[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2881/winning-today-doesnt-guarantee-tomorrow","id",2881,"title","Winning today doesn’t guarantee tomorrow","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.080\nyou know, we've been on top of our industry for a lot of years. And I know all\n\n2\n00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:04.400\nthe other\n\n3\n00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:07.680\nairlines are sick and tired about hearing about Delta this and Delta that and\n\n4\n00:00:07.680 --> 00:00:07.840\nyou know,\n\n5\n00:00:07.840 --> 00:00:11.920\nthey just can't wait to take us down and try to beat us and which I love\n\n6\n00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:12.960\nbecause I'm a very\n\n7\n00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:18.040\ncompetitive guy. But what I want our people to always know is that the most\n\n8\n00:00:18.040 --> 00:00:19.280\nimportant thing is the\n\n9\n00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:22.830\nawards, the accolades are nice, but they don't, it's totally irrelevant. It's\n\n10\n00:00:22.830 --> 00:00:23.680\nreally what you do\n\n11\n00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:27.650\ntoday and tomorrow, that matters. And you got to go out and prove it and do it\n\n12\n00:00:27.650 --> 00:00:28.720\nbetter every single\n\n13\n00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:32.720\nday. Keep climbing is our model. We've been using it for years. And every\n\n14\n00:00:32.720 --> 00:00:34.240\nsingle day we can make\n\n15\n00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.600\nthe world better. A number of years ago, my marketing team came to me and you'd\n\n16\n00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:39.520\nlove this story. And\n\n17\n00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:43.360\nthey said, you know, keep climbing. We adopted that coming out of bankruptcy.\n\n18\n00:00:43.360 --> 00:00:44.640\nAnd you know, it was a\n\n19\n00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:48.610\ngreat, it was a great honest statement about where we were weren't very good,\n\n20\n00:00:48.610 --> 00:00:49.600\nbut stay with us. We're\n\n21\n00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:52.770\ngonna get better. And sure enough, we've gotten better. And they wanted to come\n\n22\n00:00:52.770 --> 00:00:53.920\nout with a new\n\n23\n00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:58.210\nmodel, a bolder statement about, you know, not that we've arrived, but you know\n\n24\n00:00:58.210 --> 00:00:58.880\n, there's a different\n\n25\n00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.440\nexperience you should expect on Delta. And I said, thank you very much. And\n\n26\n00:01:02.440 --> 00:01:03.360\nthrew them out and said,\n\n27\n00:01:03.360 --> 00:01:09.440\nI'm never ever changing. Keep climbing. It's honest. It's humble. It recognizes\n\n28\n00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:09.920\nthat we can\n\n29\n00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:13.510\nalways do better and we want to get better. And as long as I'm here, we're\n\n30\n00:01:13.510 --> 00:01:14.800\nnever taking that model off.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",2732520,"end_time",2807494,"keywords","Continuous improvement, competition, competitors, complacency, success, motivation","slug","winning-today-doesnt-guarantee-tomorrow","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","JS6fomzQ02VRBaqO5SXnRNa01YPyvVg7PCUaVVOvPQH9A","mux_asset_id","49qPZ9rquwoCnNe5pzIuQDZ9ongR6swzoB3kxrxzB01k","leader_id",226,"episode_id",378,"updated_at","2025-06-17T18:11:47.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2881/winning-today-doesnt-guarantee-tomorrow","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_62":112,"_59":112,"_113":114,"_69":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":75,"_35":36,"_39":76,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Never stop improving","never-stop-improving","Learn how to keep raising the bar, day after day. Get tips to differentiate your product and boost your culture. Plus, how Tom Brady is helping Delta win!","summary","

Ever catch yourself coasting after a big win?

That’s the moment today’s guest would tell you to push even harder.

In this episode of How Leaders Lead, Delta CEO Ed Bastian shares how he keeps one of the world’s most awarded airlines moving forward—without getting complacent.

You’ll see how his mindset of continuous improvement shapes Delta’s culture, sharpens performance, and helps his team stay ahead in one of the world’s most competitive industries.

You’ll also learn:

One factor that can always differentiate your business
The surprising way that product quality shapes your culture
An inspiring mindset for anyone who’s in a tough moment
What Tom Brady (yes THAT Tom Brady) is teaching Delta

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.560\nThe accolades are nice, but it's totally irrelevant.\n\n2\n00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.560\nIt's really what you do today and tomorrow.\n\n3\n00:00:04.560 --> 00:00:05.600\nThat matters.\n\n4\n00:00:05.600 --> 00:00:07.160\nAnd you gotta go out and prove it\n\n5\n00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:08.940\nand do it better every single day.\n\n6\n00:00:08.940 --> 00:00:19.760\n- Ever catch yourself coasting after a big win?\n\n7\n00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:23.440\nIf so, you do not want to miss today's episode.\n\n8\n00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.160\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead.\n\n9\n00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:28.080\nI'm David Novak and every week I have conversations\n\n10\n00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:30.200\nwith the very best leaders in the world\n\n11\n00:00:30.200 --> 00:00:33.680\nto help you become the best leader that you can be.\n\n12\n00:00:33.680 --> 00:00:38.160\nMy guest today is Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta Airlines.\n\n13\n00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:41.760\nThey've earned a reputation as the most awarded airline\n\n14\n00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:44.240\nin the United States and they've done it\n\n15\n00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:48.160\nwhile serving more than 200 million customers\n\n16\n00:00:48.160 --> 00:00:50.480\nevery single year.\n\n17\n00:00:50.480 --> 00:00:53.200\nEd himself has gotten some acclaim recently,\n\n18\n00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:55.560\nhaving just been named one of Time Magazine's\n\n19\n00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:00.480\n100 most influential people right alongside Mark Zuckerberg\n\n20\n00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:02.520\nand Snoop Dogg, no less.\n\n21\n00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:04.480\nBut here's what I love about Ed.\n\n22\n00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.320\nThe accolades really don't mean that much to him.\n\n23\n00:01:07.320 --> 00:01:10.600\nIn a super competitive industry like the airline business,\n\n24\n00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:12.840\nyou can't rest on that reputation.\n\n25\n00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:17.360\nYou've got to prove it again and again every single day.\n\n26\n00:01:17.360 --> 00:01:21.520\nAnd that's how Ed goes to work every single day.\n\n27\n00:01:21.520 --> 00:01:24.520\nAnd that mentality to never stop improving\n\n28\n00:01:24.520 --> 00:01:27.960\nis something you got to have if you want to stay sharp\n\n29\n00:01:27.960 --> 00:01:29.440\nand stay ahead.\n\n30\n00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:31.840\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend\n\n31\n00:01:31.840 --> 00:01:34.120\nand soon to be yours, Ed Bastian.\n\n32\n00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:43.720\nYou know, when I was doing my research,\n\n33\n00:01:43.720 --> 00:01:45.520\nI learned that you didn't get on a plane\n\n34\n00:01:45.520 --> 00:01:47.560\nuntil you were 25 years old.\n\n35\n00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.320\nNow you're running one of the world's biggest airlines.\n\n36\n00:01:50.320 --> 00:01:51.840\nThat's quite the journey yet.\n\n37\n00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:53.920\nWhat do you remember about that very first flight?\n\n38\n00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:54.800\nI got to ask you that.\n\n39\n00:01:54.800 --> 00:01:55.480\nI do remember.\n\n40\n00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:57.720\nI think everyone probably remembers their first flight.\n\n41\n00:01:57.720 --> 00:02:03.240\nIt was a business trip from LaGuardia to Chicago.\n\n42\n00:02:03.240 --> 00:02:03.920\nOh, hair.\n\n43\n00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:05.600\nI was working.\n\n44\n00:02:05.600 --> 00:02:07.480\nI was working for Price Waterhouse at the time.\n\n45\n00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:09.680\nAnd my account was J. Walter Thompson,\n\n46\n00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:11.240\none of the big ad agencies.\n\n47\n00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:12.720\nDon't remember a whole lot about it\n\n48\n00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:16.560\nother than I was probably apprehensive\n\n49\n00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:18.240\nand excited at the same time\n\n50\n00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:22.600\nand going on your first trip as a business individual.\n\n51\n00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:24.720\nAnd I think I was going by myself too.\n\n52\n00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:25.720\nSo it was pretty cool.\n\n53\n00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:26.960\nYeah.\n\n54\n00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:28.120\nI know what that's like\n\n55\n00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:29.560\n'cause I didn't go on a plane\n\n56\n00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:30.840\nuntil I was out of college too.\n\n57\n00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.240\nSo that's really funny.\n\n58\n00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:34.800\nYou know, and here you are, full circle.\n\n59\n00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.160\nAnd you know, recently you brought thousands\n\n60\n00:02:38.160 --> 00:02:41.360\nof Delta employees together at the sphere in Las Vegas\n\n61\n00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:43.880\nto celebrate your 100th anniversary.\n\n62\n00:02:43.880 --> 00:02:46.680\nAnd what's something about that event, Ed,\n\n63\n00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.200\nthat reinforces how you lead the company?\n\n64\n00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:52.080\nWell, we were honored to be able to do\n\n65\n00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:53.880\none of the opening keynotes for the consumer\n\n66\n00:02:53.880 --> 00:02:54.840\nelectronics show.\n\n67\n00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.920\nAnd as you know, it's the biggest show Vegas puts on\n\n68\n00:02:57.920 --> 00:03:00.320\nall year long and a couple hundred thousand people.\n\n69\n00:03:00.320 --> 00:03:04.680\nAnd I think we had about 15,000 people in attendance\n\n70\n00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:05.520\nat the sphere.\n\n71\n00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.480\nI'd never been to a show at the sphere\n\n72\n00:03:07.480 --> 00:03:10.200\nuntil I saw my own or participated in my own self.\n\n73\n00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:12.800\nThat in itself is probably a story.\n\n74\n00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.960\nBut we were celebrating the future of flight.\n\n75\n00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:20.640\nThe first 100 years, first US airline to get to 100,\n\n76\n00:03:20.640 --> 00:03:24.200\nwhich is pretty crazy, given how turbulent\n\n77\n00:03:24.200 --> 00:03:26.320\nour industry tends to be.\n\n78\n00:03:26.320 --> 00:03:28.840\nBut importantly, where we're going next,\n\n79\n00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:31.400\nyou know, one of the things that we touched on\n\n80\n00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.800\nis we take your travel as a given here in the United States.\n\n81\n00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:35.640\nIt's ubiquitous.\n\n82\n00:03:35.640 --> 00:03:38.600\nYou can jump on a plane, almost anywhere you want to go\n\n83\n00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:39.920\nat any time of day.\n\n84\n00:03:39.920 --> 00:03:43.000\nHowever, only one in five people in the world\n\n85\n00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:45.400\nhave ever even been on an airplane.\n\n86\n00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.040\nSo that tells you about where our future is.\n\n87\n00:03:48.040 --> 00:03:49.880\nIt's not a mature industry by any means.\n\n88\n00:03:49.880 --> 00:03:51.840\nIt's about going global.\n\n89\n00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.520\nIt's about making travel, air travel more accessible,\n\n90\n00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:57.440\nmore affordable, more sustainable,\n\n91\n00:03:57.440 --> 00:03:59.040\nand going to parts of the world\n\n92\n00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:02.040\nwhere we need to bring the Delta Love and Magic.\n\n93\n00:04:02.040 --> 00:04:04.600\n- And you know, you're a great communicator\n\n94\n00:04:04.600 --> 00:04:07.480\nand I know you view it as a very important thing\n\n95\n00:04:07.480 --> 00:04:08.920\nin leadership.\n\n96\n00:04:08.920 --> 00:04:11.240\nYou know, what do you think the role of the leader is\n\n97\n00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:12.760\nto really communicate?\n\n98\n00:04:12.760 --> 00:04:15.280\n- I think one of the most important things we do\n\n99\n00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.120\nin running these companies is that we cast vision\n\n100\n00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:21.560\nand we all have planning departments\n\n101\n00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:24.280\nand we all set strategy and we have a probably team\n\n102\n00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:26.680\nof people that works on that with us.\n\n103\n00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:29.320\nBut I think only the CEO can think,\n\n104\n00:04:29.320 --> 00:04:33.160\nhas the responsibility and also the ability\n\n105\n00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:34.920\nto think further out.\n\n106\n00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.600\nYou know, I try myself to try to stay at least five years\n\n107\n00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.400\nahead of my team, of the company, maybe 10 years.\n\n108\n00:04:41.400 --> 00:04:43.360\nYou know, thinking about where we can go\n\n109\n00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:45.760\nand stretching the possibility\n\n110\n00:04:45.760 --> 00:04:49.000\nso that, you know, people throughout the organization\n\n111\n00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:52.680\nhave a pretty good idea where we want to go\n\n112\n00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.600\nand be able to pivot when we need to pivot soon enough\n\n113\n00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:59.280\nand get far enough out so that we're not necessarily\n\n114\n00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:02.360\ntied in to those decisions, but strategically\n\n115\n00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.520\nhave a pretty good mindset.\n\n116\n00:05:04.520 --> 00:05:06.160\nAnd that's where communication comes in\n\n117\n00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:08.960\n'cause you have to be doing it over and over and over.\n\n118\n00:05:08.960 --> 00:05:10.760\nDelta, we have 100,000 employees.\n\n119\n00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:13.760\nAnd I speak all the time and I'm in front of them\n\n120\n00:05:13.760 --> 00:05:16.240\nin so many different formats, but you gotta be consistent.\n\n121\n00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.360\nYou gotta be inspiring in terms of what that vision\n\n122\n00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:22.280\nlays out 'cause you're gonna have people\n\n123\n00:05:22.280 --> 00:05:25.680\ngiven their very best to make sure it comes into fruition.\n\n124\n00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:27.640\nAnd, you know, my years of CEO,\n\n125\n00:05:27.640 --> 00:05:28.960\nI think that's one of the things I've learned.\n\n126\n00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:30.800\nI didn't really fully appreciate it\n\n127\n00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.960\nbefore I became a CEO.\n\n128\n00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:35.960\nBut, you know, no one can do it but the CEO at that level.\n\n129\n00:05:35.960 --> 00:05:36.840\n- Yeah, absolutely.\n\n130\n00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:40.400\nAnd, you know, you also have the day-to-day grind\n\n131\n00:05:40.400 --> 00:05:41.280\nof competition.\n\n132\n00:05:41.280 --> 00:05:44.160\nAnd, you know, recently in one new article,\n\n133\n00:05:44.160 --> 00:05:47.640\nI saw this headline where it said Delta Airlines,\n\n134\n00:05:47.640 --> 00:05:52.640\nLures Southwest Airline Fliers with the status offer.\n\n135\n00:05:52.640 --> 00:05:56.320\nYou know, how do you think about competition\n\n136\n00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:59.280\nand how do you build competitive urgency\n\n137\n00:05:59.280 --> 00:06:00.760\ninto your organization?\n\n138\n00:06:00.760 --> 00:06:05.000\n- Well, we are a fiercely competitive industry.\n\n139\n00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:07.920\nYou know, unlike maybe your old company\n\n140\n00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:10.680\nwhere you put up a store and you had that street corner,\n\n141\n00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:12.680\nthey couldn't take it away from you.\n\n142\n00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:14.400\nOur factories fly.\n\n143\n00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:16.680\nSo when we see something that works,\n\n144\n00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:17.520\nguess what?\n\n145\n00:06:17.520 --> 00:06:19.880\nThe rest of the industry takes their factories\n\n146\n00:06:19.880 --> 00:06:23.200\nand they fly and try to sit right on top of us.\n\n147\n00:06:23.200 --> 00:06:25.960\nCould you imagine a street corner with eight corners to it?\n\n148\n00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:28.120\nYou know, different restaurants\n\n149\n00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:29.800\ntrying to serve different things.\n\n150\n00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.520\nAnd so the dynamics of that environment\n\n151\n00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:38.520\nand the ability for consumers to check online, you know,\n\n152\n00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:41.640\npricing, you know, real time, all the time,\n\n153\n00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:43.520\nwhere they want to go, it's right in front of them.\n\n154\n00:06:43.520 --> 00:06:46.800\nThere's a whole industry of online travel agencies\n\n155\n00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.560\nand expedias and price lines that are geared\n\n156\n00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:51.840\nto give consumers, you know, their very best value\n\n157\n00:06:51.840 --> 00:06:54.040\nout of trying to compete one against the next.\n\n158\n00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:55.000\nWe're born of that.\n\n159\n00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.280\nWe've gotten a lot better, a lot as retailers\n\n160\n00:06:58.280 --> 00:07:00.600\nand as merchandisers over time,\n\n161\n00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:02.920\nbut we're born for competition and I love it\n\n162\n00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:04.640\n'cause it's what makes us great.\n\n163\n00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:07.040\n- I can't wait to hear more about how you're leading Delta,\n\n164\n00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.000\nbut first I want to take you back.\n\n165\n00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:11.800\nYou know, what's the story from your childhood\n\n166\n00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:13.760\nthat shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n167\n00:07:13.760 --> 00:07:18.040\n- Well, to know my childhood knows I was one of nine kids,\n\n168\n00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:20.960\ngrowing up in a small town in Poughkeepsie, New York,\n\n169\n00:07:20.960 --> 00:07:22.840\nand I was the oldest of the nine.\n\n170\n00:07:22.840 --> 00:07:24.520\nAnd my dad, it was a dentist,\n\n171\n00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:26.240\nhe had his practice rate in our house.\n\n172\n00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:28.960\nMy mom worked for him and my grandmother lived with us.\n\n173\n00:07:28.960 --> 00:07:30.040\nAnd it wasn't that big a house.\n\n174\n00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.680\nI think we had one and a half bathrooms in the house.\n\n175\n00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:34.520\n(laughs)\n\n176\n00:07:34.520 --> 00:07:37.160\nSo you can imagine, you know, today,\n\n177\n00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:38.960\nI tell my kids that story,\n\n178\n00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:42.680\nthey think I grew up in the medieval age or something,\n\n179\n00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.280\nlike that, how in the world did you do?\n\n180\n00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:47.080\nBut, you know, honestly, and I know you can relate to us,\n\n181\n00:07:47.080 --> 00:07:50.000\nyou know, things seem easier, things seem simpler.\n\n182\n00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.920\nI think we were all maybe a little happier even\n\n183\n00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:55.760\nto live life together.\n\n184\n00:07:55.760 --> 00:07:59.000\nBut what I learned is I had to get out for a lot of reasons,\n\n185\n00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.160\nbut once I wanted to make sure I had to get an example\n\n186\n00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.840\nfrom my younger siblings in which my parents\n\n187\n00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:07.880\nemphasized Ami repeatedly that we had to set the pace.\n\n188\n00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:09.840\nAnd we did.\n\n189\n00:08:09.840 --> 00:08:11.720\nAnd so you learn a lot about teamwork,\n\n190\n00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:15.360\nyou learn a lot about working, collaborating,\n\n191\n00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.920\nyou learn a lot about, you know, understanding, you know,\n\n192\n00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.600\nin a tight knit community, you know,\n\n193\n00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.080\nthe importance one can have of being a leader.\n\n194\n00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:28.840\n- Well, you know, with nine kids and one and a half bathrooms,\n\n195\n00:08:28.840 --> 00:08:30.400\nyou probably had to learn a little bit\n\n196\n00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:32.200\nabout how to manage chaos as well.\n\n197\n00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.160\nDid you go?\n\n198\n00:08:34.160 --> 00:08:35.160\n- Oh, yeah.\n\n199\n00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:37.400\nMy sisters ran the bathroom, so we had to,\n\n200\n00:08:37.400 --> 00:08:39.760\nwe had to negotiate for our two-minute slots.\n\n201\n00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:41.160\n(laughs)\n\n202\n00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:43.680\n- You know, you started your career as an accountant\n\n203\n00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:46.960\nat Price Waterhouse, and as I understand it,\n\n204\n00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:49.520\nyou helped them cover at one point in your career,\n\n205\n00:08:49.520 --> 00:08:51.680\n$50 million in fraud.\n\n206\n00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:53.080\nYou got to tell us that story.\n\n207\n00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:55.280\n- Yeah, so this is back in, gosh, I don't know,\n\n208\n00:08:55.280 --> 00:08:58.120\nthe early '80s and, you know, $50 million,\n\n209\n00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.440\nit's a lot of money, but it was a whole lot of money back then.\n\n210\n00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:05.480\nAnd it was a front page Wall Street Journal article for years.\n\n211\n00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:08.000\nAnd I was working on this ad agency,\n\n212\n00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:09.560\nwhich I mentioned, J. Walter Thompson,\n\n213\n00:09:09.560 --> 00:09:13.280\nand I stumbled upon something that just didn't make sense\n\n214\n00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:17.360\nto me in terms of how the company was reconciling its books,\n\n215\n00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:20.920\nand it had this manual reconciliation of one account\n\n216\n00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:23.520\nto the next that went on for, gosh,\n\n217\n00:09:23.520 --> 00:09:26.240\nit must have been like 25 or 30 manual pages\n\n218\n00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:27.440\nand went on for years.\n\n219\n00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.520\nIt just kept adding and adding and adding\n\n220\n00:09:29.520 --> 00:09:32.800\nto the point where no one had a clue as to what it was.\n\n221\n00:09:32.800 --> 00:09:35.440\nAnd so, you know, people just kind of accept it,\n\n222\n00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:36.680\nwell, if it was good enough last year,\n\n223\n00:09:36.680 --> 00:09:38.920\nit's pretty consistent with it,\n\n224\n00:09:38.920 --> 00:09:40.200\njust kind of keep the thing rolling.\n\n225\n00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:42.680\nAnd I dug in and made it,\n\n226\n00:09:42.680 --> 00:09:46.520\nbecause it was such a big number of my pursuit\n\n227\n00:09:46.520 --> 00:09:49.600\nto try to figure out what exactly was this difference.\n\n228\n00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.200\nAnd as it turned out, it was all fraudulent.\n\n229\n00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.080\nThey were covering up the fact that they weren't able\n\n230\n00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.960\nto cover a certain advertising.\n\n231\n00:09:59.960 --> 00:10:02.240\nThere was a show that they were producing\n\n232\n00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:04.240\nthat was being used on barter.\n\n233\n00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:06.680\nAnd there was a long, long way of saying,\n\n234\n00:10:06.680 --> 00:10:10.360\nI dug in so much that the company wound up, you know,\n\n235\n00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.480\nacknowledging and figuring out that it was fraud.\n\n236\n00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:15.680\nAnd there was an SEC investigation\n\n237\n00:10:15.680 --> 00:10:17.640\nand people went to jail and gosh,\n\n238\n00:10:17.640 --> 00:10:20.360\nI was like 24 years old at the time.\n\n239\n00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.320\nAnd, you know, I was scared out of my mind.\n\n240\n00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:26.840\nBut, you know, I realized that you got to trust your instincts\n\n241\n00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:28.440\nand you got to, you got to,\n\n242\n00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:31.120\ncuriosity plays such an important role in leadership\n\n243\n00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.160\nand in life and trying to figure things out\n\n244\n00:10:34.160 --> 00:10:37.760\nuntil you can and don't let it go, be tenacious.\n\n245\n00:10:37.760 --> 00:10:40.320\n- Yeah, 24 years old and take on a problem like that.\n\n246\n00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:43.600\nThat had to, you know, take you up the scale in a hurry.\n\n247\n00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.120\nAnd, you know, something that we have in common\n\n248\n00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:50.280\nthat I didn't know was that we both had 10 years at PepsiCo\n\n249\n00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:52.280\nand working with Free to Lay.\n\n250\n00:10:52.280 --> 00:10:54.520\nWhat was the biggest leadership lesson you picked up\n\n251\n00:10:54.520 --> 00:10:57.240\nin your seven years you spent with that great company?\n\n252\n00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.920\n- I loved my time at PepsiCo.\n\n253\n00:10:59.920 --> 00:11:03.520\nI got out of school and went to work,\n\n254\n00:11:03.520 --> 00:11:05.840\nwent to St. Bonaventure University in upstate New York\n\n255\n00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.640\nand went to Price Waterhouse.\n\n256\n00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:11.240\nI didn't have any real graduate learning\n\n257\n00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:14.120\nand came in accountant with them,\n\n258\n00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.920\nbut I knew I didn't want to do that forever.\n\n259\n00:11:16.920 --> 00:11:19.680\nAnd I needed to find a way to get a broader business degree.\n\n260\n00:11:19.680 --> 00:11:20.720\nBut I didn't want to stop working\n\n261\n00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:22.320\n'cause I didn't want to have to pay for it.\n\n262\n00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.120\nSo the next best thing is get hired by PepsiCo\n\n263\n00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:28.480\nand you're surrounded by amazing leaders.\n\n264\n00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:30.360\nI know you spent time with Enrico.\n\n265\n00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:32.920\nI spent a lot of time with Roger and Steve Reinemann\n\n266\n00:11:32.920 --> 00:11:35.320\nand I worked on the international side of the business.\n\n267\n00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:40.320\nSo we could get on the Chester Cheeto plane out of Plano\n\n268\n00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:41.560\nand fly around the world.\n\n269\n00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:44.560\nAnd, you know, you'd be with six, seven, eight people\n\n270\n00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:47.120\nfor a week at a time and they bring you back home.\n\n271\n00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:50.700\nAnd you just sit at the hands of some of the real business\n\n272\n00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:51.660\ngiants.\n\n273\n00:11:51.660 --> 00:11:53.880\nI learned a lot about sales.\n\n274\n00:11:53.880 --> 00:11:56.040\nI learned a lot about such an up,\n\n275\n00:11:56.040 --> 00:11:58.800\nthe direct to store business,\n\n276\n00:11:58.800 --> 00:12:00.600\nthe up and down the street, you know,\n\n277\n00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.220\nyou're out on the street corner\n\n278\n00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:05.280\nand you're talking to real people about, you know,\n\n279\n00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:07.300\nwhat you have to do to be successful in life\n\n280\n00:12:07.300 --> 00:12:09.600\nand all different parts of the world.\n\n281\n00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:10.880\nI was there for seven years.\n\n282\n00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:12.840\nI probably got two or three X that\n\n283\n00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:15.000\nin terms of valuable expertise to the point\n\n284\n00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:17.440\nwhen Delta called and offered me an opportunity\n\n285\n00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.620\nto become work and be my own leader\n\n286\n00:12:20.620 --> 00:12:22.420\nin the finance organization at Delta.\n\n287\n00:12:22.420 --> 00:12:25.580\nI've felt truly, truly prepared for it.\n\n288\n00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:28.940\n- And you became the chief financial officer\n\n289\n00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:31.780\nof Delta in 2005.\n\n290\n00:12:31.780 --> 00:12:36.580\nAnd as I understand it, not long after the airline\n\n291\n00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:38.420\nhad to file for bankruptcy.\n\n292\n00:12:38.420 --> 00:12:42.220\nHow did that season make you a better leader?\n\n293\n00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:44.340\n- Well, I'd left the company.\n\n294\n00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.800\nI joined originally in '98 and left the company\n\n295\n00:12:47.800 --> 00:12:50.160\nbecause it was in the aftermath of 9/11\n\n296\n00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:52.360\nand the industry was just hurting\n\n297\n00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.440\nand travel was changed and international was different.\n\n298\n00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:59.600\nAnd I saw the company making a lot of decisions\n\n299\n00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:00.960\nthat were inconsistent with the values\n\n300\n00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:04.520\nthat I knew it held, you know, pay cuts and job losses\n\n301\n00:13:04.520 --> 00:13:06.060\nand customer comeback.\n\n302\n00:13:06.060 --> 00:13:07.240\nYour travel was really hard.\n\n303\n00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.040\nTalk about it as a lost decade from 2000 to 2010.\n\n304\n00:13:11.040 --> 00:13:13.000\nAnyone out there out there is a real worry\n\n305\n00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:14.340\nthat back, you know, during that period\n\n306\n00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:16.900\ncan commiserate with that.\n\n307\n00:13:16.900 --> 00:13:18.620\nAnd I wound up leaving the company\n\n308\n00:13:18.620 --> 00:13:22.100\n'cause I wasn't able to get some of my concerns\n\n309\n00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:23.100\nproperly addressed.\n\n310\n00:13:23.100 --> 00:13:25.140\nAnd a few months after I left,\n\n311\n00:13:25.140 --> 00:13:27.820\nthe CO came running back after me and said,\n\n312\n00:13:27.820 --> 00:13:30.300\n\"What do we need to do to get you to come back?\"\n\n313\n00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:32.260\nAnd I told them several things,\n\n314\n00:13:32.260 --> 00:13:34.340\none of which was unusual is that this company\n\n315\n00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:35.500\nneeded to file for bankruptcy\n\n316\n00:13:35.500 --> 00:13:37.500\nand kind of get a reset and start over again.\n\n317\n00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:40.460\nAnd I talked to CO into agreeing to do that.\n\n318\n00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:42.780\nIf I came back, it wasn't a matter,\n\n319\n00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:45.160\nif we were gonna file bankruptcy, it was just when.\n\n320\n00:13:45.160 --> 00:13:47.080\nAnd we wanted to make sure we went into bankruptcy\n\n321\n00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:49.260\nwith a real plan rather than stumbling into it\n\n322\n00:13:49.260 --> 00:13:51.000\nand actually getting broken up.\n\n323\n00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:52.520\nYou know, our industry, David,\n\n324\n00:13:52.520 --> 00:13:55.780\nCO at the time when I was in the courtroom\n\n325\n00:13:55.780 --> 00:13:59.800\nfiling it, 180 airlines had filed for bankruptcy\n\n326\n00:13:59.800 --> 00:14:00.720\nat that point in time.\n\n327\n00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.240\nYou think about all the disruption in our industry.\n\n328\n00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.940\nAnd at that time, only four had ever made it out.\n\n329\n00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:08.400\nSo he wished me well and said,\n\n330\n00:14:08.400 --> 00:14:09.980\n\"I hope to see you on the other side.\"\n\n331\n00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:10.980\nAnd we did.\n\n332\n00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:15.180\nAnd you think about all the airlines from the past from Pan Am\n\n333\n00:14:15.180 --> 00:14:18.940\nto DWA to Eastern to Braniff to Hughes.\n\n334\n00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:22.500\nAnd you go on and on and people express on and on and on.\n\n335\n00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:24.740\nYet Delta is the airline that made it to 100.\n\n336\n00:14:24.740 --> 00:14:27.060\n- Yeah, what did you do as a leader during that period\n\n337\n00:14:27.060 --> 00:14:28.540\nthat made that happen?\n\n338\n00:14:28.540 --> 00:14:30.700\nBecause like you said, not everybody did it.\n\n339\n00:14:30.700 --> 00:14:33.540\nI mean, what did you learn from that experience?\n\n340\n00:14:33.540 --> 00:14:36.100\n- We learned to kind of go back to our roots,\n\n341\n00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:37.260\nto go back to our people.\n\n342\n00:14:37.260 --> 00:14:39.900\nIt's this, you know, this is a tough business,\n\n343\n00:14:39.900 --> 00:14:43.300\nbut the differentiation about Delta is about a service\n\n344\n00:14:43.300 --> 00:14:44.820\nthat our people provide.\n\n345\n00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:46.340\nWe all fly the same planes.\n\n346\n00:14:46.340 --> 00:14:48.700\nWe all have a lot of the same airports.\n\n347\n00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:50.740\nWe go to the same destinations.\n\n348\n00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.740\nThe only thing about our service, our brand,\n\n349\n00:14:53.740 --> 00:14:56.740\nthat is truly distinctive, cannot be replicated\n\n350\n00:14:56.740 --> 00:14:58.980\nas the quality of the service of our people\n\n351\n00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:01.500\nand the relationship we have with our people\n\n352\n00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:06.060\nand the service, the heart that they deploy.\n\n353\n00:15:06.060 --> 00:15:07.180\nAnd travel is hard.\n\n354\n00:15:07.180 --> 00:15:09.740\nAnd our people do amazing things,\n\n355\n00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:11.700\nnot just to have the most reliable service,\n\n356\n00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:13.540\nbut to have the most distinctive.\n\n357\n00:15:13.540 --> 00:15:17.100\nAnd that's why I felt our people were being let down.\n\n358\n00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:20.180\nAnd so we got that heart and soul back.\n\n359\n00:15:20.180 --> 00:15:22.100\nAnd we started a program back then,\n\n360\n00:15:22.100 --> 00:15:26.020\nalmost 20 years ago to this day that I continue today\n\n361\n00:15:26.020 --> 00:15:29.460\nwhere I get six, seven, 800 of our frontline employees\n\n362\n00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:30.860\nfrom all over the world together.\n\n363\n00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:33.220\nWe do it 15 different times a year.\n\n364\n00:15:33.220 --> 00:15:35.180\nAnd we spend a couple of days of them\n\n365\n00:15:35.180 --> 00:15:38.740\ntalking about the business, kind of networking, learning,\n\n366\n00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:42.500\ninspiring, motivating, casting that vision\n\n367\n00:15:42.500 --> 00:15:44.740\nthat we talked about and having fun\n\n368\n00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:47.180\nand celebrating at the same time.\n\n369\n00:15:47.180 --> 00:15:49.500\nBut that's what the heart of teamwork is,\n\n370\n00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:52.420\nis getting people together and really appreciating\n\n371\n00:15:52.420 --> 00:15:55.780\nthe magic that we get to create a Delta.\n\n372\n00:15:55.780 --> 00:15:57.980\n- Well, and then just two years later,\n\n373\n00:15:57.980 --> 00:16:02.460\nyou get out of bankruptcy, you get promoted to president.\n\n374\n00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:05.580\nYou know, so many times when you're a functional leader\n\n375\n00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.860\nin finance, you get pigeonholed as this numbers guy.\n\n376\n00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:11.300\nYou know, how did you demonstrate\n\n377\n00:16:11.300 --> 00:16:13.940\nthat you were more than just a numbers guy?\n\n378\n00:16:13.940 --> 00:16:15.740\nAnd you knew what it really took\n\n379\n00:16:15.740 --> 00:16:17.460\nto run the business day to day.\n\n380\n00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:19.060\n- Well, one of the things about the airlines\n\n381\n00:16:19.060 --> 00:16:21.620\nis that they are, as I said earlier,\n\n382\n00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.060\nreally dynamic animals.\n\n383\n00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:24.900\nYou know, you gotta be on top of your numbers\n\n384\n00:16:24.900 --> 00:16:26.820\nto be able to make decisions.\n\n385\n00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:28.580\n'Cause those, you know, whether it's,\n\n386\n00:16:28.580 --> 00:16:30.940\nevery, you know, 5,000 flights a day that we have\n\n387\n00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:33.460\nin every condition and things are moving around,\n\n388\n00:16:33.460 --> 00:16:36.140\nfuel prices are moving around, heavy, heavy labor,\n\n389\n00:16:36.140 --> 00:16:39.420\nintensity, you know, high cost utilization.\n\n390\n00:16:39.420 --> 00:16:42.860\nSo you really have to understand where your levers are\n\n391\n00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:44.260\nto drive, to drive success.\n\n392\n00:16:44.260 --> 00:16:45.540\nYou need to understand your pricing.\n\n393\n00:16:45.540 --> 00:16:49.100\nYou need to understand where the value proposition sits.\n\n394\n00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.540\nYou need to understand where your capital is gonna go.\n\n395\n00:16:51.540 --> 00:16:54.540\nAnd so having that analytical depth,\n\n396\n00:16:54.540 --> 00:16:56.780\nwhich I think finance teaches it\n\n397\n00:16:56.780 --> 00:17:00.020\nas great a discipline as there is,\n\n398\n00:17:00.020 --> 00:17:03.220\nis something that I think is key to being a successful leader\n\n399\n00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:05.820\nin the airline space.\n\n400\n00:17:05.820 --> 00:17:07.940\nHistorically, it had come through labor,\n\n401\n00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:09.180\nit had come with lawyers.\n\n402\n00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:11.900\nAnd now if you look at the most successful airlines\n\n403\n00:17:11.900 --> 00:17:16.420\nin the world, many of us have kind of financial backgrounds\n\n404\n00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:18.220\nand analytical skills.\n\n405\n00:17:18.220 --> 00:17:21.700\nAnd it used to be an industry with people with huge egos\n\n406\n00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:25.740\nand wanting to go conquer the globe,\n\n407\n00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:27.980\nreal swashbuckling heroes.\n\n408\n00:17:27.980 --> 00:17:30.820\nNow we tend to be business people with, we wear suits\n\n409\n00:17:30.820 --> 00:17:32.340\nand we have finance degrees,\n\n410\n00:17:32.340 --> 00:17:35.500\n'cause that's what it takes to succeed in this industry.\n\n411\n00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:38.100\n- But still you had to get this customer orientation.\n\n412\n00:17:38.100 --> 00:17:39.660\nWhen did you get that in your bones?\n\n413\n00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:41.260\n- I learned, I had a lot of people taught me.\n\n414\n00:17:41.260 --> 00:17:43.500\nI learned that a PepsiCo, you know, seven, eight years.\n\n415\n00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:46.180\nI was an audit partner at Press Waterhouse.\n\n416\n00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:47.300\nI had a lot of big accounts.\n\n417\n00:17:47.300 --> 00:17:50.180\nI was out serving them and leading them.\n\n418\n00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:51.660\nI had a lot of people here at Delta\n\n419\n00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:54.620\nthat taught me about that prior mentors\n\n420\n00:17:54.620 --> 00:17:57.540\nand CEOs here that I learned from.\n\n421\n00:17:57.540 --> 00:18:02.540\nAnd what they taught me is it's all about people,\n\n422\n00:18:02.540 --> 00:18:03.900\nabout service.\n\n423\n00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:07.780\nIf you can get your people pulling in the same direction\n\n424\n00:18:07.780 --> 00:18:10.540\nand you get them behind you, they'll do amazing things for you.\n\n425\n00:18:10.540 --> 00:18:12.620\nAnd you take good care of them, you treat them well,\n\n426\n00:18:12.620 --> 00:18:14.620\nyou pay them great.\n\n427\n00:18:14.620 --> 00:18:17.820\nAnd you know that they know you always have their back.\n\n428\n00:18:17.820 --> 00:18:18.660\nThey can do magic.\n\n429\n00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:21.180\nI think too many of our leaders over time\n\n430\n00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:23.620\nfeel like they have to give too much direction,\n\n431\n00:18:23.620 --> 00:18:26.540\ntoo much micromanaging, too much taking away\n\n432\n00:18:26.540 --> 00:18:29.860\ntheir ability to create their own leadership mantras.\n\n433\n00:18:29.860 --> 00:18:32.940\nAnd that's where I think you get in trouble.\n\n434\n00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:34.980\n- Hey everyone, it's Kula from Hal Leaders Lead.\n\n435\n00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:37.420\nAnd we have a brand new playlist available\n\n436\n00:18:37.420 --> 00:18:38.620\nin the Hal Leaders Lead app\n\n437\n00:18:38.620 --> 00:18:39.940\nand I wanna tell you about it.\n\n438\n00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:42.660\nIt's all about how you can fuel yourself up\n\n439\n00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:45.380\nto show up in the very best way as a leader.\n\n440\n00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:47.540\nThe playlist is called Wellness and the Workplace\n\n441\n00:18:47.540 --> 00:18:49.540\nand it'll inspire you to do the things\n\n442\n00:18:49.540 --> 00:18:51.900\nthat you need to do on a daily basis\n\n443\n00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:53.860\nso that you show up mentally sharp,\n\n444\n00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:55.820\nphysically sharp and emotionally sharp\n\n445\n00:18:55.820 --> 00:18:57.540\nand so that you can lead your people\n\n446\n00:18:57.540 --> 00:18:59.940\nin the way that they deserve to be led.\n\n447\n00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:01.340\nGrab access to the playlist.\n\n448\n00:19:01.340 --> 00:19:02.980\nYou can either click this link\n\n449\n00:19:02.980 --> 00:19:06.380\nor download the Hal Leaders Lead app, tap playlists\n\n450\n00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.220\nand listen to the wellness in the workplace playlist.\n\n451\n00:19:09.220 --> 00:19:10.620\nYou can literally just listen to it\n\n452\n00:19:10.620 --> 00:19:13.940\nlike you would a Spotify playlist tapping the first track\n\n453\n00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:16.100\nand then letting it play all the way through.\n\n454\n00:19:16.100 --> 00:19:19.460\nI hope this playlist will inspire you to do those things\n\n455\n00:19:19.460 --> 00:19:23.020\nthat you know, fuel yourself and fill your cup\n\n456\n00:19:23.020 --> 00:19:25.620\nso that you can show up in the very best way\n\n457\n00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:26.740\nfor your people.\n\n458\n00:19:26.740 --> 00:19:28.700\nGet access to this playlist today.\n\n459\n00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:31.140\n- When did you first start to think\n\n460\n00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:33.260\nthat you could become the CEO, Ed?\n\n461\n00:19:33.260 --> 00:19:37.300\n- Oh, I'm still learning 10 years later.\n\n462\n00:19:37.300 --> 00:19:40.500\nI'd say it was about that time about 20 years ago.\n\n463\n00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:43.700\nI was working hard, we were in bankruptcy.\n\n464\n00:19:43.700 --> 00:19:45.620\nI took a week off to my family.\n\n465\n00:19:45.620 --> 00:19:49.140\nWe went on a vacation someplace and I came back in town\n\n466\n00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.420\nand there was a big, big fuss going on\n\n467\n00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:53.140\nin the local community.\n\n468\n00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:56.780\nSo the fellow who was the CEO, Jerry Grinstein,\n\n469\n00:19:56.780 --> 00:19:59.220\nthe name rings a bell, was my boss.\n\n470\n00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:01.700\nAnd he had given an interview to the local land\n\n471\n00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:02.900\nand newspaper and they were,\n\n472\n00:20:02.900 --> 00:20:07.020\n'cause Jerry had said when he left and retired from Delta,\n\n473\n00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:09.460\nafter the bankruptcy, he was gonna try to pick someone\n\n474\n00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:12.260\nfrom within the company and they were giving a couple names\n\n475\n00:20:12.260 --> 00:20:14.260\nand one of the names he highlighted was me\n\n476\n00:20:14.260 --> 00:20:15.820\nto be a successor.\n\n477\n00:20:15.820 --> 00:20:18.940\nHe never said that once in his life to me,\n\n478\n00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:20.380\nonce in his life and I come back\n\n479\n00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:22.420\nand I've got all the people in the company looking at me\n\n480\n00:20:22.420 --> 00:20:24.020\nlike what are you doing to kiss up?\n\n481\n00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:28.020\nOr how did you, how did you garner his favor?\n\n482\n00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:29.340\nSo I went in to see him.\n\n483\n00:20:29.340 --> 00:20:31.500\nI said, Jerry, do you have something to tell me?\n\n484\n00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:33.340\nAnd I had this article in hand, they said,\n\n485\n00:20:33.340 --> 00:20:36.660\nwell, you should be the CEO and you can be the CEO\n\n486\n00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:38.620\nand question is do you wanna be the CEO?\n\n487\n00:20:38.620 --> 00:20:41.220\nAnd I said, well, I'm not sure I had to think about that.\n\n488\n00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:43.540\nAnd I came back to him at some point and said,\n\n489\n00:20:43.540 --> 00:20:46.460\nyeah, I would really like to have that honor someday.\n\n490\n00:20:46.460 --> 00:20:49.500\nAnd as a result, eventually it came about.\n\n491\n00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:52.660\n- And you did become the ninth CEO for Delta\n\n492\n00:20:52.660 --> 00:20:55.300\nand that was in May of 2016.\n\n493\n00:20:55.300 --> 00:20:58.140\nYou know, I can tell when you talk about people,\n\n494\n00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.180\nyou know, culture has to be really important to you.\n\n495\n00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:05.020\nAnd you know, as a CEO, what are you trying\n\n496\n00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:09.780\nto bring the culture today that maybe wasn't there\n\n497\n00:21:09.780 --> 00:21:11.300\na few years ago because, you know,\n\n498\n00:21:11.300 --> 00:21:12.620\nyour culture can't evolve.\n\n499\n00:21:12.620 --> 00:21:16.340\nIs there some behavior that you think is gonna be necessary\n\n500\n00:21:16.340 --> 00:21:18.460\nfor you to be better in the future?\n\n501\n00:21:18.460 --> 00:21:20.460\n- You know, culture is something that, you know,\n\n502\n00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:24.660\npeople sometimes think it's just, it's an intangible,\n\n503\n00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:28.260\nit's out there, it's the end product of a lot of things\n\n504\n00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:29.100\nthat you do.\n\n505\n00:21:29.100 --> 00:21:30.580\nI think it's something you have to manage.\n\n506\n00:21:30.580 --> 00:21:32.660\nI think it's something that can be formed\n\n507\n00:21:32.660 --> 00:21:35.420\nand can be cultivated and can be,\n\n508\n00:21:35.420 --> 00:21:37.780\nneeds to be invested in or else you can lose it.\n\n509\n00:21:37.780 --> 00:21:41.820\nAnd you know, as the word says, it's cult.\n\n510\n00:21:41.820 --> 00:21:45.900\nYou know, part of it is there has to be a dedication\n\n511\n00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:46.740\nto something.\n\n512\n00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:49.100\nThere has to be a consistent application of it.\n\n513\n00:21:49.100 --> 00:21:51.940\nThere has to be a pouring of investment into it.\n\n514\n00:21:51.940 --> 00:21:53.780\nFor us, it is our people.\n\n515\n00:21:53.780 --> 00:21:56.140\nAnd over, I'd say the last 10 years,\n\n516\n00:21:56.140 --> 00:21:58.660\nmy duration here, Delta,\n\n517\n00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:01.260\nthe main thing that we've invested in is differentiation.\n\n518\n00:22:01.260 --> 00:22:03.380\nAs a higher end airline,\n\n519\n00:22:03.380 --> 00:22:06.340\nas a higher premium airline,\n\n520\n00:22:06.340 --> 00:22:07.780\nas a more international,\n\n521\n00:22:07.780 --> 00:22:09.660\nwe've 14 years running,\n\n522\n00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:12.340\nbeen named the number one business airline\n\n523\n00:22:12.340 --> 00:22:15.420\nby Business Travel News for Corporate America.\n\n524\n00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.500\nAll those things are things that we set out 20 years ago\n\n525\n00:22:18.500 --> 00:22:19.780\nto create.\n\n526\n00:22:19.780 --> 00:22:21.620\nAnd we've been investing in them\n\n527\n00:22:21.620 --> 00:22:24.340\nand the reliability of the product and the service.\n\n528\n00:22:24.340 --> 00:22:25.820\nYou know, the airline business is tough.\n\n529\n00:22:25.820 --> 00:22:28.540\nAnd the most important thing you can do as an airline leader\n\n530\n00:22:28.540 --> 00:22:32.300\nis to invest in the quality and the reliability of your product\n\n531\n00:22:32.300 --> 00:22:34.740\nin minimizing your cancellations,\n\n532\n00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:36.860\nmaking sure your on time arrival rates\n\n533\n00:22:36.860 --> 00:22:38.980\nare the best in business.\n\n534\n00:22:38.980 --> 00:22:42.860\nAnd over time, your own employees realize you're doing this\n\n535\n00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:45.540\nand giving them then the platform to succeed,\n\n536\n00:22:45.540 --> 00:22:47.140\ngiving them the workplace.\n\n537\n00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:48.820\n'Cause our flight attendants,\n\n538\n00:22:48.820 --> 00:22:50.860\nwe have 25,000 flight attendants.\n\n539\n00:22:50.860 --> 00:22:52.740\nThey're awesome at hospitality.\n\n540\n00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:56.500\nThe one thing I know they're awful at is apologizing.\n\n541\n00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:59.540\n'Cause they get more upset than anyone their customers do,\n\n542\n00:22:59.540 --> 00:23:00.500\nif we're not on time,\n\n543\n00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:03.580\nor if we're not meeting our commitments to the brand promise.\n\n544\n00:23:03.580 --> 00:23:05.900\nAnd so serving them by making sure\n\n545\n00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:08.340\nthey have the very best airline reliability\n\n546\n00:23:08.340 --> 00:23:11.300\nand the very best tools and technologies to deliver,\n\n547\n00:23:11.300 --> 00:23:13.460\nthen we set them free to go deliver\n\n548\n00:23:13.460 --> 00:23:16.620\nand put an exclamation point on service with a smile.\n\n549\n00:23:16.620 --> 00:23:17.420\nThat's different.\n\n550\n00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:21.260\nAnd over time, that's then yielded premium quality service.\n\n551\n00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:23.340\nThat's delivering higher quality.\n\n552\n00:23:23.340 --> 00:23:27.980\nToday, Delta generates about 20% more per ticket\n\n553\n00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:32.260\nfor per flight seat per seat than our competition does.\n\n554\n00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:34.900\nAnd that's because people are valuing\n\n555\n00:23:34.900 --> 00:23:36.860\nthe quality of that brand.\n\n556\n00:23:36.860 --> 00:23:38.980\n- And is there anything going forward\n\n557\n00:23:38.980 --> 00:23:40.740\nthat you're trying to do differently\n\n558\n00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:43.820\nwith the culture or it's more of the same old, same old?\n\n559\n00:23:43.820 --> 00:23:45.380\n- There was a big pivot during COVID.\n\n560\n00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:48.820\nWe hired, we had a lot of people voluntarily retire,\n\n561\n00:23:48.820 --> 00:23:51.380\nand we had to grow once travel came back.\n\n562\n00:23:51.380 --> 00:23:53.540\nSo we've had 40,000 new team members\n\n563\n00:23:53.540 --> 00:23:55.500\njust over the last several years.\n\n564\n00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:57.020\nAnd so getting them into the culture\n\n565\n00:23:57.020 --> 00:23:59.380\nis something we've been spending a lot of time in.\n\n566\n00:23:59.380 --> 00:24:00.660\nBut the next step in our journey\n\n567\n00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.420\nis growing our international business.\n\n568\n00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:04.900\nAnd we do that with partners.\n\n569\n00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:06.540\nWe don't want to just do the flying ourselves.\n\n570\n00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:07.940\nSo we're investors.\n\n571\n00:24:07.940 --> 00:24:11.100\nWe own stakes in Air France and KLM\n\n572\n00:24:11.100 --> 00:24:14.380\nand Virgin Atlantic and Korean Air and Aeromexico\n\n573\n00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:15.820\nand the TAM and several others\n\n574\n00:24:15.820 --> 00:24:18.940\nso that we continue to grow the larger ecosystem\n\n575\n00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:21.260\nand getting our people comfortable\n\n576\n00:24:21.260 --> 00:24:24.180\nto travel on an international basis.\n\n577\n00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:26.060\n'Cause international travel is very different\n\n578\n00:24:26.060 --> 00:24:27.580\nthan domestic travel.\n\n579\n00:24:27.580 --> 00:24:29.740\nAnd that's where the value creation\n\n580\n00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:31.140\nis gonna come up in time.\n\n581\n00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:34.020\n- You know, Ed, one of the things that I've heard you talk\n\n582\n00:24:34.020 --> 00:24:37.060\nabout one quality that you look for in people you hire,\n\n583\n00:24:37.060 --> 00:24:39.780\nyou talk about this heart of service.\n\n584\n00:24:39.780 --> 00:24:40.740\nSay more.\n\n585\n00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:42.700\n- Well, you know, when we interview people,\n\n586\n00:24:42.700 --> 00:24:47.540\nI appreciate there's a lot of technical aspects to this job.\n\n587\n00:24:47.540 --> 00:24:50.460\nWe can teach you how to be a pilot.\n\n588\n00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:52.820\nWe can teach you how to fix a plane.\n\n589\n00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:54.940\nWe can teach you how to print a boarding pass,\n\n590\n00:24:54.940 --> 00:24:56.220\nwhatever it is.\n\n591\n00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:59.540\nThe one thing you can't teach is a heart.\n\n592\n00:24:59.540 --> 00:25:03.140\nEither you have a heart of service or you don't.\n\n593\n00:25:03.140 --> 00:25:06.060\nAnd what I'd like love to do when I interview people\n\n594\n00:25:06.060 --> 00:25:07.900\nand we talk to people coming into the business\n\n595\n00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:09.860\nis understand how they've demonstrated that\n\n596\n00:25:09.860 --> 00:25:12.940\nin their past careers.\n\n597\n00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:16.860\nSo I believe you can have the highest level proficiency\n\n598\n00:25:16.860 --> 00:25:20.580\nin technical depth, but it's your service\n\n599\n00:25:20.580 --> 00:25:24.020\nthat will set you apart, your heart for service.\n\n600\n00:25:24.020 --> 00:25:27.300\nThat's the thing that I think just kind of feeds that culture.\n\n601\n00:25:27.300 --> 00:25:29.860\nIt's putting that servant leadership\n\n602\n00:25:29.860 --> 00:25:33.860\nright into the middle of the requirements.\n\n603\n00:25:33.860 --> 00:25:35.820\n- You obviously have this great appreciation\n\n604\n00:25:35.820 --> 00:25:38.700\nfor people and you recognize them.\n\n605\n00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:42.460\nHow do you think about recognition on a day-to-day basis?\n\n606\n00:25:42.460 --> 00:25:45.380\nHow much of a part of that is the way you lead?\n\n607\n00:25:45.380 --> 00:25:48.420\n- Oh, I spent a lot of time with my people\n\n608\n00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:50.420\nand I take lots of selfies.\n\n609\n00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:52.540\nI take, you know, I mean,\n\n610\n00:25:52.540 --> 00:25:54.020\nyou don't want to be in an airplane with me\n\n611\n00:25:54.020 --> 00:25:56.940\nbecause our customers and employees all know who I am.\n\n612\n00:25:56.940 --> 00:26:00.140\nAnd I spend time just kind of roaming the plane\n\n613\n00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:01.860\nand in the galley and in the cockpit\n\n614\n00:26:01.860 --> 00:26:03.500\nand spending time with people,\n\n615\n00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:05.540\njust trying to understand them better\n\n616\n00:26:05.540 --> 00:26:08.500\nand what we can continue to do to take good care of them.\n\n617\n00:26:08.500 --> 00:26:10.940\nOver time, and I do it, I travel almost every day\n\n618\n00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:14.820\nand I'm on a plane somewhere and doing something in community.\n\n619\n00:26:14.820 --> 00:26:18.260\nYou'd be surprised to have even with 100,000 employees.\n\n620\n00:26:18.260 --> 00:26:21.460\nMore often than not, I've already met the individual\n\n621\n00:26:21.460 --> 00:26:24.180\nAO before and they'll say,\n\n622\n00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:25.300\n\"Hey, I want to show you something.\"\n\n623\n00:26:25.300 --> 00:26:27.540\nIt'll be a picture I took with them 12 years ago\n\n624\n00:26:27.540 --> 00:26:29.940\nor they're marked by the fact that they get a chance\n\n625\n00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:33.300\nto spend some personal time with the CEO.\n\n626\n00:26:33.300 --> 00:26:35.460\nAnd, you know, some people kind of show me,\n\n627\n00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:36.860\nwe take eight pictures together\n\n628\n00:26:36.860 --> 00:26:39.620\nand they want to show you all the pictures.\n\n629\n00:26:39.620 --> 00:26:41.820\nWhat it tells me is that, you know,\n\n630\n00:26:41.820 --> 00:26:43.580\nhow important these roles are, you know,\n\n631\n00:26:43.580 --> 00:26:45.340\nthat they may never get a chance.\n\n632\n00:26:45.340 --> 00:26:47.060\nIn fact, a lot of people say,\n\n633\n00:26:47.060 --> 00:26:50.220\nyou know, I've never met the CEO of my company before\n\n634\n00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:54.700\nand I've been here 30 years and it's great to finally meet you\n\n635\n00:26:54.700 --> 00:26:56.780\nor meet whoever that individual is.\n\n636\n00:26:56.780 --> 00:26:57.660\nThey'll tell people.\n\n637\n00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:00.180\nAnd so that impression that you make\n\n638\n00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:01.980\nevery single time is critical.\n\n639\n00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:05.660\nIt's important, you know, their form of opinion on you.\n\n640\n00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:07.700\nThat's their moment of choice.\n\n641\n00:27:07.700 --> 00:27:10.500\nAnd no matter what your reputation is,\n\n642\n00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:13.140\nthey'll get a chance to make their own decision about you.\n\n643\n00:27:13.140 --> 00:27:15.060\nOne of the things that my predecessor told me\n\n644\n00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:17.620\nwhen I took the job, David, was that I was too public.\n\n645\n00:27:17.620 --> 00:27:21.220\nI needed to close myself a bit off.\n\n646\n00:27:21.220 --> 00:27:23.140\nI needed to get a private email.\n\n647\n00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:26.180\nI needed to get a private phone and text\n\n648\n00:27:26.180 --> 00:27:27.900\nso that people can't reach me.\n\n649\n00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:32.180\n'Cause I only have one email and one cell phone\n\n650\n00:27:32.180 --> 00:27:34.700\nand I'll walk around with any kind of hidden identity.\n\n651\n00:27:34.700 --> 00:27:35.820\nAnd I said, thank you very much,\n\n652\n00:27:35.820 --> 00:27:38.420\nbut I never deployed that, his recommendation.\n\n653\n00:27:38.420 --> 00:27:41.580\nBecause I want people to be able to reach me\n\n654\n00:27:41.580 --> 00:27:44.700\nand I get hundreds if not thousands of emails a day.\n\n655\n00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:46.820\nAnd I have no, they all go to the same device.\n\n656\n00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:48.140\nThey all go to me.\n\n657\n00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:50.740\nMy, I've got a team that sits behind me\n\n658\n00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:53.580\nthat can help, helps me take care of getting people\n\n659\n00:27:53.580 --> 00:27:54.500\nwhere they need to go.\n\n660\n00:27:54.500 --> 00:27:56.660\nAnd, you know, somebody needs help with something.\n\n661\n00:27:56.660 --> 00:28:00.100\nI tell them, just email me and it's really easy to find.\n\n662\n00:28:00.100 --> 00:28:01.900\nWhat that has done is it's allowed,\n\n663\n00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:03.580\nit's not just customers, it's employees,\n\n664\n00:28:03.580 --> 00:28:06.060\nit's people in the community to feel that, you know,\n\n665\n00:28:06.060 --> 00:28:09.260\nthere's someone that they could talk to at any point in time\n\n666\n00:28:09.260 --> 00:28:12.700\nand get a response, that people really do care\n\n667\n00:28:12.700 --> 00:28:16.980\nabout their relationship with you.\n\n668\n00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:21.660\nAnd that identity of accessibility is something that,\n\n669\n00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:23.940\nyou know, people are actually surprised\n\n670\n00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:26.860\nthat they can get that level of relationship.\n\n671\n00:28:26.860 --> 00:28:28.860\nAnd you know, sometimes it'll be on a Saturday afternoon\n\n672\n00:28:28.860 --> 00:28:30.700\nor a Sunday night and somebody will,\n\n673\n00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:33.180\nthey'll get a response back for me in maybe two minutes.\n\n674\n00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:35.340\n'Cause I don't like to see the stuff accumulate either.\n\n675\n00:28:35.340 --> 00:28:38.700\nAnd they say, this, you have an amazing AI agent\n\n676\n00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:40.440\nor a robot or somebody and I'll say,\n\n677\n00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:41.440\n\"No, no, it's me.\"\n\n678\n00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:43.500\nIt's out of board here.\n\n679\n00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:45.820\nI'm just trying to knock things out.\n\n680\n00:28:45.820 --> 00:28:48.660\nBut that builds the identity with people,\n\n681\n00:28:48.660 --> 00:28:49.780\nthat you're very involved.\n\n682\n00:28:49.780 --> 00:28:54.340\nAnd when I think about my role with so many things going on,\n\n683\n00:28:54.340 --> 00:28:57.140\nI can be pretty peaceful about it all.\n\n684\n00:28:57.140 --> 00:28:58.460\n'Cause I don't have to go hunting around,\n\n685\n00:28:58.460 --> 00:28:59.340\nseeing what's going on.\n\n686\n00:28:59.340 --> 00:29:02.260\nPeople tell me, you know, 24/7 what's happening.\n\n687\n00:29:02.260 --> 00:29:05.060\nAnd I'll find out many times before our leaders\n\n688\n00:29:05.060 --> 00:29:06.060\nwill find out what's going on.\n\n689\n00:29:06.060 --> 00:29:08.620\n'Cause I get them, my phone blows up.\n\n690\n00:29:08.620 --> 00:29:10.900\nFirst thing for the people being impacted.\n\n691\n00:29:10.900 --> 00:29:14.180\nSo it's an interesting way to use technology\n\n692\n00:29:14.180 --> 00:29:16.380\nto keep yourself engaged and in the game.\n\n693\n00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:19.740\n- And you know, you've been recognized yourself as well.\n\n694\n00:29:19.740 --> 00:29:22.780\nMany times and you always accepted on behalf of the team,\n\n695\n00:29:22.780 --> 00:29:23.980\nwhich I like that.\n\n696\n00:29:23.980 --> 00:29:27.540\nAnd you were recently announced as one of Time Magazine's\n\n697\n00:29:27.540 --> 00:29:30.380\nmost influential people 2025.\n\n698\n00:29:30.380 --> 00:29:32.100\nAnd as a part of the announcement, you know,\n\n699\n00:29:32.100 --> 00:29:37.100\nour friend Ken Chanal did a write up of you and he said,\n\n700\n00:29:37.100 --> 00:29:40.140\n\"While Ed is the epitome of the service leader,\n\n701\n00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:44.020\nmake no mistake, he is a tough-minded business executive.\"\n\n702\n00:29:44.020 --> 00:29:47.260\nTell me a story, Ed, when you demonstrated\n\n703\n00:29:47.260 --> 00:29:49.820\nthat tough-minded characteristic.\n\n704\n00:29:49.820 --> 00:29:53.180\n- Oh, I'll tell you a funny story about Ken, how's that?\n\n705\n00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:55.620\nSo Ken, Ken's a dear friend for,\n\n706\n00:29:55.620 --> 00:29:57.420\nas he is with you, for many, many years.\n\n707\n00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:00.220\nAnd American Express is our top partner.\n\n708\n00:30:00.220 --> 00:30:04.460\nWe, the credit card that the American Express has,\n\n709\n00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:07.980\nthe Delta credit card, that's the top performing card\n\n710\n00:30:07.980 --> 00:30:10.780\nAmerican Express has by a factor or two of any other card\n\n711\n00:30:10.780 --> 00:30:12.500\nin the entire AMX system.\n\n712\n00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:14.580\nIn fact, 10% of the worldwide buildings go through\n\n713\n00:30:14.580 --> 00:30:17.580\non the Delta American Express credit card.\n\n714\n00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:20.340\nSo it's huge, they pay us, so pay us this year,\n\n715\n00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:22.820\nabout $8 billion for that credit card.\n\n716\n00:30:22.820 --> 00:30:25.740\nThat's how big it is in the relationship.\n\n717\n00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:28.900\nWell, back when I mentioned we were struggling,\n\n718\n00:30:28.900 --> 00:30:31.660\nwe were having to go through bankruptcy.\n\n719\n00:30:31.660 --> 00:30:34.540\nI went to American Express 'cause I needed to raise some money\n\n720\n00:30:34.540 --> 00:30:36.140\nand they had invested in it, of course,\n\n721\n00:30:36.140 --> 00:30:39.100\nthe relation much, much smaller back then at that time.\n\n722\n00:30:39.100 --> 00:30:43.900\nAnd I went to Ken and I think Ken loaned us the last $500 million\n\n723\n00:30:43.900 --> 00:30:46.140\nthat we needed to do to put the business plan together\n\n724\n00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:49.740\nto eventually emerge 'cause they had a vested stake\n\n725\n00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:51.300\nin Delta surviving as well.\n\n726\n00:30:51.300 --> 00:30:53.900\nAbout five years after that, after we had come out\n\n727\n00:30:53.900 --> 00:30:56.340\nand repaid the loan and did everything,\n\n728\n00:30:56.340 --> 00:30:59.700\nwe had a big leadership meeting and we invited Ken\n\n729\n00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:01.500\nto come in and speak at the meeting.\n\n730\n00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:03.900\nAnd he did a great job as he always does.\n\n731\n00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:07.060\nAnd after he got done, I got up and spoke.\n\n732\n00:31:07.060 --> 00:31:11.660\nAnd I thank Ken and told him that he's an amazing partner,\n\n733\n00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:13.300\ngreat, great leader.\n\n734\n00:31:13.300 --> 00:31:15.780\nBut the thing I'll always remember about Ken\n\n735\n00:31:15.780 --> 00:31:18.220\nis that $500 million that you loaned us, Ken,\n\n736\n00:31:18.220 --> 00:31:21.100\nand Ken said, \"Yeah, yeah, I put myself out there for you.\"\n\n737\n00:31:21.100 --> 00:31:23.500\nAnd said, \"You charge us 14% for that money.\n\n738\n00:31:23.500 --> 00:31:25.860\n\"I'm gonna make sure we get that 14% back for you\n\n739\n00:31:25.860 --> 00:31:27.260\n\"for many times over.\"\n\n740\n00:31:27.260 --> 00:31:30.380\nAnd you think about how we've grown our relationship,\n\n741\n00:31:30.380 --> 00:31:31.460\nwe certainly have.\n\n742\n00:31:31.460 --> 00:31:35.100\nSo, you know, businesses, it's competition,\n\n743\n00:31:35.100 --> 00:31:37.180\nit's good competition and you have fun with friends\n\n744\n00:31:37.180 --> 00:31:39.580\nand he laughed and we all laugh.\n\n745\n00:31:39.580 --> 00:31:41.980\nBut yeah, I'll never forget Ken charged me 14%\n\n746\n00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:43.340\nas we were on our deathbed.\n\n747\n00:31:43.340 --> 00:31:44.580\n- Just a few minutes ago,\n\n748\n00:31:44.580 --> 00:31:48.860\nyou talked about the power of having this open email.\n\n749\n00:31:48.860 --> 00:31:51.780\nDo you have a story of the best feedback\n\n750\n00:31:51.780 --> 00:31:54.020\nyou ever received from a customer\n\n751\n00:31:54.020 --> 00:31:56.740\nthat led to a good idea?\n\n752\n00:31:56.740 --> 00:31:59.180\n- Oh, I get feedback all the time.\n\n753\n00:31:59.180 --> 00:32:02.620\nThe best feedback I get and I get it every single day\n\n754\n00:32:02.620 --> 00:32:05.580\nis they catch our employees in action\n\n755\n00:32:05.580 --> 00:32:08.260\ndoing amazing, heroic work.\n\n756\n00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:10.860\nAnd they know they can reach me.\n\n757\n00:32:10.860 --> 00:32:15.860\nSo, you can go on our website and fill out a form\n\n758\n00:32:15.860 --> 00:32:18.180\nto give a compliment to an employee\n\n759\n00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:22.140\nor you can give him a card or kind of an attaboy type thing.\n\n760\n00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:24.620\nBut those that are really in the know,\n\n761\n00:32:24.620 --> 00:32:27.020\nrealize just to email me and I'll personally thank\n\n762\n00:32:27.020 --> 00:32:29.940\nthe individual and there's so many,\n\n763\n00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:34.940\nsome of those people get credit through those vehicles.\n\n764\n00:32:34.940 --> 00:32:37.580\nBut I'll hear stories about,\n\n765\n00:32:37.580 --> 00:32:40.180\npeople's lives being changed by our people\n\n766\n00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:43.180\nin terms of just their ability to make certain\n\n767\n00:32:43.180 --> 00:32:48.180\nthat whether somebody lost a really important possession\n\n768\n00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:52.020\non a plane and a mechanical three days later\n\n769\n00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:53.220\nhave taken a seat apart,\n\n770\n00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:54.620\nstill trying to find this thing\n\n771\n00:32:54.620 --> 00:32:57.820\nand they'll recover something that employees\n\n772\n00:32:57.820 --> 00:32:59.740\nlike a wedding ring or something,\n\n773\n00:32:59.740 --> 00:33:04.060\namazing value or how we've created connections\n\n774\n00:33:04.060 --> 00:33:06.380\nfor people that have become lifelong friends\n\n775\n00:33:06.380 --> 00:33:08.740\nor I can't tell you how many marriages\n\n776\n00:33:08.740 --> 00:33:12.540\nand wedding proposals and people that met on Delta property\n\n777\n00:33:12.540 --> 00:33:16.860\nor Delta flights, you know, wanna emanate it from that.\n\n778\n00:33:16.860 --> 00:33:18.940\nI get lots of ideas, as you said,\n\n779\n00:33:18.940 --> 00:33:21.620\nI mean, ideas about how to board,\n\n780\n00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:23.500\nwhat food to serve on the planes.\n\n781\n00:33:23.500 --> 00:33:26.180\nI know you're in the business of restaurants.\n\n782\n00:33:26.180 --> 00:33:28.580\nI think we're one of the largest restaurants in the world.\n\n783\n00:33:28.580 --> 00:33:30.820\nWe serve 200 million people a year\n\n784\n00:33:30.820 --> 00:33:32.860\nin our little restaurant.\n\n785\n00:33:33.860 --> 00:33:37.260\nIt's helping our languages and all the places.\n\n786\n00:33:37.260 --> 00:33:39.100\nA lot of our business travelers or road warriors\n\n787\n00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:40.260\nare on the road every week\n\n788\n00:33:40.260 --> 00:33:41.900\nand they're always telling me or asking me,\n\n789\n00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:44.140\n\"Why can't we board this way or that way?\"\n\n790\n00:33:44.140 --> 00:33:46.820\nSo I get a lot of great, great feedback.\n\n791\n00:33:46.820 --> 00:33:48.740\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation\n\n792\n00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:50.860\nwith Ed Bastian in just a moment.\n\n793\n00:33:50.860 --> 00:33:53.620\nNow, as you heard, Ed's got some great stories\n\n794\n00:33:53.620 --> 00:33:56.540\nabout Ken Chanel, the former chairman and CEO\n\n795\n00:33:56.540 --> 00:33:58.180\nof American Express.\n\n796\n00:33:58.180 --> 00:33:59.740\nKen was kind enough to join me\n\n797\n00:33:59.740 --> 00:34:01.540\non a How Leaders Lead podcast\n\n798\n00:34:01.540 --> 00:34:03.980\nwhere he shared some of my favorite insights\n\n799\n00:34:03.980 --> 00:34:07.620\nabout the importance of feedback for leaders.\n\n800\n00:34:07.620 --> 00:34:11.660\n- One of the things that I talk to founders about\n\n801\n00:34:11.660 --> 00:34:15.620\nvery directly is eliciting\n\n802\n00:34:15.620 --> 00:34:19.180\nand receiving direct feedback.\n\n803\n00:34:19.180 --> 00:34:21.740\nAnd so this concept that I used in management\n\n804\n00:34:21.740 --> 00:34:26.180\nof constructive confrontation, do it respectfully,\n\n805\n00:34:26.180 --> 00:34:28.540\nbut at the end of the day, what you want with your people\n\n806\n00:34:28.540 --> 00:34:30.380\nand what you're gonna get with me\n\n807\n00:34:30.380 --> 00:34:33.140\nis I'm gonna tell you how I feel,\n\n808\n00:34:33.140 --> 00:34:36.340\nwhat my concerns are, what areas you need to develop.\n\n809\n00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:38.020\nLet's talk about it.\n\n810\n00:34:38.020 --> 00:34:39.780\nBut then let's put a game plan together\n\n811\n00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:42.140\nbecause one of the things that's important\n\n812\n00:34:42.140 --> 00:34:45.260\nthat I really stress to founders or anyone\n\n813\n00:34:45.260 --> 00:34:48.740\nthat I'm mentoring is we're all judged by our actions.\n\n814\n00:34:48.740 --> 00:34:51.060\nAnd so take me through the outcomes,\n\n815\n00:34:51.060 --> 00:34:53.340\nbehaviors that you engage in.\n\n816\n00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:55.060\nLet's understand what the impacts are.\n\n817\n00:34:55.060 --> 00:34:57.380\nLet's understand what the results are\n\n818\n00:34:57.380 --> 00:34:59.980\nbecause we all gotta be outcome driven,\n\n819\n00:34:59.980 --> 00:35:02.140\nbut again, if we wanna do something\n\n820\n00:35:02.140 --> 00:35:04.260\nthat's really lasting and meaningful,\n\n821\n00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:07.820\nit's gotta be motivated by values and principles.\n\n822\n00:35:07.820 --> 00:35:10.260\n- So catch my entire conversation with Ken,\n\n823\n00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:13.700\nepisode 68 here on How Leaders Lead.\n\n824\n00:35:13.700 --> 00:35:16.420\n- You know, you managed Delta\n\n825\n00:35:16.420 --> 00:35:19.900\nthrough one of the toughest times\n\n826\n00:35:19.900 --> 00:35:23.180\nin the airline industry level phase with COVID.\n\n827\n00:35:23.180 --> 00:35:25.260\nBut before we talk about that,\n\n828\n00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:29.140\nI understand a few weeks prior to COVID,\n\n829\n00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:30.740\nyour mother passed away.\n\n830\n00:35:30.740 --> 00:35:33.420\nYou know, when life happens like that,\n\n831\n00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:37.100\nand you know, I know how tough that is myself, you know?\n\n832\n00:35:37.100 --> 00:35:40.460\nAnd when you have so much responsibility at work, Ed,\n\n833\n00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:42.460\nhow do you manage that?\n\n834\n00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:45.380\n- That was tough.\n\n835\n00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:47.380\nI think we all have our own COVID, you know,\n\n836\n00:35:47.380 --> 00:35:51.340\nrecollections as to the craziness that was going on.\n\n837\n00:35:51.340 --> 00:35:54.300\n2019 for Delta was our best year in our history.\n\n838\n00:35:54.300 --> 00:35:56.900\nI think it was the best year any airline it ever had.\n\n839\n00:35:56.900 --> 00:35:59.780\nSo we were at the highest of heights.\n\n840\n00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:03.740\nThen when it hit in February of that year,\n\n841\n00:36:03.740 --> 00:36:06.820\npeople started to figure out something was going wrong.\n\n842\n00:36:06.820 --> 00:36:11.820\nMy mother had somewhat shockingly mysteriously died.\n\n843\n00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:15.780\nAnd she had an infection and she went to the hospital\n\n844\n00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:18.860\nand a couple of weeks later, she was gone.\n\n845\n00:36:18.860 --> 00:36:20.860\nAnd she had been in great health to that point.\n\n846\n00:36:20.860 --> 00:36:22.300\nAnd my mom was my role model,\n\n847\n00:36:22.300 --> 00:36:23.900\nand my dad died very, very young.\n\n848\n00:36:25.220 --> 00:36:28.540\nAnd so she raised the nine kids and she was something,\n\n849\n00:36:28.540 --> 00:36:31.780\nsomeone that was always my rock.\n\n850\n00:36:31.780 --> 00:36:35.180\nThen a week later, right after we buried her,\n\n851\n00:36:35.180 --> 00:36:40.100\nyou know, COVID pandemic was declared\n\n852\n00:36:40.100 --> 00:36:42.820\nand all of our revenue went away, all of our business.\n\n853\n00:36:42.820 --> 00:36:45.100\nIn fact, we not only had no revenues,\n\n854\n00:36:45.100 --> 00:36:46.180\nwe were negative revenues\n\n855\n00:36:46.180 --> 00:36:49.740\n'cause people had deposits that we had refund monies,\n\n856\n00:36:49.740 --> 00:36:51.100\nyou know, for trips.\n\n857\n00:36:51.100 --> 00:36:53.460\nWe had like six billion dollars on the books for trips\n\n858\n00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:55.740\npeople were to be taking into the spring and summer\n\n859\n00:36:55.740 --> 00:36:57.340\nthat they had put on deposit.\n\n860\n00:36:57.340 --> 00:36:59.300\nAnd these people wanted their money back.\n\n861\n00:36:59.300 --> 00:37:02.620\nI mean, so as a Christian man,\n\n862\n00:37:02.620 --> 00:37:05.580\nI really thought I was kind of jobing the Bible a little bit.\n\n863\n00:37:05.580 --> 00:37:06.820\nYou know, kind of lost my mom,\n\n864\n00:37:06.820 --> 00:37:08.980\nI lost my business, what's gonna come next?\n\n865\n00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:12.900\nAnd so what I did, David, is I gave myself about a week\n\n866\n00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:14.820\nto feel really sorry for myself.\n\n867\n00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:16.860\nI mean, I was like, for a few days,\n\n868\n00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:18.940\nI was just pretty, pretty depressed.\n\n869\n00:37:18.940 --> 00:37:20.820\nI came through that week at the end of it\n\n870\n00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.860\nand I spent a lot of time and thought and prayer\n\n871\n00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:23.980\nand other things.\n\n872\n00:37:23.980 --> 00:37:28.260\nAnd I realized, boy, this isn't a burden, this is a blessing.\n\n873\n00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:30.900\nI mean, in the 100 year history of Delta Airlines,\n\n874\n00:37:30.900 --> 00:37:32.500\nthere's never been a more important time\n\n875\n00:37:32.500 --> 00:37:34.060\nto be the CEO of this company.\n\n876\n00:37:34.060 --> 00:37:39.060\nNever, this will be the role that I'll make my life on,\n\n877\n00:37:39.060 --> 00:37:43.700\nmy career highlight of my life saving this company\n\n878\n00:37:43.700 --> 00:37:44.860\nand getting it through.\n\n879\n00:37:44.860 --> 00:37:48.860\nIt's a privilege, it wasn't a burden, it was a blessing.\n\n880\n00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:50.620\nI had to tell you, I did that pep talk\n\n881\n00:37:50.620 --> 00:37:52.620\nwith myself every day for a lot of days.\n\n882\n00:37:52.620 --> 00:37:55.900\nJust to remind myself of not just the responsibility\n\n883\n00:37:55.900 --> 00:37:57.860\nbut the opportunity that are born\n\n884\n00:37:57.860 --> 00:38:01.340\nand the tens of thousands of people that were counting\n\n885\n00:38:01.340 --> 00:38:03.220\non the decisions we were taking.\n\n886\n00:38:03.220 --> 00:38:06.260\nAnd I realized, boy, there's no other place I'd rather be\n\n887\n00:38:06.260 --> 00:38:08.340\nand in that job at that time.\n\n888\n00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:12.580\nAnd so, I had a moment, I had to kind of dig\n\n889\n00:38:12.580 --> 00:38:15.380\ninto my own humanity and be vulnerable\n\n890\n00:38:15.380 --> 00:38:17.460\nand realize when I got out the other side,\n\n891\n00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:20.300\nno, no, this is my time to stand up\n\n892\n00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:22.540\nand that's what my mom would've wanted me to do\n\n893\n00:38:22.540 --> 00:38:25.620\nand that's what my family needed\n\n894\n00:38:25.620 --> 00:38:28.260\nand that's my Delta family, 100,000 strong needed.\n\n895\n00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:30.860\n- You know, speaking of stepping up, Ed,\n\n896\n00:38:30.860 --> 00:38:33.940\nyou said this ambitious goal, not to furlough\n\n897\n00:38:33.940 --> 00:38:36.660\na single employee during COVID.\n\n898\n00:38:36.660 --> 00:38:39.500\nHow'd you get the entire company to rally behind that\n\n899\n00:38:39.500 --> 00:38:40.860\nand make it a reality?\n\n900\n00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:43.900\n'Cause that seems to me like one hell of a leadership task.\n\n901\n00:38:43.900 --> 00:38:46.540\n- Yeah, I thought it would be impossible.\n\n902\n00:38:46.540 --> 00:38:48.620\nYeah, we did a lot of these video things.\n\n903\n00:38:48.620 --> 00:38:52.900\nBack then, we had a video service meta,\n\n904\n00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:54.420\nor face back then, I guess,\n\n905\n00:38:54.420 --> 00:38:56.820\nthat's something that we use for internal trust.\n\n906\n00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:59.060\nSo fortunately, we had the communication vehicle\n\n907\n00:38:59.060 --> 00:39:01.740\nand I talk on that several times a week\n\n908\n00:39:01.740 --> 00:39:05.340\nto tens of thousands of people just for an hour a day,\n\n909\n00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:06.820\njust letting them know what was going on\n\n910\n00:39:06.820 --> 00:39:08.900\n'cause no one knew what was happening.\n\n911\n00:39:08.900 --> 00:39:10.100\nAnd people just needed to see you,\n\n912\n00:39:10.100 --> 00:39:11.940\nthey needed to look at your face,\n\n913\n00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:13.820\nthey needed to see how much, you know,\n\n914\n00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:15.780\nif you were comfortable, if you were confident,\n\n915\n00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:18.900\nif you were worried and it just vulnerability,\n\n916\n00:39:18.900 --> 00:39:20.620\nI think was one of the key things we all learned\n\n917\n00:39:20.620 --> 00:39:23.460\nduring COVID and that's where a connection was born.\n\n918\n00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:25.500\nAnd people can tell pretty quickly\n\n919\n00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:28.340\nif you were being true and straight with them or not.\n\n920\n00:39:28.340 --> 00:39:29.780\nAnd one day early on, I said,\n\n921\n00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:34.780\nI was thinking that day that boy, wouldn't it be amazing?\n\n922\n00:39:34.780 --> 00:39:37.100\nNow, all our revenue is gone.\n\n923\n00:39:37.100 --> 00:39:39.940\nIf we could get through this crisis\n\n924\n00:39:39.940 --> 00:39:41.500\nwithout furloughing a single person,\n\n925\n00:39:41.500 --> 00:39:44.100\nI basically set it out loud for the first time.\n\n926\n00:39:44.100 --> 00:39:46.460\nAnd like tens of thousands of people are hearing me say this\n\n927\n00:39:46.460 --> 00:39:49.460\nand I'm having this kind of open-ended conversation\n\n928\n00:39:49.460 --> 00:39:52.980\nwith myself and I said, you know, it's probably impossible,\n\n929\n00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:54.740\nbut why not try?\n\n930\n00:39:54.740 --> 00:39:57.220\nLet's see if there's any way to get this done.\n\n931\n00:39:57.220 --> 00:39:59.780\nAnd I had a few things going for me.\n\n932\n00:39:59.780 --> 00:40:00.980\nOne thing we haven't talked about\n\n933\n00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:02.460\nis how we reward our people.\n\n934\n00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:04.300\nOne of the things that Delta is famous for,\n\n935\n00:40:04.300 --> 00:40:07.660\nwe implemented 20 years ago, is a profit sharing arrangement\n\n936\n00:40:07.660 --> 00:40:12.020\nwhere 15% of the profits of our company go to our people\n\n937\n00:40:12.020 --> 00:40:15.260\nand the management doesn't participate in that.\n\n938\n00:40:15.260 --> 00:40:17.820\nThat's just all frontline people.\n\n939\n00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:20.780\nAnd the prior year, we just had the best year in our history\n\n940\n00:40:20.780 --> 00:40:24.100\nand we distributed, and we always just drove on Valentine's Day,\n\n941\n00:40:24.100 --> 00:40:28.420\nwe had distributed $1.7 billion to our people\n\n942\n00:40:28.420 --> 00:40:30.980\non that Valentine's Day, just the month earlier.\n\n943\n00:40:30.980 --> 00:40:32.500\nSo I knew they had money, right?\n\n944\n00:40:32.500 --> 00:40:33.900\nI knew there was money.\n\n945\n00:40:33.900 --> 00:40:35.660\nIt was like two months worth of pay.\n\n946\n00:40:35.660 --> 00:40:38.740\nAnd I knew a lot of people were nervous\n\n947\n00:40:38.740 --> 00:40:40.620\nabout being out in public and flying\n\n948\n00:40:40.620 --> 00:40:42.700\nand I knew people were a lot of people,\n\n949\n00:40:42.700 --> 00:40:43.860\nwhether it was their second job\n\n950\n00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:46.980\nor people that could take time off.\n\n951\n00:40:46.980 --> 00:40:48.980\nAnd I knew they kept saying,\n\n952\n00:40:48.980 --> 00:40:50.660\n\"What can we do for our company?\"\n\n953\n00:40:50.660 --> 00:40:54.380\nAnd I said, \"If you want to make this a reality,\n\n954\n00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:57.820\nwe need it as many of you to take time off without pay\n\n955\n00:40:57.820 --> 00:41:00.100\nfor as long as you could afford to.\"\n\n956\n00:41:00.100 --> 00:41:01.460\nWe kept their benefits alive\n\n957\n00:41:01.460 --> 00:41:04.140\nand we gave them some travel privileges.\n\n958\n00:41:04.140 --> 00:41:07.980\nAnd we had 50,000 people, more than half of the company\n\n959\n00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:12.700\nat the time, take up to a year or more off without pay.\n\n960\n00:41:12.700 --> 00:41:15.420\nAnd we grew this high, what people would consider\n\n961\n00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:17.060\nto be a fixed cost base.\n\n962\n00:41:17.060 --> 00:41:20.500\nWe shrunk it down to maybe half its size.\n\n963\n00:41:20.500 --> 00:41:22.900\nAnd then on top of that, we did a voluntary\n\n964\n00:41:22.900 --> 00:41:24.700\nretirement arrangement for people\n\n965\n00:41:24.700 --> 00:41:27.060\nthat were willing to go at that point.\n\n966\n00:41:27.060 --> 00:41:28.260\nAnd then we got down further.\n\n967\n00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:31.300\nSo we only have a third of our size within a few months.\n\n968\n00:41:31.300 --> 00:41:35.420\nAnd that's our people are our biggest cost.\n\n969\n00:41:35.420 --> 00:41:37.700\nIt's not fuel, it's not the planes, it's people.\n\n970\n00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:39.940\nIt's a heavy, heavy people business.\n\n971\n00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:42.780\nAnd our people did it for each other.\n\n972\n00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:46.300\nAnd as a result of that, people were so proud\n\n973\n00:41:46.300 --> 00:41:48.580\nof the fact that we didn't have to furlough.\n\n974\n00:41:48.580 --> 00:41:50.980\nEvery other airline in the world furlough\n\n975\n00:41:50.980 --> 00:41:54.140\ntens if not hundreds of thousands of people, we didn't.\n\n976\n00:41:54.140 --> 00:41:58.940\nAnd we wanted to make that a real point of differentiation.\n\n977\n00:41:58.940 --> 00:42:01.180\n- Yeah, and I love how you light up when you talk about that\n\n978\n00:42:01.180 --> 00:42:02.700\nbecause you have that pride too.\n\n979\n00:42:02.700 --> 00:42:05.580\nAnd that's such an amazing accomplishment.\n\n980\n00:42:05.580 --> 00:42:10.260\nAnd you worked your way through COVID very successfully.\n\n981\n00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:13.300\n- Can I tell you one other really quick story in COVID?\n\n982\n00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:14.620\n- Absolutely.\n\n983\n00:42:14.620 --> 00:42:18.100\n- So the other thing I did was we blocked the middle seats\n\n984\n00:42:18.100 --> 00:42:20.940\non our planes and we blocked them all through COVID.\n\n985\n00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:22.460\nAnd of course, the known is flying,\n\n986\n00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:23.740\nit's easy to block the middle seats,\n\n987\n00:42:23.740 --> 00:42:26.060\nbut when people started flying again,\n\n988\n00:42:26.060 --> 00:42:28.380\nbut they still weren't comfortable that COVID was over.\n\n989\n00:42:28.380 --> 00:42:29.580\nWe kept blocking the middle seats.\n\n990\n00:42:29.580 --> 00:42:32.140\nWe blocked the middle seats for up to two years.\n\n991\n00:42:32.140 --> 00:42:36.100\nAnd our brand just took off like a rocket ship.\n\n992\n00:42:36.100 --> 00:42:38.860\nOur brand was already on a cent and just took off\n\n993\n00:42:38.860 --> 00:42:40.700\nlike a rocket ship and customers still thank me\n\n994\n00:42:40.700 --> 00:42:43.260\nto this day, say, \"Hey, I didn't wanna have to travel.\n\n995\n00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:45.980\n\"I needed to get to the bedside of a loved one\n\n996\n00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:47.700\n\"or I had to do something for work.\"\n\n997\n00:42:47.700 --> 00:42:49.540\nDelta's the only airline that I fly\n\n998\n00:42:49.540 --> 00:42:52.020\nbecause all the other airlines started selling those mils\n\n999\n00:42:52.020 --> 00:42:54.460\nso you didn't sell either in first class\n\n1000\n00:42:54.460 --> 00:42:58.660\nor in the coach section of the airplane, playing the middle seats.\n\n1001\n00:42:58.660 --> 00:43:00.260\nAnd I always say, \"Thank you very much.\"\n\n1002\n00:43:00.260 --> 00:43:02.060\nBut the truth to that story is\n\n1003\n00:43:02.060 --> 00:43:03.740\nthe reason we blocked those middle seats,\n\n1004\n00:43:03.740 --> 00:43:05.100\nI had made that decision\n\n1005\n00:43:05.100 --> 00:43:08.460\n'cause I knew our own people didn't wanna work on a crowded plane\n\n1006\n00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:10.660\nanymore and our customers wanted to sit on a crowded plane.\n\n1007\n00:43:10.660 --> 00:43:12.420\nSo I really did it for our own people.\n\n1008\n00:43:12.420 --> 00:43:14.300\nSo when you talk about putting people first\n\n1009\n00:43:14.300 --> 00:43:16.300\nand having that people's interest in,\n\n1010\n00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:18.220\nyou know, COVID, we had to make these things up.\n\n1011\n00:43:18.220 --> 00:43:20.300\nYou know, we didn't have a playbook for any of this stuff\n\n1012\n00:43:20.300 --> 00:43:22.020\nas it was going on.\n\n1013\n00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:25.060\nThat brand still sits with us today,\n\n1014\n00:43:25.060 --> 00:43:27.820\nbut our people know the real reason we did it was for them.\n\n1015\n00:43:27.820 --> 00:43:30.020\n- You know, you're obviously a big believer\n\n1016\n00:43:30.020 --> 00:43:32.540\nif you do the right things, the right things happen\n\n1017\n00:43:32.540 --> 00:43:34.260\nand they certainly have happened for you.\n\n1018\n00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:39.260\nAnd post COVID, the travel industry is booming right now.\n\n1019\n00:43:39.260 --> 00:43:44.580\nAnd, you know, how are you taking advantage of this rebound period\n\n1020\n00:43:44.580 --> 00:43:46.060\nthat you're obviously in?\n\n1021\n00:43:46.060 --> 00:43:49.380\nBecause your results are pretty amazing.\n\n1022\n00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:51.620\n- We've grown, we've expanded.\n\n1023\n00:43:51.620 --> 00:43:54.620\nAll demographics are traveling.\n\n1024\n00:43:54.620 --> 00:43:59.140\nAll, you know, our younger people are traveling at levels\n\n1025\n00:43:59.140 --> 00:44:01.420\nnever before seen.\n\n1026\n00:44:01.420 --> 00:44:06.220\nThe Gen Z population actually has more wealth\n\n1027\n00:44:06.220 --> 00:44:09.260\nthan any of the previous generational cohorts.\n\n1028\n00:44:09.260 --> 00:44:11.300\nAnd they're using it on travel.\n\n1029\n00:44:11.300 --> 00:44:14.420\nBaby boomers, guys like ourselves are outgoing.\n\n1030\n00:44:14.420 --> 00:44:17.340\nSo many people were sitting home for a couple of years\n\n1031\n00:44:17.340 --> 00:44:19.620\nwondering whether they were ever gonna get out again\n\n1032\n00:44:19.620 --> 00:44:22.660\nand watching life, you know, pass them by.\n\n1033\n00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:25.100\nAnd whether you're older or younger, it did matter.\n\n1034\n00:44:25.100 --> 00:44:27.220\nI think COVID was a marking period for them.\n\n1035\n00:44:27.220 --> 00:44:30.660\nSo we're now in a period of, you know, with tariffs\n\n1036\n00:44:30.660 --> 00:44:34.060\nand all the economic uncertainty and questions\n\n1037\n00:44:34.060 --> 00:44:37.780\nabout a recession, a recession coming or not for our country.\n\n1038\n00:44:37.780 --> 00:44:41.420\nYet our people are traveling like crazy.\n\n1039\n00:44:41.420 --> 00:44:44.340\nAnd they're going internationally, they're going premium,\n\n1040\n00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:46.340\nthey're going on all the higher end products\n\n1041\n00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:47.340\nthat we have to offer.\n\n1042\n00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:49.580\nThey're selling out our credit card business\n\n1043\n00:44:49.580 --> 00:44:51.500\nand their expresses growing double digits.\n\n1044\n00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:55.060\nI think people are prioritizing where they spend their money\n\n1045\n00:44:55.060 --> 00:44:56.700\nand they're really not buying things,\n\n1046\n00:44:56.700 --> 00:44:58.220\nbut they're investing in themselves\n\n1047\n00:44:58.220 --> 00:45:01.540\nand they're going to Turkey and they're going to Australia\n\n1048\n00:45:01.540 --> 00:45:03.660\nand they're going to Riyadh and, you know,\n\n1049\n00:45:03.660 --> 00:45:06.940\nall the places in the world that they spent time\n\n1050\n00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:09.420\nand again, they're going younger, they're going older.\n\n1051\n00:45:09.420 --> 00:45:11.500\nAnd that's our business model is to connect\n\n1052\n00:45:11.500 --> 00:45:15.780\nand bring them to meet their life's life streams.\n\n1053\n00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:18.700\n- You know, this go-go environment\n\n1054\n00:45:18.700 --> 00:45:20.460\nthat you're in right now, you know,\n\n1055\n00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:23.340\nwhat do you see as your biggest leadership challenge?\n\n1056\n00:45:23.340 --> 00:45:26.380\n- Well, I think it's continuing to keep our people,\n\n1057\n00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:29.420\nyou know, kind of focused on every single day,\n\n1058\n00:45:29.420 --> 00:45:32.700\nyou know, that driving that great, that great example.\n\n1059\n00:45:32.700 --> 00:45:35.820\nYou know, we've been on top of our industry for a lot of years\n\n1060\n00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:38.020\nand I know all the other airlines are sick and tired\n\n1061\n00:45:38.020 --> 00:45:40.060\nabout hearing about Delta this and Delta that\n\n1062\n00:45:40.060 --> 00:45:41.940\nand they just can't wait to take us down\n\n1063\n00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:44.580\nand try to beat us and which I love\n\n1064\n00:45:44.580 --> 00:45:47.060\nbecause I'm a very competitive guy.\n\n1065\n00:45:47.060 --> 00:45:50.260\nBut what I want our people to always know is\n\n1066\n00:45:50.260 --> 00:45:52.340\nthat the most important thing is the awards,\n\n1067\n00:45:52.340 --> 00:45:54.180\nthe accolades are nice, but they don't,\n\n1068\n00:45:54.180 --> 00:45:55.460\nit's totally irrelevant.\n\n1069\n00:45:55.460 --> 00:45:58.540\nIt's really what you do today and tomorrow, that matters.\n\n1070\n00:45:58.540 --> 00:46:00.780\nAnd you got to go out and prove it and do it better\n\n1071\n00:46:00.780 --> 00:46:01.940\nevery single day.\n\n1072\n00:46:01.940 --> 00:46:03.140\nKeep climbing is our model.\n\n1073\n00:46:03.140 --> 00:46:04.940\nWe've been using it for years.\n\n1074\n00:46:04.940 --> 00:46:07.980\nAnd every single day we can make the world better.\n\n1075\n00:46:07.980 --> 00:46:11.100\nA number of years ago, my marketing team came to me\n\n1076\n00:46:11.100 --> 00:46:12.060\nand you'd love this story.\n\n1077\n00:46:12.060 --> 00:46:13.860\nAnd they said, you know, keep climbing.\n\n1078\n00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:15.980\nWe adopted that coming out of bankruptcy.\n\n1079\n00:46:15.980 --> 00:46:17.860\nAnd, you know, it was a great,\n\n1080\n00:46:17.860 --> 00:46:20.700\nit was a great honest statement about where we were,\n\n1081\n00:46:20.700 --> 00:46:22.140\nweren't very good, but stay with us,\n\n1082\n00:46:22.140 --> 00:46:24.020\nwe're going to get better and sure enough,\n\n1083\n00:46:24.020 --> 00:46:24.860\nwe've gotten better.\n\n1084\n00:46:24.860 --> 00:46:26.940\nThey wanted to come out with a new model,\n\n1085\n00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:29.460\na bolder statement about, you know,\n\n1086\n00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:31.060\nnot that we've arrived, but you know,\n\n1087\n00:46:31.060 --> 00:46:33.260\nthere's a different experience you should expect on Delta.\n\n1088\n00:46:33.260 --> 00:46:35.780\nAnd I said, thank you very much and threw them out\n\n1089\n00:46:35.780 --> 00:46:37.220\nand said, I'm never, never changing.\n\n1090\n00:46:37.220 --> 00:46:38.580\n'Cause keep climbing.\n\n1091\n00:46:38.580 --> 00:46:40.060\nIt's honest, it's humble.\n\n1092\n00:46:40.060 --> 00:46:43.740\nIt recognizes that we can always do better\n\n1093\n00:46:43.740 --> 00:46:44.900\nand we want to get better.\n\n1094\n00:46:44.900 --> 00:46:47.620\nAnd as long as I'm here, we're never taking that model off.\n\n1095\n00:46:47.620 --> 00:46:49.900\n- That's another great example of being tough minded.\n\n1096\n00:46:49.900 --> 00:46:51.460\nThat's a really good one right there.\n\n1097\n00:46:51.460 --> 00:46:56.260\nYou know, speaking of keep climbing, you know,\n\n1098\n00:46:56.260 --> 00:47:00.460\nhow are you sharpening your axis as a leader?\n\n1099\n00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:02.220\nI mean, what are you working on right now\n\n1100\n00:47:02.220 --> 00:47:05.780\nso that you become better and better?\n\n1101\n00:47:05.780 --> 00:47:07.420\n- Well, I think for myself personally,\n\n1102\n00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:09.380\n'cause I've been doing this for a while,\n\n1103\n00:47:09.380 --> 00:47:13.420\nyou know, I try to make certain that I continue to get fed.\n\n1104\n00:47:13.420 --> 00:47:14.340\nI continue to listen.\n\n1105\n00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:16.940\nI think listening is such an important part of leadership\n\n1106\n00:47:16.940 --> 00:47:19.580\nthat's understated, you know, as leaders.\n\n1107\n00:47:19.580 --> 00:47:23.100\nWe don't, you know, people look to us for direction\n\n1108\n00:47:23.100 --> 00:47:25.820\nor for vision or for guidance.\n\n1109\n00:47:25.820 --> 00:47:28.780\nAnd sometimes we can get almost to accustomed\n\n1110\n00:47:28.780 --> 00:47:31.660\nto given direction and not spending enough time,\n\n1111\n00:47:31.660 --> 00:47:33.180\nyou know, thinking and listening\n\n1112\n00:47:33.180 --> 00:47:36.340\nand taking in advice and being curious\n\n1113\n00:47:36.340 --> 00:47:39.980\nand kind of pushing the envelope a little bit differently.\n\n1114\n00:47:39.980 --> 00:47:44.140\nSo I'm trying to do my best to kind of keep my focus\n\n1115\n00:47:44.140 --> 00:47:47.860\non what I can learn, what we can learn as a team\n\n1116\n00:47:47.860 --> 00:47:49.140\nfrom so many different people.\n\n1117\n00:47:49.140 --> 00:47:52.460\nYou know, we're a very public facing business,\n\n1118\n00:47:52.460 --> 00:47:57.260\nmaking certain that we never really, you know, stop learning.\n\n1119\n00:47:57.260 --> 00:47:59.660\nAnd Morgan, I've been working with guy, you know,\n\n1120\n00:47:59.660 --> 00:48:02.180\nwell, Tom Brady and Tom's a good friend\n\n1121\n00:48:02.180 --> 00:48:04.660\nand been doing working together for a few years.\n\n1122\n00:48:04.660 --> 00:48:06.900\nSince he came out of the league,\n\n1123\n00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:08.940\nhe wanted to work with a company\n\n1124\n00:48:08.940 --> 00:48:10.940\nand he talked to a bunch of companies, he called me,\n\n1125\n00:48:10.940 --> 00:48:13.300\nhe said, \"I really want to do this with Delta.\"\n\n1126\n00:48:13.300 --> 00:48:15.300\nAnd that's what I wanted to do with him too\n\n1127\n00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:19.300\nbecause you think about who has excelled\n\n1128\n00:48:19.300 --> 00:48:22.620\nat the highest levels in the world consistently\n\n1129\n00:48:22.620 --> 00:48:24.860\nfor such a long duration period of time.\n\n1130\n00:48:24.860 --> 00:48:27.660\nAnd I wanted to hold him up as a leadership example\n\n1131\n00:48:27.660 --> 00:48:30.260\nfor our team to continue to get better.\n\n1132\n00:48:30.260 --> 00:48:32.500\nAnd, you know, one of the things that Tom has,\n\n1133\n00:48:32.500 --> 00:48:35.980\nand you know this, he's incredibly humble,\n\n1134\n00:48:35.980 --> 00:48:37.820\neven though he's confident, he's still humble,\n\n1135\n00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:40.260\nhe wants to learn and he's curious.\n\n1136\n00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.020\nAnd he's always prepared.\n\n1137\n00:48:42.020 --> 00:48:45.460\nAnd, you know, every single day is a new opportunity\n\n1138\n00:48:45.460 --> 00:48:46.980\ntexted me this morning on some things\n\n1139\n00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:48.740\nhe was thinking about for us.\n\n1140\n00:48:48.740 --> 00:48:50.860\nAnd that's what we have to be.\n\n1141\n00:48:50.860 --> 00:48:52.900\nYou know, we can never get accustomed\n\n1142\n00:48:52.900 --> 00:48:54.020\nto the seats that we're in.\n\n1143\n00:48:54.020 --> 00:48:55.780\nWe have to go continue finding a way\n\n1144\n00:48:55.780 --> 00:48:58.220\nto make that seat better for somebody else.\n\n1145\n00:48:58.220 --> 00:48:59.060\n- That's great.\n\n1146\n00:48:59.060 --> 00:49:00.820\nYou know, this has been so much fun, Ed.\n\n1147\n00:49:00.820 --> 00:49:02.900\nAnd I want to have a little bit more with you.\n\n1148\n00:49:02.900 --> 00:49:04.660\nI have this lightning round of questions.\n\n1149\n00:49:04.660 --> 00:49:05.820\nSo are you ready for this?\n\n1150\n00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:06.660\n- Yeah, I'm ready.\n\n1151\n00:49:06.660 --> 00:49:07.740\n- Okay.\n\n1152\n00:49:07.740 --> 00:49:09.700\nThe three words that best describe you.\n\n1153\n00:49:09.700 --> 00:49:12.780\nPeople, service, and spirit.\n\n1154\n00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:14.580\n- If you could be one person for a day\n\n1155\n00:49:14.580 --> 00:49:16.460\nbeside yourself, who would it be?\n\n1156\n00:49:16.460 --> 00:49:18.300\n- Well, I'll tell you, growing up who I'd want it to be,\n\n1157\n00:49:18.300 --> 00:49:19.860\nI want it to be Mickey Mantle.\n\n1158\n00:49:19.860 --> 00:49:20.780\n- Me too.\n\n1159\n00:49:20.780 --> 00:49:22.620\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n1160\n00:49:22.620 --> 00:49:24.380\n- Of noxious behaviors.\n\n1161\n00:49:24.380 --> 00:49:25.820\n- Who would play you in a movie?\n\n1162\n00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:27.300\n- Well, it's funny.\n\n1163\n00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:29.740\nSo Will Ferrell just came out with a new movie.\n\n1164\n00:49:29.740 --> 00:49:33.220\nAnd at the closing scene of the movie,\n\n1165\n00:49:33.220 --> 00:49:35.380\nhe was with some woman and she said,\n\n1166\n00:49:35.380 --> 00:49:36.380\ndo you actually have a job?\n\n1167\n00:49:36.380 --> 00:49:38.820\nHe says, yeah, I'm the CEO of Delta Airlines.\n\n1168\n00:49:38.820 --> 00:49:39.860\n(laughs)\n\n1169\n00:49:39.860 --> 00:49:41.540\n- So it'd have to be Will Ferrell.\n\n1170\n00:49:41.540 --> 00:49:44.260\n- Imagine you're going on a trip,\n\n1171\n00:49:44.260 --> 00:49:45.620\nbut all you get to take with you\n\n1172\n00:49:45.620 --> 00:49:48.100\nis what you can fit in your pillowcase.\n\n1173\n00:49:48.100 --> 00:49:49.620\nWhat's going inside?\n\n1174\n00:49:49.620 --> 00:49:51.820\n- Oh, I used to do that from my, that's my mom,\n\n1175\n00:49:51.820 --> 00:49:52.980\n'cause you have grown up with nine kids,\n\n1176\n00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:55.980\nwe go to Florida and our station wagon,\n\n1177\n00:49:55.980 --> 00:49:57.700\nand all you could bring was what your plug is.\n\n1178\n00:49:57.700 --> 00:49:59.140\nI have a lot of experience there.\n\n1179\n00:49:59.140 --> 00:50:03.820\nI'd bring probably some comfortable clothes,\n\n1180\n00:50:03.820 --> 00:50:06.340\nmaybe something that could golf in,\n\n1181\n00:50:06.340 --> 00:50:08.860\nsome golf shoes and some running shoes.\n\n1182\n00:50:08.860 --> 00:50:12.500\nAnd I just, I'd wanna make sure I was going someplace warm.\n\n1183\n00:50:12.500 --> 00:50:13.660\n(laughs)\n\n1184\n00:50:13.660 --> 00:50:16.060\n- What was the hardest thing for a New York kid\n\n1185\n00:50:16.060 --> 00:50:17.700\nto learn about life in the South?\n\n1186\n00:50:17.700 --> 00:50:18.980\n- For them to understand me.\n\n1187\n00:50:18.980 --> 00:50:20.340\n(laughs)\n\n1188\n00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:23.540\n- What's the learning, learning how to say y'all?\n\n1189\n00:50:23.540 --> 00:50:25.820\n- What's the one thing you do just for you?\n\n1190\n00:50:25.820 --> 00:50:29.420\n- Each morning, when I wake up, I spend about 15 minutes\n\n1191\n00:50:29.420 --> 00:50:31.620\nin trying to try and just isolate,\n\n1192\n00:50:31.620 --> 00:50:34.700\nand that's my reflection time.\n\n1193\n00:50:34.700 --> 00:50:37.740\n- Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?\n\n1194\n00:50:37.740 --> 00:50:41.100\n- The Atlanta Braves gave me World Series Ring\n\n1195\n00:50:41.100 --> 00:50:42.740\na few years ago when they won the World Series.\n\n1196\n00:50:42.740 --> 00:50:44.980\n- And that ring, I've seen it from Terry McGurk,\n\n1197\n00:50:44.980 --> 00:50:47.980\nthat's got some bling to it, no question about that.\n\n1198\n00:50:47.980 --> 00:50:51.140\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1199\n00:50:51.140 --> 00:50:53.060\n- You'd hear classic rock.\n\n1200\n00:50:53.060 --> 00:50:55.500\n- What's something about you few people would know?\n\n1201\n00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:59.660\n- When I was my early years at Price Waterhouse,\n\n1202\n00:50:59.660 --> 00:51:02.900\nI was an auditor, but you know, the award shows\n\n1203\n00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:05.700\nthat people would come out on, MTV,\n\n1204\n00:51:05.700 --> 00:51:08.380\nused to have the video music awards, the VMAs,\n\n1205\n00:51:08.380 --> 00:51:10.060\nand there was an account and that would come out\n\n1206\n00:51:10.060 --> 00:51:12.220\nwith a balance, I was the account with a balance.\n\n1207\n00:51:12.220 --> 00:51:13.060\n- Trust up in the talk.\n\n1208\n00:51:13.060 --> 00:51:14.700\n- From out of MTV, I love it.\n\n1209\n00:51:14.700 --> 00:51:17.140\n- And I'd be given out the balloting\n\n1210\n00:51:17.140 --> 00:51:19.980\nto the great stories there.\n\n1211\n00:51:19.980 --> 00:51:21.060\n- Well, that's the end of the light,\n\n1212\n00:51:21.060 --> 00:51:22.220\nyou're around, great job Ed.\n\n1213\n00:51:22.220 --> 00:51:24.220\nJust a few more questions, I'm gonna let you go.\n\n1214\n00:51:24.220 --> 00:51:25.900\nEd, you have four kids.\n\n1215\n00:51:25.900 --> 00:51:27.780\nYou know, how do you lead at home?\n\n1216\n00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:29.380\n- Four something to wanna be, you know,\n\n1217\n00:51:29.380 --> 00:51:30.620\nanything that they don't wanna be.\n\n1218\n00:51:30.620 --> 00:51:34.260\nSo, and each of them are doing totally separate things,\n\n1219\n00:51:34.260 --> 00:51:35.260\nwhich I'm so proud of.\n\n1220\n00:51:35.260 --> 00:51:36.940\nI mean, none of them are following me\n\n1221\n00:51:36.940 --> 00:51:40.420\nin the airline businesses, which is great,\n\n1222\n00:51:40.420 --> 00:51:43.260\n'cause I didn't want necessarily that.\n\n1223\n00:51:43.260 --> 00:51:46.540\nI make certain, as busy as I am,\n\n1224\n00:51:46.540 --> 00:51:50.420\nthey all know that my most important job is to be dad\n\n1225\n00:51:50.420 --> 00:51:54.340\nand father, not as CEO.\n\n1226\n00:51:54.340 --> 00:51:56.900\nAnd you know, that comes in conflict a lot of times.\n\n1227\n00:51:56.900 --> 00:51:59.980\nYou gotta make trade-offs and it's hard.\n\n1228\n00:52:00.620 --> 00:52:03.500\nBut they all, we stay very, very close\n\n1229\n00:52:03.500 --> 00:52:06.380\nand technology allows us to do that easier than ever.\n\n1230\n00:52:06.380 --> 00:52:09.700\n- And I know your wife Deborah is a very close partner\n\n1231\n00:52:09.700 --> 00:52:13.180\nof yours, you know, how do you interact in the business\n\n1232\n00:52:13.180 --> 00:52:14.020\nor do you?\n\n1233\n00:52:14.020 --> 00:52:16.460\n- Oh, she's got more opinions than anybody.\n\n1234\n00:52:16.460 --> 00:52:17.460\n(laughing)\n\n1235\n00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:19.460\nI practice my listening skills when I'm home.\n\n1236\n00:52:19.460 --> 00:52:21.180\n(laughing)\n\n1237\n00:52:21.180 --> 00:52:22.460\n- That's good, that's good.\n\n1238\n00:52:22.460 --> 00:52:25.620\n- All right, Ed, when you look out, okay,\n\n1239\n00:52:25.620 --> 00:52:27.860\nwhat do you see as you're unfinished business?\n\n1240\n00:52:28.980 --> 00:52:31.700\n- Oh, I got a few more years to run here.\n\n1241\n00:52:31.700 --> 00:52:34.300\nAnd really what I want is, you know,\n\n1242\n00:52:34.300 --> 00:52:37.220\nwe're in a tough business, the airlines are tough.\n\n1243\n00:52:37.220 --> 00:52:40.860\nAnd they make progress and, you know,\n\n1244\n00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:45.420\nsome economic crisis or COVID or some war breaks out\n\n1245\n00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:47.660\nor some calamity occurs.\n\n1246\n00:52:47.660 --> 00:52:50.340\nAnd so, you know, the performance of the company\n\n1247\n00:52:50.340 --> 00:52:53.860\ncontinues to get better, but it's always up and down.\n\n1248\n00:52:53.860 --> 00:52:55.620\nThere's a lot of volatility.\n\n1249\n00:52:55.620 --> 00:52:58.340\nI want us to get to a place where we kind of\n\n1250\n00:52:58.340 --> 00:53:00.540\nimmune ourselves as best we can from the risks,\n\n1251\n00:53:00.540 --> 00:53:02.060\ngetting our debts paid off.\n\n1252\n00:53:02.060 --> 00:53:04.620\nWe still have some debt we want to get paid down\n\n1253\n00:53:04.620 --> 00:53:06.580\nand our balance sheet and say,\n\n1254\n00:53:06.580 --> 00:53:10.780\nI've left, you know, the top brand in the airline industry\n\n1255\n00:53:10.780 --> 00:53:14.740\nwith the fortress balance sheet that is unassailable\n\n1256\n00:53:14.740 --> 00:53:16.580\nand people with the greatest heart of service.\n\n1257\n00:53:16.580 --> 00:53:19.420\nI mean, that's, I mean, you're always working towards that,\n\n1258\n00:53:19.420 --> 00:53:21.820\nbut I think in the next few years, we can actually attain that.\n\n1259\n00:53:21.820 --> 00:53:23.340\n- Last question, Ed.\n\n1260\n00:53:23.340 --> 00:53:26.220\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone\n\n1261\n00:53:26.220 --> 00:53:27.540\nwho wants to be a better leader?\n\n1262\n00:53:27.540 --> 00:53:28.740\n- One piece of advice.\n\n1263\n00:53:28.740 --> 00:53:31.780\nYou know, it really, it's about the people\n\n1264\n00:53:31.780 --> 00:53:33.140\nyou surround yourself with.\n\n1265\n00:53:33.140 --> 00:53:35.820\nYou know, it's your mentors, it's your community.\n\n1266\n00:53:35.820 --> 00:53:38.860\nIt's, you know, just, you know, we all learned that as kids.\n\n1267\n00:53:38.860 --> 00:53:40.580\nMy parents always told us, you know,\n\n1268\n00:53:40.580 --> 00:53:42.660\nthe people you hang out with,\n\n1269\n00:53:42.660 --> 00:53:44.860\njust make sure those are people that lift you up\n\n1270\n00:53:44.860 --> 00:53:48.020\nand that that will bring you places you want to go.\n\n1271\n00:53:48.020 --> 00:53:49.100\n'Cause they're going to bring you places.\n\n1272\n00:53:49.100 --> 00:53:50.620\nYou may not want to land.\n\n1273\n00:53:50.620 --> 00:53:53.420\nAnd I remember as a young leader,\n\n1274\n00:53:53.420 --> 00:53:55.100\nI did a lot of reading on leadership.\n\n1275\n00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:57.220\nI always wanted to be, you know,\n\n1276\n00:53:57.220 --> 00:53:59.300\nI'd attend sessions sometimes.\n\n1277\n00:53:59.300 --> 00:54:02.540\nI'd always want to be a curious learner about leadership.\n\n1278\n00:54:02.540 --> 00:54:05.180\nAnd one of the great joys I've had in my life,\n\n1279\n00:54:05.180 --> 00:54:09.140\nI've met many of the leaders I used to grow up, you know,\n\n1280\n00:54:09.140 --> 00:54:13.220\nreading about and learning from and seeing, wow,\n\n1281\n00:54:13.220 --> 00:54:15.900\nI mean, they're humans after all, but, you know,\n\n1282\n00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:18.300\nbut, you know, just being able to relate to them.\n\n1283\n00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:20.140\nAnd, you know, just make a certain,\n\n1284\n00:54:20.140 --> 00:54:24.940\nyou're in a circle of your colleagues,\n\n1285\n00:54:24.940 --> 00:54:27.540\nof your community, your friends,\n\n1286\n00:54:27.540 --> 00:54:29.900\nwho take you places you want to go.\n\n1287\n00:54:29.900 --> 00:54:32.860\n- And Anna, I know that anyone that has the opportunity\n\n1288\n00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:35.740\nto be with you would consider it an honor.\n\n1289\n00:54:35.740 --> 00:54:37.500\nAnd they love hanging with you\n\n1290\n00:54:37.500 --> 00:54:40.100\nbecause the kind of leader you are, the kind of person you are,\n\n1291\n00:54:40.100 --> 00:54:44.420\nthe kind of father you are, and your passion for people.\n\n1292\n00:54:44.420 --> 00:54:47.100\nAnd I want to thank you so much for taking the time\n\n1293\n00:54:47.100 --> 00:54:49.420\nto be on how leaders lead with me.\n\n1294\n00:54:49.420 --> 00:54:52.420\nAnd for setting such a good example for all leaders,\n\n1295\n00:54:52.420 --> 00:54:55.060\nbecause I can tell from this conversation,\n\n1296\n00:54:55.060 --> 00:54:58.300\nthis is, you know, this is stuff that you believe\n\n1297\n00:54:58.300 --> 00:55:01.020\nwith your heart and soul, and you put it into practice.\n\n1298\n00:55:01.020 --> 00:55:02.420\nSo thank you very much. - Thank you, David.\n\n1299\n00:55:02.420 --> 00:55:05.540\nThe leadership is also about sharing, right?\n\n1300\n00:55:05.540 --> 00:55:08.780\nAnd it's about, you know, what we can do to grow\n\n1301\n00:55:08.780 --> 00:55:10.420\nour next generation of leaders.\n\n1302\n00:55:10.420 --> 00:55:14.380\nAnd that's the real testament for you, me, for others,\n\n1303\n00:55:14.380 --> 00:55:16.740\nthat, you know, it's what we leave behind.\n\n1304\n00:55:16.740 --> 00:55:18.020\nThat's really gonna make a difference.\n\n1305\n00:55:18.020 --> 00:55:18.860\n- Great.\n\n1306\n00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:19.700\nWell, thank you very much.\n\n1307\n00:55:19.700 --> 00:55:20.540\nAppreciate it.\n\n1308\n00:55:20.540 --> 00:55:22.780\n(silence)\n\n1309\n00:55:22.780 --> 00:55:29.460\nEd combined so many great qualities of a strong leader,\n\n1310\n00:55:29.460 --> 00:55:32.260\na tough-mindedness, a heart for people,\n\n1311\n00:55:32.260 --> 00:55:33.860\nand a humble spirit.\n\n1312\n00:55:33.860 --> 00:55:35.580\nI mean, with him at the helm,\n\n1313\n00:55:35.580 --> 00:55:38.860\nit's easy to see why delts as the industry leader.\n\n1314\n00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:42.460\nBut Ed knows that being the best isn't a finish line.\n\n1315\n00:55:42.460 --> 00:55:45.740\nIt's a standard you have to keep meeting day after day\n\n1316\n00:55:45.740 --> 00:55:48.300\nafter day, and that kind of consistency\n\n1317\n00:55:48.300 --> 00:55:50.340\ndoesn't happen by accident.\n\n1318\n00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:51.940\nIt takes focus.\n\n1319\n00:55:51.940 --> 00:55:53.820\nIt takes humility.\n\n1320\n00:55:53.820 --> 00:55:55.940\nAnd it takes a deep belief\n\n1321\n00:55:55.940 --> 00:55:58.740\nthat it's always possible to get better.\n\n1322\n00:55:58.740 --> 00:56:01.020\nSo here's something to try this week.\n\n1323\n00:56:01.020 --> 00:56:03.700\nLook at the areas where your team is winning right now\n\n1324\n00:56:03.700 --> 00:56:07.340\nand ask yourself, how do we keep the edge?\n\n1325\n00:56:07.340 --> 00:56:09.820\nHow do we keep getting better and better?\n\n1326\n00:56:09.820 --> 00:56:12.620\nBecause I hate to say it, but I know you'll agree with this\n\n1327\n00:56:12.620 --> 00:56:13.940\nif you think about it.\n\n1328\n00:56:13.940 --> 00:56:15.620\nIf you're not improving,\n\n1329\n00:56:15.620 --> 00:56:19.220\nyou're going to get beaten by someone who is.\n\n1330\n00:56:19.220 --> 00:56:21.100\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1331\n00:56:21.100 --> 00:56:23.100\nWhat we learned today is the great leaders\n\n1332\n00:56:23.100 --> 00:56:25.020\nnever stop improving.\n\n1333\n00:56:25.020 --> 00:56:28.380\nComing up next on How Leaders Lead is Andy Jassy,\n\n1334\n00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:30.780\nthe CEO of Amazon.\n\n1335\n00:56:30.780 --> 00:56:32.820\nSo be sure you subscribe on YouTube\n\n1336\n00:56:32.820 --> 00:56:34.500\nor wherever you get your podcast\n\n1337\n00:56:34.500 --> 00:56:35.860\nso that you don't miss it.\n\n1338\n00:56:35.860 --> 00:56:38.140\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode\n\n1339\n00:56:38.140 --> 00:56:40.180\nof How Leaders Lead, where every Thursday,\n\n1340\n00:56:40.180 --> 00:56:42.340\nyou get to listen in while I interview some\n\n1341\n00:56:42.340 --> 00:56:44.260\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1342\n00:56:44.260 --> 00:56:46.300\nI make it a point to give you something simple\n\n1343\n00:56:46.300 --> 00:56:49.700\non each episode that you can apply to your business\n\n1344\n00:56:49.700 --> 00:56:53.300\nso that you will become the very best leader you can be.\n","

Ed Bastian 0:00

The accolades are nice, but it's totally irrelevant. It's really what you do today and tomorrow that matters, and you got to go out and prove it and do it better every single day.

David Novak 0:17

Ever catch yourself coasting after a big win? If so you do not want to miss today's episode. Welcome to how leaders lead. I'm David Novak, and every week I have conversations with the very best leaders in the world to help you become the best leader that you can be. My guest today is Ed Bastian, the CEO of Delta Airlines. They've earned a reputation as the most awarded airline in the United States, and they've done it while serving more than 200 billion customers every single year. Ed himself has gotten some acclaim recently, having just been named one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people, right alongside Mark Zuckerberg and Snoop Dogg, no less. But here's what I love about it, the accolades really don't mean that much to him. In a super competitive industry like the airline business, you can't rest on that reputation. You've got to prove it again and again every single day, and that's how Ed goes to work every single day, and that mentality to never stop improving is something you got to have if you want to stay sharp and stay ahead. So here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours. Ed Bastian, you know,

when I was doing my research, I learned that you didn't get on a plane until you were 25 years old. Now you're running one of the world's biggest airlines, that's quite the journey. Yet. What do you remember about that very first flight? I got to ask you that I do remember.

Ed Bastian 1:55

I think everyone probably remembers their first first flight as a business trip from La Guardia to Chicago, O'Hare. I was, I was working, I was working for Price Waterhouse at the time, and my account was J Walter Thompson, one of the big ad agencies. Don't remember a whole lot about it, other than I was probably apprehensive and excited at the same time, and going on your first trip as a business individual, and I think I was going by myself too, so it was pretty cool.

David Novak 2:25

Yeah, I know what that's like, because I didn't go on a plane until I was out of college, too. So that's really funny, you know? And here you are full circle. And you know, I recently you brought 1000s of Delta employees together at the sphere in Las Vegas to celebrate your 100th anniversary. And what's something about that event, Ed, that reinforces how you lead the company?

Ed Bastian 2:50

Well, we were honored to be able to do one of the opening keynotes for the Consumer Electronics Show. And as you know, it's the biggest show Vegas puts on all year long. And a couple 100,000 people, and I think we had about 15,000 people in attendance at the sphere. I never been to a show at the sphere until I saw my own or participate in my own. So that, in itself, was probably a story. But we we were celebrating the future of flight the first 100 years, first US airline to get to 100 which is pretty crazy, given how turbulent our industry tends to be, but importantly, where we're going next. One of the things that we touched on is we take air travel as a given. Here in the United States, it's ubiquitous. You can jump on a plane almost anywhere you want to go at any time of day. However, only one in five people in the world have ever even been on an airplane. So that tells you about where our future is. It's not a mature industry by any means. It's a it's about going global. It's about making travel, air travel, more accessible, more affordable, more sustainable, and going to parts of the world where we need to bring the Delta love and magic.

David Novak 4:01

And you know, Ed, you're a great communicator, and I know you view it as a very important thing in leadership. You know, what do you think the role of the leader is to really communicate?

Ed Bastian 4:12

I think one of the most important things we do, and running, running these companies, is that we cast vision, and we all have planning departments, and we all set strategy, and we have a probably team of people that works on that with us. But I think only the CEO can think it has the as the responsibility, and also the ability to think further out. I try myself, to try to stay at least five years ahead of my team of the company, maybe 10 years, you know, thinking about where we can go and stretching the possibility so that, you know, people throughout the organization have a pretty good idea where we want to go and be able to pivot when we need to pivot soon enough and get get far enough out so that we're not necessarily tied in. To those decisions, but strategically, have a pretty good mindset, and that's where communication comes in, because you have to be doing it over and over and over. Delta, we have 100,000 employees, and I speak all the time, and I'm in front of them, and so many different formats, but you got to be consistent. You got to be inspiring in terms of what that vision lays out because you got people given their very best to make sure it comes comes into fruition. And I, you know, my years of CEO, I think that's one of the things I've learned. I didn't really fully appreciate it before I became a CEO. But, you know, no one can do it, but the CEO at that level.

David Novak 5:35

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you also have the day to day grind of competition. You know, recently, in one article, I saw this headline where said, Delta Airlines lures Southwest Airline flyers with with the status offer. You know, how do you how do you think about competition, and how do you build competitive urgency into your organization? Well,

Ed Bastian 6:00

we are, we are fiercely competitive industry. You know, unlike maybe your old, your old company where you put up a store and you had that street corner, they couldn't take it away from you, our factories fly. So when we see something that works, guess what? The rest of the industry takes their factories and they fly and try to sit right on top of us, because you imagine a street corner with kind of eight corners to it, you know, different different restaurants trying to serve different things. And so the dynamics of that environment and the ability for consumers to check online, you know, pricing, you know, real time, all the time, where they want to go. It's right in front of them. There's a whole industry of online travel agencies and expedias and price lines that are geared to give consumers their very best value out of trying to compete one against the next. We're born of that. We've gotten a lot better a lot as retailers and as merchandisers over time, but we're born for competition, and I love it, because it's what makes us great. I

David Novak 7:04

can't wait to hear more about how you're leading Delta, but first I want to take you back. You know, what's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader you are today?

Ed Bastian 7:13

Well, to know my childhood knows I was one of nine kids growing up in a small town, Poughkeepsie, New York, and I was the oldest of the nine. And my dad was a dentist. He had his practice right in our house. My mom worked for him, and my grandmother lived with us. And it wasn't that big a house. I think we had, we had one and a half bathrooms in the house. So you can, you can, you can imagine the, you know, today, my tell of my kids that story, they think I grew up in the in, you know, kind of the medieval age or something like that. How in the world did you do but you know, honestly, and I know you can relate to us. You know, things seemed easier, things seemed simpler. I think we were all maybe a little happier, even to live life together. But what I learned is I had, I had to get out for a lot of reasons, but once, I wanted to make sure I set a good example for my younger siblings, in which my parents emphasized on me repeatedly that we had to set the pace and and we did. And so you learn a lot about teamwork. You learn a lot about working, collaborating. You learn a lot about, you know, understanding, you know, in a tight knit community, the importance one can have of being, being a, being a leader. Well,

David Novak 8:26

you know, with nine kids and one and a half bathrooms, you probably had to learn a little bit about how to manage chaos as well. Did that? Did you go? Oh,

Ed Bastian 8:34

yeah, my sisters ran the bathroom. So we had a we had to negotiate for our two minute slots.

David Novak 8:41

You know, you started your career as an accountant at at Price Waterhouse. And as I understand it, you helped uncover, at one point in your career, $50 million in fraud. You got to tell us that story.

Ed Bastian 8:52

Yeah, so this is back in, gosh, I don't know, the early 80s, and you know, $50 million it's a lot of money, but it was a, it was a whole lot of money back then, and that was a front page Wall Street Journal, journal article for years. And I was working on this, this ad agency which I mentioned, J Walter Thompson, and I stumbled upon something that just didn't make sense to me in terms of how the company was was reconciling its books, and it had this manual reconciliation of one account to the next that went on for, gosh, it must have been like 25 or 30 manual pages, and went on for years. It just kept adding and adding and adding to the point where no one had a clue as to what it was. And so, you know, people just kind of accept, well, if it's good enough last year, it's pretty consistent with it just kind of keep the thing rolling. And I, I dug in and made it because it was such a big number, my pursuit to try to figure out what exactly was this, this difference. And as it turned out, it was, it was it was all fraudulent. They were covering up the fact that they weren't able to cover a certain, certain advertising shut. Was a show that they were producing that was being used on barter. And there was a long, long way of saying, I dug in so much that the company wound up acknowledging and figuring out that it was fraud, and there was an SEC investigation, and people went to jail. And, gosh, I was, like, 24 years old at the time, and you know, I was, I was scared out of my mind. But, you know, I realized that you got to trust your instincts, and you got to, you got to curiosity play such an important role in leadership and in life and trying to figure things out. And until you can, don't let it go. Be tenacious. Yeah,

David Novak 10:37

24 years old, and take on a problem like that that had to, you know, take you up the scale in a hurry. And you know, something that we have in common that I didn't know was that we both had 10 years at PepsiCo and working with Frito Lay what was the biggest leadership lesson you picked up in your seven years you spent with that great company.

Ed Bastian 10:57

I loved, loved my time at PepsiCo. I got out of school and went right to right to work, went to St Bonaventure University in upstate New York, and went right to Price Waterhouse. I didn't have any any real graduate learning, and became an accountant with them. But I knew I didn't want to do that for forever, and I needed to find a way to get a broader business degree. But I didn't want to stop working because I didn't want to pay for it. So the next best thing is get hired by PepsiCo, and you're surrounded by amazing leaders. I know you spent time with Enrico. I spent a lot of time with Roger and Steve reineman, and I worked on the international side of the business. So we could, we'd get on the Chester Cheeto plane, out of out of Plano, and fly around the world, and, you know, you'd be with 678, people for a week at a time, and they bring you back home, and you just sit at the hands of some of the real business giants. I learned a lot about sales. I learned about a lot about such an up, you know, the direct to store business up and down the street. You know, you're out on the street corner and you're you're talking to real people about, you know, what you have to do to be successful in life and all different parts of the world. I was there for seven years. I probably got two or 3x that in terms of valuable expertise, to the point when delta called and offered me an opportunity to come work and be my own leader in the finance organization at Delta. I felt truly, truly prepared for it, and

David Novak 12:25

you became the chief financial officer of delta in 2005 and as I understand it, not long after the the airline had to file for bankruptcy. Now how did that season make you a better leader. Well,

Ed Bastian 12:42

I, I left the company. I joined originally 98 and left the company because it was, it was in the aftermath of 911 and the industry was just hurting, and travel was changed, and international was different. And I, I saw the company making a lot of decisions that were inconsistent with the values that I knew it held. You know, pay cuts and job losses and customer cutback air travel was really hard talk about as a lost decade from 2000 to 2010 and anyone out there, out there as a road warrior back, you know, during that period, can can commiserate with that. And I wound up leaving the company because I wasn't able to get some of my my concerns properly addressed. And a few months after I left, the CEO came running back after me and said, you know, what do we need to do to get you to come back? And I told them several things, one of which was unusual is that this company needed to file for bankruptcy and kind of get a reset and start over again. And I talked the CEO into agreeing to do that if I came back. It wasn't a matter if we were going to file bankruptcy. It was just when, and we wanted to make sure we went into bankruptcy with a real plan, rather than stumbling into it and actually getting broken up. You know, our industry, David CEO, at the time, when I was in the courtroom filing it, 180 airlines had filed for bankruptcy at that point in time. You think about all the disruption in our industry, and at that time, only four had ever made it out. So he wished me well and said, I hope to see you on the other side. And we did and and you think about all the airlines from the past, from Pan Am to Dwa to Eastern to Braniff to Hughes, and you go on and on, and people express on and on and on, yet, delta is the airline that made it to 100 Yeah.

David Novak 14:24

What did you do as a leader during that period that got that made that happen? Because, you know, like you said, not everybody did it. I mean, what did you learn from that experience? We

Ed Bastian 14:33

learned to to kind of go back to our roots, to go back to our people. Is this, you know, the this is a tough business, but the differentiation about delta is about service that our people provide. We all fly the same planes. We all have a lot of the same airports. We go to the same destinations. The only thing about our service, our brand, that is truly distinctive cannot be replicated, is the quality of the service of our people and the relationship. Have with our people and the service, the heart that they, that they deploy and travel, is hard, and our people do amazing things, not just to have the most reliable service, but to have the most distinctive and that's why I felt our people were being let down. And so we we got that heart and soul back, and we started a program back then, almost 20 years ago to this day, that I continue today, where I get 678, 100 of our frontline employees from all over the world together, and we do it 15 different times a year, and we spend a couple days with them, talking about the business, kind of networking, learning, inspiring, motivating, casting that vision that vision that we talked about, and having fun and celebrating at the same time. But that that's, that's what the heart of teamwork is, is getting people together and and really appreciating the the and sharing the magic that we get to create a Delta

David Novak 15:55

well, and then, you know, just two years later, you get you get them out, you get out of bankruptcy, you get promoted the president. You know, so many times when you're a functional leader in finance, you get pigeon holed as this numbers guy. You know, how did you demonstrate that you were more than just a numbers guy? And you knew what it really took to run the business day to day? Well, one of

Ed Bastian 16:17

the things about the airlines is that they are, as I said earlier, really dynamic animals. You know, you got to be on top of your numbers to be able to make decisions. Because those you know, whether it's every 5000 flights a day that we have and every condition and things are moving around, fuel prices are moving around, heavy, heavy labor intensity, you know, high cost utilization. So you really have to understand where, where your levers are to drive to drive success. You need to understand your pricing. You need to understand where the where the value proposition sits. You need to understand where your capital is going to go. And so having that analytical depth, which I think finance teaches, it as great a discipline as there is, is something that I think is key to being a successful leader in in the airline space. Historically, had come through labor. It had come with lawyers, and now, if you look at the most successful airlines in the world, many of us, many of us have have kind of financial backgrounds and analytical skills. And you know, used to be an industry with people with huge egos and wanting to, want to go conquer the globe, real swashbuckling heroes. Now we tend to be business people with we wear suits and we have finance degrees because that's what it takes to succeed in this, in this industry.

David Novak 17:35

But still, you had to get this customer orientation. When did you get that in your bones? I

Ed Bastian 17:39

learned I had a lot of people taught me. I learned that at PepsiCo. You know, seven, eight years I was, I was an audit partner at Pricewaterhouse. I had a lot of big accounts. I was out serving them and leading them. I had a lot of people here delta that taught me about that prior, prior mentors and CEOs here that I learned from and and what, what, what they taught me is it's all about people, about service. If you can get your people pulling in the same direction, and you get them behind you, they'll do amazing things for you, and you take good care of them. You treat them well, you pay them great and you know that they know you always have their back. You know they can do magic. I think too many of our leaders, over time, feel like they have to give too much direction, too much micromanaging, too much taking away their ability to create their own leadership mantras and and that's where I think you get in trouble.

Koula Callahan 18:32

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David Novak 19:29

When did you first start to think that you could become the CEO? Ed,

Ed Bastian 19:33

oh, I'm still learning. 10 years later, I'd say it was about that time, about 20 years ago, I was working hard. We were in bankruptcy. I took a week off my family. We went on a vacation someplace, and I came back in town, and there was a big, big fuss going on in the local community. Well, the fellow was the CEO, Jerry grinstein. That name rings a bell was my boss, and he. Had given an interview to the local land a newspaper, and they were because Jerry had said, when he left and retired from Delta, you know, after the bankruptcy, he was going to pick, try to pick someone from within the company. And they were giving a couple names, and he's in one of the names he highlighted was me to be, to be his successor. He never said that once in his life to me, once in his life, and I come back, and I've got all the people in the company looking at me like, What are you doing to kiss up, or, How did you how did you garner his favor? So I went in to see him. I said, Jerry, do you have something to tell me? And and I had this article in hand. They said, Well, he said, You should be the CEO, and you can be the CEO. And question is, do you want to be the CEO? And I said, Well, I'm not sure. I had to think about that. And I came back to him at some point, said, Yeah, I would really like to have that honor someday. And and as a result, eventually it came about.

David Novak 20:49

And you did become the ninth CEO for Delta, and that was in May of 2016 you know, I can tell when you talk about people. You know, culture has to be really important to you. And you know, as as a CEO, what are you trying to bring the culture today that maybe wasn't there a few years ago? Because you know, your culture can't evolve. Is there? Is there some behavior that you think is going to be necessary for you to be better in the future?

Ed Bastian 21:18

You know, culture is something that you know people sometimes think it's, it's just, it's an intangible. It's out there. It's the it's the end product of a lot of things that you do. I think it's something you have to manage. I think it's something that can be formed and can be cultivated and can be needs to be invested in, or else you can lose it. And you know, as the word says it's cult. You know, part of it is there's there has to be a dedication to something. There has to be a consistent application of it. There has to be a pouring of investment into it. For us, it is, it is our people. And over, I'd say the last 10 years, my duration here at Delta, the main thing that we've invested in its differentiation as a higher end airline, as a higher premium airline, as a more international we've 14 years running, been named the number one business airline by business travel news for corporate America. All those things are things that we set out 20 years ago to create, and we've been investing in them and the reliability of the product and the service. The airline business is tough, and the most important thing you can do as an airline leader is to invest in the quality and the reliability of your product, in minimizing your cancelations, making sure your on time arrival rates are the best in the best in business, and over time, your own employees realize you're doing this and giving them then the platform to succeed, giving them the workplace. Because our flight attendants, we have 25,000 flight attendants, they're awesome at hospitality. The one thing I know they're they're awful at is, is apologizing, because they get, they get more upset than anyone that our customers do if we're not on time if we're not meeting our commitments to the brand promise, and so serving them by making sure they have the very best airline reliability and the very best tools and technologies to deliver, then we set them free to go deliver and put an exclamation point on Service with a smile that's different, and over time, that's then yielded premium quality service that's that's delivering a higher quality today. Delta generates about 20% more per ticket for per flight, seat, per seat, than our competition does, and that's because people are valuing the quality of that brand. And is

David Novak 23:37

there anything going forward that you're trying to do differently and with the culture, or you just it's more of the same old, same old.

Ed Bastian 23:43

There was a big pivot during COVID. We we hired, we had a lot of people voluntarily retire, and we had to grow once, once travel came back. So we've got 40,000 new team members just over the last several years, and so getting them into the culture is something we've been been spending a lot of time in. But the next step in our journey is growing our international business, and we do that with partners. We just did the flying ourselves. So we're investors. We own stakes in Air France and KLM and Virgin Atlantic and Korean Air and aero Mexico and the TAM and several others, so that we continue to grow the larger ecosystem and getting our people comfortable to travel on an international basis, because international travel is very different than domestic travel, and that's where the value creation is going to come

David Novak 24:30

over time. Ed, one of the things that I've heard you talk about one quality that you look for in people you hire, and you talk about this heart of service. Say more

Ed Bastian 24:40

well, you know, when we interview people, I appreciate there's a lot of technical aspects to this job. We can teach you, teach you how to be a pilot. We can teach you how to how to fix a plane. We can teach you how to print a boarding pass, whatever it is. The one thing you can't teach is a heart either you. You have a heart of service or you don't. And what I like love to do when I interview people, and we talk to people coming into the business, is understand how they've demonstrated that in their past, their past careers. So I believe you can have, you know the high, the highest level of proficiency and technical depth, but it's your service that that will set you apart. You know, your heart for service. That's the thing that that I think just kind of feeds that culture, is putting, putting that servant leadership right into the middle of the of the requirements set you

David Novak 25:33

obviously have this great appreciation for for people and you recognize them. How do you think about recognition on a day to day basis, how much of part of that is the way you you lead?

Ed Bastian 25:44

Oh, I spent a lot of time with my people, and they take, I take lots of selfies. I take, you know, I'm in the whenever you don't want to be in an airplane with me, because, you know, our customers and employees will know who I am. And I spend time just kind of roaming the roaming the plane and in the galley and in the cockpit and spending time with people just trying to understand them better, and what we can continue to do to take good care of them over time. I do it. I travel almost every day, and my plane somewhere and doing something in community, you'd be surprised, Dave, even with 100,000 employees, more often than not, I've already met the individual you know before, and and they'll, they'll say, hey, I want to show you something. It'll be a picture I took with them 12 years ago. Or they're marked by the fact that they get a chance to spend some personal time with the CEO. And, you know, some people kind of show me we've taken eight pictures together, and they want to show you all the pictures. What it tells me is that how important these roles are, you know that they may never get a chance. In fact, a lot of people say, you know, I've never met the the CEO of my company before, and and been here 30 years, and it's great to great to finally meet you or meet whoever that individual is. They'll tell people. And so that impression that you make every single time is critical. It's important you know their form and opinion on you. That's their that's their moment of choice, and no matter what you Your reputation is, they'll get chance to make their own decision about you. One of the things that my predecessor told me when I took the job David, was that I was too public. I needed to close my close myself a bit off. I needed to get a private email. I needed to get a private phone and text so that people can't reach me because I only have one email and one cell phone and walk around with any kind of hidden identity. And I said, thank you very much by never, I never deployed that his recommendation, because I want people to be able to reach me. And I get hundreds, if not 1000s of emails a day, and I have no they all go to the same device. They all go to me, my I've got a team that sits behind me that can help, helps me take care of getting people where they need to go. And, you know, somebody needs help with something, I tell them, just, just email me. And it's really easy to find what that has done is it's allowed it's not just customers, it's employees, it's people in the community to feel that, you know, there's someone that that we they could talk to at any point in time and get a response that that they people really do care about, about their their their relationship with you, and that that Identity of accessibility is something that people are actually surprised that they can get that level of relationship. And sometimes it'll be on a Saturday afternoon or a Sunday night, and somebody will, they'll get a response back from me in maybe two minutes, because I don't like to see the stuff accumulate either. And they say this, you have, you have an amazing AI agent or a robot or somebody. And I'll say, no, no, it's me. It's not a board here, and I'm just trying to knock things out. But that that builds the identity with people that you're very involved. And when I think about my role with so many things going on, I can be pretty peaceful about it all, because I don't have to go hunting around, seeing what's going on. People tell me, you know, 24/7, what's happening. And I'll find out many times before our leaders will find out what's going on. Because I get, I get it on my phone blows up first thing for the people being impacted. So it's, it's an interesting way to use use technology to keep yourself engaged and in the game. And

David Novak 29:16

you know, you've been recognized yourself as well many times, and you always accept it on behalf of the team, which I like that. And you were recently announced as one of Time magazine's most influential people of 2025 and as a part of the announcement, you know our friend Ken Chenault did a write up of you, and he said, while Ed is the epitome of the service leader, make no mistake, he is a tough minded business executive. Tell me a story. Ed, when you you, you demonstrated that tough minded characteristic.

Ed Bastian 29:49

Oh, I'll tell you a funny story about Ken. How's that? So Ken? Ken's a dear friend for as he is with you for many, many years. And American Express is our top partner. I. We that credit card that the American Express has, the Delta credit card, that's the top performing card American Express has by a factor of two of any other card in the entire Amex system. Fact, 10% of the worldwide billings go through on the Delta American Express credit card. So it's huge. They pay us. They'll pay us this year, about $8 billion for that credit card. That's how that's how big it is. The relationship. Well, back when Wes, I mentioned we were we were struggling, we were having to go through bankruptcy. I went to American Express because I needed to raise some money, and they had invested in it. Of course, the relationship much, much smaller back then, at that time, and I went to Ken. And I think Ken loaned us the last $500 million that we needed to do to put the business plan together to eventually emerge, because they had, they had a best at stake in Delta surviving as well about five years after that, after we had come out and repaid the loan and did everything we had, we had a big leadership meeting, and we invited Ken to come in and speak at the meeting. And he did a great job, as he always does. And after he got done, I got up and spoke, and I thank Ken and told him that, you know, he's amazing partner, great, great leader. But the thing I'll always remember about Ken is that $500 million that you loaned us Ken, and Ken saying, yeah, yeah, I put myself out there for you. He said, You charged us 14% for that money. I'm gonna make sure we get that 14% back for you for many, many times over. And you think about how we grown, our relationship, we certainly have so, you know, you don't. You know business is competition. It's good competition. You have fun with friends. And he laughed and and we all laugh, but yeah, I'll never forget, Ken charged me 14% as we were on our deathbed just a

David Novak 31:43

few minutes ago. You you talked about the power of having this open email. Do you have a story of the best feedback you ever received from a customer that led to a good idea?

Ed Bastian 31:56

Oh, I get I get feedback all the time. The best feedback I get, and I get it every single day is they catch our employees in action, doing, doing amazing, heroic work, and they'll, they'll, then they know they can reach me. So you know, there's, you can go on our website and fill out a form to give a compliment to an employee, or you can give them a card, or a kind of a attaboy type thing. But those that are really in the know realize, just to email me, and I'll personally thank thank the the individual, and there's so many, some of those people get credit through those, through those through those vehicles, but I'll hear stories about people's lives being changed by our people in terms of just their ability to make certain that, that, you know, whether somebody lost a really important possession on a plane, and a mechanic will, you know, three days later, have taken a seat apart, still trying to find this thing. And they'll, they'll recover something that was, they the employees, like a wedding ring, or something, you know, amazing value, or how we've, we've, we've created connections for people that have become lifelong friends. Or, I can't tell you how many marriages and wedding proposals and people that met on delta property or delta delta flights, you know, want to, you know, emanate it from that I get, I get lots of ideas, as you said, I mean, ideas about, you know how to board, what food to serve on the planes. And we're, I know you're in the business of restaurants. We've I think we're one of the largest restaurants in the world, world. We serve 200 million people a year on our in our little restaurant itself, and our lounges and and all the places. A lot of our business travelers are road warriors. They're on the road every week, and they're always telling me or ask me, why can't we board this way or that way? So I get a lot of great, great feedback.

David Novak 33:46

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Ed Bastian in just a moment. Now, as you heard Ed's got some great stories about Ken Chenault, the former chairman and CEO of American Express. Ken was kind enough to join me on a how leaders lead podcast where he shared some of my favorite insights about the importance of feedback for leaders,

Ken Chenault 34:07

one of the things that I talk to founders about very directly is eliciting and receiving direct feedback. And so this concept that I used in management of constructive confrontation, do it respectfully, but at the end of the day, what you want with your people, and what you're going to get with me is I'm going to tell you how I feel, what my concerns are, what areas you need to develop. Let's talk about it, but then let's put a game plan together, because one of the things that's important that I really stress the founders or anyone that I'm mentoring, is we're all judged by our actions, and so take me through the outcomes behaviors that you engage in. Let's understand what the impacts are. Let's understand what the results are, because we all got to be outcome driven. And. But again, if we want to do something that's really lasting and meaningful, it's got to be motivated by values and principles.

David Novak 35:07

So catch my entire conversation with Ken, Episode 68 here on how leaders lead. You know, you managed Delta through the one of the toughest times in the airline industry will ever face with COVID. But before we talk about that, you know, understand, a few weeks prior to COVID, your mother passed away. You know, when life happens like that, and you know, I know how tough that is myself, you know, and when you have so much responsibility at work, Ed, how do you manage that?

Ed Bastian 35:43

That was tough. I think we all have our own COVID recollections as to as to the craziness that was going on. 2019 for Delta was our best year in our history. I think was the best year any airline had ever had. So we're at the highest of heights. And then when it hit in in February of that year, people started to figure out something was going wrong. My mother had somewhat, somewhat shockingly, mysteriously died, and she had, she had an infection, and she went in the hospital, and a couple of weeks later she was gone, and she had been in great health to that point, and my mom was my role model, and my dad died very, very young, and so she, she raised the nine kids, and she was something, someone that was always my rock. Then a week later, right after we buried her, you know, COVID, the COVID pandemic, was declared, and all of our revenue went away. All of our business, in fact, we, we not only had no revenues, we were negative revenues because people had deposits that we had a refund monies, you know, for trips. We had like, $6 billion on the books for trips that people were to be taking into the spring and summer, that they had put on deposit, and these people wanted their money back. I mean, so, you as a as a Christian man, I really thought I was, you know, kind of job in the Bible, a little bit, you know, kind of, I lost my mom, I lost my business. What's, what's going to come next? And so what I did, David, is I gave myself about a week to feel really sorry for myself. I mean, I was like, for a few days. I was just pretty, pretty depressed. I came through that week at the end of it. And I spent a lot of time and thought and prayer and other things, and I realized, boy, this, this isn't a burden. This is a blessing. I mean, in the 100 year history of Delta Airlines, there's never been a more important time to be the CEO of this company. Never. This will be the this will be the role that I'll make my life on my this be the career highlight of my life, saving this company and getting it through. It's a privilege. It wasn't a burden. It was a blessing. I had to tell you, I did that pep talk with myself every day, for a lot of days, just to remind myself of not just the responsibility but the opportunity that are born then the 10s of 1000s of people that were counting on the decisions we were taking. And I realized, boy, there's no other place I'd rather be and in that job at that time. And so, you know, I had a I had a moment I had to kind of dig into my own humanity and be vulnerable and realize when I got out the others, no, no, this is no, this is my time to stand up. And that's what my mom would have wanted me to do, and that's what that's what my my family needed, and that's my delta family, 100,000 strong, needed,

David Novak 38:27

you know, speaking of step stepping up, Ed, you said this ambitious goal not to furlough a single employee during COVID. How'd you get the entire company to rally behind that and make it a reality? Because that that seems to me like one hell of a leadership task. Yeah,

Ed Bastian 38:44

let's say I thought it would be impossible. Yeah, we did a lot of these video things back then. We had a video serves meta or Facebook back back then, I guess that's something that we use for internal trends. So fortunately, we had the communication vehicle, and I talk on the several times a week to 10s of 1000s of people, just for an hour a day, just letting them know what was going on, because no one knew what was happening. And people just needed to see you. They needed to look at your face. They needed to see how much, if you were comfortable, if you were confident, if you were worried, and it just vulnerability, I think was one of the key things we all learned during COVID, and that's where where a connection was born. And people can tell pretty quickly if you were being true and straight with them or not. And one day early on, I said I was, I was I was thinking that day that Boy, wouldn't it be amazing? Now all our revenue is gone. If we could get through this crisis without furloughing a single person, I basically said it out loud for the first time, and like 10s of 1000s of people are hearing me say this, and I'm having this, this kind of open ended conversation with myself. And I said, you know, it's probably impossible, but why not try? Let's see if there's any way to get this done. And I had a few things going for me. One. Thing we haven't talked about is how we reward our people. One of the things that delta is famous for we implemented 20 years ago is a profit sharing arrangement where 15% of the profits of our company go to our people and not management doesn't participate in that. That's just, that's just all frontline people. And the prior year, we just had the best year in our history. And we distributed on and we always distribute on balance. Distribute on Valentine's Day. We distributed $1.7 billion to our people on that Valentine's Day, just the month earlier. So I knew they had money. All right, I knew, I knew there was money. It was like two months worth of pay. And I knew a lot of people were, were nervous about being out in public and flying. And I knew people were a lot of people, whether it was their second job or people that could, that could, could take time off, and I knew they wanted to stay. They kept saying, What can we do for our company? And I said, if you want to make this a reality, we needed as many of you to take time off without pay for as long as you could, could afford to. We kept their benefits alive, and we gave them some travel privileges, and we had 50,000 people, half, more than half of the company, at the time, take up to a year or more off without pay. And we grew this high what people would consider to be a fixed cost base. We shrunk it down to maybe half its size, and then on top of that, we did a voluntary retirement arrangement for people that were willing to go at that point. And then we got down further, so we only make a third of our size within a few months. And that's that's our people are our biggest cost. It's not fuel, it's not the planes. It's people. It's a heavy, heavy people business. And our people did it for for each other. And as a result of that, you know, people were so proud of the fact that we didn't have to furlough, you know, every other airline the world furloughed 10s, if not hundreds of 1000s of people. We didn't, and we wanted to make that a real point of differentiation.

David Novak 41:58

Yeah, I love how you light up when you talk about that, because you have that pride too. And you know, that's such an amazing accomplishment, and you worked your way through COVID very successfully. Can I tell you

Ed Bastian 42:10

one other? Can I tell you one other really quick story in COVID? Absolutely. So the other thing I did was we blocked the middle seats on our planes, and we blocked them all through COVID. And of course, when no one flying, it's easy to block the Middle East. But when people started flying again, but they still weren't comfortable that COVID was over, we kept blocking the middle seats. We blocked the Middle East for up to two years, and our brand just took off like a rocket ship. Our brand was already on ascent and just took off like a rocket ship. And customers still thank me to this day say, Hey, I didn't want to have to travel. I needed to get to a little the bedside of a loved one, or I had to do something for work. Delta's the only airline that I fly, because you because all the other airlines started selling those middle seats you didn't sell either in first class or in the coach section of the airplane, playing the middle seats. And I always say, thank you very much. But the truth of that story is the reason we blocked those middle seats. I had made that decision because I knew our own people didn't want to work on a crowded plane anymore, and our customers wanted to sit on a crowded plane. So I really did it for our own people. So when you talk about putting people first and having that people centricity, and you're with COVID, we had to make these things up. You know, we didn't have a playbook for any of this stuff as it was going on, that brand still, still sits with us today, but our people know the real reason we did it was for them. You know,

David Novak 43:27

you're obviously a big believer. If you do the right things, the right things happen, and they certainly have happened for you and and post COVID, the travel industry is booming right now, and you know, how are you taking advantage of this rebound period that you're obviously in? Because your results are pretty amazing. We've We've

Ed Bastian 43:49

grown, we've expanded. All demographics are traveling. All you know, our younger people are traveling at levels never before seen, the Gen Z population actually has more wealth than any of the previous generational cohorts, and they're using it on travel. Baby Boomers, guys like ourselves, are outgoing. So many people were sit sitting home for a couple of years, wondering whether they were ever going to get out again, and watching life, you know, pass them by, and whether you're older or younger didn't matter. I think COVID was a marking period for them. So So we're now in a period of with tariffs and all the economic uncertainty and questions about a recession as a recession coming or not for our country. Yet, our people are here, traveling like crazy, and they're going internationally, they're going premium, they're going on all the higher end products that we have to offer. They're selling out our credit card business Express is growing double digits. I think, I think people are prioritizing where they where they spend their money. And they're really not buying things, but they're investing in themselves. And they're going to Turkey, and they're going. To Australia, and they're going to Riyadh, and, you know, all the places the world that they spent time and again, they're going younger, they're going older. And that's our business model, is to connect and and bring them to meet their life's life's dreams.

David Novak 45:15

You know this, this GO, GO environment that you're in right now. You know, what do you see as your biggest Leadership Challenge?

Ed Bastian 45:22

Well, I think it's continuing to to keep our people, you know, kind of focused on on every single day. You know, that driving that, that that great, that great, great example. You know, we've been on top of our industry for a lot of years. And I know all the other airlines are sick and tired about hearing about delta this and delta that, and you know, they just can't wait to take us down and and try to beat us. And which, which I love, because I'm a very competitive guy, but what I what I want our people to always know, is that the most important thing is the awards. The accolades are nice, but they don't there. It's totally irrelevant. It's really what you do today and tomorrow that matters, and you got to go out and prove it and do it better every single day. Keep climbing is our model. We've been using it for years, and every single day we can, we can make the world better. A number of years ago, my marketing team came to me, and you'd love this story, and they said, you know, keep climbing. We adopted that coming out of bankruptcy. And, you know, it was a great it was a great, honest statement about where we were. Weren't very good, but stay with us. We're going to get better. And sure enough, we've gotten better. And they wanted to come out with a new model, a bolder statement about, you know, not that we've arrived, but you know, there's a different experience you should expect on Delta, and I said, thank you very much, and threw them out and said, I'm never done for changing. It's honest, it's humble, it recognizes that we can always do better, and we want to get better, and as long as I'm here, we're never taking that model off. That's

David Novak 46:47

another great example of being tough minded. That's a really good one right there. You know, speaking of keep climbing, you know, how are you sharpening your acts as a leader? I mean, what are you working on right now? So that you're, you become better and better. Well,

Ed Bastian 47:05

I think for myself, personally, because I've been doing this for a while, you know, I try to make certain that I'm I continue to get fed, I continue to listen. I think listening is such an important part of leadership that's understated. You know, as leaders, we don't, you know, people look to us for direction or for vision or for guidance, and sometimes we can get almost too accustomed to giving direction and not spending enough time thinking and listening and taking in advice and being curious and kind of pushing the envelope a little bit differently. So I'm trying to do my best to kind of keep my my focus on, on what I can learn, what we can learn as a team from so many different people. You know, we're a very public facing business, making certain that we never, we never really, you know, stop learning. And Morgan, I've been working with guy, you know, well, Tom Brady. And Tom's a good friend and been doing working together for a few years. And since he he came out of the league, he wanted to work with a company, and he talked to a bunch of companies. He called me said, I really want to do this with Delta, and that's what I wanted to do with him, too, because you think about who has excelled at the highest levels in the world consistently for such a long duration period of time, and I wanted to hold him up as a leadership example for our team to continue to get better. And one of the things that Tom has, and you know this is incredibly humble, even though he's confident, he's still humble. He wants to learn and he's curious, and he's always prepared. And, you know, every single day is a new opportunity. Texted me this morning on some things he was thinking about for us, and that's, that's what we have to be, you know, we can never get accustomed to the seats that we're in. We have to go continue finding way to make that seat better for somebody else.

David Novak 48:57

That's great. You know, this has been so much fun, Ed and I want to have a little bit more with you. I have this lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Yeah, I'm ready. Okay, the three words that best describe you

Ed Bastian 49:09

people, service and spirit. If you could

David Novak 49:13

be one person for a day beside yourself? Who would it be?

Ed Bastian 49:16

Well, I tell you, growing up, who I wanted to be. I wanted to

David Novak 49:18

be Mickey Mantle me too. What's your biggest pet peeve? Obnoxious

Ed Bastian 49:22

behaviors? Who would play you in a movie? Well, it's funny. So Will Ferrell just came out with a new movie, and at the closing scene of the movie, he was, he was with some woman, and she said, do you actually have a job? He says, Yeah, I'm the CEO of Delta Airlines. So it have to be Will Ferrell,

David Novak 49:41

imagine you're going on a trip, but all you get to take with you is what you can fit in your pillow case, what's going inside? Oh,

Ed Bastian 49:49

I used to do that from my that's my mom. Because, you know, growing up with nine kids, we go to Florida in our our station wagon, and all you could bring was what you're putting so I've experienced that. I I'd bring, uh. Yeah, I'd bring probably some some some comfortable clothes, maybe, maybe something that could golf in, some golf shoes and some running shoes. And I just, I'd want to make sure I was going someplace warm.

David Novak 50:13

What was the hardest thing for a New York kid to learn about life in the south,

Ed Bastian 50:17

for them to understand me? Learn, learning, learning how to say

David Novak 50:21

you all, what's the one thing you do, just for you each

Ed Bastian 50:26

morning I when I wake up, I spend about 15 minutes in trying to try and just isolate. And that's my reflection

David Novak 50:33

time. Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?

Ed Bastian 50:37

The Atlanta Braves gave me World Series ring a few years ago when they won the World Series.

David Novak 50:42

And that ring, I've seen it from Terry McGurk, that's got some bling to it. No question about that. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

Ed Bastian 50:50

You'd hear classic rock. What's something about you? Few people would know. When I was my early years at Pricewaterhouse, I was an auditor. But you know, the award shows that people would come out on MTV. Used to have the Video Music Awards, the VMAs, and there was an accountant that would come out with the ballots. I was the accountant with the ballot, and I'd be given, I'd be giving out the balloting to all the great stories there.

David Novak 51:19

Well, that's the end of the lighting round. Great job. Ed, just a few more questions. I'm let you go. Ed, you have four kids, you know, how do you lead at home?

Ed Bastian 51:27

Force them to want to be, you know, anything that they don't want to be so and each of them are doing totally, totally separate things, which I'm so proud of. I mean, none of them are following me in in the airline businesses, which is great, because I didn't want, necessarily, that I make certain I as busy as I am, they, they all know that my most important job is to be dad and father, not not a CEO. And you know that comes in conflict a lot of times. You got to, you got to make trade offs, and it's hard. But they all, they all, we stay very, very close, and technology allows us to do that easier than ever. And

David Novak 52:06

I know your wife, Deborah, is a very close partner of yours. You know, how do you interact in the business? Or do you,

Ed Bastian 52:13

oh, she's got it. She's got more opinions than anybody. I practice my listening skills when I'm home.

David Novak 52:20

That's good. That's good. All right. Edwin, when you look out, okay, what do you see as your unfinished business?

Ed Bastian 52:28

Oh, I got, I got a few more years to run here. And really what I want is, you know that we're in a tough business. The airlines were tough, and they make progress. And, you know, some economic crisis or COVID, or some war breaks out, or some some calamity occurs, and so, you know, the performance of the company continues to get better, but it's always, it's always up and down. There's, there's a lot of volatility. I want us to to get to a place where we kind of immune ourselves as best we can from the risks getting our debts paid off. We still have some, some debt we want to get paid down in our balance sheet and and say, I've left, you know, the top brand in the airline industry with the fortress balance sheet that is unassailable, and people with the greatest heart of service. I mean, that's, I mean, you're always working towards that, but I think in the next few years we can actually attain that

David Novak 53:21

last question, Ed, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader? One

Ed Bastian 53:27

piece of advice? You know, it really, it's about the people you surround yourself with. You know, it's your mentors, it's your community, it's, you know, just, you know, we all learned that as kids. My parents always told us, you know, the people you hang out with, just make sure those are people that lift you up and that that will bring you places you want to go, because they're going to bring you places you may not want to, want to land. And I remember, as a young leader, I did a lot of reading on leadership. I always wanted to be, you know, I'd attend sessions sometimes I'd always want to be curious. I'd be a curious learner about leadership. And one of the great joys I've had Mother, I've met many of the leaders I used to grow up, you know, reading about and learning from and and seeing Wow. I mean, they're humans, after all, but you know, but you know, just being able to relate to them, and, you know, just just making certain you're, in a you're in a circle of your your colleagues, of your community, your friends who take you places you want to go.

David Novak 54:29

And Anna, I know that anyone that has the opportunity to be with you would consider it an honor, and they love hanging with you, because the kind of leader you are, the kind of person you are, the kind of father you are and your passion for people. And I want to thank you so much for taking the time to be on how leaders lead with me, and for setting such a good example for all leaders. Because I can tell from this conversation, this is, you know, this is stuff that you believe with your heart and soul and. Put it into practice. So thank you. David

Ed Bastian 55:02

leader, leadership is also about sharing, right? And it's about about, you know, what we can do to grow our next generation of leaders? And that's, that's the real testament for, for you, me, for others, that you know, it's what we leave behind that's really going to make a difference. Great.

David Novak 55:17

Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. You

Yeah, Ed combines so many great qualities of a strong leader, a tough mindedness, a heart for people, and a humble spirit. I mean, with him at the helm, it's easy to see why Delta's the industry leader, but Ed knows that being the best isn't a finish line. It's a standard you have to keep meeting day after day after day. And that kind of consistency doesn't happen by accident. It takes focus, it takes humility, and it takes a deep belief that it's always possible to get better. So here's something to try this week. Look at the areas where your team is winning right now and ask yourself, how do we keep the edge? How do we keep getting better and better? Because I hate to say it, but I know you'll agree with this. If you think about it, if you're not improving, you're going to get beaten by someone who is so do you want to know how leaders lead. What we learned today is the great leaders never stop improving. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon. So be sure you subscribe on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast so that you don't miss it. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead, where every Thursday you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business, so that you'll become the very best leader you can be.

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