[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_136":-5,"_137":-5,"_138":139,"_140":141,"_142":143},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":-5,"_26":27,"_28":29,"_30":31,"_32":33,"_34":35,"_36":37,"_38":39,"_40":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":44,"_45":-5,"_46":47,"_48":49,"_50":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2629/find-the-balance-between-criticism-and-recognition","id",2629,"title","Find the balance between criticism and recognition","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.640\nWell, you do both. Hey, listen, people who would do a good job. You always have\n\n2\n00:00:05.640 --> 00:00:05.880\nto\n\n3\n00:00:05.880 --> 00:00:11.710\nreward them for it. And the key is you got to be able to balance it. Now,\n\n4\n00:00:11.710 --> 00:00:12.240\nsometimes\n\n5\n00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:18.200\nI would go too far and I would know it where I would criticize what they were\n\n6\n00:00:18.200 --> 00:00:23.240\ndoing and not give them enough credit for what they were doing right. And it\n\n7\n00:00:23.240 --> 00:00:28.320\nwould cause me to have to call them back on the phone and apologize and say, by\n\n8\n00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:33.000\nthe way, I think you're doing a great job. Don't, you know, when I was critical\n\n9\n00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:37.960\nof you, don't take it to heart and don't think I hate you for it. And they like\n\n10\n00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:38.200\nthe\n\n11\n00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:44.000\nfact that I get admitted, I made a mistake. Think about this a second. I don't\n\n12\n00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:44.160\nknow a\n\n13\n00:00:44.160 --> 00:00:52.760\npolitician anywhere that has the ability to say I made a mistake. Most CEOs can\n\n14\n00:00:52.760 --> 00:00:53.000\n't\n\n15\n00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:58.930\nget it out of their mouths. They can't say I made a mistake. Making a mistake\n\n16\n00:00:58.930 --> 00:00:59.240\nis the\n\n17\n00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:04.320\nsimplest thing in the world. And admitting to it is the simplest thing in the\n\n18\n00:01:04.320 --> 00:01:04.520\nworld.\n\n19\n00:01:04.520 --> 00:01:11.320\nAnd it turns his people around tremendously. It changes the way they think. It\n\n20\n00:01:11.320 --> 00:01:11.880\nchanges\n\n21\n00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:17.100\nhow they'll deal with you. People just can't do it. And you know, Bernie, what\n\n22\n00:01:17.100 --> 00:01:17.320\n's so\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",2638420,"end_time",2713860,"keywords","slug","find-the-balance-between-criticism-and-recognition","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","01nooBSR00ECjvQgFBtRZSulDNzSFHBmRE4hpR65KFThM","mux_asset_id","eR025vgnM6o02IJi0272gH02KSj8ywMoyUEFdeU7wWrgxfE","leader_id",24,"episode_id",171,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:55:04.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2629/find-the-balance-between-criticism-and-recognition","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":35,"_99":100,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_25":105,"_106":107,"_60":108,"_57":109,"_110":111,"_67":112,"_38":113,"_114":-5,"_40":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_115":116,"_87":117,"_43":118,"_119":120,"_121":122,"_45":-5,"_123":124,"_125":126,"_91":127,"_50":-5},"episode",{"_13":37,"_15":51,"_26":52,"_17":-5,"_53":54,"_18":55,"_20":56,"_57":58,"_59":-5,"_60":58,"_61":-5,"_62":63,"_64":65,"_66":-5,"_67":-5,"_68":69,"_70":71,"_72":-5,"_34":35,"_38":73,"_40":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_74":75,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":-5,"_83":-5,"_84":85,"_86":-5,"_87":-5,"_45":-5,"_88":89,"_90":-5,"_91":-5,"_50":-5},"og_image_media","Do what’s great for customers","do-whats-great-for-customers","summary","

Today I’m joined by Bernie Marcus, the cofounder of The Home Depot. At 93 years young, Bernie is an absolute icon. The Home Depot broke the mold for retail and is continuing to succeed where lots of other retailers are struggling. And you can really understand why when you spend time with Bernie. From the very beginning, he made decisions based on what’s great for the customer.

Because for Bernie, customer service isn’t just a transaction. It’s a relationship. If you want to succeed in your work, you’ve got to take care of your customers and do right by them. And this conversation is gonna get your wheels turning with ideas to do just that. And it’s gonna have you laughing, because, I gotta tell ya, Bernie has got some incredible stories!

So here is my conversation with my good friend – and soon to be yours – the one and only Bernie Marcus.

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.690\nWelcome to Howl Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n2\n00:00:07.690 --> 00:00:08.520\ninterview some\n\n3\n00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:10.360\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n4\n00:00:10.360 --> 00:00:14.140\nI break down the key learnings of that by the end of the episode, you'll have\n\n5\n00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:14.700\nsomething\n\n6\n00:00:14.700 --> 00:00:18.480\nsimple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n7\n00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:20.440\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n8\n00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:25.000\nToday, I'm joined by Bernie Marcus, the co-founder of the Home Depot.\n\n9\n00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:29.640\nAt 93 years young, Bernie is an absolute icon.\n\n10\n00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:34.050\nThe Home Depot broke the mold for retail and is continuing to succeed where\n\n11\n00:00:34.050 --> 00:00:34.800\nlots of other\n\n12\n00:00:34.800 --> 00:00:36.560\nretailers are struggling.\n\n13\n00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:40.120\nAnd that's because of the foundation that Bernie set.\n\n14\n00:00:40.120 --> 00:00:43.520\nAnd you can really understand why when you spend time with Bernie.\n\n15\n00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:47.540\nFrom the very beginning, he made decisions based on what's good for the\n\n16\n00:00:47.540 --> 00:00:48.160\ncustomer.\n\n17\n00:00:48.160 --> 00:00:52.470\nBecause for Bernie, customer service isn't just a transaction, it's a\n\n18\n00:00:52.470 --> 00:00:53.600\nrelationship.\n\n19\n00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.340\nIf you want to succeed in your work, you've got to take care of your customer\n\n20\n00:00:57.340 --> 00:00:57.920\nand do right\n\n21\n00:00:57.920 --> 00:00:59.200\nby them.\n\n22\n00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:03.540\nAnd this conversation is going to get your wheels turning with ideas to do just\n\n23\n00:01:03.540 --> 00:01:04.040\nthat.\n\n24\n00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:07.560\nAnd it's going to have you laughing because I got to tell you, Bernie has got\n\n25\n00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:08.440\nsome incredible\n\n26\n00:01:08.440 --> 00:01:11.480\nstories and he does not hold back.\n\n27\n00:01:11.480 --> 00:01:16.350\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, the one and\n\n28\n00:01:16.350 --> 00:01:16.960\nonly Bernie\n\n29\n00:01:16.960 --> 00:01:18.520\nMarcus.\n\n30\n00:01:18.520 --> 00:01:25.160\nHey, Bernie, here you are.\n\n31\n00:01:25.160 --> 00:01:30.700\nYou're 93 years old and you just released a brand new book, \"Kick Up Some Dust\n\n32\n00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:30.800\n.\"\n\n33\n00:01:30.800 --> 00:01:33.920\nWhy did you feel it was the time for you to tackle this project?\n\n34\n00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:38.160\nWell, frankly, a lot of it had to do with the coronavirus.\n\n35\n00:01:38.160 --> 00:01:41.400\nI was locked up the way everybody else was.\n\n36\n00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:46.120\nI'm an active kind of a guy and I wanted to do things.\n\n37\n00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:48.960\nAnd what best then write a book?\n\n38\n00:01:48.960 --> 00:01:52.400\nAnd I found Catherine Lewis, who is great.\n\n39\n00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:54.280\nI'm not a good writer.\n\n40\n00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:57.200\nI speak well, but I don't write well.\n\n41\n00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:01.600\nAnd Catherine was perfect for me because she was able to take my words, put\n\n42\n00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:03.200\nthem in a book.\n\n43\n00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:09.840\nAnd I think that the book is basically what I think and how I feel.\n\n44\n00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:14.960\nAnd frankly, I have not spent most of my life thinking back.\n\n45\n00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:20.450\nAnd a lot of it was a revelation to me because I always, even at 93, I'm\n\n46\n00:02:20.450 --> 00:02:21.960\nthinking about five\n\n47\n00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:28.760\nyears from now where I think things should be and where I'd like to be.\n\n48\n00:02:28.760 --> 00:02:32.800\nBut my career has really been a blessing to me.\n\n49\n00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.000\nI'm lucky I met the people I have.\n\n50\n00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.880\nKen Langone was critical of my life.\n\n51\n00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:41.120\nArthur Blank was critical.\n\n52\n00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.560\nPat Farro was critical.\n\n53\n00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:45.760\nGeorge Schultz was critical.\n\n54\n00:02:45.760 --> 00:02:50.200\nThere are so many people who form the basis of who I am.\n\n55\n00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:55.000\nAnd every one of them taught me something that I lacked before.\n\n56\n00:02:55.000 --> 00:03:00.130\nAnd it just showed that anybody who thinks you're the smartest guy in the world\n\n57\n00:03:00.130 --> 00:03:00.920\n, they're\n\n58\n00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:03.120\nprobably the dumbest guy in the world.\n\n59\n00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:05.440\nYou know, Bernie, you know a lot of people.\n\n60\n00:03:05.440 --> 00:03:10.320\nAnd I have to tell you, I was absolutely amazed when I was reading your book\n\n61\n00:03:10.320 --> 00:03:11.480\nthat Pitbull wrote\n\n62\n00:03:11.480 --> 00:03:13.120\nyour forward.\n\n63\n00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:17.440\nI figured Frank Blake, the former CEO of Home Depot, could do the profits.\n\n64\n00:03:17.440 --> 00:03:22.000\nAnd when I saw the Pitbull wrote the forward, that kind of, that took me back.\n\n65\n00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:25.600\nHow in the world did Bernie Marcus get to know Pitbull?\n\n66\n00:03:25.600 --> 00:03:30.820\nWell, you know, he tells a story about how we could get through the gate of St.\n\n67\n00:03:30.820 --> 00:03:31.160\nAndrews,\n\n68\n00:03:31.160 --> 00:03:36.780\nanother place where I live because nobody believed that Pitbull would be a\n\n69\n00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:37.600\nfriend of\n\n70\n00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:40.680\nmine and they wouldn't let him in.\n\n71\n00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:47.610\nAnd I finally got him in, but the truth is he's really kind of a mirror image\n\n72\n00:03:47.610 --> 00:03:48.720\nof myself,\n\n73\n00:03:48.720 --> 00:03:53.280\nhis parents were immigrants that came over for the old country.\n\n74\n00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.040\nThey were poor as hell.\n\n75\n00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:58.120\nHe had to make it for himself in this world.\n\n76\n00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:04.240\nAnd he's a real entrepreneur and a capitalist, whether he admitted it or not,\n\n77\n00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:04.920\nbecause he's\n\n78\n00:04:04.920 --> 00:04:08.760\ndone some wonderful things, especially in the education field.\n\n79\n00:04:08.760 --> 00:04:10.080\nHe's been terrific.\n\n80\n00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:11.680\nHe taught class together.\n\n81\n00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:15.200\nHe and I have a lot of fun with the students.\n\n82\n00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:22.170\nAnd we found out that we are very similar, different accents, different\n\n83\n00:04:22.170 --> 00:04:23.520\nupbringing.\n\n84\n00:04:23.520 --> 00:04:28.440\nParents were different, but we were the same.\n\n85\n00:04:28.440 --> 00:04:33.760\nWe believe in that you could make something yourself, but you have to work like\n\n86\n00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:34.320\nhell in\n\n87\n00:04:34.320 --> 00:04:36.080\norder to get it.\n\n88\n00:04:36.080 --> 00:04:42.240\nAnd he did that and so did I and fortunately God smiled down at us and gave us\n\n89\n00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:42.960\nwhat we\n\n90\n00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:43.960\nhave.\n\n91\n00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:44.960\nAbsolutely.\n\n92\n00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:47.800\nAnd as I understand it, Bernie, you had over 90 book titles.\n\n93\n00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:49.400\nHow'd you land on this one?\n\n94\n00:04:49.400 --> 00:04:50.600\nYou kick up some dust.\n\n95\n00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:53.840\nWell, we fought for it, frankly.\n\n96\n00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:59.260\nWe wanted something like this because we wanted to be able to get somebody's\n\n97\n00:04:59.260 --> 00:05:00.240\nattention.\n\n98\n00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.640\nIt's part of the do-it-yourself thing.\n\n99\n00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:08.880\nWe're telling people, get off your ass and do something and make life better\n\n100\n00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:10.400\nfor somebody.\n\n101\n00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:14.950\nYou know, Bernie, while we're on the subject of titles, I'd love to have you\n\n102\n00:05:14.950 --> 00:05:15.680\ntell us some\n\n103\n00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:21.260\nof the names that were rejected before you got to the Home Depot name and how\n\n104\n00:05:21.260 --> 00:05:21.920\nyou came\n\n105\n00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:23.920\nup with the name Home Depot.\n\n106\n00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:25.920\nOh, the Home Depot.\n\n107\n00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:28.240\nIt was amazing.\n\n108\n00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:31.400\nWe got all these investors together.\n\n109\n00:05:31.400 --> 00:05:32.720\nWe're under-capitalized.\n\n110\n00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.120\nWe didn't have enough money to survive.\n\n111\n00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:40.440\nWe had to get a line of credit from a bank in order to do it.\n\n112\n00:05:40.440 --> 00:05:46.840\nAnd about 30 days before, we still didn't have a name.\n\n113\n00:05:46.840 --> 00:05:53.600\nWe hired a firm out of Canada and they wanted to call it Bad Bernie's Build All\n\n114\n00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:54.520\n, showing\n\n115\n00:05:54.520 --> 00:06:01.190\nme in prison garb and saying they locked me up because we charged this low\n\n116\n00:06:01.190 --> 00:06:02.200\nprices.\n\n117\n00:06:02.200 --> 00:06:08.240\nIn fact, I have a picture of what they recommended in my office.\n\n118\n00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:15.320\nIt was me in prison garb, but there were so many names and it came about Marj\n\n119\n00:06:15.320 --> 00:06:16.240\norie.\n\n120\n00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.800\nOne of our investors was at a gas station.\n\n121\n00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:26.610\nShe looked across and there was a train depot and she started into postal words\n\n122\n00:06:26.610 --> 00:06:26.720\n.\n\n123\n00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.720\nShe called me right from the gas station and said, \"I have a name.\"\n\n124\n00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:32.720\nThis is 30 days before.\n\n125\n00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:34.080\nWe had the building.\n\n126\n00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:35.560\nWe were setting up.\n\n127\n00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:37.280\nWe were putting product in.\n\n128\n00:06:37.280 --> 00:06:40.400\nWe had no name on the building.\n\n129\n00:06:40.400 --> 00:06:45.850\nWhen she called me, she said, \"Well, part of the reason we could clear the name\n\n130\n00:06:45.850 --> 00:06:46.040\n.\"\n\n131\n00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.400\nEvery time we went in, somebody else called on the name.\n\n132\n00:06:49.400 --> 00:06:55.160\nSo she started to play house depot and product depot.\n\n133\n00:06:55.160 --> 00:07:00.200\nShe finally came up with Home Depot and she called me and she said, \"I found\n\n134\n00:07:00.200 --> 00:07:00.880\nthe name\n\n135\n00:07:00.880 --> 00:07:02.520\nHome Depot.\"\n\n136\n00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:07.640\nI said, \"I don't think I like it, but let's try it.\"\n\n137\n00:07:07.640 --> 00:07:09.680\nI wasn't in love with it.\n\n138\n00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:14.910\nI thought it was a good name, but then I called my attorneys and I said, \"Can\n\n139\n00:07:14.910 --> 00:07:15.640\nwe clear this\n\n140\n00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:16.640\nname?\"\n\n141\n00:07:16.640 --> 00:07:20.760\nThey came back and they said, \"One guy, I don't know, is St. Louis or something\n\n142\n00:07:20.760 --> 00:07:22.080\non the name\n\n143\n00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:25.360\nand we were able to buy it from him right away.\"\n\n144\n00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:26.720\nWe incorporated.\n\n145\n00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:29.000\nBut the truth is, think about the name.\n\n146\n00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:31.000\nWhat the hell does the name mean?\n\n147\n00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.120\nGimbals, Macy's, Bloomingdale's.\n\n148\n00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:37.200\nWhat they don't mean anything, Neiman Marcus.\n\n149\n00:07:37.200 --> 00:07:38.200\nWhat do they mean?\n\n150\n00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:39.800\nThey don't mean anything.\n\n151\n00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:46.350\nWhat happens is that you build a brand around it and eventually people\n\n152\n00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:48.280\nassociate the word,\n\n153\n00:07:48.280 --> 00:07:53.160\nthe name with what you produce, what your product is.\n\n154\n00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:58.800\nIt turned out that Home Depot today is one of the great brands in the world.\n\n155\n00:07:58.800 --> 00:07:59.800\nIt's known everywhere.\n\n156\n00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:00.800\nI go everywhere.\n\n157\n00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:07.240\nWherever I go and I say Home Depot, they say, \"Oh, even if they're overseas.\"\n\n158\n00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:12.480\nYou build one of the most admired companies in the world, largest retailer.\n\n159\n00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.120\nIt's an incredible success story.\n\n160\n00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:19.680\nIt's interesting, Bernie, you write, \"Kick up some dust at 93\" and you actually\n\n161\n00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:20.220\nstarted\n\n162\n00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:22.560\nHome Depot at 49.\n\n163\n00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:26.510\nWhen you look back and you had to reflect when you're writing this book, how\n\n164\n00:08:26.510 --> 00:08:27.040\nhas your\n\n165\n00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:29.720\nleadership changed over time?\n\n166\n00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.440\nOr have you always been basically the same leader?\n\n167\n00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.280\nNo, I think my style is the same.\n\n168\n00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:38.000\nI'm an entrepreneur, I'm easy.\n\n169\n00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:43.200\nI know your books and you talk about how CEOs, how they basically operate.\n\n170\n00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:49.640\nI believe in surrounding myself with smarter people that I am and let them free\n\n171\n00:08:49.640 --> 00:08:49.640\n.\n\n172\n00:08:49.640 --> 00:08:54.860\nI'll let them do their entrepreneurial things, keep a track on them and keep\n\n173\n00:08:54.860 --> 00:08:55.760\ncontrols so\n\n174\n00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:58.440\nthey don't go off the reservation.\n\n175\n00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.080\nBut generally, I like to have the smartest people in the world.\n\n176\n00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.730\nThese CEOs surround themselves with people who are dumber because they want to\n\n177\n00:09:07.730 --> 00:09:08.160\nbe the\n\n178\n00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:09.640\nsmartest guy in the house.\n\n179\n00:09:09.640 --> 00:09:10.640\nI don't want to.\n\n180\n00:09:10.640 --> 00:09:14.810\nI want to be the dumbest guy in the house and I want all these people around me\n\n181\n00:09:14.810 --> 00:09:14.840\nwho\n\n182\n00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.600\nare smarter than I am in different areas.\n\n183\n00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.000\nI, for instance, Arthur Blank.\n\n184\n00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:28.930\nArthur Blank has talents that I don't have and he's a pedantic, anal kind of\n\n185\n00:09:28.930 --> 00:09:29.920\nguy.\n\n186\n00:09:29.920 --> 00:09:30.920\nHis desk is clean.\n\n187\n00:09:30.920 --> 00:09:34.040\nIf you saw what my desk looked like, you wouldn't believe it.\n\n188\n00:09:34.040 --> 00:09:36.440\nIt looks like a tornado hit it.\n\n189\n00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:38.840\nWe're just the opposite kind of guys.\n\n190\n00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:46.000\nIt's like the odd couple and I'm playing the guy who's free and easy and author\n\n191\n00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.760\nis who\n\n192\n00:09:46.760 --> 00:09:52.880\nhe is and we were partners for 40 years working together.\n\n193\n00:09:52.880 --> 00:09:57.720\nIf you've ever met two people who are opposite, man, it's the two of us.\n\n194\n00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:04.040\nI mean, I would go in his office sometime as sprinkled dust on his desk.\n\n195\n00:10:04.040 --> 00:10:10.240\nHe would come in and go berserk because there was never any dust on his desk.\n\n196\n00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:12.000\nMe, you couldn't even find a desk.\n\n197\n00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.160\nThat's because you're a creative guy, man.\n\n198\n00:10:14.160 --> 00:10:15.160\nYou have so many ideas.\n\n199\n00:10:15.160 --> 00:10:17.280\nYou're throwing things all around the place.\n\n200\n00:10:17.280 --> 00:10:19.640\nThere's no question that that's the difference.\n\n201\n00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:20.840\nAnd he's the finance guy.\n\n202\n00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:22.480\nYou're the marketing guy.\n\n203\n00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.760\nTwo guys become the super blender.\n\n204\n00:10:24.760 --> 00:10:26.400\nYou create the super milkshake.\n\n205\n00:10:26.400 --> 00:10:29.560\nAnd you also had Ken Langone, who's a mutual friend of ours.\n\n206\n00:10:29.560 --> 00:10:34.880\nAnd Ken is a hell of a guy, as you well know, and a great leader.\n\n207\n00:10:34.880 --> 00:10:37.880\nWhat did Ken teach you about leadership?\n\n208\n00:10:37.880 --> 00:10:40.560\nAnd if you could, give me a story to illustrate it.\n\n209\n00:10:40.560 --> 00:10:43.320\nWell, Kenny, he questions everything.\n\n210\n00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.440\nIn other words, there's nothing he doesn't question.\n\n211\n00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:47.440\nGood morning.\n\n212\n00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.440\nWhat do you mean by that?\n\n213\n00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.360\nHe's just that kind of a guy.\n\n214\n00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:55.280\nAnd he's a real devil's advocate.\n\n215\n00:10:55.280 --> 00:11:01.120\nSo Kenny, who of course wasn't in the operation of the business, we use him as\n\n216\n00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:02.840\na special advisor,\n\n217\n00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.360\nespecially on financial things.\n\n218\n00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:09.320\nBut we, you know, he was the lead director on the board of directors.\n\n219\n00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:11.320\nHe went into the stores.\n\n220\n00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:16.020\nI mean, if you know him, you know, he spends a lot of time in Home Depot stores\n\n221\n00:11:16.020 --> 00:11:16.360\ntalking\n\n222\n00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.360\nto people.\n\n223\n00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:22.840\nSo he was very much involved with our business, but not in the actual operation\n\n224\n00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:24.360\nof the business.\n\n225\n00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:31.390\nKenny is a very smart, intuitive kind of person that can spot things that you\n\n226\n00:11:31.390 --> 00:11:32.240\ncould never\n\n227\n00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:33.840\nbelieve.\n\n228\n00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.800\nAnd he would spot things that we never thought of.\n\n229\n00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:43.340\nAnd he would, over the years, disagree with one direction or other that we're\n\n230\n00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.920\non to go\n\n231\n00:11:43.920 --> 00:11:45.080\non.\n\n232\n00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:47.320\nBut most cases he was so supportive.\n\n233\n00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:49.920\nAnd he's, you know, he's a positive guy.\n\n234\n00:11:49.920 --> 00:11:55.070\nHe wakes up in the morning and the glass is half full and he wants to make it\n\n235\n00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:55.760\nfull every\n\n236\n00:11:55.760 --> 00:11:56.760\nday.\n\n237\n00:11:56.760 --> 00:12:00.840\nHe's just so full of energy and so full of thoughts.\n\n238\n00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.520\nAnd he's not afraid to share with you.\n\n239\n00:12:03.520 --> 00:12:04.520\nThat's absolutely right.\n\n240\n00:12:04.520 --> 00:12:07.080\nAnd you know, you're no wallflower.\n\n241\n00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:09.960\nYou got Arthur Blank, he's no wallflower and you got Kinland.\n\n242\n00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:14.720\nAnd I see the three of you guys, the co-founders, the Home Depot in a room.\n\n243\n00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:16.800\nYou got big personality, strong opinions.\n\n244\n00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:19.360\nYou know, when you think, look back on it, Bertie.\n\n245\n00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:23.240\nWhat was the biggest disagreement you three ever had?\n\n246\n00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.000\nAnd how did you resolve it?\n\n247\n00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:28.800\nI can't think of a big one, but there were many.\n\n248\n00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:32.760\nAnd I know that Kenny, I had board meetings.\n\n249\n00:12:32.760 --> 00:12:37.120\nHe would incessantly disagree with something I wanted to do.\n\n250\n00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.760\nHe's on my foundation board, a very team member of my foundation board.\n\n251\n00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:47.540\nAnd when I announced that I wanted to build an aquarium in the city of Atlanta,\n\n252\n00:12:47.540 --> 00:12:48.000\nhe went\n\n253\n00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.560\ntotally reserved.\n\n254\n00:12:49.560 --> 00:12:53.720\nHe said, that's the stupidest, dumbest thing I've ever heard of.\n\n255\n00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:58.270\nAnd finally, I mean, we argued back and forth at a board meeting, he had all\n\n256\n00:12:58.270 --> 00:12:59.240\nboard members\n\n257\n00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:04.010\nand he said, he finally said to me, Bernie, it's your money and you could do\n\n258\n00:13:04.010 --> 00:13:04.680\nwhatever\n\n259\n00:13:04.680 --> 00:13:07.240\nyou want with it.\n\n260\n00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:12.040\nBut he finally gave in and he didn't win every argument.\n\n261\n00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:13.520\nI will tell you that.\n\n262\n00:13:13.520 --> 00:13:20.360\nI'll tell you what, he made me think twice about so many things that I did.\n\n263\n00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.880\nAnd many of them, he was right and I was wrong.\n\n264\n00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:28.130\nAnd I think that one of the things that David, you should know, a good leader\n\n265\n00:13:28.130 --> 00:13:28.880\nis somebody\n\n266\n00:13:28.880 --> 00:13:30.720\nwho listens to people.\n\n267\n00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:36.100\nBut I mean, listens, incorporate what they're saying into your brain and into\n\n268\n00:13:36.100 --> 00:13:37.160\nyour computer\n\n269\n00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:39.240\nand think about it.\n\n270\n00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:44.610\nAnd if they're right, you admit that you're wrong and you adopt whatever policy\n\n271\n00:13:44.610 --> 00:13:46.000\nthey have.\n\n272\n00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.440\nAnd so many times he was right about so many things.\n\n273\n00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.920\nBut of course, you know, that was the same thing I did with George Schulz and\n\n274\n00:13:54.920 --> 00:13:55.600\nmany other\n\n275\n00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:58.200\npeople that I met my lifetime.\n\n276\n00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.280\nThey were all very smart and you had to listen to what they said.\n\n277\n00:14:03.280 --> 00:14:09.000\nAnd in many cases, they made sense and changed the direction you were going in.\n\n278\n00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.680\nBernie, if you had to pick one trait that separates you as a leader, what would\n\n279\n00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:14.600\nit be?\n\n280\n00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.800\nAnd tell me a time when it really paid off for you?\n\n281\n00:14:17.800 --> 00:14:23.700\nWell, I could tell you a thousand times this thing about listening, where I\n\n282\n00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:24.720\nmean people\n\n283\n00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:26.400\ndon't listen.\n\n284\n00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:31.200\nYou know, you say something to them and you know, it bounces off a rock.\n\n285\n00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.280\nIt just doesn't permeate their brain.\n\n286\n00:14:34.280 --> 00:14:39.260\nYou know, I would be in a store and I had to be a seventeen or eighteen year\n\n287\n00:14:39.260 --> 00:14:39.840\nold kid.\n\n288\n00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:44.610\nI was walking through a store one day and there was a product that we're out of\n\n289\n00:14:44.610 --> 00:14:44.920\n.\n\n290\n00:14:44.920 --> 00:14:47.040\nAnd I said, \"Why are we out of it?\"\n\n291\n00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.360\nAnd he said, \"We're always out of it.\"\n\n292\n00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:51.480\nAnd I said, \"Why are you out of it?\n\n293\n00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.480\nWhy don't you order more?\"\n\n294\n00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.560\nHe said, \"Well, there's no place to put it.\"\n\n295\n00:14:54.560 --> 00:14:57.400\nSo I said, \"Well, that's pretty stupid.\"\n\n296\n00:14:57.400 --> 00:15:02.550\nIn other words, if you had two times or three times more of what you had, would\n\n297\n00:15:02.550 --> 00:15:03.080\nyou sell\n\n298\n00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:04.080\nit?\n\n299\n00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.760\nHe said, \"If I had ten times more, I could sell it.\"\n\n300\n00:15:06.760 --> 00:15:09.360\nI said, \"So why don't we do something?\"\n\n301\n00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:10.360\nHe said, \"I don't know.\n\n302\n00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:12.360\nI would stack it on a damn floor.\"\n\n303\n00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:17.640\nWell, that turned out to be a multi-million dollar idea.\n\n304\n00:15:17.640 --> 00:15:22.120\nI went back and I said, \"Oh, and Christ, this guy is right.\n\n305\n00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:27.440\nLet's stack this stuff on a floor because we had no room in the shelves.\"\n\n306\n00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.400\nAnd the more we put out, the more we sold.\n\n307\n00:15:30.400 --> 00:15:35.040\nSo listening really became the key thing for me.\n\n308\n00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:41.040\nWe taught our people when we trained our people to listen to people.\n\n309\n00:15:41.040 --> 00:15:46.600\nSome of the greatest ideas came out of the most unlikely places.\n\n310\n00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:48.480\nAnd you could make millions of dollars.\n\n311\n00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:53.560\nI could give you 50 different times that happened to me in my lifetime.\n\n312\n00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:59.010\nI remember you told Frank Blake that you're going to tell a joke as a CEO, but\n\n313\n00:15:59.010 --> 00:15:59.720\nremember\n\n314\n00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:00.720\nsomething.\n\n315\n00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.960\nYou're really not that funny.\n\n316\n00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.560\nWhat's the wisdom in that, Bertie?\n\n317\n00:16:08.560 --> 00:16:15.240\nWell, as a CEO, you're used to, unfortunately, I didn't have those kind of\n\n318\n00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:16.640\npeople, but you're\n\n319\n00:16:16.640 --> 00:16:18.600\nused to this.\n\n320\n00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.160\nYes, you're right, you're right, you're right.\n\n321\n00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:23.920\nMy people would say, \"That's bullshit.\n\n322\n00:16:23.920 --> 00:16:24.920\nIt doesn't work.\"\n\n323\n00:16:24.920 --> 00:16:29.180\nAnd they did, and they weren't afraid of a kickback because I wanted them to be\n\n324\n00:16:29.180 --> 00:16:29.680\nhonest\n\n325\n00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:31.880\nwith me and forthright.\n\n326\n00:16:31.880 --> 00:16:34.360\nAnd it made an impact on me.\n\n327\n00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:40.150\nLook, we're aware of only one thing, making a business better, making a better\n\n328\n00:16:40.150 --> 00:16:41.120\nexperience\n\n329\n00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:42.480\nfor a customer.\n\n330\n00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:47.640\nBut if they had a better idea than I did, then I had to incorporate it.\n\n331\n00:16:47.640 --> 00:16:50.080\nBut you're like a very outspoken guy.\n\n332\n00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.280\nYou're very opinionated.\n\n333\n00:16:52.280 --> 00:16:55.920\nSo here you are saying, \"Oh, you just tell me how full of shit I am.\n\n334\n00:16:55.920 --> 00:16:57.920\nI just can't wait to hear it.\"\n\n335\n00:16:57.920 --> 00:17:01.800\nI mean, you had to have some courage to take on Bernie Marcus, didn't you?\n\n336\n00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:06.350\nWell, we told them number one, they would never get fired if they were\n\n337\n00:17:06.350 --> 00:17:07.360\nrespectful.\n\n338\n00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:11.880\nIn other words, you could tell me I'm full of shit in a respectful way.\n\n339\n00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.640\nAnd then they'd disrespectful way.\n\n340\n00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:17.560\nSo as long as they were respectful, it was acceptable.\n\n341\n00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:18.560\nIt was okay.\n\n342\n00:17:18.560 --> 00:17:24.120\nAnd if it made sense, then certainly it was respectful.\n\n343\n00:17:24.120 --> 00:17:28.640\nAnd listen, I remember the time where I went to the stores and they were\n\n344\n00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:29.720\nspending their\n\n345\n00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:34.080\nMondays in their office filling out these forms.\n\n346\n00:17:34.080 --> 00:17:37.720\nAnd I was trying to defend our systems.\n\n347\n00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.980\nAnd of course, the key, which I didn't write about in a book, was that one of\n\n348\n00:17:41.980 --> 00:17:42.560\nthe guys\n\n349\n00:17:42.560 --> 00:17:45.080\ngot up and said, \"Bernie, you're so full of shit.\n\n350\n00:17:45.080 --> 00:17:46.840\nThe systems don't work.\"\n\n351\n00:17:46.840 --> 00:17:50.760\nAnd I stopped and I said, \"How many people think I'm full of shit?\n\n352\n00:17:50.760 --> 00:17:52.320\nThe systems don't work.\"\n\n353\n00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:54.080\nThey all raised their hand.\n\n354\n00:17:54.080 --> 00:17:56.800\nAnd I said, \"Well, I must be full of shit.\n\n355\n00:17:56.800 --> 00:17:59.960\nSo let's do something really good.\"\n\n356\n00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:05.160\nI didn't put that in the book because it didn't quite go over.\n\n357\n00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.600\nBut that's the way it happened.\n\n358\n00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:09.600\nYou accept it.\n\n359\n00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:14.220\nYou accept it as long as it's respectful and as long as it's positive and as\n\n360\n00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:15.000\nlong as it's\n\n361\n00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.000\nmeaningful.\n\n362\n00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.580\nIf somebody says, \"I'm full of shit because they don't like me,\" that's a\n\n363\n00:18:19.580 --> 00:18:22.440\ndifferent story.\n\n364\n00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:29.570\nHey, because you're listening to this, I can tell, you're the kind of person\n\n365\n00:18:29.570 --> 00:18:30.280\nwho wants\n\n366\n00:18:30.280 --> 00:18:32.480\nto learn how to lead well.\n\n367\n00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.040\nBut there's a lot of companies out there who want to take that desire and\n\n368\n00:18:36.040 --> 00:18:37.840\ncharge you $500\n\n369\n00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:43.560\nor $1,000 or heck, even $20,000 to try and show you how to lead.\n\n370\n00:18:43.560 --> 00:18:45.560\nThat's just not right.\n\n371\n00:18:45.560 --> 00:18:48.720\nIf you want to be a better leader, I believe you deserve to have access to\n\n372\n00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.520\nsomething that\n\n373\n00:18:49.520 --> 00:18:53.320\nwill truly help you and it shouldn't cost a fortune.\n\n374\n00:18:53.320 --> 00:18:57.840\nSo I want you to go to howleaderslead.com and start my leadership class.\n\n375\n00:18:57.840 --> 00:18:59.840\nIt's really and truly free.\n\n376\n00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:04.480\nBut after you take this class, you're going to feel more confident in your role\n\n377\n00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:04.800\nand you'll\n\n378\n00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:08.160\nbe on your way to getting big things done with your team.\n\n379\n00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:16.360\nGo check it out at howleaderslead.com.\n\n380\n00:19:16.360 --> 00:19:20.650\nYou're arguably, you along with Pat Farrell, you really became the best merch\n\n381\n00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:21.320\nandisers in\n\n382\n00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:22.320\nretail history.\n\n383\n00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:24.400\nI mean, you guys are incredible.\n\n384\n00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:28.420\nAnd I'd like you to just walk me through some of the things you did to make the\n\n385\n00:19:28.420 --> 00:19:29.040\ncustomer\n\n386\n00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:34.040\nexperience one of a kind at the Home Depot and maximize your sales.\n\n387\n00:19:34.040 --> 00:19:39.040\nWell, one day, I'll tell you, I came out of an experience I had.\n\n388\n00:19:39.040 --> 00:19:44.670\nI was in the store and I, and there was a customer there and they were doing a\n\n389\n00:19:44.670 --> 00:19:45.880\nrefurbishing\n\n390\n00:19:45.880 --> 00:19:47.440\nof their house.\n\n391\n00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.440\nAnd I kept talking to the guy, the man, the husband.\n\n392\n00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:53.840\nAnd I kept saying, you have to do this.\n\n393\n00:19:53.840 --> 00:19:58.040\nAs she looked at me and she said, why are you talking to him?\n\n394\n00:19:58.040 --> 00:20:03.400\nHe's a dumb one, and he doesn't know anything about what I'm doing.\n\n395\n00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.000\nI am running this thing.\n\n396\n00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.440\nIf anybody's going to pick out a color and anybody's going to do a repair in\n\n397\n00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:11.160\nour house,\n\n398\n00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.000\nI'm going to do it.\n\n399\n00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.960\nHe's the dummy that does it.\n\n400\n00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:17.240\nI'm the one that picks it out.\n\n401\n00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:21.120\nAnd I came back to Pat and I said, I found out something today, the women\n\n402\n00:20:21.120 --> 00:20:22.080\nreally control\n\n403\n00:20:22.080 --> 00:20:24.520\nthe redecoration in the house.\n\n404\n00:20:24.520 --> 00:20:28.720\nAnd Pat said, well, then why don't we give a class for women?\n\n405\n00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.120\nAnd then we started to give classes for women.\n\n406\n00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:37.360\nIt was a brilliant idea and we taught them how to do their own tile work, how\n\n407\n00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:37.880\nto do\n\n408\n00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:39.040\nelectrical.\n\n409\n00:20:39.040 --> 00:20:43.800\nThey turned out to be great and they were our best customers actually.\n\n410\n00:20:43.800 --> 00:20:49.610\nThe guys are word dummies and we took their own families who realized, you know\n\n411\n00:20:49.610 --> 00:20:50.280\n, we want\n\n412\n00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:51.960\nto do something in a house.\n\n413\n00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:53.440\nThe woman really controls us.\n\n414\n00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:59.130\nSo that whole turn of events was a very important one for Home Depot and Pat\n\n415\n00:20:59.130 --> 00:21:00.400\nBarrett is the one\n\n416\n00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.360\nthat came up with how to deal with it.\n\n417\n00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:08.250\nAnd I was giving classes and it really turned out to be a major decision for us\n\n418\n00:21:08.250 --> 00:21:08.280\n.\n\n419\n00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:11.440\nSo you teach classes not only to the women, but also to men.\n\n420\n00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.570\nSo you really give people the instruction they need to really, you know, redo\n\n421\n00:21:14.570 --> 00:21:14.960\ntheir\n\n422\n00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:15.960\nhouses.\n\n423\n00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:19.260\nAnd one other thing that I noticed that you did, which I really thought was\n\n424\n00:21:19.260 --> 00:21:19.920\nfascinating\n\n425\n00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.800\nis that you walk into Home Depot, there's no numbers on the aisles.\n\n426\n00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:25.320\nWhere'd that come from?\n\n427\n00:21:25.320 --> 00:21:27.520\nBecause we wanted people to wander.\n\n428\n00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:31.580\nIn other words, we didn't want them to come in and just be able to go to a\n\n429\n00:21:31.580 --> 00:21:32.480\nshelf, pick\n\n430\n00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.360\nwhat they want and go out.\n\n431\n00:21:34.360 --> 00:21:39.270\nWe figured if they wondered, they'd see products on the shelf and say, Hey, I\n\n432\n00:21:39.270 --> 00:21:40.440\nneed that.\n\n433\n00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:47.840\nSo our whole theory was if you came into the Home Depot to spend $20, you had\n\n434\n00:21:47.840 --> 00:21:48.240\nto leave\n\n435\n00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.360\nspending $250.\n\n436\n00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:53.200\nAnd it worked for many years.\n\n437\n00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.360\nListen, today we become so sophisticated.\n\n438\n00:21:56.360 --> 00:21:57.520\nIt's all online.\n\n439\n00:21:57.520 --> 00:21:59.840\nIt's all on computer.\n\n440\n00:21:59.840 --> 00:22:04.120\nAnd you can walk through with the phone and find what you want.\n\n441\n00:22:04.120 --> 00:22:08.400\nBut they're so far ahead of where I was in those days.\n\n442\n00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:13.070\nThey keep upgrading our systems and upgrading it and the customers are making a\n\n443\n00:22:13.070 --> 00:22:14.240\nbetter experience\n\n444\n00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.800\nevery day.\n\n445\n00:22:15.800 --> 00:22:20.820\nBut in those days, we wanted people to wander and people would always say to me\n\n446\n00:22:20.820 --> 00:22:21.720\n, I hate to\n\n447\n00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.000\ngo to your store.\n\n448\n00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:24.000\nI just hated it.\n\n449\n00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.000\nAnd I would say why?\n\n450\n00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.680\nAnd they'd say, I spent the fortune there last week and I had no idea.\n\n451\n00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:34.440\nI came in for light bulbs to cry out loud and I walked out with a drill.\n\n452\n00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.080\nNow, you also had a 1-800 number.\n\n453\n00:22:38.080 --> 00:22:40.200\nI think it's 1-800-BEN-HILL.\n\n454\n00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.200\nTell us about that.\n\n455\n00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.680\nWell, that's also Pat Farrah.\n\n456\n00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:49.180\nWhen customers called in, we wanted to make sure that the right person got the\n\n457\n00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:50.440\nright...\n\n458\n00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:55.530\nYou know, typically you call in and some dummy answers the phone and says, yes\n\n459\n00:22:55.530 --> 00:22:56.160\nor no.\n\n460\n00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.600\nSo let my manager call you back.\n\n461\n00:22:58.600 --> 00:23:04.290\nThat Home Depot, especially in the early years, our theory was it started at\n\n462\n00:23:04.290 --> 00:23:05.240\nthe top.\n\n463\n00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:09.240\nSo he came up with the idea of using a name Ben Hill.\n\n464\n00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.720\nIt was the name of an exit off the highway.\n\n465\n00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.040\nSo you call Ben Hill.\n\n466\n00:23:15.040 --> 00:23:20.080\nBen Hill was whoever was on in that day and it started with me.\n\n467\n00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:21.800\nI was number one.\n\n468\n00:23:21.800 --> 00:23:23.240\nArthur was number two.\n\n469\n00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:24.960\nPat was number three.\n\n470\n00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:28.400\nSo whenever the calls came in, it would be in that order.\n\n471\n00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:30.640\nI would get the first one.\n\n472\n00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:35.250\nAnd believe me, when I got the call and I heard that people had a bad\n\n473\n00:23:35.250 --> 00:23:36.640\nexperience or didn't\n\n474\n00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.200\nhave a product that worked, I made sure it happened.\n\n475\n00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:47.220\nSo we did that in the early years and that created a real trust factor between\n\n476\n00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:47.880\nus and\n\n477\n00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:49.440\nthe consumer.\n\n478\n00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:54.080\nThey really trusted us and they believe we really cared about them because we\n\n479\n00:23:54.080 --> 00:23:54.600\ndid.\n\n480\n00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:57.600\nSo it's a customer service hotline.\n\n481\n00:23:57.600 --> 00:24:01.250\nAnd if you're in a store and somebody calls in and they have an issue, you were\n\n482\n00:24:01.250 --> 00:24:01.760\nnumber\n\n483\n00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:05.480\none and you'd pick that thing up and you'd handle it directly yourself.\n\n484\n00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:06.480\nYeah.\n\n485\n00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:07.480\nYeah.\n\n486\n00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:08.480\nThat's awesome.\n\n487\n00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:13.400\nSo I was really impressed that you had a liberal return policy.\n\n488\n00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:19.020\nYou could literally at one time at Home Depot, you could buy a chainsaw, use it\n\n489\n00:24:19.020 --> 00:24:19.720\n, and then\n\n490\n00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.120\nyou could bring it back and you get a full refund.\n\n491\n00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:26.480\nAnd then I have to ask you, I know this was a part of your concept.\n\n492\n00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:31.170\nWhat was your thinking when you find out the CEO comes in from the outside and\n\n493\n00:24:31.170 --> 00:24:31.880\ntakes away\n\n494\n00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:34.920\nthat return policy that you had?\n\n495\n00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:36.200\nHow did you feel about that?\n\n496\n00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:40.920\nWell, he pissed me off and I'll tell you where it affected myself.\n\n497\n00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.990\nPeople working for me in Atlanta, we bought a washing machine at Home Depot, a\n\n498\n00:24:45.990 --> 00:24:47.160\ndishwasher.\n\n499\n00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.280\nAnd I noticed that they were washing dishes by hand.\n\n500\n00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:54.040\nI said, \"Why are you washing by hand?\"\n\n501\n00:24:54.040 --> 00:24:57.080\nAnd they said, \"Well, because the dishwasher doesn't work.\"\n\n502\n00:24:57.080 --> 00:24:59.960\nAnd I said, \"Well, we bought it at the Home Depot.\"\n\n503\n00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:00.960\nAnd they said, \"Yeah.\"\n\n504\n00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:05.370\nAnd I said, \"Well, why don't you call them and just get it out of here and get\n\n505\n00:25:05.370 --> 00:25:05.800\na new\n\n506\n00:25:05.800 --> 00:25:06.800\nmachine?\"\n\n507\n00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:12.330\nAnd they said, \"Well, Nardelli had this new policy that the manufacturer really\n\n508\n00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:12.720\ngave\n\n509\n00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:13.720\nthe warranty.\n\n510\n00:25:13.720 --> 00:25:15.760\nHe wasn't Home Depot anymore.\"\n\n511\n00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:16.760\nAnd I went totally reserved.\n\n512\n00:25:16.760 --> 00:25:22.080\nI mean, I called Nardelli up and I called him every name under the sun.\n\n513\n00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:26.280\nAnd I said, \"Get that freaking washing machine, that dishwasher out of my\n\n514\n00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:27.440\ngoddamn house now,\n\n515\n00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.680\nor I'll shove it up your ass.\"\n\n516\n00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:34.480\nAnd he said, \"Okay, I'll have it done.\n\n517\n00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.440\nThis is only one of the policies that he changed.\n\n518\n00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.820\nAnd as soon as Frank got back in, that's one of the first policies that he went\n\n519\n00:25:41.820 --> 00:25:42.200\nback\n\n520\n00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:43.200\nto.\"\n\n521\n00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:45.880\nYou know, Bernie, it's interesting because I don't know if a lot of people\n\n522\n00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:46.720\nreally understand\n\n523\n00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.920\nthis, but you have this return policy.\n\n524\n00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:53.040\nAnd everybody goes, \"Oh, man, that's going to cost you so much money.\"\n\n525\n00:25:53.040 --> 00:25:57.220\nBut in the end, because you put the customer first like that, don't you end up\n\n526\n00:25:57.220 --> 00:25:57.880\nmaking more\n\n527\n00:25:57.880 --> 00:25:58.880\nmoney, Bernie?\n\n528\n00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:04.280\nWell, remember how much the dollars people spend on advertising?\n\n529\n00:26:04.280 --> 00:26:07.240\nThey spend millions of dollars.\n\n530\n00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.860\nIn many cases, they be better off just taking care of their customer and not\n\n531\n00:26:11.860 --> 00:26:12.680\nspending as\n\n532\n00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:14.360\nmuch money as they have to.\n\n533\n00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:19.040\nThey spend a lot of money because they're trying to convince the customer that\n\n534\n00:26:19.040 --> 00:26:19.280\nthey're\n\n535\n00:26:19.280 --> 00:26:21.400\nbetter than they really are.\n\n536\n00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:27.530\nWhy aren't you just good and start that way and you'll find that your business\n\n537\n00:26:27.530 --> 00:26:29.360\ngets bigger?\n\n538\n00:26:29.360 --> 00:26:33.400\nWe just believe whatever we said we believed in.\n\n539\n00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:38.520\nEverything that made the customers have a good experience is what we did.\n\n540\n00:26:38.520 --> 00:26:41.880\nYou know, one of the things that you said, Bernie, was that in I quote you on\n\n541\n00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:42.520\nthis, I said,\n\n542\n00:26:42.520 --> 00:26:43.800\n\"We don't own customers.\n\n543\n00:26:43.800 --> 00:26:46.800\nThey're on lease and it's a short-term lease.\"\n\n544\n00:26:46.800 --> 00:26:50.240\nHow did this view impact how you would literally galvanize your team?\n\n545\n00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:53.840\nHow did you get the team to really feel that in their bones like you did?\n\n546\n00:26:53.840 --> 00:26:59.340\nWell, first of all, one of the things that we did that was, I think, amazing in\n\n547\n00:26:59.340 --> 00:27:00.280\nour company\n\n548\n00:27:00.280 --> 00:27:06.610\nwas that author and I went to the board and said, \"Put a provision and actually\n\n549\n00:27:06.610 --> 00:27:06.760\nvote\n\n550\n00:27:06.760 --> 00:27:11.680\non it that we will never take an option in the company.\"\n\n551\n00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:18.110\nIn other words, we could have been, I guess I'd be as wealthy as Warren Buffett\n\n552\n00:27:18.110 --> 00:27:18.840\ntoday,\n\n553\n00:27:18.840 --> 00:27:23.490\nhad we taken options, hundreds of thousands of dollars every year and over the\n\n554\n00:27:23.490 --> 00:27:24.240\nyears,\n\n555\n00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:29.200\nthink about 20 years, I got those how many shares I would have owned.\n\n556\n00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.990\nBut our preference was to share it with all of our associates and have managers\n\n557\n00:27:33.990 --> 00:27:34.640\n, assistant\n\n558\n00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:39.680\nmanagers, department heads all have stopped in the company.\n\n559\n00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:43.000\nSo they all felt they were working for themselves.\n\n560\n00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.000\nWhen a stock went up, they got richer.\n\n561\n00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:51.030\nThe reason stock goes up because the sales go up and sales go up because the\n\n562\n00:27:51.030 --> 00:27:51.880\ncustomers\n\n563\n00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.800\nhave a great experience.\n\n564\n00:27:54.800 --> 00:28:00.330\nThey understood that and even today, if you go into the stores, they'll tell\n\n565\n00:28:00.330 --> 00:28:00.920\nyou to have\n\n566\n00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:05.630\ncrowd they are, don't stock in the company, don't store and look at somebody's\n\n567\n00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:06.400\ngot a badge\n\n568\n00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:09.640\nthat says 15 years or 25 years.\n\n569\n00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:12.480\n25 years are probably a millionaire.\n\n570\n00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.160\nThey own stock in the company and the reason they keep working is because they\n\n571\n00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:17.960\n're working\n\n572\n00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:23.360\nfor themselves and they're the beneficiaries of the good work and the way they\n\n573\n00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:24.760\ntreat customers.\n\n574\n00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:29.900\nAnother thing you did along those lines, Bernie, to capture that is, and I was\n\n575\n00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:30.600\nalways impressed\n\n576\n00:28:30.600 --> 00:28:34.940\nby this as well, is that when you walk into Home Depot, you used to wear the\n\n577\n00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:35.680\naprons and\n\n578\n00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:39.680\nI still see it a little bit today, which is I'm an owner, ask me.\n\n579\n00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:44.450\nYeah, listen, I would go to the store and somebody, you know, I would take care\n\n580\n00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:45.120\nof a\n\n581\n00:28:45.120 --> 00:28:46.120\ncustomer.\n\n582\n00:28:46.120 --> 00:28:50.070\nI know many cases they would argue with me and they would say, you know, this\n\n583\n00:28:50.070 --> 00:28:50.600\nis bad or\n\n584\n00:28:50.600 --> 00:28:51.600\nthat is bad.\n\n585\n00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:56.350\nAnd then I would say, my name is Bernie Marcus and I started Home Depot and I'd\n\n586\n00:28:56.350 --> 00:28:57.080\nsay, oh my\n\n587\n00:28:57.080 --> 00:29:00.440\nGod, Mr. Marcus, oh my God, oh, I'm sorry.\n\n588\n00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:02.000\nI didn't mean what I said.\n\n589\n00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:07.940\nSo when I said, no, no, I'm happy to hear what you said because any complaint\n\n590\n00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:08.320\nwas one\n\n591\n00:29:08.320 --> 00:29:10.480\nthat I wanted to hear.\n\n592\n00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.880\nI didn't want to hear good things because we pay for the good things.\n\n593\n00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:16.560\nIt's supposed to be good.\n\n594\n00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:20.440\nWhat I want to hear is what's not working so we can fix it.\n\n595\n00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:23.960\nYou know, you even talk about the importance of cultivating customers.\n\n596\n00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:25.120\nThat's an interesting word.\n\n597\n00:29:25.120 --> 00:29:28.360\nYou know, what did that mean to you cultivating customers?\n\n598\n00:29:28.360 --> 00:29:34.660\nWell, you take a customer who had inability to do anything in the house except\n\n599\n00:29:34.660 --> 00:29:35.320\nchange\n\n600\n00:29:35.320 --> 00:29:41.130\nyour light bulb and all of a sudden one day they're putting in a ceiling fan\n\n601\n00:29:41.130 --> 00:29:42.200\nand the next\n\n602\n00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:47.640\nday they're fixing their toilet and that's cultivation.\n\n603\n00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:54.100\nAnd I'll give you an example, a couple of weeks ago I had a meeting, I haven't\n\n604\n00:29:54.100 --> 00:29:55.800\nmet somebody\n\n605\n00:29:55.800 --> 00:30:01.450\nand he said to me, he's working on something in his house and he didn't know\n\n606\n00:30:01.450 --> 00:30:02.840\nanything about\n\n607\n00:30:02.840 --> 00:30:08.460\nanything about how to do it himself and he keeps going back to the store and\n\n608\n00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:09.080\nthey keep\n\n609\n00:30:09.080 --> 00:30:14.920\nteaching him how to use the product and when he makes a mistake, they give him\n\n610\n00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:15.640\na card and\n\n611\n00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:20.560\nhe calls that individual and that individual walks him through whatever he was\n\n612\n00:30:20.560 --> 00:30:21.160\nworking\n\n613\n00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:28.280\non and that's cultivation and as you do that, people trust you more because\n\n614\n00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:29.240\nthey know it's\n\n615\n00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:35.540\nnot just a seller product, it's a seller service and selling a product for a\n\n616\n00:30:35.540 --> 00:30:36.080\nlot of\n\n617\n00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:37.800\nmoney that's amazing.\n\n618\n00:30:37.800 --> 00:30:42.730\nOur policy was, you know, if you have a choice of selling a customer, something\n\n619\n00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:44.760\nof $500 and\n\n620\n00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:50.210\nyou have something that's $100 that would do the job for them, selling the $100\n\n621\n00:30:50.210 --> 00:30:50.520\none,\n\n622\n00:30:50.520 --> 00:30:54.820\nyou know what to sell them, it's not important to sell them a big one and our\n\n623\n00:30:54.820 --> 00:30:56.040\npeople took to\n\n624\n00:30:56.040 --> 00:31:00.610\nthat because that's, if their relative came in the store, their mother, their\n\n625\n00:31:00.610 --> 00:31:01.240\nfather,\n\n626\n00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.680\ntheir brothers, that's what they would do with their brothers.\n\n627\n00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:10.200\nListen, our whole business is the 500,000 people and those people are working\n\n628\n00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:11.400\nthe stores\n\n629\n00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:16.280\nare the people that make our customers even today, they're wonderful.\n\n630\n00:31:16.280 --> 00:31:21.770\nWhen a customer comes in the store, they think about what's good for the\n\n631\n00:31:21.770 --> 00:31:22.600\ncustomer,\n\n632\n00:31:22.600 --> 00:31:24.680\nnot what's good for Home Depot.\n\n633\n00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:28.100\nYou know, I know at the Home Depot, you love to tell stories about your\n\n634\n00:31:28.100 --> 00:31:28.840\ncustomers and\n\n635\n00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:33.560\nwhat would be your favorite customer story of all time and I know you have\n\n636\n00:31:33.560 --> 00:31:34.200\nhundreds of them,\n\n637\n00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.000\nbut what would be the one that you just love to tell the most?\n\n638\n00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:43.640\nWell, there was one, we disappointed the customer, they were doing a kitchen\n\n639\n00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:45.800\nand we promised delivery\n\n640\n00:31:45.800 --> 00:31:51.040\nof the kitchen and they pulled their old kitchen out, they had the plumbers\n\n641\n00:31:51.040 --> 00:31:51.880\navailable\n\n642\n00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:59.240\nand the day we said we delivered a new kitchen, we failed them and of course a\n\n643\n00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:00.440\nBen Hill tool came\n\n644\n00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:10.040\nin and I got the Ben Hill call and the guy started really unleashed a torrent\n\n645\n00:32:10.040 --> 00:32:10.120\nof\n\n646\n00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:16.440\nSaturdays at me, you know, you guys are killing me, son of a bitch, you know,\n\n647\n00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:17.560\nand everything in it.\n\n648\n00:32:17.560 --> 00:32:21.960\nI just took it all in and I said, you know, 100% right, I said, we're going to\n\n649\n00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:23.080\ntake care of this for you\n\n650\n00:32:23.080 --> 00:32:28.040\nand the end is that we built the kitchen and we gave it to them for nothing\n\n651\n00:32:28.760 --> 00:32:34.140\nbecause we had, there was like a three month period where this guy had no\n\n652\n00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:35.880\nkitchen and it was over\n\n653\n00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:41.830\nThanksgiving and Christmas and I just put myself in his place, he had no\n\n654\n00:32:41.830 --> 00:32:44.120\nkitchen, he had his family\n\n655\n00:32:44.120 --> 00:32:48.190\nin for dinner, where the hell are they going to give him thanks to, you know,\n\n656\n00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:49.560\nturkey and so\n\n657\n00:32:49.560 --> 00:32:53.320\nwe made it out for it and we built the kitchen for him.\n\n658\n00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:58.750\nThat's a great story and Bernie, you're obviously a visionary and I got to ask\n\n659\n00:32:58.750 --> 00:32:59.320\nyou, would you have\n\n660\n00:32:59.320 --> 00:33:05.470\nthis aha moment for the Home Depot concept and what made you think it would\n\n661\n00:33:05.470 --> 00:33:06.840\nwork? I mean,\n\n662\n00:33:06.840 --> 00:33:10.120\nwhen did it hit you that you're going to have this big box and you're going to\n\n663\n00:33:10.120 --> 00:33:11.080\nstack it high\n\n664\n00:33:11.080 --> 00:33:14.770\nand sell it lower than everybody else and you know, you can get everything in\n\n665\n00:33:14.770 --> 00:33:15.880\nthe world that you\n\n666\n00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.640\nwant to, when did that idea hit you? Well, it accumulated over a period of time\n\n667\n00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:21.640\n. I was running\n\n668\n00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:27.830\nthis company called Handy Dan, which was typical of all the hardware stores in\n\n669\n00:33:27.830 --> 00:33:29.720\nAmerica. We were a\n\n670\n00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:36.500\nsmall do-it-yourself place, they're 35,000 feet or 40,000 feet and we carried\n\n671\n00:33:36.500 --> 00:33:37.880\ntwo of this and one of\n\n672\n00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:43.730\nthat and three of this and customers would come in and ask us for a brand that\n\n673\n00:33:43.730 --> 00:33:44.760\nwe didn't have\n\n674\n00:33:45.320 --> 00:33:52.140\nor something that we didn't stock and it happened every single day and I was in\n\n675\n00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:53.480\nthe stores and I\n\n676\n00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:58.280\nliked it and as I was running Handy Dan, I didn't know how to solve it because\n\n677\n00:33:58.280 --> 00:33:59.880\nit had 35,000 square\n\n678\n00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:05.400\nfoot buildings so I began to think in terms of what if we opened a gigantic\n\n679\n00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.640\nstore and what if we\n\n680\n00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:13.500\ncarried everything that a customer would want under one roof? In other words,\n\n681\n00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:14.520\nthey didn't have to go\n\n682\n00:34:14.520 --> 00:34:19.620\nto hardware stores, electrical stores, plumbing stores, or paint stores anymore\n\n683\n00:34:19.620 --> 00:34:20.360\nor lumber yards\n\n684\n00:34:20.360 --> 00:34:25.940\nfor that matter. If we all had it under one roof, we could solve the problem\n\n685\n00:34:25.940 --> 00:34:27.560\nthat a problem was\n\n686\n00:34:27.560 --> 00:34:34.170\nthat the numbers didn't add up. Author the accountant sat down and put this all\n\n687\n00:34:34.170 --> 00:34:35.000\ntogether\n\n688\n00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:41.800\nand showed me that we couldn't do it and especially because I wanted to sell at\n\n689\n00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:42.760\nprices\n\n690\n00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:47.320\nthat were less than anybody else because I wanted to buy direct-to-manufactures\n\n691\n00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:49.000\n, not from distributors\n\n692\n00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.870\nand give that money back to the consumer and the numbers didn't work and Arthur\n\n693\n00:34:53.870 --> 00:34:54.920\nkept saying\n\n694\n00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:59.220\nit doesn't work and I remember just before we met with the investors, Arthur\n\n695\n00:34:59.220 --> 00:35:00.040\nsaid to me,\n\n696\n00:35:00.040 --> 00:35:05.330\n\"It's all facade, it doesn't work.\" And I said, \"Just change the numbers for\n\n697\n00:35:05.330 --> 00:35:07.240\nChrist's sake.\" I said,\n\n698\n00:35:07.240 --> 00:35:12.070\ninstead of using 20 million dollars for sales, put in 30. He said, \"That's\n\n699\n00:35:12.070 --> 00:35:13.160\ndishonest.\" I said,\n\n700\n00:35:13.160 --> 00:35:18.100\n\"Yeah.\" I said, \"But we're going to do much more than that.\" And the truth is\n\n701\n00:35:18.100 --> 00:35:18.920\nwe did double and\n\n702\n00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:24.330\ntriple that. Listen, it's like opening a aquarium. I knew that in the middle of\n\n703\n00:35:24.330 --> 00:35:25.400\nAtlanta, it was going\n\n704\n00:35:25.400 --> 00:35:30.140\nto be a triple-header. It was going to be a grand slam home run. And it was\n\n705\n00:35:30.140 --> 00:35:31.640\nthree million people a\n\n706\n00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:37.220\nyear, came through the aquarium and changed the dynamics of the whole city of\n\n707\n00:35:37.220 --> 00:35:38.440\nAtlanta and the state\n\n708\n00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:44.570\nof Georgia. And the same way, kind of intuitively, I knew this was going to\n\n709\n00:35:44.570 --> 00:35:45.960\nwork. Now, one of the\n\n710\n00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:49.920\nthings that's interesting, Bernie, is that if you wouldn't have gotten fired at\n\n711\n00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:50.520\nHandy Dan,\n\n712\n00:35:50.520 --> 00:35:55.760\nthis would never happen, right? Oh, Sandy Siegelov, God rest his soul, really\n\n713\n00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:57.160\ndid something great for\n\n714\n00:35:57.160 --> 00:36:04.800\nme. And my wife, Billy, happened to run into Sandy Siegelov somewhere. And in\n\n715\n00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:05.800\nher own style,\n\n716\n00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:12.180\nshe said to him, \"Sandy, we have so much to thank you for God bless you for\n\n717\n00:36:12.180 --> 00:36:13.640\nwhat you did for us.\"\n\n718\n00:36:13.640 --> 00:36:19.400\nAnd he looked at her like she was crazy. And she just carried it on, \"Thank you\n\n719\n00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:20.520\n, Sandy. We would not\n\n720\n00:36:20.520 --> 00:36:25.880\nbe anything what we are today if it wasn't for you.\" And so that was a lucky\n\n721\n00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:27.320\nbreak. You know, that's\n\n722\n00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:32.540\none of the things in life in the book that I talk about, failure. I think that\n\n723\n00:36:32.540 --> 00:36:34.120\neverybody has a failure\n\n724\n00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:38.910\nsomewhere along the line and how they recover makes the difference in their\n\n725\n00:36:38.910 --> 00:36:40.360\nlives. Some people\n\n726\n00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:45.680\ndon't ever recover. Keep thinking about, you know, why do they do it? Who can\n\n727\n00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:47.720\nthey blame? And that\n\n728\n00:36:47.720 --> 00:36:53.680\nthey spend their rest of their lives blaming somebody. And my theory is just\n\n729\n00:36:53.680 --> 00:36:54.360\nmove on,\n\n730\n00:36:54.360 --> 00:37:01.000\nmove on and do what you do best and life will turn out to be a better life.\n\n731\n00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.840\nThat's a good theory, Bernie. But, you know, tell us honestly, how did you feel\n\n732\n00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:05.320\nwhen you got\n\n733\n00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.440\nyour butt canned? I mean, you know, I mean, were you thinking, \"Oh, I'm just\n\n734\n00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:09.800\ngoing to move on.\" And,\n\n735\n00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:13.400\nyou know, things are going to be great. What was it really like?\n\n736\n00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:19.480\nNo, it takes time. It doesn't. I was stunned. I mean, I had never been fired in\n\n737\n00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:19.880\nmy life.\n\n738\n00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:24.600\nAnd I was running a good company. We were making lots of money. And it was no\n\n739\n00:37:24.600 --> 00:37:25.640\nreason for me to be\n\n740\n00:37:25.640 --> 00:37:30.250\nfired if I had stolen money or had done something, then you say, \"Well, you\n\n741\n00:37:30.250 --> 00:37:31.960\ndeserved it.\" But I didn't\n\n742\n00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:38.620\ndeserve it. I mean, and an author didn't and Ron Brill didn't. And here we were\n\n743\n00:37:38.620 --> 00:37:39.640\njust out on the\n\n744\n00:37:39.640 --> 00:37:46.990\nstreet. And it took me several weeks to get over it. And finally, you know, Ken\n\n745\n00:37:46.990 --> 00:37:47.640\nLangone,\n\n746\n00:37:47.640 --> 00:37:52.200\nyou know, that famous call where he said, \"You know, you've just been hitting\n\n747\n00:37:52.200 --> 00:37:52.760\nthe ass with a\n\n748\n00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:59.540\ngolden horseshoe.\" I began to realize that this idea was a great idea. And I\n\n749\n00:37:59.540 --> 00:38:01.480\nwanted to expand on\n\n750\n00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:06.920\nit and do something with it. And so there's a lot of things. But the truth is,\n\n751\n00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:08.920\nat one point,\n\n752\n00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:14.680\nI had to put Sandy Cigolo off a way and compartmentalize him into a part of my\n\n753\n00:38:14.680 --> 00:38:15.800\nbrain that I didn't want\n\n754\n00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:21.960\nto go back to, you know, I hated him. I despised him. And I had to not let that\n\n755\n00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:24.040\novercome my good\n\n756\n00:38:24.040 --> 00:38:30.190\njudgment and stop me from, you know, doing what I could do best. So you pick\n\n757\n00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:31.800\nyourself up off the mat,\n\n758\n00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:36.860\nyou get back in the ring and you raise money, you build the store that you didn\n\n759\n00:38:36.860 --> 00:38:37.800\n't have a name for\n\n760\n00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:43.260\nfor 30 days before you opened. And you have your grand opening, you know, what\n\n761\n00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:44.120\nwas the initial\n\n762\n00:38:44.120 --> 00:38:47.600\nreaction? Well, there's something we didn't do in the book. I didn't tell\n\n763\n00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:48.920\nanybody. But we had a\n\n764\n00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:54.710\ngrand, we had an opening ad, a double truck page, you know, two pages of Home\n\n765\n00:38:54.710 --> 00:38:55.800\nDepot ad in the\n\n766\n00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.350\nAtlanta Journal Constitution. The day that we were supposed to open, we opened\n\n767\n00:39:00.350 --> 00:39:01.160\non a Thursday,\n\n768\n00:39:01.160 --> 00:39:08.200\nremember, they left the ad out of the paper. It wasn't there. So we had no ad.\n\n769\n00:39:08.200 --> 00:39:08.600\nThere we are\n\n770\n00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:12.690\nwith this big store. Nobody knew what the hell it was. And what is it? A\n\n771\n00:39:12.690 --> 00:39:13.800\ntrained depot, no one\n\n772\n00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:20.700\nto have a clue. And nobody came. And rather than call a publisher and just to\n\n773\n00:39:20.700 --> 00:39:22.120\nream him, I called\n\n774\n00:39:22.120 --> 00:39:26.890\nthem up and I just said, you know, in a very subtle little voice, you just\n\n775\n00:39:26.890 --> 00:39:28.280\neffectively put us\n\n776\n00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:33.790\nout of business and you put like 120 people out of business. And he said, what\n\n777\n00:39:33.790 --> 00:39:35.240\ndid I do? And I said,\n\n778\n00:39:35.240 --> 00:39:40.770\nhow you left the ad out? He said, Oh my God, I don't believe it. And because I\n\n779\n00:39:40.770 --> 00:39:41.880\n'd embrace him\n\n780\n00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:46.840\nand go after him and call him every name under the sun, he gave us the back\n\n781\n00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:47.960\npage in the front\n\n782\n00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:55.880\nsection for one year. We could never buy that. And that became a very important\n\n783\n00:39:55.880 --> 00:39:56.680\npart of our\n\n784\n00:39:56.680 --> 00:40:02.920\nsuccess, not treating people like animals and being reasonable with people and\n\n785\n00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:03.800\ntrying to,\n\n786\n00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:08.290\nyou know, that was as important as anything we ever did. And so we had the back\n\n787\n00:40:08.290 --> 00:40:09.640\npage. And from\n\n788\n00:40:09.640 --> 00:40:15.810\nthat point on, people started to come in and they would tell, you know, I would\n\n789\n00:40:15.810 --> 00:40:16.920\nsee somebody,\n\n790\n00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:21.720\nsomebody coming in and I would say, where are you from? And I'd say Athens. I\n\n791\n00:40:21.720 --> 00:40:23.400\nsay Athens. That's a\n\n792\n00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:29.030\ntwo hour drive in Atlanta. What are you doing here? Well, my cousin was in here\n\n793\n00:40:29.030 --> 00:40:29.560\nand told me\n\n794\n00:40:29.560 --> 00:40:35.480\nthat this is the best place and prices are unbelievable. And I drove down with\n\n795\n00:40:35.480 --> 00:40:36.040\nmy truck\n\n796\n00:40:36.040 --> 00:40:42.980\nand we're filling our truck up. And so I knew were successful. That was the day\n\n797\n00:40:42.980 --> 00:40:43.560\nI knew were\n\n798\n00:40:43.560 --> 00:40:47.380\nsuccessful. That's interesting. But you know, when you you didn't have that\n\n799\n00:40:47.380 --> 00:40:48.760\noriginal ad that you'd\n\n800\n00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:54.200\nbought. So the customers don't show up. And you're sitting there in this huge\n\n801\n00:40:54.200 --> 00:40:55.480\nstore with all this\n\n802\n00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:59.790\ninventory. You've gone to the banks, you've done all this. What was the\n\n803\n00:40:59.790 --> 00:41:01.480\nsoundtrack going on in your\n\n804\n00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:06.690\nmind? What just happened? Well, I said that my wife didn't let me near erase it\n\n805\n00:41:06.690 --> 00:41:09.560\n. I mean,\n\n806\n00:41:09.560 --> 00:41:15.990\nit was it was a horror story. But you know, we overcame it. And just like I\n\n807\n00:41:15.990 --> 00:41:17.320\nsaid, you just\n\n808\n00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:19.720\ncompartmentalizing, you move on.\n\n809\n00:41:19.720 --> 00:41:28.680\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Bernie Marcus in just a\n\n810\n00:41:28.680 --> 00:41:29.800\nmoment. As you've\n\n811\n00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:33.980\nheard us talk about Bernie co-founded the Home Depot with Arthur Blank and Ken\n\n812\n00:41:33.980 --> 00:41:35.080\nLangone. Now Ken\n\n813\n00:41:35.080 --> 00:41:40.440\nis a mentor of mine and a truly special person. And there's a lot you can learn\n\n814\n00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:41.400\nfrom Ken about how\n\n815\n00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:45.430\nto show up for people around you and be the leader people want to follow. We\n\n816\n00:41:45.430 --> 00:41:46.600\nneed to step out of our\n\n817\n00:41:46.600 --> 00:41:51.600\nown bodies for a moment and say, okay, I'm going into the body of that kid that\n\n818\n00:41:51.600 --> 00:41:52.360\n's over there in the\n\n819\n00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:56.120\ngarden department or that kid that's over there in the paint department. And I\n\n820\n00:41:56.120 --> 00:41:57.400\n'm going to try and\n\n821\n00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:01.320\nvisualize what he's going through right this minute. And when you use empathy,\n\n822\n00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:02.360\nwhen you use\n\n823\n00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:06.980\na sense of compassion, and you let that person know that they really matter,\n\n824\n00:42:06.980 --> 00:42:08.040\nthat they're precious\n\n825\n00:42:08.040 --> 00:42:11.270\nto you. And more importantly, they're precious to what you're trying to\n\n826\n00:42:11.270 --> 00:42:13.320\naccomplish. And you share\n\n827\n00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:17.610\nthat successful. You let them go home feeling they've accomplished something\n\n828\n00:42:17.610 --> 00:42:18.520\nthat day too.\n\n829\n00:42:18.520 --> 00:42:22.920\nYou turn that person on that way, David. It's a force that can't be stopped.\n\n830\n00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:27.320\nMy entire conversation with Ken is full of terrific insights like this. So\n\n831\n00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:28.600\nscroll back in the feed\n\n832\n00:42:28.600 --> 00:42:33.400\nand give it a listen. It's episode 89 here on How Leaders Lead.\n\n833\n00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:42.680\nYou know, in retail, Bernie, you know this better. Anybody, you got to try new\n\n834\n00:42:42.680 --> 00:42:43.000\nthings.\n\n835\n00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:48.280\nAnd you're known for being someone who's confronted failure. You're not afraid\n\n836\n00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:48.920\nof failure.\n\n837\n00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:53.480\nYou have that mindset. But how do you spread that if you're a leader? How do\n\n838\n00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:54.280\nyou spread that\n\n839\n00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:57.880\nacross your organization? So you get people taking some risks.\n\n840\n00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:04.630\nDoing it yourself. In other words, don't tell them, do it. If I would be in the\n\n841\n00:43:04.630 --> 00:43:05.320\nstore,\n\n842\n00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:11.560\nthere would be six or seven people around me walking around me. And I would see\n\n843\n00:43:11.560 --> 00:43:12.760\na customer\n\n844\n00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:18.310\ndown the aisle. I would leave them and take care of the customer. I set the\n\n845\n00:43:18.310 --> 00:43:19.080\nexample.\n\n846\n00:43:19.080 --> 00:43:26.020\nSo after a while, if there was a customer down there, people would split off\n\n847\n00:43:26.020 --> 00:43:26.520\nand take care of\n\n848\n00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:31.390\nthe customer, leave me by myself, which is what I wanted them to do. I didn't\n\n849\n00:43:31.390 --> 00:43:32.280\nwant them to be\n\n850\n00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:36.760\naround me. I wanted them to be around the customer. So it's by setting the\n\n851\n00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:37.320\nexample.\n\n852\n00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:43.870\nAnd if you set the example enough times, people say, if he could do it, I can\n\n853\n00:43:43.870 --> 00:43:45.240\ndo it. And they do it.\n\n854\n00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:51.320\nYou know, I read where you spent 80% of your time talking about the things that\n\n855\n00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:52.360\nwent wrong or could\n\n856\n00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:57.240\nbe better. How did you balance that with people's innate desire to be\n\n857\n00:43:57.240 --> 00:43:58.440\nrecognized?\n\n858\n00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:03.480\nWell, you do both. And listen, people who would do a good job, you always have\n\n859\n00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:04.920\nto reward them for it.\n\n860\n00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:11.500\nAnd the key is you got to be able to balance it. Now, sometimes I would go too\n\n861\n00:44:11.500 --> 00:44:13.320\nfar. And I would\n\n862\n00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:18.010\nknow it where I would criticize what they were doing and not give them enough\n\n863\n00:44:18.010 --> 00:44:18.840\ncredit for what\n\n864\n00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:23.530\nthey were doing right. And it would cause me to have to call them back on the\n\n865\n00:44:23.530 --> 00:44:24.920\nphone and apologize\n\n866\n00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:30.120\nand say, by the way, I think you're doing a great job. Don't, you know, when I\n\n867\n00:44:30.120 --> 00:44:31.800\nwas critical of you,\n\n868\n00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:36.360\ndon't take it to heart and don't think I hate your for it. And they like the\n\n869\n00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:37.400\nfact that I get\n\n870\n00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:42.100\nadmitted, I made a mistake. Think about this a second. I don't know a\n\n871\n00:44:42.100 --> 00:44:44.120\npolitician anywhere\n\n872\n00:44:44.120 --> 00:44:51.390\nthat has the ability to say I made a mistake. Most CEOs can't get it out of\n\n873\n00:44:51.390 --> 00:44:52.520\ntheir mouths.\n\n874\n00:44:53.160 --> 00:44:58.520\nThey can't say I made a mistake. Making a mistake is the simplest thing in the\n\n875\n00:44:58.520 --> 00:44:59.880\nworld. And admitting\n\n876\n00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:04.920\nto it is the simplest thing in the world. And it cherishes people around\n\n877\n00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.480\ntremendously. It changes\n\n878\n00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:13.430\nthe way they think. It changes how they'll deal with you. People just can't do\n\n879\n00:45:13.430 --> 00:45:14.040\nit.\n\n880\n00:45:14.040 --> 00:45:17.230\nAnd you know, Bernie, what's so obvious to me, I can see you going into the\n\n881\n00:45:17.230 --> 00:45:18.280\nstore and somebody is\n\n882\n00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:23.480\nnot done what you wanted to do. And you're, you're so passionate. You go crazy\n\n883\n00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:24.840\non this, but you seem\n\n884\n00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:28.690\nto be a guy with you after it's all said done, you're driving to the next store\n\n885\n00:45:28.690 --> 00:45:29.480\n, you're going to\n\n886\n00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:35.000\nthe next place, you reflect on that and go, Oh, I better make that phone call.\n\n887\n00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.080\nYeah, it's just,\n\n888\n00:45:37.080 --> 00:45:42.750\nit's people. It's how do you want to be treated? My God, how would I want to be\n\n889\n00:45:42.750 --> 00:45:44.040\ntreated David?\n\n890\n00:45:44.600 --> 00:45:49.400\nI would not want to be treated that way where people took me for granted.\n\n891\n00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:50.040\nNumber one,\n\n892\n00:45:50.040 --> 00:45:57.380\ncriticized me unfairly. Number two, and didn't explain why they criticized me.\n\n893\n00:45:57.380 --> 00:45:58.600\nThat's a big deal.\n\n894\n00:45:58.600 --> 00:46:04.040\nIf I if I said they did it wrong, now I'd have to explain what they could have\n\n895\n00:46:04.040 --> 00:46:05.400\ndone and how they\n\n896\n00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:10.130\nshould have done it and get into a dialogue with them. And then after a while,\n\n897\n00:46:10.130 --> 00:46:11.080\nthey would say,\n\n898\n00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:16.670\nI should have thought about that myself. If you make a dumb mistake, as long as\n\n899\n00:46:16.670 --> 00:46:17.320\nit's honest,\n\n900\n00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:25.170\nand it was a judgment thing, just correct it, just make it right and don't\n\n901\n00:46:25.170 --> 00:46:26.360\ndwell on it.\n\n902\n00:46:26.360 --> 00:46:33.820\nYou know, today you think about covering your ass. It's in government work, in\n\n903\n00:46:33.820 --> 00:46:35.320\nbusiness,\n\n904\n00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:40.710\nit's the same thing. People cover their ass and they cover up the stupidest\n\n905\n00:46:40.710 --> 00:46:41.640\ndumbest things\n\n906\n00:46:41.640 --> 00:46:47.930\nand it costs a ton of money. In the final analysis, they spend more money on\n\n907\n00:46:47.930 --> 00:46:49.800\nthe lie than they would\n\n908\n00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:55.440\nhave on something that was beneficial. And they keep doing it and they don't\n\n909\n00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.600\nunderstand how\n\n910\n00:46:56.600 --> 00:47:01.830\ndestructive it is to a business and destructive for them because they're not\n\n911\n00:47:01.830 --> 00:47:03.560\nhonest with themselves\n\n912\n00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:09.320\nand they're really basically lying and cheating by not telling the truth.\n\n913\n00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:14.040\nBernie, you know, one of the things that's interesting to me is that, you know,\n\n914\n00:47:14.040 --> 00:47:15.320\nyou start out in this\n\n915\n00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:21.090\nbig store and you're taking the 1-800 Bin Hill calls yourself, but now Home\n\n916\n00:47:21.090 --> 00:47:23.240\nDepot, well over 2000\n\n917\n00:47:23.240 --> 00:47:29.170\nstores, hundreds of thousands of associates, how did you being the hands-on\n\n918\n00:47:29.170 --> 00:47:31.320\nentrepreneur that you are?\n\n919\n00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:37.800\nHow did you scale Home Depot? Because you couldn't take all those 1-800 Bin\n\n920\n00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:38.040\nHill\n\n921\n00:47:38.040 --> 00:47:42.760\nnumbers. I mean, how'd you scale that? You know, you put in enough systems and\n\n922\n00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:43.720\nyou train enough\n\n923\n00:47:43.720 --> 00:47:49.520\npeople and it all has to do with training. It all has to do with spreading the\n\n924\n00:47:49.520 --> 00:47:50.280\nculture\n\n925\n00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:55.930\nbefore somebody has an ability to handle a Ben Hill call. They have to\n\n926\n00:47:55.930 --> 00:47:57.240\nunderstand how important\n\n927\n00:47:57.240 --> 00:48:03.560\nthat role is, that it's not just a job, that it's a career, and that they have\n\n928\n00:48:03.560 --> 00:48:04.440\nto understand that\n\n929\n00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:10.350\ntheir part of their career is making that customer happy. And so when you get\n\n930\n00:48:10.350 --> 00:48:12.120\npeople that do that\n\n931\n00:48:12.120 --> 00:48:17.460\nand you have to scale it, of course, today, I mean, there's like 550,000 people\n\n932\n00:48:17.460 --> 00:48:19.320\nworking at Home Depot.\n\n933\n00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:23.760\nI mean, think about how many Ben Hill calls we get a day. I mean, probably\n\n934\n00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:24.440\nthousands,\n\n935\n00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:31.940\nall over the country in Guam and Honolulu, in Mexico, in Canada. And how do you\n\n936\n00:48:31.940 --> 00:48:33.640\nget that? How do you\n\n937\n00:48:33.640 --> 00:48:41.420\nhandle it? Well, fortunately for me, Frankly followed Nardelli and he started\n\n938\n00:48:41.420 --> 00:48:42.760\nto work on it and\n\n939\n00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:49.970\nCraig Manier took it over and now Ted is now doing it and they're all smart as\n\n940\n00:48:49.970 --> 00:48:51.320\nhell. And they all\n\n941\n00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:56.220\nthink in terms of how to make life better for a customer. They all have the\n\n942\n00:48:56.220 --> 00:48:57.160\nsame culture.\n\n943\n00:48:57.160 --> 00:49:03.880\nI meet with them a couple of times a year, even now. And I don't talk about\n\n944\n00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:04.920\nsystems. When they tell\n\n945\n00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:08.910\nme the systems they put in, I mean, I don't even believe it. These are things\n\n946\n00:49:08.910 --> 00:49:10.920\nthat star wars type\n\n947\n00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:16.280\nof things. I don't even believe how they do it. The culture is the same. Treat\n\n948\n00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:17.240\ning the customers\n\n949\n00:49:17.240 --> 00:49:22.360\nthe same hasn't changed during the day we started. And you're a, you're a huge\n\n950\n00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:23.160\nlearner. You know,\n\n951\n00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:26.830\nyou really get excited by learning new things. And one of the things I\n\n952\n00:49:26.830 --> 00:49:28.040\nunderstand is you actually\n\n953\n00:49:28.040 --> 00:49:33.560\nspend some time with Sam Walton, who built Walmart. When you two got together,\n\n954\n00:49:33.560 --> 00:49:34.680\nwhat was that like?\n\n955\n00:49:34.680 --> 00:49:39.030\nAnd what was the biggest lesson you learned from him? Well, Sam Wall was the\n\n956\n00:49:39.030 --> 00:49:41.000\nsmartest retailer\n\n957\n00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:45.900\nI've ever met in my life. I mean, he really was brilliant. And he did things\n\n958\n00:49:45.900 --> 00:49:47.320\nthat were way beyond\n\n959\n00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:54.080\nme. He taught me about everyday low prices, not to put things on sale, but to\n\n960\n00:49:54.080 --> 00:49:55.000\nsell them at\n\n961\n00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:59.720\neveryday low prices. There are many things I learned from Sam that I couldn't\n\n962\n00:49:59.720 --> 00:50:00.520\nhave learned\n\n963\n00:50:00.520 --> 00:50:05.270\nfrom other people. The one thing I didn't learn from Sam is philanthropy. He\n\n964\n00:50:05.270 --> 00:50:07.000\nwas not philanthropic.\n\n965\n00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:11.370\nHe didn't give money away, except when it was good for business. In other words\n\n966\n00:50:11.370 --> 00:50:11.960\n, he would do\n\n967\n00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:16.940\nthings for Ben Bill Arkansas. But that was it. And no matter how many\n\n968\n00:50:16.940 --> 00:50:18.760\nconversations we had about\n\n969\n00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:24.680\nit, he wasn't willing to go out of that sphere. He stayed in that sphere. But\n\n970\n00:50:24.680 --> 00:50:25.640\nwhen you talk about\n\n971\n00:50:25.640 --> 00:50:32.580\nretailers, he was smart as hell. You know, I visited Walmart and Bentonville on\n\n972\n00:50:32.580 --> 00:50:33.240\na learning\n\n973\n00:50:33.240 --> 00:50:36.920\nvisit. And you know, I was interested when I walked in the foyer and said,\n\n974\n00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.600\ntoday's stock price is\n\n975\n00:50:38.600 --> 00:50:43.060\nX. Tomorrow is up to you. I just love that because it really got to the\n\n976\n00:50:43.060 --> 00:50:44.440\nownership that I know that\n\n977\n00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:48.520\nyou're such a big believer in. But you know, when did you have that moment,\n\n978\n00:50:48.520 --> 00:50:50.200\nBernie, where you\n\n979\n00:50:50.200 --> 00:50:55.840\nrealize that getting your associates to really have ownership in your company\n\n980\n00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:56.920\nwas going to be\n\n981\n00:50:56.920 --> 00:51:02.510\ncritical to your success? Well, really from the beginning, because I recruited\n\n982\n00:51:02.510 --> 00:51:03.080\npeople\n\n983\n00:51:03.080 --> 00:51:09.880\nfrom all over the country to come to Home Depot when we opened. And people gave\n\n984\n00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:10.200\nup\n\n985\n00:51:10.200 --> 00:51:16.480\nwell-paying jobs. In many cases, I paid them less. But I said to them, made a\n\n986\n00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:18.120\npromise. And I said,\n\n987\n00:51:18.120 --> 00:51:23.200\nwhen author and I get wealthy, you're going to get wealthy along with us. You\n\n988\n00:51:23.200 --> 00:51:24.120\n're going to own a\n\n989\n00:51:24.120 --> 00:51:29.850\npiece of the rocks. From the very beginning, I made that promise to them. And I\n\n990\n00:51:29.850 --> 00:51:31.000\nkept that promise.\n\n991\n00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:35.480\nI obviously know Ken Langone and Bonnie Hill was on our board and they were,\n\n992\n00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:41.640\nyou know, obviously big Home Depoters. But I believe you require your board\n\n993\n00:51:41.640 --> 00:51:42.600\nmembers to spend\n\n994\n00:51:42.600 --> 00:51:47.840\ntime in the stores once a quarter. Now, most leaders keep their board out of\n\n995\n00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:48.520\nthe day to day.\n\n996\n00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.920\nThey try to, you know, bring the people in for the board meeting and instead of\n\n997\n00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:53.560\nthem off, you know,\n\n998\n00:51:53.560 --> 00:51:57.640\nwhat drove your thinking to say, hey, as a board member, I want you out in our\n\n999\n00:51:57.640 --> 00:51:58.360\nstores.\n\n1000\n00:51:58.360 --> 00:52:03.800\nWell, first of all, going back to government controlling boards, every one of\n\n1001\n00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:05.160\nmy board members\n\n1002\n00:52:05.160 --> 00:52:10.200\nowns stock in the company, bought stock in the company. So they had a reason\n\n1003\n00:52:10.200 --> 00:52:11.000\nfor that company\n\n1004\n00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:17.640\nto survive and the company to make it. And so I think that Kenny was very\n\n1005\n00:52:17.640 --> 00:52:20.040\ninstrumental in making\n\n1006\n00:52:20.040 --> 00:52:24.840\nthat change because Kenny was going into the stores. We didn't have to tell him\n\n1007\n00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:26.040\nto do it. He was doing\n\n1008\n00:52:26.040 --> 00:52:31.590\nit. And then we made it part of the policy that every one of the board members\n\n1009\n00:52:31.590 --> 00:52:32.280\nhad to go in the\n\n1010\n00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:37.200\nstores. And we took people that didn't go in the stores and asked them to leave\n\n1011\n00:52:37.200 --> 00:52:37.960\nthe board.\n\n1012\n00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:42.500\nIf they didn't go to stores, didn't know the business, when they came to a\n\n1013\n00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:43.400\nboard meeting,\n\n1014\n00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:49.560\nthey knew what was going on. They had a feel for it. And it was, we didn't just\n\n1015\n00:52:49.560 --> 00:52:50.840\ngive them a paper,\n\n1016\n00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:56.280\ntypical boards, they come for lunch. You know, people check their brains at the\n\n1017\n00:52:56.280 --> 00:52:56.680\ndoor.\n\n1018\n00:52:56.680 --> 00:53:03.260\nAnd these are all entrepreneurial people. And I want to hear what they have to\n\n1019\n00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:03.480\nsay.\n\n1020\n00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:11.320\nAnd I want their input. And most CEOs don't want their input. I know that you\n\n1021\n00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:12.200\n're always thinking\n\n1022\n00:53:12.200 --> 00:53:16.290\nabout the future. Right now you're thinking five years ahead. You know, that's\n\n1023\n00:53:16.290 --> 00:53:17.320\njust the way how you\n\n1024\n00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:22.680\nare. What was your process? Or did you have a process of just intuitive for\n\n1025\n00:53:22.680 --> 00:53:23.320\ncoming up with\n\n1026\n00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:27.210\ngroundbreaking ideas? I mean, how did you make yourself think about the future?\n\n1027\n00:53:27.210 --> 00:53:27.960\nIt just happened\n\n1028\n00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:33.800\nnaturally. That's who I am. I'll tell you why. Because I wasn't bogged down\n\n1029\n00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:35.080\nwith every day\n\n1030\n00:53:35.080 --> 00:53:41.160\nthings that don't interest me. Budgets, you know, things that take my mind away\n\n1031\n00:53:41.160 --> 00:53:42.360\nfrom what I do well.\n\n1032\n00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:48.390\nSo I think the fact that Arthur and I were partners, Arthur took that burden\n\n1033\n00:53:48.390 --> 00:53:49.320\naway from me.\n\n1034\n00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:55.730\nSo all I could think about is how to make it a better marketing company, how to\n\n1035\n00:53:55.730 --> 00:53:56.200\ndo PR,\n\n1036\n00:53:57.000 --> 00:54:01.740\nhow to sell more product, how to be a better merchant. And I didn't have to\n\n1037\n00:54:01.740 --> 00:54:02.600\nworry about\n\n1038\n00:54:02.600 --> 00:54:09.140\nhours and government things that they put the burdens on you. You're writing\n\n1039\n00:54:09.140 --> 00:54:10.360\nreports and I didn't\n\n1040\n00:54:10.360 --> 00:54:15.880\nhave those things. You know, over the years, how did you reinvent Home Depot so\n\n1041\n00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:16.920\nthat you didn't end\n\n1042\n00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:21.950\nup like a Sears or some of these other retailers that were wildly successful at\n\n1043\n00:54:21.950 --> 00:54:23.160\none point, had the\n\n1044\n00:54:23.160 --> 00:54:29.100\nworld by the tail and then they end up dying off. What were the big pivot\n\n1045\n00:54:29.100 --> 00:54:30.040\npoints that you made?\n\n1046\n00:54:30.040 --> 00:54:33.430\nHow did you make sure that didn't happen to Home Depot? Well, if you don't\n\n1047\n00:54:33.430 --> 00:54:34.600\nlearn by watching,\n\n1048\n00:54:34.600 --> 00:54:41.400\nthen you're pretty stupid. I watched the disintegration of Sears Robot. When we\n\n1049\n00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:42.520\nstarted Home Depot,\n\n1050\n00:54:42.520 --> 00:54:49.630\nSears Robot was the place. That was it. Greatest paint supplier in the United\n\n1051\n00:54:49.630 --> 00:54:50.520\nStates. They sold\n\n1052\n00:54:50.520 --> 00:54:55.690\nmore paint than anybody else. And you watch what they did and you watch how\n\n1053\n00:54:55.690 --> 00:54:56.680\nthey were overcome\n\n1054\n00:54:56.680 --> 00:55:03.480\nby bureaucracy, where they were strangled by decision making. It was amazing.\n\n1055\n00:55:03.480 --> 00:55:04.680\nYou know,\n\n1056\n00:55:04.680 --> 00:55:10.390\nif you went to them, and years later, when I left two guys and I was like Es\n\n1057\n00:55:10.390 --> 00:55:12.360\nquire shoe polish,\n\n1058\n00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:17.660\nI ran the company, I did that. I tried to sell Sears Robot. In order to put\n\n1059\n00:55:17.660 --> 00:55:19.240\nshoe polish in their\n\n1060\n00:55:19.240 --> 00:55:25.480\nstore, they went through seven committees. It was painful. One of the things I\n\n1061\n00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:26.440\nlearned is that\n\n1062\n00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:33.420\nbureaucracy kills the company. The author and I had a bathroom between the two\n\n1063\n00:55:33.420 --> 00:55:34.760\noffices. We would\n\n1064\n00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:40.570\nmeet in that little carter and we would make a monumental multi-million dollar\n\n1065\n00:55:40.570 --> 00:55:41.880\ndecision in 20\n\n1066\n00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:46.170\nminutes. We didn't go to committees. We didn't have any of those things. We\n\n1067\n00:55:46.170 --> 00:55:47.160\nlearned from the\n\n1068\n00:55:47.160 --> 00:55:52.200\npeople like Sears Robot that that's what killed them. That's why they could\n\n1069\n00:55:52.200 --> 00:55:53.320\nnever respond to a\n\n1070\n00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:58.280\nlocal situation. They were so bureaucrat, the people at the top were so\n\n1071\n00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:00.280\nisolated from the stores.\n\n1072\n00:56:00.280 --> 00:56:05.490\nI don't think they ever went in this store because we would go in Sears Robot\n\n1073\n00:56:05.490 --> 00:56:06.280\nstores\n\n1074\n00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:11.240\nand they were painful experiences. I mean, they were doing so many things that\n\n1075\n00:56:11.240 --> 00:56:11.720\nwere dumb.\n\n1076\n00:56:12.680 --> 00:56:17.160\nThey didn't know about it in Chicago. They didn't have a clue of what was\n\n1077\n00:56:17.160 --> 00:56:18.760\nhappening in their stores.\n\n1078\n00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:24.430\nThat's how they died. We made it a point that we're going to be in the stores.\n\n1079\n00:56:24.430 --> 00:56:24.920\nWe're going to\n\n1080\n00:56:24.920 --> 00:56:31.100\nknow our business. We learned from their stupidity on how not to do it. Many\n\n1081\n00:56:31.100 --> 00:56:32.760\ncompanies have disappeared\n\n1082\n00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:37.650\noff the face of the earth like AMP. AMP was another company in the grocery\n\n1083\n00:56:37.650 --> 00:56:39.160\nbusiness that\n\n1084\n00:56:39.160 --> 00:56:45.070\ndisappeared many, many years ago for the same reason. Sam Walton had a lot to\n\n1085\n00:56:45.070 --> 00:56:46.280\ndo with that\n\n1086\n00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:52.330\nbecause Sam hated bureaucracy as much as I did. We would sit and talk about\n\n1087\n00:56:52.330 --> 00:56:53.480\nbureaucracy.\n\n1088\n00:56:53.480 --> 00:57:00.680\nSam would say the bureaucrats are like cockroaches. They come out at night when\n\n1089\n00:57:00.680 --> 00:57:01.560\nthe lights are off.\n\n1090\n00:57:01.560 --> 00:57:06.360\nYou turn the light on and there are plenty of cockroaches. You have to keep a\n\n1091\n00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:07.240\nlight on them all\n\n1092\n00:57:07.240 --> 00:57:14.280\nthe time and ferret them out and get rid of them. Even today, every company and\n\n1093\n00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:15.880\nI'm sure home people\n\n1094\n00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:21.590\nhas bureaucracy, but every company has it. If you just got to be aware of it\n\n1095\n00:57:21.590 --> 00:57:24.120\nand bureaucracy hinders\n\n1096\n00:57:24.120 --> 00:57:31.040\nsuccess, I think that the guys that run home people today understand that. The\n\n1097\n00:57:31.040 --> 00:57:33.000\nother thing is\n\n1098\n00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:37.530\nthinking in terms of what tomorrow is going to be like. You can't just live in\n\n1099\n00:57:37.530 --> 00:57:37.960\ntoday.\n\n1100\n00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:44.200\nYou have to think about where you want to be. Whenever I meet with home people,\n\n1101\n00:57:44.200 --> 00:57:48.840\nI always say to them, \"Where do you want to be five years from now? What are\n\n1102\n00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.240\nyou going to look\n\n1103\n00:57:49.240 --> 00:57:53.140\nlike? What are the stores that look like? What kind of service are you going to\n\n1104\n00:57:53.140 --> 00:57:54.040\nhave five years\n\n1105\n00:57:54.040 --> 00:57:59.980\nfrom now?\" Sure enough, they do think about it and they are now thinking in\n\n1106\n00:57:59.980 --> 00:58:01.400\nterms of five years\n\n1107\n00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:04.760\nand ten years out and making the right kind of investments.\n\n1108\n00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:09.410\nYou know, I want to shift gears for a minute and take you way back. I'm almost\n\n1109\n00:58:09.410 --> 00:58:11.320\npositive that you are\n\n1110\n00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:19.000\nthe first gang member that I've ever interviewed. Tell me about that part of\n\n1111\n00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:20.120\nyour childhood, Verdi.\n\n1112\n00:58:20.120 --> 00:58:25.230\nWell, you know, of course, I was a kid 11, 12 years old. I lived in a black\n\n1113\n00:58:25.230 --> 00:58:26.440\nneighborhood\n\n1114\n00:58:27.160 --> 00:58:34.510\nand it was either your father you got destroyed. I fought back. I fought back.\n\n1115\n00:58:34.510 --> 00:58:35.080\nThe leader of the\n\n1116\n00:58:35.080 --> 00:58:40.480\ngang was a guy who beat the crap out of me every day, every day. I would come\n\n1117\n00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:41.480\nback for more\n\n1118\n00:58:41.480 --> 00:58:47.640\nuntil one day. He said to me, \"You know what? You joined the gang.\" He actually\n\n1119\n00:58:47.640 --> 00:58:48.760\ndid put me in a\n\n1120\n00:58:48.760 --> 00:58:54.070\ngang and they actually saved my life a couple of times. I literally saved my\n\n1121\n00:58:54.070 --> 00:58:55.720\nlife. I don't tell\n\n1122\n00:58:55.720 --> 00:59:00.920\nthe story. I'll give you a great story. When I was with two guys, we bought a\n\n1123\n00:59:00.920 --> 00:59:02.520\nstore in the middle of\n\n1124\n00:59:02.520 --> 00:59:07.920\nAtlanta, downtown Atlanta. And on opening day, I was going up the escalator\n\n1125\n00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:09.240\nwith the Chairman\n\n1126\n00:59:09.240 --> 00:59:16.570\nof the Board, the President, and coming down was this guy who saw me and yelled\n\n1127\n00:59:16.570 --> 00:59:17.960\nout, \"Verdi,\n\n1128\n00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:23.730\nVerdi.\" And it was one of my gang members, the leader of the gang back. And I\n\n1129\n00:59:23.730 --> 00:59:25.000\nwent up and the\n\n1130\n00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:28.710\nChairman turned to me and said, \"What was that? What was that?\" And I said, \"No\n\n1131\n00:59:28.710 --> 00:59:29.320\n, it's something.\n\n1132\n00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:33.320\nI'll just let me take care of it.\" I went up and I went down. I met him at the\n\n1133\n00:59:33.320 --> 00:59:34.680\nbottom. He was wearing\n\n1134\n00:59:34.680 --> 00:59:40.300\na raincoat. It was in June. And I said, \"What are you doing here?\" I said, \"I'm\n\n1135\n00:59:40.300 --> 00:59:41.160\na vice president\n\n1136\n00:59:41.160 --> 00:59:45.810\nhere of marketing.\" And he said, \"You working here?\" I said, \"Yeah.\" He says, \"\n\n1137\n00:59:45.810 --> 00:59:46.600\nWe robbing this\n\n1138\n00:59:46.600 --> 00:59:49.880\nplane flying.\" He said, \"I'm going to be a part of the other here.\" \"We're\n\n1139\n00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:51.080\nrobbing this place.\"\n\n1140\n00:59:51.080 --> 00:59:54.440\nHe said, \"I didn't know you here. We'll call him off right away.\" And he did.\n\n1141\n00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:55.480\nHe calls them all out\n\n1142\n00:59:55.480 --> 01:00:01.990\nin the store. So he came back. It came back to you in spades. That's\n\n1143\n01:00:01.990 --> 01:00:05.160\nunbelievable. Your parents were\n\n1144\n01:00:05.160 --> 01:00:10.190\nRussian immigrants. And you grew up very poor. In what way did those early\n\n1145\n01:00:10.190 --> 01:00:11.720\nchildhood struggles\n\n1146\n01:00:11.720 --> 01:00:16.460\nreally help you become the kind of leader you are today? Well, the first thing\n\n1147\n01:00:16.460 --> 01:00:17.480\nI knew is I never\n\n1148\n01:00:17.480 --> 01:00:22.810\nwant to be in the situation where you go hungry or I couldn't provide for my\n\n1149\n01:00:22.810 --> 01:00:24.920\nfamily. And my thoughts\n\n1150\n01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:30.860\nwere always to be able to be independent financially. And that was what drove\n\n1151\n01:00:30.860 --> 01:00:32.600\nme. Never to be in a\n\n1152\n01:00:32.600 --> 01:00:37.780\nsituation that my parents were in. My father barely made a living. And if it\n\n1153\n01:00:37.780 --> 01:00:39.240\nwasn't for my\n\n1154\n01:00:39.240 --> 01:00:44.980\nbrothers breaking their backs and working when they were working in university,\n\n1155\n01:00:44.980 --> 01:00:45.560\nwe're working\n\n1156\n01:00:45.560 --> 01:00:50.000\nand breaking their assets, bringing money home. We wouldn't have eaten in the\n\n1157\n01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.200\nhouse. I just never\n\n1158\n01:00:52.200 --> 01:00:57.010\nwanted to be in that kind of situation. And I never wanted my family to be in\n\n1159\n01:00:57.010 --> 01:00:58.360\nthat situation.\n\n1160\n01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:05.080\nSo my key was always to be independent. And I didn't end any people on how they\n\n1161\n01:01:05.080 --> 01:01:06.200\nmade money.\n\n1162\n01:01:06.200 --> 01:01:11.240\nI wanted to know how they made money. And so my thing when I would see a guy\n\n1163\n01:01:11.240 --> 01:01:12.040\nwith a big house,\n\n1164\n01:01:12.040 --> 01:01:17.880\nwith a big porch, how to handle this guy making his money. And I would spend my\n\n1165\n01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:18.440\nlife\n\n1166\n01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:23.480\nmeeting with people who were successful and learning from them how they did it\n\n1167\n01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:25.320\nand trying to\n\n1168\n01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:32.290\ninculcate it into my own life wherever I could. And they shared how they did it\n\n1169\n01:01:32.290 --> 01:01:34.280\nwith me. And it\n\n1170\n01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:39.550\nbecame a part of who I am. You know, Bernie, it became a part of who you are.\n\n1171\n01:01:39.550 --> 01:01:40.360\nAnd you've had\n\n1172\n01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:45.290\nenormous success. And one of the things that you're a big believer in is giving\n\n1173\n01:01:45.290 --> 01:01:46.040\nback. And\n\n1174\n01:01:46.040 --> 01:01:52.650\nyou talk about the concept of entrepreneurial philanthropy. And the fact that\n\n1175\n01:01:52.650 --> 01:01:53.560\nyou really view\n\n1176\n01:01:53.560 --> 01:01:58.680\nphilanthropy as a business. Why are you so passionate about that concept?\n\n1177\n01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:03.960\nWell, because number one, I think about all the great things that have happened\n\n1178\n01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:05.160\nbecause of Home Depot.\n\n1179\n01:02:05.160 --> 01:02:12.170\nI say Home Depot because of the money that Home Depot allowed me to give away.\n\n1180\n01:02:12.170 --> 01:02:13.400\nThe Marcus Autism\n\n1181\n01:02:13.400 --> 01:02:19.630\nCenter, 40 years ago, we started that center when people didn't know what\n\n1182\n01:02:19.630 --> 01:02:22.680\nautism was. And I stayed\n\n1183\n01:02:22.680 --> 01:02:27.750\ninvolved with it for about 20 some odd years and put millions of dollars into\n\n1184\n01:02:27.750 --> 01:02:29.240\nit. And today,\n\n1185\n01:02:29.240 --> 01:02:35.830\nthe Marcus Autism Center is the biggest in the world. I also started Autism Spe\n\n1186\n01:02:35.830 --> 01:02:37.400\naks for the same\n\n1187\n01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:42.430\nreason because people didn't know what autism was. And I started Autism Speaks\n\n1188\n01:02:42.430 --> 01:02:44.120\nbecause I wanted\n\n1189\n01:02:44.120 --> 01:02:50.140\npeople to understand that one out of 58 kids, at that time was one out of 58\n\n1190\n01:02:50.140 --> 01:02:51.160\nkids. Today,\n\n1191\n01:02:51.160 --> 01:02:56.440\nit's one out of 38 children are autistic. It may know there was a view of black\n\n1192\n01:02:56.440 --> 01:02:58.440\nor white or yellow\n\n1193\n01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:05.640\nor richer poor. It's one out of 38 kids. So I think at that time, if I hadn't\n\n1194\n01:03:05.640 --> 01:03:06.520\nstayed involved,\n\n1195\n01:03:06.520 --> 01:03:12.480\nthat Marcus Autism Center wouldn't be where they are today. Today, they have a\n\n1196\n01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:12.920\ndevice\n\n1197\n01:03:13.720 --> 01:03:18.680\nthat will be on the market shortly. It's been approved by the FDA already where\n\n1198\n01:03:18.680 --> 01:03:19.080\nthey can\n\n1199\n01:03:19.080 --> 01:03:23.770\ndetermine that a child is autistic at the age of three months. Think about that\n\n1200\n01:03:23.770 --> 01:03:25.480\n. At the age of\n\n1201\n01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:30.530\nthree months, if you start treating that child, you could change the way that\n\n1202\n01:03:30.530 --> 01:03:31.640\nchild is going to\n\n1203\n01:03:31.640 --> 01:03:37.780\nwhat his life is going to be like. Instead of his life being this way, you can\n\n1204\n01:03:37.780 --> 01:03:38.760\nmake it that way.\n\n1205\n01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:43.800\nAnd you're not going to cure it, but you can make it like a better life. But it\n\n1206\n01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:44.680\nwas the fact that\n\n1207\n01:03:44.680 --> 01:03:49.590\nwe got involved with it, that we stayed with it, that we didn't walk away and\n\n1208\n01:03:49.590 --> 01:03:50.680\nwe just arrived at\n\n1209\n01:03:50.680 --> 01:03:55.000\ncheck. Is that what you mean by treating it as a business that you're involved\n\n1210\n01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:55.720\nin whatever you\n\n1211\n01:03:55.720 --> 01:04:00.120\ninvest in, just like you would a business? And stay passionate about it. You\n\n1212\n01:04:00.120 --> 01:04:01.160\nknow, your mom,\n\n1213\n01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:05.000\nas I understand it, always encouraged you to give back. And I got to tell you,\n\n1214\n01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:05.960\nshe'd be so proud of\n\n1215\n01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:11.000\nyou, Bernie. I mean, you and Billy, you guys have given over $2 billion away\n\n1216\n01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:11.960\njust through your own\n\n1217\n01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:17.210\nfoundation. And tell us about the giving pledge and why you join. Well, when\n\n1218\n01:04:17.210 --> 01:04:17.960\nthey call me for\n\n1219\n01:04:17.960 --> 01:04:23.750\nthe giving pledge, I had already committed to giving 90% of what we earned\n\n1220\n01:04:23.750 --> 01:04:25.160\nbefore we leave this\n\n1221\n01:04:25.160 --> 01:04:31.010\nearth. 90% is going to go into a foundation, which will be given away. My kids\n\n1222\n01:04:31.010 --> 01:04:33.000\nare taking care of,\n\n1223\n01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:37.160\nmy kids are going to never have my life. They're not going to have the houses I\n\n1224\n01:04:37.160 --> 01:04:38.360\nhave, unless they\n\n1225\n01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:42.640\nearned it themselves. Of course, we did enough so that they're never going to\n\n1226\n01:04:42.640 --> 01:04:43.560\nstarve to death,\n\n1227\n01:04:43.560 --> 01:04:48.200\nbut I'm not leaving it to my children. They don't deserve it. They didn't, they\n\n1228\n01:04:48.200 --> 01:04:49.160\nreally didn't make\n\n1229\n01:04:49.160 --> 01:04:53.370\nit happen. And I want them to do it for themselves. So if they become\n\n1230\n01:04:53.370 --> 01:04:55.880\nsuccessful, or my grandchildren\n\n1231\n01:04:55.880 --> 01:05:01.070\nbecome successful, it's because I gave my leg up. And then he earned it by\n\n1232\n01:05:01.070 --> 01:05:02.520\nthemselves. But\n\n1233\n01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:09.820\nthe truth is that 90% is better than 50%. And when they came out with the\n\n1234\n01:05:09.820 --> 01:05:11.720\nearnings pledge,\n\n1235\n01:05:11.720 --> 01:05:15.640\nof course, I joined. Why not join? You're already way ahead.\n\n1236\n01:05:15.640 --> 01:05:23.260\nWarren Buffett called me to do it. And I said, sure, Warren, I said, you're\n\n1237\n01:05:23.260 --> 01:05:24.760\ngoing to end up giving\n\n1238\n01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:29.980\nall your money away anyway, which of course he's doing because he had so much\n\n1239\n01:05:29.980 --> 01:05:31.480\nmore to give away.\n\n1240\n01:05:32.200 --> 01:05:37.370\nAnd it's not that easy to give the money away. The way we do it, at least we\n\n1241\n01:05:37.370 --> 01:05:39.080\nfollow it. And we see\n\n1242\n01:05:39.080 --> 01:05:44.370\nthat we get a return on the vested capital, because we watch the results.\n\n1243\n01:05:44.370 --> 01:05:45.240\nWarren is not that\n\n1244\n01:05:45.240 --> 01:05:50.830\ninterested in charity, but he knows that he's going to, he has to give it,\n\n1245\n01:05:50.830 --> 01:05:51.880\neither give it,\n\n1246\n01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:54.920\nor let the government take it and piss away.\n\n1247\n01:05:55.880 --> 01:06:01.370\nYou know, you created a company where one of your former employees said, anyone\n\n1248\n01:06:01.370 --> 01:06:03.160\ncan be anything.\n\n1249\n01:06:03.160 --> 01:06:07.240\nHow do you look at investing in your people and tell me a story how you put\n\n1250\n01:06:07.240 --> 01:06:08.520\nthat core value into\n\n1251\n01:06:08.520 --> 01:06:15.220\naction? Oh, listen, we have so many people that have proven you give them the\n\n1252\n01:06:15.220 --> 01:06:16.440\nrod. They catch the\n\n1253\n01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:23.370\nfish. We have one young lady who started with us at 18. She was a Jamaican,\n\n1254\n01:06:23.370 --> 01:06:25.320\nhardly spoke English.\n\n1255\n01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:31.760\nBut great talent, tremendous talent. And I spotted her in Florida years and\n\n1256\n01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:32.920\nyears ago.\n\n1257\n01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:39.230\nShe was a cashier. And she was never at her desk. She was always out selling\n\n1258\n01:06:39.230 --> 01:06:40.520\nproduct to the\n\n1259\n01:06:40.520 --> 01:06:44.940\ncustomer that they would come through and they bought paint and they didn't buy\n\n1260\n01:06:44.940 --> 01:06:46.200\nbrushes. She would\n\n1261\n01:06:46.200 --> 01:06:50.910\ngo back and get the brushes and leave the cashier. And that's how we discovered\n\n1262\n01:06:50.910 --> 01:06:52.360\nher. People waiting\n\n1263\n01:06:52.360 --> 01:06:57.580\nin line and there was no cashier. And finally, I said, just put her on a damn\n\n1264\n01:06:57.580 --> 01:06:58.920\nfloor and let us sell.\n\n1265\n01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:04.280\nWell, today, she runs all of our stores. Wow.\n\n1266\n01:07:04.280 --> 01:07:13.020\n2,700 stores, 500,000 associates. She runs it. You if you can't tell me of a\n\n1267\n01:07:13.020 --> 01:07:14.360\nbetter area of\n\n1268\n01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:18.620\nsuccess than that, I can't, I can't tell you anything better than that. And I\n\n1269\n01:07:18.620 --> 01:07:19.880\nunderstand when\n\n1270\n01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:23.740\nyou had your team meetings, you'd tell your team members at the end of the\n\n1271\n01:07:23.740 --> 01:07:24.840\nmeetings that you loved\n\n1272\n01:07:24.840 --> 01:07:29.820\nthem. Now, that's not common in most work environments. Well, why did you do it\n\n1273\n01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:30.120\n?\n\n1274\n01:07:30.120 --> 01:07:35.060\nBecause I love them. I love them. I walk in a store. I want to hug everybody.\n\n1275\n01:07:35.060 --> 01:07:36.360\nBecause think about\n\n1276\n01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:40.980\nthe life I live. I could have anything I want. I could do anything I want to do\n\n1277\n01:07:40.980 --> 01:07:42.440\n. It never could\n\n1278\n01:07:42.440 --> 01:07:47.880\nhave happened without Home Depot. You have to have an emotional feeling that\n\n1279\n01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:49.080\nthe people allow that\n\n1280\n01:07:49.080 --> 01:07:55.570\nto happen and continue. The Home Depot continues to be a great company, earns\n\n1281\n01:07:55.570 --> 01:07:56.760\ngreat numbers.\n\n1282\n01:07:56.760 --> 01:08:01.720\nEvery year, the sales of phenomenal, the profits of phenomenal, return to an\n\n1283\n01:08:01.720 --> 01:08:02.440\ninvested capital\n\n1284\n01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:07.000\nof a number. I love the people who run it. I just love them. You know, Frank\n\n1285\n01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:08.360\nBlake had you back at\n\n1286\n01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:13.250\nthe store manager meeting when he became CEO. And they love you too. The o\n\n1287\n01:08:13.250 --> 01:08:15.720\nvation just went on\n\n1288\n01:08:15.720 --> 01:08:21.320\nand on and on. People were cheering for you and everything that you really\n\n1289\n01:08:21.320 --> 01:08:22.200\nrepresent. So,\n\n1290\n01:08:22.200 --> 01:08:28.120\nyou got to love to be loved back. You obviously are that. And this has been so\n\n1291\n01:08:28.120 --> 01:08:29.400\nmuch fun, Bernie,\n\n1292\n01:08:29.400 --> 01:08:32.040\nyou know, talking to you about the business and the way you think. And I want\n\n1293\n01:08:32.040 --> 01:08:32.360\nto have a\n\n1294\n01:08:32.360 --> 01:08:36.470\nlittle bit more fun if you don't mind by doing a lightning round of Q&A. Are\n\n1295\n01:08:36.470 --> 01:08:37.480\nyou ready for this?\n\n1296\n01:08:37.480 --> 01:08:42.440\nYeah, sure. Okay. What's one word others would use to describe you?\n\n1297\n01:08:43.080 --> 01:08:47.870\nAppinulated. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it\n\n1298\n01:08:47.870 --> 01:08:48.440\nbe and why?\n\n1299\n01:08:48.440 --> 01:08:54.170\nGeorge Schultz. If we had a George Schultz now today, it would be the best\n\n1300\n01:08:54.170 --> 01:08:55.240\nthing for this country.\n\n1301\n01:08:55.240 --> 01:09:01.560\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve? Stupidity. What was the last home improvement\n\n1302\n01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:02.680\nproject you took on?\n\n1303\n01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:10.050\nOh my God. Don't even talk about it. I'm not a do-it-your-selfer. And I never,\n\n1304\n01:09:10.050 --> 01:09:11.080\nand I admit it in the book.\n\n1305\n01:09:11.720 --> 01:09:15.640\nAnd I stayed stupid all my life because I wanted to.\n\n1306\n01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:21.790\nI can join that stupid club with you. What's the number of fist fights you\n\n1307\n01:09:21.790 --> 01:09:22.760\nthink you've been in?\n\n1308\n01:09:22.760 --> 01:09:27.320\nWell, up until the time I was 20, it was a lot.\n\n1309\n01:09:27.320 --> 01:09:33.420\nWhat's the word or phrase that comes to mind when you think about the growth of\n\n1310\n01:09:33.420 --> 01:09:34.200\nthe Home Depot?\n\n1311\n01:09:34.200 --> 01:09:39.800\nUnbelievable. What would I hear if I turned on the radio in your car?\n\n1312\n01:09:40.520 --> 01:09:44.200\nTalk shows. What's something about you that few people would know?\n\n1313\n01:09:44.200 --> 01:09:51.330\nI think that my involvement in philanthropy, I think that a lot of people don't\n\n1314\n01:09:51.330 --> 01:09:52.040\nknow how\n\n1315\n01:09:52.040 --> 01:09:57.430\ninvolved on it and how extensive it is that it involves medical and free\n\n1316\n01:09:57.430 --> 01:09:58.440\nenterprise and\n\n1317\n01:09:58.440 --> 01:10:03.720\neducational and Jewish issues. People just don't know how much I'm involved\n\n1318\n01:10:03.720 --> 01:10:04.120\nwith.\n\n1319\n01:10:04.120 --> 01:10:08.280\nThat's the end of the lightning round there, Bernie. Just a few more questions\n\n1320\n01:10:08.280 --> 01:10:08.680\nand I'll let\n\n1321\n01:10:08.680 --> 01:10:12.840\nyou go. You've been so gracious with your time. You've been married to your\n\n1322\n01:10:12.840 --> 01:10:13.960\nwife, Billy, for\n\n1323\n01:10:13.960 --> 01:10:19.080\nalmost 50 years. And I hear there's a particular strategy that you have in your\n\n1324\n01:10:19.080 --> 01:10:19.640\nmarriage that's\n\n1325\n01:10:19.640 --> 01:10:26.040\nhelped you sell more bathtubs at Home Depot. Tell us about it in the underlying\n\n1326\n01:10:26.040 --> 01:10:26.840\nlesson that there\n\n1327\n01:10:26.840 --> 01:10:35.080\nis for us. Never go to bed angry. Ever. In 50 years, we never went to bed angry\n\n1328\n01:10:35.080 --> 01:10:37.080\n. And that saved our\n\n1329\n01:10:37.080 --> 01:10:42.110\nmarriage and made our marriage a good marriage. And I have to tell you, it\n\n1330\n01:10:42.110 --> 01:10:43.160\ncontinues today.\n\n1331\n01:10:43.160 --> 01:10:51.080\nWe still love each other dearly after 50 years. And it's because we don't go to\n\n1332\n01:10:51.080 --> 01:10:52.280\nbed angry.\n\n1333\n01:10:52.280 --> 01:10:57.480\nThe key was taking a bath together, being naked in the bathtub, where you're\n\n1334\n01:10:57.480 --> 01:10:59.080\ndefenseless. And\n\n1335\n01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:06.140\nanything that that was in our minds would come out. And when we left that bath\n\n1336\n01:11:06.140 --> 01:11:06.520\ntub,\n\n1337\n01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:11.840\neverything was out on the table. That's fantastic. And you sold a lot more bath\n\n1338\n01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:12.760\ntubs at Home Depot,\n\n1339\n01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:19.760\nright? Oh my God. When we told that story to the wives of the husbands at Home\n\n1340\n01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:20.760\nDepot,\n\n1341\n01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:26.790\nthe next day there was a run on bathtub. You know, you're such a great storyte\n\n1342\n01:11:26.790 --> 01:11:27.080\nller.\n\n1343\n01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:31.670\nYou always seem to have a great lesson at the end. You know, what was your\n\n1344\n01:11:31.670 --> 01:11:32.360\nprocess\n\n1345\n01:11:32.360 --> 01:11:36.520\nfor disseminating these stories and lessons to your team over the years?\n\n1346\n01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:41.000\nYou know, people don't want to be lecture too. People would rather hear a story\n\n1347\n01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:42.760\n. And so,\n\n1348\n01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:48.680\nthe great storyteller was Ronald Reagan. So I remember one time, Ronald Reagan\n\n1349\n01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:49.400\nasked\n\n1350\n01:11:49.400 --> 01:11:55.010\nGeorge Schultz to write his Fourth of July speech. And George put his whole\n\n1351\n01:11:55.010 --> 01:11:56.040\nmind into it.\n\n1352\n01:11:56.600 --> 01:12:03.770\nRoto speech and gave it to the president. And Ronald Reagan looked at it and\n\n1353\n01:12:03.770 --> 01:12:05.720\nkept circling it.\n\n1354\n01:12:05.720 --> 01:12:12.640\nAnd at the side was his story, story, story. In other words, if you want to\n\n1355\n01:12:12.640 --> 01:12:13.320\nmake a point,\n\n1356\n01:12:13.320 --> 01:12:19.880\ntell a story. People understand stories they don't like to be lecture too.\n\n1357\n01:12:19.880 --> 01:12:24.480\nAbsolutely. And what's the single most important bit of advice you'd give to\n\n1358\n01:12:24.480 --> 01:12:25.560\naspiring leaders?\n\n1359\n01:12:26.440 --> 01:12:31.080\nPassion. You have to have passion for what you do. You can't be\n\n1360\n01:12:31.080 --> 01:12:36.200\ndispassionate. I mean, if you don't have the passion and you don't have the\n\n1361\n01:12:36.200 --> 01:12:37.640\nemotion for it,\n\n1362\n01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:42.280\nit's not going to be successful. Well, Bernie, I have to tell you, I was\n\n1363\n01:12:42.280 --> 01:12:43.320\nlooking forward to this\n\n1364\n01:12:43.320 --> 01:12:48.590\nconversation. And I knew it would be amazing. And it has been. You're an\n\n1365\n01:12:48.590 --> 01:12:49.960\nincredible leader.\n\n1366\n01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:55.080\nThank you. And David, you keep doing what you're doing. Because CEOs need a lot\n\n1367\n01:12:55.080 --> 01:12:55.880\nof work today.\n\n1368\n01:12:56.680 --> 01:13:02.320\nThey need a lot of help. And maybe your books and your lectures will change\n\n1369\n01:13:02.320 --> 01:13:04.680\nsome of their directions.\n\n1370\n01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:11.800\nWell, thank you, my friend. And keep up the great work yourself.\n\n1371\n01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:22.100\nWell, there you have it. Our most bleep-worthy episode ever. But you know what?\n\n1372\n01:13:22.100 --> 01:13:23.720\nYou can't put\n\n1373\n01:13:23.720 --> 01:13:28.280\na filter on Bernie Marcus. And who would want to? He's got so much wisdom from\n\n1374\n01:13:28.280 --> 01:13:28.920\na career that\n\n1375\n01:13:28.920 --> 01:13:33.190\ntruly changed the retail game. But you know, from the very beginning, the Home\n\n1376\n01:13:33.190 --> 01:13:34.120\nDepot succeeded\n\n1377\n01:13:34.120 --> 01:13:37.830\nbecause they were willing to do what was good for the customer. That's how\n\n1378\n01:13:37.830 --> 01:13:39.320\nBernie made decisions.\n\n1379\n01:13:39.320 --> 01:13:44.030\nAnd it wasn't something he talked about. It was something that he did. Taking\n\n1380\n01:13:44.030 --> 01:13:45.480\ncalls from customers\n\n1381\n01:13:45.480 --> 01:13:50.190\ndirectly, walking the floor and talking to customers and assisting them and\n\n1382\n01:13:50.190 --> 01:13:51.400\nhelping them find the\n\n1383\n01:13:51.400 --> 01:13:56.270\nmerchandise that they were looking for. This is a guy who did all kinds of\n\n1384\n01:13:56.270 --> 01:13:57.960\nthings all the time to\n\n1385\n01:13:57.960 --> 01:14:02.760\nmake sure he set the example for making customers happy. To him, it was all\n\n1386\n01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:04.120\nabout cultivating that\n\n1387\n01:14:04.120 --> 01:14:08.360\nrelationship with customers by putting them first. And you know what? You can\n\n1388\n01:14:08.360 --> 01:14:09.560\nmake a huge shift in\n\n1389\n01:14:09.560 --> 01:14:13.470\nyour business when you start asking what's best for your customer. Think about\n\n1390\n01:14:13.470 --> 01:14:14.520\nthis. How often do\n\n1391\n01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:18.590\nyou truly get to see your customers using your product or service? Are there\n\n1392\n01:14:18.590 --> 01:14:19.480\npolicies you need\n\n1393\n01:14:19.480 --> 01:14:24.330\nto change so that they're more in line with what's best for customers? Or hey,\n\n1394\n01:14:24.330 --> 01:14:25.400\nyou might need to do\n\n1395\n01:14:25.400 --> 01:14:30.010\nmore for employees. So they're motivated to serve customers. Take action on\n\n1396\n01:14:30.010 --> 01:14:31.400\nthese big questions this\n\n1397\n01:14:31.400 --> 01:14:35.910\nweek. And I know that you're going to find some real breakthroughs. So do you\n\n1398\n01:14:35.910 --> 01:14:37.320\nwant to know how leaders\n\n1399\n01:14:37.320 --> 01:14:41.360\nlead? What we learned today is that great leaders do what's great for their\n\n1400\n01:14:41.360 --> 01:14:43.800\ncustomers. Coming up next\n\n1401\n01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:48.350\non How leaders lead is Dr. Holly Anderson, one of the world's most renowned\n\n1402\n01:14:48.350 --> 01:14:49.640\ncardiologists and the\n\n1403\n01:14:49.640 --> 01:14:54.130\ncreator and driver of the hands only movement for CPR. You got to love what you\n\n1404\n01:14:54.130 --> 01:14:55.240\n're doing. If you're\n\n1405\n01:14:55.240 --> 01:15:00.290\npassing about a message, you find a way to make it work. And we're all busy.\n\n1406\n01:15:00.290 --> 01:15:01.560\nBut if you're busy\n\n1407\n01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:05.200\ndoing things you don't like, then you're busy and unhappy. But if you find\n\n1408\n01:15:05.200 --> 01:15:06.680\nthings that are important\n\n1409\n01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:10.260\nand these things are important to me, then you find ways to get them done. And\n\n1410\n01:15:10.260 --> 01:15:11.080\nyou find people who\n\n1411\n01:15:11.080 --> 01:15:15.050\nare also willing to help you get these done. So be sure to come back again next\n\n1412\n01:15:15.050 --> 01:15:15.960\nweek to hear our\n\n1413\n01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:20.620\nentire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of How\n\n1414\n01:15:20.620 --> 01:15:21.720\nleaders lead where\n\n1415\n01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:25.410\nevery Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best\n\n1416\n01:15:25.410 --> 01:15:26.920\nleaders in the world.\n\n1417\n01:15:26.920 --> 01:15:30.970\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1418\n01:15:30.970 --> 01:15:32.360\napply to your business\n\n1419\n01:15:32.360 --> 01:15:34.840\nso that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1420\n01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:44.840\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1421\n01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:54.840\n[BLANK_AUDIO]","

David Novak 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. Today, I'm joined by Bernie Marcus, the co founder of the Home Depot at 93 years young, Bernie is an absolute icon, the Home Depot broke the mold for retail and is continuing to succeed where lots of other retailers are struggling. And that's because of the foundation that Bernie said. And you can really understand why when you spend time with Bernie, from the very beginning, he made decisions based on what's good for the customer. Because for Bernie, customer service isn't just a transaction, it's a relationship. If you want to succeed in your work, you've got to take care of your customer, and do right by them. And this conversation is gonna get your wheels turning with ideas to do just that. And it's gonna have you laughing because I got to tell you, Bernie has got some incredible stories, and he does not hold back. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, the one and only Bernie, Marcus.

And Bernie, here you are, you're you're 93 years old, and you just released a brand new book, kick up some dust. Why did you feel it was the time for you to tackle this project?

Bernie Marcus 1:33

Well, frankly, a lot of it had to do with Coronavirus. I was locked up the way everybody else was. I'm a active kind of a guy, and I wanted to do things. And what this then write a book. And I found Catherine Lewis, who is great. I'm not a good writer, I speak well, but I don't write well. And Catherine was perfect for me. Because she was able to take my words, put them in a book. And I think that the book is basically what I think and how I feel. And frankly, I have not spent most of my life thinking back. And a lot of it was a revelation to me, because I always even at 93 I'm thinking about five years from now where where I think things should be and where I'd like to be. But you know, my career has really been a blessing to me. I'm lucky I met the people I have Ken Langone was critical in my life. Arthur Blank was critical. Pat Barrow was critical. George Schultz was critical. There are so many people who form the basis of who I am. And every one of them taught me something that I lacked before. And it just showed that anybody who thinks they're the smartest guy in the world, they're probably the dumbest guy in the world.

David Novak 3:02

You know, Bernie, you know, a lot of people and and I have to tell you, I was absolutely amazed when I was reading your book, that Pitbull Rocher forward. You know, I figured Frank Blake, the former CEO of Home Depot could do the profits. But when I saw the pit bull, what wrote the foreword that kind of that took me back. How in the world did Bernie Marcus GET TO KNOW pit bull?

Bernie Marcus 3:25

Well, you know, he tells a story about how we could get through the gate of St. Andrews. Place where I live, because nobody believed that pit bull would be a friend of mine. And they wouldn't let him in. And I finally got him in. But the truth is, he's really a kind of a mirror image of myself. His parents were immigrants that came over from the old country. They were poor as hell, he had to make it for himself in this world. And he's, he's a real entrepreneur, and a capitalist, whether he admitted it or not. Because he's done some wonderful things, especially in the education field. He's been terrific. We taught class together, he and I have a lot of fun with the students. And we found out that we are very similar, different accents, different upbringing. Parents were different, but we're the same. We believe in that you can make something yourself, but you have to work like hell in order to get it. And he did that. And so did I. And fortunately, God smiled on us and gave us what we have.

David Novak 4:43

Absolutely. And as I understand a birdie, you had over 90 book titles. How'd you land on this one? You kick up some dust.

Bernie Marcus 4:50

Well, we fought for it. Frankly. We wanted something like this because we wanted to be able to get somebody's attention. As part of the dues yourself thing, you know, we're telling people get off your ass, and do something and make life better for somebody. You know,

David Novak 5:10

Bernie, while we're on the subject of titles, I'd love to have you tell us some of the names that were rejected, before you got to the Home Depot name, and how you came up with the name Home Depot.

Bernie Marcus 5:23

Oh, the Home Depot. It was it was amazing. We got all these investors together, were undercapitalized. We didn't have enough money to survive, that we had to get a a line of credit from a bank in order to do it. And about 30 days before, we still didn't have a name. We hired a firm out of Canada, and they wanted to call a bed, Bernie's build all going me in prison garb. And you know, saying they locked me up because we charge this low prices. And in fact, I have a picture of what they recommended in my office. And it was being a prison guard. But there were so many names. And it came about Marjorie, one of our investors was at a gas station, she looked across, and it was a train depot. And she started to posle words. And she called me right from the gas station and said I have a name. This is 30 days before. So we had the building we're we're setting up we're putting product in, we had no name on the building. And when she called me, she said, Well, part of the reason we could clear the name, every time we went in somebody else call on the name. So she started to play house depot and product depot. And then she finally came up with Home Depot. And she called me and she said I found the name Home Depot. And I said, I don't think I like it. But let's try it. I wasn't in love with it. I thought it was a good name. But then I called my attorneys and I said can we clear this name? And they came back and they said one guy, I don't know is St Louis or something own own the name and we were able to buy it from him right away. And we we incorporated. But the truth is think about the name. What the hell's the name mean? Gimbels, Macy's, Bloomingdale's. What they don't mean anything Neiman Marcus, what do they mean? They don't mean anything. But what happens is that you build a brand around it. And eventually, people associate the word, the name with what you produce what your product is. And it turned out that Home Depot today is one of the great brands in the world. I mean, it's known everywhere I go everywhere. And wherever I go, and I say Home Depot, they say, oh, you know, even if they're overseas?

David Novak 8:06

Well, you build one of the most admired companies in the world. You're the largest retailer, you're it's an incredible success story. And you know, it's interesting, Bernie's, you're right, kick up some dust at 93. And you actually started home depot at 49. When you look back, and you had to reflect when you're writing this book, how has your leadership changed over time? Or have you always been basically the same leader?

Bernie Marcus 8:32

No, I think my style is the same. I'm an entrepreneur, I'm easy. You know, I know your books, and you talk about how CEOs, how they basically operate, I believe in surrounding myself with smarter people than I am. And let them free. Let them do their entrepreneurial things, you know, keep a track on him and keep controls so they don't go off the reservation. But generally, I like to have the smartest people in the world. Many CEOs surround themselves with people who are dumber, because they want to be the smartest guy in the house. I don't want to I want to be the dumbest guy in the house. And I want all these people around me who are smarter than I am in different areas. I for instance, you know, Arthur Blank, Arthur Blank has talents that I don't have. And he's, you know, he's a pedantic and you know, kind of guy. His desk is cleaned. If you saw what my desk look like, you wouldn't believe it looks like that terminated. We're just the opposite kind of guys. It's like the odd couple. And you know, I'm playing the guy who's, you know, free and easy and authors. He's who he is. And we were partners for 40 years, working together. And if you've ever met two people who are opposite, man, it's the two of us. I mean, I wouldn't go into his office some Time is sprinkled dust on his desk. He would come in and go preserve, because there was never any dust on his desk. Me You couldn't even find a desk.

David Novak 10:12

That's because you're a creative guy. And you have so many ideas. You're throwing things all around the place. And I mean, there's no question that that's the difference. And he's a finance guy, you're the marketing guy to guys become the super blender, you create the super milkshake. And you also had Ken Langone who's a mutual friend of ours. And Ken is, you know, a hell of a guy as you well know. It and a great leader, what did can teach you about leadership? And and if you could give me a story to illustrate it?

Bernie Marcus 10:40

Well, Kenny, he questions everything. In other words, there's nothing he doesn't question. Good morning. What do you mean by that? He's just, he's just that kind of a guy. And he's, he's a real devil's advocate. So Kenny, who, of course, wasn't in the operations of business, we use him as a special adviser, especially on financial things. But we you know, who's the lead director on the board of directors, he went into the stores. I mean, if you know him, you know, he spends a lot of time in home, Home Depot stores, talking to people. So he was very much involved with our business, but not in the actual operation of the business. Kenny is a very smart, intuitive kind of person that can spot things that you could never believe. And he would spot things that we never thought of. And he would, over the years, disagree with one direction or another that we're on the go on. But most cases, he was so supportive. And he's he you know, he's a positive guy. He wakes up in the morning, and the glass is half full. And he wants to make it full every day. He's just so full of energy, and so full of thoughts. And he's not afraid to share with you.

David Novak 12:03

That's absolutely right. And you know, you're no wallflower. You got Arthur Blank, he's no wallflower. And you got Ken Langone, I see the three of you guys be co founders a Home Depot in a room. You got big personalities, strong opinions. You know, when you look back on a birdie, what was the biggest disagreement you three ever had? And how did you resolve it?

Bernie Marcus 12:24

I can't think of a big one. But there were many. And I know that Kenny, I board meetings, he would incessantly disagree with something that I wanted to do. He's on my foundation board, a very key member of my foundation board. And when I announced that I wanted to build an aquarium in the city of Atlanta, he went totally reserved. He said, That's a stupid as dumbest thing I've ever heard of. And finally, and we we argued back and forth at a board meeting, we had all board members, because he finally said to me, Bernie, it's your money, and you could do whatever you want with it. But he finally gave in and he didn't win every argument, I will tell you that. I'll tell you what he he made me think twice about so many things that I did. And many of them he was right. And I was wrong. And I think that one of the things that David, you should know, a good leader is somebody who listens to people, but I mean, listens, incorporate what they're saying, into your brain and into your computer. And think about it. And if they're right, you admit that you're wrong, and you adopt whatever policy they have. And so many times he was right about so many things. But of course, you know, that was the same thing I did with George Shultz and many other people that I met my lifetime. They were all very smart. And you had to listen to what they said. And in many cases, they made sense, and change the direction you're going in. Bernie,

David Novak 14:09

if you had to pick one trait that separates you as a leader, what would it be and tell me a time when it really paid off for you?

Bernie Marcus 14:17

Well, I can tell you 1000 times this thing about listening, where I mean, people don't listen, you know, you say something to them. And you know, it like bounces off a rock. They this prayer doesn't permeate their brain. You know, I would be in a store. And I've had it'd be a 17 or 18 year old kid. I was walking through a store one day, and there was a product that we're out of and I said why don't we have it? And he said, we're always out of it. And I said, What Why are you out of it? Why don't you order mores? It was no place to put it. So I said, Well, that's pretty stupid. In other words, if you had to tie was a three times more a wash your hair, would you sell it? He said, If I had 10 times more I could sell it. I said, so why don't we do something? He said, I don't know, I would stack it on a damn floor. Well, that turned out to be a multi million dollar idea. I went back and I said, Holy Christ, this guy is right. Let's stack this stuff on a floor. Because we had no room in the shelves. And the more we put out, the more we sold. So listening really became the key thing for me. We taught our people when we, when we trained our people, to listen to people, some of the greatest ideas came out into the most unlikely places. And you can make millions of dollars I can give you 50 different times that happened to me in my lifetime.

David Novak 15:52

You know, I remember you told Frank Blake that, you know, you're going to tell a joke as a CEO, but remember something, you're really not that funny. And, you know, what's the wisdom in that birdie?

Bernie Marcus 16:08

Well, you know, as a CEO, you know, you're used to, unfortunately, I didn't have those kinds of people. But you're used to this, you know, yes, you're right. You're right, you're right. My people would say, That's bullshit, it doesn't work. And they did. And they weren't afraid of a kickback. Because I want them to be honest with me and forthright and it made an impact on me. Look, we're we're interested in only one thing, making a business better, making a better experience for the customer. And if they had a better idea than I did, then I had to know Incorporated,

David Novak 16:47

but you're like a very outspoken guy. You're very opinionated. And so here you are saying, Oh, you just tell me how full of shit I am. Okay, you know, I just can't wait to hear it. Right? I meant you had to have some courage to take on Bernie Marcus, didn't you?

Bernie Marcus 17:01

Well, we told them, number one, they would never get fired. If they were respectful. In other words, you could tell me I'm full of shit in a respectful way, not in a disrespectful way. So as long as they were respectful, it was acceptable. It was okay. And if it made sense, then certainly it may it was respectful. And listen, I remember the time where I went into stores, and they were spending their Mondays in their office filling out these forms. And you know, I was trying to defend our systems. And of course, the key, which I didn't write about in the book was that one of the guys got up and said, Bernie, you so full of shit, the systems don't work. And I stopped and I said, How many people think of bullshit. They all raised their hand. And I said, Well, I must be full of shit. There's something really good. I didn't put that in the book, because it didn't quite go over yet. Over. But that's the way it happened. You accept it, you accept it, as long as it's respectful. And as long as it's positive. And as long as it's meaningful. You know, if somebody says I'm full of shit, because they don't like me, that's a different story.

David Novak 18:25

Hey, you know, because you're listening to this, I can tell you're the kind of person who wants to learn how to lead well. But there's a lot of companies out there who want to take that desire and charge you $500 or $1,000, or heck, even $20,000 to try and show you how to lead. That's just not right. If you want to be a better leader, I believe you deserve to have access to something that will truly help you. And it shouldn't cost a fortune. So I want you to go to how leaders lead.com and start my leadership class. It's really and truly free. And after you take this class, you're gonna feel more confident in your role, and you'll be on your way to get the big things done with your team. Go check it out at how leaders lead.com

You're arguably you along with Pat Farrell, you really became the best merchandisers in retail history. I mean, you guys are incredible. And I'd like you to just walk me through some of the things you did to make the customer experience one of a kind at the Home Depot and maximize your sales.

Bernie Marcus 19:33

Well, one day we're I'll tell you, I came out of an experience I had, I was in the store and I and there was a customer there. And they were doing a refurbishing of their house. And I kept talking to the guy, the man the husband, and I kept saying you have to do this. And she looked at me and she said Why are you talking to him and he He doesn't know anything about what I'm doing. I am running this this thing. If anybody's going to pick out a color, and anyone is going to do repair in our house, I'm going to do it. He's the dummy that does it. I'm the one that takes it out. And I came back to Pat and I said, I found out something today the women really control the date redecoration in the house. And Pat said, Well, why don't we do have a class for women. And then we started to give classes for women, it was a brilliant idea. And we taught them how to do their own tile or how to do electrical, they turned out to be great. And they were our best customers. Actually, the guys are word dummies, are old families who realize, you know, we want to do something in a house, the woman really controls us. So that whole turn of events was a very important one for Home Depot. And Pat fired is the one that came up with how to deal with it. And that was giving classes and it really turned out to be a major decision for us.

David Novak 21:08

So you teach classes not only to the women, but also the man. So you really give people the instruction, they need to really, you know, redo their houses. And one of the thing that I noticed that you did, which I really thought was fascinating is that you walk into Home Depot, there's no numbers on the aisles. Where'd that come from?

Bernie Marcus 21:24

Because we wanted people to wander. In other words, we didn't want them to come in and just be able to go to a shelf, pick what they want and go out. We figured if they wondered, they'd see products on the shelf and say, Hey, I need that. So our whole theory was, if you came into the Home Depot to spend $20, you had to leave spending $250. And it worked for many years. Listen, today, we become so sophisticated. It's all online, it's all on computer, and you can walk through the phone and find what you want. But they're so far ahead of where I was, in those days. They keep upgrading our systems and upgrading it and the customers are making a better experience every day. But in those days, we wanted people to wonder, and people would always say to me, I hate to go to your store. I just hate it. And I would say why. And I'd say I spent a fortune there last week and I had no idea. I came in for lifeboats for crying out loud. And I walked out with a drill.

David Novak 22:35

Now you also had a one 800 Number I think is one 800. Ben Hill. Tell us about that.

Bernie Marcus 22:41

Well, that's also Pat Farah, when customers called in, we want to make sure that that the right person got the right got, you know, typically you call him and some dummy answers the phone and says Yes, sir. No, sir. My manager called you back that Home Depot, especially in the early years, our theory was it started at the top. So he came up with the idea of using a name Ben Hill, it was the name of an exit off the highway. So you call Ben Hill. Ben Hill was whoever was on in that day. And it started with me. I was number one. Arthur was number two, Pat was number three. So whenever the calls came in, it would be in that order, I would get the first one. And believe me when I got the call. And I heard that people had a bad experience or didn't have a product that work. I made sure it happened. So we did that in the early years. And that created a real trust factor between us and the consumer. They really trusted us. And a believe we really cared about them, because we did. So it's

David Novak 23:54

a customer service hotline. And if you're in a store and somebody calls in and they have an issue, you are number one, and you'd pick that thing up, and you'd handle it directly yourself. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. You know, and, you know, I was really impressed that you had a liberal return policy, you could literally at one time at Home Depot, you could buy a a chainsaw, use it, and then you could bring it back and you get a full refund. And then I have to ask you, I know this was a part of your concept. What was your thinking? When you find out the CEO comes in from the outside and takes away that return policy that you had? How did you feel about that?

Bernie Marcus 24:36

Well, he pissed me off, and I'll tell you where it affected myself. I had people working for me in Atlanta, we bought a washing machine at home people a dishwasher, and I noticed that they were washing dishes by hand. I said why are you washing by hand and they say well because the dishwasher doesn't work. And I said well, we bought it at the Home Depot and He said, Yeah. And I said, Well, why don't you call them and just get it out of here and get a new one. And they said, well, Nardelli had this new policy that the manufacturer really gave the warranty wasn't home depot anymore. And I went totally preserved our deli up and I called them every name under the sun. And I said, get that frickin washing machine dishwasher at my goddamn house now, or I'll shove it up your ass. He said, Okay, I'll go, Okay, I'll have it done. This is only one of the policies that he changed. And as soon as Frank got back in, that's one of the first policies we went back to.

David Novak 25:42

You know, Bernie, it's interesting, because I don't know if a lot of people really understand this, but you have this return policy, and everybody goes, Oh, man, that's gonna cost you so much money. But in the end, because you put the customer first like that, don't you end up making more money, Bernie?

Bernie Marcus 25:58

Well, remember how many how much dollars people spend on advertising. They spend millions of dollars, in many cases a day, we're better off just taking care of them customer and not spending as much money as they have to, they spend a lot of money, because they're trying to convince the customer that they're better than they really are. Why aren't you just good? And start that way. And you'll find that your business gets bigger. We just believe whatever we said, we believed in anything that made the customers have a good experience, is what we did.

David Novak 26:38

You know, one of the things that you said Bernie, was that in I quote you on so we don't own customers, they're on lease, and it's a short term lease. How did this view impact how you would literally galvanize your team? How did you get the team to really feel that in their bones like you did?

Bernie Marcus 26:53

Well, first of all, one of the things that we did, that was I think amazing in our company, was that author and I went to the board and said, Put a provision and actually vote on it, that we will never take an option in the company. In other words, we could have been, I guess I be as wealthy as Warren Buffett today, have we taken options, you know, hundreds of 1000s of dollars every year, and over the years, think about 20 years, I God knows how many shares I would have owned. But our preference was to share it with all of our associates, and have managers, assistant managers, department heads all have stock in the company. So they all felt they were working for themselves. If it when a stock went up, they got richer, the reason stock goes up, because the sales go up as sales go up. Because the customers have a great experience. And they understood that. And even today, if you go into the stores, they'll tell you how proud they are. Don't stop at a company going to store and look at somebody's got a badge as 15 years or 25 years. 25 years of property a millionaire. They own stock in the company. And the reason they keep working is because they're working for themselves. And the the beneficiaries of the good work, and the way they treat customers.

David Novak 28:24

You know, another thing you did along those lines verde to capture that, and I was always impressed by this as well as that when you walk into Home Depot used to wear their aprons. And, and I still see it a little bit today, which is I'm an owner asked me.

Bernie Marcus 28:39

Yeah, listen, I will go to the store. It's somebody you know, I will take care of a customer. I know many cases they would argue with me. And they would say you know, this is bad or that is bad. And then I would say my name is Bernie Marcus and I started Home Depot. And I'd say, oh my god, Mr. Marcus. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean what I said, when I said no, no, I'm happy to hear what you said. Because any complaint was one that I wanted to hear. I didn't want to hear good things, because we paid for the good things is supposed to be good. What I want to hear is what's not working, so we can fix it.

David Novak 29:20

You know, you even talk about the importance of cultivating customers. That's an interesting word. You know, what did that mean to you cultivating customers?

Bernie Marcus 29:28

Well, you're taking a customer who had inability to do anything in the house, except change a light bulb. And all of a sudden one day, they're putting in a ceiling fan. And the next day, they're fixing the toilet. And that's cultivation. And I'll give me an example. A couple of weeks ago, I had a meeting. I haven't I haven't met somebody. And he said to me, he's working on something in his house. And he didn't know anything about anything about how to do it himself. And he keeps going back to the store. And they keep teaching him how to use the product. And when he makes a mistake, they give him a card. And he calls that individual. And that individual walks him through whatever he was working on. And that's cultivation. And as you do that, people trust you more, because they know it's not just to sell a product, is to sell a service. And selling a product for a lot of money doesn't mean anything our policy was, you know, if you have a choice of selling the customer, something for $500, and you have something that's $100, that would do the job for him, some $100. One, you don't want to sell them, it's not not important to sell them a big one. And our people took to that. Because that's if their relative came into the store their mother, their father, their brothers, that's what they would do with their brothers. Listen, our whole business is the 500,000 people. And those people are working the stores are the people that make our customer, even today. They're wonderful. When a customer comes into the store, they think about what's good for the customer. Now, what's good for Home Depot,

David Novak 31:24

you know, I know at the Home Depot, you'd love to tell stories about your customers, and what would be your favorite customer story of all time. And I know you have hundreds of them. But what would be the one that you just love to tell the most?

Bernie Marcus 31:37

Well, there was one, we disappointed a customer. They were doing a kitchen. And we promised delivery the kitchen. And they pulled their old kitchen out. They had the plumbers available. And the day we said we deliver the new kitchen, we fail them. And of course a Ben Hill call came in. And I got the Ben Hill call. And I and the guy started oh really unleashed a torrent of obscenities that made you know, you guys killed me and son of a bitches that that, you know, and everything. And I just took it all in. I said, you know, 100%, right. I said we're gonna take care of this for you. And the end is that we built the kitchen. And we gave it to him for nothing. Because we had, there was like a three month period where this guy had no kitchen. And it was over Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I just put myself in his place. He had no kitchen. He had his family for dinner, where the hell are they going to give him Thanksgiving? Turkey. And so we made up for it. And we we built the kitchen for him.

David Novak 32:54

That's a great story. And Bernie, you're obviously a visionary. And and I got to ask you what you have this aha moment for the Home Depot concept. And what made you think it would work? I mean, when did it hit you that you're gonna have this big box, and you're gonna stack it high and sell it lower than everybody else. And you know, you could get everything in the world that you wanted. When did that idea hit, you will

Bernie Marcus 33:19

accumulate over a period of time, I was running this company called handy Dan, which was typical of all the hardware stores in America, we were a small, do it yourself place the 35,000 feet or 40,000 feet. And we carry two of this and one of that, and three of this. And customers would come in and ask us for a brand that we didn't have, or something that we didn't stop. And it happened every single day. And I was in the stores. And I liked it. And as I was running handy, then I didn't know how to solve it because he had 35,000 square foot buildings. So I began to think in terms of what if we opened a gigantic store, and what have we carried everything that a customer would want under one roof. In other words, they didn't have to go to hardware stores, electrical stores, plumbing stores or paint stores anymore, or lumber yards for that matter. If we all had it under one roof, we could solve the problem. Now the problem was that the numbers didn't add up. Either the accountant sat down and put this all together and showed me that we couldn't do it. And especially because I wanted to sell at prices that were less than anybody else because I wanted to buy direct from manufacturers, not from distributors and give that money back to the consumer. And the numbers didn't work and often kept saying it doesn't work. And I remember just before we met with the investors office said to me A it's all facade it doesn't work. And I said, just changed the numbers for Christ's sake. I said, instead of using $20 million for sales, put a 30. He said, That's dishonest. I said, Yeah, I said, but that's we're going to do much more than that. And the truth is, we did double and triple that. Listen, it's like opening the aquarium. I knew that in the middle of Atlanta, it was going to be a triple header, it was going to be a grand slam home run. And it was 3 million people a year came through the aquarium and change the dynamics in the whole city of Atlanta, and the state of Georgia. And the same way, kind of intuitively. I knew this was going to work.

David Novak 35:45

Now one of the things that's interesting, Bernie is that if you wouldn't have gotten fired and handy, Dan, this has never happened, right?

Bernie Marcus 35:52

Oh, Sandy Segal of God rest his soul really did something great for me. And my, you know, my wife, Billy happened to run into Sandy Segal of somewhere. And in her own style, she said to him, Sandy, we have so much to thank you for God bless you for what you did. And he looked at her like she was crazy. She, she just carried it on. Thank you, Sandy, we would not be anything what we are today if it wasn't for you. And so that was a lucky break. You know, that's one of the things in life in the book that I talked about failure. I think that everybody has a failure somewhere along the line, and how they recover makes a difference in their lives. Some people don't ever recover, keep thinking about, you know, why did they do it? Who can they blame, and that they spend the rest of their lives blaming somebody. And my theory is, just move on, move on and do what you do best. And life will turn out to be a better life.

David Novak 37:01

That's a good theory, Bernie, but you know, tell us honestly, how'd you feel when you got your butt canned? I mean, you know, I mean, where are you thinking, Oh, I'm just gonna move on. And you know, things are gonna be great. What was a really like,

Bernie Marcus 37:13

though, it takes time. It doesn't I was I was stunned. I mean, I'd never been fired in my life. And I was running a good company, we were making lots of money. And it was no reason for me to be fired. If I, you know, if I had stolen money, or I had done something, then you say, well, you deserved it. But I didn't deserve it. I mean, and author didn't and Ron Brill did. And here, we were just out on the street. And it took me several weeks to get over it. And finally, you know, Ken Langone, you know, that famous call where he said, You just been hitting the asset of the Golden Horseshoe, I began to realize that this idea was a great idea. And I wanted to expand on it, and do something with it. So there's a lot of things. But the truth is, at one point, I had to put Sandy Segal off away and compartmentalize them into a part of my brain that I didn't want to go back to, you know, I hated them, I despise it. And I had to not let that overcome my good judgment and stop me from you know, doing what I could do best.

David Novak 38:29

So you pick yourself up off the mat, you get back in the ring, and you raise money, you build the store that you didn't have a name for for 30 days before he opened. And yet you have your grand opening, you know, what was the initial reaction?

Bernie Marcus 38:45

Well, there's something we didn't do in the book. I didn't tell anybody. But we had a grant, we had an opening, he had a double truck page, you know, two pages of Home Depot and in the airline Journal Constitution, the day that we were supposed to open, we opened on a Thursday, I remember, they left the head out of the paper. Oh, it wasn't there. So we had no Ed, there we are with this big store. Nobody knew what the hell was a what is it a train depot, and I want to have a clue. And nobody came. And rather than call a publisher, and just read him, I called them up. And I just said, you know, in a very subtle little voice, you just effectively put us out of business. And you put like, 120 people out of business. And he said what did I do? And I said, I You left the ad out. He said, Oh my God, I don't believe it. And because I didn't parade them, and go after him and call them every name under the sun. He gave us the back page or the front section for one year. We could never buy that. And that became a very important part of our success. not treating people like that. Animals and being reasonable with people and trying to, you know, that was as important as anything we ever did. So we had the back page. And from that point on, people started to come in. And they would tell, you know, I would see somebody somebody coming in, and I would say, where are you from? I'd say Athens, I say, Athens. That's a two hour drive from Atlanta. What are you doing here? Well, my cousin was in here and told me, that is the best place and prices are unbelievable. And I drove down with my truck. And we're filling our truck up. And so I knew we're successful. That was the day I knew we're successful.

David Novak 40:44

That's interesting. But you know, when you you didn't have that original ad that you had bought, so the customers don't show up. And you're sitting there in this huge store with all this inventory. You've gone to the banks, you've done all this. What was the soundtrack going on in your mind when this happened?

Bernie Marcus 41:03

Well, I said that my wife didn't let me near a razor. I mean, it was it was a horror story. But you know, we overcame it. And just like I said, you just compartmentalize and you move on.

David Novak 41:25

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Bernie Marcus in just a moment. As you've heard us talk about Bernie co founded the Home Depot with Arthur Blank and Ken Langone. Now Ken is a mentor of mine, and a truly special person. And there's a lot you can learn from Ken about how to show up for people around you and be the leader people want to follow. We need to

Ken Langone 41:45

step out of our own bodies for a moment and say, Okay, I'm going into the body of that kid that's over there in the garden department, or that kid that's over there in the PE department. And I'm going to try and visualize what he's going through right this minute. And when you use empathy, when you use a sense of compassion, and you let that person know that they really matter, that they're precious to you. And more importantly, they're precious to what you're trying to accomplish. And you share that successful, you let them go home feeling they've accomplished something that they do you turn that person on that way, David, it's a force that can't be stopped.

David Novak 42:22

My entire conversation with Ken is full of terrific insights like this. So scroll back in the feed and give it a listen. It's episode 89 here on how leaders lead.

You know, in retail, Bernie, you, you know this better? Anybody, you got to try new things. And and you're known for being someone who's confronted failure, you're not afraid of failure? You have that mindset. But how do you spread that? If you're a leader? How do you spread that across your organization, so you get people taking some risks?

Bernie Marcus 42:58

Do yourself, in other words, don't tell them do it. If I would be in the store, there will be six or seven people around me walking around me, and I would see a customer down the aisle, I would leave them and take care of the customer, I set the example. So after a while, if there was a customer down there, people would split off and take care of the customer leave me by myself, which is what I wanted them to do. I didn't want him to be around me. I want him to be around the customers. So it's by setting the example. And if you set the example, enough times, people say if he could do it, I can do it. And they do it.

David Novak 43:45

You know, I read where you spent 80% of your time talking about the things that went wrong or could be better. How did you balance that with people's innate desire to be recognized?

Bernie Marcus 43:58

Well, you do both. Hey, listen, people who do good job, you always have to reward them for it. And the key is, you got to be able to balance it. Now sometimes, I would go too far. And I would know it where I would criticize what they were doing. And I give them enough credit for what they were doing right. And it would cause me to have to call them back on the phone and apologize and say by the way, I think you're doing a great job don't do what I was critical if you don't take it to heart and don't think I hate you for it. And they liked the fact that I get admit I made a mistake. Think about this a second. I don't know a politician, anywhere that has the ability to say I made a mistake. Most CEOs can't get it out of their mouths. They can't say I made mistake. Making a mistake is the simplest thing in the world and admitting too, it is the simplest thing in the world and changes people around tremendously. It changes the way they think it changes hands go have a deal with you. People just can't do it.

David Novak 45:14

And you know, Bernie, you It's so obvious to me, I can see you going into the store and somebody has not done what you wanted to do. And you're, you're so passionate. You go crazy on this, but you seem to be a guy with the after it's all said and done, you're driving to the next door, you're going to the next place, you reflect on that and go, Oh, I better make that phone call.

Bernie Marcus 45:35

Yeah, it's just it's people. It's how do you want to be treated? My God? How would I want to be treated David, I would not want to be treated that way. Where people took me for granted, number one, criticize me, unfairly number two, and didn't explain why they criticize me, that's a big deal. If I if I said it did or wrong. Now I'd have to explain what they could have done, and have a should have done it and get into a dialogue with them. And then after a while, they would say, I should have thought about that myself. If you make a dumb mistake, as long as it's honest. And and it was a judgment thing. Just correct it just make it right. And don't dwell on it. You know, today, you think about covering your ass. It's in a government work. In business, it's the same thing. People cover their ass and a cover up the stupid is dumbest things. And it costs a ton of money. And a final analysis, they spend more money on on a lie than they would have on something that was beneficial. And they keep doing it. And they don't understand how destructive it is, to a business and destructive for them. Because they're not honest with themselves. And and they're really basically lying and cheating, by not telling the truth.

David Novak 47:09

Bernie, you know, one of the things that's interesting to me is that, you know, you start out in this big store, and you're taking the one 800 Ben Hill calls yourself, but now Home Depot? Well over 2000 stores, hundreds of 1000s of associates, how did you being the hands on entrepreneur that you are? How did you scale Home Depot? Because you couldn't take all those one 800 been held up? There's a how'd you scale that,

Bernie Marcus 47:40

you know, you're putting in enough systems, and you're training of people. And it all has to do with training. It all has to do with spreading the culture. Before somebody has an ability to handle a Ben Hill call, they have to understand how important that role is that it's not just a job, that is a career, and that they have to understand that their part of their career is making that customer happy. And so when you get people that do that, and you have to scale it, of course, today, I mean, it's like 550,000 people working at Home Depot. I mean, think about how many Ben Hill calls we get a day. I mean, probably 1000s all over the country, and Guam and Honolulu, and Mexico and Canada. And how do you get that? How do you handle it? Well, fortunately for me, frankly followed Nardelli, and he started the work on it, then Craig linear, took it over. And now TED is now doing it. And they're all smart as hell. And they all think in terms of how to make life better for a customer. They all have the same culture. I meet with them a couple of times a year, even now. And I don't talk about systems when they tell me the systems they put in. I mean, I don't really believe it. These are things that Star Wars type of things. I don't even believe how the culture is the same. Treating the customers the same hasn't changed during the day we started.

David Novak 49:20

And you're you're a huge learner. You know, you really get excited by learning new things. And one of the things I understand is you actually spend some time with Sam Walton who built Walmart. When you two got together. What was that like? And what was the biggest lesson you learned from him?

Bernie Marcus 49:37

Well, Sam Walton was the smartest retailer I ever met in my life. I mean, he really was brilliant. And he did things that were way beyond me. He taught me about everyday low prices, not to put things on sale, but to sell them at everyday low prices. There are many things I learned from Sam that I wouldn't have learned from other people. The one thing I didn't learn from Sam is philanthropy. He was not philanthropic. He didn't give money away, except when it was good for business. In other words, he would do things for Bentonville, Arkansas. But that was it. And no matter how many conversations we had about it, he wasn't willing to go out of that sphere. He stayed in that sphere. But when you talk about retailers, he was smart as hell.

David Novak 50:28

You know, I visited Walmart and Bentonville on a learning visit. And you know, I was interested in when I walked in the foyer and said today's stock prices X tomorrow's up to you. I just love that because it really got to the ownership that I know that you're such a big believer on but it When did you have that moment? Bernie Where were you realize that getting your your associates to really have ownership in your company was going to be critical to your success?

Bernie Marcus 50:58

Well, really, from the beginning, because I recruited people from all over the country to come the Home Depot when we open and people gave up well paying jobs. In many cases, I paid them less. But I said to them made a promise. And I said when author and I get wealthy, you're gonna get wealthy along with us. You're gonna own a piece of the rocks from the very beginning. I made that promise to them. And I kept that promise.

David Novak 51:31

Obviously, no, Ken Langone and Barney Hill was on our board. And they were, you know, obviously big Home Depot's and you know, but I believe you require your board members to spend time in the stores once a quarter. Now most leaders keep their board out of the day to day they you know, they try to, you know, bring the people in for the board baited and then set them off, you know, what drove your thinking to say, hey, as a board member, I want you out in our stores?

Bernie Marcus 51:58

Well, first of all, going back to government controlling boards, every one of my board members own stock in the company, bought stock in a company. So they had a reason for that company survive, and the company to make it. And so I think that Kenny was very instrumental in making that change. Because Kenny was going into the stores, we didn't have to tell him to do it, he was doing it. And then we made it part of the policy, that every one of the board members had to go into stores. And we took people that that didn't go into stores and ask them to leave the board. If they didn't go to stores didn't know the business. When they came to a board meeting, they knew what was going on. They had a feel for it. And it was we didn't just give them a paper, typical boards that come for lunch. You know, people check their their brains at the door. And these are all entrepreneurial people. And I want to hear what they have to say, and I want their input. And most CEOs don't want their input.

David Novak 53:10

I know that you're always thinking about the future. Right now you're thinking five years ahead. You know, that's just the way how you are? What was your process? Or did you have a process? Just intuitive tip for coming up with groundbreaking ideas? I mean, how did you make yourself think about the future? It just happened naturally.

Bernie Marcus 53:28

That's, that's who I am. I'll tell you why. Because I wasn't bogged down with every day, things that don't interest me. Budgets, you know, things that that take my mind away from what I do well, so I think the fact that author and I will partners, author took that burden away from me. So all I have to think about is how to make it a better marketing company, how to do PR, how to sell more product, how to be a better merchant, and I didn't have to worry about hours and government things that they put the burdens on you, you know, writing reports, and I didn't have those things.

David Novak 54:11

You know, over the years, how did you reinvent Home Depot so that you didn't end up like a Sears? Or some of these other retailers that were wildly successful at one point had the world by the tail, and then they end up dying off? What were the big pivot points that you made? How do you make sure that didn't happen to Home Depot?

Bernie Marcus 54:32

Well, if you don't learn by watching, then you're pretty stupid. I watched the disintegration of Sears Roebuck. Well, when we started Home Depot, Sears Roebuck was the place that was it. greatest pain supplier in the United States, they sold more paint than anybody else. And you watch what they did. And you watch how they were overcome by bureaucracy where they was strangled by decision making was amazing, you know if you went to them, and years later when I left two guys, and I was like Esquire shoe polish, I ran a company that did that. I tried to sell Sears Roebuck. In order to put shoe polish in this store, they went through seven committees, you know, it was like painful. And one of the things I learned is that bureaucracy kills a company, author and I had a bathroom between the two offices. And we would meet in that little Carter. And we will make a monumental, multi million dollars decision in 20 minutes, we didn't go to committees, we didn't have any of those things. And we learn from the people like Sears Roebuck, that that's what killed them. That's why they could never respond to a local situation. They were so bureaucratic, the people that the top was so isolated from the stores, I don't think they ever went into their stores. Because we would go and Sears Roebuck stores. And they were painful experiences. I mean, they were they were doing so many things that were dumb, and they didn't know about in Chicago, they didn't have a clue of what was happening in their stores. And that's how they died. So we made it a point that we're going to be in the stores, we're going to know our business. And we learn from their stupidity, on how not to do it. And many companies have disappeared off the face of the earth, like ANP ANP, was another company in the grocery business that disappeared many, many years ago, for the same reason. And Sam Walton had a lot to do with that, because Sam hated bureaucracy as much as I did. And we would sit and talk about bureaucracy. And Sam would say, the bureaucrats are like cockroaches, they come out at night, when the lights are off, you turn the light on, and there are plenty of cockroaches you just feed have to keep a light on him all the time. And third him out, get rid of them. And so even today, every company, and I'm sure Home Depot as bureaucracy, but every company has it. And if you just got to be aware of it, and bureaucracy hinders success. I think that the guys that run home depot today, understand that. And the other thing is thinking in terms of what tomorrow is going to be like, you can't just live in today, you have to think about where you want to be. And whenever I meet with Home Depot people, I always say to them, where do you want to be five years from now? What are you going to look like? What are the stores gonna look like? What kind of servers are you going to have five years from now? And sure enough, they do think about it. And they are now thinking in terms of five years and 10 years out and making the right kind of investments. You know, I

David Novak 58:05

want to shift gears for a minute and take you way back. I'm almost positive that you are the first gang member that I've ever interviewed. We kill the hell out of it. Tell me about that part of your childhood, Bertie.

Bernie Marcus 58:20

Well, you know, of course, I was a kid alone. 12 years old. I live in a black neighborhood. And it was easier for you got destroyed. And I fought back. And I fought back. The leader of the gang was a guy who beat the crap out of me every day, every day. And I would come back for more. Until one day he said to me, You know what, you join the gang. And he actually did put me in a gang and they actually saved my life a couple of times. I literally saved my life. But I don't tell the story. I'll give you a great story. When I was with two guys. We bought a store in the middle of Atlanta, downtown Atlanta. And on opening day, I was going up the escalator with the chairman of the board the president and coming down was this guy who saw me and yelled at Bernie Bernie, you know, over and it was one of my gang members, the leader of the gang back and I went up the chairman turned to me. He said, what was that? What was that? And I said, that was Sunday. I just let me take care of it. I went up and I went down. I met him at the bottom. He was wearing your raincoat. It was in June. And I said he said what are you doing here? I said I'm I'm a vice president here marketing. And he said you work in here I said yeah, he says we Robin his plane flies are you here we'll call them off right away. And he did he closed the ball at the store.

David Novak 1:00:00

It came back to you in spades. That's unbelievable. Your parents were Russian immigrants, and you grew up very poor. In what way did those early childhood struggles really help you become the kind of leader you are today?

Bernie Marcus 1:00:15

Well, the first thing I knew is I never want to be in a situation where you go hungry, or I couldn't provide for my family. And my thoughts were always to be able to be independent financially. And that was what drove me never to be in a situation that my parents were in, my father barely made a living. And if it wasn't for my brothers breaking their backs, and working, when they were weren't in university, but working and breaking their asses, bringing money home, we wouldn't have eaten in the house, I just didn't ever want to be in that kind of situation. And I never wanted my family to be in that situation. So my key was always to be independent. And you know, I didn't any people, I'd have a made money, I wanted to know how they made money. And so my thing when I would see a guy with a big house with a big porch, how to handle this guy make his money. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't spend my life meeting with people who were successful, and learning from them how they did it, and trying to inculcate it into my own life, wherever I could. And they shared how they did it with me. And it became a part of who I am,

David Novak 1:01:36

you know, Bernie, it became a part of who you are, and you've had enormous success. And one of the things that you're a big believer in is giving back and you talk about the concept of entrepreneurial philanthropy. And the fact that you really view philanthropy as a business. Why are you so passionate about that concept? Well,

Bernie Marcus 1:01:59

because number one, I think about all the great things have happened because of Home Depot. And I say Home Depot, because of the money that Home Depot allowed me to give away. The Marcus Autism Center 40 years ago, we started that center, when people didn't know what autism was. And I stayed involved with it for about 20 some odd years, and put millions of dollars into it. And today, the markets Autism Center is the biggest in the world. I also started Autism Speaks for the same reason, because people didn't know what autism was. And I started Autism Speaks. Because I wanted people to understand that one out of 58 kids at that time was one out of 58 kids. Today, it's one of the 38 children are autistic, it may know there was a year black or white, or yellow, or rich or poor. It's one of the 38 kids. So I think at that time, if I hadn't stayed involved, that Mark is with him said wouldn't be where we are today. Today, they have a device that will be on the market shortly it's been approved by the FDA already, where they can determine that a child is autistic, at the age of three months, think about that. At the age of three months, if you start treating that child, you could change the way that child was going to what his life is going to be like, instead of his life, you know, being this way, you can make it that way. You're not going to cure it, but you can make it life a better life. But it was the fact that we got involved with it, that we stayed with it that we didn't walk away and and we just write a check.

David Novak 1:03:51

Is that what you mean by treating it as a business that you're involved in whatever you invest in, just like you would a business and stay passionate about it. You know, your mom, as I understand, it always encouraged you to give back. And I gotta tell you, she'd be so proud of you, Bernie, I mean, you and Billy, you guys have given over $2 billion away just through your own foundation. And tell us about the giving pledge and why you join.

Bernie Marcus 1:04:16

Well, when they call me for the giving pledge. I had already committed to giving 90% of what we earn, why before we leave this earth 90% is going to go into a foundation, which will be given away. My kids are taking care of my kids who could never have my life. They're not going to have the houses I have unless they earn it themselves. Of course we did enough so that they're never going to starve to death. But I'm not leaving it to my children. They don't deserve it. They didn't they really didn't make it happen. And I want them to do it for themselves. So if they become successful or my grandchildren become successful, is because I gave them a leg up on And then he earned it by themselves. But the truth is that 90% is better than 50%. And when they came out with the earnings pledge course I joined,

David Novak 1:05:13

why not join? You're already way ahead.

Bernie Marcus 1:05:18

Warren Buffett called me to do it. And I said, Sure, Warren, I said, you're going to end up giving all your money away anyway, which of course, he's doing. Because he had so much more to give away. And it's not that easy to give the money away. The way we do it, at least we follow in. And we see that we get a return on invested capital, because we watch the results. Warren is not that interested in charity. But he knows that he's got to, he has to give it either give it our or let the government take it.

David Novak 1:05:55

You know, you created a company where one of your former employees said, anyone can be anything. How do you look at investing in your people and tell me a story how you put that core value into action?

Bernie Marcus 1:06:09

Oh, listen, we have so many people that have proven you give him the rod. They catch the fish. We have one young lady who started with as 18. She was a Jamaican Harbin spoke English, but great talent, tremendous talent. And I spotted her Florida. Years and years ago, she was a cashier, and she was never rented at her desk, she was always out selling product to the customer. If they would come through, and they bought paint, and they didn't buy brushes, she would go back and get the brushes and leave the cashier. And that's how I discovered people waiting in line and there was no cashier. And finally I said, just put her on the damn floor and let us sell well today. She runs all of our stores. Wow. What do you 700 stores 500,000. associates, she runs it. You gave you can't tell me of a better area of success than that.

David Novak 1:07:15

I can't I can't tell you anything better than that. And I understand when you had your team meetings, you tell your team members at the end of the meetings that you loved him. Now that's not common in most work environments. Why did you do it?

Bernie Marcus 1:07:30

Because I love him. I love him. I walk into a store. I want to hug everybody. Because think about the life I live. I could have anything I want. I could do anything I want to do. It never gonna happen without Home Depot, you have to have an emotional feeling for the people that allow that to happen that continue. The Home Depot continues to be a great company earns great numbers. Every year, the sales are phenomenal profits are phenomenal. returns on invested capital for number. I love the people that run it. I just love him. You know,

David Novak 1:08:06

Frank Lake had you back at the store manager meeting when he became CEO. And they love you to the Ovation just went on and on and on. People were cheering for you and everything that you you really represent. So you gotta gotta love to be loved back. You obviously are that and this has been so much fun. Bernie, you know talking to you about the business and the way you think. And I want to have a little bit more fun if you don't mind by doing a lightning round of q&a. Are you ready for this? Yeah, sure. Okay. What's one word others would use to describe you? opinionated? If you could be one person for a day besides yourself? Who would it be? And why?

Bernie Marcus 1:08:49

George Shultz, if we had a George Shultz now, today, it would be the best thing for this country.

David Novak 1:08:56

What's your biggest pet peeve?

Bernie Marcus 1:08:58

Stupidity.

David Novak 1:08:59

What was the last home improvement project you took on?

Bernie Marcus 1:09:03

Oh my god, don't don't even talk about her. And I never and I admitted it in the book. And I stayed stupid all my life. I wanted to

David Novak 1:09:17

I can join that stupid club with you. What's the number of fistfights you think you've been in?

Bernie Marcus 1:09:23

Well, up until the time I was 20. It was a lot.

David Novak 1:09:29

What's the word or phrase that comes to mind when you think about the growth of the Home Depot?

Bernie Marcus 1:09:35

Unbelievable.

David Novak 1:09:36

What would I hear if I turned on the radio in your car?

Bernie Marcus 1:09:40

Talk Shows.

David Novak 1:09:41

What's something about you that few people would know.

Bernie Marcus 1:09:45

I think that my evolve with philanthropy. I think a lot of people don't know how involved on it and how extensive it is that it involves medical and free enterprise and educational Olden Jewish issues, people just don't know how much of a ballboy.

David Novak 1:10:04

That's the end of the lightning round there, Bernie, just a few more questions, and I'll let you go. You've been so gracious with your time. You've been married to your wife, Billy for almost 50 years. And I hear there's a particular strategy that you have in your marriage that's helped you sell more bathtubs at Home Depot. Tell us about it. And the underlying lesson that there is for us

Bernie Marcus 1:10:28

never go to bed angry, ever. In 50 years, we never went to bed angry. And that saved our marriage, and made our marriage a good marriage. And I have to tell you, it continues today. We still love each other dearly, after 50 years. And it's because we don't go to bed angry. The key was taking a bath together, being naked in the bathtub, where you're defenseless. And anything that was in our minds would come out. And when we left that bathtub, everything was out on the table.

David Novak 1:11:09

That's fantastic. And you sold a lot more bathtubs at Home Depot, right?

Bernie Marcus 1:11:13

Oh my god. We told that story, to the wives of the husbands and at Home Depot. The next day, there was a run on bathtub.

David Novak 1:11:25

You know, you're such a great storyteller. You always seem to have a great lesson at the end. You know, what was your process for disseminating these stories and lessons to your team over the years?

Bernie Marcus 1:11:36

You know, people don't want to be lectured to people who would rather hear a story. And so the great storyteller was Ronald Reagan. So I remember one time, Ronald Reagan asked George Shultz to write his Fourth of July speech. And George put his whole mind into it, wrote a speech and gave it to the President. And Ronald Reagan looked at it and kept circling it at the side who says story? Story. Story. In other words, if you want to make a point, tell a story. People understand stories. They don't like to be lectured to.

David Novak 1:12:19

Absolutely. And what's the single most important bit of advice you'd give to aspiring leaders?

Bernie Marcus 1:12:26

Passion, you have to have passion for what you do. You can't be dispassionate. I mean, if you don't have the passion, and you don't have the emotion for it, it's not going to be successful.

David Novak 1:12:39

Well, Bernie, I have to tell you, I was looking forward to this conversation. And I knew it would be amazing. And it has been, you're, you're an incredible leader.

Bernie Marcus 1:12:49

Thank you. And David, you keep doing what you're doing. Because CEOs need a lot of work today. They need a lot of help. And maybe your books and your lectures, we'll change some of the directions. Oh,

David Novak 1:13:05

thank you, my friend, and keep up the great work yourself.

Well, there you have it, our most bleep worthy episode ever. But you know what, you can't put a filter on Bernie, Marcus. And who would want to he's got so much wisdom from a career that truly changed the retail game. But you know, from the very beginning, the Home Depot succeeded because they were willing to do what was good for the customer. That's how Bernie made decisions. And it wasn't something he talked about. It was something that he did, taking calls from customers directly, walking the floor and talking to customers and assisting them and helping them find the merchandise that they were looking for. This is a guy who did all kinds of things all the time to make sure he set the example for making customers happy. To him, it was all about cultivating that relationship with customers by putting them first. And you know what, you can make a huge shift in your business when you start asking what's best for your customer. Think about this, how often do you truly get to see your customers using your product or service? Are there policies you need to change so that they're more in line with what's best for customers? Or hey, you might need to do more for employees. So they're motivated to serve customers. Take action on these big questions this week, and I know that you're going to find some real breakthroughs. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders do what's great for their customers. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Dr. Holly Anderson, one of the world's most renowned cardiologist and the creator and driver of the hands only movement for CPR.

Speaker 1 1:14:53

You gotta love what you're doing. If you're passionate about a message, you find a way to make it work. And we're all busy. See, but if you're busy doing things you don't like, then you're busy and unhappy. But if you find things that are important, and these things are important to me, then you find ways to get them done. And you find people who are also willing to help you get these done.

David Novak 1:15:13

So be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL8036528126.mp3?updated=1723086503","dx_media_id",213,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2023-01-26","itunes_episode_id",119,"youtube_id","2025-10-02T10:29:59.000000Z","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/WzAbYv0UWoZ7NsEHiHyd18VC2vZTgnm8dqqlk478.mp3","dx_filename","WzAbYv0UWoZ7NsEHiHyd18VC2vZTgnm8dqqlk478.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","eQhBiryi4TvZsTCiV2jlFP57KaOc7qvDHAgpojINudE","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/213.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",4550275,"thumbnail_url","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":65,"_92":77,"_93":75,"_94":-5,"_30":79,"_32":95,"_96":-5,"_97":81,"_84":85,"_98":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","mVu00NCdvBd02bQMCuTtgxTIoCflPatQAmTDtQeu6fPNk","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Bernie","last_name","Marcus","job_title","Home Depot, Cofounder","Cofounder, The Home Depot, hardware, home improvement","external_links","https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Marcus,https://marcusfoundation.org/",1,0,"image_media_id",752,281,"2026-07-23T16:46:28.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/J7qLysJ8oWuN69Wr3dLN2jjLUUk4DzBBmdLSkS8W.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/Bt8u12qVxHLdoiBPHFiMKEO4ee2azFNkZxpGGCjm.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/24/bernie-marcus","industry_id",4,"industry",{"_13":120,"_131":132,"_133":135},"industries",[130],"image_media",{"_13":111,"_92":129,"_93":116,"_94":-5,"_30":-5,"_32":-5,"_96":-5,"_97":-5,"_84":-5,"_98":-5},{"_13":112,"_92":128,"_93":117,"_94":-5,"_30":-5,"_32":-5,"_96":-5,"_97":-5,"_84":-5,"_98":-5},"Bt8u12qVxHLdoiBPHFiMKEO4ee2azFNkZxpGGCjm.jpg","J7qLysJ8oWuN69Wr3dLN2jjLUUk4DzBBmdLSkS8W.jpg",{"_13":120,"_131":132,"_133":134},"name","Retail and E-commerce","pivot",{"_34":35,"_119":120},{"_34":35,"_119":120},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_144":145,"_146":147,"_148":149,"_150":151,"_152":153},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]