[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3296/use-a-message-triangle-to-communicate-big-ideas","id",3296,"title","Use a message triangle to communicate big ideas","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.160\nBut my team would probably say, like, if you don't show up in a JC session with\n\n2\n00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:05.480\na clear\n\n3\n00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.640\nmessage triangle, then he's going to school you live.\n\n4\n00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.800\nAnd I mean that in a positive way, because I fundamentally believe in that.\n\n5\n00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:13.520\nI believe in the power of three.\n\n6\n00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:16.380\nI believe in a message triangle that says, what's, what are the three most\n\n7\n00:00:16.380 --> 00:00:16.880\nimportant\n\n8\n00:00:16.880 --> 00:00:17.880\nthings?\n\n9\n00:00:17.880 --> 00:00:20.840\nAnd typically, if you get one right, you're doing okay, if you get two of those\n\n10\n00:00:20.840 --> 00:00:21.680\nthree things,\n\n11\n00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:22.680\nyou're on the right path.\n\n12\n00:00:22.680 --> 00:00:27.240\nIf you get all three in motion, you can actually make a meaningful difference.\n\n13\n00:00:27.240 --> 00:00:31.860\nAnd I think determining what mode the company and the brand is in is super\n\n14\n00:00:31.860 --> 00:00:32.760\ncritical.\n\n15\n00:00:32.760 --> 00:00:34.280\nAre you in defensive offense?\n\n16\n00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:36.360\nAre you in protection of your business mode?\n\n17\n00:00:36.360 --> 00:00:38.000\nAre you in acceleration mode?\n\n18\n00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:41.560\nAnd so finding what that mode is, and then building that messaging triangle\n\n19\n00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:42.080\naround it\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",714809,"end_time",756897,"keywords","Communication, message, messaging, internal communication, message triangle","slug","use-a-message-triangle-to-communicate-big-ideas","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","pj9ybtu4UQA2o2k1tjB11i7M00hMInvYpymSpDmrfBPA","mux_asset_id","PL01AEcy023nXhSPu3Qb9N00soBNQIqs9Gvt22MrH02G3TU","leader_id",275,"episode_id",426,"updated_at","2026-04-23T15:46:28.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3296/use-a-message-triangle-to-communicate-big-ideas","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","How to reframe what you sell","how-to-reframe-what-you-sell","Most companies sell products. Great brands own categories. Reframe what you're selling – from the thing you make to the bigger need you serve – and you'll unlock new levels of growth.","summary","

Most leaders think they’re in the business of selling their product. JC Curleigh thinks that’s exactly what limits your growth.

And as CEO of Pelican, he’s helping the company make a profound shift: they’re not in the protective case business, they’re in the protection business.

JC understands that great brands sell more than products, and he knows how to position them the right way. In fact, it’s how he led turnarounds at iconic brands like Levi’s and Gibson Guitars.

In today’s episode, you’ll see how to use the same thinking to revitalize and expand your own brand. You’ll also learn:

How to make better decisions by being “aggressively patient”
The incredible story behind the naming rights for Levi’s Stadium
What “helicopter vision” is, and why every leader should have it
What you need instead of a “Plan B”

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.520\n- Hello everyone and welcome to another episode\n\n2\n00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:04.360\nof How Leaders Lead with David Novak.\n\n3\n00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:06.360\nToday our guest is J.C. Curly.\n\n4\n00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:08.400\nHe's the CEO of Pelican Products.\n\n5\n00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:11.400\nAnd in today's episode, you'll learn how to reframe\n\n6\n00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:15.280\nwhat you sell in a way that expands your brand.\n\n7\n00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:17.320\nYou'll also learn how to make better decisions\n\n8\n00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:19.680\nby being aggressively patient,\n\n9\n00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:23.600\nwhat helicopter vision is and why every leader should have it\n\n10\n00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:27.080\nand what you need instead of a plan B.\n\n11\n00:00:27.080 --> 00:00:29.720\nEnjoy this conversation between David and J.C.\n\n12\n00:00:29.720 --> 00:00:31.880\nAnd stick around to the very end of the episode\n\n13\n00:00:31.880 --> 00:00:32.980\nfor the debrief.\n\n14\n00:00:32.980 --> 00:00:42.240\n- Tell us about Pelican Products, you know,\n\n15\n00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.600\nwhat it is today and how you're envisioning the future.\n\n16\n00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:47.600\nPelicans in some cases, it's ubiquitous.\n\n17\n00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:49.840\nEveryone kind of sees it, they know it.\n\n18\n00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:50.960\nAnd I'm not talking about the bird,\n\n19\n00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:52.000\nI'm talking about the case.\n\n20\n00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.000\nAnd then when you describe it, they go,\n\n21\n00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.480\noh yeah, I know what that is.\n\n22\n00:00:55.480 --> 00:00:57.760\nAnd then of course, if you use Pelican cases,\n\n23\n00:00:57.760 --> 00:01:00.120\nyou really know what it is because you rely on it\n\n24\n00:01:00.120 --> 00:01:03.040\nfor your mission, whether that's again,\n\n25\n00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:04.880\nwhether you're an explorer, an adventure,\n\n26\n00:01:04.880 --> 00:01:06.400\na protector, a defender.\n\n27\n00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.280\nAnd so we're actually 50 years old this year.\n\n28\n00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.880\nAnd so for 50 years, we've been synonymous with protection.\n\n29\n00:01:12.880 --> 00:01:14.840\nAnd we kind of invented this category.\n\n30\n00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.480\nWe started off with the first aid kit\n\n31\n00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:19.440\nand then people said, hey, if this is crush proof,\n\n32\n00:01:19.440 --> 00:01:21.680\ndust proof, waterproof, why can't we use it\n\n33\n00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:24.520\nfor more protection across more use cases?\n\n34\n00:01:24.520 --> 00:01:27.040\nAnd 50 years later, we're the global leader\n\n35\n00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:29.400\nin protective cases and beyond.\n\n36\n00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.240\nSo for us, it is been on a mission.\n\n37\n00:01:32.240 --> 00:01:34.840\nBut what we like to say is we're not the heroes.\n\n38\n00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.800\nThe heroes are all the folks out there doing what they do.\n\n39\n00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:39.920\nAnd we enable and empower the mission\n\n40\n00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:41.480\nto be accomplished at Pelican.\n\n41\n00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:43.840\nAnd I think we like to also say\n\n42\n00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:46.200\nthat our protection starts where others ends.\n\n43\n00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:49.840\nAnd so if it's a mission critical situation,\n\n44\n00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:52.320\nwhat we've learned and regardless of whether we're talking\n\n45\n00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:56.640\nwith the military, with filmmakers or with collectors,\n\n46\n00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.800\nthe organization, the protection of what they value\n\n47\n00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:02.880\nsignificantly determines the outcome of the mission.\n\n48\n00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:05.760\nAnd when they put into Pelican, mission accomplished.\n\n49\n00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:07.440\n- Well, JC, you help us every day.\n\n50\n00:02:07.440 --> 00:02:10.800\nYou know, we ship our podcasts all our guests like yourself\n\n51\n00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:12.600\nand we ship them all across the country.\n\n52\n00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:14.840\nAnd we know we can count on Pelican cases\n\n53\n00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:16.640\nbecause they can take you beaten\n\n54\n00:02:16.640 --> 00:02:17.440\nand they're gonna get there.\n\n55\n00:02:17.440 --> 00:02:21.640\nYou're almost like the timex of cases.\n\n56\n00:02:21.640 --> 00:02:24.760\nAnd you know, what's your favorite story, JC,\n\n57\n00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:28.200\nthat you've heard about, you know,\n\n58\n00:02:28.200 --> 00:02:32.480\nor someone used your gear to really fulfill their mission?\n\n59\n00:02:32.480 --> 00:02:33.920\n- Yeah, I mean, there's so many stories.\n\n60\n00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:37.200\nAnd I admit, I'm not sure if it exists,\n\n61\n00:02:37.200 --> 00:02:40.520\nbut I'm on the TSA stalker list at every airport\n\n62\n00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:42.880\nbecause every time I see a Pelican case,\n\n63\n00:02:42.880 --> 00:02:44.040\nI actually stop people.\n\n64\n00:02:44.040 --> 00:02:47.040\nAnd I say, hey, you know, what's in the Pelican?\n\n65\n00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:49.560\nAnd no one's ever told me like, no one's challenged me,\n\n66\n00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:50.560\nno one's questioned me.\n\n67\n00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.320\nAnd I don't come in leading like I'm the CEO of Pelican.\n\n68\n00:02:53.320 --> 00:02:55.000\nI just say, hey, what do you got in the Pelican?\n\n69\n00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.480\nThey tell me and I go, hey, are you using track pack pick?\n\n70\n00:02:57.480 --> 00:02:58.480\nHow are you organizing it?\n\n71\n00:02:58.480 --> 00:02:59.320\nAnd they kind of look.\n\n72\n00:02:59.320 --> 00:03:01.680\nAnd so I do have one favorite story.\n\n73\n00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:03.200\nAnd there's a couple.\n\n74\n00:03:03.200 --> 00:03:05.480\nBut one was, it was early morning flight.\n\n75\n00:03:05.480 --> 00:03:07.400\nI was coming from Nashville to LA\n\n76\n00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.120\nand we're all, you know, everyone's heads down,\n\n77\n00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:10.240\ngoing to their gate.\n\n78\n00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:13.260\nAnd this lady, she's probably like early 30s.\n\n79\n00:03:13.260 --> 00:03:16.240\nAnd she was very dialed in, organized.\n\n80\n00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:17.040\nShe was on a mission.\n\n81\n00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:19.800\nI didn't know her, but I saw the Pelican case.\n\n82\n00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.880\nAnd so I just kind of got beside her.\n\n83\n00:03:22.880 --> 00:03:25.240\nAnd I said, hey, you know, what's in the Pelican?\n\n84\n00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:26.360\nShe goes, oh, it's camera equipment.\n\n85\n00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:27.200\nI said, where are you headed?\n\n86\n00:03:27.200 --> 00:03:28.400\nShe goes, I'm going straight to a shoot.\n\n87\n00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:29.680\nAnd we started talking.\n\n88\n00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.480\nAnd she said, I said, how do you organize it?\n\n89\n00:03:31.480 --> 00:03:33.480\nShe said, well, I've actually, they do this thing\n\n90\n00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:35.480\ncalled pick and pluck where you can organize it\n\n91\n00:03:35.480 --> 00:03:36.120\nfor your equipment.\n\n92\n00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.040\nI said, oh yeah, I said, have you ever tried the track pack?\n\n93\n00:03:38.040 --> 00:03:39.480\nShe goes, no, what's that?\n\n94\n00:03:39.480 --> 00:03:41.840\nAnd so she goes, what's up with the question?\n\n95\n00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:43.160\nI said, hey, I'm the Pelican guy.\n\n96\n00:03:43.160 --> 00:03:44.240\nAnd she goes, what does that mean?\n\n97\n00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:45.080\nI said, well, you know, I'm the CEO.\n\n98\n00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:46.920\nI'm just always curious.\n\n99\n00:03:46.920 --> 00:03:49.680\nAnd she stopped, I mean, she stopped dead in her tracks.\n\n100\n00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:52.800\nWe were on a mission to the gate, she goes, can I tell you my Pelican story?\n\n101\n00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:54.600\nAnd I'm like, absolutely.\n\n102\n00:03:54.600 --> 00:03:57.120\nShe said, she's been a photographer for a few years.\n\n103\n00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.720\nAnd she goes to shoots.\n\n104\n00:03:58.720 --> 00:04:03.080\nAnd traditionally, she'd bring a backpack and she'd show up and start unpacking\n\n105\n00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:03.200\nit.\n\n106\n00:04:03.200 --> 00:04:08.120\nMaybe she used a pair of socks or something else to organize her equipment.\n\n107\n00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.480\nShe decided to invest in a Pelican.\n\n108\n00:04:10.480 --> 00:04:12.760\nAnd she said, when she showed up on that first shoot,\n\n109\n00:04:12.760 --> 00:04:15.680\nshe showed up with the Pelican, laid it all out.\n\n110\n00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:20.320\nAnd she said, that's the moment when I was taken seriously as a photographer\n\n111\n00:04:20.320 --> 00:04:23.680\nand it helped give me the confidence to actually do what I do now,\n\n112\n00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:25.320\ndirecting big major shoots.\n\n113\n00:04:25.320 --> 00:04:31.880\nSo she actually, she thought that the Pelican was a code for she's arrived in\n\n114\n00:04:31.880 --> 00:04:32.640\nher profession.\n\n115\n00:04:32.640 --> 00:04:35.720\nAnd I think we hear those stories from Navy SEALs and SWAT teams\n\n116\n00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:40.840\nand clearly in military theater, Pelican synonymous with literally saving lives\n\n117\n00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:40.840\n.\n\n118\n00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:45.480\nAnd so I had this other kid and this dad, there were collectors.\n\n119\n00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:47.400\nAnd the kid didn't want to tell me what was in it.\n\n120\n00:04:47.400 --> 00:04:51.510\nHe kept looking at his dad and then I said, I promised you I'm the CEO of Pel\n\n121\n00:04:51.510 --> 00:04:51.920\nican.\n\n122\n00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.000\nAnd they sort of said, OK, we can show you.\n\n123\n00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:54.760\nAnd they opened it up.\n\n124\n00:04:54.760 --> 00:04:58.240\nThere was a million dollars worth of baseball cards in a Pelican case.\n\n125\n00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:02.160\nSo we see all sorts of stories and we get stories.\n\n126\n00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:05.960\nAnd we like to say if a Pelican case could talk, it would have a lot of stories\n\n127\n00:05:05.960 --> 00:05:06.840\nto tell.\n\n128\n00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:11.240\nWell, you know, you build a protected and you have this protect your brand\n\n129\n00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:12.320\nstands for protection.\n\n130\n00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:14.640\nYou equip people for for their mission.\n\n131\n00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:19.260\nAnd, you know, so you obviously have a product that can basically take a\n\n132\n00:05:19.260 --> 00:05:19.680\nbeating.\n\n133\n00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:24.970\nAs I mentioned earlier, have you personally ever tried to destroy one of your\n\n134\n00:05:24.970 --> 00:05:25.520\ncases?\n\n135\n00:05:25.520 --> 00:05:29.640\nYeah, I mean, we I mean, we do all this to drop tests and the test.\n\n136\n00:05:29.640 --> 00:05:33.160\nAnd we're working on some next generation products too.\n\n137\n00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:34.240\nSo we do a lot of testing.\n\n138\n00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:39.120\nBut I actually use it in my daily lives in my former lives when I was at Gibson\n\n139\n00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:39.560\nGuitars.\n\n140\n00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:43.880\nWe use it for archives and other, you know, and I grew up in a military family.\n\n141\n00:05:43.880 --> 00:05:45.120\nMy father was military.\n\n142\n00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:46.880\nSo there were Pelican cases around.\n\n143\n00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:49.280\nAnd as kids, we tried to mess around with them.\n\n144\n00:05:49.280 --> 00:05:51.120\nAnd we knew they were indestructible.\n\n145\n00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:55.000\nSo you kind of go like, will it break or what we were more interested is not\n\n146\n00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.240\nnecessarily beating up the Pelican case.\n\n147\n00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:00.720\nAnd even today, yeah, you could beat up what we're really interested in.\n\n148\n00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.620\nAnd what I'm interested is, will it protect what's inside regardless of the\n\n149\n00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:05.880\nbeating it takes on the outside?\n\n150\n00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:08.240\nAnd the answer so far is yes.\n\n151\n00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.640\nWe actually worked with Red Bull and the Red Bull Rampage.\n\n152\n00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:14.760\nAnd we built a case and they put a Red Bull fridge, dropped it from a\n\n153\n00:06:14.760 --> 00:06:16.400\nhelicopter on top of the mountain\n\n154\n00:06:16.400 --> 00:06:18.840\nand then started the race when the Red Bull fridge opened.\n\n155\n00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:19.760\nAnd guess what?\n\n156\n00:06:19.760 --> 00:06:21.320\nThe Red Bull fridge was intact.\n\n157\n00:06:21.320 --> 00:06:23.600\nSo it's a pretty good endorsement.\n\n158\n00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:29.800\nI would say so, you know, if we put your leadership style through a Pelican\n\n159\n00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:30.680\ntorture test,\n\n160\n00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.640\nwhat would survive every time?\n\n161\n00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:37.520\nI think what would survive, that's a great one.\n\n162\n00:06:37.520 --> 00:06:42.160\nI think what would survive is the energy dynamic that's kinetic.\n\n163\n00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.520\nIt's so, so latent potential is a batter that needs to get plugged in.\n\n164\n00:06:45.520 --> 00:06:50.030\nIf you think about kinetic energy, it's in motion, it's always, there's little\n\n165\n00:06:50.030 --> 00:06:51.080\nmomentum happening.\n\n166\n00:06:51.080 --> 00:06:55.170\nAnd I think that would survive the kinetic and the JC kinetic energy would\n\n167\n00:06:55.170 --> 00:06:55.920\nsurvive.\n\n168\n00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:57.400\nI love it.\n\n169\n00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:03.080\nAnd, you know, you've been a part of growing some major brands, which we're\n\n170\n00:07:03.080 --> 00:07:03.560\ngoing to talk\n\n171\n00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:07.880\nabout a little bit later.\n\n172\n00:07:07.880 --> 00:07:13.200\nWhen you came into Pelican, what did you basically inherit?\n\n173\n00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:18.240\nAnd better question, you know, what was the first hard truth that you really\n\n174\n00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:19.560\nhad to confront?\n\n175\n00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:25.460\nI think the hard truth, and again, it's hard to not talk about situations I've\n\n176\n00:07:25.460 --> 00:07:26.400\ninherited.\n\n177\n00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:31.440\nI've inherited a company that was bankrupt, a major iconic brand that had taken\n\n178\n00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:32.480\nits leadership\n\n179\n00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:33.480\nfor granted.\n\n180\n00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:38.600\nI've been part of a brand that had to expand or else it was regulated to just a\n\n181\n00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:39.640\nWinter Sports\n\n182\n00:07:39.640 --> 00:07:40.640\nCompany and so on.\n\n183\n00:07:40.640 --> 00:07:41.640\nAnd we'll talk about that.\n\n184\n00:07:41.640 --> 00:07:47.400\nBut with Pelican, I think the starting point was, you know, we're a leader in\n\n185\n00:07:47.400 --> 00:07:48.800\nour category.\n\n186\n00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:50.200\nWe've never not been the leader.\n\n187\n00:07:50.200 --> 00:07:53.120\nWe invented a category and we have potential.\n\n188\n00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.890\nAnd so, do you remember when you were a kid, maybe in third or fourth grade, I\n\n189\n00:07:55.890 --> 00:07:56.320\nthink we\n\n190\n00:07:56.320 --> 00:08:00.140\nall had the same thing like good student, you know, could pay a little more\n\n191\n00:08:00.140 --> 00:08:00.800\nattention\n\n192\n00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:02.480\nand has so much potential.\n\n193\n00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:07.560\nAnd I think the thesis on Pelican is we're a globally recognized brand.\n\n194\n00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:09.080\nWe're a leader in what we do.\n\n195\n00:08:09.080 --> 00:08:13.200\nAnd yet the potential is so much more.\n\n196\n00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:16.320\nAnd I do a little analysis, you know, you don't have to do too much desktop\n\n197\n00:08:16.320 --> 00:08:16.840\nresearch\n\n198\n00:08:16.840 --> 00:08:21.200\nto find that people are buying fewer things but of higher quality, i.e.\n\n199\n00:08:21.200 --> 00:08:21.680\nspending more\n\n200\n00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:26.020\nmoney and they want to value, they want to protect what they value.\n\n201\n00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:30.440\nSo we're really at this really interesting intersection where if more people\n\n202\n00:08:30.440 --> 00:08:31.240\nunderstood\n\n203\n00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:34.780\nthat they could have a Pelican in their life that would protect what they value\n\n204\n00:08:34.780 --> 00:08:35.400\nregardless\n\n205\n00:08:35.400 --> 00:08:39.960\nof the form factor, we think we've got a lot of potential in front of us.\n\n206\n00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.590\nYou know, my dad had a great saying about potential and it was like, potential\n\n207\n00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:43.880\nmeans\n\n208\n00:08:43.880 --> 00:08:46.200\nyou haven't done it yet, you know.\n\n209\n00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.560\nAnd you know, as a leader, one of the things you have to do is come in and\n\n210\n00:08:48.560 --> 00:08:49.040\ndefine your\n\n211\n00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:55.430\nreality and say, okay, this is what we can be and you're now really taking this\n\n212\n00:08:55.430 --> 00:08:55.920\nbrand\n\n213\n00:08:55.920 --> 00:09:01.480\nwhich stands for protection into a lot of different areas.\n\n214\n00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:02.480\nTalk about that.\n\n215\n00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:07.560\nWell, I think we often talk as leaders about, hey, what was 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 in\n\n216\n00:09:07.560 --> 00:09:08.320\nthe journey\n\n217\n00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:10.160\nof a brand and a business.\n\n218\n00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:15.850\nAnd I would declare that, you know, the first 50 years of Pelican 1.0 were\n\n219\n00:09:15.850 --> 00:09:17.440\nabsolutely successful.\n\n220\n00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:23.070\nI mean, we've grown, we're profitable, we have a leading brand, but to unlock\n\n221\n00:09:23.070 --> 00:09:24.240\nthis potential,\n\n222\n00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:27.760\nyou can't just keep on doing the same things the same way.\n\n223\n00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:33.480\nAnd I think if, you know, and quite frankly, different investors have different\n\n224\n00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:34.720\nexpectations.\n\n225\n00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:40.100\nThe prior investors, they were okay with a much slower, what I would call the\n\n226\n00:09:40.100 --> 00:09:40.800\nsqueeze\n\n227\n00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:41.800\nplay.\n\n228\n00:09:41.800 --> 00:09:43.930\nYou squeeze a little growth, you squeeze a little margin, squeeze a little\n\n229\n00:09:43.930 --> 00:09:44.400\nexpenses and\n\n230\n00:09:44.400 --> 00:09:48.520\nyou get this compounding effect over years on your profitability.\n\n231\n00:09:48.520 --> 00:09:53.330\nI think in today's world, if you truly believe the thesis of potential and\n\n232\n00:09:53.330 --> 00:09:55.320\naccelerated growth,\n\n233\n00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:57.520\nthen you have to do things differently.\n\n234\n00:09:57.520 --> 00:10:01.320\nSaid differently, what got you here won't get you there.\n\n235\n00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:06.980\n50 years of synonymous leading protection, how do we accelerate that into new\n\n236\n00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:07.800\nuser bases\n\n237\n00:10:07.800 --> 00:10:11.370\nand how do we bring new solutions and how do we continue to customize and\n\n238\n00:10:11.370 --> 00:10:12.140\npersonalize\n\n239\n00:10:12.140 --> 00:10:16.970\nsolutions for people that, you know, that they want better protection, but also\n\n240\n00:10:16.970 --> 00:10:17.240\nin a\n\n241\n00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:19.440\nslightly different way than they used to get it.\n\n242\n00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.700\nSo we unlocked on lease, what do I call Pelican 2.0.\n\n243\n00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:27.640\nAnd it was essentially, and I can actually, this was not scripted, but I can\n\n244\n00:10:27.640 --> 00:10:28.160\nshow you\n\n245\n00:10:28.160 --> 00:10:29.400\nthe exact piece of paper.\n\n246\n00:10:29.400 --> 00:10:34.090\nI tend to go Canadian PowerPoint on day one and, and I'm going to throw it up\n\n247\n00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:34.780\nthere.\n\n248\n00:10:34.780 --> 00:10:40.630\nSo I talk about these, these things, I talk about re I talk about reinforced,\n\n249\n00:10:40.630 --> 00:10:41.600\nre energize\n\n250\n00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:43.120\nand reimagine.\n\n251\n00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.410\nAnd that really is, is, is this on this built to protect platform up here we go\n\n252\n00:10:48.410 --> 00:10:48.720\n.\n\n253\n00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.040\nAnd then there it is right there.\n\n254\n00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:56.420\nAnd then built to protect, but then you launch the, what we call the Pelican 2.\n\n255\n00:10:56.420 --> 00:10:57.420\n0 re evolution.\n\n256\n00:10:57.420 --> 00:11:01.180\nSo against that backdrop, and we've refined it a little bit, but I really think\n\n257\n00:11:01.180 --> 00:11:01.500\nit's\n\n258\n00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:06.120\nimportant if you come into a brand, reinforce what's working, a lot of leaders\n\n259\n00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:06.520\ncome in and\n\n260\n00:11:06.520 --> 00:11:08.040\nthey want to change everything.\n\n261\n00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:12.890\nWhat's working is a lot at Pelican recalibrate and re energize areas that you\n\n262\n00:11:12.890 --> 00:11:13.880\nwant to unlock\n\n263\n00:11:13.880 --> 00:11:16.280\nand then reimagine the future of where it can go.\n\n264\n00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:21.910\nAnd if you look at brands like Yeti or Tumi or Tuli, I mean, Yeti is a $2\n\n265\n00:11:21.910 --> 00:11:23.000\nbillion brand\n\n266\n00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:28.080\nsynonymous with premium coolers and, and hydration solutions at $2 billion.\n\n267\n00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:32.770\nAnd if they can get there with that and they're, they're younger than Pelican,\n\n268\n00:11:32.770 --> 00:11:33.820\nthen the potential\n\n269\n00:11:33.820 --> 00:11:36.980\nfor us to get to that sort of level is very, very real.\n\n270\n00:11:36.980 --> 00:11:39.780\nSo you've got this re evolution, which I love.\n\n271\n00:11:39.780 --> 00:11:42.340\nAnd by the way, I love how you just communicated that so clearly.\n\n272\n00:11:42.340 --> 00:11:45.900\nI mean, how do you think about just communication?\n\n273\n00:11:45.900 --> 00:11:46.900\nThat's simple.\n\n274\n00:11:46.900 --> 00:11:50.020\nWhat process do you go through to boil it down like that for your, for your\n\n275\n00:11:50.020 --> 00:11:50.420\npeople?\n\n276\n00:11:50.420 --> 00:11:53.180\nBecause, you know, I get it, I know where you're headed.\n\n277\n00:11:53.180 --> 00:11:56.300\nI'm not sure I've perfected it, but, but my team would probably say like, if\n\n278\n00:11:56.300 --> 00:11:56.740\nyou don't\n\n279\n00:11:56.740 --> 00:12:01.890\nshow up in a JC session and with a clear message triangle, then he's going to\n\n280\n00:12:01.890 --> 00:12:02.480\nschool\n\n281\n00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:03.480\nyou live.\n\n282\n00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.620\nAnd I mean that in a positive way, because I fundamentally believe in that.\n\n283\n00:12:06.620 --> 00:12:09.900\nI believe in the power of three, I believe in a message triangle that says,\n\n284\n00:12:09.900 --> 00:12:10.580\nwhat's, what\n\n285\n00:12:10.580 --> 00:12:12.140\nare the three most important things?\n\n286\n00:12:12.140 --> 00:12:15.660\nAnd typically, if you get one right, you're doing okay, if you get two of those\n\n287\n00:12:15.660 --> 00:12:16.520\nthree things,\n\n288\n00:12:16.520 --> 00:12:17.520\nyou're on the right path.\n\n289\n00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:22.060\nIf you get all three in motion, you can actually make a meaningful difference.\n\n290\n00:12:22.060 --> 00:12:26.650\nAnd I think determining what mode the company and the brand is in is super\n\n291\n00:12:26.650 --> 00:12:27.580\ncritical.\n\n292\n00:12:27.580 --> 00:12:31.020\nAre you in defensive, offensive, are you in protection of your business mode,\n\n293\n00:12:31.020 --> 00:12:31.380\nare you\n\n294\n00:12:31.380 --> 00:12:32.820\nin acceleration mode?\n\n295\n00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:36.400\nAnd so finding what that mode is and then building that messaging triangle\n\n296\n00:12:36.400 --> 00:12:37.180\naround it,\n\n297\n00:12:37.180 --> 00:12:42.220\nthat's very simplified, it's not, it's, yes, it's conceptual, but it's action\n\n298\n00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:42.700\nable.\n\n299\n00:12:42.700 --> 00:12:47.160\nAnd then if you take those three of say, for us at Pelican, when we talk about,\n\n300\n00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:47.660\nhey, how\n\n301\n00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:49.980\ndo we, how do we reinforce what's working?\n\n302\n00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:54.380\nHow do we recalibrate in certain areas and reimagine all against what, is it\n\n303\n00:12:54.380 --> 00:12:55.140\njust share\n\n304\n00:12:55.140 --> 00:12:56.140\nof cases?\n\n305\n00:12:56.140 --> 00:12:59.300\nNo, it's going after the share of protection.\n\n306\n00:12:59.300 --> 00:13:02.380\nAnd it's conceptual, but it's also very real for us.\n\n307\n00:13:02.380 --> 00:13:07.540\nAnd re-evolution, re-imagination, that's inspiring for your people.\n\n308\n00:13:07.540 --> 00:13:11.900\nAnd as I understand at this past year, you've introduced more new products than\n\n309\n00:13:11.900 --> 00:13:12.540\nyou've done\n\n310\n00:13:12.540 --> 00:13:17.580\nin the previous 50 years, you know, and talk about those products and how you\n\n311\n00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:18.420\n're evolving\n\n312\n00:13:18.420 --> 00:13:22.780\nthis idea of protection, because you're going after a share of protection, not\n\n313\n00:13:22.780 --> 00:13:24.580\njust cases.\n\n314\n00:13:24.580 --> 00:13:28.260\nYou've re-imagined how you're your whole frame of reference.\n\n315\n00:13:28.260 --> 00:13:29.260\nThat's right.\n\n316\n00:13:29.260 --> 00:13:30.260\nYeah.\n\n317\n00:13:30.260 --> 00:13:32.860\nAnd so if you think about under those three hours, and it really has, David\n\n318\n00:13:32.860 --> 00:13:33.660\nmanifests itself,\n\n319\n00:13:33.660 --> 00:13:36.910\nwhen I go over to Europe, they present in terms of the three hours, when I talk\n\n320\n00:13:36.910 --> 00:13:37.140\nto the\n\n321\n00:13:37.140 --> 00:13:41.480\nteam, this AJC, we've really reinforced this or, hey, we've learned a little\n\n322\n00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:42.020\nbit, we're\n\n323\n00:13:42.020 --> 00:13:44.060\ngoing to recalibrate on this new product.\n\n324\n00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:50.280\nSo they've come to life now at Pelican, but what's interesting, the question of\n\n325\n00:13:50.280 --> 00:13:51.260\nnew product\n\n326\n00:13:51.260 --> 00:13:52.420\nand innovation.\n\n327\n00:13:52.420 --> 00:13:56.780\nAnd so typically what would happen in our industry is a new form factor, say a\n\n328\n00:13:56.780 --> 00:13:57.500\nnew-sized\n\n329\n00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:01.500\ndrone would come out, and then we'd make a case to fit that drone.\n\n330\n00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:03.540\nAnd that was kind of the response.\n\n331\n00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:07.740\nAnd now what we're saying is let's get way more proactive with it.\n\n332\n00:14:07.740 --> 00:14:12.100\nSo for instance, if you see an individual at an airport with a Pelican case,\n\n333\n00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:12.940\nthey typically\n\n334\n00:14:12.940 --> 00:14:17.440\nhave something valuable in it that needs to get, as a carry-on, is it a camera,\n\n335\n00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:17.860\nis it\n\n336\n00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:22.460\nsomething where they need to get the job done and accomplish the mission.\n\n337\n00:14:22.460 --> 00:14:26.470\nBut what we also recognize is that individual also has clothes that they need\n\n338\n00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:27.620\nto check in,\n\n339\n00:14:27.620 --> 00:14:30.980\nand they also have hydration, they have a phone, they have a wallet.\n\n340\n00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:35.440\nSo we said, why don't we look at not just transacting a Pelican case for a\n\n341\n00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:36.300\nspecific use\n\n342\n00:14:36.300 --> 00:14:39.020\ncase, why don't we look at a Pelican collection?\n\n343\n00:14:39.020 --> 00:14:43.930\nAnd the vision I have might not materialize this year or next year, but if you\n\n344\n00:14:43.930 --> 00:14:44.380\nwant to\n\n345\n00:14:44.380 --> 00:14:46.980\ngo on a business trip, there's plenty of luggage solutions.\n\n346\n00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:49.740\nIf you want to go on a business mission, take a Pelican.\n\n347\n00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:50.740\nAnd that's the mindset.\n\n348\n00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:54.490\nIf you want to go on an outdoor camping adventure, there's lots of products you\n\n349\n00:14:54.490 --> 00:14:55.060\ncan take.\n\n350\n00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:58.980\nYou want to take your family on an outdoor mission, take a Pelican.\n\n351\n00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:03.820\nSo we want this mission mindset not just to be for the highest level of mission\n\n352\n00:15:03.820 --> 00:15:04.820\naccomplished\n\n353\n00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:07.660\nindividuals, but bring it to more people.\n\n354\n00:15:07.660 --> 00:15:10.240\nAnd I think what we see is, for instance, in the travel world, as people are\n\n355\n00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:10.580\ngoing to\n\n356\n00:15:10.580 --> 00:15:14.960\nmore exciting destinations, more exotic, they're putting more expensive things\n\n357\n00:15:14.960 --> 00:15:16.500\nin their luggage.\n\n358\n00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:20.980\nSo why wouldn't we be a natural solution if Pelican pivoted into travel?\n\n359\n00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:26.020\nAnd I'm talking about four wheel spinners, expandable bags, check in, backpacks\n\n360\n00:15:26.020 --> 00:15:26.660\n, modular\n\n361\n00:15:26.660 --> 00:15:31.700\norganization, how do we equip individuals to accomplish their mission when they\n\n362\n00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:32.140\nmight\n\n363\n00:15:32.140 --> 00:15:35.690\nnot even know they're on a mission yet, but when they have Pelican, they feel\n\n364\n00:15:35.690 --> 00:15:37.300\nmore confident.\n\n365\n00:15:37.300 --> 00:15:38.900\nI love that.\n\n366\n00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:43.540\nAnd I've heard you say that the magic isn't in the big moments.\n\n367\n00:15:43.540 --> 00:15:46.420\nIt's in the little moments that create momentum.\n\n368\n00:15:46.420 --> 00:15:51.500\nGive me a small moment that happened at Pelican that most people might have\n\n369\n00:15:51.500 --> 00:15:52.620\noverlooked.\n\n370\n00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:57.910\nBut it told you, it told you, JC, that, hey, we're heading in the right\n\n371\n00:15:57.910 --> 00:15:59.340\ndirection, momentum\n\n372\n00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:00.420\nis building.\n\n373\n00:16:00.420 --> 00:16:01.420\nYeah.\n\n374\n00:16:01.420 --> 00:16:04.730\nSo I really, and I fundamentally believe in moments to momentum, I think in\n\n375\n00:16:04.730 --> 00:16:05.660\ntoday's world\n\n376\n00:16:05.660 --> 00:16:11.750\nof, you know, instant gratification, acceleration, bypassing, hacking solutions\n\n377\n00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:12.780\n, which are all\n\n378\n00:16:12.780 --> 00:16:16.840\nvery real dynamics that we can benefit from, but sometimes it's just the little\n\n379\n00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:17.460\nthings.\n\n380\n00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:21.190\nIt's the series of momentums that lead up to building momentum, either for an\n\n381\n00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:22.180\nindividual,\n\n382\n00:16:22.180 --> 00:16:23.780\nfor a brand, a company.\n\n383\n00:16:23.780 --> 00:16:28.490\nAnd so I'll give you an example, and it's, it was a moment, it wasn't a fun\n\n384\n00:16:28.490 --> 00:16:29.300\nmoment.\n\n385\n00:16:29.300 --> 00:16:33.660\nIt was a very challenging moment about a year ago when the Palisades fires hit\n\n386\n00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:34.780\nhere in LA.\n\n387\n00:16:34.780 --> 00:16:38.040\nAnd we are this company that works with first responders.\n\n388\n00:16:38.040 --> 00:16:42.830\nWe work with, you know, all the different agencies and, and we work with, with\n\n389\n00:16:42.830 --> 00:16:43.640\nindividuals\n\n390\n00:16:43.640 --> 00:16:45.300\nand people who just live their lives.\n\n391\n00:16:45.300 --> 00:16:49.880\nAnd so these fires hit and I thought to myself, man, I watched the pictures of\n\n392\n00:16:49.880 --> 00:16:50.860\npeople, and\n\n393\n00:16:50.860 --> 00:16:54.540\nyou saw the same things I did of people leaving with garbage bags or they had\n\n394\n00:16:54.540 --> 00:16:55.300\nno evacuation\n\n395\n00:16:55.300 --> 00:16:58.060\nplan or if they had a shelter in place, they didn't know what to do.\n\n396\n00:16:58.060 --> 00:17:01.410\nAnd, and the three things that typically happen when disaster strikes is the\n\n397\n00:17:01.410 --> 00:17:01.740\nfirst\n\n398\n00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:04.380\nthing people think is, well, it'll never happen to me.\n\n399\n00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:05.380\nAnd then it does.\n\n400\n00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:08.660\nAnd if it does, the first responders will help me and if they can't, I'll\n\n401\n00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:09.640\nfigure it out.\n\n402\n00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.420\nAnd what we recognized was, and through personal experience, I have new\n\n403\n00:17:13.420 --> 00:17:14.500\nneighbors who were\n\n404\n00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:15.500\ndisplaced.\n\n405\n00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:19.860\nI went up to the Palisades, I talked to the first responders and went to the,\n\n406\n00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:20.540\nto the site\n\n407\n00:17:20.540 --> 00:17:23.020\nwhere the first responders described what happened to me.\n\n408\n00:17:23.020 --> 00:17:28.060\nAnd I was like, at that moment, I thought, man, Pelican, we can do more, we can\n\n409\n00:17:28.060 --> 00:17:28.540\ndo more\n\n410\n00:17:28.540 --> 00:17:32.740\nto, to make every homeowner a first responder.\n\n411\n00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:37.870\nAnd so I, I came back literally from a Palisades, you know, unfortunate visit\n\n412\n00:17:37.870 --> 00:17:38.820\nto trip to see\n\n413\n00:17:38.820 --> 00:17:42.540\nthe, the apocalyptic sort of scenes that you've all seen.\n\n414\n00:17:42.540 --> 00:17:46.580\nAnd I came back to my team and said, we're going to launch Pelican prepare.\n\n415\n00:17:46.580 --> 00:17:51.620\nIt's going to be a platform for, to prepare people for evacuation or for, you\n\n416\n00:17:51.620 --> 00:17:52.660\nknow, shelter\n\n417\n00:17:52.660 --> 00:17:53.940\nin place.\n\n418\n00:17:53.940 --> 00:17:57.220\nFirst of all, it's going to be a Pelican kit, one, two, four person kit with\n\n419\n00:17:57.220 --> 00:17:58.500\nall the hydration,\n\n420\n00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:02.370\nbattery, first aid, everything you would need to shelter in place or evacuate\n\n421\n00:18:02.370 --> 00:18:02.660\nin a\n\n422\n00:18:02.660 --> 00:18:06.380\nPelican case on wheels, crush proof, dust proof, waterproof.\n\n423\n00:18:06.380 --> 00:18:10.160\nAnd the second one that we heard most was that people didn't know what to take\n\n424\n00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:10.420\nwith\n\n425\n00:18:10.420 --> 00:18:11.420\nthem.\n\n426\n00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:13.340\nIn a moment of panic, they forgot passports.\n\n427\n00:18:13.340 --> 00:18:14.340\nThey forgot wedding rings.\n\n428\n00:18:14.340 --> 00:18:15.340\nThey forgot watches.\n\n429\n00:18:15.340 --> 00:18:16.620\nThey forgot collectibles.\n\n430\n00:18:16.620 --> 00:18:21.230\nSo we created a case called Pelican valuable, where you'd pre determine what\n\n431\n00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:22.020\ngoes in it.\n\n432\n00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:26.070\nAnd in a moment's notice, you say to the family, grab the pelicans, you open it\n\n433\n00:18:26.070 --> 00:18:26.620\nup, you put\n\n434\n00:18:26.620 --> 00:18:28.500\neverything that you need valuable in it.\n\n435\n00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:32.340\nThe other one is ready to roll and two Pelican cases, you can evacuate within\n\n436\n00:18:32.340 --> 00:18:33.180\n10 minutes\n\n437\n00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:36.220\nand your Pelican prepared in a natural disaster.\n\n438\n00:18:36.220 --> 00:18:40.580\nSo that moment, unfortunate moment turned into a product, solution and\n\n439\n00:18:40.580 --> 00:18:41.380\ninnovation.\n\n440\n00:18:41.380 --> 00:18:45.920\nAnd if I asked you, David, are you prepared at home and in the event of you,\n\n441\n00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.620\nmaybe?\n\n442\n00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:48.860\nBut 95% of people aren't.\n\n443\n00:18:48.860 --> 00:18:52.700\nAnd then if you say, well, what brand is synonymous with the most important\n\n444\n00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:53.140\nmoment in\n\n445\n00:18:53.140 --> 00:18:55.740\nyour family's life, which is saving them.\n\n446\n00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:58.890\nAnd you say, well, there really isn't one, well, why couldn't it be Pelican in\n\n447\n00:18:58.890 --> 00:18:59.980\nthe future?\n\n448\n00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:02.020\nThat's a little moment.\n\n449\n00:19:02.020 --> 00:19:07.540\nActually, in many, to everybody that was impacted, it was a huge moment.\n\n450\n00:19:07.540 --> 00:19:11.950\nHow did you come back, come back to your team and make that little moment, a\n\n451\n00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:12.700\nbig moment\n\n452\n00:19:12.700 --> 00:19:15.060\nfor you guys in terms of how you proceeded?\n\n453\n00:19:15.060 --> 00:19:16.060\nYeah.\n\n454\n00:19:16.060 --> 00:19:18.940\nAnd it started to double click on the story.\n\n455\n00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:22.630\nOne of my new neighbors all of a sudden cross the street where I live in\n\n456\n00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:23.780\nSouthern L.A.\n\n457\n00:19:23.780 --> 00:19:26.900\nAnd it was a family and they moved in and I said, oh, welcome to the\n\n458\n00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:27.580\nneighborhood.\n\n459\n00:19:27.580 --> 00:19:30.020\nThey said, yeah, we lost everything and I realized at that moment.\n\n460\n00:19:30.020 --> 00:19:34.580\nAnd so I would chat with them and we talked to them about what it was like and\n\n461\n00:19:34.580 --> 00:19:35.060\nall of\n\n462\n00:19:35.060 --> 00:19:36.060\nthat.\n\n463\n00:19:36.060 --> 00:19:41.940\nAnd I realized that it's one thing to protect a camera or someone's going\n\n464\n00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:43.180\nhunting or someone's\n\n465\n00:19:43.180 --> 00:19:44.180\nusing our equipment.\n\n466\n00:19:44.180 --> 00:19:49.540\nIt's another thing to actually play a role in making a family more confident as\n\n467\n00:19:49.540 --> 00:19:50.220\na result\n\n468\n00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:52.020\nof protecting the family.\n\n469\n00:19:52.020 --> 00:19:56.430\nAnd if we say protecting all you value, and you and I would say, well, we value\n\n470\n00:19:56.430 --> 00:19:57.260\nour family\n\n471\n00:19:57.260 --> 00:19:58.820\nand our memories most.\n\n472\n00:19:58.820 --> 00:20:02.060\nSo that's what I came back with was like, we got to help families and we got to\n\n473\n00:20:02.060 --> 00:20:02.540\nprotect\n\n474\n00:20:02.540 --> 00:20:05.500\nmemories and we know we know we have a solution to do it.\n\n475\n00:20:05.500 --> 00:20:10.230\nWe also, the other thing we have is all first responders, they would back this\n\n476\n00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:11.020\nbecause there's\n\n477\n00:20:11.020 --> 00:20:12.420\nnever going to be enough of them.\n\n478\n00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:15.720\nSo we've worked with the first responder community and say, you know, what if\n\n479\n00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:16.300\nwe brought the\n\n480\n00:20:16.300 --> 00:20:17.300\nsolution up?\n\n481\n00:20:17.300 --> 00:20:21.010\nThey said, well, you would help us enable everyone else to be their own first\n\n482\n00:20:21.010 --> 00:20:21.780\nresponder.\n\n483\n00:20:21.780 --> 00:20:26.570\nSo when I came back to the team, I don't think anyone, the shocker was not the\n\n484\n00:20:26.570 --> 00:20:27.180\nidea.\n\n485\n00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.340\nI think the shocker was the pace at which I wanted to go at.\n\n486\n00:20:30.340 --> 00:20:36.500\nAnd we traditionally operated a relatively, you know, slow pace because there's\n\n487\n00:20:36.500 --> 00:20:37.140\nno such\n\n488\n00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:40.090\nthing as protective case sees and it's not like you have to, if you're in the\n\n489\n00:20:40.090 --> 00:20:40.740\ntoy business\n\n490\n00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:45.530\nand you miss December, you miss the moment, you know, so, so for us, we'd been\n\n491\n00:20:45.530 --> 00:20:46.100\nused to\n\n492\n00:20:46.100 --> 00:20:48.780\nthis relatively slow pace of product introduction.\n\n493\n00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:52.340\nI said, in a hundred days, we're launching Pelican prepare and the team was\n\n494\n00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:53.380\nlike, what\n\n495\n00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:54.380\nis it?\n\n496\n00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:56.300\nI said, that's exactly the task at hand.\n\n497\n00:20:56.300 --> 00:20:59.660\nAnd in a hundred days, we set up on our innovation lab here in Torrance,\n\n498\n00:20:59.660 --> 00:21:00.580\nCalifornia, we've got\n\n499\n00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:04.030\nall the cases, we set it all up, we put red handles on it, we worked with a\n\n500\n00:21:04.030 --> 00:21:04.820\ncompany called\n\n501\n00:21:04.820 --> 00:21:08.820\nred fora, which is ready for anything to determine what goes inside of it.\n\n502\n00:21:08.820 --> 00:21:13.180\nWe got first responders involved, we tested it all out and we launched it in\n\n503\n00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:13.740\nless than\n\n504\n00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:14.740\na hundred days.\n\n505\n00:21:14.740 --> 00:21:20.590\nNow, here you are, I also, my research, you describe yourself as patiently\n\n506\n00:21:20.590 --> 00:21:21.820\naggressive.\n\n507\n00:21:21.820 --> 00:21:22.820\nYeah.\n\n508\n00:21:22.820 --> 00:21:23.820\nYeah.\n\n509\n00:21:23.820 --> 00:21:25.180\nNow, first of all, explain what you mean by that.\n\n510\n00:21:25.180 --> 00:21:28.300\nAnd then how did you, how do you reconcile that with that kind of sense of\n\n511\n00:21:28.300 --> 00:21:28.900\nurgency?\n\n512\n00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.740\nWhen do you know when to put the pedal to the metal?\n\n513\n00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.700\nYeah, that's a great segue to it.\n\n514\n00:21:33.700 --> 00:21:38.400\nSo I fundamentally, it's probably we've, and it's not something that, that I\n\n515\n00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:38.820\nread, you\n\n516\n00:21:38.820 --> 00:21:41.980\nknow, years ago and applied and it's something I learned in some ways, the hard\n\n517\n00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:42.380\nway.\n\n518\n00:21:42.380 --> 00:21:47.070\nAnd I think if you ask an audience of leaders or just even people that can be,\n\n519\n00:21:47.070 --> 00:21:48.020\nand everyone's\n\n520\n00:21:48.020 --> 00:21:52.560\na leader of some sort and say, who here has made a decision too quickly and\n\n521\n00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:54.220\nregretted it?\n\n522\n00:21:54.220 --> 00:21:55.220\nEveryone's hands goes up.\n\n523\n00:21:55.220 --> 00:21:59.610\nYou say, okay, who in this room has known they needed to make a decision, you\n\n524\n00:21:59.610 --> 00:22:00.180\nhad the\n\n525\n00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:04.070\ninformation, the insight and your gut told you to make it, but you, you delayed\n\n526\n00:22:04.070 --> 00:22:04.420\nit and\n\n527\n00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:06.180\nyou waited too long.\n\n528\n00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:07.340\nEveryone's hand goes up.\n\n529\n00:22:07.340 --> 00:22:11.460\nAnd so what's the difference is understanding this notion of, of this mindset\n\n530\n00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:12.620\nof being aggressively\n\n531\n00:22:12.620 --> 00:22:15.460\npatient or patient, patiently aggressive.\n\n532\n00:22:15.460 --> 00:22:19.100\nIf you've set the right conditions for success to be aggressive, then get after\n\n533\n00:22:19.100 --> 00:22:19.460\nit.\n\n534\n00:22:19.460 --> 00:22:23.080\nIf you haven't exercising a little patience, and so for instance, on this one\n\n535\n00:22:23.080 --> 00:22:23.780\nwith Pelican\n\n536\n00:22:23.780 --> 00:22:29.810\nprepare, we had the cases, David, we had, we had the zeitgeist moment of, of\n\n537\n00:22:29.810 --> 00:22:30.420\npain in\n\n538\n00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:31.420\nour community.\n\n539\n00:22:31.420 --> 00:22:36.150\nAnd we had an inevitable solution that the only thing stopping it from getting\n\n540\n00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:36.820\nto market\n\n541\n00:22:36.820 --> 00:22:38.580\nwas our energy on it.\n\n542\n00:22:38.580 --> 00:22:41.580\nSo the conditions for success were there.\n\n543\n00:22:41.580 --> 00:22:42.980\nAnd so we did it.\n\n544\n00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:47.640\nIf I, I'm looking at another situation with, when people are saying, hey, could\n\n545\n00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:48.380\nwe do more\n\n546\n00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:49.380\nhere?\n\n547\n00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:54.060\nI'm saying, yes, we probably could, but let's pace ourselves in terms of our\n\n548\n00:22:54.060 --> 00:22:55.340\nlighting division.\n\n549\n00:22:55.340 --> 00:22:56.860\nSo there's so much happening.\n\n550\n00:22:56.860 --> 00:22:59.260\nWe do lights and we do remote area lighting.\n\n551\n00:22:59.260 --> 00:23:02.540\nWe do a lot of the different light systems and solutions.\n\n552\n00:23:02.540 --> 00:23:07.330\nSo one of the things we talked about said, why don't we put lights in our cases\n\n553\n00:23:07.330 --> 00:23:07.660\n?\n\n554\n00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:10.560\nAnd someone said, well, because, because it's like, let's, let's be a little\n\n555\n00:23:10.560 --> 00:23:10.980\npatient\n\n556\n00:23:10.980 --> 00:23:12.340\nand develop the right solution.\n\n557\n00:23:12.340 --> 00:23:17.180\nSo over the last year, we developed what we call now the mod light, which slots\n\n558\n00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:17.580\ninto\n\n559\n00:23:17.580 --> 00:23:22.370\nthe case, it pulls out, it lights up your case, it comes out, it can go onto a\n\n560\n00:23:22.370 --> 00:23:23.100\nlanyard,\n\n561\n00:23:23.100 --> 00:23:26.460\nit's magnetic, but that wasn't, there wasn't a sense of urgency to get that out\n\n562\n00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:26.740\n.\n\n563\n00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:32.200\nSo I let the team pace themselves over a year to be patient, but arrive at the\n\n564\n00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:33.820\nright solution\n\n565\n00:23:33.820 --> 00:23:38.380\nversus Pelican preparer was be aggressive and get people to a safer place\n\n566\n00:23:38.380 --> 00:23:39.140\nfaster.\n\n567\n00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:43.520\nSo JC, I don't know you real well, we just, we just met here, but, you know,\n\n568\n00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:44.780\nyou are one\n\n569\n00:23:44.780 --> 00:23:45.780\ncreative guy.\n\n570\n00:23:45.780 --> 00:23:49.300\nI mean, you got ideas just coming out of your union, I mean, it's not coming\n\n571\n00:23:49.300 --> 00:23:50.140\nout.\n\n572\n00:23:50.140 --> 00:23:51.540\nThey emanate from you.\n\n573\n00:23:51.540 --> 00:23:56.660\nI would just wonder, you know, looking back, did you have some hard lessons?\n\n574\n00:23:56.660 --> 00:24:00.600\nOn how to manage your creativity because sometimes you can be, I used to say\n\n575\n00:24:00.600 --> 00:24:01.980\nfor me, if somebody\n\n576\n00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:05.990\nleft me in the office for a day, oh my God, I'd come out with so many ideas\n\n577\n00:24:05.990 --> 00:24:06.780\nthat, and\n\n578\n00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:11.660\nI'd want to execute them before we really had executed what needed to be done\n\n579\n00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:12.380\nfirst.\n\n580\n00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:17.170\nHow do you control your creativity and the idea of pacing and sequencing for\n\n581\n00:24:17.170 --> 00:24:18.060\noutstanding\n\n582\n00:24:18.060 --> 00:24:19.060\nexecution?\n\n583\n00:24:19.060 --> 00:24:23.850\nI had the fortune of becoming a CEO relatively early on when I was at Solomon\n\n584\n00:24:23.850 --> 00:24:24.860\nand I remember\n\n585\n00:24:24.860 --> 00:24:29.220\ncoming from Europe back to North America beat to be the CEO of Solomon North\n\n586\n00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:29.620\nAmerica.\n\n587\n00:24:29.620 --> 00:24:33.420\nAnd I was like, I was, you know, it's daunting, but I'm excited, you know, that\n\n588\n00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:34.180\nmoment where\n\n589\n00:24:34.180 --> 00:24:39.220\nyou first are like, and I remember this, this individual who, who was, I was\n\n590\n00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:39.940\ntaking over\n\n591\n00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:46.060\nfrom amazing individual and he, he wasn't in the job, I wasn't replacing him.\n\n592\n00:24:46.060 --> 00:24:49.340\nHe was just the custodian of the role till I got there.\n\n593\n00:24:49.340 --> 00:24:55.730\nAnd so, and he, he said to me, said, JC, just remember as a CEO that your, your\n\n594\n00:24:55.730 --> 00:24:56.460\nwhisper\n\n595\n00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:57.980\nis a shout.\n\n596\n00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:02.340\nSo whatever you say and whoever you say it to understand that they might take\n\n597\n00:25:02.340 --> 00:25:02.740\nthat as\n\n598\n00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:05.740\neither an action plan or an expectation.\n\n599\n00:25:05.740 --> 00:25:10.860\nAnd so I've tended to be very as energized as I want to be.\n\n600\n00:25:10.860 --> 00:25:13.500\nI tend to try to keep people focused in priority.\n\n601\n00:25:13.500 --> 00:25:16.220\nYou know, this notion of keep the main thing, the main thing.\n\n602\n00:25:16.220 --> 00:25:20.040\nAnd to do that, developing an organizing principle, for instance, at Pelican\n\n603\n00:25:20.040 --> 00:25:21.380\naround, hey, folks,\n\n604\n00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:25.110\nwhat are we reinforcing, like our core business, we reinforce, what are we\n\n605\n00:25:25.110 --> 00:25:26.060\nrecalibrating and\n\n606\n00:25:26.060 --> 00:25:28.740\nthen earn the right to reimagine.\n\n607\n00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:32.600\nIf everyone stays in reimagine, we're, we're basically going to be having\n\n608\n00:25:32.600 --> 00:25:33.980\nunicorn and rainbows\n\n609\n00:25:33.980 --> 00:25:39.270\nand all that stuff chasing it down the path and we're not that company or that\n\n610\n00:25:39.270 --> 00:25:39.900\nbrand.\n\n611\n00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:43.660\nSo, and the other side of it, I think, which is important for leaders too, and\n\n612\n00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:44.180\nwe don't\n\n613\n00:25:44.180 --> 00:25:46.500\nknow each other, but I love the creative side.\n\n614\n00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:49.650\nI love the brand building, the culture building, and I've got a track record of\n\n615\n00:25:49.650 --> 00:25:50.100\nthat.\n\n616\n00:25:50.100 --> 00:25:55.000\nBut what other folks may not see is, you know, I, I did a dual major in\n\n617\n00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:57.180\nmarketing and finance.\n\n618\n00:25:57.180 --> 00:26:01.020\nWhen I went back to do executive education, I did strategic financial\n\n619\n00:26:01.020 --> 00:26:03.180\nmanagement and planning.\n\n620\n00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:08.470\nAnd so really trying to understand the causal professional link between the\n\n621\n00:26:08.470 --> 00:26:09.740\ncreative mindset\n\n622\n00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:14.360\nactions and with actionable intent on product and how that flows through to the\n\n623\n00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:14.940\ncontext\n\n624\n00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:20.940\nof your financial expectations, results, and trajectory are critical.\n\n625\n00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:25.030\nAnd you've seen it go really, really wrong when the creatives are so creative\n\n626\n00:26:25.030 --> 00:26:25.660\nthat it's\n\n627\n00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:31.020\nnot in service to the business or the business, the financials demand too much,\n\n628\n00:26:31.020 --> 00:26:32.060\nyou know, growth\n\n629\n00:26:32.060 --> 00:26:34.660\nout of non creativity.\n\n630\n00:26:34.660 --> 00:26:38.740\nGetting that balance right of creative and commercial, I think, is critical.\n\n631\n00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:43.140\nAnd if, if as a leader, you can balance that mindset, then you earn the right\n\n632\n00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:43.700\nto be in\n\n633\n00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:46.580\nthe role of a CEO, I think, to balance those two.\n\n634\n00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:47.580\nHi, friends.\n\n635\n00:26:47.580 --> 00:26:49.780\nI hope you're enjoying this conversation so far.\n\n636\n00:26:49.780 --> 00:26:52.460\nAs always, stay tuned to the very end of the episode.\n\n637\n00:26:52.460 --> 00:26:56.210\nDavid and I will be debriefing some of the concepts that he speaks about in\n\n638\n00:26:56.210 --> 00:26:57.300\nthis conversation\n\n639\n00:26:57.300 --> 00:27:01.240\nto give you something really practical you can use right away in your life and\n\n640\n00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:01.700\nin your\n\n641\n00:27:01.700 --> 00:27:02.700\nleadership.\n\n642\n00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:05.860\nStay tuned to the debrief, and I will see you in a bit.\n\n643\n00:27:05.860 --> 00:27:10.990\nEarlier, you talked about the importance of conditions, and you say you can't\n\n644\n00:27:10.990 --> 00:27:11.740\nguarantee\n\n645\n00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:17.820\nsuccess, but you can guarantee better conditions for success.\n\n646\n00:27:17.820 --> 00:27:19.500\nWhat does that mean practically?\n\n647\n00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.500\nOkay.\n\n648\n00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:24.310\nLet's go back to a year ago, David, and when we, you know, everyone comes into\n\n649\n00:27:24.310 --> 00:27:25.060\na new year\n\n650\n00:27:25.060 --> 00:27:28.500\nand says, oh, that's going to be a great new year, 2025.\n\n651\n00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.220\nAll of a sudden, there's a little change in the administration.\n\n652\n00:27:31.220 --> 00:27:32.380\nWe heard things like Doge.\n\n653\n00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:33.500\nWe heard things like Terrace.\n\n654\n00:27:33.500 --> 00:27:38.360\nWe heard all these dynamics unfolded last year, and there were a lot of them\n\n655\n00:27:38.360 --> 00:27:40.020\nwere uncontrollables,\n\n656\n00:27:40.020 --> 00:27:44.380\nbut at the same time as a leader and as a team, I often would ask, you know,\n\n657\n00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:44.900\nwho here\n\n658\n00:27:44.900 --> 00:27:48.580\ncan guarantee success in the future, and no one puts their hand up.\n\n659\n00:27:48.580 --> 00:27:52.140\nAnd I said, but as leaders, we should be able to guarantee we can set better\n\n660\n00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:52.820\nconditions\n\n661\n00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:54.220\nfor success.\n\n662\n00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:56.940\nAnd those are having a clear vision and strategy.\n\n663\n00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:00.460\nIt's having the right leaders in place for the mode that you're in.\n\n664\n00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:05.300\nI think it's prioritizing and pacing and setting those conditions for success.\n\n665\n00:28:05.300 --> 00:28:08.660\nAnd if they happen to come a little sooner, you're ready for it.\n\n666\n00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:12.750\nIf it takes a little longer, you have to be patient, but you're, it's not\n\n667\n00:28:12.750 --> 00:28:13.580\nbecause your\n\n668\n00:28:13.580 --> 00:28:15.220\nstate of readiness isn't there.\n\n669\n00:28:15.220 --> 00:28:17.940\nIt's because the market dynamics or the conditions aren't there.\n\n670\n00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:21.380\nSo setting the conditions for success, I think, is critical.\n\n671\n00:28:21.380 --> 00:28:25.410\nAnd I often use a lot of sports analogies and, you know, if you think about a\n\n672\n00:28:25.410 --> 00:28:25.980\nteam, not\n\n673\n00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:29.700\nevery team is going to win the Super Bowl, but typically those that have set\n\n674\n00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:30.180\nthe best\n\n675\n00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:34.640\nconditions for success over time with the game plan, the right team in place,\n\n676\n00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:35.340\nthe right\n\n677\n00:28:35.340 --> 00:28:38.940\nleadership on and off the field, a little bit of luck here and there.\n\n678\n00:28:38.940 --> 00:28:44.070\nBut it's amazing how luck favors those who are well positioned and have set\n\n679\n00:28:44.070 --> 00:28:44.980\nconditions\n\n680\n00:28:44.980 --> 00:28:45.980\nfor success.\n\n681\n00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:51.750\nI've heard you also talk about the difference between invested synergy and\n\n682\n00:28:51.750 --> 00:28:54.380\ninspired synergy.\n\n683\n00:28:54.380 --> 00:28:55.380\nExplain.\n\n684\n00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:59.100\nWell, actually, it's a little twist on that.\n\n685\n00:28:59.100 --> 00:29:03.060\nSo it's one of the things I call inverted synergy.\n\n686\n00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:06.940\nSo inverted synergy, and I've seen it happen in places.\n\n687\n00:29:06.940 --> 00:29:08.700\nI think I came up with a term.\n\n688\n00:29:08.700 --> 00:29:09.700\nGood point.\n\n689\n00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:11.380\nSometimes I can't read my own writing.\n\n690\n00:29:11.380 --> 00:29:12.380\nYeah.\n\n691\n00:29:12.380 --> 00:29:13.380\nNo, no.\n\n692\n00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:14.380\nI like it.\n\n693\n00:29:14.380 --> 00:29:16.500\nI'm going to, I might take that invested synergy.\n\n694\n00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.500\nThat's my third eye.\n\n695\n00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:23.130\nI can go invested, inverted, and inspired, but it happened to me when I was at,\n\n696\n00:29:23.130 --> 00:29:23.580\nwhen, when\n\n697\n00:29:23.580 --> 00:29:29.280\nI joined Levi's and Levi's chosen company in 2012, it was going through a\n\n698\n00:29:29.280 --> 00:29:30.220\nrelatively\n\n699\n00:29:30.220 --> 00:29:31.460\nflattish time.\n\n700\n00:29:31.460 --> 00:29:35.540\nIt wasn't losing, but it wasn't leading it, taking its leadership for granted.\n\n701\n00:29:35.540 --> 00:29:39.300\nAnd I got there and I recognized like, well, you know, this is Levi's.\n\n702\n00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:43.750\nThis is a company that invented the blue jeans synonymous with some of the, you\n\n703\n00:29:43.750 --> 00:29:44.740\nknow, moments\n\n704\n00:29:44.740 --> 00:29:49.450\nover time from gold miners to cowboys to, you know, cool people in Hollywood\n\n705\n00:29:49.450 --> 00:29:50.060\nand rock\n\n706\n00:29:50.060 --> 00:29:54.000\nand roll wearing Levi's and, and I get to Levi's in 2012 and I'm like, I don't\n\n707\n00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:54.700\nunderstand\n\n708\n00:29:54.700 --> 00:30:00.150\nwhat, what is, what's happening here to this iconic brand that it's still a\n\n709\n00:30:00.150 --> 00:30:01.620\nleader in jeans,\n\n710\n00:30:01.620 --> 00:30:03.460\nbut it doesn't feel like it's leading.\n\n711\n00:30:03.460 --> 00:30:08.360\nAnd I, I came up with this concept of it had inverted synergy where it was\n\n712\n00:30:08.360 --> 00:30:09.220\nupside down\n\n713\n00:30:09.220 --> 00:30:14.140\nwhere the whole of Levi's was less than the sum of its parts.\n\n714\n00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:18.210\nAnd so, so that vision of, and it's a bit of a rally cry to say, guys, like, we\n\n715\n00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:18.620\nhave\n\n716\n00:30:18.620 --> 00:30:19.620\neverything we need.\n\n717\n00:30:19.620 --> 00:30:24.070\nWe just have to actually look at each of these dimensions and make it matter\n\n718\n00:30:24.070 --> 00:30:24.660\nmore.\n\n719\n00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:28.700\nAnd so going from this notion of inverted synergy where the whole is less than\n\n720\n00:30:28.700 --> 00:30:29.140\nthe sum\n\n721\n00:30:29.140 --> 00:30:33.540\nof its parts, how do you set the conditions for success to get inspired synergy\n\n722\n00:30:33.540 --> 00:30:33.940\nwhere\n\n723\n00:30:33.940 --> 00:30:38.740\nthe whole of Levi's or of any brand is greater than the sum of its parts?\n\n724\n00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:42.480\nAnd if you, if you think about the brands we know and love that often they\n\n725\n00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:43.120\nreach that\n\n726\n00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:47.130\nstatus of inspired synergy where the whole of the brand is greater than the sum\n\n727\n00:30:47.130 --> 00:30:47.540\nof all\n\n728\n00:30:47.540 --> 00:30:48.540\nof its parts.\n\n729\n00:30:48.540 --> 00:30:49.540\nYeah.\n\n730\n00:30:49.540 --> 00:30:55.500\nAnd you know, you, you set at the top how you, how Pelican helps people on\n\n731\n00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:56.260\ntheir, their\n\n732\n00:30:56.260 --> 00:30:58.500\ncritical missions, okay?\n\n733\n00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:02.700\nWhen you look at yourself, JC as a leader, what's mission critical to you now?\n\n734\n00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:07.120\nI mean, what, what lever do you have to pull or get better at to take your own\n\n735\n00:31:07.120 --> 00:31:08.020\nperformance\n\n736\n00:31:08.020 --> 00:31:09.340\nto the next level?\n\n737\n00:31:09.340 --> 00:31:13.820\nAnd how do you, how do you go about evaluating that if you do?\n\n738\n00:31:13.820 --> 00:31:18.860\nOne of the first things I like to do is as set expectations for all your\n\n739\n00:31:18.860 --> 00:31:20.260\nstakeholders.\n\n740\n00:31:20.260 --> 00:31:23.710\nNot just, I think as we're, when we're younger in our leadership career, you\n\n741\n00:31:23.710 --> 00:31:24.860\ntend to hone\n\n742\n00:31:24.860 --> 00:31:28.860\nin either on the investors or on your leadership team or on the board or on\n\n743\n00:31:28.860 --> 00:31:30.220\njust your customers.\n\n744\n00:31:30.220 --> 00:31:34.830\nAnd I think stepping back and recognizing that in today's, you know, modern\n\n745\n00:31:34.830 --> 00:31:35.620\nworld of being\n\n746\n00:31:35.620 --> 00:31:42.580\na CEO, there are multiple stakeholders that have expectations and assessing,\n\n747\n00:31:42.580 --> 00:31:43.420\nand you don't\n\n748\n00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:47.810\nhave to take days and days with a strategic offsite to step back and say, okay,\n\n749\n00:31:47.810 --> 00:31:48.300\ninvestors\n\n750\n00:31:48.300 --> 00:31:52.090\nare looking for a return, customers are looking for solutions and scaled\n\n751\n00:31:52.090 --> 00:31:52.820\nservice.\n\n752\n00:31:52.820 --> 00:31:54.540\nThe community is looking for support.\n\n753\n00:31:54.540 --> 00:32:00.170\nThe team is looking for vision and inspired actionable plans to, for them to\n\n754\n00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:00.940\ngrow as an\n\n755\n00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:02.620\nindividual, to grow with the company.\n\n756\n00:32:02.620 --> 00:32:07.160\nAnd so one of the first things I've learned is really assess the, the state of\n\n757\n00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:08.220\nyour stakeholder\n\n758\n00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:12.700\nbase and understand if you set expectations for each will it actually meet or\n\n759\n00:32:12.700 --> 00:32:13.940\nexceed theirs.\n\n760\n00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:17.740\nAnd I think that's an important one is, is aligning on expectations.\n\n761\n00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:20.940\nAnd you've seen or you've heard the, you know, the story of if you're just a\n\n762\n00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:21.600\nfew degrees\n\n763\n00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:25.960\noff with your investors in terms of expectations and you go down the path, you\n\n764\n00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:26.540\ncan be miles\n\n765\n00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:27.860\naway a year later.\n\n766\n00:32:27.860 --> 00:32:32.740\nSo setting expectations and aligning on expectations I think are really\n\n767\n00:32:32.740 --> 00:32:33.740\nimportant.\n\n768\n00:32:33.740 --> 00:32:38.050\nAnd it does something else, David, it avoids the difficult conversations down\n\n769\n00:32:38.050 --> 00:32:38.580\nthe road.\n\n770\n00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:42.400\nShow me a difficult conversation where you have to relieve someone of their\n\n771\n00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:43.260\nduties because\n\n772\n00:32:43.260 --> 00:32:45.940\nit's a performance issues or something else.\n\n773\n00:32:45.940 --> 00:32:50.140\nIt's because you didn't have the aligned expectations at the beginning.\n\n774\n00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:53.660\nAnd so that's one of the first ones is aligning on expectations.\n\n775\n00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:57.140\nI think the second one is also be an active listener.\n\n776\n00:32:57.140 --> 00:33:01.820\nI do have a lot to say I take up a little oxygen in an animated room, but that\n\n777\n00:33:01.820 --> 00:33:02.360\n's the\n\n778\n00:33:02.360 --> 00:33:03.360\nenergy side.\n\n779\n00:33:03.360 --> 00:33:07.850\nBut how do you also convert that to active listening and in today's world,\n\n780\n00:33:07.850 --> 00:33:08.660\nthere's so\n\n781\n00:33:08.660 --> 00:33:09.660\nmuch noise.\n\n782\n00:33:09.660 --> 00:33:13.060\nHow do you put the, I always call it wherever I am here, it's the Pelican noise\n\n783\n00:33:13.060 --> 00:33:13.820\ncancellation\n\n784\n00:33:13.820 --> 00:33:14.820\nheadphones.\n\n785\n00:33:14.820 --> 00:33:18.480\nLet's put those on team and look for the signal of what we should be priorit\n\n786\n00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:19.060\nizing.\n\n787\n00:33:19.060 --> 00:33:23.430\nAnd oftentimes when we have that group exercise, we arrive at the right\n\n788\n00:33:23.430 --> 00:33:25.300\nconclusion of prioritizing\n\n789\n00:33:25.300 --> 00:33:27.940\nand then looking at the potential.\n\n790\n00:33:27.940 --> 00:33:32.300\nHow do you step back, JC, so that you really go through that analysis so that\n\n791\n00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.840\nwhen you\n\n792\n00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:36.960\ngo into a year or whenever that period is that you say, hey, this is how I'm\n\n793\n00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:37.480\ngoing to\n\n794\n00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:39.840\nshape myself as I go forward.\n\n795\n00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:46.560\nSo I mean, a lot of CEOs, they have a coach or they get 360 degree reviews and\n\n796\n00:33:46.560 --> 00:33:47.280\nthat.\n\n797\n00:33:47.280 --> 00:33:53.280\nI've had enough of those in the past, all varying degrees of I would call\n\n798\n00:33:53.280 --> 00:33:54.320\nsuccess.\n\n799\n00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:58.040\nBut now I don't need to wait for that as an experience.\n\n800\n00:33:58.040 --> 00:34:01.760\nI don't need to wait for the 360 or necessarily for the coach.\n\n801\n00:34:01.760 --> 00:34:04.480\nI proactively pursue that.\n\n802\n00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.250\nI'll talk to, I think it's important, you know, if you have a board, if you're\n\n803\n00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:09.000\nonly meeting\n\n804\n00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.890\nwith your board on prescribed calendar time, then you're probably not getting\n\n805\n00:34:13.890 --> 00:34:14.480\nthe best\n\n806\n00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:15.480\nuse out of that board.\n\n807\n00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:20.840\nAs an example, I often have chats and talks and off calendar board\n\n808\n00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:22.760\nconversations with some\n\n809\n00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:26.580\nof our operating partners or our board members to get feedback or to align or\n\n810\n00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:27.460\nwith something\n\n811\n00:34:27.460 --> 00:34:28.460\nisn't quite right.\n\n812\n00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:32.120\nI said, we can't agree to disagree on the big things in the room, so let's\n\n813\n00:34:32.120 --> 00:34:32.760\nsolve those\n\n814\n00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:33.760\nin advance.\n\n815\n00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:38.330\nAnd so being proactive in setting up those sort of micro relationship moments\n\n816\n00:34:38.330 --> 00:34:38.920\nwhere you're\n\n817\n00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:43.400\nconstantly aligning, setting expectations and learning.\n\n818\n00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:47.170\nYou know, if you're working with private equity, I mean, in a company that's\n\n819\n00:34:47.170 --> 00:34:47.680\nseen, they've\n\n820\n00:34:47.680 --> 00:34:52.620\nseen every dynamic of business, so not confronting the reality of your\n\n821\n00:34:52.620 --> 00:34:54.600\nchallenge to them, you're\n\n822\n00:34:54.600 --> 00:34:56.000\nwasting everyone's time.\n\n823\n00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.040\nYou put it together with them, they can say, oh, we've been in this situation,\n\n824\n00:34:59.040 --> 00:34:59.520\nwe can help\n\n825\n00:34:59.520 --> 00:35:00.520\nyou more.\n\n826\n00:35:00.520 --> 00:35:06.150\nSo I would say that being proactive and getting feedback, and of course you\n\n827\n00:35:06.150 --> 00:35:07.000\nhave to, again,\n\n828\n00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.690\nback to that setting conditions for success, I think one of the things my team\n\n829\n00:35:09.690 --> 00:35:10.120\nwould say\n\n830\n00:35:10.120 --> 00:35:14.420\nis that, JC is super approachable, he doesn't judge, but he expects you to come\n\n831\n00:35:14.420 --> 00:35:14.800\nin with\n\n832\n00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:20.640\na point of view that you can defend, and so I think being approachable and\n\n833\n00:35:20.640 --> 00:35:21.560\nbeing open\n\n834\n00:35:21.560 --> 00:35:25.890\nto feedback and different points of view and, quite frankly, challenging some\n\n835\n00:35:25.890 --> 00:35:26.600\nof the decisions\n\n836\n00:35:26.600 --> 00:35:29.480\nI make makes me a stronger leader.\n\n837\n00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.730\nBut building that trust and that team around you, it takes a little time, but\n\n838\n00:35:32.730 --> 00:35:33.440\nwhen you get\n\n839\n00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:38.050\nit, that's where I think the leadership momentum happens, not just for me, but\n\n840\n00:35:38.050 --> 00:35:38.780\nfor the team\n\n841\n00:35:38.780 --> 00:35:39.780\naround me.\n\n842\n00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:42.900\nAnd, you know, stepping back and really assessing that helps you get there and,\n\n843\n00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:43.720\nyou know, speaking\n\n844\n00:35:43.720 --> 00:35:47.520\nand stepping back, I want to take you way back, you know, what's the story from\n\n845\n00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:47.820\nyour\n\n846\n00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:52.480\nchildhood, okay, that really shaped the kind of leader you are today?\n\n847\n00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:56.380\nWell, often when I introduce myself and it's very real for me, I mean, I grew\n\n848\n00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:57.240\nup in a military\n\n849\n00:35:57.240 --> 00:36:03.740\nfamily, my father was a naval aviator and very successful in the 40 years\n\n850\n00:36:03.740 --> 00:36:04.760\nmilitary and\n\n851\n00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:08.800\nhe would describe himself as a peacekeeper, so picture this on one side\n\n852\n00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:10.320\nmilitary upbringing.\n\n853\n00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:15.950\nMy mother is a free spirit from Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, musician,\n\n854\n00:36:15.950 --> 00:36:17.440\ncommunity leader,\n\n855\n00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:22.280\njust an unbelievable one, she's 88 years old, strong, she sent me an update\n\n856\n00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:23.320\nfrom the weekend\n\n857\n00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:28.360\nthat she's still playing guitar, she runs the movie theater, she did, went to\n\n858\n00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:28.960\nthe dance\n\n859\n00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:36.640\nhall, so she's this unbelievable, energized, you know, yes, my mother, but also\n\n860\n00:36:36.640 --> 00:36:37.280\njust in\n\n861\n00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:41.200\nlife, she's led through so many different dynamics with my father.\n\n862\n00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:44.920\nWe moved every three years and she would just go right into the situation,\n\n863\n00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:46.200\nlearn the language,\n\n864\n00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:48.200\nmove the family, set up for success.\n\n865\n00:36:48.200 --> 00:36:53.310\nSo I grew up in this military family, but this free spirit dynamic as well, and\n\n866\n00:36:53.310 --> 00:36:53.920\nso that's\n\n867\n00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.970\nwhat you get with me, not afraid to be a leader in the military, but at the\n\n868\n00:36:57.970 --> 00:36:58.800\nsame time, you\n\n869\n00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.440\nknow, not afraid of the free spirit.\n\n870\n00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:03.440\nSo that's that literally I that's my DNA.\n\n871\n00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:08.490\nAnd so growing up, I have an identical twin brother, so that comes with a whole\n\n872\n00:37:08.490 --> 00:37:08.920\nhost of\n\n873\n00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:12.490\ndynamics when you've got someone who's literally we're mirror twins, right,\n\n874\n00:37:12.490 --> 00:37:13.240\nidentical.\n\n875\n00:37:13.240 --> 00:37:16.400\nSo whether we got into trouble, it was always the twins.\n\n876\n00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.680\nAnd then, but, you know, we took different paths along the way.\n\n877\n00:37:20.680 --> 00:37:26.380\nAnd so growing up, we were absolutely, I would say, privileged to grow up in a\n\n878\n00:37:26.380 --> 00:37:27.200\nmilitary\n\n879\n00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:29.840\nbackground where we were always the new kids.\n\n880\n00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:34.770\nWe moved to three or four different countries and we had, there was four of us\n\n881\n00:37:34.770 --> 00:37:35.640\nkids within\n\n882\n00:37:35.640 --> 00:37:36.640\nfour years.\n\n883\n00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:37.840\nSo we were always the new kids.\n\n884\n00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.980\nAnd I remember the teachers, the principals saying, you know, Hey, are you\n\n885\n00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:41.920\nready for first\n\n886\n00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:42.920\nday of school?\n\n887\n00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:44.520\nAre you guys, is the curly family ready?\n\n888\n00:37:44.520 --> 00:37:49.280\nAnd I remember my parents going, are you, are you ready for these curly kids?\n\n889\n00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.760\nI understand your dad taught you all about helicopter vision.\n\n890\n00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:53.760\nTell us that story.\n\n891\n00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:54.760\nYeah.\n\n892\n00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.600\nI mean, he was, and he was, you know, we all like to think our dads were cool\n\n893\n00:37:58.600 --> 00:37:59.640\nand accomplished,\n\n894\n00:37:59.640 --> 00:38:00.640\nbut he really was.\n\n895\n00:38:00.640 --> 00:38:06.480\nAnd he was, he was a Canadian naval aviator, seconded by us in the early s\n\n896\n00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.760\nixties, ran the\n\n897\n00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:13.090\nintrepid on the sixties, the helicopter program, sonar radar, all of that era,\n\n898\n00:38:13.090 --> 00:38:13.960\nBay of Pigs,\n\n899\n00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:17.240\nand then also was worked with NASA space pickup, all that.\n\n900\n00:38:17.240 --> 00:38:20.870\nSo we grew up in this environment where helicopters were around us and he was\n\n901\n00:38:20.870 --> 00:38:21.760\nthe cool dad and\n\n902\n00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:25.160\nhe was doing cool things and we would watch him speak to people.\n\n903\n00:38:25.160 --> 00:38:29.820\nAnd I was always in awe of his ability to engage with people as if he was only\n\n904\n00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:30.840\ntalking to you,\n\n905\n00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.640\neven if there's hundreds of people in the room.\n\n906\n00:38:32.640 --> 00:38:37.020\nSo I picked up a lot as a kid, but then he would often talk about, you know,\n\n907\n00:38:37.020 --> 00:38:37.640\nthere's\n\n908\n00:38:37.640 --> 00:38:41.160\nthis notion of helicopter parenting, which is like, like hovering over your\n\n909\n00:38:41.160 --> 00:38:41.640\nkids.\n\n910\n00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:43.200\nIt's not that at all.\n\n911\n00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:46.720\nWhen I grew up, he would say, Hey, the coolest thing about being a helicopter\n\n912\n00:38:46.720 --> 00:38:47.320\npilot is you\n\n913\n00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.080\ncan fly up and you can envision, you can see what's happening, you could scout\n\n914\n00:38:51.080 --> 00:38:51.560\nout what's\n\n915\n00:38:51.560 --> 00:38:52.560\ngoing on.\n\n916\n00:38:52.560 --> 00:38:56.000\nIf everything's going to plan, you do your role, if it's not, you can hover,\n\n917\n00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:56.560\nland that\n\n918\n00:38:56.560 --> 00:39:01.350\nhelicopter, get out, help, support, engage, fix, solve, and then get back up\n\n919\n00:39:01.350 --> 00:39:02.200\nand move.\n\n920\n00:39:02.200 --> 00:39:06.640\nSo he said, think about that as a leader, like, if you have to be on the ground\n\n921\n00:39:06.640 --> 00:39:07.400\nand leading\n\n922\n00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:09.520\nfrom the front, could you do it?\n\n923\n00:39:09.520 --> 00:39:13.880\nAnd at the same time, if you get up to five, 10,000 feet and survey the\n\n924\n00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:14.800\nlandscape, what\n\n925\n00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:16.040\nwould it tell you?\n\n926\n00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:21.670\nAnd so this notion of this helicopter vision, seeing things from the direct\n\n927\n00:39:21.670 --> 00:39:22.600\nsight line on\n\n928\n00:39:22.600 --> 00:39:27.390\nthe ground right through to up at 10,000 feet gives a different perspective, a\n\n929\n00:39:27.390 --> 00:39:28.040\ndifferent\n\n930\n00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:30.360\ndynamic, different scenario settings.\n\n931\n00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:35.170\nAnd he said, just always have that helicopter vision in mind that you can hover\n\n932\n00:39:35.170 --> 00:39:35.880\nup and down\n\n933\n00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.280\ninto a situation and engage accordingly.\n\n934\n00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:39.280\nLove that.\n\n935\n00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:40.280\nLove that.\n\n936\n00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.580\nAnd you've worked with some great brands and you're an incredible brand builder\n\n937\n00:39:45.580 --> 00:39:45.880\n.\n\n938\n00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.480\nAnd I'm going to just kind of do a rapid fire here and go through some of the\n\n939\n00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:50.120\nbrands that\n\n940\n00:39:50.120 --> 00:39:51.120\nyou've worked great.\n\n941\n00:39:51.120 --> 00:39:56.560\nAnd just give me a quick, big leadership insight you got at each one of these.\n\n942\n00:39:56.560 --> 00:40:00.370\nYou work, for example, you worked at King Footwear, known for outdoor\n\n943\n00:40:00.370 --> 00:40:02.080\nperformance shoes, the leadership\n\n944\n00:40:02.080 --> 00:40:03.080\ninsight.\n\n945\n00:40:03.080 --> 00:40:08.830\nYeah, leadership insight there was a young company, absolutely, positively\n\n946\n00:40:08.830 --> 00:40:09.640\nferocious\n\n947\n00:40:09.640 --> 00:40:14.270\nfounder who fundamentally believed in the product he'd created when others didn\n\n948\n00:40:14.270 --> 00:40:15.000\n't believe\n\n949\n00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.000\nin it.\n\n950\n00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.560\nA tow protected sandal, you know, who needed it?\n\n951\n00:40:18.560 --> 00:40:20.480\nIf you wanted a flip flop, you got a flip flop.\n\n952\n00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.760\nIf you want a tow protection, you got, you know, tow protected shoes.\n\n953\n00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:25.680\nAnd he fundamentally believed in this.\n\n954\n00:40:25.680 --> 00:40:28.480\nAnd so it wasn't so much about the product.\n\n955\n00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:30.360\nIt was about building a brand around it.\n\n956\n00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.720\nAnd the pivot was, it's not a, it wasn't a tow protected sandal, it was a\n\n957\n00:40:34.720 --> 00:40:35.440\nhybrid shoe.\n\n958\n00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:37.240\nIt protected and it breathed.\n\n959\n00:40:37.240 --> 00:40:38.240\nWho wears it?\n\n960\n00:40:38.240 --> 00:40:39.920\nPeople living a hybrid life.\n\n961\n00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:40.920\nWhat's that?\n\n962\n00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:45.560\nWe want to create play and care and we created a brand around hybrid living\n\n963\n00:40:45.560 --> 00:40:46.640\nthat connected\n\n964\n00:40:46.640 --> 00:40:47.800\nwith a shoe.\n\n965\n00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:51.890\nAnd so that's the leadership lesson is don't make it about the feature and\n\n966\n00:40:51.890 --> 00:40:52.720\nbenefit of the\n\n967\n00:40:52.720 --> 00:40:53.720\nproduct.\n\n968\n00:40:53.720 --> 00:40:57.800\nMake it about the vision of who would actually want to buy into what you're,\n\n969\n00:40:57.800 --> 00:40:58.560\nwhat you're\n\n970\n00:40:58.560 --> 00:41:02.200\neither selling or creating, going after the hybrid life.\n\n971\n00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:03.200\nAll right.\n\n972\n00:41:03.200 --> 00:41:06.040\nSolomon, you know, a global mountain sports brand.\n\n973\n00:41:06.040 --> 00:41:07.040\nYes.\n\n974\n00:41:07.040 --> 00:41:11.640\nAnd great story, George Solomon, 1947, invented the modern day ski binding.\n\n975\n00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:15.520\n30 years later invented the rear entry boot, then launched the ski.\n\n976\n00:41:15.520 --> 00:41:20.280\nSo it took them like 40, 50 years to just skis, boots, bindings.\n\n977\n00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:24.260\nAnd instead of an, I met George Solomon and he asked me, JC, you know, should\n\n978\n00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:24.760\nwe stick\n\n979\n00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:25.760\nwith skis?\n\n980\n00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.760\nAnd should we do more?\n\n981\n00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:30.360\nAnd I said, George, where's the, where's the mountain going to be in 20 years,\n\n982\n00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:30.960\nin 10\n\n983\n00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:31.960\nyears?\n\n984\n00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:34.380\nAnd when you look at the mountain, it was going to do all these different\n\n985\n00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:35.720\nthings in snowboarding\n\n986\n00:41:35.720 --> 00:41:38.400\nand, and back country, what happens when the snow melts?\n\n987\n00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:39.400\nPeople are hiking.\n\n988\n00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:43.320\nI said, let's go after not the share of ski, but the share of mountain.\n\n989\n00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.080\nThat was a big leadership transition.\n\n990\n00:41:45.080 --> 00:41:49.700\nAnd today Solomon is equally, if not more successful and footwear as it is in\n\n991\n00:41:49.700 --> 00:41:50.240\nski.\n\n992\n00:41:50.240 --> 00:41:54.600\nAnd that was a moment of leadership where we went after the share of mountain\n\n993\n00:41:54.600 --> 00:41:55.080\nLevi's,\n\n994\n00:41:55.080 --> 00:41:58.760\nwhich arguably the most iconic denim brand in the world.\n\n995\n00:41:58.760 --> 00:41:59.760\nYeah.\n\n996\n00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.760\nLevi's.\n\n997\n00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.320\nI mean, just, I grew up wearing Levi's.\n\n998\n00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:03.880\nMy mother put me in Levi's.\n\n999\n00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:08.240\nAnd even when you're the leader and it doesn't feel like you're leading, what\n\n1000\n00:42:08.240 --> 00:42:08.880\ndo you do?\n\n1001\n00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:13.680\nAnd I think for, for Levi's, it was don't take your leadership for granted.\n\n1002\n00:42:13.680 --> 00:42:19.600\nAnd what happened in 2012 in that 2012 era, premium denim, private label.\n\n1003\n00:42:19.600 --> 00:42:21.800\nAnd my daughters didn't even know what Levi's was.\n\n1004\n00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:23.240\nThey knew what Lulu lemon was.\n\n1005\n00:42:23.240 --> 00:42:24.720\nThey didn't know who Levi's was.\n\n1006\n00:42:24.720 --> 00:42:26.080\nMy son was wearing athletic.\n\n1007\n00:42:26.080 --> 00:42:30.240\nMy wife was wearing $250 jeans and I stuck with my Levi's.\n\n1008\n00:42:30.240 --> 00:42:34.600\nAnd so I think there it was about not taking your leadership for granted, but\n\n1009\n00:42:34.600 --> 00:42:35.400\nrebuilding\n\n1010\n00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:40.900\nfor Levi's to be more premium, to actually be about comfort, casualization and\n\n1011\n00:42:40.900 --> 00:42:41.440\nthe cool\n\n1012\n00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:42.440\nfactor.\n\n1013\n00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:44.640\nAnd to do that, we unlock what we call the center of culture.\n\n1014\n00:42:44.640 --> 00:42:48.480\nWhere was the center of culture moments, sports and music and how did we find\n\n1015\n00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:49.080\nourselves\n\n1016\n00:42:49.080 --> 00:42:50.080\ninto that?\n\n1017\n00:42:50.080 --> 00:42:55.370\nAnd the big leadership, not even less than the moment was when I was actively\n\n1018\n00:42:55.370 --> 00:42:56.040\ninvolved\n\n1019\n00:42:56.040 --> 00:42:58.120\nwith the creation of Levi's stadium.\n\n1020\n00:42:58.120 --> 00:42:59.120\nTell us that story.\n\n1021\n00:42:59.120 --> 00:43:03.910\nOh, that's so, so I moved to San Francisco and I've been a 49ers fan for a long\n\n1022\n00:43:03.910 --> 00:43:04.400\ntime.\n\n1023\n00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.680\nAnd then, you know, but that that this was before Levi's stadium.\n\n1024\n00:43:07.680 --> 00:43:11.280\nAnd I remember watching a game and do you know the mascot?\n\n1025\n00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:13.200\nJust think about the pop quiz.\n\n1026\n00:43:13.200 --> 00:43:15.920\nWhat is the mascot of the 49ers?\n\n1027\n00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:17.680\nI'm sorry.\n\n1028\n00:43:17.680 --> 00:43:18.680\nNo problem.\n\n1029\n00:43:18.680 --> 00:43:19.760\nIt's a gold miner.\n\n1030\n00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:20.760\nIt's sourdough Sam.\n\n1031\n00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:23.080\nHe's a gold miner from the gold mining.\n\n1032\n00:43:23.080 --> 00:43:24.720\nI've watched football for years.\n\n1033\n00:43:24.720 --> 00:43:25.720\nI know.\n\n1034\n00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:26.720\nI know.\n\n1035\n00:43:26.720 --> 00:43:27.720\nOkay.\n\n1036\n00:43:27.720 --> 00:43:28.720\nBut most people don't.\n\n1037\n00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:29.720\nI know.\n\n1038\n00:43:29.720 --> 00:43:30.720\nI know with that mascot.\n\n1039\n00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:34.800\nSo it's, it's a gold miner will Levi's was invented in the gold mining era.\n\n1040\n00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:38.800\nSo he's this bigger than life mascot and he's out there and he's doing his\n\n1041\n00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:39.680\nthing to start\n\n1042\n00:43:39.680 --> 00:43:40.680\nthe game.\n\n1043\n00:43:40.680 --> 00:43:45.360\nAnd I pause on his rear end and I say to my kids, I said, he's not wearing Levi\n\n1044\n00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:45.840\n's.\n\n1045\n00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:48.400\nWe got to get him into Levi's fast forward.\n\n1046\n00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:53.440\nWe had dinner myself, the CEO of Levi's Chip Berg and myself had dinner with,\n\n1047\n00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:54.200\nwith Jed\n\n1048\n00:43:54.200 --> 00:43:56.280\nYork and the team, the 49ers.\n\n1049\n00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:57.280\nAnd we met at dinner.\n\n1050\n00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.600\nI said, hey, I got a bone to pick with you.\n\n1051\n00:43:59.600 --> 00:44:02.240\nWe got to get sourdough Sam and Levi's.\n\n1052\n00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:05.640\nAnd then that was that at the start of dinner by the end of dinner said, well,\n\n1053\n00:44:05.640 --> 00:44:06.160\nhow about\n\n1054\n00:44:06.160 --> 00:44:11.860\nLevi's stadium and and Chip had had some experience with Gillette in, in, in,\n\n1055\n00:44:11.860 --> 00:44:12.720\nin New England\n\n1056\n00:44:12.720 --> 00:44:16.640\nand Boston and I'd had sports experience with the data and saw him and fast\n\n1057\n00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:18.120\nforward to literally\n\n1058\n00:44:18.120 --> 00:44:22.200\nwithin months, we, we inked a deal to do Levi's stadium.\n\n1059\n00:44:22.200 --> 00:44:25.400\nAnd it really was a separator for the brand.\n\n1060\n00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.480\nAnd it wasn't about another store or doing some other line or a collaboration.\n\n1061\n00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:35.570\nIt was a 20 year commitment to cement ourselves in the center of culture, music\n\n1062\n00:44:35.570 --> 00:44:36.400\n, sports,\n\n1063\n00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.640\nSan Francisco entrepreneurial.\n\n1064\n00:44:38.640 --> 00:44:43.000\nAnd of course, all the names and people want to call it the field of jeans and,\n\n1065\n00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:43.760\nyou know,\n\n1066\n00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:48.120\nyou know, let's win one for the zipper and all that, but we settled on Levi's\n\n1067\n00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:48.600\nstadium\n\n1068\n00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:52.610\nand arguably one of the most significant and impactful investments the brand\n\n1069\n00:44:52.610 --> 00:44:53.120\nmade.\n\n1070\n00:44:53.120 --> 00:44:54.760\nBut it, you know what it did, David?\n\n1071\n00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:59.550\nIt's one thing to have impact and eyeballs and measurable marketing, but it\n\n1072\n00:44:59.550 --> 00:45:00.640\ngave the company\n\n1073\n00:45:00.640 --> 00:45:03.070\nand I could feel that when we launched it, we brought the players and we\n\n1074\n00:45:03.070 --> 00:45:04.200\nbrought the coaches\n\n1075\n00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:09.240\nand the Niner noise and it shows all to Levi's, like our, our headquarters in,\n\n1076\n00:45:09.240 --> 00:45:09.920\non Battery\n\n1077\n00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:11.560\nStreet in San Francisco.\n\n1078\n00:45:11.560 --> 00:45:15.200\nOne of my favorite moments was the company had no idea it was happening.\n\n1079\n00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:18.960\nWe did this massive town hall and out came these players and the Niner noise\n\n1080\n00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:19.560\nand we're\n\n1081\n00:45:19.560 --> 00:45:24.630\nup on the stage and we announced Levi's stadium and the just the pride that the\n\n1082\n00:45:24.630 --> 00:45:25.920\ncompany had\n\n1083\n00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:26.920\naround.\n\n1084\n00:45:26.920 --> 00:45:31.960\nWe're doing big things and I remember walking into the boardroom and the one of\n\n1085\n00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:32.600\nthe board\n\n1086\n00:45:32.600 --> 00:45:37.040\nmembers said, JC, or can you guarantee this is going to succeed?\n\n1087\n00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:43.760\nBy the way, numbers were 20 years, 20 year deal and basically a $220 million\n\n1088\n00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:44.640\ndeal, like\n\n1089\n00:45:44.640 --> 00:45:47.320\n$11 million a year, et cetera, and that's public knowledge.\n\n1090\n00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.040\nAnd so she said, are you, can you guarantee this is going to succeed?\n\n1091\n00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:54.400\nI said, no, I can't guarantee it's going to be successful, but what I can\n\n1092\n00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:55.280\nguarantee is\n\n1093\n00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.320\nif we don't think like this, then we should reduce our ambitions as a brand and\n\n1094\n00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.080\nas a company.\n\n1095\n00:46:01.080 --> 00:46:03.320\nWe have to think big, we have to think iconic.\n\n1096\n00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:09.160\nThis is Levi's and if this succeeds, it'll introduce us to a new generation.\n\n1097\n00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:13.010\nIt'll reinforce the generation that's never left us and it'll put us in the\n\n1098\n00:46:13.010 --> 00:46:13.600\ncenter of\n\n1099\n00:46:13.600 --> 00:46:14.600\nculture.\n\n1100\n00:46:14.600 --> 00:46:17.760\nSuper Bowl 50 was just played there, well, 10 years ago.\n\n1101\n00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.440\nAnd then they just had Super Bowl a couple of weekends ago, and it was so\n\n1102\n00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:22.640\nawesome to see\n\n1103\n00:46:22.640 --> 00:46:27.380\nBrandi Carlisle playing a Gibson guitar, Charlie Puth, wearing Levi's at Levi's\n\n1104\n00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:28.240\nstadium, all\n\n1105\n00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:31.160\npart of a little piece that I've been involved with.\n\n1106\n00:46:31.160 --> 00:46:35.560\nYeah, you're also a Gibson, one of the most legendary names in music.\n\n1107\n00:46:35.560 --> 00:46:38.000\nThe big leadership insight there.\n\n1108\n00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:39.200\nBiggest leadership insight there.\n\n1109\n00:46:39.200 --> 00:46:42.740\nAnd again, how brands and businesses got to where they got to, it was\n\n1110\n00:46:42.740 --> 00:46:44.200\ntechnically bankrupt.\n\n1111\n00:46:44.200 --> 00:46:47.800\nThey took on a lot of brands and over time and couldn't quite figure out how to\n\n1112\n00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:48.440\ninnovate.\n\n1113\n00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.840\nAnd so you take on too much debt, you buy too many brands.\n\n1114\n00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:52.520\nSo it was technically bankrupt.\n\n1115\n00:46:52.520 --> 00:46:53.520\nThat's not the lesson.\n\n1116\n00:46:53.520 --> 00:46:58.970\nI think the lesson there was again, similar to Levi's where we said, okay, let\n\n1117\n00:46:58.970 --> 00:46:59.800\n's go after\n\n1118\n00:46:59.800 --> 00:47:03.360\na share of closet or share of hybrid life or share of mountain.\n\n1119\n00:47:03.360 --> 00:47:07.880\nI recognized, you know, at Gibson, it wasn't just about selling more guitars.\n\n1120\n00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:13.740\nGibson has been synonymous with writing, recording, shaping sound for over a\n\n1121\n00:47:13.740 --> 00:47:15.240\nhundred years and\n\n1122\n00:47:15.240 --> 00:47:16.560\nlive included.\n\n1123\n00:47:16.560 --> 00:47:18.040\nLet's go after the share of sound.\n\n1124\n00:47:18.040 --> 00:47:22.830\nAnd that became, so my rally cry, my Canadian PowerPoint rally cry literally\n\n1125\n00:47:22.830 --> 00:47:23.800\nwas, I walked\n\n1126\n00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.600\nout on the stage the first day with just SOS on a piece of cardboard.\n\n1127\n00:47:28.600 --> 00:47:31.840\nAnd it would truly was SOS was the distress signal.\n\n1128\n00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:33.240\nWe were bankrupt.\n\n1129\n00:47:33.240 --> 00:47:36.920\nPeople didn't know if they were coming literally into this thousand people into\n\n1130\n00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:37.440\nthis venue\n\n1131\n00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.840\nto say, we're shutting down Gibson or they didn't know who I was.\n\n1132\n00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:45.440\nAnd I held the piece of cardboard and said, the distress signals gone out.\n\n1133\n00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:48.640\nWe're coming here with the investors, myself, with every ounce of experience.\n\n1134\n00:47:48.640 --> 00:47:51.040\nI'm also a musician and it was very, very passionate.\n\n1135\n00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:52.640\nIt was a noble cause for me.\n\n1136\n00:47:52.640 --> 00:47:58.040\nAnd I said, we're going to turn SOS into share of sound and save our sound and\n\n1137\n00:47:58.040 --> 00:47:58.760\nthen share\n\n1138\n00:47:58.760 --> 00:47:59.760\nof sound.\n\n1139\n00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:03.480\nAnd we went after that and now, you know, we rebuilt Gibson the right way over\n\n1140\n00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:04.040\nthe last\n\n1141\n00:48:04.040 --> 00:48:08.080\nfive or six years and it's now synonymous with the share of sound.\n\n1142\n00:48:08.080 --> 00:48:09.080\nAwesome.\n\n1143\n00:48:09.080 --> 00:48:10.080\nAwesome.\n\n1144\n00:48:10.080 --> 00:48:11.080\nI tell you, this has been so much fun, JC.\n\n1145\n00:48:11.080 --> 00:48:13.850\nAnd I want to have some more now with the lightning round of questions that I\n\n1146\n00:48:13.850 --> 00:48:14.240\nhave.\n\n1147\n00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:15.240\nAre you ready for this?\n\n1148\n00:48:15.240 --> 00:48:16.240\nOkay.\n\n1149\n00:48:16.240 --> 00:48:17.240\nI'm ready.\n\n1150\n00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:21.770\nThe three words that best describe you energy, approachable, I would say empat\n\n1151\n00:48:21.770 --> 00:48:22.280\nhetic.\n\n1152\n00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.600\nIf you could be one person for a day beside yourself, who would it be?\n\n1153\n00:48:25.600 --> 00:48:28.160\nYou know, who would be would be my grandfather.\n\n1154\n00:48:28.160 --> 00:48:33.790\nHe was an orphan in London, read a sign on an old electricity pole that said,\n\n1155\n00:48:33.790 --> 00:48:34.400\nwelcome\n\n1156\n00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:38.760\nto the new land as a 16 year old, got on a boat and joined the what was then\n\n1157\n00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:39.680\nthe Northwestern\n\n1158\n00:48:39.680 --> 00:48:43.200\nMounted Police and became a commissioner in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.\n\n1159\n00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:47.710\nAnd just seeing going from an orphan to that brave step of getting on a ship to\n\n1160\n00:48:47.710 --> 00:48:49.200\ndoing something\n\n1161\n00:48:49.200 --> 00:48:53.660\nthat hadn't been done before and then bringing it around to accomplishing what\n\n1162\n00:48:53.660 --> 00:48:54.280\nhe did was\n\n1163\n00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:55.960\nhe was a true pioneer.\n\n1164\n00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:57.620\nYour biggest pet peeve.\n\n1165\n00:48:57.620 --> 00:49:02.100\nWhen people are late and they take that for granted, it's one thing to be laid\n\n1166\n00:49:02.100 --> 00:49:02.920\nand apologize\n\n1167\n00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:03.920\nfor a trial.\n\n1168\n00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:08.350\nThere's a situation, but just coming in and not acknowledging that you're late\n\n1169\n00:49:08.350 --> 00:49:09.200\nand understanding\n\n1170\n00:49:09.200 --> 00:49:13.360\nthat that's the norm and you've kept other people waiting drives me nuts.\n\n1171\n00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:14.880\nWho would play you in a movie?\n\n1172\n00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:16.600\nMy twin brother.\n\n1173\n00:49:16.600 --> 00:49:18.040\nThe best part about being a twin.\n\n1174\n00:49:18.040 --> 00:49:22.680\nThe best part is you've always got a, you know, you've got always got an alibi.\n\n1175\n00:49:22.680 --> 00:49:23.920\nIt wasn't me, your honor.\n\n1176\n00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:25.120\nI wasn't even there.\n\n1177\n00:49:25.120 --> 00:49:29.560\nNow, the best part about being a twin is you have someone who's literally\n\n1178\n00:49:29.560 --> 00:49:30.600\nshared a lot of\n\n1179\n00:49:30.600 --> 00:49:34.120\nthe moments in your life and when something comes at you, there's nothing we\n\n1180\n00:49:34.120 --> 00:49:34.520\nhaven't\n\n1181\n00:49:34.520 --> 00:49:37.440\nseen together.\n\n1182\n00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.680\nWhat do you and your favorite Pelican case have in common?\n\n1183\n00:49:40.680 --> 00:49:45.600\nI think I've built to protect, to equip for my family mission.\n\n1184\n00:49:45.600 --> 00:49:49.690\nAnd I think the Pelican case is built to equip for a physical mission and the\n\n1185\n00:49:49.690 --> 00:49:51.680\ntwo come together.\n\n1186\n00:49:51.680 --> 00:49:56.040\nI mean, you do as a family, speaking a family in Costa Rica, you can't do\n\n1187\n00:49:56.040 --> 00:49:57.240\nanywhere else.\n\n1188\n00:49:57.240 --> 00:50:03.660\nI'll tell you what we can't do anywhere else is have spontaneous music nights\n\n1189\n00:50:03.660 --> 00:50:05.520\nthat are multicultural\n\n1190\n00:50:05.520 --> 00:50:09.320\nby definition and everyone's in the band.\n\n1191\n00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:12.500\nWhat's something you've been curious about lately that has absolutely nothing\n\n1192\n00:50:12.500 --> 00:50:13.240\nto do with\n\n1193\n00:50:13.240 --> 00:50:14.240\nwork?\n\n1194\n00:50:14.240 --> 00:50:18.320\nI'm obsessed with how restaurants work.\n\n1195\n00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:19.320\nI really am.\n\n1196\n00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:24.610\nI just think that if you think about, a couple of months ago, I was at a dinner\n\n1197\n00:50:24.610 --> 00:50:25.280\nand I got\n\n1198\n00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:26.280\nthis meal.\n\n1199\n00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:31.080\nI'm like, every meal served is a performance review for the restaurant.\n\n1200\n00:50:31.080 --> 00:50:32.080\nEvery meal served.\n\n1201\n00:50:32.080 --> 00:50:35.330\nI mean, I get a performance review annually or something and I'm sure you as a\n\n1202\n00:50:35.330 --> 00:50:35.720\nleader\n\n1203\n00:50:35.720 --> 00:50:40.510\nwould do performance reviews with your team or you'd get one as a CEO from your\n\n1204\n00:50:40.510 --> 00:50:41.080\nboard.\n\n1205\n00:50:41.080 --> 00:50:44.040\nBut every meal is delivered.\n\n1206\n00:50:44.040 --> 00:50:47.740\nIt's a performance review and how they keep the pace, how they manage the\n\n1207\n00:50:47.740 --> 00:50:48.520\ninventory, how\n\n1208\n00:50:48.520 --> 00:50:53.560\nthey keep things in motion, hot, and how they can continually get a five star\n\n1209\n00:50:53.560 --> 00:50:54.320\nreview.\n\n1210\n00:50:54.320 --> 00:50:57.690\nIf you see a restaurant with continuous five star reviews, you should learn\n\n1211\n00:50:57.690 --> 00:50:58.360\nwhat they're\n\n1212\n00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.720\ndoing in terms of all of the dynamics to succeed and bits.\n\n1213\n00:51:01.720 --> 00:51:05.360\nI'm obsessed with restaurant dynamics.\n\n1214\n00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:09.080\nThe one thing you do just for you, I play guitar every day.\n\n1215\n00:51:09.080 --> 00:51:13.600\nBesides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?\n\n1216\n00:51:13.600 --> 00:51:19.920\nIt is my Gibson 1966 J45 guitar.\n\n1217\n00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.820\nIf I turn the radio on in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1218\n00:51:22.820 --> 00:51:26.520\nYou would hear right now, oh, here's a shameless plug.\n\n1219\n00:51:26.520 --> 00:51:29.200\nYou would hear a band called Where's West?\n\n1220\n00:51:29.200 --> 00:51:32.240\nSoon to be at festivals near you happens to be my son.\n\n1221\n00:51:32.240 --> 00:51:33.240\nBut I do.\n\n1222\n00:51:33.240 --> 00:51:34.240\nI listen to a lot of his music.\n\n1223\n00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:36.320\nI think it's awesome and inspiring.\n\n1224\n00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:41.650\nAnd then what's crazy is our family, we've never fought about who gets to run\n\n1225\n00:51:41.650 --> 00:51:42.520\nBluetooth\n\n1226\n00:51:42.520 --> 00:51:47.320\nin the car because we all have the same soundtrack.\n\n1227\n00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:52.200\nSo I think that's a testament to not having to fight over music, but we all\n\n1228\n00:51:52.200 --> 00:51:53.160\nlove the same\n\n1229\n00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:54.160\nmusic.\n\n1230\n00:51:54.160 --> 00:51:55.160\nWhat's something about you?\n\n1231\n00:51:55.160 --> 00:51:57.800\nA few people would know that I'm a triple citizen.\n\n1232\n00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:02.290\nI was born in the US to Canadian parents and then also was naturalized as a\n\n1233\n00:52:02.290 --> 00:52:03.040\ncitizen in\n\n1234\n00:52:03.040 --> 00:52:04.840\nthe UK.\n\n1235\n00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.830\nAnd having three passports wasn't the goal, but I think understanding the\n\n1236\n00:52:08.830 --> 00:52:09.920\ncultural dynamics\n\n1237\n00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:14.600\nthat come with being connected to not just one place, but multiple places.\n\n1238\n00:52:14.600 --> 00:52:18.240\nWhen you grow up and you hear about diversity and inclusion, I lived it.\n\n1239\n00:52:18.240 --> 00:52:20.160\nSo I don't have to be prescribed it.\n\n1240\n00:52:20.160 --> 00:52:21.680\nI actually have lived it.\n\n1241\n00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:22.880\nWe're out of the lightning round.\n\n1242\n00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:23.880\nGreat job, JC.\n\n1243\n00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:24.880\nJust a few more questions here.\n\n1244\n00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:28.860\nI'll let you get back to work here, you know, you know, how do you lead at home\n\n1245\n00:52:28.860 --> 00:52:29.160\n?\n\n1246\n00:52:29.160 --> 00:52:33.540\nAt home, it's it's it's it's I have three kids are all young adults now.\n\n1247\n00:52:33.540 --> 00:52:37.640\nAnd so, you know, one of the things I try not to bring work home, which is, you\n\n1248\n00:52:37.640 --> 00:52:38.120\nknow,\n\n1249\n00:52:38.120 --> 00:52:39.280\nI think that's a lesson learned.\n\n1250\n00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:42.680\nI was, you know, younger in my day, I was getting up early and staying late.\n\n1251\n00:52:42.680 --> 00:52:45.600\nAnd now I try to get it done, not just through me and the team.\n\n1252\n00:52:45.600 --> 00:52:50.080\nSo leading at home by by trying to listen to what's going on in the family, not\n\n1253\n00:52:50.080 --> 00:52:50.720\nbringing\n\n1254\n00:52:50.720 --> 00:52:55.760\nmy baggage home is probably the first thing to whatever mood I was in during\n\n1255\n00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:56.440\nthe day.\n\n1256\n00:52:56.440 --> 00:52:58.720\nI have to sort of do this.\n\n1257\n00:52:58.720 --> 00:53:02.440\nAnd then when I was at Levi's, I would drive over the Golden Gate Bridge and\n\n1258\n00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:03.040\nuse that as\n\n1259\n00:53:03.040 --> 00:53:06.660\nmy cathartic moment to be like, okay, what's behind me is behind me and what's\n\n1260\n00:53:06.660 --> 00:53:07.120\nin front\n\n1261\n00:53:07.120 --> 00:53:08.120\nof me is in front of me.\n\n1262\n00:53:08.120 --> 00:53:12.480\nAnd so I think leading at home a little bit by example, doing my best to\n\n1263\n00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:13.640\nsupport, you\n\n1264\n00:53:13.640 --> 00:53:18.000\nknow, obviously the family dynamics, but also all the lessons I learned in life\n\n1265\n00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:18.480\nwith through\n\n1266\n00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:19.480\nmy parents.\n\n1267\n00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:25.200\nI try to put that into the kids and and and it's amazing if if a kid can if a\n\n1268\n00:53:25.200 --> 00:53:26.200\nkid can\n\n1269\n00:53:26.200 --> 00:53:30.560\nplay a video game, they can learn how to do dishwashers, they can learn how to\n\n1270\n00:53:30.560 --> 00:53:31.520\ndo laundry.\n\n1271\n00:53:31.520 --> 00:53:34.040\nThey could it's it's actually a good translation.\n\n1272\n00:53:34.040 --> 00:53:38.590\nSo I try to make sure the kids are set up for their life beyond just living at\n\n1273\n00:53:38.590 --> 00:53:39.240\nhome.\n\n1274\n00:53:39.240 --> 00:53:41.600\nWhat's your family taught you about leadership?\n\n1275\n00:53:41.600 --> 00:53:43.280\nYou should do a podcast with my wife.\n\n1276\n00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:46.210\nIn fact, what what an exercise that would be if we all just brought our\n\n1277\n00:53:46.210 --> 00:53:46.880\nsignificant\n\n1278\n00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:49.960\nothers into run the company for a day, they've heard everything.\n\n1279\n00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:57.560\nBut I think I think my my wife has taught me like she she she's awesome she she\n\n1280\n00:53:57.560 --> 00:53:57.760\nwe met\n\n1281\n00:53:57.760 --> 00:53:58.760\nin college.\n\n1282\n00:53:58.760 --> 00:53:59.760\nWe moved to London.\n\n1283\n00:53:59.760 --> 00:54:01.080\nShe worked at Sony music.\n\n1284\n00:54:01.080 --> 00:54:03.880\nI did this and then we we decided to have a family.\n\n1285\n00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:07.770\nSo she took that path and did an amazing job at bringing the kids up and I\n\n1286\n00:54:07.770 --> 00:54:08.440\ntraveled\n\n1287\n00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:13.350\ndid what I did and she's taught me that like, you know, I kept doing what I did\n\n1288\n00:54:13.350 --> 00:54:13.760\n.\n\n1289\n00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:17.410\nHer life pivoted a hundred and eighty degrees with with be going from being at\n\n1290\n00:54:17.410 --> 00:54:18.000\nSony music\n\n1291\n00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:23.860\nto being a mom and she taught me like the hundred and eighty degree switch in\n\n1292\n00:54:23.860 --> 00:54:24.520\nlife is\n\n1293\n00:54:24.520 --> 00:54:29.390\nway harder than than your career chasing ladder that you think you're on until\n\n1294\n00:54:29.390 --> 00:54:30.280\nyou realize\n\n1295\n00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:35.460\nthat what we do as CEOs is is challenging and you know, it's got a dynamic way\n\n1296\n00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:36.240\nof coming\n\n1297\n00:54:36.240 --> 00:54:41.350\nat you, but what moms have to do and what my wife and by the way, we loved\n\n1298\n00:54:41.350 --> 00:54:42.480\nevery minute\n\n1299\n00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:43.480\nof it.\n\n1300\n00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:48.140\nI don't maybe most minutes, but she just taught me that like pivoting a hundred\n\n1301\n00:54:48.140 --> 00:54:48.400\nand eighty\n\n1302\n00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:53.320\ndegrees and doing it well is harder than just climbing the corporate ladder.\n\n1303\n00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:57.320\nYou know, JC, this has been an incredible conversation and you've been a part\n\n1304\n00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:57.880\nof so many\n\n1305\n00:54:57.880 --> 00:54:58.880\nbig things.\n\n1306\n00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:02.440\nYou know, you know, when you're looking back at it, you know, was there a\n\n1307\n00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:03.160\nfailure that\n\n1308\n00:55:03.160 --> 00:55:08.580\nreally that you had that that really taught you as much as the success that you\n\n1309\n00:55:08.580 --> 00:55:09.640\n've garnered\n\n1310\n00:55:09.640 --> 00:55:10.960\nover the years?\n\n1311\n00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:14.640\nWhen it comes to people, it's all roads come back to people.\n\n1312\n00:55:14.640 --> 00:55:19.000\nThe problems are just different dynamics disguised by brand or by market\n\n1313\n00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:19.920\ncondition.\n\n1314\n00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.840\nBut when it comes to people really, and I think it goes back to that being\n\n1315\n00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:24.720\naggressively\n\n1316\n00:55:24.720 --> 00:55:29.760\npatient, David, where I knew in my mind I needed to make a decision about an\n\n1317\n00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:30.680\nindividual and\n\n1318\n00:55:30.680 --> 00:55:35.970\nI relied on hope and luck and time and thought it would get better and it didn\n\n1319\n00:55:35.970 --> 00:55:36.440\n't.\n\n1320\n00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:40.090\nAnd then there were times when I might have made a decision too quickly and I'm\n\n1321\n00:55:40.090 --> 00:55:40.520\nlike,\n\n1322\n00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:43.540\nman, if I would have known and had a little more information, I probably wouldn\n\n1323\n00:55:43.540 --> 00:55:43.920\n't have\n\n1324\n00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:45.080\nmade that decision.\n\n1325\n00:55:45.080 --> 00:55:51.200\nBut one of the things I did do along that journey of I found it very difficult\n\n1326\n00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:51.880\nto have\n\n1327\n00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:56.360\nthe tough conversations, like ultimately relieving someone of their role.\n\n1328\n00:55:56.360 --> 00:56:00.080\nI mean, it's probably one of the toughest things we have to do as leaders.\n\n1329\n00:56:00.080 --> 00:56:05.120\nBut if you do it with an element of anticipation, you set the conditions of\n\n1330\n00:56:05.120 --> 00:56:06.520\nexpectation, you\n\n1331\n00:56:06.520 --> 00:56:10.360\nthen say there's going to be a fork in the road, you have that conversation,\n\n1332\n00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:10.840\nyou do it\n\n1333\n00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:16.690\nin a way that's empathetic, direct, and supportive, but yet declarative, I'm\n\n1334\n00:56:16.690 --> 00:56:18.040\nproud to say with\n\n1335\n00:56:18.040 --> 00:56:23.110\nthat pivot sometimes learning the hard way, I've had several individuals who\n\n1336\n00:56:23.110 --> 00:56:23.800\nover time\n\n1337\n00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:27.010\nI've had to relieve of their duty who still I would call friends, I'm a\n\n1338\n00:56:27.010 --> 00:56:27.800\nreference for\n\n1339\n00:56:27.800 --> 00:56:32.450\nthem, and I continue to hold them in high regard for their, how they handled\n\n1340\n00:56:32.450 --> 00:56:33.280\nthemselves\n\n1341\n00:56:33.280 --> 00:56:35.320\nin a difficult situation.\n\n1342\n00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:40.360\nAnd so I would say the thing I've learned the most is how to set those\n\n1343\n00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:41.640\nconditions for\n\n1344\n00:56:41.640 --> 00:56:45.640\npeople that in the moment that matters most in their life and for the sake of\n\n1345\n00:56:45.640 --> 00:56:46.560\nthe company,\n\n1346\n00:56:46.560 --> 00:56:51.430\nyou do it in a way that's appropriate for the situation, you look back and say\n\n1347\n00:56:51.430 --> 00:56:52.060\ndespite\n\n1348\n00:56:52.060 --> 00:56:57.000\nthe difficult decision, we handled it, we all handled it the right way.\n\n1349\n00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.960\nThat's tough one to do, no question about that, but it's great when you can.\n\n1350\n00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:05.320\nYou know, last question here, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone\n\n1351\n00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:05.920\nwho wants to\n\n1352\n00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:08.280\nbe a better leader?\n\n1353\n00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:15.380\nDon't have a plan B, have two plan A's, and I learned that from my father, and\n\n1354\n00:57:15.380 --> 00:57:15.760\nI really\n\n1355\n00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:16.760\nbelieve it.\n\n1356\n00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:22.170\nI think in today's world when you automatically compromise against a vision or\n\n1357\n00:57:22.170 --> 00:57:23.160\nthat you have\n\n1358\n00:57:23.160 --> 00:57:27.240\nfor yourself or for your team or for your company, and if immediately you go,\n\n1359\n00:57:27.240 --> 00:57:27.720\nwell our\n\n1360\n00:57:27.720 --> 00:57:32.080\nplan B, by saying plan B it means we're not thinking this is going to go to\n\n1361\n00:57:32.080 --> 00:57:32.600\nplan so we'll\n\n1362\n00:57:32.600 --> 00:57:36.480\ncompromise to a B plan, why not have two plan A's?\n\n1363\n00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:40.890\nAnd I think I really believe that it's hard to say which one's the A and the B,\n\n1364\n00:57:40.890 --> 00:57:41.760\net cetera,\n\n1365\n00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:44.540\nbut my dad would always say, you know, it's under the heading of keep your\n\n1366\n00:57:44.540 --> 00:57:45.240\noptions open,\n\n1367\n00:57:45.240 --> 00:57:48.390\nhe'd say, hey, have two plan A's, guys, what's your two plan A's, and he would\n\n1368\n00:57:48.390 --> 00:57:49.040\nchallenge\n\n1369\n00:57:49.040 --> 00:57:50.040\nus with that.\n\n1370\n00:57:50.040 --> 00:57:54.400\nAnd I think in business, in life, and with your team, challenging people to\n\n1371\n00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:54.960\nthink about\n\n1372\n00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:59.750\nthe alternatives as not the compromise, but as the alter alternative that could\n\n1373\n00:57:59.750 --> 00:58:00.360\nbe equally\n\n1374\n00:58:00.360 --> 00:58:02.640\ngood by having two plan A's.\n\n1375\n00:58:02.640 --> 00:58:06.540\nLove that, love that, and J.C., this has been a ton of fun, you know, I love\n\n1376\n00:58:06.540 --> 00:58:07.240\nwhat you're\n\n1377\n00:58:07.240 --> 00:58:10.510\ndoing, I love how you think, and congratulations on all your success, and thank\n\n1378\n00:58:10.510 --> 00:58:11.240\nyou for taking\n\n1379\n00:58:11.240 --> 00:58:12.240\nthe time.\n\n1380\n00:58:12.240 --> 00:58:13.240\nAbsolutely.\n\n1381\n00:58:13.240 --> 00:58:14.240\nI really appreciate it.\n\n1382\n00:58:14.240 --> 00:58:15.240\nThanks to you and the team.\n\n1383\n00:58:15.240 --> 00:58:16.240\nAll pro setup.\n\n1384\n00:58:16.240 --> 00:58:17.240\nGood luck going forward.\n\n1385\n00:58:17.240 --> 00:58:21.220\nAnd again, appreciate the line of questions that got me thinking again, and I\n\n1386\n00:58:21.220 --> 00:58:21.680\n'll take\n\n1387\n00:58:21.680 --> 00:58:22.680\nthis forward as well.\n\n1388\n00:58:22.680 --> 00:58:24.640\nAppreciate it.\n\n1389\n00:58:24.640 --> 00:58:31.070\nDavid, I never knew I would be so interested in Pelican products because I'm\n\n1390\n00:58:31.070 --> 00:58:32.800\nnot a photographer\n\n1391\n00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:36.580\nand I'm not a musician, but again, I see these Pelican boxes all the time in\n\n1392\n00:58:36.580 --> 00:58:37.360\nairports.\n\n1393\n00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:41.870\nBut now I feel like I need to go buy a Pelican case for every valuable item\n\n1394\n00:58:41.870 --> 00:58:42.800\nthat I own.\n\n1395\n00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:44.280\nWell, why don't you?\n\n1396\n00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:47.280\nMaybe I will.\n\n1397\n00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:48.800\nWhat a fascinating leader.\n\n1398\n00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:52.820\nJ.C. has had such an interesting career, David, and I'm excited to get your\n\n1399\n00:58:52.820 --> 00:58:53.200\ntake on\n\n1400\n00:58:53.200 --> 00:58:56.440\nsome of the concepts that you and J.C. talked about in the episode.\n\n1401\n00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:00.120\nAs always, we try to give our listeners some real tangible takeaways from these\n\n1402\n00:59:00.120 --> 00:59:00.640\nshows that\n\n1403\n00:59:00.640 --> 00:59:04.280\nthey can apply right away to their leadership and to their life.\n\n1404\n00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:07.760\nAnd this episode is no different in that it is chock full with insight.\n\n1405\n00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:10.710\nSo, David, the first thing that I really want to talk to you about, which is\n\n1406\n00:59:10.710 --> 00:59:11.280\nsomething I\n\n1407\n00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:16.600\nfound so interesting in the episode, and it's how J.C. reframes what he sells.\n\n1408\n00:59:16.600 --> 00:59:19.900\nIt seems like he has this pattern everywhere he goes when he goes at Solomon,\n\n1409\n00:59:19.900 --> 00:59:20.440\nhe shifted\n\n1410\n00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:24.920\nfrom selling, you know, a share of skis to selling a share of the mountain.\n\n1411\n00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:29.400\nAt Gibson, he talked about how to sell a share of sound, not just sell guitars.\n\n1412\n00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:34.880\nAnd now, a pelican, he's selling shares of protection, not just cases.\n\n1413\n00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:39.560\nI'm curious, your perspective on how you go about positioning products.\n\n1414\n00:59:39.560 --> 00:59:44.450\nWell, I think it's really important for you to take your product and put it in\n\n1415\n00:59:44.450 --> 00:59:45.160\nits broadest\n\n1416\n00:59:45.160 --> 00:59:48.880\nframe of reverence while still being true to what you are.\n\n1417\n00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:52.840\nYou know, the example I always use on that front is with Snickers.\n\n1418\n00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:58.280\nYou know, Snickers used to be just a chocolate candy bar with peanuts.\n\n1419\n00:59:58.280 --> 01:00:04.230\nBut they repositioned that brand in a much broader way by positioning it as a\n\n1420\n01:00:04.230 --> 01:00:04.920\nsnack that\n\n1421\n01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:05.920\nsatisfies.\n\n1422\n01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:12.030\nA snack that brings out that whatever hunger you have, you know, Snickers can\n\n1423\n01:00:12.030 --> 01:00:12.760\ndo it.\n\n1424\n01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:17.820\nAnd so, instead of being an indulgent candy bar, it became a snack that\n\n1425\n01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:18.920\nsatisfies it's\n\n1426\n01:00:18.920 --> 01:00:23.270\nalmost good for you, even though you're eating all that chocolate and caramel\n\n1427\n01:00:23.270 --> 01:00:24.520\nand peanuts.\n\n1428\n01:00:24.520 --> 01:00:28.290\nBut it made you feel better, it gave you permission to indulge, and it broad\n\n1429\n01:00:28.290 --> 01:00:29.400\nened your business.\n\n1430\n01:00:29.400 --> 01:00:34.280\nAnd I think that's what, you know, really makes great brands.\n\n1431\n01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:38.280\nAnd by the way, you know, JC is a great brand builder, you know.\n\n1432\n01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:39.800\nBut another good example is Nike.\n\n1433\n01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:44.000\nThey went from being a shoe company to a human performance company.\n\n1434\n01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:48.360\nAnd you know, anytime I think you think about your brand, you want to look\n\n1435\n01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:48.960\nabout it in the\n\n1436\n01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:55.350\nbroadest sense, you know, golf channel doesn't just see itself as a golf\n\n1437\n01:00:55.350 --> 01:00:57.480\ntelevision channel.\n\n1438\n01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:01.000\nYou know, golf channel sees itself as owning the golf business, and that's why\n\n1439\n01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:01.600\nthey launch\n\n1440\n01:01:01.600 --> 01:01:06.730\ngolf now and which helps you get tee times and golf pass, which Rory McElroy is\n\n1441\n01:01:06.730 --> 01:01:07.280\nreally\n\n1442\n01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:11.680\nbehind that gives you ideas for golf and how you can get better.\n\n1443\n01:01:11.680 --> 01:01:17.520\nSo all these are great ways to get, take a brand that you have and give it the\n\n1444\n01:01:17.520 --> 01:01:18.320\nbroadest\n\n1445\n01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:19.320\npossible relevance.\n\n1446\n01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:24.600\nAnd when you do that, you usually unlock all kinds of growth.\n\n1447\n01:01:24.600 --> 01:01:29.020\nIt's so true because it really does invite the customer into a much more\n\n1448\n01:01:29.020 --> 01:01:30.040\nmeaningful and\n\n1449\n01:01:30.040 --> 01:01:31.200\nexciting story.\n\n1450\n01:01:31.200 --> 01:01:34.430\nLike Snickers is just a candy bar that you indulge in, you almost kind of feel\n\n1451\n01:01:34.430 --> 01:01:34.840\nguilty\n\n1452\n01:01:34.840 --> 01:01:35.840\nfor eating a Snickers.\n\n1453\n01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:39.360\nBut you're so right, I actually reached for a Snickers yesterday, it was the\n\n1454\n01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:39.960\nfirst time\n\n1455\n01:01:39.960 --> 01:01:42.680\nin years that I've done that, but I was starving.\n\n1456\n01:01:42.680 --> 01:01:45.200\nAnd I knew I wasn't going to have a meal for a few more hours.\n\n1457\n01:01:45.200 --> 01:01:49.270\nAnd I saw a Snickers bar and I was like, Snickers, because I'm not myself when\n\n1458\n01:01:49.270 --> 01:01:50.080\nI'm hungry.\n\n1459\n01:01:50.080 --> 01:01:52.840\nAnd so I grabbed the Snickers and ate it.\n\n1460\n01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:54.840\nAnd of course, it's not actually good for me.\n\n1461\n01:01:54.840 --> 01:02:00.130\nWe know all these things, but it's proof that when you associate your product\n\n1462\n01:02:00.130 --> 01:02:01.640\nwith a greater\n\n1463\n01:02:01.640 --> 01:02:09.360\nway of being a snack that satisfies it motivates your customer to take action.\n\n1464\n01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:11.960\nAnd I think, you know, JC is brilliant at that.\n\n1465\n01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:17.250\nDavid, the next concept that I want to debrief with you is JC's idea of his\n\n1466\n01:02:17.250 --> 01:02:18.840\nCanadian PowerPoint,\n\n1467\n01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:23.800\na piece of cardboard that he writes something on to present to his team.\n\n1468\n01:02:23.800 --> 01:02:28.290\nAnd I love the simplicity of that and how he communicates internally with his\n\n1469\n01:02:28.290 --> 01:02:28.840\nteam.\n\n1470\n01:02:28.840 --> 01:02:33.200\nAnd David, from your perspective, what are some other pointers on how we can\n\n1471\n01:02:33.200 --> 01:02:33.840\nget better\n\n1472\n01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:35.520\nat communicating internally?\n\n1473\n01:02:35.520 --> 01:02:40.400\nWell, I think, you know, just like a marketer needs to take a brand and make\n\n1474\n01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:41.720\nsure that you\n\n1475\n01:02:41.720 --> 01:02:45.560\nbreak through the clutter, I think a leader has to break through the clutter\n\n1476\n01:02:45.560 --> 01:02:46.200\nwith their\n\n1477\n01:02:46.200 --> 01:02:49.920\ncommunication message that they're driving with their team.\n\n1478\n01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:56.480\nYou know, one way out, I did that, I remember I was walking in San Francisco\n\n1479\n01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:57.600\nand I saw this\n\n1480\n01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.600\nstory.\n\n1481\n01:02:58.600 --> 01:03:02.400\nI saw these four rocks in the window that you could buy.\n\n1482\n01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:05.560\nAnd they were words and scripted on each one of them.\n\n1483\n01:03:05.560 --> 01:03:10.850\nAnd I thought, man, I'm going to take those four rocks and I'm going to create\n\n1484\n01:03:10.850 --> 01:03:11.520\na speech\n\n1485\n01:03:11.520 --> 01:03:12.520\naround these things.\n\n1486\n01:03:12.520 --> 01:03:14.560\nAnd the first rock said create.\n\n1487\n01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:17.160\nAnd I talked about the importance of creating vision.\n\n1488\n01:03:17.160 --> 01:03:19.360\nThe second rock said courage.\n\n1489\n01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:24.150\nAnd on that rock, I talked about the importance when I held it up to the\n\n1490\n01:03:24.150 --> 01:03:25.120\naudience.\n\n1491\n01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:28.340\nI talked about the fact that you had the courage to be yourself, you had to\n\n1492\n01:03:28.340 --> 01:03:29.160\nhave the courage\n\n1493\n01:03:29.160 --> 01:03:30.720\nto do the right thing.\n\n1494\n01:03:30.720 --> 01:03:35.080\nAnd this third rock said encourage and there I talked about the power of\n\n1495\n01:03:35.080 --> 01:03:35.880\nrecognition and\n\n1496\n01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:41.510\nencouraging people to do the things that you know will drive your business and\n\n1497\n01:03:41.510 --> 01:03:42.520\nrecognizing\n\n1498\n01:03:42.520 --> 01:03:43.520\nthem for it.\n\n1499\n01:03:43.520 --> 01:03:47.480\nAnd then the last rock, believe it or not, was the tiniest rock of all.\n\n1500\n01:03:47.480 --> 01:03:50.140\nAnd on it was inscribed give.\n\n1501\n01:03:50.140 --> 01:03:54.120\nAnd I talked about that being the most important rock of all because the more\n\n1502\n01:03:54.120 --> 01:03:54.920\nyou give, the\n\n1503\n01:03:54.920 --> 01:03:58.950\nmore you receive, the more you give to people, the give to others, give to your\n\n1504\n01:03:58.950 --> 01:03:59.720\ncustomers,\n\n1505\n01:03:59.720 --> 01:04:00.920\nthe more you receive.\n\n1506\n01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:06.550\nSo I took those four rocks and I turned a speech that I gave over and over\n\n1507\n01:04:06.550 --> 01:04:07.600\nagain, you\n\n1508\n01:04:07.600 --> 01:04:11.320\nknow, where people could basically recite it because I broke through the\n\n1509\n01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:11.960\nclutter and\n\n1510\n01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:17.330\ngave people things to, you know, a key messages that I wanted people to hear,\n\n1511\n01:04:17.330 --> 01:04:18.400\nbut they could\n\n1512\n01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.480\nremember it because it was done in a different way.\n\n1513\n01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:27.200\nAnd that's what he does with his cardboard box and, you know, I think he's\n\n1514\n01:04:27.200 --> 01:04:28.080\nright on the\n\n1515\n01:04:28.080 --> 01:04:29.120\nmoney there.\n\n1516\n01:04:29.120 --> 01:04:32.670\nEvery leader needs to think very hard, not only about what they want to\n\n1517\n01:04:32.670 --> 01:04:33.560\ncommunicate,\n\n1518\n01:04:33.560 --> 01:04:37.320\nbut how they can do it so that you break through the clutter.\n\n1519\n01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:40.870\nAnd we're being constantly bombarded with thousands and thousands and thousands\n\n1520\n01:04:40.870 --> 01:04:41.440\nof commercial\n\n1521\n01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:43.120\nmessages every single day.\n\n1522\n01:04:43.120 --> 01:04:46.890\nSo if it's just another PowerPoint deck that you send via email, it's probably\n\n1523\n01:04:46.890 --> 01:04:47.440\ngoing to\n\n1524\n01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:51.120\nlook and be processed like every other PowerPoint deck that's sent via email.\n\n1525\n01:04:51.120 --> 01:04:54.860\nSo I love not only the simplicity of it, but just thinking outside the box in\n\n1526\n01:04:54.860 --> 01:04:55.280\nterms of\n\n1527\n01:04:55.280 --> 01:05:00.590\nhow you actually deliver information and a cardboard box is a hilarious and\n\n1528\n01:05:00.590 --> 01:05:01.440\neffective\n\n1529\n01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:02.440\nway.\n\n1530\n01:05:02.440 --> 01:05:03.440\nYeah.\n\n1531\n01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:05.240\nYou know, and by the way, you've got to look for good analogies.\n\n1532\n01:05:05.240 --> 01:05:08.160\nHere's another great one, you know, that I just heard about a really good\n\n1533\n01:05:08.160 --> 01:05:08.760\nfriend of mine\n\n1534\n01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:15.310\nwent to the masters and she had to give a presentation to her sales team and\n\n1535\n01:05:15.310 --> 01:05:16.400\nshe talked\n\n1536\n01:05:16.400 --> 01:05:23.250\nabout Rory McElroy and what she observed in the way how he warmed up, how he\n\n1537\n01:05:23.250 --> 01:05:24.760\ngot prepared,\n\n1538\n01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:29.550\nhow he how he visualized what he wanted to have happen, how he analyzed, you\n\n1539\n01:05:29.550 --> 01:05:30.200\nknow, the\n\n1540\n01:05:30.200 --> 01:05:35.940\nresult and, you know, went back after a very poor round of hitting the ball and\n\n1541\n01:05:35.940 --> 01:05:36.640\nfigured\n\n1542\n01:05:36.640 --> 01:05:42.480\nout, you know, this is how he could improve his iron play and, you know, how he\n\n1543\n01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:43.200\nkept being\n\n1544\n01:05:43.200 --> 01:05:48.030\npersisted even in the face of adversity, you know, but she she picked up a lot\n\n1545\n01:05:48.030 --> 01:05:48.360\nof these\n\n1546\n01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:52.210\nRory McElroy things that she saw at the masters and turned it into a\n\n1547\n01:05:52.210 --> 01:05:53.360\npresentation.\n\n1548\n01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:57.470\nAnd so she just wasn't up there, you know, talking about a bunch of boring\n\n1549\n01:05:57.470 --> 01:05:58.120\nstuff.\n\n1550\n01:05:58.120 --> 01:06:01.030\nShe made it relevant for everybody and people came up to her afterwards and\n\n1551\n01:06:01.030 --> 01:06:02.160\nsaid, Hey,\n\n1552\n01:06:02.160 --> 01:06:04.000\nyou know, that's really powerful.\n\n1553\n01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:07.140\nYou know, another great example, I think it's really worked for me as I always\n\n1554\n01:06:07.140 --> 01:06:07.760\ntalk about\n\n1555\n01:06:07.760 --> 01:06:10.400\nit's my three by five card where, you know, what are you today?\n\n1556\n01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:11.400\nWhat do you want to be tomorrow?\n\n1557\n01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:14.880\nThat's a very provocative way to get people to think about themselves.\n\n1558\n01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.640\nAnd they'll remember a three by five card.\n\n1559\n01:06:17.640 --> 01:06:22.000\nYou know, they're not going to review a they're not going to remember a typical\n\n1560\n01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:22.800\nperformance\n\n1561\n01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:27.650\nreview or performance assessment, you know, so, you know, think about how you\n\n1562\n01:06:27.650 --> 01:06:28.520\ncommunicate\n\n1563\n01:06:28.520 --> 01:06:31.920\nin a way that you you'll break through the clutter and you'll be rewarded for\n\n1564\n01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:32.560\nit.\n\n1565\n01:06:32.560 --> 01:06:36.960\nDavid, this next topic is on what JC calls helicopter vision.\n\n1566\n01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:41.080\nAnd in the episode he talks about how his dad was a Navy helicopter pilot and\n\n1567\n01:06:41.080 --> 01:06:41.720\nhe talked\n\n1568\n01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:45.600\nabout, you know, his dad's experience and how he adapted that to his leadership\n\n1569\n01:06:45.600 --> 01:06:45.880\n.\n\n1570\n01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:51.040\nSo helicopter vision for leaders is where you can fly up to, you know, 10,000\n\n1571\n01:06:51.040 --> 01:06:52.200\nfeet above\n\n1572\n01:06:52.200 --> 01:06:55.000\nground to see the big picture of what's going on.\n\n1573\n01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.800\nBut you can also land on the ground and engage with whatever is happening down\n\n1574\n01:06:58.800 --> 01:06:59.320\nthere.\n\n1575\n01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:03.010\nAnd then you can float back up when you need to to maintain your understanding\n\n1576\n01:07:03.010 --> 01:07:03.600\nof what's\n\n1577\n01:07:03.600 --> 01:07:05.560\nreally going on in the big picture.\n\n1578\n01:07:05.560 --> 01:07:09.480\nAnd I know a lot of leaders feel torn between those two.\n\n1579\n01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:13.790\nSo how do you know which of those altitudes, if you will, that you need to be\n\n1580\n01:07:13.790 --> 01:07:14.080\nat?\n\n1581\n01:07:14.080 --> 01:07:19.710\nWell, I think you have to be at both and, you know, and that there are\n\n1582\n01:07:19.710 --> 01:07:21.200\ndifferent times\n\n1583\n01:07:21.200 --> 01:07:23.600\nwhen one takes precedent over the other.\n\n1584\n01:07:23.600 --> 01:07:27.600\nBut, you know, sometimes, you know, you're struggling.\n\n1585\n01:07:27.600 --> 01:07:29.360\nYour business is struggling.\n\n1586\n01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:34.240\nYou know, what you've been doing isn't really working the way I used to work.\n\n1587\n01:07:34.240 --> 01:07:36.360\nAnd you got to rethink your business.\n\n1588\n01:07:36.360 --> 01:07:40.260\nSo you got to go up, you got to go up and you got to see the world the way out\n\n1589\n01:07:40.260 --> 01:07:40.720\nreally\n\n1590\n01:07:40.720 --> 01:07:42.560\nis not the way how you want it to be.\n\n1591\n01:07:42.560 --> 01:07:47.630\nYou got to really see the whole landscape out there, you know, so that you can\n\n1592\n01:07:47.630 --> 01:07:47.920\nreally\n\n1593\n01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:54.060\nfigure out what you can do to create a vision and a future back for your\n\n1594\n01:07:54.060 --> 01:07:55.200\ncompany or for\n\n1595\n01:07:55.200 --> 01:07:58.600\nyour team that will allow you to win.\n\n1596\n01:07:58.600 --> 01:08:00.920\nAnd so I think that's when you go up.\n\n1597\n01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:04.240\nAnd then once you've figured that out, you got to go down and make sure you\n\n1598\n01:08:04.240 --> 01:08:04.880\nexecute the\n\n1599\n01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:06.280\nheck out of it.\n\n1600\n01:08:06.280 --> 01:08:10.120\nAnd, you know, but strategy, vision without the execution doesn't work.\n\n1601\n01:08:10.120 --> 01:08:11.840\nEverybody knows that.\n\n1602\n01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:17.240\nSo, you know, that's something that I think you constantly have to do.\n\n1603\n01:08:17.240 --> 01:08:19.400\nAnd you got to have ways to do that.\n\n1604\n01:08:19.400 --> 01:08:24.310\nFor me, it was always being in touch with the customer, always doing landmark\n\n1605\n01:08:24.310 --> 01:08:24.800\nresearch\n\n1606\n01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:29.160\nto try to identify what they were thinking today, you know, what had changed\n\n1607\n01:08:29.160 --> 01:08:29.640\nfrom the\n\n1608\n01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:32.080\nprevious year.\n\n1609\n01:08:32.080 --> 01:08:35.280\nAnd usually when you lose sight of what's going on there, that's when you got\n\n1610\n01:08:35.280 --> 01:08:35.840\nto go up\n\n1611\n01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:41.940\nand find new data and see the world in a way that allows you to reposition your\n\n1612\n01:08:41.940 --> 01:08:42.520\nbrand\n\n1613\n01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:47.560\nin a different way or reposition you yourself as a leader in a different way or\n\n1614\n01:08:47.560 --> 01:08:48.000\nhelp your\n\n1615\n01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:49.520\nteam win.\n\n1616\n01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:55.290\nAnd you know, I think that the big picture and the executional side of things\n\n1617\n01:08:55.290 --> 01:08:56.000\nare both\n\n1618\n01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:00.200\nvery important and the best leaders find a way to get the magic of the end.\n\n1619\n01:09:00.200 --> 01:09:01.200\nI love the episode.\n\n1620\n01:09:01.200 --> 01:09:04.930\nBut JC says this a couple times, he says, \"What got you here won't get you\n\n1621\n01:09:04.930 --> 01:09:05.600\nthere.\"\n\n1622\n01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:10.650\nAnd so I love that analogy of the helicopter because if you stay on the ground\n\n1623\n01:09:10.650 --> 01:09:11.440\ntoo long,\n\n1624\n01:09:11.440 --> 01:09:14.560\nyou run the risk of just doing the same thing with losing sight of the bigger\n\n1625\n01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:15.080\npicture.\n\n1626\n01:09:15.080 --> 01:09:18.530\nBut if you're constantly sort of going between the two, you can continue to\n\n1627\n01:09:18.530 --> 01:09:19.520\nevolve and iterate\n\n1628\n01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:24.080\nand strengthen every piece of your business so that you continue making strides\n\n1629\n01:09:24.080 --> 01:09:24.680\ntowards\n\n1630\n01:09:24.680 --> 01:09:26.080\nwhat you want to get done.\n\n1631\n01:09:26.080 --> 01:09:27.080\nAbsolutely.\n\n1632\n01:09:27.080 --> 01:09:28.080\nAbsolutely.\n\n1633\n01:09:28.080 --> 01:09:29.080\nCool.\n\n1634\n01:09:29.080 --> 01:09:34.960\nThere's a great marketing person, one of the better ones we've had on the show.\n\n1635\n01:09:34.960 --> 01:09:40.960\nAnd I think we learned a few things today that are really, really important.\n\n1636\n01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:45.160\nNumber one, the importance of reframing what you sell.\n\n1637\n01:09:45.160 --> 01:09:50.240\nUnderstand what your product is, what its product functions are.\n\n1638\n01:09:50.240 --> 01:09:56.350\nBut make sure you position it in the broadest possible way so that you can get\n\n1639\n01:09:56.350 --> 01:09:57.160\nthe most\n\n1640\n01:09:57.160 --> 01:10:04.870\nmarket share in a category and that sticker's going from a candy bar to a snack\n\n1641\n01:10:04.870 --> 01:10:05.480\nis a great\n\n1642\n01:10:05.480 --> 01:10:07.240\nexample of that.\n\n1643\n01:10:07.240 --> 01:10:10.640\nAnd then you got to break through the clutter with your communication.\n\n1644\n01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:14.200\nThat Canadian PowerPoint ideas is really great.\n\n1645\n01:10:14.200 --> 01:10:17.440\nBut as a leader, you got to know what you want to communicate.\n\n1646\n01:10:17.440 --> 01:10:21.510\nAnd then you got to make sure you communicate it in a way that people hear it\n\n1647\n01:10:21.510 --> 01:10:22.320\nand remember\n\n1648\n01:10:22.320 --> 01:10:23.320\nit.\n\n1649\n01:10:23.320 --> 01:10:25.990\nAnd they don't fall asleep and yawn because it looks like and sounds like\n\n1650\n01:10:25.990 --> 01:10:26.720\neverything else\n\n1651\n01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:28.000\nthey've heard.\n\n1652\n01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:34.550\nAnd then last but not least, there's a tremendous characteristic that any great\n\n1653\n01:10:34.550 --> 01:10:35.920\nleader has.\n\n1654\n01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:40.370\nAnd that's the ability to see the big picture but also execute and get things\n\n1655\n01:10:40.370 --> 01:10:40.960\ndone.\n\n1656\n01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:46.840\nAnd that's why taking that helicopter ride up and down is very important.\n\n1657\n01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:50.680\nWell, thank you so much for an excellent episode.\n\n1658\n01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:53.960\nAnd thank you to our listeners for tuning in to How Leaders Lead.\n\n1659\n01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:55.240\nWe will see you next Thursday.\n\n1660\n01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:06.720\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL1036457376.mp3","dx_media_id",3616,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-04-23","itunes_episode_id",288,"youtube_id","YJnVConhniQ","2026-08-19T21:38:07.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with James “JC” Curleigh, CEO of Pelican, and discover how to reframe what you sell to expand your 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Use a message triangle to communicate big ideas

James "JC" Curleigh