[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2769/your-lifestyle-leads-your-work-style","id",2769,"title","Your lifestyle leads your work style","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.320\nI've heard you say your your lifestyle leads your work style. What do you mean\n\n2\n00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:05.680\nby that?\n\n3\n00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:11.600\nIt means they work together, you know, I luckily I don't have to commute\n\n4\n00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:12.720\nanymore and\n\n5\n00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:15.640\nyou know, I\n\n6\n00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:20.890\nJust think it's really important to bring your best self to work and when you\n\n7\n00:00:20.890 --> 00:00:21.840\nare working\n\n8\n00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:26.840\nYou know make sure you drink enough water so your brain's working\n\n9\n00:00:26.840 --> 00:00:31.170\nMake sure you take enough breaks and fuel your body with you know a nice\n\n10\n00:00:31.170 --> 00:00:31.760\nhealthy\n\n11\n00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:36.380\nYou know lunch because if you're gonna eat, you know two pieces of pizza and a\n\n12\n00:00:36.380 --> 00:00:36.960\ndiet coke\n\n13\n00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.120\nYou're gonna literally sink into the chair\n\n14\n00:00:40.120 --> 00:00:44.570\nSo the better you take care of yourself the more energy you'll have for your\n\n15\n00:00:44.570 --> 00:00:47.680\nlife and your work and so here you are now\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",2838359,"end_time",2884379,"keywords","Work life balance, health, diet, exercise, energy, lifestyle, productivity","slug","your-lifestyle-leads-your-work-style","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","C8Z7jiCqJ4s01DW5IGJ1uQ4UwljoDeLpGZ7jYHLwzUTg","mux_asset_id","zTXEPaUMJ01BmjLsfKOzaDwEWE028lOUDGC00AXJXFEJ00U","leader_id",132,"episode_id",363,"updated_at","2025-02-26T20:13:47.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2769/your-lifestyle-leads-your-work-style","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_62":112,"_59":112,"_113":114,"_69":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":75,"_35":36,"_39":76,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","The best solutions are often the simplest","the-best-solutions-are-often-the-simplest","Learn how to simplify your thinking to find better ideas and more energy. See the unsung benefit of an engaged social media following. Plus, inspiration to march to the beat of your own drummer.","summary","

How do some leaders seem to tackle big challenges and make it look effortless?

In this episode, David sits down with world-renowned entrepreneur and cosmetics titan Bobbi Brown. Her latest venture, Jones Road Beauty, is growing like crazy because people love how she has simplified the complicated world of beauty and cosmetics.

Leaders waste all kinds of time because they overcomplicate things. But when you learn to simplify, you can save time and energy—and ultimately, find better solutions, too.

Listen to this episode to see how Bobbi does it, and discover why the ability to simplify is a game-changer for your time, energy, and creativity!

You’ll also learn:

One strategy to try if you’re struggling to connect on social media
The easiest way to get inspired when you’re stuck
Why your unconventional career path might just be your biggest strength
A surprising quality of great salespeople

Take your learning further. Get proven leadership advice from these (free!) resources:

The How Leaders Lead App: A vast library of 90-second leadership lessons to stay sharp on the go

Daily Insight Emails: One small (but powerful!) leadership principle to focus on each day

Whichever you choose, you can be sure you’ll get the trusted leadership advice you need to advance your career, develop your team, and grow your business.

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120\nI like to show people how simple things are.\n\n2\n00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:04.800\nI'm kind of a simpleton.\n\n3\n00:00:04.800 --> 00:00:08.560\nI'm not complicated and I just like to cut through all the crap.\n\n4\n00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:20.880\nHow do some leaders seem to tackle big challenges and make it look effortless?\n\n5\n00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:23.520\nWell, the secret is in today's episode.\n\n6\n00:00:23.520 --> 00:00:25.280\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead.\n\n7\n00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:29.600\nI'm David Novak and every week I have conversations with the very best\n\n8\n00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:33.600\nleaders in the world to help you become the best leader you can be.\n\n9\n00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:38.480\nMy guest today is world renowned entrepreneur and cosmetics titan Bobby Brown.\n\n10\n00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:43.820\nHer latest venture, Jones Road Beauty, is growing like crazy and is closing in\n\n11\n00:00:43.820 --> 00:00:44.240\non a\n\n12\n00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:48.880\n$1 billion valuation and that's in about five years.\n\n13\n00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:53.720\nPeople love how she takes the complicated world of beauty and cosmetics and\n\n14\n00:00:53.720 --> 00:00:54.000\nthen\n\n15\n00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.520\nmakes it simple.\n\n16\n00:00:56.080 --> 00:01:00.000\nAnd that simplicity shines through in how she leads to.\n\n17\n00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:04.240\nI'm telling you, her ability to drill down and get to the heart of an issue is\n\n18\n00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:08.880\nabsolutely remarkable and it's the skill every leader needs to develop.\n\n19\n00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:13.520\nLeaders waste all kinds of time because they over complicate things.\n\n20\n00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:19.040\nBut when you learn to simplify, you can save yourself time and energy\n\n21\n00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:21.920\nand ultimately find better solutions.\n\n22\n00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:26.460\nSo see how it's done in this conversation with my good friend and soon to be\n\n23\n00:01:26.460 --> 00:01:27.760\nyours, Bobby Brown.\n\n24\n00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:37.520\nYou know, Bobby, this podcast is obviously all about leadership, but I got to\n\n25\n00:01:37.520 --> 00:01:38.000\nask you,\n\n26\n00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:42.480\nwhat was the biggest learning you had in 2024?\n\n27\n00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.080\nLet's see.\n\n28\n00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:49.520\nYou know, the biggest learning I have had is that I still have so much to learn\n\n29\n00:01:49.520 --> 00:01:49.520\n,\n\n30\n00:01:50.160 --> 00:01:53.920\nright? Like a lot of people kind of get to a point in their careers and they\n\n31\n00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:54.160\nthink,\n\n32\n00:01:54.160 --> 00:01:56.800\nwell, I've done it all. I know everything. What do I have?\n\n33\n00:01:56.800 --> 00:02:01.680\nNo, I have a lot to learn and I think I've really evolved a lot since starting\n\n34\n00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:02.400\nJones Road.\n\n35\n00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:04.560\nNow that's fantastic. We'll dig into that.\n\n36\n00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.080\nAnd you know, every year I start out the year, I do what I call my three by\n\n37\n00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:08.960\nfive exercise,\n\n38\n00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:13.280\nwhere I write down what I am today and then that's on one side of the card.\n\n39\n00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:18.400\nOn the other side is how can I get even better, you know, as a leader.\n\n40\n00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:23.920\nWhat do you think you need to do to get even better as a leader as you think\n\n41\n00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:25.120\nabout 2025?\n\n42\n00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:30.560\nHonestly, for me, it's calm down. You know, I get, I get, I, you know,\n\n43\n00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:36.320\nI care about every little detail and sometimes I get frustrated by people that\n\n44\n00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:36.960\naren't doing\n\n45\n00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:40.950\nexactly what I have in my head and I have to kind of calm myself down and\n\n46\n00:02:40.950 --> 00:02:42.480\nrealize that my job\n\n47\n00:02:42.480 --> 00:02:47.920\nis to tell them what I want and teach them how to do it, especially when you\n\n48\n00:02:47.920 --> 00:02:48.960\nhave a young team.\n\n49\n00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:53.920\nAs I do. And as I understand it, when you think about the Jones Road beauty,\n\n50\n00:02:53.920 --> 00:02:58.960\nthere was literally a countdown for you being able to start that business. Talk\n\n51\n00:02:58.960 --> 00:02:59.680\nmore about that.\n\n52\n00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:05.120\nWhen my husband and I sold Bobby Brown Cosmetics to Estee Lauder, there was one\n\n53\n00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:05.920\nthing left to\n\n54\n00:03:05.920 --> 00:03:11.420\ndecide and that was would I sign a 25 year non-compete? And when you're 34\n\n55\n00:03:11.420 --> 00:03:13.280\nyears old, the thought of\n\n56\n00:03:13.920 --> 00:03:18.180\nworking in 25 years was daunting. I said, I'm never going to want to work when\n\n57\n00:03:18.180 --> 00:03:18.960\nI'm 60.\n\n58\n00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:26.730\nAnd I left Bobby Brown Cosmetics when I was 59.8. And I had four and a half\n\n59\n00:03:26.730 --> 00:03:28.320\nyears left on a non-compete\n\n60\n00:03:28.320 --> 00:03:33.020\nthat I had to wait until I went back into the beauty industry, the, my industry\n\n61\n00:03:33.020 --> 00:03:33.760\nthat I love.\n\n62\n00:03:33.760 --> 00:03:40.960\nSo I launched the day my non-compete was up. That very day. That very day.\n\n63\n00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:42.000\nActually, it's,\n\n64\n00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:46.800\nthe non-compete was up on a Saturday. I did let them talk me into waiting till\n\n65\n00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.520\nMonday morning\n\n66\n00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:51.090\nbecause no one thought Saturday or Sunday was a good day to launch. And by the\n\n67\n00:03:51.090 --> 00:03:52.160\nway, it was a week\n\n68\n00:03:52.160 --> 00:03:56.130\nbefore the presidential election in the middle of the pandemic, in the middle\n\n69\n00:03:56.130 --> 00:03:58.080\nof all this social unrest,\n\n70\n00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.600\nand nothing was going to stop me. I just wanted to get it done.\n\n71\n00:04:01.600 --> 00:04:07.680\nWhere did you get that relentless drive to make things happen?\n\n72\n00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:12.730\nI don't know. I really don't know whether it's from my papa Sam that I watched\n\n73\n00:04:12.730 --> 00:04:13.200\nhim, you know,\n\n74\n00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:19.280\nwith his car dealership or just realizing I'm not very patient, David. That's\n\n75\n00:04:19.280 --> 00:04:20.240\none thing that I\n\n76\n00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:25.480\nneed to work on also is patience, which I keep trying. I must be better than I\n\n77\n00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:26.160\nused to be.\n\n78\n00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:31.270\nBut I just, it made it like when I have something in my head, it made total\n\n79\n00:04:31.270 --> 00:04:33.040\nsense to me. I have my\n\n80\n00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:37.330\nfreedom. What was I going to wait until January? People said, just wait till\n\n81\n00:04:37.330 --> 00:04:38.480\nnext year. Well,\n\n82\n00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:43.240\nJanuary, we had this thing known as January 6th. So that wouldn't have been a\n\n83\n00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:44.080\ngood time either.\n\n84\n00:04:44.080 --> 00:04:48.320\nSo you know what? The best time is do it now. Well, here you are now. You've\n\n85\n00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:49.280\ngot another hit on\n\n86\n00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:56.240\nyour hands. Tell me about the Jones Road brand itself and your core focus. What\n\n87\n00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:56.800\nis the real\n\n88\n00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.370\nreason for being for this brand? Well, I really thought it was going to be this\n\n89\n00:05:00.370 --> 00:05:01.760\nsmall indie brand\n\n90\n00:05:01.760 --> 00:05:07.860\nthat some people would like because there's a lot of women that just struggle\n\n91\n00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:08.800\nwith makeup and they\n\n92\n00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.710\njust want to look better, but they still want to look like themselves. They\n\n93\n00:05:12.710 --> 00:05:13.840\nwant to look natural.\n\n94\n00:05:13.840 --> 00:05:19.220\nAnd it's a brand that is a clean brand. It's without chemicals. And it's\n\n95\n00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:21.040\nwithout heavy marketed,\n\n96\n00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:25.710\nI hate to say the word bullshit, but it's without all of that. It's just\n\n97\n00:05:25.710 --> 00:05:26.800\nproducts that\n\n98\n00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.160\nwhen you put them on, they make you look better. They make you look like you.\n\n99\n00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.120\nThere's definitely\n\n100\n00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:35.630\na Jones Road look. If you are someone that likes contour and overmated up, you\n\n101\n00:05:35.630 --> 00:05:36.160\n're not going to\n\n102\n00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:43.370\nlike Jones Road. So I want to make that clear. But I had a purpose by doing\n\n103\n00:05:43.370 --> 00:05:44.560\nthis because I wanted\n\n104\n00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:50.930\nto teach women of all ages, all ages, 20s up until 100, that you could look\n\n105\n00:05:50.930 --> 00:05:52.640\nbetter just by doing a few\n\n106\n00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:59.100\nlittle things. And Jones Road has, I guess, four and a half years now. Four and\n\n107\n00:05:59.100 --> 00:05:59.680\na half years.\n\n108\n00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.020\nYeah. I had to point time flies. I remember talking about doing this, Frad, and\n\n109\n00:06:04.020 --> 00:06:04.480\nhere we are.\n\n110\n00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:12.560\nI have to be honest, when I heard Jones Road, I didn't immediately think of it\n\n111\n00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:14.080\nbeing a cosmetic\n\n112\n00:06:14.080 --> 00:06:19.620\nbrand. How did you land on that name? It's a really interesting story because I\n\n113\n00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:21.040\nneeded to have a name\n\n114\n00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:27.750\nby a certain day in order to have the creative team start doing the logos. And\n\n115\n00:06:27.750 --> 00:06:28.320\nthat's the thing\n\n116\n00:06:28.320 --> 00:06:32.510\nthat I love is all the visual creative things. And we couldn't either get a\n\n117\n00:06:32.510 --> 00:06:33.360\nname. It wasn't\n\n118\n00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:38.260\navailable. Or we couldn't agree on a name, me, my husband, the kids, whoever\n\n119\n00:06:38.260 --> 00:06:39.520\nwas in my office.\n\n120\n00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:43.760\nAnd we're driving to the Hamptons. My husband and I, well, my husband drives.\n\n121\n00:06:43.760 --> 00:06:44.560\nHe doesn't like me\n\n122\n00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.350\nbeing in my device, which is hard for me because I'm always in my device. So I\n\n123\n00:06:48.350 --> 00:06:50.000\nwas on Waze and Google\n\n124\n00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.250\nMaps because he didn't want to be late. And I looked down. We were somewhere in\n\n125\n00:06:54.250 --> 00:06:55.120\nWest Hampton.\n\n126\n00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:00.560\nLook down on the, we're driving to Sag Harbor. And I looked and I saw on Waze,\n\n127\n00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:06.430\nJones Road. It just struck me. I said, Jones Road, it sounded to me like a bes\n\n128\n00:07:06.430 --> 00:07:08.560\npoke UK British brand\n\n129\n00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:13.490\nthat someone said to me, \"Oh, Bobby, would you please take this old brand and\n\n130\n00:07:13.490 --> 00:07:14.960\nmake it fabulous again?\"\n\n131\n00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:22.640\nAnd I love the UK. And I couldn't use Brown. So Jones. And it was available. So\n\n132\n00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:23.600\nthat was a\n\n133\n00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:30.720\nFriday and Monday we owned Jones Road. I love that story. And, you know, Bobby,\n\n134\n00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.880\nthere's no question you're like the cosmetic queen and you've revolutionized\n\n135\n00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:35.760\nthe whole beauty\n\n136\n00:07:35.760 --> 00:07:39.920\nindustry and you're doing it again now and you create these brilliant products.\n\n137\n00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:45.780\nHow often do you really go to the customer for input or just how much of what\n\n138\n00:07:45.780 --> 00:07:47.120\nyou do is just your\n\n139\n00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:52.550\nbase gut instinct? It's really a combination. What's so amazing now. We used to\n\n140\n00:07:52.550 --> 00:07:53.440\n, in the old,\n\n141\n00:07:53.440 --> 00:07:56.740\nI always call it, you know, in the olden days, we would go to, you know, all\n\n142\n00:07:56.740 --> 00:07:57.760\nthese companies and\n\n143\n00:07:57.760 --> 00:08:02.740\ndo all these surveys. And, you know, I just, I didn't care. I was like, who are\n\n144\n00:08:02.740 --> 00:08:03.440\nthese people that\n\n145\n00:08:03.440 --> 00:08:08.440\nare telling us what they like and don't like? But now I just go to my Instagram\n\n146\n00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:09.360\n, I go to my\n\n147\n00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:15.910\nsub stack, I go wherever and I just ask questions. So I learn a lot from my\n\n148\n00:08:15.910 --> 00:08:17.280\npeople because most of\n\n149\n00:08:17.280 --> 00:08:22.520\nthe people that follow me are, they're not haters, they're lovers. So we also\n\n150\n00:08:22.520 --> 00:08:24.480\nhave a dedicated Facebook\n\n151\n00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:29.150\ngroup called the Rodeys, you know, Jones Road, the Rodeys. Last count, there\n\n152\n00:08:29.150 --> 00:08:31.280\nwas 66,000 Rodeys,\n\n153\n00:08:31.280 --> 00:08:37.010\nmostly women. And they have these communities. And if I ever ask a question, I\n\n154\n00:08:37.010 --> 00:08:38.000\nmean, I get\n\n155\n00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.700\ninfused with information, I need one of the young kids on the product\n\n156\n00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:42.880\ndevelopment team\n\n157\n00:08:42.880 --> 00:08:46.630\nto go in and just make a list of all the requests because I get overwhelmed\n\n158\n00:08:46.630 --> 00:08:47.600\njust looking at them.\n\n159\n00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.870\nAnd I know what colors they want. I know what's working. I know it's not\n\n160\n00:08:51.870 --> 00:08:52.880\nworking. And it's\n\n161\n00:08:52.880 --> 00:08:56.480\ninstant information. And guess what? It costs zero.\n\n162\n00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.640\nWhat was the biggest insight that you, you would not have expected that you got\n\n163\n00:09:00.640 --> 00:09:01.920\nfrom the social\n\n164\n00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:08.480\nmedia input? Well, I think a lot of people wanted products that the old company\n\n165\n00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:09.680\ndiscontinued,\n\n166\n00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:13.840\nyou know, or colors, you know, things that I created when I was there. And in\n\n167\n00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:14.560\nthe six years,\n\n168\n00:09:14.560 --> 00:09:19.050\nI've been gone, you know, they I don't, it has nothing to do with me. They get\n\n169\n00:09:19.050 --> 00:09:19.760\nrid of things,\n\n170\n00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:23.340\nyou know, things I would have said, don't get rid of, don't be crazy. But they\n\n171\n00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:24.560\ndid. So people are\n\n172\n00:09:24.560 --> 00:09:29.480\nlike, we need that in the Jones Road line. So I get a lot of information that\n\n173\n00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:30.080\nway.\n\n174\n00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:35.980\nSo you get back into basically the startup phase again for a new company. And\n\n175\n00:09:35.980 --> 00:09:36.080\nyou know,\n\n176\n00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:41.200\nwhat was the biggest leadership challenge you faced going back to the beginning\n\n177\n00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:41.840\nand building a\n\n178\n00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:46.960\nbrand from the roots? Well, certainly I didn't do it alone. You know, besides\n\n179\n00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:48.000\nmy husband and we\n\n180\n00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:54.860\nhave two board members, you know, really supportive, great, you know, people I\n\n181\n00:09:54.860 --> 00:09:56.000\ncan't live without.\n\n182\n00:09:56.560 --> 00:10:02.170\nWe had a couple different people on leadership and they really weren't the\n\n183\n00:10:02.170 --> 00:10:03.760\nright people. And\n\n184\n00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:07.600\nagain, they were really young. I don't even think anyone was 30 at the time.\n\n185\n00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.640\nAnd it was not the\n\n186\n00:10:10.640 --> 00:10:16.010\neasiest and now they're all gone. And the probably the most interesting thing\n\n187\n00:10:16.010 --> 00:10:17.920\nis who has like,\n\n188\n00:10:17.920 --> 00:10:24.680\nyou know, like sped up in our organization is a boy named Cody, a guy named\n\n189\n00:10:24.680 --> 00:10:25.600\nCody that came in\n\n190\n00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:30.890\nto help us with digital marketing. He just transformed our business. We quadru\n\n191\n00:10:30.890 --> 00:10:32.320\npled when he joined.\n\n192\n00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:38.240\nHe started then eventually became the head of marketing, the CMO. And now he is\n\n193\n00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:39.840\nthe CEO. And\n\n194\n00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:45.600\nwhat's so bizarre about this, David, he's 32 years old. He's my son. He's my\n\n195\n00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:47.680\nsecond child. And so\n\n196\n00:10:47.680 --> 00:10:52.040\ntalk about interesting. This, you know, this was, this kid was on the golf team\n\n197\n00:10:52.040 --> 00:10:52.800\n. He was a strength\n\n198\n00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:59.040\nconditioning coach. He never was interested in makeup ever, ever, ever. And he\n\n199\n00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:00.080\n's just this\n\n200\n00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:05.100\nincredible leader. I don't know where he learned it. He it's mind blowing. He\n\n201\n00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:06.080\nis all three of my\n\n202\n00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:11.450\nkids are pretty self taught on so many things. But he is now the CEO. I am the\n\n203\n00:11:11.450 --> 00:11:13.120\nfounder and CCO.\n\n204\n00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:19.520\nSo do I report to him or does he report to me? It's unclear.\n\n205\n00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:28.410\nWell, I'm not going to finish it to make a guess. So, you know, not many people\n\n206\n00:11:28.410 --> 00:11:29.120\nget asked this\n\n207\n00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:32.880\nquestion, but with Bobby Brown cosmetics, you built an over billion dollar\n\n208\n00:11:32.880 --> 00:11:34.800\nbrand. And now you've got\n\n209\n00:11:34.800 --> 00:11:39.180\nJones Road, which is already has a billion dollar valuation, as I understand it\n\n210\n00:11:39.180 --> 00:11:40.320\n. What's it\n\n211\n00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:46.310\ngoing to take for you to make Jones Road beauty a billion dollar brand in terms\n\n212\n00:11:46.310 --> 00:11:47.360\nof revenue?\n\n213\n00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:51.520\nI don't know. I mean, I know we finished off last year. I don't know if you're\n\n214\n00:11:51.520 --> 00:11:58.000\nand it's it's been printed at a hundred and fifty four million in four years.\n\n215\n00:11:58.000 --> 00:11:58.640\nAnd you know,\n\n216\n00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:04.880\nwe don't have investors. We have like a crazy ridiculous, even, which I still\n\n217\n00:12:04.880 --> 00:12:05.520\ndon't even really\n\n218\n00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:09.230\nunderstand where an even it is. But I hear it's crazy and ridiculous. And we\n\n219\n00:12:09.230 --> 00:12:10.480\ndon't, you know,\n\n220\n00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:14.800\nwe're pretty scrappy still. We do things, you know, we don't like to waste time\n\n221\n00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:15.600\nor money.\n\n222\n00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.800\nSo we just have to keep doing what we're doing and just make sure that we're\n\n223\n00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:21.280\nnot,\n\n224\n00:12:21.280 --> 00:12:26.560\nyou know, don't become cocky and bloated because, you know, it's been it's been\n\n225\n00:12:26.560 --> 00:12:26.880\nlike\n\n226\n00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:31.180\nfour pretty quick, you know, fast growing years. It's not going to last forever\n\n227\n00:12:31.180 --> 00:12:32.960\n. You know, we\n\n228\n00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:37.080\nwe doubled. We this it's not going to keep happening. Like I know that. So this\n\n229\n00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:37.440\nyear,\n\n230\n00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.420\nthis year, which will be our fifth year is going to be more of a challenge. I\n\n231\n00:12:41.420 --> 00:12:41.840\nknow it,\n\n232\n00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.720\neven though we have like phenomenal products, I don't know how big you go. By\n\n233\n00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:46.960\nthe way,\n\n234\n00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:51.770\nwe're direct to consumer except right now we have eight freestanding stores. We\n\n235\n00:12:51.770 --> 00:12:52.800\n're in one department\n\n236\n00:12:52.800 --> 00:12:57.990\nstore. So we don't have a plan to go into retail. How do you balance dreaming\n\n237\n00:12:57.990 --> 00:12:59.040\nand doing?\n\n238\n00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:02.880\nBecause you're a dreamer. I mean, right now you're kind of laying back a little\n\n239\n00:13:02.880 --> 00:13:03.200\nbit, saying,\n\n240\n00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.440\noh, it's not going to last forever. But you have big dreams. And you also are\n\n241\n00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.320\ninto the details.\n\n242\n00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:12.080\nHow do you how do you think about dreaming and doing? Yeah, I don't have big\n\n243\n00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:13.120\ndreams for this brand.\n\n244\n00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:17.550\nI'm not like, Oh, I hope I sell it. I hope I sell it. I sold the first brand\n\n245\n00:13:17.550 --> 00:13:18.640\nand it was great for a\n\n246\n00:13:18.640 --> 00:13:23.600\nwhile until it wasn't. And then it was God awful. And I don't want to do that\n\n247\n00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:24.960\nagain. Like, I don't\n\n248\n00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:29.800\nwant to go if someone comes to me and says, you know, love love to buy you, you\n\n249\n00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:30.320\nknow,\n\n250\n00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:36.380\nand you know, you could just go on a vacation. I'd be like, no, I love doing\n\n251\n00:13:36.380 --> 00:13:38.000\nwhat I'm doing. So\n\n252\n00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:43.890\nyou know, I can't imagine me not doing this. By the way, I'm 67 years old. And\n\n253\n00:13:43.890 --> 00:13:44.800\nto me, that's young.\n\n254\n00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:49.440\nI don't look at myself as old. I'm young. You know, I don't know what I want to\n\n255\n00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:50.560\ndo when I'm 80. I\n\n256\n00:13:50.560 --> 00:13:55.530\nknow I want to be able to, you know, do yoga and, you know, pick pick things up\n\n257\n00:13:55.530 --> 00:13:56.800\noff the ground.\n\n258\n00:13:56.800 --> 00:13:59.920\nBut I don't know what I want, you know, what kind of work I'll be doing. I\n\n259\n00:13:59.920 --> 00:14:01.040\ndefinitely won't be playing\n\n260\n00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:07.390\ncards. You and me both. Fairly young and hard in terms of how we look at things\n\n261\n00:14:07.390 --> 00:14:07.840\n, you know,\n\n262\n00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:12.240\nand I want to talk more about what you're doing at Jones Road. But I want to\n\n263\n00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:13.040\ntake you back a little\n\n264\n00:14:13.040 --> 00:14:18.220\nbit. I think you mentioned Papa Sam or I've heard you call him Cadillac Sam\n\n265\n00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:19.360\nbefore or whatever, you\n\n266\n00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:28.320\nknow, but tell us a story from him that taught you a key leadership lesson.\n\n267\n00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.920\nI don't know if it's urban myth or my aunt told me or this actually happened,\n\n268\n00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:32.640\nbut it's one of my\n\n269\n00:14:32.640 --> 00:14:37.400\nfavorite stories that Papa Sam was once in his car dealership. And some guy\n\n270\n00:14:37.400 --> 00:14:38.560\ncame in with this big\n\n271\n00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:42.550\novercoat. The guy looked like he had been sleeping on the street. He had two\n\n272\n00:14:42.550 --> 00:14:43.760\ngarbage bags with him,\n\n273\n00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:48.250\nyou know, like literally garbage bags. And none of the men, you know, Papa was\n\n274\n00:14:48.250 --> 00:14:49.200\nthe boss. None of\n\n275\n00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:53.660\nthe men would leave their offices. And Papa went up to the guy and he called\n\n276\n00:14:53.660 --> 00:14:54.800\neveryone Doc.\n\n277\n00:14:54.800 --> 00:14:59.920\nYou know, first of all, Papa was five, two. He was a little teeny guy or five.\n\n278\n00:14:59.920 --> 00:15:00.480\nI don't even know\n\n279\n00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:04.460\nif he was five, four. And he's like, Hey, Doc, can I help you? And the guy said\n\n280\n00:15:04.460 --> 00:15:05.120\n, yeah, I want to buy\n\n281\n00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:09.330\na car. Papa said, all right, let me show you around. The guy bought two cars\n\n282\n00:15:09.330 --> 00:15:10.800\nthat day. The bags were\n\n283\n00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:15.660\nfull of cash. And so what does that teach me? It teaches me that you just don't\n\n284\n00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:16.560\nknow who you're\n\n285\n00:15:16.560 --> 00:15:20.030\ndealing with by what people look like, you know, I don't know where the guy got\n\n286\n00:15:20.030 --> 00:15:20.960\nhis money. I don't\n\n287\n00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.320\nknow where he lived, but he bought two cars. So you learned a lot from Papa Sam\n\n288\n00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:26.480\n, you know, and now\n\n289\n00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:30.170\nyou have your own kids. What do you think's the biggest thing that your kids\n\n290\n00:15:30.170 --> 00:15:30.880\nhave picked up\n\n291\n00:15:30.880 --> 00:15:35.880\nwatching you? I mean, I think that anything is possible and that there's no\n\n292\n00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:37.040\nlimits. You know,\n\n293\n00:15:37.040 --> 00:15:41.950\nI was definitely not the kid in high school that people said, she's going\n\n294\n00:15:41.950 --> 00:15:43.840\nplaces. Absolutely\n\n295\n00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.700\nnot. You know, my parents even, you know, said we're not going to punish her or\n\n296\n00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:49.840\npush her when she\n\n297\n00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.880\ndoesn't get good grades. Because she probably will never really be anything.\n\n298\n00:15:53.880 --> 00:15:55.040\nYou know, maybe she'll\n\n299\n00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:59.470\nbe a teacher, which to me, that would have been a wonderful thing. And I am a\n\n300\n00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:01.520\nteacher, I guess, but\n\n301\n00:16:01.520 --> 00:16:06.160\nI never really thought that I had the ability to do what I'm doing, which is\n\n302\n00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:07.600\nprobably why I'm so\n\n303\n00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:13.440\nrelentless now. I mean, I have a lot to prove not to anyone, but to myself.\n\n304\n00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:17.040\nSo you say you're a teacher, you've mentioned that a couple of times, you know,\n\n305\n00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:25.040\nwhat is it that has really drawn you to seeing yourself as a teacher? Because I\n\n306\n00:16:25.040 --> 00:16:26.240\nhave this\n\n307\n00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:31.520\nnaive ability. I'm very naive. I'm not afraid that something's not going to\n\n308\n00:16:31.520 --> 00:16:32.320\nwork out because I\n\n309\n00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:37.770\ndon't believe there's such a thing. But I also have figured out like easy ways\n\n310\n00:16:37.770 --> 00:16:38.800\nto do things,\n\n311\n00:16:38.800 --> 00:16:44.200\neasy ways to put on eyeshadow, easy ways to make myself not look tired, easy\n\n312\n00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:45.120\nways to do an\n\n313\n00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:49.920\nenormous amount in the amount of time that it would take, you know, like half\n\n314\n00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:50.400\nof the time that\n\n315\n00:16:50.400 --> 00:16:56.390\nit would take someone else. And so I like to show people how simple things are.\n\n316\n00:16:56.390 --> 00:16:57.120\nI'm kind of a\n\n317\n00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:02.040\nsimpleton. I'm not complicated. And I just like to cut through all the crap. I\n\n318\n00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:03.200\n'm like, guys,\n\n319\n00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:08.390\nlet me just show you this is better. So I've written 10 books so far. I don't\n\n320\n00:17:08.390 --> 00:17:10.000\nknow how to type,\n\n321\n00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:14.640\nokay? And the first couple books were torturous for me because I'd work with\n\n322\n00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.160\nthese editors and\n\n323\n00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:20.640\nwriters and they would say, okay, you've got to write, you know, the synopsis,\n\n324\n00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:21.520\nyou've got to write\n\n325\n00:17:21.520 --> 00:17:25.830\nthis, you've got to write this. And like it drove me nutty. Finally, I realized\n\n326\n00:17:25.830 --> 00:17:26.480\nif I could just go\n\n327\n00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:32.850\ninto a studio with models and my team and let's, and an idea and let's just do\n\n328\n00:17:32.850 --> 00:17:34.320\nsome photography,\n\n329\n00:17:34.320 --> 00:17:39.490\nI will take the pictures and put them in chapters. And then I will write to the\n\n330\n00:17:39.490 --> 00:17:41.200\nphotos. And it just\n\n331\n00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:45.520\nmade my life so much easier. And so I found a writer that understood that. And\n\n332\n00:17:45.520 --> 00:17:46.720\nshe was there with me.\n\n333\n00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.720\nHey, everyone. It's Kula. We'll get back to the interview in just a second\n\n334\n00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.080\nbefore we do though.\n\n335\n00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:56.660\nHave a question for you. Have you downloaded the How Leaders Lead app on your\n\n336\n00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:58.000\niPhone? If you\n\n337\n00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.630\nhaven't, take 20 seconds right now, go to the App Store, search for How Leaders\n\n338\n00:18:02.630 --> 00:18:03.840\nLead, and download\n\n339\n00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:08.320\nthe How Leaders Lead app. In the app, every day, you'll get a two-minute video\n\n340\n00:18:08.320 --> 00:18:08.800\nthat'll give you a\n\n341\n00:18:08.800 --> 00:18:12.480\nleadership insight from one of our amazing guests from our podcast to inspire\n\n342\n00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:13.440\nyou and to really get\n\n343\n00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:17.510\nyour mind in the right place before you start your work day. So go to the App\n\n344\n00:18:17.510 --> 00:18:18.240\nStore, start\n\n345\n00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.570\nHow Leaders Lead, download the How Leaders Lead app and start your day every\n\n346\n00:18:22.570 --> 00:18:23.760\nday with two minutes\n\n347\n00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:28.000\nof leadership wisdom. It'll take 20 seconds. Go to the App Store, download the\n\n348\n00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:28.880\napp, and you'll be\n\n349\n00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:33.060\nable to watch every day, just like me, the leadership insight from How Leaders\n\n350\n00:18:33.060 --> 00:18:33.600\nLead.\n\n351\n00:18:33.600 --> 00:18:38.630\nFor those of you who don't know your story, getting back to this notion of you\n\n352\n00:18:38.630 --> 00:18:39.680\nfiguring things out,\n\n353\n00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:46.070\nwhen did you have that seminal moment, Bobby, where you knew you wanted to work\n\n354\n00:18:46.070 --> 00:18:48.160\nout in the makeup\n\n355\n00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:53.750\nworld? Well, I didn't know what I wanted to do in makeup, but I knew that I\n\n356\n00:18:53.750 --> 00:18:55.120\nwanted... I knew I\n\n357\n00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:58.720\nhad to go to college. My parents did not give me a choice. I had to graduate.\n\n358\n00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.800\nAnd I knew that I\n\n359\n00:19:00.800 --> 00:19:06.210\nwas passionate about makeup. I didn't like wearing a lot of it. I just loved\n\n360\n00:19:06.210 --> 00:19:07.840\nplaying with it and I\n\n361\n00:19:07.840 --> 00:19:11.620\njust, you know, made me look pretty and feel pretty. And my mother helped me\n\n362\n00:19:11.620 --> 00:19:13.200\nfind... My mother and my\n\n363\n00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.840\nfather helped me find a college that allowed me to study makeup, which was\n\n364\n00:19:16.840 --> 00:19:18.880\nEmerson College in Boston.\n\n365\n00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:23.600\nThey didn't have a makeup degree. They'd let me create, want to make my own up.\n\n366\n00:19:23.600 --> 00:19:24.960\nNow it's probably\n\n367\n00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.100\ncalled an entrepreneurship, but back then it was called an interdisciplinary\n\n368\n00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:30.400\nmajor. I still don't\n\n369\n00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:35.920\nknow what interdisciplinary means. And so I just kind of realized that I could\n\n370\n00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:37.600\nfigure things out\n\n371\n00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:43.460\nbecause I'm not your traditional learner. I'm not your traditional anything. I\n\n372\n00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:44.560\ncan't really\n\n373\n00:19:44.560 --> 00:19:48.990\ncook. I can't follow a recipe, but I could give a really good dinner party and\n\n374\n00:19:48.990 --> 00:19:50.000\nI can make everything\n\n375\n00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:55.210\nlook beautiful and kind of hack things to make them mine. And so that's what I\n\n376\n00:19:55.210 --> 00:19:55.600\ndo.\n\n377\n00:19:55.600 --> 00:20:01.260\nThat's great. You know, and we have so many leaders listening to this podcast\n\n378\n00:20:01.260 --> 00:20:02.160\nthat, you know,\n\n379\n00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:08.640\nare trying to build their businesses. And just for illustrative purposes, you\n\n380\n00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:09.760\nknow, when you think\n\n381\n00:20:09.760 --> 00:20:15.860\nback at what it took for you to build Bobbi Brown cosmetics, how would you\n\n382\n00:20:15.860 --> 00:20:18.000\ndescribe the top two or\n\n383\n00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:24.640\nthree strategic decisions you made that really in your mind put that brand on\n\n384\n00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:26.560\nthe map? What did you do?\n\n385\n00:20:26.560 --> 00:20:30.720\nWell, certainly it's the team. And by the way, you know, having the team,\n\n386\n00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:32.000\nhaving people that you\n\n387\n00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:37.520\ncan say anything to you could say, I hate that. You could say I'm frustrated.\n\n388\n00:20:37.520 --> 00:20:38.560\nYou could say,\n\n389\n00:20:38.560 --> 00:20:43.920\noh my God, if we only could do this, it'd be so cool for them to understand. So\n\n390\n00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:44.560\nhaving your\n\n391\n00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:50.370\nteam is number one. And by the way, having the team be able to come into me\n\n392\n00:20:50.370 --> 00:20:51.760\nwith a closed door and say,\n\n393\n00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:56.560\nyou know, my husband and I are splitting up. I'm not myself. Please forgive me.\n\n394\n00:20:56.560 --> 00:20:57.760\nMy kids are this.\n\n395\n00:20:57.760 --> 00:21:02.240\nMy like, to me, that's really important. And that just does not have a place in\n\n396\n00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:02.960\ncorporate\n\n397\n00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.510\nAmerica, but I always made sure it happened. So that was something that I think\n\n398\n00:21:07.510 --> 00:21:08.400\nreally helped,\n\n399\n00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:15.280\nyou know, things happen. And also there's so many different pieces of building\n\n400\n00:21:15.280 --> 00:21:16.240\nthis, you know,\n\n401\n00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:22.310\nbillion dollar business over 22 years I stayed. And there's shifts and there's\n\n402\n00:21:22.310 --> 00:21:23.120\nchanges and some\n\n403\n00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:26.550\nthings work and some things don't work. And you have to know when they're not\n\n404\n00:21:26.550 --> 00:21:27.760\nworking and just kind\n\n405\n00:21:27.760 --> 00:21:33.260\nof push yourself back and think and then have people, your posse around you to\n\n406\n00:21:33.260 --> 00:21:34.400\nsay, all right,\n\n407\n00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:39.040\nwhat could we do? What should we do now? You know, and that was important.\n\n408\n00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:46.240\nYeah, those are great, great insights. And you did step away in 2016 from Bobbi\n\n409\n00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:47.280\nBrown cosmetics.\n\n410\n00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:53.640\nAnd you mentioned the frustration you had in terms of just, you know, working\n\n411\n00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:55.040\nthere, you know,\n\n412\n00:21:55.040 --> 00:22:01.680\nwhat advice can you give to people who get in this environment where, you know,\n\n413\n00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.000\nyou just\n\n414\n00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.510\nfrustrated that things aren't going the way you think they should go. I mean,\n\n415\n00:22:05.510 --> 00:22:08.240\nit's easy when you're\n\n416\n00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.500\nat the top to say, okay, I'm getting out of here. I gave up, but you know, when\n\n417\n00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:13.840\nyou're moving up\n\n418\n00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:17.890\nand you see how things are, what coaching could you give someone out? What\n\n419\n00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:18.720\nteaching could you\n\n420\n00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.790\nprovide us? Well, you have to, you know, you never know when it's time to get\n\n421\n00:22:22.790 --> 00:22:24.160\nout. You just don't.\n\n422\n00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:29.100\nI, you know, there's no, there's no magic, anything. I stayed probably a couple\n\n423\n00:22:29.100 --> 00:22:30.000\nyears longer than I\n\n424\n00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:35.090\nshould have. And it really took my 80 something year old aunt who's just turned\n\n425\n00:22:35.090 --> 00:22:35.920\n94 to say,\n\n426\n00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.430\nBobbi, I've been hearing you complain for the last couple years. You're not\n\n427\n00:22:40.430 --> 00:22:41.840\ngoing to fix this.\n\n428\n00:22:41.840 --> 00:22:45.920\nYou're just, you're not going to fix this. And finally, I said, you know, and\n\n429\n00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:46.720\nDallas, you're right.\n\n430\n00:22:46.720 --> 00:22:51.940\nI'm not going to fix it. And I realized that like, no, no, I used to go into\n\n431\n00:22:51.940 --> 00:22:53.680\nwork with like a mental\n\n432\n00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:58.480\nrole of tape and think, okay, I could tape things up and fix them temporarily\n\n433\n00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:59.520\nuntil we do this.\n\n434\n00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:04.560\nAnd finally, I realized, you know what? It's not going to happen. You know, and\n\n435\n00:23:04.560 --> 00:23:05.600\nI realized there\n\n436\n00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:10.200\nwas a lot of people that were hired without my interviewing them. And they were\n\n437\n00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:10.960\njust not the\n\n438\n00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:16.080\nright people. And the decisions were being made were not the right decisions.\n\n439\n00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:17.200\nAnd, you know,\n\n440\n00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:21.300\nthank goodness that I went through the misery I did. So there's a reason\n\n441\n00:23:21.300 --> 00:23:22.560\neverybody for why,\n\n442\n00:23:22.560 --> 00:23:26.670\nyou know, when you're miserable, that's when you have to just say, okay, now\n\n443\n00:23:26.670 --> 00:23:27.760\nwhat? You know,\n\n444\n00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:31.580\nand it's always a financial thing. Like, I don't want to tell people, just\n\n445\n00:23:31.580 --> 00:23:32.720\nleave, just quit. No,\n\n446\n00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.890\nyou've got to feel secure that you could still pay your rent and mortgage and\n\n447\n00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:37.680\nknow when the time\n\n448\n00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:42.020\nis right. You know, what's a key learning from building Bobby Brown that you\n\n449\n00:23:42.020 --> 00:23:43.120\nknow you've taken\n\n450\n00:23:43.120 --> 00:23:48.160\nas you're building this Jones Road business? I mean, it's so funny because, you\n\n451\n00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:49.360\nknow, with all the\n\n452\n00:23:49.360 --> 00:23:56.190\nyears, you know, difference, it's the same theories, but it's how people are\n\n453\n00:23:56.190 --> 00:23:58.560\nabsorbing information now\n\n454\n00:23:58.560 --> 00:24:04.460\nand how we just do things differently now. And it's so much more modern and it\n\n455\n00:24:04.460 --> 00:24:05.520\n's so much more\n\n456\n00:24:05.520 --> 00:24:11.870\nof the time. So, you know, key learnings are making sure that you put only the\n\n457\n00:24:11.870 --> 00:24:13.440\nbest product out there.\n\n458\n00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:19.840\nI mean, there's just, you just have to. And, and you know what? I just canceled\n\n459\n00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:21.200\na launch three days\n\n460\n00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:26.450\nbefore we were going to launch because I realized, and it was not an easy\n\n461\n00:24:26.450 --> 00:24:28.400\ndecision because I realized\n\n462\n00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:34.700\nit was a product that needed a few more months to fix a color for certain skin\n\n463\n00:24:34.700 --> 00:24:37.520\ntone. So, I just had\n\n464\n00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:42.600\na call my son and said, we can't do this. And now we've had a move and shift,\n\n465\n00:24:42.600 --> 00:24:43.440\nbut it never would\n\n466\n00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:48.330\nhappen in like a big giant company that, you know, the retail numbers are\n\n467\n00:24:48.330 --> 00:24:50.320\nwaiting for you and all\n\n468\n00:24:50.320 --> 00:24:54.800\nthe, you know, department stores and magazines like, you know, but it's\n\n469\n00:24:54.800 --> 00:24:57.280\ndifferent now. We pulled it\n\n470\n00:24:57.280 --> 00:25:01.070\nand we'll bring it back when it's right. You've told me before that you love\n\n471\n00:25:01.070 --> 00:25:02.080\ndoing things that\n\n472\n00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:07.250\nyou don't know how to do. I mean, that's, that's a unique characteristic. What\n\n473\n00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:08.640\n's the last new thing\n\n474\n00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.560\nyou got yourself into? And what's the biggest, biggest thing it taught you?\n\n475\n00:25:12.560 --> 00:25:17.720\nWell, the last project I did, I, you know, my husband and I have a hotel in\n\n476\n00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:18.400\nMontclair called\n\n477\n00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:23.780\nthe George. And I met this really nice woman that was having breakfast. I asked\n\n478\n00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:24.800\nher what she did,\n\n479\n00:25:24.800 --> 00:25:28.860\nand she told me she was the CMO of William Sonoma. So first they asked me to\n\n480\n00:25:28.860 --> 00:25:29.760\njoin on the board,\n\n481\n00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:34.770\nwhich I, I said, there's no way I'm going to sit there and, you know, on a\n\n482\n00:25:34.770 --> 00:25:36.240\nboard four times a year.\n\n483\n00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.240\nAnd I know I'm not going to happen. And then she asked if I wanted to do a\n\n484\n00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:41.840\ncollaboration of,\n\n485\n00:25:41.840 --> 00:25:46.640\nyou know, to create these products for William Sonoma home. And so I did it.\n\n486\n00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.080\nAnd, you know, we\n\n487\n00:25:48.080 --> 00:25:53.790\ndesigned these products. It was so interesting, so fun. I don't know anything\n\n488\n00:25:53.790 --> 00:25:55.040\nexcept I made things\n\n489\n00:25:55.040 --> 00:25:59.160\nI really like. And now I'm waiting to see how well they did, hopefully, so we\n\n490\n00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:00.560\ncould do more products.\n\n491\n00:26:00.560 --> 00:26:05.140\nAnd speaking of new things, I understand you're a really big deal on TikTok,\n\n492\n00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:05.440\nyou know,\n\n493\n00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:11.440\ntalk a bit more about how you've been using social media to grow the brand. You\n\n494\n00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:11.920\n've talked a little\n\n495\n00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:16.520\nbit about it. Say more. Well, when we launched, it was really Instagram. You\n\n496\n00:26:16.520 --> 00:26:18.560\nknow, I opened up a\n\n497\n00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:24.740\nwell curated Instagram the morning that we launched. I used my personal one to\n\n498\n00:26:24.740 --> 00:26:26.160\ndrive people to the\n\n499\n00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:32.080\nJones Road one. And, you know, there wasn't TikTok then. And then TikTok became\n\n500\n00:26:32.080 --> 00:26:35.360\na thing. And, you know,\n\n501\n00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:40.000\nit was actually my son that said, Mom, and he literally held a phone up in my\n\n502\n00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:40.880\nface. Go ahead,\n\n503\n00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.590\nMom. What do you want to say? And I was like, without thinking, I said, Hey,\n\n504\n00:26:44.590 --> 00:26:46.000\nguys, it's Bobby here.\n\n505\n00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:50.480\nI'm new to TikTok. So please help me. Tell me what you want to see for me. What\n\n506\n00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:51.120\nvideos,\n\n507\n00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:56.480\nwhat you want me to do. And I really appreciate it. And I got bombarded with\n\n508\n00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:57.760\npeople asking questions\n\n509\n00:26:57.760 --> 00:27:01.370\nand saying, Oh my God, thank God you're here. Because I had been, you know, a\n\n510\n00:27:01.370 --> 00:27:02.960\nlittle quiet for the\n\n511\n00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:10.440\nfew years earlier. And a lot of women of, you know, 40s, 50s and 60s were on\n\n512\n00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:11.600\nTikTok. As, you know,\n\n513\n00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:15.550\nand they needed someone to teach them how to not look tired or how to keep\n\n514\n00:27:15.550 --> 00:27:16.400\ntheir eye mate,\n\n515\n00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:23.000\nwhatever it was. And we ended up really like blowing up the business. And it\n\n516\n00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:24.240\nwas great. We ran\n\n517\n00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.130\nout of products. I went back on TikTok and said, see what you guys did. Now you\n\n518\n00:27:28.130 --> 00:27:29.200\ngot to wait till we\n\n519\n00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:35.650\nmake them again. And you know, TikTok is not as working as it did a couple\n\n520\n00:27:35.650 --> 00:27:37.200\nyears ago. You know,\n\n521\n00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.940\nwe're still on it. And I, you know, I've done a bunch of things that have gone\n\n522\n00:27:40.940 --> 00:27:42.160\nviral. But now the\n\n523\n00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:46.500\nnewest thing is substack. Do you know about substack? I have not for taking\n\n524\n00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:47.440\nthat. Yeah,\n\n525\n00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.980\nsubstack, honestly, if it could be an interesting thing, even to have one of\n\n526\n00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:52.320\nyour guys open you up\n\n527\n00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:57.120\na substack, because it's just, it's like really like newsletters. And it's\n\n528\n00:27:57.120 --> 00:27:58.720\ninformation. And there's\n\n529\n00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:04.260\nreally dedicated audience on that. So more and more, we're leaning into subst\n\n530\n00:28:04.260 --> 00:28:04.880\nack and,\n\n531\n00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:11.220\nand YouTube. So whatever is there, you know, we lean into it until it doesn't\n\n532\n00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:12.080\nwork anymore.\n\n533\n00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:15.380\nI think you just gave me a great idea. I think I'd go on TikTok and say, Hey\n\n534\n00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:16.160\nguys, you know,\n\n535\n00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:19.420\nwhat do you want to know about leadership and, you know, fire away? That's a\n\n536\n00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:20.480\ngood idea.\n\n537\n00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:24.280\nBut that's honestly how it works. And then you know, you might get two people\n\n538\n00:28:24.280 --> 00:28:24.880\nanswering you,\n\n539\n00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:28.690\nyou might get 200 people, you might get, you know, more than that, you don't\n\n540\n00:28:28.690 --> 00:28:30.640\nknow. And you know,\n\n541\n00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:35.520\nand it's, I think it's a great way to connect with people. And you, and the\n\n542\n00:28:35.520 --> 00:28:36.400\npeople are all over\n\n543\n00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:40.000\nthe world. You know, they're in India, they're in Thailand. It's really\n\n544\n00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.720\ninteresting.\n\n545\n00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:46.420\nYou know, there's this sort of law in, in, with brands that, you know, almost,\n\n546\n00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:46.960\nit's the 20,\n\n547\n00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:52.720\n80 rule 20% of the users count for 80% of your, your volume. How do you think\n\n548\n00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:54.160\nabout that in your\n\n549\n00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:59.590\nbusiness serving your super core or heavy user base? Is that something that you\n\n550\n00:28:59.590 --> 00:29:00.240\n, you really,\n\n551\n00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.960\nthink about or do you just let it happen? Well, I, I let it happen. If my son\n\n552\n00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:05.120\nwas\n\n553\n00:29:05.120 --> 00:29:09.620\nhere, he'd have an answer. He thinks about it. And you know, I know that, you\n\n554\n00:29:09.620 --> 00:29:10.800\nknow, we, we launched\n\n555\n00:29:10.800 --> 00:29:16.020\nTV ads a year ago. And ever since, honestly, ever between the social media and\n\n556\n00:29:16.020 --> 00:29:16.880\nthe TV ads,\n\n557\n00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:21.480\nyou know, we're all over cable. I can't go anywhere without someone stopping me\n\n558\n00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:22.320\n. So it's,\n\n559\n00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:27.870\nit's really done, you know, amazing awareness. And, but you know what, there's\n\n560\n00:29:27.870 --> 00:29:28.160\nstill\n\n561\n00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:32.800\nplenty of people that still think I'm with Bobby Brown cosmetics. Like there\n\n562\n00:29:32.800 --> 00:29:34.080\nare people out there\n\n563\n00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:38.470\nthat have never heard of Jones Road. So to me, new customers are the biggest\n\n564\n00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:39.520\nopportunity.\n\n565\n00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:44.650\nWe have incredible loyal customers that buy and buy and buy because they love\n\n566\n00:29:44.650 --> 00:29:45.920\nit. They don't need\n\n567\n00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:50.650\nany more than they have, you know, replenishment, you know, a couple times a\n\n568\n00:29:50.650 --> 00:29:52.640\nyear. But so I'm all\n\n569\n00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.010\nabout new customers. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. When you have a new\n\n570\n00:29:56.010 --> 00:29:57.120\nbusiness, you want to\n\n571\n00:29:57.120 --> 00:29:59.980\nmaximize the trial. Once you get the trial, then you can look at your user base\n\n572\n00:29:59.980 --> 00:30:00.720\n. And that's really\n\n573\n00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:04.890\nkind of what you're doing here. You know, and you, you know, back to teaching\n\n574\n00:30:04.890 --> 00:30:05.920\none more time here,\n\n575\n00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:11.180\nyou know, you've always been one to teach more than sell. You say you teach\n\n576\n00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:12.160\nmore than sell.\n\n577\n00:30:12.800 --> 00:30:16.720\nWhat do you mean by that? Mean, I don't want to be known as the person that's\n\n578\n00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:18.320\nhawking my products.\n\n579\n00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:22.960\nI want to, I want, and I, you know, I was on the Today Show for 14 years. So,\n\n580\n00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:24.080\nand I, and I took\n\n581\n00:30:24.080 --> 00:30:28.300\nthat very serious. I was the beauty editor of the Today Show. I was, I never\n\n582\n00:30:28.300 --> 00:30:29.680\nmentioned my products,\n\n583\n00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:34.650\nnever mentioned my brand, but I taught women, you know, whatever topic it was.\n\n584\n00:30:34.650 --> 00:30:36.000\nLook how easy this is.\n\n585\n00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:40.080\nIf you find a foundation that matches your skin, and this is what you look for.\n\n586\n00:30:40.080 --> 00:30:40.480\nAnd, you know,\n\n587\n00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.960\nI had two to four minutes to tell them this. And then it just so happened.\n\n588\n00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:46.000\nEverybody ran to the\n\n589\n00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:52.060\ncounters. Bobby on the Today Show talked about a yellow base foundation. And my\n\n590\n00:30:52.060 --> 00:30:53.040\nteam at, you know,\n\n591\n00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:57.410\nat the store knew what that meant. And, and so that was incredible. So I don't\n\n592\n00:30:57.410 --> 00:30:58.560\nwant to be\n\n593\n00:30:58.560 --> 00:31:04.000\nthe one that says, and three easy payments on QVC. Even when I was on QVC,\n\n594\n00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:05.120\nwhich had a giant\n\n595\n00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:10.230\naudience, I was the teacher. And that's just who I am. Something that I've come\n\n596\n00:31:10.230 --> 00:31:10.720\nto know and\n\n597\n00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.890\nappreciate about you is that one of your great gifts is to being able to look\n\n598\n00:31:14.890 --> 00:31:16.080\nat something and\n\n599\n00:31:16.080 --> 00:31:20.860\nsee how it could be better. Tell me a story about how you're doing that right\n\n600\n00:31:20.860 --> 00:31:21.440\nnow.\n\n601\n00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:26.450\nWell, it's, it's actually a nice, you know, it's a positive thing, but it's\n\n602\n00:31:26.450 --> 00:31:27.520\nalso a curse.\n\n603\n00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:32.410\nBecause I can't walk into any place without my mind saying, oh, I could do this\n\n604\n00:31:32.410 --> 00:31:33.200\nbetter. You know,\n\n605\n00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:39.360\nwhether it's a hotel room or, you know, my living room. You know, I think if I\n\n606\n00:31:39.360 --> 00:31:40.480\njust did this, it would\n\n607\n00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:45.170\nbe better. So it, you know, I'd like to be a little more Zen truthfully. And I\n\n608\n00:31:45.170 --> 00:31:46.640\ndid buy a magazine that\n\n609\n00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:53.040\nteaches meditation, but I haven't read it yet. And that's the true story. But,\n\n610\n00:31:53.040 --> 00:31:53.360\nyou know,\n\n611\n00:31:53.360 --> 00:31:59.830\nnormally I look at these things and I'm like, hmm, what if the cap would do\n\n612\n00:31:59.830 --> 00:32:00.880\nthis and then you\n\n613\n00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:05.120\nwouldn't be looking for it when it's open? What if it was something that you\n\n614\n00:32:05.120 --> 00:32:06.160\njust squeeze? So I'm\n\n615\n00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:11.070\nalways kind of thinking how to do it better. Even when my team puts things in a\n\n616\n00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:12.560\nbox to send to a,\n\n617\n00:32:12.560 --> 00:32:16.280\nan influencer or a celebrity, noise like, can you send me a picture? And I'm\n\n618\n00:32:16.280 --> 00:32:16.960\nlike, all right,\n\n619\n00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:21.740\nguys, look, if you just put more this and do this, I'm like, oh my God, you're\n\n620\n00:32:21.740 --> 00:32:22.800\nso right, it looks better.\n\n621\n00:32:22.800 --> 00:32:26.000\nI'm not a micromanager, but I guess I am.\n\n622\n00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:30.000\nBut you're extremely prolific. You know, you talked about the number of books\n\n623\n00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:31.040\nthat you've written\n\n624\n00:32:31.040 --> 00:32:36.240\nand you've created countless products. How do you foster your own creativity?\n\n625\n00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:42.300\nGosh, how do I calm it down as the problem? You know, I mean, I just, I don't\n\n626\n00:32:42.300 --> 00:32:42.800\nhave to\n\n627\n00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:53.520\ntry. I'm really curious. I'm incredibly visual. And I, you know, I get a lot of\n\n628\n00:32:54.560 --> 00:33:01.200\ninspiration on social media. I do. I literally, I, you know, I search, I Google\n\n629\n00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.440\n, you know, I don't\n\n630\n00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.220\neven Google anymore. I just, I just search on social media because I love\n\n631\n00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:06.240\nseeing pictures,\n\n632\n00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.160\nwhether it's a hotel I'm interested in visiting, whether it's a restaurant. I\n\n633\n00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:11.440\nlike to see everything\n\n634\n00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:17.090\nand that helps me, you know, form an opinion. And I'm always like passing the\n\n635\n00:33:17.090 --> 00:33:18.160\nthings I find on\n\n636\n00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:22.350\nInstagram to like the team, my team say, Oh my God, it'd be so cool if we did\n\n637\n00:33:22.350 --> 00:33:24.240\nthis. Oh, we love that.\n\n638\n00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:29.600\nAnd so I communicate through visuals. How do you bring out the creativity and\n\n639\n00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:29.920\nothers?\n\n640\n00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:34.720\nYou know, a lot of people don't see themselves as creative, but when they get\n\n641\n00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:35.440\nthe right kind of\n\n642\n00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.240\nprodding, they become creative. You know, how do you bring it out of people?\n\n643\n00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.680\nWell, I recently just said to the girl that is doing our packaging that is\n\n644\n00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:46.240\nreally, you know,\n\n645\n00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.400\nshe's been showing me a lot of different packaging from the packaging industry.\n\n646\n00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:50.720\nAnd I'm like,\n\n647\n00:33:51.280 --> 00:33:56.960\ngo to an art store, go to a gourmet food store. You know, I asked her, she ever\n\n648\n00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:57.440\nheard a dean\n\n649\n00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:01.640\nin Deluca's. I used to get a lot of ideas going to that store and just look at\n\n650\n00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:02.720\ntheir packaging,\n\n651\n00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:06.950\nlook at the way they're doing things different and what could be brought in.\n\n652\n00:34:06.950 --> 00:34:07.200\nAnd you know,\n\n653\n00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:13.530\nat Jones Road, we don't make packaging. We use stock because we like to keep\n\n654\n00:34:13.530 --> 00:34:14.640\nthe cost down to\n\n655\n00:34:14.640 --> 00:34:18.370\nour customers. So we don't, you know, spend a lot of money on it, but you've\n\n656\n00:34:18.370 --> 00:34:19.600\ngot to be creative.\n\n657\n00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:24.360\nAnd you know what, you've got to look outside of your industry, sometimes to\n\n658\n00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:25.680\nbring creativity in.\n\n659\n00:34:25.680 --> 00:34:29.760\nYou're an elite business mind. I mean, there's no question about it because you\n\n660\n00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.320\n've built great\n\n661\n00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:35.540\nbusinesses and you know, you're obviously got the creativity. Do you push\n\n662\n00:34:35.540 --> 00:34:36.800\nyourself to get even\n\n663\n00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.500\nbetter on the business side or do you delegate that? Well, it depends what it\n\n664\n00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:41.040\nis. I mean,\n\n665\n00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:45.250\nI'm really good with things I'm interested in. But if I'm not interested in it,\n\n666\n00:34:45.250 --> 00:34:45.520\nyou know,\n\n667\n00:34:45.520 --> 00:34:51.520\nI'm not so good at it. So, you know, I would really like to find an amazing\n\n668\n00:34:51.520 --> 00:34:52.400\nbusiness coach\n\n669\n00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:58.210\nfor some of my top tier employees that, you know, our creative director is\n\n670\n00:34:58.210 --> 00:35:01.520\nliterally 27 years old.\n\n671\n00:35:01.520 --> 00:35:05.110\nI don't even know she's that old yet, but she's phenomenal, but she's got a\n\n672\n00:35:05.110 --> 00:35:06.160\nwhole team she has to\n\n673\n00:35:06.160 --> 00:35:10.980\nlead. So, you know, it's, it's, we don't have, you know, the wherewithal or the\n\n674\n00:35:10.980 --> 00:35:11.840\ntime to do that\n\n675\n00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:16.880\nright now. But it's definitely on my, on my list because I do think people have\n\n676\n00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:17.760\nthings that they,\n\n677\n00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.560\nyou know, if they're taught, they'll learn. You were in this corporate\n\n678\n00:35:22.560 --> 00:35:24.560\nenvironment with Estolata and\n\n679\n00:35:24.560 --> 00:35:30.690\nyou've stayed with that company building the Bobby Brown brand for, you know,\n\n680\n00:35:30.690 --> 00:35:31.840\n22 years or so.\n\n681\n00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.730\nIn that environment, you know, when you got everything coming at you and, you\n\n682\n00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:36.480\nknow, different,\n\n683\n00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:41.940\nyou're different, you know, how did you stay true to yourself? Was it easy for\n\n684\n00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:42.640\nyou to do?\n\n685\n00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:48.500\nYes, it was easy for me because I can't be something I'm not. It just doesn't\n\n686\n00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:49.200\nfit. I mean,\n\n687\n00:35:49.200 --> 00:35:53.450\nI tried that early on in my career, you know, to be the cool person at the\n\n688\n00:35:53.450 --> 00:35:54.240\nfashion shoot,\n\n689\n00:35:54.240 --> 00:35:58.880\nto be the corporate person, to be, I just, it didn't fit. It didn't feel good.\n\n690\n00:35:58.880 --> 00:35:59.680\nSo, I always,\n\n691\n00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:04.470\nyou know, I only know how to be myself. I'm, I only, I'm not afraid to ask to\n\n692\n00:36:04.470 --> 00:36:05.280\nsay, I don't know what\n\n693\n00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:08.980\nyou're talking about, you know, because people talk like they're the smartest\n\n694\n00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:09.760\npeople in the\n\n695\n00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.190\nuniverse. And sometimes I have no idea what they're saying. But when they\n\n696\n00:36:13.190 --> 00:36:14.000\nexplain it to me,\n\n697\n00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:19.740\nI'm like, ah, I understand what you're saying is this. And often that, you know\n\n698\n00:36:19.740 --> 00:36:20.400\n, like the big\n\n699\n00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:24.720\nguys would laugh at me because it was so, oh, so sweet that she just, you know,\n\n700\n00:36:24.720 --> 00:36:25.600\ntranslated. I'm\n\n701\n00:36:25.600 --> 00:36:29.620\nlike, yeah, but at least that's how I understand. And that's how I'm going to\n\n702\n00:36:29.620 --> 00:36:30.480\nsolve, that's how\n\n703\n00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.550\nI'm going to solve this problem that all you guys are doing is talking about it\n\n704\n00:36:34.550 --> 00:36:35.200\n. I'm going to find\n\n705\n00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:40.480\na solution for it. Yes, I know we're, we're, we're down $3 million, but by my C\n\n706\n00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:42.320\nFO at the time,\n\n707\n00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:46.960\nwe're still one of my closest friends, explaining to me that, that some of our\n\n708\n00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:48.080\nproducts do a million\n\n709\n00:36:48.080 --> 00:36:53.790\ndollars apiece. And the new products, you know, have cannibalized everything\n\n710\n00:36:53.790 --> 00:36:54.880\nelse. I'm like, well,\n\n711\n00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.920\nwhy don't I just come up with two new colors of Bronzer's? That'll bring you a\n\n712\n00:36:57.920 --> 00:36:58.640\ncouple million\n\n713\n00:36:58.640 --> 00:37:03.760\ndollars. And he's like, okay, we did it. And we made the year because of it.\n\n714\n00:37:03.760 --> 00:37:04.720\nBut, but he,\n\n715\n00:37:04.720 --> 00:37:08.720\nhe took the time to explain to me what was happening instead of someone, you\n\n716\n00:37:08.720 --> 00:37:10.000\nknow, some pompous person\n\n717\n00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:14.080\nbeing, you know, you don't know what I'm talking about. You know, you've talked\n\n718\n00:37:14.080 --> 00:37:15.120\nabout the ability\n\n719\n00:37:15.120 --> 00:37:19.590\nto simplify, bring things back to their core essence. And you know, you take\n\n720\n00:37:19.590 --> 00:37:20.560\nthese things that\n\n721\n00:37:20.560 --> 00:37:25.710\ncould be seemingly complex and you kind of make them simple for people. How do\n\n722\n00:37:25.710 --> 00:37:27.680\nyou coach people on,\n\n723\n00:37:27.680 --> 00:37:32.650\non how to simplify things? How do you personally break things down to the, the\n\n724\n00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:33.600\nbare essence?\n\n725\n00:37:33.600 --> 00:37:38.640\nWell, first of all, I am not on Slack, which my entire team is on Slack. If I\n\n726\n00:37:38.640 --> 00:37:39.200\nwant to know\n\n727\n00:37:39.200 --> 00:37:44.240\nsomething, I pick up the phone and I call and I ask a question. I don't even\n\n728\n00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:45.200\nlike the emails\n\n729\n00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:48.250\nthat go back and forth. And when there's, you know, a big email chain, I just\n\n730\n00:37:48.250 --> 00:37:49.120\npick up the phone and\n\n731\n00:37:49.120 --> 00:37:53.230\ncall, you know, someone to kind of discuss it. And I just don't want to be on a\n\n732\n00:37:53.230 --> 00:37:56.240\ntext. So I, I just\n\n733\n00:37:56.240 --> 00:38:00.590\nlook at things and I'm like, okay, what is the real issue here? What are our\n\n734\n00:38:00.590 --> 00:38:02.000\noptions? How can we\n\n735\n00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.500\nget this done? What makes the most sense? I don't know if this is like a\n\n736\n00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:08.080\nquality I have because I'm\n\n737\n00:38:08.080 --> 00:38:14.200\nfrom Chicago, you know, like the Midwest is very, you know, I know it's not the\n\n738\n00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:15.680\ncenter of our country,\n\n739\n00:38:15.680 --> 00:38:20.290\nbut it's, you know, it's a very simple place to be from. We'll be back with the\n\n740\n00:38:20.290 --> 00:38:20.640\nrest of my\n\n741\n00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:24.550\nconversation with Bobby Brown in just a moment. Now talking to Bobby, I'm\n\n742\n00:38:24.550 --> 00:38:25.840\nreminded of another\n\n743\n00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:30.850\ncreative outside the box thinker. And that's Jesse Cole, the guy behind the\n\n744\n00:38:30.850 --> 00:38:32.480\nsensational Savannah\n\n745\n00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:38.710\nbananas baseball team. I love the way he and his team find great ideas and they\n\n746\n00:38:38.710 --> 00:38:39.600\ngo after them\n\n747\n00:38:39.600 --> 00:38:44.640\nwith a zeal like I've never seen. We believe attention beats marketing 1000% of\n\n748\n00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:45.360\ntime.\n\n749\n00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.860\nWe don't have a marketing plan, David. We have an attention plan. So we get\n\n750\n00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:50.320\ntogether as our staff\n\n751\n00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.810\nevery Monday, today in a little bit, we'll have our OTT meeting, which is over\n\n752\n00:38:53.810 --> 00:38:54.720\nthe top ideas and\n\n753\n00:38:54.720 --> 00:38:58.420\noutrageous ideas we can do with the field to create attention and create more\n\n754\n00:38:58.420 --> 00:38:58.960\nfans.\n\n755\n00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:02.960\nAnd so that is our entire plan that we think about what are we doing that's\n\n756\n00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:03.680\ngoing to be unique and\n\n757\n00:39:03.680 --> 00:39:06.910\ndifferent. And as you know, David, obviously with all the different brands you\n\n758\n00:39:06.910 --> 00:39:07.840\nhad with young brands\n\n759\n00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:11.690\nand Taco Bell, especially you thought dramatically different with everything.\n\n760\n00:39:11.690 --> 00:39:12.400\nIt was what will this\n\n761\n00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:15.990\nproduct do to create some attention unique and get people talking. And we're so\n\n762\n00:39:15.990 --> 00:39:16.640\nobsessed with\n\n763\n00:39:16.640 --> 00:39:21.050\nthat. We learned that from PT Barnum, Walt Disney, get people talking. So that\n\n764\n00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:22.400\n's part of the model\n\n765\n00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.360\nthat we think about. And you mentioned dance, the New York Times wrote a great\n\n766\n00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:26.240\narticle on that.\n\n767\n00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:29.620\nYou know, it started with a test, players dancing, could our players dance\n\n768\n00:39:29.620 --> 00:39:30.160\nevery game?\n\n769\n00:39:30.160 --> 00:39:33.440\nThen could we have a break dancing coach? Then could we have a banana,\n\n770\n00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:36.880\nnana's senior citizen dance team? And now we have a dancing umpire when he\n\n771\n00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:37.360\nstrikes out\n\n772\n00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.480\nsomeone, he does a full fledged dance while he's striking out a guy. So it's\n\n773\n00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:41.440\nkeep taking it to the\n\n774\n00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.430\nnext level, which then creates more attention. Go back and listen to my entire\n\n775\n00:39:45.430 --> 00:39:46.320\nconversation with\n\n776\n00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:52.270\nJesse, episode 96 here on How Leaders Lead. You know, it's very hard to walk\n\n777\n00:39:52.270 --> 00:39:53.360\naway from something\n\n778\n00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:58.120\nthat you built, like Bobby Brown. I mean, you built that brand. And now here\n\n779\n00:39:58.120 --> 00:40:00.320\nyou are at Jones Road.\n\n780\n00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.940\nYou know, so when you when you think about it, what's been the best part of\n\n781\n00:40:04.940 --> 00:40:06.880\nthat experience for you?\n\n782\n00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:11.130\nWhich the first or the second part of the whole thing? No, the best part of\n\n783\n00:40:11.130 --> 00:40:13.280\nwalking away and\n\n784\n00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:20.450\nmoving to Jones Road. Well, the best part is success as a bitch. You know,\n\n785\n00:40:20.450 --> 00:40:21.440\nsuccess, it's like,\n\n786\n00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:26.680\nokay, I did this. And you know, I didn't do it alone, but I didn't do it with\n\n787\n00:40:26.680 --> 00:40:27.760\nall the, you know,\n\n788\n00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.680\npeople that thought they were responsible for the success, you know, the first\n\n789\n00:40:31.680 --> 00:40:33.840\ntime. So I did it\n\n790\n00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:41.840\nmy way. And guess what? It worked better. And you know, it just makes me feel\n\n791\n00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:43.360\ngood that I'm not a\n\n792\n00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:48.900\none hit wonder. You know, David, I could have been easily. I could have been a\n\n793\n00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:49.840\none hit wonder,\n\n794\n00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:53.360\nand that would have been an okay thing too. But I'm, you know, I'm not.\n\n795\n00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:58.080\nDo you wake up with that kind of anxiety? Does it? When you go to bed at night,\n\n796\n00:40:58.080 --> 00:40:58.800\ndo you think about,\n\n797\n00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:03.600\noh, what if I'm a one hit wonder? None of that, that didn't drive you. So what\n\n798\n00:41:03.600 --> 00:41:04.320\nis it that drove\n\n799\n00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:09.570\nyou then? It wasn't, it wasn't fear then, right? No, it was, it was curiosity,\n\n800\n00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:11.120\nexcitement. It's the,\n\n801\n00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:19.070\nit's the naive, like, thoughts that are, wow, I bet this will work. I think\n\n802\n00:41:19.070 --> 00:41:20.720\npeople will like this.\n\n803\n00:41:20.720 --> 00:41:26.930\nWhy don't I, I could do it this way. This makes such sense. And it's so simple,\n\n804\n00:41:26.930 --> 00:41:27.520\nyou know, like,\n\n805\n00:41:27.520 --> 00:41:32.530\nyou just, you have an idea, you tell someone, they make it, you work on it for\n\n806\n00:41:32.530 --> 00:41:33.520\na while, and then you're\n\n807\n00:41:33.520 --> 00:41:37.300\nlike, okay, what are we going to put it in? How are we going to tell people\n\n808\n00:41:37.300 --> 00:41:38.720\nabout it? Like all those,\n\n809\n00:41:38.720 --> 00:41:45.120\nthey're all problem solving things. And how do we do it in a new way? Like,\n\n810\n00:41:45.120 --> 00:41:45.760\nlike, I'll never\n\n811\n00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:49.500\nforget during the pandemic, we launch face pencils, you know, these little\n\n812\n00:41:49.500 --> 00:41:51.040\npencils that cover spots,\n\n813\n00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:55.170\ndark circles. And you know, they put them in a box, and I always have to\n\n814\n00:41:55.170 --> 00:41:56.320\napprove how it looks.\n\n815\n00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:00.200\nAnd I said, this looks really boring. So I said, all right, take them out of\n\n816\n00:42:00.200 --> 00:42:01.600\nthe outside box,\n\n817\n00:42:01.600 --> 00:42:05.920\njust have the pencils, and put them, you know, put the whole range together,\n\n818\n00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:07.520\nand go to, go to the,\n\n819\n00:42:07.520 --> 00:42:12.480\nthe, go to the store and get me those stasher bags, which are these clear, you\n\n820\n00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:13.200\nknow, rubber,\n\n821\n00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:18.760\nplastic bags, put them in there. So when the makeup artists or influencers get\n\n822\n00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:19.200\nthem,\n\n823\n00:42:19.200 --> 00:42:23.890\nthey open it up and they just, you could see all the colors, it looks good. It\n\n824\n00:42:23.890 --> 00:42:25.120\nwon't break because\n\n825\n00:42:25.120 --> 00:42:29.510\nthe bags are cushiony. And they're going to put it right in their makeup bag,\n\n826\n00:42:29.510 --> 00:42:30.640\nwhich they did.\n\n827\n00:42:30.640 --> 00:42:35.000\nAnd it was a huge success, because we did it not the way other people do it. We\n\n828\n00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:35.680\ndid it in this,\n\n829\n00:42:35.680 --> 00:42:40.010\nlike, yeah, that makes total sense. And it didn't cost a lot of money, but it\n\n830\n00:42:40.010 --> 00:42:40.320\nwas\n\n831\n00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:43.760\na better visual impact. And it was just more practical.\n\n832\n00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.250\nThat's great. You know, Bobby, this is, I do it would be funny that always says\n\n833\n00:42:47.250 --> 00:42:47.360\n,\n\n834\n00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:51.100\ncatch it up with you. And I want to have some more with my lightning round of\n\n835\n00:42:51.100 --> 00:42:51.680\nquestions. Are\n\n836\n00:42:51.680 --> 00:42:56.640\nyou ready for this? I'm ready. What three words best describe you? Quick, nice,\n\n837\n00:42:56.640 --> 00:42:58.320\nand I think funny.\n\n838\n00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:03.280\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be?\n\n839\n00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:07.600\nLet's see. That's between someone really gorgeous and really smart and really\n\n840\n00:43:07.600 --> 00:43:08.240\ntall.\n\n841\n00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:12.160\nAll right. I think I'll be a basketball player. I'll be an athlete.\n\n842\n00:43:12.160 --> 00:43:17.200\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve? When people don't tell the truth,\n\n843\n00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:21.600\nI don't like when people are afraid to tell you the truth.\n\n844\n00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:25.760\nWho would play you in a movie? Well, would it be\n\n845\n00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.760\nDemi Moore? People always said, I kind of look like Demi Moore. Would it have\n\n846\n00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:30.960\nbeen a young\n\n847\n00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:37.190\nAli McGraw? And most people my age have done too much cosmetic surgery, so I\n\n848\n00:43:37.190 --> 00:43:37.840\ndon't know.\n\n849\n00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:43.760\nI'm curious, you know, what do you give out to trick or treaters that come to\n\n850\n00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:44.400\nyour house?\n\n851\n00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:49.520\nWell, for decades, I gave out makeup. Gave out makeup. My husband gave big\n\n852\n00:43:49.520 --> 00:43:50.480\ncandy bars.\n\n853\n00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:56.720\nI gave out makeup. At one time, we had to get like 2,200 or 2,400 pieces of\n\n854\n00:43:56.720 --> 00:43:57.360\nmakeup.\n\n855\n00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:02.720\nBut we moved and when people come to the door, we're like, no, Bobby doesn't\n\n856\n00:44:02.720 --> 00:44:03.920\nlive here anymore.\n\n857\n00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:08.170\nSo we had to stop. You've had so many celebrities that have used your products\n\n858\n00:44:08.170 --> 00:44:08.720\nover the year,\n\n859\n00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:16.960\nwhich have really wowed you. I mean, you know, Michelle Obama, always amazing.\n\n860\n00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:17.280\nI mean,\n\n861\n00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:22.480\nthere's been so many that have wowed me. I just, it's amazing when you meet\n\n862\n00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:23.920\nthese people that\n\n863\n00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.560\nare larger than anything and they're just the nicest people in the world.\n\n864\n00:44:28.560 --> 00:44:32.400\nWhat was one of your last, I can't believe it's happening to me moments.\n\n865\n00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:38.560\nI and my family got invited to the Paul McCartney concert in London and to sit\n\n866\n00:44:38.560 --> 00:44:40.080\nin the VIP seats\n\n867\n00:44:40.080 --> 00:44:45.760\nwith Mrs. McCartney's friends and family. They were people that had, you know,\n\n868\n00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.120\none name like Ringo\n\n869\n00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:54.160\nand Ron Woods and it was really kind of, you know, and the backstage party\n\n870\n00:44:54.160 --> 00:44:54.800\nafterwards.\n\n871\n00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:57.040\nThat was a giant pinch me moment. Oh, yeah.\n\n872\n00:44:57.040 --> 00:45:00.160\nWhat's the one thing you do just for you?\n\n873\n00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:08.480\nExercise. I am a, I love, love, love to push myself into exercise or I love to\n\n874\n00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:13.360\ndecide to not exercise and just chill out in the morning.\n\n875\n00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:17.120\nYour most prized possession. My three children.\n\n876\n00:45:17.120 --> 00:45:21.600\nIf I turn the radio on, oh, there you go. If I turn on the radio in your car,\n\n877\n00:45:21.600 --> 00:45:22.480\nwhat would I hear?\n\n878\n00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:28.870\nYou will hear music that you won't believe would be on my on my Spotify. I'm a\n\n879\n00:45:28.870 --> 00:45:29.680\nhip hop\n\n880\n00:45:29.680 --> 00:45:32.000\nlover. I just love hip hop music.\n\n881\n00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.360\nWhat's something about you? Few people would know.\n\n882\n00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:39.290\nI don't know with Instagram. Everyone knows everything. I danced on stage with\n\n883\n00:45:39.290 --> 00:45:40.400\nFlowRida\n\n884\n00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:46.800\nand I danced on stage with Salt and Pepper. I was, I was in a motorcade once\n\n885\n00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:47.760\nwith, you know,\n\n886\n00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:54.720\nsecretary of defense, you know, Mr. Panetta. So with a lot of weird moments.\n\n887\n00:45:54.720 --> 00:45:57.040\nWhat's one of your daily rituals that you never miss?\n\n888\n00:45:57.040 --> 00:46:02.960\nDouble espresso and a cap of half and half after a giant glass of water or\n\n889\n00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:03.840\ngreen juice.\n\n890\n00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:07.890\nYou're so healthy. That's so great. All right. That's the end of the lightning\n\n891\n00:46:07.890 --> 00:46:08.320\nround. Just a\n\n892\n00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.360\nfew more questions. I'll let you go. Yeah. We talked about all these phenomenal\n\n893\n00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:12.800\nhits that\n\n894\n00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:17.760\nyou've had. You know, so many successes is, is, what was the biggest thing that\n\n895\n00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:18.720\ndidn't go right\n\n896\n00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:21.600\nand when you look back and what'd you learn from it?\n\n897\n00:46:21.600 --> 00:46:26.400\nWell, I am so happy that this didn't work because it's nice to be able to tell\n\n898\n00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:26.720\npeople\n\n899\n00:46:26.720 --> 00:46:34.350\nthat, you know, not everything I touch works. I started a wellness brand that\n\n900\n00:46:34.350 --> 00:46:35.760\nwas selling vitamins\n\n901\n00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:41.450\nand powders right when I left Bobbi Brown cosmetics and we launched it at\n\n902\n00:46:41.450 --> 00:46:42.400\nWalmart,\n\n903\n00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:49.340\nput a little team together and it was really promising and exciting and it did\n\n904\n00:46:49.340 --> 00:46:49.840\nnot work.\n\n905\n00:46:51.200 --> 00:46:55.400\nDid not work and I walked away from it to do, you know, when I was able to\n\n906\n00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:56.800\nlaunch Jones Road.\n\n907\n00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:01.760\nThe big learning was don't just ask your assistants and your friends to help\n\n908\n00:47:01.760 --> 00:47:03.040\nyou with the business.\n\n909\n00:47:03.040 --> 00:47:04.880\nHire someone that knows what they're doing.\n\n910\n00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:11.430\nAll right. Your mother and three, what's the best practice you'd share about\n\n911\n00:47:11.430 --> 00:47:12.320\nleading at home?\n\n912\n00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:13.760\nLet your husband think he's leading.\n\n913\n00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:22.880\nLove it. I've heard you say your lifestyle leads your work style. What do you\n\n914\n00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:23.600\nmean by that?\n\n915\n00:47:23.600 --> 00:47:29.870\nIt means they work together. You know, I luckily, I don't have to commute\n\n916\n00:47:29.870 --> 00:47:32.160\nanymore and, you know,\n\n917\n00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:38.960\nI just think it's really important to bring your best self to work and when you\n\n918\n00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:39.760\nare working,\n\n919\n00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:45.200\nyou know, make sure you drink enough water. So your brain's working, make sure\n\n920\n00:47:45.200 --> 00:47:45.920\nyou take enough\n\n921\n00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:51.360\nbreaks and fuel your body with, you know, a nice healthy, you know, lunch\n\n922\n00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:52.240\nbecause if you're going to\n\n923\n00:47:52.240 --> 00:47:56.480\neat, you know, two pieces of pizza and a diet coke, you're going to literally\n\n924\n00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:58.080\nsink into the chair.\n\n925\n00:47:58.080 --> 00:48:02.480\nSo the better you take care of yourself, the more energy you'll have for your\n\n926\n00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:04.400\nlife and your work.\n\n927\n00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:10.540\nAnd so here you are now, you're 67 years young. You don't even think about your\n\n928\n00:48:10.540 --> 00:48:11.840\nage. You're much,\n\n929\n00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:17.950\nmuch younger in terms of how you approach everything. So I'm curious, what do\n\n930\n00:48:17.950 --> 00:48:18.640\nyou see now,\n\n931\n00:48:18.640 --> 00:48:24.080\nespecially after being such a serial entrepreneur, what do you see now as your\n\n932\n00:48:24.080 --> 00:48:25.200\nunfinished business?\n\n933\n00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:31.200\nWell, I want to continue to build muscle in my body. Like, I don't think I've\n\n934\n00:48:31.200 --> 00:48:32.000\nreached where I'm\n\n935\n00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:38.740\ngoing to end up. And this year, I'm very proud. I gained three to four pounds\n\n936\n00:48:38.740 --> 00:48:40.720\nof muscle, lost one,\n\n937\n00:48:40.720 --> 00:48:44.770\none pound of body fat. So, you know, that's when I don't have a lot of weight\n\n938\n00:48:44.770 --> 00:48:45.840\nto lose. So that was\n\n939\n00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:49.780\na I had to work really hard with the weights. And I'm really proud that I can\n\n940\n00:48:49.780 --> 00:48:51.440\nget up off the floor\n\n941\n00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:56.420\nwithout holding on to my hand. So that's something that I'm, I'm working on.\n\n942\n00:48:56.420 --> 00:48:57.760\nYou know, I'm also working\n\n943\n00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:11.440\non how do we as a company get better without, you know, hiring a bloated\n\n944\n00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:12.400\norganization?\n\n945\n00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:16.800\nAll makes sense. You know, last question here, what's one piece of advice you'd\n\n946\n00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:17.680\ngive to anyone\n\n947\n00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:24.680\nwho wants to be a better leader? Breathe, breathe, be kind, and just realize\n\n948\n00:49:24.680 --> 00:49:26.480\npeople learn from example.\n\n949\n00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:36.480\nAnd how how the words come out of your mouth actually matter. And, you know,\n\n950\n00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:38.160\ncreate an environment where\n\n951\n00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:42.350\npeople are comfortable to come in and close the door and tell you a struggle\n\n952\n00:49:42.350 --> 00:49:43.600\nthey're having.\n\n953\n00:49:43.600 --> 00:49:49.200\nYou know, I think that's important. Well, Bobby, I want to thank you so much\n\n954\n00:49:49.200 --> 00:49:50.480\nfor taking the time to\n\n955\n00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:54.880\nhave this conversation. And I was really looking forward to it because when you\n\n956\n00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:55.920\nhave the opportunity\n\n957\n00:49:55.920 --> 00:50:00.510\nto talk to an iconic person, you know, someone who has really done things in\n\n958\n00:50:00.510 --> 00:50:01.360\ntheir life and\n\n959\n00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:07.420\nreally changed the way how industries tick. It's really exciting to me. And to\n\n960\n00:50:07.420 --> 00:50:08.400\nbe able to,\n\n961\n00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.480\nto be able to have this conversation with you and just get the straightforward,\n\n962\n00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:16.720\nskatey. I just love it. You're awesome. Oh, my pleasure. And I'm so happy that\n\n963\n00:50:16.720 --> 00:50:17.360\nyou're nearby.\n\n964\n00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:22.400\nSo we can see each other. Ditters on me. I'm going to pick a place and you will\n\n965\n00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:23.040\nget to friends.\n\n966\n00:50:23.040 --> 00:50:26.160\nAll right, good. All right. Sounds great. Nice to talk to you.\n\n967\n00:50:26.160 --> 00:50:36.640\nNow it's easy to see why Bobby is built such a devoted online following. She\n\n968\n00:50:36.640 --> 00:50:37.440\nisn't afraid to be\n\n969\n00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:42.950\nyourself. And that authenticity, that genuine character that she has is\n\n970\n00:50:42.950 --> 00:50:45.040\nincredibly irresistible.\n\n971\n00:50:45.040 --> 00:50:50.480\nTruly, Bobby is one of the most original and creative thinkers I know. And she\n\n972\n00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:51.280\n's not going to\n\n973\n00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:55.960\nover complicate things. In fact, her ability to simplify, to cut through all\n\n974\n00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:57.280\nthe crap as she puts\n\n975\n00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:02.410\nit, helps her spot ideas and solutions that other people miss. Great leaders\n\n976\n00:51:02.410 --> 00:51:03.760\nexcel at taking what's\n\n977\n00:51:03.760 --> 00:51:10.530\ncomplex and then boiling it down to its bare essence and making it simple. And\n\n978\n00:51:10.530 --> 00:51:11.600\nI hope seeing how\n\n979\n00:51:11.600 --> 00:51:16.680\nBobby does it inspires you to develop that discipline for yourself. In fact, if\n\n980\n00:51:16.680 --> 00:51:17.600\nyou're in a meeting this\n\n981\n00:51:17.600 --> 00:51:22.320\nweek and you see the conversation varying towards complexity, I want you to\n\n982\n00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:23.520\npush yourself and your\n\n983\n00:51:23.520 --> 00:51:29.960\nteam to simplify. Embrace that naive thinking that Bobby calls it and see if\n\n984\n00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:31.120\nthere's a way\n\n985\n00:51:31.120 --> 00:51:35.850\nto make things more straightforward. So do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n986\n00:51:35.850 --> 00:51:36.400\nWhat we learned\n\n987\n00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:40.870\ntoday is that great leaders know that the best solutions are often the simplest\n\n988\n00:51:40.870 --> 00:51:42.480\nones. And coming\n\n989\n00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:47.440\nup next on How Leaders Lead is the one and only Jamie Dimon, the chairman and\n\n990\n00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:49.120\nCEO of JP Morgan Chase.\n\n991\n00:51:49.120 --> 00:51:52.640\nA lot of businesses, you've seen this, you know, if you have a\n\n992\n00:51:52.640 --> 00:51:59.680\nsecond-rate execution, you're in trouble. You know, if you have a first-rate\n\n993\n00:51:59.680 --> 00:52:00.160\nexecution,\n\n994\n00:52:00.160 --> 00:52:03.440\nyou can run a pretty good business whether or not you have a perfect strategy.\n\n995\n00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:06.880\nSo be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation.\n\n996\n00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:10.880\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every\n\n997\n00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:11.760\nThursday you get\n\n998\n00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:16.310\nto listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I\n\n999\n00:52:16.310 --> 00:52:17.760\nmake it a point to\n\n1000\n00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:23.200\ngive you something simple on each and every episode that you can actually apply\n\n1001\n00:52:23.200 --> 00:52:24.480\nto your business\n\n1002\n00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.360\nso that you're going to become the best leader you can be.\n\n1003\n00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:37.360\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","

Bobbi Brown 0:00

I like to show people how simple things are. I'm kind of a simpleton. I'm not complicated, and I just like to cut through all the crap.

David Novak 0:16

How do some leaders seem to tackle big challenges and make it look effortless? Well, the secret is in today's episode, welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader you can be. My guest today is world renowned entrepreneur and cosmetics Titan Bobby Brown. Her latest venture Jones road beauty is growing like crazy and is closing in on a $1 billion valuation, and that's in about five years. People love how she takes the complicated world of beauty and cosmetics and then makes it simple, and that simplicity shines through in how she leads to, I'm telling you, her ability to drill down and get to the heart of an issue is absolutely remarkable, and it's a skill every leader needs to develop. Leaders waste all kinds of time because they over complicate things, but when you learn to simplify, you can save yourself time and energy and ultimately find better solutions. So see how it's done in this conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours. Bobby Brown,

you know, Bobby, this podcast is obviously all about leadership, but, but I got to ask you, what was the biggest learning you had in 2024 Hmm,

Bobbi Brown 1:42

let's see. You know, the biggest learning I have had is that I still have so much to learn, right? Like a lot of people kind of get to a point in their careers and they think, Well, I've done it all. I know everything. What do I have? No, I have a lot to learn. And I think I've really evolved a lot since starting Jones road.

David Novak 2:02

Now that's fantastic, and we'll dig into that. And you know, every year I start out the year I do what I call my three by five exercise, where I write down what I am today, and then that's on one side of the card. On the other side is, how can I get even better? You know, as as as a leader, what do you think you you need to do to get even better as a leader, as you think about 2025 honestly,

Bobbi Brown 2:25

for me, it's calmed down, you know, I get I get I you know, I care about every little detail. And sometimes I get frustrated by people that aren't doing exactly what I have in my head. And I have to kind of calm myself down and realize that my job is to tell them what I want and teach them how to do it, especially when you have a young team, as I do

David Novak 2:49

and as I understand it. When you think about Jones, road beauty, you know there was literally a countdown for you being able to start that that business. Talk more about that when

Bobbi Brown 3:00

my husband and I sold Bobby Brown cosmetics to Estee Lauder, there was one thing left to decide, and that was, would I sign a 25 year non compete and when you're 34 years old, the thought of working in 25 years was daunting. I said, I'm never going to want to work when I was 60, and I left Bobbi Brown cosmetics when I was 59.8 and I had four and a half years left on a non compete that I had to wait until I went back into the beauty industry that my industry that I love. So I launched the day my non compete was up that very day, that very day. Actually, it's the non compete was up on a Saturday. I did let them talk me into waiting till Monday morning, because no one thought Saturday or Sunday was a good day to launch. And by the way, it was a week before the presidential election, in the middle of the pandemic, in the middle of all this social unrest, and nothing was going to stop me. I just wanted to get it done.

David Novak 4:03

Where did you get that relentless, like drive to make things happen? I don't

Bobbi Brown 4:08

know. I really don't know whether it's from my papa, Sam, that I watched him, you know, with his car dealership, or just realizing I'm not very patient. David, that's one thing that I need to work on. Also is patience, which I keep trying. I must be better than I used to be, but, but I just it. Made it like when I have something in my head, it made total sense to me, I have my freedom. What was I going to wait until January? You know, people said, Just wait till next year. Well, January, we had this thing, you know, known as January 6. So that wouldn't have been a good time either. So you know what the best time is. Do it now.

David Novak 4:46

Well, here you are. Now. You've got another hit on your hands. And tell me about the Jones road brand itself and your core focus. You know, you know what? What is the real reason for being for this brand? Well,

Bobbi Brown 4:58

I really thought it was going to. Be the small, indie brand that, you know, some people would like, because there's a lot of women that just struggle with makeup, and they just want to look better, but they still want to look like themselves. They want to look natural. And it's a it's a brand that is a clean brand. It's without chemicals, and it's without heavy marketed. You know, I hate to say the word bullshit, but it's a, it's without all of that. It's just products that, when you put them on, they make you look better. They make you look like you. There's definitely a Jones road look. If you are someone that likes contour and over made up, you're not going to like Jones road. So, you know, I want to make that clear, but I had like a purpose by doing this, because I wanted to teach women of all ages, all ages, 20s, you know, up until 100 that you could look better just by doing a few little things. And Jones road has it's, I guess, four and a half years now, four and a half years, boy,

David Novak 6:00

time flies. I remember you talking about doing this brand, and here we are, you know. And I have to be honest, when I heard Jones road, I didn't immediately think of it being a cosmetic brand, you know. How did you land on that name? It's a

Bobbi Brown 6:17

really interesting story, because I needed to have a name by a certain day in order to have the creative team kind of start doing the logos. And that's the thing that I love, is all the visual creative things. And we couldn't, either get a name, it wasn't available, or we couldn't agree on a name. Me, my husband, the kids, whoever was, you know, in my office, and we were driving to the Hamptons my husband and I, when my husband drives, he doesn't like me being in my device, which is hard for me because I'm always in my device. So I was on Waze and Google Maps because he didn't want to be late. And I looked down. We were somewhere in West Hampton. Looked down on the We're driving to Sag Harbor, and I looked and I saw on Waze Jones road. It just struck me. I said, Jones road. It sounded to me like a bespoke UK, British brand that someone, you know, said to me, oh, Bobby, would you please, you know, take this old brand and make it fabulous again. And I love the UK, and I couldn't use brown, so Jones and it was available. So that was a, that was a Friday and Monday, we made, we owned Jones road. I

David Novak 7:28

love that story. And, you know, Bobby, there's no question you're like the cosmetic queen, and you've, you've revolutionized the whole beauty industry, and you're doing it again now, and you create these brilliant products. How often do you really go to the customer for input, or just how much of what you do is just your your base gut instinct. It's

Bobbi Brown 7:49

really a combination. What's so amazing now, we used to, in the old I always call it, you know, in the olden days, we would go to, you know, all these companies and do all these surveys, and, you know, I just, I didn't care. I was like, Who are these people that are telling us what they like and don't like? But now I just go to my Instagram, I go to my sub stack, I go wherever, and I just ask questions. So I learn a lot from my my people, because most of the people that follow me are they're not haters, they're lovers. So we also have a dedicated Facebook group called the roadies. Jones wrote the roadies last count, there was 66,000 roadies, mostly women, and they have these communities. And if I ever ask a question, I mean, I get infused with information. I need one of the young kids on the product development team to go in and just make a list of all the requests, because I get overwhelmed just looking at them and I and I know what colors they want. I know what's working. I know it's not working, and it's instant information. And guess what? It costs zero what was the

David Novak 8:56

biggest insight that you you would not have expected that you got from the social media input? Well,

Bobbi Brown 9:03

I think a lot of people wanted products that the old company discontinued, you know, or colors, you know, things that that I created when I was there, and in the six years I've been gone, you know, they I don't, it has nothing to do with me. They get rid of things, you know, things I would have said, don't get rid of Don't be crazy, but they did. So people are like, we need that in the Jones road line. So I get a lot of information that way.

David Novak 9:30

So you get back into basically this startup phase again for a new company. And you know what was the biggest leadership challenge you faced going back to the beginning and building a brand from the roots. Well,

Bobbi Brown 9:43

certainly I didn't do it alone, you know, besides my husband and we have two board members, you know, really supportive, great. You know, people I can't live without. We we had a couple different people on leaders. Ship, and they really weren't the right people. And again, they were really young. I don't even think anyone was 30 at the time, and and it was not the easiest, and now they're all gone. And the, probably the most interesting thing is, who, who has like, you know, like sped up in our organization is is a boy named Cody, a guy named Cody that came in to help us with digital marketing. He just transformed our business. We quadrupled when he joined. He start then eventually became the head of marketing the CMO, and now he is the CEO. And what's so bizarre about this David, that he's 32 years old. He's my son. He's my second child, and so talk about interesting this. You know, this was this kid was on the golf team. He was a strength and conditioning coach. He never was interested in makeup, ever, ever, ever, and he's just this incredible leader. I don't know where he learned it. He it's, it's mind blowing. He is all three of my kids are pretty self taught on so many things, but he is now the CEO. I am the founder and CCO. So do I report to him, or does he report to me? It's unclear.

David Novak 11:21

Well, I'm not going to venture to make a guess on that one. So So you know, not many people get asked this question, but with Bobby Brown cosmetics, you built an over billion dollar brand, and now you've got Jones Road, which is already as a billion dollar valuation as I understand it. What's it going to take for you to make Jones, road beauty a billion dollar brand in terms of revenue? I

Bobbi Brown 11:47

don't know. I mean, I know we finished off last year. I don't know if you're and it's, it's, it's been printed at 154 million in four years. And you know, we don't have investors. We have, like, a crazy, ridiculous EBITDA, which I still don't even really understand where an EBITDA is, but I hear it's crazy and ridiculous, and we don't, you know, we're pretty scrappy still. We We do things, you know, we don't like to waste time or money, so we just have to keep doing what we're doing and just make sure that we're not, you know, don't become cocky and bloated because, you know, it's been, it's been like four pretty quick. You know, fast growing years. It's not gonna last forever, you know, we, we doubled, we this. It's not gonna keep happening like I know that. So this year, this year, which will be our fifth year, is gonna be more of a challenge. I know it even though we have, like, phenomenal products. I don't know how big you go, by the way, we're direct to consumer, except right now we have eight free standing stores. We're in one department store, so we don't have a plan to go into retail. How

David Novak 12:55

do you balance dreaming and doing? Because you're a dreamer. I'm at right now, you're kind of laying back a little bit. Said, Oh, it's not gonna last forever, but you have big dreams, you know, and and you also are into the details. How do you how do you think about dreaming and doing? Yeah,

Bobbi Brown 13:11

I don't have big dreams for this brand. I'm not like, Oh, I hope I sell it. I hope I sell it. I sold the first brand, and it was great for a while, until it wasn't. And then it was God awful. And I don't want to do that again, like, I don't want to go. If someone comes to me and says, you know, love, love to buy you, you know. And you know, you could just go on a vacation, I'd be like, No, I love doing what I'm doing. So, you know, I can't imagine me not doing this. By the way, I'm 67 years old, and to me, that's young. I don't look at myself as old. I'm young. You know, I don't know what I want to do when I'm 80. I know I want to be able to, you know, do yoga and, you know, pick pick things up off the ground. But I don't know what I want. You know, what kind of work I'll be doing. I definitely won't be playing cards.

David Novak 14:02

You and me both are fairly young at heart in terms of how we look at things, you know. And I want to talk more about what you're doing at Jones road, but I want to take you back a little bit. I think you mentioned Papa Sam, or I've heard you call him Cadillac Sam before, or whatever, you know, but tell us a story from him that that taught you a key leadership lesson.

Bobbi Brown 14:28

I don't know if it's urban myth or my aunt told me or this actually happened, but it's one of my favorite stories that Papa Sam was once in his car dealership, and some guy came in with this big overcoat. The guy looked like he had been sleeping on the street. He had two garbage bags with him, you know, like, literally garbage bags. And none of the men, you know, Papa was the boss, none of the men would would leave their offices. And Papa went up to the guy, and he called everyone, Doc, you know, the first of all, Papa was five two. He was this little, teeny guy, or five men. I don't even know if he was five four, and he's like, Hey, Doc, can I help you? And the guy said, Yeah, I want to buy a car. Papa said, All right, let me show you around. The guy bought two cars that day. The bags were full of cash. And so what does that teach me? It teaches me that you just don't know who you're dealing with by what people look like. You know, I don't know where the guy got his money. I don't know where he lived, but he bought two cars.

David Novak 15:23

So you learned a lot from Papa Sam, you know, and now you have your own kids. What do you think's the biggest thing that your kids have picked up watching you?

Bobbi Brown 15:31

I mean, I think that anything is possible and that there's no limits, you know, I I was definitely not the kid in high school that people said she's going places Absolutely not, you know, my parents, even you know, said we're not gonna punish her, push her when she doesn't get good grades, because she probably will never really be anything. You know. Maybe she'll be a teacher, which to me, that would have been a wonderful thing. And and I am a teacher, I guess, but I never really thought that I had the ability to do what I'm doing, which is probably why I'm so relentless now. I mean, I have a lot to prove, not to anyone, but to myself.

David Novak 16:13

So you say, your teacher, you've mentioned that a couple of times, you know, what is it that has really drawn you to seeing yourself as a teacher, because

Bobbi Brown 16:23

I have this naive ability. I'm very naive. I'm not afraid that something's not going to work out, because I don't believe there's such a thing. But I also have figured out like easy ways to do things, easy ways to put on eyeshadow. Easy Ways to Make myself not look tired, easy ways to do an enormous amount in the amount of time that it would take, you know, like half of the time it would take someone else. And so I like to show people how simple things are. I'm kind of a simpleton. I'm not complicated. And I just like to cut through all the crap. I'm like, guys, let me just show you, this is better. So I've written, I've written 10 books so far. I don't know, I don't know how to type, okay? And the first couple books were torturous for me, because I'd work with these editors and writers and they would say, okay, you've got to write, you know, the the synopsis, you've got to write this. You got to write this. And I like it drove me nutty. Finally, I realized, if I could just go into a studio with models and my team, and let's an idea, and let's just do some photography. I will take the pictures and put them in chapters, and then I will write to the photos. And it just made my life so much easier. And so I found a writer that understood that, and she was there with me.

Koula Callahan 17:46

Hey, everyone, it's Kula. We'll get back to the interview in just a second before we do though, I have a question for you. Have you downloaded the how leaders lead app on your iPhone? If you haven't take 20 seconds right now, go to the App Store, search for how leaders lead and download the how leaders lead app. In the app every day, you'll get a two minute video that'll give you a leadership insight from one of our amazing guests from our podcast to inspire you and to really get your mind in the right place before you start your work day. So go to the App Store, search how leaders lead, download the how leaders lead app and start your day, every day with two minutes of leadership wisdom. It'll take 20 seconds go to the App Store, download the app, and you'll be able to watch every day, just like me, the leadership insight from how leaders lead, for those of

David Novak 18:35

you who don't know your story, getting back to the this notion of you figuring things out, when did you have that seminal moment, Bobby, where you you said, where you knew you wanted to work up, work out in the in the makeup world? Well,

Bobbi Brown 18:49

I didn't know what I wanted to do in makeup, but I knew that I wanted. I knew I had to go to college. My parents did not give me a choice. I had to graduate, and I knew that I was passionate about makeup. I didn't like wearing a lot of it. I just loved playing with it and it just, you know, made me look pretty and feel pretty. And my mother helped me find my mother and my father helped me find a college that allowed me to study makeup, which was Emerson College in Boston. They didn't have a makeup degree. They let me create one and make my own up. Now it's probably called an entrepreneurship but back then it was called an interdisciplinary major. I still don't know what interdisciplinary means, and so I just kind of realized that I could figure things out. Because I'm not your traditional learner. I'm not your traditional anything. I can't really cook. I can't follow a recipe, but I could give a really good dinner party, and I could make everything look beautiful, and kind of hack things to make them mine. And so that's what I do. That's

David Novak 19:56

great, you know? And we have so many leaders listening. This podcast that you know are trying to build their businesses and and just for illustrative purposes. You know, when you think back at what it took for you to build Bobby Brown cosmetics, how would you describe the top two or three strategic decisions you made that that really in your mind, put that brand on the on the map. What did you do?

Bobbi Brown 20:26

Well, certainly it's the team. And by the way, you know, having the team, having people that you can say anything to. You could say, I hate that. You could say, I'm frustrated. You could say, oh my god, if we only could do this, it'd be so cool for them to understand. So having your your team is number one. And by the way, having the team be able to come into me with a closed door and say, you know, my husband and I are splitting up. I'm not myself. Please forgive me, my kids are this my I like to me that's really important, and that just does not have a place in corporate America. But I always made sure it happened. So that was something that I think really helped, you know, things happen, and also there's, there's so many different pieces of building this, you know, billion dollar business over 22 years I stayed and and there's shifts and there's changes, and some things work and some things don't work, and you have to know when they're not working, and just kind of push yourself back and think, and then have people your posse around you to say, All right, what could we do? What should we do now? You know? And that was important, yeah,

David Novak 21:39

those are great, great insights and and you, you did step away in 2016 from Bobby Brown cosmetics, and you mentioned the frustration you had in terms of just, you know, working there, you know, what? What advice can you give to people who get in this environment where, you know, you're just frustrated that things aren't going the way I you think they they should go. I mean, it, it's, it's easy when you're at the top to say, Okay, I'm getting out of here. Okay, well, but you know, when you're moving up and you see how things are, what coaching could you give someone out what teaching Could you provide us? Well,

Bobbi Brown 22:19

you have to, you know, you never know when it's time to get out. You just don't I, you know, there's no, there's no magic, anything. I stayed probably a couple years longer than I should have, and it really took my 80 something year old aunt, who's just turned 94 to say, Bobby, I've been hearing you complain for the last couple years. You're not going to fix this. You're just, you're not going to fix this. And finally, I said, you know, and Dallas, you're right, I'm not going to fix it. And I realized that, like, no, no, I used to go into work with like, a mental roll of tape and think, Okay, I could tape things up and fix them temporarily until we do this. And finally I realized, you know what? It's it's not going to happen, you know? And I realized there was a lot of people that were hired without my interviewing them, and they were just not the right people, and the decisions were being made were not the right decisions. And, you know, thank goodness that I went through the misery I did. So there's a reason everybody for why. You know when you're miserable, that's when you have to just say, Okay, now what you know, and it's and it's always a financial thing, like, I don't want to tell people, just leave, just quit. No, you've got to feel secure that you could still pay your rent and mortgage, and know when the time is right. You know

David Novak 23:38

what's a key learning from building Bobby Brown that that you know you've taken as you're building this Jones road business. I

Bobbi Brown 23:46

mean, it's so funny, because, you know, with with all the years, you know difference. It's the same theories, but it's how people are absorbing information now, and how we just do things differently now, and it's and it's so much more modern, and it's so much more of the time. So, you know, key learnings are making sure that you put only the best product out there. I mean, there's just, you just have to and, and, you know what? I just canceled a launch three days before we were going to launch, because I realized, and it was not an easy decision, because I realized it was a product that needed a few more months to fix a color for certain skin tone. So I just had to call my son and say, We can't do this. And now we've had a move and shift, but it never would have happened in in like a big, giant company that, you know, the retail numbers are waiting for you, and all the you know, department stores and magazines like you know, but it's different now we we pulled it and we'll bring it back when it's right,

David Novak 24:59

you've told me, but. For that you love doing things that you don't know how to do. I mean, that's, that's a unique characteristic. What's the last new thing you got yourself into? And what's the biggest, biggest thing it taught you? Well,

Bobbi Brown 25:13

the last project I did, I you know my husband, I have a hotel in Montclair called the George, and I met this really nice woman that was having breakfast. I asked her what she did, and she told me she was the CMO of William Sonoma. So first they asked me to join on the board, which I I said, There's no way I'm gonna sit there. And, you know, on a board four times a year, and I know I'm not gonna happen. And then she asked if I wanted to do a collaboration of, you know, to create these products for Williams, Sonoma home, and so I did it. And, you know, we designed these products. It was so interesting, so fun. I don't know anything except I made things I really like, and now I'm waiting to see how well they did, hopefully. So we could do more products.

David Novak 26:00

And speaking of new things, I understand you're a really big deal on Tiktok, you know, talk a bit more about how you've been using social media to grow the brand. You've talked a little bit about it. Say more.

Bobbi Brown 26:13

Well, when we launched, it was really Instagram, you know, I opened up well curated Instagram the morning that we launched, I used my personal one to drive people to the Jones road one. And you know, there wasn't Tiktok then. And then Tiktok became a thing. And you know, it was actually my son that said mom, and he literally held a phone up in my face. Go ahead, Mom, what do you want to say? And like, without thinking, I said, Hey guys, it's Bobby here. I'm new to tick tock, so please help me. Tell me what you want to see for me, what videos, what you want me to do. And I really appreciate it. And I got bombarded with people asking questions and saying, Oh my God, thank God you're here, because I had been, you know, a little quiet for the few years earlier. And a lot of women, of you know, 40s, 50s and 60s, were on tick tock, as you know, and they needed someone to teach them how to not look tired, or how to keep their eye mate, whatever it was. And we ended up really like, blowing up the business. And it was great. We ran out of products. I went back on Tiktok and said, see what you guys did now. You got to wait till we make them again. And you know, Tiktok is not as working as it did a couple years ago. It, you know, we're still on it. And I, you know, I've done a bunch of things that have gone viral, but now the newest thing is sub stack. Do you know about sub stack? I have not partaken that. Yeah, sub stack, honestly, if it could be an interesting thing, even to have one of your guys open you up a sub stack, because it's just, it's like, really like newsletters, and it's, it's information, and there's really dedicated audience on that. So more and more we're leaning into sub stack and and YouTube. So whatever's there, you know, we lean into it and, you know, until it doesn't work anymore, I

David Novak 28:12

think you just gave me a great idea. I think I'd go on tick tock and say, Hey guys, you know, what do you want to know about leadership? And, you know, fire away. That's a good idea. But

Bobbi Brown 28:20

that's honestly, how it works. And then, you know, you might get two people answering you. You might get 200 people. You might get, you know, more than that. You don't know. And you know, and it's, I think it's a great way to connect with people. And you and the people are all over the world, you know, they're in India, they're in Thailand. It's really interesting. You know,

David Novak 28:40

there's this sort of law in with brands that you know almost it's the 2080 rule, 20% of the users count for 80% of your your volume. How do you think about that in your business, serving your super core, heavy user base? Is that something that you you really think about or do you just let it happen? Well,

Bobbi Brown 29:02

I let it happen. If my son was here, he'd have an answer. He thinks about it. And, you know, I know that. You know, we launched TV ads a year ago, and ever since, honestly, ever between the social media and the TV ads, you know, we're all over cable. I can't go anywhere without someone stopping me. So it's, it's really done, you know, amazing awareness and but you know what? There's still plenty of people that still think I'm with Bobby Brown cosmetics, like there are people out there that have never heard of Jones road. So to me, new customers are the biggest opportunity. We have incredible loyal customers that buy and Buy and buy because they love it. They don't need any more than they have, you know, replenishment, you know, couple times a year. But so I'm all about new customers. Yeah,

David Novak 29:54

that makes a lot of sense. When you have a new business. You want to maximize the trial. Once you get the trial, then you can look at your user. Base, and that's really kind of what you're doing here, you know. And you know, back to teaching one more time here, you know, you've always been one to teach more than sell. You say you teach more than sell. What do you mean by

Bobbi Brown 30:13

that? Mean, I don't want to be known as the person that's Hawking my products. I want to, I want and I, you know, I was on the Today Show for 14 years. So and I, and I took that very serious. I was the beauty editor The Today Show. I was, I never mentioned my products, never mentioned my brand, but I taught women, you know, whatever topic it was, look how easy this is if you find a foundation that matches your skin, and this is what you look for. And you know, I had two to four minutes to tell them this, and then it just so happened, everybody ran to the counters. Bobby on the Today Show talked about a yellow base foundation, and my team at, you know, at the store, knew what that meant. And so that was incredible. So I don't want to be the one that says in three easy payments on QVC, even when I was on QVC, which had a giant audience, I was the teacher, and that's just who I am. Something

David Novak 31:08

that I've come to know and appreciate about you is that one of your great gifts is to being able to look at something and see how it could be better. Tell me a story about how you're doing that right now? Well,

Bobbi Brown 31:21

it's, it's actually a nice, you know, it's a positive thing, but it's also a curse, because I can't walk into any place without my mind saying, Oh, I could do this better, you know, whether it's a hotel room or, you know, my living room, you know, I think if I just did this, it would be better so it, you know, I'd like to be a little more Zen, truthfully. And I did buy a magazine that teaches meditation, but I haven't read it yet, and that's the true story. But, you know, normally I look at these things and I'm like, Hmm, what if the cap would do this, and then you wouldn't be looking for it when it's open. What if it was something that you just squeeze so I'm always kind of thinking how to do it better, even when my team puts things in a box to send to an influencer or a celebrity, I'm always like, can you send me a picture? And I'm like, Alright, guys, look, if you just put more this and do this. And they're like, Oh, my God, you're so right. It looks better. I I'm not a micromanager, but I guess I am. But you're

David Novak 32:26

extremely prolific. You know, you talked about the number of books that you've written and you've created countless products. How do you foster your own creativity? Gosh, how

Bobbi Brown 32:37

do i Calm it down? Is the problem? You know, I mean, I just, I don't have to try. I'm really curious. I'm incredibly visual. And I, you know, I get a lot of inspiration on social media. I do, I literally, I, you know, I search, I Google, you know, I don't even Google anymore. I just, I just search on social media because I love seeing pictures, whether it's a hotel I'm interested in visiting, whether it's a restaurant, I like to see everything, and that helps me, you know, form an opinion. And I'm always like passing the things I find on Instagram to like the team. My team say, Oh, my God, it'd be so cool if we did this. Oh, we love that. And so I communicate through visuals. How

David Novak 33:27

do you bring out the creativity in others? You know, a lot of people don't see themselves as creative, but when they get the right kind of prodding, they become creative, you know, how do you bring it out of people? Well, I

Bobbi Brown 33:40

recently just said to the girl that is doing our packaging, that is really, you know, she's been showing me a lot of different packaging from the packaging industry. And I'm like, go to an art store, go to a gourmet food store, you know, I asked her, she ever heard of Dina de Lucas? I used to get a lot of ideas going to that store and just look at their packaging, look at the way they're doing things different, and what could be brought in. And, you know, at Jones road, we don't make packaging. We we use stock because we like to keep the cost down to our customers. So we don't, you know, spend a lot of money on it, but you've got to be creative. And you know what you've got to look outside of your industry sometimes to bring creativity in. You're an

David Novak 34:26

elite business mind. I mean, there's no question about it, because you built great businesses, and you know, you're obviously got the creativity. Do you push yourself to get even better on the business side, or do you delegate that? Well,

Bobbi Brown 34:39

it depends what it is. I mean, I'm really good with things I'm interested in, but if I'm not interested in it, you know, I'm not so good at it. So, you know, I would really like to find an amazing business coach for some of my top tier employees that you know, our creative director is literally 20. Yeah, seven years old. I don't even know she's that old yet, but she's phenomenal, but she's got a whole team she has to lead. So, you know, it's, it's, we don't have, you know, the wherewithal or the time to do that right now, but it's definitely on my, on my list, because I do think people have things that they, you know, if they're taught, they'll learn you were

David Novak 35:21

in this corporate environment with esta lotta, and you stayed with that company, building the Bobby Brown brand for, you know, 22 years or so in that environment, you know, when you got everything coming at you and, you know, different, you're different. You know, how did you stay true to yourself? Was it easy for you to do? Yes,

Bobbi Brown 35:43

it was easy for me, because I can't be something I'm not. It just doesn't fit. I mean, I tried that early on in my career, you know, to be the cool person at the fashion shoot, to be the corporate person to be. I just it didn't fit. It didn't feel good. So I always, you know, I only know how to be myself. I only, I'm not afraid to ask, to say, I don't know what you're talking about. You know, because people talk like they're the smartest people in the universe, and sometimes I have no idea what they're saying, but when they explain it to me, I'm like, Ah, I understand what you're saying. Is this, and often that, you know, like the big guys would laugh at me because it was so, oh so sweet that she just, you know, translated. I'm like, Yeah, but at least that's how I understand and that's how I'm gonna solve that's how I'm gonna solve this problem that all you guys are doing is talking about it. I'm gonna find a solution for it. Yes, I know where we're down $3 million but by my CFO at the time, was still one of my closest friends, explaining to me that that some of our products do a million dollars a piece, and the new products, you know, have cannibalized everything else. I'm like, Well, why don't I just come up with two new colors of bronzers that'll bring you a couple million dollars. And he's like, okay, and we did it, and we made the year because of it, but, but he, he took the time to explain to me what was happening, instead of someone, you know, some pompous person being, you know, you don't know what I'm talking about.

David Novak 37:13

You know, you've talked about the ability to simplify, bring things back to their their core essence. And you know, you take these things that could be seemingly complex, and you kind of make them simple for people. How do you coach people on on how to simplify things? How do you how do you personally break things down to the bare essence?

Bobbi Brown 37:33

Well, first of all, I am not on Slack, which my entire team is on Slack, if I want to know something, I pick up the phone and I call and I ask a question. I don't even like the emails that go back and forth. And when there's, you know, big email chain, I just pick up the phone and call, you know, someone to kind of discuss it. And I just don't want to be on a text so I just look at things and I'm like, Okay, what is the real issue here? What are our options? How can we get this done? What makes the most sense? I don't know if this is like a quality I have because I'm from Chicago, you know, like the Midwest is very, you know, I know it's not the center of our country, but it's, you know, it's a very simple place to be from. We'll

David Novak 38:19

be back with the rest of my conversation with Bobby Brown in just a moment. Now, talking to Bobby, I'm reminded of another creative, outside the box thinker, and that's Jesse Cole, the guy behind the sensational Savannah bananas baseball team. I love the way he and his team find great ideas, and they go after him with a zeal like I've never seen. We

Jesse Cole 38:42

believe attention beats marketing 1,000% of the time we don't have a marketing plan. David, we have an attention plan. So we get together as our staff every Monday. Today, in a little bit, we'll have our OTT meeting, which is over the top ideas and outrageous ideas we can do at the field to create attention and create more fans. And so that is our entire plan that we think about, what are we doing that's going to be unique and different? And as you know, David, obviously, with all the different brands you had, with young brands and Taco Bell, especially, you thought dramatically different with everything it was, what will this product do to create some attention, unique and get people talking? And we're so obsessed with that. We learned that from PT, Barnum, Walt, Disney, get people talking. So that's part of the model that we think about. And you mentioned dance the New York Times wrote a great article on that. You know, it started with a test players dancing. Could our players dance every game? Then could we have a break dancing coach? Then could we have a banana bananas senior citizen dance team? And now we have a dancing umpire. When he strikes out someone, he does a full fledged dance while he's striking out a guy. So it's keep taking it to the next level, which then creates more attention. Go

David Novak 39:44

back and listen to my entire conversation with Jesse episode 96 here on how leaders lead. You know, it's very hard to walk away from something that you built, like Bobby Brown. You built that brand, and now here you are at Jones road. Yeah, you know, so when you, when you think about it, what's been the best part of that experience for you

Bobbi Brown 40:06

with the first or the second part or the whole thing? No, the best

David Novak 40:10

part of walking away and moving to Jones road? Well, the

Bobbi Brown 40:15

best part is, success is a bitch. You know, success, it's like, Okay, I did this and, you know, I didn't do it alone, but I didn't do it with all the, you know, people that thought they were responsible for the success, you know, the first time. So I did it my way. And guess what? It worked better. And you know, it just is, makes me feel good that I'm not a one hit wonder. You know, I David, I could have been, easily. I could have been a one hit wonder, and that would have been an okay thing too. But I'm, you know, I'm not. Do you

David Novak 40:54

wake up with that kind of anxiety? Does it when you go to bed at night? Do you think about, oh, what if I'm a one hit wonder? None of that that didn't drive you. So what is it that drove you? Then it wasn't, it wasn't fear. Then, right?

Bobbi Brown 41:07

No, it was. It was curiosity, excitement. It's the it's the naive, like thoughts that are, wow. I bet this will work. I think people will like this. Why don't I could do it this way. This makes such sense, and it's so simple, you know, like you just, you have an idea, you tell someone, they make it, you work on it for a while, and then you're like, Okay, what are we going to put it in? How are we going to tell people about it? Like all those, they're all problem solving things, and how do we do it in a new way? Like, like, I'll never forget, during the pandemic, we launched face pencils, you know, the little pencils that cover spots dark circles. And, you know, they put them in a box, and I always have to approve how it looks. And I said, this looks really boring. So I said, All right, take them out of the outside box. Just have the pencils and put, you know, put the whole range together and go to go to this the go to the store and get me those stasher bags, which are these clear, you know, rubber plastic bags. Put them in there. So when the makeup artists or influencers get them, they open it up and they just, you could see all the colors. It looks good. It won't break because the bags are cushiony, and they're gonna put it right in their makeup bag, which they did. And it was a huge success, because we did it not the way other people do it. We did it in this like, yeah, that makes total sense. And it didn't cost a lot of money, but it was a better visual impact, and it was just more practical.

David Novak 42:43

That's great. You know, I knew it would be fun, and it always is catching up with you, and I want to have some more with my lightning round of questions. Are you ready for this? I'm ready. What three words best describe you? Quick,

Bobbi Brown 42:55

nice, and I think funny. If

David Novak 42:59

you could be one person for a day besides yourself. Who would it be? Let's

Bobbi Brown 43:03

see that's between someone really gorgeous and really smart and really tall. All right, I think I'll be a basketball player. I'll be an athlete. What's your biggest pet peeve when people don't tell the truth? I don't like when people are afraid to tell you the truth. Who

David Novak 43:21

would play you at a movie? Well, um, would it

Bobbi Brown 43:25

be Demi Moore? People always said, I kind of look like Demi Moore would have been an A young ally McGraw, and most people my age have done too much cosmetic surgery, so I don't know.

David Novak 43:39

I'm curious. You know, what do you give out to trick or treaters that come to your house? Well,

Bobbi Brown 43:44

for decades, I gave out makeup. Gave out makeup. My husband gave big candy bars. I gave out makeup. At one time we had to get, like, 2200 or 2400 pieces of makeup. But we moved and when people come to the door, we're like, no, Bobby doesn't live here anymore, so we don't. We had to stop you've

David Novak 44:05

had so many celebrities that have used your products over the year which have really wowed you.

Bobbi Brown 44:10

I mean, you know, Michelle Obama always, always amazing. I mean, I there's been so many that have, that have wowed me. I just it's amazing when you meet these people that are larger than anything and they're just the nicest people in the world.

David Novak 44:28

What was one of your last I can't believe it's happening to me. Moments I

Bobbi Brown 44:32

and my family got invited to the Paul McCartney concert in London and to sit in the VIP seats with Mrs. You know, Mrs. McCartney's friends and family. They were people that had, you know, one name, like Ringo and, you know, Ron woods. And it was really kind of, you know, and the backstage party afterwards, that was a giant pinch me moment. Oh, yeah. What's

David Novak 44:57

the one thing you do just for. You

Bobbi Brown 45:00

exercise. I am a I love, love. Love to push myself into exercise, or I love to decide to not exercise and just chill out in the morning, your most

David Novak 45:14

prized possession, my three children, if I turn the radio, daughter, oh, there you go. If I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You will hear

Bobbi Brown 45:22

music that you won't believe would be on my on my Spotify. I I'm a hip hop lover. I just love hip hop music.

David Novak 45:33

What's something about you? Few people would know I

Bobbi Brown 45:35

don't know. With Instagram, everyone knows everything. I danced on stage with Flo Rida and I danced on stage with salt and pepper. I was, I was in a motorcade once with, you know, Secretary of Defense, you know, Mr. Panetta. So with a lot of weird moments, what's

David Novak 45:54

one of your daily rituals that you never miss double espresso

Bobbi Brown 45:58

and a cap of half and half after a giant glass of water or green juice, you're

David Novak 46:03

so healthy. That's so great. All right, that's the end of the lightning round. Just a few more questions. I'll let you go. Yeah, we talked about all these phenomenal hits that you've had. You know so many successes is, is, what was the biggest thing that didn't go right? And when you look back and what'd you learn from it?

Bobbi Brown 46:21

Well, am so happy that this didn't work, because it's nice to be able to tell people that you know, not everything I touch works. I started a wellness brand that was selling vitamins and powders right when I left Bobbi Brown cosmetics, and we launched it at Walmart, put a little team together, and it was really promising and exciting, and it did not work. Did not work, and I walked away from it to do you know when I was able to launch Jones road, the big learning was, don't just ask your assistants and your friends to help you with the business. Hire someone that knows what they're doing.

David Novak 47:06

All right, you're a mother of three. What's the best practice you'd share about leading at home?

Bobbi Brown 47:11

Let your husband think he's leading.

David Novak 47:16

Love it. I've heard you say your lifestyle leads your work style. What do you mean by that?

Bobbi Brown 47:24

It means they work together, you know, I luckily I don't have to commute anymore. And, you know, I just think it's really important to bring your best self to work. And when you are working, you know, make sure you drink enough water so your brain's working. Make sure you take enough breaks and fuel your body with, you know, a nice, healthy, you know, lunch, because if you're gonna eat, you know, two pieces of pizza and a Diet Coke, you're gonna literally sink into the chair. So the better you take care of yourself, the more energy you'll have for your life and your work.

David Novak 48:03

And so here you are now. You're 67 years young. You don't even think about your age. You're much, much younger in terms of how you approach everything. So I'm curious, what do you see now, especially after being such a serial entrepreneur. What do you see now as your unfinished business? Well, I

Bobbi Brown 48:25

want to continue to build muscle in my body like I don't think I've reached where I'm going to end up. And this year, I'm very proud I I gained three pounds, three to four pounds of muscle. Lost one, one pound of body fat. So, you know, that's when I don't have a lot of weight to lose. So that was a I had to work really hard with the weights. And I'm really proud that I can get up off the floor without holding on to my hand. So that's something that I'm I'm working on, you know, I'm also working on, how do we as a company get better without, you know, hiring a bloated organization all

David Novak 49:12

makes sense. You know, last question here, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

Bobbi Brown 49:19

Breathe. Breathe. Be kind, and just realize people learn from example and how, how the words come out of your mouth actually matter. And, you know, create an environment where people are comfortable to come in and close the door and tell you a struggle they're having. You know, I think that's important.

David Novak 49:46

Well, Bobby, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation. And I was really looking forward to it, because when you have the opportunity to talk to an iconic person, you know, someone who has really done. Things in their life and really change the way how industries tick. It's really exciting to me, and to be able to to be able to have this conversation with you and just get this straightforward skiddy, I just love it. You're awesome. Oh,

Bobbi Brown 50:14

my pleasure, and I'm so happy that you're nearby so we could see each other. Dinner's on

David Novak 50:20

me. I'm gonna pick a place, and you will get to friends. All right, good. All

Bobbi Brown 50:24

right, sounds great. Nice to talk to you.

David Novak 50:32

Now, it's easy to see why Bobby has built such a devoted online following. She isn't afraid to be herself, and that authenticity, that genuine character that she has is incredibly irresistible. Truly, Bobbi is one of the most original and creative thinkers I know, and she's not going to over complicate things. In fact, her ability to simplify, to cut through all the crap, as she puts it, helps her spot ideas and solutions that other people miss great leaders excel at taking what's complex and then boiling it down to its bare essence and making it simple. And I hope seeing how Bobby does it inspires you to develop that discipline for yourself. In fact, if you're in a meeting this week and you see the conversation veering towards complexity, I want you to push yourself and your team to simplify, embrace that naive thinking that Bobby calls it, and see if there's a way to make things more straightforward. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know that the best solutions are often the simplest ones, and coming up next on how leaders lead is the one and only Jamie Dimon, the Chairman and CEO of JP Morgan Chase

Jamie Dimon 51:49

a lot of businesses. You've seen this. You know, you if you have a second rate execution, you're in trouble. You know, if you have a first rate execution, you can run a pretty good business, whether or not you have a perfect strategy. So

David Novak 52:03

be sure to come back again next week to hear our entire conversation. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each and every episode that you can actually apply to your business, so that you're going to become the best leader you can be. You.

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