[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3083/carve-out-your-own-lane-in-the-market","id",3083,"title","Carve out your own lane in the market","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.320\ninvestors would not understand how to value a handbag business when we run\n\n2\n00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:05.600\npublic.\n\n3\n00:00:05.600 --> 00:00:13.060\nAnd we needed to create a much more clear positioning so investors would\n\n4\n00:00:13.060 --> 00:00:13.440\nunderstand.\n\n5\n00:00:13.440 --> 00:00:20.900\nHence, when we looked at bags purchased in the United States, there were mass\n\n6\n00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:21.200\nbrands,\n\n7\n00:00:21.200 --> 00:00:26.800\nand they dominated the department's sources specialty stores. And they were\n\n8\n00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:27.520\nbasically\n\n9\n00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:33.920\nimitations of European brands or house labels that the department stores made.\n\n10\n00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:35.200\nAnd they were made\n\n11\n00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:42.960\nwith inexpensive materials in the lowest possible labor country. There was mass\n\n12\n00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:43.360\n, and that\n\n13\n00:00:43.360 --> 00:00:54.560\naccounted for probably 95% of units and 80% of dollars. The other 20% was a\n\n14\n00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:56.400\nmixture of small\n\n15\n00:00:56.400 --> 00:01:03.410\nAmerican brands like Coach or Dunie and Burke or Anne Klein or Calderon or Tra\n\n16\n00:01:03.410 --> 00:01:04.240\nfalgar. There\n\n17\n00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:09.840\nwere a bunch of small handbags and then there was European luxury. What became\n\n18\n00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:10.640\nclear to us when\n\n19\n00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:16.930\nwe were in the conference room was that we were occupying a single lane between\n\n20\n00:01:16.930 --> 00:01:18.480\nmass and luxury.\n\n21\n00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:26.920\nAnd with Americans more interested in brands than ever before, especially women\n\n22\n00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:27.040\n,\n\n23\n00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:34.480\nwe saw an opportunity to create a term that would actually identify us. So I\n\n24\n00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:35.440\ndon't remember who\n\n25\n00:01:35.440 --> 00:01:43.990\ncoined it. We had 15 or 20 words on the wall, and all of a sudden we circled\n\n26\n00:01:43.990 --> 00:01:45.600\naccessible luxury.\n\n27\n00:01:45.600 --> 00:01:51.120\nWe left the conference room and then I spent the following day defining what\n\n28\n00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:52.640\naccessible luxury\n\n29\n00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:59.430\nlooks like. And when we went on our roadshow, we were able to help investors,\n\n30\n00:01:59.430 --> 00:02:00.800\nparticularly men\n\n31\n00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:05.700\nwho at the time probably represented 85% of the people on the roadshow\n\n32\n00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:08.000\nunderstand that coach\n\n33\n00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.450\nwas a brand that had an emotional attachment with its consumers who are\n\n34\n00:02:14.450 --> 00:02:15.760\nprimarily women.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1166849,"end_time",1302739,"keywords","Product, positioning, brand, marketing, market positioning, investors, accessible luxury, luxury brand","slug","carve-out-your-own-lane-in-the-market","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","00ig7UnfgVfIwjgqLflemulHzvrUjfcdNhBne1nv8q01Y","mux_asset_id","02g15YmVaZqa00rLPhMCJnRh9MJI027fDzyRziLeq01pdnA","leader_id",250,"episode_id",402,"updated_at","2025-10-23T17:36:10.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3083/carve-out-your-own-lane-in-the-market","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_25":108,"_109":110,"_61":111,"_58":111,"_112":113,"_68":114,"_39":115,"_116":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_117":118,"_90":119,"_44":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_46":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_94":129,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":89,"_90":-5,"_46":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Combine magic and logic","combine-magic-and-logic","Listen to this leadership podcast with Lew Frankfort, Chairman Emeritus and former CEO of Coach, and discover the power of balancing execution and creativity.","summary","

He built Coach from a small leather goods brand into a $5 billion global fashion powerhouse.

But Lew Frankfort’s rise to the top isn’t what you’d expect.

He started out in public service and even got passed over for a promotion for being “too principled.” But when he came to Coach, he brought relentless drive, strong investigative instincts, and a unique leadership philosophy he calls “Magic + Logic.”

He’s got wisdom to help any leader who wants to build something that lasts – with both quality execution and inspired creativity.

In this episode, he shares:

What a guidance counselor told him in 9th grade that almost changed everything
What to do when you spot a gap in the marketplace
One unusual trait to develop if you want to excel at product development and marketing
A helpful analogy to help you manage conflict

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.650\nthere's no product that's more intimate to a consumer, to a woman than a hand\n\n2\n00:00:05.650 --> 00:00:06.080\nbag.\n\n3\n00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:11.910\nShe opens it 60, 70 times a day. Her essentials are in there. She touches it,\n\n4\n00:00:11.910 --> 00:00:12.480\nfeels it.\n\n5\n00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:23.360\nIf someone had told 20-year-old Lou that handbags would define his career,\n\n6\n00:00:23.360 --> 00:00:29.030\nwhat would you have said back then? I would have said that's absurd. There's no\n\n7\n00:00:29.030 --> 00:00:29.680\nway.\n\n8\n00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.720\nI would be flabbergasted if someone said it, and I would think that it would be\n\n9\n00:00:34.720 --> 00:00:38.400\nan out-of-body experience like me going to the moon.\n\n10\n00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:44.640\nWell, we're going to learn how you got there, and I want to start by taking you\n\n11\n00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:44.720\nback\n\n12\n00:00:44.720 --> 00:00:50.000\nand taking you way back. You grew up in the Bronx as I understand it. Your\n\n13\n00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:50.720\nfather was a\n\n14\n00:00:50.720 --> 00:00:55.210\npoliceman. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader\n\n15\n00:00:55.210 --> 00:00:56.640\nyou are today, Lou?\n\n16\n00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:03.440\nI think it had to do with going way back with my mother's and father's belief\n\n17\n00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:10.470\nthat I could be anything if I worked hard and I was relentless, and their\n\n18\n00:01:10.470 --> 00:01:12.480\nbelief in me unconditionally\n\n19\n00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:18.800\nreally helped me through tough periods. Do you remember a time when or a story\n\n20\n00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:20.080\nwhen you felt\n\n21\n00:01:20.080 --> 00:01:23.180\nthat belief from them that they gave you that sense that you could just make\n\n22\n00:01:23.180 --> 00:01:24.080\nanything happen?\n\n23\n00:01:24.080 --> 00:01:30.400\nI do. I vividly remember a moment when I was in the ninth grade,\n\n24\n00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:36.110\nsitting in a guidance counselor's office, Mr. Schmutter, with my mother next to\n\n25\n00:01:36.110 --> 00:01:36.560\nme, and\n\n26\n00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:45.280\nhe looked at us and said, \"I think Lewis should go to a vocational school. I\n\n27\n00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:46.400\ndon't think college\n\n28\n00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:54.730\nis for him.\" My mother said, \"Lewis is going to college and stood up and left\n\n29\n00:01:54.730 --> 00:01:56.240\nthe room saying,\n\n30\n00:01:56.240 --> 00:02:01.480\n'I should follow her.' I was embarrassed because I thought maybe the guidance\n\n31\n00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:02.640\ncounselor was right,\n\n32\n00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:09.360\nthat perhaps college wasn't for me, but she was right, and I followed a few\n\n33\n00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:10.560\nminutes later.\"\n\n34\n00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:18.620\nIt turns out that I had speech impediments when I was a young kid, and I also\n\n35\n00:02:18.620 --> 00:02:19.600\nwas a late bloomer.\n\n36\n00:02:19.600 --> 00:02:25.280\nIf Mr. Schmutter could see me today, he might second guess some of the\n\n37\n00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.640\nrecommendations\n\n38\n00:02:26.640 --> 00:02:32.800\nhe made to other families back then. It's amazing how some people will\n\n39\n00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:40.240\nstunt your growth, and other people will just help you take off. When you see\n\n40\n00:02:40.240 --> 00:02:41.040\npeople\n\n41\n00:02:41.040 --> 00:02:45.910\nstunning other people's growth within your company, or when you see people\n\n42\n00:02:45.910 --> 00:02:47.120\nshutting people down,\n\n43\n00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:54.080\nhow do you react to that today? I get distressed. I always do. First, I believe\n\n44\n00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:55.440\nthat you need to\n\n45\n00:02:55.440 --> 00:03:01.690\nlet people become the best versions of themselves, and you need to create an\n\n46\n00:03:01.690 --> 00:03:02.720\nenvironment that allows\n\n47\n00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:08.970\nyou to do that. One of the things I took away from my childhood experience is\n\n48\n00:03:08.970 --> 00:03:10.560\nyou cannot let others\n\n49\n00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:17.040\ndefine who you will be. Possibilities are really infinite.\n\n50\n00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:22.520\nSo, your mother encouraged you, your father encouraged you. You went on to\n\n51\n00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:23.680\ncollege, and then,\n\n52\n00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.650\nas I understand it, your background is very interesting to me. You spent nearly\n\n53\n00:03:27.650 --> 00:03:28.480\na decade\n\n54\n00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:33.360\nin New York City and government. What did that teach you about leadership, Lou?\n\n55\n00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:40.320\nIt actually helped prepare me for coach in a lot of different ways. I had a\n\n56\n00:03:40.320 --> 00:03:42.320\nterrific mentor\n\n57\n00:03:42.320 --> 00:03:49.660\nfor a very important five-year period when I was in city government who really\n\n58\n00:03:49.660 --> 00:03:51.200\nhelped me\n\n59\n00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:57.820\nlearn how to strengthen my investigative skills, how to be incisive, concise,\n\n60\n00:03:57.820 --> 00:03:59.200\nand the alike,\n\n61\n00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:08.690\nand that mentor, like Herb, was a remarkable experience. That was one thing\n\n62\n00:04:08.690 --> 00:04:09.760\nthat I learned\n\n63\n00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:16.540\nin from my experience in government. Something else that I learned is that not\n\n64\n00:04:16.540 --> 00:04:17.600\neveryone\n\n65\n00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:24.800\nis looking out for the greater good. Of course, many people in companies and\n\n66\n00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:30.740\nending government and nonprofit organizations, many of them are looking to get\n\n67\n00:04:30.740 --> 00:04:32.480\nby to Friday,\n\n68\n00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:37.860\nto the next holiday. I was looking to improve the quality of life for the\n\n69\n00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:39.680\npeople that I served,\n\n70\n00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:45.520\nand I needed to find the right environment within government to do that. I did\n\n71\n00:04:45.520 --> 00:04:46.640\nfind that, actually,\n\n72\n00:04:46.640 --> 00:04:52.460\nan example of that significant development was when I was asked to run daycare\n\n73\n00:04:52.460 --> 00:04:53.200\nand head start\n\n74\n00:04:53.200 --> 00:05:03.520\nfor the city in New York during 1976. I was considered a strong data-oriented\n\n75\n00:05:03.520 --> 00:05:05.600\nanalyst with\n\n76\n00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:13.160\ngood social skills who cared for people, and this particular agency, daycare\n\n77\n00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:14.080\nand head start,\n\n78\n00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:20.320\nwas at the center of a fiscal scandal during the time New York City went\n\n79\n00:05:20.320 --> 00:05:22.400\nbankrupt. I was asked to\n\n80\n00:05:22.400 --> 00:05:29.070\ncome in and improve the quality of service and ensure that the agency was\n\n81\n00:05:29.070 --> 00:05:31.200\ncomplying with federal\n\n82\n00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:37.830\nand state regs for eligibility for kids. When you go into an environment like\n\n83\n00:05:37.830 --> 00:05:38.000\nthat,\n\n84\n00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.640\nwe're toxic, obviously. People weren't doing the right things. How did you\n\n85\n00:05:42.640 --> 00:05:43.840\nchange the tone?\n\n86\n00:05:43.840 --> 00:05:48.080\nAs a leader, one of the early things I learned is that you really need to have\n\n87\n00:05:48.080 --> 00:05:48.960\nbelief\n\n88\n00:05:48.960 --> 00:05:55.210\nand purpose, and that you needed to be able to articulate that consistently and\n\n89\n00:05:55.210 --> 00:05:56.000\nconcisely\n\n90\n00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:03.760\nto your team. My goal was to protect the children that were eligible who were\n\n91\n00:06:03.760 --> 00:06:04.720\nin daycare and head\n\n92\n00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:12.720\nstart services. I built around me a coalition team of strong leaders who shared\n\n93\n00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:13.760\nmy belief\n\n94\n00:06:13.760 --> 00:06:20.160\nthat these services are essential as gateway services to help children from\n\n95\n00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:21.920\nlower-income families\n\n96\n00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:26.790\nclose whatever educational or social gaps they might have so that they could\n\n97\n00:06:26.790 --> 00:06:27.680\nlive a better life.\n\n98\n00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:35.900\nI developed a very strong team that shared my belief, and we went about it very\n\n99\n00:06:35.900 --> 00:06:37.440\nsystematically.\n\n100\n00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:43.340\nCity Hall largely kept out of our way, and we made the cuts that we needed to\n\n101\n00:06:43.340 --> 00:06:43.840\ndo.\n\n102\n00:06:43.840 --> 00:06:50.090\nWe also made the improvements that allowed every eligible child to stay in care\n\n103\n00:06:50.090 --> 00:06:50.320\n.\n\n104\n00:06:50.320 --> 00:06:57.270\nNow, Lou, you had this job with the city in the '30s, so you've got a massive\n\n105\n00:06:57.270 --> 00:06:58.240\nchallenge on your\n\n106\n00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:03.990\nhands, and you're really young. How did you handle that pressure at such an\n\n107\n00:07:03.990 --> 00:07:05.760\nearly stage to take on so\n\n108\n00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:13.680\nmuch? I've always been driven by a drive for excellence and a fear of failure.\n\n109\n00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:15.280\nSo the fear of\n\n110\n00:07:15.280 --> 00:07:24.880\nfailure left me no choice but to be 24/7, singularly focused, determined,\n\n111\n00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:25.600\nrelentless,\n\n112\n00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:32.850\nand at the same time bring in, most importantly, the right team who shared, as\n\n113\n00:07:32.850 --> 00:07:34.320\nI said earlier, my\n\n114\n00:07:34.320 --> 00:07:39.760\nbeliefs, but also could get things done. Execution is a real big problem in\n\n115\n00:07:39.760 --> 00:07:40.960\norganizations,\n\n116\n00:07:40.960 --> 00:07:45.440\nparticularly in government. One of the things she said you picked up that I\n\n117\n00:07:45.440 --> 00:07:46.480\nreally loved was\n\n118\n00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:51.920\ninvestigative skills. I've done a lot of podcast talking to a lot of leaders,\n\n119\n00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:58.170\nbut they've never really described that as a skill in that specific word, \"\n\n120\n00:07:58.170 --> 00:07:58.880\ninvestigated.\"\n\n121\n00:07:58.880 --> 00:08:08.640\nSay more. Well, I think one of my strengths is my insatiable curiosity,\n\n122\n00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:17.120\nand if I was to bridge to coach just for a moment, I believe going to coach\n\n123\n00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:23.760\nwith a fear of failure and a drive for excellence and not knowing anything\n\n124\n00:08:23.760 --> 00:08:24.880\nabout the industry,\n\n125\n00:08:24.880 --> 00:08:31.520\nmy immersive curiosity actually served as an advantage because I really had no\n\n126\n00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:32.640\npredispositions\n\n127\n00:08:32.640 --> 00:08:39.280\nabout what it took to grow a handbag company or brand. I do really understand\n\n128\n00:08:39.280 --> 00:08:40.240\nthe category\n\n129\n00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:47.750\nor the industry, but I was able to apply what I learned over my prior life,\n\n130\n00:08:47.750 --> 00:08:49.120\nparticularly in my\n\n131\n00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:55.370\ngovernment years to coach. And that investigative skill, what are the\n\n132\n00:08:55.370 --> 00:08:56.720\ncomponents of that in your mind?\n\n133\n00:08:57.760 --> 00:09:05.280\nFirst, when I think about a situation, I think about what are the relevant\n\n134\n00:09:05.280 --> 00:09:05.840\nparts,\n\n135\n00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:12.040\nand in the case of a company like coach that produces a physical product, there\n\n136\n00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:12.720\n's the product,\n\n137\n00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:19.430\nthere's the brand, there's the consumer, and there's the marketplace. And I\n\n138\n00:09:19.430 --> 00:09:20.160\nhave always\n\n139\n00:09:21.520 --> 00:09:28.880\nbeen very consumer focused in my life. So when I was in city government, I was\n\n140\n00:09:28.880 --> 00:09:30.000\nat service\n\n141\n00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.590\nto the families and children that received care. So when I went to coach, the\n\n142\n00:09:35.590 --> 00:09:36.640\nfirst thing I wanted\n\n143\n00:09:36.640 --> 00:09:43.680\nto understand was who's buying coach? Why are they buying coach? So during, in\n\n144\n00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:44.800\npreparation as an\n\n145\n00:09:44.800 --> 00:09:51.050\nexample, for an interview, I pretended to be a business week reporter freelance\n\n146\n00:09:51.050 --> 00:09:51.920\n, and I was doing\n\n147\n00:09:51.920 --> 00:09:59.620\na story on emerging small brands. So I spoke to buyers and department store\n\n148\n00:09:59.620 --> 00:10:00.800\nmerchants,\n\n149\n00:10:00.800 --> 00:10:09.080\nBloomingdale's, Bonoitella, Macy's, and they all said to me, product is over\n\n150\n00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:09.680\nsold,\n\n151\n00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:17.100\nit has a strong following. And we always run out of product before Christmas\n\n152\n00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:18.400\nbecause the founder\n\n153\n00:10:18.400 --> 00:10:25.430\nlimits production. And for my last conversation, I went into a handbag store on\n\n154\n00:10:25.430 --> 00:10:26.640\n72nd Street on\n\n155\n00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:33.590\nthe West Side of Manhattan, back in the 70s, and into the 80s, before the\n\n156\n00:10:33.590 --> 00:10:35.440\ndepartment stores became\n\n157\n00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:42.250\ndominant. There were lots of small, family-owned, individual accessory stores,\n\n158\n00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:43.120\nluggage stores,\n\n159\n00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:49.020\nhandbag stores, dress stores, and the alike. And so I go into this store, and I\n\n160\n00:10:49.020 --> 00:10:50.320\n, it's a bag store,\n\n161\n00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:55.280\nand I don't see a coach bag, and I say, do you have any, do you sell coach? And\n\n162\n00:10:55.280 --> 00:10:56.720\nfrom underneath,\n\n163\n00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:02.800\nthe counter, the shop owner takes out a coach bag and says, I only have one bag\n\n164\n00:11:02.800 --> 00:11:04.320\n, and it's reserved.\n\n165\n00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:10.640\nI said, wow, she said there's a cult following. People love their coach. And I\n\n166\n00:11:10.640 --> 00:11:11.440\nchecked off\n\n167\n00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:18.070\nthat box, and it made me really curious to understand why people loved coach.\n\n168\n00:11:18.070 --> 00:11:20.480\nAnd with that\n\n169\n00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:27.820\nbackground, I joined, I joined coach. And so you basically started out as an\n\n170\n00:11:27.820 --> 00:11:28.720\ninvestigative\n\n171\n00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:34.400\nreporter on this company. So what made you really want to make that pivot into\n\n172\n00:11:34.400 --> 00:11:37.520\nthe handbag industry\n\n173\n00:11:37.520 --> 00:11:43.730\nor accessory industry? What drove you to that point? It was entirely serendip\n\n174\n00:11:43.730 --> 00:11:45.280\nitous. The mayor\n\n175\n00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:51.680\nof the city of New York at the time, at Koch, actually had just passed me over\n\n176\n00:11:51.680 --> 00:11:52.720\nfor a promotion,\n\n177\n00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:58.390\nfor a job that I felt with the right leader could really improve quality of\n\n178\n00:11:58.390 --> 00:12:00.000\nservice for New Yorkers.\n\n179\n00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:07.210\nAnd he said to me at the time that I was too principled. I had known him from\n\n180\n00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:07.760\nwhen he was a\n\n181\n00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:14.060\ncongressman, but that's another story. But the short of this is I was sharing a\n\n182\n00:12:14.060 --> 00:12:15.040\ntaxi ride\n\n183\n00:12:15.760 --> 00:12:23.920\nwith a Columbia professor after guest lecturing, at Columbia graduate class,\n\n184\n00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:29.550\nthe work that I had done in coach had turned into a case study. So we shared a\n\n185\n00:12:29.550 --> 00:12:30.320\ntaxi going\n\n186\n00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.880\ndowntown one evening. And he said to me, what do you do for an encore? And I\n\n187\n00:12:34.880 --> 00:12:36.480\nsmiled, said,\n\n188\n00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:43.230\nI don't have the faintest idea. But I would like to go to the private sector,\n\n189\n00:12:43.230 --> 00:12:44.640\nnot as a consultant.\n\n190\n00:12:44.640 --> 00:12:50.240\nI wanted to do something that would combine strategy and execution. I was about\n\n191\n00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:51.280\ngetting things done.\n\n192\n00:12:51.280 --> 00:12:57.470\nAnd he said to me, I have a friend from my childhood who runs a small pocket\n\n193\n00:12:57.470 --> 00:12:58.240\nbook company\n\n194\n00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:05.180\ncalled Koch, and he's looking for a protégé. He's 60 years old, and he wants\n\n195\n00:13:05.180 --> 00:13:06.160\nsomeone with good\n\n196\n00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:12.100\nvalues and would prefer someone from outside the industry. And I said, well,\n\n197\n00:13:12.100 --> 00:13:13.600\nthat fits me, I guess.\n\n198\n00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:21.440\nAnd I went on my first interview. Yeah, and you said that you didn't get this\n\n199\n00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.320\njob before\n\n200\n00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:28.140\nfor the city because Mayor Koch said you were too principled. And then this guy\n\n201\n00:13:28.140 --> 00:13:28.480\nsays, hey,\n\n202\n00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:34.160\nyou've got great values. What did Mayor Koch mean by that being too principled?\n\n203\n00:13:34.160 --> 00:13:35.360\nTell us that story.\n\n204\n00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:40.300\nWhen I ran daycare and head start, I took the job during the city's fiscal\n\n205\n00:13:40.300 --> 00:13:42.000\ncrisis, as I mentioned,\n\n206\n00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:51.490\nin 1976. And the city was in bankruptcy. And the poster child for excessive\n\n207\n00:13:51.490 --> 00:13:52.720\nspending and waste\n\n208\n00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:57.660\nwas daycare and head start. So I knew I was going into a hornet's nest. And I\n\n209\n00:13:57.660 --> 00:13:58.000\nsaid,\n\n210\n00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:04.190\nI will only do this if I don't have political interference, because I need to\n\n211\n00:14:04.190 --> 00:14:04.480\ncall it\n\n212\n00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:11.430\nby the merits. So we developed a set of metrics by which we would determine\n\n213\n00:14:11.430 --> 00:14:13.600\nwhich centers would\n\n214\n00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:18.630\nnot be allowed to continue. And for those centers, of course, we had to find\n\n215\n00:14:18.630 --> 00:14:20.320\nplaces for the children\n\n216\n00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:25.950\nthat were displaced who are eligible. And at the bottom of the list of about\n\n217\n00:14:25.950 --> 00:14:29.200\n350 individual daycare\n\n218\n00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:36.710\ncenters neighborhood run, there was a center in Brooklyn outside of Ed Koch,\n\n219\n00:14:36.710 --> 00:14:37.600\nwho was an upper\n\n220\n00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:43.500\nEast Side Congressman outside of his district. And I got word that he insisted\n\n221\n00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:44.560\non seeing me.\n\n222\n00:14:44.560 --> 00:14:51.510\nAnd he came to my office. I knew why he was coming since intermediary told me.\n\n223\n00:14:51.510 --> 00:14:53.280\nAnd he basically said,\n\n224\n00:14:53.280 --> 00:14:59.520\nthis program is very important to me, Lou. And I said, I understand that,\n\n225\n00:14:59.520 --> 00:15:00.640\nCongressman. However,\n\n226\n00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:06.940\nwhen I look at the facts against other programs, it just doesn't stand up. In\n\n227\n00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:07.600\nfact,\n\n228\n00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:14.390\nit's really in the bottom 10%. And he looked at me and said, I want you to keep\n\n229\n00:15:14.390 --> 00:15:15.520\nthis program open,\n\n230\n00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:21.520\nLou, and walked out. And unfortunately, I wasn't able to do that.\n\n231\n00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:28.140\nHe stuck to your guns. Well, he didn't have any authority over me. It was a\n\n232\n00:15:28.140 --> 00:15:29.040\nCongressman, but\n\n233\n00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:35.920\nlittle did I understand that 18 months later, he would become my boss as mayor\n\n234\n00:15:35.920 --> 00:15:36.720\nof the city of New\n\n235\n00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.780\nYork. Probably one of your biggest breaks, because it took you to coach where\n\n236\n00:15:40.780 --> 00:15:41.440\nyou end up\n\n237\n00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.470\nbecoming, you started out as the market manager, as I understand, and you\n\n238\n00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:47.120\nbecome CEO of this company\n\n239\n00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:53.620\nwithin six years. What's the big lesson you got there in terms of how leaders\n\n240\n00:15:53.620 --> 00:15:54.560\ncan position\n\n241\n00:15:54.560 --> 00:15:58.720\nthemselves for bigger opportunities? Because you were in a small company, but\n\n242\n00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.560\nyou really rose\n\n243\n00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:05.430\nquickly to the top. Well, it was a small company. So there wasn't many levels\n\n244\n00:16:05.430 --> 00:16:07.120\nbetween me and the top.\n\n245\n00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:14.240\nWhat I learned in my early days was what coach could become. I always\n\n246\n00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:20.930\nlooked for a North Star, whether it was in government or now, of course, a\n\n247\n00:16:20.930 --> 00:16:21.680\ncoach. And\n\n248\n00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:27.890\nthe North Star was that coach could be a bigger and stronger business. And I\n\n249\n00:16:27.890 --> 00:16:29.360\nstarted by listening\n\n250\n00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:36.570\nto consumers and how they made decisions to buy things. And there's no product\n\n251\n00:16:36.570 --> 00:16:38.000\nthat's more intimate\n\n252\n00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:45.120\nto a consumer, to a woman than a handbag. She opens it 60, 70 times a day. Her\n\n253\n00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:45.920\nessentials are\n\n254\n00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:52.160\nin there. She touches it, feels it. And what became clear to me by looking at\n\n255\n00:16:52.160 --> 00:16:55.440\nother models. So one\n\n256\n00:16:55.440 --> 00:17:00.890\nthing I did, of course, was look at competition. And there were no American\n\n257\n00:17:00.890 --> 00:17:03.120\nluxury brands. We don't\n\n258\n00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:09.600\nhave a history of luxury brands. We're a country of immigrants. And there were\n\n259\n00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:10.800\nmass brands and\n\n260\n00:17:10.800 --> 00:17:17.050\nthere were European brands, which had very limited distribution in 1980.\n\n261\n00:17:17.050 --> 00:17:18.720\nHowever, one of them,\n\n262\n00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:24.120\nI admired greatly. And that's Louis Vuitton. They had, at the time, I believe\n\n263\n00:17:24.120 --> 00:17:25.520\n20 of their company\n\n264\n00:17:25.520 --> 00:17:31.760\nowned stores. They were able to control their destiny. And when I spoke with\n\n265\n00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:33.040\nconsumers, it became\n\n266\n00:17:33.040 --> 00:17:38.580\nclear that we would be able to have much more control over the future of coach,\n\n267\n00:17:38.580 --> 00:17:39.200\nif we reached\n\n268\n00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:46.140\nconsumers directly. So with the owner's encouragement, I learned the mail or\n\n269\n00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.080\nthe business and started a\n\n270\n00:17:48.080 --> 00:17:54.810\ncatalog business. And shortly afterwards, we opened the first coach store,\n\n271\n00:17:54.810 --> 00:17:55.680\nactually,\n\n272\n00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:03.920\na Madison Avenue in 1981. So two years after I arrived, we already were a multi\n\n273\n00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:04.800\n-channel business.\n\n274\n00:18:04.800 --> 00:18:08.800\nIt was long before people used the term omni-channel.\n\n275\n00:18:08.800 --> 00:18:15.120\nHello, friends. It's Kula. Stay tuned to the very end of the episode. David and\n\n276\n00:18:15.120 --> 00:18:15.520\nI are going to\n\n277\n00:18:15.520 --> 00:18:19.920\ndebrief some of the concepts that he and Lou talk about in their conversation.\n\n278\n00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:20.720\nAnd I'll ask David\n\n279\n00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.110\nhow he applied some of those concepts to his leadership at Young Brands. So the\n\n280\n00:18:24.110 --> 00:18:24.560\ngoal of the\n\n281\n00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:28.540\ndebrief is to really give you something that you can take away and apply to\n\n282\n00:18:28.540 --> 00:18:28.960\nyour work,\n\n283\n00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.880\nto your leadership, and to your life. So stay tuned to the very end so you don\n\n284\n00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.840\n't miss the debrief.\n\n285\n00:18:33.840 --> 00:18:40.460\nYou transformed this company from $6 million to $5 billion and made it a global\n\n286\n00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:41.280\nbrand. And\n\n287\n00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:47.040\none of the things I was really interested in is how you broaden the definition\n\n288\n00:18:47.040 --> 00:18:48.160\nof your business to\n\n289\n00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:55.030\nthis accessible luxury. What did you mean by that? And how did you get the\n\n290\n00:18:55.030 --> 00:18:56.320\nconviction to go after\n\n291\n00:18:56.320 --> 00:19:02.640\nit with the kind of passion that I know you poured into it? Well, by the time\n\n292\n00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:06.560\nthat we went\n\n293\n00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:13.500\npublic, we were already $500 million. And we had been extremely successful in\n\n294\n00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:14.640\nentering Japan and\n\n295\n00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:20.030\nsome other markets. And clearly, we went from a U.S. brand to an international\n\n296\n00:19:20.030 --> 00:19:22.720\nbrand. And what\n\n297\n00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:30.560\nalso became clear to me was that investors would not understand how to value a\n\n298\n00:19:30.560 --> 00:19:31.520\nhandbag business\n\n299\n00:19:31.520 --> 00:19:38.860\nwhen we went public. And we needed to create a much more clear positioning so\n\n300\n00:19:38.860 --> 00:19:39.680\ninvestors would\n\n301\n00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:46.780\nunderstand. Hence, when we looked at bags purchased in the United States, there\n\n302\n00:19:46.780 --> 00:19:48.080\nwere mass brands\n\n303\n00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:53.680\nand they dominated the department's source and specialty stores. And they were\n\n304\n00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:54.320\nbasically\n\n305\n00:19:54.320 --> 00:20:00.560\nimitations of European brands or house labels that the department stores made.\n\n306\n00:20:00.560 --> 00:20:02.000\nAnd they were made\n\n307\n00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:09.840\nwith inexpensive materials in the lowest possible labor country. There was mass\n\n308\n00:20:09.840 --> 00:20:10.160\nand that\n\n309\n00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:20.640\naccounted for probably 95% of units and 80% of dollars. The other 20% was a\n\n310\n00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:23.200\nmixture of small\n\n311\n00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:30.300\nAmerican brands like Coach or Dunie and Burke or Anne Klein or Calderon or Tra\n\n312\n00:20:30.300 --> 00:20:31.360\nfalgar. There were\n\n313\n00:20:31.360 --> 00:20:36.970\na bunch of small handbags and then there was European luxury. What became clear\n\n314\n00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:37.600\nto us when we\n\n315\n00:20:37.600 --> 00:20:43.790\nwere in the conference room was that we were occupying a single lane between\n\n316\n00:20:43.790 --> 00:20:45.360\nmass and luxury.\n\n317\n00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:53.790\nAnd with Americans more interested in brands than ever before, especially women\n\n318\n00:20:53.790 --> 00:20:55.200\n, we saw an\n\n319\n00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:01.440\nopportunity to create a term that would actually identify us. So I don't\n\n320\n00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:02.240\nremember who\n\n321\n00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:10.530\ncoined it. We had 15 or 20 words on the wall and all of a sudden we circled\n\n322\n00:21:10.530 --> 00:21:12.480\naccessible luxury.\n\n323\n00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.920\nWe left the conference room and then I spent the following day defining what\n\n324\n00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.520\naccessible luxury\n\n325\n00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:26.470\nlooks like. And when we went on our roadshow, we were able to help investors,\n\n326\n00:21:26.470 --> 00:21:27.680\nparticularly men\n\n327\n00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:32.580\nwho at the time probably represented 85% of the people on the roadshow\n\n328\n00:21:32.580 --> 00:21:34.880\nunderstand that coach\n\n329\n00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:41.250\nwas a brand that had an emotional attachment with its consumers who are\n\n330\n00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:42.960\nprimarily women.\n\n331\n00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:49.680\nI love that idea of accessible luxury that now you can have that luxury. And\n\n332\n00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.560\nobviously,\n\n333\n00:21:50.560 --> 00:21:54.640\nyou kind of found the sweet spot on value. How did you think about pricing?\n\n334\n00:21:54.640 --> 00:22:01.980\nWhen I started a coach, what became clear to me and I now am getting back to my\n\n335\n00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:03.200\nbasic values\n\n336\n00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:10.320\nthat were a democracy. And I saw democratized luxury as something that would be\n\n337\n00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:11.360\naccessible to\n\n338\n00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:16.800\nmany, many people, not just the top one or three percent of the population, but\n\n339\n00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:17.600\nperhaps the top\n\n340\n00:22:17.600 --> 00:22:23.850\n20% would be the target. And another 20% would be aspirational consumers who\n\n341\n00:22:23.850 --> 00:22:25.040\nwould reach up,\n\n342\n00:22:25.040 --> 00:22:30.530\nsave, to cover a product that would be durable, lasting, that they could\n\n343\n00:22:30.530 --> 00:22:32.160\ndevelop a real relationship\n\n344\n00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:38.640\nwith. So from my values perspective, recognizing America didn't have a history\n\n345\n00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:38.880\nof\n\n346\n00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:46.400\nluxury brands from America, I saw the middle lane as an opportunity, not just\n\n347\n00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:46.960\nfor coach,\n\n348\n00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:51.760\nbut of course, for other brands and other companies.\n\n349\n00:22:51.760 --> 00:22:55.680\nYou know, I've heard you say that brands are like people. You know,\n\n350\n00:22:57.360 --> 00:23:01.340\nwhen you think about coach, and you know, people go through their life cycles\n\n351\n00:23:01.340 --> 00:23:03.760\nand their growth,\n\n352\n00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:08.630\nbut what was the most immature thing about coach that you had to help it out\n\n353\n00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:09.120\ngrow?\n\n354\n00:23:09.120 --> 00:23:16.050\nIts own definition of itself was too self-limiting. I spent a lot of time\n\n355\n00:23:16.050 --> 00:23:18.480\nthinking about possibilities.\n\n356\n00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:25.730\nAnd thinking of, and that's where the magic and logic comes in, bold\n\n357\n00:23:25.730 --> 00:23:26.560\nimagination,\n\n358\n00:23:26.560 --> 00:23:34.870\ncoupled with rigorous data analysis, consumer insights, logic, business metrics\n\n359\n00:23:34.870 --> 00:23:36.080\n, and trying to\n\n360\n00:23:36.080 --> 00:23:42.560\nblend the two to give consumers something that they would appreciate.\n\n361\n00:23:42.560 --> 00:23:48.160\nYou've also said that the time you should run the most scared is when you're\n\n362\n00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:49.120\nthe most successful.\n\n363\n00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.320\nHow did you learn that lesson?\n\n364\n00:23:52.320 --> 00:23:58.940\nI think it's innate to who I am. My drive for excellence and the fear of\n\n365\n00:23:58.940 --> 00:23:59.840\nfailure\n\n366\n00:23:59.840 --> 00:24:05.500\nstill exists through today. I still have failure dreams as impossible as it\n\n367\n00:24:05.500 --> 00:24:06.640\nmight seem.\n\n368\n00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:13.710\nAt least now I don't wake up drenched in sweat like I did for 40 or 50 years\n\n369\n00:24:13.710 --> 00:24:14.800\nbefore.\n\n370\n00:24:14.800 --> 00:24:20.010\nWhen you would wake up drenched with that sweat, can you go back to sleep? What\n\n371\n00:24:20.010 --> 00:24:20.720\nhappened?\n\n372\n00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:27.350\nI would generally have to change my t-shirt if I did sleep with a t-shirt. And\n\n373\n00:24:27.350 --> 00:24:28.080\nvery often,\n\n374\n00:24:28.080 --> 00:24:34.780\nI did not go back to sleep because I was already 435. And like you and most\n\n375\n00:24:34.780 --> 00:24:39.120\nother CEOs, it's a 24/7 job.\n\n376\n00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:44.160\nSo I already got my minimum sleep and I went to work.\n\n377\n00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.150\nIt's interesting. You've mentioned being relentless a few times in this\n\n378\n00:24:48.150 --> 00:24:48.800\nconversation\n\n379\n00:24:48.800 --> 00:24:55.100\nalready. That's part of this relentless nature. How did you make sure that you\n\n380\n00:24:55.100 --> 00:24:55.680\nhired people\n\n381\n00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:00.560\nthat had that same kind of relentless passion that you obviously had?\n\n382\n00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:07.180\nAt the beginning, I started looking. I began by having a screen that everyone\n\n383\n00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:07.920\nhad to\n\n384\n00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:13.520\nmeet. And that could be a part-time sales associate or someone who was part of\n\n385\n00:25:13.520 --> 00:25:14.560\nmy senior leadership\n\n386\n00:25:14.560 --> 00:25:21.550\nteam. You needed a strong work ethic, belief and possibilities. You needed to\n\n387\n00:25:21.550 --> 00:25:22.640\nbe optimistic.\n\n388\n00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:28.630\nYou needed to be collaborative. You needed to be smart. And you needed to want\n\n389\n00:25:28.630 --> 00:25:29.680\nto make a difference.\n\n390\n00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:39.040\nSo belief. And we built a coach, which lasts through today, a culture of smart,\n\n391\n00:25:39.040 --> 00:25:47.680\ndedicated, caring employees. And we provided an environment where we encourage\n\n392\n00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:48.880\npeople to become\n\n393\n00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:54.480\nthe best versions of themselves by providing classes, executive coaching,\n\n394\n00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.400\nfeedback in the moment,\n\n395\n00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.690\netc, etc. It's interesting that belief that you got from your parents. You\n\n396\n00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:04.160\nreally brought\n\n397\n00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:08.610\nforward into what you look for in terms of how you wanted your people to\n\n398\n00:26:08.610 --> 00:26:09.920\nbelieve in themselves\n\n399\n00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:17.600\nand the possibilities for coach. I tried. And I tried today. More than tried.\n\n400\n00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:18.640\nYou mentioned a\n\n401\n00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.830\nlittle bit earlier. And you write about this in your book and I love your book,\n\n402\n00:26:22.830 --> 00:26:23.920\nA Bagman. You talk\n\n403\n00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:32.560\nabout magic plus logic, which is basically your leadership philosophy. Explain\n\n404\n00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:33.520\nmore about that.\n\n405\n00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:41.680\nWhat do you mean by magic plus logic? It's the intersection of art and science\n\n406\n00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.640\nor business\n\n407\n00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:50.540\nand creativity. People refer, use a lot of different terms. We coined that term\n\n408\n00:26:50.540 --> 00:26:51.760\nin 1988.\n\n409\n00:26:51.760 --> 00:26:58.700\nAnd I have a quick story to tell you that might illustrate that point very well\n\n410\n00:26:58.700 --> 00:26:59.200\n.\n\n411\n00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:05.680\nWe recognized in the mid 1980s that Japanese tourists, both in the United\n\n412\n00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.160\nStates,\n\n413\n00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:12.570\nto the United States as well as travelers internationally, really liked coach\n\n414\n00:27:12.570 --> 00:27:13.040\nbags.\n\n415\n00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:20.890\nAnd we also looked at the consumer in Japan and recognized that there was a\n\n416\n00:27:20.890 --> 00:27:22.240\nsocietal\n\n417\n00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:27.840\nshift occurring among young women. After college, they weren't thinking about\n\n418\n00:27:27.840 --> 00:27:28.880\ngetting married\n\n419\n00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.750\nright away. They were thinking of career. They were thinking of travel. They\n\n420\n00:27:33.750 --> 00:27:34.800\nwere thinking of being\n\n421\n00:27:34.800 --> 00:27:41.000\nindependent. In the case of Japan, specifically, there were no local Japanese\n\n422\n00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:42.400\nbrands of any consequence.\n\n423\n00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:50.060\nThe market was $5 billion at the time and it was not growing. It was fully\n\n424\n00:27:50.060 --> 00:27:51.600\noccupied by European\n\n425\n00:27:51.600 --> 00:27:58.300\nluxury brands, which Japanese consumers coveted. So here we were going into\n\n426\n00:27:58.300 --> 00:27:59.920\nJapan wanting to provide\n\n427\n00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:06.790\nan alternative. Getting back to magic and logic, I prepared a presentation for\n\n428\n00:28:06.790 --> 00:28:07.920\nthe chairman of\n\n429\n00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:12.190\nMitra Koshi, who did not speak any English. And we had to translate the\n\n430\n00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:13.840\npresentation, of course,\n\n431\n00:28:13.840 --> 00:28:19.250\ninto Japanese as well, even though they were translators. And I talked about\n\n432\n00:28:19.250 --> 00:28:20.320\nthe great product.\n\n433\n00:28:20.320 --> 00:28:26.640\nAnd the coach was a product that was durable, functional, natural materials\n\n434\n00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:27.520\nthat developed\n\n435\n00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:34.510\na patina over time and that it was priced in a way that would be accessible to\n\n436\n00:28:34.510 --> 00:28:36.480\n60 to 80 percent\n\n437\n00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:42.730\nof Japanese households, not the top 20 because of Japan, even through today,\n\n438\n00:28:42.730 --> 00:28:43.760\nhas a neck-shaped\n\n439\n00:28:43.760 --> 00:28:50.380\neconomy. As you know, primarily middle class, of course, now there's a spike in\n\n440\n00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:52.160\nmany billionaires,\n\n441\n00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:58.400\ntoo, but it is a middle class country. So when we went into Mitra Koshi, one\n\n442\n00:28:58.400 --> 00:28:59.520\npart was the product,\n\n443\n00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:05.230\ndurable, well-made, and functional, the other, and which is the logic. The\n\n444\n00:29:05.230 --> 00:29:07.200\nmagic is the story\n\n445\n00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.840\ntelling and the consumer following. And we had a cult like following that\n\n446\n00:29:11.840 --> 00:29:13.680\nreally grew. People were\n\n447\n00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:18.950\nreally loyal to their coach. We had very strong market share. So we coined the\n\n448\n00:29:18.950 --> 00:29:20.400\nterm magic and logic,\n\n449\n00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:26.070\nblend of magic and logic. We never really got past the cover of the\n\n450\n00:29:26.070 --> 00:29:28.400\npresentation. The founder\n\n451\n00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:34.660\nwas so impressed with the term magic and logic, and using them together, he\n\n452\n00:29:34.660 --> 00:29:35.760\ncalled me magic and\n\n453\n00:29:35.760 --> 00:29:42.690\nlogic for the next 10 years. And we developed a very strong partnership with\n\n454\n00:29:42.690 --> 00:29:44.240\nMitra Koshi, which was\n\n455\n00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:51.570\nthe foundation of building a billion dollar business in Japan. You mentioned\n\n456\n00:29:51.570 --> 00:29:52.080\nthe fact that\n\n457\n00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:59.120\nyou need to blend the magic and the logic. Was there ever a time where the\n\n458\n00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:00.560\nmagic overwhelmed\n\n459\n00:30:00.560 --> 00:30:05.520\nthe logic or the logic overwhelmed the magic? How did you keep that in sync?\n\n460\n00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:07.840\nAnd can you talk\n\n461\n00:30:07.840 --> 00:30:11.820\nabout how you did that as a leader? Because you kind of had this formula now,\n\n462\n00:30:11.820 --> 00:30:13.200\nmagic plus logic,\n\n463\n00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.000\nbut I could see how one could outweigh the other ever now and then. Did that\n\n464\n00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:17.600\never happen?\n\n465\n00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:26.160\nFrequently, of course. It happens when you don't keep track of every aspect of\n\n466\n00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.440\nthe 360 degree\n\n467\n00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:37.040\nexperience of the company and product. When were you doing really well? It was\n\n468\n00:30:37.040 --> 00:30:37.520\nnot time\n\n469\n00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:43.200\nfor complacency or absolutely correct. And we were never complacent. However,\n\n470\n00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.480\nthere was a time\n\n471\n00:30:45.280 --> 00:30:51.040\nwhen we were very dominant in the marketplace, well after we went public,\n\n472\n00:30:51.040 --> 00:30:58.380\nwhen we did not notice an amazing new competitor coming in, copying our\n\n473\n00:30:58.380 --> 00:30:59.760\nplaybook,\n\n474\n00:30:59.760 --> 00:31:06.010\nopening beautiful shiny new stores right next to us. And our stores, by this\n\n475\n00:31:06.010 --> 00:31:06.160\ntime,\n\n476\n00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:12.580\nfelt a little dark and they're like, and we didn't jump on that fast enough in\n\n477\n00:31:12.580 --> 00:31:14.400\nterms of innovation.\n\n478\n00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:23.530\nWho was that competitor? Michael Kors. Michael Kors. That's a very good brand.\n\n479\n00:31:23.530 --> 00:31:23.760\nIt's\n\n480\n00:31:23.760 --> 00:31:28.640\nright in that lane there. You mentioned copycats. I don't know if there's too\n\n481\n00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:28.880\nmany\n\n482\n00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:35.130\nindustries that have more copycats than you. I've spent a lot of time in China.\n\n483\n00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:36.240\nYou would see\n\n484\n00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:42.720\ncopycat everything. How did you deal with that? Well, when we talk about copies\n\n485\n00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:42.720\n,\n\n486\n00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:50.800\nthere's imitations where we call counterfeits. That's one type of copy where\n\n487\n00:31:50.800 --> 00:31:52.080\nthey actually\n\n488\n00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:58.400\nuse the coach name and think they could get away with it. And the other copy is\n\n489\n00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:59.600\npeople who use our\n\n490\n00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:05.840\ntrademark dress to create bags that look strikingly similar to hours that can\n\n491\n00:32:05.840 --> 00:32:06.720\nbe confused in the\n\n492\n00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:16.840\nmarketplace. So we invested heavily in IP. We also would relentless, again, the\n\n493\n00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:17.760\nword relentless,\n\n494\n00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:26.390\nand tracking down people who sold counterfeits or sold bags that were confusing\n\n495\n00:32:26.390 --> 00:32:27.440\nin the marketplace.\n\n496\n00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:35.200\nWe did everything from lawsuits to work with local governments, law enforcement\n\n497\n00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.920\nagencies\n\n498\n00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:43.220\nto ensure that these bags would not be sold and where they were being sold. Of\n\n499\n00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:43.520\ncourse,\n\n500\n00:32:43.520 --> 00:32:49.560\nyou're never perfect, but we made it really hard for these people so they would\n\n501\n00:32:49.560 --> 00:32:50.720\ngo after other brands.\n\n502\n00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:57.520\nNow, you're obviously someone who gets out the marketplace, listens to\n\n503\n00:32:57.520 --> 00:32:59.120\ncustomers, checks out\n\n504\n00:32:59.120 --> 00:33:08.600\ncompetition. When you saw a really good competitive idea, how did you bring\n\n505\n00:33:08.600 --> 00:33:09.760\nthat back to your company?\n\n506\n00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:16.010\nAnd what did you do with it? Did you ever blatantly copy an idea directly and\n\n507\n00:33:16.010 --> 00:33:16.480\njust use\n\n508\n00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:21.350\nthe coach name and just do your version of it? Or how did you think about\n\n509\n00:33:21.350 --> 00:33:23.600\ncompetition and innovation\n\n510\n00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:29.830\nand how you apply it? It's another excellent question. The first word is\n\n511\n00:33:29.830 --> 00:33:31.520\ncarefully. We think about\n\n512\n00:33:31.520 --> 00:33:39.600\ninterpretation carefully. And there were times when we thought that we were\n\n513\n00:33:39.600 --> 00:33:40.560\ninterpreting\n\n514\n00:33:40.560 --> 00:33:50.410\nsomeone else's idea into something that was uniquely coach. And we found by the\n\n515\n00:33:50.410 --> 00:33:51.120\nmarketplace\n\n516\n00:33:52.320 --> 00:33:58.230\nnot purchasing it that they didn't really see this as coach. So over the years,\n\n517\n00:33:58.230 --> 00:33:59.280\nwhat we decided\n\n518\n00:33:59.280 --> 00:34:06.320\nwe would do was be much more rigorous about using our brand codes fully. The\n\n519\n00:34:06.320 --> 00:34:08.080\ntype of detailing,\n\n520\n00:34:08.080 --> 00:34:14.320\nstitching, materials, pockets, everything that made coach coach would have to\n\n521\n00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.720\nbe evident at first\n\n522\n00:34:16.720 --> 00:34:20.960\nglance to a consumer when they picked up the product. The other thing, Lou,\n\n523\n00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:21.920\nwhich is amazing\n\n524\n00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:29.280\nabout your industry is that fashion is constantly changing. You become hot, you\n\n525\n00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:30.080\nbecome cold,\n\n526\n00:34:30.080 --> 00:34:36.380\nit's like there are so many ins and outs and yet coaches this enduring brand\n\n527\n00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:37.520\nthat you've been able\n\n528\n00:34:37.520 --> 00:34:44.560\nto keep relevant. How do you stick to your core but then evolve enough to where\n\n529\n00:34:44.560 --> 00:34:46.800\nyou still stay on\n\n530\n00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:54.160\ntrend? Or do you just see yourself as timeless? We see ourselves as both\n\n531\n00:34:54.160 --> 00:34:56.320\ntimeless and on trend.\n\n532\n00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:02.640\nSo to step back, when you look at the marketplace, consumers have different\n\n533\n00:35:02.640 --> 00:35:09.260\nthings that motivate them. And in the case of clothing and accessories, there\n\n534\n00:35:09.260 --> 00:35:10.000\nare people\n\n535\n00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.130\nthat are functional consumers. They just want a product that's going to do the\n\n536\n00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:15.440\njob. And some\n\n537\n00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:21.760\nconsumers are classic. Some consumers are fashion. Some consumers are fashion\n\n538\n00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:22.800\nistas.\n\n539\n00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:29.780\nAnd understanding your addressable market, who you target in and how is very\n\n540\n00:35:29.780 --> 00:35:30.960\ncrucial so that you\n\n541\n00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.240\ncan develop the type of product, the type of distribution, marketing,\n\n542\n00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:39.040\nstorytelling, presentation\n\n543\n00:35:39.040 --> 00:35:46.610\npositioning. So there's coach looks through today, of course, at consumers in\n\n544\n00:35:46.610 --> 00:35:48.480\nevery conceivable way\n\n545\n00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:55.850\nby demographic, psychographics. Gen Z is a different consumer than a baby bo\n\n546\n00:35:55.850 --> 00:35:58.240\nomer. And knowing\n\n547\n00:35:58.240 --> 00:36:05.760\nwhere the baby boomers live and where on Gen Z shop, very helpful. You've had\n\n548\n00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:07.120\nthis enormous\n\n549\n00:36:07.120 --> 00:36:14.240\nsuccess and you keep topping yourself in your life, which I really admire.\n\n550\n00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:20.560\nAt the same time, you mentioned that you used to wake up with these sweats\n\n551\n00:36:20.560 --> 00:36:21.360\nwhere your t-shirt\n\n552\n00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:26.620\nwould be ringing wet. Were you type of guy that could ever celebrate success? I\n\n553\n00:36:26.620 --> 00:36:26.880\nmean,\n\n554\n00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:32.160\nyou talk a lot about fear driving you, but could you ever give yourself a pat\n\n555\n00:36:32.160 --> 00:36:32.720\non the back?\n\n556\n00:36:32.720 --> 00:36:36.400\nOr how hard was it for you to give other people a pat on the back?\n\n557\n00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:43.190\nGreat, great, great question. Early on, as coach became a substantial business\n\n558\n00:36:43.190 --> 00:36:45.520\nand I filled out\n\n559\n00:36:45.520 --> 00:36:53.280\na leadership team, I brought in a chief people officer who reminded me that\n\n560\n00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.080\nwhen we reached a\n\n561\n00:36:54.080 --> 00:37:03.570\nmilestone, we needed to stop, applaud ourselves, applaud others, and mark these\n\n562\n00:37:03.570 --> 00:37:04.320\nas occasions,\n\n563\n00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:12.640\nas true milestones. And while it wasn't natural to me to begin with, it became\n\n564\n00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:14.640\npart of our culture.\n\n565\n00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:26.240\nAnd I will say, today, I'm much more about moments than I was 50 years ago, or\n\n566\n00:37:26.240 --> 00:37:27.280\n20 years ago,\n\n567\n00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:32.160\nor even 10. Yeah, well, we all grow. I mean, we're all constantly evolving and\n\n568\n00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:32.960\nhopefully trying to\n\n569\n00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:38.240\nget better. And you've said that you could be brutally honest and sometimes you\n\n570\n00:37:38.240 --> 00:37:38.720\nactually would\n\n571\n00:37:38.720 --> 00:37:46.230\ncreate fear just with your directives. Can you share a story of where maybe you\n\n572\n00:37:46.230 --> 00:37:47.120\ntook it a little\n\n573\n00:37:47.120 --> 00:37:52.710\nbit too far and how you recovered after realizing it? I have very high\n\n574\n00:37:52.710 --> 00:37:54.720\nstandards for myself and\n\n575\n00:37:54.720 --> 00:38:01.220\nvery high standards for the people that I work with and develop the leadership\n\n576\n00:38:01.220 --> 00:38:02.640\nteam with similar\n\n577\n00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:11.770\nsimilarly high standards. And a big challenge always for me is meeting with an\n\n578\n00:38:11.770 --> 00:38:13.680\nexecutive who was\n\n579\n00:38:13.680 --> 00:38:22.540\nnot adequately prepared and who was trying to wing it as opposed to saying to\n\n580\n00:38:22.540 --> 00:38:23.200\nme,\n\n581\n00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:32.720\nLou, I'm not ready for this. And earlier in my career, I would know that my\n\n582\n00:38:32.720 --> 00:38:33.360\nblood pressure\n\n583\n00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:38.230\nwould might go up and I might say, you're just not prepared. Let's end the\n\n584\n00:38:38.230 --> 00:38:40.800\nmeeting. Or I could\n\n585\n00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:48.430\neven say worse. And now I'm much more aware of when my body talks to me, if I'm\n\n586\n00:38:48.430 --> 00:38:49.840\nfeeling my heart\n\n587\n00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:56.240\nstarting to race or feeling impatient, I ask myself, why? And what do I want to\n\n588\n00:38:56.240 --> 00:38:57.200\ndo about it? And what's\n\n589\n00:38:57.200 --> 00:39:02.800\nthe best way for the greater good for me to handle it? So I learned over the\n\n590\n00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:05.360\ndecades that you need to\n\n591\n00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:11.610\napply different leadership styles to different situations, of course. That's a\n\n592\n00:39:11.610 --> 00:39:13.200\ntough lesson for\n\n593\n00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:18.090\nus all to learn, but it's so true. And everybody talks about culture, the\n\n594\n00:39:18.090 --> 00:39:19.200\nimportance of culture,\n\n595\n00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:25.450\nthe importance of the work environment, the behaviors that you drive. When you\n\n596\n00:39:25.450 --> 00:39:25.920\nthink about\n\n597\n00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.960\ncoach, what was the single biggest behavior that you felt you had to make sure\n\n598\n00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.000\neverybody in the\n\n599\n00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.720\ncompany knew that you had to execute and it became such a big part of your\n\n600\n00:39:37.720 --> 00:39:38.800\nculture?\n\n601\n00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:47.370\nWhen I joined coach during that very first six years, I worked in a paternal\n\n602\n00:39:47.370 --> 00:39:48.640\nistic culture.\n\n603\n00:39:48.640 --> 00:39:59.430\nThe founder was the boss. He was everything. And he treated people extremely\n\n604\n00:39:59.430 --> 00:40:00.000\nkindly\n\n605\n00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:07.210\nfrom a paternalistic perspective. When we became part of Sarah Lee, I knew I\n\n606\n00:40:07.210 --> 00:40:08.560\nwas in a performance\n\n607\n00:40:09.120 --> 00:40:15.060\nenvironment, and everything would be based upon metrics and achievements. When\n\n608\n00:40:15.060 --> 00:40:16.000\nI made\n\n609\n00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:25.630\nthat transition, I coined the term performance family to describe the type of\n\n610\n00:40:25.630 --> 00:40:26.320\nculture\n\n611\n00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:32.070\nthat we wanted to create. Family meant we wanted people with shared good values\n\n612\n00:40:32.070 --> 00:40:32.080\n,\n\n613\n00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:36.950\nthat we had a greater purpose than just a paycheck. We wanted to build\n\n614\n00:40:36.950 --> 00:40:37.600\nsomething.\n\n615\n00:40:37.600 --> 00:40:45.790\nWe had belief, strong work ethic. And anyone who tried and was successful bound\n\n616\n00:40:45.790 --> 00:40:47.280\nless opportunities,\n\n617\n00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:55.440\nsomeone who tried but wasn't successful, we needed to exit them in the way that\n\n618\n00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:55.920\nwe would\n\n619\n00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:03.920\nlike to be exited if it did not work. So over time, people understood that we\n\n620\n00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:05.040\nhad a collaborative\n\n621\n00:41:05.040 --> 00:41:11.670\nenvironment. We were looking to help people perform at the very best levels,\n\n622\n00:41:11.670 --> 00:41:12.800\ncoaching them,\n\n623\n00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:18.400\ntraining them. But if they did not perform, we needed to separate them and\n\n624\n00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:19.360\nseparate them\n\n625\n00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:23.400\nin the way that we would like to be separated if that was the case. So over\n\n626\n00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:24.800\ntime, we became a\n\n627\n00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:30.520\nperformance culture. The interesting thing that's going on, obviously, in the\n\n628\n00:41:30.520 --> 00:41:31.360\nworld today, Lou,\n\n629\n00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:38.080\nis AI and artificial intelligence. You're in such a creative environment. I\n\n630\n00:41:38.080 --> 00:41:38.640\nthink about\n\n631\n00:41:38.640 --> 00:41:46.800\nyour industry. How much do you see AI impacting your industry or do you?\n\n632\n00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:52.030\nIt's going to permeate everything we do to the extent it doesn't even do so\n\n633\n00:41:52.030 --> 00:41:52.800\ntoday.\n\n634\n00:41:54.720 --> 00:42:01.830\nSo when I think of some of the logic that we use from a data collection\n\n635\n00:42:01.830 --> 00:42:03.360\nperspective,\n\n636\n00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:10.700\nconsumer insights perspective, I believe that AI will really be able to\n\n637\n00:42:10.700 --> 00:42:12.160\naccelerate our learning,\n\n638\n00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:21.360\nsimplify it. But at the same time, hopefully not homogenize us.\n\n639\n00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:26.000\nAnd how do you as a leader, how have you gotten yourself up to speed? You're\n\n640\n00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:27.200\ncurious, obviously.\n\n641\n00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:30.850\nYou've got this investigative mindset. How have you gotten yourself up to speed\n\n642\n00:42:30.850 --> 00:42:32.880\non AI and what it\n\n643\n00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:43.440\ncan mean? I will say insufficiently so far. And I'm just blown away by what AI\n\n644\n00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:45.440\nis doing today\n\n645\n00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:52.780\nand will do tomorrow. I think it's unknown as to how much it will affect us\n\n646\n00:42:52.780 --> 00:42:54.400\nbeyond just the workplace.\n\n647\n00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:02.800\nAnd how do you think about, as a leader, getting more up to speed, what do you\n\n648\n00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:03.920\nsee doing?\n\n649\n00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:13.600\nFirst, at this stage of my career, I look to find people who are almost AI\n\n650\n00:43:13.600 --> 00:43:14.560\nnatives,\n\n651\n00:43:14.560 --> 00:43:22.080\npeople who are in their 20s and 30s, who are actively in the learning curve and\n\n652\n00:43:22.080 --> 00:43:24.960\ndeploy them\n\n653\n00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:30.230\nwithin the companies where we work, either as employees or freelance or\n\n654\n00:43:30.230 --> 00:43:31.280\nagencies.\n\n655\n00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:37.680\nThat makes a lot of sense. I love how you keep evolving as a leader. Do you\n\n656\n00:43:37.680 --> 00:43:38.800\nhave a process that\n\n657\n00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:44.410\nyou use yourself that ensures the self-reflection you have to have to take your\n\n658\n00:43:44.410 --> 00:43:45.920\ngame to the next level?\n\n659\n00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:55.410\nIt's less a process than a habit or routine. Every day, virtually every day, I\n\n660\n00:43:55.410 --> 00:43:56.480\nthink about what\n\n661\n00:43:56.480 --> 00:44:03.520\nI could have done differently and better. I live in a multi-generational\n\n662\n00:44:03.520 --> 00:44:04.320\nhousehold\n\n663\n00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.680\nwhere we're very active and I work with many private equity companies and I\n\n664\n00:44:09.680 --> 00:44:11.680\npush people to help\n\n665\n00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:19.190\nme understand how I could be more effective with them. And I'm always looking\n\n666\n00:44:19.190 --> 00:44:20.000\nto learn.\n\n667\n00:44:20.000 --> 00:44:24.870\nWhat's the biggest thing you're working on right now? I'm going to say my\n\n668\n00:44:24.870 --> 00:44:26.000\nmemoir, actually.\n\n669\n00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:32.300\nThat's good. And you've got a lot to share. You know, this has been so much fun\n\n670\n00:44:32.300 --> 00:44:33.200\nand I want\n\n671\n00:44:33.200 --> 00:44:36.250\nto have some more with my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for\n\n672\n00:44:36.250 --> 00:44:37.040\nthis? Sure.\n\n673\n00:44:37.040 --> 00:44:43.930\nThe three words to best describe you. Relentless, curious, watches their own\n\n674\n00:44:43.930 --> 00:44:44.720\nbeat.\n\n675\n00:44:44.720 --> 00:44:49.030\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? Franklin\n\n676\n00:44:49.030 --> 00:44:50.320\nDelano Roosevelt.\n\n677\n00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:56.800\nYour biggest pet peeve, the lack of value-driven leadership and many of the\n\n678\n00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:57.760\npeople who are in\n\n679\n00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:03.510\nvery senior positions, both in companies and in government. Who would play you\n\n680\n00:45:03.510 --> 00:45:04.320\nin a movie?\n\n681\n00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:09.600\nMaybe you could play me in a movie. Not good looking enough. What's the most\n\n682\n00:45:09.600 --> 00:45:10.640\nunlikely place\n\n683\n00:45:10.640 --> 00:45:15.840\nyou've ever spotted a coach bag? When I was in China visiting the Great Wall\n\n684\n00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:17.760\nvery early in our days\n\n685\n00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:24.000\nbefore a coach really had any major business, seeing a coach bag carried by a\n\n686\n00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:24.560\nChinese\n\n687\n00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:29.440\ntourist visiting the Great Wall. And I, of course, approached there at the time\n\n688\n00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:30.000\nand\n\n689\n00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:35.250\nsaid, \"Where did you get the bag?\" And I did have someone who spoke Mandarin\n\n690\n00:45:35.250 --> 00:45:36.080\nwith me.\n\n691\n00:45:36.080 --> 00:45:40.520\nThat's awesome. Something you'd only know about the Bronx if you were from the\n\n692\n00:45:40.520 --> 00:45:41.120\nBronx.\n\n693\n00:45:41.120 --> 00:45:49.360\nThe Bronx is a microcosm of the world and the diversity, the richness,\n\n694\n00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:55.110\nhow you can have a happy childhood without that much. What's the one thing you\n\n695\n00:45:55.110 --> 00:45:56.240\ndo just for you?\n\n696\n00:45:56.240 --> 00:46:00.800\nI play speed chess. Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?\n\n697\n00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:05.760\nI actually don't have a most prized possession besides my family.\n\n698\n00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:10.350\nThe best leadership lesson you've learned from being a grandfather of eight\n\n699\n00:46:10.350 --> 00:46:11.760\ngrandchildren.\n\n700\n00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:18.560\nEvery child has to find his or her own path and they develop in different ways,\n\n701\n00:46:18.560 --> 00:46:23.200\nat different rates. If I turn on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n702\n00:46:23.200 --> 00:46:28.160\nProbably news. What's something about you a few people would know?\n\n703\n00:46:28.160 --> 00:46:36.080\nMany of the things I discuss about me in \"Bad Man,\" my book. What's one of your\n\n704\n00:46:36.080 --> 00:46:37.120\ndaily rituals,\n\n705\n00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:41.360\nsomething that you never miss? Achieving at least 8,000 steps.\n\n706\n00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:44.560\nAll right. That's great. All right, Lou, we're out of the lightning round. I\n\n707\n00:46:44.560 --> 00:46:45.440\njust got a few more\n\n708\n00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.420\nquestions here and we'll wrap this thing up. You and your wife, Bobby, you have\n\n709\n00:46:49.420 --> 00:46:49.920\nthree kids.\n\n710\n00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:55.360\nWhat's something about leadership that you've taken from the office to how you\n\n711\n00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:56.000\nlead at home?\n\n712\n00:46:56.800 --> 00:47:04.640\nThere's a variety of things. One example is understanding the whole idea\n\n713\n00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:10.170\nof parking lots and compartmentalization. One of the things everyone has great\n\n714\n00:47:10.170 --> 00:47:10.560\nideas\n\n715\n00:47:10.560 --> 00:47:16.000\nand everyone wants to implement these ideas now. I developed the concept of\n\n716\n00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.200\nparking lot where\n\n717\n00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:22.560\nyou can park ideas, short-term parking lot, medium-term or long-term. With each\n\n718\n00:47:22.560 --> 00:47:24.000\nparking,\n\n719\n00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.870\nwhenever you put your car in the parking lot, you memorialize the date you're\n\n720\n00:47:28.870 --> 00:47:30.160\ngoing to pick it up.\n\n721\n00:47:30.160 --> 00:47:39.280\nThis allows me the ability to forget about it for the most part, knowing I'm\n\n722\n00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:40.080\ngoing to pick it up\n\n723\n00:47:40.080 --> 00:47:47.120\nonce it's memorialized. I apply the parking lot theory at home too when someone\n\n724\n00:47:47.120 --> 00:47:48.080\ncomes up with a\n\n725\n00:47:48.080 --> 00:47:53.420\ngreat idea. I might say it's a great idea or why don't we get back to it some\n\n726\n00:47:53.420 --> 00:47:54.560\nother time.\n\n727\n00:47:54.560 --> 00:48:01.900\nA second idea is skirmishes, battles and wars. I'm very keenly aware, both at\n\n728\n00:48:01.900 --> 00:48:03.520\nwork and at home,\n\n729\n00:48:03.520 --> 00:48:12.400\nthat a skirmish can turn into an unexpected war like that. With children,\n\n730\n00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:13.680\ngrandchildren,\n\n731\n00:48:13.680 --> 00:48:19.200\nwith employees and colleagues and external relationships, when there's a\n\n732\n00:48:19.200 --> 00:48:19.760\nconflict,\n\n733\n00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:26.010\nyou really need to be very conscious of how you want to resolve the conflict so\n\n734\n00:48:26.010 --> 00:48:26.960\nthat there isn't\n\n735\n00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:33.360\nunintended consequences. With grandkids growing up, I encourage my kids to\n\n736\n00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.360\nunderstand the movement\n\n737\n00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:41.600\ntowards independence is innate. It's going to happen. No different than when I\n\n738\n00:48:41.600 --> 00:48:41.760\ncompare\n\n739\n00:48:42.720 --> 00:48:48.400\na brand to a person and you need to give kids room. If they want to stay up an\n\n740\n00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:49.600\nextra half an hour\n\n741\n00:48:49.600 --> 00:48:54.080\nor they want to do something different, you have to decide whether this is the\n\n742\n00:48:54.080 --> 00:48:55.520\ntime to confront it\n\n743\n00:48:55.520 --> 00:49:01.230\nor to let it go because you want to build up collateral to avoid bigger\n\n744\n00:49:01.230 --> 00:49:02.400\nproblems.\n\n745\n00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:07.270\nThere's some real wisdom there. When you think about your wife, Bobby, what\n\n746\n00:49:07.270 --> 00:49:08.000\nwould be the biggest\n\n747\n00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:13.360\nleadership lesson she's taught you? Consistency. She's always been there as CEO\n\n748\n00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:14.640\nof my family\n\n749\n00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:20.960\nand CEO of our own business for 20 years plus through many other things with\n\n750\n00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:21.440\npurpose.\n\n751\n00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:26.550\nNext question here. What do you see now as your unfinished business? You've\n\n752\n00:49:26.550 --> 00:49:28.080\ndone so much. What's next?\n\n753\n00:49:28.640 --> 00:49:36.560\nHave more moments and enjoy my life. It's all about relationships and purpose.\n\n754\n00:49:36.560 --> 00:49:38.240\nA combination of\n\n755\n00:49:38.240 --> 00:49:45.750\ndoing good as I define it, trying to help brands grow, businesses grow, build\n\n756\n00:49:45.750 --> 00:49:46.400\nleadership teams\n\n757\n00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:53.740\nand the alike. Also, enjoy living. It's all about the journey. It's not the\n\n758\n00:49:53.740 --> 00:49:55.520\ndestiny. We all have the\n\n759\n00:49:55.520 --> 00:50:06.360\nsame destination. So as my son has been urging me for 20 plus years, it's all\n\n760\n00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:07.600\nabout moments.\n\n761\n00:50:07.600 --> 00:50:15.120\nSo more special times travel, trying different things, exploration.\n\n762\n00:50:15.120 --> 00:50:18.800\nLast question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be\n\n763\n00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:19.840\na better leader?\n\n764\n00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:29.850\nBe vulnerable. Be open. Put your ego at bay. Really work hard to hold two antit\n\n765\n00:50:29.850 --> 00:50:31.120\nhetical views in your\n\n766\n00:50:31.120 --> 00:50:36.420\nmind. Understand the world does not black and white. There's all shades of gray\n\n767\n00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:39.040\n. And understand\n\n768\n00:50:39.040 --> 00:50:44.840\nwhen you need to be decisive or when you need to step back. And the other thing\n\n769\n00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:45.760\nI would say\n\n770\n00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:52.000\nfrom a mental health perspective, listen to your body. If you're feeling down\n\n771\n00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.320\nor you have backache\n\n772\n00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:02.710\nor neckache or you need to understand that your psychological mental stress\n\n773\n00:51:02.710 --> 00:51:04.160\nmanifests physically\n\n774\n00:51:04.160 --> 00:51:08.550\nand you need to have balance in your life, particularly when your body is\n\n775\n00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:10.080\ntelling you you're not getting\n\n776\n00:51:10.080 --> 00:51:14.280\nit. Well Lou, I have to tell you this has been such a treat for me to have the\n\n777\n00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:16.080\nopportunity to talk to\n\n778\n00:51:16.080 --> 00:51:22.320\nyou. You're an icon in the world of retail, the world of consumer goods. It's\n\n779\n00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:23.760\neasy to understand\n\n780\n00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:28.840\nwhy. I want to thank you for imparting the wisdom that you provided today. It's\n\n781\n00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:30.240\nbeen terrific.\n\n782\n00:51:30.240 --> 00:51:38.160\nIt's fun talking with a fellow traveler. You're right about that.\n\n783\n00:51:40.720 --> 00:51:50.210\nDavid, Lou Frankfort is iconic. How did you get him on the show? I love that\n\n784\n00:51:50.210 --> 00:51:53.440\nguy, the back man.\n\n785\n00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:58.740\nI get a lot of great people on this show. I'm glad you like him so much, but I\n\n786\n00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:59.840\nand I know he's\n\n787\n00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:04.880\ngot a great reputation. He's iconic, but man, I got to hear what really blew\n\n788\n00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:05.760\nyou away.\n\n789\n00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:13.270\nI think it's partly his accent from being from the Bronx. Secondly, the brand\n\n790\n00:52:13.270 --> 00:52:14.400\ncoach takes me back\n\n791\n00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:19.760\nto when I was 12 years old and I was allowed to finally get a purse. Oh well,\n\n792\n00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:20.480\nyou could finally\n\n793\n00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:25.520\nafford one because they had accessible luxury. Accessible luxury, that's right.\n\n794\n00:52:25.520 --> 00:52:27.200\nI loved this\n\n795\n00:52:27.200 --> 00:52:32.240\nbrand when I was 12 years old. They've had honestly quite the comeback recently\n\n796\n00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:33.200\n. I feel like I see\n\n797\n00:52:33.200 --> 00:52:38.800\ncoach all over TikTok and Instagram. They just did a collab with the cast from\n\n798\n00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:38.880\nthe\n\n799\n00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:42.140\nsummer I turned pretty, which David, if you don't know what that is, your\n\n800\n00:52:42.140 --> 00:52:42.960\ngranddaughter's\n\n801\n00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:47.830\ncertainly well. It's a big deal. The coach had a collab with Belly from the\n\n802\n00:52:47.830 --> 00:52:48.720\nsummer I turned pretty\n\n803\n00:52:48.720 --> 00:52:52.930\nand it's just all over the place. And Lou is the guy that we all get to thank\n\n804\n00:52:52.930 --> 00:52:53.520\nfor this.\n\n805\n00:52:53.520 --> 00:52:58.560\nYeah. Well, I might take issue with the word comeback because I think they've\n\n806\n00:52:58.560 --> 00:52:59.440\nbeen on a major\n\n807\n00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:03.680\nrole ever since he took over the brand. I mean, he's grown into this huge\n\n808\n00:53:03.680 --> 00:53:05.760\nglobal business and\n\n809\n00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:10.630\nhe's found the sweet spot in marketing. He's found that point where when you\n\n810\n00:53:10.630 --> 00:53:11.760\nbuy a coach bag,\n\n811\n00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:16.680\nit says something very positive about you. And you can buy that bag at an\n\n812\n00:53:16.680 --> 00:53:18.000\naffordable price.\n\n813\n00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:26.390\nSo when you can give people the sense that they're making an upgraded statement\n\n814\n00:53:26.390 --> 00:53:27.200\nabout what they're\n\n815\n00:53:27.200 --> 00:53:34.320\nall about at an affordable price, that's magic. I mean, I think when he took\n\n816\n00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:35.840\nover a CEO, I think\n\n817\n00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:39.870\nthey were doing like six million dollars a year in revenue and now they're at\n\n818\n00:53:39.870 --> 00:53:41.520\nlike five billion.\n\n819\n00:53:41.520 --> 00:53:45.840\nSo this is not just like a boom here or there. I mean, this is significant\n\n820\n00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:47.840\ngrowth that he's been\n\n821\n00:53:47.840 --> 00:53:51.870\nable to lead over the past 20 years. And I'm curious, David, like when you hear\n\n822\n00:53:51.870 --> 00:53:52.560\nthat stat\n\n823\n00:53:53.120 --> 00:53:57.990\nand after you interview a guy like Lou, what strikes you about what he's been\n\n824\n00:53:57.990 --> 00:53:58.560\nable to do\n\n825\n00:53:58.560 --> 00:54:02.480\nat coach and his leadership style? Well, first of all, I think he defined what\n\n826\n00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:03.280\nthe coach brand is.\n\n827\n00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:09.680\nAnd in fashion, that's really, really important. It's important for every brand\n\n828\n00:54:09.680 --> 00:54:09.680\n,\n\n829\n00:54:09.680 --> 00:54:14.070\nbut in fashion, you really got to stand for something. And because once you\n\n830\n00:54:14.070 --> 00:54:14.720\nstand for it,\n\n831\n00:54:14.720 --> 00:54:21.340\nit's really hard to stand for something else. So you better pick something that\n\n832\n00:54:21.340 --> 00:54:22.080\npeople really\n\n833\n00:54:22.080 --> 00:54:26.960\nwant and they're going to want for a long time. And so what he did is he stayed\n\n834\n00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:27.280\ntrue\n\n835\n00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:34.620\nto the coach brand throughout those 20 years, but he made it culturally\n\n836\n00:54:34.620 --> 00:54:35.600\nrelevant throughout,\n\n837\n00:54:35.600 --> 00:54:41.400\njust like he's just doing with the collaboration with the movie you just talked\n\n838\n00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:41.760\nabout.\n\n839\n00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:48.160\nThat's how you keep an iconic brand culturally relevant. And that's what I\n\n840\n00:54:48.160 --> 00:54:49.600\nthink he's done over time.\n\n841\n00:54:49.600 --> 00:54:54.000\nYeah, it's so good. When he talked about first starting at coach, he mentioned\n\n842\n00:54:54.000 --> 00:54:54.240\nhow\n\n843\n00:54:54.240 --> 00:54:59.570\nimportant to him having an investigative skill set is. And you ask him, you\n\n844\n00:54:59.570 --> 00:55:01.040\nknow, what is this\n\n845\n00:55:01.040 --> 00:55:03.930\ninvestigative skill set? I've never heard another leader talk about it like\n\n846\n00:55:03.930 --> 00:55:05.360\nthat. And basically,\n\n847\n00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:09.920\nhe says he went undercover as a reporter asking all of these department stores\n\n848\n00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:10.720\nand retail stores\n\n849\n00:55:10.720 --> 00:55:15.910\nwhat they thought about coach. And I just love that he kind of carried that\n\n850\n00:55:15.910 --> 00:55:18.800\nsame curiosity into\n\n851\n00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:24.160\neverything he did at coach. And David, I'm curious, like when you hear someone\n\n852\n00:55:24.160 --> 00:55:24.720\nsay,\n\n853\n00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:28.310\nOh, I have great investigative skills. What do you like? What do you say to\n\n854\n00:55:28.310 --> 00:55:28.800\nthat?\n\n855\n00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:35.100\nI love that phrase. It's a great way to really characterize what I think the\n\n856\n00:55:35.100 --> 00:55:35.840\nbest leaders in the\n\n857\n00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:42.080\nworld do. You know, they're very curious. And when they go in to talk to\n\n858\n00:55:42.080 --> 00:55:43.840\ncustomers and their people,\n\n859\n00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:49.580\nthey're looking for the truth. So they ask questions. They ask questions that\n\n860\n00:55:49.580 --> 00:55:50.160\nbring out\n\n861\n00:55:50.160 --> 00:55:55.030\nthe truth that help them define the reality that the company really needs to\n\n862\n00:55:55.030 --> 00:55:56.000\nface. It helps them\n\n863\n00:55:56.000 --> 00:56:00.450\nreally define the opportunities that are that are out there. And I think when\n\n864\n00:56:00.450 --> 00:56:01.200\nyou have an\n\n865\n00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:08.800\ninvestigative mind, a curious mind, I got to tell you, you know, you're on your\n\n866\n00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:09.760\nway to\n\n867\n00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:15.600\nsuccess, because you want to find the truth and nothing but the truth. And I\n\n868\n00:56:15.600 --> 00:56:16.240\nlove that. And you\n\n869\n00:56:16.240 --> 00:56:21.370\nknow, by the way, I just went to Ken Langone's 90th birthday party. Ken Langone\n\n870\n00:56:21.370 --> 00:56:22.640\nis the co-founder\n\n871\n00:56:22.640 --> 00:56:29.080\nof Home Depot. We did a fantastic podcast together a couple of times. The guy\n\n872\n00:56:29.080 --> 00:56:30.400\nis great.\n\n873\n00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.860\nYou want to talk about a investigative, curious mind. I mean, he's got this in\n\n874\n00:56:35.860 --> 00:56:38.240\nspade. And you know,\n\n875\n00:56:38.240 --> 00:56:43.520\nthat's that's what that's what I always find in all the all the great leaders.\n\n876\n00:56:43.520 --> 00:56:48.980\nWhat I thought was also really interesting about what Lou credits some of his\n\n877\n00:56:48.980 --> 00:56:49.520\nown success\n\n878\n00:56:49.520 --> 00:56:55.270\nto is he says he has a very intense fear of failure. So much so that, you know,\n\n879\n00:56:55.270 --> 00:56:56.240\nhe used to wake up\n\n880\n00:56:56.240 --> 00:56:59.890\nlike drenched in sweat and would wake up in the middle that I had to change his\n\n881\n00:56:59.890 --> 00:57:00.640\npajamas because\n\n882\n00:57:00.640 --> 00:57:05.740\nhe was so scared in his sleep that he would just sweat through his clothes. And\n\n883\n00:57:05.740 --> 00:57:06.160\nyou know,\n\n884\n00:57:06.160 --> 00:57:09.820\nwe talk a lot about failure and how failure is information and you learn from\n\n885\n00:57:09.820 --> 00:57:10.240\nit and all these\n\n886\n00:57:10.240 --> 00:57:16.950\nthings. But I've never really heard a leader talk about having a fear of\n\n887\n00:57:16.950 --> 00:57:19.280\nfailure in a way that was\n\n888\n00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:25.580\nthat led to such success. So I'm curious, David, when you like assess Lou and\n\n889\n00:57:25.580 --> 00:57:26.400\nyou hear him talk\n\n890\n00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:30.330\nabout how this fear of failure is what leads him to success, what do you what's\n\n891\n00:57:30.330 --> 00:57:31.040\nyour take on that?\n\n892\n00:57:31.040 --> 00:57:35.680\nThat's that's really interesting. Cool. Because I've had the good fortune to\n\n893\n00:57:35.680 --> 00:57:37.200\nattend a number of CEO\n\n894\n00:57:37.200 --> 00:57:41.760\ndinners and round tables. And one of the questions, you know, we often get is\n\n895\n00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.080\nwhat drives you the\n\n896\n00:57:44.080 --> 00:57:50.950\nfear of failure or the joyous success. And as you go around the table, if you\n\n897\n00:57:50.950 --> 00:57:52.160\nhad, you know,\n\n898\n00:57:52.160 --> 00:57:57.440\n10 people at the table, I don't know, it might be five to five. You know, many\n\n899\n00:57:57.440 --> 00:57:58.560\npeople are driven\n\n900\n00:57:58.560 --> 00:58:04.800\nby the fear of failure. They just can't stand the thought of of of failing and\n\n901\n00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:05.920\nand and going through\n\n902\n00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:10.790\nwhatever humiliation that might bring your way. And then others are driven by\n\n903\n00:58:10.790 --> 00:58:12.160\nthis joy of success\n\n904\n00:58:12.160 --> 00:58:18.960\nthat they just love winning. And they love, you know, competing and and and\n\n905\n00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:20.480\nsucceeding. Now,\n\n906\n00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:27.300\nI have never lost a lot of sleep because of fear of failure. Never have, you\n\n907\n00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:28.080\nknow, what really\n\n908\n00:58:28.080 --> 00:58:34.780\ndrives me is the joy of winning. I just I love competing. And that's that that\n\n909\n00:58:34.780 --> 00:58:35.840\nto me is what\n\n910\n00:58:35.840 --> 00:58:43.170\nmakes business fun is just the the competitive aspect of it. Now I hate to lose\n\n911\n00:58:43.170 --> 00:58:44.960\n. I hate to lose.\n\n912\n00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:49.950\nAnd I hate to lose so much. I'm driven by the joy of winning. So I don't know\n\n913\n00:58:49.950 --> 00:58:51.600\nwhat comes first.\n\n914\n00:58:51.600 --> 00:58:54.700\nI really don't. And that's why I think maybe it's five to five when I think\n\n915\n00:58:54.700 --> 00:58:56.160\nabout it. I don't know.\n\n916\n00:58:56.160 --> 00:59:00.600\nI mean, I'm sure the people that have the fear of failure that they want to win\n\n917\n00:59:00.600 --> 00:59:01.280\ntoo. It's just\n\n918\n00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:06.530\nwhat drives you. I'm motivated by winning, not by having other people think I\n\n919\n00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:07.520\nfailed.\n\n920\n00:59:07.520 --> 00:59:10.800\nIt's interesting because when you think about the type of mindset that being\n\n921\n00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.680\nafraid of failing\n\n922\n00:59:11.680 --> 00:59:15.820\nwould put you in versus the mindset that the joy of winning would put you in, I\n\n923\n00:59:15.820 --> 00:59:16.400\nimagine that\n\n924\n00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:20.790\nthose are somewhat different. And I guess, I mean, to your point, they might\n\n925\n00:59:20.790 --> 00:59:22.800\nlead to the same result.\n\n926\n00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:27.670\nOh, I think they do lead to the same result. And and they're probably\n\n927\n00:59:27.670 --> 00:59:29.760\nintertwined to a certain\n\n928\n00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:34.180\nextent. You know, you can't really separate them. But I'm glad that I did not\n\n929\n00:59:34.180 --> 00:59:34.800\nhave lose\n\n930\n00:59:34.800 --> 00:59:40.340\nproblem. I'm glad I did not have a wet bed. Okay, because for my sweat, okay, I\n\n931\n00:59:40.340 --> 00:59:40.960\n'm glad.\n\n932\n00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:48.720\nAnd if I was living right now, we'd be laughing about that. And I guarantee you\n\n933\n00:59:48.720 --> 00:59:49.280\n, he is one\n\n934\n00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:53.310\ncompetitive guy and he loves what he does. So, you know, we would have a lot of\n\n935\n00:59:53.310 --> 00:59:54.320\nfun laughing about that.\n\n936\n00:59:54.320 --> 01:00:01.110\nLou Frankfort, what an icon. This is such a great episode, David. And not just\n\n937\n01:00:01.110 --> 01:00:01.840\nbecause\n\n938\n01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:07.120\nLou's Bronx accent is incredible. You pull out incredible stories from him. And\n\n939\n01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:08.080\nLou, I mean,\n\n940\n01:00:08.080 --> 01:00:12.060\nhe worked in local government in New York for a number of years. He helped a\n\n941\n01:00:12.060 --> 01:00:12.560\npreschool get off\n\n942\n01:00:12.560 --> 01:00:16.510\nthe ground. I mean, this guy is just fascinating. And they took all that to a\n\n943\n01:00:16.510 --> 01:00:17.200\nhandbag company\n\n944\n01:00:17.200 --> 01:00:22.140\nand blew it out of the water. So I just, I love this story. I love this episode\n\n945\n01:00:22.140 --> 01:00:22.400\n.\n\n946\n01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.680\nHe's proof positive of what a curious mind can do. He had curiosity and then\n\n947\n01:00:27.680 --> 01:00:29.120\ntook that curiosity,\n\n948\n01:00:29.120 --> 01:00:35.360\ntook the learning that he had and put it into action. And he is the definition\n\n949\n01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:36.000\nof what I would\n\n950\n01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:39.980\ncall an active learner. Well, as we end this episode, I really encourage you,\n\n951\n01:00:39.980 --> 01:00:40.640\nif you're listening or\n\n952\n01:00:40.640 --> 01:00:44.580\nwatching this on YouTube, to think about one thing from Lou's episode that you\n\n953\n01:00:44.580 --> 01:00:45.200\nreally want to take\n\n954\n01:00:45.200 --> 01:00:49.760\nwith you into the next week, whether it is into your personal life or into your\n\n955\n01:00:49.760 --> 01:00:50.480\nleadership or\n\n956\n01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:55.130\ninto your work, there's so many great perspectives and points of view that Lou\n\n957\n01:00:55.130 --> 01:00:56.240\noffers in this episode.\n\n958\n01:00:56.240 --> 01:01:00.080\nSo I really just challenge you to choose one and see what it does for you.\n\n959\n01:01:00.080 --> 01:01:04.240\nSo here's one thing I think everybody that's listening should do. Be curious\n\n960\n01:01:04.240 --> 01:01:04.960\nthis week.\n\n961\n01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:09.320\nWhat can you learn more about? Where can you go do your own investigative\n\n962\n01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:10.320\nskills? And let's see\n\n963\n01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:13.790\nwhat you come up with and let's see how you can put it to you and make it\n\n964\n01:01:13.790 --> 01:01:15.360\nactive in your business.\n\n965\n01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.790\nWell, that does it for our episode of How Leaders Lead. Tune in next week and\n\n966\n01:01:19.790 --> 01:01:20.960\nwe'll see you soon.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL5421034710.mp3","dx_media_id",2537,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2025-10-23","itunes_episode_id",262,"youtube_id","5xMn5ukoIX8","2025-10-23T15:10:21.000000Z","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/b8IO5eUNtIPJxGgIxPTPw8FjvgnJhFb4u8Su8nBh.mp3","dx_filename","b8IO5eUNtIPJxGgIxPTPw8FjvgnJhFb4u8Su8nBh.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","ox101BJNqQ9HPMYVFoaj4VgD5hr001XTUyDm6CCkZRqqM","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/2537.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",3689996,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/5xMn5ukoIX8/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_95":79,"_96":77,"_97":-5,"_31":81,"_33":98,"_99":-5,"_100":83,"_86":87,"_101":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","H7TZEgZezvtHGHdVonIzOp3XplWk8qFKJqbzjd3HlxM","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Lew","last_name","Frankfort","job_title","Coach, Chairman Emeritus and Former CEO","Lew Frankfort, CEO, Coach, fashion","external_links","https://www.linkedin.com/in/lew-frankfort",0,"image_media_id",2502,2503,"2026-07-20T20:41:43.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/XX7LQ1p5QRuT0lhMr1vwsyddh4EyU2BX80g91bLD.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/zeEeEhCpSyjYiuAQI44LWlWkLTS6HdSkVOZCmhag.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/250/lew-frankfort","industry_id",4,"industry",{"_13":122,"_133":134,"_135":137},"industries",[132],"image_media",{"_13":113,"_95":131,"_96":118,"_97":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_99":-5,"_100":-5,"_86":-5,"_101":-5},{"_13":114,"_95":130,"_96":119,"_97":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_99":-5,"_100":-5,"_86":-5,"_101":-5},"zeEeEhCpSyjYiuAQI44LWlWkLTS6HdSkVOZCmhag.jpg","XX7LQ1p5QRuT0lhMr1vwsyddh4EyU2BX80g91bLD.jpg",{"_13":122,"_133":134,"_135":136},"name","Retail and E-commerce","pivot",{"_35":36,"_121":122},{"_35":36,"_121":122},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_146":147,"_148":149,"_150":151,"_152":153,"_154":155},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]