[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2875/recognition-is-especially-key-in-sales-cultures","id",2875,"title","Recognition is especially key in sales cultures","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.520\nHow do you think about culture? Is this something you spend a lot of time on,\n\n2\n00:00:04.520 --> 00:00:05.280\nFrank, or is this\n\n3\n00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:10.290\njust something that you guys just take for granted? Tremendous. You can't take\n\n4\n00:00:10.290 --> 00:00:11.440\nit for granted,\n\n5\n00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:18.320\nand you got to work on it constantly. I think a big part of our culture is,\n\n6\n00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:24.850\nquite honestly, David, I've learned when I've read your first book, talking\n\n7\n00:00:24.850 --> 00:00:25.920\nabout recognition,\n\n8\n00:00:26.560 --> 00:00:35.310\nand how I don't care whether it's a person that is running a deal team, or it's\n\n9\n00:00:35.310 --> 00:00:36.160\na sales person\n\n10\n00:00:36.160 --> 00:00:40.530\nthat's just made a big sale, or it is a junior person that is learning how to\n\n11\n00:00:40.530 --> 00:00:43.680\ndo X. Just recognizing\n\n12\n00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:47.640\nfor that, recognizing them for that. People love being recognized as better\n\n13\n00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:49.520\nthan anybody, and I think\n\n14\n00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:54.240\nthat needs to be a part of a sales culture. You want your highs to be high, but\n\n15\n00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:55.040\nyou don't want\n\n16\n00:00:55.040 --> 00:01:00.470\nyour lows to be so low. In our world, you get a lot of rejection, but as I tell\n\n17\n00:01:00.470 --> 00:01:02.160\neverybody, when you\n\n18\n00:01:02.160 --> 00:01:04.960\nget told no, you're getting that much closer to a yes.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1747640,"end_time",1812780,"keywords","Recognition, sales, sales teams, rejection","slug","recognition-is-especially-key-in-sales-cultures","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","V5G3Cu2opxyPowrqWWWn01QTI8YypdMKINpYq6LpZWuc","mux_asset_id","B001Rkxvc004SlqXxWd02d6jIRIuR02lAl3zz00YLVS00N1a4","leader_id",225,"episode_id",377,"updated_at","2025-05-02T14:36:42.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2875/recognition-is-especially-key-in-sales-cultures","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_62":112,"_59":112,"_113":114,"_69":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":75,"_35":36,"_39":76,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Relationships are earned, not assumed","relationships-are-earned-not-assumed","Learn how treating relationships with care and consistency can open doors—and keep them open. Plus, tips for scaling well and building a healthy sales culture.","summary","

Want to build the working relationships that open doors—and keep them open?

In this episode of How Leaders Lead, David talks with Frank Edwards, Managing Partner of Aqueduct Capital Group.

You’ll see how Frank has built a stellar reputation—not through flashy networking, but by showing up consistently, giving credit freely, and treating every relationship with long-term respect.

It’s a masterclass in building trust that lasts!

You’ll also learn:

What your top priority should be as you’re scaling
One key element of a strong sales culture
How to follow up after someone opens a door for you
Why you need a support system

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.040\nMy whole world, I feel like, is built on relationships.\n\n2\n00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:09.440\nAnd I think your reputation is the most important thing you have in the world.\n\n3\n00:00:09.440 --> 00:00:12.640\nLet's protect that every single day.\n\n4\n00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:22.160\nWelcome to Howl Leaders Lead.\n\n5\n00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.830\nI'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the best leaders in\n\n6\n00:00:25.830 --> 00:00:26.960\nthe world to help you\n\n7\n00:00:26.960 --> 00:00:29.360\nbecome the very best leader that you can be.\n\n8\n00:00:29.360 --> 00:00:31.280\nMy guest today is Frank Edwards.\n\n9\n00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.500\nHe is the managing partner of Aqueduct Capital Group, a firm that helps\n\n10\n00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:36.000\ninvestment\n\n11\n00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.880\nmanagers raise the capital they need to grow.\n\n12\n00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:42.720\nYou know, people say that success comes down to who you know.\n\n13\n00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:47.630\nBut after this episode, you'll see it's not just who you know, it's how you\n\n14\n00:00:47.630 --> 00:00:48.640\ntreat those\n\n15\n00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.280\nthat you know.\n\n16\n00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:53.680\nAnd if you want success for the long haul, you can't take your relationships\n\n17\n00:00:53.680 --> 00:00:54.560\nfor granted.\n\n18\n00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:59.360\nIt takes effort. You've got a value and respect and recognize people you work\n\n19\n00:00:59.360 --> 00:00:59.760\nwith.\n\n20\n00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:03.600\nThat's how you create long lasting partnerships and a reputation you can be\n\n21\n00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:04.400\nproud of.\n\n22\n00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.840\nAnd let me tell you, I've known Frank for a long time and nobody models it\n\n23\n00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:09.520\nbetter.\n\n24\n00:01:09.520 --> 00:01:13.620\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Frank\n\n25\n00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:14.160\nEdwards.\n\n26\n00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:25.120\nYou know, you got a nickname, D-Dog.\n\n27\n00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:29.360\nYou got to tell me, where in the hell did you get the name D-Dog from?\n\n28\n00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:33.920\nDavid, I've had it my whole life.\n\n29\n00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:38.080\nI grew up in the eastern part of North Carolina in a very, very small town\n\n30\n00:01:38.080 --> 00:01:39.920\ncalled Roanoke Rapids.\n\n31\n00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:44.560\nAnd people in the eastern part of the state are very lazy in their speech.\n\n32\n00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:49.610\nAnd rather than saying this, that, them, and those, they'll say, \"distat, dim\n\n33\n00:01:49.610 --> 00:01:50.480\nand does.\"\n\n34\n00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:54.160\nAnd my sisters were 16, 13 when I was born.\n\n35\n00:01:54.160 --> 00:01:57.580\nAnd what I would look through the window at me and he said, \"Oh my God, he\n\n36\n00:01:57.580 --> 00:01:58.800\nlooks just like a hot dog.\"\n\n37\n00:01:58.800 --> 00:02:01.360\nAnd somebody said, \"The dog.\" And it got to be D-Dog.\n\n38\n00:02:01.360 --> 00:02:03.360\nAnd it's been that way my whole life.\n\n39\n00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:06.160\nMy mother called me that.\n\n40\n00:02:06.160 --> 00:02:09.040\nWell, you're one of the world's great guys.\n\n41\n00:02:09.040 --> 00:02:12.080\nAnd you got a great, well-deserved nickname.\n\n42\n00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:14.480\nAnd everybody calls you. Everybody loves you.\n\n43\n00:02:14.480 --> 00:02:17.120\nYou know, and you and I go way back.\n\n44\n00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.680\nSo this is going to be a lot of fun for me.\n\n45\n00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:25.270\nAnd, you know, I know firsthand that you're a hell of a leader and a tremendous\n\n46\n00:02:25.270 --> 00:02:26.160\nrelationship\n\n47\n00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:30.240\nbuilder. But before we get into all of that, you know, let's start at the\n\n48\n00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:30.720\nbeginning.\n\n49\n00:02:30.720 --> 00:02:35.360\nWhat's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you\n\n50\n00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:36.080\nare today?\n\n51\n00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.920\nIt was probably like my first kind of entrepreneurial experience.\n\n52\n00:02:39.920 --> 00:02:42.000\nI was at the University of North Carolina.\n\n53\n00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:45.680\nI was playing golf. I was at the training table one night.\n\n54\n00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:49.760\nAnd somebody came along and said, \"Hey, there's this presentation\n\n55\n00:02:49.760 --> 00:02:54.210\nfor the Southwestern Company,\" which was a company in Nashville, Tennessee that\n\n56\n00:02:54.210 --> 00:02:54.720\nsold\n\n57\n00:02:54.720 --> 00:02:57.920\npeople know it. They sold books and bottles and all that kind of stuff.\n\n58\n00:02:57.920 --> 00:03:02.450\nAnd they had a program through the NCAA that you learn how to sell fire extingu\n\n59\n00:03:02.450 --> 00:03:02.800\nishers.\n\n60\n00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:08.500\nAnd you go to a five-day training school out in Nashville, and then they set\n\n61\n00:03:08.500 --> 00:03:09.120\nyou on your way,\n\n62\n00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.320\nand you go knock on doors and you sell fire extinguishers.\n\n63\n00:03:12.320 --> 00:03:18.880\nAnd I probably learned more about myself and how to sell in that first summer.\n\n64\n00:03:18.880 --> 00:03:23.120\nI ended up doing it for three summers. But I learned more that first summer\n\n65\n00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:24.640\nabout how to sell\n\n66\n00:03:24.640 --> 00:03:30.000\nand rejection than it kind of shaped me for the rest of my career.\n\n67\n00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:31.840\nYeah, I love that. You know what?\n\n68\n00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:37.240\nEarly on in my career, I sold encyclopedias and pots of pans. So I could relate\n\n69\n00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:37.600\nto that.\n\n70\n00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:42.720\nSo tell us a story about when you got rejected and how you handle it when you\n\n71\n00:03:42.720 --> 00:03:43.280\nwere knocking on\n\n72\n00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:48.600\nthose doors. David, I've got way too many stories here. But I got rejected a\n\n73\n00:03:48.600 --> 00:03:49.760\nwhole lot.\n\n74\n00:03:49.760 --> 00:03:54.640\nAnd the way they taught you to do it was you went in and this was all around\n\n75\n00:03:54.640 --> 00:04:00.120\nHalon 1211 and 1301. Same thing they used in the space shuttle and they used an\n\n76\n00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:01.200\naircraft today.\n\n77\n00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:05.040\nAnd you would go in and you'd build like a little, you were trying to simulate\n\n78\n00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:05.840\na grease fire.\n\n79\n00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:09.440\nAnd it was a little pan that they gave you and you put it out. And I mean, I\n\n80\n00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:10.400\nhad more mistakes\n\n81\n00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:13.800\nwhere I'd catch something else on fire and in the house and I'd have to put it\n\n82\n00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:14.080\nout.\n\n83\n00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:18.880\nAnd I had people go through my whole sales pitch and they'd say, I really don't\n\n84\n00:04:18.880 --> 00:04:19.600\nneed any fire\n\n85\n00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.820\nextinguishers. And you just got to deal with all kinds of different people and\n\n86\n00:04:23.820 --> 00:04:24.800\npersonalities.\n\n87\n00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:30.000\nAnd you just learn a ton. And it was fabulous for me.\n\n88\n00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.240\nThat's great. And so you go to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.\n\n89\n00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:39.610\nYou're in the South. Do you need that Southern hospitality stuff that you haven\n\n90\n00:04:39.610 --> 00:04:40.640\n't grown up?\n\n91\n00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:43.760\nIs that something that you carried over into your leadership style?\n\n92\n00:04:43.760 --> 00:04:48.480\nFor sure. I'd say I really learned that from my parents early on. My mother was\n\n93\n00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:48.480\n,\n\n94\n00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:55.040\nand my dad, were extremely focused on manners. It was yes ma'am and no ma'am\n\n95\n00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:55.920\nand yes sir and no\n\n96\n00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:00.110\nsir. A lady gets up from the table. You stand up, you pull out her chair for.\n\n97\n00:05:00.110 --> 00:05:00.720\nMy mother was a\n\n98\n00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:05.040\nstickler about that kind of stuff. It certainly helped shape me and have tried\n\n99\n00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.640\nto pass that along\n\n100\n00:05:06.640 --> 00:05:13.280\nto our children as well. You grow up in the South and end up going to New York\n\n101\n00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:13.920\nand you're in this\n\n102\n00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:22.240\ncountry world of investment banking. What took you there Frank? How did you get\n\n103\n00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:22.800\nto New York?\n\n104\n00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:31.200\nWhat got you into investment banking? I had a very close family friend that\n\n105\n00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:32.480\nalmost like a\n\n106\n00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:35.920\ngodfather kind of figure to me that was really close friends with my mom. His\n\n107\n00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:36.560\nname was Billy\n\n108\n00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.830\nArmfield. He was the one that got me to go to Woodbury to begin with. He\n\n109\n00:05:40.830 --> 00:05:42.320\nconvinced me to go to\n\n110\n00:05:42.320 --> 00:05:46.640\nNorth Carolina. And then one day I was playing golf with him in Greensboro. And\n\n111\n00:05:46.640 --> 00:05:47.200\nhe said,\n\n112\n00:05:47.200 --> 00:05:51.440\nyou really ought to think about trying to do a summer internship in New York.\n\n113\n00:05:51.440 --> 00:05:54.930\nAnd I called him Uncle Whitey. I said, \"I don't know anybody. I've been in New\n\n114\n00:05:54.930 --> 00:05:56.240\nYork once in my life.\"\n\n115\n00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:01.550\nThe very next day I was in the undergraduate business program at Chapel Hill.\n\n116\n00:06:01.550 --> 00:06:03.120\nAnd my finance\n\n117\n00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:07.200\nprofessor who I'd played a lot of golf with, he'd been at Chemical Bank for 33\n\n118\n00:06:07.200 --> 00:06:08.560\nyears. He'd retired\n\n119\n00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.850\nto the governor's club there in Chapel Hill. He said the exact same thing to me\n\n120\n00:06:12.850 --> 00:06:13.840\n. I mean like within\n\n121\n00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:17.890\na 24-hour period, you ought to think about going to New York. And I'm like, I\n\n122\n00:06:17.890 --> 00:06:19.120\ndon't know anything\n\n123\n00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.060\nabout New York. I don't know the first person to reach out to or anything.\n\n124\n00:06:23.060 --> 00:06:23.680\nAnyway, both these\n\n125\n00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.660\ngentlemen gave me some direction and gave me some people to reach out to, which\n\n126\n00:06:28.660 --> 00:06:29.680\nI did. I ended up\n\n127\n00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:34.590\ngoing up in interviewing. And I was fortunate enough to get a spot for the\n\n128\n00:06:34.590 --> 00:06:36.320\nsummer at Morgan Stanley.\n\n129\n00:06:36.320 --> 00:06:40.320\nI worked in their high net worth group. And I mean, David, I didn't know the\n\n130\n00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:41.120\ndifference between a\n\n131\n00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.600\nstock and a bond. I mean, I was a sponge trying to learn as much as I could.\n\n132\n00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.440\nAnd I basically walked\n\n133\n00:06:47.440 --> 00:06:50.880\naround with a yellow legal pad all summer. And I wrote down every question that\n\n134\n00:06:50.880 --> 00:06:51.840\nI didn't know the\n\n135\n00:06:51.840 --> 00:06:58.040\nanswer to, which was a lot. And I had a few people that really stepped up for\n\n136\n00:06:58.040 --> 00:06:59.280\nme and would answer all\n\n137\n00:06:59.280 --> 00:07:03.380\nthose questions for me at the end of the day. And it was just a tremendous\n\n138\n00:07:03.380 --> 00:07:04.400\nexperience.\n\n139\n00:07:04.400 --> 00:07:08.480\nSo you spend 11 years at Morgan Stanley, a fantastic firm, and you were leading\n\n140\n00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:09.920\none of the largest\n\n141\n00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:14.840\nprivate client teams. What you do, Frank, that as a leader that really\n\n142\n00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:16.080\ndifferentiated yourself,\n\n143\n00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:20.800\nand when you look back, and I know you're a humble guy, but if you had to brag\n\n144\n00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:21.680\non yourself a little\n\n145\n00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:27.630\nbit, what was it that you had that helped you climb up in that kind of rough\n\n146\n00:07:27.630 --> 00:07:28.800\nand tumble world,\n\n147\n00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:32.280\nwhere you're dealing with a lot of smart people? Well, I definitely was at the\n\n148\n00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:33.360\nsmartest. I think\n\n149\n00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.360\nthat was probably one of the biggest things about Morgan Stanley is that you\n\n150\n00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:38.240\nfelt like you always\n\n151\n00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:42.040\nhad the best, the best on the other end of the phone. And you're always\n\n152\n00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:43.360\nlearning. You felt like\n\n153\n00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:47.010\nyou were learning, certainly from a product and service perspective, you were\n\n154\n00:07:47.010 --> 00:07:47.680\nlearning from the\n\n155\n00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.690\nbest. And that gave you the confidence to go out there and put that in front of\n\n156\n00:07:52.690 --> 00:07:54.000\nother people.\n\n157\n00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:00.360\nI think it's a big part of that is listening and trying to understand what\n\n158\n00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:01.680\nsomebody needs and how\n\n159\n00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:08.080\nyou can best provide for or service that client. And so I always tried to do a\n\n160\n00:08:08.080 --> 00:08:09.520\nwhole lot of listening,\n\n161\n00:08:09.520 --> 00:08:14.800\nbut also think it's about you got to build a team internally, and you got to\n\n162\n00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:15.760\nestablish yourself\n\n163\n00:08:15.760 --> 00:08:20.160\nand build respect internally to be able to get things done in a firm like that.\n\n164\n00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:25.010\nAnd it was as much about building relationships internally as it was externally\n\n165\n00:08:25.010 --> 00:08:25.280\n.\n\n166\n00:08:25.280 --> 00:08:29.360\nYou know, Frank, I've heard you say that, you know, and I'll quote you here,\n\n167\n00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:30.560\nyou have heard you say,\n\n168\n00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:35.480\nall we have in this world is our reputation, and you wake up every day\n\n169\n00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.360\ndefending it. Say more.\n\n170\n00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:44.310\nMy whole world, I feel like is built on relationships. And I think your\n\n171\n00:08:44.310 --> 00:08:46.640\nreputation is the most important\n\n172\n00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:51.760\nthing you have in the world. And I do wake up and think about how, you know,\n\n173\n00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:53.120\nlet's protect that\n\n174\n00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:59.480\nevery single day. And I talked to everybody in our firm about that, that, you\n\n175\n00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:00.720\nknow, when it comes\n\n176\n00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:04.030\nto writing an email, when it comes to sending a text, when it comes to talking\n\n177\n00:09:04.030 --> 00:09:04.800\nto somebody on the\n\n178\n00:09:04.800 --> 00:09:09.520\nphone, don't say or put in print or do anything that you don't want to be on\n\n179\n00:09:09.520 --> 00:09:10.000\nthe cover of the\n\n180\n00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:13.840\nWall Street Journal. I just think that's really important in the way you relate\n\n181\n00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:14.720\nto people and how\n\n182\n00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.520\nyou continue to build these relationships. You know, tell me a story if you\n\n183\n00:09:18.520 --> 00:09:20.320\nhave one where you felt\n\n184\n00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:25.040\nlike, you know, your reputation might have been at risk. I mean, where you\n\n185\n00:09:25.040 --> 00:09:25.920\nreally were kind of\n\n186\n00:09:25.920 --> 00:09:31.440\nputting the pickle when you thought about, you know, the options that you have.\n\n187\n00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:32.080\nDo you have any\n\n188\n00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:39.580\nlike that? I do where I've been, I've been challenged by a situation and had to\n\n189\n00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:41.200\nhave legal counsel get\n\n190\n00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:47.110\ninvolved. And the biggest thing that bothered me about the whole thing was, you\n\n191\n00:09:47.110 --> 00:09:48.640\nknow, my integrity\n\n192\n00:09:48.640 --> 00:09:52.980\nwas questioned and had to spend about seven or eight months going through a\n\n193\n00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:53.840\nlegal process\n\n194\n00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:59.050\ndefending that it wasn't the money, it wasn't the time. It was just the fact\n\n195\n00:09:59.050 --> 00:10:00.000\nthat somebody was\n\n196\n00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.620\nquestioning that it really, really bothered me. How did you get yourself up\n\n197\n00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:04.240\nduring that period?\n\n198\n00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:07.800\nI mean, because here you are, the thing that matters most to you is being\n\n199\n00:10:07.800 --> 00:10:08.960\nattacked. You got to get\n\n200\n00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:11.970\nthe lawyers. You're not focused on your clients at that time. You know, when\n\n201\n00:10:11.970 --> 00:10:12.880\nyou're in with them,\n\n202\n00:10:12.880 --> 00:10:18.130\nyou're just trying to protect yourself and the, you know, who you are. What did\n\n203\n00:10:18.130 --> 00:10:18.960\nyou do to get\n\n204\n00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:23.020\nyourself up off the floor and, you know, stay positive because you're a hell of\n\n205\n00:10:23.020 --> 00:10:24.080\na positive guy.\n\n206\n00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:29.520\nYou got to have a really, really strong, I think in order to be a great leader\n\n207\n00:10:29.520 --> 00:10:31.360\nand to lead people,\n\n208\n00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:37.040\nyou've got to have a tremendous life partner. And I am incredibly fortunate\n\n209\n00:10:37.040 --> 00:10:37.920\nthat I am married\n\n210\n00:10:37.920 --> 00:10:43.850\nto my best friend in the world. And she understands me so well and can read me\n\n211\n00:10:43.850 --> 00:10:45.600\nwithout, I don't even\n\n212\n00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.150\nhave to open my mouth. And she can tell me, you know, how I'm feeling and what\n\n213\n00:10:49.150 --> 00:10:50.000\nI'm thinking. And\n\n214\n00:10:50.560 --> 00:10:56.320\nwe've been married for 25 years. We've been together 31 years. And throughout\n\n215\n00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:57.360\nthat process,\n\n216\n00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:02.220\nshe was an incredible supporter and a great motivator. I give her a tremendous\n\n217\n00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:03.120\namount of credit.\n\n218\n00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:08.450\nAll the hard stuff that I've been through in business or just in life, she's\n\n219\n00:11:08.450 --> 00:11:09.600\nbeen an amazing\n\n220\n00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:14.400\npartner. That's fantastic. And, you know, I know you walked the talk on that\n\n221\n00:11:14.400 --> 00:11:15.520\nbecause you've talked\n\n222\n00:11:15.520 --> 00:11:20.280\nabout her many times. And that's great that you share that. You know, you are\n\n223\n00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:21.360\nso intentional\n\n224\n00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:28.000\nabout building relationships and serving your clients. Give us two or three\n\n225\n00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:28.880\nbits of advice.\n\n226\n00:11:28.880 --> 00:11:33.280\nYou'd have the leaders who do want to do the exact same thing.\n\n227\n00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:37.720\nYou know, David, I think you have to be really passionate about what you do.\n\n228\n00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:38.720\nYou got to wake up.\n\n229\n00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:44.590\nAnd I mean, you got to you got to surround yourself by very competent people\n\n230\n00:11:44.590 --> 00:11:46.320\nand that have a similar\n\n231\n00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:52.000\ngoal. And you've got to think about how you're going to inspire them to go out\n\n232\n00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:53.680\nand fight the fight\n\n233\n00:11:53.680 --> 00:11:59.110\nevery single day. You got to give them the tools to be able to do that. And you\n\n234\n00:11:59.110 --> 00:12:00.640\ngot to support them.\n\n235\n00:12:00.640 --> 00:12:04.770\nAnd again, going back to what you're asking me about Morgan Stanley, I think,\n\n236\n00:12:04.770 --> 00:12:05.680\nyou know, having\n\n237\n00:12:05.680 --> 00:12:11.490\nreally strong relationships internally is as important as externally. And you\n\n238\n00:12:11.490 --> 00:12:12.400\nwant to give\n\n239\n00:12:12.400 --> 00:12:16.560\neverybody that goes out there in battles with you on a daily basis. You want to\n\n240\n00:12:16.560 --> 00:12:17.200\ngive them that\n\n241\n00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:22.810\nsupport. But you also want to give them the confidence to go out and project\n\n242\n00:12:22.810 --> 00:12:24.000\nand so and\n\n243\n00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:29.120\nagain, protect that reputation of the firm and continue to build it. You want\n\n244\n00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:30.000\nall those people\n\n245\n00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.040\nthat work with you and there's nobody in the world better at this than you.\n\n246\n00:12:34.040 --> 00:12:34.720\nFrom a recognition\n\n247\n00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:40.480\nstandpoint and recognizing people and wanting them to go to battle with you on\n\n248\n00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:41.840\na daily basis and\n\n249\n00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.570\nbe in the ditch with you when things aren't the best. That's what it's all\n\n250\n00:12:45.570 --> 00:12:47.280\nabout. And when things\n\n251\n00:12:47.280 --> 00:12:51.330\nare good, that's it's even that much better. Hey, everyone, it's Kula from How\n\n252\n00:12:51.330 --> 00:12:52.000\nLeaders Lead.\n\n253\n00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:55.750\nAnd we have a brand new playlist available in the How Leaders Lead app. And I\n\n254\n00:12:55.750 --> 00:12:56.320\nwant to tell you\n\n255\n00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.730\nabout it. It's all about how you can fuel yourself up to show up in the very\n\n256\n00:13:00.730 --> 00:13:02.320\nbest way as a leader.\n\n257\n00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:06.080\nThe playlist is called Wellness and the Workplace. And it'll inspire you to do\n\n258\n00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:06.880\nthe things that you\n\n259\n00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:11.040\nneed to do on a daily basis so that you show up mentally sharp, physically\n\n260\n00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:12.400\nsharp, and emotionally\n\n261\n00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:16.480\nsharp, and so that you can lead your people in the way that they deserve to be\n\n262\n00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:17.760\nled. Grab access to\n\n263\n00:13:17.760 --> 00:13:22.210\nthe playlist. You can either click this link or download the How Leaders Lead\n\n264\n00:13:22.210 --> 00:13:23.520\napp, tap playlists,\n\n265\n00:13:23.520 --> 00:13:26.960\nand listen to the Wellness and the Workplace playlist. You can literally just\n\n266\n00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:27.600\nlisten to it\n\n267\n00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.830\nlike you would a Spotify playlist tapping the first track and then letting it\n\n268\n00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:33.040\nplay all the way through.\n\n269\n00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:38.050\nI hope this playlist will inspire you to do those things that you know, fuel\n\n270\n00:13:38.050 --> 00:13:38.880\nyourself,\n\n271\n00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:43.890\nand fill your cup so that you can show up in the very best way for your people.\n\n272\n00:13:43.890 --> 00:13:44.400\nGet access to\n\n273\n00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:49.150\nthis playlist today. Well, Frank, you had an impressive career at Morgan\n\n274\n00:13:49.150 --> 00:13:52.320\nStanley. But in 2001,\n\n275\n00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:59.600\nit took a huge leap. You left after 11 years to start your own firm. Walk me\n\n276\n00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:00.240\nthrough that\n\n277\n00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:05.430\ndecision. And what gave you the confidence? What gave you the confidence to\n\n278\n00:14:05.430 --> 00:14:06.800\nstep out there and\n\n279\n00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:11.860\njump into that prior patch? Knowing what I know now, I questioned myself as\n\n280\n00:14:11.860 --> 00:14:13.600\nwell. But at the time,\n\n281\n00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:20.160\nMorgan Stanley had merged with Dean Whitter just in the late '90s. And being in\n\n282\n00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:20.320\nthat\n\n283\n00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:26.230\nhad net worth group, that was a very tough merger. We were about 250 people\n\n284\n00:14:26.230 --> 00:14:27.520\nworldwide within that\n\n285\n00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:31.210\ngroup, within the firm. And all of a sudden, we merged with Dean Whitter and\n\n286\n00:14:31.210 --> 00:14:32.640\nthey had 11,000\n\n287\n00:14:32.640 --> 00:14:39.250\nbrokers that it was a very different culture. And I just thought it was going\n\n288\n00:14:39.250 --> 00:14:39.760\nto be now,\n\n289\n00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:43.160\nit's turned out to be a great situation for Morgan Stanley, if you fast forward\n\n290\n00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:43.760\nto today,\n\n291\n00:14:43.760 --> 00:14:49.360\nwith the way they built that business. However, at the time, I thought that\n\n292\n00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:50.080\nthat was going to be\n\n293\n00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:55.680\na pretty tough road. And I had an idea with my partner from Morgan Stanley,\n\n294\n00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:56.720\nChris Clark,\n\n295\n00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.760\nanother guy named John Duryay, who had come from Goldman Sachs. We were going\n\n296\n00:15:00.760 --> 00:15:01.440\nout to start a\n\n297\n00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:07.440\nlong short equity hedge fund focused on consumer-related areas. And my role was\n\n298\n00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:08.000\nputting together and\n\n299\n00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.410\nraised the capitol for it. We had a discretionary money management business\n\n300\n00:15:11.410 --> 00:15:12.080\nwithin our group at\n\n301\n00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.360\nMorgan Stanley. Obviously, had some conversations with those clients about\n\n302\n00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.280\nsupporting us in that\n\n303\n00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:24.480\nendeavor. And so we left Morgan Stanley the first week of July, 2001. And we\n\n304\n00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:25.440\nwere planning to start\n\n305\n00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:30.770\nOctober 1st. This little event called 9/11 happened in the middle. And we\n\n306\n00:15:30.770 --> 00:15:32.480\nstarted with about 10% of\n\n307\n00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:37.060\nthe capitol that we had originally planned. I can only tell you that I laid in\n\n308\n00:15:37.060 --> 00:15:37.840\nbed and didn't\n\n309\n00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:42.170\nget a whole lot of sleep, staring at the ceiling thinking, \"Okay, I've just\n\n310\n00:15:42.170 --> 00:15:43.600\nwalked away from being\n\n311\n00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:51.590\nin Morgan Stanley for almost 11 years. And I have a child and married and here\n\n312\n00:15:51.590 --> 00:15:52.480\nI am with a business\n\n313\n00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.800\nthat is not in a position that we thought it was going to be.\" So what do you\n\n314\n00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:57.360\ndo, Frank?\n\n315\n00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.440\nYou put your head down and you work hard and you try to figure it out. And\n\n316\n00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.040\nagain, you got to have\n\n317\n00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:06.660\nthat support system around you. As I mentioned, Catherine, before, she was just\n\n318\n00:16:06.660 --> 00:16:07.600\nan amazing partner\n\n319\n00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:13.630\nthroughout that whole process. Never put any pressure on me to do anything. We\n\n320\n00:16:13.630 --> 00:16:14.160\nwere living in\n\n321\n00:16:14.160 --> 00:16:19.110\nNew York at the time. We made the decision that we were going to move to\n\n322\n00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:20.560\nCharlotte, where we were\n\n323\n00:16:20.560 --> 00:16:26.040\ngoing to put roots down as a family. And I told her I would go anywhere as long\n\n324\n00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:26.720\nas I had a good\n\n325\n00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:34.960\nairport. And that's what we did. And so I had a lot of conversations. But I had\n\n326\n00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:35.200\none\n\n327\n00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:41.600\nincredibly close friend that's been an unbelievable mentor to me that you know\n\n328\n00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:42.720\nhim very well. His\n\n329\n00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.470\nname is Bobby Long. And I'll never get out sitting in my office in New York.\n\n330\n00:16:48.470 --> 00:16:50.560\nAnd he called me on the\n\n331\n00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:54.610\nphone. He said, \"You don't sound exactly right.\" Long story short, he said, \"\n\n332\n00:16:54.610 --> 00:16:55.600\nWhy don't you fly down\n\n333\n00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:59.190\nhere and have dinner with me tonight?\" And I did. I left and I went to\n\n334\n00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:00.640\nWilmington and spent the\n\n335\n00:17:00.640 --> 00:17:05.940\nnight with him. I had dinner. And he said, \"Tell me what you're thinking.\" And\n\n336\n00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:06.880\nthose conversations\n\n337\n00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.530\ncontinued. And finally, a few months later, one of the ideas I had was,\n\n338\n00:17:11.530 --> 00:17:13.520\nobviously, I'd gone out\n\n339\n00:17:13.520 --> 00:17:19.120\nto represent one fund and raise capital for that one fund. And the idea was,\n\n340\n00:17:19.120 --> 00:17:19.760\nlet's go put\n\n341\n00:17:19.760 --> 00:17:23.530\ntogether a platform that I could represent multiple managers simultaneously\n\n342\n00:17:23.530 --> 00:17:24.800\nrather than just one.\n\n343\n00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:30.480\nBobby was an incredible support system, if you will, not to mention my original\n\n344\n00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:31.120\ncapital to get\n\n345\n00:17:31.120 --> 00:17:36.390\nstarted. We ended up starting that platform in November of 2003. And then, you\n\n346\n00:17:36.390 --> 00:17:37.840\nknow, what led you\n\n347\n00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:43.760\nto move from that and found aqueduct in 2006? We started it as alpha link\n\n348\n00:17:43.760 --> 00:17:45.280\npartners. The idea\n\n349\n00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:48.900\nwas finding managers that create alpha and putting them together with investors\n\n350\n00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:52.640\n. In January of 2006,\n\n351\n00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.850\nwe were fortunate enough to do a partnership with a group in New York called\n\n352\n00:17:55.850 --> 00:17:57.280\nReservoir Capital.\n\n353\n00:17:57.280 --> 00:18:01.600\nIt was Dan Stern and Craig Huff. Dan and Craig had started the Ziff Family\n\n354\n00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:02.560\nOffice, and then they\n\n355\n00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:09.550\nstarted Reservoir. They were absolutely amazing, amazing partners. And they\n\n356\n00:18:09.550 --> 00:18:10.480\nwanted a name of the\n\n357\n00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.440\nfirm that a little more closely aligned with their name Reservoir. And that's\n\n358\n00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:15.360\nwhere we came up with\n\n359\n00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:18.940\naqueduct. What was the breakthrough idea for this business? Why did you think\n\n360\n00:18:18.940 --> 00:18:19.840\nyou could make this\n\n361\n00:18:19.840 --> 00:18:23.760\none go? It was the same strategy. Same business model was alpha link. But what\n\n362\n00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:25.280\nwe did when we\n\n363\n00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:31.040\ndid the partnership with Reservoir, we basically had stopped. We didn't focus\n\n364\n00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:31.760\nreally on the hedge\n\n365\n00:18:31.760 --> 00:18:34.840\nfund side of the business anymore. It was mainly more in the private equity and\n\n366\n00:18:34.840 --> 00:18:36.240\nprivate credit arena.\n\n367\n00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:40.880\nReservoir had had such an amazing record. They'd been had such a great offer\n\n368\n00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:42.960\ntalent in not only\n\n369\n00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:47.000\nseating managers, but investing in managers. And really, we really wanted to\n\n370\n00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:48.240\ntap into that resource,\n\n371\n00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:57.200\nwhich is what we did. They had seeded Danny Ockett, Oxif, SAB, Anchorage. They\n\n372\n00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:58.480\njust had an amazing,\n\n373\n00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:03.380\noffer talent. And they really gave us tremendous credibility in the marketplace\n\n374\n00:19:03.380 --> 00:19:03.680\n.\n\n375\n00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.080\nAnd that was a tremendous breakthrough for us. That was in January of 2006.\n\n376\n00:19:08.080 --> 00:19:12.160\nAnd your business, the manager's key, right? So basically, we're looking, we're\n\n377\n00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:12.640\ngoing out there\n\n378\n00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:21.640\nand trying to find managers that have a repeatable model and can deliver year\n\n379\n00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.920\nafter year and with\n\n380\n00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:31.210\nconsistency and a team. And that's obviously hard to find. But yet, we want to\n\n381\n00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:32.080\ngo identify those\n\n382\n00:19:32.080 --> 00:19:35.560\nmanagers that we can partner with, put our name alongside them and go out and\n\n383\n00:19:35.560 --> 00:19:36.160\nraise their\n\n384\n00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:41.750\ncap reform. And typically, that's been doing fund two, fund three, fund four.\n\n385\n00:19:41.750 --> 00:19:42.880\nWe're doing a fund\n\n386\n00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.250\n11 right now. But it's typically in managers that have a specialty in one area\n\n387\n00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:48.080\nor another.\n\n388\n00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:52.180\nWe're going to go out and raise that cap reform. We're going to insurance\n\n389\n00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:52.880\ncompanies,\n\n390\n00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:59.710\nRAs, pension plans, both corporate and state, multi-family office platforms,\n\n391\n00:19:59.710 --> 00:20:01.520\nfamily offices.\n\n392\n00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:08.480\nWe're really typically, usually trying to raise somewhere in the $250 to $900\n\n393\n00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:09.600\nmillion per manager.\n\n394\n00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:15.680\nYou're now known for having that incredible eye for talent. I mean, you're\n\n395\n00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:16.640\nknown in the industry\n\n396\n00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:23.520\nfor a guy who can pick those managers. What are the big traits you look for and\n\n397\n00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:24.320\nthe process\n\n398\n00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:27.520\nyou use to really figure out if they're right to link up to?\n\n399\n00:20:27.520 --> 00:20:34.400\nI feel like I have a good eye for people's character and how they're going to\n\n400\n00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.800\nbe as people. But I have\n\n401\n00:20:36.800 --> 00:20:42.320\na wonderful partner in a gentleman by the name of Juan Chateverdi that runs all\n\n402\n00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:43.040\nof our sourcing\n\n403\n00:20:43.040 --> 00:20:47.440\nand due diligence team. He's supported by several other bike rivers internally\n\n404\n00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:48.800\nand several people\n\n405\n00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:53.970\non their team that do that for us. When they need our input, they bring us in.\n\n406\n00:20:53.970 --> 00:20:54.560\nAnd then,\n\n407\n00:20:54.560 --> 00:21:01.760\nwhen Juan boils down that list, he's seen 300 managers a year. And he boils\n\n408\n00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:02.800\nthat down to a list\n\n409\n00:21:02.800 --> 00:21:08.960\nof probably 25 to 30. And when he gets down to 15 to 20, we all get involved\n\n410\n00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:10.320\nand fond to see what\n\n411\n00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:13.970\nis the right strategy and the right personality fit. Because we really look at\n\n412\n00:21:13.970 --> 00:21:14.880\nthis as a marriage\n\n413\n00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.750\nwith these managers. These are typically 10-year partnerships. You spend an\n\n414\n00:21:19.750 --> 00:21:21.120\nawful lot of time with\n\n415\n00:21:21.120 --> 00:21:25.400\nthese general partners, not to mention you're usually investing your own\n\n416\n00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:26.720\ncapital with them as well.\n\n417\n00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:34.660\nFrank, I don't think I'm doing anything that isn't wide open and I don't think\n\n418\n00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:35.440\nit's confidential. But\n\n419\n00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:42.540\nI want to just walk through an example of how you cultivate a business and grow\n\n420\n00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:43.280\nit.\n\n421\n00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:52.790\nFirst of all, starting out with Yum Brands. Yum Brands, I get a call from you.\n\n422\n00:21:52.790 --> 00:21:54.400\nAnd what do you say to me?\n\n423\n00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:58.480\nWell, is it okay for me to talk about a real situation?\n\n424\n00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:00.560\nYeah, absolutely. That's what I want.\n\n425\n00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:06.960\nWe partnered with a group about three years ago called Monarch that's based\n\n426\n00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:07.760\ndown in Atlanta.\n\n427\n00:22:08.320 --> 00:22:13.450\nIncredible at what they do. They are basically dealing in the tax equity arena.\n\n428\n00:22:13.450 --> 00:22:13.840\nWhat that\n\n429\n00:22:13.840 --> 00:22:18.520\ntranslates to is you're going out to identify really fortune 100 and fortune\n\n430\n00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:19.760\n500 companies\n\n431\n00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:25.890\nthat have a significant tax liability, federal tax liability. And what Monarch\n\n432\n00:22:25.890 --> 00:22:26.560\ndoes through\n\n433\n00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:35.080\nlow-income housing and solar and things like that, they are helping them with\n\n434\n00:22:35.080 --> 00:22:36.640\nthat liability.\n\n435\n00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:42.400\nYou're really doing a tremendous service to these companies because this is a\n\n436\n00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:43.360\nnew thing out there.\n\n437\n00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:49.680\nAnd Monarch has been amazing partners, but I reached out to you. I know you\n\n438\n00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:49.840\nwere\n\n439\n00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:54.430\nobviously running Yum, but I know you're still heavily, still very much\n\n440\n00:22:54.430 --> 00:22:54.800\ninvolved.\n\n441\n00:22:54.800 --> 00:23:01.920\nAnd typically, I just look for a way to get to either the person that is\n\n442\n00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.600\nleading tax or is the\n\n443\n00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:08.320\nCFO in the company. And I just have an initial conversation with them to walk\n\n444\n00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:08.560\nthem through\n\n445\n00:23:08.560 --> 00:23:12.130\nwhat we're doing and trying to educate them and see if there might be a fit\n\n446\n00:23:12.130 --> 00:23:12.640\nthere.\n\n447\n00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:16.170\nYeah, I remember you saying, \"Hey, David, if you could just kind of open up the\n\n448\n00:23:16.170 --> 00:23:16.960\ndoor for me with\n\n449\n00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:24.030\nsomebody, not asking for anything else there, just open up the door.\" So you\n\n450\n00:23:24.030 --> 00:23:24.800\nget in the door,\n\n451\n00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:28.400\nyou make a sale, right? We try to close all the time.\n\n452\n00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.760\nYeah, okay. So you make this up now. Here's another thing that I thought was\n\n453\n00:23:31.760 --> 00:23:32.800\nvery instructional.\n\n454\n00:23:32.800 --> 00:23:41.600\nOnce you made that sale, you got back to me. You came back to me and talk about\n\n455\n00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:42.320\nthat process\n\n456\n00:23:42.320 --> 00:23:45.730\nbecause I'm sure I'm not the only guy you've ever done that. I was a guy who\n\n457\n00:23:45.730 --> 00:23:46.480\nopened up a door\n\n458\n00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:51.680\nfor you, was not involved at all, okay, in the sale or anything else.\n\n459\n00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:59.360\nIt's all about the relationship. You were kind enough to vouch for me. You put\n\n460\n00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:00.080\nyour neck out\n\n461\n00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:06.790\non the line for me. That is, I wouldn't have had a warm call at young by any\n\n462\n00:24:06.790 --> 00:24:08.480\nmeans had it not been\n\n463\n00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:13.680\nfor you reaching out and vouching for me. And therefore, I want you to know\n\n464\n00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:15.040\nexactly how that process\n\n465\n00:24:15.040 --> 00:24:20.960\ntakes place. I want you to know if it ends in a great way or not a good way or\n\n466\n00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:21.680\nI want you to know\n\n467\n00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:26.120\nthe result. I want to close the loop there and keep you up on the process\n\n468\n00:24:26.120 --> 00:24:27.040\nbecause I want you to\n\n469\n00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:30.640\nknow how much I appreciate you doing that for me. And again, that's all part of\n\n470\n00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:31.760\nthat relationship.\n\n471\n00:24:31.760 --> 00:24:34.720\nThat was very impressive because it's something that you kind of take for\n\n472\n00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:35.440\ngranted, Frank.\n\n473\n00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:42.320\nBut I don't think I've ever had anybody do that with BMO opening up a door from\n\n474\n00:24:42.320 --> 00:24:43.200\nthe outside or\n\n475\n00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:47.580\nwhatever like that. And I wasn't expecting it, but it came out of the blue. But\n\n476\n00:24:47.580 --> 00:24:48.400\nif I ever had a\n\n477\n00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.800\nchance to vouch for you and your business and your ability to impact a client,\n\n478\n00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:54.400\nI would certainly\n\n479\n00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:58.320\ndo it. So I thought that was really instructional. So you're kind. I appreciate\n\n480\n00:24:58.320 --> 00:24:58.560\nthat.\n\n481\n00:24:58.560 --> 00:25:04.420\nSo you go out and you obviously you have your current clients and then you try\n\n482\n00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:05.040\nto bring on new\n\n483\n00:25:05.040 --> 00:25:10.240\nones. When you think about your business, do you see your model being more\n\n484\n00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:11.200\ntaking your existing\n\n485\n00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:16.330\nclients and growing them? Or how much is getting new business and new clients\n\n486\n00:25:16.330 --> 00:25:18.000\nreally drive your\n\n487\n00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.890\nbusiness? We're always looking for new clients. However, we have also found\n\n488\n00:25:22.890 --> 00:25:24.720\nthat we've grown\n\n489\n00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:29.420\nmore by doing more with our current clients. We've been very fortunate over the\n\n490\n00:25:29.420 --> 00:25:30.000\nlast couple\n\n491\n00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:36.010\nyears built a great following down in Australia. You know my business partner,\n\n492\n00:25:36.010 --> 00:25:36.640\nSteve Lessing,\n\n493\n00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.010\nreally well, he has done just an unbelievable job in building out Australia for\n\n494\n00:25:42.010 --> 00:25:43.440\nus. And again,\n\n495\n00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:50.160\nthat's a very, very relationship focused place. And Steve has really put in the\n\n496\n00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.120\ntime and spent a\n\n497\n00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:54.730\nlot of time down there over the last, you know, call it eight or nine years.\n\n498\n00:25:54.730 --> 00:25:56.800\nAnd it, we didn't do\n\n499\n00:25:56.800 --> 00:26:00.870\nany business in Australia for about four years, but we kept fighting the fight\n\n500\n00:26:00.870 --> 00:26:02.320\nand we knew it would\n\n501\n00:26:02.320 --> 00:26:07.820\neventually come. And it's turned out to be a really very significant part of\n\n502\n00:26:07.820 --> 00:26:09.200\nour business today.\n\n503\n00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:16.000\nAnd again, it's extremely relationship oriented. And it's been great for us.\n\n504\n00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.990\nA lot of entrepreneurs like yourself, you start your business, you start\n\n505\n00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:22.480\nachieving success,\n\n506\n00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:28.160\nand then you really try to scale it and grow like crazy. Has there ever been a\n\n507\n00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:28.560\ntime,\n\n508\n00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:35.920\nFranklin, where you felt like you were getting ahead of your skis? And then how\n\n509\n00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:36.480\ndid you work\n\n510\n00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:41.760\nyour way through that? I've definitely had periods where I had ideas that I\n\n511\n00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:43.120\nthought would give us\n\n512\n00:26:43.120 --> 00:26:50.160\nmore scale. And it's really, David, it's really boiled down to the people. You\n\n513\n00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:51.120\ngot to bring the\n\n514\n00:26:51.120 --> 00:26:55.520\nright people on as partners internally. And you got to partner for us, you got\n\n515\n00:26:55.520 --> 00:26:56.000\nto partner with\n\n516\n00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:01.510\nthe right people externally. There have been situations where we have, we've\n\n517\n00:27:01.510 --> 00:27:02.960\nhired the wrong\n\n518\n00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:08.160\npeople, and it hasn't worked out well. And that's a tough thing to unwind in\n\n519\n00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:08.880\nour arena,\n\n520\n00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:16.120\nbecause when you bring somebody on, it takes at least 12 to 18 months for\n\n521\n00:27:16.120 --> 00:27:17.200\nsomebody to really get\n\n522\n00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:22.930\nup to speed, get their feet under them and start producing. If it's not working\n\n523\n00:27:22.930 --> 00:27:24.880\n, you're 18 to\n\n524\n00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:32.800\n24 months into this thing, and it's tough to unwind. And I've certainly made a\n\n525\n00:27:33.280 --> 00:27:37.910\nton of mistakes. You learn a whole lot more from your mistakes than you do your\n\n526\n00:27:37.910 --> 00:27:38.800\nwins. And\n\n527\n00:27:38.800 --> 00:27:43.600\nI think we've gotten a lot better at that process now. I think we're very\n\n528\n00:27:43.600 --> 00:27:45.280\ncalculated about how we\n\n529\n00:27:45.280 --> 00:27:50.980\ngo about expanding. We're up to about 20 people in the firm now. And I think we\n\n530\n00:27:50.980 --> 00:27:52.080\n've grown it in a\n\n531\n00:27:52.080 --> 00:27:56.050\nvery methodical way. And again, I just think we're better at it now than we\n\n532\n00:27:56.050 --> 00:27:56.960\nwere before.\n\n533\n00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:01.150\nSo now your team is spread out all over the country. As I understand, you got\n\n534\n00:28:01.150 --> 00:28:01.840\noffices in\n\n535\n00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:10.320\nCharlotte, New York, LA, Palm Beach, Austin, Chicago, DC, Australia. How does\n\n536\n00:28:10.320 --> 00:28:11.280\nthat model give you a\n\n537\n00:28:11.280 --> 00:28:17.220\ncompetitive advantage? We really have a couple. We have a critical mass in\n\n538\n00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:18.880\nCharlotte, and we have\n\n539\n00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:25.060\nquite a few in New York, Poin, Chateverity, and is based in LA. But we have a\n\n540\n00:28:25.060 --> 00:28:26.320\nsalesperson in Austin.\n\n541\n00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:34.800\nA salesperson, Kevin Magner is in Chicago, Scott Lemons in DC. Stevie is down\n\n542\n00:28:34.800 --> 00:28:35.440\nin Florida.\n\n543\n00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:43.780\nBut I think having people in those respective markets is incredibly beneficial\n\n544\n00:28:43.780 --> 00:28:45.040\nto us. A lot of\n\n545\n00:28:45.040 --> 00:28:49.700\nour competitors don't do it that way. But I think living and being in the\n\n546\n00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:51.920\nmarket gives you a real\n\n547\n00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:56.130\ncompetitive edge. Again, I think it goes back to the relationships and being in\n\n548\n00:28:56.130 --> 00:28:57.120\nmarkets that you\n\n549\n00:28:57.120 --> 00:29:01.840\nare going to focus on and being able to be involved in the communities socially\n\n550\n00:29:01.840 --> 00:29:02.880\nfrom a\n\n551\n00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:08.250\nphilanthropic perspective. I think it really helps you a lot. How do you think\n\n552\n00:29:08.250 --> 00:29:08.960\nabout culture?\n\n553\n00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:13.440\nIs this something you spend a lot of time on, Frank, or is this just something\n\n554\n00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.000\nthat you guys\n\n555\n00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:20.000\njust take for granted? Tremendous. You can't take it for granted, and you got\n\n556\n00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:20.560\nto work on it\n\n557\n00:29:20.560 --> 00:29:29.680\nconstantly. I think a big part of our culture is, quite honestly, David, I've\n\n558\n00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:30.080\nlearned from\n\n559\n00:29:30.080 --> 00:29:38.160\nwhen I've read your first book talking about recognition and how I don't care\n\n560\n00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:38.640\nwhether it's\n\n561\n00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:44.350\na person that is running a deal team or it's a salesperson that's just made a\n\n562\n00:29:44.350 --> 00:29:45.920\nbig sale or it is\n\n563\n00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:52.010\na junior person that is learning how to do X. Just recognizing for that,\n\n564\n00:29:52.010 --> 00:29:53.520\nrecognizing them for that.\n\n565\n00:29:53.520 --> 00:29:58.080\nPeople love being recognized as you know better than anybody. I think that\n\n566\n00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:59.200\nneeds to be a part\n\n567\n00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:02.880\nof a sales culture. You want your highs to be high, but you know what you're\n\n568\n00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.160\nlow is to be so low.\n\n569\n00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:09.830\nAnd in our world, you get a lot of rejection. But as I tell everybody, when you\n\n570\n00:30:09.830 --> 00:30:10.640\nget told no,\n\n571\n00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.960\nyou're getting that much closer to a yes. No question about that. And your\n\n572\n00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:15.600\nbusiness now\n\n573\n00:30:15.600 --> 00:30:19.210\nis thriving, Frank. I mean, congratulations. You've got this business. It's\n\n574\n00:30:19.210 --> 00:30:20.640\nreally starting to take\n\n575\n00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:27.650\noff and you put the hard yards in. How do you go about prioritizing your time\n\n576\n00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:28.160\nand when you've got\n\n577\n00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:32.170\na thriving growth business? Well, you're kind of say all that. I still think we\n\n578\n00:30:32.170 --> 00:30:33.040\nhave a long way to go.\n\n579\n00:30:33.040 --> 00:30:39.600\nWe've definitely got some lofty goals out there that we want to hit. I think\n\n580\n00:30:39.600 --> 00:30:41.760\nthe time that I still\n\n581\n00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:47.120\nlove the I love the relationship with our GPs. I love the relationships that we\n\n582\n00:30:47.120 --> 00:30:48.080\nhave with our\n\n583\n00:30:48.080 --> 00:30:51.420\nlimited partners as well. You know, our world, the general partners manage the\n\n584\n00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:52.240\nmoney, the limited\n\n585\n00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.780\npartners are investing the money. We really have two clients. They're both a\n\n586\n00:30:56.780 --> 00:30:57.520\nclient of ours and\n\n587\n00:30:57.520 --> 00:31:02.630\nwe're in the middle. I love the interaction with both of those parties. And it\n\n588\n00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:04.880\n's, you know, I\n\n589\n00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:09.600\nstill spend a lot of my time on that. It's been obviously a big part of it, you\n\n590\n00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:10.400\nknow, kind of\n\n591\n00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:15.130\nmanaging the business with Stevie. It's a constant battle of what you're kind\n\n592\n00:31:15.130 --> 00:31:16.480\nof spending on those\n\n593\n00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:22.160\nbetween those two things. I love the sales side of it. I love interacting with\n\n594\n00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.760\npeople. I'd love to\n\n595\n00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:27.780\ncontinue doing that more. As we've continued to grow, you're having to spend\n\n596\n00:31:27.780 --> 00:31:28.320\nmore time,\n\n597\n00:31:28.320 --> 00:31:32.490\nyou know, going out there and finding and identifying potential partners in,\n\n598\n00:31:32.490 --> 00:31:32.640\nyou know,\n\n599\n00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.340\nin the private equity world and the private credit world. I love what we do. I\n\n600\n00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:37.040\nwake up every day\n\n601\n00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:41.940\nand I'm fired up to go get after it. And it's, I'm having as much fun now as I\n\n602\n00:31:41.940 --> 00:31:43.200\n've ever had,\n\n603\n00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:47.130\nif not more. We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Frank Edwards\n\n604\n00:31:47.130 --> 00:31:47.920\nin just a moment.\n\n605\n00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:53.480\nTalking with Frank, I'm reminded of my conversation with Chris Bevelockwa, the\n\n606\n00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:55.120\nCEO of Simple Bed.\n\n607\n00:31:55.120 --> 00:31:59.320\nHe points out that we tend to do business with people we like and trust. And\n\n608\n00:31:59.320 --> 00:31:59.680\nfor him,\n\n609\n00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:03.920\nthat's yet another reason to invest in genuine relationships.\n\n610\n00:32:04.560 --> 00:32:08.960\nYou know, you have to really work at a relationship, like invest in it. And\n\n611\n00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:10.640\nlike you have to look\n\n612\n00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:14.040\nsomebody in the eye and you have to listen to them and you have to care about\n\n613\n00:32:14.040 --> 00:32:15.200\nwhat they're saying.\n\n614\n00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.760\nAnd so, and maybe some of this is just my personality, but I can remember when\n\n615\n00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:21.680\nI was 23, 24 years old\n\n616\n00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:25.590\nand I had that job at NBC and I'm making $6 an hour, I can remember\n\n617\n00:32:25.590 --> 00:32:27.760\nintentionally sitting down\n\n618\n00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:31.560\nand getting to know people like, where are you from? What do you do? Like, what\n\n619\n00:32:31.560 --> 00:32:32.160\nmakes you tick?\n\n620\n00:32:32.800 --> 00:32:36.320\nYou know, investing in getting to know people and having a real relationship\n\n621\n00:32:36.320 --> 00:32:36.800\nwith them. And\n\n622\n00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:41.120\nyou know, that matters. Like, I always used to say to my friend, we were always\n\n623\n00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:41.600\ntalked about\n\n624\n00:32:41.600 --> 00:32:45.450\nwriting a book called The Last Three Feet. Like, people do business with people\n\n625\n00:32:45.450 --> 00:32:46.160\nthat they like\n\n626\n00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:50.120\nand they trust. It's not that complicated. And you sit across three feet from\n\n627\n00:32:50.120 --> 00:32:50.800\nsomeone and that's\n\n628\n00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:55.390\nhow deals get made and relationships get formed. And yeah, you know, you stay\n\n629\n00:32:55.390 --> 00:32:56.080\nin touch over the\n\n630\n00:32:56.080 --> 00:32:59.750\nyears with technology and with digital, but ultimately it's like about spending\n\n631\n00:32:59.750 --> 00:33:00.640\ntime in person.\n\n632\n00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:06.360\nGo back and listen to my entire conversation with Chris, episode 199 here on\n\n633\n00:33:06.360 --> 00:33:07.280\nHow Leaders Lead.\n\n634\n00:33:07.280 --> 00:33:11.690\nYou've obviously got a lot of unfinished business that you're going after. I\n\n635\n00:33:11.690 --> 00:33:12.560\nknow you're very focused\n\n636\n00:33:12.560 --> 00:33:17.790\non developing yourself as well. What do you do to sharpen your own acts? I\n\n637\n00:33:17.790 --> 00:33:18.960\nlisten to how leaders\n\n638\n00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:24.370\nlead every Thursday afternoon when it comes out. Part of being a leader is you\n\n639\n00:33:24.370 --> 00:33:25.280\nalways got to\n\n640\n00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:31.020\ncontinue to learn. As I get older, I learn how little I actually do know. I\n\n641\n00:33:31.020 --> 00:33:32.160\nthink continuing to\n\n642\n00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:37.240\nlearn and continuing to make yourself better is one of the most important\n\n643\n00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:38.720\nthings. And I think a\n\n644\n00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.940\nbig part of that is listening. I love being around other people and hearing\n\n645\n00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:44.080\ntheir perspective,\n\n646\n00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:48.960\nwhether it's on the economy, whether it's on the markets or whether it's\n\n647\n00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:50.560\npolitically. I just,\n\n648\n00:33:50.560 --> 00:33:55.360\nI love hearing other people's perspective. And I think if you're a really,\n\n649\n00:33:55.360 --> 00:33:56.880\nreally good listener\n\n650\n00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:02.060\nand then translate that into your own kind of philosophy, all of that input, I\n\n651\n00:34:02.060 --> 00:34:02.560\nthink it makes\n\n652\n00:34:02.560 --> 00:34:05.340\nyou sharper. I think it makes you better. What are you working on from a\n\n653\n00:34:05.340 --> 00:34:06.400\ntechnical perspective?\n\n654\n00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:10.400\nIs there a particular skill that you're trying to get better at that you think\n\n655\n00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.160\nyou got to get,\n\n656\n00:34:12.160 --> 00:34:15.520\nyou know, honed if you're going to really be the kind of leader you want to be?\n\n657\n00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:20.940\nUnderstanding your surroundings and learning from the people around you. And I\n\n658\n00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:21.840\nmean,\n\n659\n00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:29.720\nmy children are, I have three boys and they're all very different, but yet they\n\n660\n00:34:29.720 --> 00:34:30.480\n're all similar\n\n661\n00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.960\ntoo. And I think I learned something from them every time I'm with them. That's\n\n662\n00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:35.520\nmy favorite thing\n\n663\n00:34:35.520 --> 00:34:39.710\nto do is spend time with them. And I think I literally learned something, as I\n\n664\n00:34:39.710 --> 00:34:40.480\nsaid, from them\n\n665\n00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:47.200\nevery time I'm with them. You know, you are an active learner. You have some go\n\n666\n00:34:47.200 --> 00:34:47.920\n-to leaders\n\n667\n00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:51.400\nthat you go to for advice. I mean, do you have your own personal board of\n\n668\n00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:52.560\ndirectors in your own\n\n669\n00:34:52.560 --> 00:34:56.740\nmind that, hey, if you got a big, you mentioned Bobby Long a little earlier.\n\n670\n00:34:56.740 --> 00:34:57.520\nBobby has been\n\n671\n00:34:57.520 --> 00:35:07.120\nan amazing leader for me and mentor since the first time I met him. And David,\n\n672\n00:35:07.120 --> 00:35:08.800\nI met Bob. We\n\n673\n00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.890\nknew people in common, but I cold called Bobby out of the blue when I was at\n\n674\n00:35:12.890 --> 00:35:14.080\nOregon Stanley.\n\n675\n00:35:14.080 --> 00:35:18.240\nYou know, you're trying to find, you know, people to invest with you and bring\n\n676\n00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:19.280\nassets to the firm\n\n677\n00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:23.300\nand you're calling people and I'll never forget calling Bobby. And I told him I\n\n678\n00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:23.760\nwas going to be\n\n679\n00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:27.390\nin Greensboro like the following Wednesday, I didn't have any intention of\n\n680\n00:35:27.390 --> 00:35:28.240\nreally being in\n\n681\n00:35:28.240 --> 00:35:31.330\nGreensboro, but he said that he would meet with me. I'm like, really? You will?\n\n682\n00:35:31.330 --> 00:35:32.080\nOh, sure. Then I'm\n\n683\n00:35:32.080 --> 00:35:36.650\ngoing to be in Greensboro. So I went down and met with him. And he turned out\n\n684\n00:35:36.650 --> 00:35:38.160\nto be one of the\n\n685\n00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.960\nclosest friends in my life. And he's been a great, a great mentor to me ever\n\n686\n00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:44.720\nsince. But whenever I'm\n\n687\n00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:49.750\ngoing to, I'm trying to make a big decision, always talk to Bobby. My actual\n\n688\n00:35:49.750 --> 00:35:50.800\ngodfather is a\n\n689\n00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:54.220\ngentleman by the name of Tom Hughes. I've known my whole life. He was one of my\n\n690\n00:35:54.220 --> 00:35:55.120\ndad's best, best\n\n691\n00:35:55.120 --> 00:35:58.830\nfriends and they started a business together. I called American refuse systems\n\n692\n00:35:58.830 --> 00:35:59.680\nthat he, that he\n\n693\n00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:03.790\nended up selling to waste management. I talked to him probably once or twice a\n\n694\n00:36:03.790 --> 00:36:04.320\nweek and\n\n695\n00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:09.840\nhe has amazing perspective. He has just a tremendous amount of common sense\n\n696\n00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:17.120\nand great business sense. And also, Stevie's dad, Steve Lessing, big Steve, as\n\n697\n00:36:17.120 --> 00:36:17.840\nwe call him.\n\n698\n00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:22.000\nI think he's probably one of the greatest salespeople I've ever met. I think\n\n699\n00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:23.280\nhis perspective is\n\n700\n00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:29.460\nhe's given us tremendous advice of how to operate this business, how to treat\n\n701\n00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:30.640\nsalespeople, how to\n\n702\n00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:35.810\nrun an organization. And he's one of the greatest relationship people I've ever\n\n703\n00:36:35.810 --> 00:36:36.320\nmet.\n\n704\n00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:40.160\nOh, he, there's nobody that's ever met him that didn't love him. And he knows\n\n705\n00:36:40.160 --> 00:36:41.200\nhow to, he knows how\n\n706\n00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:45.320\nto make people feel so comfortable. You know, Frank, it's been so much fun. I\n\n707\n00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:45.680\nwant to have a\n\n708\n00:36:45.680 --> 00:36:48.670\nlittle bit more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this\n\n709\n00:36:48.670 --> 00:36:49.200\n? We got\n\n710\n00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:53.920\nready to go. Okay. The three words that best describe you. Family,\n\n711\n00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:59.810\ndedicated, loyal. If you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who\n\n712\n00:36:59.810 --> 00:37:00.160\nwould it be?\n\n713\n00:37:00.720 --> 00:37:05.030\nBobby Long, your biggest pet peeve people not doing what they say they're going\n\n714\n00:37:05.030 --> 00:37:05.520\nto do.\n\n715\n00:37:05.520 --> 00:37:09.540\nWho would play you in a movie? Chris O'Donnell, your son is one of the top\n\n716\n00:37:09.540 --> 00:37:10.800\namateur golfers\n\n717\n00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:16.880\nwho's currently on the team at the UNC. Can you still take him down? No, sir.\n\n718\n00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:18.240\nHe's not, he's not\n\n719\n00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:23.090\nat UNC yet. He's going to, he'll get there in August. But, but I have three\n\n720\n00:37:23.090 --> 00:37:23.760\nboys that play a\n\n721\n00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:28.260\nlot of golf and I can't beat any of them. So they're all good. That's my first\n\n722\n00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:28.480\nproblem.\n\n723\n00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:32.560\nI've played them. They're very good. One of the top three courses to play in\n\n724\n00:37:32.560 --> 00:37:33.360\nNorth Carolina.\n\n725\n00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:37.100\nQuill Hollow, Pinehurst number two, Charlotte Country Club. What's your\n\n726\n00:37:37.100 --> 00:37:38.000\nfavorite part about the\n\n727\n00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:43.730\nSouth? The people, the culture, the respect. The one thing you do just for you.\n\n728\n00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:44.560\nExercise.\n\n729\n00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:49.680\nYour most prized possession beside your family. Friends, my relationships. If I\n\n730\n00:37:49.680 --> 00:37:50.160\nturned on the\n\n731\n00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:54.400\nradio in your car, what would I hear? You'd hear 70s on 70. What's something\n\n732\n00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:55.440\nabout you a few people\n\n733\n00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.520\nwould know? I love to fly. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you\n\n734\n00:37:59.520 --> 00:38:00.080\nnever miss?\n\n735\n00:38:00.080 --> 00:38:05.720\nThe cold plunge in the morning. I'm thinking about getting one of those. I hear\n\n736\n00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:06.400\nit's pretty good.\n\n737\n00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:10.330\nWe're out of the light, you mean? Great job. Just a few more questions. We'll\n\n738\n00:38:10.330 --> 00:38:11.360\nwrap this up, dog.\n\n739\n00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:16.880\nWe just talked a little bit about your family. How do you take all of what\n\n740\n00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:23.420\nyou know about leading a business and apply that to home? It's about leading by\n\n741\n00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:24.080\nexample.\n\n742\n00:38:24.080 --> 00:38:31.200\nIt's listening. It's being understanding, providing a map for these little guys\n\n743\n00:38:31.200 --> 00:38:31.920\nthat will\n\n744\n00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:43.610\nallow them to develop into their own, have their own personality and be the\n\n745\n00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:44.640\nbest that they can be.\n\n746\n00:38:44.640 --> 00:38:48.340\nSo when you wake up now and you go to work, what's the thing that's got you\n\n747\n00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:49.040\nmost pumped up?\n\n748\n00:38:49.600 --> 00:38:54.960\nI'm always focused on what's our next opportunity? How do we continue to excel\n\n749\n00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:55.680\nin what we're doing\n\n750\n00:38:55.680 --> 00:39:02.270\nright now? And how can we do the very best job for both our GPs and our LPs?\n\n751\n00:39:02.270 --> 00:39:03.840\nWhat can I do to\n\n752\n00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:08.080\nput them all in the best light? When you think about your unfinished business\n\n753\n00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:08.720\nas a leader,\n\n754\n00:39:08.720 --> 00:39:14.380\nwhat would it be? David, I go back to my children. I want to always be there\n\n755\n00:39:14.380 --> 00:39:16.000\nfor them. I always\n\n756\n00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:22.280\nwant to be that listening source to them that can provide advice and hopefully\n\n757\n00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:22.640\nwhen they\n\n758\n00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:30.900\nhave the different dilemmas in life, whether it's in school with relationships,\n\n759\n00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:32.640\nwith their first job\n\n760\n00:39:32.640 --> 00:39:37.850\nor whatever it is, I want to be there for them and make sure that I support\n\n761\n00:39:37.850 --> 00:39:38.880\nthem in every way I\n\n762\n00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:44.570\npossibly can. And hopefully, I've had a similar experience and I can tell them\n\n763\n00:39:44.570 --> 00:39:45.200\nnot only what to\n\n764\n00:39:45.200 --> 00:39:49.220\ndo, but what not to do. I've had the good fortune of being with you, with your\n\n765\n00:39:49.220 --> 00:39:49.440\nkids.\n\n766\n00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:55.040\nAnd let me tell you something, Frank, when they look at you, they look at you\n\n767\n00:39:55.040 --> 00:39:56.160\nwith such admiration\n\n768\n00:39:56.160 --> 00:40:00.720\nand love. So you're doing a heck of a job on that. And there's probably nothing\n\n769\n00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:01.200\nthat's more\n\n770\n00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:04.960\nimportant than that. And you set the example on that. Last question.\n\n771\n00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:09.920\nBy the way, I don't mean to interrupt you, but you couldn't say anything to me\n\n772\n00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:11.680\nthat would mean\n\n773\n00:40:11.680 --> 00:40:18.050\nmore to me than that. I don't care. I don't care what does the success you have\n\n774\n00:40:18.050 --> 00:40:19.040\nor what accolades\n\n775\n00:40:19.040 --> 00:40:25.200\nyou have as a it doesn't matter. That is the most important thing in the world.\n\n776\n00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:31.150\nAbsolutely. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who\n\n777\n00:40:31.150 --> 00:40:31.680\nwants to be a\n\n778\n00:40:31.680 --> 00:40:37.040\nbetter leader? All good leaders have a vision and they have a short-term vision\n\n779\n00:40:37.040 --> 00:40:37.520\nand they have a\n\n780\n00:40:37.520 --> 00:40:42.420\nlong-term vision. And you've got to provide that roadmap for them, for the\n\n781\n00:40:42.420 --> 00:40:43.280\npeople that you have\n\n782\n00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:47.520\nsurrounded yourself by. You've got to lead by example and provide the\n\n783\n00:40:47.520 --> 00:40:50.880\ncomponents to give them\n\n784\n00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:56.800\nthe opportunity to go to that next level. To let those people continue to grow\n\n785\n00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:57.360\nand continue to\n\n786\n00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:02.970\nexpand within your organization, I think that you got to bring people along\n\n787\n00:41:02.970 --> 00:41:04.240\nwith you. And\n\n788\n00:41:04.240 --> 00:41:09.040\nwhen you're trying to make decisions, let them in on the whole process and let\n\n789\n00:41:09.040 --> 00:41:09.920\nthem be a part\n\n790\n00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:13.660\nof making the decision because when you actually make it and it's going to take\n\n791\n00:41:13.660 --> 00:41:14.560\neverybody in the\n\n792\n00:41:14.560 --> 00:41:20.560\nfirm to go and deliver on that message, if they are a part of that message\n\n793\n00:41:20.560 --> 00:41:21.840\nbeing created,\n\n794\n00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.440\nthen they're going to go in and fight like warriors. And I think that's a big\n\n795\n00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:25.920\npart of it.\n\n796\n00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:30.190\nBring people along with you and let them be a part of that decision-making\n\n797\n00:41:30.190 --> 00:41:30.960\nprocess.\n\n798\n00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.520\nFantastic, Frank. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on\n\n799\n00:41:35.520 --> 00:41:35.760\nthis\n\n800\n00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:39.760\nthis show. We've been talking about doing this for quite a while because I've\n\n801\n00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:40.480\nalways admired\n\n802\n00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:46.580\nyour leadership and how you are as a person. And you're the real deal and\n\n803\n00:41:46.580 --> 00:41:48.560\nappreciate you very much.\n\n804\n00:41:48.560 --> 00:41:53.310\nDavid, I can't thank you enough for having me. I'm right there with you. I've\n\n805\n00:41:53.310 --> 00:41:54.640\nadmired you for a\n\n806\n00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:59.360\nlong, long time. I've always admired you and how you carry yourself and what\n\n807\n00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:00.240\nyou represent\n\n808\n00:42:00.240 --> 00:42:03.520\nand what you stand for. And I really, really appreciate you having me.\n\n809\n00:42:03.520 --> 00:42:13.780\nI'm so glad you got to spend some time with Frank. It doesn't surprise me, but\n\n810\n00:42:13.780 --> 00:42:14.320\nI'm really\n\n811\n00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:18.670\nstruck by how many friends, colleagues, and partners Frank mentions in this\n\n812\n00:42:18.670 --> 00:42:19.520\nconversation.\n\n813\n00:42:19.520 --> 00:42:25.360\nAnd listen, that's not a tactic. That's just who he is. He's somebody who cares\n\n814\n00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:26.320\nabout the people he\n\n815\n00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:31.130\nworks with and is quick to recognize their role and his own success. He doesn't\n\n816\n00:42:31.130 --> 00:42:32.240\ntreat relationships\n\n817\n00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:37.360\nas a way to get ahead. For him, it's the point of it all. And that's exactly\n\n818\n00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:38.480\nwhy people trust him\n\n819\n00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:42.790\nand want to work with him and give him their business. Now, look, I bet you've\n\n820\n00:42:42.790 --> 00:42:43.520\ngot to Frank\n\n821\n00:42:43.520 --> 00:42:47.230\nin your own life, somebody who is great at building genuine relationships and\n\n822\n00:42:47.230 --> 00:42:48.000\npartnerships.\n\n823\n00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:53.120\nGot him in mind? All right. Now, take a moment and think about how they\n\n824\n00:42:53.120 --> 00:42:54.480\ninteract with you and\n\n825\n00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:59.750\nwhat they specifically do to create that connection. Learn from their example\n\n826\n00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:01.520\nin your own life and then\n\n827\n00:43:01.520 --> 00:43:06.880\ntry to apply some of those ideas for yourself. That kind of intention sticks\n\n828\n00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:07.760\nwith people and\n\n829\n00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:12.420\nit speaks louder than anything else. So do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n830\n00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:12.880\nWhat we learned\n\n831\n00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:18.250\ntoday is that great leaders know that relationships are earned, not assumed.\n\n832\n00:43:18.250 --> 00:43:19.200\nComing up next on how\n\n833\n00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:24.940\nleaders lead is Ed Bastian, CEO of Delta Airlines. The accolades are nice, but\n\n834\n00:43:24.940 --> 00:43:25.920\ntotally irrelevant.\n\n835\n00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:29.920\nIt's really what you do today and tomorrow. That matters. And you got to go out\n\n836\n00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:30.720\nand prove it and\n\n837\n00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:35.050\ndo it better every single day. So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever\n\n838\n00:43:35.050 --> 00:43:35.680\nyou get your\n\n839\n00:43:35.680 --> 00:43:40.130\npodcast so you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of\n\n840\n00:43:40.130 --> 00:43:41.280\nhow leaders lead\n\n841\n00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:45.410\nwhere every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very\n\n842\n00:43:45.410 --> 00:43:46.400\nbest leaders in the\n\n843\n00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.410\nworld. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you\n\n844\n00:43:50.410 --> 00:43:51.440\ncan apply to your\n\n845\n00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:55.120\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n","

Frank Edwards 0:00

My whole world, I feel like is built on relationships, and I think your your reputation is the most important thing you have in the world. Let's protect that every single day.

David Novak 0:20

Welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the best leaders in the world to help you become the very best leader that you can be. My guest today is Frank Edwards. He is the managing partner of aqueduct Capital Group, a firm that helps investment managers raise the capital they need to grow. You know, people say that success comes down to who you know. But after this episode, you'll see it's not just who you know, it's how you treat those that you know. And if you want success for the long haul, you can't take your relationships for granted. It takes effort. You've got to value and respect and recognize people you work with. That's how you create long, lasting partnerships and a reputation you can be proud of. And let me tell you, I've known Frank for a long time, and nobody models it better. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours. Frank Edwards,

you know, you got a nickname D dog. You got to tell me, where in the hell did you get the name D dog from?

Frank Edwards 1:31

David? I've had it my whole life. I grew up in the eastern part of North Carolina, in a very, very small town called Roanoke rapids. And people in the eastern part of the state are very lazy in their speech. And rather than saying this, that them and those they'll say this that demondos and my sisters were 16 and 13 when I was born, and one of them looked through the window at me and said, Oh my God, He looks just like a hot dog. And somebody said, the dog, and it got to be d dog, and it's been that way my whole life. My mother, my mother called me that.

David Novak 2:06

Well, you're one of the world's great guys, and you got a great, well deserved nickname, and everybody calls you. Everybody loves you, you know. And you and I go way back. So this is going to be a lot of fun for for me. And, you know, I know firsthand that you're, you're a hell of a leader and a tremendous relationship builder. But before we get into all of that, you know, let's start at the beginning. What's a story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you are today? It

Frank Edwards 2:36

was probably like my first kind of entrepreneurial experience. I was at the University of North Carolina. I was playing golf. I was at the training table one night, and some somebody came along and said, Hey, there's this presentation for the southwestern Company, which was a company in Nashville, Tennessee that sold, people know it if they sold books and Bibles and all that kind of stuff. And they had a program through the NCAA that you sold, you learn how to sell fire extinguishers, and you go to a five day training school out in Nashville, and then they set you on your way, and you go knock on doors, and you sell fire extinguishers. And I I probably learned more about myself and how to sell in in that first summer, I ended up doing it for three summers, but that I learned more that first summer about how to sell and rejection than and it kind of shaped me for the rest of my, rest of my career.

David Novak 3:30

Yeah, I love that. You know, early on in my career, I sold encyclopedias and pots and pans, so I could relate to that. So tell us a story about, you know when you got rejected, and how you handle it when you were knocking on those doors.

Frank Edwards 3:43

David, I've got way too many stories here. I But I got rejected a whole lot. And the way they taught you to do it was you went in, and this was all around Halon, 1211, and 1301. Same, same thing they used in the space shuttle, and they use an aircraft today, and you would go in and you'd build like a little, you were trying to simulate a grease fire, and it was a little pan that they gave you, and you put it out. And I mean, I had more mistakes where I'd catch something else on fire and in the house, and I'd have to put it out. And I had people, I'd go through my whole sales pitch, and they'd say, I really don't need any fire extinguishers. And you got to, you just got to deal with all kinds of different people and personalities, and you just learn a ton. And it was, it was fabulous for me. That's

David Novak 4:30

great. And see so you go to University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. You're, you're, you're in the South. You know, did do any of that southern hospitality stuff that you have growing up? Is that something that you carried over into your leadership style? For

Frank Edwards 4:43

sure, I'd say I really learned that from my parents early on. My mother was and but and my dad were extremely focused on manners. It was yes, ma'am and no ma'am and yes sir and No, sir. A lady gets up from the table, you stand up, you pull out her chair for. My mother was a stickler about that kind of stuff. It certainly helped shape me, and have tried to try to pass that along to to our children, you know, as well. You

David Novak 5:09

know, you grow up in the South and and end up going to New York, New York, and you're in the this, you know, cutthroat world of of of investment banking, you know, what took you there, Frank, I mean, how'd you How did you get to New York? What? What got you into investment banking?

Unknown Speaker 5:26

Frank Edwards 5:28

I had a very close family friend that almost like a, you know, a godfather kind of figure to me that was really close friends with my mom. His name was Billy Armfield. He was the one that got me to go to to Woodbury to begin with, he convinced me to go to North Carolina, and then one day, I was playing golf with him in Greensboro, and he said, you really ought to think about, you know, trying to do a summer internship in New York. And I called him uncle whitey. I thought, well, I don't know anybody. I've been in New York once in my life. The very next day I am in I was in the undergraduate business program at Chapel Hill, and my finance professor, who I'd played a lot of golf with, he'd been at Chemical Bank for 33 years. He'd retired to the governor's club there in Chapel Hill, he said the exact same thing to me. I mean, like, within a 24 hour period, you ought to think about going to New York. And I'm like, I don't know anything about New York. I don't know the first person to reach out to, or anything. Anyway, both these gentlemen gave me some direction and gave me some people to reach out to, which I did. I ended up going up and interviewing, and I was fortunate enough to get a spot for the summer at Morgan Stanley. I worked in their high net worth group. And I mean, David, I didn't know the difference between a stock and a bond. I mean, I was, I was a sponge trying to learn as much as I could. And I basically walked around with a yellow legal pad all summer, and I wrote down every question that I didn't know the answer to, which was a lot. And I had a few people that really stepped up for me and would answer all those questions for me at the end of the day, and it was, it was just a tremendous experience. So

David Novak 7:04

you spend 11 years at Morgan Stanley, a fantastic firm, and you were leading one of the largest private client teams. What'd you do? Frank, that as a leader that really differentiated yourself, and when you you look back, and I know you're a humble guy, but you know, if you had to, you know, brag on yourself a little bit. I mean, what was it that you had that that helped you climb up and that kind of, you know, rough and tumble world where you're dealing with a lot

Frank Edwards 7:30

of smart people? Well, I definitely wasn't the smartest. I think that was probably one of the biggest things about Morgan Stanley, is that you felt like you always, always had the best of the best on the other end of the phone, and you were always learning. You felt like you were learning, certainly from a product and service perspective. You were learning from the best. And that gave you the confidence to go out there and and put that in front of other people. I think it's a big part of that is, is listening and trying to understand what somebody needs and how you can best provide for or service that client. And so I always try to do a whole lot of listening, but also think it's about, you know, you got to build a team internally, and you got to establish yourself and build respect internally to be able to get things done in a firm like that. And it was as much about building relationships internally as it was externally.

David Novak 8:25

You know, Frank, I've heard you say that, you know, and I'll quote you here, you I've heard you say, all we have in this world is our reputation. And you wake up every day defending it. Say, more,

Frank Edwards 8:38

my whole world, I feel like is built on relationships, and I think your reputation is the most important thing you have in the world. And I do wake up and think about how, you know, let's protect that every single day. And I talk to everybody in our firm about that, that you know, when it comes to writing an email, when it comes to sending a text, when it comes to talking to somebody on the phone, don't say or put in print or do anything that you don't want to be on the cover of The Wall Street Journal. I just think that's really important in in the way you relate to people and how you continue to build these relationships.

David Novak 9:16

You know, tell, tell me a story, if you have one where, where you felt like, you know, your reputation might have been at risk. I mean, where you really were kind of putting the pickle it when you thought about, you know, the options that you have. Do you have any like that? I

Frank Edwards 9:33

do where I've been, I've been challenged by a situation and had to have legal counsel get involved. And the biggest thing that that bothered me about the whole thing was, you know, my integrity was questioned, and had to spend about seven or eight months going through a legal process defending that it wasn't the money, it wasn't the the time, it was just the fact that somebody was. Questioning that. It really, really bothered me.

David Novak 10:01

How did you get yourself up during that period? I mean, because here you are, the thing that matters most to you is being attacked. You got to get the lawyers. You're not focused on your clients at that time. You know when you're in with them, you're just trying to protect yourself and the you know who you are. What did you do to get yourself up off the floor, and, you know, stay positive, because you're a hell of a positive guy. You

Frank Edwards 10:24

got to have a really, really strong, I think, in order to be a great leader and to lead people, you've got to have a tremendous life partner. And I am incredibly fortunate that I am married to my best friend in the world, and she understands me so well, and can read me without I don't even have to open my mouth, and she can tell me, you know, how I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. And we've been married for 25 years. We've been together 31 years, and throughout that process, she was an incredible supporter and a great motivator. I give her a tremendous amount of credit all the hard stuff that I've been through in business or just in life, she's been an amazing partner. That's

David Novak 11:10

fantastic. And you know, I know you walk the talk on that, because you've talked about her many times, and that's great that you share that you know, you know, you are so intentional about building relationships and serving your clients, you know, give us, you know, two or three bits of advice you'd have to leaders who, who do want, want to do the exact same thing. You

Frank Edwards 11:33

know, David, I think you have to be really passionate about what you do. You got to wake up and, I mean, you got to you got to surround yourself by very competent people and that have a similar goal. And you've got to think about how you're going to inspire them to go out and fight the fight every single day. You got to give them the tools to be able to do that, and and you got it, and you got to support them. And again, going back to what you're asking me about Morgan Stanley, I think you know having really strong relationships internally is as important as externally. And you want to give everybody that that goes out there and battles with you on a daily basis. You want to give them that support but but you also want to give them the confidence to go out and project and so and again, protect that reputation of the firm and continue to build it. You want. You want all those people that work with you, and there's nobody in the world better at this than you, from a recognition standpoint, and recognizing people and wanting them to go to battle with you on a daily basis and and be in the ditch with you when things aren't the best, that's what it's all about. And when things are good, that's it's even that much better.

Koula Callahan 12:49

Hey, everyone, it's cool from how leaders lead. And we have a brand new playlist available in the how leaders lead app, and I want to tell you about it. It's all about how you can fuel yourself up to show up in the very best way as a leader. The Playlist is called Wellness in the workplace, and it'll inspire you to do the things that you need to do on a daily basis, so that you show up mentally sharp, physically sharp and emotionally sharp, and so that you can lead your people in the way that they deserve to be led. Grab access to the playlist. You can either click this link or download the how leaders lead app, tap playlists and listen to the wellness in the workplace playlist, you can literally just listen to it like you would a Spotify playlist, tapping the first track and then letting it play all the way through. I hope this playlist will inspire you to do those things that you know fuel yourself and fill your cup so that you can show up in the very best way for your people get access to this playlist today.

David Novak 13:45

Well, Frank, you, you had an impressive career at Morgan Stanley, but in 2001 it took a huge leap, you know, you left after 11 years to start your own firm. Walk me through that decision and and what gave you the you mentioned, confidence? What gave you the confidence to step out there and jump into that Briar Patch?

Frank Edwards 14:07

I mean, knowing what I know now I question myself as well. But at the time, Morgan Stanley had merged with Dean Witter just in the late 90s, and being in that high net worth group. That was a very tough merger. You know, we were about 250 people worldwide within that group, within the firm, and all of a sudden we were merged with Dean Witter, and they had 11,000 brokers that it was a very different culture. And I just thought it was going to be now, it's turned out to be a great situation for Morgan Stanley. If you fast forward to today with what they've you know, the way they've built that business. However, at the time, I thought that that was going to be a pretty tough road, and had an idea that with my partner from Morgan Stanley, Chris Clark, another guy named John Duryea, who had come from Goldman Sachs. We were going out to start a long, short equity hedge fund focused on consumer related areas, and my role was putting together and raising the capital for it. We had a discretionary money management business within our group at Morgan Stanley, obviously had some conversations with those clients about supporting us that in that endeavor. And so we left Morgan Stanley the first week of July, 2001 and we were planning to start October 1. This little event called 911 happened in the middle, and we started with about 10% of the capital that we had originally planned. I can only tell you that I laid in bed and didn't get a whole lot of sleep, staring at the ceiling, thinking, Okay, I've just walked away from being a Morgan Stanley for, you know, almost 11 years, and I have have a child and married, and here I am with a business that is not, do not, not in a position that we thought it was going to be. So what do you do, Frank? You put your head down, and you work hard and you try to figure it out. And again, you got to have that support system around you. As I mentioned, Catherine before, she was just an amazing partner throughout that whole process. Never put any pressure on me to do anything. We were living in New York at the time, we made the decision that we were going to move to Charlotte, where we were going to put some, you know, put roots down as a family. And I told her I would go anywhere as long as it had a good airport. And that's what we did. And so, you know, I had a lot of conversations, but I had one incredibly close friend that's been an unbelievable mentor to me, that you know him very well. His name is Bobby long and we had, I'll sit I'll never forget. I was sitting in my office in New York, and he called me on the phone. He said, You don't, you don't sound exactly right. Long story short, he said, Why don't you, why don't you fly down here and have dinner with me tonight? And I did. I left and I went to I went to Wilmington and spent the night with him. I had dinner, and he said, Tell me what you're thinking. And those conversations continued. And finally, a few months later, you know, one of the ideas I had was, you know, obviously I'd gone out to represent one fund and raise capital for that one fund. And the idea was, you know, let's go put together a platform that I could represent multiple managers simultaneously, rather than just one. Bobby was an incredible support system, if you will. Not to mention my original capital to get started. We ended up starting that platform in November of 2003

David Novak 17:35

and then you know what led you to move from that and found aqueduct in 2006 we

Frank Edwards 17:42

started it as alpha link partners. The idea was finding managers that create alpha and putting them together with investors. In January of 2006 we were fortunate enough to do a partnership with a group in New York called reservoir capital. It was Dan stern and Craig Huff. Dan and Craig had started the Ziff family office, and then they'd started reservoir. They were absolutely amazing, amazing partners, and they wanted a name of the firm that a little more closely aligned with with their name reservoir, and that's where we came up with aqueduct. What

David Novak 18:15

was the breakthrough idea for this business? Why'd you think you could make this one go it was the

Frank Edwards 18:20

same strategy, same business model. Was Alpha link. But what we did, when we when we did the partnership with with reservoir, we basically had stopped. We didn't focus really on the hedge fund side of the business anymore. It was mainly more in the private equity and private credit arena. Reservoir had had such an amazing record. They'd been had such a great eye for talent, in not only seating managers, but investing in managers. And really, we really wanted to tap into that resource, which is what we did. I mean, they had, they had seated Danny och at ox if sab Anchorage. I mean, they just had an amazing, amazing eye for talent. And they really gave us tremendous credibility in the marketplace. And that was a tremendous breakthrough for us. That was in January of

David Novak 19:07

2006 and in your business, the manager is key, right? So

Frank Edwards 19:10

basically, we're looking, we're going out there and trying to find managers that have a repeatable model and a and can can deliver year after year, and with consistency and a and a team. And that's that's obviously hard to find, but yet, we want to go identify those managers that we can partner with, put our name alongside them, and go out and raise their capital form. And typically, that's been, you know, doing fund two, fund three, fund four. You know, we're doing a fund 11 right now, but it's typically in managers that have a specialty in one area or another. You know, we're going to go out and raise that capital form. We're going to, you know, insurance companies, Ras pension plans, both corporate and state, multi family office platforms. Family Offices. You know, we're really, typically in the, usually trying to raise somewhere in the, you know, 250 to, you know, $900 million per manager.

David Novak 20:09

You're now known for having that incredible eye for talent. I mean, you're, you're known in the industry for a guy who can, who can pick those managers, you know, what? What are the, what are the big traits you look for, and the process you use to really figure out if they're right to link up

Frank Edwards 20:27

to. I have, I feel like I have a good eye for people's character and and how they're going to be as people. But I have, I have a wonderful partner in a gentleman by the name of one chat of Verdi that runs our whole, all of our sourcing and due diligence team. He's supported by several other Mike rivers internally and several people on their team that that do that for us. When they need our input, they bring us in. And then, you know when, when, when? Juan boils down that that list, he he's seeing 300 managers a year, and he boils that down to a list of probably 25 to 30. And, you know, and when he gets it down to kind of 15 to 20, we all get involved in fine to see what is the right strategy and the right personality fit. Because we really look at this as a marriage with these managers. You know, these are typically 10 year partnerships. You know, you you spend an awful lot of time with these, with these GP, these general partners, not to mention you're usually investing your own capital with them as well. Frank,

David Novak 21:27

I like, I don't think I'm, you know, doing anything that isn't, you know, wide open, and I don't think it's confidential, but I want to kind of just kind of walk through an example of how you how you cultivate a business and and grow it? Okay? First of all, starting out with young brands. Okay, you know young brands, I get a call from you, and what do you say to me? Well,

Frank Edwards 21:54

is it okay for me to talk about a live situation or a real situation? Yeah, absolutely, that's what I want. Okay, we partnered with a group about three years ago called monarch that's based down in Atlanta. Incredibly, what they do, they are basically dealing in the Tax Equity arena. What that translates to is, is you're going out to identify, really, fortune, 100 and fortune, 500 companies that have a significant tax liability, federal tax liability, and what monarch does through low income housing and solar and things like that, they are helping them with that liability. You know, you're really doing a tremendous service, you know, to these companies. Because this is a, this is a new thing out there, and it's monarchs been amazing partners. But I reached out to you. I knew you weren't, obviously running young, but I know you're very, still heavily, you know, still very much involved. And typically, I just look for a way to get to the either the the person that the is leading tax, or is the CFO in the in the company, and I just have an initial conversation with them to to walk them through what we're doing, and trying to educate them and see if there might be a fit there.

David Novak 23:12

Yeah, I remember you saying, Hey, David, you know if you could just kind of open up the door for me with somebody you know, not asking for anything else there. Just Just, just open up the open up the door. So you get in the door, you make the sale, right?

Frank Edwards 23:26

We try to close all the time. Yeah,

David Novak 23:28

okay, so you'd make this up now here, here's another thing that I thought was very instructional. Once you made that sale, you got back to me, you came back to me and, and, you know, talk about that process, because I'm sure I'm not the only guy you've ever done that, you know, I was a guy that opened up a door for you. Was not involved at all, okay, and in the sale or anything else. It's all

Frank Edwards 23:52

about the relationship. For you, were kind enough to put to vouch for me. You put your neck out on the line for me. That is, I wouldn't have had a warm call at yum by any means, had it not been for you reaching out and vouching for me. And therefore, I want you to know exactly how that process takes place. I want you to know if it ends in a great way or not a good way, or I want you to know the result. I want to close the loop there and keep you up on the process, because I want you to know how much I appreciate you doing that for me. And again, that's all part of that relationship that was

David Novak 24:32

very impressive, because it's something that you kind of take for granted. Frank, but I don't think I've ever had anybody do that. You know, you know, with with Bemo opening up a door from the outside or whatever, like that, you know. And I wasn't expecting it, but it came out of the blue. But if I ever had a chance to vouch for you and your business and your ability to impact a client, you know, I would certainly do it. So I thought that was really instructional. So well, you're kind. I appreciate that. So you go out and. And you obviously, you have your current clients, and then you try to bring on new ones. You know, when you think about your business, do you see your model being more taking your existing clients and growing them? Or are you or how much does getting new business and new clients really drive your business? We're

Frank Edwards 25:18

always looking for new clients. However, we have also found that we've we've grown more by doing more with our current clients. We've been very fortunate. Over the last couple years, built a great following down in Australia. You know my business partner, Steve Lessing, really well. He has done just an unbelievable job in building out Australia for us. And again, that's a very, very relationship focused place, and Stevie's really put in the time, and spent a lot of time down there over the last, you know, call it eight or nine years, and it we didn't do any business in Australia for about four years, but we kept fighting the fight, and we knew it would eventually come. And it's turned out to be a really, very significant part of our business today. And again, it's extremely relationship oriented, and it's been great for us. A

David Novak 26:15

lot of entrepreneurs like yourself, you start your business, you know, you start achieving success, and then you really try to scale it and grow like crazy. You know, has there ever been a time, you know, frankly, where you felt like you were getting ahead of your skis and and then, you know, how did you work your way through that?

Frank Edwards 26:37

I've definitely had periods where I had ideas that I thought would give us more scale, and it's really David, it's really boiled down to the people. You got to bring the right people on as partners internally, and you got to partner for us. You got to partner with the right people externally. There have been situations where we have, we've we've hired, I've hired the wrong people, and it hasn't worked out well. And that's a tough thing to unwind in our arena, because you really, when you bring somebody on it, it takes at least 12 to 18 months for somebody to really get up to speed, kind of get their feet under them and start producing if it's not working. You know, you're, you're 18 to 24 months into this thing, and it's, it's tough to unwind, and I've certainly made list. I've made a ton of mistakes. You know, look out. You learn a whole lot more from your mistakes than you do your your wins. And I think we've gotten a lot better at that process now. I think we're very calculated about how we how we go about expanding. You know, we're up to, we're up to about 20 people in the firm now, and I think we've, we've grown it in a very methodical way. And again, I just think we're better at it now than we were before. So

David Novak 27:56

now your team is spread out all over the country, as I understand, you got offices in Charlotte, New York, LA, Palm Beach, Austin, Chicago, DC, Australia, you know, how does that model give you a competitive advantage? We

Frank Edwards 28:12

really have a couple like we have. We have a critical mass in Charlotte, and we have quite a few in New York, Pawan chatter Verdi and is based in LA but we have, we have a salesperson in Austin, a sales, you know, Kevin Magner is in Chicago, Scott Lamont in DC. Stevie is is down, down in Florida, so, but I think having people in those respective markets is incredibly beneficial to us. A lot of our competitors don't do it that way. But I think living and being in the market gives you a real competitive edge again. I think it goes back to the relationships and being in markets that you are going to focus on and be being able to be involved in the communities, socially, from a philanthropic perspective, I think it's it, it, it really helps you a lot.

David Novak 29:07

How do you think about culture? Is this something you spend a lot of time on, Frank, or is this just something that you guys just take for granted? Tremendous.

Frank Edwards 29:15

You can't take it for granted. And you got and you got to work on it constantly. I think, you know, a big part of of of our culture is, quite honestly, David, I've learned from when I've read your first book talking about recognition and how you I don't care whether it's you know, a person that is, you know, running a deal team, or it's a salesperson that's just made a big sale. Or it is, you know, a junior person that is learning how to do, you know, X, you know, just recognizing for that, recognizing them for that. People love being recognized as you know, better than anybody. And I think that's that needs to be a part of a. Sales culture. You want your highs to be high, but you don't want your lows to be so low. And in our world, you get a lot of rejection. But as I tell everybody, when you get told no, you're getting that much closer to a yes, no question

David Novak 30:13

about that. And your business now is thriving. Frank, I mean, congratulations, you've got this business. It's really starting to take off and you put the hard yards in. How do you how do you go about prioritizing your time, and when you got a thriving growth business? Well, you're

Frank Edwards 30:30

kind to say all that, I still think we have a long way to go. I we've we definitely got some lofty goals out there that we want to, that we want to hit. I think, you know, the time that I still love the I love the relationship with our GPS. I love the relationships that we have with our with our limited partners as well. You know our world, the general partners manage the money. The limited partners are investing the money they we really have two clients. They're they're both a client of ours, and we're in the middle. I love the interaction with both, both of those parties. And it's, you know, I spent, still spend, a lot of my time on that spend, obviously, a big part of it, you know, kind of managing the business with Stevie. It's a constant battle of what you're kind of spending on, on those two between those two things. I love the sales side of it. I love interacting with people. I'd love to continue doing that more, where as we've continued to grow, you're having to spend more time, you know, going out there and finding and identifying potential partners in, you know, in the private equity world, in the private credit world, I love what we do. I wake up every day and I'm, I'm fired up to go get after it, and it's, I'm having as much fun now as I've as I've ever had, if not more, we'll

David Novak 31:44

be back with the rest of my conversation with Frank Edwards in just a moment. Talking with Frank, I'm reminded of my conversation with Chris Bevilacqua, the CEO of simple bet. He points out that we tend to do business with people we like and trust, and for him, that's yet another reason to invest in genuine relationships. You

Chris Bevilacqua 32:04

know, you have to really work at a relationship, like, invest in it, and like, you have to look somebody in the eye, and you have to listen to them, and you have to care about what they're saying, and so, and maybe some of this is just my personality, but I can remember when I was 2324 years old, and I had that job at NBC, and I'm making $6 an hour. I can remember intentionally sitting down and getting to know people. Like, where are you from? What do you do? Like, what makes you tick? You know, investing in getting to know people and having a real relationship with them. And you know that matters. Like I always used to say to my friend, we always talked about writing a book called The last three feet. Like people do business with people that they like and they trust. It's not that complicated. And you sit across three feet from someone, and that's how deals get made and relationships get formed. And yeah, you know, you stay in touch over the years with technology and with digital but ultimately it's like about spending time in person,

David Novak 33:00

go back and listen to my entire conversation with Chris, episode 199 here on how leaders lead. You've obviously got a lot of unfinished business that you're going after. I know you're very focused on developing yourself as well. What do you do to sharpen your own ax?

Frank Edwards 33:17

I listen to how leaders lead of every Thursday afternoon when it comes out, part of being a leader is you always got to continue to learn. As I get older, I learn how little I actually do know. I think continuing to learn and continuing to make yourself better is is the one of the most important things, and I think a big part of that is, is listening. I love being around other people and hearing their perspective, whether it's whether it's on the economy, whether it's on the markets, or whether it's political. I just I love hearing other people's perspective. And I think if you're really, really good listener, and then translate that into your own kind of philosophy, all of that input, I think it makes you sharper. I think it makes you better. What are you working

David Novak 34:04

on? From a technical perspective, is there a particular skill that you're trying to get better at that you think you got to, got to get, you know, honed if you're going to really be the kind of leader you want to be, understanding

Frank Edwards 34:15

your surroundings and and learning from the people around you. And I mean, you know, my children are, I have three boys, and you know, they're all, they're all, they're all very different, but yet they're all similar to and I think I learned something from them every time I'm with them. That's my favorite thing to do, is spend time with them. And I think I literally learned something, as I said, from them every time I'm with them. You

David Novak 34:41

know you are an active learner. You know you have some go to leaders that you go to for advice. I mean, do you have your own personal board of directors in your own mind that, hey, if you got a big you mentioned Bobby long a little earlier. Bobby

Frank Edwards 34:56

has been an amazing. A leader for me and mentor since the first time I met him and David, I met Bob. We knew people in common, but I cold called Bobby out of the blue when I was at Morgan Stanley. You know you're you're trying to find, you know, people to invest with you and bring assets to the firm. And you're calling people, and I'll never forget calling Bobby, and I told him I was going to be in Greensboro, like the following Wednesday. Had didn't have any intention of really being in Greensboro, but he said that he would meet with me. I'm like, Really, you will Oh, sure, then I'm going to be in Greensboro. So I went down and met with him, and he turned out to be one of the closest friends of my life, and has been a great, a great mentor to me ever since. But whenever I'm gonna I'm trying to make a big decision, always talk to Bobby. My actual Godfather is a gentleman by the name of Tom Hughes I've known my whole life. He was one of my dad's best, best friends, and they started a business together called American refuse systems that he that he ended up selling to waste management. I talked to him probably once or twice a week, and he has amazing perspective. He has just a tremendous amount of common sense and great business sense and and also Stevie's dad, Steve Lessing, big Steve, as we call him, you know, I think he's probably one of the greatest sales people I've ever met. I think his perspective is, is he's given us tremendous advice of how to, how to operate this business, how to treat salespeople, how to run an organization, and he's one of the greatest relationship people I've ever met. He

David Novak 36:36

there's nobody that's ever met him that didn't love him, and he knows how to he knows how to make people feel so comfortable. You know, Frank, it's been so much fun. I want to have a little bit more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? We got ready to go. Okay, the three words that best describe you, family,

Frank Edwards 36:52

uh, dedicated, loyal. If you could be one person for a day besides yourself? Who would it be? Bobby long your biggest pet peeve people not doing what they say they're gonna do. Who would play you in a movie? Chris O'Donnell,

David Novak 37:08

your son is one of the top amateur golfers who's currently on the team at UNC. Can you still take him down? No, sir.

Frank Edwards 37:16

He's not. He's not at UNC yet. He's gonna. He'll get there in August. But I have three boys that play a lot of golf, and I can't beat any of them, so they're always my first problem

David Novak 37:28

I've played. They're very good, one of the top three courses to play in North Carolina, quail, hollow, Pinehurst, number two, Charlotte Country Club. What's your favorite part about the South the people, the culture, the respect, the one thing you do, just for you exercise your most prized possession, besides your family, friends, my relationships. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? You'd hear 70s on 70 What's something about you? Few people would know I love to fly. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss,

Frank Edwards 37:59

the cold plunge in the morning.

David Novak 38:03

I'm thinking about getting one of those. I hear it's pretty good. All right, we're out of the light around. Great job. Just a few more questions. We'll wrap this up. Dog, we just talked a little bit about your family. You know? How do you take all of what you know about leading a business and apply that to home.

Frank Edwards 38:22

It's about leading by example. It's listening. It's being understanding, providing a map for these little guys that will allow them to develop into their own, you know, their have their own kind of own personality and and and be the best that they can be. So when you

David Novak 38:45

wake up now and you go to work, what's the thing that's got you most pumped up? I'm

Frank Edwards 38:49

always focused on what's our next opportunity? How do we continue to excel in what we're doing right now? And how can we do the very best job for both our GPS and our LPs. What can I do to put them all in the best light

David Novak 39:05

when you think about your unfinished business as a leader, what would it be? David, I

Frank Edwards 39:10

go back to my children. I want to always be there for them. I always want to be that, that listening source to them, that can provide advice. And hopefully, you know, when they have the different dilemmas in life, whether it's in school, with relationships, with their first job, or whatever it is, I just I want to be there for them and make sure that I support them in every way I possibly can. And hopefully I've had a I've had a similar experience, and I can tell them not only what to do, but what not to do. I've

David Novak 39:46

had the good fortune of being with you, with your kids, and let me tell you something Frank. When they look at you, they look at you with such admiration and love. So you're doing a heck of a job on that. And you know, there's probably. I nothing that's more important than that. And you set the example on that last question you,

Frank Edwards 40:05

by the way, I don't mean to interrupt you, but you couldn't say anything to me that would mean more to me than that. I don't care. I don't care what business success you have or what accolades you have as a it doesn't matter. That is the most important thing in the world.

David Novak 40:25

Absolutely last question, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

Frank Edwards 40:32

All good leaders have a vision, and they have a they have a short term vision, and they have a long term vision, and you've got to provide that road map for them, for the people that you have surrounded yourself by, you've got to lead by example and provide the components for for to give, give them the opportunity to go to that next level, to let those people continue to grow and continue to expand within your within your organization. I think that you got to bring people along with you. And when you're trying to make make decisions, let them in on the whole process, and let them be a part of making the decision. Because when you actually make it, and it's going to take everybody in the firm to go and deliver on that message, if they are a part of be of that message being created, then they're they're going to go in and fight like warriors, and I think that's a big part of it. Bring bring people along with you, and let them be a part of that decision making process.

David Novak 41:30

Fantastic, Frank, and I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on this, this show, and we've been talking about doing this for quite a while, because I've always admired your leadership and how you are as a person, and you're the real deal. And appreciate you very much.

Frank Edwards 41:48

David, I can't thank you enough for having me. I'm right there with you. I've admired you for a long, long time. I've always admired you and how you carry yourself and what you represent and what you stand for, and I really, really appreciate you having me.

David Novak 42:09

I'm so glad you got to spend some time with Frank. It doesn't surprise me, but I'm really struck by how many friends, colleagues and partners Frank mentions in this conversation. And listen, that's not a tactic. That's just who he is. He's somebody who cares about the people he works with and is quick to recognize their role in his own success. He doesn't treat relationships as a way to get ahead for him, it's the point of it all, and that's exactly why people trust him and want to work with him and give him their business. Now, look, I bet you've got a frank in your own life. Somebody who is great at building genuine relationships and partnerships, got them in mind. All right. Now take a moment and think about how they interact with you and what they specifically do to create that connection. Learn from their example in your own life, and then try to apply some of those ideas for yourself. That kind of intention sticks with people, and it speaks louder than anything else. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is that great leaders know that relationships are earned, not assumed. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Ed Bastian, CEO of Delta Airlines. The

Speaker 1 43:23

accolades are nice, but it's totally irrelevant. It's really what you do today and tomorrow that matters, and you got to go out and prove it and do it better every single day.

David Novak 43:31

So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday, you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business, so that you will become the best leader you can be.

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