[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":18,"_19":20,"_21":-5,"_22":23,"_24":25,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39,"_40":41,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_45":46,"_47":-5,"_48":49,"_50":51,"_52":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2534/treat-all-people-well","id",2534,"title","Treat all people well","subtitle","A leadership lesson from Arnold Palmer","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.400\nArnold treated the people who could not help him in any manner whatsoever.\n\n2\n00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:09.000\nHe treated them as well as the people who could help him.\n\n3\n00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:15.560\nYou know, the doorman, the locker room guy, the waitress, the waiter, server\n\n4\n00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:16.000\nnowadays.\n\n5\n00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:25.000\nBut Arnold was kind and he treated people the same regardless of who they were.\n\n6\n00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.000\nAnd I thought it was one of the greatest traits.\n\n7\n00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:32.000\nHe took his time and when he left you and he'd meet people for the first time,\n\n8\n00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:36.000\nyou always had a feeling that you knew him for a long time.\n\n9\n00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:42.000\nHe had that ability to put you at ease and he didn't want patronized.\n\n10\n00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.000\nYou know, Arnold was the first one to reach.\n\n11\n00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.000\nHe was the biggest tipper.\n\n12\n00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:50.000\nHe was just a special man.\n\n13\n00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.000\nYeah, you know, it's my buddy.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",834520,"end_time",884340,"keywords","talent management, kindness","slug","treat-all-people-well","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","2y6dHy5E6hGpK7K1bTLFMFU01NdGq7dOrEhQDakC4bmo","mux_asset_id","jM2mPsj64Zu35qhns6CBUhB6wO74uZ02zCk7YYIG5xmM","leader_id",102,"episode_id",250,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:53:45.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2534/treat-all-people-well","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":37,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_26":108,"_109":110,"_63":111,"_60":111,"_112":113,"_70":114,"_40":115,"_116":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_117":118,"_90":119,"_45":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_47":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_94":129,"_52":-5},"episode",{"_13":39,"_15":53,"_28":54,"_17":55,"_56":57,"_19":58,"_21":59,"_60":61,"_62":-5,"_63":61,"_64":-5,"_65":66,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_75":-5,"_36":37,"_40":76,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":-5,"_90":-5,"_47":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_52":-5},"og_image_media","Trust Others With Responsibility","trust-others-with-responsibility","Learn how to build a thriving team by giving others responsibility and then supporting and serving them well. Plus, the small but powerful trait that speaks volumes about someone’s character.","summary","

Today’s guest is John “Spider” Miller, a legendary amateur golfer who captained the US team in the 2015 and 2017 Walker Cup.

If you have never seen the Walker Cup, it’s a biennial competition where leading amateur golfers of the US go head to head with the best amateurs from Great Britain and Ireland.

In both his golf game and his career as a beer distributor, Spider is living proof of the power of responsibility. When we diligently focus on our own duties – and then trust others with theirs – we can accomplish amazing things.

Listen to this episode for timeless leadership wisdom, plus some great stories about golf legends like Fuzzy Zoeller, Arnold Palmer, and more.

You’ll also learn:

The #1 mindset you need to succeed as a franchisee
What to look for when you hire if you want to build a trustworthy team
The small but powerful trait that speaks volumes about someone’s character
Why giving your team responsibility is one of your key roles as a leader

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.920\nWelcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:08.580\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.580 --> 00:00:10.480\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:13.640\nI break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:14.200\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.200 --> 00:00:18.040\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.040 --> 00:00:20.040\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:20.040 --> 00:00:21.880\nWell, I'm really excited.\n\n9\n00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:26.280\nThe 48th Walker Cup match is happening this weekend at the heralded Seminole\n\n10\n00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:26.880\nGolf Club\n\n11\n00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:29.120\nin Juneau Beach, Florida.\n\n12\n00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:33.120\nThat's when leading amateur golfers of the US go head to head with the best am\n\n13\n00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:33.600\nateurs\n\n14\n00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:35.800\nfrom Great Britain and Ireland.\n\n15\n00:00:35.800 --> 00:00:39.340\nAnd let me tell you something, it's always fun to watch.\n\n16\n00:00:39.340 --> 00:00:44.240\nSo it's a perfect time to talk to John Spider Miller, who captained the US team\n\n17\n00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:45.880\nin 2015\n\n18\n00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:48.560\nand again in 2017.\n\n19\n00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:52.260\nHe's a renowned amateur golfer in his own right and a successful beer\n\n20\n00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:53.360\ndistributor as\n\n21\n00:00:53.360 --> 00:00:54.360\nwell.\n\n22\n00:00:54.360 --> 00:01:00.240\nBetter yet, he's living proof of just how powerful responsibility is.\n\n23\n00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:04.840\nWhen we work hard on our own responsibilities and then trust others with theirs\n\n24\n00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:05.280\n, we can\n\n25\n00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:07.920\naccomplish amazing things.\n\n26\n00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:12.480\nThis is timeless leadership wisdom and I just can't wait for you to hear it.\n\n27\n00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:17.460\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, the Spider\n\n28\n00:01:17.460 --> 00:01:18.240\nMiller.\n\n29\n00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:28.870\nYou know, you're actually John Miller, Spider, but tell me, I always like to\n\n30\n00:01:28.870 --> 00:01:30.200\nget the upbringing\n\n31\n00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:31.200\nof people.\n\n32\n00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.760\nHow did you get that name of Spider?\n\n33\n00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:38.680\nI'm one of 11 children and Catholic family, of course.\n\n34\n00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:45.200\nI'm the middle child and my father was a small town business man.\n\n35\n00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:53.190\nHe had a hardware store, a partial ownership and a tire store, a laundromat and\n\n36\n00:01:53.190 --> 00:01:53.920\nhe had a\n\n37\n00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:56.440\npartial ownership and a beer distribution.\n\n38\n00:01:56.440 --> 00:02:03.520\nSo dad was, I guess I get it from him and he worked hard and then having all us\n\n39\n00:02:03.520 --> 00:02:04.240\nkids,\n\n40\n00:02:04.240 --> 00:02:09.550\napparently I was climbing on the shelves in his hardware store one day when I\n\n41\n00:02:09.550 --> 00:02:10.240\nwas four\n\n42\n00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:15.000\nor five years old and the nickname Spider was given to me and it stuck.\n\n43\n00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.320\nDid you have a lot of jobs when you were coming up as a kid?\n\n44\n00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:19.320\nI did.\n\n45\n00:02:19.320 --> 00:02:24.790\nYou know, my dad was partners and a number of the ventures with his brother and\n\n46\n00:02:24.790 --> 00:02:25.280\nhe had\n\n47\n00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.600\nthree boys.\n\n48\n00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:33.290\nSo in high school, I got up every morning and mop the floors in our laundromat\n\n49\n00:02:33.290 --> 00:02:33.680\nalong with\n\n50\n00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:37.280\nmy cousin and we each got a dollar a day.\n\n51\n00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.760\nNow tell me, Spider, what did you learn from jobs like that?\n\n52\n00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:45.300\nYou know, I guess for me, I think the important thing and I tell people that\n\n53\n00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:46.240\nare raising their\n\n54\n00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:47.240\nfamily.\n\n55\n00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:53.440\nIf I learn one thing and raising our five children is the importance of work.\n\n56\n00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:59.460\nAnd I think it's good that young people have the responsibility to be at a\n\n57\n00:02:59.460 --> 00:03:00.760\ncertain place\n\n58\n00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:05.890\non time and perform a certain task and I always believe there's dignity in work\n\n59\n00:03:05.890 --> 00:03:07.200\nand it doesn't\n\n60\n00:03:07.200 --> 00:03:13.410\nmatter what the chore, what the task, there's just dignity and working and if I\n\n61\n00:03:13.410 --> 00:03:14.360\ncould pass\n\n62\n00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:16.840\nanything on to my kids, it would be that.\n\n63\n00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:20.700\nYou know, did you have any mentors that really helped you along the way when\n\n64\n00:03:20.700 --> 00:03:21.160\nyou're?\n\n65\n00:03:21.160 --> 00:03:27.560\nYes, I had, I always sought the advice of the older people I knew in my life.\n\n66\n00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:34.450\nMy dad was one and I had another friend, Elliot Phillips, who's just across the\n\n67\n00:03:34.450 --> 00:03:35.280\nriver here\n\n68\n00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:40.160\nin New Albany was a great mentor to me in my business career.\n\n69\n00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:43.640\nWhere did you get, where do you first get your passion for golf?\n\n70\n00:03:43.640 --> 00:03:49.010\nWell I think I started playing when I was six years old and I catted through\n\n71\n00:03:49.010 --> 00:03:50.240\ngrade school\n\n72\n00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:55.670\nand we were a nine hole course in our little town and I wasn't big enough to\n\n73\n00:03:55.670 --> 00:03:56.520\ncarry the\n\n74\n00:03:56.520 --> 00:04:01.540\nbags for the men because they had those big old leather bags and generally they\n\n75\n00:04:01.540 --> 00:04:01.920\nwere\n\n76\n00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:09.300\nstuffed with golf balls and a couple pints of whiskey but I catted for the\n\n77\n00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:09.840\nwomen and\n\n78\n00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:17.600\nI got a dollar a nine and she'd occasionally give me a 10 cent tip and then I\n\n79\n00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:18.920\nwould count\n\n80\n00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.400\nthe cut cuss words.\n\n81\n00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:26.360\nHer name was Miss Call, C-U-L-L and I kept track of her cuss words and she'd\n\n82\n00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:27.360\ngive another\n\n83\n00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:32.120\ndime for each cuss word to the church.\n\n84\n00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:36.760\nSo you're learning golf and doing good at the same time, that's great.\n\n85\n00:04:36.760 --> 00:04:38.480\nHow did you get involved in the beer business?\n\n86\n00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:43.360\nWell in the beer business my dad owned, he was a partial owner and a small\n\n87\n00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:43.840\ndistributor\n\n88\n00:04:43.840 --> 00:04:49.590\nship and they had paps and they had one employee and they had an offer, a cash\n\n89\n00:04:49.590 --> 00:04:50.560\noffer for it\n\n90\n00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:55.990\nand I was home from college and I said, \"Pop, you keep the books on that, don't\n\n91\n00:04:55.990 --> 00:04:56.680\nyou?\"\n\n92\n00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:59.560\nThey said, \"Yeah, I had them.\"\n\n93\n00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:04.210\nI poured over the books and I knew the purchase price that they were offered\n\n94\n00:05:04.210 --> 00:05:04.600\nand they were\n\n95\n00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:11.800\ngoing to accept and I said, \"I can give you 25% more but you have to carry me.\n\n96\n00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:16.440\nYou have to carry it on contract and I think I can finance it over eight years.\n\n97\n00:05:16.440 --> 00:05:21.240\nI can give you 8% interest and I'll advertise the principal.\"\n\n98\n00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.960\nHe said, \"You have to go talk to the other guys.\"\n\n99\n00:05:23.960 --> 00:05:30.480\nI went around and looked up the other guys and they agreed and I made every\n\n100\n00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:31.040\npayment on\n\n101\n00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.280\ntime and that's how I got started.\n\n102\n00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:37.000\nNow you did that straight out of school?\n\n103\n00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:40.480\nI worked how I got through college.\n\n104\n00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:47.080\nI went for two years then I worked for two years and then when I went back to\n\n105\n00:05:47.080 --> 00:05:47.800\nschool\n\n106\n00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.200\nI worked for the Golf Pro but at that time I could probably do about anything\n\n107\n00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:53.880\non a golf\n\n108\n00:05:53.880 --> 00:05:56.360\ncourse so he hired me.\n\n109\n00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:00.550\nI could fix the golf carts and so I worked full time for him and I finished\n\n110\n00:06:00.550 --> 00:06:01.360\nschool part\n\n111\n00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:02.360\ntime.\n\n112\n00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:04.960\nBut didn't you were able to really put that business proposition and got you\n\n113\n00:06:04.960 --> 00:06:05.400\nstarted?\n\n114\n00:06:05.400 --> 00:06:10.120\nIt did and honestly that's where I was exposed to better players.\n\n115\n00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:16.440\nWe had a good golf team and I played with all of them when I could.\n\n116\n00:06:16.440 --> 00:06:19.520\nI just sort of maintained my passion.\n\n117\n00:06:19.520 --> 00:06:23.880\nI ran the driving range so you can imagine how I did it.\n\n118\n00:06:23.880 --> 00:06:25.240\nI didn't sit in the shed.\n\n119\n00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.200\nI stood out there and pounded balls.\n\n120\n00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:29.840\nSomebody came and wanted to rent a bucket.\n\n121\n00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:33.050\nI followed him right inside, took their money, gave him a basket and then I\n\n122\n00:06:33.050 --> 00:06:33.840\nfollowed him right\n\n123\n00:06:33.840 --> 00:06:37.240\nout the door and started hitting balls again.\n\n124\n00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:41.480\nNow you started out in your business with PAPs.\n\n125\n00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.080\nWhat brands do you have now?\n\n126\n00:06:43.080 --> 00:06:45.240\nPrimarily I'm in Heiser Bush.\n\n127\n00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:53.380\nI have a PAPs of course and we have Heineken and we have Constellation Brands\n\n128\n00:06:53.380 --> 00:06:54.200\nwhich are\n\n129\n00:06:54.200 --> 00:06:56.520\nthe Modell and the Corona Brands.\n\n130\n00:06:56.520 --> 00:06:58.000\nThat's a number of the craps.\n\n131\n00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:03.760\nIn fact basically you're a franchise or and you bottle the beer and then sell\n\n132\n00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:04.360\nit in that\n\n133\n00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:05.800\nparticular area.\n\n134\n00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:12.510\nYeah, where we differ from the soda side is that it comes to us from the Burial\n\n135\n00:07:12.510 --> 00:07:13.760\npackage.\n\n136\n00:07:13.760 --> 00:07:17.880\nBut essentially similar distribution scheme.\n\n137\n00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:19.960\nAnd then we sell the license accounts.\n\n138\n00:07:19.960 --> 00:07:24.240\nWhat do you think makes a good franchise or?\n\n139\n00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:28.520\nWhat do you expect as an entrepreneur from an Heiser Bush?\n\n140\n00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:33.840\nWell, we represent the brand in the community and that's first and foremost.\n\n141\n00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:40.970\nSo if in our market they think of a brand be it Budweiser or Corona they think\n\n142\n00:07:40.970 --> 00:07:41.600\nof us.\n\n143\n00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:46.540\nSo we represent that brand and I think that's very important is how we conduct\n\n144\n00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:47.440\nbusiness,\n\n145\n00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:51.680\nhow we carry ourselves, our trucks, the politeness of our people.\n\n146\n00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:56.750\nEach and every person that touches a customer represents that brand and\n\n147\n00:07:56.750 --> 00:07:58.080\nrepresents all of\n\n148\n00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:00.120\nus and it's a collective effort.\n\n149\n00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:06.220\nAnd I think probably that's the most important thing that I am the face of a\n\n150\n00:08:06.220 --> 00:08:07.640\nvery big company\n\n151\n00:08:07.640 --> 00:08:09.640\nin a small area.\n\n152\n00:08:09.640 --> 00:08:13.080\nAnd how would you interact with like an Anheiser Bush?\n\n153\n00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:17.800\nWell, I'm a little long in the tooth right now.\n\n154\n00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:25.360\nMy oldest son is running the company but to me I think they're just like we are\n\n155\n00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:25.800\n.\n\n156\n00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:27.280\nWe share a common goal.\n\n157\n00:08:27.280 --> 00:08:28.800\nWe want to increase our sales.\n\n158\n00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:31.600\nWe want to maximize profits.\n\n159\n00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:36.240\nAnd I think it's just the same way I treat my customers.\n\n160\n00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:41.100\nI don't do anything different for them because they hold a stick over me so to\n\n161\n00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:41.840\nspeak.\n\n162\n00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.600\nBut I do own my own business.\n\n163\n00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:47.530\nBut you know now you've got your family involved, your son basically runs the\n\n164\n00:08:47.530 --> 00:08:48.320\nbusiness.\n\n165\n00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:53.360\nWhat advice can you give people on how to best operate as a family company?\n\n166\n00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:58.140\nWell I think I'm feeling my way through that but I think it's important that\n\n167\n00:08:58.140 --> 00:08:58.840\nthe people\n\n168\n00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:02.880\nwho come into the business have worked outside the business.\n\n169\n00:09:02.880 --> 00:09:06.770\nAnd as one of the things I learned from some of the older guys that I spoke\n\n170\n00:09:06.770 --> 00:09:07.520\nwith who had\n\n171\n00:09:07.520 --> 00:09:15.570\nfamily succession is that their younger family members had experience outside\n\n172\n00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:17.160\nof just working\n\n173\n00:09:17.160 --> 00:09:18.160\nfor them.\n\n174\n00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:22.640\nSo they had to answer the bell for someone else who was unrelated.\n\n175\n00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:27.660\nAnd then after two years and that was kind of a threshold I wanted at least two\n\n176\n00:09:27.660 --> 00:09:28.160\nyears\n\n177\n00:09:28.160 --> 00:09:30.000\noutside of the family business.\n\n178\n00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:33.660\nYou wanted your son to get outside, get different experience and come into the\n\n179\n00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:34.320\nbusiness.\n\n180\n00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:40.680\nAnd then you got to deal with your son and he's got to deal with the father.\n\n181\n00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:45.590\nA lot of people say that's a much more difficult relationship and a typical\n\n182\n00:09:45.590 --> 00:09:47.240\nboss subordinate.\n\n183\n00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:48.880\nHow do you feel about that?\n\n184\n00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:51.120\nWell it hasn't been difficult for me.\n\n185\n00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:58.840\nWhen I started in the business let's say I was 29 I think 28 or 9.\n\n186\n00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:05.270\nAnd I would go to meetings and there would be the father and the sons and\n\n187\n00:10:05.270 --> 00:10:06.760\ntypically the\n\n188\n00:10:06.760 --> 00:10:11.210\nfather would do all the talking and the sons who were my age and sometimes\n\n189\n00:10:11.210 --> 00:10:12.080\nolder than me\n\n190\n00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:14.720\nwould listen.\n\n191\n00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:19.760\nAnd I used to thank to myself you know when my time comes I'm not going to be\n\n192\n00:10:19.760 --> 00:10:20.040\nthe guy\n\n193\n00:10:20.040 --> 00:10:23.280\nin the room espousing what I believe.\n\n194\n00:10:23.280 --> 00:10:29.150\nI'm going to let my if it's my kids or if it's an unrelated party I'm going to\n\n195\n00:10:29.150 --> 00:10:29.800\nlet them\n\n196\n00:10:29.800 --> 00:10:31.840\nrun the show.\n\n197\n00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:37.990\nI'm not going to be in there doing all the yapping for the sake of just doing\n\n198\n00:10:37.990 --> 00:10:38.600\nit.\n\n199\n00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:39.760\nSo I've done that.\n\n200\n00:10:39.760 --> 00:10:45.120\nJoe has complete control and I'm in there to support him.\n\n201\n00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:48.680\nI tell him Joe I'm here to support you in any manner I can.\n\n202\n00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:55.200\nYou tell me how I can add the most value to our organization and what form of\n\n203\n00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.040\nsupport\n\n204\n00:10:56.040 --> 00:10:57.120\ndo you want from me.\n\n205\n00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:58.120\nThat's great.\n\n206\n00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.320\nSo you've really turned the range over him and take direction for him in terms\n\n207\n00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:01.640\nof what\n\n208\n00:11:01.640 --> 00:11:02.640\nhe needs.\n\n209\n00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:06.040\nThat's a sign of the always a sign of great leadership.\n\n210\n00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:08.440\nWhat do you look for Spider when you hire people?\n\n211\n00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:12.520\nI guess I'm driven a little bit the way I view golf.\n\n212\n00:11:12.520 --> 00:11:14.080\nI do it by personality.\n\n213\n00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:18.860\nI always say that I can teach you to do the job but the difficult part is if\n\n214\n00:11:18.860 --> 00:11:19.640\nyou don't\n\n215\n00:11:19.640 --> 00:11:27.240\nhave that desire that passion and the basic components it's difficult.\n\n216\n00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.160\nI can't change the way you think.\n\n217\n00:11:29.160 --> 00:11:34.690\nSo I try and hire someone who has that already and lately and then we can train\n\n218\n00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:35.520\nthem to do\n\n219\n00:11:35.520 --> 00:11:36.520\nthe job.\n\n220\n00:11:36.520 --> 00:11:41.640\nSo I believe that and that's where I go back to I think it's important that\n\n221\n00:11:41.640 --> 00:11:42.720\nyoung people\n\n222\n00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.440\nhave a job when they're young.\n\n223\n00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:49.790\nI think it trains them for the basics and when they show that desire to work\n\n224\n00:11:49.790 --> 00:11:50.600\nthat's what\n\n225\n00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.440\nI look for.\n\n226\n00:11:53.440 --> 00:12:02.040\nLet's talk about your golf career which has been very celebrated.\n\n227\n00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:10.620\nYour hell of a golfer you rent one the mid amateur in '96 and '98 which is just\n\n228\n00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:11.400\nan amazing\n\n229\n00:12:11.400 --> 00:12:18.640\naccomplishment which allowed you to play in the masters of those two years.\n\n230\n00:12:18.640 --> 00:12:24.160\nAs you developed as a golfer and you end up playing at the masters.\n\n231\n00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:28.150\nWhat was that like when you go from being an amateur now you're out there with\n\n232\n00:12:28.150 --> 00:12:28.600\nall these\n\n233\n00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:29.600\npros.\n\n234\n00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:30.600\nWhat was that like?\n\n235\n00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:37.000\nWell, there's an old saying when we were kids if you wanted to see time go fast\n\n236\n00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:37.440\ntake\n\n237\n00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.200\nout a big mortgage because the first of the month comes around.\n\n238\n00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:46.960\nPretty quick but I can still remember having one and I was up and I live in\n\n239\n00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:48.080\nIndiana and\n\n240\n00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:52.040\nit was cold and the first masters commercial would come on.\n\n241\n00:12:52.040 --> 00:12:59.960\nThey would start those about maybe February or maybe March they run the teasers\n\n242\n00:12:59.960 --> 00:13:00.880\nyou know\n\n243\n00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:05.780\na tournament like no other and I remember saying and thinking oh my god I'm\n\n244\n00:13:05.780 --> 00:13:06.160\ngoing to\n\n245\n00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:10.720\nplay in that and I hadn't played at all.\n\n246\n00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:15.960\nIt was great I had a great experience I was very fortunate to be friends with F\n\n247\n00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.080\nuzzy Zeller.\n\n248\n00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:22.080\nFuzz took me under his wing ranked our practice rounds and we played with\n\n249\n00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:23.160\nArnold that's where\n\n250\n00:13:23.160 --> 00:13:30.370\nI first met Arnold and got to play with Jack and Tom Watson guys that you know\n\n251\n00:13:30.370 --> 00:13:31.320\nI thought\n\n252\n00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:37.760\na lot of his golfers and so thanks to him it was very easy for me.\n\n253\n00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:42.680\nYou did become very good friends with the great late Arnold Palmer.\n\n254\n00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:47.020\nWhat did you learn from him that you think everybody could really apply his\n\n255\n00:13:47.020 --> 00:13:47.800\nprinciples\n\n256\n00:13:47.800 --> 00:13:48.800\nin their life?\n\n257\n00:13:48.800 --> 00:13:55.000\nI think what I learned most from Arnold is that you treat people the same.\n\n258\n00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.760\nArnold treated the people who could not help him in any manner whatsoever.\n\n259\n00:13:59.760 --> 00:14:03.720\nHe treated them as well as the people who could help him.\n\n260\n00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:09.780\nYou know the door man, locker room guy, the waitress, the waiter, server\n\n261\n00:14:09.780 --> 00:14:10.960\nnowadays but\n\n262\n00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:18.660\nArnold was kind and he treated people the same regardless of who they were and\n\n263\n00:14:18.660 --> 00:14:19.720\nI thought\n\n264\n00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:21.960\nit was one of the greatest traits.\n\n265\n00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.990\nHe took his time and when he left you and he'd meet people for the first time\n\n266\n00:14:25.990 --> 00:14:26.680\nyou always\n\n267\n00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:29.960\nhad a feeling that you knew him for a long time.\n\n268\n00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:36.760\nHe had that ability to put you at ease and he didn't want patronized.\n\n269\n00:14:36.760 --> 00:14:39.320\nArnold was the first one to reach.\n\n270\n00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:41.000\nHe was the biggest tipper.\n\n271\n00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:44.800\nHe was just a special man.\n\n272\n00:14:44.800 --> 00:14:46.200\nYou know it's my buddy.\n\n273\n00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:47.200\nYeah absolutely.\n\n274\n00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:52.690\nYou know you both also besides golf which you both loved, you both loved to fly\n\n275\n00:14:52.690 --> 00:14:53.080\nand you\n\n276\n00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:54.920\nwas a pilot and you're a pilot.\n\n277\n00:14:54.920 --> 00:14:58.600\nYou know what made you want to learn to fly and when did you do that?\n\n278\n00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.040\nWell I always wanted to fly as a kid.\n\n279\n00:15:01.040 --> 00:15:05.490\nMy brother and I are both mechanically, I guess you'd call us motor heads when\n\n280\n00:15:05.490 --> 00:15:05.880\nwe were\n\n281\n00:15:05.880 --> 00:15:13.580\nyoung and he started taking flying lessons so he calls me and by this time I've\n\n282\n00:15:13.580 --> 00:15:14.160\nbeen\n\n283\n00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:19.230\ntalking to Arnold a lot and he said hey I'm going to send this guy over in an\n\n284\n00:15:19.230 --> 00:15:20.000\nairplane\n\n285\n00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.240\nand you got to go up with it.\n\n286\n00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.560\nSo he came over and to me honestly it was like a drug.\n\n287\n00:15:25.560 --> 00:15:26.560\nI had to know.\n\n288\n00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:27.840\nI had to figure it out.\n\n289\n00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:30.200\nI had to do this.\n\n290\n00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.280\nSo I started working at it like I did everything.\n\n291\n00:15:33.280 --> 00:15:38.450\nI'd get up every morning, first lesson, daylight and they called me the touch\n\n292\n00:15:38.450 --> 00:15:39.680\nand go kid because\n\n293\n00:15:39.680 --> 00:15:41.280\nI knew it was all about landing.\n\n294\n00:15:41.280 --> 00:15:43.280\nThere's no sense of worrying about the other part.\n\n295\n00:15:43.280 --> 00:15:48.870\nIf you can't land, if you can't get it on the ground, you're just flying to the\n\n296\n00:15:48.870 --> 00:15:49.400\nscene\n\n297\n00:15:49.400 --> 00:15:50.600\nof the accident.\n\n298\n00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:56.760\nSo I focused on landing and that was what I do.\n\n299\n00:15:56.760 --> 00:16:01.980\nI'd go up and then I had an instructor when it was really windy and lousy\n\n300\n00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:03.160\nweather, I'd\n\n301\n00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:09.330\ncall him and I knew the other students would cancel and him and I would go up\n\n302\n00:16:09.330 --> 00:16:10.280\nand do cross\n\n303\n00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:13.040\nwind landings in the worst conditions we could find.\n\n304\n00:16:13.040 --> 00:16:16.600\nWell it takes a lot of attention and detail to be a pilot.\n\n305\n00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:21.000\nDid you apply that same kind of attention and detail into your business?\n\n306\n00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.000\nI did.\n\n307\n00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:29.620\nYeah I think what a pilot is kind of equal parts of academia and the other part\n\n308\n00:16:29.620 --> 00:16:30.440\nis just\n\n309\n00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.040\nmechanical aptitude.\n\n310\n00:16:32.040 --> 00:16:37.270\nThe guy who some of the best pilots or guys who could run a bulldozer or who\n\n311\n00:16:37.270 --> 00:16:38.120\ncould run\n\n312\n00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:44.140\nany piece of equipment and the other side of it is you have to know the\n\n313\n00:16:44.140 --> 00:16:45.440\nairplane, the\n\n314\n00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:50.360\nintricacies and you have to know the navigational age and how to do that and\n\n315\n00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:51.640\nthat's the academic\n\n316\n00:16:51.640 --> 00:16:52.640\npart.\n\n317\n00:16:52.640 --> 00:16:54.720\nWell let's get back to golf a little bit.\n\n318\n00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:58.270\nYou were the mid-am champ, you played the Masters twice, then you played on the\n\n319\n00:16:58.270 --> 00:16:58.720\nWalker\n\n320\n00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:05.730\nCup team itself and then you got the honor in 2015 to become the Walker Cup\n\n321\n00:17:05.730 --> 00:17:06.640\ncaptain.\n\n322\n00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.610\nJust for our listeners tell everybody about the Walker Cup and how it's\n\n323\n00:17:10.610 --> 00:17:11.520\norganized and\n\n324\n00:17:11.520 --> 00:17:12.520\nwhat it really means.\n\n325\n00:17:12.520 --> 00:17:17.780\nWell the Walker Cup is a competition between the players from the United States\n\n326\n00:17:17.780 --> 00:17:18.240\nversus\n\n327\n00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.820\nthe Great Britain and Ireland team that we call them the GB and I and the\n\n328\n00:17:22.820 --> 00:17:23.560\ncompetition\n\n329\n00:17:23.560 --> 00:17:31.890\nbegan in 1921 and formerly and the original invitation was extended to players\n\n330\n00:17:31.890 --> 00:17:32.520\nof all\n\n331\n00:17:32.520 --> 00:17:38.780\ncountries but it was the brainchild of George Herbert Walker who's maternal\n\n332\n00:17:38.780 --> 00:17:40.880\ngreat grandfather,\n\n333\n00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:47.310\nPresident Bush 41 and the great great President Bush 43 but due to the economic\n\n334\n00:17:47.310 --> 00:17:48.160\ntimes and\n\n335\n00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:56.400\nso forth and so on only the British, only the Brits and the Irish showed up.\n\n336\n00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:02.600\nSo it was played formally in 1922 at the National Golf Links and that's who\n\n337\n00:18:02.600 --> 00:18:03.960\nshowed up, the\n\n338\n00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:11.870\npress dubbed it the Walker Cup because George Herbert Walker donated the trophy\n\n339\n00:18:11.870 --> 00:18:12.920\nand now you\n\n340\n00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:19.040\ngo to this point there was a period during the war from 40 to 46 in which it\n\n341\n00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:21.000\nwas not played\n\n342\n00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:27.060\nbut now we play every two years of biennial competition and it's between our\n\n343\n00:18:27.060 --> 00:18:27.520\nplayers,\n\n344\n00:18:27.520 --> 00:18:33.450\nthe best 10 players we can find in the United States versus the best 10 players\n\n345\n00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:34.000\nthat they\n\n346\n00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.240\nhave in Great Britain and Ireland.\n\n347\n00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:44.050\nSo in 2015 you go to Royal Lithium in England and you actually lost what was it\n\n348\n00:18:44.050 --> 00:18:44.720\nlike to\n\n349\n00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:50.200\nbe a captain of the team and how did you cope with that?\n\n350\n00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:51.200\nWhat was it?\n\n351\n00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:52.960\nWhat were the feelings and then how did you cope with it?\n\n352\n00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:00.080\nWell we came in like always with high expectations and we were beaten soundly.\n\n353\n00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:02.880\nI take my hat off to our competition.\n\n354\n00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:11.900\nIt was our guys tried hard but we were beaten and as you know in golf it's up\n\n355\n00:19:11.900 --> 00:19:13.240\nto you and\n\n356\n00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:18.290\nI did some things that I learned a lot from the first team that I applied to\n\n357\n00:19:18.290 --> 00:19:19.160\nthe second\n\n358\n00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:25.740\nteam which helped us a lot but it wasn't much fun at the end of the day because\n\n359\n00:19:25.740 --> 00:19:26.480\nyou're\n\n360\n00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:34.050\nknown as either known as the 2015 Walker Cup Team or the winning 2015 Walker\n\n361\n00:19:34.050 --> 00:19:35.840\nCup Team\n\n362\n00:19:35.840 --> 00:19:40.740\nand I put that to our team in 2017 is up to them is how they want to be\n\n363\n00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:42.080\nreferred to and\n\n364\n00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:48.520\nfortunately were referred to as the winning 2017 Walker Cup Team.\n\n365\n00:19:48.520 --> 00:19:52.520\nWhat was that feeling like Spider to get the monkey off your back so to speak\n\n366\n00:19:52.520 --> 00:19:53.240\nas a captain\n\n367\n00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.080\nyou lose the first one and now you know.\n\n368\n00:19:57.080 --> 00:20:03.050\nWell I had a great team first of all and I did learn some things I actually\n\n369\n00:20:03.050 --> 00:20:03.360\nbelieve\n\n370\n00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:08.330\nit or not I had some good insight from our buddy our mutual friend Jimmy Dunn\n\n371\n00:20:08.330 --> 00:20:08.720\non his\n\n372\n00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:16.620\nthoughts of Forcums play about why is it that the Brits seem to dominate us in\n\n373\n00:20:16.620 --> 00:20:17.600\nForcums\n\n374\n00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:23.180\nwhich is an alternate shot and they don't necessarily in singles when we go\n\n375\n00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:23.760\nhead to\n\n376\n00:20:23.760 --> 00:20:30.320\nhead and came down to the only thing that's different is as Americans and we\n\n377\n00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:31.240\nplay our own\n\n378\n00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:36.550\nball we're not used to having someone back on the tee with us when we hit the\n\n379\n00:20:36.550 --> 00:20:37.360\nshot telling\n\n380\n00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:43.680\nus only me on this side of the fairway or leave me at 100 yards you know those\n\n381\n00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.280\nare thoughts\n\n382\n00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:49.700\nyou never had so for this team I had the guys when when they finished putting\n\n383\n00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:50.520\nthe guy was\n\n384\n00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:55.480\nto hit the tee shot go to the tee by himself and the other guy start down the\n\n385\n00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:56.320\nfairway and\n\n386\n00:20:56.320 --> 00:21:01.710\nget ready to hit his second shot and it worked we we handle it on this the Forc\n\n387\n00:21:01.710 --> 00:21:02.120\nums\n\n388\n00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:03.200\nplay this year.\n\n389\n00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.210\nWhat else did you learn from the loss that you were able to translate into\n\n390\n00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:06.920\nvictory?\n\n391\n00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:13.050\nWell I guess you know it's no fun to lose we were disappointed and but you know\n\n392\n00:21:13.050 --> 00:21:13.600\nwhat\n\n393\n00:21:13.600 --> 00:21:19.500\nif you're going to play you're going to experience defeat no one in golf\n\n394\n00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:21.360\nespecially or in life\n\n395\n00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:27.230\nalways you have your you know you're ups and downs you have your defeats and I\n\n396\n00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:27.920\ntry and\n\n397\n00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:33.820\nbe the same I learned that from the guys that I used to play I wanted to be the\n\n398\n00:21:33.820 --> 00:21:34.840\nsame person\n\n399\n00:21:34.840 --> 00:21:38.240\nI was when I won as I was when I was beaten.\n\n400\n00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:44.470\nWell you definitely are that did you find any difference spider in terms of\n\n401\n00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:45.960\ncoaching your\n\n402\n00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.800\ngolfers versus coaching your employees?\n\n403\n00:21:49.800 --> 00:21:58.900\nThat's a good question no I think I took I took my experience at work as a team\n\n404\n00:21:58.900 --> 00:22:00.240\nleader\n\n405\n00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:06.290\nyou might say of our group of our team and I vested the responsibility in them\n\n406\n00:22:06.290 --> 00:22:07.040\nand I did\n\n407\n00:22:07.040 --> 00:22:13.640\nthat with our golfers I wasn't an autocratic style I I said you this is a team\n\n408\n00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:14.520\neffort and\n\n409\n00:22:14.520 --> 00:22:20.280\nI want to hear from you how how what are your thoughts how are we going to do\n\n410\n00:22:20.280 --> 00:22:20.560\nthis to be\n\n411\n00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:27.040\nthe best team we can be when when the flag goes up on Saturday morning so as\n\n412\n00:22:27.040 --> 00:22:28.520\nfar as pairings\n\n413\n00:22:28.520 --> 00:22:34.520\nI had them submit their choices to me one through three and I matched them up\n\n414\n00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:35.200\nso that\n\n415\n00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:40.780\nthey essentially match themselves I didn't try and say I know this guy is a\n\n416\n00:22:40.780 --> 00:22:41.360\nlong hitter\n\n417\n00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:47.540\nthis guy is a short hitter and then we talked a lot in and their decisions were\n\n418\n00:22:47.540 --> 00:22:49.240\nmade collectively\n\n419\n00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.510\nand and I do that at work you know the the guy that's calling on the customer\n\n420\n00:22:53.510 --> 00:22:54.040\nwho sees\n\n421\n00:22:54.040 --> 00:22:59.640\nour customer every day he's the guy I listen to if he comes back and has a\n\n422\n00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:00.920\nsuggestion or\n\n423\n00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.680\nwants something then my role is to support him because he is the closest guy to\n\n424\n00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:06.760\nthe to\n\n425\n00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:14.350\nthe sale closest to our customer and I view that same way as our team I'm there\n\n426\n00:23:14.350 --> 00:23:15.240\nthe guys\n\n427\n00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.790\nthat are on the court they're the ones playing so they you tell me what I can\n\n428\n00:23:19.790 --> 00:23:20.720\ndo what we can\n\n429\n00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:25.310\ndo as a group to be better and and that's how I did what kind of responsibility\n\n430\n00:23:25.310 --> 00:23:25.680\ndid you\n\n431\n00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.740\nfeel just being the captain of the United States team I mean being the captain\n\n432\n00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:30.480\nof anything\n\n433\n00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:38.000\nUnited States must be a lot of pressure well it was it was a great honor and we\n\n434\n00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:39.040\nare are\n\n435\n00:23:39.040 --> 00:23:44.480\ngenerally always expected to win not always you know we face some GB and I\n\n436\n00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:45.640\nteams when when\n\n437\n00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:50.080\nthey had Rory and Luke Donald and so forth where we were that may have been the\n\n438\n00:23:50.080 --> 00:23:51.640\nunderdog but\n\n439\n00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:58.350\ntypically we all expect that we will win but I guess to me it was more of an\n\n440\n00:23:58.350 --> 00:23:59.000\nhonor and\n\n441\n00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:03.370\na responsibility and I tried to fulfill it I tried to do all the things that\n\n442\n00:24:03.370 --> 00:24:04.320\nwere required\n\n443\n00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:10.520\nof me that the USDA asked me to do and I tried to do them in the right way and\n\n444\n00:24:10.520 --> 00:24:11.320\nand I tried\n\n445\n00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:17.760\nto see that our players conducted themselves in the right way and and they all\n\n446\n00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:19.000\ndid everyone\n\n447\n00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.520\nand I just tried to fulfill my duties much as I would if I work for you work\n\n448\n00:24:23.520 --> 00:24:24.400\nfor anybody\n\n449\n00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:29.800\nelse I would try and fulfill my obligation to to be the best I could be as an\n\n450\n00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:30.560\nemployee\n\n451\n00:24:30.560 --> 00:24:38.030\nor as captain and you think about leadership itself you know what is it do you\n\n452\n00:24:38.030 --> 00:24:38.640\nthink it's\n\n453\n00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:48.250\ndifferentiated you as a leader and what traits do you think leaders have to\n\n454\n00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:50.120\nhave well I think\n\n455\n00:24:50.120 --> 00:24:56.970\nI think in my case what helped me is growing up in a large family I learned\n\n456\n00:24:56.970 --> 00:24:58.120\nearly on to\n\n457\n00:24:58.120 --> 00:25:07.390\ninteract with people of all ages and my mom was my mother didn't drive a car so\n\n458\n00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:08.000\nwe were\n\n459\n00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:13.850\non our own I learned to deal with people I learned how to to handle myself and\n\n460\n00:25:13.850 --> 00:25:14.560\nthe people\n\n461\n00:25:14.560 --> 00:25:23.390\nwho who were difficult but to give and take you know it was never all about me\n\n462\n00:25:23.390 --> 00:25:24.160\nit was\n\n463\n00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:29.290\nnever all about anyone and I think a leader has to bring people together and\n\n464\n00:25:29.290 --> 00:25:30.040\nmake them\n\n465\n00:25:30.040 --> 00:25:39.040\nall feel a part of the team and I think people thrive on responsibility I think\n\n466\n00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:39.720\nit's a greater\n\n467\n00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:46.370\nreward than money I think responsibility is what most people seek and I know\n\n468\n00:25:46.370 --> 00:25:46.840\nyou like\n\n469\n00:25:46.840 --> 00:25:50.770\nto learn from leaders and when you were the captain of Walker's you kept you\n\n470\n00:25:50.770 --> 00:25:51.040\nyou brought\n\n471\n00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:56.760\nin leaders to speak to the team and this year I know you you brought in George\n\n472\n00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:57.600\nBush and\n\n473\n00:25:57.600 --> 00:26:03.940\nformer president did he have an insight that really kind of fired up your team\n\n474\n00:26:03.940 --> 00:26:04.840\nwell I think\n\n475\n00:26:04.840 --> 00:26:11.310\nwhen President Bush came it was he is such a great man and I didn't quite know\n\n476\n00:26:11.310 --> 00:26:11.960\nwhat to\n\n477\n00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:20.920\nexpect he comes in he's very humble he's upbeat he's he's full of energy he sat\n\n478\n00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:21.200\ndown\n\n479\n00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:25.360\nwith the guys and he said come on let's talk about anything you want I mean he\n\n480\n00:26:25.360 --> 00:26:26.080\nwas willing\n\n481\n00:26:26.080 --> 00:26:32.440\nto share anything we wanted to ask him and he talked about as being president\n\n482\n00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:33.560\nhis greatest\n\n483\n00:26:33.560 --> 00:26:40.490\nresponsibility was protect the country and to keep us safe and and you start\n\n484\n00:26:40.490 --> 00:26:41.240\nthinking\n\n485\n00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:46.920\nabout that responsibility and he he shared some insights with about situations\n\n486\n00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:47.720\nthat happened\n\n487\n00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:54.460\nto him and he was fantastic he was amazing and and he he nicknamed one of the\n\n488\n00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:55.200\none of the\n\n489\n00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:02.400\nplayers Braden Thormberry he calls him all of branch so I said to Braden I said\n\n490\n00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:02.840\nhow cool\n\n491\n00:27:02.840 --> 00:27:09.010\nis that to have have a nickname given to you by the president so it was great\n\n492\n00:27:09.010 --> 00:27:10.160\nhe he loosened\n\n493\n00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:14.800\npeople up he made people feel at ease and there again I think is a quality of a\n\n494\n00:27:14.800 --> 00:27:15.200\ngreat\n\n495\n00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:23.260\nleader he he made everyone feel at ease around him he was he's amazing man so I\n\n496\n00:27:23.260 --> 00:27:23.840\nthink that\n\n497\n00:27:23.840 --> 00:27:31.060\nreally helped I think that helped put the the entire team at ease when it came\n\n498\n00:27:31.060 --> 00:27:31.800\nto that\n\n499\n00:27:31.800 --> 00:27:38.190\nfirst he because I couldn't say we just spent half a day with the president\n\n500\n00:27:38.190 --> 00:27:40.880\nthat's pretty\n\n501\n00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:46.920\ntall cotton is it is how you honed your leadership skills over the years by\n\n502\n00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:53.850\nOh I guess I've just tried to expand on the things that got me going in the\n\n503\n00:27:53.850 --> 00:27:54.680\nfirst place\n\n504\n00:27:54.680 --> 00:28:01.640\nand in my business career I fought through some price wars I learned to control\n\n505\n00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:03.480\nmy overhead\n\n506\n00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:08.620\nbut I also learned to to get a lot out of the people that I worked with and and\n\n507\n00:28:08.620 --> 00:28:09.160\nwe're\n\n508\n00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:16.280\nin our company and I don't know that that I've done anything different now than\n\n509\n00:28:16.280 --> 00:28:17.560\nI did\n\n510\n00:28:17.560 --> 00:28:24.000\nyou know 20 years ago when when we weren't as fortunate in the pricing\n\n511\n00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:24.760\natmosphere was\n\n512\n00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:31.550\nmuch more difficult than it is now and as far as leadership I'm a big leader\n\n513\n00:28:31.550 --> 00:28:32.080\nbeliever\n\n514\n00:28:32.080 --> 00:28:38.920\nin responsibility I think people love responsibility so I give them that and I\n\n515\n00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:39.120\nlet\n\n516\n00:28:39.120 --> 00:28:43.620\nthem control a lot of aspects of their individual jobs how have you managed\n\n517\n00:28:43.620 --> 00:28:45.200\njust the intersection\n\n518\n00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:49.990\nof being a great amateur golfer where you got to spend a lot of time golfing\n\n519\n00:28:49.990 --> 00:28:50.680\nrunning\n\n520\n00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:54.520\na business where you got to run a business and then you got a beautiful family\n\n521\n00:28:54.520 --> 00:28:55.360\nbeautiful\n\n522\n00:28:55.360 --> 00:29:01.690\nwife Kathy five kids how have you managed that intersection between golf\n\n523\n00:29:01.690 --> 00:29:02.280\nbusiness and\n\n524\n00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:09.080\nfamily well I'll start with the the the best my partner Kathy was a\n\n525\n00:29:09.080 --> 00:29:16.380\nprobably the one who allowed me the opportunity to do it because she was there\n\n526\n00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:17.520\nfor the kids\n\n527\n00:29:17.520 --> 00:29:24.360\nand did everything and yeah I miss them ball games I missed a few things and I\n\n528\n00:29:24.360 --> 00:29:24.840\nmanaged\n\n529\n00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:31.430\nmy time well I was I wouldn't I never sat down to eat lunch sometimes I would\n\n530\n00:29:31.430 --> 00:29:32.280\nstop at\n\n531\n00:29:32.280 --> 00:29:41.200\ndaylight and putt for a half an hour go to the office come back go to the I'd\n\n532\n00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:41.640\ngo to the\n\n533\n00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:47.200\ngolf course and I'd have a grab a sandwich on the way eat it while I was\n\n534\n00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:48.440\ndriving putt\n\n535\n00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:54.760\nfor an hour go back to the office leave there after work and stop the driving\n\n536\n00:29:54.760 --> 00:29:55.320\nrange and\n\n537\n00:29:55.320 --> 00:30:01.680\nhit ball still dark and then I'd come home and my wife was happy to see me and\n\n538\n00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:01.840\nand the\n\n539\n00:30:01.840 --> 00:30:11.680\nkids were great and and I missed a lot of time with the kids because it was to\n\n540\n00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:11.920\nto play\n\n541\n00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:17.280\nat the level I wanted to play was very time consuming it I always say that for\n\n542\n00:30:17.280 --> 00:30:18.000\ngolf that's\n\n543\n00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.970\nthe best and the worst thing about it is the best thing is if you have time it\n\n544\n00:30:22.970 --> 00:30:23.680\noccupies\n\n545\n00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:29.260\nyour time the worst thing is if you don't have time it's tough because it takes\n\n546\n00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:29.600\ntime\n\n547\n00:30:29.600 --> 00:30:35.000\nto to play at the level you want to definitely does you know what is what is it\n\n548\n00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:35.320\nyou think\n\n549\n00:30:35.320 --> 00:30:42.200\nthat makes golf such a great sport for for business oh I I would say that every\n\n550\n00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:43.240\nsuccess\n\n551\n00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:49.070\nI had had a tentacle and golf I think golf is the greatest vehicle certainly\n\n552\n00:30:49.070 --> 00:30:49.480\nhas been\n\n553\n00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:55.140\nin my case for business success you know you if you if you meet people and\n\n554\n00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:56.080\nwhether they're\n\n555\n00:30:56.080 --> 00:31:01.900\na customer or and my case it might be a brewery executive or whatever if they\n\n556\n00:31:01.900 --> 00:31:03.120\nplay golf you\n\n557\n00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:09.680\nhave automatically have a friendship now and sometimes if they don't play at\n\n558\n00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:10.240\nall then\n\n559\n00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:16.590\nit's going to be a lot more difficult but if they if they play and even a\n\n560\n00:31:16.590 --> 00:31:17.680\ncustomer if\n\n561\n00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:23.220\nthey play then I can take and play golf and have four to five hours of their\n\n562\n00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:23.960\ntime if I\n\n563\n00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:30.480\ngo in their office I'm like you to get five or ten minutes so on the sales side\n\n564\n00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:31.320\ngolf is\n\n565\n00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:39.150\nis a fantastic tool for selling and and and relationship wise you meet the best\n\n566\n00:31:39.150 --> 00:31:40.320\npeople\n\n567\n00:31:40.320 --> 00:31:44.410\nand I don't know of anyone who's ever gotten in trouble on a golf course and\n\n568\n00:31:44.410 --> 00:31:45.320\nthat's a great\n\n569\n00:31:45.320 --> 00:31:49.710\nplace for kids as well great great you know your spot are one of the most\n\n570\n00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:50.480\nhumble guys\n\n571\n00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:54.320\nI've ever known in spite of the fact you've done so much and accomplished so\n\n572\n00:31:54.320 --> 00:31:55.080\nmuch in your\n\n573\n00:31:55.080 --> 00:32:01.480\nlife do you work at being humble no I have nothing to crow about quite frankly\n\n574\n00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:02.720\nso it's\n\n575\n00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:11.380\neasy yeah if if I weren't humble I'd be lying because there's nothing to crow\n\n576\n00:32:11.380 --> 00:32:13.080\nabout but\n\n577\n00:32:13.080 --> 00:32:18.330\nI'm lucky I've got a you know I've got five great kids and six grandkids and\n\n578\n00:32:18.330 --> 00:32:19.360\nyou know how\n\n579\n00:32:19.360 --> 00:32:25.820\nspecial the grandkids are so I tell Kathy my wife our challenge is to be around\n\n580\n00:32:25.820 --> 00:32:26.320\nto see\n\n581\n00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:32.540\nhow it all turns out so we keep plugging away I mean you look you know it's\n\n582\n00:32:32.540 --> 00:32:33.440\nyour life\n\n583\n00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:37.670\nand business you know what do you see is the unfinished business now you have\n\n584\n00:32:37.670 --> 00:32:39.640\nin your life\n\n585\n00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:45.420\nyou know I did I want to I guess my role now is to be the best granddad that I\n\n586\n00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:46.440\ncan be\n\n587\n00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:52.950\nand to if I can provide any support to our grandchildren and our adult children\n\n588\n00:32:52.950 --> 00:32:54.200\nand then\n\n589\n00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:59.590\nany manner that to help people like you're doing with the full's of honor David\n\n590\n00:32:59.590 --> 00:32:59.960\nthe things\n\n591\n00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:06.850\nthat you do I think that's a continuation of what all of us should do is we you\n\n592\n00:33:06.850 --> 00:33:07.400\nknow\n\n593\n00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:14.620\ncome to the end of our obligations our daily obligations of work and and and to\n\n594\n00:33:14.620 --> 00:33:15.320\ntry and\n\n595\n00:33:15.320 --> 00:33:20.930\nalways contribute I'm not going to set the couch and you know I'm I'm up I\n\n596\n00:33:20.930 --> 00:33:21.560\nleave the house\n\n597\n00:33:21.560 --> 00:33:26.170\nevery morning sometimes I don't know where I go but I just I just get up and I\n\n598\n00:33:26.170 --> 00:33:26.920\ngo to work\n\n599\n00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:31.210\nyeah spider you know it's just you know you say you want to be a great\n\n600\n00:33:31.210 --> 00:33:32.360\ngrandfather now\n\n601\n00:33:32.360 --> 00:33:36.980\nyou know your grandkids so you you know how to love people and you're a great\n\n602\n00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:37.960\nfriend and\n\n603\n00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:41.800\nyou know anybody that knows you and knows you well loves you and I appreciate\n\n604\n00:33:41.800 --> 00:33:42.320\nvery much\n\n605\n00:33:42.320 --> 00:33:47.230\nyou being on this show thanks David well you're the best and you and Wendy are\n\n606\n00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:48.320\nan example of\n\n607\n00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:53.360\nwhat golf does for you I know you and I know your wife through golf isn't that\n\n608\n00:33:53.360 --> 00:33:54.000\ngreat it's\n\n609\n00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:58.240\nthe greatest thing in the world it's great so let's go play all right let's go\n\n610\n00:33:58.240 --> 00:33:58.440\nthanks\n\n611\n00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:10.910\nwell it's always fun to have a great conversation with a great friend so\n\n612\n00:34:10.910 --> 00:34:12.280\nanytime I get to spend\n\n613\n00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:17.500\nwith spider is always special for me from his early days mopping the floors at\n\n614\n00:34:17.500 --> 00:34:18.920\nthe laundromat\n\n615\n00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:24.620\nspider has understood the power of hard work and responsibility there's dignity\n\n616\n00:34:24.620 --> 00:34:25.120\nin doing\n\n617\n00:34:25.120 --> 00:34:30.600\nyour job well no matter what the job is and as a successful business leader and\n\n618\n00:34:30.600 --> 00:34:31.800\nteam captain\n\n619\n00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.110\nhe trusts his own teams with that same level of responsibility he sees himself\n\n620\n00:34:37.110 --> 00:34:38.000\nas a servant\n\n621\n00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:43.310\nand supporter for the great work his team does that's a sign of a truly great\n\n622\n00:34:43.310 --> 00:34:43.920\nleader\n\n623\n00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:48.550\nand it's an incredible opportunity for you to learn so this week is part of\n\n624\n00:34:48.550 --> 00:34:49.240\nyour weekly\n\n625\n00:34:49.240 --> 00:34:54.280\npersonal development plan ask yourself what are three ways you can give more\n\n626\n00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:55.560\nresponsibility\n\n627\n00:34:55.560 --> 00:35:00.920\nto your team instead of doing the work yourself where can you offer support and\n\n628\n00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:01.680\nservice as\n\n629\n00:35:01.680 --> 00:35:07.200\nyour team goes out and gets the job done now this isn't always easy but let me\n\n630\n00:35:07.200 --> 00:35:07.600\ntell you\n\n631\n00:35:07.600 --> 00:35:12.900\nsomething it's how you build strong teams and accomplish great things together\n\n632\n00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:13.160\nso do\n\n633\n00:35:13.160 --> 00:35:17.000\nyou want to know how leaders lead what we learned today is the great leaders\n\n634\n00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:17.640\ntrust others\n\n635\n00:35:17.640 --> 00:35:22.550\nwith responsibility thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how\n\n636\n00:35:22.550 --> 00:35:23.360\nleaders lead\n\n637\n00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:26.940\nwhere every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very\n\n638\n00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:27.720\nbest leaders\n\n639\n00:35:27.720 --> 00:35:32.060\nin the world I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode\n\n640\n00:35:32.060 --> 00:35:32.680\nthat you\n\n641\n00:35:32.680 --> 00:35:37.800\ncan apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can\n\n642\n00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:38.120\nbe.\n\n643\n00:35:38.120 --> 00:35:48.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n644\n00:35:48.120 --> 00:35:58.120\n[BLANK_AUDIO]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Well, I'm really excited. The 48th Walker Cup match is happening this weekend at the heralded Seminole Golf Club in Geno Beach, Florida. That's when leading amateur golfers of the US go head to head with the best amateurs from Great Britain and Ireland. And let me tell you something is always fun to watch. So it's a perfect time to talk to John spider Miller, who kept in the US team in 2015. And again in 2017. He's a renowned amateur golfer in his own right, and a successful beer distributor as well. Better yet, he's living proof of just how powerful responsibility is. When we work hard on our own responsibilities and then trust others with theirs. We can accomplish amazing things. This is timeless leadership wisdom, and I just can't wait for you to hear it. So here's my conversation with my good friend, his soon to be yours. The spider Miller

you know, you're actually John Miller, spotter but tell me I always like to get the upbringing of people. How'd you get that? How'd you get that name of spider?

John \"Spider\" Miller 1:33

I'm one of 11 children and Catholic family of course. I'm the middle child and my father was a small town business businessman. He had a hardware store partial ownership and a tire store a laundromat and and he added partial ownership and a beer distributorship. So dad was I guess I get it from him. And he worked hard and then having all us kids I apparently I was climbing on the shelves in his hardware store one day when I was four or five years old, and that nickname Spider was given to me and it stuck.

David Novak 2:16

Did you have a lot of jobs when you're coming up as a kid?

John \"Spider\" Miller 2:18

I did. You know, my dad was partners and number of the ventures with his brother. And he had three boys. So in high school, I got up every morning and mopped the floors in our laundromat, along with my cousin and we each got $1 A day.

David Novak 2:37

Now tell me spider What did you learn from from jobs like that?

John \"Spider\" Miller 2:40

You know, I guess for me, I think the important thing and I tell people that are raising their family if I learned one thing and raising our five children is the importance of work. And I think it's good that that young people have the responsibility to be at a certain place on time and perform a certain task and I always believe there's dignity in work and it does matter what chore what task. There's there's just dignity and and working in. And if I could pass anything on to my kids, it would be that

David Novak 3:16

you know, that's Did you have any mentors that really helped you along the way when you're

John \"Spider\" Miller 3:21

Yes, I had always sought the advice of the older people I knew in my life. My dad was one and I had another friend Elliot Phillips who's just across the river here in New Albany. He was a great mentor to me and my business career.

David Novak 3:39

Where did you get where do you first get your passion for golf?

John \"Spider\" Miller 3:43

Well, I think I started playing when I was six years old and I carried through grade school and we were a nine hole course in our little town and and I wasn't big enough to carry the bags for the men because they had those big old leather bags and generally they were stuffed with golf balls and a couple pints of whiskey. But I caddied for the women and I got $1.09 So and and she'd occasionally give me a 10 cent tip. And then I would cut the count the cut cuss words. Her name was Miss Cole. So you ll and and I kept track of her cuss words and she gave another dime for each cuss word to the church.

David Novak 4:31

So you're learning golf and trying to get at the same time. That's great. How'd you get involved in the beer business?

John \"Spider\" Miller 4:38

Well, in the beer business, my dad owned. He was a partial owner and a small distributorship. And they had patched and they had one employee and they had an offer a cash offer for it and I was home from college. And I said pop you keep the books on that, don't you? He said yeah, I have them. So I put poured over the books and I knew the purchase price that they were offered and they were going to accept. And I said, I can give you 25% More, but you have to care me, I you have to carry it on contract. And I think I could finance it over eight years, I can give you 8% interest and I'll amortize the principle. And he said, You have to go talk to the other guy. So I went around and looked up the other guys and, and they agreed, and I made every payment on time. And that's how I got started.

David Novak 5:32

Now you did that straight out of school.

John \"Spider\" Miller 5:35

I've been, I worked. How I got through college is I went for two years. Then I I worked for two years. And then when I went back to school, I worked for the golf pro. But that time I could probably do about anything on a golf course. So he hired me, I could fix the golf carts. And so I worked full time for him and I finished school part time,

David Novak 6:01

but then you're able to really put that business proposition it got you started it did.

John \"Spider\" Miller 6:05

And then And honestly, that's where I was exposed to better players. So we had a good golf team. And I played with all them all. When I could. And I just sort of maintain my passion. I ran the driving range. So you can imagine how I did it. I I didn't sit in the shed. I stood out there and pounded balls. Somebody came and wanted to rent a bike and I followed him right inside, took their money, gave him basket, then follow them right out the door and start hitting balls again.

David Novak 6:37

Now you started out in your business with paps. What brands do you have now?

John \"Spider\" Miller 6:42

Yeah, primarily. I'm Anheuser Busch. I have paps, of course, and we have Heineken. And we have Constellation Brands, which which are the modellen and corona brands. That's a number of the crafts and

David Novak 6:58

effect. Basically, you're a franchisor and and you bottle the beer and then sell it in that particular

John \"Spider\" Miller 7:05

area. Yeah, but where we differ from the soda side is that it comes to us from the brewery all packaged? But yeah, essentially, similar distribution scheme. Yeah. And then we sell the license accounts.

David Novak 7:19

What do you think makes a good franchisor? Like a but you know, what do you expect as an entrepreneur from from Anheuser Busch?

John \"Spider\" Miller 7:28

Well, we represent the brand and the community. And that's first and foremost. So if, if in our market, they think of a brand, be it Budweiser or corona, they think of us so we represent that brand. And I think that's very important is how we conduct business, how we carry ourselves, our trucks of politeness of our people, each and every person that touches a customer represents that brand and, and represents all of us, and it's a collective effort. And I think probably that's the most important thing that I am the face of a very big company, and a small area.

David Novak 8:08

Right? And how would you interact with like an Anheuser Busch?

John \"Spider\" Miller 8:12

Well, I'm a little long in the tooth right now, my youngest, my oldest son is running the company. But, you know, to me, I think they're just, they're just like we are we share a common goal, we want to increase our sales, we want to maximize profits and, and I think it's just the same way I treat my customers, I don't do anything different for them, because they hold the stick over me so to speak, but I do own my own business.

David Novak 8:43

But you know, now you've you've got your family involved, your son basically runs the business. What advice can you give people on how to best operate as a family company?

John \"Spider\" Miller 8:53

Well, I think I'm feeling my way through that. But I think it's important that the people who come into the business have worked outside the business. And that's one of the things I learned from some of the older guys that I spoke with who who had family succession is that they, their, their younger family members had experience outside of work just working for them. So they had to answer the bell for someone else who was unrelated. And then after two years, and that was kind of the threshold, I wanted at least two years outside of the family business.

David Novak 9:29

So you wanted your son to get outside get different experiences and come into the business. Yes, you know, and then you know, you got to deal with your son and he's got to deal with the Father and that's, you know, that's a lot of people say that's a much more difficult relationship and a typical boss subordinate. How do you feel about that?

John \"Spider\" Miller 9:48

Well, it it hasn't been difficult for me when I started in the in the business, let's say I was 29 I think 28 or nine and I would go to meetings and the end there would be the father and the sons. And typically the the father would do all the talking and the sides who were my age, and sometimes older than me would listen and, and I used to think to myself, you know, when my time comes, I'm not going to be the guy in the room espousing what I believe I'm gonna let I'm gonna let my if it's my kids, or if it's an unrelated party, I'm going to let them run the show. I'm going to, I'm not going to be in there, doing all the yapping for the sake of just doing it. So I've done that Joe has complete control. And I'm, I'm in there to support him. I tell him Joe, I'm here to support you in any manner I can you tell me what how I can add the most value to our organization? And what what form of support do you want from me? That's

David Novak 10:56

great. So you've really turned the reins, I haven't take direction for him in terms of what he needs. That's a sign of oil. It's a sign of great leadership. What do you look for spider when you hire people?

John \"Spider\" Miller 11:08

I guess I'm I'm driven a little bit the way I view golf, I do it by personality, I always say that I can teach you to do the job. But the difficult part is if you don't have that desire, that passion and the basic components, it's difficult. I can't change the way you think. So I try and hire someone who, who has that already innately and then we can train them to do the job. So I believe that and that's where I go back to I think it's important that young people have a job when they're young, I think it trains them for the basics. And when they show that desire to work, that's what I look for

David Novak 11:56

you know, let's talk about your, your golf career, which has been very celebrated, you're a hell of a golfer, you, you you rent one the mid amateur in 96 and 98, which is you know, just just an amazing accomplishment which allowed you to play in the masters the those two years, you know, as you developed as a golfer, and you end up playing at the Masters, what what was that like when you go from being an amateur now, you're out there with all these pros, what was that like?

John \"Spider\" Miller 12:30

Well, I there's an old saying, when when we were kids, if you wanted to seek time, go fast, take out a big mortgage, because the first of the month comes around pretty quick, but I can still remember having one and and I was up. I live in Indiana and it was cold. And the first masters commercial would come on, they would start those about, man maybe February. Maybe March they ran the teasers, you know, a tournament like no other and I remember seeing it and thinking, oh my god, I'm gonna play in that. And I hadn't played at all. But it was great. I had I had a great experience. I was very fortunate to be friends with fuzzy seller, fuzz took me under his wing rang sharp practice rounds and we played with Arnold last where I first met Arnold and got to play with Jack and and Tom Watson guys that you know, I thought a lot of as golfers and so thanks to him. It was it was very easy for me.

David Novak 13:37

Well, you You did become very good friends with the great late Arnold Palmer. What did you learn from him that you think everybody could really apply his principles in their life?

John \"Spider\" Miller 13:48

I think what I learned most from Arnold is that you treat people the same. Arnold treated the people who could not help him in any manner whatsoever. He treated them as well as the people who could help him in you know, the doorman locker room guy the the waitress, the waiter server nowadays, but Arnold was kind and he showed the same that he treated people the same, regardless of who they were. And I thought it was one of the greatest traits she he took his time and when he left you and a meet people for the first time, you always had a feeling that you knew him for a long time. He had that ability to put you at ease and and he didn't. He didn't want patronize, you know Arnold was first one to reach. He was the biggest tipper he was. He was just a special man. Yeah, you know, it's my buddy.

David Novak 14:45

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, he both also besides golf, which you both love the both love to fly and you hear he was a pilot and you're a pilot. You know what, what made you want to learn to fly and when did you do that?

John \"Spider\" Miller 14:58

Well, I've always wanted to flies a kid, my brother and I are both mechanically, I guess you'd call us motor heads when we were young. And he started, he started taking flying lessons. So he calls me and by this time, I've been talking Darren a lot. And he said, Hey, I'm gonna send this guy over an aeroplane and you gotta go up with it. So he came over and, and to me, honestly, it was like a drug, I had to know I had to figure it out. I had, I had to do this, I have to. So I started working at it. Like I did everything I got get up every morning, first lesson, daylight, and they call me the touching go kid, because I knew it was all about landing, there's no sense of worrying about the other part. If you can't land, you can't get it on the ground. You're just flying to the scene of the accident. So I focused on landing. And that was, that was what I do, I go up and then I had an instructor on when it was really windy, and lousy weather, I'd call him I knew the other students would cancel, and then him and I would go up and and do crosswind landings in the worst conditions we could find. Well, it

David Novak 16:13

takes a lot of attention to detail to be a pilot, did you apply that same kind of attention in detail in your into your business?

John \"Spider\" Miller 16:20

I did. Yeah, I think I think what a pilot is, is kind of equal parts of academia. And the other part is just mechanical aptitude, you know, the guy who's some of the best pilots, or guys who could run a bulldozer, or who could run any piece of equipment. And the other. The other side of it is, is you have to know the the airplane, the Enter intricacies, and you have to know the navigational aids and how to do that. And that's the academic part.

David Novak 16:52

Well, let's get back to Golf a little bit, you know, we can do you were the midam champ could play the Masters twice, and you played on the walker Cup team itself. And then you got the honor and 2015 to become the walker cup captain, just for our listeners tell everybody about the walker cup and how it's organized. And what it really means.

John \"Spider\" Miller 17:12

Well, the walker cup is a competition between the players in the United States versus the Great Britain and Ireland team that we call them the GB and I and the competition began in 1921. And formally, and it was the original invitation was extended to players of all countries. But it was the brainchild of George Herbert Walker, whose maternal great grandfather, President Bush 41, and the great grade of President Bush 43. But due to the economic times, and so forth, and so on, only the British only the Brits and the Irish showed up. So it was played formally in 1922, at the National Golf Links, and, and that's who showed up the press depth at the Walker cup because George Herbert Walker had donated the trophy. And, and it's now you go to this point, it was there was a period during the war from 40 to 46, in which it was not played. But now we play every two years by annual competition, and it's between our players, the best 10 players we can find in the United States, versus the best 10 players that they have in Great Britain and Ireland.

David Novak 18:36

So in 2015, you go to Royal Lytham and England and you actually lost what was it? Like, you know, to be a captain of the team? And how did you cope with that? What was the what were the feelings? And then how did you cope with

John \"Spider\" Miller 18:52

it? Well, we came in like always with high expectations and and, and we were beaten soundly. I take my hat off to our competition. That was our guys tried hard, but we were beaten and as is you know, in golf, you know, it's up to you. And I did some things that I learned a lot from the first team that I applied to the second team, which helped us a lot but it wasn't much fun at the end of the day, because you're known as the you're either known as the 2015 Walker Cup team, or the winning 2015 Walker Cup team. And I put that to our team in 2017 is up to them as to how they want to be referred to and fortunately, were referred to as the winning 2017 Walker Cup team.

David Novak 19:48

What was that feeling like? Spider to get the monkey off your back so to speak as a captain, you lose one and now you know?

John \"Spider\" Miller 19:56

Well, I had a great team first of all, and I did learn some things. I actually, believe it or not, I had some good insight from our buddy, our mutual friend Jimmy Dunn, on his thoughts of foursomes play about why why is it that the Brits seem to dominate us and foursomes, which is a alternate shot. And they don't necessarily in singles when we go head to head. And it came down to the only thing that's different is as Americans and we play our own ball, we're not used to having someone back on the tee. With us when when we hit the shot telling us, oh, leave me on this side of the fairway or leave me at 100 yards, you know, those are thoughts you never had. So for this team, I had the guys when when they finished putting the guy was to hit the tee shot, go go to the tee by himself. And the other guy started down the fairway and get ready to hit his second shot. And it worked. We handle it one this, the foursome was played this year.

David Novak 21:03

What else did you learn from the loss that you're able to translate into victory?

John \"Spider\" Miller 21:06

Well, I guess you know, it's no fun to lose. We were disappointed. And but you know what, if you're going to play you're going to experience defeat, no one in golf, especially or in life, always. You have your you know, your ups and downs, your you have your defeats, and I try and be the same. I learned that from the guys that I used to play you. I wanted to be the same person I was when I won as I was when I was beaten.

David Novak 21:38

You definitely are that. Did you find any difference? Spider in terms of coaching your golfers versus coaching your employees?

John \"Spider\" Miller 21:48

That's good question. No, I think I took I took my experience at work. As a team leader, you might say, of our group of our team, and I bested the responsibility in them. And I did that with our golfers. I wasn't an autocratic style i i said this is a team effort. And I want to hear from you. How how, what are your thoughts? How are we going to do this to be the best team we can be when when the flag goes up on Saturday morning. So as far as pairings I had them submit their choices to me one through three. And I matched them up so that they essentially matched themselves. I didn't try and say I know this guy's a long hitter, this guy's a short hitter. And then we talked a lot in our decisions were made collectively. And I do that at work. You know, the the guy that's calling on the customer who sees our customer every day. He's the guy to listen to if he comes back and has a suggestion or wants something, then my role is to support him because he is the closest guy to the, to the sale closest to our customer. And I viewed that same way as our team. They're the guys that are on the court. They're the ones playing. So they you tell me what I can do what we can do as a group to be better. And, and that's how I did.

David Novak 23:23

What kind of responsibility did you feel just being the captain of the United States team? I mean, being the captain of anything United States must be a lot of pressure.

John \"Spider\" Miller 23:33

Well, it was it was a great honor. And we are are generally always expected to win not always, you know, we faced some GB and I teams when when they had Rory and Luke, Donald and so forth where we were that may have been the underdog. But typically, we all expect that we will win. But I guess to me, it was more of an honor and a responsibility. And I tried to fulfill it. I tried to do all the things that were required to me, that the USGA asked me to do, and I tried to do them in the right way. And I tried to see that our players conducted themselves in the right way. And they all did everyone. And I just tried to fulfill my duties as much as I would if I work for you work for anybody else. I would try and fulfill my obligation to be the best I could be as an employee or is Captain

David Novak 24:32

when you think about leadership itself. You know, what is it you think it's differentiated you as a leader? And what traits do you think leaders have to have?

John \"Spider\" Miller 24:48

Well, I think, I think and my case would help me is growing up. In a large family I learned early on to interact with people of all age. is, and my mom was my mother didn't drive a car. So we were on our own, I learned to deal with people. I learned how to, to handle myself and the people who, who who were difficult, but earn to give and take. You know, it was never all about me. It was never all about anyone. And I think a leader has to bring people together and make them all feel a part of the of the team. And I think people really thrive on responsibility. I think it's a greater reward than mine than money. I think responsibility is what most people seek.

David Novak 25:45

And I know you like learn from leaders. And when you were the captain of Walker's cup, you you brought in leaders to speak to the team. And this year, I know you brought in George Bush and former president, did he have an insight that really kind of fired up your team?

John \"Spider\" Miller 26:03

Well, I think when President Bush came, it was he is such a great man. And I didn't quite know what to expect. He comes in, he's very humble. He's upbeat. He's, he's full of energy. He sat down with the guys and he said, Come on, let's talk about anything you want. I mean, he was willing to share anything we wanted to ask him and he talked about as being president, his greatest responsibility was protect the country and to keep us safe. And and and you start thinking about that responsibility. And he he shared some insights with about situations that happened to him and he was fantastic. He was amazing. And and he, he nicknamed one of the one of the players. Braden THORNBERRY calls him olive branch. So I said to Braden, I said, how cool is that to have have a nickname given to you by the President. So it was great. He He loosened people up, he made people feel at ease. And there again, I think, is the quality of a great leader. He he made everyone feel at ease around him. He was he's amazing, man. So I think that really helped. I think that helped put the the entire team at ease when it came to that first tee because i Goodness, say we just spent half a day with the President. That's

David Novak 27:39

right, that's pretty tall cotton. How have you honed your leadership skills over the years by?

John \"Spider\" Miller 27:47

Oh, I guess I've just tried to expand on the things that got me going in the first place. And in business and my business career, I have fought through some price wars, I learned to control my overhead. But I also learned to get a lot out of the people that I work with, and we're in our company. And I don't know that, that I've done anything different now than I did. You know, 20 years ago, when when we weren't as fortunate in the pricing. Atmosphere was much more difficult than it is now. And as far as leadership, I'm a big leader believer in responsibility. I think people love responsibility. So I give them that and I let them control a lot of aspects of their individual job. How have you

David Novak 28:43

managed just the intersection of being a great amateur golfer where you got to spend a lot of time golfing, running a business where you got to run a business and then you got a beautiful family, beautiful wife, Kathy, five kids, how have you managed that intersection between golf, business and family?

John \"Spider\" Miller 29:03

Well, I'll start with the the the best. My partner Kathy was probably the one who allowed me the opportunity to do it because she was there for the kids and did everything and yeah, I missed some ball games. I missed a few things. And I managed my time. Well I was I wouldn't. I never sat down the lunch. Sometimes I would stop at daylight and putt for a half an hour, go to the office, come back. Go to the I go to the golf course and I'd have a grab a sandwich on the way eat it while I was driving, putt for an hour. Go back to the office. Leave there after work and stop the driving range and hit balls so dark. And then I come home and my wife I was happy to see me and the kids were great and, and I missed a lot of time with the kids because it was to, to play at the level I wanted to play was very time consuming. I always say that for golf, that's the best. And the worst thing about it is the best thing is if you have time, it occupies your time. The worst thing is, if you don't have time, it's tough because it takes time to to play at the level you want to.

David Novak 30:32

Definitely does. You know, what is what is it you think that makes golf such a great sport for for business?

John \"Spider\" Miller 30:39

Oh, I would say that every success I had had a tentacle in golf, I think golf is the greatest vehicle certainly has been in my case, for business success, you know, your, if you if you meet people, and whether they're a customer, or in my case, it might be a break executive or whatever. If they play golf, you automatically have a friendship. Now, and sometimes if they don't play at all, then it's going to be a lot more difficult. But if they if they play, and even a customer, if they play, then I can take him play golf and have four to five hours of their time. If I go in their office, I'm like you could get five or 10 minutes. So on the sales side, Golf is a fantastic tool for selling and, and relationship wise you meet the best people. And I don't know of anyone who's ever gotten in trouble on the golf course. And that's a great place for kids as well.

David Novak 31:47

Great, great. Your spider one of the most humble guys I've ever known, in spite of the fact that you've you've done so much and accomplished so much in your life. Do you work at being humble?

John \"Spider\" Miller 31:58

I have nothing to crow about, quite frankly, so easy. Again. Yeah, if I weren't humble, I'd be lying. Because there's nothing to crow about. I'm lucky, I've got you know, I've got five great kids and six grandkids, and you know how special the grandkids are. So I tell Kathy, my wife, our challenge is to be around to see how it all turns out. So we keep plugging away.

David Novak 32:31

When you look, you know, it's your life and business just, you know, what do you see as the unfinished business now you have in your life,

John \"Spider\" Miller 32:39

you know, I want to, I guess my role now is to be the best granddad that I can be, and to if I can provide any support to our grandchildren and our adult children. And then any manner that it's to help people like you're doing with Folds of Honor, David, the things you do, I think that's a continuation of what all of us should do is we, you know, come to the end of our obligations, our daily obligations of work and, and to try and always contribute. I'm not going to sit on the couch, and you know, I'm up. I leave the house every morning. Sometimes I don't know where I go, but I just I just get up and I go to work.

David Novak 33:27

Spider, you know, it's just, you know, you say you want to be a great grandfather now. You know, kids, you know how to love people. And you're a great friend. And you know, anybody that knows you and knows you well loves you. And I appreciate very much you've been on this show.

John \"Spider\" Miller 33:43

Thanks, David. Well, you're the best and even when they are an example of what golf does for you, I know you and I know your wife through golf. Isn't that great? It's a great thing in the world.

David Novak 33:55

It's great. So let's go play. Go. Thanks.

Well, it's always fun to have a great conversation with a great friend. So anytime I get to spend with spider is always special for me. From his early days mopping the floors at the laundromat, spider has understood the power of hard work and responsibility. There's dignity and doing your job well no matter what the job is. And as a successful business leader and team captain, he trusts his own teams with that same level of responsibility. He sees himself as a servant and supporter for the great work his team does. That's the sign of a truly great leader. And it's an incredible opportunity for you to learn. So this week is part of your weekly personal development plan. Ask yourself, what are three ways you can give more responsibility to your team? Instead of doing the work yourself? Where can you all offer support and service as your team goes out and gets the job done. Now, this isn't always easy, but let me tell you something. It's how you build strong teams and accomplish great things together. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders trust others with responsibility? Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen and while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader that you can be

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