[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2322/define-what-success-looks-like-in-a-job-before-you-post-it","id",2322,"title","Define what success looks like in a job before you post it","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.400\nI think Amazon got famous for this that before they build products,\n\n2\n00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:08.040\nthey write out the press release of what they want the product to highlight and\n\n3\n00:00:08.040 --> 00:00:09.700\nwhat pain point it's going to solve.\n\n4\n00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:13.680\nAnd similar for a job description, whether it's writing out the actual job\n\n5\n00:00:13.680 --> 00:00:15.700\ndescription at this point, you have AI doing it,\n\n6\n00:00:15.700 --> 00:00:21.790\nbut solving what is it that you want this role to achieve, what success in this\n\n7\n00:00:21.790 --> 00:00:22.100\nrole,\n\n8\n00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:25.500\nand then what does this type of person look like?\n\n9\n00:00:25.500 --> 00:00:29.800\nAnd without putting it on paper, there is so, and I've made this mistake.\n\n10\n00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:33.730\nSo many times, I think it's very black and white in my brain and that I don't\n\n11\n00:00:33.730 --> 00:00:34.800\nneed to vocalize it.\n\n12\n00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:38.500\nAnd then somebody else thinks it's a completely different idea.\n\n13\n00:00:38.500 --> 00:00:41.100\nAnd then a person appears and like, how did this person get here?\n\n14\n00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:43.500\nThey don't match what I'm looking for at all.\n\n15\n00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:44.800\nAnd how could they?\n\n16\n00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:47.600\nWe never had the conversation to agree up front.\n\n17\n00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.920\nAnd now you've wasted all these people's time interviewing and going through\n\n18\n00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:52.900\nthe process and the candidates time.\n\n19\n00:00:52.900 --> 00:00:57.190\nAnd so so much of writing up front, what success looks like just makes the\n\n20\n00:00:57.190 --> 00:00:59.200\nwhole process more efficient and effective.\n\n21\n00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:03.360\nAnd increases your chances of landing the person you want, which at the end of\n\n22\n00:01:03.360 --> 00:01:05.700\nthe day, it's all about building the right team.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",2414179,"end_time",2479599,"keywords","Hiring, talent management, job description, amazon, clarity, interviewing","slug","define-what-success-looks-like-in-a-job-before-you-post-it","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","1Mgbs02IkquyGbRX9R00PrSBlI1uw10201WiGY4Ap5M6PuY","mux_asset_id","DpMt3Lc402MATa7nGloB5Xwj82epL01oLD02pDir8t1tNs","leader_id",182,"episode_id",333,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:51:10.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2322/define-what-success-looks-like-in-a-job-before-you-post-it","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":111,"_112":113,"_69":114,"_39":115,"_116":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_117":118,"_89":119,"_44":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_46":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_93":129,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Make bold connections","make-bold-connections","Learn how to ruffle some feathers and bring boldness to your career and relationships. Discover practical ways to get more from your social media strategy. Plus, what you might be getting wrong in your job postings.","summary","

Has social media ever felt a little mystifying to you?

If so, you’ll love today’s episode with Irina Novoselsky, the CEO of the social media management platform Hootsuite.

Get practical tips to improve your social media strategy, including tips for boosting ROI.

Plus, discover the career-transforming power of making bold connections—something that Irina excels at.

You’ll also learn:

Three ways leaders can maximize their use of social media
How to open up new career opportunities
What you might be getting wrong in your job postings
A new way to develop mentor relationships

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.600\nHey everyone, it's Kula from Three More Questions.\n\n2\n00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:04.680\nAnd before we get started with today's interview,\n\n3\n00:00:04.680 --> 00:00:06.840\nI want to remind you to pick up your copy\n\n4\n00:00:06.840 --> 00:00:09.960\nof David's brand new book, How Leaders Learn.\n\n5\n00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.720\nIt's been so fun seeing all the great reviews\n\n6\n00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:13.680\nthat have come in.\n\n7\n00:00:13.680 --> 00:00:15.760\nI want to read you one from Indra Nui.\n\n8\n00:00:15.760 --> 00:00:18.320\nShe's the former CEO of PepsiCo.\n\n9\n00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:21.000\nShe and David worked together for a number of years.\n\n10\n00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.040\nIndra has read the book and here's what she says about it.\n\n11\n00:00:24.040 --> 00:00:25.520\n\"Beautifully written.\n\n12\n00:00:25.520 --> 00:00:28.960\nEasy to understand the examples he cites and the lessons.\n\n13\n00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:31.480\nIn a typical David Novak, Folksy style,\n\n14\n00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:33.000\nthe book is fun to read.\n\n15\n00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:36.080\nYou'll feel you are in those pages.\n\n16\n00:00:36.080 --> 00:00:38.000\nGet a copy and sit back with it.\n\n17\n00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:40.240\nYou are going to love the book.\"\n\n18\n00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:41.840\nIndra Nui loves the book.\n\n19\n00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:43.680\nThere are hundreds of others who have already gotten\n\n20\n00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:46.160\ntheir copy and are loving the book as well.\n\n21\n00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:48.080\nSo if you haven't yet,\n\n22\n00:00:48.080 --> 00:00:50.560\norder your copy of How Leaders Learn today.\n\n23\n00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.440\nAnd I promise you're going to love it.\n\n24\n00:00:57.280 --> 00:01:00.080\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead where every week you get to listen in\n\n25\n00:01:00.080 --> 00:01:03.400\nwhile I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n26\n00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:06.520\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode,\n\n27\n00:01:06.520 --> 00:01:08.480\nyou'll have something simple you can apply\n\n28\n00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:10.880\nas you develop into a better leader.\n\n29\n00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:13.960\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n30\n00:01:13.960 --> 00:01:17.960\nIf social media has ever felt a little mystifying to you,\n\n31\n00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:20.560\nthen you hit play on the right episode today\n\n32\n00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:24.240\nbecause I'm sitting down with Irina Novaselski,\n\n33\n00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:28.880\nthe CEO of the Social Media Management Platform, Hootsuite.\n\n34\n00:01:28.880 --> 00:01:31.040\nShe's got a lot of practical tips for you today\n\n35\n00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:33.640\non how you can improve your social media strategy\n\n36\n00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:37.080\nand actually start to dial in the return it gives you.\n\n37\n00:01:37.080 --> 00:01:39.000\nBut that's just the beginning.\n\n38\n00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.880\nWhen you hear Irina's story,\n\n39\n00:01:40.880 --> 00:01:42.720\nwhich starts in the Ukraine,\n\n40\n00:01:42.720 --> 00:01:45.000\nyou'll see how you can transform your career\n\n41\n00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.520\nby making bold connections.\n\n42\n00:01:47.520 --> 00:01:50.000\nHer ability to boldly defy conventions\n\n43\n00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:54.240\nwhile also building relationships is a powerful combination.\n\n44\n00:01:54.240 --> 00:01:57.800\nAnd it's a mentality every leader needs to develop.\n\n45\n00:01:57.800 --> 00:01:59.480\nSo let's dive in.\n\n46\n00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:01.840\nHere's my conversation with my good friend\n\n47\n00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:05.040\nand soon to be yours, Irina Novaselski.\n\n48\n00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:13.120\nI was just talking to you before we went on\n\n49\n00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.280\nand you said your dad called you today.\n\n50\n00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:18.040\nTell us about that conversation 'cause I loved it.\n\n51\n00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:20.080\nI was telling him about a problem I had at work\n\n52\n00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:22.240\nand he called me back and goes, I have an idea.\n\n53\n00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:24.560\nYou should put it into chat GPT\n\n54\n00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.920\nand they'll help you figure out the answer.\n\n55\n00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:29.400\nAnd it was just such a humbling moment\n\n56\n00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.200\nof you're constantly supposed to be learning.\n\n57\n00:02:32.200 --> 00:02:34.080\n- And how old's your dad?\n\n58\n00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:35.440\n- He's in his late 80s.\n\n59\n00:02:35.440 --> 00:02:38.560\n- Yeah, so he's learning as we speak, right?\n\n60\n00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:42.680\n- Chat GPT might be his personal advisor at this point.\n\n61\n00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.600\n(laughs)\n\n62\n00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:44.920\n- I love it.\n\n63\n00:02:44.920 --> 00:02:47.400\nAnd now I understand not surprisingly\n\n64\n00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:49.920\nthat you start your day on social media.\n\n65\n00:02:49.920 --> 00:02:52.000\nWhat does that routine look like?\n\n66\n00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:53.240\n- It's embarrassing.\n\n67\n00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.760\nAnd I finally have a job where it is considered work\n\n68\n00:02:56.760 --> 00:02:57.760\nand it's okay.\n\n69\n00:02:57.760 --> 00:02:58.760\n(laughs)\n\n70\n00:02:58.760 --> 00:03:00.800\nIt's, you know, in all the health books that you read,\n\n71\n00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.800\nyou're supposed to go straight into sunlight.\n\n72\n00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.080\nYou're supposed to be outside.\n\n73\n00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:06.760\nThe last thing you're supposed to do is look at your phone.\n\n74\n00:03:06.760 --> 00:03:07.960\nBut I literally do that.\n\n75\n00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.120\nI pick up my phone and I just go through\n\n76\n00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:12.480\nall the social media channels.\n\n77\n00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:14.280\nIt gives me such a great sense of what people\n\n78\n00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:16.120\nare talking about, what's trending,\n\n79\n00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:19.360\nwhat is top of mind for our customers\n\n80\n00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.360\nas they're targeting their own customers.\n\n81\n00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.080\nAnd so it is my way of just staying in the loop\n\n82\n00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.160\nbefore I dive into the whole of work.\n\n83\n00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:28.800\n- Well, I can't wait to dive in\n\n84\n00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:30.960\nand learn how you're leading Hootsuite.\n\n85\n00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:33.560\nAnd first of all, I want to take you back\n\n86\n00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:35.400\nand start at the beginning.\n\n87\n00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:37.200\nWhat's the story from your childhood\n\n88\n00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:39.760\nthat shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n89\n00:03:39.760 --> 00:03:41.640\n- I would probably say two things.\n\n90\n00:03:41.640 --> 00:03:46.000\nWe came here with very little financial resources.\n\n91\n00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.760\nAnd one of the things that I learned really quickly is\n\n92\n00:03:49.760 --> 00:03:51.720\nit's not how much you make that determines\n\n93\n00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:54.880\nthe character of a person or the value of a person.\n\n94\n00:03:54.880 --> 00:03:57.520\nAnd it materially just changed my perspective\n\n95\n00:03:57.520 --> 00:03:59.880\non having a successful job\n\n96\n00:03:59.880 --> 00:04:01.840\ndoesn't make you a successful person.\n\n97\n00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.280\nAnd seeing how people just work really hard\n\n98\n00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.280\nand sometimes don't have the luxury or the luck in life\n\n99\n00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:10.720\nto get into a role that they're passionate about,\n\n100\n00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:12.080\nthat they just have to work\n\n101\n00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:14.160\nbecause it's financially important.\n\n102\n00:04:14.160 --> 00:04:17.760\nAnd it just immediately humbles you when you think about that.\n\n103\n00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:21.960\nAnd it's a gratitude that I've kept throughout my life.\n\n104\n00:04:21.960 --> 00:04:25.160\nIt also has enabled me to see potential in people\n\n105\n00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:27.560\noutside of the experience.\n\n106\n00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.360\nSo one of the things that I really appreciate is\n\n107\n00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:32.960\nI don't really care so much have you done the job.\n\n108\n00:04:32.960 --> 00:04:34.260\nIt's can you do it?\n\n109\n00:04:34.260 --> 00:04:37.520\nAnd I think that stems a lot from just watching\n\n110\n00:04:37.520 --> 00:04:39.720\nthe people around me just do things.\n\n111\n00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.200\nAnd they may never have had the experience to learn\n\n112\n00:04:42.200 --> 00:04:44.840\nor someone teach them how and it's just that character\n\n113\n00:04:44.840 --> 00:04:47.360\nof perseverance and figuring it out.\n\n114\n00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:49.360\nThat's one, I think the second thing\n\n115\n00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:52.160\nis a little bit of this power of no.\n\n116\n00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.480\nI think if you are, as an immigrant when I came here,\n\n117\n00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.920\nif somebody told me how hard certain things would have been,\n\n118\n00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:01.040\nI don't know if I would have had the gumption\n\n119\n00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.520\nto go and power through it.\n\n120\n00:05:03.520 --> 00:05:06.240\nBut one step at a time when somebody tells you\n\n121\n00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.920\nthat's not possible, you see all these people around you\n\n122\n00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:11.880\nthat come and learn a new language and find a job\n\n123\n00:05:11.880 --> 00:05:14.240\nand overcome all of these obstacles\n\n124\n00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:18.600\nthat it puts your own day to day paths of no in perspective\n\n125\n00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:20.080\nto think, okay, well, if you can move\n\n126\n00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:21.680\nto a whole nother country and start over,\n\n127\n00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:24.400\nI can solve this little problem where this no\n\n128\n00:05:24.400 --> 00:05:26.080\nis not really a realistic no.\n\n129\n00:05:26.080 --> 00:05:28.800\nAnd so it just changes your whole perspective\n\n130\n00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:30.120\nof what's possible.\n\n131\n00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:31.520\n- You know, speaking of jobs,\n\n132\n00:05:31.520 --> 00:05:34.200\ntell us about your first job as a kid.\n\n133\n00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:36.520\n- I've had a lot, David, one of the things that,\n\n134\n00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:38.920\nyou know, I as a kid you want things.\n\n135\n00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:41.280\nYou wanna buy ice cream, you want, you know,\n\n136\n00:05:41.280 --> 00:05:43.640\nand I don't know, toys, whatever it is.\n\n137\n00:05:43.640 --> 00:05:44.800\nAnd the environment I grew up,\n\n138\n00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.320\nthere was no way I was gonna ask my parents.\n\n139\n00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:49.000\nI knew how tight financials were.\n\n140\n00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:52.360\nAnd so if I wanted anything, I had to earn it myself.\n\n141\n00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:54.600\nAnd one of the things I saw in my development\n\n142\n00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.280\nand it was everything from we would have garage sales,\n\n143\n00:05:57.280 --> 00:05:59.920\nI would have my parents go to Sam's Club at the time\n\n144\n00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:02.520\nand buy water bottles and sell them for a dollar.\n\n145\n00:06:02.520 --> 00:06:06.720\nI would do yard work, I would do car cleaning.\n\n146\n00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.960\nYou name it, I had a candy business on the side\n\n147\n00:06:09.960 --> 00:06:11.760\nin middle school where I almost got kicked out.\n\n148\n00:06:11.760 --> 00:06:16.040\nBut it was all about I liked getting people together\n\n149\n00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.520\n'cause I would definitely enlist all the local kids.\n\n150\n00:06:19.520 --> 00:06:21.520\nAnd I liked watching something grow,\n\n151\n00:06:21.520 --> 00:06:25.400\nhow you could take one thing and turn it into something else.\n\n152\n00:06:25.400 --> 00:06:27.920\nAnd it was nice to be able to buy my own candy.\n\n153\n00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:29.960\n- Yeah, I love this story I heard about you.\n\n154\n00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:31.640\nWould you mind sharing with us\n\n155\n00:06:31.640 --> 00:06:33.760\nhow you spent your 16th birthday?\n\n156\n00:06:33.760 --> 00:06:35.680\n- This is real.\n\n157\n00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:39.440\nSo this is kind of what brings me full circle to you.\n\n158\n00:06:39.440 --> 00:06:44.440\nSo Taco Bell was a luxury in our home.\n\n159\n00:06:44.440 --> 00:06:48.200\nAnd anytime we had something really fun to celebrate\n\n160\n00:06:48.200 --> 00:06:50.960\nor important, we would treat ourselves and go to fast food.\n\n161\n00:06:50.960 --> 00:06:53.880\nAnd I come from a family that we did not spend money\n\n162\n00:06:53.880 --> 00:06:56.200\non restaurants or anything like that.\n\n163\n00:06:56.200 --> 00:06:57.960\nAnd so Taco Bell was the treat.\n\n164\n00:06:57.960 --> 00:07:01.320\nAnd so around me, all of my friends were having sweet 16s\n\n165\n00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:03.040\nand this wasn't something,\n\n166\n00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.400\nA, an Eastern European culture you celebrate.\n\n167\n00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:07.760\nB, there was no way I was having a sweet 16 party.\n\n168\n00:07:07.760 --> 00:07:09.200\nAnd so my mom at the time said,\n\n169\n00:07:09.200 --> 00:07:10.920\n\"Well, why don't we go to Taco Bell?\"\n\n170\n00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:13.560\nAnd you can order anything that you want.\n\n171\n00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:15.920\nAnd I remember taking my good friend at the time\n\n172\n00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:17.760\nand you know when you walk in\n\n173\n00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:20.360\nand I just ordered four or five things off that menu\n\n174\n00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:24.600\nand I felt so rich to just be able to go crazy and wild\n\n175\n00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:25.640\non this menu.\n\n176\n00:07:25.640 --> 00:07:28.520\nAnd we sat and we had the taco supreme.\n\n177\n00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:30.840\nWe had, I mean, we ate it all.\n\n178\n00:07:30.840 --> 00:07:34.840\nAnd it was one of the happiest birthdays that I celebrated.\n\n179\n00:07:34.840 --> 00:07:36.960\nAnd it's, I still to this day,\n\n180\n00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:39.600\nwhenever I go on long car rides,\n\n181\n00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.760\nI cannot drive by a Taco Bell without a stop.\n\n182\n00:07:42.760 --> 00:07:46.080\nAnd my new favorite orders is the Dorito Tacos,\n\n183\n00:07:46.080 --> 00:07:47.000\nthe cool ranch,\n\n184\n00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:50.480\nbut it held a really special place in my childhood.\n\n185\n00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:52.920\n- I'm gonna get David Gibbs, the Yum CEO\n\n186\n00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:55.680\nto send you some coupons so you can even save more money.\n\n187\n00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:57.520\nThat'll be great, you know?\n\n188\n00:07:57.520 --> 00:08:00.920\nYou came over here as an immigrant from the Ukraine\n\n189\n00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.120\nand you say being an immigrant gives you both hunger\n\n190\n00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:06.720\nand hope.\n\n191\n00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:07.880\nTalk more about that.\n\n192\n00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:11.800\n- You know, I think that there's two lotteries in life,\n\n193\n00:08:11.800 --> 00:08:13.040\ntwo main ones.\n\n194\n00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.680\nOne is the parents you're born to, you don't control that\n\n195\n00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:19.480\nand it influences such a material part of your life.\n\n196\n00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:22.680\nAnd the second lottery is the geography.\n\n197\n00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:26.360\nAnd I did not win the geography, you know,\n\n198\n00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:28.280\nI was born in the Soviet Union,\n\n199\n00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:31.960\nbut I won the parent lottery and they were able\n\n200\n00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:33.640\nto take me out of that geography\n\n201\n00:08:33.640 --> 00:08:37.520\nand put me in an environment that is a meritocracy\n\n202\n00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:42.280\nwhere maybe I didn't have the same things that my peers did\n\n203\n00:08:42.280 --> 00:08:45.120\nor I didn't grow up understanding that you have to take\n\n204\n00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.840\nyour SATs to get into college.\n\n205\n00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.200\nThere's a lot of things that I had to learn,\n\n206\n00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.640\nbut it was one of those things where I feel so grateful\n\n207\n00:08:51.640 --> 00:08:54.800\nto be in a country where I can work hard\n\n208\n00:08:54.800 --> 00:08:58.580\nand in one generation go from refugee to CEO.\n\n209\n00:08:58.580 --> 00:09:01.960\nAnd it is a gratitude I carry with me\n\n210\n00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:04.680\nthat it just puts everything in perspective\n\n211\n00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:07.640\nof how do I help influence people around me?\n\n212\n00:09:07.640 --> 00:09:09.320\nHow do I help teams around me?\n\n213\n00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:12.440\nHow do I help people realize their dreams\n\n214\n00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:16.360\nin an environment that also drives similar values?\n\n215\n00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.760\n- You know, that's interesting because people always ask me\n\n216\n00:09:18.760 --> 00:09:20.800\nabout, you know, what was my biggest break.\n\n217\n00:09:20.800 --> 00:09:24.720\nAnd I tell them basically the same thing, you know,\n\n218\n00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.880\nthat I was born to son of Charles and Gene Novak\n\n219\n00:09:28.880 --> 00:09:31.280\nand I was born in the United States of America.\n\n220\n00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:32.840\nAnd when you have loving parents\n\n221\n00:09:32.840 --> 00:09:34.200\nand you're born in this country,\n\n222\n00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.840\nyou're so much ahead of the other, you know,\n\n223\n00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:39.880\n- 100% - 7 billion people in the world.\n\n224\n00:09:39.880 --> 00:09:41.600\nIt's really is amazing.\n\n225\n00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:43.800\nI'm a serious note here or more serious note.\n\n226\n00:09:43.800 --> 00:09:47.280\nYou know, you see all that's been happening over in Ukraine\n\n227\n00:09:47.280 --> 00:09:49.320\nand you come from that part of the world.\n\n228\n00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.440\nYou know, what do you think America should be doing about it?\n\n229\n00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.920\nAre we doing the right things or what's your thoughts on it?\n\n230\n00:09:56.920 --> 00:09:58.400\n- I wish there was a simple solution.\n\n231\n00:09:58.400 --> 00:10:00.720\nI will tell you that when I was watching the war\n\n232\n00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:01.960\nand I was watching it started,\n\n233\n00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:03.520\none of the things that really hit me.\n\n234\n00:10:03.520 --> 00:10:07.280\nAnd I was actually in the process of finalizing\n\n235\n00:10:07.280 --> 00:10:09.640\nand assessing taking this Hootsuite role.\n\n236\n00:10:09.640 --> 00:10:13.920\nAnd I watched how social media materially changed\n\n237\n00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:18.320\nthe future of a country that otherwise,\n\n238\n00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.080\nit would have had a very different result,\n\n239\n00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:24.360\nprobably similar to what happened with Bella Russia and Crimea.\n\n240\n00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:27.320\nAnd one of the reasons that Ukraine as a conversation\n\n241\n00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:30.720\nare able to have right now and not just part of Russia\n\n242\n00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.520\nis because social media happened.\n\n243\n00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:34.360\nAnd all around the world,\n\n244\n00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:37.120\npeople were talking about what was happening\n\n245\n00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:38.560\nand how this was not okay.\n\n246\n00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:43.560\nAnd it just raises what a group of people can do\n\n247\n00:10:43.560 --> 00:10:47.160\neven against one tough opponent,\n\n248\n00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:50.480\nthat the unity of a team, no matter what the team is,\n\n249\n00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:53.880\nwhether it's this combination of world citizens\n\n250\n00:10:53.880 --> 00:10:56.440\ncoming together to say, \"Hey, this is not okay.\n\n251\n00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.720\nWe can fight this. We can do better than this.\"\n\n252\n00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.920\nJust had such a powerful impact on me\n\n253\n00:11:00.920 --> 00:11:02.600\nthat where we are today,\n\n254\n00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:05.560\nthere isn't gonna be a clear answer and clear resolution\n\n255\n00:11:05.560 --> 00:11:08.840\n'cause this is a tough situation\n\n256\n00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:13.000\nwhere there's no really good answer on how to get out of it.\n\n257\n00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:15.680\nBut one of the ways to help make sure that it gets\n\n258\n00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:17.960\nto something that's more positive than where it is today\n\n259\n00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:19.720\nis continuing to talk about it,\n\n260\n00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:21.960\ncontinuing to raise awareness around it.\n\n261\n00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.800\nI think it's when the bullies have a pulpit\n\n262\n00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:28.880\nand nobody standing up is when the world gets really dangerous.\n\n263\n00:11:28.880 --> 00:11:30.200\n- Oh, great point.\n\n264\n00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.280\nThat's a perfect segue and jumping ahead\n\n265\n00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:36.040\nand talking about what you're doing today.\n\n266\n00:11:36.040 --> 00:11:38.000\nGive us a snapshot of Hootsuite\n\n267\n00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:39.960\nand the business that you lead.\n\n268\n00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.040\n- So we are here helping our customers\n\n269\n00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:46.000\naround the world unlock the value\n\n270\n00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.360\nof their social media relationships.\n\n271\n00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:51.120\nAnd I think you'll relate to this a lot, I believe,\n\n272\n00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:52.640\nand we believe that relationships\n\n273\n00:11:52.640 --> 00:11:54.680\nis the number one thing that matters most.\n\n274\n00:11:54.680 --> 00:11:57.000\nWhether it's one-on-one interactions,\n\n275\n00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.120\nwhether it's with your team,\n\n276\n00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:00.800\nand especially on social media.\n\n277\n00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:04.000\nWe have over five billion people that are on social media\n\n278\n00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:06.120\nspending almost two and a half hours a day.\n\n279\n00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:07.640\nAnd David, I'm convinced that that's that\n\n280\n00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:09.480\nis highly underrepresented\n\n281\n00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.760\n'cause people are embarrassed to actually tell you how long\n\n282\n00:12:11.760 --> 00:12:13.800\nand how much they're actually spending on it.\n\n283\n00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:15.360\nBut it's one of the last channels\n\n284\n00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:19.480\nwhere you can have a two-way dialogue with your customers.\n\n285\n00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:22.040\nAnd they're telling you what they think about your product,\n\n286\n00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:25.200\nyour services, what they like, what they don't like.\n\n287\n00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.760\nIt is such a powerful tool to be able to not only listen,\n\n288\n00:12:28.760 --> 00:12:30.880\nbut also respond to your customers.\n\n289\n00:12:30.880 --> 00:12:33.680\nAnd so we are on a mission of taking our secret sauce,\n\n290\n00:12:33.680 --> 00:12:35.760\nwhich is all about relationship building\n\n291\n00:12:35.760 --> 00:12:38.560\nand arming our customers on how do they do that\n\n292\n00:12:38.560 --> 00:12:41.960\non social media to drive impact for their businesses.\n\n293\n00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:44.480\n- And you say that people online want to engage\n\n294\n00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.080\nwith people, not necessarily brands.\n\n295\n00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.520\nGive me an example of a brand that really does that well.\n\n296\n00:12:50.520 --> 00:12:52.360\nI'll give you a few examples.\n\n297\n00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:53.920\nFirst, I think we do it really well.\n\n298\n00:12:53.920 --> 00:12:56.360\nIt's just fun, but the example I'll give you\n\n299\n00:12:56.360 --> 00:12:57.600\nis Sesame Workshop.\n\n300\n00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:58.880\nThey're great.\n\n301\n00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:02.440\nThey get into Elmo's character\n\n302\n00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:07.160\nand they write social media based on an Elmo voice.\n\n303\n00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:08.080\nWhat would Elmo do?\n\n304\n00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.040\nHow would Cookie Monster react?\n\n305\n00:13:10.040 --> 00:13:12.920\nAnd you are just so addicted to following this\n\n306\n00:13:12.920 --> 00:13:14.720\nbecause it's fun, it's engaging.\n\n307\n00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:16.760\nThey're building a relationship with you.\n\n308\n00:13:16.760 --> 00:13:20.680\nAnd one of the things that we see is most customers\n\n309\n00:13:20.680 --> 00:13:22.760\ndon't want to hear about a brand,\n\n310\n00:13:22.760 --> 00:13:25.600\njust like most people in a dialogue in a relationship.\n\n311\n00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:27.440\nIf you're doing all the talking,\n\n312\n00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:28.600\nthey're not really interested.\n\n313\n00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:32.960\nAnd so we ran this study where brands talk 70%\n\n314\n00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:37.520\nabout themselves and only 30% about the customer.\n\n315\n00:13:37.520 --> 00:13:40.480\nAnd people on social media, they want the reverse.\n\n316\n00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:42.760\nThey want to hear, what are you doing for my problems?\n\n317\n00:13:42.760 --> 00:13:44.040\nHow can you help me?\n\n318\n00:13:44.040 --> 00:13:46.160\nThey don't want to hear about you, the brand,\n\n319\n00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:47.200\nor you, the company.\n\n320\n00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.840\nAnd so we talk about how do you give something nine times?\n\n321\n00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:51.720\nHow do you give nine pieces of info\n\n322\n00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:54.840\nthat a customer values and then you take only once?\n\n323\n00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:56.720\nAnd so the really good brands, they do that.\n\n324\n00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.280\nThey build authenticity, they build a relationship,\n\n325\n00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:03.400\nthey engage you, and then they'll quote unquote sell only once.\n\n326\n00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:06.560\nAnd you're learning during those other nine times.\n\n327\n00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:08.720\n- When you think about social media,\n\n328\n00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.440\nthere are brands that use it to drive revenue.\n\n329\n00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.640\nBut most people think that, you know,\n\n330\n00:14:13.640 --> 00:14:15.840\nit just, you get impressions, you know.\n\n331\n00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:17.880\nBut if you're going to drive revenue,\n\n332\n00:14:17.880 --> 00:14:21.160\nwhat do you have to do that the other people don't?\n\n333\n00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:24.280\nHow do you turn these impressions into dollars?\n\n334\n00:14:24.280 --> 00:14:26.680\n- And that is the part that we're most excited.\n\n335\n00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:28.480\nThe last 10 years about social media\n\n336\n00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:29.960\nhas just been about FOMA.\n\n337\n00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.600\nIt's being on social media because our competitors are\n\n338\n00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:34.520\nand you just have this fear of missing out.\n\n339\n00:14:34.520 --> 00:14:36.120\nVersus we think the next 10 years\n\n340\n00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:38.920\nis all about driving revenue and impact to your business.\n\n341\n00:14:38.920 --> 00:14:41.120\nAnd the three things to do different\n\n342\n00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.240\nis one, just like you would with any relationship, listen.\n\n343\n00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:46.840\nIt starts with actually listening,\n\n344\n00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:49.000\nwhat do your customers care about?\n\n345\n00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.400\nWe just actually bought this business talk walker\n\n346\n00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:55.120\nthat allows us to help our customers really zone in\n\n347\n00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.360\nand target and personalize the listening\n\n348\n00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:00.400\nbased on geography or topic or conversation.\n\n349\n00:15:00.400 --> 00:15:03.280\nAnd it's one of the best ways to build a relationship.\n\n350\n00:15:03.280 --> 00:15:04.880\nTalk less, listen more.\n\n351\n00:15:04.880 --> 00:15:06.960\nThe second thing is talk about things\n\n352\n00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.400\nthat the customers care about.\n\n353\n00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:11.960\nSo it's nobody wants to get sold to.\n\n354\n00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:13.840\nThey want to learn, right?\n\n355\n00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:15.720\nAnd we were talking about your book earlier\n\n356\n00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.400\nthat you're teaching leaders how to actively learn.\n\n357\n00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:21.680\nIt's the same thing on the customer side.\n\n358\n00:15:21.680 --> 00:15:24.320\nNobody wants to get sold at and told stats,\n\n359\n00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:28.000\ntell us what we can do better, educate us, give us knowledge\n\n360\n00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.760\nthat when we see brands when they're educating,\n\n361\n00:15:30.760 --> 00:15:33.040\nhere's what you do to get a better price for your house\n\n362\n00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:34.280\nwhen you put it on the market.\n\n363\n00:15:34.280 --> 00:15:36.480\nHere's what you do to better manage your finances\n\n364\n00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:38.960\nby giving some of that education out.\n\n365\n00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:40.400\nYou're building a relationship\n\n366\n00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:42.760\nbecause you're giving customers something.\n\n367\n00:15:42.760 --> 00:15:44.600\nAnd then the third piece that we see\n\n368\n00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.600\nthat are really good customers\n\n369\n00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.560\nthat are building revenue from social media\n\n370\n00:15:49.560 --> 00:15:51.240\nare the ones that are vulnerable.\n\n371\n00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:53.760\nThe ones that, just like any other relationship,\n\n372\n00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:56.600\nif everything is great and you're not scared of anything,\n\n373\n00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:58.200\nit's really hard to build trust with someone.\n\n374\n00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.320\nYou want to know what do you mess up at?\n\n375\n00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.240\nWhat are you bad at?\n\n376\n00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:03.160\nThere's no way you're great at everything.\n\n377\n00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:04.680\nAnd so it's the same thing with a brand.\n\n378\n00:16:04.680 --> 00:16:06.400\nHow do you be vulnerable about the things\n\n379\n00:16:06.400 --> 00:16:08.240\nthat don't work or that do work?\n\n380\n00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:10.080\nHow do you ask for help?\n\n381\n00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.920\nAnd social media is one of the easiest places\n\n382\n00:16:12.920 --> 00:16:14.560\nto get fast feedback.\n\n383\n00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:15.880\nHey, we launched this product.\n\n384\n00:16:15.880 --> 00:16:18.200\nIt looked like it didn't get a great response from you.\n\n385\n00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:19.360\nHere are the three things we think,\n\n386\n00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:20.400\nwhy do you agree?\n\n387\n00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:22.000\nWhy do you think it didn't work?\n\n388\n00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.200\nAnd so the brands that we see have a lot of success\n\n389\n00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:26.800\nare vulnerable and just ask.\n\n390\n00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:29.720\n- You know, vulnerability's a hot topic for leaders today.\n\n391\n00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.600\nHow easy is it for you to be vulnerable\n\n392\n00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:35.740\nand how do you show your vulnerability?\n\n393\n00:16:35.740 --> 00:16:38.960\n- Yeah, and it's an amazing thing to talk about\n\n394\n00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.440\nbecause I started my career in finance\n\n395\n00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:43.240\nand being vulnerable in my mind\n\n396\n00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:44.800\nwas not something that was okay.\n\n397\n00:16:44.800 --> 00:16:48.120\nThat was weakness to me in the sense of\n\n398\n00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:49.280\nyou just didn't do that.\n\n399\n00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:51.760\nAnd it took later in my career\n\n400\n00:16:51.760 --> 00:16:54.280\nand it wasn't until I met other leaders\n\n401\n00:16:54.280 --> 00:16:56.680\nand I heard them talk about where they messed up,\n\n402\n00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:57.800\ntheir failings and I thought,\n\n403\n00:16:57.800 --> 00:16:59.080\noh my God, I have all of those.\n\n404\n00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:00.600\nWe're allowed to talk about them.\n\n405\n00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.680\nThis is okay.\n\n406\n00:17:02.680 --> 00:17:06.880\nAnd you just realize that you are a human at home\n\n407\n00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:09.320\nand the human you are work can't be two different things.\n\n408\n00:17:09.320 --> 00:17:11.080\nAnd so who you bring to work has to be\n\n409\n00:17:11.080 --> 00:17:12.160\nyour most authentic self.\n\n410\n00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.080\nAnd part of that is the things you do right\n\n411\n00:17:14.080 --> 00:17:15.040\nand the things you do wrong.\n\n412\n00:17:15.040 --> 00:17:17.640\nAnd I don't think we talk about vulnerability enough\n\n413\n00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.320\nas leaders and we don't make it okay.\n\n414\n00:17:20.320 --> 00:17:22.280\nFor me, anytime I do something wrong,\n\n415\n00:17:22.280 --> 00:17:24.340\nwhich happens often, I call it out.\n\n416\n00:17:24.340 --> 00:17:27.200\nOr if I give wrong direction to my team and they were right,\n\n417\n00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.480\nI make sure I make a really big deal about that\n\n418\n00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:31.560\nto say, hey, you were 100% right.\n\n419\n00:17:31.560 --> 00:17:33.040\nIn fact, you shouldn't have listened to me.\n\n420\n00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:34.400\nYou should have challenged me more.\n\n421\n00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:35.440\nIt's still your fault.\n\n422\n00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.840\nI hear some high I did it wrong.\n\n423\n00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:41.320\nAnd just calling it out to say mistakes are okay.\n\n424\n00:17:41.320 --> 00:17:43.520\nAnd I think mistakes are healthy.\n\n425\n00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:45.720\nBecause one of the things that, for me at least,\n\n426\n00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:47.440\nI see that teams that prefer the best\n\n427\n00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.320\nare those that have psychological safety.\n\n428\n00:17:50.320 --> 00:17:53.440\nAnd vulnerability and trust is one of the biggest ways\n\n429\n00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:55.200\nto build that psychological safety.\n\n430\n00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.560\nAnd it starts by showing I can mess up.\n\n431\n00:17:58.560 --> 00:18:00.560\n- What do you see as like two or three things\n\n432\n00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:03.840\nthat every leader should be doing or thinking about\n\n433\n00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:06.000\nwhen it comes to social medias today?\n\n434\n00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.520\n- One is posting and being on social media.\n\n435\n00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:13.480\nAnd I say that because before joining Hootsuy,\n\n436\n00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:18.440\nI was an observer and I would sometimes dabble in it.\n\n437\n00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:20.360\nBut I've made a commitment over the past year\n\n438\n00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:22.280\nto really post two, three times a week.\n\n439\n00:18:22.280 --> 00:18:24.400\nAnd the first post, David, was really hard.\n\n440\n00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:25.920\nIt felt so vulnerable.\n\n441\n00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:28.920\nIt felt like I was inviting people into my brain.\n\n442\n00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:33.000\nAnd I was just not ready to share this personal aspect\n\n443\n00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.520\nof there was a thought, an opinion.\n\n444\n00:18:34.520 --> 00:18:36.360\nIt just felt so strange.\n\n445\n00:18:36.360 --> 00:18:41.280\nAnd your teams look to leaders to see what are they doing.\n\n446\n00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:42.920\nAnd that's the behavior I wanna emulate.\n\n447\n00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.520\nAnd so just posting and being out there.\n\n448\n00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:49.640\nThe second thing is getting involved in others' comments.\n\n449\n00:18:49.640 --> 00:18:51.760\nOne of the things that I got to see in witness\n\n450\n00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:54.800\nas you were kind of moving through your podcast series\n\n451\n00:18:54.800 --> 00:18:57.640\nis how you interview people and seeing the comments\n\n452\n00:18:57.640 --> 00:18:59.760\nthat were happening and getting involved\n\n453\n00:18:59.760 --> 00:19:01.000\nin those conversations.\n\n454\n00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.560\nAnd there's this magical thing that starts happening\n\n455\n00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:06.320\nis that when you interact with somebody on their post\n\n456\n00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:07.680\nor in their comments a few times,\n\n457\n00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.960\nyou start to develop a relationship with them\n\n458\n00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:12.440\nthat you start to feel like you know them.\n\n459\n00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:15.520\nAnd it goes from this strange,\n\n460\n00:19:15.520 --> 00:19:17.720\nI don't really know you to a few posts\n\n461\n00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.440\nand interactions later, you're like,\n\n462\n00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:20.840\n\"Okay, we've been friends for a while.\n\n463\n00:19:20.840 --> 00:19:22.000\n\"I now understand this.\"\n\n464\n00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.600\nAnd you can see how relationships just get built.\n\n465\n00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:29.160\nAnd then the third thing is just being open to learning.\n\n466\n00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:31.440\nI mean, there's a lot of people who do it really well.\n\n467\n00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.720\nAnd I had a team, thankfully,\n\n468\n00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:35.880\nbecause I'm at Hootsuite that basically said,\n\n469\n00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.920\n\"Here's what you're doing wrong, Irina.\n\n470\n00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.960\n\"And here's what we could do better.\"\n\n471\n00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.800\nBut just being open to trying new things.\n\n472\n00:19:42.800 --> 00:19:44.000\n- I'm pretty good at posting,\n\n473\n00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:45.760\nbut I'm not very good at commenting\n\n474\n00:19:45.760 --> 00:19:47.320\n'cause it takes time.\n\n475\n00:19:47.320 --> 00:19:49.480\nIf social media is really important\n\n476\n00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:52.360\nin today's world of marketing, you better take that time.\n\n477\n00:19:52.360 --> 00:19:53.200\n- 100%.\n\n478\n00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:54.960\nAnd it's interesting because the comments\n\n479\n00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.800\nis actually what gets you, your audience.\n\n480\n00:19:57.800 --> 00:19:59.640\nSo the posting is definitely helpful,\n\n481\n00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:01.760\nbut the commenting in their algorithm\n\n482\n00:20:01.760 --> 00:20:04.800\nis what gets you the most followers and engagement\n\n483\n00:20:04.800 --> 00:20:06.960\nand gets you the most audience.\n\n484\n00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:10.360\n- On LinkedIn, you have this header image that I love,\n\n485\n00:20:10.360 --> 00:20:13.200\nwhich says, \"Ruffle some feathers.\"\n\n486\n00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:17.280\nHow would you say you're ruffling feathers at Hootsuite?\n\n487\n00:20:17.280 --> 00:20:20.760\n- I would hope that we're ruffling them every day.\n\n488\n00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:25.760\nI am a big believer of removing bureaucracy and process\n\n489\n00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:27.480\nand hierarchy.\n\n490\n00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:32.080\nAnd so we are flattening and enabling decision making.\n\n491\n00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:37.080\nWe are putting people in spots to be enabled and accountable\n\n492\n00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:39.160\nand taking risks on people.\n\n493\n00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.320\nI think one of the things that I have been\n\n494\n00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:44.800\nthe beneficiary of, that I try so much to give forward\n\n495\n00:20:44.800 --> 00:20:47.840\nand encourage our teams to do the same is\n\n496\n00:20:47.840 --> 00:20:50.480\npeople is the biggest investment that you can make.\n\n497\n00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.840\nIt can also feel like the biggest risk.\n\n498\n00:20:52.840 --> 00:20:56.400\nWhere sometimes we wait so long to give someone a chance\n\n499\n00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.080\nto just do the job.\n\n500\n00:20:58.080 --> 00:21:00.200\nOkay, but if you know their character,\n\n501\n00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:02.000\nyou know their values, you know their work ethic.\n\n502\n00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:03.920\nAnd by the way, you've worked with them,\n\n503\n00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.240\nthat to me is the least risk that you can make\n\n504\n00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:08.480\non as a business decision.\n\n505\n00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:10.400\nGo give them the job, go give them the chance.\n\n506\n00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:11.880\nEven if they've never done it,\n\n507\n00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:13.440\njust go watch what they can do.\n\n508\n00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.720\nAnd you see magic happen when that person\n\n509\n00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.080\nis given ownership and responsibility\n\n510\n00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:21.240\nto go try something and to fix a problem.\n\n511\n00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:25.360\nAnd so I spend a lot of time encouraging people\n\n512\n00:21:25.360 --> 00:21:27.600\nto raise their hand with problems they found.\n\n513\n00:21:27.600 --> 00:21:29.360\nAnd then when they show up with the problem,\n\n514\n00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:31.480\nI task them to go figure out how to solve it.\n\n515\n00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:32.560\n(laughs)\n\n516\n00:21:32.560 --> 00:21:34.360\n- That's good, that's a good approach.\n\n517\n00:21:34.360 --> 00:21:36.760\nYou know, speaking of ruffling feathers,\n\n518\n00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:39.320\ngive us a specific example where you know\n\n519\n00:21:39.320 --> 00:21:41.960\nyou ruffled some feathers and it had a great outcome.\n\n520\n00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.480\n- When I started about a year ago,\n\n521\n00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.740\nI replaced 80% of my leadership team.\n\n522\n00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.160\nAnd that is a pretty big change.\n\n523\n00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:54.640\n- That's ruffling some feathers.\n\n524\n00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.480\n- That is ruffling some feathers.\n\n525\n00:21:56.480 --> 00:21:58.760\nAnd it was a good leadership team,\n\n526\n00:21:58.760 --> 00:22:02.320\njust wasn't their right team for what I wanted to do.\n\n527\n00:22:02.320 --> 00:22:06.480\nAnd it is hard to change leaders out.\n\n528\n00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:08.680\nIt comes with a lot of risk.\n\n529\n00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.840\nBut you have to take what are you trying to do\n\n530\n00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:13.000\nfor the business?\n\n531\n00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:15.200\nYou're trying to keep in mind all these teams\n\n532\n00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.080\nand employees that are kind of counting on you\n\n533\n00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:18.800\nto make the right decisions.\n\n534\n00:22:18.800 --> 00:22:22.000\nAnd it was a tough transitory time.\n\n535\n00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.920\nI was probably pulling three or four different\n\n536\n00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:26.640\nC-suite hats at the same time\n\n537\n00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.760\nwhile I was trying to figure out how to hire\n\n538\n00:22:28.760 --> 00:22:30.840\nsome of the people that I didn't have.\n\n539\n00:22:30.840 --> 00:22:33.920\nAnd it was arguably probably one of the best decisions\n\n540\n00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.840\nthat I made and the thing I learned every time\n\n541\n00:22:36.840 --> 00:22:41.160\nover and over again is making change fast.\n\n542\n00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.680\nAnd it is, I think, the biggest sign of respect to people\n\n543\n00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.240\nbecause everybody wants to be in the role\n\n544\n00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.680\nthat they feel good, that they can impact change,\n\n545\n00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:51.680\nthat they can be where they can be successful.\n\n546\n00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:54.920\nAnd the minute you see that that person doesn't align\n\n547\n00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:56.600\nwith the vision or doesn't have the expertise\n\n548\n00:22:56.600 --> 00:22:59.760\nor cannot realize success in that role,\n\n549\n00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:01.920\nthe best and the most respectful thing you can do\n\n550\n00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.920\nis give them the opportunity to go find it somewhere else.\n\n551\n00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:07.400\nAnd so taking this kind of band-aid approach,\n\n552\n00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.840\nripping it off fast allowed our owls at Hootsuite\n\n553\n00:23:11.840 --> 00:23:14.040\nto kind of go through the change once\n\n554\n00:23:14.040 --> 00:23:17.280\nand set up a little bit at a time over long periods of time.\n\n555\n00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:19.280\n- You know, that's a really hard thing to do.\n\n556\n00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:21.840\nHow did you learn how to be tough-minded?\n\n557\n00:23:21.840 --> 00:23:23.760\nYou know, and I do think there's a big difference\n\n558\n00:23:23.760 --> 00:23:26.720\nbetween being tough and tough-minded.\n\n559\n00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.760\nThat's a very tough-minded decision that you had to make.\n\n560\n00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:32.320\nYou know, is that just in your DNA\n\n561\n00:23:32.320 --> 00:23:34.920\nor is that something you've had to learn?\n\n562\n00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.200\n- And I love how you said that 'cause it's tough-minded\n\n563\n00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.880\n'cause the thing that I think is so important\n\n564\n00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:43.040\nand the two can exist is you can be kind\n\n565\n00:23:43.040 --> 00:23:44.960\nand you can be relationship focused,\n\n566\n00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:49.040\nbut you can still make the hard decisions that are necessary.\n\n567\n00:23:49.040 --> 00:23:51.840\nAnd I think a lot of first-time leaders,\n\n568\n00:23:51.840 --> 00:23:54.560\nthey think the kindness and making decisions\n\n569\n00:23:54.560 --> 00:23:57.720\nand sometimes cannot sit mutually.\n\n570\n00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.280\nAnd for me, I made mistakes that helps.\n\n571\n00:24:01.280 --> 00:24:04.040\nI waited too long sometimes to take leaders out\n\n572\n00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:07.760\nand I saw how it impacted A players underneath,\n\n573\n00:24:07.760 --> 00:24:09.840\nhow it impacted the teams underneath,\n\n574\n00:24:09.840 --> 00:24:12.120\nhow it slowed down the results\n\n575\n00:24:12.120 --> 00:24:16.200\nand what gives me confidence is my overarching goal\n\n576\n00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.120\nof we wanna build a strong business.\n\n577\n00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:21.800\nWe wanna enable all of our owls\n\n578\n00:24:21.800 --> 00:24:25.240\nto have promotion opportunities and to grow their careers.\n\n579\n00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.960\nAnd I have one job.\n\n580\n00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.840\nOne job is to put the right leadership team in place\n\n581\n00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:31.400\nand then get out of the way.\n\n582\n00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:35.120\nAnd so when I think about having tough conversations,\n\n583\n00:24:35.120 --> 00:24:38.840\nI think about who am I letting down by not doing this?\n\n584\n00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:41.560\nAnd so to me, it gets a little easier every time.\n\n585\n00:24:41.560 --> 00:24:44.320\nThis is actually your second CEO role.\n\n586\n00:24:44.320 --> 00:24:47.120\nAnd your first was the CEO career builder,\n\n587\n00:24:47.120 --> 00:24:51.120\nbut I wanna hear more about your journey to becoming a CEO.\n\n588\n00:24:51.120 --> 00:24:54.200\nAnd I understand you were a full-time student\n\n589\n00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:56.440\nat NYU Stern School of Business.\n\n590\n00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.760\nWhile you also worked full-time at Morgan Stanley,\n\n591\n00:25:00.760 --> 00:25:03.680\nwhat were some of those early skills\n\n592\n00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.160\nthat you developed in that role?\n\n593\n00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.200\n- Time management was real.\n\n594\n00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:09.720\n(laughing)\n\n595\n00:25:09.720 --> 00:25:12.120\nAnd you get this belief in yourself\n\n596\n00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:15.760\nthat you can do things that seem really difficult and hard.\n\n597\n00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:19.880\nAnd you get comfortable being the dumbest person in the room.\n\n598\n00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:22.080\nAnd there's a confidence that comes with that.\n\n599\n00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:24.480\nSo I would show up to these Morgan Stanley meetings.\n\n600\n00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:26.800\nAnd again, I was trying to do full-time,\n\n601\n00:25:26.800 --> 00:25:29.600\nbut my brain was occupied with student things\n\n602\n00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:31.680\nand running around and doing everything I was doing.\n\n603\n00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.680\nAnd so I was just learning at such a pace\n\n604\n00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:36.280\nthat any meeting I was in,\n\n605\n00:25:36.280 --> 00:25:38.600\nI was always behind on the conversation.\n\n606\n00:25:38.600 --> 00:25:41.320\nI never fully understood what the goal of what we were doing.\n\n607\n00:25:41.320 --> 00:25:42.800\nYou're just constantly learning\n\n608\n00:25:42.800 --> 00:25:44.600\nand you're not the smartest person in the room.\n\n609\n00:25:44.600 --> 00:25:48.800\nAnd there's a freedom to it to realize it is okay.\n\n610\n00:25:48.800 --> 00:25:52.120\nAnd it's a skill set that I have kept with me\n\n611\n00:25:52.120 --> 00:25:54.560\nthat I am okay asking the dumb questions.\n\n612\n00:25:54.560 --> 00:25:56.600\nI am okay to be the dumbest person in the room.\n\n613\n00:25:56.600 --> 00:25:58.280\nI am okay to actively be learning.\n\n614\n00:25:58.280 --> 00:26:00.960\nIt's being comfortable and the uncomfortable.\n\n615\n00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:04.600\nAnd it is an amazing thing to learn young\n\n616\n00:26:04.600 --> 00:26:06.280\nand early in your career.\n\n617\n00:26:06.280 --> 00:26:08.720\nAnd the second thing is I've learned\n\n618\n00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:11.680\nthat naive-ness is really powerful.\n\n619\n00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.200\nI remember I worked on this project with this MD\n\n620\n00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.600\nand I spent the whole weekend working on it.\n\n621\n00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:18.760\nAnd on Monday, I delivered it to him\n\n622\n00:26:18.760 --> 00:26:20.080\nand his meeting was Monday afternoon.\n\n623\n00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:21.160\nSo I showed up and I said,\n\n624\n00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:24.600\n\"Great, can I come to your meeting Monday afternoon?\"\n\n625\n00:26:24.600 --> 00:26:26.200\nAnd he said, \"Yeah, sure.\"\n\n626\n00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:27.680\nAnd I remember going back to the bullpen,\n\n627\n00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:29.720\nwhich is what we called the area of analysts\n\n628\n00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:30.560\nthat were sitting there,\n\n629\n00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:33.120\nwho's you can't ask an MD to go to a meeting.\n\n630\n00:26:33.120 --> 00:26:33.960\nAnd I said, \"Why not?\"\n\n631\n00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.960\nI spent all this time working on the materials for us,\n\n632\n00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:38.160\nbut that's not the way it works.\n\n633\n00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.000\nThere's hierarchy.\n\n634\n00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.920\nYou can't just go and ask to go to a meeting.\n\n635\n00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:43.480\nAnd I didn't know any better, David,\n\n636\n00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:45.040\n'cause if I probably knew the rules,\n\n637\n00:26:45.040 --> 00:26:47.080\nmaybe I wouldn't have gone and asked,\n\n638\n00:26:47.080 --> 00:26:49.240\nbut it just seemed so common sense to me at the time.\n\n639\n00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:51.400\nLike, why wouldn't I go and hear how the stuff\n\n640\n00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:52.600\nwas being presented?\n\n641\n00:26:52.600 --> 00:26:54.360\nAnd you just learn time and time again\n\n642\n00:26:54.360 --> 00:26:56.920\nthat sometimes naive-ness or ignorance,\n\n643\n00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:00.840\nwithin reason is a pretty healthy superpower.\n\n644\n00:27:00.840 --> 00:27:02.600\n- And what was the learning you got\n\n645\n00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:05.480\nfrom the reaction from the managing director\n\n646\n00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.160\nas you were breaking that rule?\n\n647\n00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:09.960\n- His reaction was, \"Of course you can come.\n\n648\n00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.400\nNobody's asked him if an analyst previously\n\n649\n00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:14.480\ncan go to a meeting.\"\n\n650\n00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.280\nAnd so there's almost some of these unwritten rules,\n\n651\n00:27:17.280 --> 00:27:19.000\nand I see this in leadership a lot,\n\n652\n00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.760\nwhere there's teams or leaders will assume something\n\n653\n00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:24.720\nbecause, \"Oh, it's improper,\"\n\n654\n00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.040\nor you can't do that at this level.\n\n655\n00:27:27.040 --> 00:27:28.240\nWhy not?\n\n656\n00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:30.120\nIf you need to call a customer,\n\n657\n00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:32.400\ncall a customer, who cares what your title is\n\n658\n00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.480\nor what you need to do,\n\n659\n00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.280\nor the other day I sat in on a social media manager.\n\n660\n00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:38.800\nAnd I remember the team saying,\n\n661\n00:27:38.800 --> 00:27:40.640\n\"Irena, there's no C-suite here.\n\n662\n00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:41.920\nYou don't need to join.\"\n\n663\n00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:42.760\nGreat.\n\n664\n00:27:42.760 --> 00:27:43.720\nDo you know what I'm gonna learn\n\n665\n00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:46.760\nby listening to you talk to one of our day-to-day users?\n\n666\n00:27:46.760 --> 00:27:47.600\nThis is amazing.\n\n667\n00:27:47.600 --> 00:27:48.800\nI'll listen, I don't need to talk.\n\n668\n00:27:48.800 --> 00:27:52.200\nAnd so it just sometimes just taking,\n\n669\n00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.760\nyou know, the importance of things a little out of it\n\n670\n00:27:54.760 --> 00:27:56.200\nhelps a lot.\n\n671\n00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.760\n- Tell me the story of how you got into investment banking\n\n672\n00:27:58.760 --> 00:28:01.960\nand the investment banking program in the first place.\n\n673\n00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.400\n- One, I need financial security.\n\n674\n00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:06.120\nDavid and somebody told me,\n\n675\n00:28:06.120 --> 00:28:09.120\n\"You make the most amount of money in investment banking,\n\n676\n00:28:09.120 --> 00:28:12.240\nand if you're good at math, that's a good place to go.\"\n\n677\n00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:13.440\nThere's very little math.\n\n678\n00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.560\nIt's mostly addition and subtraction.\n\n679\n00:28:15.560 --> 00:28:19.320\nBut at the time, it paid the highest coming out of college.\n\n680\n00:28:19.320 --> 00:28:20.880\nAnd so that was my goal.\n\n681\n00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.560\nAnd nobody was hiring freshmen\n\n682\n00:28:23.560 --> 00:28:25.640\ninto the investment banking program.\n\n683\n00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:28.400\nAnd I somehow got a back office job\n\n684\n00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.160\nat Morgan Stanley in their controlling group,\n\n685\n00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:33.120\nwhich was a really tough job for me.\n\n686\n00:28:33.120 --> 00:28:37.600\nAnd I would spend the evenings emailing investment banking\n\n687\n00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:41.080\ndivision MDs and asking if they would get coffee with me.\n\n688\n00:28:41.080 --> 00:28:44.560\nAnd this one MD who was a little bit of a ruffle-the-feathers\n\n689\n00:28:44.560 --> 00:28:47.440\nkind of guy at Morgan Stanley, Harry Van Dyke,\n\n690\n00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:49.520\nhe was a role-breaker and a builder.\n\n691\n00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:51.480\nAnd he responded.\n\n692\n00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:55.320\nAnd he, out of hundreds that I sent out,\n\n693\n00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:57.640\nhe responded and said, \"Meet with my VP.\"\n\n694\n00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:00.360\nAnd I had coffee with the VP, Jonas Nielsen.\n\n695\n00:29:00.360 --> 00:29:02.400\nAnd he told me, \"Why don't you go graduate?\n\n696\n00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.800\nAnd we'll talk when you have a degree.\"\n\n697\n00:29:04.800 --> 00:29:06.560\nAnd then six months later, he called me and said,\n\n698\n00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:08.880\n\"Hey, we're actually doing a sophomore internship program.\n\n699\n00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:10.200\n\"You should apply.\"\n\n700\n00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:13.600\nAnd if I didn't knock and if this person didn't respond\n\n701\n00:29:13.600 --> 00:29:15.720\nand if didn't lead to the coffee,\n\n702\n00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:19.440\nI would have never, ever had an opportunity to participate.\n\n703\n00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:20.920\n- And I love this quote of yours,\n\n704\n00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:23.480\nwhich is, \"Stand near closed doors and knock.\"\n\n705\n00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:24.320\n- Yeah.\n\n706\n00:29:24.320 --> 00:29:25.320\n- Great things happen when that happens, right?\n\n707\n00:29:25.320 --> 00:29:26.160\n- Great things happen.\n\n708\n00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.560\nAnd you just, it's a powerful concept of,\n\n709\n00:29:28.560 --> 00:29:30.800\nI'm not a big believer in no.\n\n710\n00:29:30.800 --> 00:29:35.560\nAnd I see that with entrepreneurs and new-time leaders,\n\n711\n00:29:35.560 --> 00:29:39.040\njust it's so easy to get marred in the no.\n\n712\n00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:40.560\nYou're either asking the wrong question\n\n713\n00:29:40.560 --> 00:29:41.960\nor you're asking the wrong person\n\n714\n00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:43.880\nand it's a state of mind.\n\n715\n00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:46.040\nAnd so, okay, there's a door, go knock.\n\n716\n00:29:46.040 --> 00:29:47.440\nSomeone will open something.\n\n717\n00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:49.000\nIt'll give you some opportunity.\n\n718\n00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:52.240\nAnd if you do nothing, 100% will get nothing.\n\n719\n00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:54.000\n- As you were moving up in your career\n\n720\n00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:55.120\nand getting more and more experience,\n\n721\n00:29:55.120 --> 00:29:56.960\ndid you have a mentor that really took you\n\n722\n00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.880\nunder their wings and gave you the boost you needed?\n\n723\n00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.000\n- Yes and no, I think the mentorship concept is so hard\n\n724\n00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:07.320\nbecause I remember and when I read your book,\n\n725\n00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:10.600\nI was so hungry to look for a mentor\n\n726\n00:30:10.600 --> 00:30:12.480\nbecause how are you supposed to know the things\n\n727\n00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:14.040\nthat you just don't know,\n\n728\n00:30:14.040 --> 00:30:15.600\nwhere are you supposed to get it from?\n\n729\n00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:19.160\nAnd mentors is a tough relationship to build.\n\n730\n00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:21.360\nAnd people that I've seen do it poorly,\n\n731\n00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:24.320\njust email out of the blue and ask you to be a mentor.\n\n732\n00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:26.760\nAnd it's hard.\n\n733\n00:30:26.760 --> 00:30:30.280\nAnd where I've had success is I've come across\n\n734\n00:30:30.280 --> 00:30:33.040\nor networked with interesting people\n\n735\n00:30:33.040 --> 00:30:35.800\nand I just bring them into my world of problems.\n\n736\n00:30:35.800 --> 00:30:38.960\nAnd so when I have a problem, I call them\n\n737\n00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:40.120\nand I ask for advice.\n\n738\n00:30:40.120 --> 00:30:42.240\nAnd after the second time and the third time\n\n739\n00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.040\nand the fourth time, they're invested.\n\n740\n00:30:44.040 --> 00:30:46.000\nThey can't go anywhere.\n\n741\n00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:48.120\nAnd so you kind of just bring them in\n\n742\n00:30:48.120 --> 00:30:51.880\nand it becomes this very organic situation\n\n743\n00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.080\nwhere it's not necessarily a mentor or not.\n\n744\n00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:58.480\nBut the second part of it is when I left finance\n\n745\n00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.480\nand moved to the operational side,\n\n746\n00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:05.400\nI was very focused on which CEO I wanted to work with.\n\n747\n00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:08.400\nAnd so I went on a nine month journey\n\n748\n00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:11.160\nwhere I probably interviewed over a hundred CEOs\n\n749\n00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.440\nwhere of course they thought they were interviewing me\n\n750\n00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.040\nand I was looking for someone to take a chance\n\n751\n00:31:17.040 --> 00:31:18.560\nas I was changing careers\n\n752\n00:31:18.560 --> 00:31:21.280\nand really didn't know much about the operational world\n\n753\n00:31:21.280 --> 00:31:24.040\nbut what I was looking is a person that I can learn from\n\n754\n00:31:24.040 --> 00:31:25.960\nwho had similar values to me,\n\n755\n00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.080\nwho had a similar approach that I wanted to emulate.\n\n756\n00:31:29.080 --> 00:31:33.120\nAnd I was fortunate enough to take my time\n\n757\n00:31:33.120 --> 00:31:36.440\nto find somebody that I wanted to learn from\n\n758\n00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:39.000\nthat was aligned to what I was looking for.\n\n759\n00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.200\nAnd so they didn't realize probably\n\n760\n00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.320\nthat they were being my mentor, but every day at 7 a.m.\n\n761\n00:31:44.320 --> 00:31:45.720\nI would set up meetings and say,\n\n762\n00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:47.120\nhey, here are the questions I have.\n\n763\n00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:48.040\nWhat are your responses?\n\n764\n00:31:48.040 --> 00:31:49.120\nHow would you answer this?\n\n765\n00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:52.840\nAnd after a few weeks, they don't really get a choice\n\n766\n00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:53.680\nin the matter.\n\n767\n00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.760\n(laughing)\n\n768\n00:31:55.760 --> 00:31:57.440\nI think I know the answer to this,\n\n769\n00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.080\nbut I'm gonna ask it anyway.\n\n770\n00:31:59.080 --> 00:32:02.440\nWhat was it about you that helped you rise through the ranks\n\n771\n00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:05.120\nand land a CEO roles?\n\n772\n00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:06.800\nSo early in your career,\n\n773\n00:32:06.800 --> 00:32:09.200\nas I understand it, you were in your early 30s,\n\n774\n00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:10.320\nI believe, right?\n\n775\n00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:11.320\n- Mm-hmm.\n\n776\n00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:14.600\nA lot of luck, I think being in the right place\n\n777\n00:32:14.600 --> 00:32:18.000\nand being willing to knock and just keep knocking.\n\n778\n00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.200\nAnd then outside of that, it's I am hungry to learn.\n\n779\n00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.000\nI believe in solving problems.\n\n780\n00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:28.560\nAnd one of the things that really was eye-opening for me\n\n781\n00:32:28.560 --> 00:32:31.240\nand moving from finance into the operational side\n\n782\n00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:33.280\nis, and you talk about this a lot too,\n\n783\n00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:37.040\nis building people with you, building the teams with you.\n\n784\n00:32:37.040 --> 00:32:40.800\nAnd finance, you can sometimes be a single person sport.\n\n785\n00:32:40.800 --> 00:32:43.320\nWhen you move to the operation side,\n\n786\n00:32:43.320 --> 00:32:46.040\nyou really can't get done anything by yourself.\n\n787\n00:32:46.040 --> 00:32:49.240\nPart of the magic of what you can do on the operation side\n\n788\n00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.000\nis being able to inspire and motivate a team\n\n789\n00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:52.960\nand take them along.\n\n790\n00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:55.160\nAnd one of the biggest things that I learned\n\n791\n00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.040\nis I want a team that's better than me,\n\n792\n00:32:57.040 --> 00:32:59.760\nsmarter than me, can find whatever problems\n\n793\n00:32:59.760 --> 00:33:02.440\nI can't think of, challenge me, say no to me.\n\n794\n00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:05.520\nAnd so once your mentality shifts in that way,\n\n795\n00:33:05.520 --> 00:33:08.480\nyou're able to scale and get leverage and drive results\n\n796\n00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.280\nin a completely different way\n\n797\n00:33:10.280 --> 00:33:12.280\nwhen you're empowering and enabling\n\n798\n00:33:12.280 --> 00:33:15.600\nand motivating people around you to act\n\n799\n00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:17.440\ninstead of like a group of individuals,\n\n800\n00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:18.760\nlike one powerful team.\n\n801\n00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:23.840\n- I'd like you to share with me what you would see\n\n802\n00:33:23.840 --> 00:33:26.000\nas the biggest leadership lesson\n\n803\n00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:28.920\nthat you learned the hard way.\n\n804\n00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.440\n- I think a few come to mind.\n\n805\n00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.840\nOne of them is you think that as a leader,\n\n806\n00:33:35.840 --> 00:33:38.120\npeople are supposed to adapt to your style.\n\n807\n00:33:38.120 --> 00:33:41.760\nAnd the biggest one is my job is to adapt\n\n808\n00:33:41.760 --> 00:33:44.440\nto my team's leadership style.\n\n809\n00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.480\nAnd so I'm the one that needs to mold and to bend\n\n810\n00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:49.640\nand figure out what drives them,\n\n811\n00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.960\nwhat are their strengths, how do I take what makes me good,\n\n812\n00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:55.480\nbut bend it?\n\n813\n00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:56.600\n- How'd you learn that?\n\n814\n00:33:56.600 --> 00:33:59.040\n- The hard way.\n\n815\n00:33:59.040 --> 00:34:01.320\nI'll give you an example.\n\n816\n00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:04.800\nI am a pusher, I want more,\n\n817\n00:34:04.800 --> 00:34:08.240\nI believe the impossible is nothing.\n\n818\n00:34:08.240 --> 00:34:11.920\nAnd the way I communicate is the way that works for me.\n\n819\n00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:14.640\nBut one of the things I learned is there was an exec\n\n820\n00:34:14.640 --> 00:34:18.000\non my team who needed praise.\n\n821\n00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:22.240\nShe needed me to just give her some positive feedback.\n\n822\n00:34:22.240 --> 00:34:25.920\nHer love language was words of affirmation and recognition.\n\n823\n00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.640\nAnd that wasn't the way that I motivated.\n\n824\n00:34:28.640 --> 00:34:31.080\nYou don't have to say a lot of positive things to me\n\n825\n00:34:31.080 --> 00:34:34.000\nas long as I see people developing and growing.\n\n826\n00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.160\nAnd she basically showed up and almost quit.\n\n827\n00:34:37.160 --> 00:34:39.760\nAnd I asked her why, because she was having such a great time.\n\n828\n00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:42.520\nShe was so well respected and her response was,\n\n829\n00:34:42.520 --> 00:34:45.480\nwell, I don't feel like I'm driving value for you.\n\n830\n00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.680\nAnd it was such an eye opener of how could I have such\n\n831\n00:34:48.680 --> 00:34:53.680\na player think that she wasn't important to me.\n\n832\n00:34:53.680 --> 00:34:57.000\nAnd it's because I never took the time to highlight to her\n\n833\n00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.840\nin a language that she could understand why she was.\n\n834\n00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.000\nAnd I thought I was because the results were going up\n\n835\n00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:05.200\nand to the right, what else would I need to say?\n\n836\n00:35:05.200 --> 00:35:08.600\nIt's working, but that's not what she needed.\n\n837\n00:35:08.600 --> 00:35:11.400\nAnd I kept learning this lesson over and over that.\n\n838\n00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.440\nYou get really good at managing a type of person\n\n839\n00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:16.120\nthat's really similar to yourself.\n\n840\n00:35:16.120 --> 00:35:18.920\nAnd the skill set that I'm constantly learning is,\n\n841\n00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:22.280\nhow do I manage and lead people that are really different\n\n842\n00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:24.240\nthan me that aren't motivated the same way?\n\n843\n00:35:24.240 --> 00:35:32.240\n- We'll be back with the rest of my conversation\n\n844\n00:35:32.240 --> 00:35:34.320\nwith Irina in just a moment.\n\n845\n00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.760\nYou know, making bold connections is really important.\n\n846\n00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.320\nIt also takes a whole lot of courage.\n\n847\n00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:43.040\nIn my conversation with Maritza Montiel,\n\n848\n00:35:43.040 --> 00:35:46.560\nthe former Deputy CEO and Vice Chairman of Deloitte,\n\n849\n00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:50.040\nyou can learn from one of the most courageous leaders I know.\n\n850\n00:35:50.040 --> 00:35:53.440\n- Don't be afraid to have a minority position on something.\n\n851\n00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:55.640\nWhat's important is to be heard.\n\n852\n00:35:55.640 --> 00:36:00.040\nAnd I think having the courage to take risk without risk\n\n853\n00:36:00.040 --> 00:36:02.120\nand without failure, you'll never learn anything.\n\n854\n00:36:02.120 --> 00:36:04.560\nI learned more from my failures and my successes.\n\n855\n00:36:04.560 --> 00:36:06.880\nAnd the important thing is not that you fail.\n\n856\n00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.480\nThe important thing is how you come back up\n\n857\n00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:12.680\nand how you apply yourself to the future from that failure.\n\n858\n00:36:12.680 --> 00:36:15.200\nAnd I learned a lot more from failure\n\n859\n00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:17.080\nthan I did from anything else in life.\n\n860\n00:36:17.080 --> 00:36:19.520\nSo have the courage to fail.\n\n861\n00:36:19.520 --> 00:36:20.960\nYou'll learn a lot.\n\n862\n00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:22.640\n- Learn how to tap into your own courage\n\n863\n00:36:22.640 --> 00:36:26.360\nwhen you listen to my entire conversation with Maritza.\n\n864\n00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:29.800\nEpisode 105 here on How Leaders Lead.\n\n865\n00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:41.600\n- Taking you back a little earlier than your Hootsuite days,\n\n866\n00:36:41.600 --> 00:36:44.040\nyou became the CEO of Career Builder.\n\n867\n00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:46.120\nAnd what was the biggest challenge you faced\n\n868\n00:36:46.120 --> 00:36:47.560\nas a first-time CEO?\n\n869\n00:36:47.560 --> 00:36:50.640\n- I didn't realize it at the time,\n\n870\n00:36:50.640 --> 00:36:53.240\nbut I learned it as the second time,\n\n871\n00:36:53.240 --> 00:36:56.000\nis when you're a first-time CEO,\n\n872\n00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:01.000\nyou are really working hard on pleasing your board,\n\n873\n00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.240\non pleasing your investors.\n\n874\n00:37:04.240 --> 00:37:06.280\nAnd as a second-time CEO,\n\n875\n00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:08.320\nyou realize that you're in there\n\n876\n00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:11.120\nto get a lineman on the strategy and a goal.\n\n877\n00:37:11.120 --> 00:37:14.840\nAnd there's a subtle difference, but it's really important.\n\n878\n00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:18.240\nAnd so the board is there to question and challenge\n\n879\n00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:21.040\nand debate with you, but at the end of the day as a CEO,\n\n880\n00:37:21.040 --> 00:37:25.320\nit's your call to make and you have to make it.\n\n881\n00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:28.200\nAnd I think as a first-time CEO,\n\n882\n00:37:28.200 --> 00:37:32.080\nyou sometimes defer on some of those big important decisions\n\n883\n00:37:32.080 --> 00:37:35.400\nand you don't realize that that is your job.\n\n884\n00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:37.960\nAnd the second part of it,\n\n885\n00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.200\nand I learned this also the hard way,\n\n886\n00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:42.720\nis you don't always know the answer coming in.\n\n887\n00:37:42.720 --> 00:37:47.720\nAnd sometimes listening is more important than the doing.\n\n888\n00:37:47.720 --> 00:37:50.040\nAnd coming into Hootsuite, one of the things\n\n889\n00:37:50.040 --> 00:37:51.680\nI was really conscious about is,\n\n890\n00:37:51.680 --> 00:37:54.760\neven if I saw a problem that I've seen a few times before,\n\n891\n00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:56.360\nthere's this easy bias to say,\n\n892\n00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:57.440\n\"Oh, this is a circle.\n\n893\n00:37:57.440 --> 00:37:59.360\n\"I know what goes in the circle.\n\n894\n00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:00.920\n\"I know how to solve this.\"\n\n895\n00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:02.680\nAnd every business, every industry,\n\n896\n00:38:02.680 --> 00:38:05.560\nevery company has its own little bit different flavor.\n\n897\n00:38:05.560 --> 00:38:09.160\nAnd what I did differently here is I'd identify the strategy,\n\n898\n00:38:09.160 --> 00:38:11.200\nI'd identify where we focus,\n\n899\n00:38:11.200 --> 00:38:14.920\nbut I didn't come with this is how I think we should do it.\n\n900\n00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:19.120\nAnd instead, I put a team together and let them figure it out.\n\n901\n00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:21.680\nAnd I think you call this take the team with you\n\n902\n00:38:21.680 --> 00:38:24.720\nor bring the people along and you get better with it,\n\n903\n00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:25.560\nwith experience,\n\n904\n00:38:25.560 --> 00:38:28.360\nbut that was probably two of the biggest differences.\n\n905\n00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:29.840\n- You know, at career builders,\n\n906\n00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:31.760\nyou learn all about career building\n\n907\n00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:33.520\nand helping others do it, obviously.\n\n908\n00:38:33.520 --> 00:38:36.080\nAnd what's something that you wish\n\n909\n00:38:36.080 --> 00:38:40.760\nthat leaders understood more about finding great talent?\n\n910\n00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:41.800\n- Two things.\n\n911\n00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:43.640\nLeaders look for pattern recognition\n\n912\n00:38:43.640 --> 00:38:46.280\nthat is really similar to their own background.\n\n913\n00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:49.800\nAnd I think that can be really dangerous\n\n914\n00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:54.400\nbecause then you're just gonna get a bunch of like-minded people\n\n915\n00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:56.040\nthat have a similar perspective,\n\n916\n00:38:56.040 --> 00:38:58.000\na similar background to you.\n\n917\n00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.280\nAnd what you wanna do is what are the character traits,\n\n918\n00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:02.760\nwhat are the qualities,\n\n919\n00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.760\nwhat are the problems that people have solved\n\n920\n00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.000\nthat you wanna bring on?\n\n921\n00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:09.760\nAnd changing that frame of reference,\n\n922\n00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.960\nI think is really important.\n\n923\n00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:14.600\nAnd then two, I see this a lot with leaders\n\n924\n00:39:14.600 --> 00:39:17.160\nis they're worried about hiring people\n\n925\n00:39:17.160 --> 00:39:19.120\nthat are better than themselves.\n\n926\n00:39:19.120 --> 00:39:21.800\nThey're worried that if they bring in someone smarter\n\n927\n00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.840\nor better, that they're gonna come and take their job.\n\n928\n00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:27.680\nAnd it is the most backwards thinking\n\n929\n00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:30.080\nbecause where you're most at risk\n\n930\n00:39:30.080 --> 00:39:31.680\nis when you don't have a strong team\n\n931\n00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:32.800\n'cause you're not scalable.\n\n932\n00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:34.640\nYou also can't get promoted\n\n933\n00:39:34.640 --> 00:39:37.160\nbecause there's nobody to take your spot.\n\n934\n00:39:37.160 --> 00:39:40.320\nAnd so you want to bring in people that are smarter,\n\n935\n00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:41.400\nthat are challenging you.\n\n936\n00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:43.880\n'Cause again, the power of a team\n\n937\n00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:46.120\nis so much stronger than any individual.\n\n938\n00:39:46.120 --> 00:39:50.360\n- I understand that you're really, really passionate\n\n939\n00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.080\nabout the fact that you should take time\n\n940\n00:39:52.080 --> 00:39:54.320\nto really write great job descriptions\n\n941\n00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:55.800\nfor the jobs that you have,\n\n942\n00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:57.520\nwhich is something that I never did.\n\n943\n00:39:57.520 --> 00:39:58.680\nI have to tell you,\n\n944\n00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:00.560\nmaybe I had some other people work on it,\n\n945\n00:40:00.560 --> 00:40:02.760\nbut I never really paid a whole hell of a lot of attention\n\n946\n00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.600\nin that, what are the two do's and not to do's\n\n947\n00:40:05.600 --> 00:40:07.920\nin that aspect of your leadership?\n\n948\n00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:09.880\n- It's similar to solving a problem\n\n949\n00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:13.040\nwithout knowing the goal that you're going after.\n\n950\n00:40:13.040 --> 00:40:15.840\nAnd so, I think Amazon got famous for this,\n\n951\n00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:17.360\nthat before they build products,\n\n952\n00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:18.760\nthey write out the press release\n\n953\n00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:21.880\nof what they want the product to highlight\n\n954\n00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:23.880\nand what pain point it's gonna solve.\n\n955\n00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:25.920\nAnd similar for a job description,\n\n956\n00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:28.080\nwhether it's writing out the actual job description\n\n957\n00:40:28.080 --> 00:40:29.760\nat this point, you have AI doing it,\n\n958\n00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:34.600\nbut solving what is it that you want this role to achieve?\n\n959\n00:40:34.600 --> 00:40:36.160\nWhat success in this role?\n\n960\n00:40:36.160 --> 00:40:39.640\nAnd then what does this type of person look like?\n\n961\n00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:41.720\nAnd without putting it on paper,\n\n962\n00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:44.480\nthere is so, and I've made this mistake so many times,\n\n963\n00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.840\nI think it's very black and white in my brain\n\n964\n00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:48.840\nand that I don't need to vocalize it.\n\n965\n00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.560\nAnd then somebody else thinks it's a completely different idea\n\n966\n00:40:52.560 --> 00:40:54.000\nand then a person appears and like,\n\n967\n00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:55.120\nhow did this person get here?\n\n968\n00:40:55.120 --> 00:40:57.640\nThey don't match what I'm looking for at all.\n\n969\n00:40:57.640 --> 00:40:58.840\nAnd how could they?\n\n970\n00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:01.680\nWe never had the conversation to agree up front\n\n971\n00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:04.440\nand now you've wasted all these people's time interviewing\n\n972\n00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:06.960\ngoing through the process and the candidates time.\n\n973\n00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.040\nAnd so, so much of writing up front\n\n974\n00:41:09.040 --> 00:41:11.920\nwhat success looks like just makes the whole process\n\n975\n00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:14.920\nmore efficient and effective and increases your chances\n\n976\n00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:16.480\nof landing the person you want,\n\n977\n00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:17.680\nwhich at the end of the day,\n\n978\n00:41:17.680 --> 00:41:20.080\nit's all about building the right team.\n\n979\n00:41:20.080 --> 00:41:23.120\n- You know, I understand that you've had a little bit\n\n980\n00:41:23.120 --> 00:41:25.840\nof learning on the use of the word rock star\n\n981\n00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:27.400\nin a job description.\n\n982\n00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:31.080\n- Yes, we had technology that ran\n\n983\n00:41:31.080 --> 00:41:33.960\nand one of the things we saw is job descriptions\n\n984\n00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:35.760\nare very gender biased.\n\n985\n00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:38.480\nAnd so when you put rock star,\n\n986\n00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:42.640\nmost of the applicants would end up being male\n\n987\n00:41:42.640 --> 00:41:46.200\nand many women would not associate with a rock star\n\n988\n00:41:46.200 --> 00:41:48.000\ndefinition and wouldn't apply\n\n989\n00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:52.200\nor replacing that with ninja or, you know,\n\n990\n00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:55.360\nstrengthen certain skills would materially change\n\n991\n00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:57.600\nwho and how the application process worked.\n\n992\n00:41:57.600 --> 00:42:00.920\nAnd it just highlights the inherent biases that we all have\n\n993\n00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:03.520\nand trying to get the most diverse pool of candidates\n\n994\n00:42:03.520 --> 00:42:04.880\nthat you can.\n\n995\n00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:07.320\n- Yeah, I wanna move back to Hootsuite,\n\n996\n00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:10.040\nwhich you're obviously very passionate about these days.\n\n997\n00:42:10.040 --> 00:42:12.120\nYou know, what brought you to Hootsuite\n\n998\n00:42:12.120 --> 00:42:14.160\nand what really drove that career decision?\n\n999\n00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:15.920\nAnd you had to be good at making it\n\n1000\n00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:17.880\nafter being a career builder.\n\n1001\n00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:19.080\n- It was two things.\n\n1002\n00:42:19.080 --> 00:42:24.080\nOne, I wanted something that was at this catalystic change.\n\n1003\n00:42:25.240 --> 00:42:27.720\nI wanted something that was between communications\n\n1004\n00:42:27.720 --> 00:42:31.920\nand technology that was on this precipice of disruption\n\n1005\n00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.520\nand social media is sitting there.\n\n1006\n00:42:34.520 --> 00:42:36.560\nMost businesses haven't figured out\n\n1007\n00:42:36.560 --> 00:42:40.400\nand we did the study that 95% of businesses are on social media\n\n1008\n00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.160\nand yet almost 60% have no ability\n\n1009\n00:42:44.160 --> 00:42:46.600\nto understand the value that social media drives\n\n1010\n00:42:46.600 --> 00:42:48.280\nto their business.\n\n1011\n00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.440\nAnd if I were to tell you that somebody's 95%\n\n1012\n00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:53.880\nof the audience is on a tool\n\n1013\n00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:56.080\nthat they don't know the value of that tool,\n\n1014\n00:42:56.080 --> 00:43:00.480\nyou would think that is an exciting problem to go solve.\n\n1015\n00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:03.840\nAnd to me, I think it's one of the biggest challenges\n\n1016\n00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:05.840\nand opportunities, 'cause again,\n\n1017\n00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:07.640\nwhere else can you find five billion people\n\n1018\n00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:10.480\nthat are checking in every single day for three hours a day?\n\n1019\n00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:13.400\nThis is a problem that has to get solved and will get solved\n\n1020\n00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:16.440\nand I am excited that I got to find a company\n\n1021\n00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:17.840\nthat can help solve it.\n\n1022\n00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:19.360\nAnd I love the owl.\n\n1023\n00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:20.840\nThe brand just got me.\n\n1024\n00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:23.800\nIt is just a fun, cute owl\n\n1025\n00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:26.520\nand you know, sometimes you just have to have a little fun in life.\n\n1026\n00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:28.280\n- You know, you mentioned earlier\n\n1027\n00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:30.120\nthat you have your own recognition award,\n\n1028\n00:43:30.120 --> 00:43:31.960\nis it an owl or what is it?\n\n1029\n00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:33.200\n- Yeah.\n\n1030\n00:43:33.200 --> 00:43:35.880\nSo one of the things that I got from you\n\n1031\n00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.640\nis used to this rubber chicken\n\n1032\n00:43:37.640 --> 00:43:39.320\nand in the remote world,\n\n1033\n00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:41.040\none of the things that I've started doing\n\n1034\n00:43:41.040 --> 00:43:43.880\nis every week we have a hoot check\n\n1035\n00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:47.320\nwhere we check in with our owls for 15 minutes.\n\n1036\n00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.160\nEvery week it's global.\n\n1037\n00:43:49.160 --> 00:43:51.320\nWe have the majority of company join\n\n1038\n00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:55.160\nand we recognize people for either a deal that they signed,\n\n1039\n00:43:55.160 --> 00:43:56.840\na new product launch,\n\n1040\n00:43:56.840 --> 00:43:59.200\nyou know, a customer success event that they did,\n\n1041\n00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:01.280\nwhatever it is, every week it's different.\n\n1042\n00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:03.560\nAnd we use this as 15 minutes\n\n1043\n00:44:03.560 --> 00:44:06.480\nof bringing a global workforce together\n\n1044\n00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.120\nto recognize our owls.\n\n1045\n00:44:09.120 --> 00:44:11.360\nAnd it was in the big part of hearing\n\n1046\n00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:13.360\nhow important reward and recognition\n\n1047\n00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.040\nwas in your leadership style.\n\n1048\n00:44:16.040 --> 00:44:17.920\n- You know, you mentioned earlier\n\n1049\n00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.720\nthat you just acquired this analytics firm\n\n1050\n00:44:20.720 --> 00:44:22.400\ncalled Talkwalker.\n\n1051\n00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.920\nI love to get in to the head of how leaders make decisions\n\n1052\n00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.840\nand take us through this decision\n\n1053\n00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:29.800\nto make an acquisition,\n\n1054\n00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:31.520\nwhich is always a game changer\n\n1055\n00:44:31.520 --> 00:44:33.640\nor should be a game changer for your company.\n\n1056\n00:44:33.640 --> 00:44:38.680\nIt takes a lot of guts to step up and make an acquisition.\n\n1057\n00:44:38.680 --> 00:44:39.880\nHow did you make the decision?\n\n1058\n00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:42.280\nTake us through your thought process.\n\n1059\n00:44:42.280 --> 00:44:45.040\n- One, it started with listening to our customers.\n\n1060\n00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:47.640\nAnd so when we pulled our customers,\n\n1061\n00:44:47.640 --> 00:44:49.520\none of the biggest things that we saw\n\n1062\n00:44:49.520 --> 00:44:51.760\nthat was gonna help drive this unlocking\n\n1063\n00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.880\nof value of social media relationships\n\n1064\n00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:55.880\nwas all around listening.\n\n1065\n00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.640\nThe listening analytics, what are customers saying?\n\n1066\n00:44:59.640 --> 00:45:02.760\nThe listening allowed you to target on customer care.\n\n1067\n00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:05.040\nThe listening allowed you to expand customers.\n\n1068\n00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:08.040\nThe listening knew who were the right new audience\n\n1069\n00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:09.080\nto go after.\n\n1070\n00:45:09.080 --> 00:45:12.280\nAnd so while we had the same listening capabilities\n\n1071\n00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:13.640\nas everyone else in the industry,\n\n1072\n00:45:13.640 --> 00:45:16.160\nnone of it was really next generation.\n\n1073\n00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:17.520\nNone of it was leapfrogging.\n\n1074\n00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:19.880\nAnd so we took a step back and looked at\n\n1075\n00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:21.920\nwhat companies are breaking the mold,\n\n1076\n00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.560\nwhich ones are using AI to do it differently,\n\n1077\n00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:26.160\nwhich ones are the best in the space.\n\n1078\n00:45:26.160 --> 00:45:28.400\nAnd so we narrowed down to Tockwacker,\n\n1079\n00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:29.640\nwhich was the number one.\n\n1080\n00:45:29.640 --> 00:45:32.480\nAnd we went and got it done.\n\n1081\n00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:35.520\nAnd part of the excitement is,\n\n1082\n00:45:35.520 --> 00:45:37.840\nwhen you look at diligence for a deal,\n\n1083\n00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:39.320\nmost deals don't work.\n\n1084\n00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:42.920\nSo there's a lot of scariness that comes along with it.\n\n1085\n00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.000\nAs you know, there were two things that really stood out.\n\n1086\n00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.480\nOne, we saw the product demo and it was just like\n\n1087\n00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:53.440\nmy entire product and dev team were like kids in a toy store.\n\n1088\n00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.720\nThey just were like, what, how is this possible?\n\n1089\n00:45:56.720 --> 00:45:59.080\nAnd the way that they do it is really interesting,\n\n1090\n00:45:59.080 --> 00:46:01.080\nthe way they listen, the technology behind it\n\n1091\n00:46:01.080 --> 00:46:03.120\nand the AI and happy to share about it.\n\n1092\n00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:04.960\nAnd the second thing that really stood out,\n\n1093\n00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.720\nand this is the thing that with any relationship\n\n1094\n00:46:07.720 --> 00:46:09.000\nis the key.\n\n1095\n00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:12.840\nThere has to be a chemistry, there has to be a fit.\n\n1096\n00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:15.040\nAnd you can have a great product,\n\n1097\n00:46:15.040 --> 00:46:16.360\nbut the people just don't work.\n\n1098\n00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:18.600\nYou have different values, it'll never work.\n\n1099\n00:46:18.600 --> 00:46:21.680\nThe integration will just, the culture of the company\n\n1100\n00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:23.040\nwill just mutiny.\n\n1101\n00:46:23.040 --> 00:46:25.200\nAnd one of the things that was amazing to watch\n\n1102\n00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:27.680\nwas not just the power of the product capabilities\n\n1103\n00:46:27.680 --> 00:46:32.080\nand the platform, it was that we had similar values.\n\n1104\n00:46:32.080 --> 00:46:34.320\nWe had the Snow Asshole policy,\n\n1105\n00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:37.120\nwe had the customer comes first.\n\n1106\n00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:38.840\nWhen I asked the employees to talk,\n\n1107\n00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:40.520\n\"Why'd they stay for all these years?\"\n\n1108\n00:46:40.520 --> 00:46:42.320\nTheir number one answer is the relationships,\n\n1109\n00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:43.880\nwhich was the number one answer.\n\n1110\n00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:45.480\nOwls at Hootsuite gave me.\n\n1111\n00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.520\nAnd seeing the similarities in the culture\n\n1112\n00:46:48.520 --> 00:46:51.600\nwas really what brought me into kind of finalizing it.\n\n1113\n00:46:51.600 --> 00:46:54.320\nThe product is great, but making sure\n\n1114\n00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:56.800\nthat the culture alignment was critical.\n\n1115\n00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:58.960\n- Do they work virtually as well?\n\n1116\n00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:01.520\n- We're a mix, we have offices all over the world.\n\n1117\n00:47:01.520 --> 00:47:05.200\nAnd so some offices they're coming in, some are virtual.\n\n1118\n00:47:05.200 --> 00:47:07.360\nI would say we're a really good mix\n\n1119\n00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:09.320\nwhere there's people that come in several days a week\n\n1120\n00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:12.080\nand then there's some that are not near any office.\n\n1121\n00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:16.240\nAnd when you think about the integration of Talkwalker\n\n1122\n00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:18.720\nand Hootsuite, who have you gone to to learn\n\n1123\n00:47:18.720 --> 00:47:21.320\non how to really make that a success\n\n1124\n00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:24.160\nor what are you going to do to make it work?\n\n1125\n00:47:24.160 --> 00:47:26.040\n- I have been part of lots of M&A\n\n1126\n00:47:26.040 --> 00:47:28.320\njust given my own background.\n\n1127\n00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.280\nAnd one of the things that I have seen\n\n1128\n00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:32.280\nthat makes M&A really successful\n\n1129\n00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:34.480\nis really narrowing the focus\n\n1130\n00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.400\nbecause you can integrate for years and years and years.\n\n1131\n00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.640\nAnd so starting with what is the biggest problem\n\n1132\n00:47:39.640 --> 00:47:41.560\nthat you're solving for our customers\n\n1133\n00:47:41.560 --> 00:47:43.840\nand really staying focused on that?\n\n1134\n00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:46.920\nAnd so for us, it's taking all these listening tools\n\n1135\n00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:48.720\nand analytics and bringing it\n\n1136\n00:47:48.720 --> 00:47:50.680\nto the fingertips of our customers.\n\n1137\n00:47:50.680 --> 00:47:54.080\nSo you can go now, it's already live, we're integrated.\n\n1138\n00:47:54.080 --> 00:47:56.120\nWe worked on that before the deal announcement\n\n1139\n00:47:56.120 --> 00:47:58.280\nwhich allowed us to get to market faster,\n\n1140\n00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:02.080\nbut you can go in and you can type how leaders lead\n\n1141\n00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:04.560\nand you can see how many people are listening.\n\n1142\n00:48:04.560 --> 00:48:05.560\nWhat's the sentiment?\n\n1143\n00:48:05.560 --> 00:48:06.640\nWhat's the market share?\n\n1144\n00:48:06.640 --> 00:48:08.720\nWhere are people talking about you the most?\n\n1145\n00:48:08.720 --> 00:48:10.800\nAnd so bringing some of those things\n\n1146\n00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:12.680\nthat our customers care about the most\n\n1147\n00:48:12.680 --> 00:48:14.960\ninto the tool fast is really important.\n\n1148\n00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.280\nAnd then two, just keeping people focused\n\n1149\n00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:20.640\non the execution of what it is that they need to do.\n\n1150\n00:48:20.640 --> 00:48:22.280\nEveryone had full time jobs before\n\n1151\n00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:27.080\nand it's easy to kind of get into the drama in the mix\n\n1152\n00:48:27.080 --> 00:48:28.560\nof I have to travel, I have to do this,\n\n1153\n00:48:28.560 --> 00:48:31.000\nI have to run around and just keeping people focused\n\n1154\n00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.400\non really clear targets for success.\n\n1155\n00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:36.480\n- You know, Irene, this has been so much fun\n\n1156\n00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:37.640\nand I wanna have some more\n\n1157\n00:48:37.640 --> 00:48:39.240\nwith my lightning round of questions.\n\n1158\n00:48:39.240 --> 00:48:40.200\nAre you ready for this?\n\n1159\n00:48:40.200 --> 00:48:41.400\n- I'm ready.\n\n1160\n00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:43.840\n- The three words that best describe you.\n\n1161\n00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:48.080\n- Energizing, motivating, authentic.\n\n1162\n00:48:48.080 --> 00:48:49.800\n- If you could be one person for a day\n\n1163\n00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.040\nbeside yourself, who would it be?\n\n1164\n00:48:52.040 --> 00:48:55.360\n- An astronaut, I would love to seize your gravity.\n\n1165\n00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:57.840\n- What's your biggest pet peeves?\n\n1166\n00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.520\n- The word no, just getting told no.\n\n1167\n00:49:00.520 --> 00:49:02.440\n- Who would play you in a movie?\n\n1168\n00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.000\n- Audrey Hepburn.\n\n1169\n00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:07.080\n- What's your favorite social media platform?\n\n1170\n00:49:07.080 --> 00:49:08.160\n- Oh, how many get in trouble?\n\n1171\n00:49:08.160 --> 00:49:09.480\nYou can't pick among children,\n\n1172\n00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:13.840\nbut I really am into LinkedIn these days.\n\n1173\n00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.440\n- What's the number of hours you spend\n\n1174\n00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:17.320\non social media every week?\n\n1175\n00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:21.960\n- Every week a lot, probably 30 plus hours\n\n1176\n00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:23.720\nand that's probably being kind.\n\n1177\n00:49:23.720 --> 00:49:26.200\n- What's something about Ukraine\n\n1178\n00:49:26.200 --> 00:49:28.120\nyou'd only know if you're from there?\n\n1179\n00:49:28.120 --> 00:49:31.280\n- The Piedmianye are delicious.\n\n1180\n00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:33.440\n- Describe how you felt the first time you ate\n\n1181\n00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:34.400\nat Red Lobster.\n\n1182\n00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:38.720\n- I've never had lobster before, so it was amazing\n\n1183\n00:49:38.720 --> 00:49:41.600\nand it was Le Guini Alfredo or whatever.\n\n1184\n00:49:41.600 --> 00:49:43.760\nIt was, I remember it to this day.\n\n1185\n00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:45.520\nI am so impressed you found that.\n\n1186\n00:49:45.520 --> 00:49:46.760\n(laughs)\n\n1187\n00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.720\n- What's your favorite fact about Abraham Lincoln?\n\n1188\n00:49:49.720 --> 00:49:54.360\n- That he was born on the same day as I was.\n\n1189\n00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:57.960\n- If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1190\n00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:00.760\n- Ochenewevers, sienco la fiesta.\n\n1191\n00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:02.400\n(laughs)\n\n1192\n00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:05.440\n- What's something about you few people would know?\n\n1193\n00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:08.240\n- I dance almost every day\n\n1194\n00:50:08.240 --> 00:50:13.240\nand I put myself in professionally scary situations\n\n1195\n00:50:13.240 --> 00:50:16.800\nwhere I am terrified at least once a week.\n\n1196\n00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:18.160\n(laughs)\n\n1197\n00:50:18.160 --> 00:50:19.440\n- I gotta ask you this one.\n\n1198\n00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.760\nWhat's your go to order at Taco Bell?\n\n1199\n00:50:21.760 --> 00:50:25.560\n- Oh my gosh, the Cool Ranch Dorito Tacos\n\n1200\n00:50:25.560 --> 00:50:27.360\nand they're always out of the Cool Ranch\n\n1201\n00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:29.320\nso then I end up getting the other one.\n\n1202\n00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:30.800\nI forgot the red one that I got,\n\n1203\n00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.680\nthe regular Dorito one.\n\n1204\n00:50:32.680 --> 00:50:35.440\n- Dorito's, yeah Dorito's Locust Tacos, there you go.\n\n1205\n00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:36.280\n- Yes.\n\n1206\n00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:37.120\n- All right, fantastic.\n\n1207\n00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:41.160\nYou put yourself at risk at least once a week.\n\n1208\n00:50:41.160 --> 00:50:42.600\nGet out of your comfort zone.\n\n1209\n00:50:42.600 --> 00:50:44.280\nLast big risk.\n\n1210\n00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:45.200\n- Doing a deal?\n\n1211\n00:50:45.200 --> 00:50:46.920\n(laughs)\n\n1212\n00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:47.760\n- There you go.\n\n1213\n00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:51.640\n- Doing M&A is so scary and especially when you know\n\n1214\n00:50:51.640 --> 00:50:54.360\nthe stats of, I mean it's like marriage, anything.\n\n1215\n00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:56.480\nYou go in and you're taking a really big risk\n\n1216\n00:50:56.480 --> 00:50:57.600\non how do you make it work\n\n1217\n00:50:57.600 --> 00:50:59.880\nand you have a lot of people counting on you\n\n1218\n00:50:59.880 --> 00:51:01.920\n'cause it's their job and their career\n\n1219\n00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.200\nand you wanna make sure you do it right.\n\n1220\n00:51:04.200 --> 00:51:06.000\n- You know the highest performing companies\n\n1221\n00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:08.640\nalways seem to have something bigger to focus on\n\n1222\n00:51:08.640 --> 00:51:10.200\nthan just themselves.\n\n1223\n00:51:10.200 --> 00:51:13.480\nYou know, I like to call it your noble cause.\n\n1224\n00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.720\nWhat would be the noble cause for a Hootsuite\n\n1225\n00:51:15.720 --> 00:51:18.000\nthat you're inviting your team into?\n\n1226\n00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:21.400\nPaint the picture of the compelling vision that you have.\n\n1227\n00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:23.360\n- Yeah, so one of the things that,\n\n1228\n00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:25.600\nthere was a Harvard study that followed people around\n\n1229\n00:51:25.600 --> 00:51:26.960\nfor 70 plus years.\n\n1230\n00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.280\nIt was one of the longest running studies\n\n1231\n00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.160\nand they asked humans at every age\n\n1232\n00:51:32.160 --> 00:51:34.120\nand then right before their end of life\n\n1233\n00:51:34.120 --> 00:51:35.800\nwhat is most important?\n\n1234\n00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:39.560\nAnd there was one universal answer that kept coming up\n\n1235\n00:51:39.560 --> 00:51:41.880\nand it was about relationships.\n\n1236\n00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:44.200\nThat whether wherever you are in life,\n\n1237\n00:51:44.200 --> 00:51:45.440\nthe thing that is most important\n\n1238\n00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:47.400\nis the relationships that you build.\n\n1239\n00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.400\nIt's the quality, it's the length,\n\n1240\n00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:53.600\nit's how much you invest the vulnerability, the trust\n\n1241\n00:51:53.600 --> 00:51:57.280\nand the mission we're on is building relationships\n\n1242\n00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:59.800\nwith each other, helping our customers\n\n1243\n00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:02.320\nbuild relationships on social media\n\n1244\n00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:05.440\nand the world is powered by relationships.\n\n1245\n00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:08.960\nIt's the number one reason that owls stay at Hootsuite.\n\n1246\n00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.800\nIt's the number one reason customers buy Hootsuite.\n\n1247\n00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:14.520\nI'll give you a fun fact.\n\n1248\n00:52:14.520 --> 00:52:18.840\n90% of our business comes to our front door\n\n1249\n00:52:18.840 --> 00:52:21.320\nthrough references, referrals.\n\n1250\n00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:23.800\nAll of that is based on relationships.\n\n1251\n00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:26.000\nAnd so we're here to help the world\n\n1252\n00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:28.640\nto figure out how to build better relationships.\n\n1253\n00:52:28.640 --> 00:52:30.440\n- I think that's a great noble cause.\n\n1254\n00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:33.120\nYou know, about five weeks ago my wife passed away\n\n1255\n00:52:33.120 --> 00:52:36.520\nand I think of our 49 years together\n\n1256\n00:52:36.520 --> 00:52:40.880\nand that relationship was, it transcends everything.\n\n1257\n00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:42.960\nSo if you can build a company\n\n1258\n00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:47.040\nthat can help people build relationships,\n\n1259\n00:52:47.040 --> 00:52:49.320\nI think that's very, very powerful.\n\n1260\n00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.080\nLast question, what's one piece of advice\n\n1261\n00:52:52.080 --> 00:52:55.320\nyou'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader?\n\n1262\n00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:56.960\n- It's gonna be relationships.\n\n1263\n00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:58.680\nI think it took me a while,\n\n1264\n00:52:58.680 --> 00:53:00.720\nespecially coming from finance,\n\n1265\n00:53:00.720 --> 00:53:04.080\nto feel comfortable, to be my authentic self.\n\n1266\n00:53:04.080 --> 00:53:06.160\nI think it's really easy to view things\n\n1267\n00:53:06.160 --> 00:53:08.680\nin a very transactional way.\n\n1268\n00:53:08.680 --> 00:53:12.240\nAnd you end up spending the majority of your time\n\n1269\n00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:14.120\nwith the team that you work with.\n\n1270\n00:53:14.120 --> 00:53:17.560\nMost of your awake hours are the people that you work with.\n\n1271\n00:53:17.560 --> 00:53:19.520\nYou come back a little bit of a raisin, right?\n\n1272\n00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:21.560\nAll the energy is taken, you're tired\n\n1273\n00:53:21.560 --> 00:53:24.240\nand whatever's left, you're kind of figuring out\n\n1274\n00:53:24.240 --> 00:53:25.080\nin the evening.\n\n1275\n00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:27.280\nAnd so, you know, if you have the luxury\n\n1276\n00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:28.840\nof being able to do what you love,\n\n1277\n00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:31.800\nwhich I think is a luxury, not everybody gets that,\n\n1278\n00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:34.680\nthen picking who you do it with is really important.\n\n1279\n00:53:34.680 --> 00:53:37.920\nAnd as leaders, you want people to think about you fondly.\n\n1280\n00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:39.320\nYou want people to think about,\n\n1281\n00:53:39.320 --> 00:53:42.520\nI learned with this person, I got pushed with this person,\n\n1282\n00:53:42.520 --> 00:53:45.320\nI built a relationship with this person.\n\n1283\n00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:46.240\n'Cause at the end of the day,\n\n1284\n00:53:46.240 --> 00:53:48.240\nyou're spending all this time with someone.\n\n1285\n00:53:48.240 --> 00:53:50.200\nYou wanna enjoy who you're doing with\n\n1286\n00:53:50.200 --> 00:53:51.680\nand it's a two-way street.\n\n1287\n00:53:51.680 --> 00:53:53.480\nI wanna learn from my team.\n\n1288\n00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:55.600\nI hope my team learns anything from me,\n\n1289\n00:53:55.600 --> 00:53:58.200\nbut it's build relationships first\n\n1290\n00:53:58.200 --> 00:54:00.040\namong anything else.\n\n1291\n00:54:00.040 --> 00:54:01.480\n- Irene, I have to tell you,\n\n1292\n00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:03.120\nI just love this conversation.\n\n1293\n00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:06.560\nWhen you meet a leader who can be so inspiring\n\n1294\n00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:08.560\nand knows what they're doing\n\n1295\n00:54:08.560 --> 00:54:10.640\nand is focused on doing it the right way,\n\n1296\n00:54:10.640 --> 00:54:12.360\nit's always inspiring to me.\n\n1297\n00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:14.440\nAnd you're obviously one of those leaders.\n\n1298\n00:54:14.440 --> 00:54:16.680\nAnd I'm so honored, I got the chance\n\n1299\n00:54:16.680 --> 00:54:18.440\nto have this conversation with you.\n\n1300\n00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:19.720\n- David, I am so honored.\n\n1301\n00:54:19.720 --> 00:54:23.000\nI was telling you how I was just consuming your book\n\n1302\n00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:24.480\nyears and years and years ago.\n\n1303\n00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.640\nAnd this is just a full circle moment for me\n\n1304\n00:54:27.640 --> 00:54:31.840\nbecause it's hard people talk about their successes\n\n1305\n00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:34.760\nand they never talk about the how or the lessons\n\n1306\n00:54:34.760 --> 00:54:36.320\nor the failures that they've done\n\n1307\n00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:40.280\nor the very practical guide on how to become a leader.\n\n1308\n00:54:40.280 --> 00:54:43.160\nAnd I found your book did that.\n\n1309\n00:54:43.160 --> 00:54:46.720\nAnd it was so humble and no ego\n\n1310\n00:54:46.720 --> 00:54:51.200\nand you just led with this human first approach.\n\n1311\n00:54:51.200 --> 00:54:54.280\nAnd it's something that just has really resonated\n\n1312\n00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:55.720\nwith me throughout my career.\n\n1313\n00:54:55.720 --> 00:54:58.120\nAnd as I'm looking on continuously\n\n1314\n00:54:58.120 --> 00:55:00.080\nbeing a better leader myself.\n\n1315\n00:55:00.080 --> 00:55:02.080\n- Well, thank you, you just made my day.\n\n1316\n00:55:02.080 --> 00:55:04.160\n(laughs)\n\n1317\n00:55:04.160 --> 00:55:15.520\n- Well, there's no doubt about it.\n\n1318\n00:55:15.520 --> 00:55:18.520\nIrina is a bold leader.\n\n1319\n00:55:18.520 --> 00:55:20.720\nShe isn't afraid to defy conventions\n\n1320\n00:55:20.720 --> 00:55:22.320\nand ruffle some feathers.\n\n1321\n00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:24.520\nAnd I love how she pairs that boldness\n\n1322\n00:55:24.520 --> 00:55:27.520\nwith the desire to build authentic relationships\n\n1323\n00:55:27.520 --> 00:55:30.000\nand bring out the best in people.\n\n1324\n00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:33.440\nLet me tell you, it's a powerful combination.\n\n1325\n00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:35.680\nAnd I hope it's gotten your wheels turning\n\n1326\n00:55:35.680 --> 00:55:38.640\nabout how you can bring that kind of relational bolders\n\n1327\n00:55:38.640 --> 00:55:40.320\nto your career.\n\n1328\n00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:43.120\nFor starters, consider Irina's advice\n\n1329\n00:55:43.120 --> 00:55:46.280\nto stand near closed doors and knock.\n\n1330\n00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:49.960\nWhat door feels closed to you in your career right now?\n\n1331\n00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:52.080\nWhat would it look like to knock on it?\n\n1332\n00:55:52.080 --> 00:55:55.680\nAnd what's keeping you from taking that bold step?\n\n1333\n00:55:55.680 --> 00:55:57.640\nConsider those questions this week.\n\n1334\n00:55:57.640 --> 00:56:00.280\nAnd hey, let's apply Irina's insights\n\n1335\n00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:02.440\nand connect on social media.\n\n1336\n00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:05.400\nReach out to me on X at David Novak-Ogo\n\n1337\n00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:09.080\nor on LinkedIn and tell me your big takeaway.\n\n1338\n00:56:09.080 --> 00:56:10.920\nSo do you wanna know how leaders lead?\n\n1339\n00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:13.120\nWhat we learned today is that great leaders\n\n1340\n00:56:13.120 --> 00:56:15.040\nmake bold connections.\n\n1341\n00:56:15.040 --> 00:56:18.120\nComing up next on how leaders lead is Eric Church,\n\n1342\n00:56:18.120 --> 00:56:22.440\nCMA Entertainer of the Year and 10 Time Grammy nominee.\n\n1343\n00:56:22.440 --> 00:56:24.160\nBusiness music, it's all the same.\n\n1344\n00:56:24.160 --> 00:56:26.880\nIt's all about getting to where you wanna go.\n\n1345\n00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:31.120\nAnd for me, that has been clear throughout my entire career.\n\n1346\n00:56:31.120 --> 00:56:32.800\nIf you don't have the vision,\n\n1347\n00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:36.040\nyou can't expect anybody else to have it for you.\n\n1348\n00:56:36.040 --> 00:56:37.800\nSo be sure to come back again next week\n\n1349\n00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.280\nto hear our entire conversation.\n\n1350\n00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:42.240\nThanks for tuning in to another episode\n\n1351\n00:56:42.240 --> 00:56:44.120\nof How leaders lead where every Thursday\n\n1352\n00:56:44.120 --> 00:56:46.080\nyou get to listen in while I interview\n\n1353\n00:56:46.080 --> 00:56:48.560\nsome of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1354\n00:56:48.560 --> 00:56:50.600\nI make it a point to give you something simple\n\n1355\n00:56:50.600 --> 00:56:54.040\non each episode that you can apply to your business\n\n1356\n00:56:54.040 --> 00:56:56.760\nso that you'll become the best leader you can be.\n\n1357\n00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:59.360\n(gentle music)\n\n1358\n00:56:59.360 --> 00:57:01.940\n(gentle music)\n\n1359\n00:57:01.940 --> 00:57:04.520\n(gentle music)\n\n1360\n00:57:04.520 --> 00:57:07.100\n(gentle music)\n\n1361\n00:57:07.100 --> 00:57:09.680\n(gentle music)\n\n1362\n00:57:09.680 --> 00:57:12.180\n(buzzing)\n","

Koula Callahan 0:00

Hey everyone, it's cooler from three more questions. And before we get started with today's interview, I want to remind you to pick up your copy of David's brand new book, how leaders learn. It's been so fun seeing all the great reviews that have come in. I want to read you one from Indra Nooyi. She's the former CEO of PepsiCo, she and David worked together for a number of years. And Dre has read the book and here's what she says about it. beautifully written, easy to understand the examples he cites and the lessons and a typical David Novak folksy style. The book is fun to read, you'll feel you're in those pages, get a copy and sit back with it, you are going to love the book. Indra Nooyi loves the book. There are hundreds of others who have already gotten their copy and are loving the book as well. So if you haven't yet, order your copy of how leaders learn today, and I promise you're gonna love it.

David Novak 0:57

Welcome to how leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. If social media has ever felt a little mystifying to you, then you hit play on the right episode today. Because I'm sitting down with Irina Nova Celski, the CEO of the social media management platform, Hootsuite, she's got a lot of practical tips for you today on how you can improve your social media strategy and actually start to dial in the return it gives you. But that's just the beginning. When you hear Irene his story, which starts in the Ukraine, you'll see how you can transform your career by making bold connections. Her ability to boldly defy conventions, while also building relationships is a powerful combination. And it's a mentality every leader needs to develop. So let's dive in. Here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours. Irina Nova Celski.

I was just talking to you before we went on and you said your dad called you today. Tell us about that conversation because I loved it.

Irina Novoselsky 2:17

I was telling him about a problem I had at work and he called me back and goes, I have an idea. You should put it into chat GPT. And they'll help you figure out the answer. And it was just such a humbling moment of you're constantly supposed to be learning.

David Novak 2:31

And how old is your dad?

Unknown Speaker 2:33

He's in his late 80s.

David Novak 2:35

Yeah, so he's he's learning as we speak, right, Chad

Irina Novoselsky 2:38

GPT might be his, you know, personal advisor at this point.

David Novak 2:42

I love it, you know? And now I understand, not surprisingly, that you start your day on social media. What does that routine look like? It's embarrassing.

Irina Novoselsky 2:52

And I finally have a job where it is considered work. And it's, um, it's you know, in all the health books that you read, you're supposed to go straight into sunlight, you're supposed to be outside, the last thing you're supposed to do is look at your phone. But I literally do that I pick up my phone and I just go through all the social media channels, it gives me such a great sense of what people are talking about what's trending, what is top of mind for our customers, as they're targeting their end customers. And so it is my way of just staying in the loop before I dive into the hole of work.

David Novak 3:26

Well, I can't wait to dive in and learn how you're leading HootSuite. And first of all, I want to I want to take you back and start at the beginning. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today,

Irina Novoselsky 3:39

I would probably say two things. We came here with very little financial resources. And one of the things that I learned really quickly is, it's not how much you make that determines the character of a person or the value of a person. And it materially just changed my perspective on having a successful job doesn't make you a successful person. And seeing how people just work really hard and sometimes don't have the luxury or the luck in life to get into a role that they're passionate about, that they just have to work because it's financially important. And it just immediately humbles you. When you think about that, and it's a gratitude that I've kept throughout my life. It also is enabled me to see potential in people outside of the experience. So one of the things that I really appreciate is, I don't really care so much have you done the job? It's Can you do it? And I think that stems a lot from just watching. The people around me just do things and they may never have had the experience to learn or someone teach them how and it's just that character of perseverance and figuring it out. That's one I think the second thing is a little bit of this power of No, I think if you are you know, as an immigrant when I came here, if somebody told me how hard certain things would have been, I don't know if I would have had have the gumption to go and power through it. But one step at a time when somebody tells you that's not possible, you see all these people around you that come and learn a new language and find a job and overcome all of these obstacles that it puts your own day to day paths have no in perspective to think, Okay, well, if you can move to a whole nother country and start over, I can solve this little problem or this No, is not really a realistic, no. And so it just changes your whole perspective of what's possible. You

David Novak 5:30

know, speaking of jobs, tell us about your first job as a kid. I've

Irina Novoselsky 5:34

had a lot David, one of the things that you know, I as a kid, you want things you want to buy ice cream you want, you know, and I don't know, toys, whatever it is, and the environment I grew up, there was no way I was going to ask my parents, I knew how tight financials were. And so if I wanted anything, I had to earn it myself. And one of the things I saw in my development, and it was everything from we would have garage sales, I would have my parents go to Sam's Club at the time and buy water bottles and sell them for $1. I would do yard work I would do car cleaning. i You name it. I had a candy business on the side and middle school where I was got kicked out. But it was all about I liked getting people together because I would definitely enlist all the local kids. And I liked watching something grow, how you could take one thing and turn it into something else. And it was nice to be able to buy my own candy. Yeah, I

David Novak 6:28

love this story I heard about you, would you mind sharing with us how you spent your 16th birthday.

Irina Novoselsky 6:34

This is real. So this is kind of what brings me full circle to you. So Taco Bell was a luxury in our home. And anytime we had something really fun to celebrate or important, we would treat ourselves and go to fast food. And I come from a family that we did not spend money on restaurants or anything like that. And so Taco Bell was the treat. And so around me all of my friends were having sweet sixteens. And this wasn't something a an Eastern European culture you celebrate B there was no way I was having a sweet 16 party. And so my mom at the time said, Well, why don't we go to Taco Bell, and you can order anything that you want. And I remember taking my good friend at the time. And you know, when you walk in, and I just ordered four or five things off that menu, and I felt so rich to just be able to go crazy and wild on this menu. And we sat and we had the taco supreme, we had I mean we we ate it all. And it was one of the happiest birthdays that I celebrated. And it's I still to this day, whenever I go on long car rides, I cannot drive by a Taco Bell without a stop. And my my new favorite orders is the Doritos tacos, the Cool Ranch, but it held a really special place in my childhood.

David Novak 7:49

I'm gonna get David Gibbs, the yum CEO to send you some coupons so you can save more money. You came over here as an immigrant from the Ukraine. And you say being an immigrant gives you both hunger and hope. Talk more about that.

Irina Novoselsky 8:08

You know, I think that there's two lotteries in life, two main ones. One is the parents you're born to, you don't control that. And it influences such a material part of your life. And the second lottery is the geography. And I did not win the geography. You know, I was born in the Soviet Union. But I won the parent lottery. And they were able to take me out of that geography and put me in an environment that is a meritocracy, where maybe I didn't have the same things that my peers did, or I didn't grow up understanding that you have to take your SATs to get into college, there's a lot of things that I had to learn. But it was one of those things where I feel so grateful to be in a country where I can work hard and in one generation go from refugee to CEO. And it is a gratitude I carry with me that it just puts everything in perspective of how do I help influence people around me? How do I help teams around me? How do I help people realize their dreams, in an environment that also drives similar values?

David Novak 9:15

You know, that's interesting, because people always ask me about, you know, what was my biggest break? And I tell them basically the same thing, you know, that I was born to son of Charles and Jean Novak. And I was born in the United States of America. And when you have loving parents, and you're born in this country, you're so much ahead of the you know, the other 100 7 billion people in the world. It's really is amazing. On a serious note here, more serious note, you know, you see all that's been happening over in Ukraine, and you come from that part of the world, you know, what do you think America should be doing about Are you Are we doing the right things or what's your thoughts on it?

Irina Novoselsky 9:55

I wish there was a simple solution. I will tell you that when I was watching During the war, get started one of the things that really hit me and I was actually in the process of finalizing and assessing, taking this HootSuite role, and I watched how social media materially changed the future of a country that otherwise would have had a very different result, probably similar to what happened with Bella Russia and Crimea. And one of the reasons that Ukraine is a conversation we're able to have right now, and not just part of Russia is because social media happened and all around the world, people were talking about what was happening and how this was not okay. And it just raises what a group of people can do, even against one tough opponent, that the unity of a team, no matter what the team is, whether it's this combination of world citizens coming together to say, Hey, this is not okay, we can fight this, we can do better than this just had such a powerful impact on me that where we are today, there isn't going to be a clear answer and clear resolution, because this is, this is a tough situation where there's no really good answer on how to get out of it. But one of the ways to help make sure that it gets to something that's more positive than where it is today is continuing to talk about it, continuing to raise awareness around it. I think it's when the bullies have a pulpit and nobody's standing up is when the world gets really dangerous.

David Novak 11:28

Oh, great point, you know, and that's a perfect segue into jumping ahead and talking about what you're doing today, give us a snapshot of HootSuite and the business that you lead. So

Irina Novoselsky 11:40

we are here helping our customers around the world unlock the value of their social media relationships. And I think you'll relate to this a lot, I believe. And we believe that relationships was the number one thing that matters most, whether it's one on one interactions, whether it's with your team, and especially on social media, we have over 5 billion people that are on social media spending almost two and a half hours a day. And David, I'm convinced that that stat is highly underrepresented, because people are embarrassed to actually tell you how long and how much they're actually spending on it. But it's one of the last channels where you can have a two way dialogue with your customers. And they're telling you what they think about your product, your services, what they like what they don't like, it is such a powerful tool to be able to not only listen, but also respond to your customers. And so we are on a mission of taking our secret sauce, which is all about relationship building, and arming our customers on how do they do that on social media to drive impact for their businesses.

David Novak 12:41

And you say that people online want to engage with people, not necessarily brands. Give me an example of a brand that really does that? Well.

Irina Novoselsky 12:49

I'll give you a few examples. First, I think we do it really well. It's just fun. But the example I'll give you assessment workshop, they're great. They get into Elmos character. And they write social media based on an Elmo voice. What would Elmo do? How would Cookie Monster react, and you are just so addicted to following this because it's fun, it's engaging, they're building a relationship with you. And one of the things that we see is, most customers don't want to hear about a brand, just like most people in a dialogue in a relationship, if you're doing all the talking, they're not really interested. And so we ran this study where brands talk 70% about themselves, and only 30% about the customer. And people on social media, they want the reverse, they want to hear what are you doing for my problems? How can you help me they don't want to hear about you the brand or you the company? And so we talk about how do you give something nine times how do you give nine pieces of info that a customer values and then you take only once and for the really good brands, they do that they build authenticity, they build a relationship they engage you, and then they'll quote unquote, sell only once. And you're learning during those other nine times. When

David Novak 14:06

you think about social media, there are brands that use it to drive revenue, but most people think that, you know, just you get impressions, you know, but if you're going to drive revenue, what do you have to do that the other people don't? How do you turn these impressions into dollars.

Irina Novoselsky 14:24

And that is the part that we're most excited in the last 10 years about social media has just been about FOMO it's being on social media because our competitors are and you just have this fear of missing out, versus we think the next 10 years is all about driving revenue and impact your business and the three things to do different is one just like you would with any relationship listen. It starts with actually listening. What do your customers care about? We just actually bought this business talkwalker that allows us to help our customers really zone in and target and personalize the listening based on geography or topic or conversation. Session. And it's one of the best ways to build a relationship. Talk less, listen more. The second thing is talk about things that the customers care about. So it's nobody wants to get sold to, they want to learn, right, and we were talking about your book earlier that you're teaching leaders how to actively learn. It's the same thing on the customer side. Nobody wants to get sold that untold stats, tell us what we can do better. educate us, give us knowledge, that when we see brands, when they're educating, here's what you do to get a better price for your house, when you put on the market. Here's what you do to better manage your finances. By giving some of that education out, you're building a relationship because you're giving customers something. And then the third piece that we see that are really good customers that are building revenue from social media, are the ones that are vulnerable. The ones that just like any other relationship, if everything is great, and you're not scared of anything, it's really hard to build trust with someone you want to know what you mess up at. What are you bad at? There's no way you're great at everything. And so it's the same thing with a brand. How do you be vulnerable about the things that don't work? Or that do work? How do you ask for help? And social media is one of the easiest places to get fast feedback, hey, we launched this product, it looked like it didn't get a great response from you hear the three things, we think Why do you agree? Why do you think it didn't work? And so the brands that we see have a lot of success are vulnerable, and just ask, you

David Novak 16:26

know, vulnerability is a hot topic for leaders today. How easy is it for you to be vulnerable? And how do you show your vulnerability.

Irina Novoselsky 16:36

And it's an amazing thing to talk about. Because I started my career in finance. And being vulnerable in my mind was not something that was okay, that was weakness to me, in the sense of you just didn't do that. And it took later in my career. And it wasn't until I met other leaders, and I heard them talk about where they messed up their failings, and I thought, Oh, my God, I have all of those, we're allowed to talk about them. This is this is okay. And you just realize that you you're a human at home and the human, your work can't be two different things. And so who you bring to work has to be your most authentic self. And part of that is the things you do right and the things you do wrong. And I don't think we talk about vulnerability enough as leaders, and we don't make it okay. For me, anytime I do something wrong, which happens often I call it out. Or if I give wrong direction to my team, and they were right, I make sure I make a really big deal about that to say, hey, you were 100%. Right? In fact, you shouldn't have listened to me, you should have challenged me more. It's still your fault. But here's why I did it wrong. And it just calling it out to say mistakes are okay. And I think mistakes are healthy. Here's one of the things that for me, at least I see that teams that perform the best are those that have psychological safety. And vulnerability. And trust is one of the biggest ways to build that psychological safety. And it starts by showing I can mess up. What

David Novak 17:58

do you see is like two or three things that every leader should be doing or thinking about when it comes to social media is today.

Irina Novoselsky 18:05

One is posting and being on social media. And I say that because before joining HootSuite, I was an observer, and I would sometimes dabble in it. But I've made a commitment over the past year to really post two, three times a week. And the first post David was really hard. It felt so vulnerable. It felt like I was inviting people into my brain. And I was just not ready to share this personal aspect, whether it was a thought and opinion, it just it felt so strange. And your teams look to leaders to see what are they doing. And that's the behavior I want to emulate. And so just posting and being out there. The second thing is getting involved in others comments, one of the things that I got to see and witness as you were kind of moving through your podcast series is how you interview people and seeing the comments that were happening and getting involved in those conversations. And there's this magical thing that starts happening is that when you interact with somebody on their post, or in their comments a few times you start to develop a relationship with them, that you start to feel like you know them and it goes from this strange, I don't really know you to a few posts and interactions later. You're like, Okay, we've been friends for a while I now understand this, and you can see how relationships just get built. And then the third thing is just being open to learning. And then there's a lot of people who do it really well. And I had a team thankfully because I'm at HootSuite that basically said, Here's what you're doing wrong. Irina, and here's what we could do better. But just being open to trying new things.

David Novak 19:42

I'm pretty good at posting but I'm not very good at commenting, because it takes time. If social media is really important in today's world of marketing, you better take that time.

Irina Novoselsky 19:51

100% And it's interesting because the comments is actually what gets you your audience. So the posting is definitely helpful but the commenting in their algorithm is what gets you the most followers and engagement and gets you the most audience. On LinkedIn.

David Novak 20:07

You have this header image that I love, which that says ruffle some feathers. You know, how would you say you're ruffling feathers at HootSuite,

Irina Novoselsky 20:16

I would hope that we're ruffling them every day. I am a big believer of removing bureaucracy and process and hierarchy. And so we are flattening and enabling decision making, we are putting people in spots to be enabled and accountable and taking risks on people, I think one of the things that I have been the beneficiary of that I try so much to get forward and encourage our teams to do the same is people is the biggest investment that you can make. It can also feel like the biggest risk, where sometimes we wait so long to give someone a chance to just do the job. Okay, but if you know that their character, you know, their values, you know, their work ethic, and by the way you've worked with them. That, to me is the least risk that you can make as a business decision, go give them the job, go give them the chance, even if they've never done it. Just go watch what they can do. And you see magic happen when that person is given ownership and responsibility to go try something and fix the problem. And so I spend a lot of time encouraging people to raise their hand with problems they found. And then when they show up, it's a problem. I tasked them to go figure out how to solve it. Yeah, that's

David Novak 21:32

good. That's a good approach. You know, speaking of ruffling feathers, give us a specific example where you know, you ruffled some feathers, and it had a great outcome.

Irina Novoselsky 21:43

When I started about a year ago, I replaced 80% of my leadership team. And that is a pretty big change. That's ruffling some feathers, that is ruffling some feathers, and it was a good leadership team just wasn't the right team for what I wanted to do. And it is hard to change leaders out. It comes with a lot of risk. But you have to take what are you trying to do for the business, you're trying to keep in mind all these teams and employees that are kind of counting on you to make the right decisions. And it was a tough transitory time, I was probably pulling three or four different C suite hats at the same time, while I was trying to figure out how to hire some of the people that I didn't have. And it was arguably probably one of the best decisions that I made. And the thing I learned every time over and over again, is making change fast. And it is, I think the biggest sign of respect to people because everybody wants to be in the role, that they feel good that they can impact change that they can be where they can be successful. And the minute you see that that person doesn't align with the vision or doesn't have the expertise or cannot realize success in that role, the best and the most respectful thing you can do is given the opportunity to go find it somewhere else. And so taking this kind of band aid approach, ripping it off fast, allowed our hours at Hootsuite to kind of go through the change once instead of a little bit at a time over long periods of time.

David Novak 23:16

You know, that's a really hard thing to do. How did you learn how to be tough mind? You know, I do think there's a big difference between being tough and tough minded. That's a very tough minded decision that you had to make, you know, is that just in your DNA? Or is that something you've had to learn. And

Irina Novoselsky 23:34

I love how you said that, because it's tough minded, because the thing that I think is so important, and the two can exist is you can be kind, and you can be relationship focused, but you can still make the hard decisions that are necessary. And I think a lot of first time leaders, they think the kindness and making decisions and sometimes cannot sit mutually. And for me, I made mistakes, that helps. I waited too long sometimes to take leaders out. And I saw how it impacted a player's underneath how it impacted the teams underneath how it slowed down the results. And what gives me confidence is my overarching goal of we want to build a strong business, we want to enable all of our owls to have promotion opportunities and to grow their careers. And I have one job one job is to put the right leadership team in place, and then get out of the way. And so when I think about having tough conversations, I think about who am I letting down by not doing this? And so to me, it gets a little easier every time. This

David Novak 24:41

is actually your second CEO role. And your first was the CEO Career Builder. But, but I want to hear more about your journey to becoming a CEO and and I understand you were a full time student at NYU Stern School of Business while you also worked full time at Morgan Stanley. Only, what were some of those early skills that you developed in that role

Irina Novoselsky 25:05

time management. And you know, you get this like belief in yourself that you can do things that seem really difficult and hard. And you get comfortable being the dumbest person in the room. And there's a confidence that comes with that. So I would show up to these Morgan Stanley meetings. And again, I was trying to do full time, but my brain was occupied with student things and running around and doing everything I was doing. And so I was just learning at such a pace that any meeting I was in, I was always behind the on the conversation. I never fully understood what the goal of what we were doing, you're just constantly learning and you're not the smartest person in the room. And there's a freedom to it, to realize it is okay. And it's a skill set that I have kept with me that I am okay, asking the dumb questions, I am okay to be the dumbest person in the room, I'm okay to actively be learning. It's being comfortable in the uncomfortable. And it is an amazing thing to learn young and early in your career. And the second thing is, I've learned that naiveness is really powerful. I remember I worked on this project with the SMD. And I spent the whole weekend working on it. And on Monday, I delivered it to him and his meeting was Monday afternoon. So I showed up and I said, Great. Can I come to your meeting Monday afternoon? And he said, Yeah, sure. And I remember going back to the bullpen, which is what we called the area of analysts that were sitting in areas you can't ask an MD to go to a meeting. And I said, why not? I spent all this time working on the materials for years. But that's not the way it works. There's hierarchy, you can't just go and ask to go to a meeting. And I didn't know any better, David, because if I probably knew the rules, maybe I wouldn't have gone and asked, but it just seems so common sense to me at the time, like why wouldn't I go and hear how the stuff was being presented. And you just learned time and time again, that sometimes naiveness or ignorance, you know, within reason is a pretty healthy superpower?

David Novak 27:00

And what was the learning you got from the reaction from the Managing Director, as you were breaking that rule? His

Irina Novoselsky 27:07

reaction was, of course, you can come? Nobody's asked him, if an analyst previously can go to a meeting. And so there's, there's almost some of these unwritten rules. And I see this in leadership a lot where there's teams or leaders will assume something, because Oh, it's it's improper, or you can't do that at this level. Why not? If you need to call a customer, call a customer, who cares what your title is, or what you need to do. Or the other day I sat in on a social media manager. And I remember the team saying, Irina, there's no C suite here. You don't need to join. Great. Do you know what I'm gonna learn by listening to you talk to one of our day to day users, this is amazing. Oh, listen, I don't need to talk. And so it just sometimes just taking, you know, the importance of things a little out of it helps a lot. Tell

David Novak 27:56

me the story how you got into investment banking in the investment banking program in the first place.

Irina Novoselsky 28:01

One, I need financial security, David, and somebody told me, you make the most amount of money in investment banking, and if you're good at math, that's a good place to go. There's very little math, it's mostly addition and subtraction. But at the time, it paid the highest coming out of college. And so that was my goal. And nobody was hiring freshmen to the investment banking program. And I somehow got a back office job at Morgan Stanley in their controlling group, which was a really tough job for me. And I would spend the evenings emailing investment banking division MDs, and asking if they would get coffee with me. And this one MD, who is a little bit of a ruffle, the feathers kind of guy at Morgan Stanley, Harry Van Dyck, he was a rule breaker and a builder. And he responded, and he out of hundreds that I sent out, he responded and said, meet with my VP and I had coffee with the VP Jonas Nielsen. And he told me, why don't you go graduate, and we'll talk when you have a degree. And then six months later, he called me and said, Hey, we're actually doing a sophomore internship program you should apply. And if I didn't knock, and if this person didn't respond, and if didn't lead to the coffee, I would have never, ever had an opportunity to participate. And I

David Novak 29:19

love this quote of yours, which is stand near closed doors knock, yeah, great things happen when that

Irina Novoselsky 29:25

does happen. And you just it's a powerful concept of I'm not a big believer and no. And I see that with entrepreneurs and new time leaders. Just it's so easy to get mired in the No, you're either asking the wrong question or you're asking the wrong person and it's a state of mind. And so okay, there's a door go knock, someone will open something, it'll give you some opportunity and if you do nothing 100% will get nothing. As

David Novak 29:52

you are moving up in your career getting more and more experienced. Did you have a mentor that really took you under their wings and gave you the boost you need? Did yes

Irina Novoselsky 30:00

and no, I think the mentorship concept is so hard because I remember and when I read your book, I was so hungry to look for a mentor? Because how are you supposed to know the things that you just don't know? Where are you supposed to get it from and mentors is a tough relationship to build. And people that I've seen, do it poorly, just email out of the blue and ask you to be a mentor. And it's hard. And where I've had success is I've come across or networked with interesting people. And I just bring them into my world of problems. And so when I have a problem, I call them and I asked for advice. And after the second time, and the third time, and the fourth time, they're invested that they can go anywhere. And so you kind of just bring them in, and it becomes this very organic situation, where it's not necessarily a mentor, not. But the second part of it is, when I left finance and move to the operational side, I was very focused on which CEO I wanted to work with. And so I went on a nine month journey, where I probably interviewed over 100 CEOs, where, of course, they thought they were interviewing me. And I was looking for someone to take a chance, as I was changing careers, and really didn't know much about the operational world. But what I was looking is a person that I can learn from, who had similar values to me, who had a similar approach that I wanted to emulate. And I was fortunate enough to take my time to find somebody that I wanted to learn from that was aligned to what I was looking for. And so they didn't realize probably that they were being my mentor. But every day at 7am, I would set up meetings and say, hey, here are the questions I have, what are your responses? How would you answer this? And, you know, after a few weeks, they don't really get a choice in the matter.

David Novak 31:55

I think I know the answer this, but I'm going to ask it anyway. You know, what was it about you that helped you rise through the ranks and, and land a CEO roles. So early in your career, as I understand it, you were in your early 30s, I believe, right?

Irina Novoselsky 32:11

A lot of luck. I think being in the right place, and being willing to knock and just keep knocking. And then outside of that it's I am hungry to learn, I believe in solving problems. And one of the things that really was eye opening for me and moving from finance into the operational side is and you talk about this a lot, too, is building people with you building the teams with you. And finance, you can sometimes be a single person sport. When you move to the operation side, you really can't get done anything by yourself. Part of the magic of what you can do on the operation side is being able to inspire and motivate a team and take them along. And one of the biggest things that I learned is I want a team that's better than me smarter than me, can find whatever problems I can't think of challenge me say no to me. And so once your mentality shifts in that way, you're able to scale and get leverage and drive results in a completely different way. When you're empowering and enabling and motivating people around you to act instead of like a group of individuals like one powerful team,

David Novak 33:19

like you to share with me what you would see as the biggest leadership lesson that you learned the hard way. I think

Irina Novoselsky 33:28

a few come to mind. One of them is you think that as a leader people are supposed to adapt to your style. And the biggest one is my job is to adapt to my team's leadership style. And so I'm the one that needs to mold and to bend and figure out what drives them. What are their strengths? How do I take what makes me good, but bend it?

David Novak 33:54

How'd you learn that?

Irina Novoselsky 33:58

The hard way. I'll give you an example. Um, you know, I am a pusher I want more, I believe the impossible is nothing. And the way I communicate is the way that works for me. But one of the things I learned is there was exactly my team who needed praise. She needed me to just give her some positive feedback. Her love language was words of affirmation and recognition. And that wasn't the way that I'm motivated. You don't have to say a lot of positive things to me as long as I see people developing and growing. And she basically showed up and almost quit. And I asked her why because she was having such a great time. She was so well respected. And her response was, Well, I don't feel like I'm driving value for you. And it was such an eye opener of how could I have such a player think that she wasn't important to me? And it's because I never took the time to highlight to her in a language that she could understand why she It was, and I thought I was because the results were going up into the right. What else would I need to say it's working. But that's not what she needed. And I kept learning this lesson over and over that you get really good at managing a type of person that's really similar to yourself. And the skill set that I'm constantly learning is, how do I manage and lead people that are really different than me that aren't motivated the same way?

David Novak 35:30

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Irina in just a moment. You know, making bold connections is really important. It also takes a whole lot of courage. In my conversation with Maritza Montiel, the former Deputy CEO and vice chairman of Deloitte, you can learn from one of the most courageous leaders I know,

Maritza Montiel 35:49

don't be afraid to have a minority position on something. What's important is to be heard. And I think having the courage to take risks without risk and without failure, you'll never learn anything. I learned more from my failures and my successes. And the important thing is not that you fail. The important thing is how you come back up. And what how you apply yourself to the future from that failure. And I learned a lot more from failure than I did from anything else in life. So have the courage, have the courage to fail, you'll learn a lot.

David Novak 36:19

Learn how to tap into your own courage when you listen to my entire conversation with Maritza Episode 105, here on how leaders lead.

taking you back a little earlier than your Hootsuite days, you became the CEO of CareerBuilder. And what was the biggest challenge you faced as a first time CEO.

Irina Novoselsky 36:48

I didn't realize that at the time. But I learned as the second time is, when you're a first time CEO, you are really working hard on pleasing your board on pleasing your investors. And as a second time CEO, you realize that you're in there to get alignment on the strategy and a goal. And there's a subtle difference, but it's really important. And so the board is there to question and challenge and debate with you. But at the end of the day as the CEO, it's, it's your call to make, and you have to make it. And I think as a first time CEO, you sometimes differ on some of those big important decisions, and you don't realize that that is your job. And the second part of it. And I learned this also the hard way is you don't always know the answer coming in. And sometimes listening is more important than than the doing. And coming into Hootsuite, one of the things I was really conscious about is even if I saw a problem that I've seen a few times before, there's this easy bias to say, Oh, this is a circle, I know what goes in the circle. I know how to solve this. And every business, every industry, every company has its own little bit different flavor. And what I did differently here is I'd identified the strategy at identify where we focus, but I didn't come with this is how I think we should do it. And stead I put a team together and let them figure it out. And you know, I think you call this take the team with you or bring the people along, and you get better with it with experience. But that was probably two of the biggest differences.

David Novak 38:27

You know, it career builders, you learn all about career building and helping others do it, obviously. And what's something that you wish that leaders understood more about finding great talent, to

Irina Novoselsky 38:40

things, leaders look for pattern recognition that is really similar to their own background. And I think that can be really dangerous. Because, you know, then you're just gonna get a bunch of like minded people that have a similar perspective, a similar background to you. And what you want to do is what are the character traits? What are the qualities? What are the problems that people have solved, that you want to bring on? And changing that frame of reference, I think is really important. And then too, I see this a lot with leaders is they're worried about hiring people that are better than themselves. They're worried that if they bring in someone smarter, or better that they're going to come and take their job. And it is the most backwards thinking. Because where you're most at risk is when you don't have a strong team because you're not scalable, you also can't get promoted, because there's nobody to take your spot. And so you want to bring in people that are smarter that are challenging you because again, the power of a team is so much stronger than any individual. I

David Novak 39:46

understand that you're really really passionate about the fact that you should take time to really write great job descriptions for the jobs that you have, you know, which is something that I never did I have to tell you, I mean, maybe I had some other people where work on it. But I never really paid a whole hell of a lot of tension that what are the two dues and not to dues in that aspect of your leadership? It's

Irina Novoselsky 40:07

similar to solving a problem without knowing the goal that you're going after. And so, you know, I think Amazon got famous for this, that before they build products, they write out the press release of what they want the product to highlight, and what pain point it's going to solve. And similar for a job description, whether it's writing out the actual job description, at this point, you have aI doing it, but solving, what is it that you want this role to achieve? What success in this role? And then what is this type of person look like? And without putting it on paper, there is so and I've made this mistake so many times, I think it's very black and white in my brain and that I don't need to vocalize it. And then somebody else thinks it's a completely different idea. And then a person appears and like, how did this person get here? They don't match what I'm looking for at all? And how could they we never had the conversation to agree up front. And now you've wasted all these people's time interviewing, going through the process and the candidates time. And so, so much of writing upfront what success looks like, just makes the whole process more efficient and effective, and increases your chances of landing the person you want, which at the end of the day, it's all about building the right team.

David Novak 41:20

I understand that you've had a little bit of learning on the use of the word Rockstar in the job description.

Irina Novoselsky 41:26

Yes, we had technology that ran and one of the things we saw is job descriptions are very gender biased. And so when you put rock star, most of the applicants would end up being male. And many women would not associate with a rock star definition and wouldn't apply or replacing that with Ninja or, you know, strengthen certain skills would materially change, who and how the application process worked. And it just highlights the inherent biases that we all have and trying to get the most diverse pool of candidates that you can. Yeah,

David Novak 42:04

I want to move back to Hootsuite, which you're obviously very passionate about these days, you know, what brought you to Hootsuite and what really drove that career decision. And you you had to be good at making it after being a career builders.

Irina Novoselsky 42:17

It was two things. One, I wanted something that was at this catalystic change. I wanted something that was between communications and technology that was on this precipice of disruption. And social media is sitting there. Most businesses haven't figured out. And we did the study that 95% of businesses on social media, and yet almost 60% have no ability to understand the value that social media drives to their business. And if I were to tell you that somebody's 95% of the audience is on a tool that they don't know the value of that tool, you would think that is an exciting problem to go solve. And to me, I think it's one of the biggest challenges and opportunities because again, where else can you find 5 billion people that are checking in every single day for three hours a day, this is a problem that has to get solved and will get solved. And I am excited that I got to find a company that can help solve it. And I love the owl the brand just got me it is just a fun, cute owl. And you know, sometimes you just have to have a little fun in life.

David Novak 43:25

You know, you mentioned earlier that you have your own recognition award. Is it an owl? Or what is it?

Irina Novoselsky 43:31

Yeah. So one of the things that I got from you is used to do this rubber chicken. And in the remote world, one of the things that I've started doing is every week, we have a who check, where we check in with our apples for 15 minutes every week, it's global. We have the majority of company join. And we recognize people for either a deal that they signed a new product launch, you know, a customer success event that they did whatever it is every week, it's different. And we use this as 15 minutes of bringing a global workforce together to recognize our owls. And it was in a big part of hearing how important reward and recognition was in your leadership style.

David Novak 44:15

You know, you mentioned earlier that you just acquired this analytics firm called talkwalker. I love to get in to the head of how leaders make decisions and take us through this decision to make an acquisition which is always a game changer. It should be a game changer for your company. It takes a lot of guts to step up and make an acquisition. How did you make the decision? Take us through your thought process.

Irina Novoselsky 44:41

One it started with listening to our customers and so when we polled our customers one of the biggest things that we saw that was going to help drive this unlocking of value of social media relationships was all around listening. The listening analytics what are customers saying? The list Something allowed you to target on Customer Care. The listening allowed you to expand customers, the listening knew who were the right new audience to go after. And so while we had the same listening capabilities as everyone else in the industry, none of it was really next generation. None of it was leapfrogging and so we took a step back and looked at what companies are breaking the mold, which ones are using AI to do it differently, which ones are the best in the space. And so we narrowed down to talkwalker, which was the number one and we went and got it done. And part of the excitement is, you know, when you look at diligence for a deal, most deals don't work. So there's a lot of scariness that comes along with it. As you know, there were two things that really stood out one, we saw the product demo, and it was just like, my entire product and dev team were like kids in a toy store. They just were like, what, how is this possible. And the way that they do it is really interesting the way they listen, the technology behind it, and the AI and happy to share about it. And the second thing that really stood out, and this is the thing that with any relationship is the key. There has to be a chemistry, there has to be a fit. And you can have a great product, but the people just don't work, you have different values. It'll never work, the integration will just the culture of the company will just mutiny. And one of the things that was amazing to watch was not just the power of the product capabilities and the platform, it was that we had similar values. We had this no asshole policy, we had the customer comes first, when I asked the employees to talk work, or why they stayed for all these years, their number one answer is the relationships which was the number one answer. The hours that HootSuite gave me. And seeing the similarities in the culture was really what brought me into kind of finalizing it, the product is great. But making sure that the cultural alignment was critical.

Speaker 1 46:56

Do they work virtually as well. We're a mix. We have

Irina Novoselsky 46:59

offices all over the world. And so some offices they're coming in, some are virtual, I'd say where we're really good mix where there's people that come in several days a week, and then there's some that are not near any office. And

David Novak 47:12

when you think about the integration of talkwalker and HootSuite, who have you gone to to learn on how to really make that a success, or what are you going to do to make it work. I

Irina Novoselsky 47:24

have been part of lots of m&a just given my own background. And one of the things that I have seen that makes m&a really successful is really narrowing the focus, because you can integrate for years and years and years. And so starting with what is the biggest problem that you're solving for our customers, and really staying focused on that. And so for us, it's taking all these listening tools and analytics and bringing it to the fingertips of our customers. So you can go now it's already live, we're integrated. We worked on that before the deal announcement, which allowed us to get to market faster, but you can go in and you can type, you know how leaders lead. And you can see how many people are listening, what's the sentiment? What's the market share? Where are people talking about you the most. And so bringing some of those things that our customers care about the most into the tool fast is really important. And then to just keeping people focused on the execution of what it is that they need to do. Everyone had full time jobs before and it's easy to kind of get, you know, into the drama and the mix of I have to travel I have to do this I have to run around and just keeping people focused on really clear targets for success.

David Novak 48:33

You know, I really this has been so much fun, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? I'm ready. The three words that best describe you.

Irina Novoselsky 48:42

energizing, motivating, authentic.

David Novak 48:47

If you could be one person for a day besides yourself? Who would it be

Irina Novoselsky 48:51

an astronaut? I would love to see zero gravity.

David Novak 48:54

What's your biggest pet peeves?

Irina Novoselsky 48:56

The word no. Just getting told now.

David Novak 48:59

Who would play you in a movie?

Irina Novoselsky 49:01

Audrey Hepburn?

David Novak 49:03

What's your favorite social media platform?

Irina Novoselsky 49:06

Oh, how many get in trouble. You can't pick among children. But I really am into LinkedIn these days.

David Novak 49:13

What's the number of hours you spend on social media every week?

Irina Novoselsky 49:16

Every week? A lot? Probably 30 plus hours and that's probably being timed.

David Novak 49:24

What's something about Ukraine you'd only know if you're from there.

Irina Novoselsky 49:27

The pin Mianyang are delicious. Describe how

David Novak 49:31

you felt the first time you ate at Red Lobster.

Irina Novoselsky 49:34

I've never had lobster before. So it was amazing. And it was linguini Alfredo or whatever it was. I remember it to this day. I am so impressed. You found that

David Novak 49:46

what's your favorite fact about Abraham Lincoln?

Irina Novoselsky 49:50

That he was born on the same day as I was.

David Novak 49:54

If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

Irina Novoselsky 49:57

What you nueva cinco Lafayette Stop.

David Novak 50:02

What's something about you few people would know, I

Irina Novoselsky 50:05

dance almost every day and I put myself in professionally scary situations where I am terrified at least once a week.

David Novak 50:18

I got to ask you this when What's your go to order at Taco Bell?

Irina Novoselsky 50:21

Oh my gosh, the Cool Ranch Doritos tacos and they're always out of the Cool Ranch. So then I ended up getting the other one. I forgot the red one that I got the regular

David Novak 50:33

one. Yeah, Doritos. Locos Tacos there. Yeah. All right, fantastic. Now, you put yourself at risk, at least once a week, get out of your comfort zone. last big risk. Doing a deal.

Irina Novoselsky 50:46

Doing m&a is so scary. And especially in you know, when you know the stats of me it's like marriage, anything you go in, and you're taking a really big risk, and how do you make it work and you have a lot of people counting on you, because it's their job and their career and you want to make sure you do it right. You

David Novak 51:04

know, the highest performing companies always seem to have something bigger to focus on than just themselves. You know, I like to call it your your noble cause, what would be the noble cause for a Hootsuite that you're inviting your team into paint the picture of the compelling vision that you have? Yeah,

Irina Novoselsky 51:21

so one of the things that there was a Harvard study that followed people around for 70 plus years, it was one of the longest running studies. And they asked humans at every age, and then right before their end of life, what is most important, and there was one universal answer that kept coming up. And it was about relationships, that whether wherever you are in life, the thing that is most important is the relationships that you build. It's the quality, it's the length, it's how much you invest the vulnerability, the trust. And the mission we're on is building relationships with each other, helping our customers build relationships on social media, and the world is powered by relationships, it's the number one reason that I will stay at HootSuite, it's the number one reason customers by HootSuite, I'll give you a fun fact, 90% of our business comes to our front door, through references, referrals, all of that is based on relationships. And so we're here to help the world figure out how to build better relationships.

David Novak 52:28

I think that's a great noble cause. You know, about five weeks ago, my wife passed away, and I think of our 49 years together. And that relationship was it transcends everything. So if you can build a company that can help people build relationships, I think that's that's very, very powerful. Last question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to someone who wants to be a better leader,

Irina Novoselsky 52:54

can be relationships, I think it took me a while, especially coming from finance, to feel comfortable to be my authentic self. And then it's really easy to view things in a very transactional way. And you end up spending the majority of your time with the team that you work with, most of your awake hours are the people that you work with, you come back a little bit of a reason, right, all the energy is taken, you're tired and whatever's left, you're kind of figuring out in the evening. And so, you know, if you have the luxury of being able to do what you love, which I think is a luxury, not everybody gets that, then picking who you do it with is really important. And as leaders, you want people to think about you fondly. You want people to think about I learned with this person, I got pushed with this person, I built a relationship with this person. Because at the end of the day, you're spending all this time with someone you want to enjoy who you're doing with and it's a two way street, I want to learn from my team. I hope my team learns anything for me, but it's built relationships. First, among anything else.

David Novak 53:59

I read, I have to tell you, I just love this conversation when you meet a leader who can be so inspiring and knows what they're doing, and is focused on doing it the right way. It's always inspiring to be and you're obviously one of those leaders and I'm, I'm so honored. I got the chance to have this conversation with you, David,

Irina Novoselsky 54:18

I am so honored. I was telling you how I was just consuming your book years and years and years ago. And this is just a full circle moment for me because it is it's hard. People talk about their successes. And they never talk about the how or the lessons or the failures that they've done, or the very practical guide on how to become a leader. And I found your book did that. And it was so humble and no ego and you just lead with this human first approach. And it's something that just has really resonated with me throughout my career. And as I'm looking on continuously being a better leader myself

David Novak 54:59

Well, thank you, you just made my day

well, there's no doubt about it. Irina is a bold leader. She isn't afraid to defy conventions and ruffle some feathers. And I love how she pairs that boldness with the desire to build authentic relationships, and bring out the best in people. Let me tell you, it's a powerful combination. And I hope it's gotten your wheels turning about how you can bring that kind of relational boldness to your career. For starters, consider Irina is advised to stand near closed doors and knock. What door feels close to you in your career right now? What would it look like to knock on it? And what's keeping you from taking that bold step? Consider those questions this week. And hey, let's apply arenas insights and connect on social media. Reach out to me on exit David Novak, ogo, or on LinkedIn and tell me your big takeaway. So do you want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is that great leaders make bold connections. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Eric Church, CMA, Entertainer of the Year and 10 time Grammy nominee,

Eric Church 56:22

business music, it's all the same. It's all about getting to where you want to go. And for me, that has been clear throughout my entire career. If you don't have the vision, you can't expect anybody else to have it for you. So

David Novak 56:35

be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

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