are\n\n868\n00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:45.500\nmandatory and then\n\n869\n00:38:45.500 --> 00:38:49.500\nlet everybody choose everything else on their own.\n\n870\n00:38:49.500 --> 00:38:53.200\nIf you say we're going to be in the office Tuesday and Thursday, but everybody\n\n871\n00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:53.780\ngets to\n\n872\n00:38:53.780 --> 00:38:58.500\ndecide if they come in or not, it's just turning out to be a mess.\n\n873\n00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:01.500\nAnd if you say that we have to be in all the time, you're going to lose a lot\n\n874\n00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:01.860\nof good\n\n875\n00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:02.860\npeople.\n\n876\n00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:06.020\nIf you say we're going to be home all the time, all your boomers are going to\n\n877\n00:39:06.020 --> 00:39:06.380\nbe too\n\n878\n00:39:06.380 --> 00:39:10.420\ncut off from the intimacy that they require with their peers.\n\n879\n00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:16.420\nSo my belief is that the way out of the woods is to really pick our battles.\n\n880\n00:39:16.420 --> 00:39:18.260\nMaybe it's one day a week.\n\n881\n00:39:18.260 --> 00:39:20.260\nMaybe it's one day a week plus certain events.\n\n882\n00:39:20.260 --> 00:39:23.180\nAnd on those times, everybody's in.\n\n883\n00:39:23.180 --> 00:39:26.380\nAnd then the rest of the time, it's an autonomy question.\n\n884\n00:39:26.380 --> 00:39:30.140\nThe part of it that we have to think through and we're actually consulting with\n\n885\n00:39:30.140 --> 00:39:30.940\nsome corporate\n\n886\n00:39:30.940 --> 00:39:35.980\nrealtor towels of ours is, you know, if you did that, you'd be leaving a lot of\n\n887\n00:39:35.980 --> 00:39:36.740\nreal estate\n\n888\n00:39:36.740 --> 00:39:40.340\npretty empty for a very expensive part of the week.\n\n889\n00:39:40.340 --> 00:39:43.890\nBut it may just be worth it to give people a feeling of freedom in such a\n\n890\n00:39:43.890 --> 00:39:45.140\ndifficult time.\n\n891\n00:39:45.140 --> 00:39:48.860\nAnd this is the issue that where I wouldn't say we're through it yet, but we're\n\n892\n00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:49.180\ntalking\n\n893\n00:39:49.180 --> 00:39:51.300\nand talking and talking about it.\n\n894\n00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:53.140\nYou know, Juliet, this has been so much fun.\n\n895\n00:39:53.140 --> 00:39:57.100\nAnd I'd like to have a little bit more with you with some rapid fire questions.\n\n896\n00:39:57.100 --> 00:39:58.100\nAre you ready for this?\n\n897\n00:39:58.100 --> 00:39:59.100\nOh, fun.\n\n898\n00:39:59.100 --> 00:40:00.100\nOkay.\n\n899\n00:40:00.100 --> 00:40:01.100\nGood.\n\n900\n00:40:01.100 --> 00:40:02.100\nThe three words that best describe you.\n\n901\n00:40:02.100 --> 00:40:05.140\nPerky smart open.\n\n902\n00:40:05.140 --> 00:40:09.940\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be and why?\n\n903\n00:40:09.940 --> 00:40:14.180\nMarie Forleo, because I have a giant fan girl crush on her.\n\n904\n00:40:14.180 --> 00:40:16.180\nYour biggest pet peeve.\n\n905\n00:40:16.180 --> 00:40:21.850\nOh, biggest pet peeve husband half finishing the dishes at night, leaving three\n\n906\n00:40:21.850 --> 00:40:22.980\nitems mysteriously\n\n907\n00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:26.620\nundone when the rest of kitchen is clean.\n\n908\n00:40:26.620 --> 00:40:28.660\nThe favorite country you visited.\n\n909\n00:40:28.660 --> 00:40:30.020\nOh, my gosh.\n\n910\n00:40:30.020 --> 00:40:31.020\nNew Zealand hands down.\n\n911\n00:40:31.020 --> 00:40:32.020\nNo contest.\n\n912\n00:40:32.020 --> 00:40:35.660\nA book about leadership that you've learned the most from.\n\n913\n00:40:35.660 --> 00:40:36.660\nOh, my God.\n\n914\n00:40:36.660 --> 00:40:37.660\nThere are so many.\n\n915\n00:40:37.660 --> 00:40:39.820\nI'm in love with at your best right now, Carrie Newhoff.\n\n916\n00:40:39.820 --> 00:40:42.900\nI'll have to just give you current instead of forever.\n\n917\n00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:46.100\nThat's something about you that few people would know.\n\n918\n00:40:46.100 --> 00:40:48.340\nThat I was bitten by a tiger.\n\n919\n00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:49.340\nReally?\n\n920\n00:40:49.340 --> 00:40:50.340\nOkay.\n\n921\n00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:51.820\nOut of that happened.\n\n922\n00:40:51.820 --> 00:40:53.460\nMy husband is a travel photographer.\n\n923\n00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:56.140\nWe were doing a photo shoot with the studios with these two baby tigers and I\n\n924\n00:40:56.140 --> 00:40:56.700\nhave a little\n\n925\n00:40:56.700 --> 00:40:57.700\ntiger scar.\n\n926\n00:40:57.700 --> 00:40:59.700\nIt's my proudest moment.\n\n927\n00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:03.180\nThe best pizza place in New York City.\n\n928\n00:41:03.180 --> 00:41:05.380\nWell, Ray is duh.\n\n929\n00:41:05.380 --> 00:41:08.340\nAnd your favorite candid camera moment.\n\n930\n00:41:08.340 --> 00:41:10.420\nOh, Cinderella.\n\n931\n00:41:10.420 --> 00:41:11.420\nYou'll have to look it up.\n\n932\n00:41:11.420 --> 00:41:13.980\nGoogle candid camera Cinderella.\n\n933\n00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:18.810\nAnd what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to improve as a\n\n934\n00:41:18.810 --> 00:41:19.620\nleader?\n\n935\n00:41:19.620 --> 00:41:21.100\nTake a minute to think.\n\n936\n00:41:21.100 --> 00:41:24.640\nAnd you know, Juliet, I have to ask you one last question because, you know, I\n\n937\n00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:25.220\n've heard\n\n938\n00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:30.060\nyou talk about this and it's very, very powerful.\n\n939\n00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:36.250\nThere's a story in your book that reminds us why doing work to build the habit\n\n940\n00:41:36.250 --> 00:41:37.060\nof pause\n\n941\n00:41:37.060 --> 00:41:39.140\nis so important.\n\n942\n00:41:39.140 --> 00:41:41.500\nAnd you actually called the story the ride.\n\n943\n00:41:41.500 --> 00:41:46.180\nI'd like to wrap this up if you could just tell us about the ride.\n\n944\n00:41:46.180 --> 00:41:50.490\nI often think that my entire life's work is to facilitate a corporate company\n\n945\n00:41:50.490 --> 00:41:51.060\nthat just\n\n946\n00:41:51.060 --> 00:41:53.860\ngets me to the point where I get to share that one story.\n\n947\n00:41:53.860 --> 00:41:55.420\nSo I'm glad that you asked that.\n\n948\n00:41:55.420 --> 00:41:56.420\nThat's very touching.\n\n949\n00:41:56.420 --> 00:41:59.220\nThere's a woman who came up to me after an event.\n\n950\n00:41:59.220 --> 00:42:02.880\nShe said she wanted to tell me a story and she said that when she was a little\n\n951\n00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:03.420\ngirl, her\n\n952\n00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:08.460\nfather came to her and said, let's pack a picnic and let's go get mama and let\n\n953\n00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:08.820\n's go\n\n954\n00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:12.860\nfor a good old fashioned joy ride in the country.\n\n955\n00:42:12.860 --> 00:42:15.920\nAnd they went into the kitchen and they made ham and cheese sandwiches and pink\n\n956\n00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:16.340\nlemonade\n\n957\n00:42:16.340 --> 00:42:18.780\nand they went to get mama who was busy.\n\n958\n00:42:18.780 --> 00:42:22.700\nAnd mama said, I'm too busy, but you guys have a great time.\n\n959\n00:42:22.700 --> 00:42:23.700\nAnd they did.\n\n960\n00:42:23.700 --> 00:42:28.500\nThey had a really marvelous time and they drove and drove until the sun went\n\n961\n00:42:28.500 --> 00:42:28.740\ndown and\n\n962\n00:42:28.740 --> 00:42:32.020\nhe died two days later.\n\n963\n00:42:32.020 --> 00:42:38.250\nAnd she told me that her mother talked about that choice for the rest of her\n\n964\n00:42:38.250 --> 00:42:38.980\nlife.\n\n965\n00:42:38.980 --> 00:42:43.170\nAnd she would be kind of found in little corners of the house talking to\n\n966\n00:42:43.170 --> 00:42:44.420\nherself saying, I\n\n967\n00:42:44.420 --> 00:42:47.460\ndidn't take the ride.\n\n968\n00:42:47.460 --> 00:42:51.140\nAnd I had little kids at the time, only had two.\n\n969\n00:42:51.140 --> 00:42:53.780\nI didn't tell that story for a little while.\n\n970\n00:42:53.780 --> 00:42:57.020\nIt was sort of just becoming ready inside of me.\n\n971\n00:42:57.020 --> 00:43:01.500\nAnd one day I was sitting at the kitchen table, I'm pounding away at my laptop.\n\n972\n00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:03.580\nAnd my husband is in the backyard.\n\n973\n00:43:03.580 --> 00:43:06.180\nHe has a two year old and four year old.\n\n974\n00:43:06.180 --> 00:43:07.540\nThey're both naked.\n\n975\n00:43:07.540 --> 00:43:11.900\nThey each have their own hose and they're washing the car.\n\n976\n00:43:11.900 --> 00:43:15.260\nAnd he texted me in the kitchen, I'm pounding away on the laptop.\n\n977\n00:43:15.260 --> 00:43:18.100\nHe says, pretty cute out here if you have a second.\n\n978\n00:43:18.100 --> 00:43:21.260\nAnd I texted back really fast.\n\n979\n00:43:21.260 --> 00:43:24.020\nNo busy.\n\n980\n00:43:24.020 --> 00:43:29.660\nAnd then that story came to visit and it lifted me out of the chair.\n\n981\n00:43:29.660 --> 00:43:35.180\nI got so nervous that I knocked the chair over trying to get out there.\n\n982\n00:43:35.180 --> 00:43:41.700\nAnd that story is the reason that we are supposed to be doing everything.\n\n983\n00:43:41.700 --> 00:43:46.240\nIt's the reason that work is supposed to be put to bed at some point so that\n\n984\n00:43:46.240 --> 00:43:46.580\nthe rest\n\n985\n00:43:46.580 --> 00:43:51.860\nof life can occur and what's really sad about the extension of the workday is\n\n986\n00:43:51.860 --> 00:43:52.020\nthis\n\n987\n00:43:52.020 --> 00:43:53.540\nless and less time for that to happen.\n\n988\n00:43:53.540 --> 00:43:56.700\nI know that COVID has let people also spend more time with their family.\n\n989\n00:43:56.700 --> 00:43:59.780\nBut the focus time is what's really important to me.\n\n990\n00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:03.500\nSo I hope that that story does as much for people as it does for me over and\n\n991\n00:44:03.500 --> 00:44:03.980\nover when\n\n992\n00:44:03.980 --> 00:44:04.980\nI think about it.\n\n993\n00:44:04.980 --> 00:44:10.410\nWell, Julia, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you giving us your focus\n\n994\n00:44:10.410 --> 00:44:11.900\ntime this past hour.\n\n995\n00:44:11.900 --> 00:44:17.730\nI think any leader could just glean so many insights on how to lead, how to\n\n996\n00:44:17.730 --> 00:44:18.500\nleverage your\n\n997\n00:44:18.500 --> 00:44:22.770\ntime, how to create a better work environment for your people from this\n\n998\n00:44:22.770 --> 00:44:23.740\nconversation.\n\n999\n00:44:23.740 --> 00:44:25.620\nSo I thank you very much.\n\n1000\n00:44:25.620 --> 00:44:27.620\nNice to meet you too.\n\n1001\n00:44:27.620 --> 00:44:41.380\nOoh, I got to tell you as a father, that closing story really touched my heart.\n\n1002\n00:44:41.380 --> 00:44:45.730\nAnd it really showed me what's a stake if we don't apply what we heard from\n\n1003\n00:44:45.730 --> 00:44:46.380\nJuliet in\n\n1004\n00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.740\nthis conversation.\n\n1005\n00:44:47.740 --> 00:44:51.020\nAnd the good news is we can learn to fight against business and take control of\n\n1006\n00:44:51.020 --> 00:44:51.260\nour\n\n1007\n00:44:51.260 --> 00:44:52.860\nlives again.\n\n1008\n00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:54.980\nWhat's great is we can start small.\n\n1009\n00:44:54.980 --> 00:44:56.660\nOne minute at a time.\n\n1010\n00:44:56.660 --> 00:44:59.800\nThis week as part of your weekly personal development plan, here's what I want\n\n1011\n00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:00.180\nyou to\n\n1012\n00:45:00.180 --> 00:45:01.180\ndo.\n\n1013\n00:45:01.180 --> 00:45:03.060\nTake a look at that calendar of yours.\n\n1014\n00:45:03.060 --> 00:45:06.700\nIs there any white space or are the colors touching?\n\n1015\n00:45:06.700 --> 00:45:10.090\nAnd if it's all filled up, see if you can make some adjustments and build in\n\n1016\n00:45:10.090 --> 00:45:10.780\nsome white\n\n1017\n00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:11.780\nspaces.\n\n1018\n00:45:11.780 --> 00:45:15.840\nIf it's at all possible, carve an hour out to reflect on your own leadership in\n\n1019\n00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:16.540\nthe business\n\n1020\n00:45:16.540 --> 00:45:19.700\nand just see what you can come up with.\n\n1021\n00:45:19.700 --> 00:45:24.470\nGet some real quiet time where you can actually take the time to look out the\n\n1022\n00:45:24.470 --> 00:45:26.540\nwindow and reflect.\n\n1023\n00:45:26.540 --> 00:45:31.100\nLike I mentioned in this episode, that was one of my favorite rituals as a CEO.\n\n1024\n00:45:31.100 --> 00:45:37.110\nI like to get in my office, be alone and look out the window and just think\n\n1025\n00:45:37.110 --> 00:45:38.260\nabout what we\n\n1026\n00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:43.580\nneeded to do, what I needed to do to better the business and better myself.\n\n1027\n00:45:43.580 --> 00:45:47.220\nBelieve me, it was a difference maker for me.\n\n1028\n00:45:47.220 --> 00:45:48.980\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1029\n00:45:48.980 --> 00:45:52.820\nWhat we learned today is that great leaders take a minute to think.\n\n1030\n00:45:52.820 --> 00:45:56.380\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How leaders lead where every\n\n1031\n00:45:56.380 --> 00:45:57.140\nThursday you\n\n1032\n00:45:57.140 --> 00:46:01.460\nget to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1033\n00:46:01.460 --> 00:46:05.370\nI make an appointment to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1034\n00:46:05.370 --> 00:46:05.740\napply\n\n1035\n00:46:05.740 --> 00:46:10.020\nto your business so that you will become the very best leader you can be.\n\n1036\n00:46:10.020 --> 00:46:11.180\nI'll see you next week.\n\n1037\n00:46:11.180 --> 00:46:21.180\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1038\n00:46:21.180 --> 00:46:45.140\n[ Silence ]","

David Novak 0:03

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today's guest is Juliette font, the CEO of the Juliette Font group, where she's a tough love adviser to Fortune 500 companies like Google, Costco, Nike, and Spotify. She's also an author, and we're going to talk about her book a minute to think throughout the conversation. Now, when was the last time you actually had a minute to think because of your like a lot of leaders, your calendars are just jam packed. And when you're not meeting, you can hardly keep up with constant emails and a task list that seems to have no end. So what are we supposed to do about the kind of work where we need to stop and think before we respond, or when we need to strategize about a crisis that's imminent, or we just simply need to have that quiet time where we really understand where we need to take the business. There just doesn't seem to be time and is costing us in more ways than we can ever imagine. Juliet is about to teach us how we can get rid of some of that busyness that shows up in all of us, and help us become a better leader. There's so many practical takeaways in this episode, and I can't wait for you to listen in. Here's my conversation with my new friend and soon to be yours. Juliet font

Unknown Speaker 1:43

you know, I

David Novak 1:43

heard you do this once and I want to ask you to do it for us. I'm about to turn on Flight of the Bumblebee. And I want you to describe for me, the work environment most of us are living in these days.

Speaker 1 1:58

Okay. All right, ready? Yep. All right. You if you're a

Juliet Funt 2:04

typical worker, probably wake up in the morning hit the snooze button. You sleep for five more minutes and Rashard. Bearskin into the kitchen looking for breakfast, maybe scrambled eggs, maybe french toast? Ha ha Yeah, right, you get into the car, you got a power bar in one hand, a cellphone or the other and you're driving with your knees, you get into the office, you start flag prioritizing your email read for emergency yellow for time sensitive and green for this can wait, you end up with 227 reds and a green, you go to a meeting and another meeting and another meeting and another meeting another meeting. And finally a lunch conference call in which you have to spend the entire time listening to the typing and sandwich eating of the one person who doesn't hit mute. And I could go on but we're on a podcast. So I'll probably stop there. But that's a work feels or people every day. It's amazing. We're all still standing

David Novak 2:48

here created and that was great. You know, and you have the opportunity to consult with a lot of leaders as the CEO of Juliette Font Group. Tell me about the work that you do. And the problem you're really trying to help companies solve.

Juliet Funt 3:02

Yeah, we all center around this critical metaphor of building a fire. And if I explain that to you, then everything else will fall into place. So I grew up in Manhattan, I never learned how to build a fire as a kid. But I learned along the way. And it seems that whatever ingredients you have, if you have good wood and you have Firestarter and pine cones, nothing that you do will ever be complete, if you forget one critical ingredient, and that is the space. It's the space in between the combustibles that lead to fire, draw that spark into a burning Blaze. And it turns out that people and talent and ideas are the same that if they are oxygenated, then they can roar. And yet most people do what we just did that satirical fast day and they walk in and their Spark is immediately extinguished by emails, meetings, decks paperwork. So we go in with a two fold goal one is to create space and the other is to eliminate waste because we have to D crap a phi the work days so that people can have that oxygenating space. And we're seeing a million ways now post pandemic with burnout and resignation that space deficit is coming to a head. It really is.

David Novak 4:22

I love that D crap apply the work is that is that really gives you a great word picture what the problem is, you know, what a great concept you have here. You know, how did you come up with that basic concept as a leader?

Juliet Funt 4:36

So many years ago, in the book we talked about there are basically three things that came together to create the foundational term, we call that space white space. And the reason that we call it white space is back in the day of private coaching executives, I'd sit with them and we would open up their day planner, and we would literally look for white space on each page that if there was white paper showing that meant that the day still had possibility and flexibility and that there could be creative runway. But most days now, if you open a digital calendar, mostly it is, the day looks like a paint swatch just color, color, color, color, color color. And there is a grand presumption that high value work could possibly be done in that arena. And it doesn't work, it can't be. And that's why everyone works at night. And on the weekend, and early in the morning, and in a torturous extra shift after the kids go to bed because they know that's the only place that real work can get done. And that's not a sustainable pattern.

David Novak 5:38

You're absolutely right. You know, when I was running yum brands, I always tried to really carve out quiet time. You know, I, I love my times on the airplane, when I was traveling, a lot of times, I would just block out some time where I could literally look out the window and reflect and hopefully generate some fresh ideas. Is this a common practice for leaders? What do you see people doing today?

Juliet Funt 6:02

Well, I think that you and I are about the same age. And I think that there's a generational respect for thoughtful time, because we remember when you walked into the boss's office, and they had their feet up, and they were looking out of window and you your immediate response at that time was, oh, this is the golden hour, they're cooking the future of the business. They're writing our story, and you'd sneak out and now the response to thoughtfulness is just playing different. It's a shameful hidden thing that people do around the corner. Because if you try to think in a regular office, somebody is going to come up to you and say, What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing. And so we have to begin first with the general posture of thoughtfulness and replacing that on its status level where it should have been, which is how great work gets done. I do think that there are leaders that as you go up the chain, that give themselves more and more permission to do that. I think leaders forget because busyness is very seductive, but they don't often empathize with how impossible it is right below them. And then right below that, and right below that to ever have a sip of oxygen. And so our work, we always work with an intact population, we won't even train leaders without their people. Because we want an entire community liberated by space by permission to recuperate, and think and ponder and create. And when that becomes a norm, then everybody within that group feels free and safe to try it.

David Novak 7:31

Oh, that makes so much sense to get everybody together and you know, really understand what the problem is, and then come up with solution to attack it. You know, I used to teach a leadership program for years. And one of the things that I found is that everybody loved it. When I really talked about the real struggles I had the the mistakes that I made in my career so that they could learn from them as well. Can you tell us a story that will give us a glimpse of what your life was like when you first started this framework around all that you're doing to help companies today?

Juliet Funt 8:05

I think you might know my father Alan font from candy camera.

David Novak 8:09

Absolutely. You know, the Candid Camera. And I have to tell you, when I was a kid, we just gathered around the television set. And we watched Candid Camera, my two sisters, my mom and dad, and we loved your father Alan font. We just laughed. It was our favorite show of the week. Yeah, so I was going to talk to you about that later. But yeah, I made the connection. And it's a great connection. It is

Juliet Funt 8:33

in some of your younger listeners may need a little decoding heroes basically punked back when taste was in style, which is what we we like to say but it's it was the first ever reality television show. And so I come from a very high achieving family looking at this famous daddy as a template. I'm a go Go fast paced lady. And you know, the summary of what you're asking me is I eventually wrote the book that I needed to read. But one of the things about my naturally driven personality is that I met people along the way, who were similar to me in their drive and pressure and perfectionism, but who were more trapped because they weren't entrepreneurial. They didn't drive their own ship, they couldn't pull it back when they wanted to. And that corporate portrait of the person at work, tolerating the misery of work. That was what really fired me up to write this book. I wanted them to know that they were not alone. And I wanted them to know that there was a manageable path out and there are lots of stories in the book. I love this one woman named Mindy we call her the peanut butter manager. Because after her promotion in her sales department, she became so overloaded that she just said lunches for other people. I'm going to just keep a jar of peanut butter on my desk and I'll take a spoonful every time my blood sugar gets low and this is the way she lived and worked and she is one of hundreds of stories of just the things that we put up with in the name of being employees. And so those people needed a specific framework, it took us really 20 years to perfect it. But then we wrote it down a specific framework to exit the paradigm of misery at work. And, and that's really why I do the work I do. I'll tell you a story on the flip side that I just heard yesterday, if you want a beautiful experience of what space can feel like way over on the other side, we were doing some work with these GE executives who run the power grid. And I think they I might get this wrong, but I think they've run something like a third of the world's power grids from this group of 17 people. And one of the guys Brendan told me a story, you know, we're talking about space and creativity and where great ideas blossom when you have sufficient oxygen. He said they would put them in his earlier career into task forces to solve creative problems. And they would basically lock six or seven guys in a hotel room for weeks on end, and you stay as long as it takes, and you get up early, and you just keep pounding on the problem. He said, Thursday's were the day where there was always this aha game changing breakthrough idea. And so I finally asked him, Why Thursday, and he said, because on Wednesdays, we did laundry. And that's the day that we stepped back. And we folded and we watched the dryer and all that beautiful stuff could cook and percolate. And, and so if someone came in on Thursday, and they weren't on their game, they would say what's the matter didn't do your laundry? Oh, I love that story. And yes, and this is what we have possible for us if we can just give permission for that kind of space.

David Novak 11:34

So you do a lot of consulting with all these high powered companies and outstanding leaders. But you're you also run a company yourself. And you know, a lot of times people when they run companies, they have a hard time practicing what they preach. What do you do consistently to reduce overload in your own business? Or, or how do you do the laundry, because I imagine for you, the work never stops. And there's there's a lot of time demand on you, as a leader, your clients want to see you all the time, you know, you got a lot of pressure on you.

Juliet Funt 12:05

I do I have pretty samurai boundaries at this point, I will say but is easier because of the team agreements that we live within. And that's why we only change communities, we don't change just leaders because when you have team agreements, things become much easier. So as an example, we have a team agreement at our company, that we are what's called a row a results only work environment. And because everybody knows that they know that the only thing that matters in the wide world of our employing them is their results. We don't care where they work, when they work, we just care that at the end, they move the right needle, it just remind me I was I hired this woman away from a very typical corporate environment. And she was so unused to that team agreement, she'd come in and say, my husband and I, it's our anniversary, and we were thinking of going a little early to dinner. And I would say fine, it's a results only work environment, she'd say my youngest needs to the pediatrician. And I had to keep reassuring her over and over and over. That sitting in a particular chair for a particular duration of time was not the value system. And when we finally broke her of that old philosophy, it was very empowering. You can have team agreements around so many things, email, communication, notifications, saying no family prioritization. And when you make those team agreements, you kind of sew them all together, and boom, you've made a quilt that is your culture.

David Novak 13:29

What's the process, you use Juliet to really get a team agreement?

Juliet Funt 13:34

I mean, I guess there is honestly sort of a top down essence with us where we're small and nimble enough that we were basically living the philosophy of the book. So the for us the double checking every day is, is there anything in this book? Is there anything in our teaching that we don't earnestly live, and everybody's just checking against that IP to be specific, and not every company has that they have mission statements and visions and values, but they sit on the wall. In fact, I was on the phone this morning with a client in Nigeria, and they were very proud of this thing they call B E. QED, which is an acronym that stands for all the things they want their culture to be, I can't remember what they are brave, engaged, empowered, etc. And the buyer was very proud that every single employee could say the word be, you know, the acronym ve QED, and knew what it meant. And I asked her, How does that show up behaviorally? What are the things that they actually do to live into a reality of B QED? And there was silence? Because we don't translate those mission and vision statements down into here's what this looks like in the movie of your life. I want you to do this. I'll give you another example. I was just on with a large tech company. And they are doing something that is also a problem about translating team agreements down. They're trying to do it through narrative Which means they have a big organization. And all the leaders are running around saying, Send less emails, say no to meetings, but it's just what they're saying. There's no framework. So there's an awful lot of potential pitfalls that people fall into. I think the team agreements do tend to stem from the leaders personality. And usually it's the most senior leader that people are mimicking and following. I don't think team agreements are as easy to organizationally build from the bottom up. Yeah, so

David Novak 15:26

you really believe it's the Chateau UCaaS is the leader that other people are basically following when it when it relates to the kind of culture you're creating in your company,

Juliet Funt 15:35

and the culture and the values, you know, if you're a big superduper, giant, senior executive, and you say I'm leaving at 345, for a dance recital, you've changed 1000s of people's lives from that inadvertent modeling. And conversely, if you're sending emails at 7am, on Sunday morning, and lo pissed when you don't get a fast response, then you're, you're setting the opposite tone.

David Novak 15:57

I went to my daughter's field hockey games always scheduled him made sure I went, I always used to say, hey, look, you know, if you've got something important like that, in your family, go do it. But if there's work that needs to be done, you figure out, you know how to get that done. But make sure you, you make what you think is a priority for your family a true priority? How do you feel about that kind of statement, that kind of approach?

Juliet Funt 16:20

I think it's beautiful, as long as it's true. So there's a really tempting dualistic message where a leader might say, and I don't think this would be you, because I've heard about your heart centered approach. But if there's a leader who runs the party line, and says, Please take off for family, but then when people do take off for family, they get a scowl or a little mini eye roll or a little bit of a silent message, that you are not a team player. And that duality that gap between the leader what they say and what they actually live into. drives people a little bit crazy, I have to say,

David Novak 16:59

I've heard you talk about and, you know, I've read your your thinking about what you call the thieves of productivity. Could you walk us through those and explain why they're so important to be aware of as we lead our teams,

Juliet Funt 17:13

let me give the context. And then I'll teach the thieves because the context is so important. So that word you loved D crap, a phi is about waste. It's all junk, the CCC emails, the reports that nobody reads, that sense of wasteful work has a dollarized double number to it. And the reason I know that is we do this we take salary data, we find the value of one hour, we find out what people report as waste, we cut the waste number in half, because people like to complain, and then we dollarized it and we tend to see about a million dollars of waste. For every 50 people in an organization. What is that waste? That's low value work taking talent time. So in order to change that, you have to find out where the leak is coming from what's the source of all of this sort of swirling busyness? And what we found is that it comes from four places. And what's ironic about the thieves, these four things, is that they are good things, they are assets, and they have just accidentally run amok. They're drive, excellence, information, and activity. And all of them are things that you'd look for, you'd hire for Drive excellence, being informed being active, but in the age of overload, they morph and drive becomes overdrive excellence turns into perfectionism information slides into information overload, and then activity just becomes frenzy. They are the reason that we keep aggregating all of this nonsense work. And so you have to understand them so that you can cut them off at the source. And that's a big part of our framework is what is the methodology after being aware of that? And how do you begin to tame the seeps?

David Novak 19:04

You know, I would think about when I look at myself, I'd say drive would probably be my issue, particularly when I was coming up in my career, I would go from Drive to overdrive and you know, really try to show everybody how ambitious I was what I was trying to get done. And you know, I've worked around the clock, so drive was a great thing, but I probably took it too far. Do you have a thief that you have to fight every day?

Juliet Funt 19:25

Oh, absolutely. Mine is excellence. I'm a rabid wild perfectionist, I'm watching these three boys. I have grown up 1214 16 just praying that somehow they've avoided it, but they have two perfectionistic parents and they're absolutely you know, Apple to the tree. And that that can be a beautiful thing. Now, maybe when I'm doing four iterations of a business card and sending it back because the tail is not right. That's not quite what we want. But you know, they all have beautiful qualities. My perfectionism is responsible for so much specificity, beauty, thoughtfulness in my work, but it also can Time a to unnecessary overkill in lots of directions and your drive is beautiful got you where you are makes things happen. It can create scope. But if misused, it can exhaust and it can overwhelm. And it can also have too many different plates spinning at the same time, I'll tell you a thief story, this guy named Steve Martin, it's not the Steve Martin, but that was his name, was a data scientist at Microsoft. And they came to him, they said, We need a whole bunch of collateral for the sales team. Can you explain all your smart guy stuff to the sales team with a bunch of decks and PDFs, and he had a sense that it was unimportant work, he had a sense that it was the thief of information just poking at him. But he decided to comply with the request. And what he did is he built all the stuff. But he played my father would have been proud one of the greatest efficiency pranks of all time, in every piece of collateral on the third page, he put a nice box, not sneaky. That said, if you're actually reading this far, email me and I'll send you an Amazon gift card for 50 bucks. And nobody ever wrote him because nobody ever got that far. That's funny in any of the stuff. And then the team came back to him. And they said, We need more stuff for the following year. And he was able to say, No, you don't. And by the way, none of you guys in your pre program review who requested the material even made it to the page where these offers were hidden. So it's so rife in our environment, but we can begin to exercise it one thing at a time.

David Novak 21:36

You know, in your book, you also you write that, at work, expectations around pace, are so ingrained in us, we simply did not see them faster is better. And work is competition. We're speed is a prime category to be judged. Talk to me about the idea of what you call hallucinated urgency,

Juliet Funt 21:56

I think people need, there's so much going on. They just need something that catches their attention. And boy, the hallucinated urgency thing makes them say Amen, that is me. It's everywhere. It's, it's every element of time sensitivity is flattened. And there's just this sense of as soon as possible is the timeframe for every single touch. So how do we unwind that? Well, we teach this is a team agreement that you can teach, you teach that there are three levels of urgency in the real world when you're not tripping. And here's, here's what they are. Something can be non time sensitive. If you're a leader, you have to shine a giant spotlight on that, because no one will ever know that you intend for something to be not time sensitive, but it does exist, then things can be tactically time sensitive. And this is the subset where how fast you go, actually does in fact, influence a business result. This is where we care about speed. But then there's this giant catch all that's so interesting of emotionally time sensitive, and emotionally time sensitive simply means it's masquerading, as tactically time sensitive, but in reality, I'm just curious, or I'm anxious, or I really want to get a response right away. None of those things have a tactical tie, to getting good work done. And so when you have this language, you can kind of begin to check in with each other and say, is there an element of emotional time sensitivity here? Is it possible this is actually not time sensitive? Is there really a tactical urgency here? And it gives teams wonderful ways to talk about it?

David Novak 23:38

Where you have to, I'm sure create shared experiences within your team so that you can get this alignment? Is that a critical component of your training?

Juliet Funt 23:46

Yes, we train companies in a one business quarter process. It's about 12 weeks, we teach from the leaders down, and then we teach everybody together. So when everybody is in a cadence learning something, let's say we're, we got 1000 people, and this week, we're all talking about hallucinated urgency, even if it's just a small amount of time, it's amazing to see the viral activity of a huge group of people or even a small group of people who are thinking about the same thing. At the same time that has previously been unaddressed. A lot of things we teach are not even novel. They're just an excuse for common sense to turn into common practice and for people to say, Listen, we have to stop doing this or we have to start doing that. You'd be amazed at how smart people can solve some of this when they slow down and when they have the space.

David Novak 24:42

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Juliet font in just a moment. As the leader you influence your company's culture more than you realize. The man I've learned the most from when it comes to scaling the right kind of culture is Larry sin, the chairman of sin Delaney and the actual Father and founder of the idea of corporate culture,

Larry Senn 25:03

how do you change habits as adults? How do you get successful people who may be too territorial or too controlling, or wanting power? People need epiphany, they need aha moments in order to change behaviors. So I said, Hey, I'm an engineer, why don't I engineer a series of exercises, which create a Tiffanys, around things like accountability, collaboration, positive spirit, coaching and feed. So that's the heart of what we call inside base, or experiential learning, which is really the engine that drives our culture shaping work.

David Novak 25:35

So what kind of culture are you creating? And how can you improve that part of your leadership? Go back and listen to my conversation with Larry syn, Episode 71, here on how leaders lead.

Unknown Speaker 25:53

You also

David Novak 25:53

have a strategy for leaders that you call a wedge, talking about how that can help us in the fast paced environments that you know, we obviously all work in these days.

Juliet Funt 26:03

Yes, we should talk about the wedge. And then we should segue into the wedge for meetings because I think post COVID We have to touch meetings, people are in such pain. But the wedge is the foundational tool of getting whitespace to be real for you. It's a big problem. Even for leaders, when people think I need 15 3060 minutes of space, it's just it might not happen for you. But if you start with interstitial, you imagine if you could see my fingers, they're pointed together, like a church steeple pointing upwards, imagine a wedge of space, 30 seconds, 10 seconds a minute, inserted in between activities that previously were connected. So between a project and picking up the next one, or between getting a difficult email and responding to it, or between driving into your driveway and stepping out to family, you're opening your ad these little minutes, a minute, a few seconds, two minutes, five minutes. And now you're oxygenating the day without the scary prospect of I'm going to block 60 minutes of whitespace, which I'll tell you in the beginning and even later can be hard for people. So the wedge is super accessible, and everyone can do it.

David Novak 27:21

That totally makes sense. And you know, how does it work in this, you know, hopefully, post COVID environment,

Juliet Funt 27:26

I'll tell you that probably the most popular rule post COVID is a use of the wedge. And it's a meeting where we should talk a little bit about these meetings. Meetings used to have a little bit of a timeframe. Now, of course, the workday has expanded, Bloomberg is telling us two and a half hours longer is what we're working every day. Because we've lost the edges, we don't have the boundary in the morning, we don't have the boundary in the evening, global teams even worse, more of an excuse to talk to China and Australia at insane times of the day and night. So we are going to have to as a leadership community globally, rewrite the norms of COVID, we're going to have to replace the brackets at the beginning and the end of the day, then we're going to have to change that paint swatch. Remember I said it was like color, color, color, color color. And the foundational rule that you can play with really easy one to try and teach is never let the colors touch. Because if you're looking at your if we opened our outlook right now, and we looked at one day, you probably see all the colors touching. But if you were to follow the rule of never let the colors touch what that means is you would see stripes, there'd be white stripes of 510 15 minute breaks in between each and every meeting following the rule, never let the colors touch.

David Novak 28:42

If I could for a second, I'd like to go back a little bit and dive deeper into your background. You know, you mentioned that your father was Alan fun, you know, tell us about your upbringing. And if you could tell us a story about when you were a kid that really influenced the type of leader you are today.

Juliet Funt 29:00

My parents had a lot of what we would call it service in the Jewish community. There's a lot of difficulty before they got divorced. And there was a specific day. I don't know honestly, whether this is a positive or negative. But my dad, like a lot of creatives had a temper. And it was part of his genius just exploding out in a lot of different directions. And my mother took me aside one day and said she was trying to figure out a way to calm things down as the divorce was approaching. I don't think it was the greatest advice, but she was reaching and she said, We're the nurses and he's a patient. We just have to keep the patient comfortable. And I think that this played into my leadership but in a negative way, which is there are many, many years where I would keep another person happy at my own expense. I think in the early years of my career, I figured out what others might want want from me as a leader, and I became a good chameleon molding into that. And if I was with people who are a little bit more conservative, maybe I would, wouldn't ever change my truth or what I would say in content, but I would just sort of dress a little bit more conservative. Or maybe if I was with my hippie friends from our alternative school, I would lean a little bit more in that direction, that chameleon thing honestly, I think I've never spoken about this on a podcast, but I think it came out of this idea of it's your responsibility to make other people comfortable. And I think that there was a time around 10 years ago, where I began to really, really break with that, and as part of aging and part of confidence. And and it's been so positive to have enough objectivity to see that that was a trend for me. I know, you meant to say a positive leadership trait, but it was difficult period. And I look back on it, grateful to have clarity. I think it

David Novak 30:55

didn't this actually ended up being a positive leadership trait for you. I mean, it actually, you know, it took you a while to realize that but you know, did you have an aha moment where you've said, hey, you know, this isn't really right for me?

Juliet Funt 31:08

Yes, I did. And it was pretty funny. I used to teach a lot of kids in the very early years, I was doing a lot of youth and education stuff. And a middle school asked me to write a curriculum about authenticity. And I wrote this piece that we still use to this day about what is the gradation between being authentic, what we call purposeful, authentic, which is your real self, but plus a filter to be appropriate and then contrived, which is where you completely lose yourself. And I don't know if you're familiar with this, but sometimes you can write a teaching. That sounds really good, even if you're not good at the thing, because you're a good writer and a good speaker, when I sat there talking to these nine year olds, and I was thinking, authentic, purposeful, authentic, contrived, and where am I on that gradation? And I really think that needing to write that Xerox handout for a bunch of middle schoolers was when I started noticing that I'm very, very sensitive. If I ever teach anything, that isn't true for me, I said that earlier in our team agreements, it sits with me like a rash. And I don't think it was true for me. And I think that that was a moment where I began to make it more true. So that

David Novak 32:28

was a great learning for you. It took you a while, you know, but you know, I think in life, we all have to kind of work through those issues that we struggle with, you know, and you got there. And you seem to be doing pretty well. Now, Juliet, you know, and I understand that you take your family all over the world to experience different cultures, and you've been really doing this the past few years. What was the genesis of that idea?

Juliet Funt 32:54

Oh, goody. Let's talk about travel. So there's a thing a lot of people don't know about called World schooling. And it's actually a movement, they have websites, there are conferences, and we came across that about three and a half years ago, we decided to go out and trade school for travel. And we took our kids to we lived in about 14 countries over the course of two and a half years before the pandemic hit. And it was just it was so fascinating. From a leadership point of view, talk about confidence and authenticity. In the beginning, I thought, can I tell big shots at Microsoft and Nike that I'm you know, calling in from Bali or Croatia or wherever the heck we were from a, you know, a sailboat or a beach. And I found that as you started being is like actually another lesson in authenticity. When we started talking about it, it became the alluring whitespace victory story of all time that if you could live this way, and still run a team that was doing active high level work, and still get work done, and have that kind of flexibility, then it really became a very magnetic exciting story for people and there was no need to hide it. But we had a marvelous time we did. We called it skill chill. So we would pick different skills that we wanted the boys to learn or that I wanted to learn. And then in the middle between the skills, we would chill we did leatherworking. In Italy, we did sailing in Croatia, we did charity work in Myanmar, we went on this really fascinating trip before Myanmar was too dangerous to go there. And a COVID did cut us short, but it's probably the greatest thing that I ever had a chance to do.

David Novak 34:33

That is just incredible. And I hope a lot of listeners take that into account and figure out how they can do it in whatever way that can work for them and their lives. You know, what are you working on right now, Juliette, that you're most excited about? What's really got your juices flowing?

Juliet Funt 34:48

Okay, good question, because it's very, very clear to me. We had announced in December after we launched a giant book with HarperCollins and read it every course that we He owned and built a whole bunch of new courses during COVID, that 2022 was going to be the year of no new things. And this year, we are doing nothing new, we are just doubling down and enjoying and perfecting and nuancing the things that we already have. And I have to tell you that this boundary of the year of no new things has turned into such a liberating concept that I have a very strong thought that 2022 is going to be the sequel of the year of no new things, part two, because it gives you a way a really great way. Not right now this new partnership, right? Not right now, this new mastermind not right now, this new hire this new product, it the crutch of it has really shown me how much depth we want to and can create and things that we've already built, instead of just skipping a rock to the next goal or project or request from a client. And it's hardest when they do come to you and say we want this will you build it, but I'm pretty strong. And we've been saying No, and it's going fantastic.

David Novak 36:02

You know, you and I have I think maybe something in common. You know, I like to think of myself as a creative person. And you're obviously a very creative person. And I used to say that sometimes the worst thing that could happen to the organization is I actually had a day when I didn't have anything to do. Okay, because I would come up with new things to do before we'd actually done the things that needed to be done. When you saying no new things was that a big challenge for you?

Juliet Funt 36:30

Oh was huge. It was huge. And I think three days later or something that first week in January, some big client from Vanguard came in and said, will you build this, you know, Shrimati schema for us? And I had to say no. But we had not even touched the depth of things that we'd already started. And then I don't know what that comes from that skittering along the top of quantity of ideas that are not really plumbed, and not really nurtured. And I'm not kidding, we may extend it to next year, because it's just been wonderful. And everybody has been able to calm down and think about what they care about. And think about how things could just be better and better and better. The little things that we already have talked about being a perfectionist, to look at the coursework, the way we talk to clients, the way we're sharing the book, you get that kind of freedom, business is better than it's ever been. And we're doing nothing new, nothing. What trends

David Novak 37:25

are you seeing right now, in the successful companies, you get to consult with it that we can really learn from,

Juliet Funt 37:32

I think the biggest trend that I care about right now is who is in charge of the hybrid direction. I think that hybrid is such a worrisome phase that we're about to go into, I think real human beings, they were comfortable at work, then they got comfortable at home. Now we're going to rip them out of their newly established home offices and ask them to come in a little here and a little there. And then they're going to make the schlepping and there'll be all by themselves on zoom all day long. Because the other people who volitionally didn't have to be in are not in it's just a mess. So I have a real bias that employees have to drive hybrid design. And that employee surveys and employ questioning and skip level meetings have to drive hybrid design. And I will tell you my truth. I've actually never said this on a podcast because we were just deciding whether I could commit to this or not. But my real advice to these companies that we're talking to, you have to understand also this very tied to the great resignation, people are just sick of this and they're finally leaving. So it's a it's a retention issue. Also, my advice is to find certain days, and certain memorable moments that are mandatory. And then let everybody choose everything else on their own. If you say we're going to be in the office Tuesday and Thursday, but everybody gets to decide if they come in or not, it's just turning out to be a mess. And if you say that we have to be in all the time, you're going to lose a lot of good people. If you say we're going to be home all the time, all your boomers are going to be to cut off from the intimacy that they require with their, with their peers. So my belief is that the way out of the woods is to really pick our battles. Maybe it's one day a week, maybe it's one day a week plus certain events and on those times everybody's in and then the rest of the time it's an autonomy question the part of it that we have to think through and we're actually consulting with some corporate realtor towels of ours is you know your if you did that you'd be leaving a lot of real estate pretty empty for an a very expensive part of the week. But it may just be worth it to give people a feeling of freedom in such a difficult time. And this is the issue that we're I wouldn't say we're through it yet, but we're talking and talking and talking about it.

David Novak 39:50

You know, Juliet, this has been so much fun and I like to have a little bit more with you with some rapid fire questions. Are you ready for this?

Juliet Funt 39:57

Oh, fun. Okay, good

David Novak 39:59

for three words that best describe you.

Juliet Funt 40:01

perky, smart. Open.

David Novak 40:04

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself who would it be? And why?

Juliet Funt 40:09

Marie Forleo because I have a giant fan girl crush on her.

David Novak 40:13

Your biggest pet peeve.

Juliet Funt 40:16

Oh, biggest pet peeve husband half finishing the dishes at night leaving three items mysteriously undone when the rest of the kitchen is clean.

David Novak 40:26

The favorite country you visited.

Juliet Funt 40:29

Oh my gosh New Zealand hands down no contest,

David Novak 40:32

a book about leadership that you've learned the most from?

Juliet Funt 40:36

Oh my god, there are so many I'm in love with at your best right now carry Neuhoff I'll have to just give you current instead of forever.

David Novak 40:42

What's something about you that few people would know

Juliet Funt 40:45

that I was bitten by a tiger,

David Novak 40:47

really? Out of that app and

Juliet Funt 40:51

my husband is a travel photographer. We were doing a photo shoot with the studios with these two baby tigers and I have a little tiger scar. It's my proudest moment.

David Novak 40:59

The best pizza place in New York City. Well, res da. And your favorite Candid Camera moment.

Juliet Funt 41:08

Cinderella, you'll have to look it up Google Candid Camera Cinderella.

David Novak 41:13

And what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to improve as a leader?

Juliet Funt 41:19

Take a minute to think.

David Novak 41:20

And you know, Juliet, I have to ask you one last question. Because you know, I've heard you talk about this. And it's very, very powerful. There's a story in your book that reminds us why doing work to build the habit of pauses is so important. And and you actually call the story, the ride. I'd like to wrap this up, if you could just tell us about the ride.

Juliet Funt 41:46

I often think that my entire life's work is to facilitate a corporate company that just gets me to the point where I get to share that one story. So I'm glad that you asked that. That's very touching. There's a woman who came up to me after an event. She said she wanted to tell me a story. And she said that when she was a little girl, her father came to her and said, Let's pack a picnic. And let's go get mama and let's go for a good old fashioned joy ride in the country. And they went into the kitchen and they made ham and cheese sandwiches and pink lemonade. And they went to get mom who was busy. And Mama said, I'm too busy. But you guys have a great time. And they did. They had a really marvelous time. And they drove and drove until the sun went down. And he died two days later. And she told me that her mother talked about that choice for the rest of her life. And she would be kind of found in little corners of the house talking to herself saying I didn't take the ride. And I had little kids at the time only had to. I didn't tell that story for a little while it was sort of just becoming ready inside of me. And one day I was sitting at the kitchen table I'm pounding away at my laptop, and my husband is in the backyard. He has a two year old and four year old. They're both naked, they each have their own hose and they're washing the car. And he texted me in the kitchen. I'm pounding away on the laptop. He says pretty cute out here if you have a second. And I texted back really fast, no busy. And then that story came to visit and it lifted me out of the chair I got so nervous that I knocked the chair over trying to get out there. And that story is the reason that we're supposed to be doing everything. It's it's the reason that work is supposed to be put to bed at some point so that the rest of life can occur. And what's really sad about the extension of the workday is is less and less time for that to happen. I know that COVID has let people also spend more time with their family. But the focus time is what's really important to me. So I hope that that story does as much for people as it does for me over and over when I think about it. Well, Julie

David Novak 44:05

and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you giving us your focus time this past hour. I think any leader could just glean so many insights on how to lead, how to leverage your time, how to create a better work environment for your people from this conversation. So I thank you very much.

Unknown Speaker 44:25

Nice to meet you do.

David Novak 44:34

Whew, I got to tell you as a father, that closing story really touched my heart. And it really showed me what's at stake if we don't apply what we heard from Juliet in this conversation. And the good news is we can learn to fight against business and take control of our lives again. What's great is we can start small one minute at a time. This week is part of your weekly personal development plan. Here's what I want do take a look at that calendar of yours. Is there any whitespace? Or are the colors touching. And if it's all filled up, see if you can make some adjustments and build in some white spaces. If it's at all possible, carve an hour out to reflect on your own leadership and the business and just see what you can come up with. Get some real quiet time where he can actually take the time to look out the window and reflect. Like I mentioned in this episode, that was one of my favorite rituals. As a CEO. I like to get my office, be alone and look out the window and just think about what we needed to do what I needed to do to better the business and better myself. Believe me, it was a difference maker for me. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is that great leaders take a minute to think. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the very best leader you can be. I'll see you next week.

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