[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_138":-5,"_139":-5,"_140":141,"_142":143,"_144":145},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3109/your-drive-is-a-differentiator","id",3109,"title","Your drive is a differentiator","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.600\nthe most important thing in a leader is drive. You know, everybody's smart. By\n\n2\n00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:08.000\nthe time you get\n\n3\n00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:12.630\nto about age 33 or 35 or something, I think IQ is really a distribution curve\n\n4\n00:00:12.630 --> 00:00:13.680\nreally gets tight.\n\n5\n00:00:13.680 --> 00:00:20.640\nSo everybody's smart and you can develop the social skills you need every time.\n\n6\n00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:20.880\nBut there's\n\n7\n00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:25.100\nsomething inside some people who have a lot of drive and really want to make a\n\n8\n00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:25.440\ndifference\n\n9\n00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.840\nand want to have a big impact. So that's one. I love people who are extremely\n\n10\n00:00:29.840 --> 00:00:30.560\ndriven\n\n11\n00:00:30.560 --> 00:00:34.780\nand I just want to have a big impact and a positive impact on people and on the\n\n12\n00:00:34.780 --> 00:00:35.360\nbusiness.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",2175720,"end_time",2211100,"keywords","Development, drive, hiring, IQ, impact","slug","your-drive-is-a-differentiator","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","SpMuwmAjqWFVPGNPWE8Z7auK1017OLQnxUWdjATsDgqo","mux_asset_id","AUAJppzKL79hksXwy4vGgCzxK5B3ned02dxpT6cfQJsU","leader_id",252,"episode_id",404,"updated_at","2025-11-06T20:43:01.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3109/your-drive-is-a-differentiator","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_102":103,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_25":108,"_109":110,"_61":111,"_58":111,"_112":113,"_68":114,"_39":115,"_116":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_117":118,"_90":119,"_44":120,"_121":122,"_123":124,"_46":-5,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_94":129,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":89,"_90":-5,"_46":-5,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_94":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Good design can make anything better","good-design-can-make-anything-better","Listen to this leadership podcast with Bracken Darrell, CEO of VF Corporation, and discover how to bring the power of design to every facet of your business.","summary","

Bracken Darrell led remarkable turnarounds at both Old Spice and Logitech. Now he’s the CEO of VF Corporation, where he’s working to revitalize iconic brands like The North Face, Timberland, Vans, and more.

Hit play on this episode and take a look at his playbook. It’s all about constantly growing and designing things to be better – whether it’s a product, a team, or his own understanding of quantum mechanics (no, really).

You’ll also learn:

The weird way he keeps a fresh outlook on his job
The power of design, even outside of product development
Why you’re an artist whether you realize it or not (and why that matters)
One thing every great brand has in common

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.800\nMy ideal scenario is that how you interact with our company, whether you buy\n\n2\n00:00:03.800 --> 00:00:04.240\nour products,\n\n3\n00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:08.040\nor you sell to us, or you just walk into lobby one time and you never come back\n\n4\n00:00:08.040 --> 00:00:09.040\n. Somehow, we make\n\n5\n00:00:09.040 --> 00:00:10.000\nyour life a little better.\n\n6\n00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:20.040\nMy hometown is Louisville, Kentucky, as you know, and I know you lived in\n\n7\n00:00:20.040 --> 00:00:21.040\nLouisville, Kentucky,\n\n8\n00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:26.880\nand I understand you grew up in Owensboro, Kentucky. I got to ask you, are you\n\n9\n00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:28.160\na Kentucky Wildcat fan?\n\n10\n00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:33.130\nI'm going to get a lot of shade from this, but no, I'm not a Kentucky Wildcat\n\n11\n00:00:33.130 --> 00:00:33.680\nfan.\n\n12\n00:00:33.680 --> 00:00:36.630\nI grew up in Indiana, who's your fan, believe it or not, and a Louisville\n\n13\n00:00:36.630 --> 00:00:37.440\nCardinal fan.\n\n14\n00:00:37.440 --> 00:00:42.440\nThat's funny, because when I moved at Louisville, I was an Indiana fan, a\n\n15\n00:00:42.440 --> 00:00:44.640\nLouisville fan,\n\n16\n00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:51.200\nand a Kentucky fan, and a Kansas fan. Now, nobody, I guarantee you, nobody in\n\n17\n00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:52.400\nthis part of the world\n\n18\n00:00:52.400 --> 00:00:57.010\nhas those four teams, but when you grow up here, you really throw the mantle\n\n19\n00:00:57.010 --> 00:00:58.640\ndown behind Indiana,\n\n20\n00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.640\nKentucky, and Louisville. No question about it.\n\n21\n00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:06.040\nI still play a lot of basketball today. I'm a basketball fanatic. I admire a\n\n22\n00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:06.720\ngreat basketball,\n\n23\n00:01:06.720 --> 00:01:10.520\nso I've always admired Kentucky, but if you asked me if I was a fan, I was a\n\n24\n00:01:10.520 --> 00:01:11.600\nfan back in Bobby Knight,\n\n25\n00:01:11.600 --> 00:01:17.460\nwas a Hoosier's coach, and he was crazy at times, so I lost a lot of love for\n\n26\n00:01:17.460 --> 00:01:17.520\nthat,\n\n27\n00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:20.720\nbut I did love the fundamentals, and that's what Indiana always stood for.\n\n28\n00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:25.760\nSo you had to have a hoop in your driveway like everybody else in Kentucky?\n\n29\n00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:31.040\nI had a hoop in my backyard that my dad's laid with some other guys he worked\n\n30\n00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:31.360\nwith,\n\n31\n00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:36.540\nand they made the mistake at the end of getting a broom and brushing it over\n\n32\n00:01:36.540 --> 00:01:37.040\nthe top,\n\n33\n00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:42.930\nand it made it the roughest court you've ever seen, and I still have scars on\n\n34\n00:01:42.930 --> 00:01:43.360\nboth these and\n\n35\n00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:46.960\nboth elbows from that. You look at great shapes, so it's obvious you're out\n\n36\n00:01:46.960 --> 00:01:47.440\nthere in that\n\n37\n00:01:47.440 --> 00:01:52.240\nbasketball court. That's pretty hard. When I got to be about 40, 40, I'd go one\n\n38\n00:01:52.240 --> 00:01:52.560\nway,\n\n39\n00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:59.760\nbut my body wouldn't go with me, so I gave it up. I ignore that. I ignore that\n\n40\n00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:00.320\nmyself,\n\n41\n00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:03.760\nand luckily the people I play was seen to. I know I love it. I still play three\n\n42\n00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:04.000\nor four\n\n43\n00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:08.480\ntimes a week. I'm a fanatic. Well, Bracken, you didn't make the NBA, but you're\n\n44\n00:02:08.480 --> 00:02:09.520\nknown for making\n\n45\n00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:14.970\ndesign a competitive advantage wherever you go. What's the most fun thing that\n\n46\n00:02:14.970 --> 00:02:16.080\nyou've ever helped\n\n47\n00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.930\ndesign? Boy, that's tough. You know, my definition of design is probably much\n\n48\n00:02:20.930 --> 00:02:22.080\nbroader. On a product\n\n49\n00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:28.160\nlevel, I helped my head of design and design an iPad keyboard cover that had a\n\n50\n00:02:28.160 --> 00:02:29.120\nlittle loop in it\n\n51\n00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:37.280\nfor a pencil, for the Apple Pencil. That was probably the product that I loved\n\n52\n00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:37.520\nthe most,\n\n53\n00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:41.080\nbecause we did it so fast, and it was based on real consumer insight. From a\n\n54\n00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:41.840\nreal design\n\n55\n00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:47.730\nstandpoint, though, I'd say redesigning Logitech to become what it was was\n\n56\n00:02:47.730 --> 00:02:48.080\nprobably the most\n\n57\n00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:51.680\nfun thing I've ever done. Although this one that I'm working on now is going to\n\n58\n00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:52.320\nbe the most fun\n\n59\n00:02:52.320 --> 00:02:56.990\nwe've ever done. You're off the darn good start, and you're making great\n\n60\n00:02:56.990 --> 00:02:58.880\nprogress, and you've\n\n61\n00:02:58.880 --> 00:03:03.430\nled some great brands from Old Spice to Logitech, and now North Face, and all\n\n62\n00:03:03.430 --> 00:03:04.480\nthe brands that you\n\n63\n00:03:04.480 --> 00:03:11.680\nhave there. I'm really curious, when you look outside, what brands do you\n\n64\n00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:12.560\nadmire for their\n\n65\n00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:18.720\ndesign and creativity and overall positioning? You know, I look across a lot of\n\n66\n00:03:18.720 --> 00:03:19.200\nthings. I think\n\n67\n00:03:19.200 --> 00:03:25.090\nthere are so many great brands and great designers out there, and some of the\n\n68\n00:03:25.090 --> 00:03:26.000\npeople probably wouldn't\n\n69\n00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.560\nthink of as designers, but I'd say everybody looks at Apple. It's hard not to.\n\n70\n00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:31.120\nApple's just\n\n71\n00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:37.010\ngot such an incredible story, and Johnny Ive had such a monstrous impact on all\n\n72\n00:03:37.010 --> 00:03:37.600\nof us.\n\n73\n00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:41.740\nJohnny Ive Steve Jobs, there's a whole crew over there that did that. All those\n\n74\n00:03:41.740 --> 00:03:42.240\namazing\n\n75\n00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:46.640\nproducts and still are. I think Apple's, it's hard not to look at them, but\n\n76\n00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:47.360\nthere are so many\n\n77\n00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:53.360\ngreat companies. When I look at people like Hermes or Louis Vuitton or Sephora,\n\n78\n00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:53.920\nI think it\n\n79\n00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:56.320\ndepends on what kind of design you're talking about, whether it's store design\n\n80\n00:03:56.320 --> 00:03:57.040\nor product design\n\n81\n00:03:57.040 --> 00:04:01.280\nor website design. There's just a lot of amazing things happening out there,\n\n82\n00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:01.920\nand it's a great\n\n83\n00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:05.760\ntime to be in design. You have more and more tools that you can basically have\n\n84\n00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:06.640\na team of designers\n\n85\n00:04:06.640 --> 00:04:12.840\nworking for you now that AI can enable. So, it's an exciting time to believe in\n\n86\n00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:13.440\ndesign.\n\n87\n00:04:13.440 --> 00:04:21.290\nYou know, what was going on in your life, Bracken, when VF came calling? And\n\n88\n00:04:21.290 --> 00:04:22.640\nwhat made you say yes?\n\n89\n00:04:22.640 --> 00:04:28.160\nWell, I'd been doing this job for about 11 years. Actually, you know what, I'll\n\n90\n00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:28.720\ngo back,\n\n91\n00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.870\nI'll go back to heaven. I'll tell you a story before that. After my first five\n\n92\n00:04:32.870 --> 00:04:34.240\nyears at Logitech,\n\n93\n00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:37.840\nI was with the company completely transformed. You know, it was a very\n\n94\n00:04:37.840 --> 00:04:38.480\ndifferent company than\n\n95\n00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.880\nwhy I joined in so many ways. And so, I really wondered if I was the right guy\n\n96\n00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:43.520\nfor the job for\n\n97\n00:04:43.520 --> 00:04:47.040\nthe next five years. I was doing my annual kind of assessment of myself. And I\n\n98\n00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:47.920\nthought, you know,\n\n99\n00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:51.080\nI wonder if I really am the right person. So, I decided to write up what the\n\n100\n00:04:51.080 --> 00:04:51.840\nnext CEO should\n\n101\n00:04:51.840 --> 00:04:57.040\nbe like, if it weren't, whether it was me or not. And then I did that. And then\n\n102\n00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:57.920\nI wrote down\n\n103\n00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.870\nmy credentials on the other side of the page. And I thought, you know, I'd be\n\n104\n00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:01.600\nin the running,\n\n105\n00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.090\nbut I just read Thinking Fast and Slow, which you probably read. And I was\n\n106\n00:05:05.090 --> 00:05:05.760\nthinking, you know,\n\n107\n00:05:05.760 --> 00:05:08.620\ncan I really be objective though? Because I've touched every product, every\n\n108\n00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:09.040\nleader,\n\n109\n00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.440\nevery strategy, you know, I feel ownership for all of them. Can I really take\n\n110\n00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:14.160\nthose apart when\n\n111\n00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.560\nit's when I need to? And so, I thought, nah, there's no way. So, I decided I'm\n\n112\n00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:20.160\ngoing to quit.\n\n113\n00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:23.770\nI'm going to, I'll tell my chair tomorrow, and then I'm going to go do\n\n114\n00:05:23.770 --> 00:05:24.560\nsomething different.\n\n115\n00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:27.920\nBecause I can do something different. We'll find somebody who's a better fit.\n\n116\n00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:31.320\nWho's got more objectivity? So, I went to bed that night and I slept on it like\n\n117\n00:05:31.320 --> 00:05:31.840\nI started\n\n118\n00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:35.840\nto do decisions about then. I woke up next morning like I often would and said,\n\n119\n00:05:35.840 --> 00:05:36.400\nyou know what, I was\n\n120\n00:05:36.400 --> 00:05:41.150\nwrong. I just need to be completely objective and park everything I ever did\n\n121\n00:05:41.150 --> 00:05:42.560\nand not be afraid to\n\n122\n00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:47.360\nundo anything I touched. And so, I really signed a new contract for myself,\n\n123\n00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:48.640\ndidn't tell anybody,\n\n124\n00:05:48.640 --> 00:05:52.560\nand I started over again. And I went to the job feeling like a newcomer. I tell\n\n125\n00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:53.200\nyou that story\n\n126\n00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:57.150\nbecause I did that serially then for the next, you know, every year or two, I\n\n127\n00:05:57.150 --> 00:05:57.840\nwould do the same\n\n128\n00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:03.290\nthing. And it helped me stay fresh and objective in my job. But then after 11\n\n129\n00:06:03.290 --> 00:06:04.160\nyears, I thought,\n\n130\n00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:07.280\nyou know, I'm running a public company. I just turned 60. I thought, you know,\n\n131\n00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:08.080\nthey might not let\n\n132\n00:06:08.080 --> 00:06:12.080\nme know. Maybe nobody will want me to run another public company at some point.\n\n133\n00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:13.200\nAnd at some point,\n\n134\n00:06:13.200 --> 00:06:17.600\nI will leave Logitech and it's inevitable. So, maybe I should start listening.\n\n135\n00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:18.480\nSo, I started listening\n\n136\n00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:23.470\nto recruiter calls and NVF called and it sounded super exciting. Yeah, that's\n\n137\n00:06:23.470 --> 00:06:24.320\nfantastic. I love\n\n138\n00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:28.720\nthis notion of how you reinvented yourself every year, basically almost like\n\n139\n00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:29.840\nfiring yourself.\n\n140\n00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:33.240\nYeah, I, I, that's what I, that's not what I describe it normally. I did fire\n\n141\n00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:34.240\nmyself and then\n\n142\n00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:40.560\nI rehired a new me under a new contract with, there were nothing was sacred.\n\n143\n00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.000\nAnd I never regret\n\n144\n00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.800\nthat. And it's consistent with something I really believe in David. I wonder\n\n145\n00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:46.880\nwhat you think it was.\n\n146\n00:06:46.880 --> 00:06:49.560\nI listened to Steve Jobs, that commencement address when he said, you know, if\n\n147\n00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:50.400\nyou look in the mirror\n\n148\n00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:52.990\nin too many days in a row and you don't like what you see, because you don't\n\n149\n00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:53.360\nlike that,\n\n150\n00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:57.750\nI'm paraphrasing, but you don't like what you're doing, then you should change\n\n151\n00:06:57.750 --> 00:06:59.120\nit. You know, and I,\n\n152\n00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:02.920\nand so I was thinking, I kind of think, you know, if you get up, if you get up\n\n153\n00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:04.880\nevery day and you think,\n\n154\n00:07:04.880 --> 00:07:09.120\nwow, actually, I flipped that around a little bit, there's nothing that I have\n\n155\n00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:10.160\nto be today that I\n\n156\n00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:14.620\nwas yesterday. I can completely transform myself today. I can decide. I can\n\n157\n00:07:14.620 --> 00:07:15.920\ntake completely different\n\n158\n00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.760\ndecided decisions. I can do a different job. I can do have different passions.\n\n159\n00:07:19.760 --> 00:07:20.640\nI can make different\n\n160\n00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:24.830\ndecisions. And I think that's at the heart of what I really believe in is that\n\n161\n00:07:24.830 --> 00:07:25.920\nstarting every day\n\n162\n00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.790\nfresh or at least every year fresh and saying, okay, I really am going to\n\n163\n00:07:29.790 --> 00:07:31.120\nstrategically live my\n\n164\n00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:37.040\nlife rather than just go through in on autopilot, which we all do all too much.\n\n165\n00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:38.720\nSo I really believe\n\n166\n00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.870\nin that. You know, Brack, and you know, since you asked me about my process for\n\n167\n00:07:42.870 --> 00:07:44.320\ndoing that, I do\n\n168\n00:07:44.320 --> 00:07:48.300\nwhat I call my three by five exercise every year where I put down, what am I\n\n169\n00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:49.600\ntoday and how can I be\n\n170\n00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:52.600\neven more effective tomorrow? And then the same thing with the business, you\n\n171\n00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:54.160\nknow, but it's a basic,\n\n172\n00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:58.560\nyou know, it's basic. You have to have high self awareness of yourself and and\n\n173\n00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:59.280\nyour business. You\n\n174\n00:07:59.280 --> 00:08:03.210\nknow, for example, right now, what would you be working on to make yourself\n\n175\n00:08:03.210 --> 00:08:04.240\nbetter as a leader?\n\n176\n00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:08.040\nYou know, I'm trying to be better at giving feedback to my team. You know, I\n\n177\n00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:09.120\nthink I'm a very\n\n178\n00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.120\nintuitive person. So I, you know, like, like, unfortunately, I think by the\n\n179\n00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:14.960\ntime you get to the age of 60,\n\n180\n00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:19.480\nyou become very intuitive because you've got your pattern recognition is so you\n\n181\n00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:20.720\n've practiced\n\n182\n00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.520\nand practiced it so many times. But I think it's the downside of that is you\n\n183\n00:08:24.520 --> 00:08:25.360\ncan sometimes\n\n184\n00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:28.670\nnot do a good enough job expressing how you're thinking and what you're\n\n185\n00:08:28.670 --> 00:08:29.680\nthinking and why you're\n\n186\n00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:34.400\nthinking it to your team. And I often, I catch myself not doing that enough.\n\n187\n00:08:34.400 --> 00:08:35.120\nAnd I'm trying to do a\n\n188\n00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:38.200\nbetter job with that. So that's one thing I'm really working on. The other one\n\n189\n00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:38.720\nis, you know,\n\n190\n00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:43.360\nI'll give you a board example. I think with my, I was lucky in my Logitech\n\n191\n00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:44.080\nboard experiences,\n\n192\n00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:48.960\nbecause I had a fantastic partner in crime. My first few years who had been the\n\n193\n00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:49.520\nCEO and he\n\n194\n00:08:49.520 --> 00:08:53.160\nwas the chair and he led a lot of the interference for me with the board. But I\n\n195\n00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:54.960\nlearned through\n\n196\n00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.560\nalong the years, man, I'm not very good at managing this board. I mean, I like\n\n197\n00:08:58.560 --> 00:09:00.240\nthem. They like me.\n\n198\n00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.440\nBut in terms of really working with them to make sure that I'm getting the most\n\n199\n00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:04.080\nout of them that\n\n200\n00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:07.880\nthey're feeling they feel ownership for what we're doing and the decisions, I\n\n201\n00:09:07.880 --> 00:09:08.720\nwasn't very good at\n\n202\n00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:12.780\nit. So I really worked on that here to do better. And I've got a fantastic\n\n203\n00:09:12.780 --> 00:09:14.080\nboard. I had a fantastic\n\n204\n00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:17.480\nboard of Logitech too. I've got a fantastic board. So I'm really working at\n\n205\n00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:18.560\ntrying to make sure that\n\n206\n00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:21.350\nI'm really getting the most out of them. I spend more time with my board here\n\n207\n00:09:21.350 --> 00:09:22.080\nthan I did before,\n\n208\n00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.700\nnot too much, but enough. And I think it's one of the exciting things that I'm\n\n209\n00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:28.160\nmaking progress on.\n\n210\n00:09:28.160 --> 00:09:31.700\nAnd is the key to that just getting more involvement from them and asking them\n\n211\n00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:32.880\nwhat they think or,\n\n212\n00:09:32.880 --> 00:09:36.280\nyou know, what's your secret in that area? It really is because I think, you\n\n213\n00:09:36.280 --> 00:09:36.400\nknow,\n\n214\n00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:42.290\nboards can be just something you go to once a quarter and you get the document,\n\n215\n00:09:42.290 --> 00:09:42.560\nthe stuff\n\n216\n00:09:42.560 --> 00:09:46.960\nsent out ahead of time. You read it, you go, and then you react. Or they can be\n\n217\n00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:47.600\nsomething where you\n\n218\n00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:52.360\nreally feel ownership for the company, not as a manager because you're not\n\n219\n00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:53.360\nrunning the company,\n\n220\n00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:57.200\nbut really where you feel like, wow, I really understand more what's going on\n\n221\n00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:58.400\nin a deep way.\n\n222\n00:09:58.400 --> 00:10:02.960\nAnd I think one of the best ways to achieve that is to go one on one with board\n\n223\n00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:03.600\nmembers\n\n224\n00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:06.640\nand talk through the issues you're facing and just make sure that they feel\n\n225\n00:10:06.640 --> 00:10:08.480\naware and they\n\n226\n00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:11.490\nare aware of what's happening. And they're not surprised during the meetings\n\n227\n00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:12.320\nwith the latest\n\n228\n00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.860\nset of information they get. And so that's really what I've tried to do. That's\n\n229\n00:10:15.860 --> 00:10:16.720\nprobably like,\n\n230\n00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:22.150\nyou know, obvious to a lot of CEOs out there. It was probably not obvious to me\n\n231\n00:10:22.150 --> 00:10:22.160\n.\n\n232\n00:10:22.160 --> 00:10:27.040\nAnd I'm getting better and better at it. And I love my board and I love what I\n\n233\n00:10:27.040 --> 00:10:27.600\n'm getting out of\n\n234\n00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:34.480\nthem. So you left Logitech and you went to VF. What was it that really got you\n\n235\n00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:35.120\nexcited about\n\n236\n00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:38.780\nthis opportunity? You know, I think I loved, as you said in the beginning of\n\n237\n00:10:38.780 --> 00:10:39.600\nthis podcast,\n\n238\n00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:46.560\nI love design and I love products. And I love marketing too. Where could you\n\n239\n00:10:46.560 --> 00:10:48.320\npossibly go to work\n\n240\n00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:53.590\non products, have as many products to do? Think about how many products we must\n\n241\n00:10:53.590 --> 00:10:54.320\ndo every year.\n\n242\n00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:57.280\nYou don't have to know anything about our business to know. We must be putting\n\n243\n00:10:57.280 --> 00:10:57.840\nout\n\n244\n00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:02.400\nthousands of new products every year. And we are. And then secondly, think of\n\n245\n00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:03.840\nthe brands we have.\n\n246\n00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:09.130\nI mean, we all grew up touching in some cases, inhaling and exhaling these\n\n247\n00:11:09.130 --> 00:11:10.320\nbrands like Timberland\n\n248\n00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:16.210\nand the North Face. And it's such an incredibly exciting thing to be able to\n\n249\n00:11:16.210 --> 00:11:16.800\nfigure out what are\n\n250\n00:11:16.800 --> 00:11:19.660\nthe next products we're going to have for them? How do we engage with consumers\n\n251\n00:11:19.660 --> 00:11:20.880\neven better in this\n\n252\n00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:25.280\ntime when engagement's everything? So it's a super, super exciting business to\n\n253\n00:11:25.280 --> 00:11:25.680\nwork in.\n\n254\n00:11:25.680 --> 00:11:30.880\nHey friends, I hope you're loving this conversation with David and Bracken. And\n\n255\n00:11:30.880 --> 00:11:32.080\nif you are loving it,\n\n256\n00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:35.550\nwhich I'm sure you are, I want you to stay tuned to the very end of the\n\n257\n00:11:35.550 --> 00:11:36.800\nconversation where David\n\n258\n00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:40.800\nand I debrief this interview. We're going to give you some really practical\n\n259\n00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:41.440\ntakeaways\n\n260\n00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:45.330\nfrom this conversation that you can apply to your leadership, to your life, and\n\n261\n00:11:45.330 --> 00:11:45.920\nto your work.\n\n262\n00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:50.060\nAnd honestly, it's just a lot of fun to talk about all the iconic brands that\n\n263\n00:11:50.060 --> 00:11:50.720\nBracken has\n\n264\n00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:55.120\nthe privilege of being able to lead with this company at VF. So I hope you stay\n\n265\n00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:55.680\ntuned to the\n\n266\n00:11:55.680 --> 00:12:00.080\nvery end of the episode and enjoy the rest of this conversation with David and\n\n267\n00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:00.720\nBracken.\n\n268\n00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:05.280\nAnd, you know, I want to dig more into VF in a minute, but first, I'd like to\n\n269\n00:12:05.280 --> 00:12:06.720\ntake you back and\n\n270\n00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.520\ntell us a story from your childhood that one that really shaped the kind of\n\n271\n00:12:10.520 --> 00:12:12.000\nleader you are today.\n\n272\n00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.640\nYou know, there's so many things that shape you when you're a child. I guess\n\n273\n00:12:15.280 --> 00:12:19.680\nmaybe the one, maybe what I would say is, I was about this height. You can't\n\n274\n00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:20.560\ntell. I look,\n\n275\n00:12:20.560 --> 00:12:24.480\nI look pretty tall, actually. I'm looking at myself here. I'm about 5'11\". Now,\n\n276\n00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:24.960\nI was about\n\n277\n00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:30.850\n5'11\" when I was 11 and 12 and 13 and so on. So I've been 5'11\" for a long time\n\n278\n00:12:30.850 --> 00:12:31.200\n. Now,\n\n279\n00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:38.000\n5'11\" when you're 12 or 11 is a lot different from 5'11\" when you're 21 or 62.\n\n280\n00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:39.840\nYou were Will Chamberlain for a while there.\n\n281\n00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:45.270\nAbsolutely. And I was, you know, I had two rough and tumble older brothers and\n\n282\n00:12:45.270 --> 00:12:45.840\na great younger\n\n283\n00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:49.820\nsister. And so I was a pretty good athlete. You know, I was big. I was fast. I\n\n284\n00:12:49.820 --> 00:12:50.800\nwas strong.\n\n285\n00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.480\nI was bigger than almost everybody else. I think everybody else. And so I was a\n\n286\n00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:55.360\nnatural leader.\n\n287\n00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.960\nI mean, everybody looked up to me physically and looked up to me because I was\n\n288\n00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:00.160\njust big and I was\n\n289\n00:13:00.160 --> 00:13:03.030\nsuccessful in sports and stuff. And then I had a mom who was a first grade\n\n290\n00:13:03.030 --> 00:13:04.400\nteacher. So I learned\n\n291\n00:13:04.400 --> 00:13:08.320\nto read really early and I was good in school. So I had these advantages that\n\n292\n00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:09.120\nhad nothing to do\n\n293\n00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.680\nreally with me except that they were in the DNA advantage, temporary advantage\n\n294\n00:13:13.680 --> 00:13:14.480\nof getting things\n\n295\n00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:18.880\nearly. So I was the team captain. I was this and that. By the time I got to the\n\n296\n00:13:18.880 --> 00:13:19.680\neighth grade,\n\n297\n00:13:19.680 --> 00:13:23.080\npeople were starting to catch up, I went from being the center to the forward.\n\n298\n00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:23.360\nBut then in the\n\n299\n00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.910\nninth grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, I went from the big forward to the small\n\n300\n00:13:27.910 --> 00:13:28.960\nforward to the\n\n301\n00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.120\ntwo guard to the point guard who couldn't handle the ball well enough. And\n\n302\n00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.160\nalong the way, I realized,\n\n303\n00:13:36.160 --> 00:13:38.570\nyou know, I'm probably not going to get into the NBA as you said in the\n\n304\n00:13:38.570 --> 00:13:39.840\nbeginning of this podcast.\n\n305\n00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:46.000\nSo my best shot is really to plan for something else. And what I figured out\n\n306\n00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.640\nthat I really loved\n\n307\n00:13:46.640 --> 00:13:51.460\nwas leadership. Once I realized that, I realized I didn't have what it takes. I\n\n308\n00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:52.400\nwas very shy.\n\n309\n00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:58.300\nI was terrified speaking public. Even though I was very, you know, in quotation\n\n310\n00:13:58.300 --> 00:13:59.280\nmarks popular,\n\n311\n00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:01.840\nI wasn't popular because I was out there getting in front of everybody. I was\n\n312\n00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:02.400\npopular because I\n\n313\n00:14:02.400 --> 00:14:07.400\nwas big and I was an athlete and I was pretty good in school. So I had to work\n\n314\n00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:08.640\nat being friendly\n\n315\n00:14:08.640 --> 00:14:12.530\nand warm and showing that I cared about people because I always did. So I\n\n316\n00:14:12.530 --> 00:14:13.920\nstarted in about the\n\n317\n00:14:13.920 --> 00:14:18.580\nninth grade or 10th grade, I started being, I just wheeled myself to be\n\n318\n00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:19.680\nfriendly and to be\n\n319\n00:14:19.680 --> 00:14:22.330\nextroverted. You know, I talked about introverts and extrovert. Well, I decided\n\n320\n00:14:22.330 --> 00:14:22.960\nI was going to be an\n\n321\n00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.450\nextrovert. And I would just smile at everybody and be as warm as I could with\n\n322\n00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:28.800\neverybody and talk to\n\n323\n00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:32.940\neverybody. And it was the best thing I ever did in my life because I realized\n\n324\n00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.400\nhow much you can\n\n325\n00:14:34.400 --> 00:14:39.920\nimprove your life and the people's lives around you if you actually do care\n\n326\n00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:40.400\nenough\n\n327\n00:14:40.400 --> 00:14:44.860\nto talk to people. And so that was probably the biggest change in my entire\n\n328\n00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:45.760\nlife. And it all\n\n329\n00:14:45.760 --> 00:14:51.680\nhappened between about the age of, you know, 14, 15, 16. Yeah, so it's so\n\n330\n00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:52.800\ninteresting to listen to\n\n331\n00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:56.600\nyou because when I was a kid, I moved around. My dad was a government surveyor\n\n332\n00:14:56.600 --> 00:14:57.680\nwith all these small\n\n333\n00:14:57.680 --> 00:15:02.560\ntowns. And I was always the best athlete. And then I moved to the big city,\n\n334\n00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:03.360\nKansas City, and I\n\n335\n00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.640\nquickly learned that I was not. So I went through the exact same processes and\n\n336\n00:15:08.640 --> 00:15:09.840\nrealized I had to\n\n337\n00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.890\nsurvive in some other manner than being the major league baseball player, I\n\n338\n00:15:13.890 --> 00:15:15.520\nthought I could become.\n\n339\n00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:20.320\nYou know, so you go, you're good at school, you go to Harvard, fantastic\n\n340\n00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.240\neducation, you join Proctor\n\n341\n00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.720\nand Gamble, which is a company known for shaping great leaders. Was there\n\n342\n00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.720\nanybody at P&G who showed\n\n343\n00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:34.660\nyou what great leadership was was all about? And what did that person do that\n\n344\n00:15:34.660 --> 00:15:35.760\nstuck to you if\n\n345\n00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:39.160\nyou had that kind of person? Yeah, by the way, I went to Hendricks College too,\n\n346\n00:15:39.160 --> 00:15:39.760\na small college in\n\n347\n00:15:39.760 --> 00:15:46.740\nArkansas that I loved. Yeah, a lot of people made me better at P&G, but I'll\n\n348\n00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:48.400\npoint out one who I\n\n349\n00:15:48.400 --> 00:15:54.400\nstill feel very close to today is Susan Arnold. Susan became vice chair of P&G\n\n350\n00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:55.120\nand then\n\n351\n00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:58.920\nbecame the chair of Disney and she just had a phenomenal career. She's retired\n\n352\n00:15:58.920 --> 00:15:59.920\nnow, but she's\n\n353\n00:15:59.920 --> 00:16:04.410\nshe's a wonderful human being. She believed in me, you know, when when I'm not\n\n354\n00:16:04.410 --> 00:16:05.280\neven sure I believed\n\n355\n00:16:05.280 --> 00:16:10.330\nin me as much as she did. And she came into the I was I had been running old\n\n356\n00:16:10.330 --> 00:16:11.920\nSpice deodorant as an\n\n357\n00:16:11.920 --> 00:16:14.560\nassistant brand manager, which for those of you don't know what that is, it's\n\n358\n00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:15.360\nlike what's exactly\n\n359\n00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:18.050\nwhat it sounds like. You're the assistant to somebody. But I didn't have a\n\n360\n00:16:18.050 --> 00:16:19.040\nbrand manager because my\n\n361\n00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:22.340\nbrand manager moved out. I felt responsible for figuring out how to turn this\n\n362\n00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:23.120\nthing around that\n\n363\n00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.990\nhad been in a steep decline, you know, for years and years. And the company was\n\n364\n00:16:26.990 --> 00:16:28.000\nabout to give up on\n\n365\n00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:33.350\nit. And and so I had this plan and and I shared it with Mike Wege who also had\n\n366\n00:16:33.350 --> 00:16:34.320\na big impact on me\n\n367\n00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:39.010\nand Susan Arnold. And you know, Susan just really believed in me and said, you\n\n368\n00:16:39.010 --> 00:16:39.520\nknow, look, if you\n\n369\n00:16:39.520 --> 00:16:42.310\nreally believe this is the right thing to do, it sounds makes sense to me. We\n\n370\n00:16:42.310 --> 00:16:43.200\n're going to have to\n\n371\n00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:47.880\nsell it to the the mythical 11th floor at PNG, which was this place where all\n\n372\n00:16:47.880 --> 00:16:49.280\nthe top executives live,\n\n373\n00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:53.420\nyou know, and it's got art on the walls and all the stuff is very quiet up\n\n374\n00:16:53.420 --> 00:16:54.880\nthere. And so we made\n\n375\n00:16:54.880 --> 00:16:58.080\nI don't know how many trips up there. I went with Susan and then later with\n\n376\n00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:59.200\nMike and Susan after he\n\n377\n00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:04.480\narrived and we sold piece by piece this multi step change that I had planned.\n\n378\n00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.840\nAnd I saw from her\n\n379\n00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:11.760\nsuch common sense, such candor, she had fun at work, she walked around barefoot\n\n380\n00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:12.640\nat all the time,\n\n381\n00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.880\nlaughed like crazy. She was also very serious. She was a super hard worker,\n\n382\n00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:18.000\nvery smart, didn't hold\n\n383\n00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.140\nback. She could be really tough. I just learned so much from her. And and I\n\n384\n00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.360\nstill admire her today.\n\n385\n00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:26.610\nI sent her a note not too long ago. I just said, you know, I just want to thank\n\n386\n00:17:26.610 --> 00:17:27.280\nyou because she had\n\n387\n00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:31.680\nsuch a big impact on my career. I'm sure she loved that recognition. How much\n\n388\n00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:32.480\nis recognition\n\n389\n00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:36.280\na part of what you do on a everyday basis with your own people? You know, I no\n\n390\n00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:37.040\nmatter how much you\n\n391\n00:17:37.040 --> 00:17:42.190\nrecognize other people, you never do it enough. So I hope I'm doing it. I hope\n\n392\n00:17:42.190 --> 00:17:43.360\nI'm doing it 50\n\n393\n00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:48.780\npercent enough. I I try to recognize people. I always think, you know, there's\n\n394\n00:17:48.780 --> 00:17:49.680\njust when things\n\n395\n00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.230\nare going right, man, there's just no limit to how many people are involved and\n\n396\n00:17:53.230 --> 00:17:54.560\nshould get recognized.\n\n397\n00:17:54.560 --> 00:17:58.160\nAnd so I try to do that. And I try to make them feel good about what the\n\n398\n00:17:58.160 --> 00:17:59.360\ncontribution they made.\n\n399\n00:17:59.360 --> 00:18:05.040\nWhen things go wrong, you know, I really I really believe, you know, especially\n\n400\n00:18:05.040 --> 00:18:05.360\nwhen you're in the\n\n401\n00:18:05.360 --> 00:18:09.160\nsea, really, it really is all about you. It's something you could have changed\n\n402\n00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:10.640\nalmost always.\n\n403\n00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:16.530\nSo I try to pass along the good good vibes and and suck out the bad ones. And\n\n404\n00:18:16.530 --> 00:18:17.040\nthen and they do\n\n405\n00:18:17.040 --> 00:18:19.730\nwhat season do with me and make sure that I'm being candid with people and\n\n406\n00:18:19.730 --> 00:18:20.560\ngiving them coaching\n\n407\n00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:24.520\nwhere I can. As I said, early in the podcast, I'm really working on that to do\n\n408\n00:18:24.520 --> 00:18:25.200\nit better.\n\n409\n00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:31.540\nNow old Spice was like a pretty old stodgy brand. And you turned it into more\n\n410\n00:18:31.540 --> 00:18:32.080\nyouthful\n\n411\n00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:38.770\nimage, certainly gave it a much cooler feel. You know, what what what did you\n\n412\n00:18:38.770 --> 00:18:39.280\nsee and what was your\n\n413\n00:18:39.280 --> 00:18:43.840\nprocess that you you went through to really say, Hey, this is this is how we\n\n414\n00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:44.720\ncould turn the corner\n\n415\n00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:49.120\non this brand. Look, first of all, I didn't I was not the one who who defined\n\n416\n00:18:49.120 --> 00:18:50.080\nthe campaign as\n\n417\n00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:54.940\nthe ad campaign of the the guy on the horseback, which was brilliant. What I\n\n418\n00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:55.120\ndid.\n\n419\n00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:58.240\nOne of the best ever. Yeah. One of the best ever what I did do with the guy\n\n420\n00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.360\nnamed Larry Ploskey is we\n\n421\n00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:05.360\nwrote a of the Larry drafted and he and I worked together on kind of the\n\n422\n00:19:05.360 --> 00:19:06.560\nseminal document that set\n\n423\n00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:09.350\nthe tone for that. They really said, here's what we're going to take it. What I\n\n424\n00:19:09.350 --> 00:19:11.360\ndid do was the the\n\n425\n00:19:11.360 --> 00:19:15.420\ndeep turnaround that went on for a couple of years. And what I learned in that\n\n426\n00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:16.240\nwas before I'd\n\n427\n00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:20.080\ngotten there, they had changed every piece of the marketing, but not in syn\n\n428\n00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:21.600\nchron, not in a synchronized\n\n429\n00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:25.650\nway. So I changed the pricing, I actually lowered prices, which doesn't happen\n\n430\n00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:26.800\nat P&G very often.\n\n431\n00:19:26.800 --> 00:19:31.830\nI lowered prices. I changed the name of the product. I made some really tough\n\n432\n00:19:31.830 --> 00:19:32.560\ncost decisions.\n\n433\n00:19:32.560 --> 00:19:37.400\nWe upgraded a product and we changed the advertising, which was probably the\n\n434\n00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:38.160\nhardest and\n\n435\n00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:43.150\nwe changed the advertising. I was new enough not to realize that you try not to\n\n436\n00:19:43.150 --> 00:19:44.000\ncross your agency\n\n437\n00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.870\nvery much. If you know, and David, you'll appreciate this. You know, the ad\n\n438\n00:19:47.870 --> 00:19:49.200\nagency loved the campaign\n\n439\n00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.280\nwe had and I didn't think it was working. So I didn't have a boss at the time\n\n440\n00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:54.080\nas I said. So Susan\n\n441\n00:19:54.080 --> 00:19:57.880\nwas too, too above me with nobody between me and her. And so I really didn't\n\n442\n00:19:57.880 --> 00:19:58.720\nhave a chance to ask\n\n443\n00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.960\nopinions. So I, because I couldn't see her that much, so I decided to just make\n\n444\n00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:03.840\nmy own commercial\n\n445\n00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:07.640\nwith a local agency. And it was, and I, and I did, and it was, it was a\n\n446\n00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:08.960\ncommercial where a guy\n\n447\n00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.100\ngot on screen and he just said, Hey, you know, this thing, this product is\n\n448\n00:20:13.100 --> 00:20:14.080\nbetter than whatever\n\n449\n00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:16.870\nyou're using. And if you don't think so, we'll buy you a stick of your own\n\n450\n00:20:16.870 --> 00:20:18.160\nproduct. I had a, it was\n\n451\n00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.850\nincredibly difficult to get that through legal because they were afraid we're\n\n452\n00:20:20.850 --> 00:20:21.600\ngoing to bankrupt\n\n453\n00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:24.760\nthe company. Because we're going to, it was a guarantee where you'd buy people\n\n454\n00:20:24.760 --> 00:20:25.360\ncompetitive\n\n455\n00:20:25.360 --> 00:20:28.380\nproduct if they decided that you, they wanted to. I wasn't worried about that\n\n456\n00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:29.040\nat all because\n\n457\n00:20:29.040 --> 00:20:31.600\nwe had your product. So the bottom lines, we did it. We had this young guy on\n\n458\n00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:32.320\nscreen doing it. He\n\n459\n00:20:32.320 --> 00:20:37.310\nwas very likable. And, and so we tested it. And it tested exactly like you\n\n460\n00:20:37.310 --> 00:20:38.560\nwould expect, based on\n\n461\n00:20:38.560 --> 00:20:41.870\nthe fact that I'm telling the story, it was one of the most boring ads ever\n\n462\n00:20:41.870 --> 00:20:43.200\ncreated. And\n\n463\n00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:49.120\nbut it was convincing. And so I, I went, I went to my agency, I went to Susan\n\n464\n00:20:49.120 --> 00:20:50.400\nand she said, look,\n\n465\n00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.800\nthis is boring, but it's very convincing. She said, uh, what do you want to do?\n\n466\n00:20:54.800 --> 00:20:55.200\nI said, I,\n\n467\n00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.480\nI think we should go with it. She said, then go with it. So we went with it.\n\n468\n00:20:58.480 --> 00:20:59.360\nAnd that plus all\n\n469\n00:20:59.360 --> 00:21:02.760\nthose other changes we made, you know, we doubled the market share in one year.\n\n470\n00:21:02.760 --> 00:21:03.440\nAnd then we doubled\n\n471\n00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.560\nit again. I went up 50% again the next year and then, and then 50% from there.\n\n472\n00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:07.120\nSo we just were\n\n473\n00:21:07.120 --> 00:21:13.010\noff to the races. That's fantastic. And, and then you did a huge turnaround at\n\n474\n00:21:13.010 --> 00:21:13.760\nthe Logitech.\n\n475\n00:21:13.760 --> 00:21:18.700\nWhat did you, what did you walk into in that situation? And, and do you have a\n\n476\n00:21:18.700 --> 00:21:19.360\nplaybook that\n\n477\n00:21:19.360 --> 00:21:23.830\nyou use or think about when you look at brands and, and, and they may be\n\n478\n00:21:23.830 --> 00:21:24.400\nstruggling?\n\n479\n00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:31.850\nThe situation in VF was very similar to the situation in Logitech. So, um, the,\n\n480\n00:21:31.850 --> 00:21:32.320\nthe business\n\n481\n00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:37.310\nwas in decline. The products, the products, uh, weren't in, in Logitech, the\n\n482\n00:21:37.310 --> 00:21:38.320\nproducts weren't good\n\n483\n00:21:38.320 --> 00:21:42.940\nenough. Um, and we had, we had kind of under invested in product development\n\n484\n00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:43.920\nand innovation.\n\n485\n00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:48.380\nUm, and we didn't have any designers. So we had literally all of our design was\n\n486\n00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:48.480\n,\n\n487\n00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.080\nwas outside. So we didn't have any desires in the room. And I'd come from Braun\n\n488\n00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:52.320\n.\n\n489\n00:21:52.320 --> 00:21:55.720\nI don't know if you know Braun, but Braun Shavers and, and Blaters. And there's\n\n490\n00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:56.320\nthis\n\n491\n00:21:56.320 --> 00:22:01.070\nvery famous designer named Dieter Ron's who I'd gotten to, uh, meet with a lot.\n\n492\n00:22:01.070 --> 00:22:01.920\nAnd, and Braun\n\n493\n00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:06.320\nwas really a, a closest thing I'd have experienced to a design company. Uh, you\n\n494\n00:22:06.320 --> 00:22:06.880\nknow, Dieter Ron's\n\n495\n00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.280\nwas the inspiration, one of the big inspirations for Johnny I, that Johnny,\n\n496\n00:22:10.280 --> 00:22:11.360\nJohnny told me later.\n\n497\n00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:15.600\nAnd so, so I, I fell in love with design there. And I, and I decided I wanted\n\n498\n00:22:15.600 --> 00:22:16.320\nto create a design\n\n499\n00:22:16.320 --> 00:22:20.840\ncompany. And when I, so the, the central change that we made was to, to really\n\n500\n00:22:20.840 --> 00:22:21.520\nget the company\n\n501\n00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:26.080\nfolks to round design. What is design? Design is, is about creating, uh, an\n\n502\n00:22:26.080 --> 00:22:27.200\nexperience for users\n\n503\n00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.710\naround what users really need, whether they can express that need or not, or\n\n504\n00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:32.240\nwhat they want. And\n\n505\n00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:37.330\nso, so I hired my first designer who was, uh, Alistair Curtis, who, who\n\n506\n00:22:37.330 --> 00:22:38.800\nactually I have hired here. So\n\n507\n00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:42.430\nhe's worked with me at VF again. He worked with me for 10 years there. And we\n\n508\n00:22:42.430 --> 00:22:43.600\nreally went, we, we\n\n509\n00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:46.780\nresized the company because we'd gotten too fat. We're really the company grown\n\n510\n00:22:46.780 --> 00:22:47.520\njust like VF\n\n511\n00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:51.100\nfor a long, long, long time. And then when it stopped, we realized, well, for\n\n512\n00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.680\nthe last years,\n\n513\n00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.160\nwe were still really good at growing the company, but only in an overhead, not\n\n514\n00:22:55.160 --> 00:22:56.160\nin revenue. And\n\n515\n00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.660\nthat's a problem. So we, we had to resize the company. And then we really\n\n516\n00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:00.480\nfocused on getting\n\n517\n00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.280\ngreat products and building the brand. And, and the rest is kind of history. I\n\n518\n00:23:04.280 --> 00:23:05.200\nmean, it was a very\n\n519\n00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:09.000\ngreat, it was a really exciting story. I think we 10x the value of the company\n\n520\n00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:10.480\nover 10 years. And,\n\n521\n00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:17.060\nyou know, we'll see if we can do that at VF. But how do you bring this design,\n\n522\n00:23:17.060 --> 00:23:17.600\ncreativity,\n\n523\n00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:23.410\ninnovation? How do you bring that to 125 year old apparel company? You know,\n\n524\n00:23:23.410 --> 00:23:24.160\nthe cool thing is,\n\n525\n00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:30.050\npeople are hungry for great design. Consumers are hungry for it. Employees are\n\n526\n00:23:30.050 --> 00:23:31.040\nhungry for it.\n\n527\n00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:36.240\nDesign is, extends way beyond the product you've delivered to users. It's also,\n\n528\n00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.440\nyou can design your benefits program. So they're built around the users in your\n\n529\n00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:40.000\ncompany. You can\n\n530\n00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.520\ndesign your accounting and the way you close your books every quarter so that\n\n531\n00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:44.240\nit's designed around\n\n532\n00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.920\nthe people who need to get that done so they can move on to the next quarter.\n\n533\n00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:48.560\nYou can design\n\n534\n00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:52.420\neverything and you really should be designing everything. And so I think\n\n535\n00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:53.600\ngetting people excited\n\n536\n00:23:53.600 --> 00:23:58.000\nabout the concept of design isn't hard because at the end, what you're really\n\n537\n00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:58.960\nsaying is let's all\n\n538\n00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:03.680\ncare about the user. Now, if some people are closer to the user of our products\n\n539\n00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.640\nand what we do to\n\n540\n00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.600\ncreate those products than others in the company, but we all support that\n\n541\n00:24:07.600 --> 00:24:09.760\nsomehow. And so, and we're\n\n542\n00:24:09.760 --> 00:24:14.920\nall users inside the company of our own services. So it's early days, just like\n\n543\n00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:15.760\nit was about two\n\n544\n00:24:15.760 --> 00:24:20.310\nyears in at Logitech. You know, I certainly don't think I had, I don't think we\n\n545\n00:24:20.310 --> 00:24:21.920\n'd transformed Logitech\n\n546\n00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:25.980\ninto a design company after two years. But give us five and I think we can and\n\n547\n00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:26.800\nwe'll do it here\n\n548\n00:24:26.800 --> 00:24:31.220\nto a VF. You know, it seems to me, you know, when you're talking about design,\n\n549\n00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:31.840\ninnovation,\n\n550\n00:24:31.840 --> 00:24:37.730\ncreativity, you know, obviously the marketing teams can probably gravitate to a\n\n551\n00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:38.000\nquicker,\n\n552\n00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:43.350\nbut you're talking about design across all aspects of the business. You're in\n\n553\n00:24:43.350 --> 00:24:44.880\ninculcating that into\n\n554\n00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:50.340\nyour culture. How do you do that, Bracken? I mean, how do you get somebody in\n\n555\n00:24:50.340 --> 00:24:51.280\naccounting\n\n556\n00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:55.250\nto think about design? I mean, they're further away from the customer, like you\n\n557\n00:24:55.250 --> 00:24:55.680\nsay.\n\n558\n00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:01.200\nI think design, the term design can be intimidating because it can sound like\n\n559\n00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:01.760\nthe domain\n\n560\n00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:07.520\nof Virgil Ablow, you know, or, or Pharrell, you know, who are great design\n\n561\n00:25:07.520 --> 00:25:08.880\nleaders or designers.\n\n562\n00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.990\nBut if you can simplify it into, you know, how do you make, how do you make\n\n563\n00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:15.120\nthis better for users?\n\n564\n00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:21.650\nWhich is really what it's all about. How do you make this? My ideal scenario,\n\n565\n00:25:21.650 --> 00:25:21.840\nokay,\n\n566\n00:25:21.840 --> 00:25:25.340\nthis is a, I'll dream for a little bit here. My ideal scenario is that no\n\n567\n00:25:25.340 --> 00:25:26.080\nmatter what,\n\n568\n00:25:26.080 --> 00:25:30.730\nhow you interact with our company, whether you buy our products, or you sell to\n\n569\n00:25:30.730 --> 00:25:30.960\nus,\n\n570\n00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:34.800\nor you just walk in the lobby one time and you never come back, somehow we make\n\n571\n00:25:34.800 --> 00:25:35.280\nyour life a\n\n572\n00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:38.770\nlittle better. That's the goal, everywhere. And then if you take the people\n\n573\n00:25:38.770 --> 00:25:40.240\ninside the company,\n\n574\n00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:44.120\nmy goal is that everybody in the company is growing the entire time they're\n\n575\n00:25:44.120 --> 00:25:44.480\nhere,\n\n576\n00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:49.360\nand they're, they're positively growing all the time. So, so to do that, you've\n\n577\n00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:50.080\ngot to care about\n\n578\n00:25:50.080 --> 00:25:54.080\nit. So we, you know, our values, we define growth, you know, really being a,\n\n579\n00:25:54.080 --> 00:25:55.680\nhaving a growth mindset\n\n580\n00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.840\nis one of our core values. And we're, we're building training programs\n\n581\n00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:01.520\ninternally that are very much\n\n582\n00:26:01.520 --> 00:26:05.680\nabout personal growth and growing yourself and your capability that connects\n\n583\n00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:06.240\ndirectly\n\n584\n00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.560\nto growing our brands and growing our business and growing our share price and\n\n585\n00:26:09.560 --> 00:26:10.400\ngrowing everything.\n\n586\n00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:15.860\nAnd you know, all that can only happen if we do two things. Well, one, we\n\n587\n00:26:15.860 --> 00:26:16.960\ncreate products that\n\n588\n00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:20.050\npeople want to put on and feel, and they feel a little better about themselves\n\n589\n00:26:20.050 --> 00:26:20.800\nwhen they do.\n\n590\n00:26:20.800 --> 00:26:24.600\nAnd the second one is we create these clubs that people want to be part of.\n\n591\n00:26:24.600 --> 00:26:24.960\nThey feel an\n\n592\n00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:29.100\naffiliation with, they feel part, they feel ownership of in a way called brands\n\n593\n00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:30.240\n. You know,\n\n594\n00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.820\nand I think when we do those two things well, the whole, the whole system can\n\n595\n00:26:33.820 --> 00:26:35.280\nwork. And that's\n\n596\n00:26:35.280 --> 00:26:38.540\nwhat we're working on. And I won't pretend that it's easy. And I, and I don't\n\n597\n00:26:38.540 --> 00:26:39.440\nthink you ever got\n\n598\n00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:42.600\nall the way there in, in a lodge deck. And maybe you do never get all the way\n\n599\n00:26:42.600 --> 00:26:43.040\nthere,\n\n600\n00:26:43.040 --> 00:26:46.960\nbut it's such an exciting thing to try. And along the way, I think you can make\n\n601\n00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:47.280\nhuge,\n\n602\n00:26:47.280 --> 00:26:51.360\nhuge impact and value creation. You know, you're, you're leading a portfolio of\n\n603\n00:26:51.360 --> 00:26:51.840\nsome of the world's\n\n604\n00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:57.270\nmost iconic lifestyle brands. And I'd like to go through a few of the brands\n\n605\n00:26:57.270 --> 00:26:58.480\nand pull out a key\n\n606\n00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.720\nstory from, from each one of them. You know, let's start with North Face. You\n\n607\n00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:04.240\nknow, when a product\n\n608\n00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:09.000\nlike the, the puffer jacket suddenly becomes a fashion statement, you know, how\n\n609\n00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:10.480\ndo you make sure\n\n610\n00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:16.400\nthe brand's purpose exploration and performance doesn't get lost? Yeah, you\n\n611\n00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:17.520\nknow, it's a, it's a\n\n612\n00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:20.860\ngreat question. So Caroline Brown, who runs that brand, and she's got a\n\n613\n00:27:20.860 --> 00:27:22.240\nfantastic team around her.\n\n614\n00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:26.640\nWe talk about that a lot, because we talk about there are two kinds of people\n\n615\n00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:27.520\nwe're really catering\n\n616\n00:27:27.520 --> 00:27:31.320\nto. And then the bulk of our market is in the middle. On the one end of the\n\n617\n00:27:31.320 --> 00:27:32.640\nspectrum, it's the\n\n618\n00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:36.300\nobsessive explorer. It's the person who's just obsessed. Alex Honnold, you know\n\n619\n00:27:36.300 --> 00:27:37.840\n, who is obsessed\n\n620\n00:27:37.840 --> 00:27:40.960\nwith exploring the edge of everything, you know, the guy who did free solo.\n\n621\n00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:41.760\nYeah, he's going to climb a\n\n622\n00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:45.750\nhundred and one story office tower and Taipei soon with no ropes. You know,\n\n623\n00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:46.960\nthese are the people,\n\n624\n00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:51.650\nand we literally develop products for those people to optimize to perfect their\n\n625\n00:27:51.650 --> 00:27:52.400\nexperience,\n\n626\n00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.050\nbecause there really is a life and death experience when we develop products\n\n627\n00:27:56.050 --> 00:27:56.800\nfor them. And the same\n\n628\n00:27:56.800 --> 00:27:59.760\nthing for person who's climbing Everest or skiing down Everest, we've got\n\n629\n00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:02.160\npeople have skied down\n\n630\n00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:05.330\nEverest, believe it or not. So we've got all these athletes who really are on\n\n631\n00:28:05.330 --> 00:28:06.720\nthe very edge of it.\n\n632\n00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:09.150\nOn the other end of the spectrum, you've got, you've got people who really love\n\n633\n00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:10.160\nto express who they are.\n\n634\n00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.080\nAnd they're also part of our family. So we do collaborations with Gucci and\n\n635\n00:28:14.080 --> 00:28:17.680\ncollaborations with a lot of, you know, skims. And, you know, so being able to\n\n636\n00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:18.320\nexpress yourself,\n\n637\n00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:22.120\nbut they still believe in that. They still like the performance attributes or\n\n638\n00:28:22.120 --> 00:28:23.120\naspect of the brand,\n\n639\n00:28:23.120 --> 00:28:26.520\nbut they have a different need that we've got to deliver. And there's everybody\n\n640\n00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:27.200\nin between.\n\n641\n00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.230\nSo we try to make sure that every one of our products has this performance\n\n642\n00:28:31.230 --> 00:28:33.520\ndimension that echoes\n\n643\n00:28:33.520 --> 00:28:38.320\nthrough through from the from that Alex Honnold experience all the way through\n\n644\n00:28:38.320 --> 00:28:39.040\nto the consumer,\n\n645\n00:28:39.040 --> 00:28:41.840\neven if they're wearing it just too good on the New York subway and stay warm.\n\n646\n00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:46.840\nThat's great. And Vans has always been rooted in creativity and a youth culture\n\n647\n00:28:46.840 --> 00:28:46.960\n.\n\n648\n00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:52.310\nWhat's the leadership takeaway you've drawn from from that team about keeping a\n\n649\n00:28:52.310 --> 00:28:53.440\nbrand fresh and\n\n650\n00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.910\nrelevant? You know, we're in the middle of that now and Sanjay runs that brand.\n\n651\n00:28:57.910 --> 00:28:59.040\nAnd she's uh,\n\n652\n00:28:59.040 --> 00:29:03.970\nshe's a perfect example of the brand's off the wall idea. I mean, I think you\n\n653\n00:29:03.970 --> 00:29:04.640\n've got to get down\n\n654\n00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.240\nto the real essence of what the brand's all about. And if you really get down\n\n655\n00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:08.800\nto the essence of\n\n656\n00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:12.800\nwhat what Vans is all about, it's about being off the wall. It's about being a\n\n657\n00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:13.360\nlittle different,\n\n658\n00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:16.180\nfeeling good about yourself, being different. You know, I think you and I\n\n659\n00:29:16.180 --> 00:29:17.440\nprobably can relate\n\n660\n00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.120\ngoing back to when we were 13 and 14. You felt different. I felt different.\n\n661\n00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:22.640\nEverybody feels different.\n\n662\n00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.990\nYou know, Vans gives you permission to feel different but be part of something.\n\n663\n00:29:25.990 --> 00:29:26.480\nYou're off the\n\n664\n00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.480\nwall and the more different you are, the more exciting it is. And so I think we\n\n665\n00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:31.440\nbrought back the\n\n666\n00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:35.680\nwork tour, which you may or may not know what it is, but it was this big music\n\n667\n00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:37.360\nfestival that ran\n\n668\n00:29:37.360 --> 00:29:41.300\nmulti cities around the world for many years. And we stopped in 2018 well\n\n669\n00:29:41.300 --> 00:29:42.240\nbefore I got there.\n\n670\n00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:48.320\nAnd uh, and we with Kevin Lyman, a guy who runs and runs the tour now in\n\n671\n00:29:48.320 --> 00:29:49.280\npartnership with us,\n\n672\n00:29:49.280 --> 00:29:53.200\nwe restarted it this year. And it's so exciting, you know, because it you\n\n673\n00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.000\nreally get to see\n\n674\n00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:00.990\nhow deeply embedded in the culture this off the wall mindset is in in in all\n\n675\n00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:01.520\nthese cities we've\n\n676\n00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:04.480\nbeen to so far. We've done in two cities so far. We're doing a third in Orlando\n\n677\n00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:05.040\nin November,\n\n678\n00:30:05.040 --> 00:30:09.440\n85,000 people in two days. It's one of the biggest music festivals there is now\n\n679\n00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.040\n. It's so fun.\n\n680\n00:30:11.040 --> 00:30:14.080\nYeah, I just went to bourbon and beyond here in Louisville. So I'll have to hit\n\n681\n00:30:14.080 --> 00:30:14.720\none of those up.\n\n682\n00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.200\nThat sounds like a lot of fun. You know, you said something that was really\n\n683\n00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:19.440\ninteresting to me is,\n\n684\n00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:24.800\nwhich is you know, consumers want to feel different and be a part of something.\n\n685\n00:30:24.800 --> 00:30:30.000\nTalk about the and be a part of something part of that statement.\n\n686\n00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:36.400\nYou know, human beings are social or super social, right? We even the least\n\n687\n00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:37.440\nsocial of us are social.\n\n688\n00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:43.440\nWe love people and we love to be a part of a group. And I think that the brands\n\n689\n00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.560\nbrands have\n\n690\n00:30:44.560 --> 00:30:50.420\neach brand has its own soul, you know, and some brands you feel more part of\n\n691\n00:30:50.420 --> 00:30:51.360\nthan others. And I\n\n692\n00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:56.390\nthink that's it. That's at the heart of brand building and consumer market and\n\n693\n00:30:56.390 --> 00:30:57.840\nconsumer marketing.\n\n694\n00:30:57.840 --> 00:31:01.360\nAnd it's one of the things I love the most about it, you know, about consumer\n\n695\n00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:02.160\nbrands is that you\n\n696\n00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:07.390\nreally do feel association with them. And when you look someone in the eyes who\n\n697\n00:31:07.390 --> 00:31:08.720\n's wearing the same\n\n698\n00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.940\nthing you are, in our case, you know, another person wearing bands, you feel a\n\n699\n00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:13.280\nlittle close to them.\n\n700\n00:31:13.280 --> 00:31:16.480\nThere's something there, you know, Timberland boots is another one. You know, I\n\n701\n00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:17.600\nlove Tim's because\n\n702\n00:31:17.600 --> 00:31:21.130\nno matter where, you know, if you go to a basketball game and you get lucky\n\n703\n00:31:21.130 --> 00:31:22.080\nenough to get near the\n\n704\n00:31:22.080 --> 00:31:25.580\nfloor, you're going to see people wearing Timberlands on that floor, especially\n\n705\n00:31:25.580 --> 00:31:26.560\nif you're in Madison\n\n706\n00:31:26.560 --> 00:31:30.640\nSquare Garden, where Tim's representing New York also represent Baltimore and\n\n707\n00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:32.000\nChicago and Atlanta,\n\n708\n00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.480\nothers, Detroit. But there's something about Tim's that everybody wears them\n\n709\n00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:37.120\nwhen you see other\n\n710\n00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:41.140\npeople in them, you feel like, Hey, we're part of that group. You know, you're\n\n711\n00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:41.520\nI'm one of you.\n\n712\n00:31:41.520 --> 00:31:48.160\nYou know, you say hip hop owns Tim's, you know, we just shepherd it. Say more.\n\n713\n00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:54.560\nYou know, I think the the Schwartz family who created Timberland would be the\n\n714\n00:31:54.560 --> 00:31:55.600\nfirst to say and\n\n715\n00:31:55.600 --> 00:32:01.110\nthey have that when they created the brand, you know, the hip hop movement\n\n716\n00:32:01.110 --> 00:32:02.320\nreally picked it up and\n\n717\n00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:07.040\nran with it and and really created and embedded it in the culture. And it was\n\n718\n00:32:07.040 --> 00:32:09.040\nthe yellow boot that's\n\n719\n00:32:09.040 --> 00:32:12.990\nthat was born in the same year hip hop was born. And so they've grown up\n\n720\n00:32:12.990 --> 00:32:15.040\ntogether and and I would\n\n721\n00:32:15.040 --> 00:32:20.230\nsay no brand is more owned by its culture than Timberland is owned by the hip\n\n722\n00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:21.760\nhop culture. And so\n\n723\n00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:25.560\nwe're very aware of that. I'm very aware of that. I love that aspect of it. We\n\n724\n00:32:25.560 --> 00:32:26.880\ntry to we try to\n\n725\n00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:30.680\nreally pay homage to it all the time, because it's so important to the brand.\n\n726\n00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:31.200\nYou know, you can't\n\n727\n00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:33.440\nreally, I don't know, I don't know if you feel this way, David, you've been\n\n728\n00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:34.640\ndoing concerned brands\n\n729\n00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:38.560\nyour whole life. But in a way, a really strong brand, you don't really own it.\n\n730\n00:32:38.560 --> 00:32:41.440\nThe users who own\n\n731\n00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:45.510\nit, especially those who feel most passionate about it, you what you can do is\n\n732\n00:32:45.510 --> 00:32:46.960\ncontribute to that,\n\n733\n00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:51.590\nbut you and support it. And that's what we do. Yeah, and you you've got this\n\n734\n00:32:51.590 --> 00:32:52.800\nnotion, which I\n\n735\n00:32:52.800 --> 00:32:57.970\nreally love of having your brands being a part part of a club, creating a club\n\n736\n00:32:57.970 --> 00:32:58.800\nthat people want\n\n737\n00:32:58.800 --> 00:33:03.060\nto be a part of. I love that. Now, you've really leaned into influencer\n\n738\n00:33:03.060 --> 00:33:05.440\npartnerships at VF.\n\n739\n00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:10.780\nWhat's the story about one that's been a runaway success and what has taught\n\n740\n00:33:10.780 --> 00:33:11.120\nyou?\n\n741\n00:33:11.120 --> 00:33:14.160\nWell, it's it's so early to call anything a runaway success. Yeah, because I've\n\n742\n00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:14.640\nonly been here a\n\n743\n00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:20.000\ncouple of years. I'm very excited about SZA. SZA has agreed to be an artistic\n\n744\n00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:21.040\ndirector for us\n\n745\n00:33:21.040 --> 00:33:26.960\non Vans. And that might sound like just a name, but she's literally directly\n\n746\n00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:28.000\ninvolved in brainstorming\n\n747\n00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.840\nwhere we're going next, what off the wall really is going to mean. I think for\n\n748\n00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:32.320\nthe for these\n\n749\n00:33:32.320 --> 00:33:36.400\ninfluencer relationships to work, they have to be real. I mean, they have to\n\n750\n00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.280\nyou can't just pay\n\n751\n00:33:37.280 --> 00:33:41.680\nmoney and have somebody put them on and think they're going to work. SZA, I\n\n752\n00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.200\nthink she actually\n\n753\n00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:47.350\ncame to us because she's she loved Vans. She loved the off the wall idea. She\n\n754\n00:33:47.350 --> 00:33:48.640\nfeels off the wall.\n\n755\n00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:52.240\nAnd if you follow her, she is off the wall. And I think she also is a great\n\n756\n00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:53.360\nrepresentative of\n\n757\n00:33:53.360 --> 00:33:58.300\nso many people in in this world who, you know, are trying new things on a\n\n758\n00:33:58.300 --> 00:33:59.440\nregular basis and\n\n759\n00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:03.580\ntrying out stuff and not afraid to take chances and fail. And so I love that.\n\n760\n00:34:03.580 --> 00:34:05.120\nAnd I think we're\n\n761\n00:34:05.120 --> 00:34:08.640\nI can't talk about it. We've got several things in the pipeline on influencers\n\n762\n00:34:08.640 --> 00:34:09.120\nthat I'm very\n\n763\n00:34:09.120 --> 00:34:12.710\nexcited about and always trying to be really true to the brands, but also\n\n764\n00:34:12.710 --> 00:34:13.440\nstretch them.\n\n765\n00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:18.470\nYou definitely are doing that. And you know, can you give me an example of\n\n766\n00:34:18.470 --> 00:34:19.600\nwhere you have all these\n\n767\n00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:24.080\nbrands? They're they're iconic in their own right. Do you keep them independent\n\n768\n00:34:24.080 --> 00:34:25.360\nor do you ask them\n\n769\n00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:29.760\nto share or what you're thinking about embracing other people's ideas and\n\n770\n00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:31.360\ncollaboration? Is this\n\n771\n00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:35.550\na competitive advantage for you? Or how do you think about that whole\n\n772\n00:34:35.550 --> 00:34:37.120\nindependence of the brands\n\n773\n00:34:37.120 --> 00:34:41.200\nand collaboration? I guess I'll address that two ways. One is independence of\n\n774\n00:34:41.200 --> 00:34:42.080\nthe brands within our\n\n775\n00:34:42.080 --> 00:34:47.960\ncompany that we we operate very independently. So each brand has its own teams\n\n776\n00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:48.640\nof build it,\n\n777\n00:34:48.640 --> 00:34:53.900\nwork on it. And we do overlap in some areas and where we do, we try to make\n\n778\n00:34:53.900 --> 00:34:54.800\nsure that the brands\n\n779\n00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.450\ndon't lose any of their their their soul, you know, the definition of what they\n\n780\n00:34:58.450 --> 00:34:59.120\n're all about.\n\n781\n00:34:59.120 --> 00:35:03.270\nWhen you talk about collaborations with other companies, I think they can\n\n782\n00:35:03.270 --> 00:35:03.520\nreally\n\n783\n00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:07.920\nyeah, I've learned this because we didn't do many collaborations in in Logitech\n\n784\n00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:08.960\n. I've learned that\n\n785\n00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.440\nI think collaborations can be very powerful as long as as long as you respect\n\n786\n00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:14.480\nwhat each brand's all\n\n787\n00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:19.620\nabout. And there's an overlap that is really that that connective tissue that\n\n788\n00:35:19.620 --> 00:35:20.960\ncan can make each brand\n\n789\n00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:24.800\nstronger. I think we just did a collaboration with Telfer in Timberland. And it\n\n790\n00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:26.000\n's an interesting one\n\n791\n00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:30.790\nwhere they've got a they've got bags that that honestly feel very Timberland\n\n792\n00:35:30.790 --> 00:35:32.000\nand we're co-designed\n\n793\n00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:36.800\nby us with them and their boots, which they vary the normal yellow boot to be\n\n794\n00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:38.400\nit's not tied. It's\n\n795\n00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:42.550\nit's kind of like a wrinkle boot. It's really cool. It feels very Timberland. I\n\n796\n00:35:42.550 --> 00:35:43.280\nthink it's a very\n\n797\n00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.760\nstretching collaboration. I really like it. And we've got several of those we\n\n798\n00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:48.800\n've done we did a\n\n799\n00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:53.840\nanother one on Timberland with Louis Vuitton, where Feral took the boot and and\n\n800\n00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:54.400\nturned it into a\n\n801\n00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:59.450\nLouis Vuitton boot. But it feels very elevated for Timberland and right and yet\n\n802\n00:35:59.450 --> 00:36:00.720\nfeels very culture\n\n803\n00:36:00.720 --> 00:36:04.270\nright for for Louis Vuitton. I think those are good examples of ones that\n\n804\n00:36:04.270 --> 00:36:04.880\nreally work.\n\n805\n00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:09.760\nYeah, I'm going to run out and check those out. I love it. You know, what do\n\n806\n00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:10.240\nyou look\n\n807\n00:36:10.240 --> 00:36:13.760\nlook at in the leaders who who run your individual brands? I mean, what are you\n\n808\n00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:14.880\nreally looking for?\n\n809\n00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:20.420\nYou know, I think the most important thing in a in a leader is drive. You know,\n\n810\n00:36:20.420 --> 00:36:20.800\nyou can,\n\n811\n00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:24.940\nyou know, everybody's smart, you know, by the time you get to about age 33 or\n\n812\n00:36:24.940 --> 00:36:25.840\n35 or something,\n\n813\n00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:30.000\nI think IQ is really a distribution curve really gets tight. So everybody's\n\n814\n00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.800\nsmart. And you can\n\n815\n00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:36.630\ndevelop the social skills you need, you know, every time. But but there's\n\n816\n00:36:36.630 --> 00:36:37.600\nsomething inside\n\n817\n00:36:37.600 --> 00:36:41.290\nsome people who have a lot of drive and really want to make a difference and\n\n818\n00:36:41.290 --> 00:36:42.080\nwant to have a big\n\n819\n00:36:42.080 --> 00:36:46.860\nimpact. So that's one. I love people who are extremely driven and I just want\n\n820\n00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:47.520\nto have a big\n\n821\n00:36:47.520 --> 00:36:52.600\nimpact and a positive impact on people and on the business. So that's probably\n\n822\n00:36:52.600 --> 00:36:53.600\nthe most important\n\n823\n00:36:53.600 --> 00:36:59.520\none. I'd say there certainly are others. I am I admit biased to people who are\n\n824\n00:36:59.520 --> 00:37:00.400\nwho love speed.\n\n825\n00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:05.540\nI'm not a fast car driver. I'm not even into cars. But I do believe that, you\n\n826\n00:37:05.540 --> 00:37:06.480\nknow, there's a lot\n\n827\n00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.530\nof discussion around moats and competitive advantage and all that stuff. I\n\n828\n00:37:09.530 --> 00:37:10.960\nthink in the end, you know,\n\n829\n00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:13.910\nhaving an orientation to be faster than everybody else is probably as good as\n\n830\n00:37:13.910 --> 00:37:15.840\nany. And so people\n\n831\n00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:20.830\nwho just get stuff done very quickly always impress me. And so I noticed it in\n\n832\n00:37:20.830 --> 00:37:22.320\ninterviews and I really\n\n833\n00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:26.880\nnoticed it at work. That's great. You know, as CEO, you got to make a lot of\n\n834\n00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:28.080\ntough calls. And\n\n835\n00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:34.240\nbefore you join VF, the company acquired Supreme for $2.1 billion, only to sell\n\n836\n00:37:34.240 --> 00:37:35.600\nit later for $600\n\n837\n00:37:35.600 --> 00:37:42.130\nbillion loss. You know, I think this was under in under four years. Yeah, take\n\n838\n00:37:42.130 --> 00:37:43.120\nus inside your head\n\n839\n00:37:43.120 --> 00:37:49.650\non on how you make a decision like that. Yeah. So so Supreme is a fantastic\n\n840\n00:37:49.650 --> 00:37:49.920\nbrand.\n\n841\n00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:56.370\nAnd it's a fantastic business. I love the whole story live Supreme. It's a very\n\n842\n00:37:56.370 --> 00:37:57.680\nunique business model.\n\n843\n00:37:57.680 --> 00:38:01.360\nIt runs differently from all the rest of our brands runs independently of all\n\n844\n00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:01.760\nthe rest of our\n\n845\n00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:06.160\nbrands completely independently or ran independently. It was now what does that\n\n846\n00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:07.360\nmean? That means from\n\n847\n00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:12.240\na marketing distribution, selling, product creation, supply chain, everything\n\n848\n00:38:12.240 --> 00:38:13.600\nis independent inside\n\n849\n00:38:13.600 --> 00:38:18.300\nSupreme when I arrived. It also is worth. It's a very valuable brand. It's a\n\n850\n00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:20.320\nworth $1.5 billion.\n\n851\n00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:25.200\nSo the starting part for me was the strategically is this brand fit inside our\n\n852\n00:38:25.200 --> 00:38:26.160\nportfolio.\n\n853\n00:38:26.160 --> 00:38:31.510\nIt's much more of a fashion street brand than a performance brand. Many of our\n\n854\n00:38:31.510 --> 00:38:32.480\nbrands, as you know,\n\n855\n00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.880\nlike North Face are very performance oriented. While they sell a lot of\n\n856\n00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:36.880\nlifestyle products,\n\n857\n00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:41.290\nthat's a crescendo off of a performance story. That's not the case of Supreme.\n\n858\n00:38:41.290 --> 00:38:42.000\nSupreme's a street\n\n859\n00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:48.070\nstory. And it's a business. It's a model story. So I would say Supreme stood\n\n860\n00:38:48.070 --> 00:38:49.680\nout for not for being\n\n861\n00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:54.400\ndifferent and independent. In a company of independent brands, it was by far\n\n862\n00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:54.720\nthe most\n\n863\n00:38:54.720 --> 00:38:59.200\nindependent. For me, it was a fairly easy decision. We got very fortunate that\n\n864\n00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:00.880\nanother company was\n\n865\n00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:04.680\nreally interested in Luxautica, who we reached out to behind the scenes, one of\n\n866\n00:39:04.680 --> 00:39:05.520\nmy leaders did.\n\n867\n00:39:05.520 --> 00:39:08.960\nAnd we got a really an excellent price for it, even though it was a loss of $\n\n868\n00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:10.320\n600 million versus\n\n869\n00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.500\nthe original purchase price. It was well above what anybody thought we would\n\n870\n00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:14.640\nget for it. So\n\n871\n00:39:14.640 --> 00:39:18.190\nit was a great price. It was a great exit. And I think it's in a great home now\n\n872\n00:39:18.190 --> 00:39:18.480\n.\n\n873\n00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:24.370\nYou mentioned earlier that AI is impacting your business today. How is it, Prok\n\n874\n00:39:24.370 --> 00:39:24.720\nken?\n\n875\n00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:29.750\nWe probably have. I don't think I'm exaggerating 20 different AI activities\n\n876\n00:39:29.750 --> 00:39:30.720\ngoing on in the business\n\n877\n00:39:30.720 --> 00:39:36.030\nranging from financial reporting to how we create products to how we design\n\n878\n00:39:36.030 --> 00:39:37.600\nproducts. So\n\n879\n00:39:37.600 --> 00:39:41.750\nthere's a and how we market them. So it's really going to touch everything.\n\n880\n00:39:41.750 --> 00:39:42.880\nMost of those are in\n\n881\n00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.290\nrelatively small scale right now. We've got a few things that we've scaled like\n\n882\n00:39:46.290 --> 00:39:47.200\ncustomer service.\n\n883\n00:39:48.160 --> 00:39:53.280\nBut I think AI is, I don't want to minimize it because we all know how\n\n884\n00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:54.240\nimportant it is.\n\n885\n00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:58.240\nBut it's another tool that we all have to use. And we have to figure out how to\n\n886\n00:39:58.240 --> 00:39:58.800\nbring it into\n\n887\n00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:00.640\nour business appropriately. And that's what we're doing.\n\n888\n00:40:00.640 --> 00:40:05.040\nAnd for you personally, how are you using AI to make you a more effective\n\n889\n00:40:05.040 --> 00:40:06.640\nleader? And what advice\n\n890\n00:40:06.640 --> 00:40:11.350\ncan you give to leaders on how to really be able to lead in that area because\n\n891\n00:40:11.350 --> 00:40:12.640\nit's going to be so\n\n892\n00:40:12.640 --> 00:40:17.040\nimportant? You know, I have two comments on that. The first one is I personally\n\n893\n00:40:17.040 --> 00:40:19.440\nuse AI tools a lot.\n\n894\n00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:26.090\nSo I use chat UBT. I use lots of different tools. And I use them in my personal\n\n895\n00:40:26.090 --> 00:40:26.960\nlife, my work life.\n\n896\n00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:30.520\nFor example, I get all my medical information. I put it into a chat UBT. I take\n\n897\n00:40:30.520 --> 00:40:31.440\nmy name off it.\n\n898\n00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:37.330\nAnd I ask you know, give me advice on what I should do. It's a good second test\n\n899\n00:40:37.330 --> 00:40:38.560\nagainst my doctor.\n\n900\n00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:42.160\nAnd I've got several doctors. So it's great. And you know, I think you can just\n\n901\n00:40:42.160 --> 00:40:42.800\ndo that in every\n\n902\n00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:46.280\npart of your life. And I'm sure many of your listeners are. You know, the\n\n903\n00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:47.680\nsecond thing I'd say is,\n\n904\n00:40:47.680 --> 00:40:51.900\nI think there are two big decisions to make when it comes to any application of\n\n905\n00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:52.480\nAI.\n\n906\n00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:56.450\nOne is, am I going to give it to the lowest level person who might be able to\n\n907\n00:40:56.450 --> 00:40:57.520\nuse it today\n\n908\n00:40:57.520 --> 00:41:01.600\nso they can be more productive? Or am I going to give it to the highest level\n\n909\n00:41:01.600 --> 00:41:02.560\nperson who can\n\n910\n00:41:02.560 --> 00:41:05.870\nimagine how it can be used today so they can make the whole company more\n\n911\n00:41:05.870 --> 00:41:06.720\nproductive?\n\n912\n00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:11.120\nThat might sound like an easy answer or even a little duplicative, but it's not\n\n913\n00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:11.120\n.\n\n914\n00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:17.200\nYou know, sometimes the best application of AI is actually to remove a whole\n\n915\n00:41:17.200 --> 00:41:17.680\nfunction\n\n916\n00:41:17.680 --> 00:41:23.120\nand replace it. It will probably generate more jobs somewhere else. But for\n\n917\n00:41:23.120 --> 00:41:23.680\nthat function,\n\n918\n00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:27.830\nit won't be the, well, and then the many other times, most other times the best\n\n919\n00:41:27.830 --> 00:41:28.800\napplication of AI\n\n920\n00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.290\nis to give it to the person who's designing something today so they can come up\n\n921\n00:41:32.290 --> 00:41:32.880\nwith 50\n\n922\n00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.970\ndesigns and they can filter our 500 designs and filter it down to the two they\n\n923\n00:41:35.970 --> 00:41:36.720\nreally love.\n\n924\n00:41:36.720 --> 00:41:41.750\nSo I just think those are two things that I'm really observing about AI and how\n\n925\n00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:42.560\nto begin to\n\n926\n00:41:42.560 --> 00:41:46.960\ndevelop it and they're not easy answers. A lot of people see AI as a big\n\n927\n00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:49.200\nproductivity driver,\n\n928\n00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:53.680\nbut very few people talk about it on the revenue side. How do you think about\n\n929\n00:41:53.680 --> 00:41:54.480\nthat in terms of\n\n930\n00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:00.370\nsatisfying customers driving revenue? I don't know yet. I think it will be a\n\n931\n00:42:00.370 --> 00:42:01.120\nrevenue driver.\n\n932\n00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.480\nIt's certainly going to be a productivity driver. It's hard for me to say yet.\n\n933\n00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:08.960\nBecause I spent so\n\n934\n00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:13.100\nmuch time with Logitech, I'm connected to a lot of Silicon Valley types, a lot\n\n935\n00:42:13.100 --> 00:42:14.320\nof startups in the\n\n936\n00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:20.210\nAI space. I'm seeing more and more that are super interesting because they're\n\n937\n00:42:20.210 --> 00:42:22.720\npersonalizing AI\n\n938\n00:42:22.720 --> 00:42:26.960\nor they're making it part of something that I can imagine can enable growth.\n\n939\n00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:27.920\nAnd I don't want\n\n940\n00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:32.770\nto be too tough because then I'll point to a specific startup. But I think that\n\n941\n00:42:32.770 --> 00:42:35.040\n's the next big wave\n\n942\n00:42:35.040 --> 00:42:40.400\nis how do you create new businesses that can improve your life using AI. And I\n\n943\n00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.080\nthink in health\n\n944\n00:42:42.080 --> 00:42:46.790\ncare and just in general, I think there are a lot of spaces. This is a\n\n945\n00:42:46.790 --> 00:42:48.560\nbeginning to happen.\n\n946\n00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:53.700\nYou mentioned earlier on that early on, you really developed a passion for\n\n947\n00:42:53.700 --> 00:42:54.800\nleadership.\n\n948\n00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:58.400\nWhat's something that you know about leadership now that you wish you had known\n\n949\n00:42:58.400 --> 00:42:59.040\nearlier in your\n\n950\n00:42:59.040 --> 00:43:05.570\ncareer? When I accepted the job at Logitech, I went to see a friend of mine who\n\n951\n00:43:05.570 --> 00:43:06.800\nhad been an\n\n952\n00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:11.030\nentrepreneur for about 50 years. And he had sold his company. He was about\n\n953\n00:43:11.030 --> 00:43:12.080\nsales company.\n\n954\n00:43:12.080 --> 00:43:15.140\nAnd so I went to him to ask him what he thought about taking the job at Log\n\n955\n00:43:15.140 --> 00:43:16.320\nitech. And he said,\n\n956\n00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.970\n\"I don't know. I met him for breakfast.\" And he said, \"I don't know if I'd do\n\n957\n00:43:18.970 --> 00:43:19.840\nthat. It\n\n958\n00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:22.880\nlooks like a very difficult thing to turn around to me.\" He goes, \"But I don't\n\n959\n00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:23.440\nknow anything about\n\n960\n00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.960\ntech.\" And I said, \"Okay, well, thanks. You already accepted the job. So\n\n961\n00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:27.840\nprobably a wrong time to\n\n962\n00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:34.520\nask him.\" And then as I got up to leave, he pointed at me and he said, \"Oh, and\n\n963\n00:43:34.520 --> 00:43:35.040\none more thing,\n\n964\n00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:38.510\nBrian.\" I said, \"Yeah, I was like 10 feet from the tail.\" He said, \"You wash\n\n965\n00:43:38.510 --> 00:43:39.280\nthe windows. You\n\n966\n00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:43.800\nclean the floors.\" And so I said, \"Ah, thank you.\" I just smiled and I walked\n\n967\n00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:44.800\nback and I was like,\n\n968\n00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.790\n\"I wonder why?\" He said that. And it took me probably until I got to the bottom\n\n969\n00:43:47.790 --> 00:43:48.880\nof the stairs to start\n\n970\n00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:53.720\nto really think about that. And the longer I lived it, the more I thought, you\n\n971\n00:43:53.720 --> 00:43:54.240\nknow,\n\n972\n00:43:54.240 --> 00:43:59.240\nit's about ownership. It's an entrepreneur giving me that advice. You really\n\n973\n00:43:59.240 --> 00:43:59.920\nown it.\n\n974\n00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:04.320\nI literally, when I walked into Logitech that first day, I decided I'm going to\n\n975\n00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:04.960\nfeel ownership\n\n976\n00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:08.360\nfor everything. I'm going to pick stuff off the floor. I'll clean a window if\n\n977\n00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:09.040\nit's not clean,\n\n978\n00:44:09.040 --> 00:44:12.240\nliterally. And I'll feel ownership for everything because I want to feel like\n\n979\n00:44:12.240 --> 00:44:13.520\nthis is my company,\n\n980\n00:44:13.520 --> 00:44:16.750\njust like I want everybody in this company to feel like this is VF, it's their\n\n981\n00:44:16.750 --> 00:44:17.360\ncompany.\n\n982\n00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:22.710\nSo I wish I internalized that earlier in my career because I think it's such a\n\n983\n00:44:22.710 --> 00:44:23.040\nhealthy\n\n984\n00:44:23.040 --> 00:44:25.850\nway to think. It makes you feel better about it. And it also has a bigger\n\n985\n00:44:25.850 --> 00:44:27.440\nimpact than everybody else.\n\n986\n00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:32.310\nYeah, that's a great story. And, you know, looking back, you know, what's one\n\n987\n00:44:32.310 --> 00:44:34.240\nthing you have come\n\n988\n00:44:34.240 --> 00:44:38.500\nto believe about leadership, maybe that some CEOs might disagree with or is\n\n989\n00:44:38.500 --> 00:44:40.000\nthere anything like that?\n\n990\n00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:43.840\nLook, I won't try to suggest that this is a counter to what other CEOs might\n\n991\n00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:44.560\nbelieve, but\n\n992\n00:44:44.560 --> 00:44:50.480\nthere is a chain of command in large companies. And it's important because it's\n\n993\n00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:51.440\nthe way information\n\n994\n00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:56.790\ngets passed. But I don't really like to even think about it. I just like to\n\n995\n00:44:56.790 --> 00:44:57.760\nthink everybody in the\n\n996\n00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:01.290\ncompany is my partner. Everybody's got a job to do. Whether it's the person who\n\n997\n00:45:01.290 --> 00:45:01.840\nworks at the front\n\n998\n00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:07.760\ndesk when you walk in the store or me. And we all have work to do. And you can\n\n999\n00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:08.720\nhave a dramatic\n\n1000\n00:45:08.720 --> 00:45:13.810\nimpact on the company from whatever share you're in, if you want to, if you're\n\n1001\n00:45:13.810 --> 00:45:15.360\nsmart, and you really\n\n1002\n00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.160\ncare about what the company's doing. And I so believe that. So I like having\n\n1003\n00:45:20.160 --> 00:45:20.800\nconversations\n\n1004\n00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.470\nwith everybody at all levels of the company. I feel much more in touch that way\n\n1005\n00:45:23.470 --> 00:45:24.560\n. I had an old\n\n1006\n00:45:24.560 --> 00:45:27.790\nboss who was a smoker. And he used to say, I know whether we're having a good\n\n1007\n00:45:27.790 --> 00:45:28.400\nquarter or not,\n\n1008\n00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:33.160\nbecause I go into the smoking area and out there if the people in a cash\n\n1009\n00:45:33.160 --> 00:45:34.880\nreceipt board are nervous,\n\n1010\n00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:37.670\nbecause the accounts receivables are getting too high. I know they're selling\n\n1011\n00:45:37.670 --> 00:45:39.680\nso much. And I never\n\n1012\n00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:42.470\nforgot that. I thought, you know, this, it's so true. You know, it's amazing\n\n1013\n00:45:42.470 --> 00:45:43.200\nhow much you pick\n\n1014\n00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:46.360\nup if you talk to people at all levels of the company, not just your director\n\n1015\n00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:46.960\nports or their\n\n1016\n00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.570\ndirector ports. So I really try to do that. That's great. Now, this is a odd\n\n1017\n00:45:51.570 --> 00:45:53.200\nquestion. And so\n\n1018\n00:45:53.200 --> 00:45:58.550\naccepted for that. Okay, I've watched a few of your interviews. Okay, I watched\n\n1019\n00:45:58.550 --> 00:45:59.520\none interview,\n\n1020\n00:45:59.520 --> 00:46:04.020\nyou're dressed in all white. Okay, I mean, I'm looking at you here. You've got\n\n1021\n00:46:04.020 --> 00:46:04.880\nthis, you know,\n\n1022\n00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:12.010\nthis great sweater on, you know, and obviously you are into design. How much do\n\n1023\n00:46:12.010 --> 00:46:12.800\nyou think about\n\n1024\n00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:18.960\nwhat you wear and how you present yourself physically as it relates to driving\n\n1025\n00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:19.840\nwhat you want to\n\n1026\n00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:26.560\ndrive inside the company? You know, this is I'm probably more utilitarian. Yeah\n\n1027\n00:46:26.560 --> 00:46:27.360\n, I always think,\n\n1028\n00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.560\nokay, here's here's how I think about the let's talk about art for a minute,\n\n1029\n00:46:30.560 --> 00:46:31.280\nbecause it's related\n\n1030\n00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:37.880\nto design, right? I have this view that everybody is an artist and you really\n\n1031\n00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:38.800\nare an artist, whether\n\n1032\n00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:41.420\nyou think about it or not, you're which means you're a designer, whether you\n\n1033\n00:46:41.420 --> 00:46:42.720\nthink about it or not.\n\n1034\n00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:47.480\nAnd you're and your primary art is your life. It's all of your life. It's every\n\n1035\n00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:48.240\nday of your life,\n\n1036\n00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:52.640\nevery moment of your life. Now, most of the time in your life, you make\n\n1037\n00:46:52.640 --> 00:46:54.720\nutilitarian decisions. So,\n\n1038\n00:46:54.720 --> 00:47:00.080\nyou wouldn't think of your life as art. So, for example, if you're at a, if you\n\n1039\n00:47:00.080 --> 00:47:00.080\n're at a,\n\n1040\n00:47:00.080 --> 00:47:03.120\nif you're at a restaurant tonight, and you're going to the bathroom, you could\n\n1041\n00:47:03.120 --> 00:47:03.840\njust walk across\n\n1042\n00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:07.640\nthe room to the bathroom like most people do. Now, you could, if you wanted to\n\n1043\n00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:08.240\nsay, no, I'm\n\n1044\n00:47:08.240 --> 00:47:11.270\nactually going to express something. You could dance across or you could walk\n\n1045\n00:47:11.270 --> 00:47:11.840\nacross the room,\n\n1046\n00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.960\nyou could do dance hip hop across that room. There are a lot of things that you\n\n1047\n00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:15.280\ncould take\n\n1048\n00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:18.560\nall your clothes off and do. There are people who do that before it's art. So,\n\n1049\n00:47:18.560 --> 00:47:19.040\nthere's a lot of\n\n1050\n00:47:19.040 --> 00:47:23.440\nthings you could do to make that that striding across that room an expression\n\n1051\n00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:24.240\nof who you are.\n\n1052\n00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:29.530\nAnd so, and yet, most people simply walk across the room and it's utilitarian.\n\n1053\n00:47:29.530 --> 00:47:30.640\nWhen it comes to\n\n1054\n00:47:30.640 --> 00:47:35.820\nwhat I wear to work every day, I am surprisingly utilitarian. Probably because\n\n1055\n00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:36.880\nI've just made a\n\n1056\n00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:41.650\nchoice. That's not where my art will be or my design. I'll put my design\n\n1057\n00:47:41.650 --> 00:47:43.120\nthinking to work.\n\n1058\n00:47:43.120 --> 00:47:46.160\nOnce in a while, I do something special, but usually not.\n\n1059\n00:47:46.160 --> 00:47:50.840\nI love it. You know, this has been so much fun and I want to have some more\n\n1060\n00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:52.320\nwith this lightning\n\n1061\n00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:55.600\nround of questions that I always do. Are you ready for them? I'm ready.\n\n1062\n00:47:55.600 --> 00:48:00.320\nThe three words that best describe you. Basketball, family, design.\n\n1063\n00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:04.480\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be? My kids.\n\n1064\n00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:09.230\nYour biggest pet peeve. Injustice. What city has had the greatest impact on you\n\n1065\n00:48:09.230 --> 00:48:09.440\n?\n\n1066\n00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:17.360\nOwensboro, Kentucky. You've led both tech and fashion brands. Which industry\n\n1067\n00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:18.080\nhas tougher\n\n1068\n00:48:18.080 --> 00:48:22.800\ncritics? I would say fashion. What's something you've been curious about lately\n\n1069\n00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:23.280\nthat has\n\n1070\n00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:28.000\nnothing to do with work? Gravity. What's the one thing you do just for you?\n\n1071\n00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.680\nBasketball. Besides your family, what's your most prized possession?\n\n1072\n00:48:31.680 --> 00:48:35.840\nYou know, I'm really not into possessions. So, I would say use family, though.\n\n1073\n00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:36.400\nSo, I would say\n\n1074\n00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:42.080\nmy friends. If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1075\n00:48:42.080 --> 00:48:45.280\nNPR. What's something about you few people would know?\n\n1076\n00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:47.760\nThat I was exceptionally shy when I was younger.\n\n1077\n00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:50.720\nWhat's one of your daily rituals? Something that you'd never miss?\n\n1078\n00:48:50.720 --> 00:48:54.720\nWorking out. We're out of the lightning round. Now, just a couple more\n\n1079\n00:48:54.720 --> 00:48:55.520\nquestions. We'll wrap\n\n1080\n00:48:55.520 --> 00:49:00.320\nthis up. You mentioned your family. It's your prized possession. What have you\n\n1081\n00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:00.800\nlearned about\n\n1082\n00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:07.390\ndating at home? I think one of the things I love about families is that, you\n\n1083\n00:49:07.390 --> 00:49:07.920\nknow,\n\n1084\n00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.880\nanybody's listening to those young families might not realize this, but your\n\n1085\n00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:12.960\nfamily just becomes\n\n1086\n00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:17.910\ndeeper and richer as you get older and they never stop needing you and you\n\n1087\n00:49:17.910 --> 00:49:18.880\nnever stop needing them.\n\n1088\n00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:23.030\nAnd so, the cool thing is my kids are adults now and I've got a granddaughter\n\n1089\n00:49:23.030 --> 00:49:23.520\nand\n\n1090\n00:49:23.520 --> 00:49:27.760\nmy ex-wife and I are very close. All three of my kids and I are very close. My\n\n1091\n00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.320\nson-in-law and\n\n1092\n00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:32.150\nI are very close. You know, it's just a super good thing and, you know, it\n\n1093\n00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:32.960\nbecomes more and more\n\n1094\n00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:36.520\nimportant to me with time, not less and less. You know, I think everything goes\n\n1095\n00:49:36.520 --> 00:49:37.200\nin cycles,\n\n1096\n00:49:37.200 --> 00:49:40.080\nbut this one just seems to never stop getting more important to me.\n\n1097\n00:49:40.640 --> 00:49:45.940\nWhat do you see as your unfinished business, Bracken, both for VF and you\n\n1098\n00:49:45.940 --> 00:49:46.560\npersonally?\n\n1099\n00:49:46.560 --> 00:49:52.450\nWell, for VF, I want to turn this into a strong, sustainable, long-term, high-\n\n1100\n00:49:52.450 --> 00:49:52.960\ngrowth engine.\n\n1101\n00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:57.360\nAnd I want it to, you know, I want it to humbly be the best company in this\n\n1102\n00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:58.560\nindustry and I think\n\n1103\n00:49:58.560 --> 00:50:03.030\nit can be. For me, as a person, I'll never be finished. You know, I'll never\n\n1104\n00:50:03.030 --> 00:50:04.080\nstop working.\n\n1105\n00:50:04.080 --> 00:50:07.680\nI won't get to work at VF forever, but I'll never stop working. I'll never stop\n\n1106\n00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:11.920\ntrying to learn new things. I'm always, I pick a new topic every\n\n1107\n00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:16.400\nfive years to go deep in and I really read everything I possibly can on it.\n\n1108\n00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:21.040\nSo I'll never stop trying to learn and grow. You know, it's just so inherent to\n\n1109\n00:50:21.040 --> 00:50:22.160\nwhat I'm all about.\n\n1110\n00:50:22.160 --> 00:50:25.360\nAnd I'll never stop trying to be that good point guard who did have the handles\n\n1111\n00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:25.520\n.\n\n1112\n00:50:25.520 --> 00:50:30.560\nWhat's that top of your copy you're going deep on now?\n\n1113\n00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:35.360\nIt's been for the last years I've been going deep on quantum mechanics and\n\n1114\n00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:36.320\ngravity and the\n\n1115\n00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.680\nrelationship between the two and how difficult that is to figure out.\n\n1116\n00:50:39.680 --> 00:50:40.720\nAnd why?\n\n1117\n00:50:40.720 --> 00:50:45.200\nIt's a puzzle. You know, I like puzzles and there's a lot of math in it and I\n\n1118\n00:50:45.200 --> 00:50:45.920\njust\n\n1119\n00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:49.720\nthink it's fascinating. The one before that was art. I really got into art\n\n1120\n00:50:49.720 --> 00:50:51.120\nhistory and then into\n\n1121\n00:50:51.120 --> 00:50:54.520\nwhat makes art and then I started going down that path. So I did art for a\n\n1122\n00:50:54.520 --> 00:50:55.280\nwhile. I did World War II\n\n1123\n00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:58.780\nfor a while. So I just picked these topics kind of just, I'm interested in\n\n1124\n00:50:58.780 --> 00:51:00.160\neverything. So it'd be\n\n1125\n00:51:00.160 --> 00:51:03.250\neasy for me to pick another talk, but I try to stay with it long enough to\n\n1126\n00:51:03.250 --> 00:51:04.480\nwhere I get some mastery.\n\n1127\n00:51:05.120 --> 00:51:09.120\nThat's great. Last question. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone\n\n1128\n00:51:09.120 --> 00:51:09.760\nwho wants to be a\n\n1129\n00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:13.960\nbetter leader? Just focus on growing everything around you, not including\n\n1130\n00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:15.680\nyourself. But if you focus\n\n1131\n00:51:15.680 --> 00:51:20.620\non growing everything, making everything better, everything, every person,\n\n1132\n00:51:20.620 --> 00:51:22.000\nevery process, every\n\n1133\n00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.670\nexperience, if you're just focused all the time and trying to make everything\n\n1134\n00:51:25.670 --> 00:51:26.800\nbetter and growing\n\n1135\n00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:32.320\neverything, you'll deal de facto be a good leader. You'll have to listen more.\n\n1136\n00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:32.800\nYou'll have to have\n\n1137\n00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:38.000\nmore empathy. You'll have to work harder because you want to because it's so\n\n1138\n00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:39.040\nfulfilling when you\n\n1139\n00:51:39.040 --> 00:51:43.520\nmake things better, when you feel like things are growing. Growth is the big,\n\n1140\n00:51:43.520 --> 00:51:44.240\nthe most important\n\n1141\n00:51:44.240 --> 00:51:49.360\nthing in life. I mean, if you think about there's growth and there's death and\n\n1142\n00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:50.720\nyou're either growing\n\n1143\n00:51:50.720 --> 00:51:54.520\nor you're on your right to death. And so you might as well choose growth. And I\n\n1144\n00:51:54.520 --> 00:51:56.320\nthink that as a leader,\n\n1145\n00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:03.120\nit's amazing how inspiring and engaging growth is. You know, Brack and I had\n\n1146\n00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:04.640\nheard a lot about you\n\n1147\n00:52:04.640 --> 00:52:09.120\nbefore we had this conversation. And I knew you were a great leader. I knew you\n\n1148\n00:52:09.120 --> 00:52:09.440\ncame\n\n1149\n00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:13.920\nwith the world and in a fresh way. And I can't tell you how impressed I am with\n\n1150\n00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:15.120\nour conversation\n\n1151\n00:52:15.120 --> 00:52:18.700\nand having the opportunity to meet you's been a real treat. Thank you so much\n\n1152\n00:52:18.700 --> 00:52:20.000\nfor being on this show.\n\n1153\n00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.000\nThank you, David. And we got to get the other day with David Cody. All right.\n\n1154\n00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.480\nHe's got a call together. Yeah. And you guys were both a GE. Oh yeah, I worked\n\n1155\n00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:29.680\nfor Dave. I learned a\n\n1156\n00:52:29.680 --> 00:52:33.480\nton from Dave. I always wanted to ask you this one question and let you go. You\n\n1157\n00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:34.800\nknow, the GE\n\n1158\n00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.700\nwashing machine, I recommended him that you come up with a new washing machine\n\n1159\n00:52:38.700 --> 00:52:39.680\nand you call it the\n\n1160\n00:52:39.680 --> 00:52:45.920\nsock saver. Because it seems like every washing machine, you lose your socks.\n\n1161\n00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:47.520\nAnd I think if you\n\n1162\n00:52:47.520 --> 00:52:50.810\ncould solve that problem, wouldn't wouldn't that be a home run? Well, I think\n\n1163\n00:52:50.810 --> 00:52:51.280\nit could have been\n\n1164\n00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.720\nDavid and I tried that because I ran the washing machine business at GE. But I\n\n1165\n00:52:54.720 --> 00:52:55.760\nfinally abandoned it\n\n1166\n00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:58.880\nand I went to a company that makes socks because I figure if they're losing all\n\n1167\n00:52:58.880 --> 00:52:59.760\nthe socks, we'll sell\n\n1168\n00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:03.520\na lot more. See, you're a smart guy.\n\n1169\n00:53:03.520 --> 00:53:15.360\nDavid, what an interview. Yeah. Oh, fantastic. You know, what's your definition\n\n1170\n00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:17.040\nof design after\n\n1171\n00:53:17.040 --> 00:53:20.440\nhearing that interview? Cool. Well, it's certainly changed after hearing it.\n\n1172\n00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:21.520\nNow I think of design\n\n1173\n00:53:21.520 --> 00:53:27.490\nas anything that revolves around how a consumer engages with your product, not\n\n1174\n00:53:27.490 --> 00:53:28.400\njust the way it looks,\n\n1175\n00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:32.200\nbut how they engage with your people, what it feels like to walk into your\n\n1176\n00:53:32.200 --> 00:53:33.120\nretail store,\n\n1177\n00:53:33.120 --> 00:53:36.400\nwhat it feels like to be on the phone with someone, a customer support. I mean,\n\n1178\n00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:39.800\neverything design touches everything. Yeah. But you know, how does somebody in\n\n1179\n00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:40.480\naccounting think\n\n1180\n00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:44.400\nabout their job as design? Okay. Now you're interviewing me. Yeah. Well, I want\n\n1181\n00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:45.040\nto see if you\n\n1182\n00:53:45.040 --> 00:53:50.320\ntold us. I want to see if you got any info out of that podcast.\n\n1183\n00:53:50.320 --> 00:53:55.130\nOne takeaway that I am pulling from this episode is that, you know, design,\n\n1184\n00:53:55.130 --> 00:53:56.080\nlike I just said, it\n\n1185\n00:53:56.080 --> 00:54:00.220\nreally is the entire experience that anybody has engaging with you or your\n\n1186\n00:54:00.220 --> 00:54:01.840\nbrand. So like for\n\n1187\n00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:06.640\nthe accountant, David, if they can make something more seamless for the person\n\n1188\n00:54:06.640 --> 00:54:07.680\non the other end of\n\n1189\n00:54:07.680 --> 00:54:11.520\nwhat they're delivering, someone asking for a report or auditing their books,\n\n1190\n00:54:11.520 --> 00:54:12.160\nif they can make\n\n1191\n00:54:12.160 --> 00:54:18.090\nthat experience more seamless, then that is how they can apply great design to\n\n1192\n00:54:18.090 --> 00:54:19.520\ntheir process.\n\n1193\n00:54:19.520 --> 00:54:24.080\nAbsolutely. I love that answer and you're right. You know, and I always said at\n\n1194\n00:54:24.080 --> 00:54:25.520\nYumbrads,\n\n1195\n00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:30.010\nif you do your piece of Yum right, it all adds up to a great customer\n\n1196\n00:54:30.010 --> 00:54:31.600\nexperience. So like,\n\n1197\n00:54:31.600 --> 00:54:36.320\nif you can be more productive in supply chain, you save money. We were able to\n\n1198\n00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:37.280\ngive the customer\n\n1199\n00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.950\nwar. And then you do that by having the right design, the right process and\n\n1200\n00:54:40.950 --> 00:54:42.640\ndiscipline to get it done.\n\n1201\n00:54:42.640 --> 00:54:47.880\nYou know, that's how you can be successful. And I just love, you know, how we\n\n1202\n00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:50.000\ntalked about how\n\n1203\n00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:54.720\neverybody can participate in that process of that total customer experience.\n\n1204\n00:54:54.720 --> 00:54:58.560\nTotally. You know, one other thing I really loved that Bracken talked about,\n\n1205\n00:54:58.560 --> 00:54:58.960\nobviously,\n\n1206\n00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:03.520\nhe's very focused on design. But I love the way he thinks about brands.\n\n1207\n00:55:03.520 --> 00:55:04.560\nObviously, VF is the\n\n1208\n00:55:04.560 --> 00:55:09.910\nparent company of several iconic brands. And one thing that really stood out\n\n1209\n00:55:09.910 --> 00:55:10.960\nwith me was when he\n\n1210\n00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:14.440\nsaid, you know, in consumer brands, you don't really own the brand. The\n\n1211\n00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:15.920\ncustomer owns the brand.\n\n1212\n00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:20.320\nAnd you really just contribute to it. David, unpack that for me a little bit\n\n1213\n00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:20.960\nand for the listeners.\n\n1214\n00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:25.520\nWhat does that really look like? Well, you know, the customer owns the brand.\n\n1215\n00:55:25.520 --> 00:55:29.660\nThe customers can really define what the brand is, basis what you do. So, you\n\n1216\n00:55:29.660 --> 00:55:31.120\nknow, the customer\n\n1217\n00:55:31.120 --> 00:55:35.120\nis going to position you the way you really are. If you really have a lot of\n\n1218\n00:55:35.120 --> 00:55:35.840\nsubstance\n\n1219\n00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:41.290\nand you really have something that makes people feel cool when they wear it or,\n\n1220\n00:55:41.290 --> 00:55:42.320\nyou know, makes\n\n1221\n00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:48.210\npeople feel great when they drive it, you know, then, you know, man, you know,\n\n1222\n00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:50.720\nthat only comes from\n\n1223\n00:55:50.720 --> 00:55:56.610\nthe customer telling you how they feel about you. So, the customer really owns\n\n1224\n00:55:56.610 --> 00:55:57.920\nthe whole process.\n\n1225\n00:55:58.640 --> 00:56:01.730\nI love in the episode when he talks about Timberlands, the shoes, he says, you\n\n1226\n00:56:01.730 --> 00:56:01.840\nknow,\n\n1227\n00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:05.840\nhip hop really made Timberland Timberland. They didn't do that. So, I just love\n\n1228\n00:56:05.840 --> 00:56:06.400\nthe fact that\n\n1229\n00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:13.040\nthey are continuing to let the hip hop culture define what Thames really are.\n\n1230\n00:56:13.040 --> 00:56:17.510\nI think one of the great things in marketing and I guess we can call it design\n\n1231\n00:56:17.510 --> 00:56:18.960\nnow is that when\n\n1232\n00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:23.840\nwhen that customer takes over, you know, you don't really have to do much, but\n\n1233\n00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:24.560\njust watch the\n\n1234\n00:56:24.560 --> 00:56:29.040\nmomentum that takes, goes forward. Now, it's hard to get that to begin with and\n\n1235\n00:56:29.040 --> 00:56:30.240\nit only comes from\n\n1236\n00:56:30.240 --> 00:56:34.800\neverybody doing the job. They need to do it. But once it starts the role, I'm\n\n1237\n00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:36.000\ntelling you,\n\n1238\n00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:40.000\nit just grows and it grows and it grows. You know, we struggled at Taco Bell\n\n1239\n00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:41.760\nfor years, but man,\n\n1240\n00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:46.480\nyou know, once we figured out that this was an irreverent brand and that, you\n\n1241\n00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:47.120\nknow, we needed\n\n1242\n00:56:47.120 --> 00:56:51.540\nto have a lot more fun and we need to have products that, you know, really\n\n1243\n00:56:51.540 --> 00:56:52.800\nsolve the customer's\n\n1244\n00:56:53.600 --> 00:57:00.160\nissues that the momentum has just piled on and piled on and piled on and that\n\n1245\n00:57:00.160 --> 00:57:01.040\nbrand is just a\n\n1246\n00:57:01.040 --> 00:57:05.440\nrocket ship and just continues to have leading same store sales growth. So, you\n\n1247\n00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:07.200\nknow, it only\n\n1248\n00:57:07.200 --> 00:57:12.530\ncomes though from a real understanding of the customer and then the customer\n\n1249\n00:57:12.530 --> 00:57:14.080\nloving you and\n\n1250\n00:57:14.080 --> 00:57:17.650\ntalking about you. That's what happened in Timberland is like, hey, the\n\n1251\n00:57:17.650 --> 00:57:19.120\ncustomer, the word of mouth\n\n1252\n00:57:19.120 --> 00:57:23.590\nis what's driving it. When you got people talking to people about how much they\n\n1253\n00:57:23.590 --> 00:57:25.120\nlove your brand and\n\n1254\n00:57:25.120 --> 00:57:29.260\nyou give them so much value with not that much money and, you know, boy, their\n\n1255\n00:57:29.260 --> 00:57:30.080\nproducts are really\n\n1256\n00:57:30.080 --> 00:57:33.580\ncool. Man, I can't believe how good the food is even though it doesn't cost\n\n1257\n00:57:33.580 --> 00:57:34.800\nthat much. I'm telling\n\n1258\n00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:38.640\nyou, that's when you really, really have a great, great thing happening.\n\n1259\n00:57:38.640 --> 00:57:43.470\nI'd love to give the people listening, David, just a real practical way that\n\n1260\n00:57:43.470 --> 00:57:44.080\nthey can\n\n1261\n00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:49.070\nlet their consumers define their brand. So, what's one thing you would say to\n\n1262\n00:57:49.070 --> 00:57:50.320\nfolks if they really\n\n1263\n00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:53.990\ndon't have a grasp on what their brand is or what consumers say it is, what\n\n1264\n00:57:53.990 --> 00:57:55.120\nwould you tell them to\n\n1265\n00:57:55.120 --> 00:57:59.760\ndo? Understand how the customer is defining your brand. You know, understand it\n\n1266\n00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:01.120\n. You know,\n\n1267\n00:58:01.120 --> 00:58:05.010\nunderstand reality. See the world the way how it really is, not the way you\n\n1268\n00:58:05.010 --> 00:58:05.760\nwant it to be.\n\n1269\n00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:11.650\nAnd then start working with the customers. By that, I mean, listening to the\n\n1270\n00:58:11.650 --> 00:58:11.840\ncustomer,\n\n1271\n00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.760\nhearing what they have to say and then start responding to what they have to\n\n1272\n00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:16.400\nsay. And then\n\n1273\n00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:21.580\nsooner or later, they're going to feel the empathy you have for them. And that\n\n1274\n00:58:21.580 --> 00:58:22.400\n's going to drive\n\n1275\n00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:26.400\nperformance. Another thing that is very clear after listening to this interview\n\n1276\n00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:26.960\nwith Bracken is\n\n1277\n00:58:26.960 --> 00:58:30.510\nthat he's really is a master at turning brands around. I mean, he did it with\n\n1278\n00:58:30.510 --> 00:58:31.440\nOld Spice, which I\n\n1279\n00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:37.330\nthink is so iconic. He did it at Logitech. And, you know, with turnaround comes\n\n1280\n00:58:37.330 --> 00:58:39.040\nchange management.\n\n1281\n00:58:39.040 --> 00:58:43.120\nSo for people listening who might be in a place where their company is changing\n\n1282\n00:58:43.120 --> 00:58:43.680\na lot or there\n\n1283\n00:58:43.680 --> 00:58:48.430\nmight be in the midst of a turnaround, how do you as a leader navigate the\n\n1284\n00:58:48.430 --> 00:58:49.840\nfatigue that might come\n\n1285\n00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:54.830\nwith a bunch of changes? Oh, I think, you know, it's that old burning platform\n\n1286\n00:58:54.830 --> 00:58:56.400\nstory. You know,\n\n1287\n00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:02.560\nyou're on the ship. Okay, it's burning down. And the only way you're going to\n\n1288\n00:59:02.560 --> 00:59:03.360\nsurvive is you're\n\n1289\n00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:08.560\ngoing to have to jump into the water. And you got to create a burning platform.\n\n1290\n00:59:08.560 --> 00:59:10.480\nAnd so I think the\n\n1291\n00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:14.700\nway you do that is you paint the reality of what your customers are telling you\n\n1292\n00:59:14.700 --> 00:59:16.000\n. You paint the\n\n1293\n00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:20.660\nreality of the of what your financial situation is telling you. You paint the\n\n1294\n00:59:20.660 --> 00:59:21.840\nreality of how your\n\n1295\n00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:27.730\nemployees are thinking about you. But it all comes down to defining reality.\n\n1296\n00:59:27.730 --> 00:59:29.040\nAnd you got to\n\n1297\n00:59:29.040 --> 00:59:33.620\ncreate in a turnaround situation, you got to create a burning platform. It\n\n1298\n00:59:33.620 --> 00:59:35.040\nreminds me, I feel like\n\n1299\n00:59:35.040 --> 00:59:39.180\nI always think about your interview with Alan Mulally. But he, you know, when\n\n1300\n00:59:39.180 --> 00:59:40.000\nhe first got to\n\n1301\n00:59:40.000 --> 00:59:45.890\nFord, they're about to post a $17 billion loss. And he went into one of their\n\n1302\n00:59:45.890 --> 00:59:47.280\nmeetings with his\n\n1303\n00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:51.680\nleaders. And no one really talked about anything that was going wrong. So he\n\n1304\n00:59:51.680 --> 00:59:53.520\nmade it a point to\n\n1305\n00:59:53.520 --> 00:59:57.180\ncelebrate when leaders came to meetings, reporting on things that were going\n\n1306\n00:59:57.180 --> 00:59:58.160\nwrong or things that\n\n1307\n00:59:58.160 --> 01:00:02.940\nneeded fixing, because they had gotten to that point, because no one had to\n\n1308\n01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:03.840\nfind reality.\n\n1309\n01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:08.870\nTherefore, no one was operating within it. Yeah, absolutely. And he knew the\n\n1310\n01:00:08.870 --> 01:00:09.920\nonly way,\n\n1311\n01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:13.360\nthe only way he's going to turn that business around was to get people to\n\n1312\n01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:14.560\nunderstand the reality.\n\n1313\n01:00:14.560 --> 01:00:18.880\nHey, we just lost $17 billion. How can everybody be in here,\n\n1314\n01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:25.410\npresenting their project and telling me it's a green? How can we have 100%\n\n1315\n01:00:25.410 --> 01:00:26.240\ngreens when we just\n\n1316\n01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:32.400\nlost $17 billion? What kind of fool do you think I am? I wasn't born yesterday.\n\n1317\n01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:33.280\nI'm from Kansas.\n\n1318\n01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:38.310\nI'm a Jayhawk fan. That's Alan Mulally. I mean, he's the common sense guy. And\n\n1319\n01:00:38.310 --> 01:00:39.040\nhe just told it\n\n1320\n01:00:39.040 --> 01:00:44.320\nlike it is, but he constantly got people to understand what the reality was.\n\n1321\n01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:44.800\nAnd then,\n\n1322\n01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:48.880\nmore importantly, do something about it. David, one more question here to wrap\n\n1323\n01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:49.680\nup our debrief.\n\n1324\n01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:53.290\nAnd this will really speak to like the CEO type of leader who might be\n\n1325\n01:00:53.290 --> 01:00:53.920\nlistening.\n\n1326\n01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.360\nAnd the episode with Bracken, he talks about the importance of recognition, of\n\n1327\n01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:58.160\ncourse,\n\n1328\n01:00:58.160 --> 01:01:02.880\nand how no one ever recognizes people enough. So he tries to incorporate it\n\n1329\n01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:04.160\ninto his every day.\n\n1330\n01:01:04.160 --> 01:01:06.800\nHe says that, you know, when really great things happen, you recognize the\n\n1331\n01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:07.440\nfolks that do it. But\n\n1332\n01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:13.620\nwhen really bad things happen, it's the job of the CEO to take responsibility\n\n1333\n01:01:13.620 --> 01:01:14.480\nfor it,\n\n1334\n01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:18.480\neven if it's not your fault. So I'm curious from your perspective, as a CEO,\n\n1335\n01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:19.440\nhow do you get\n\n1336\n01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:23.120\ncomfortable with being the person who always takes credit for the failure?\n\n1337\n01:01:23.120 --> 01:01:28.320\nBecause it's your show. You're the leader. And if it's happening on your dime,\n\n1338\n01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:31.920\nthere's something you could have done differently to make sure it wouldn't have\n\n1339\n01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:33.120\nhappened. That's\n\n1340\n01:01:33.120 --> 01:01:36.920\nthe mindset you have to have. And it's climbing all the way up that\n\n1341\n01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:38.560\naccountability ladder.\n\n1342\n01:01:38.560 --> 01:01:43.600\nYou don't blame others. When you're at the bottom of the accountability ladder,\n\n1343\n01:01:43.600 --> 01:01:48.630\nyou blame others and come up with excuses. When you're at the top, you get on\n\n1344\n01:01:48.630 --> 01:01:49.120\nwith it,\n\n1345\n01:01:49.120 --> 01:01:56.290\nand you accept the challenge, and you take accountability for it and say, now\n\n1346\n01:01:56.290 --> 01:01:57.200\nwe've got to move on.\n\n1347\n01:01:57.200 --> 01:02:03.270\nBut, you know, I think that's so important. And once people know that you own\n\n1348\n01:02:03.270 --> 01:02:04.080\nthe joint,\n\n1349\n01:02:04.080 --> 01:02:07.880\nyou act like you own the joint, I don't care whether you're a frontline\n\n1350\n01:02:07.880 --> 01:02:08.400\nemployee,\n\n1351\n01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:12.800\nor you're the CEO, if you act like you own the joint, that means you take\n\n1352\n01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:13.840\naccountability for\n\n1353\n01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:18.640\nanything that happens on your dime. I love it. Well, Bracken certainly has done\n\n1354\n01:02:18.640 --> 01:02:19.440\nthat. And\n\n1355\n01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:24.560\nit's a big reason why he's been so successful throughout his career. And, you\n\n1356\n01:02:24.560 --> 01:02:24.960\nknow, he's only\n\n1357\n01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:29.150\nbeen at VF for a couple of years, two years, I think. But with him at the helm,\n\n1358\n01:02:29.150 --> 01:02:29.920\nI have no doubt\n\n1359\n01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:34.070\nthat they're just going to continue to rise. And it's getting colder outside,\n\n1360\n01:02:34.070 --> 01:02:34.880\nwhich means it's\n\n1361\n01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:39.760\ntime to put on my North Face puffer jacket, which I just feel like has been\n\n1362\n01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:40.960\nsuch a staple in the\n\n1363\n01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:46.310\nclosets of people everywhere for years. Well, that puffer jacket, you know, we\n\n1364\n01:02:46.310 --> 01:02:46.720\ntalked to\n\n1365\n01:02:46.720 --> 01:02:49.970\nabout that people need to, you know, I hope they picked up the insight there\n\n1366\n01:02:49.970 --> 01:02:51.120\ntoo, is that, you know,\n\n1367\n01:02:51.120 --> 01:02:55.170\nthat's what people want to wear. They found out how to do it in the North Face\n\n1368\n01:02:55.170 --> 01:02:56.320\nbrand. And, you know,\n\n1369\n01:02:56.320 --> 01:02:59.620\nit fits within their character because of the way how they designed it. And by\n\n1370\n01:02:59.620 --> 01:03:00.400\nthe way, speaking\n\n1371\n01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:05.390\nof design, I've interviewed a lot of leaders. This guy, he's one of the coolest\n\n1372\n01:03:05.390 --> 01:03:06.320\ndressers I've\n\n1373\n01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:11.520\nseen on video, and he says he doesn't think about it. But that's just because\n\n1374\n01:03:11.520 --> 01:03:12.640\nhe's naturally cool.\n\n1375\n01:03:12.640 --> 01:03:17.040\nI like the guy a lot. He's super. I do too. I do too. I do too. Well, David,\n\n1376\n01:03:17.040 --> 01:03:20.560\nthat does it for our episode of how leaders lead for today. Thank you so much\n\n1377\n01:03:20.560 --> 01:03:21.360\nfor joining us.\n\n1378\n01:03:21.360 --> 01:03:22.880\nAnd we'll see you next week.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL5457596835.mp3","dx_media_id",2558,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2025-11-06","itunes_episode_id",264,"youtube_id","0yNtFavhMwg","2025-11-06T18:05:51.000000Z","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/FqaWQVQTURS0GWaFgIwLMRoOcdkjYyF6hWK9T8D8.mp3","dx_filename","FqaWQVQTURS0GWaFgIwLMRoOcdkjYyF6hWK9T8D8.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","2diMAb9vmlRmKcwk7MA5TMlfxVBv4UNz8h5xwI1tNew","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/2558.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",3805076,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/0yNtFavhMwg/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_95":79,"_96":77,"_97":-5,"_31":81,"_33":98,"_99":-5,"_100":83,"_86":87,"_101":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","lSGCtUjGCLCr85pHzshjTv6Cz8nCW00lBzu00FfjjI4R4","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Bracken","last_name","Darrell","job_title","VF Corporation, CEO","Bracken Darrel, CEO, VF Corporation, fashion","external_links","https://www.linkedin.com/in/bracken-darrell-81ba255",0,"image_media_id",2539,2540,"2026-07-20T20:40:43.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/futyFiMofzf7EbhUa8gnQodIqFXbCyN5do8Ftbj2.jpg","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/wu3V8M9yHqk7HBNV7ZCdWOmjP52TOgCA9MGcJDWZ.jpg","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/252/bracken-darrell","industry_id",4,"industry",{"_13":122,"_133":134,"_135":137},"industries",[132],"image_media",{"_13":113,"_95":131,"_96":118,"_97":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_99":-5,"_100":-5,"_86":-5,"_101":-5},{"_13":114,"_95":130,"_96":119,"_97":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_99":-5,"_100":-5,"_86":-5,"_101":-5},"wu3V8M9yHqk7HBNV7ZCdWOmjP52TOgCA9MGcJDWZ.jpg","futyFiMofzf7EbhUa8gnQodIqFXbCyN5do8Ftbj2.jpg",{"_13":122,"_133":134,"_135":136},"name","Retail and E-commerce","pivot",{"_35":36,"_121":122},{"_35":36,"_121":122},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_146":147,"_148":149,"_150":151,"_152":153,"_154":155},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]