[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3281/for-smart-strategy-work-from-the-outside-in","id",3281,"title","For smart strategy, work from the outside in","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.440\ncustomers, competitors, costs, capabilities.\n\n2\n00:00:03.440 --> 00:00:08.420\nBut it's really natural for any organization to start with where they exist\n\n3\n00:00:08.420 --> 00:00:08.920\ntoday.\n\n4\n00:00:08.920 --> 00:00:10.520\nLike how do we do last year?\n\n5\n00:00:10.520 --> 00:00:14.760\nOh, let's see if we can do 10% better next year than we did last year.\n\n6\n00:00:14.760 --> 00:00:18.530\nAnd if that's your reference point, often you miss the changes that are\n\n7\n00:00:18.530 --> 00:00:19.200\noccurring in\n\n8\n00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:23.880\na very dynamic market, and I don't care what industry you're in, David, and in\n\n9\n00:00:23.880 --> 00:00:24.160\ncollege\n\n10\n00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:28.980\nathletics being near the top of the list, there's disruptive change happening\n\n11\n00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:29.640\nin almost\n\n12\n00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:36.220\nevery external landscape, every industry landscape, country, company landscape\n\n13\n00:00:36.220 --> 00:00:36.360\nand\n\n14\n00:00:36.360 --> 00:00:39.360\ncountry landscape, now that I mention it.\n\n15\n00:00:39.360 --> 00:00:45.080\nAnd so starting with a real sharp outside in of what's going on?\n\n16\n00:00:45.080 --> 00:00:46.680\nWhat are the structural forces?\n\n17\n00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:49.120\nWhat are the situational dynamics?\n\n18\n00:00:49.120 --> 00:00:53.840\nWhat are the competing firms, both historical and new competing firms doing?\n\n19\n00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:58.120\nWhat do customers or employees saying?\n\n20\n00:00:58.120 --> 00:01:02.540\nThat outside in point of view, I think, has to be the starting point of all\n\n21\n00:01:02.540 --> 00:01:03.440\ngood strategy\n\n22\n00:01:03.440 --> 00:01:04.440\ncertainly.\n\n23\n00:01:04.440 --> 00:01:11.020\nAnd I think it also allows a higher degree of agility because so much of\n\n24\n00:01:11.020 --> 00:01:12.120\noperating today\n\n25\n00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:14.520\nis operating with agility.\n\n26\n00:01:14.520 --> 00:01:19.010\nAnd if your focus is on the external, you can see things happening and coming\n\n27\n00:01:19.010 --> 00:01:19.440\nso you\n\n28\n00:01:19.440 --> 00:01:25.550\ncan adjust versus just sticking to some plan that you created six months ago\n\n29\n00:01:25.550 --> 00:01:26.480\nthat may be\n\n30\n00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.940\nbe less relevant today than it was six months ago.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",374000,"end_time",464679,"keywords","Strategy, bain, external focus, disruption, change, agility","slug","for-smart-strategy-work-from-the-outside-in","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","5zrQ008pLrLKVj7QEOFNh6KnTt4SY8DV4ey2yI00GrZQg","mux_asset_id","KS5GdNCRg8VoovxT8IkPYdwLyzUJP64t02jBhGN4I25c","leader_id",273,"episode_id",424,"updated_at","2026-04-09T15:24:32.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3281/for-smart-strategy-work-from-the-outside-in","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Create strategy from the outside in","create-strategy-from-the-outside-in","Don't build your business around beating internal benchmarks. Instead, look outside first – to customers, competitors, and market forces – and strategize with that in mind. That's the 'outside in' approach that will help you build a smarter, more adaptable strategy.","summary","

Most organizations look inward when they build strategy. How did we do last year? Can we do 10% better this year?

But that internal focus makes you miss the big changes happening in your market.

When it comes to disruptive change, John Donahoe has seen it all — as the CEO of Nike, eBay, and ServiceNow. Today, he’s navigating the seismic changes in college sports as Athletic Director at Stanford.

In this conversation, he’ll unpack how to navigate big changes with smart strategy and servant-minded leadership. Plus, he gets vulnerable about the mistakes he made at Nike and the 10-minute ritual he starts every morning with.

You’ll also learn:

How to create strategy from the outside in
A powerful way to reframe AI (hint: it’s not about AI)
The mindset shift that helps you see adversity as opportunity
The leadership lessons he learned from Colin Powell and Coach K

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.840\n- Hello friends, and welcome to another episode\n\n2\n00:00:02.840 --> 00:00:05.240\nof How Leaders Lead with David Novak.\n\n3\n00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:07.440\nToday, we have John Donahoe on the show.\n\n4\n00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:10.280\nAnd when it comes to disruptive change,\n\n5\n00:00:10.280 --> 00:00:12.000\nJohn Donahoe really has seen it all.\n\n6\n00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:16.160\nHe served as a CEO of Nike, of eBay, and of service now.\n\n7\n00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:19.040\nAnd today, he's navigating the crazy changes\n\n8\n00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:21.480\nin college sports as the athletic director\n\n9\n00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:23.480\nat Stanford University.\n\n10\n00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:25.000\nIn today's conversation, you'll learn\n\n11\n00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:27.520\nhow John navigates big changes with a strategy\n\n12\n00:00:27.520 --> 00:00:31.360\nthat focuses on what he calls outside in thinking.\n\n13\n00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:33.120\nYou'll also hear him share vulnerably\n\n14\n00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:35.520\nabout some of the mistakes that he made at Nike\n\n15\n00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:38.360\nand about the mindset shift that has helped him frame\n\n16\n00:00:38.360 --> 00:00:41.360\nadversity into opportunity.\n\n17\n00:00:41.360 --> 00:00:43.560\nEnjoy this conversation with David and John,\n\n18\n00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:46.160\nand I'll see you at the very end of the episode\n\n19\n00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:47.200\nfor the debrief.\n\n20\n00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:54.520\n- John, I gotta tell you, you've got one\n\n21\n00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:56.920\nof the best golf swings I have ever seen.\n\n22\n00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:58.880\nHave you been able to translate\n\n23\n00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.200\nthat beautiful long backswing flowing rhythm\n\n24\n00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:04.360\nthat you have into a good score lately?\n\n25\n00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:07.800\n- The good news, David, is that my experience in golf\n\n26\n00:01:07.800 --> 00:01:10.320\ndoesn't resemble my experience in business.\n\n27\n00:01:10.320 --> 00:01:13.560\nI had a caddy about 10 years ago say to me\n\n28\n00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:16.320\non the 14th hole at San Francisco.\n\n29\n00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:18.960\nHe said, \"Hey, John, can I be honest with you?\"\n\n30\n00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:21.240\nAnd I said, \"Sure, Billy, what's up?\"\n\n31\n00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:23.600\nHe said, \"John, you have a beautiful golf swing,\n\n32\n00:01:23.600 --> 00:01:26.160\nbut I have never seen anyone get less out\n\n33\n00:01:26.160 --> 00:01:27.760\nof a golf swing than you do.\"\n\n34\n00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:31.120\nAnd I'm like, \"Billy, you know my game.\n\n35\n00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.560\nI'm gonna get the business rather than golf.\"\n\n36\n00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:36.040\n- Well, I doubt if you're getting a whole lot of time\n\n37\n00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.720\nto play golf, given the fact that when I was\n\n38\n00:01:39.720 --> 00:01:40.960\njust doing a little bit of research,\n\n39\n00:01:40.960 --> 00:01:44.560\nyou've gotta be more of a viewer than doer.\n\n40\n00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.680\nStanford has, I believe, 36 athletic programs.\n\n41\n00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:51.720\nThe average for a university is 22.\n\n42\n00:01:51.720 --> 00:01:52.560\nThat's amazing.\n\n43\n00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:55.280\nAnd I gotta imagine you're watching more sports now\n\n44\n00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:57.920\nthan you ever have in your life.\n\n45\n00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:59.240\nIs that true?\n\n46\n00:01:59.240 --> 00:02:01.040\n- Absolutely, it's been true.\n\n47\n00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:04.220\nAnd it's been, David, it's been totally fun.\n\n48\n00:02:04.220 --> 00:02:08.000\nI've been to, I mean, in the last two weeks,\n\n49\n00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.440\nI've been to lacrosse games, wrestling matches,\n\n50\n00:02:10.440 --> 00:02:12.640\nmen's gymnastics, women's gymnastics,\n\n51\n00:02:12.640 --> 00:02:14.500\nobviously men and women's basketball,\n\n52\n00:02:14.500 --> 00:02:20.840\nmen's volleyball, softball, baseball.\n\n53\n00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.520\nAnd so these, we got over 900 student athletes\n\n54\n00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:27.240\nand these 36 sports, and each one's a delight to watch,\n\n55\n00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:29.320\n'cause there's nothing like college athletics.\n\n56\n00:02:29.320 --> 00:02:34.320\nIt's just a realness to it that makes it fun.\n\n57\n00:02:34.320 --> 00:02:38.120\n- And Stanford is the mecca for Olympic athletes.\n\n58\n00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.520\nAnd has there been a sport that you've really grown to love\n\n59\n00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:44.000\nthat you didn't know much about\n\n60\n00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.400\nbefore you took the job, John?\n\n61\n00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:46.560\n- Well, it's fun.\n\n62\n00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:50.960\nAs you said, it's Stanford would have been a country\n\n63\n00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:52.840\nat the Paris Olympics.\n\n64\n00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:55.360\nStanford would have been the eighth largest country\n\n65\n00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.000\nin terms of medal count.\n\n66\n00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:57.840\n(laughing)\n\n67\n00:02:57.840 --> 00:02:58.960\n- That's amazing.\n\n68\n00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.320\n- And so gymnastics, I'll just take that.\n\n69\n00:03:01.320 --> 00:03:03.320\nBoth men's and women's gymnastics\n\n70\n00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:07.160\nwhere we had medal winners in Paris.\n\n71\n00:03:07.160 --> 00:03:09.720\nIt's, we had a gymnastics meet here\n\n72\n00:03:09.720 --> 00:03:13.440\nin our basketball arena against UCLA on Sunday.\n\n73\n00:03:13.440 --> 00:03:14.800\nAnd it was full.\n\n74\n00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:15.920\nIt was the largest crowd.\n\n75\n00:03:15.920 --> 00:03:17.320\nA bigger crowd is Duke.\n\n76\n00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:20.800\nStanford basketball was in Stanford, UCLA,\n\n77\n00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:22.560\nwomen's gymnastics.\n\n78\n00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.440\nAnd the watching these athletes and the gymnasts,\n\n79\n00:03:26.440 --> 00:03:29.280\nit's basketball, you're on a team, right?\n\n80\n00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:30.600\nYou make a mistake.\n\n81\n00:03:30.600 --> 00:03:32.080\nYour teammates cover for you.\n\n82\n00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.760\nYou go back up the court and the next time,\n\n83\n00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:37.480\nyou're on the balance beam, you make a mistake.\n\n84\n00:03:37.480 --> 00:03:39.440\n- Everyone, and it's unforgiving\n\n85\n00:03:39.440 --> 00:03:40.640\nor you're on the floor routine.\n\n86\n00:03:40.640 --> 00:03:42.560\nAnd so I'm just picking that maybe\n\n87\n00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:43.760\nbecause it's the most recent,\n\n88\n00:03:43.760 --> 00:03:45.520\nbut women's gymnastics and the same thing\n\n89\n00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.520\nwith men's gymnastics has been so fun to watch.\n\n90\n00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:50.760\n- Yeah, those guys are absolutely so strong.\n\n91\n00:03:50.760 --> 00:03:52.080\nIt's incredible.\n\n92\n00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.160\nYou're the first big time CEO that I know of\n\n93\n00:03:55.160 --> 00:03:56.920\nthat's become an athletic director\n\n94\n00:03:56.920 --> 00:03:59.360\nof a major college sports program.\n\n95\n00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.360\nYou were the CEO at Bain, eBay, ServiceNow, Nike.\n\n96\n00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:09.800\nOn the surface, you'd think that maybe the Nike job\n\n97\n00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:12.640\nprepared you the most for the role, but I'm curious.\n\n98\n00:04:12.640 --> 00:04:15.960\nWhen you look back, what CEO job have you had\n\n99\n00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:17.880\nthat really taught you the most\n\n100\n00:04:17.880 --> 00:04:22.360\nthat is helping you as you move into this role\n\n101\n00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:23.760\nand start to make your mark?\n\n102\n00:04:23.760 --> 00:04:26.880\n- Well, David, I'll pull that camera lens back\n\n103\n00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:30.760\na little bit and I'll say, not just this role,\n\n104\n00:04:30.760 --> 00:04:32.280\nbut all the following roles.\n\n105\n00:04:32.280 --> 00:04:33.960\nI learned so much at Bain.\n\n106\n00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:38.960\nI feel so fortunate to have started my career there.\n\n107\n00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:42.880\nBecause what Bain taught me was the power\n\n108\n00:04:42.880 --> 00:04:45.200\nof asking good questions.\n\n109\n00:04:45.200 --> 00:04:47.760\n'Cause you're never the expert on day one.\n\n110\n00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:50.040\nThere's not a single situation you're walking in\n\n111\n00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:53.400\nto where you know more than the other people.\n\n112\n00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:55.960\nAnd so the power of being curious,\n\n113\n00:04:55.960 --> 00:04:58.440\nthe power of asking good questions,\n\n114\n00:04:58.440 --> 00:05:03.000\nthe power of seeing situations from a 360 point of view,\n\n115\n00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.400\na holistic or an integrative point of view,\n\n116\n00:05:05.400 --> 00:05:07.000\njust a functional point of view.\n\n117\n00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:12.760\nI learned that at Bain and I think that's been,\n\n118\n00:05:12.760 --> 00:05:14.400\nit served me really well.\n\n119\n00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:16.840\nI would say the other thing that I learned at Bain,\n\n120\n00:05:16.840 --> 00:05:20.000\nyou know, in business, getting the right answers\n\n121\n00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.080\noften only 20% of it.\n\n122\n00:05:22.080 --> 00:05:25.880\nIt's how do you get people to understand,\n\n123\n00:05:25.880 --> 00:05:30.560\nalign, buy in, work together to execute?\n\n124\n00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.520\nAnd so I feel like so much of leadership is,\n\n125\n00:05:34.520 --> 00:05:36.080\nhow do we get to the right answers?\n\n126\n00:05:36.080 --> 00:05:38.840\nBut how do we get to the right answers in a way\n\n127\n00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:43.280\nthat the team that needs to execute and make things happen\n\n128\n00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:46.280\nfeel motivated, aligned and excited to do so?\n\n129\n00:05:46.280 --> 00:05:50.400\nAnd I feel like Bain really helped me break down problems\n\n130\n00:05:50.400 --> 00:05:53.000\nwhere you don't get overly focused on only\n\n131\n00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.080\nwhat's the right answer,\n\n132\n00:05:54.080 --> 00:05:56.480\nbut also the human dimension is essential.\n\n133\n00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:58.920\n- You also have talked about in the past,\n\n134\n00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:02.800\nwe have discussions about what you call the outside\n\n135\n00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:05.320\nin perspective that you picked up at Bain.\n\n136\n00:06:05.320 --> 00:06:06.440\nTalk a little bit about that,\n\n137\n00:06:06.440 --> 00:06:08.320\nbecause every leader needs to develop that,\n\n138\n00:06:08.320 --> 00:06:10.400\nwhether they work in a consulting firm or not.\n\n139\n00:06:10.400 --> 00:06:12.200\n- Well, that's, we used to always say,\n\n140\n00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:14.040\nyou always got to start outside in, right?\n\n141\n00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:15.520\nYou always got to start back then,\n\n142\n00:06:15.520 --> 00:06:19.240\nit was customers, competitors, costs, capabilities.\n\n143\n00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.480\nBut it's really natural for any organization\n\n144\n00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:24.720\nto start with where they exist today.\n\n145\n00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:26.440\nLike, how do we do last year?\n\n146\n00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:29.200\nOh, let's see if we can do 10% better next year\n\n147\n00:06:29.200 --> 00:06:30.600\nthan we did last year.\n\n148\n00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:32.120\nAnd if that's your reference point,\n\n149\n00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.080\noften you miss the changes that are occurring\n\n150\n00:06:35.080 --> 00:06:37.680\nin a very dynamic market.\n\n151\n00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:39.560\nAnd I don't care what industry you're in, David.\n\n152\n00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.960\nAnd in college athletics being near the top of the list,\n\n153\n00:06:42.960 --> 00:06:45.080\nthere's disruptive change happening\n\n154\n00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:48.960\nin almost every external landscape,\n\n155\n00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:52.160\nevery industry landscape country, company landscape\n\n156\n00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:55.200\nand country landscape, now that I mention it.\n\n157\n00:06:55.200 --> 00:06:59.080\nAnd so starting with a real sharp outside in\n\n158\n00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:02.480\nof what's going on, what are the structural forces,\n\n159\n00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:04.880\nwhat are the situational dynamics,\n\n160\n00:07:04.880 --> 00:07:06.720\nwhat are the competing firms,\n\n161\n00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.600\nboth historical and new competing firms doing,\n\n162\n00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:13.920\nwhat are customers or employees saying?\n\n163\n00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:15.120\nThat outside in point of view,\n\n164\n00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.760\nI think has to be the starting point\n\n165\n00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:19.960\nof all good strategy, certainly.\n\n166\n00:07:19.960 --> 00:07:24.960\nAnd I think it also allows a higher degree of agility\n\n167\n00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:28.280\nbecause so much of operating today\n\n168\n00:07:28.280 --> 00:07:30.360\nis operating with agility.\n\n169\n00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.640\nAnd if your focus is on the external,\n\n170\n00:07:32.640 --> 00:07:35.080\nyou can see things happening and coming\n\n171\n00:07:35.080 --> 00:07:38.640\nso you can adjust versus just sticking to some plan\n\n172\n00:07:38.640 --> 00:07:40.000\nthat you created six months ago\n\n173\n00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:45.200\nthat may be less relevant today than it was six months ago.\n\n174\n00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:47.680\n- You know, I know you'd never make a career move\n\n175\n00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.960\nif you really didn't give a lot of thought,\n\n176\n00:07:49.960 --> 00:07:52.760\na lot of thought and a lot of consideration.\n\n177\n00:07:52.760 --> 00:07:56.440\nBut when you looked at the Stanford opportunity,\n\n178\n00:07:56.440 --> 00:07:59.240\nwhat was your outside in perspective there?\n\n179\n00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:00.960\nBefore you really knew all the skinny\n\n180\n00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:02.520\nthat I'm sure you know now,\n\n181\n00:08:02.520 --> 00:08:05.360\nbut how did you look at that opportunity\n\n182\n00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:07.280\nand what enticed you to go?\n\n183\n00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:10.440\n- Well, David, it was a funny circumstance\n\n184\n00:08:10.440 --> 00:08:12.960\nand there were really, I'd say two parts to it.\n\n185\n00:08:12.960 --> 00:08:17.960\nSo in September of 2025, I retired from Nike,\n\n186\n00:08:17.960 --> 00:08:22.920\nI was 65, I moved back to the Bay Area,\n\n187\n00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:24.840\nmy wife had been in the Biden administration,\n\n188\n00:08:24.840 --> 00:08:27.240\nshe had been living in DC, she moved back\n\n189\n00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.040\nand we said, right, we're ready for the next stage of life.\n\n190\n00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:33.360\nWe have four kids, six grandkids, all local.\n\n191\n00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:36.160\nWe both wanted to be really active\n\n192\n00:08:36.160 --> 00:08:37.440\nin the next stage of our careers,\n\n193\n00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.880\nbut we thought we were done with full-time roles.\n\n194\n00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:42.240\nAnd one of the things I thought about doing\n\n195\n00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.600\nwas teaching at Stanford Business School\n\n196\n00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:46.480\nand I reached out to Tara Vandevere,\n\n197\n00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:49.240\nsaid, hey, Tara, she's always been one of my heroes\n\n198\n00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:51.720\nas a head coach and the winningest coach\n\n199\n00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.440\nin college athletic history.\n\n200\n00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.080\nSo Tara, let's teach a class together\n\n201\n00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.680\non leadership and lessons from sports.\n\n202\n00:08:57.680 --> 00:08:59.200\nAnd I draw from my Nike example,\n\n203\n00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:01.880\nshe draw from her 40-year coaching career.\n\n204\n00:09:01.880 --> 00:09:05.160\nAnd then last summer, out of the blue,\n\n205\n00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:06.360\nI get a call from Tara.\n\n206\n00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:11.160\nAnd Tara says, hey, John, you may not be aware,\n\n207\n00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:13.680\nbut we've just been doing this athletic director search\n\n208\n00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:16.160\nand we've got some candidates.\n\n209\n00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:18.560\nBut as we sit down and look at it,\n\n210\n00:09:18.560 --> 00:09:20.920\nthe truth is college athletics is going through\n\n211\n00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:23.160\na period of intense disruption\n\n212\n00:09:23.160 --> 00:09:25.400\nand it's not clear where it's gonna land.\n\n213\n00:09:25.400 --> 00:09:27.720\nSo we don't really know what skills you need\n\n214\n00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:31.040\nthe next athletic director to have.\n\n215\n00:09:31.040 --> 00:09:32.960\nAnd Stanford, to be honest, got caught a little bit\n\n216\n00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:35.360\non our heels when this disruption happened.\n\n217\n00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:36.840\nAnd we ended up in the ACC\n\n218\n00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:39.360\nand we've been a little bit on our heels\n\n219\n00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.880\nand we really need someone to come in\n\n220\n00:09:43.880 --> 00:09:46.040\nand help us navigate through the next couple of years\n\n221\n00:09:46.040 --> 00:09:47.520\nand get back on our front foot,\n\n222\n00:09:47.520 --> 00:09:49.560\nwhich you'd be willing to do that.\n\n223\n00:09:49.560 --> 00:09:51.640\nAnd I said, Tara, I'm flattered, thank you.\n\n224\n00:09:51.640 --> 00:09:54.120\nI've just spent this intensive internal experience\n\n225\n00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:55.800\nthe last nine months.\n\n226\n00:09:55.800 --> 00:09:58.160\nI'm not gonna do another full-time role,\n\n227\n00:09:58.160 --> 00:10:00.400\nbut I'd be happy to help.\n\n228\n00:10:00.400 --> 00:10:02.040\nAnd Tara says, you know, John,\n\n229\n00:10:02.040 --> 00:10:04.160\nwe were gonna teach this class at Stanford together\n\n230\n00:10:04.160 --> 00:10:05.000\nabout leadership.\n\n231\n00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:06.760\nDidn't you tell me, what was your phrase\n\n232\n00:10:06.760 --> 00:10:09.800\nthat you really like were a disciple of servant leadership?\n\n233\n00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:10.880\nDid I get that right?\n\n234\n00:10:10.880 --> 00:10:12.180\nI said, yeah, Tara, I've always loved\n\n235\n00:10:12.180 --> 00:10:13.680\nservant leadership.\n\n236\n00:10:13.680 --> 00:10:17.600\nTara says, are you telling me you don't wanna serve Stanford?\n\n237\n00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:22.480\nI'm like, oh, Tara, oh, now I know how you recruit.\n\n238\n00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.080\nNow I know how you recruited all those NCAA Championship teams.\n\n239\n00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:27.760\nAnd David, that was the first,\n\n240\n00:10:27.760 --> 00:10:31.400\nthe minute I viewed it as, oh, this is service.\n\n241\n00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:34.120\nThis is service to a university I love.\n\n242\n00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:35.920\nI love college sports and think they play\n\n243\n00:10:35.920 --> 00:10:37.560\nin a central role in our society.\n\n244\n00:10:37.560 --> 00:10:40.840\nSo service to trying to help propagate\n\n245\n00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:42.480\na better future for college sports.\n\n246\n00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:45.520\nAnd so that was the first part of just seeing\n\n247\n00:10:45.520 --> 00:10:47.120\nthe why I wanted to do it.\n\n248\n00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:49.360\nAnd then learning outside in around what's going on\n\n249\n00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:52.560\nand the disruption of college athletics,\n\n250\n00:10:52.560 --> 00:10:55.040\nit just struck me, I've spent most of my careers\n\n251\n00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:56.760\nin disruptive industries,\n\n252\n00:10:56.760 --> 00:10:58.800\njust structured circumstances.\n\n253\n00:10:58.800 --> 00:11:00.680\nAnd that's what college athletics is right now.\n\n254\n00:11:00.680 --> 00:11:01.960\nYou had a prevailing set of rules\n\n255\n00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.000\nthat more or less existed for 40 or 50 years,\n\n256\n00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.320\na flash point, in this case, a college ruling,\n\n257\n00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:08.920\nor I'm sorry, a court ruling,\n\n258\n00:11:08.920 --> 00:11:13.440\nand a series of court rulings was this flash of disruption.\n\n259\n00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.560\nSo it looks like all the old rules get thrown out the window.\n\n260\n00:11:16.560 --> 00:11:18.960\nYou know we'll eventually have a new set of rules\n\n261\n00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.840\nthat will make sense and be modern.\n\n262\n00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.640\nBut in the middle, you have this period of lawlessness.\n\n263\n00:11:24.640 --> 00:11:26.320\nAnd that's where we are today.\n\n264\n00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.200\nWe got the new rules, but it's not clear\n\n265\n00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.920\nthat they really apply, are people really following them.\n\n266\n00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:35.000\nAnd so we're in that sort of uncomfortable middle.\n\n267\n00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:36.720\nWe will get to a good place.\n\n268\n00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:40.320\nI was at the summit of the White House on Friday\n\n269\n00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.720\nand there's on saving college athletics.\n\n270\n00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:45.400\nAnd everyone knows we need a new set of rules.\n\n271\n00:11:45.400 --> 00:11:48.840\nIt's just a matter of what's the path\n\n272\n00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:50.840\nand how long it will take to get to them.\n\n273\n00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:52.760\n- You know, college is looking more and more\n\n274\n00:11:52.760 --> 00:11:54.560\nlike professional sports every year.\n\n275\n00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:58.680\nAnd as a leader, what aspects of amateur sports\n\n276\n00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:01.400\nare you trying to protect?\n\n277\n00:12:01.400 --> 00:12:03.920\n- Well, David, it starts with why are we here?\n\n278\n00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:07.560\nI think like any good organization, any good institution,\n\n279\n00:12:07.560 --> 00:12:10.080\nyou got to ask the why questions first.\n\n280\n00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:14.200\nAnd college athletics exists first and foremost\n\n281\n00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:16.680\nto serve student athletes\n\n282\n00:12:16.680 --> 00:12:20.120\nat a formative time in their lives.\n\n283\n00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.880\nAnd frankly, many student athletes,\n\n284\n00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:24.920\nhistorically and still today,\n\n285\n00:12:24.920 --> 00:12:27.600\nare going to be the future leaders in our society\n\n286\n00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:31.560\nand in our world, beyond their athletic careers.\n\n287\n00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:34.120\nAnd so the why college athletics exists,\n\n288\n00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.360\nyou've got to keep that front and center.\n\n289\n00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.120\nNow, do college athletes in particular college football\n\n290\n00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.440\nand basketball players deserve to be paid\n\n291\n00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.280\nin today's media and economic environment?\n\n292\n00:12:47.280 --> 00:12:49.360\nThe answer, that's probably yes.\n\n293\n00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:52.920\nAnd so we've got to figure out how do we retain,\n\n294\n00:12:52.920 --> 00:12:54.880\nfocus on the student athlete,\n\n295\n00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:57.920\nbut also finding a way they can get paid\n\n296\n00:12:57.920 --> 00:13:01.640\nand share in some of the value that they're creating.\n\n297\n00:13:01.640 --> 00:13:06.080\nIn a modern world, how do we ensure that if a student athlete\n\n298\n00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.560\nwants to be mobile, that they can't ever transfer?\n\n299\n00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:12.640\nSo you've got to make transferring a little bit easier\n\n300\n00:13:12.640 --> 00:13:13.480\nthan it used to be,\n\n301\n00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:15.760\nbut it doesn't have to be every single year.\n\n302\n00:13:15.760 --> 00:13:18.920\nAnd so I think the balance is keeping clear on\n\n303\n00:13:18.920 --> 00:13:21.440\nwe're here to exist for the student athlete,\n\n304\n00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:25.680\nand now we've got to adopt some changes that are appropriate,\n\n305\n00:13:25.680 --> 00:13:27.760\nbut not throw the baby out to bath water,\n\n306\n00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:29.280\nwhich is the risk today.\n\n307\n00:13:29.280 --> 00:13:30.800\n- When I hear you talking about that,\n\n308\n00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:32.440\nit reminds me of Jim Collins' book\n\n309\n00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:34.640\nwhere he talks about the magic of the end.\n\n310\n00:13:34.640 --> 00:13:37.640\nYou know, you've got things like NIL,\n\n311\n00:13:37.640 --> 00:13:40.000\npaying college athletes,\n\n312\n00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:43.320\nand then you've got this, particularly at Stanford,\n\n313\n00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:45.000\nwhich I would think the academic,\n\n314\n00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.720\nwe know the academic standards are so high,\n\n315\n00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:51.480\nit's like, what is going to be your process\n\n316\n00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.040\nfor trying to navigate that magic of the end?\n\n317\n00:13:55.040 --> 00:13:56.560\n- So the first thing I did, David,\n\n318\n00:13:56.560 --> 00:13:59.200\nbecause I was new to being an athletic director,\n\n319\n00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:02.200\nis I go on a listening and learning tour.\n\n320\n00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:04.400\nI said, my number one priority is to do a lot of listening\n\n321\n00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:05.560\nand a lot of learning,\n\n322\n00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:07.400\nand I started with our head coaches.\n\n323\n00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:11.480\nAnd we have 36 sports, we have 31 head coaches,\n\n324\n00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:13.640\na few of them teach, or a few of them coach,\n\n325\n00:14:13.640 --> 00:14:16.520\nyou know, a multiple track and field coach\n\n326\n00:14:16.520 --> 00:14:18.680\nas cross country as well, for example,\n\n327\n00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:23.280\nor a rowing coach that has heavyweight and lightweight rowing.\n\n328\n00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:26.320\nBut I asked them, what do we need to retain?\n\n329\n00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.040\nWhat do we need to retain and what do we need to change?\n\n330\n00:14:29.040 --> 00:14:31.640\nAnd every single one said, please,\n\n331\n00:14:31.640 --> 00:14:34.560\ndo not reduce the admission standards,\n\n332\n00:14:34.560 --> 00:14:37.320\nbecause that differentiates us.\n\n333\n00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.680\nThere are enough outstanding high school athletes\n\n334\n00:14:41.680 --> 00:14:44.600\nthat are also outstanding students.\n\n335\n00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:46.280\nAnd if we lower our admission standards,\n\n336\n00:14:46.280 --> 00:14:48.200\nwe're gonna be just like everyone else.\n\n337\n00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:52.280\nAnd so we'd rather target and focus on those\n\n338\n00:14:52.280 --> 00:14:55.480\nthat have excellence both academically and athletically\n\n339\n00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.320\nand can get into Stanford.\n\n340\n00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:58.880\nBecause then once they're in,\n\n341\n00:14:58.880 --> 00:15:02.360\nthere's a source of identity and a source of pride.\n\n342\n00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:03.960\nAnd that's what allowed Stanford,\n\n343\n00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.640\nhas allowed Stanford to punch above its weight\n\n344\n00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:07.600\nfor so many years.\n\n345\n00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:09.760\nAnd so I was really reassuring to me, David,\n\n346\n00:15:09.760 --> 00:15:11.440\nI expected to hear a little bit differently.\n\n347\n00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.000\nI expected people to say,\n\n348\n00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.400\nhey, John, by the way, we gotta lower the admission standards\n\n349\n00:15:15.400 --> 00:15:17.600\nthat we're gonna compete in today's era.\n\n350\n00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:18.840\nAnd I heard the opposite.\n\n351\n00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.840\nLet's make sure we continue to double down\n\n352\n00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:23.240\nin our differentiation.\n\n353\n00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:24.680\n- I would have expected that too.\n\n354\n00:15:24.680 --> 00:15:26.560\nThat had to be a surprise.\n\n355\n00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:29.560\n- It was, but then the next part of the end is,\n\n356\n00:15:29.560 --> 00:15:31.920\nand we have to retain them.\n\n357\n00:15:31.920 --> 00:15:35.000\nWe can't bring them in and then have them all leave.\n\n358\n00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:39.200\nWe've got to deliver such a great experience\n\n359\n00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.920\nthat they say, you know what?\n\n360\n00:15:40.920 --> 00:15:43.440\nInstead of going pro, I wanna get my degree,\n\n361\n00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.920\n'cause that Stanford degree is a lifelong asset.\n\n362\n00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:47.720\nOr instead of transferring to another school,\n\n363\n00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.640\n'cause they're gonna pay me $50,000 more,\n\n364\n00:15:50.640 --> 00:15:51.960\nI wanna stay at Stanford,\n\n365\n00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.960\nbecause perhaps I'm getting some payment,\n\n366\n00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.960\nbut I'm being part, I'm learning life lessons,\n\n367\n00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:59.720\nI'm being part of an institution,\n\n368\n00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.240\nbuilding relationships, developing a network,\n\n369\n00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.120\nthat will be a lifelong asset.\n\n370\n00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:05.720\nAnd that is, you know, one of the areas,\n\n371\n00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.040\nI think we do a good job, not a great job.\n\n372\n00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:09.000\nAnd we're working on this.\n\n373\n00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:11.000\nHow do we make sure that full end-to-end\n\n374\n00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.640\nstudent-athlete experience is highly differentiated\n\n375\n00:16:14.640 --> 00:16:16.960\nand done in a way that only Stanford can?\n\n376\n00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:18.600\n- I bet, Ed, Stanford, you know,\n\n377\n00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:19.560\nI hadn't really thought about this,\n\n378\n00:16:19.560 --> 00:16:21.680\nbut here when you talk about this,\n\n379\n00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:25.800\nat Stanford, you know, there had to be a lot of concern\n\n380\n00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:29.360\nabout the alumni, about paying an athlete period,\n\n381\n00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:31.160\nbecause you offer such a great education.\n\n382\n00:16:31.160 --> 00:16:34.880\nSo, giving in the game of being able to pay athletes\n\n383\n00:16:34.880 --> 00:16:37.400\nso that you can compete in sports like basketball\n\n384\n00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:39.640\nand football, did you have a lot of resistance,\n\n385\n00:16:39.640 --> 00:16:42.320\neven to get people to buy into that?\n\n386\n00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.240\n- This happened, you know, before I got here,\n\n387\n00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.320\nbut I think anyone at Stanford would say,\n\n388\n00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.160\nStanford was late for just the reasons you highlighted.\n\n389\n00:16:51.160 --> 00:16:55.480\nWhen the changes went into effect in 2021, 2022, and 2023,\n\n390\n00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:59.080\nStanford was late paying athletes.\n\n391\n00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.720\nAnd as a result, we lost a lot of athletes\n\n392\n00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:03.320\nthat transferred to other places,\n\n393\n00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:05.160\n'cause it was a case where they were gonna get zero\n\n394\n00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:08.360\nfrom Stanford or something from somewhere else.\n\n395\n00:17:08.360 --> 00:17:10.480\nAnd our current president, John Levin,\n\n396\n00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:11.880\nwho's just been a tremendous,\n\n397\n00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.640\nhe's been in his role now for two years,\n\n398\n00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.560\nhe's a Stanford alum, maybe he's moving in his third year,\n\n399\n00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:20.080\nhe deeply believes in the importance of athletics\n\n400\n00:17:20.080 --> 00:17:22.520\nat Stanford, along with the importance of academics,\n\n401\n00:17:22.520 --> 00:17:24.480\nand you can have excellence in both.\n\n402\n00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:26.920\nAnd he went to the Faculty Senate\n\n403\n00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:31.320\nabout probably 18 months ago, I'm guessing now,\n\n404\n00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:35.040\nand said this is something we need to be able to do.\n\n405\n00:17:35.040 --> 00:17:37.000\nWe believe we can fund it in a way,\n\n406\n00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.400\nit's not taking away from any of the academic departments,\n\n407\n00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:43.600\nwe can raise the money separately,\n\n408\n00:17:43.600 --> 00:17:46.760\nand we will do it in a way that is consistent\n\n409\n00:17:46.760 --> 00:17:49.960\nwith our values, and the Faculty Senate approved it.\n\n410\n00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:54.040\nSo we now are able, under the House rule,\n\n411\n00:17:54.040 --> 00:17:56.720\nfor the $20.5 million revenue share,\n\n412\n00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.720\nwhich is the primary way universities pay the athletes,\n\n413\n00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.840\nwe do as everyone else, we pay those athletes,\n\n414\n00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:07.000\nbut our coaches know with the recruit\n\n415\n00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:08.400\nor with an existing athlete,\n\n416\n00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:09.800\nif it ever is all about the money,\n\n417\n00:18:09.800 --> 00:18:12.920\nthat person's probably not the right fit for Stanford,\n\n418\n00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:17.920\nand vice versa, and so it's part of the value proposition\n\n419\n00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.120\nor part of the equation we're offering,\n\n420\n00:18:20.120 --> 00:18:21.600\nbut it's not the whole thing.\n\n421\n00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:26.440\nAnd so I think we were slow out of the gate,\n\n422\n00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:30.520\nand hopefully now we're in the game, if you will.\n\n423\n00:18:30.520 --> 00:18:33.080\n- Big-time athletic departments today\n\n424\n00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:36.960\noperate a lot like media and entertainment companies,\n\n425\n00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.800\n'cause there's so much revenue to be generated\n\n426\n00:18:39.800 --> 00:18:41.840\nfrom the great brand that you have\n\n427\n00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:45.080\nwith the media contracts, et cetera, streaming, whatever.\n\n428\n00:18:45.080 --> 00:18:50.960\nYour background, how'd you get you ready for this?\n\n429\n00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.440\n- Well, yeah, I think the background you and I share\n\n430\n00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:58.080\nof having been a public company CEO,\n\n431\n00:18:58.080 --> 00:19:01.280\nand it's that yum, you wanted to build\n\n432\n00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:02.760\na great enduring company,\n\n433\n00:19:02.760 --> 00:19:04.760\nand you had to deliver financial results.\n\n434\n00:19:04.760 --> 00:19:07.160\nAt eBay or Service Now or Nike,\n\n435\n00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.440\nI wanted to build great enduring companies,\n\n436\n00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:11.680\npurpose-driven companies, all three of them\n\n437\n00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:13.240\nwere very purpose-driven.\n\n438\n00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:16.120\nAnd by the way, you gotta deliver strong financial results.\n\n439\n00:19:16.120 --> 00:19:17.720\nAnd that is what you said a minute ago,\n\n440\n00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.640\nit's the power of the end.\n\n441\n00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.320\nAnd so within the athletic department,\n\n442\n00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:24.800\nhow do we stay true to why we exist,\n\n443\n00:19:24.800 --> 00:19:26.920\nthat we're here to serve the student athlete,\n\n444\n00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.120\nwe're here to help them grow and develop themselves,\n\n445\n00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:33.040\nboth athletically, but also academically,\n\n446\n00:19:33.040 --> 00:19:35.800\ntheir character, their experience.\n\n447\n00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:39.280\nAnd we have the opportunity to generate more revenue\n\n448\n00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:42.920\nthan we did in prior eras, between sponsorships,\n\n449\n00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:44.880\nbetween ticket sales, you know, next year,\n\n450\n00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:49.000\nthey're gonna be a patch on all NCAA uniforms.\n\n451\n00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.680\nSo, okay, we remember when that happened in the NBA,\n\n452\n00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.400\nit was a little bit of a head-turner the first year,\n\n453\n00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:56.320\nbut then people got used to it.\n\n454\n00:19:56.320 --> 00:20:00.720\nAnd so, we have to embrace, I would say, sustainable practices\n\n455\n00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:02.720\nthat allow us to also generate the revenue\n\n456\n00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.520\nthat allows us over time to, you know,\n\n457\n00:20:06.520 --> 00:20:09.320\nserve and compensate our student athletes.\n\n458\n00:20:09.320 --> 00:20:11.040\n- Is there any other college program\n\n459\n00:20:11.040 --> 00:20:12.880\nthat you look at and say that's a model\n\n460\n00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.200\nthat we could learn from, you know,\n\n461\n00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.560\n'cause I know from your outside in perspective at Bain,\n\n462\n00:20:16.560 --> 00:20:18.520\nyou would definitely look at competition.\n\n463\n00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:21.080\n- Absolutely, I mean, we look at,\n\n464\n00:20:21.080 --> 00:20:25.080\nwe look at our, what we call our peer institutions\n\n465\n00:20:25.080 --> 00:20:27.680\nall the time, obviously our peer institutions\n\n466\n00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.320\nwithin the ACC, which is, by the way,\n\n467\n00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:34.600\na very strong, the ACC has outstanding academic schools,\n\n468\n00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:36.600\npretty much across the board.\n\n469\n00:20:36.600 --> 00:20:39.920\nAnd so, we're, you know, now I could pick any one of them,\n\n470\n00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.700\nyou know, a Duke, North Carolina, Virginia,\n\n471\n00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:48.720\na Boston college, virtually almost all of them.\n\n472\n00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.320\nNotre Dame, Pete, the athletic director at Notre Dame\n\n473\n00:20:52.320 --> 00:20:53.800\nhas become a good friend in Stanford\n\n474\n00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:56.920\nin Notre Dame of a long, a long history.\n\n475\n00:20:56.920 --> 00:20:59.160\nYou look at what a Northwestern Evander built,\n\n476\n00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.920\nother universities that hold themselves\n\n477\n00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:04.680\nto really high academic standards\n\n478\n00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.520\nand are embracing this future world.\n\n479\n00:21:08.520 --> 00:21:12.720\nAnd so, we're looking to learn really from anyone.\n\n480\n00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.080\nAnd, you know, but in that process,\n\n481\n00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:18.840\ntry to find out what is the right Stanford way\n\n482\n00:21:18.840 --> 00:21:21.640\nof doing this that learns what's,\n\n483\n00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:23.120\n'cause I keep asking, hey,\n\n484\n00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:24.840\nwhat does great look like?\n\n485\n00:21:24.840 --> 00:21:27.480\nTell me what you probably did throughout your career, right?\n\n486\n00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:28.760\nTell me what great looks like.\n\n487\n00:21:28.760 --> 00:21:30.920\nI wanna know what the best practice is,\n\n488\n00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:32.720\nand then we can choose what elements\n\n489\n00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.000\nof that best practice we wanna embrace.\n\n490\n00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.080\nAnd through that process, maybe create\n\n491\n00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:39.520\na new definition of a best practice,\n\n492\n00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:42.320\na new definition that's not quite as, you know,\n\n493\n00:21:42.320 --> 00:21:44.720\nthat may not be exactly what someone else is doing,\n\n494\n00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.000\nbut it's what is right for us.\n\n495\n00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.120\n- Yeah, that seems like a great example of pattern thinking,\n\n496\n00:21:50.120 --> 00:21:51.640\nlooking at what's working somewhere else\n\n497\n00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.560\nand saying how can you make it work in a way that's Stanford?\n\n498\n00:21:54.560 --> 00:21:57.480\nDo you have an example of where you've really done that today, John?\n\n499\n00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:01.120\n- Oh, I can think of, I'll give one example.\n\n500\n00:22:01.120 --> 00:22:07.200\nSo, you know, there's talk about the over the cap NIL, right?\n\n501\n00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.080\nName, image, and likeness.\n\n502\n00:22:09.080 --> 00:22:13.320\nWhich in essence is, how do you create sponsorship deals\n\n503\n00:22:13.320 --> 00:22:16.360\nfor student athletes, where you have,\n\n504\n00:22:16.360 --> 00:22:18.480\nthat has to be a legitimate business\n\n505\n00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.080\nin exchange for a service at a market rate?\n\n506\n00:22:22.080 --> 00:22:24.400\nAnd so there are a lot of deals being done out there\n\n507\n00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:26.600\nwhere it's saying to a student athlete,\n\n508\n00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:29.040\nhey, we're the local car dealership,\n\n509\n00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:32.400\nif you do 10 Instagram posts, we'll pay you X, right?\n\n510\n00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:34.280\nAnd you're almost creating activities.\n\n511\n00:22:34.280 --> 00:22:40.520\nA Stanford version of a great NIL deal\n\n512\n00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:44.480\nfor our student athletes is a summer internship\n\n513\n00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:49.560\nat a technology company at a venture capital firm\n\n514\n00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:52.320\nat many of the firms here in Silicon Valley.\n\n515\n00:22:52.320 --> 00:22:55.920\nAnd so what we're saying to our student athletes is great.\n\n516\n00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.040\nYou know what, you're training here this summer.\n\n517\n00:22:58.040 --> 00:23:02.240\nWe've got a great six week or eight week summer internship\n\n518\n00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:05.280\nat this venture capital firm or this technology firm\n\n519\n00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:06.400\nor this startup.\n\n520\n00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.440\nAnd by the way, they're gonna pay you\n\n521\n00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.160\nthe same way they pay their other summer interns.\n\n522\n00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.440\nYou don't have to file that as an NIL deal, interestingly,\n\n523\n00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.160\nbut that's a very, that's a very Stanford way\n\n524\n00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:20.320\nof getting some payment to athletes.\n\n525\n00:23:20.320 --> 00:23:24.160\nBut in a way, they're in exchange for a service\n\n526\n00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.680\nthat is building their career\n\n527\n00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.080\nand building their relationships\n\n528\n00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:32.320\nand building their network for post-playing days.\n\n529\n00:23:32.320 --> 00:23:34.480\nAnd so, and our athletes love that.\n\n530\n00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:39.000\nIt's interesting, we do have some,\n\n531\n00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.040\nwe've been a pilot with our women's gymnastics team.\n\n532\n00:23:42.040 --> 00:23:44.680\nThis is another way of making the same point.\n\n533\n00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.120\nAnd around how they can build their personal brands\n\n534\n00:23:48.120 --> 00:23:53.120\non Instagram and TikTok and the social networks.\n\n535\n00:23:53.120 --> 00:23:56.200\nAnd one of the student athletes was so great,\n\n536\n00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.600\n'cause she said to one of my colleagues,\n\n537\n00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:01.560\nyou know, I'm not doing this for the money.\n\n538\n00:24:01.560 --> 00:24:05.560\nI wanna use this in my application for med school\n\n539\n00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:08.080\nto show I'm taking initiative.\n\n540\n00:24:08.080 --> 00:24:09.440\nOr another said, I wanna use this\n\n541\n00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:13.360\nwhen I interview for jobs to demonstrate that I understand\n\n542\n00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:17.240\nhow influencer marketing, social media and marketing is going.\n\n543\n00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.040\nAnd so the Stanford students, you know,\n\n544\n00:24:20.040 --> 00:24:22.800\nI think they have maybe a little more focus\n\n545\n00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:26.360\non their longer-term careers in addition to the desire\n\n546\n00:24:26.360 --> 00:24:29.560\nto make some money while they're here.\n\n547\n00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:31.520\n- I hope you are loving this conversation\n\n548\n00:24:31.520 --> 00:24:33.920\nbetween David and John as always.\n\n549\n00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:35.800\nStay tuned to the very end of the episode.\n\n550\n00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:39.120\nDavid and I will be debriefing his conversation with John\n\n551\n00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:40.720\nso that you leave this episode\n\n552\n00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.800\nwith something really tangible to apply right away\n\n553\n00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:46.080\nto your leadership and to your life.\n\n554\n00:24:46.080 --> 00:24:48.320\nSo stay tuned to the very end of the episode\n\n555\n00:24:48.320 --> 00:24:50.480\nand I will see you at the debrief.\n\n556\n00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.680\n- You know, I've heard you say, John,\n\n557\n00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.440\nand I couldn't agree more than in every company\n\n558\n00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.040\nthat you've led, you've never thought of yourself as the boss.\n\n559\n00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:03.080\nYou know, you thought of yourself as the head coach.\n\n560\n00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:04.040\nSay more.\n\n561\n00:25:04.040 --> 00:25:06.400\n- David, you know, it's funny.\n\n562\n00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.160\nI'm sitting in my office here at, in the Stanford\n\n563\n00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.960\nelect department and literally a hundred yards away\n\n564\n00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:14.800\nis the Stanford Business School.\n\n565\n00:25:14.800 --> 00:25:16.960\nAnd I graduated from the Stanford Business School\n\n566\n00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:19.440\nliterally 40 years ago this spring.\n\n567\n00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.120\nI was 11 years old at the time.\n\n568\n00:25:22.120 --> 00:25:24.080\n(laughing)\n\n569\n00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:26.880\nAnd one of the phrases I heard when I was in the business school\n\n570\n00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.200\nwas this concept of servant leadership.\n\n571\n00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:34.040\nAnd it just lit me up because the notion\n\n572\n00:25:34.040 --> 00:25:36.360\nof servant leadership is the job of the leader\n\n573\n00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:39.800\nis to serve the purpose of the organization\n\n574\n00:25:39.800 --> 00:25:43.000\nthat you're part of, to serve your teammates,\n\n575\n00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.040\nto serve your customers, to serve the society\n\n576\n00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:48.520\nand community in which you operate.\n\n577\n00:25:48.520 --> 00:25:52.480\nAnd it just resonated with me\n\n578\n00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.600\n'cause service was something that I could really connect with.\n\n579\n00:25:55.600 --> 00:25:58.640\nAnd I feel like service is what I've learned over the years\n\n580\n00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.800\nis an incredible source, not only of inspiration,\n\n581\n00:26:01.800 --> 00:26:06.440\nbut also of resilience 'cause so much of leading\n\n582\n00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:09.320\nis about having the resilience to work through\n\n583\n00:26:09.320 --> 00:26:11.720\nthe inevitable ups and downs.\n\n584\n00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:13.440\nAnd relatively early in my career,\n\n585\n00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.880\nI was looking around as a, for servant leaders\n\n586\n00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.680\nthat I thought I admired or I wanted to emulate.\n\n587\n00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.000\nYou and I were both raised in the era of the Jack Welsh era\n\n588\n00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:26.760\nwhere the CEO was kind of the dominant top-down figure.\n\n589\n00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:31.080\nAnd for me, head coaches, the light bulb went on.\n\n590\n00:26:31.080 --> 00:26:32.280\nIt's like, wait a minute.\n\n591\n00:26:32.280 --> 00:26:36.600\nI was Phil Jackson was one of my early muses on this.\n\n592\n00:26:36.600 --> 00:26:39.920\nAnd the job of a head coach, it's not about the coach,\n\n593\n00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.280\nthe job of the head coach is literally coach,\n\n594\n00:26:42.280 --> 00:26:46.640\nmake their teammates better, make his or her team better.\n\n595\n00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:51.400\nThe head coach gets to define who makes the team,\n\n596\n00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:54.840\ngets to define who starts, gets to define what plays they run,\n\n597\n00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:58.320\ngets to define who gets the substitute who has to come out.\n\n598\n00:26:58.320 --> 00:27:01.280\nBut then after doing that, it's all about the players.\n\n599\n00:27:01.280 --> 00:27:03.640\nAnd so head coaches have always been my muses.\n\n600\n00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:05.960\nIn fact, when I was at Nike,\n\n601\n00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.840\nI had Phil Jackson, coach K, Tarravan Devere,\n\n602\n00:27:09.840 --> 00:27:12.600\nand John Thompson on my wall behind me.\n\n603\n00:27:12.600 --> 00:27:15.760\nAnd every Zoom I did over the five years there,\n\n604\n00:27:15.760 --> 00:27:19.520\nhad them over my shoulders 'cause the organization knew\n\n605\n00:27:19.520 --> 00:27:24.520\nI called myself head coach and my muses were over my shoulders.\n\n606\n00:27:24.520 --> 00:27:27.320\nAnd I've learned such amazing lessons.\n\n607\n00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:29.880\nWe at some point have loved to share a couple of coach K stories\n\n608\n00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.920\nand as well as Tarravan Devere stories,\n\n609\n00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:33.760\nwhose office is now next to mine.\n\n610\n00:27:33.760 --> 00:27:37.280\n- Well, what would be your most impactful coach K story?\n\n611\n00:27:37.280 --> 00:27:39.960\n- Coach K, sorry, first time I met coach K,\n\n612\n00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:43.840\nI'll tell too that it happened right one right after another.\n\n613\n00:27:43.840 --> 00:27:45.360\nI met him, he was one of my heroes,\n\n614\n00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:47.560\nI met him when I was at service now.\n\n615\n00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:50.200\nHe came to do a talk to our top customers.\n\n616\n00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:52.320\nAnd he said, you know, I wanna meet with you ahead of time.\n\n617\n00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:54.480\nSo I make sure I'm on target.\n\n618\n00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:55.640\nCan you have lunch ahead of time?\n\n619\n00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:57.320\nI said, yes, I'd love that.\n\n620\n00:27:57.320 --> 00:28:00.320\nHe walks into the conference room where,\n\n621\n00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:01.640\nand he shows me the phone.\n\n622\n00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:03.480\nHe says, he says, think about my life.\n\n623\n00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.480\nHe said, I spend my life recruiting 15, 16,\n\n624\n00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:12.000\nand 17 year old boys to come to Duke increasingly for one year.\n\n625\n00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:15.160\nHe said, I have to understand how they communicate,\n\n626\n00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.360\nwhat music they like.\n\n627\n00:28:17.360 --> 00:28:20.480\nHe said, I've had to reinvent myself 10 times\n\n628\n00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.400\nin the last 20 years.\n\n629\n00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:24.680\nNow coach K, by the way, at this stage is 72.\n\n630\n00:28:25.840 --> 00:28:27.280\nHe said, I'm currently texting\n\n631\n00:28:27.280 --> 00:28:30.680\nwith the number one high school sophomore in the country.\n\n632\n00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.280\nAnd he barely uses words, he uses emojis.\n\n633\n00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:34.960\nAnd he said, I didn't even know what emojis was\n\n634\n00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:38.280\na couple weeks ago till my granddaughter taught me.\n\n635\n00:28:38.280 --> 00:28:40.640\nAnd he just thought it was hilarious.\n\n636\n00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.440\nSo this notion of reinvention,\n\n637\n00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:48.440\nthat here's the winningness male coach in college history.\n\n638\n00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:51.960\nA second example, I said, you know, coach K,\n\n639\n00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.960\nand this just gets adaptability.\n\n640\n00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:55.920\nI just love Duke basketball.\n\n641\n00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:57.640\nI love the values of Duke basketball,\n\n642\n00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:00.920\nthe fundamentals, your focus on defense and teamwork.\n\n643\n00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:02.960\nAnd he kind of rolls his eyes.\n\n644\n00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:06.240\nHe says, yeah, Duke basketball culture.\n\n645\n00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.480\nHe said, you remember when the three point shot came in?\n\n646\n00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:12.920\nAnd I said, yeah, he said, remember it was Rick Petino\n\n647\n00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:14.560\nin Kentucky, he sort of made it famous,\n\n648\n00:29:14.560 --> 00:29:16.840\nthe running gun, that team.\n\n649\n00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.520\nHe said, you know, at first I thought\n\n650\n00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:21.160\nthree point shot was inconsistent\n\n651\n00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:22.640\nwith the values of Duke basketball\n\n652\n00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.200\nand the culture of Duke basketball.\n\n653\n00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:26.400\nWe passed the ball three times before we shoot,\n\n654\n00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:27.800\nwe tried to work it inside.\n\n655\n00:29:27.800 --> 00:29:31.200\nSo we didn't adapt three point shot.\n\n656\n00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.920\nAnd then we started losing.\n\n657\n00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.200\nSo I had to figure out how to incorporate\n\n658\n00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:40.200\nthe three point shot into Duke basketball culture and values.\n\n659\n00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:42.960\nHe said, do you remember one and done when that came in?\n\n660\n00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:44.880\nHe said, that was absolutely unethical\n\n661\n00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:47.200\nto Duke basketball values and culture.\n\n662\n00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:50.800\nOur athletes graduate, our seniors teach our freshmen,\n\n663\n00:29:50.800 --> 00:29:52.560\nwe want people who are gonna be over time.\n\n664\n00:29:52.560 --> 00:29:55.080\nSo we did not embrace one and done.\n\n665\n00:29:55.080 --> 00:29:56.920\n- Yeah, I remember Coach Caliperi,\n\n666\n00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.560\nwho was leading the way of one and done at Kentucky,\n\n667\n00:29:59.560 --> 00:30:03.680\nsaid Coach K called him and talked to him for an hour\n\n668\n00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:05.400\nor two just on the whole one and done\n\n669\n00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:07.720\nand what's working, what doesn't work.\n\n670\n00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:09.560\nBut he was a seeker of knowledge\n\n671\n00:30:09.560 --> 00:30:12.080\nand one that wanted to adapt.\n\n672\n00:30:12.080 --> 00:30:12.920\n- That's the point.\n\n673\n00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:15.000\nHe figured out how to embrace it.\n\n674\n00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.320\nAnd that, I think that's what these coaches,\n\n675\n00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:21.920\nyou know, every year they have different sets of players.\n\n676\n00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:23.480\nThey have different competition.\n\n677\n00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.760\nSo they have to be incredibly adaptive and curious.\n\n678\n00:30:27.760 --> 00:30:30.440\nThey can't just depend upon what got them there.\n\n679\n00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.920\nAnd so Coach K was such a wonderful example.\n\n680\n00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:34.080\nI'll say one final thing.\n\n681\n00:30:34.080 --> 00:30:38.000\nHe said, then NIL comes along and I decided to retire.\n\n682\n00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.000\n(laughing)\n\n683\n00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.040\n- He's leaving that to you to figure out, okay?\n\n684\n00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:47.040\nYou know, and, you know, as a, as a servant leader,\n\n685\n00:30:47.040 --> 00:30:50.760\nyou know, I'm sure one of the things you wanna do\n\n686\n00:30:50.760 --> 00:30:52.000\nis support your coaches.\n\n687\n00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.400\nSo I would imagine one of the big roles that you have\n\n688\n00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.840\nis to do the business stuff so that they can take time\n\n689\n00:30:59.840 --> 00:31:01.240\nto focus on the players.\n\n690\n00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:06.240\nIs that a fair assumption to make or is it too simplistic?\n\n691\n00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.080\n- It's both, that's your answer.\n\n692\n00:31:08.080 --> 00:31:10.280\nWe had a head coaches meeting this morning.\n\n693\n00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:12.640\nThe head coaches, no, I came in on day one\n\n694\n00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:15.200\nand I said, here's how I think of organization structure,\n\n695\n00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.440\nmy whole career.\n\n696\n00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:18.720\nMost people think of organization structure as a pyramid\n\n697\n00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:20.680\nwhere the quote unquote leaders on top,\n\n698\n00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.240\neveryone else is underneath.\n\n699\n00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.440\nI believe in an upside down triangle.\n\n700\n00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:27.800\nI believe the people at the top of the organization chart\n\n701\n00:31:27.800 --> 00:31:31.320\nare, you've got, are the people that for whom you exist.\n\n702\n00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:33.520\nSo in a business, it's your customer.\n\n703\n00:31:33.520 --> 00:31:35.320\nIn our case, our student athletes,\n\n704\n00:31:35.320 --> 00:31:38.080\nwe exist to serve our student athletes.\n\n705\n00:31:38.080 --> 00:31:41.720\nThen the top of our internal organization chart\n\n706\n00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:44.080\nare our head coaches 'cause they are the ones\n\n707\n00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:47.400\nthat recruit our athletes and help them perform.\n\n708\n00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.280\nAnd then everyone else in the athletic department\n\n709\n00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:52.920\nexists to help our coaches, help our student athletes.\n\n710\n00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.760\nAnd I'm at the very bottom as the servant leader.\n\n711\n00:31:56.760 --> 00:32:01.760\nAnd so I treat our coaches as my boss\n\n712\n00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:03.640\nand they know that.\n\n713\n00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:05.760\nI learned from them, I support them.\n\n714\n00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:07.840\nIt turns out that by the way, David, each of them\n\n715\n00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:09.600\nare many CEOs.\n\n716\n00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:11.680\nAnd you know, guess what?\n\n717\n00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:13.720\nBeing a CEO is a lonely job.\n\n718\n00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:17.120\nAnd especially after some tough losses,\n\n719\n00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:20.360\nour men's basketball team lost yesterday\n\n720\n00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:23.600\nin the first round of the ACC tournament to pit.\n\n721\n00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:27.160\nOn a tip-in, we were up one\n\n722\n00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:30.160\nand with less than one second to go,\n\n723\n00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.600\npit tipped a ball and we lost.\n\n724\n00:32:32.600 --> 00:32:34.640\nLike those, you know, Kyle Smith\n\n725\n00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.840\nand Eric revenue and that coaching staff\n\n726\n00:32:36.840 --> 00:32:41.560\nor our women's basketball team lost in overtime,\n\n727\n00:32:41.560 --> 00:32:42.400\nyou know, last week.\n\n728\n00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.960\nAnd so the coaches were building community of support\n\n729\n00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:48.120\nfor one another because it's a lonely job.\n\n730\n00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:50.760\nNow, many of them have one NCAA championships\n\n731\n00:32:50.760 --> 00:32:53.120\nand high highs, but you also have lows.\n\n732\n00:32:53.120 --> 00:32:55.720\nAnd so one of the more enjoyable parts\n\n733\n00:32:55.720 --> 00:32:57.680\nof this role thus far has been the engagement\n\n734\n00:32:57.680 --> 00:32:59.960\nwith our coaches, building communities,\n\n735\n00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:01.280\nsharing experiences.\n\n736\n00:33:01.280 --> 00:33:03.040\nThey're some of the most extraordinary\n\n737\n00:33:03.040 --> 00:33:05.320\nservant leaders I've ever seen,\n\n738\n00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:08.000\nbut it's also really heartening to see how they reach out\n\n739\n00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.640\nand help each other through what is inevitable,\n\n740\n00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:12.760\nthe ups and downs of sports.\n\n741\n00:33:12.760 --> 00:33:14.080\n- Did that culture exist?\n\n742\n00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:17.240\nOr are you driving that culture of collaboration and support?\n\n743\n00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.000\n- I think I'm re-enabling it.\n\n744\n00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.040\nYou know, some of them said that it existed before,\n\n745\n00:33:23.040 --> 00:33:24.920\nbut they were sort of missing it.\n\n746\n00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.400\nAnd you know, David, I think that's probably a little bit\n\n747\n00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:32.240\na symptom of COVID, you know, you just got,\n\n748\n00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:34.680\nyou got into, we all got into patterns\n\n749\n00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:36.920\nand it was sort of the, maybe it was the,\n\n750\n00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:39.680\nbefore when work from home was still the thing,\n\n751\n00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:42.120\nwhen you got back together, you know,\n\n752\n00:33:42.120 --> 00:33:44.040\nin a company or in an organization,\n\n753\n00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:47.080\nit allowed a more spontaneous interaction,\n\n754\n00:33:47.080 --> 00:33:50.600\nmore in personal, in person engagement.\n\n755\n00:33:50.600 --> 00:33:54.400\nAnd now what we're doing is each coach says,\n\n756\n00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.720\n\"By the way, here's, we call them our gold games.\"\n\n757\n00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:01.320\nWe have so many events going on like this weekend.\n\n758\n00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:05.840\nI literally think we have 15 different games going on,\n\n759\n00:34:05.840 --> 00:34:08.360\nmany of them at the same time Saturday and Sunday.\n\n760\n00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:10.880\nBut our coaches saying this is the most important,\n\n761\n00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.240\nyou know, our lacrosse, our women's lacrosse coach,\n\n762\n00:34:13.240 --> 00:34:15.600\nDanielle, fabulous leader, she's playing,\n\n763\n00:34:15.600 --> 00:34:17.720\nshe's undefeated, they're undefeated thus far.\n\n764\n00:34:17.720 --> 00:34:19.480\nThey play Notre Dame this weekend.\n\n765\n00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:21.520\nShe said, \"Please come out to the Notre Dame game.\n\n766\n00:34:21.520 --> 00:34:23.880\n\"You don't need to come to the game the next day,\n\n767\n00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:25.160\n\"but come to the Notre Dame game.\"\n\n768\n00:34:25.160 --> 00:34:27.160\nAnd so our athletes and our coaches\n\n769\n00:34:27.160 --> 00:34:28.640\nare also showing up for each other,\n\n770\n00:34:28.640 --> 00:34:31.240\nwhich is really inspiring.\n\n771\n00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:33.240\n- You know, when you have to humble yourself\n\n772\n00:34:33.240 --> 00:34:36.240\nto be a servant leader and, you know,\n\n773\n00:34:36.240 --> 00:34:37.800\nwhat if I should give people on,\n\n774\n00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.000\njust how to keep the ego out of it where, you know,\n\n775\n00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:46.840\nso many times, you know, leaders, they want the ball.\n\n776\n00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:50.040\nYou know, when their real job is to actually coach,\n\n777\n00:34:50.040 --> 00:34:52.800\nyou know, you know, not take the shot, you know.\n\n778\n00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:55.880\nBut a lot of leaders, they want that ball.\n\n779\n00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:59.120\nThey want to get the credit for taking the shot.\n\n780\n00:34:59.120 --> 00:35:02.920\nI mean, what coaching can you give others on that?\n\n781\n00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:04.240\n- You know, David, I guess that gets to be\n\n782\n00:35:04.240 --> 00:35:05.240\nsuch a personal thing.\n\n783\n00:35:05.240 --> 00:35:09.880\nI look at it and you sort of say, \"Well, why am I a leader?\n\n784\n00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:14.800\n\"And why do I exist if you're, if a head coach is your muse\n\n785\n00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:18.240\n\"and you think about, \"Oh yes, I want to be the head coach\n\n786\n00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:21.120\n\"and keep the attention on my team.\"\n\n787\n00:35:21.120 --> 00:35:23.960\nI think a second thing that you and I both know is\n\n788\n00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.640\nthere's nothing like getting your ass kicked really badly.\n\n789\n00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:28.160\n(laughing)\n\n790\n00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:31.920\nThe ego, you know, you can have a great season\n\n791\n00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.240\nwhere you win, but you can also have some losing seasons\n\n792\n00:35:34.240 --> 00:35:36.960\nand losing streaks and losing games, or you're the goat,\n\n793\n00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:37.800\nthe bad goat.\n\n794\n00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:42.160\nAnd those are humbly experiences,\n\n795\n00:35:42.160 --> 00:35:43.880\nbut those are also, they remind us\n\n796\n00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:46.080\nthat it actually is far more to do about us.\n\n797\n00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:49.800\nOur floor, far less to do about us\n\n798\n00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.920\nand far more to do about the preparation,\n\n799\n00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:56.120\nabout luck, about circumstance.\n\n800\n00:35:56.120 --> 00:36:00.440\nAnd so anyone that feels like the ego started\n\n801\n00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:03.360\nto creep in, just remember there's, you know,\n\n802\n00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:05.720\nat some point, something's going to happen\n\n803\n00:36:05.720 --> 00:36:08.040\nand you're going to fall flat on your face.\n\n804\n00:36:08.040 --> 00:36:12.360\nYour day's coming, and probably quite visibly.\n\n805\n00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:13.640\nAnd that's okay too, by the way,\n\n806\n00:36:13.640 --> 00:36:15.080\nthose are great learning experiences.\n\n807\n00:36:15.080 --> 00:36:16.360\nThey're painful learning experiences,\n\n808\n00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:17.760\nbut they're important ones.\n\n809\n00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:21.660\nAnd then, you know, the last thing I just say is,\n\n810\n00:36:21.660 --> 00:36:26.560\nask yourself, if you're a young leader, ask yourself,\n\n811\n00:36:26.560 --> 00:36:29.360\nwho are the leaders you wanted to follow?\n\n812\n00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:34.240\nYou wanted to, that inspired you, odds are\n\n813\n00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:37.240\nthat in many cases it's going to be a servant leader,\n\n814\n00:36:37.240 --> 00:36:39.640\nsomeone to put your interest before theirs,\n\n815\n00:36:39.640 --> 00:36:41.200\nsomeone that you trusted.\n\n816\n00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:43.660\nAnd I would just make the observation over time.\n\n817\n00:36:43.660 --> 00:36:47.200\nI think the most talented people,\n\n818\n00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:51.440\nthe greatest talent, follow authentic leaders\n\n819\n00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:55.240\nand servant leaders more than they follow\n\n820\n00:36:55.240 --> 00:36:57.160\nself-centered leaders.\n\n821\n00:36:57.160 --> 00:36:59.840\nAnd so it's also just, I heard Colin Powell,\n\n822\n00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.280\nI'll never forget, I was lucky to get a chance\n\n823\n00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:06.080\nto interact with him multiple times.\n\n824\n00:37:06.080 --> 00:37:09.560\nAnd he used to say, he used to say this publicly,\n\n825\n00:37:09.560 --> 00:37:12.040\nI remember saying it to me, I was at eBay at the time,\n\n826\n00:37:12.040 --> 00:37:14.640\nhe said, \"John, it's not about leadership.\n\n827\n00:37:14.640 --> 00:37:16.240\n\"It's about followership.\n\n828\n00:37:16.240 --> 00:37:18.200\n\"Your job's to build followership.\"\n\n829\n00:37:18.200 --> 00:37:21.440\nSo when you think about it that way,\n\n830\n00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:23.440\nall of a sudden the focus is not you, the leader.\n\n831\n00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:26.160\nThat was his way of talking about servant leader, right?\n\n832\n00:37:26.160 --> 00:37:29.480\nIt's not about you, it's about followership\n\n833\n00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.480\nand how you enlist in his case the troops\n\n834\n00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.280\nor the people of the state department to follow.\n\n835\n00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:40.360\nAnd almost always that's by values-based,\n\n836\n00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:42.720\nprinciples-based servant leadership.\n\n837\n00:37:42.720 --> 00:37:44.560\n- I want to shift gears a bit, John,\n\n838\n00:37:44.560 --> 00:37:47.560\nand I want to take you back, you know,\n\n839\n00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:49.160\nwhat's the story from your childhood\n\n840\n00:37:49.160 --> 00:37:51.600\nthat shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n841\n00:37:51.600 --> 00:37:54.160\n- You know, I'd say two things, David, come to mind.\n\n842\n00:37:54.160 --> 00:37:57.960\nOne is my father had a profound impact on me.\n\n843\n00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:01.160\nI didn't think of my father as a role model,\n\n844\n00:38:01.160 --> 00:38:03.840\nbut I now realize he was in some ways.\n\n845\n00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:08.280\nHe was a senior person, a price-water house in Chicago.\n\n846\n00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:09.800\nHe spent his entire career there,\n\n847\n00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:11.880\nwas ended up being one of the top two or three people\n\n848\n00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:13.280\nin the firm.\n\n849\n00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.760\nAnd a couple of things I realized in hindsight,\n\n850\n00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:18.760\nI learned from my father.\n\n851\n00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:21.520\nHe used to take my sister, two sisters,\n\n852\n00:38:21.520 --> 00:38:23.800\none that's two years younger, one that's 12.\n\n853\n00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:25.480\nThe sister is two years younger.\n\n854\n00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:28.480\nAnd he would take us downtown to his office\n\n855\n00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:30.960\nin downtown Chicago on a weekend.\n\n856\n00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.320\nWe're here to do some work.\n\n857\n00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.320\nAnd we'd play in the typewriters back in the days\n\n858\n00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.400\nwhere typewriters have hot chocolate.\n\n859\n00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:38.440\nThis would have been the late '60s.\n\n860\n00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:41.360\nAnd I remember we'd pull into the parking lot,\n\n861\n00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:44.000\nparking garage under the building.\n\n862\n00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:46.680\nAnd he'd say to the weekend parking attendant,\n\n863\n00:38:46.680 --> 00:38:48.400\n\"Hey, Billy, how you doing?\n\n864\n00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:49.600\nHow's the family?\"\n\n865\n00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:54.120\nWe'd write up the escalator and the guy would light up,\n\n866\n00:38:54.120 --> 00:38:56.280\nMr. E. Travel, Mr. D.\n\n867\n00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:58.400\nThere'd be the receptionist, you know,\n\n868\n00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:03.160\n\"Hey, Marge, your husband, is he out of the hospital yet?\n\n869\n00:39:03.160 --> 00:39:05.160\nWhy don't you know I've been thinking of him?\"\n\n870\n00:39:05.160 --> 00:39:07.560\nAnd my dad just had this way.\n\n871\n00:39:07.560 --> 00:39:10.440\nHe treated, oh, then we'd be walking on the hallway\n\n872\n00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.080\nand it'd be the governor of Illinois, Governor Ogilby.\n\n873\n00:39:13.080 --> 00:39:15.440\nYou'd say, \"Governor, come meet my children.\"\n\n874\n00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.920\nAnd my dad treated the parking lot attendant\n\n875\n00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.200\nthe same way he treated the governor.\n\n876\n00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:21.320\nHe treated everyone the same.\n\n877\n00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:22.920\nAnd I didn't notice it.\n\n878\n00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.120\nI wasn't conscious of this as a child,\n\n879\n00:39:25.120 --> 00:39:27.880\nbut people would light up when they saw him\n\n880\n00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.880\nbecause they saw that he was treating them.\n\n881\n00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.120\nHe treated everyone with the same kind of attention\n\n882\n00:39:34.120 --> 00:39:37.200\nand kindness and that brought the best out of them.\n\n883\n00:39:37.200 --> 00:39:39.720\nAnd then I would say the second thing I learned\n\n884\n00:39:39.720 --> 00:39:42.600\nfrom my dad is he didn't, it's to what we talked\n\n885\n00:39:42.600 --> 00:39:43.440\nabout earlier.\n\n886\n00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.120\nHe didn't have the word \"I\" in his vocabulary.\n\n887\n00:39:46.120 --> 00:39:48.520\nAnd so we'd go to some dinner or whatever\n\n888\n00:39:48.520 --> 00:39:50.800\nand I'd be the young person that was brought at the table.\n\n889\n00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.440\nHe'd bring me along to learn.\n\n890\n00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.840\nAnd he would immediately launch in to tell me about yourself,\n\n891\n00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:56.760\nwhat's going on over here?\n\n892\n00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.560\nDavid, you've got this gift too, right?\n\n893\n00:39:58.560 --> 00:40:01.880\nIt's always asking curious questions about others\n\n894\n00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:04.880\nand the focus is on the other people, never on him.\n\n895\n00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:09.160\nAnd I didn't, as I said, it wasn't until many years later\n\n896\n00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:12.600\nthat I heard the phrase \"servant leadership.\"\n\n897\n00:40:12.600 --> 00:40:16.040\nBut in many ways, my dad, I had this beautiful role model\n\n898\n00:40:16.040 --> 00:40:18.080\nof what a servant leader was.\n\n899\n00:40:18.080 --> 00:40:19.280\nThat's awesome.\n\n900\n00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:21.800\nYou know, John, when I was doing my research,\n\n901\n00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.560\nand I obviously known a little bit about your career,\n\n902\n00:40:24.560 --> 00:40:25.960\nyou know, it's pretty decorated.\n\n903\n00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:27.000\nBut you know, I thought about it.\n\n904\n00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.280\nI don't know if there's anybody that's really made\n\n905\n00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.720\na bigger dent across more significant categories\n\n906\n00:40:34.720 --> 00:40:37.720\nin business, in the history of business than you.\n\n907\n00:40:37.720 --> 00:40:41.040\nI mean, you've really, really covered the gamut\n\n908\n00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:42.640\nof great companies.\n\n909\n00:40:42.640 --> 00:40:45.520\nAnd I thought it'd be interesting if I just went\n\n910\n00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:47.040\nthrough some of your experiences\n\n911\n00:40:47.040 --> 00:40:49.520\nand just got your single biggest leadership lesson\n\n912\n00:40:49.520 --> 00:40:52.880\nfrom the places that you had such a huge impact on.\n\n913\n00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.880\nAnd, you know, you stepped into the CO role at eBay\n\n914\n00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.280\nto turn that business around.\n\n915\n00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.600\nTell us a story that would represent\n\n916\n00:41:02.600 --> 00:41:05.480\nthe biggest leadership lesson you got out of eBay.\n\n917\n00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:07.640\n- Oh, so many, David, so many.\n\n918\n00:41:07.640 --> 00:41:09.360\nI learned a ton from Meg Whitman.\n\n919\n00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.560\nI got to work for Meg for a couple of years\n\n920\n00:41:11.560 --> 00:41:15.080\nbefore becoming CEO, and I learned about courage,\n\n921\n00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:18.280\nMeg had courage, still does date,\n\n922\n00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.600\ncourage about making hard decisions,\n\n923\n00:41:20.600 --> 00:41:23.120\nbold decisions about owning up to mistakes.\n\n924\n00:41:23.120 --> 00:41:27.160\nI think, you know, the lesson that I may have been\n\n925\n00:41:27.160 --> 00:41:31.480\nthe most stayed with me the most around eBay\n\n926\n00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:36.480\nwas just the role adversity plays in our lives.\n\n927\n00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:41.200\nAnd eBay, you know, for me was a very stressful time\n\n928\n00:41:41.200 --> 00:41:42.160\nin the beginning of it.\n\n929\n00:41:42.160 --> 00:41:45.240\nIt was very, was a turnaround.\n\n930\n00:41:45.240 --> 00:41:47.560\nI was getting skewered in the media\n\n931\n00:41:47.560 --> 00:41:49.240\nand there was a media back then.\n\n932\n00:41:49.240 --> 00:41:53.200\nI was, I'll never forget, it was a first-year glass door\n\n933\n00:41:53.200 --> 00:41:55.880\ncame out in the New York Times business section.\n\n934\n00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.760\nIt had lowest rated CEO in Silicon Valley.\n\n935\n00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.080\nIt had my picture and that's back\n\n936\n00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:03.800\nwhen people actually read the newspaper.\n\n937\n00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:05.800\n- Well, I hope it was a good picture anyway.\n\n938\n00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:07.280\n(laughing)\n\n939\n00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:09.040\nIt was not, you know, I've run into people\n\n940\n00:42:09.040 --> 00:42:11.480\nin the grocery store and they like go into the other aisle\n\n941\n00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:14.200\nbecause, you know, that happens is what they read about you\n\n942\n00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:15.440\nis what they think's your reality.\n\n943\n00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:19.920\nBut I, you know, I came to the realization\n\n944\n00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.720\nI had some friends help me do this\n\n945\n00:42:21.720 --> 00:42:24.240\nand frankly my therapist helped me do this.\n\n946\n00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:27.480\nOften moments of adversity, faces of adversity\n\n947\n00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.560\nare often the phases that in hindsight\n\n948\n00:42:29.560 --> 00:42:33.520\nwe look back on with most fondness and pride.\n\n949\n00:42:33.520 --> 00:42:36.080\nAnd she had me think about what were the things\n\n950\n00:42:36.080 --> 00:42:37.360\nin my career when I look back\n\n951\n00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:39.600\nthat I was most proud of in hindsight\n\n952\n00:42:39.600 --> 00:42:42.360\nand what were the things that, and I look back in my life\n\n953\n00:42:42.360 --> 00:42:45.680\nin my personal life that I was most proud of in hindsight.\n\n954\n00:42:45.680 --> 00:42:48.320\nAnd she said, \"Was that when things were going really well, John?\"\n\n955\n00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:49.720\nI actually think, \"No.\"\n\n956\n00:42:49.720 --> 00:42:51.440\nWere those periods of adversity?\n\n957\n00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:53.600\nAnd I said, \"Yeah.\"\n\n958\n00:42:53.600 --> 00:42:57.760\nShe said, \"So just remember that it's periods of adversity\n\n959\n00:42:57.760 --> 00:42:59.680\n\"to give you the opportunity\n\n960\n00:42:59.680 --> 00:43:03.040\n\"to have the most meaningful moments\n\n961\n00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:06.040\n\"and the moments you in hindsight are most proud of.\"\n\n962\n00:43:06.040 --> 00:43:08.960\nAnd it was a powerful shift for me\n\n963\n00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:11.560\n'cause I hate adversity.\n\n964\n00:43:11.560 --> 00:43:14.400\nLike, I want it to all be going well.\n\n965\n00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.240\nI want people to go long.\n\n966\n00:43:16.240 --> 00:43:17.840\nAnd I was living in this world.\n\n967\n00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:21.520\nI was in fearful of future adversity.\n\n968\n00:43:21.520 --> 00:43:22.840\nAnd when I was in adversity,\n\n969\n00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:25.240\nI was so anxious to get out of it.\n\n970\n00:43:25.240 --> 00:43:27.720\nAnd it helped me realize that that's just not\n\n971\n00:43:27.720 --> 00:43:29.560\na sustainable model.\n\n972\n00:43:29.560 --> 00:43:32.560\nAnd so what I learned at eBay and I still try to do today\n\n973\n00:43:32.560 --> 00:43:34.840\nis I don't like adversity.\n\n974\n00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:36.480\nI don't want adversity.\n\n975\n00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:39.280\nNo one does, but adversity is a fact of life.\n\n976\n00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:40.840\nIt's a fact of life in our personal life.\n\n977\n00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:42.400\nYou and I have talked about that.\n\n978\n00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:45.240\nIt's a fact of life in our professional lives.\n\n979\n00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:48.640\nAnd so now when adversity avails itself,\n\n980\n00:43:48.640 --> 00:43:51.800\nI just say to myself, all right, I don't like this,\n\n981\n00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.360\nbut all I can do is put one foot in front of the other\n\n982\n00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:57.640\nand carry myself in a way\n\n983\n00:43:57.640 --> 00:44:00.320\nthat I will be proud of in hindsight.\n\n984\n00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.320\nI don't know how it's gonna turn out.\n\n985\n00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:04.440\nI don't know when it's gonna change,\n\n986\n00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:07.920\nbut I do know I can make myself proud\n\n987\n00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.240\nby carrying myself in the best possible way\n\n988\n00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:12.040\nthrough this difficult circumstance.\n\n989\n00:44:12.040 --> 00:44:13.560\nAnd eBay really taught me that.\n\n990\n00:44:13.560 --> 00:44:15.000\n- That's a great learning.\n\n991\n00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.760\nAnd you've also been the chairman of PayPal\n\n992\n00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:18.480\nfor almost a decade.\n\n993\n00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:20.600\nWhat's the key leadership story there?\n\n994\n00:44:20.600 --> 00:44:23.080\n- PayPal was one part consumer product,\n\n995\n00:44:23.080 --> 00:44:25.920\none part payments, one part technology,\n\n996\n00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:27.920\none part consumer product.\n\n997\n00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:30.440\nAnd it was a very ill-defined market.\n\n998\n00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:32.920\nAnd so you always had to be doing,\n\n999\n00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:36.440\nwe did these constant gameboarding,\n\n1000\n00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:39.480\nwhat we call gameboarding process.\n\n1001\n00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.920\nA good friend, a mutual good friend of ours, Dave Dorman,\n\n1002\n00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:45.120\nwas on this board and he's now chair of the board.\n\n1003\n00:44:45.120 --> 00:44:46.560\nAnd our annual board retreats,\n\n1004\n00:44:46.560 --> 00:44:48.080\nI was chair for a number of years,\n\n1005\n00:44:48.080 --> 00:44:51.000\nwe would do gameboarding and industry gameboarding.\n\n1006\n00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.080\n'Cause you couldn't predict what was gonna happen\n\n1007\n00:44:54.080 --> 00:44:55.480\nexactly when.\n\n1008\n00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:57.680\nSo you had to think through,\n\n1009\n00:44:57.680 --> 00:45:00.560\nit was the ultimate in having a dynamic approach\n\n1010\n00:45:00.560 --> 00:45:04.280\nto strategy and outside in view of the market\n\n1011\n00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:05.920\nand how the industry chessboard,\n\n1012\n00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.600\nI guess that's what we used to call it, industry chessboard.\n\n1013\n00:45:08.600 --> 00:45:13.600\nAnd that, you could never be too confident\n\n1014\n00:45:13.600 --> 00:45:15.200\nin your short-term success.\n\n1015\n00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:18.120\n'Cause we'd have these periods of intense success,\n\n1016\n00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:21.040\nwe'd get a network effect, things would happen.\n\n1017\n00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:23.880\nBut you always had to be conscious\n\n1018\n00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:25.520\nthat you can be getting disrupted\n\n1019\n00:45:25.520 --> 00:45:27.280\nwhile you're having success.\n\n1020\n00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:29.880\n- Yeah, that's right, great lesson.\n\n1021\n00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:31.560\nHow about service now?\n\n1022\n00:45:31.560 --> 00:45:33.760\n- If I was learning one thing for a service now,\n\n1023\n00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:35.680\nthere's nothing like a good tailwind.\n\n1024\n00:45:35.680 --> 00:45:38.120\n(both laughing)\n\n1025\n00:45:38.120 --> 00:45:40.080\nWith the old phrase, when a good manager\n\n1026\n00:45:40.080 --> 00:45:42.800\nmeets a bad business, a bad business wins every time,\n\n1027\n00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:44.960\nwhen a mediocre manager meets a good business,\n\n1028\n00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:46.600\na good business wins every time.\n\n1029\n00:45:46.600 --> 00:45:49.360\n(both laughing)\n\n1030\n00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:51.640\nService now and Fred Luddy, the founder,\n\n1031\n00:45:51.640 --> 00:45:55.360\ndeserves credit for this and my predecessor, Frank Slootman.\n\n1032\n00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:57.080\nAnd now my successor, Bill McDermott,\n\n1033\n00:45:57.080 --> 00:45:58.120\nit's just done amazing things.\n\n1034\n00:45:58.120 --> 00:46:03.120\nBut it's a born-in-the-cloud platform\n\n1035\n00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:05.840\nthat just had unfair advantages\n\n1036\n00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.080\nby being a modern technology platform.\n\n1037\n00:46:09.080 --> 00:46:11.080\nNow, I think we did a good job\n\n1038\n00:46:11.080 --> 00:46:14.400\nof not growing too fast,\n\n1039\n00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:16.520\nnot of Fred, the founder,\n\n1040\n00:46:16.520 --> 00:46:20.040\nFred Luddy really wanted to build an enduring company.\n\n1041\n00:46:20.040 --> 00:46:24.080\nAnd so making sure that customer success\n\n1042\n00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:26.120\nand customers getting real results\n\n1043\n00:46:26.120 --> 00:46:28.720\nand that we were taking care of our customers,\n\n1044\n00:46:28.720 --> 00:46:31.240\nnot because we were the hot technology\n\n1045\n00:46:31.240 --> 00:46:32.680\nthat everyone needed,\n\n1046\n00:46:32.680 --> 00:46:36.000\nbut because our technology had the power\n\n1047\n00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.600\nof helping them achieve tangible value.\n\n1048\n00:46:39.600 --> 00:46:42.000\nI learned that.\n\n1049\n00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:45.120\nAnd then, you know, I had another leadership lesson there,\n\n1050\n00:46:45.120 --> 00:46:47.480\nDavid, that was totally unanticipated.\n\n1051\n00:46:47.480 --> 00:46:50.440\nI, my direct report team,\n\n1052\n00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:53.320\nI inherited three or four of them that had been there\n\n1053\n00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:58.320\nfor the long term, at least in service now language.\n\n1054\n00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:00.480\nI had two or three of them that joined a year\n\n1055\n00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:02.920\nbefore I got there and then I hired two or three.\n\n1056\n00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:04.280\nAnd we did this offsite\n\n1057\n00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:06.640\nthat was gonna be a storming and norming offsite\n\n1058\n00:47:06.640 --> 00:47:08.080\nto build team.\n\n1059\n00:47:08.080 --> 00:47:09.760\nAnd I said, I really wanna develop a set\n\n1060\n00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:14.280\nof operating principles or collective operating principles.\n\n1061\n00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.320\nAnd I had a facilitator there and we had a break.\n\n1062\n00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:19.880\nAnd the facilitator, we come back to have the break,\n\n1063\n00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:23.200\nfacilitator says, \"John, the team would like you to leave.\"\n\n1064\n00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:24.800\nAnd I'm like, what?\n\n1065\n00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:27.080\nLike, I'm like, I'd like you to leave.\n\n1066\n00:47:27.080 --> 00:47:31.760\nAnd so I leave the room and I'm out for three hours.\n\n1067\n00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:34.580\nI'm like, Jesus, I think there's a coup going on.\n\n1068\n00:47:34.580 --> 00:47:38.760\nAnd I come back in and the team said,\n\n1069\n00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.200\nwe have built a social contract with each other.\n\n1070\n00:47:42.200 --> 00:47:44.240\nWe wanna share it with you.\n\n1071\n00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:46.200\nAnd it was important to us that we didn't do this\n\n1072\n00:47:46.200 --> 00:47:47.560\nbecause of you or for you.\n\n1073\n00:47:47.560 --> 00:47:49.440\nThis is for us.\n\n1074\n00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.200\nAnd the first phrase of their social contract\n\n1075\n00:47:52.200 --> 00:47:56.760\nis we commit to work East West before we go North-South,\n\n1076\n00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:59.400\nwhich is to say, we're not gonna run to you, John,\n\n1077\n00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:00.600\nto fix all of our problems.\n\n1078\n00:48:00.600 --> 00:48:03.400\nWe commit to try to work with each other.\n\n1079\n00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:05.240\nWe commit to have each other's back.\n\n1080\n00:48:05.240 --> 00:48:07.120\nWe'll debate freely when we're in the room,\n\n1081\n00:48:07.120 --> 00:48:09.280\nsupport each other when we're out of the room.\n\n1082\n00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:12.440\nAnd there were seven or eight of statements\n\n1083\n00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:14.320\nin the social contract.\n\n1084\n00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:17.120\nThey said, we want you to know this is what we're signing up to.\n\n1085\n00:48:17.120 --> 00:48:19.920\nAnd next week at our all hands to the company,\n\n1086\n00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:23.480\nwe're gonna tell the entire company they can hold us accountable\n\n1087\n00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:25.440\nfor the social contract.\n\n1088\n00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:29.600\nAnd it was so much more powerful than anything\n\n1089\n00:48:29.600 --> 00:48:33.000\nthat I could have helped create or encouraged that they create.\n\n1090\n00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:37.320\nIt was a true case in a team self-organizing\n\n1091\n00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:40.680\nand doing it in a way where it had real grit\n\n1092\n00:48:40.680 --> 00:48:42.280\nin meaning for them.\n\n1093\n00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.000\n- Well, I love that and I love the idea of going East West\n\n1094\n00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.800\nbefore you go North, I think that's fantastic, you know.\n\n1095\n00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:49.480\nAnd how about Nike?\n\n1096\n00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:51.520\n- Oh, I learned so many things at Nike, David.\n\n1097\n00:48:51.520 --> 00:48:54.480\nI, you know, obviously I got exposed\n\n1098\n00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:57.320\nto one of the greatest brands in the world\n\n1099\n00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:59.920\nand how the company thought about brand\n\n1100\n00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:03.120\nand advanced the brand.\n\n1101\n00:49:03.120 --> 00:49:06.600\nAnd by the way, kept the brand contemporary.\n\n1102\n00:49:06.600 --> 00:49:09.200\nThat's one of the, I think, real hidden secrets of Nike.\n\n1103\n00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:13.840\nIt's still a young brand and it's 53rd or 54th,\n\n1104\n00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:15.560\nmaybe it's 55th year now.\n\n1105\n00:49:15.560 --> 00:49:17.960\nI learned a lot about innovation\n\n1106\n00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:20.080\nin just a company that really puts innovation\n\n1107\n00:49:20.080 --> 00:49:21.480\nin front and center.\n\n1108\n00:49:21.480 --> 00:49:23.760\nI also learned a lot personally through COVID,\n\n1109\n00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:25.200\nthrough leadership.\n\n1110\n00:49:25.200 --> 00:49:27.880\nAnd, you know, I learned a lot in a very humbling way.\n\n1111\n00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.440\nI, you know, I got my butt kicked toward the end\n\n1112\n00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:35.440\nand both very publicly and also, you know,\n\n1113\n00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:38.960\nlearning where I, I, you know,\n\n1114\n00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:40.920\nlost the locker room a little bit.\n\n1115\n00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:45.840\nAnd so the, and had to just sort of confront that.\n\n1116\n00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:48.880\nAnd, you know, we did certain things very, very well.\n\n1117\n00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:52.680\nAnd then toward the end, our results weren't what they needed\n\n1118\n00:49:52.680 --> 00:49:56.560\nto be and we weren't living up to our promises.\n\n1119\n00:49:56.560 --> 00:49:59.720\nAnd frankly, it was time for me to move on.\n\n1120\n00:49:59.720 --> 00:50:02.680\nAnd so that was a, you know, I learned a lot\n\n1121\n00:50:02.680 --> 00:50:05.520\nthrough that experience, but personally and professionally.\n\n1122\n00:50:05.520 --> 00:50:07.120\n- Where did you, once you learned the ability\n\n1123\n00:50:07.120 --> 00:50:11.040\nto do just what you did, which was be vulnerable?\n\n1124\n00:50:11.040 --> 00:50:14.200\nYou know, and be so open about that experience like that.\n\n1125\n00:50:14.200 --> 00:50:17.120\nAnd, you know, I mean, that makes me want to get,\n\n1126\n00:50:17.120 --> 00:50:18.680\nget on the John Donahoe team.\n\n1127\n00:50:18.680 --> 00:50:21.640\nI mean, but, you know, people talk about the power\n\n1128\n00:50:21.640 --> 00:50:23.720\nof being vulnerable and open all the time,\n\n1129\n00:50:23.720 --> 00:50:24.960\nthat you don't see it.\n\n1130\n00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:26.640\n- I've never thought of it that way.\n\n1131\n00:50:26.640 --> 00:50:30.960\nI've tried to, you know, be, always try to be honest.\n\n1132\n00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:33.520\nMy, I think my father is that way.\n\n1133\n00:50:33.520 --> 00:50:36.160\nIt's what a good coach does,\n\n1134\n00:50:36.160 --> 00:50:37.440\nwhat worked well in the first half\n\n1135\n00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:39.080\nand what do we need to fix.\n\n1136\n00:50:39.080 --> 00:50:42.840\nAnd then, I don't know, David, I'll tell you a story\n\n1137\n00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:43.680\nthat comes to mind.\n\n1138\n00:50:43.680 --> 00:50:47.360\nWhen I was, right after I was named CEO of eBay,\n\n1139\n00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:50.760\nwe were at the beginning of the turnaround.\n\n1140\n00:50:50.760 --> 00:50:54.400\nI announced on my first day as CEO, this is a turnaround.\n\n1141\n00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:56.000\nAnd everyone knew it to be true,\n\n1142\n00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.120\nbut everyone hated that word.\n\n1143\n00:50:58.120 --> 00:51:00.320\nThe employees hated that word in Silicon Valley.\n\n1144\n00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:02.280\nNo one wanted to be called to turn around.\n\n1145\n00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:08.920\nAnd we had our, even our, I'll call them customers.\n\n1146\n00:51:08.920 --> 00:51:13.240\nWe had this, once a year we'd have this conference,\n\n1147\n00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:17.320\nit was called eBay Live, where 25,000 eBay sellers\n\n1148\n00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:18.160\nwould come together.\n\n1149\n00:51:18.160 --> 00:51:22.360\nThis would have been in 2008, spring of 2008.\n\n1150\n00:51:22.360 --> 00:51:26.680\n20,000 eBay sellers come together and share experience.\n\n1151\n00:51:26.680 --> 00:51:29.640\nAnd the eBay security team says,\n\n1152\n00:51:29.640 --> 00:51:33.080\nand it was at McCormick Place in Chicago, that particular year.\n\n1153\n00:51:33.080 --> 00:51:34.640\nAnd the eBay security team comes to me and says,\n\n1154\n00:51:34.640 --> 00:51:36.320\nI don't think we can let you get up on stage\n\n1155\n00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:38.080\n'cause they're so angry at you.\n\n1156\n00:51:38.080 --> 00:51:39.480\n'Cause we'd announce some changes\n\n1157\n00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:41.760\nthat were for the good of the community.\n\n1158\n00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:44.080\nAnd I said, no, I have to stand up in front of them.\n\n1159\n00:51:44.080 --> 00:51:45.680\nAnd by the way, my parents are gonna be there.\n\n1160\n00:51:45.680 --> 00:51:47.040\nI grew up in Chicago.\n\n1161\n00:51:47.040 --> 00:51:49.920\nSo I've fly to Chicago, I land.\n\n1162\n00:51:49.920 --> 00:51:52.800\nAnd the head of comms tells me you gotta check YouTube\n\n1163\n00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:55.160\nbecause one of the eBay sellers\n\n1164\n00:51:55.160 --> 00:51:57.440\nthreatened one of our employees at registration.\n\n1165\n00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:01.280\nLike, uh-oh, so I opened up my laptop.\n\n1166\n00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:04.000\nI go to YouTube, which at that point never went to.\n\n1167\n00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.720\nI type in eBay.\n\n1168\n00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:09.680\nAnd the first 10 YouTube search results\n\n1169\n00:52:09.680 --> 00:52:11.120\nor hate videos about me.\n\n1170\n00:52:11.120 --> 00:52:16.040\nAnd the number one video was,\n\n1171\n00:52:16.040 --> 00:52:18.400\nand it had over 100,000 views,\n\n1172\n00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:23.080\nwas a eBay seller had taken scenes\n\n1173\n00:52:23.080 --> 00:52:24.920\nfrom the movie Schindler's List\n\n1174\n00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:29.280\nand had the scene of a German guard shooting\n\n1175\n00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:33.000\na Jewish prisoner and superimposed Donahoe\n\n1176\n00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:36.720\non the forehead of the German guard in eBay seller\n\n1177\n00:52:36.720 --> 00:52:40.840\non the chest of the Jewish prisoner.\n\n1178\n00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:43.600\nAnd I will never forget, talk about adversity,\n\n1179\n00:52:43.600 --> 00:52:45.760\nbeing in my hotel room that night,\n\n1180\n00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:48.880\njust thinking, holy cow, this is real.\n\n1181\n00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:51.280\nThis is how these people feel.\n\n1182\n00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.360\nThis is, yes, we're making changes\n\n1183\n00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.880\nthat are good for the community,\n\n1184\n00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:59.600\nbut it's painful for some to go through it.\n\n1185\n00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:02.120\nAnd the next morning I went on stage\n\n1186\n00:53:02.120 --> 00:53:03.560\nand I just shared that story.\n\n1187\n00:53:03.560 --> 00:53:06.000\nI just said, let me just tell you what I said.\n\n1188\n00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.040\nI almost don't know what to say.\n\n1189\n00:53:08.040 --> 00:53:11.480\nAnd what happens in these things?\n\n1190\n00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:13.280\nPeople are paying attention, whatever,\n\n1191\n00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:15.160\nbut I shared that story 'cause I didn't,\n\n1192\n00:53:15.160 --> 00:53:18.600\nI was literally speechless knowing what others say.\n\n1193\n00:53:18.600 --> 00:53:21.200\nAnd I said, I'm here for the good of the community.\n\n1194\n00:53:21.200 --> 00:53:25.280\nI think of myself as mayor, head coach, servant leader,\n\n1195\n00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.720\nand I care deeply about this community.\n\n1196\n00:53:27.720 --> 00:53:32.360\nAnd I want you to know I have a better understanding\n\n1197\n00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.800\nof your pain than I did 24 hours ago\n\n1198\n00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:38.840\nand you should know, I feel that pain as well.\n\n1199\n00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:42.120\nAnd it wasn't intentional.\n\n1200\n00:53:42.120 --> 00:53:46.400\nI didn't use vulnerability for an outcome or for,\n\n1201\n00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:48.840\nbut by being vulnerable, it began us,\n\n1202\n00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:52.400\nI think it was the beginning of a turning point of,\n\n1203\n00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:53.840\nall right, we're in this together.\n\n1204\n00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:57.920\nHow is human beings, can we move forward together?\n\n1205\n00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:59.800\n- That's a great story, you know.\n\n1206\n00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:03.200\nAnd one thing that I know you did at Nike,\n\n1207\n00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:04.840\nwhich was very, very challenging,\n\n1208\n00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:07.800\nis you led a digital transformation.\n\n1209\n00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.440\nYou took Nike into the digital world\n\n1210\n00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:13.160\nwhen they were falling behind there.\n\n1211\n00:54:13.160 --> 00:54:16.360\nYou know, what did you learn through that process\n\n1212\n00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:19.800\nthat would save other leaders some heartache\n\n1213\n00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:23.000\nas they try to deal with AI?\n\n1214\n00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:25.400\n- You know, David, it was a great learning experience\n\n1215\n00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:28.880\nand let me, I'm gonna frame good learnings\n\n1216\n00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:30.080\nand then bad learnings.\n\n1217\n00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:32.040\nThere are learnings of things that I would say\n\n1218\n00:54:32.040 --> 00:54:34.720\nwere good in hindsight and ones that were less good\n\n1219\n00:54:34.720 --> 00:54:35.560\nin hindsight.\n\n1220\n00:54:35.560 --> 00:54:38.840\nSo the principles I had coming in was,\n\n1221\n00:54:38.840 --> 00:54:40.320\nand I learned this at eBay,\n\n1222\n00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:43.120\nthat in today's world, consumers wanna get what they want,\n\n1223\n00:54:43.120 --> 00:54:45.080\nwhen they want it, how they want it.\n\n1224\n00:54:45.080 --> 00:54:46.360\nWe consume our media.\n\n1225\n00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:48.680\nIt's not no longer just about newspapers or magazines.\n\n1226\n00:54:48.680 --> 00:54:51.400\nWe want media or watching a TV or in a movie theater\n\n1227\n00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:55.080\nor on my iPad or on my laptop or I wanna get the media I want,\n\n1228\n00:54:55.080 --> 00:54:57.600\nwhen I want it, how I want it, where I want it.\n\n1229\n00:54:57.600 --> 00:55:01.000\nAnd commerce is that way.\n\n1230\n00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:03.000\nSo there's, I wanna get when I want it,\n\n1231\n00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:04.080\nhow I want it, where I want it.\n\n1232\n00:55:04.080 --> 00:55:06.120\nThere's no such thing as an online shopper\n\n1233\n00:55:06.120 --> 00:55:09.800\nversus a physical shopper versus a multi-brand shopper\n\n1234\n00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:11.520\nversus a model brand shopper.\n\n1235\n00:55:11.520 --> 00:55:16.160\nMost consumers, and I would say this about Nike,\n\n1236\n00:55:16.160 --> 00:55:19.440\nmy guess is, David, the last 10 things you bought in Nike,\n\n1237\n00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.160\nyou probably bought, you don't even remember,\n\n1238\n00:55:21.160 --> 00:55:24.040\ncouple online, maybe one or two in the Nike store\n\n1239\n00:55:24.040 --> 00:55:28.520\nin New York or one or two at a Dick's Sporting Goods.\n\n1240\n00:55:28.520 --> 00:55:31.160\nYou know, so one was the principle\n\n1241\n00:55:31.160 --> 00:55:32.800\nof giving consumers choice.\n\n1242\n00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:35.160\nThe second, and I think that is a good,\n\n1243\n00:55:35.160 --> 00:55:36.680\nwe should all keep that in mind\n\n1244\n00:55:36.680 --> 00:55:37.600\nin almost every business.\n\n1245\n00:55:37.600 --> 00:55:40.760\nConsumers want to be able to get what they want\n\n1246\n00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:42.080\nwhen they want it, how they want it.\n\n1247\n00:55:42.080 --> 00:55:43.880\nThe second is you have to know who your consumers are\n\n1248\n00:55:43.880 --> 00:55:45.120\nin this day and age.\n\n1249\n00:55:45.120 --> 00:55:47.480\nAnd we sold exclusively through retail,\n\n1250\n00:55:47.480 --> 00:55:48.440\nand when we sold to retail,\n\n1251\n00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:50.360\nwe didn't know who the consumer was.\n\n1252\n00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.960\nAnd that's dangerous in this day and age.\n\n1253\n00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.920\nBecause otherwise, others can come in\n\n1254\n00:55:54.920 --> 00:55:57.000\nand get more targeted, personalized offerings.\n\n1255\n00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:59.520\nAnd so part of the goal of going digital\n\n1256\n00:55:59.520 --> 00:56:01.880\nwas to establish their Nike account.\n\n1257\n00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:05.200\nAnd then we did shared membership with Dick's Sporting Goods,\n\n1258\n00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:09.440\nwith our JD Sports so that it wasn't,\n\n1259\n00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:12.840\nwe only learned about the consumers' choices\n\n1260\n00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:13.960\nwhen they came directly to us,\n\n1261\n00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:15.360\nbut we also can learn when they came\n\n1262\n00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:17.240\nthrough our third party partners\n\n1263\n00:56:17.240 --> 00:56:19.600\nand then gave the consumers choice.\n\n1264\n00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:21.120\nThose two things I think were right,\n\n1265\n00:56:21.120 --> 00:56:24.080\nand I think they continue to be important things.\n\n1266\n00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:27.720\nWhat I didn't get right is it was labeled as\n\n1267\n00:56:27.720 --> 00:56:30.680\nDonahoe's direct-to-consumer strategy,\n\n1268\n00:56:30.680 --> 00:56:34.480\nand the presumption was I didn't care about offline retail.\n\n1269\n00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:36.920\nI didn't care about a retail partners.\n\n1270\n00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:40.280\nAnd although I was in their boardrooms saying I did,\n\n1271\n00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:45.280\nthe perception and therefore became the reality\n\n1272\n00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:50.560\nis that Nike was less committed to the retail partners.\n\n1273\n00:56:50.560 --> 00:56:55.840\nAnd other competitors came in and took off the space,\n\n1274\n00:56:55.840 --> 00:56:57.880\nor I'm sorry, shelf space.\n\n1275\n00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.960\nAnd then I would say the second learning I had\n\n1276\n00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:05.600\nis I didn't understand that by saying\n\n1277\n00:57:05.600 --> 00:57:09.200\nwe were measuring our digital growth,\n\n1278\n00:57:09.200 --> 00:57:13.200\nwe were measuring our monobran owned stores growth internally,\n\n1279\n00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:17.040\nour organization was optimizing to that.\n\n1280\n00:57:17.040 --> 00:57:19.760\nAnd so we were actually making some\n\n1281\n00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:24.640\nnon-consumer-friendly choices to tilt the playing field.\n\n1282\n00:57:24.640 --> 00:57:26.880\nAnd it was a case where I didn't have enough\n\n1283\n00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:28.720\nof a balanced scorecard.\n\n1284\n00:57:28.720 --> 00:57:30.680\nAnd I wasn't fully cognizant,\n\n1285\n00:57:30.680 --> 00:57:33.040\nthat part of the reason our online sales,\n\n1286\n00:57:33.040 --> 00:57:34.680\ngrew as much as they did,\n\n1287\n00:57:34.680 --> 00:57:37.560\nwas because we were saving some of our most scarce inventory\n\n1288\n00:57:37.560 --> 00:57:39.800\nfor our own online only.\n\n1289\n00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:42.440\nI think that the importance of being balanced as a leader\n\n1290\n00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:46.400\nand thinking about, okay, great, we're going in this direction,\n\n1291\n00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:49.480\nhow might I or the organization be perceived\n\n1292\n00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:50.480\nas going too far?\n\n1293\n00:57:50.480 --> 00:57:54.000\nAnd what do I do to make sure we don't overdo it?\n\n1294\n00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:56.560\nWas a painful lesson.\n\n1295\n00:57:56.560 --> 00:57:58.760\nNow, the risk, of course, as it goes back now\n\n1296\n00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:01.120\nand says, oh, digital is bad, it's all about our partners.\n\n1297\n00:58:01.120 --> 00:58:02.040\nNeither are we true.\n\n1298\n00:58:02.040 --> 00:58:03.840\nConsumers, as I said earlier,\n\n1299\n00:58:03.840 --> 00:58:07.840\nconsumers, we want to be able to get our Nike's\n\n1300\n00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:10.920\nand the next purchase, however I want to get it.\n\n1301\n00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:13.400\nAnd I think my successor, Elliot Hill,\n\n1302\n00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:15.360\nis doing a great job of ensuring\n\n1303\n00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:18.120\nit gets back to more of a balanced marketplace.\n\n1304\n00:58:18.120 --> 00:58:19.520\n- So how do you think about that\n\n1305\n00:58:19.520 --> 00:58:21.400\nand the learning's there as it relates\n\n1306\n00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:23.480\nto how leaders should deal with AI\n\n1307\n00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:25.480\nand go forward there with their companies,\n\n1308\n00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:27.160\nor with their teams?\n\n1309\n00:58:27.160 --> 00:58:28.520\nYou know, a little bit similar.\n\n1310\n00:58:28.520 --> 00:58:30.400\nThe word AI is just a,\n\n1311\n00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:33.200\nI don't think it's that useful a word in this moment.\n\n1312\n00:58:33.200 --> 00:58:36.800\nIt promotes fear, everyone has a different definition.\n\n1313\n00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:38.920\nEveryone, the question is,\n\n1314\n00:58:38.920 --> 00:58:43.920\nwhere can technology enhance your customer experience?\n\n1315\n00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:47.000\nWhere can it enhance your employee experience?\n\n1316\n00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:49.800\nWhere can it enhance or shift your business model\n\n1317\n00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:51.760\nand your economics?\n\n1318\n00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:54.680\nAnd if you simply think of AI\n\n1319\n00:58:54.680 --> 00:58:57.880\nas another advanced in technology\n\n1320\n00:58:57.880 --> 00:58:59.240\nthat allows us to,\n\n1321\n00:58:59.240 --> 00:59:02.200\nit should be delivering more consumer friendly\n\n1322\n00:59:02.200 --> 00:59:04.720\nor if you're an enterprise business,\n\n1323\n00:59:04.720 --> 00:59:08.240\ncustomer friendly experience.\n\n1324\n00:59:08.240 --> 00:59:11.720\nWhether it's more self-help, it's faster service,\n\n1325\n00:59:11.720 --> 00:59:14.200\nwhatever the value is,\n\n1326\n00:59:14.200 --> 00:59:17.880\nmore enhanced value added, more information,\n\n1327\n00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:20.120\nfor your employees, it's the same thing.\n\n1328\n00:59:20.120 --> 00:59:24.120\nIt's, you know, I think about when I was at service now,\n\n1329\n00:59:24.120 --> 00:59:26.640\nwhat was then born in the cloud enterprise software,\n\n1330\n00:59:26.640 --> 00:59:28.960\nwe could deliver a better onboarding experience\n\n1331\n00:59:28.960 --> 00:59:31.040\nfor new employees or a better,\n\n1332\n00:59:31.040 --> 00:59:33.480\nask you a question, get an answer experience.\n\n1333\n00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:35.080\nWell, now with AI, you can just do it,\n\n1334\n00:59:35.080 --> 00:59:37.040\nit can be even better.\n\n1335\n00:59:37.040 --> 00:59:39.480\nDon't call it AI, it's simply,\n\n1336\n00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:43.160\nthe focus shouldn't be on the technology.\n\n1337\n00:59:43.160 --> 00:59:46.360\nThe focus should be on the customer experience,\n\n1338\n00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:50.640\nemployee experience, business model efficiency.\n\n1339\n00:59:50.640 --> 00:59:51.520\nMakes so much sense.\n\n1340\n00:59:51.520 --> 00:59:53.600\nAnd, you know, one of the things that you talk about\n\n1341\n00:59:53.600 --> 00:59:57.240\nis just the, what you call the inner journey of leadership.\n\n1342\n00:59:57.240 --> 01:00:00.000\nAnd, you know, what does that mean to you?\n\n1343\n01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:01.720\nI mean, where are you at on it?\n\n1344\n01:00:01.720 --> 01:00:03.720\nYour listeners don't know when we're,\n\n1345\n01:00:03.720 --> 01:00:06.520\nwhen we're together, that's what we spend most of our time on\n\n1346\n01:00:06.520 --> 01:00:08.200\nand you and I both know,\n\n1347\n01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:10.640\nit doesn't get talked about enough.\n\n1348\n01:00:10.640 --> 01:00:15.640\nIt's the, you know, how I can say life is hard\n\n1349\n01:00:15.640 --> 01:00:18.720\nand life is so beautiful.\n\n1350\n01:00:18.720 --> 01:00:22.040\nLeadership is hard, leadership is so beautiful.\n\n1351\n01:00:22.040 --> 01:00:23.880\nYeah, there's all the external stuff\n\n1352\n01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:26.200\nand all the external successes and failures\n\n1353\n01:00:26.200 --> 01:00:29.160\nand ups and downs and skills you want to build\n\n1354\n01:00:29.160 --> 01:00:30.800\nand capabilities you want to build.\n\n1355\n01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:35.760\nThere's also an inner dimension to life and to leadership.\n\n1356\n01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:39.400\nAnd for me at least, the inner journey,\n\n1357\n01:00:39.400 --> 01:00:42.360\nI think has been as important\n\n1358\n01:00:42.360 --> 01:00:47.360\nor maybe even more important to my success\n\n1359\n01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:53.080\nor my growth, my enjoyment.\n\n1360\n01:00:53.080 --> 01:00:55.640\nI'm still learning, I'm Catholic.\n\n1361\n01:00:55.640 --> 01:00:58.080\nSo learning how to enjoy the moment in the moment\n\n1362\n01:00:58.080 --> 01:01:00.080\nis still one of the things I'm working on.\n\n1363\n01:01:00.080 --> 01:01:02.080\n(laughing)\n\n1364\n01:01:02.080 --> 01:01:06.240\nAnd, but it is, and it's messy.\n\n1365\n01:01:06.240 --> 01:01:09.320\nI mean, I still to this day, I, you know,\n\n1366\n01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:11.600\nI've had different practices over time.\n\n1367\n01:01:11.600 --> 01:01:14.520\nI get up every morning and I did this this morning now.\n\n1368\n01:01:14.520 --> 01:01:18.600\nAnd my current morning practice is I take 10, 10 or 15 minutes\n\n1369\n01:01:18.600 --> 01:01:23.600\nand I have a little black book that I have a chair in our home\n\n1370\n01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:26.240\nwhere I sit and have my coffee, you know,\n\n1371\n01:01:26.240 --> 01:01:29.440\nquietly in the morning and I write three things in the book.\n\n1372\n01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:33.560\nI write, I try to check in with myself and say, okay,\n\n1373\n01:01:33.560 --> 01:01:35.560\nlet me just reflect on the last 24 hours.\n\n1374\n01:01:35.560 --> 01:01:37.360\nIs there anything that stood out?\n\n1375\n01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:39.400\nAnd I just, I just write it.\n\n1376\n01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:41.440\nDon't, not, not competent, you know,\n\n1377\n01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:44.320\noh, I had this interaction or wow,\n\n1378\n01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:46.400\nI had this tough meeting or wow,\n\n1379\n01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:49.680\nI had this surprisingly nice experience.\n\n1380\n01:01:49.680 --> 01:01:52.400\nAnd then, and then I write gratitude.\n\n1381\n01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:56.760\nWhat am I grateful about in the last 24 hours or?\n\n1382\n01:01:56.760 --> 01:02:00.000\nAnd I write out, you know, I'm grateful I had this experience.\n\n1383\n01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:01.640\nI'm grateful I get to be at Stanford,\n\n1384\n01:02:01.640 --> 01:02:04.520\nwhich is in what has been the most nourishing role\n\n1385\n01:02:04.520 --> 01:02:06.240\nI think I've had in the last 40 years.\n\n1386\n01:02:06.240 --> 01:02:08.400\nI'm grateful for my wife and I had\n\n1387\n01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:10.960\na really nice conversation last night.\n\n1388\n01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:13.520\nAnd then I write, what are my intentions for today?\n\n1389\n01:02:13.520 --> 01:02:18.160\nHow do I wanna, in my intentions, I said today I want to be,\n\n1390\n01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:20.520\nI get to be with David on his podcast,\n\n1391\n01:02:20.520 --> 01:02:21.840\nI wanna be present.\n\n1392\n01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.200\nI don't wanna be in my head, I wanna be present.\n\n1393\n01:02:25.200 --> 01:02:27.720\nI wanna be calm with my team.\n\n1394\n01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:31.760\nI wanna be positive 'cause I know I'm gonna be\n\n1395\n01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.880\nwith a couple of our teams that had heartbreaking losses\n\n1396\n01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:37.040\nover the last couple of days.\n\n1397\n01:02:37.040 --> 01:02:39.320\nAnd just each more, it's not fancy.\n\n1398\n01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:41.440\nIt's, you know, it's 10 minutes.\n\n1399\n01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:46.440\nAnd over time, I think I'm, it helps me be more grateful.\n\n1400\n01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:49.720\nYou know, it just helps,\n\n1401\n01:02:49.720 --> 01:02:51.280\nit's just a little bit of consciousness.\n\n1402\n01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:54.760\nIt's not every day, I have bad days.\n\n1403\n01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:56.400\n- Bad moments, yeah. - Bad moments, yeah.\n\n1404\n01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:58.640\nBut it, and that the inner journey,\n\n1405\n01:02:58.640 --> 01:03:00.640\nmaking friends with our shadow,\n\n1406\n01:03:00.640 --> 01:03:04.680\nmaking friends, whatever, with the inner parts of ourselves,\n\n1407\n01:03:04.680 --> 01:03:08.320\nI think is, and then the last thing I'll say about that,\n\n1408\n01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:10.880\nis it opens up the capacity for relationships, right?\n\n1409\n01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:12.360\nYou and I, right?\n\n1410\n01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:15.360\nWe had one round of golf where it took\n\n1411\n01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:19.760\na very nice relationship we had, we had a friendship,\n\n1412\n01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.880\nwhatever we had, all of a sudden,\n\n1413\n01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:25.480\nit was almost like we were soulmates four hours later.\n\n1414\n01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:27.600\nYou were incredibly open in sharing\n\n1415\n01:03:27.600 --> 01:03:30.320\nsome very vulnerable moments in your life.\n\n1416\n01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:33.960\nAnd you were, and I was so drawn in.\n\n1417\n01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:36.240\nAnd then I shared mine, and all of a sudden,\n\n1418\n01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:38.480\nour relationship went from,\n\n1419\n01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:40.000\nhey, David, what you shoot yesterday,\n\n1420\n01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:42.800\nhow's the weather to how you doing?\n\n1421\n01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:45.920\nAnd now every time I see you, my heart feels that.\n\n1422\n01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:49.280\nAnd my sense is a little bit vice versa.\n\n1423\n01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:50.200\n- Absolutely.\n\n1424\n01:03:50.200 --> 01:03:52.720\n- That that's part of our shared inner journey.\n\n1425\n01:03:52.720 --> 01:03:53.560\n- Yeah.\n\n1426\n01:03:53.560 --> 01:03:54.840\nCouldn't agree more, and I love it.\n\n1427\n01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:56.560\nAnd just hearing this conversation,\n\n1428\n01:03:56.560 --> 01:03:59.120\nhaving this conversation has meant so much to me.\n\n1429\n01:03:59.120 --> 01:04:01.600\nAnd I value it, and it's been a lot of fun.\n\n1430\n01:04:01.600 --> 01:04:02.800\nNow I might have a little more fun\n\n1431\n01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:04.320\nwith my lightning round of questions.\n\n1432\n01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:05.680\nAre you ready for this, John?\n\n1433\n01:04:05.680 --> 01:04:06.680\nOkay. - Great.\n\n1434\n01:04:06.680 --> 01:04:09.000\n- All right, the three words to best describe you.\n\n1435\n01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:13.680\n- I'm tall, I'm gray-haired, and I have a loud voice.\n\n1436\n01:04:13.680 --> 01:04:15.960\n- If you could be one person besides yourself,\n\n1437\n01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:17.200\nwho would it be?\n\n1438\n01:04:17.200 --> 01:04:21.800\n- Oh, it's gotta be Coach K, Tara, Phil Jackson,\n\n1439\n01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:23.480\nCoach Thompson.\n\n1440\n01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:25.320\n- What's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n1441\n01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:28.760\n- Politics, I don't know, not national politics,\n\n1442\n01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:33.760\nbut it's building, being part of a strong team\n\n1443\n01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:37.880\nis like so fulfilling and rewarding,\n\n1444\n01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:40.200\nand it's very hard to do.\n\n1445\n01:04:40.200 --> 01:04:44.040\nAnd so a pet peeve is when it seems so hard to build a team.\n\n1446\n01:04:44.040 --> 01:04:45.720\n- Who would play you in a movie?\n\n1447\n01:04:45.720 --> 01:04:48.560\n- Christian Bale, 'cause whatever character he gets into,\n\n1448\n01:04:48.560 --> 01:04:51.920\nit's like, wow, how did that guy get into character so well?\n\n1449\n01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:55.280\n- Who's the best athlete you've watched up close?\n\n1450\n01:04:55.280 --> 01:05:00.280\nMichael Kobe, LeBron, Steph, in the men's basketball lineage,\n\n1451\n01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:05.920\nwatching Caitlyn and Asha Wilson in women's basketball,\n\n1452\n01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:09.520\nwatching Serena and tennis, watching Tiger,\n\n1453\n01:05:09.520 --> 01:05:11.660\ntoday's Gotti Sheffler, Rory.\n\n1454\n01:05:11.660 --> 01:05:14.280\nThese exceptional athletes, what they do is just,\n\n1455\n01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:17.240\nand I'm just picking a few, it's just remarkable.\n\n1456\n01:05:17.240 --> 01:05:19.240\n- What's something you've been curious about lately\n\n1457\n01:05:19.240 --> 01:05:21.200\nthat has nothing to do with work?\n\n1458\n01:05:21.200 --> 01:05:24.600\n- I think part of what we talked about is AI\n\n1459\n01:05:24.600 --> 01:05:27.040\nand the impact on society,\n\n1460\n01:05:27.040 --> 01:05:30.800\nand how do we move from,\n\n1461\n01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:33.040\nit's provoking fear at the moment,\n\n1462\n01:05:33.040 --> 01:05:34.360\nam I gonna have my job?\n\n1463\n01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:36.680\nWill the B&E jobs, is it a good thing,\n\n1464\n01:05:36.680 --> 01:05:38.280\nor is it a bad thing?\n\n1465\n01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:41.640\nAnd how do we reframe it in a way that we have,\n\n1466\n01:05:41.640 --> 01:05:44.960\nthere's something called here at Stanford Human-Centered AI\n\n1467\n01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:46.720\nthat you start with the fact that we're humans,\n\n1468\n01:05:46.720 --> 01:05:51.240\nand now AI is a technology and a capability\n\n1469\n01:05:51.240 --> 01:05:55.040\nthat I think we need to be committed to make sure\n\n1470\n01:05:55.040 --> 01:05:59.480\nit's enhancing the quality of our lives and of life itself.\n\n1471\n01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:01.360\n- You know, besides that 15 minutes you spend\n\n1472\n01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:03.520\nin the morning with your black book,\n\n1473\n01:06:03.520 --> 01:06:06.280\nwhat's one thing that you do just for you?\n\n1474\n01:06:06.280 --> 01:06:09.480\n- You know, working out, I think, is sort of,\n\n1475\n01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:15.360\nthe only sport I can do anymore is really golf.\n\n1476\n01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:16.720\nI used to play basketball,\n\n1477\n01:06:16.720 --> 01:06:18.920\nbut I have no more cartilage in my knees.\n\n1478\n01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:23.920\nSo I enjoy working out and it's kind of for me.\n\n1479\n01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:27.760\nAnd then, you know, I would say my wife and I are\n\n1480\n01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:30.400\nenjoying watching, there's so much good,\n\n1481\n01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:32.680\nthe quality of content, these shows.\n\n1482\n01:06:32.680 --> 01:06:37.680\nSo, you know, we just finished watching the pit.\n\n1483\n01:06:37.680 --> 01:06:40.160\nIt's like, wow, this is really high quality,\n\n1484\n01:06:40.160 --> 01:06:41.800\nand I can lose myself in that.\n\n1485\n01:06:41.800 --> 01:06:45.600\nAnd so there's really high quality, you know,\n\n1486\n01:06:45.600 --> 01:06:47.320\ncontent being produced these days,\n\n1487\n01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:48.760\nand I think we enjoy that.\n\n1488\n01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:50.840\n- Besides your family and friends,\n\n1489\n01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:53.320\nwhat's your most prized possession?\n\n1490\n01:06:53.320 --> 01:06:55.160\n- I don't think there's anything that comes close\n\n1491\n01:06:55.160 --> 01:06:56.920\nto those two things.\n\n1492\n01:06:56.920 --> 01:06:57.760\n- That's fine.\n\n1493\n01:06:57.760 --> 01:07:00.840\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1494\n01:07:00.840 --> 01:07:01.680\n(chuckling)\n\n1495\n01:07:01.680 --> 01:07:04.040\n- But, hey, I'm probably only guy using radio,\n\n1496\n01:07:04.040 --> 01:07:07.960\nbut B, Ben Morrison is my favorite musician.\n\n1497\n01:07:07.960 --> 01:07:09.640\nI've probably seen him 15 times,\n\n1498\n01:07:09.640 --> 01:07:11.560\nincluding two, three weeks ago in San Francisco.\n\n1499\n01:07:11.560 --> 01:07:13.040\nHe's 80 years old.\n\n1500\n01:07:13.040 --> 01:07:14.720\nEvery time I listen to Ben Morrison's song,\n\n1501\n01:07:14.720 --> 01:07:16.600\nit evokes something in me.\n\n1502\n01:07:16.600 --> 01:07:19.360\n- What's something about you a few people would know?\n\n1503\n01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:24.360\n- Now, I would characterize myself as maybe more spiritual\n\n1504\n01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:27.360\nthan people I realize, and spiritual with a small less,\n\n1505\n01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:29.400\na little bit what we talked about,\n\n1506\n01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:34.080\nthat, 'cause people project a lot onto us,\n\n1507\n01:07:34.080 --> 01:07:35.720\nand assume that, oh, if you've had success\n\n1508\n01:07:35.720 --> 01:07:38.360\nor what you've had, that you care about,\n\n1509\n01:07:38.360 --> 01:07:41.640\nthings that I don't really care that much about.\n\n1510\n01:07:41.640 --> 01:07:42.920\n- All right, we're out of the lighting around.\n\n1511\n01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:43.760\nGreat job now.\n\n1512\n01:07:43.760 --> 01:07:45.480\nI got a few more questions, I'll let you go.\n\n1513\n01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:47.360\nI know you've got something to run to,\n\n1514\n01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:49.320\nwhich is not a big surprise.\n\n1515\n01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:53.240\nYou and your wife, Eileen, you have four kids.\n\n1516\n01:07:53.240 --> 01:07:54.880\nWhat's something about leadership\n\n1517\n01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:57.000\nthat you've carried home with you?\n\n1518\n01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:59.200\nI mean, how do you try to lead at home?\n\n1519\n01:07:59.200 --> 01:08:00.680\n- Well, it's almost the opposite, David.\n\n1520\n01:08:00.680 --> 01:08:05.880\nWe had our youngest, our oldest child's now 40,\n\n1521\n01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:07.920\nhe'll be 42 this year.\n\n1522\n01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:10.240\nSo we had him in my first year of Stanford Business School.\n\n1523\n01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:13.480\nI had my first child at 24, Arlene was 25.\n\n1524\n01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:15.920\nSo we had family before career,\n\n1525\n01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:18.160\nand I would say, I learned more\n\n1526\n01:08:18.160 --> 01:08:20.520\nabout being from being a father and a husband\n\n1527\n01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:22.520\nto being a leader than the other way around.\n\n1528\n01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:25.600\nAnd so it's like, your friends don't give,\n\n1529\n01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:27.560\nI'm sorry, your family, your kids don't give a shit,\n\n1530\n01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:30.480\nwhat you do, they don't care about title.\n\n1531\n01:08:30.480 --> 01:08:35.480\nThey don't, it's the ultimate humbling experience\n\n1532\n01:08:35.480 --> 01:08:39.960\nand it's the ultimate lesson in resilience,\n\n1533\n01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:42.840\nlike a marriage over time, you know, that you,\n\n1534\n01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:45.440\nit's a marathon, not a sprint.\n\n1535\n01:08:45.440 --> 01:08:48.080\nAnd so I feel lucky that my personal life\n\n1536\n01:08:48.080 --> 01:08:50.560\nhas taught me about leadership.\n\n1537\n01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:53.280\nEvery time I try to lead at home, I fail miserably\n\n1538\n01:08:53.280 --> 01:08:55.240\nand my kids and wife tell me that.\n\n1539\n01:08:55.240 --> 01:08:57.280\n(laughing)\n\n1540\n01:08:57.280 --> 01:09:01.000\n- You've accomplished so much in your career already.\n\n1541\n01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:03.960\nAnd now you're in your ultimate servant leadership role.\n\n1542\n01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:05.760\nThat's how you got in it, you know.\n\n1543\n01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:08.200\nWhat do you see as your unfinished business, John?\n\n1544\n01:09:08.200 --> 01:09:10.320\n- And enjoying the moment in the moment.\n\n1545\n01:09:10.320 --> 01:09:11.840\n- I remember it was about 10 years ago,\n\n1546\n01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:13.200\nI took a sabbatical 10 years ago\n\n1547\n01:09:13.200 --> 01:09:16.120\nand I remember watching Steph Curry play.\n\n1548\n01:09:16.120 --> 01:09:18.960\nAnd I'm like, he plays with joy.\n\n1549\n01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:20.440\nAnd he plays with the same joy in the night\n\n1550\n01:09:20.440 --> 01:09:22.360\nthat he's won for 10 that he does in the night,\n\n1551\n01:09:22.360 --> 01:09:24.280\nthat he's 10 for 10.\n\n1552\n01:09:24.280 --> 01:09:26.600\nAnd I feel like, you know, I've accomplished a lot,\n\n1553\n01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:28.760\nbut I didn't play, I dove on every loose ball,\n\n1554\n01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:30.800\nI fought really hard, maybe we won,\n\n1555\n01:09:30.800 --> 01:09:32.480\nbut at like the end of the season, like,\n\n1556\n01:09:32.480 --> 01:09:33.880\ndude, did you enjoy it?\n\n1557\n01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:37.280\nAnd so learning to play with joy,\n\n1558\n01:09:37.280 --> 01:09:39.480\nto love the discipline, love competing,\n\n1559\n01:09:39.480 --> 01:09:41.600\nlove being on the playing field,\n\n1560\n01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:44.280\nbut try to enjoy the moment in the moment,\n\n1561\n01:09:44.280 --> 01:09:47.800\nis my current highest mantra.\n\n1562\n01:09:47.800 --> 01:09:50.680\nIt turns out it's a lot harder to do than it is to say.\n\n1563\n01:09:50.680 --> 01:09:53.040\n- Fantastic, you know, last question.\n\n1564\n01:09:53.040 --> 01:09:55.800\nWhat's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone\n\n1565\n01:09:55.800 --> 01:09:58.160\nwho wants to be a better leader?\n\n1566\n01:09:58.160 --> 01:10:00.600\n- And keep, embrace yourself and keep learning\n\n1567\n01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:02.040\nand those both are true.\n\n1568\n01:10:02.040 --> 01:10:04.240\nEveryone has the ingredients to be a great leader\n\n1569\n01:10:04.240 --> 01:10:06.800\nand you do that by embracing your authenticity.\n\n1570\n01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:09.400\nYou've gotta never stop learning and those two,\n\n1571\n01:10:09.400 --> 01:10:12.520\nbut being true to who you are and keeping learning,\n\n1572\n01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:14.440\nthe combination of those two things\n\n1573\n01:10:14.440 --> 01:10:17.320\nthat think is what differentiates the best leaders\n\n1574\n01:10:17.320 --> 01:10:22.320\nthat are able to keep a strong balance of both.\n\n1575\n01:10:22.320 --> 01:10:25.880\n- You know, John, one of the things\n\n1576\n01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:29.320\nthat I'm really trying to work on now is just,\n\n1577\n01:10:29.320 --> 01:10:31.040\nit's called the precious present.\n\n1578\n01:10:31.040 --> 01:10:33.600\nYou know, just recognizing that the present is precious\n\n1579\n01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.920\nand you know, you don't get ahead of yourself,\n\n1580\n01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:37.320\ndon't get into the future.\n\n1581\n01:10:37.320 --> 01:10:38.920\nThe now is really what matters\n\n1582\n01:10:38.920 --> 01:10:41.560\nand that sounds maybe a little spiritual.\n\n1583\n01:10:41.560 --> 01:10:43.400\nI don't know, but it's so true\n\n1584\n01:10:43.400 --> 01:10:47.600\nand enjoying the moment in the moment is really incredible.\n\n1585\n01:10:47.600 --> 01:10:52.000\nAnd I'm so glad that we did have that round of golf\n\n1586\n01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:54.120\nat Fishers Island and Fishers Island\n\n1587\n01:10:54.120 --> 01:10:57.480\nand it was fantastic and I'm so glad we got to know each other.\n\n1588\n01:10:57.480 --> 01:11:02.240\nAnd I've certainly enjoyed this moment.\n\n1589\n01:11:02.240 --> 01:11:04.560\nIt's been very special and I appreciate you taking\n\n1590\n01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:06.520\nso much time out to share with you.\n\n1591\n01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:08.520\n- Thank you, David. I feel the same way.\n\n1592\n01:11:08.520 --> 01:11:16.520\n- David, what a fascinating conversation.\n\n1593\n01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:21.520\nI love that John has had this incredible career\n\n1594\n01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:24.480\nat the very top of companies like Nike and eBay.\n\n1595\n01:11:24.480 --> 01:11:28.120\nAnd now he's navigating all of these insane changes\n\n1596\n01:11:28.120 --> 01:11:29.760\nthat are happening in college sports\n\n1597\n01:11:29.760 --> 01:11:31.560\nas the athletic director at Stanford.\n\n1598\n01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:34.480\nThis conversation was just fascinating to me.\n\n1599\n01:11:34.480 --> 01:11:38.160\n- Yeah, well, I think John has demonstrated\n\n1600\n01:11:38.160 --> 01:11:40.640\nthat he's capable of going into any kind of business\n\n1601\n01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:42.640\nand making a significant difference.\n\n1602\n01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:45.720\nAnd I'm sure what he's going to do at Stanford\n\n1603\n01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:47.880\nwill become textbook over time.\n\n1604\n01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:50.000\nHe's a tremendous leader.\n\n1605\n01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:51.960\nHe really understands the importance\n\n1606\n01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:54.120\nof knowing his business cold,\n\n1607\n01:11:54.120 --> 01:11:56.520\nknowing his constituencies cold\n\n1608\n01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:58.280\nand then putting together a strategy\n\n1609\n01:11:58.280 --> 01:12:01.520\nthat's gonna take whatever business he's leading forward.\n\n1610\n01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:03.920\nAnd I'm sure he's gonna do a great job.\n\n1611\n01:12:03.920 --> 01:12:07.600\n- I also love the fact he's enormously vulnerable,\n\n1612\n01:12:07.600 --> 01:12:10.840\nconstantly learning about himself as a leader\n\n1613\n01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:14.400\nand he gives himself his unfinished business,\n\n1614\n01:12:14.400 --> 01:12:15.800\nwhich I think is great.\n\n1615\n01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:18.680\n- David, as we do in every debrief of our episodes,\n\n1616\n01:12:18.680 --> 01:12:21.120\nwe're gonna give our listeners some real practical tools\n\n1617\n01:12:21.120 --> 01:12:24.000\nthat they can apply right away to their leadership\n\n1618\n01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:24.840\nand to their life.\n\n1619\n01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:28.080\nAnd so I wanna break down some of these concepts\n\n1620\n01:12:28.080 --> 01:12:29.760\nthat you and John discussed in the episode.\n\n1621\n01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:32.120\nThe first one being kind of this main theme\n\n1622\n01:12:32.120 --> 01:12:34.320\nthat I recognize throughout the entire episode.\n\n1623\n01:12:34.320 --> 01:12:39.320\nAnd it's the importance of John's outside in approach.\n\n1624\n01:12:39.320 --> 01:12:41.200\nJohn talks about how important it is\n\n1625\n01:12:41.200 --> 01:12:45.200\nto first look at external forces like customers and culture\n\n1626\n01:12:45.200 --> 01:12:47.440\ninstead of starting with internal numbers\n\n1627\n01:12:47.440 --> 01:12:51.240\nthat you just wanna be when it comes to building out a strategy.\n\n1628\n01:12:51.240 --> 01:12:54.560\nAnd I'm curious, David, how would you coach your team\n\n1629\n01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:58.800\non how to be more outside in in their thinking?\n\n1630\n01:12:58.800 --> 01:13:00.840\n- Well, I think the first responsibility of leadership\n\n1631\n01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.120\nis always to define reality.\n\n1632\n01:13:03.120 --> 01:13:05.160\nAnd the only way you can define reality\n\n1633\n01:13:05.160 --> 01:13:08.360\nis to see the world the way it really is,\n\n1634\n01:13:08.360 --> 01:13:10.200\nnot the way you want it to be.\n\n1635\n01:13:10.200 --> 01:13:12.200\nAnd that means you have to look at the world.\n\n1636\n01:13:12.200 --> 01:13:15.280\nYou have to look outside of your own domain\n\n1637\n01:13:15.280 --> 01:13:18.600\nand look at the world and see how you fit within it.\n\n1638\n01:13:18.600 --> 01:13:21.480\nAnd when you do that, then you can really define reality.\n\n1639\n01:13:21.480 --> 01:13:23.600\nAnd then you're at the beginning stages\n\n1640\n01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:26.680\nof being able to develop an effective plan\n\n1641\n01:13:26.680 --> 01:13:28.520\nto cope with that reality\n\n1642\n01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:33.280\nand change the game for your company or yourself.\n\n1643\n01:13:33.280 --> 01:13:38.120\nSo I'm a big believer in being externally focused\n\n1644\n01:13:38.120 --> 01:13:40.480\nand in my world, it was always customers.\n\n1645\n01:13:40.480 --> 01:13:43.120\nAnd one of my edicts was listening to respond\n\n1646\n01:13:43.120 --> 01:13:44.400\nto the voice of the customer.\n\n1647\n01:13:44.400 --> 01:13:46.240\nWhat's the customer telling us?\n\n1648\n01:13:46.240 --> 01:13:47.920\nWhat's the customer want?\n\n1649\n01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:51.440\nWhat problems are we trying to solve for the customer?\n\n1650\n01:13:51.440 --> 01:13:53.800\nIf you do that, you're focused on what really matters.\n\n1651\n01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:56.840\nAnd people will many times say, in business,\n\n1652\n01:13:56.840 --> 01:13:58.400\nyou don't exist without customers.\n\n1653\n01:13:58.400 --> 01:13:59.880\nAnd that's true.\n\n1654\n01:13:59.880 --> 01:14:02.200\nSo how do you act that way?\n\n1655\n01:14:02.200 --> 01:14:05.360\nWell, you act that way by being focused on the customers.\n\n1656\n01:14:05.360 --> 01:14:08.640\nNot the way you see yourself internally\n\n1657\n01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:11.440\nor how you want customers to think about you.\n\n1658\n01:14:11.440 --> 01:14:14.760\nYou start by understanding how they think about you\n\n1659\n01:14:14.760 --> 01:14:18.280\nand then you get them to think about you\n\n1660\n01:14:18.280 --> 01:14:21.680\nthe way you want them to because you've addressed their needs.\n\n1661\n01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:23.840\n- He also reiterates the importance\n\n1662\n01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:26.360\nof doing that on a continual basis\n\n1663\n01:14:26.360 --> 01:14:28.240\nbecause at the rate that things are changing,\n\n1664\n01:14:28.240 --> 01:14:30.600\nso quickly in our world today,\n\n1665\n01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:32.840\nespecially in his world with college athletics,\n\n1666\n01:14:32.840 --> 01:14:35.760\nhe says, what happened six months ago sometimes\n\n1667\n01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:36.960\nis irrelevant today.\n\n1668\n01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:41.640\nSo I love this notion of not just one time\n\n1669\n01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:44.480\nlooking externally, seeing what the market is doing,\n\n1670\n01:14:44.480 --> 01:14:45.640\nseeing what your customers are doing\n\n1671\n01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:47.560\nand then creating your strategy based on that\n\n1672\n01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:49.920\nand then never looking at the external forces again.\n\n1673\n01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:54.720\nIt's a constant input of knowledge and information\n\n1674\n01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:56.520\nabout what's actually happening in the world\n\n1675\n01:14:56.520 --> 01:15:00.080\nthat continues to shape the strategy on an ongoing basis.\n\n1676\n01:15:00.080 --> 01:15:02.880\n- Yeah, one of the guys that I really admire\n\n1677\n01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:04.280\non that front is Jamie Diamond.\n\n1678\n01:15:04.280 --> 01:15:06.200\nHe's constantly got his ear to the ground.\n\n1679\n01:15:06.200 --> 01:15:09.360\nHe's constantly listening to his customers, his clients.\n\n1680\n01:15:09.360 --> 01:15:11.360\nHe's listening to his people.\n\n1681\n01:15:11.360 --> 01:15:14.400\nAnd he's listening to world leaders,\n\n1682\n01:15:14.400 --> 01:15:16.600\nbut he really develops a perspective\n\n1683\n01:15:16.600 --> 01:15:19.760\nthat's grounded in what's really, really happening\n\n1684\n01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:22.680\nout there, not necessarily inside.\n\n1685\n01:15:22.680 --> 01:15:24.880\nOf course, I'm not saying you put your head in the sand\n\n1686\n01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:26.360\nin terms of what's going on internally.\n\n1687\n01:15:26.360 --> 01:15:28.240\nYou need to understand your people\n\n1688\n01:15:28.240 --> 01:15:30.000\njust like you understand customers\n\n1689\n01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.080\nso that you can take them with you\n\n1690\n01:15:32.080 --> 01:15:34.600\nto address any kind of change initiative\n\n1691\n01:15:34.600 --> 01:15:37.120\nor any kind of project that you really wanna get done.\n\n1692\n01:15:37.120 --> 01:15:39.880\nSo yeah, you gotta know what's going on inside your company\n\n1693\n01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:41.440\nand how people are thinking,\n\n1694\n01:15:41.440 --> 01:15:43.040\nbut you wanna make sure that what you're doing\n\n1695\n01:15:43.040 --> 01:15:45.600\nis you're driving the people inside of your company\n\n1696\n01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:49.040\nto address what's happening out there with your customers.\n\n1697\n01:15:49.040 --> 01:15:51.000\nAnd that's really the key.\n\n1698\n01:15:51.000 --> 01:15:53.440\n- The next topic that I found super interesting\n\n1699\n01:15:53.440 --> 01:15:56.520\nthat John talked about was this idea of the inner journey\n\n1700\n01:15:56.520 --> 01:15:57.960\nof leadership.\n\n1701\n01:15:57.960 --> 01:16:00.440\nEveryone knows the external journey, so to speak,\n\n1702\n01:16:00.440 --> 01:16:02.280\nthat a leader experiences the challenges\n\n1703\n01:16:02.280 --> 01:16:04.240\nthat come along with being the one in charge,\n\n1704\n01:16:04.240 --> 01:16:06.200\nall of the different tasks\n\n1705\n01:16:06.200 --> 01:16:07.760\nthat you're up against every single day.\n\n1706\n01:16:07.760 --> 01:16:10.120\nBut what I love that he focuses on too\n\n1707\n01:16:10.120 --> 01:16:13.320\nis this inner journey of leadership.\n\n1708\n01:16:13.320 --> 01:16:15.000\nAnd he talks about some of the ways\n\n1709\n01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:18.080\nthat he tends to that in his own life.\n\n1710\n01:16:18.080 --> 01:16:20.360\nAnd David, I wanna know what do you do\n\n1711\n01:16:20.360 --> 01:16:25.240\nto listen to and tend to your inner journey as a leader?\n\n1712\n01:16:25.240 --> 01:16:27.960\n- Yeah, well, I think John talked about his journal\n\n1713\n01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:29.600\nthat he writes about what he learned\n\n1714\n01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:32.480\nand how he's going to put it to use\n\n1715\n01:16:32.480 --> 01:16:35.280\nas he goes forward into the day.\n\n1716\n01:16:35.280 --> 01:16:37.240\nAnd he does that on a daily basis.\n\n1717\n01:16:37.240 --> 01:16:38.560\nWhat did I learn yesterday?\n\n1718\n01:16:38.560 --> 01:16:41.800\nAnd how can I evolve?\n\n1719\n01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:43.640\nAnd I love that.\n\n1720\n01:16:43.640 --> 01:16:47.000\nI think all leaders have gotta find a way\n\n1721\n01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:51.040\nto find that quiet time that they need\n\n1722\n01:16:51.040 --> 01:16:53.760\nto reflect on their leadership.\n\n1723\n01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:56.640\nOne of the things that I'm really focused on this year,\n\n1724\n01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:58.840\nwhich I put in my three by five card,\n\n1725\n01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:00.400\nwhich is always like, what am I today?\n\n1726\n01:17:00.400 --> 01:17:03.440\nHow do I wanna be more effective tomorrow?\n\n1727\n01:17:03.440 --> 01:17:07.400\nIs I'm really focused on evolving from being someone\n\n1728\n01:17:07.400 --> 01:17:09.560\nthat has spent a little bit too much time\n\n1729\n01:17:09.560 --> 01:17:11.280\nthinking about the future\n\n1730\n01:17:11.280 --> 01:17:13.760\nin terms of what I wanna have happen as an outcome\n\n1731\n01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:15.880\nand too much time looking back\n\n1732\n01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:18.000\nat what I could have done better,\n\n1733\n01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:19.400\nwhich I think you can learn from.\n\n1734\n01:17:19.400 --> 01:17:23.800\nBut the one thing I can tell you is the past is over\n\n1735\n01:17:23.800 --> 01:17:26.960\nand the future you can't predict.\n\n1736\n01:17:26.960 --> 01:17:29.960\nSo I'm really focused on trying to be in the precious present.\n\n1737\n01:17:29.960 --> 01:17:31.360\nI call it the precious present,\n\n1738\n01:17:31.360 --> 01:17:35.960\nreally being focused on what's happening in my life right now.\n\n1739\n01:17:35.960 --> 01:17:37.920\nLike right now we're having this podcast,\n\n1740\n01:17:37.920 --> 01:17:39.920\nwe're having this discussion.\n\n1741\n01:17:39.920 --> 01:17:43.240\nI'm engaged 1,000% with you\n\n1742\n01:17:43.240 --> 01:17:47.880\nand doing it with whatever skill I have.\n\n1743\n01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:50.080\nBut I'm really focused.\n\n1744\n01:17:50.080 --> 01:17:52.240\nIn the mornings, I like John,\n\n1745\n01:17:52.240 --> 01:17:54.640\nI really try to journal.\n\n1746\n01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:57.960\nI have three things that I read every morning\n\n1747\n01:17:57.960 --> 01:18:00.000\nand write in.\n\n1748\n01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:01.400\nI have my gratitude journal\n\n1749\n01:18:01.400 --> 01:18:03.440\nand I write down three things that I'm grateful for,\n\n1750\n01:18:03.440 --> 01:18:04.640\nat least three things.\n\n1751\n01:18:04.640 --> 01:18:08.640\nThen I have a devotional that I read\n\n1752\n01:18:08.640 --> 01:18:10.360\nthat tells me how Jesus led\n\n1753\n01:18:10.360 --> 01:18:14.040\nand I write down a prayer every morning.\n\n1754\n01:18:14.040 --> 01:18:16.680\nAnd then I'm reading this book on stoicism\n\n1755\n01:18:16.680 --> 01:18:19.680\nand so I'm reading what happened this day.\n\n1756\n01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:22.320\nI read not what happened to this day,\n\n1757\n01:18:22.320 --> 01:18:26.280\nbut I read like if it's March 29th,\n\n1758\n01:18:26.280 --> 01:18:28.920\nI read that passage in March 29th\n\n1759\n01:18:28.920 --> 01:18:30.320\nand I learned from stoicism.\n\n1760\n01:18:30.320 --> 01:18:33.280\nSo I'm just trying to constantly learn and evolve\n\n1761\n01:18:33.280 --> 01:18:35.720\nbut get my mind ready to attack the day\n\n1762\n01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:38.720\nand to make the most of each day.\n\n1763\n01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:41.440\nDavid, we recently had an event here in Nashville\n\n1764\n01:18:41.440 --> 01:18:44.480\nwhere we invited a group of educators\n\n1765\n01:18:44.480 --> 01:18:46.280\nthat are part of our Lead for Change program.\n\n1766\n01:18:46.280 --> 01:18:49.200\nAnd in some of the program that we delivered to them,\n\n1767\n01:18:49.200 --> 01:18:52.840\nwe talked about the importance of having a practice,\n\n1768\n01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:53.880\na morning practice.\n\n1769\n01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:55.040\nIt doesn't matter what it looks like,\n\n1770\n01:18:55.040 --> 01:18:57.240\nbut just something that you can return to every day\n\n1771\n01:18:57.240 --> 01:18:59.840\nthat grounds you in the present moment\n\n1772\n01:18:59.840 --> 01:19:02.800\nand sets the stage for the rest of your day.\n\n1773\n01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:08.120\nAnd so we've done over 280 of these podcast episodes\n\n1774\n01:19:08.120 --> 01:19:11.760\nand I think every single leader that we've interviewed\n\n1775\n01:19:11.760 --> 01:19:14.920\nsays that they have some sort of morning practice.\n\n1776\n01:19:14.920 --> 01:19:19.920\nAnd it's been unbelievably impactful for my life as well,\n\n1777\n01:19:19.920 --> 01:19:21.680\njust to have something that I know\n\n1778\n01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:24.920\nis going to set the stage and get my mood\n\n1779\n01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:28.520\nand being right for whatever the day has to offer.\n\n1780\n01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:32.040\n- Yeah, and I think tomorrow morning when I wake up,\n\n1781\n01:19:32.040 --> 01:19:33.800\nI'm gonna write down to my grad a teacher\n\n1782\n01:19:33.800 --> 01:19:36.320\nthat I'm grateful for all the Lead for Change teachers\n\n1783\n01:19:36.320 --> 01:19:39.280\nthat are teaching students how to be better leaders.\n\n1784\n01:19:39.280 --> 01:19:42.720\nAnd this is a program we started years ago\n\n1785\n01:19:42.720 --> 01:19:46.080\nwhere we have thousands of teachers signed up\n\n1786\n01:19:46.080 --> 01:19:50.160\nteaching millions of kids how to be better leaders.\n\n1787\n01:19:50.160 --> 01:19:53.280\nAnd I think that's so exciting.\n\n1788\n01:19:53.280 --> 01:19:56.440\nAnd I'm so thrilled that we as a team\n\n1789\n01:19:56.440 --> 01:20:00.480\nwere able to bring the teachers into Nashville\n\n1790\n01:20:00.480 --> 01:20:03.440\nand spend three days developing them.\n\n1791\n01:20:03.440 --> 01:20:08.080\nAnd that's very, very gratifying.\n\n1792\n01:20:08.080 --> 01:20:11.000\nSo a shout out to all the great teachers out there.\n\n1793\n01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:12.360\n- Absolutely.\n\n1794\n01:20:12.360 --> 01:20:14.760\nAnd by the way, if you are listening to this\n\n1795\n01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:16.760\nand you're an educator or you know an educator\n\n1796\n01:20:16.760 --> 01:20:19.760\nwho could use some free professional development,\n\n1797\n01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:21.440\nsend them to leadforchange.org\n\n1798\n01:20:21.440 --> 01:20:23.040\nand that we'd love to serve them.\n\n1799\n01:20:23.040 --> 01:20:24.640\nDavid, the last point that I wanna bring up\n\n1800\n01:20:24.640 --> 01:20:26.400\nis this idea of role models.\n\n1801\n01:20:26.400 --> 01:20:28.560\nAnd John talks a lot in the episode\n\n1802\n01:20:28.560 --> 01:20:31.240\nabout his leadership muses.\n\n1803\n01:20:31.240 --> 01:20:34.360\nHe says we have CEO of Nike, he had pictures of Coach K,\n\n1804\n01:20:34.360 --> 01:20:37.520\nPhil Jackson, Terry Vanderbeer, and John Thompson\n\n1805\n01:20:37.520 --> 01:20:39.160\non the wall in his office.\n\n1806\n01:20:39.160 --> 01:20:42.040\nAnd I wanna know, David, who's going on your wall\n\n1807\n01:20:42.040 --> 01:20:43.560\nof leadership inspiration?\n\n1808\n01:20:43.560 --> 01:20:44.920\nWho are your muses?\n\n1809\n01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:47.600\n- I don't have a wall of leaders\n\n1810\n01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:51.680\nthat have been inspirational to me,\n\n1811\n01:20:51.680 --> 01:20:53.920\nbut it's very easy for me to think about who would be on it.\n\n1812\n01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:55.880\nNumber one would be Andy Pearson,\n\n1813\n01:20:55.880 --> 01:20:57.800\nperson I co-founded Young Brands with.\n\n1814\n01:20:57.800 --> 01:21:01.360\nI mean, he taught me so much about business,\n\n1815\n01:21:01.360 --> 01:21:05.600\ngreat decision maker, great leader,\n\n1816\n01:21:05.600 --> 01:21:09.520\ngreat inspire coach me, helped me believe myself\n\n1817\n01:21:09.520 --> 01:21:13.000\nbefore I even knew what I was capable of doing.\n\n1818\n01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:15.960\nDoesn't be Wayne Callaway, the chairman of PepsiCo,\n\n1819\n01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:19.360\nso wise, I tell many stories about him\n\n1820\n01:21:19.360 --> 01:21:23.160\nall the time on this podcast.\n\n1821\n01:21:24.600 --> 01:21:27.840\nBut Wayne was really the one that helped me realize that\n\n1822\n01:21:27.840 --> 01:21:30.600\nI was gonna have to evolve for being a marketing person\n\n1823\n01:21:30.600 --> 01:21:33.560\ninto a general manager before I could run a division\n\n1824\n01:21:33.560 --> 01:21:39.520\nat PepsiCo, and he gave me great coaching to that end.\n\n1825\n01:21:39.520 --> 01:21:42.080\nAnd then, I just love Ken Langone,\n\n1826\n01:21:42.080 --> 01:21:47.080\nthe co-founder of Home Depot, the guy who made NYU Langone\n\n1827\n01:21:47.080 --> 01:21:50.240\nwhat it is today, the number one hospital in the world\n\n1828\n01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:51.680\nworking with Bob Grossman.\n\n1829\n01:21:54.280 --> 01:21:58.760\nHe's really taught me the power of just a kind gesture.\n\n1830\n01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:01.120\nYou know, this guy's all about kindness,\n\n1831\n01:22:01.120 --> 01:22:04.760\nas tough as he is, and he is tough, he's tough minded.\n\n1832\n01:22:04.760 --> 01:22:07.760\nBut man, there's nobody they can love on you\n\n1833\n01:22:07.760 --> 01:22:11.600\nlike a Ken Langone, and he's taught me the power of that.\n\n1834\n01:22:11.600 --> 01:22:15.160\nSo those three right off the top would be on my wall.\n\n1835\n01:22:15.160 --> 01:22:18.080\nYou know, stepping back, I think we've talked about three\n\n1836\n01:22:18.080 --> 01:22:19.480\nthings that are pretty important.\n\n1837\n01:22:19.480 --> 01:22:22.040\nNumber one, we got it as leaders,\n\n1838\n01:22:22.040 --> 01:22:24.080\nwe gotta keep looking on the outsides.\n\n1839\n01:22:24.080 --> 01:22:25.800\nSee the world the way it really is,\n\n1840\n01:22:25.800 --> 01:22:27.400\nabout the way you want it to be.\n\n1841\n01:22:27.400 --> 01:22:29.880\nNumber two, constantly reflect our where we are at\n\n1842\n01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:32.840\nin our journey of leadership.\n\n1843\n01:22:32.840 --> 01:22:35.560\nAnd number three, be inspired by those\n\n1844\n01:22:35.560 --> 01:22:37.920\nthat have come before us and invested in us.\n\n1845\n01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:41.600\nAnd you know, have those heroes that we can think about,\n\n1846\n01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:44.080\nnot just think about them, but emulate them\n\n1847\n01:22:44.080 --> 01:22:47.360\nand the kind of impact that they've had on our life.\n\n1848\n01:22:47.360 --> 01:22:49.360\nLet's do the same thing for others.\n\n1849\n01:22:49.360 --> 01:22:51.760\n- David, thank you so much for another excellent episode.\n\n1850\n01:22:51.760 --> 01:22:53.720\nAnd thank you to our listeners for tuning in\n\n1851\n01:22:53.720 --> 01:22:56.520\nto how leaders lead, we will see you next Thursday.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL9433770418.mp3","dx_media_id",3576,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-04-09","itunes_episode_id",286,"youtube_id","A86vgtHGvg0","2026-08-19T21:37:02.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with John Donahoe, former CEO of Nike and Stanford Director of Athletics and discover how to build strategy from the outside in.","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/fg1NKIkkDth3Pkemtd6yoAZSQwnxnfHf6UPFOf96.mp3","dx_filename","fg1NKIkkDth3Pkemtd6yoAZSQwnxnfHf6UPFOf96.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","q5KjiePHQuSetZKoC6Y2k200m9HdRqIID029YowIK00CWw","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/3576.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",4978042,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/A86vgtHGvg0/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_96":80,"_97":78,"_98":-5,"_31":82,"_33":99,"_100":-5,"_101":84,"_87":88,"_102":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","uF01dK3xvMeokZ02gM9QEey7wxgRvqP2Dt5Ti01x9aXdq8","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","John","last_name","Donahoe","job_title","Stanford University, Director of Athletics","John Donahoe, Stanford, Athletics, 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