[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_139":-5,"_140":-5,"_141":142,"_143":144,"_145":146},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3324/empathy-matters-most-in-the-hardest-moments","id",3324,"title","Empathy matters most in the hardest moments","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.320\nwe decided to outsource our sales team and we decided that going to a broker\n\n2\n00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:07.360\nmodel was\n\n3\n00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:12.720\na better option for us and so delivering that message to about 50 people was\n\n4\n00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:14.240\nreally difficult.\n\n5\n00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:19.600\nIn that moment, sharing with those people that we understood what they were\n\n6\n00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:20.160\ngoing through,\n\n7\n00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:25.440\nthat we were here to support their transition, we essentially set up, made sure\n\n8\n00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:26.560\nthat every single\n\n9\n00:00:26.560 --> 00:00:32.170\nindividual not only got their severance package but that they also, we were\n\n10\n00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:34.560\nsetting up interviews\n\n11\n00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:40.110\nfor every one of them with our broker partner and so right out of the gate,\n\n12\n00:00:40.110 --> 00:00:40.960\nevery individual\n\n13\n00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:47.240\nhad an opportunity to move over to the broker partner and many of them did and\n\n14\n00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:48.480\nI heard more\n\n15\n00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:55.040\nthank yous than complaints from that team because we helped them, we showed\n\n16\n00:00:55.040 --> 00:00:57.680\ncompassion and we\n\n17\n00:00:57.680 --> 00:01:01.600\ndemonstrated that that we were there to help even though we were making a tough\n\n18\n00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:02.400\nbusiness decision\n\n19\n00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:06.630\nfor this benefit of the business that we were truly there to support them\n\n20\n00:01:06.630 --> 00:01:08.400\nthrough that transition as well.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1211249,"end_time",1279759,"keywords","Empathy, layoffs, sales team, hard conversations, compassion","slug","empathy-matters-most-in-the-hardest-moments","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","7ZaiqcOLPJD01tUhgrmg01WELRdHEmd5tHIdF7cQncD1w","mux_asset_id","NDqboMCqTcI198bt2BeTkgn5GhF4jzzxgssdG3vb4Q00","leader_id",278,"episode_id",429,"updated_at","2026-05-14T15:46:02.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3324/empathy-matters-most-in-the-hardest-moments","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_107":108,"_25":109,"_110":111,"_61":112,"_58":112,"_113":114,"_68":115,"_39":116,"_117":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_118":119,"_91":120,"_44":121,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_46":-5,"_126":127,"_128":129,"_95":130,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Understand the soul of your brand","understand-the-soul-of-your-brand","Take time to define the soul of your brand – what it's really all about. That clarity can inform your creative decisions and help you stay relevant no matter how consumer tastes evolve.","summary","

What’s the soul of your brand? And why might it be the secret to unlocking a new chapter of growth for your company?

Today, David sits down with Mark Smucker. He’s the CEO and Chair of The J.M. Smucker Company, which is home to iconic brands like Smucker’s, Folgers, Uncrustables, Hostess, and Milk Bone.

And he’s obsessed with understanding the soul of a brand. By knowing what his brands truly stand for, he and his team can make smarter creative decisions, take the right risks, and keep growing even when consumer tastes shift.

If you want a brand that’s relevant, authentic, and successful, don’t miss this episode.

You’ll also learn:

The question Mark asks before making any creative decision
How to make your core values more than just a list of ideals
Why it took 10 years to scale Uncrustables (hint: it involves bread bubbles)
The marketing principle that put Ludacris in a JIF commercial

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.760\nHello, friends, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:03.760 --> 00:00:04.400\nNovak.\n\n3\n00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:08.980\nToday, David sits down with Mark Smucker, who's the CEO and chair of the JN Sm\n\n4\n00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:09.520\nucker Company,\n\n5\n00:00:09.520 --> 00:00:14.160\nwhich is home to some of the most iconic brands, like Smucker's, Folgers, Uncr\n\n6\n00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:15.360\nustables, Hostess,\n\n7\n00:00:15.360 --> 00:00:19.200\nand Nokbom. In this episode, you'll learn how to build a brand that's relevant,\n\n8\n00:00:19.200 --> 00:00:19.920\nauthentic,\n\n9\n00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:23.590\nand successful. You'll learn how to get to the soul of your brand and\n\n10\n00:00:23.590 --> 00:00:25.200\ncommunicate that soul in a way\n\n11\n00:00:25.200 --> 00:00:29.800\nthat drives customer acquisition and growth. Enjoy this conversation with David\n\n12\n00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:30.320\nand Mark,\n\n13\n00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:32.000\nand I will see you at the debrief.\n\n14\n00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:43.020\nI hear you're quite the cook, and you love to cook. It's a hobby of yours. And\n\n15\n00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:43.760\nif I were to come\n\n16\n00:00:43.760 --> 00:00:47.900\nover to your house for dinner, what would be on your menu? Well, let me tell\n\n17\n00:00:47.900 --> 00:00:48.960\nyou, first and foremost,\n\n18\n00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:54.770\nI got to say, my wife is a better cook than I am. Good point. And I cook\n\n19\n00:00:54.770 --> 00:00:55.920\nbecause she helped me\n\n20\n00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:59.940\nlearn to cook when we were first together. We honeymooned in Thailand. I've\n\n21\n00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:01.200\nbeen to Thailand a couple\n\n22\n00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.690\ntimes. We did some cooking classes there, so I really like to go and get all\n\n23\n00:01:04.690 --> 00:01:05.600\nthe ingredients at\n\n24\n00:01:05.600 --> 00:01:11.200\nthe local Asian markets and cook Thai food. And then I grill and do, you know,\n\n25\n00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:12.000\nsmoke, you know,\n\n26\n00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:18.000\nbriskets and do stuff that the guys do on the outside grill, right? Right.\n\n27\n00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:18.880\nAbsolutely. You know,\n\n28\n00:01:18.880 --> 00:01:22.370\nthat's what I do. I specialize in the grill, on the grill master of my house.\n\n29\n00:01:22.370 --> 00:01:23.360\nYou know, so it's\n\n30\n00:01:23.360 --> 00:01:28.110\nnow now, as I understand it, you started your career as eighth grade science\n\n31\n00:01:28.110 --> 00:01:28.960\nteacher.\n\n32\n00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:35.140\nYou know, what's the story of you in the classroom that would give us a picture\n\n33\n00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:35.920\nof your leadership\n\n34\n00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:42.160\nstyle? I really liked science, right? And my growing up, my parents encouraged\n\n35\n00:01:42.160 --> 00:01:42.880\nus to study\n\n36\n00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:47.820\nsomething that we liked. I really liked science. I was a majoring in geology\n\n37\n00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:49.520\nand college. And I\n\n38\n00:01:49.520 --> 00:01:53.500\nwanted to use my degree. So I ended up teaching or eighth grade science in the\n\n39\n00:01:53.500 --> 00:01:54.800\ndeep south in Montgomery\n\n40\n00:01:54.800 --> 00:02:01.090\nAlabama. And I really felt like I was fun. I wore bow tie sometimes. I think\n\n41\n00:02:01.090 --> 00:02:02.320\nsome of the parents\n\n42\n00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:07.320\nthought I was a student because I look so young. But I like to have fun with\n\n43\n00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:08.400\nthe kids. And\n\n44\n00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:14.480\noccasionally, I would probably jump up on the desks and do crazy things. But I\n\n45\n00:02:14.480 --> 00:02:15.680\nreally enjoyed\n\n46\n00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:21.280\nteaching them. It wasn't about rocks and fossils. It was about how to analyze,\n\n47\n00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:22.320\nvisually look at\n\n48\n00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:27.290\nsomething and determine what, what had happened throughout history. And so I\n\n49\n00:02:27.290 --> 00:02:28.560\nreally enjoyed trying\n\n50\n00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:34.240\nto get them to learn how to think analytically. And that was fun for me. It was\n\n51\n00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:35.440\na great experience.\n\n52\n00:02:35.440 --> 00:02:38.540\nNow, when you think about business and your passion for history and\n\n53\n00:02:38.540 --> 00:02:40.160\nunderstanding why things\n\n54\n00:02:40.160 --> 00:02:46.080\nare the way they are, how is that transferred into how you tackle problems or\n\n55\n00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:47.600\ntry to grow the\n\n56\n00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:51.090\nbusiness? You know, when you go through some of these leadership development\n\n57\n00:02:51.090 --> 00:02:51.600\nthings throughout\n\n58\n00:02:51.600 --> 00:02:56.180\nyour career, you learn what type of person you are. I happen to be somebody who\n\n59\n00:02:56.180 --> 00:02:56.960\nsort of\n\n60\n00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:01.540\nbalanced left and right brain. I sort of have a creative side, which I think is\n\n61\n00:03:01.540 --> 00:03:02.480\nwhy I enjoy\n\n62\n00:03:02.480 --> 00:03:08.000\nmarketing so much. But also that analytical side helps me solve problems. So I\n\n63\n00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.080\nthink, I sort of\n\n64\n00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:15.420\nthink of myself maybe as a marketer first and foremost. But I do, I like to\n\n65\n00:03:15.420 --> 00:03:16.720\nsolve problems. And\n\n66\n00:03:16.720 --> 00:03:21.300\nI think having that analytical side is helpful in business as well. So now you\n\n67\n00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:23.440\n're the six CEO\n\n68\n00:03:23.440 --> 00:03:29.280\nin a 128 year plus history of JM Smucker Company. And your great, great\n\n69\n00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:30.800\ngrandfather started the\n\n70\n00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.870\nbusiness. When you walk into the office each day, what emotion do you feel the\n\n71\n00:03:35.870 --> 00:03:36.720\nmost? You know,\n\n72\n00:03:36.720 --> 00:03:41.390\nwalking into a family business that's been around for as long as you're company\n\n73\n00:03:41.390 --> 00:03:41.680\n?\n\n74\n00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:47.360\nFirst of all, pride. There's no question, right? And the brands that we have\n\n75\n00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:49.760\nare amazing. And\n\n76\n00:03:49.760 --> 00:03:54.560\nfrankly, my predecessors help to grow the business to where it is today through\n\n77\n00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:56.560\na lot of acquisitions.\n\n78\n00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:01.140\nI've contributed to that as well. And I've been around for that. What gets me\n\n79\n00:04:01.140 --> 00:04:02.400\ngoing and why I\n\n80\n00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:07.470\nlove the business is two things. It's the brands and it's the people. And I'm\n\n81\n00:04:07.470 --> 00:04:08.800\npassionate about\n\n82\n00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:13.430\nbrands, how to build brands. And I'm passionate about people and trying to\n\n83\n00:04:13.430 --> 00:04:15.280\nnurture and sustain\n\n84\n00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:19.860\nand improve our culture, which is, I think, a competitive advantage. You know,\n\n85\n00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:20.720\nI'm kind of\n\n86\n00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:26.700\nsurprised that learning your history that you're a science teacher. And yet you\n\n87\n00:04:26.700 --> 00:04:27.920\nlove the marketing\n\n88\n00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:30.570\nside of the business. So obviously you got that analytical side. And you\n\n89\n00:04:30.570 --> 00:04:31.360\nmentioned you had the\n\n90\n00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.920\nright brain skills too. When did you get the sense that, hey, this passion for\n\n91\n00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:36.720\nthe brands is really\n\n92\n00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.940\nsomething that you loved and getting digging into the marketing? For a long\n\n93\n00:04:40.940 --> 00:04:42.000\ntime, I actually,\n\n94\n00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:48.480\nI went to college out of state. I was a teacher. I did my business degree. And\n\n95\n00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:49.040\nthen I left the\n\n96\n00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:54.220\ncountry. And so I wanted to live abroad. So I was an expat. My first job\n\n97\n00:04:54.220 --> 00:04:55.840\nleaving the country was,\n\n98\n00:04:55.840 --> 00:05:01.920\nI worked at Leo Burnett in Argentina, the advertising agency. And I loved\n\n99\n00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:03.600\nadvertising and brands.\n\n100\n00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.560\nAnd so I started there. I enjoyed living abroad because I wanted to learn a\n\n101\n00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.160\nlanguage, which I did.\n\n102\n00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:15.340\nAnd I liked the anonymity. Nobody could pronounce my name, my last name. And I\n\n103\n00:05:15.340 --> 00:05:16.560\nreally liked the fact\n\n104\n00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:22.880\nthat I was in a place where I could just be myself and my name meant nothing.\n\n105\n00:05:22.880 --> 00:05:25.360\nAnd so I could just be\n\n106\n00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:31.270\na regular guy. And I think I gravitate to that sense of authenticity. And I\n\n107\n00:05:31.270 --> 00:05:32.400\nbelieve that that\n\n108\n00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:37.480\nmakes me a good leader. But the brand passion started there. And then I later\n\n109\n00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:38.880\njoined the company\n\n110\n00:05:38.880 --> 00:05:44.070\nand grew up in various roles. And ultimately, my experience running the\n\n111\n00:05:44.070 --> 00:05:45.520\nCanadian division\n\n112\n00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:50.100\nwas where I got really locked in and passionate about the whole business and\n\n113\n00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:51.120\nthe brands we own.\n\n114\n00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:55.700\nWhat's something about leading a family named company that people outside the\n\n115\n00:05:55.700 --> 00:05:56.480\nbusiness completely\n\n116\n00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:02.240\nmisunderstand? Well, I think first of all, we're a public company, right? And\n\n117\n00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:03.120\nwe've been public\n\n118\n00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:08.880\nsince 1959. So it's really important for us to do right by our shareholders, as\n\n119\n00:06:08.880 --> 00:06:09.680\nyou know.\n\n120\n00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:15.080\nBut it really starts with the consumer. And we have to serve the needs of the\n\n121\n00:06:15.080 --> 00:06:16.080\nconsumer.\n\n122\n00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:24.640\nI do think being a family member helps build the culture because it provides a\n\n123\n00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:25.440\nsense of\n\n124\n00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:30.850\nsecurity for employees, knowing that there is this long legacy and this long\n\n125\n00:06:30.850 --> 00:06:31.600\nhistory.\n\n126\n00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:36.400\nBut at the end of the day, just like any CEO, I have to perform and I have to\n\n127\n00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:36.880\nmake sure that\n\n128\n00:06:36.880 --> 00:06:41.120\nI'm delivering results and that we're growing the business. Yeah, I'm curious,\n\n129\n00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:41.600\nMark, is there\n\n130\n00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:46.180\nanything about having the family name on the building that makes the job\n\n131\n00:06:46.180 --> 00:06:47.520\nactually harder?\n\n132\n00:06:47.520 --> 00:06:53.040\nYes, we have there's there's a lot of family members. Family members have a lot\n\n133\n00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:53.680\nof opinions.\n\n134\n00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:59.050\nSo you're, you know, they care, right? And that's the good thing. Like family\n\n135\n00:06:59.050 --> 00:07:00.160\nmembers care\n\n136\n00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:04.720\nhow the business is doing. So I have that extra constituent. I got to answer a\n\n137\n00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:05.280\nlot of questions\n\n138\n00:07:05.280 --> 00:07:13.670\nsometimes. So Christmas is pretty interesting at this. Speaking of the family\n\n139\n00:07:13.670 --> 00:07:14.240\nname, I've got a\n\n140\n00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:18.820\nstory for you. And this is a story about your theme line, which is what the\n\n141\n00:07:18.820 --> 00:07:19.520\nname like Smuckers\n\n142\n00:07:19.520 --> 00:07:24.220\nhas got to be good. And I heard this story, it was told by Mark Wise, who is\n\n143\n00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:25.440\nthe CEO of the\n\n144\n00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:32.570\nLois Wise Advertising Agency. His wife was Lois Wise. And he she was a Hall of\n\n145\n00:07:32.570 --> 00:07:33.840\nFame copywriter.\n\n146\n00:07:33.840 --> 00:07:38.000\nAnd one he told he tells the story. One day she sits down at the at the\n\n147\n00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:43.180\ntypewriter and types out this line with the name like Smuckers has got to be\n\n148\n00:07:43.180 --> 00:07:43.840\ngood. And she says,\n\n149\n00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:47.440\nI've just written the greatest theme line you're ever going to see. Now it's\n\n150\n00:07:47.440 --> 00:07:48.480\nyour job to go sell\n\n151\n00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.970\nit because he was the account guy. And so he says he goes into the Smucker\n\n152\n00:07:51.970 --> 00:07:52.880\nbuilding. He's in\n\n153\n00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:57.680\nthe conference room. And you know, Mr. Smucker was very, very revered. He was,\n\n154\n00:07:57.680 --> 00:07:58.480\nyou know, obviously\n\n155\n00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:02.770\nthe titular head of the company. And and he presents this line with the name\n\n156\n00:08:02.770 --> 00:08:03.520\nlike Smuckers,\n\n157\n00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:08.100\nit's got to be good. Well, everybody on the team just was up and roars. They\n\n158\n00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:09.200\ncould not believe\n\n159\n00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:14.580\nthat they would they'd have the audacity to bring this line in. And Mark Wise\n\n160\n00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:14.880\nsaid,\n\n161\n00:08:14.880 --> 00:08:19.360\nto Mr. Smucker, he said, Mr. Smucker, he said, you know, when you were a kid,\n\n162\n00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:24.800\ndid kids make fun of you? Because of your name? He says, Oh, Mark, I got quite\n\n163\n00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:25.680\na few fights over\n\n164\n00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:29.510\nthat wood. Yeah, I did. He said, well, guess what? If you have a little fun\n\n165\n00:08:29.510 --> 00:08:30.320\nwith your name,\n\n166\n00:08:30.320 --> 00:08:34.900\npeople will like you for it. Now, you know, as I understand, Smucker's\n\n167\n00:08:34.900 --> 00:08:36.400\nestablished Ohio company\n\n168\n00:08:36.400 --> 00:08:40.240\nand he looked at Mark and he says, all right, you could test the theme line,\n\n169\n00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:41.200\nbut you can't run\n\n170\n00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:47.510\nthat ad in Ohio. So as it turns out, Mr. Smucker, as as Mark tells the story\n\n171\n00:08:47.510 --> 00:08:49.120\ngets on a plane, he said\n\n172\n00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:53.700\nnow at the Las Vegas, he's got a luggage tag or something there that says Sm\n\n173\n00:08:53.700 --> 00:08:54.240\nucker on it.\n\n174\n00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.820\nAnd this beautiful steward stewardess looks over at him and says, Hey, with a\n\n175\n00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:00.160\nname like Smucker's,\n\n176\n00:09:00.160 --> 00:09:05.600\nyou've got to be good. Well, he gets off the plane, calls Mark Wise and says,\n\n177\n00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:06.240\nyou know, Mark,\n\n178\n00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:11.680\nthat theme line really stands out. People remember it. You've got to run that\n\n179\n00:09:11.680 --> 00:09:13.760\ntheme line in Ohio.\n\n180\n00:09:13.760 --> 00:09:17.980\nNow that's the story I heard. And I thought it was a great story because it's a\n\n181\n00:09:17.980 --> 00:09:18.720\ngreat example\n\n182\n00:09:19.280 --> 00:09:23.920\nof how consumers will really like you if you don't take yourself too seriously\n\n183\n00:09:23.920 --> 00:09:24.800\nand having a\n\n184\n00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:28.160\nlittle fun with your name clearly has worked. And I think that theme line still\n\n185\n00:09:28.160 --> 00:09:28.960\nexists today.\n\n186\n00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.540\nYeah, it does. With a name like Smucker's, it has to be good. It's still the\n\n187\n00:09:33.540 --> 00:09:34.320\ntag line for\n\n188\n00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:39.240\nSmucker's jams and jellies. And that you're right, that that idea of being a\n\n189\n00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:40.800\nbit self-deprecating\n\n190\n00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:46.230\nprovides us as leaders with a sense of vulnerability and allows our people to\n\n191\n00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:47.760\nconnect to us. And\n\n192\n00:09:47.760 --> 00:09:54.480\nhonestly, Paul, that was my grandfather, who that story was about, was we all\n\n193\n00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:55.200\ngrew up with that\n\n194\n00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.900\nlast name, right? And it does rhyme with things that are very unpleasant, right\n\n195\n00:09:58.900 --> 00:09:59.920\n? Some four letter\n\n196\n00:09:59.920 --> 00:10:05.250\nwords. So, you know, we've heard all the jokes, right? There's, there's nothing\n\n197\n00:10:05.250 --> 00:10:06.000\nnew that you can\n\n198\n00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:10.550\nbring that I that we probably haven't heard. But it is, it is a, it is, you can\n\n199\n00:10:10.550 --> 00:10:11.360\n't take yourselves\n\n200\n00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:16.240\ntoo seriously. And Paul, my grandfather used to say, we're just making jelly.\n\n201\n00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:17.200\nIt's not rocket\n\n202\n00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:22.380\nscience. It brings joy to consumers. And that's what, that's what the brand\n\n203\n00:10:22.380 --> 00:10:23.520\nreally stands for.\n\n204\n00:10:23.520 --> 00:10:27.660\nAnd it is, you know, Lois Wise gets in the advertising hall of fame. And that\n\n205\n00:10:27.660 --> 00:10:28.160\nwas her claim\n\n206\n00:10:28.160 --> 00:10:32.740\nto fame, the fact that she wrote that line. And it is, and it has endured like\n\n207\n00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:33.680\ngreat brands do.\n\n208\n00:10:33.680 --> 00:10:39.600\nAnd it's timeless because it taps into that self-deprecating humor that people\n\n209\n00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:40.080\nwill always\n\n210\n00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:45.170\nappreciate. You know, you know, like, like most brands, you look out for\n\n211\n00:10:45.170 --> 00:10:47.040\npartnerships to keep\n\n212\n00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:51.260\nyour brands relevant. And I'd love for you to tell us how you, you're linked up\n\n213\n00:10:51.260 --> 00:10:52.080\nwith Ludacris\n\n214\n00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:59.360\nfor Jeff. Actually, the story you just told is a very good segue because not\n\n215\n00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:00.800\nall slogans are\n\n216\n00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:07.250\neternal. And the Folger's jingle is, seems to be one of those that may be\n\n217\n00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:08.960\neternal. But\n\n218\n00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:14.140\nJeff was not. And you might recall choosy moms choose Jeff. Great. I thought\n\n219\n00:11:14.140 --> 00:11:14.720\nthat was great at\n\n220\n00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:19.720\nthe time. It was a great slogan. It was developed by PNG. We, we acquired the\n\n221\n00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:20.800\nbrand. We inherited\n\n222\n00:11:20.800 --> 00:11:25.430\nthat slogan. And we used it for many years, probably over a decade. And what we\n\n223\n00:11:25.430 --> 00:11:26.400\nlearned in doing\n\n224\n00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:32.850\nconsumer research was that slogan, in some cases, alienated consumers because\n\n225\n00:11:32.850 --> 00:11:33.920\nthere were single\n\n226\n00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:40.900\ndads. There were different, you know, the modern family is not always a husband\n\n227\n00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:41.920\nand a wife and\n\n228\n00:11:41.920 --> 00:11:48.900\nthe kids. And, and, and some people didn't like that slogan. So we tossed it.\n\n229\n00:11:48.900 --> 00:11:49.920\nWe got rid of it.\n\n230\n00:11:49.920 --> 00:11:54.500\nWe did a lot of research. And we, what we decided when we really started to\n\n231\n00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:55.600\nincrease our brand\n\n232\n00:11:55.600 --> 00:12:01.410\nbuilding skills in our, in our, in our marketing prowess was to, we made it a\n\n233\n00:12:01.410 --> 00:12:03.040\nstrategic decision\n\n234\n00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:09.110\nthat brands that are successful have to be inserted in modern culture. And some\n\n235\n00:12:09.110 --> 00:12:10.160\nway they have to be\n\n236\n00:12:10.160 --> 00:12:17.280\nrelevant in modern culture. And we first, we came up with an, an edgier slogan,\n\n237\n00:12:17.280 --> 00:12:17.760\nwhich is\n\n238\n00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:25.470\nthat gifting good, right? And so in terms of ludicrous, we had an opportunity\n\n239\n00:12:25.470 --> 00:12:26.400\nto work with him.\n\n240\n00:12:26.400 --> 00:12:32.320\nHe happened to be a huge, Jeff fan. We put it, we did a spoof on his own, his\n\n241\n00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:33.840\nold traditional,\n\n242\n00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:41.250\nyou know, 90s and 2000 style of rap, which is, you know, awesome. It's clear.\n\n243\n00:12:41.250 --> 00:12:42.000\nYou can understand\n\n244\n00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:46.060\nthe lyrics. And then in, in today's, there's a lot of this type of rap called m\n\n245\n00:12:46.060 --> 00:12:47.200\numble rap. So we got\n\n246\n00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:52.140\none of the mumble rap guys to participate. And he did it basically did a spoof\n\n247\n00:12:52.140 --> 00:12:53.600\non himself. And so,\n\n248\n00:12:54.160 --> 00:12:57.700\nbut, and it was right around the time when he was doing the Fast and Furious\n\n249\n00:12:57.700 --> 00:13:07.280\nmovies. And so it just hit.\n\n250\n00:13:07.280 --> 00:13:20.320\nThe slogan was, was a little bit edgy. He was making a comeback, was another\n\n251\n00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:21.360\nmodern rapper in\n\n252\n00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:25.360\nthere. And they just had fun with it. And it worked. And it really drove sales.\n\n253\n00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:31.160\nWhat was the internal reaction when, you know, his name was presented as a\n\n254\n00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:32.960\npotential partner?\n\n255\n00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:37.840\nOh, people were thrilled because employees are really realized that we were in\n\n256\n00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:38.640\nthe process of\n\n257\n00:13:38.640 --> 00:13:43.620\nreally modernizing these brands. And it's a, it's a mature category, right? It\n\n258\n00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:44.880\n's doesn't, peanut\n\n259\n00:13:44.880 --> 00:13:50.450\nbutter is everywhere. It's not growing super fast, but there's a number one\n\n260\n00:13:50.450 --> 00:13:51.920\nbrand. And in order to\n\n261\n00:13:51.920 --> 00:13:56.910\nsustain our market share and to really grow the brand, in addition to\n\n262\n00:13:56.910 --> 00:13:59.040\ninnovation, we had to have\n\n263\n00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:06.930\na more relevant type of advertising that really was relevant in today's culture\n\n264\n00:14:06.930 --> 00:14:07.280\n.\n\n265\n00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:10.880\nYou know, speaking of today's culture, your brands, I don't know if a company\n\n266\n00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:11.920\nthat has more\n\n267\n00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:16.060\niconic American brands, consumer packaged goods brands than you guys. I mean,\n\n268\n00:14:16.060 --> 00:14:17.200\nyou really do have,\n\n269\n00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:21.050\nthey just kind of rip off your tongue. When you think of the brands that you\n\n270\n00:14:21.050 --> 00:14:22.000\nhave, Mark,\n\n271\n00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:26.960\nwhich one tells us the most about where American culture is headed today?\n\n272\n00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.680\nI mean, we can talk a little bit about Folgers. Folgers is again, mature\n\n273\n00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:32.720\ncategory. It's the number\n\n274\n00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:37.550\none brand. It's a, it's a classic brand. You know, there's been spoofs on\n\n275\n00:14:37.550 --> 00:14:39.520\nSaturday Night Live,\n\n276\n00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:44.400\nmaybe not so favorable about, you know, former Folgers advertising. And we\n\n277\n00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:46.000\nrealized that we had\n\n278\n00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:51.180\nto modernize Folgers. So a couple of years ago, we did a, we did a campaign\n\n279\n00:14:51.180 --> 00:14:52.240\nthat involved\n\n280\n00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:58.980\ntrombone shorty, a very famous New Orleans trombonist in a second line, you\n\n281\n00:14:58.980 --> 00:14:59.840\nknow, in a\n\n282\n00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:05.600\nMardi Gras style parade. There was advertising that involved Joan Jett, you\n\n283\n00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:06.880\nknow, and some of her\n\n284\n00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:12.790\nmusic. And so for a moment, we took pause on the, on the best part of waking up\n\n285\n00:15:12.790 --> 00:15:13.360\njingle,\n\n286\n00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:20.080\nbrought Folgers back into the mainstream, doing homage to New Orleans, which is\n\n287\n00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:20.800\nwhere all the\n\n288\n00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:25.720\nproducts are made and roasted. And then just in the last few weeks, we launched\n\n289\n00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:26.960\na new campaign\n\n290\n00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:34.160\nbringing back the jingle, but actually using all types of pop and popular songs\n\n291\n00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:35.040\nfrom the last\n\n292\n00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:40.800\ndecade or so that actually talk about waking up. And so that campaign is now,\n\n293\n00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:41.760\nand it's actually\n\n294\n00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:46.340\ndone exceptionally well for the brand because the brand continues to hold the\n\n295\n00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:47.840\nnumber one position,\n\n296\n00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:53.120\ncontinues to grow. We've grown sales all throughout these last couple of years.\n\n297\n00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:58.640\nAnd those modernizing campaigns have really supported making sure that this\n\n298\n00:15:58.640 --> 00:15:59.360\nbrand remains\n\n299\n00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.170\nrelevant in today's culture. Yeah. And I guess when you think about it, you\n\n300\n00:16:03.170 --> 00:16:03.600\nknow,\n\n301\n00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:08.510\nthe American culture is one that embraces the great things of our past, but\n\n302\n00:16:08.510 --> 00:16:10.000\nloves loves to move\n\n303\n00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.580\nforward and keep, keep, keep that fresh edge. So you're doing a great job of\n\n304\n00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:15.440\nfiguring out how to\n\n305\n00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:20.030\ndo that. You know, I'd like to get more into how you, you, you lead. But I want\n\n306\n00:16:20.030 --> 00:16:20.960\nto take you back.\n\n307\n00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:25.180\nWhat's the story from your childhood that shaped the kind of leader that you\n\n308\n00:16:25.180 --> 00:16:25.680\nare today?\n\n309\n00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:29.820\nWell, I knew you're going to ask me that because I've listened to your podcast.\n\n310\n00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:30.480\nIt seems like you\n\n311\n00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:35.060\nasked that question to everybody. It's one of my favorites, by the way. I sort\n\n312\n00:16:35.060 --> 00:16:35.840\nof talked about it\n\n313\n00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:42.440\na little in that the fact that my family encouraged us to study and pursue\n\n314\n00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.240\nthings that we like. So\n\n315\n00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:51.050\nscience being one. I enjoy music. I enjoy travel. And actually, I think having\n\n316\n00:16:51.050 --> 00:16:53.440\npermission to go and\n\n317\n00:16:53.440 --> 00:17:00.000\nexplore a variety of different things encouraged my curiosity. Living abroad, I\n\n318\n00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.280\nlived in Argentina,\n\n319\n00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:06.370\nlived in Brazil. My wife also was an expat. And we eventually ended up in\n\n320\n00:17:06.370 --> 00:17:08.160\nCanada. And I think that\n\n321\n00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:15.280\nexploration of new topics, new cultures, meeting new people is really important\n\n322\n00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:16.160\nfor leadership,\n\n323\n00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:22.220\nbecause we have to continue to look outside these four walls to make sure that\n\n324\n00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:22.960\nwe understand\n\n325\n00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.560\nwhat's going on within the world around us with the consumer. And that\n\n326\n00:17:26.560 --> 00:17:28.400\ncuriosity helps drive\n\n327\n00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.910\ngrowth. And so I always encourage our people to really think about what's\n\n328\n00:17:33.910 --> 00:17:35.360\nhappening outside\n\n329\n00:17:35.360 --> 00:17:39.200\nin our industry so that we can compete better and that we can continue to win\n\n330\n00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:40.000\nwith our brands. I\n\n331\n00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:46.060\nthink curiosity is critical. And when you moved into the business, you worked\n\n332\n00:17:46.060 --> 00:17:47.120\nin just about every\n\n333\n00:17:47.120 --> 00:17:52.720\ncorner of the business from janitorial work to international roles. I mean, you\n\n334\n00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:53.760\ndid every gamut of\n\n335\n00:17:53.760 --> 00:17:58.450\nthe business. Which role changed how you think about leadership more than any\n\n336\n00:17:58.450 --> 00:17:59.600\nother that you did?\n\n337\n00:17:59.600 --> 00:18:08.160\nMy experience in Canada. Easy answer. My wife and I moved. We had two young\n\n338\n00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:09.840\nkids. We lived in Toronto.\n\n339\n00:18:09.840 --> 00:18:13.660\nOne of the big acquisitions that we did, we had acquired international multi\n\n340\n00:18:13.660 --> 00:18:14.560\nfoods, which in the\n\n341\n00:18:14.560 --> 00:18:19.760\nUS was primarily pillsbury baking mixes. And in Canada was this a large\n\n342\n00:18:19.760 --> 00:18:22.480\nbusiness that was flour,\n\n343\n00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:27.660\nother baking products, pickles, and so forth. And interestingly, the business\n\n344\n00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:29.120\nthat we inherited\n\n345\n00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:34.440\nin Canada was four times the size of our jam and jelly business in Canada. So\n\n346\n00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:35.360\nwe were like\n\n347\n00:18:35.360 --> 00:18:40.190\nthe minnow swallowing the whale. And they threw me up in there. So you're going\n\n348\n00:18:40.190 --> 00:18:41.360\nto run the business,\n\n349\n00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:48.040\nfigure it out. And so building a culture from, not from scratch, but\n\n350\n00:18:48.040 --> 00:18:50.080\nintegrating two cultures,\n\n351\n00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:55.400\nI had to make very difficult decisions around which businesses we were going to\n\n352\n00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:56.160\nkeep or which\n\n353\n00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:01.570\nwe would sell, how we were going to turn around a very unprofitable flour\n\n354\n00:19:01.570 --> 00:19:04.640\nbusiness, how we were going\n\n355\n00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:11.910\nto combine these two groups of people and develop a culture. That experience,\n\n356\n00:19:11.910 --> 00:19:13.120\nas challenging as it\n\n357\n00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:20.100\nwas, became exceptionally fun and taught me a lot about how to lead, about how\n\n358\n00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:21.760\nto communicate with\n\n359\n00:19:21.760 --> 00:19:28.070\npeople, how to show up authentically to be vulnerable. I was in my early to mid\n\n360\n00:19:28.070 --> 00:19:28.800\n30s,\n\n361\n00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:35.500\nand the business was roughly $400 million. So it wasn't a small business. And\n\n362\n00:19:35.500 --> 00:19:36.640\nall of those\n\n363\n00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:42.080\nexperiences, whether it's how to bring compassion to difficult decisions when\n\n364\n00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:43.200\nyou might be eliminating\n\n365\n00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:49.700\npart of the business and really show up in even the most difficult moments with\n\n366\n00:19:49.700 --> 00:19:51.120\nauthenticity and\n\n367\n00:19:51.120 --> 00:19:57.840\ncompassion really helps to bridge the gap in those relationships. So it was\n\n368\n00:19:57.840 --> 00:19:59.200\nbuilding a culture\n\n369\n00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:02.560\nand really trying to turn around brands that needed help.\n\n370\n00:20:02.560 --> 00:20:07.520\nIt's your story from that time where you had a really difficult challenge and\n\n371\n00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:08.320\nyou had to show\n\n372\n00:20:08.320 --> 00:20:13.520\nup with authenticity. I would say one is we decided to outsource our sales team\n\n373\n00:20:13.520 --> 00:20:16.720\n. And we decided that\n\n374\n00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:22.050\ngoing to a broker model was a better option for us. And so delivering that\n\n375\n00:20:22.050 --> 00:20:24.080\nmessage to about 50 people\n\n376\n00:20:24.080 --> 00:20:29.300\nwas really difficult. In that moment, sharing with those people that we\n\n377\n00:20:29.300 --> 00:20:30.720\nunderstood what they\n\n378\n00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:35.300\nwere going through, that we were here to support their transition, we\n\n379\n00:20:35.300 --> 00:20:36.720\nessentially set up, made sure\n\n380\n00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:41.930\nthat every single individual not only got their severance package, but that\n\n381\n00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:43.920\nthey also, we were\n\n382\n00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:49.810\nsetting up interviews for every one of them with our broker partner. And so\n\n383\n00:20:49.810 --> 00:20:51.200\nright out of the gate,\n\n384\n00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:56.420\nevery individual had an opportunity to move over to the broker partner, and\n\n385\n00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:57.360\nmany of them did.\n\n386\n00:20:57.360 --> 00:21:05.170\nAnd I heard more thank yous than complaints from that team because we helped\n\n387\n00:21:05.170 --> 00:21:06.640\nthem. We showed\n\n388\n00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:12.010\ncompassion and we demonstrated that we were there to help, even though we were\n\n389\n00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:12.640\nmaking a\n\n390\n00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:17.220\ntough business decision for the benefit of the business, that we were truly\n\n391\n00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:18.080\nthere to support\n\n392\n00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:22.300\nthem through that transition as well. And you said you were the minnow that\n\n393\n00:21:22.300 --> 00:21:23.040\nsort of swallowed\n\n394\n00:21:23.040 --> 00:21:28.300\nthe whale there, which is a great analogy. When you're the minnow and they're\n\n395\n00:21:28.300 --> 00:21:29.200\nthe big cheese,\n\n396\n00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:36.250\nbasically, how did you get credibility as a leader? Again, I think it's being\n\n397\n00:21:36.250 --> 00:21:36.880\nauthentic.\n\n398\n00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.520\nIt's having individual conversations with people. It's taking the time to step\n\n399\n00:21:41.520 --> 00:21:42.480\ninto their office\n\n400\n00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:47.800\nand ask them how they're doing. Just the act of asking someone, how are you?\n\n401\n00:21:47.800 --> 00:21:48.880\nHow is your family?\n\n402\n00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:55.440\nIt shows true care. The other thing that we always do is we want to make sure\n\n403\n00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:56.480\nthat our employees\n\n404\n00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:02.230\nunderstand that we know that they have a family behind them, that supports them\n\n405\n00:22:02.230 --> 00:22:03.920\n, because this\n\n406\n00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:10.100\ncompany was built not by individual employees. It was actually not by one\n\n407\n00:22:10.100 --> 00:22:11.440\nfamily, not by the\n\n408\n00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:17.680\nsmucker family. It was built by thousands of families over the years who put\n\n409\n00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:18.480\nblood sweat and\n\n410\n00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:25.610\ntears into this place to provide a livelihood for their own family. So it's not\n\n411\n00:22:25.610 --> 00:22:26.400\njust the people in\n\n412\n00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.980\nthese four walls. It's the spouses and the children that actually support the\n\n413\n00:22:30.980 --> 00:22:32.160\npeople that work here.\n\n414\n00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.270\nNow, you also mentioned in that particular situation, you had to bring two\n\n415\n00:22:35.270 --> 00:22:36.080\ncultures together.\n\n416\n00:22:36.080 --> 00:22:39.760\nWhat was the big insight there that you picked up?\n\n417\n00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:46.400\nOne is over-communicate. You can't say something once. You have to repeat\n\n418\n00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:47.680\nyourself over and over\n\n419\n00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:55.530\nagain and talk about what are our core values. Our core values are be bold, be\n\n420\n00:22:55.530 --> 00:22:58.080\nkind, do the right\n\n421\n00:22:58.080 --> 00:23:05.640\nthing, play to win, and thrive together. Those have evolved over time, but if\n\n422\n00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:06.160\nwe\n\n423\n00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:14.730\nwalk the talk and we embody and act and act truly and genuinely with those\n\n424\n00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:15.520\nvalues,\n\n425\n00:23:15.520 --> 00:23:21.970\nit resonates with people. One of the things that we do often with meetings is\n\n426\n00:23:21.970 --> 00:23:22.960\nwe start meetings\n\n427\n00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:27.770\nby asking individuals, \"Hey, in the last couple of weeks, can you give an\n\n428\n00:23:27.770 --> 00:23:28.960\nexample of someone on\n\n429\n00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:34.550\nyour team or a team or an action that actually demonstrates one of our basic\n\n430\n00:23:34.550 --> 00:23:36.480\nbeliefs?\" And by\n\n431\n00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:44.220\ncelebrating those small actions, it actually begins to ingrain those behaviors\n\n432\n00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:45.120\nand those\n\n433\n00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:51.870\nvalues into the culture. And so communicating those values consistently,\n\n434\n00:23:51.870 --> 00:23:53.360\nrepeatedly helps,\n\n435\n00:23:53.360 --> 00:24:00.340\nand then finding the right leaders who exemplify those values to lead teams\n\n436\n00:24:00.340 --> 00:24:01.680\nultimately builds\n\n437\n00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:06.880\ncamaraderie, and it's that spirit of being very open and communicative that\n\n438\n00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:07.760\ntruly helps.\n\n439\n00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:12.430\nHello, friends. I hope you're loving this conversation. Be sure to stay tuned\n\n440\n00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:13.120\nto the very\n\n441\n00:24:13.120 --> 00:24:16.530\nend of the episode. As always, David and I are going to debrief some of the\n\n442\n00:24:16.530 --> 00:24:17.680\nconcepts that he talks\n\n443\n00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.960\nabout with this week's guests. So stay tuned to the very end, and I will see\n\n444\n00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:22.720\nyou soon.\n\n445\n00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:27.810\nYou know, culture is critical for every great company and every great CEO knows\n\n446\n00:24:27.810 --> 00:24:28.640\nit makes it a\n\n447\n00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:33.860\nhigh priority. When you look at the values that you just laid out, that your\n\n448\n00:24:33.860 --> 00:24:35.360\ncompany has today,\n\n449\n00:24:35.360 --> 00:24:39.760\nis there one in particular you're really pushing forward that needs to be done\n\n450\n00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:45.130\nmore at your company? And if so, how do you do it? It's funny, a couple hours\n\n451\n00:24:45.130 --> 00:24:45.360\nago,\n\n452\n00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:52.110\nwe had a town hall meeting, all employees, and we talked about, you know, we're\n\n453\n00:24:52.110 --> 00:24:52.960\na Midwest company.\n\n454\n00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:59.940\nBe kind, thrive together, come really easily for Midwesterners, because it's\n\n455\n00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:00.640\neasy for us\n\n456\n00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:05.220\nto be nice to each other, to live the Golden Rule, if you will. It's pretty\n\n457\n00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:06.320\nbasic stuff.\n\n458\n00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:11.070\nThrive togethers about how we support our communities and each other. And one\n\n459\n00:25:11.070 --> 00:25:12.400\nof the things that were\n\n460\n00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:18.150\nbe bold is an aspirational one, and trying to encourage people to be\n\n461\n00:25:18.150 --> 00:25:20.000\ncomfortable in discomfort,\n\n462\n00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:23.650\nto be open to constructively challenge each other when they say, you know, I\n\n463\n00:25:23.650 --> 00:25:24.160\nthink I might\n\n464\n00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.830\nhave a better idea to how we can accomplish this goal. And to be comfortable\n\n465\n00:25:28.830 --> 00:25:29.760\nchallenging\n\n466\n00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:36.720\nme, their boss, whatever it may be, and trying to model those behaviors so that\n\n467\n00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:43.310\nspirit of being constructively challenging ultimately gets us to a better place\n\n468\n00:25:43.310 --> 00:25:45.280\n. It improves agility.\n\n469\n00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:52.480\nIt improves ideas. It gets us more thoughtful and bold innovation. And so those\n\n470\n00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:53.360\nbasic beliefs,\n\n471\n00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:58.240\nthose core values, we refer to them as basic beliefs, are really important to\n\n472\n00:25:58.240 --> 00:25:59.920\ngrow within\n\n473\n00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:05.100\nour culture so that we can continue to win and be competitive. So let's say I'm\n\n474\n00:26:05.100 --> 00:26:05.920\nin a meeting,\n\n475\n00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:10.640\nand I come up with a really bold idea, and you love it. Okay, what do you do?\n\n476\n00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.320\nWe celebrate it,\n\n477\n00:26:12.320 --> 00:26:17.640\nright? We'd say that's a great idea. Let's talk about that some more, because,\n\n478\n00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:18.640\nyou know, I think\n\n479\n00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:23.680\nsometimes one of the another term we always use is let's make sure we get all\n\n480\n00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:24.560\nthe brutal facts\n\n481\n00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:29.140\non the table. And the brutal facts are often things that aren't working. And so\n\n482\n00:26:29.140 --> 00:26:29.760\nif we can\n\n483\n00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:34.340\nidentify the things that aren't working and why they're not working, then we\n\n484\n00:26:34.340 --> 00:26:35.520\ncan try to be bolder\n\n485\n00:26:35.520 --> 00:26:40.540\nto try to fix them and improve a process. And a lot of what a lot of times is\n\n486\n00:26:40.540 --> 00:26:41.680\njust the way we're\n\n487\n00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:46.470\nworking, or they're not communicating. And so to the extent that we can\n\n488\n00:26:46.470 --> 00:26:47.840\nactually drive those\n\n489\n00:26:47.840 --> 00:26:53.440\nbehaviors, it will improve our competitivity. And ultimately, it improves the\n\n490\n00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:54.320\nculture.\n\n491\n00:26:54.320 --> 00:26:57.900\nYeah, one of the things that's been proven over and over again, whatever you\n\n492\n00:26:57.900 --> 00:26:58.480\nrecognize,\n\n493\n00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:02.960\npeople will do more of. And I bet you have a lot of examples of that, you know,\n\n494\n00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:08.160\nyou know, you talked a little bit about getting the brutal facts on the table.\n\n495\n00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:09.120\nAnd a lot of times\n\n496\n00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:13.860\nbusiness doesn't go the way how we want it to go. You know, can you recall a\n\n497\n00:27:13.860 --> 00:27:15.680\nleadership mistake,\n\n498\n00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:20.480\nor, or misstep that you made earlier on in your career that forced you to grow\n\n499\n00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:21.200\nfaster than you\n\n500\n00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.480\neven wanted to at the time, but really prepared you for the role that you're in\n\n501\n00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:26.240\nright now?\n\n502\n00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.720\nYou know, I think we've had, we've had marketing campaigns where\n\n503\n00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:37.440\nthat didn't work. When we first switched from choosy moms to that jiffing good,\n\n504\n00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:38.560\nwe did some very\n\n505\n00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:45.150\ncinematic advertising that was good, but it didn't totally hit the mark with\n\n506\n00:27:45.150 --> 00:27:46.320\nconsumers.\n\n507\n00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:53.370\nWe had some very quirky advertising back in the 90s that was maybe a little too\n\n508\n00:27:53.370 --> 00:27:54.080\ntongue in cheek\n\n509\n00:27:54.080 --> 00:27:58.220\nand didn't hit the mark. And I think we learned from those, we learned from\n\n510\n00:27:58.220 --> 00:27:59.040\nthose mistakes and\n\n511\n00:27:59.040 --> 00:28:02.360\nthose inform us about, well, why didn't we hit the mark? And what was the\n\n512\n00:28:02.360 --> 00:28:03.920\ninsight that we missed?\n\n513\n00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:08.500\nAnd we definitely learned from those. Let's talk about uncrustables for a\n\n514\n00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:09.280\nsecond. I mean,\n\n515\n00:28:09.280 --> 00:28:13.210\nwhat a brand that is. You know, it's basically a peanut butter and jelly\n\n516\n00:28:13.210 --> 00:28:14.000\nsandwich with the\n\n517\n00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:18.660\ncrust cut off. And yet it's on its way to becoming a billion dollar brand. You\n\n518\n00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:18.880\nknow,\n\n519\n00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.680\nwhat's the, what's the leadership insight behind, behind that great innovation?\n\n520\n00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:24.000\nI mean,\n\n521\n00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.680\nand, and this is one where I see people snacking on a lot.\n\n522\n00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:34.860\nThat one, we didn't have to do any advertising for about the first 20 years,\n\n523\n00:28:34.860 --> 00:28:36.960\nbecause it took us\n\n524\n00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:42.160\nabout a decade to figure out how to produce them at scale. And we couldn't make\n\n525\n00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:43.200\nenough of them.\n\n526\n00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:48.570\nBut what's been great about that brand, even though, even before we turned on\n\n527\n00:28:48.570 --> 00:28:49.360\nadvertising\n\n528\n00:28:49.360 --> 00:28:55.440\nand demand generation, it was already in culture, athletes, celebrities, you\n\n529\n00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.920\nknow, posting about\n\n530\n00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.520\nthem in their, in their social media, both of the Kelsey brothers organically\n\n531\n00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:02.960\nstarted talking about\n\n532\n00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:07.250\nhow much they love uncrustables on, on their podcast. And that turned into\n\n533\n00:29:07.250 --> 00:29:07.680\nsomething that\n\n534\n00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:09.920\nwe could actually partner with them.\n\n535\n00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:26.800\nSabrina Carpenter actually posted on her Instagram while she was singing one of\n\n536\n00:29:26.800 --> 00:29:27.520\nher new songs,\n\n537\n00:29:27.520 --> 00:29:32.890\nhad a grape uncrustable. And so that has been very organic. And we've been able\n\n538\n00:29:32.890 --> 00:29:33.120\nto\n\n539\n00:29:33.120 --> 00:29:38.320\nlatch on to some of those organic opportunities and continue that momentum.\n\n540\n00:29:38.320 --> 00:29:46.000\nThat product and that brand exists in almost every locker room of professional\n\n541\n00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:47.120\nsports teams.\n\n542\n00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:51.520\nWell, regardless of the sport, so it's basketball, football, baseball,\n\n543\n00:29:51.520 --> 00:29:56.100\nall those athletes are eating those and they talk about them. So that, that\n\n544\n00:29:56.100 --> 00:29:56.800\nbrand is going\n\n545\n00:29:56.800 --> 00:30:00.940\nto be a billion dollars this year. We're about to finish our fiscal. It's going\n\n546\n00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:01.520\nto be a billion\n\n547\n00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:05.370\ndollar brand. But it took you 10 years to figure out how to scale it. It took\n\n548\n00:30:05.370 --> 00:30:06.400\nus 10 years to figure\n\n549\n00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:09.730\nout how to scale it. It took us a long time to figure out how to make that\n\n550\n00:30:09.730 --> 00:30:11.440\nperfect pillowy,\n\n551\n00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:16.450\nsoft bread with no bubbles in it, which would lead to leaky sandwiches. And it\n\n552\n00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:17.520\ntook us a long\n\n553\n00:30:17.520 --> 00:30:22.240\ntime to do that. And so we figured that out. And we actually have three plants\n\n554\n00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:22.960\nnow that,\n\n555\n00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.440\nthat make those sandwiches and freeze them immediately after being assembled.\n\n556\n00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.730\nWell, all my golfing buddies at the halfway house, they really thank you for\n\n557\n00:30:30.730 --> 00:30:30.960\nthat.\n\n558\n00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:37.020\nSame. You know, you know, you've said one of your priorities is modernizing\n\n559\n00:30:37.020 --> 00:30:38.400\nbrands without losing\n\n560\n00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:43.300\ntheir soul. I love that without losing their soul. How do you define what the\n\n561\n00:30:43.300 --> 00:30:44.640\nsoul of a brand is?\n\n562\n00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:49.840\nYou know, do you spend time articulating that? Or is you the, the, the head of\n\n563\n00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:50.000\nthe\n\n564\n00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.080\ncompany or you just had no one in your gut? I think it depends on the brand.\n\n565\n00:30:54.080 --> 00:30:58.990\nAnd I'll give you an example. Cafe Bustello is our fastest growing coffee brand\n\n566\n00:30:58.990 --> 00:30:59.280\n.\n\n567\n00:30:59.280 --> 00:31:06.880\nIt's going to be a half a billion dollars this year in sales. And it is a true,\n\n568\n00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:07.920\nit has a true\n\n569\n00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:14.400\nLatino heritage. It was born in New York in the Puerto Rican and Hispanic\n\n570\n00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:16.720\ncommunity. It grew up\n\n571\n00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:23.020\nin Miami within the Cuban community. And it has been embraced by many Latino\n\n572\n00:31:23.020 --> 00:31:26.640\ncommunities. And as we,\n\n573\n00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:31.280\nwe acquired that brand. And since then, we've really focused on that brand. And\n\n574\n00:31:31.280 --> 00:31:32.240\nthe soul of that\n\n575\n00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:40.400\nbrand is that, is that Latin culture. It is chats over sweet espresso drinks.\n\n576\n00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:42.320\nIt is, it is a truly\n\n577\n00:31:42.320 --> 00:31:47.510\nbilingual brand. So all of them, all of the marketing communications go out in\n\n578\n00:31:47.510 --> 00:31:49.680\nboth English and Spanish.\n\n579\n00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:55.600\nAnd that authenticity, that authentic Latin roots and its commitment to the\n\n580\n00:31:55.600 --> 00:31:57.520\narts, we've done a lot of\n\n581\n00:31:57.520 --> 00:32:04.720\nwork in with supporting Latin artists, whether that's music or visual artists.\n\n582\n00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:05.520\nWe have done\n\n583\n00:32:05.520 --> 00:32:10.360\nthings specifically in the home markets of New York and Miami that support the\n\n584\n00:32:10.360 --> 00:32:11.360\nbrand. And that\n\n585\n00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:17.340\nauthentic heritage, that authentic Latin heritage has actually supported the\n\n586\n00:32:17.340 --> 00:32:17.840\ngrowth\n\n587\n00:32:17.840 --> 00:32:23.760\nacross the country and largely with non-Hispanic millennials and Gen Z's who\n\n588\n00:32:23.760 --> 00:32:24.480\nare the ones who are\n\n589\n00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.040\ntruly embracing that brand. And it's that, it's that authentic Latin soul that\n\n590\n00:32:30.040 --> 00:32:31.680\npeople gravitate to.\n\n591\n00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:36.720\nSo that one seems like that, that would be an easier one that they really get\n\n592\n00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.600\nat the soul of\n\n593\n00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:44.320\nwhat it is because it just flows out of the the origin. But take, take Folgers.\n\n594\n00:32:44.320 --> 00:32:46.080\nWhat's the soul of\n\n595\n00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:51.680\nFolgers? The soul of Folgers was always that originally was all that waking up,\n\n596\n00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:52.640\nthat morning,\n\n597\n00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.120\nthe aroma of coffee.\n\n598\n00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.600\nOur new marketing campaign specifically hits on that. I referenced it earlier\n\n599\n00:33:07.600 --> 00:33:08.560\nin terms of using\n\n600\n00:33:08.560 --> 00:33:14.130\nall of these popular songs that are referencing waking up and it eventually\n\n601\n00:33:14.130 --> 00:33:15.280\nties back to the\n\n602\n00:33:15.280 --> 00:33:20.200\nslogan of the best part of waking up as Folgers in your cup. And so the soul of\n\n603\n00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:21.280\nFolgers is the\n\n604\n00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:28.380\nmorning ritual, right? And it's not necessarily the old images we have of\n\n605\n00:33:28.380 --> 00:33:30.160\nadvertising from\n\n606\n00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:37.210\nthe 80s. Now it's, we all have different morning routines. Sometimes some of us\n\n607\n00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:37.360\nare\n\n608\n00:33:37.360 --> 00:33:41.940\nracing out the door. Some of us are going to walk the dog. Some of us are\n\n609\n00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.600\ntaking the kids to school,\n\n610\n00:33:43.600 --> 00:33:48.560\nwhatever it may be, trying to participate with the brand in those different\n\n611\n00:33:48.560 --> 00:33:50.000\nmoments is what makes\n\n612\n00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.360\nit still relevant. Because you understand the brand so well, you can say\n\n613\n00:33:53.360 --> 00:33:53.920\nconsistent,\n\n614\n00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:59.360\nyou can be true to who you really, really are. Do you have any brands where you\n\n615\n00:33:59.360 --> 00:33:59.920\nhaven't been able\n\n616\n00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:04.900\nto really define the soul and, and by not defining what the soul you haven't\n\n617\n00:34:04.900 --> 00:34:06.160\nhad the success you'd\n\n618\n00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:11.680\nlike it to have? Well, we talked a little bit about Jeff and how that changed,\n\n619\n00:34:11.680 --> 00:34:12.880\nright? From choosing\n\n620\n00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:16.890\nmoms to that, Jeff, and good. I think that was a good example where, where\n\n621\n00:34:16.890 --> 00:34:17.840\npeanut butter is so\n\n622\n00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:24.820\ningrained in our, in our culture as Americans. And, but we had to shift the\n\n623\n00:34:24.820 --> 00:34:26.320\ntone of, of that\n\n624\n00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:31.530\nadvertising. I think if you look at our pet brands, those have also shifted a\n\n625\n00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:32.800\nlittle bit. If you\n\n626\n00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.060\nthink about milk bone, right? Milk bone is all about, you know, treating your\n\n627\n00:34:37.060 --> 00:34:38.000\ndog. And\n\n628\n00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:43.600\nas pet parents, we tend, you know, our pets are, are part of the family. And so\n\n629\n00:34:43.600 --> 00:34:46.160\nthe milk bone has\n\n630\n00:34:46.160 --> 00:34:52.700\nshifted to an idea of more dog. In other words, we need more dogs in our lives\n\n631\n00:34:52.700 --> 00:34:54.560\nbecause they're loyal,\n\n632\n00:34:54.560 --> 00:34:59.550\nthey love us unconditionally, and they always want to be around us. And so why\n\n633\n00:34:59.550 --> 00:35:00.640\nwouldn't we want\n\n634\n00:35:00.640 --> 00:35:06.830\nmore dog? And so the soul of that brand has become this notion of we need more\n\n635\n00:35:06.830 --> 00:35:08.080\ndogs in our lives\n\n636\n00:35:08.080 --> 00:35:12.960\nbecause they make us happy there. They support our psyche. I love how you think\n\n637\n00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:13.680\nabout brands. And\n\n638\n00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:18.480\nI'm thinking of, you know, Smucker and what you do with your company and your\n\n639\n00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.040\nbrands. And I'm\n\n640\n00:35:19.040 --> 00:35:24.050\nthinking of like General Mills, okay, we're proctor and gamble, big package\n\n641\n00:35:24.050 --> 00:35:26.000\ngoods, mega companies.\n\n642\n00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:30.720\nYou seem to have a little bit more fun with your brands. I mean, how do you\n\n643\n00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:31.040\nthink your\n\n644\n00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:36.640\nmarketing stacks up to the big guys? You know, those are amazing companies. And\n\n645\n00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:39.680\nI think what we\n\n646\n00:35:39.680 --> 00:35:45.050\nknow, and you know this because you've worked in this industry, our brands are\n\n647\n00:35:45.050 --> 00:35:46.000\neverywhere,\n\n648\n00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:51.040\nright? They're ubiquitous. They're in every store. And and what that means in\n\n649\n00:35:51.040 --> 00:35:52.400\nour industry is that\n\n650\n00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:58.580\nto win is kind of a game of inches. You have to do a few things incrementally\n\n651\n00:35:58.580 --> 00:35:59.200\nbetter\n\n652\n00:35:59.200 --> 00:36:04.380\nthan your than your competition. And one of the reasons why we have spent so\n\n653\n00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:06.160\nmuch time investing\n\n654\n00:36:06.160 --> 00:36:13.140\nin our marketing model, in our in our marketing partnership with publicists,\n\n655\n00:36:13.140 --> 00:36:13.520\nwhich is the\n\n656\n00:36:13.520 --> 00:36:21.550\nfirm that we work with, is because we have to we have to win. And so to really\n\n657\n00:36:21.550 --> 00:36:23.040\nthink strategically\n\n658\n00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:28.360\nabout what these brands need to consumers and be bold. Again, coming back to\n\n659\n00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:29.520\nthis idea of being\n\n660\n00:36:29.520 --> 00:36:35.840\nbold with our creative execution that is addressing that consumer insight is\n\n661\n00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:37.040\nhow we will continue to\n\n662\n00:36:37.040 --> 00:36:43.210\nwin. So marketing is key and continuing to invest in that capability is core to\n\n663\n00:36:43.210 --> 00:36:44.000\nbeing able to win\n\n664\n00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:48.580\nin this very competitive industry. And Mark, you got to be great at getting\n\n665\n00:36:48.580 --> 00:36:49.520\nconsumer insights.\n\n666\n00:36:49.520 --> 00:36:53.200\nI mean, how do you get the insight? What do you do as a leader to make sure\n\n667\n00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:55.280\nthat you're grounded in\n\n668\n00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.880\nthe consumer? And and you have that insight that taps into how people use your\n\n669\n00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:00.880\nproducts and behave\n\n670\n00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:06.380\nwith your products. I think being in business for almost 130 years and having\n\n671\n00:37:06.380 --> 00:37:07.520\nhad to adapt over\n\n672\n00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:11.740\nthat time frame to different consumer insights. I mean, for 100 years, we were\n\n673\n00:37:11.740 --> 00:37:12.720\njust essentially\n\n674\n00:37:12.720 --> 00:37:18.300\na jam and jelly company. And we reinvented the category. We and we came up with\n\n675\n00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:19.440\nevery imaginable\n\n676\n00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:24.620\nflavor, every caloric or sugar content, different types of sweeteners. And I\n\n677\n00:37:24.620 --> 00:37:25.840\nthink that that was\n\n678\n00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:31.170\nthe, you know, the birthplace of listening to the consumer. And I think making\n\n679\n00:37:31.170 --> 00:37:32.080\nsure that we\n\n680\n00:37:32.080 --> 00:37:37.400\ndo the right kind of research, we listen to the consumer, we take them\n\n681\n00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:38.960\nseriously, but we also\n\n682\n00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:45.650\ndon't go so deep that we get bogged down in in too many insights. And then when\n\n683\n00:37:45.650 --> 00:37:46.880\nwe come back to\n\n684\n00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:53.360\nthe marketing work itself, we test it. We make sure that it, it is not crossing\n\n685\n00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:54.160\ntoo many cultural\n\n686\n00:37:54.160 --> 00:37:57.140\nbarriers, but it's resonating with the, with the core consumer or the new\n\n687\n00:37:57.140 --> 00:37:58.240\nconsumer we're trying to\n\n688\n00:37:58.240 --> 00:38:02.820\nreach. I mean, I think it's just having the right discipline. So, you know,\n\n689\n00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.920\nearlier on, you know,\n\n690\n00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.920\nand you've clearly established this conversation that a you love brands, but\n\n691\n00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:08.880\nyou also said you love\n\n692\n00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:12.410\nworking with people, you love the people side of the business. You know, you\n\n693\n00:38:12.410 --> 00:38:13.360\nknow, when you have a\n\n694\n00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:19.540\nbig change initiative, you got to get done to make sure that smokers keeps its\n\n695\n00:38:19.540 --> 00:38:20.960\nedge and you win.\n\n696\n00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.720\nYou know, what's the process you use? I mean, how do you, how do you think\n\n697\n00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:25.920\nabout leading people?\n\n698\n00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:31.290\nWhat's it take? First of all, you have to set a clear vision, right? It has to\n\n699\n00:38:31.290 --> 00:38:32.240\nbe very clear\n\n700\n00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:36.260\nwhat, what we're trying to accomplish. And then continuing to cultivate the\n\n701\n00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:37.200\nculture in order to\n\n702\n00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:43.020\ndeliver that. So, I, you know, I mentioned authenticity. I think we have to\n\n703\n00:38:43.020 --> 00:38:43.760\nremember\n\n704\n00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:50.740\nthat our people are human beings and it doesn't matter where you go in the\n\n705\n00:38:50.740 --> 00:38:52.240\nworld. Every single one\n\n706\n00:38:52.240 --> 00:38:57.440\nof us as human beings, we want the same things. We want a roof over our head.\n\n707\n00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:58.400\nWe want our children\n\n708\n00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:02.980\nto be safe. We want a good education to put food on the table. I mean, these\n\n709\n00:39:02.980 --> 00:39:04.320\nare basic human needs.\n\n710\n00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:11.040\nAnd if we can remember that each of us ultimately are striving for the same\n\n711\n00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:12.080\nthings, I think that\n\n712\n00:39:12.080 --> 00:39:18.320\nallows us to be more to relate to our people better and to not lose sight of\n\n713\n00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.560\nthese are all people.\n\n714\n00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:24.460\nEven when we're making those difficult decisions, we have to treat them with\n\n715\n00:39:24.460 --> 00:39:25.600\nrespect. We have to\n\n716\n00:39:25.600 --> 00:39:30.180\nmake sure we're crystal clear in what the vision that we're marching toward is\n\n717\n00:39:30.180 --> 00:39:31.280\nand help people\n\n718\n00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:36.960\nunderstand what steps we need to take as a team to drive to that outcome.\n\n719\n00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:40.640\nYou know, Mark, you've made a lot of bets on acquisitions,\n\n720\n00:39:40.640 --> 00:39:45.540\ndivesting great brands. And, you know, you've made a lot of big strategic\n\n721\n00:39:45.540 --> 00:39:46.400\ndecisions.\n\n722\n00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:50.960\nWhat's the bet you've made as CEO that still makes you a little bit nervous?\n\n723\n00:39:53.920 --> 00:40:01.170\nOne of the areas in pet that made me nervous is that we increased our scale in\n\n724\n00:40:01.170 --> 00:40:01.920\ndog food.\n\n725\n00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:09.050\nAnd in hindsight, that was not the right decision because when we acquired the\n\n726\n00:40:09.050 --> 00:40:10.000\npet business,\n\n727\n00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:15.430\nwe acquired it primarily because milk phone was a crown jewel. It was a number\n\n728\n00:40:15.430 --> 00:40:16.800\none brand in dog\n\n729\n00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:22.970\nsnacks. And we knew that Meow Mix was a number one brand in dry cat food. And\n\n730\n00:40:22.970 --> 00:40:24.000\nwe knew from the\n\n731\n00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.980\nget-go that we could win with those two brands. And we thought that it gave us\n\n732\n00:40:30.980 --> 00:40:32.080\na right to win\n\n733\n00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:36.980\nin dog food, which is a much bigger category. You're going up against huge\n\n734\n00:40:36.980 --> 00:40:38.560\ncompetitors like Nestle\n\n735\n00:40:38.560 --> 00:40:45.370\nand Mars. And we increased our scale. We bought a brand in that category, which\n\n736\n00:40:45.370 --> 00:40:46.080\nultimately\n\n737\n00:40:46.080 --> 00:40:50.880\ndidn't work. And there were some things, quite frankly, that we didn't see in\n\n738\n00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:51.680\nthe marketplace,\n\n739\n00:40:51.680 --> 00:40:59.990\nthat we could have never anticipated. But what it taught us is that we had to,\n\n740\n00:40:59.990 --> 00:41:00.800\nwe have to stick\n\n741\n00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:06.320\nto our strategy, remember why we got in the pet business from the beginning,\n\n742\n00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:07.440\nwhich was dog snacks\n\n743\n00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.250\nand cat food, and ultimately caused us to change our strategy and exit dog food\n\n744\n00:41:12.250 --> 00:41:13.280\naltogether.\n\n745\n00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:22.510\nAnd then it essentially, we basically doubled our margins in the two businesses\n\n746\n00:41:22.510 --> 00:41:23.600\nthat we kept,\n\n747\n00:41:23.600 --> 00:41:29.840\nand we started to drive growth. And so in that case, it was about focus. And it\n\n748\n00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:31.440\nwas remembering\n\n749\n00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:37.280\nwhat our focus was and why we got into that business in the first place. And so\n\n750\n00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:38.720\nhaving made that\n\n751\n00:41:38.720 --> 00:41:45.240\ndecision and then course correcting was the right thing to do. Makes a lot of\n\n752\n00:41:45.240 --> 00:41:46.640\nsense. And\n\n753\n00:41:46.640 --> 00:41:50.650\nthis has been so much fun, Mark. And I want to have some more with my lightning\n\n754\n00:41:50.650 --> 00:41:51.440\nround of questions.\n\n755\n00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:54.730\nSo are you ready for this? All right, let's go. The three words that best\n\n756\n00:41:54.730 --> 00:41:55.440\ndescribe you.\n\n757\n00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:00.020\nWell, independent, authentic, creative. If you could be one person for a day\n\n758\n00:42:00.020 --> 00:42:00.720\nbeside yourself,\n\n759\n00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:04.000\nwho would it be? Billy Joe Armstrong, the lead singer of Green Day.\n\n760\n00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.800\nWhat's your biggest pet pee? Complacency. Who would play you in a movie?\n\n761\n00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:14.160\nI get Matthew McConaughey, which I think is a compliment.\n\n762\n00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:16.720\nAll right. What's your go-to smucker snack?\n\n763\n00:42:16.720 --> 00:42:21.900\nUncrustables. What's something you've been curious about lately that has\n\n764\n00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:22.400\nabsolutely\n\n765\n00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:30.320\nnothing to do with work? I'm fascinated by outer space and the physics of the\n\n766\n00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.320\nuniverse. What's the one thing that you do just for you?\n\n767\n00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.400\nListen to music and play music in my little music studio at home.\n\n768\n00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:42.240\nYour instrument? Keyboards and saxophone.\n\n769\n00:42:42.240 --> 00:42:46.320\nBesides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?\n\n770\n00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:51.280\nI love my dog. If I listen to your playlist, what would I hear?\n\n771\n00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.280\nA lot of house music and reggae. What's something about you few people would\n\n772\n00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:55.840\nknow?\n\n773\n00:42:55.840 --> 00:43:02.240\nOh man, people know me pretty well. What would they not know?\n\n774\n00:43:02.240 --> 00:43:05.520\nI like to be alone. Are you one of those extroverts that says that you're\n\n775\n00:43:05.520 --> 00:43:06.800\nreally an introvert?\n\n776\n00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:11.200\nMy Myers Briggs says I'm on the fence between an introvert and an extrovert.\n\n777\n00:43:11.200 --> 00:43:15.760\nThat's why you got the right brain, the left brain work, and there you go. I\n\n778\n00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:15.840\nlove it.\n\n779\n00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:20.080\nAll right. What's one of your daily rituals? Something that you never miss?\n\n780\n00:43:20.080 --> 00:43:25.040\nHonestly, there's a couple of things. I try to exercise in the morning,\n\n781\n00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:33.360\nbut I also usually listen to music on the way to work. I usually listen to news\n\n782\n00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:34.560\nor NPR maybe on\n\n783\n00:43:34.560 --> 00:43:40.000\nthe way home, but I usually don't start my day listening to the news. I might\n\n784\n00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:40.720\nlook at it on my\n\n785\n00:43:40.720 --> 00:43:45.300\nphone at first, catch up on a little bit of TV, but when I get in the car and I\n\n786\n00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:46.080\nhave a 40-minute\n\n787\n00:43:46.080 --> 00:43:51.040\ndrive to work, my preparation is music. I can't believe it. Take you 40 minutes\n\n788\n00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.760\nto get anywhere\n\n789\n00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:57.440\nin Akron. Yeah, it's about 40 minutes from Warville, but I grew up here in this\n\n790\n00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:58.320\nlittle tiny town.\n\n791\n00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:02.320\nI went to high school here and everything. So you understand your soul just\n\n792\n00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:03.040\nlike you understand\n\n793\n00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:07.180\nthe soul of your brands? I think so. There you go. You're out of the lightning\n\n794\n00:44:07.180 --> 00:44:08.000\nround. Good job,\n\n795\n00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:13.180\nMark. Now, how do you think about leadership at home? I think one of the most\n\n796\n00:44:13.180 --> 00:44:14.320\nimportant things in\n\n797\n00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:19.940\nthis job is to practice switching it off at home. I think that's what\n\n798\n00:44:19.940 --> 00:44:21.680\nleadership is at home.\n\n799\n00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:30.310\nIt's understanding how to switch this work off at home and be present. And it's\n\n800\n00:44:30.310 --> 00:44:31.680\nnot always possible,\n\n801\n00:44:31.680 --> 00:44:37.430\nand it's hard for us when we have jobs where we're on call 24/7, but being able\n\n802\n00:44:37.430 --> 00:44:38.560\nto switch gears\n\n803\n00:44:38.560 --> 00:44:42.880\nfrom the professional and to spend time with my wife and say, \"Hey, honey, how\n\n804\n00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:43.760\nwas your day?\"\n\n805\n00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:49.080\nAnd actually ask those questions and actually be curious about it. I think that\n\n806\n00:44:49.080 --> 00:44:49.840\n's one of the most\n\n807\n00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:53.770\nimportant things that we can do as leaders to be present for our families. And\n\n808\n00:44:53.770 --> 00:44:54.480\npresent is a big\n\n809\n00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:59.510\nword these days. I mean, people are really talking about getting present. The\n\n810\n00:44:59.510 --> 00:45:00.960\nspirituality of being\n\n811\n00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:05.540\npresent, not looking after the future, not looking back. How do you stay\n\n812\n00:45:05.540 --> 00:45:07.520\npresent? Do you have a trick\n\n813\n00:45:07.520 --> 00:45:13.590\nup your sleeve that helps you do it? Practice makes perfect. I've done in my\n\n814\n00:45:13.590 --> 00:45:15.520\nlife, I've done a lot of yoga.\n\n815\n00:45:15.520 --> 00:45:22.520\nI meditate when I can, and I think that helps meditation calms the mind, and it\n\n816\n00:45:22.520 --> 00:45:22.960\nhelps us\n\n817\n00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:29.520\nlearn how to be present and learn how to switch off the craziness that our mind\n\n818\n00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:30.400\nwants to tell us\n\n819\n00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:35.460\nis going on. That's great, great stuff. And last question here, what's one\n\n820\n00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:36.560\npiece of advice you'd\n\n821\n00:45:36.560 --> 00:45:42.350\ngive to anyone who wants to be a better leader? I always say that I think\n\n822\n00:45:42.350 --> 00:45:44.320\npeople need to show\n\n823\n00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:51.300\ntheir true selves and be vulnerable. And I have seen in my career times when I\n\n824\n00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.240\nhave encouraged\n\n825\n00:45:52.240 --> 00:45:58.690\nother leaders to do just that and let their guard down, they become more human\n\n826\n00:45:58.690 --> 00:46:00.240\nto their teams,\n\n827\n00:46:00.240 --> 00:46:06.710\nand they become better leaders. And I can say from my own experience, the best\n\n828\n00:46:06.710 --> 00:46:08.640\nleaders are the ones\n\n829\n00:46:08.640 --> 00:46:14.160\nthat are willing to take feedback and change. And I truly believe I've had lots\n\n830\n00:46:14.160 --> 00:46:15.120\nof feedback over\n\n831\n00:46:15.120 --> 00:46:20.970\nthe years from mentors, from 360 assessments. And I always try to take it\n\n832\n00:46:20.970 --> 00:46:22.880\nseriously. And we're\n\n833\n00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:27.510\nnever done, right? We're never the best version of ourselves. And I hope that\n\n834\n00:46:27.510 --> 00:46:28.880\ntomorrow I'm a better\n\n835\n00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:32.640\nversion of myself than I am today. Well, Mark, I have to tell you, I have\n\n836\n00:46:32.640 --> 00:46:34.240\nenjoyed this conversation\n\n837\n00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:39.310\nimmensely. You are authentic. You know, you are creative, you're independent.\n\n838\n00:46:39.310 --> 00:46:40.240\nAnd I can tell you\n\n839\n00:46:40.240 --> 00:46:44.080\nlove your job, you have fun. And it's a grind. I know there are a lot of times\n\n840\n00:46:44.080 --> 00:46:44.720\nthat every day is\n\n841\n00:46:44.720 --> 00:46:48.530\nnot perfect. It's a grind. But I think when you, when you walk down the halls\n\n842\n00:46:48.530 --> 00:46:49.440\nand you walk into\n\n843\n00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.220\nmeeting people know that it's going to be lively for sure. You have to have fun\n\n844\n00:46:53.220 --> 00:46:54.560\n. And it can be a\n\n845\n00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:58.050\ngrind. But if we're not, if we're not enjoying it, then it's not worth doing,\n\n846\n00:46:58.050 --> 00:47:00.000\nright? Right, right.\n\n847\n00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:03.570\nAnd thank you. I've enjoyed this a lot. Thank you, David. I really appreciate\n\n848\n00:47:03.570 --> 00:47:03.920\nit.\n\n849\n00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:14.480\nDavid, before listening to this conversation, I had no idea that Mark Smucker\n\n850\n00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:16.000\nis a genius behind\n\n851\n00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:20.560\nthe craze that is on crustables. There about to be a billion dollar brand,\n\n852\n00:47:20.560 --> 00:47:26.080\nthose tiny little sandwiches. It's funny. It's this little, little town in Ohio\n\n853\n00:47:26.080 --> 00:47:26.080\n,\n\n854\n00:47:26.080 --> 00:47:29.840\nAkron, Ohio, or just outside of Akron, Ohio has created one of the greatest\n\n855\n00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:30.480\npackaged goods\n\n856\n00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:34.770\ncompanies in the world with his leadership and his family's leadership. And it\n\n857\n00:47:34.770 --> 00:47:36.480\n's really amazing\n\n858\n00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:41.400\nto see how they win, which is, I think, breaking through the clutter, taking on\n\n859\n00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:42.160\nthe big guys,\n\n860\n00:47:42.160 --> 00:47:46.880\nbut do it in a way that really captures the imagination of their consumers. And\n\n861\n00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.760\nthey're\n\n862\n00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:52.720\nnot afraid to be bold for that's for sure. David, I loved hearing Mark's take\n\n863\n00:47:52.720 --> 00:47:53.920\non all of the topics\n\n864\n00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.880\nthat you all discussed because he is so creative. And yet he's also very\n\n865\n00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:58.160\nanalytical at the same time.\n\n866\n00:47:58.160 --> 00:48:01.520\nAnd I want to break down some of those concepts and get your take on them so\n\n867\n00:48:01.520 --> 00:48:02.720\nthat our listeners\n\n868\n00:48:02.720 --> 00:48:05.990\nhave something really tangible from this conversation that they can apply right\n\n869\n00:48:05.990 --> 00:48:06.400\naway.\n\n870\n00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:10.980\nThe first concept that David, I want to debrief with you is this idea of bold\n\n871\n00:48:10.980 --> 00:48:11.760\ncreative and Mark's\n\n872\n00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.980\na creative guy. And I loved hearing him share stories of some of the creative\n\n873\n00:48:15.980 --> 00:48:16.800\nthat worked for\n\n874\n00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:22.750\ntheir family of brands. And he is not afraid to be bold with creative like that\n\n875\n00:48:22.750 --> 00:48:23.680\n. The thing is,\n\n876\n00:48:23.680 --> 00:48:28.260\nthough, a lot of people like to play it safe because the thought of being bold\n\n877\n00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:29.600\nis just too risky for\n\n878\n00:48:29.600 --> 00:48:34.180\nthem. So how do you get internal buy-in for bold creative like that and get\n\n879\n00:48:34.180 --> 00:48:35.120\neveryone on the same\n\n880\n00:48:35.120 --> 00:48:39.700\npage? First of all, I think it's part of what the culture of your company is,\n\n881\n00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:40.880\nwhich is to stand out\n\n882\n00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:45.920\nto be different and to break through the clutter. But it's not enough just to\n\n883\n00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.120\nbe bold for bold\n\n884\n00:48:47.120 --> 00:48:51.670\nand the sake. It has to be rooted in consumer behavior and how your consumers\n\n885\n00:48:51.670 --> 00:48:52.560\nsee your brand.\n\n886\n00:48:52.560 --> 00:48:57.140\nAnd one great example of this is Jiff, in its earlier days, had a great\n\n887\n00:48:57.140 --> 00:48:57.840\npositioning that\n\n888\n00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.680\neverybody really admired, which was choosy, mothers choose Jiff, and it really\n\n889\n00:49:01.680 --> 00:49:02.720\npositioned them as the\n\n890\n00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:07.540\npeanut butter for moms who cared more about their family and wanted to give\n\n891\n00:49:07.540 --> 00:49:08.720\nthem the best. And it\n\n892\n00:49:08.720 --> 00:49:13.460\nreally worked. But as time evolved, it became a little bit outdated. And then\n\n893\n00:49:13.460 --> 00:49:14.320\nhe evolved to,\n\n894\n00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:21.040\nthat's Jiff and good. I mean, that's pretty out there. I don't know if I had\n\n895\n00:49:21.040 --> 00:49:22.160\nthe courage to go that\n\n896\n00:49:22.160 --> 00:49:27.150\nway, because it's pretty close to something else. But they did it, and it's\n\n897\n00:49:27.150 --> 00:49:28.480\nbeen very successful,\n\n898\n00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:33.850\nand it's helped them really drive the business. But I think what you have to do\n\n899\n00:49:33.850 --> 00:49:35.120\nwith your team\n\n900\n00:49:35.120 --> 00:49:42.170\nand the entire organization is let people know what you are, what you stand for\n\n901\n00:49:42.170 --> 00:49:43.840\n, and how you've\n\n902\n00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:48.830\nwon. And I think that's where they've made the conscious decision that they\n\n903\n00:49:48.830 --> 00:49:50.000\nwant to be out front\n\n904\n00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:54.580\nin terms of where culture is. They want to talk to consumer in terms of where\n\n905\n00:49:54.580 --> 00:49:55.360\nculture is and\n\n906\n00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:59.360\nwhere it's going. And they want to be leaders. They don't want to be followers.\n\n907\n00:49:59.360 --> 00:49:59.920\nAnd they're not\n\n908\n00:49:59.920 --> 00:50:05.520\nafraid to take on the big guys, like Procter and Gamble and General Mills, with\n\n909\n00:50:05.520 --> 00:50:06.080\nless money,\n\n910\n00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:10.700\nbecause what they do is they're very smart about how they spend theirs, making\n\n911\n00:50:10.700 --> 00:50:11.600\nsure that they really\n\n912\n00:50:11.600 --> 00:50:15.440\nstand for something that's unique and different in the marketplace. And just as\n\n913\n00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:16.240\nimportantly,\n\n914\n00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:19.600\nnot just different, not just breaking through the clutter, but being relevant\n\n915\n00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:20.640\nto their consumers in\n\n916\n00:50:20.640 --> 00:50:26.540\nterms of really giving them the products that they're looking for and talking\n\n917\n00:50:26.540 --> 00:50:27.360\nto them in a way\n\n918\n00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:31.040\nthat they want to be talked to. It's such a good distinction, not being bold\n\n919\n00:50:31.040 --> 00:50:31.920\nfor boldness sake,\n\n920\n00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:36.880\nbut being bold in a way that is rooted in consumer behavior and attention. That\n\n921\n00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:38.480\ndistinction is so\n\n922\n00:50:38.480 --> 00:50:42.350\nhelpful, because you do see some brands who are just going for it just to go\n\n923\n00:50:42.350 --> 00:50:43.360\nfor it. And it doesn't\n\n924\n00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:47.440\nreally make sense, and it doesn't land, and it's almost self-serving in a way.\n\n925\n00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:53.280\nYeah. How many commercials cool have you seen? And ads that you've seen that\n\n926\n00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:53.760\nyou don't even\n\n927\n00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:58.960\nremember is who it's for that. Not next day. I'm talking five minutes from now.\n\n928\n00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:03.180\nMany of the Super Bowl commercials where you're spending millions and millions\n\n929\n00:51:03.180 --> 00:51:03.680\nof dollars on,\n\n930\n00:51:03.680 --> 00:51:07.900\nyou don't even remember them. First, there are some people who really break\n\n931\n00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:08.240\nthrough the clutter,\n\n932\n00:51:08.240 --> 00:51:11.120\nyou remember them forever. I remember Master Lock, which is one of my favorite\n\n933\n00:51:11.120 --> 00:51:12.880\ncommercials ever,\n\n934\n00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:17.520\nand they still run it. They take that Master Lock, they show the Master Lock,\n\n935\n00:51:17.520 --> 00:51:18.400\nand they show\n\n936\n00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:23.360\na bullet being shot through the Master Lock, and it's indestructible. And that\n\n937\n00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:23.760\nwas the only\n\n938\n00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:28.660\nad they ran all year. But it broke through the clutter. Established Master Lock\n\n939\n00:51:28.660 --> 00:51:29.520\nis the most secure\n\n940\n00:51:29.520 --> 00:51:34.240\nand safe lock, and everybody remembers their names. Now, that's how that's bold\n\n941\n00:51:34.240 --> 00:51:34.640\n, creative,\n\n942\n00:51:34.640 --> 00:51:38.860\nthat's relevant. David, the final concept that I heard Mark talk a lot about in\n\n943\n00:51:38.860 --> 00:51:39.520\nyour conversation\n\n944\n00:51:40.080 --> 00:51:44.300\nis this idea of curiosity. And he talks about exploring new cultures, traveling\n\n945\n00:51:44.300 --> 00:51:45.040\n. He lived in\n\n946\n00:51:45.040 --> 00:51:49.830\nArgentina for a while. And he believes that being curious about the world makes\n\n947\n00:51:49.830 --> 00:51:51.440\nhim a better leader.\n\n948\n00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:56.000\nAnd I'm curious, David, what do you do to stay curious in a way that helps you\n\n949\n00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:59.490\ncontinue to become a better leader in person? You know, I think what he's\n\n950\n00:51:59.490 --> 00:52:00.160\nreally talking about\n\n951\n00:52:00.160 --> 00:52:04.740\nthere is just learning. And I wrote the book, \"How Leaders Learn.\" And it's all\n\n952\n00:52:04.740 --> 00:52:05.120\nabout\n\n953\n00:52:05.120 --> 00:52:10.160\nhaving curiosity in different ways, learning from your upbringing, learning\n\n954\n00:52:10.160 --> 00:52:11.200\nfrom pattern thinking,\n\n955\n00:52:11.200 --> 00:52:19.380\nlearning from by listening. But I think in the end, the best leaders, they have\n\n956\n00:52:19.380 --> 00:52:20.640\ntheir antennae.\n\n957\n00:52:20.640 --> 00:52:25.820\nThey're just always looking for new ideas. And we've had guests on before\n\n958\n00:52:25.820 --> 00:52:26.320\nsaying there's\n\n959\n00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:30.900\nnothing like having fresh eyes and seeing things like a child. And when you see\n\n960\n00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:31.920\nthings as a child,\n\n961\n00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:37.690\nyou discover new things and you see things in a light that you'd otherwise not\n\n962\n00:52:37.690 --> 00:52:38.400\nhave.\n\n963\n00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:43.120\nAnd I think leaders have to have fresh eyes. They've just got to have that\n\n964\n00:52:43.120 --> 00:52:44.240\nantennae up and\n\n965\n00:52:44.240 --> 00:52:52.560\nwant to learn and pick up new things. I think one of the things that was the\n\n966\n00:52:52.560 --> 00:52:53.280\ngreatest things\n\n967\n00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:59.200\nwe ever did at Young Brands was just do best practice visits. We would go to\n\n968\n00:52:59.200 --> 00:53:00.240\nthe best restaurants\n\n969\n00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:05.200\nthat we thought were out there and just go in and see what they were doing and\n\n970\n00:53:05.200 --> 00:53:05.440\nsay,\n\n971\n00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:10.480\n\"What could we do in our restaurants?\" We went to the best companies. If there\n\n972\n00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:12.560\nwas social media\n\n973\n00:53:12.560 --> 00:53:19.040\nthat was coming in that was really taking off and like TikTok or you pick it,\n\n974\n00:53:19.040 --> 00:53:19.840\nwe'd be the first\n\n975\n00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:23.330\nto go to that place and learn everything that we could about it because you\n\n976\n00:53:23.330 --> 00:53:25.600\nhave to have your antennae.\n\n977\n00:53:25.600 --> 00:53:30.180\nI've heard you talk a lot, David, about being an idea hunter, which is\n\n978\n00:53:30.180 --> 00:53:31.120\nbasically what you're saying,\n\n979\n00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:35.870\njust always on the hunt for new ideas or how to do things better or pattern\n\n980\n00:53:35.870 --> 00:53:36.960\nthinking. And\n\n981\n00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:40.760\nI loved your book, How Leaders Learn. I think that whole idea of active\n\n982\n00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:42.320\nlearning is just that.\n\n983\n00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.190\nYeah, it's not enough just to be an avid learner. You have to take what you\n\n984\n00:53:45.190 --> 00:53:45.440\nlearn\n\n985\n00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:52.640\nby being an avid learner and turn it into action. Bring it back to your team\n\n986\n00:53:52.640 --> 00:53:54.320\nand your company and\n\n987\n00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:58.480\ndo something from that learning that will be relevant to your own specific\n\n988\n00:53:58.480 --> 00:53:59.040\nbusiness.\n\n989\n00:53:59.040 --> 00:54:03.620\nI always say that you really don't have to be that smart if you're just smart\n\n990\n00:54:03.620 --> 00:54:04.080\nenough to learn\n\n991\n00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:07.320\nfrom others. Well, David, speaking about curiosity, what's something that you\n\n992\n00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:08.320\n're curious about right\n\n993\n00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:15.680\nnow that has nothing to do with work? I think I've always been a big believer\n\n994\n00:54:15.680 --> 00:54:16.960\nand loved the Bible,\n\n995\n00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:24.640\nbut I'm also now really trying to learn more about spirituality in different\n\n996\n00:54:24.640 --> 00:54:26.000\nways. One book\n\n997\n00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:29.200\nthat I read every day, it's funny, you asked me that, but I just looked down, I\n\n998\n00:54:29.200 --> 00:54:30.080\nsee a couple books\n\n999\n00:54:30.080 --> 00:54:36.150\nright here, a few, more than two. I got four, all my deaths right now. I read\n\n1000\n00:54:36.150 --> 00:54:37.040\nthis one every day,\n\n1001\n00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:43.100\nthe daily stoic. And I try to apply that to my life. I love the road less\n\n1002\n00:54:43.100 --> 00:54:44.480\ntraveled.\n\n1003\n00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:51.930\nThe dark side of the light changers, which is an excellent book, makes you\n\n1004\n00:54:51.930 --> 00:54:53.440\nthink. Man, search for\n\n1005\n00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.430\nmeaning. These are just four. I have my desk. I haven't read all of them, but I\n\n1006\n00:54:56.430 --> 00:54:57.280\n've read some of\n\n1007\n00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:00.840\nthem, but I picked them up, read a chapter here, chapter there. One that is not\n\n1008\n00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:01.600\non my desk right\n\n1009\n00:55:01.600 --> 00:55:05.200\nnow that I love is think like a monk. It's been around for a while, but I hadn\n\n1010\n00:55:05.200 --> 00:55:06.880\n't read it. I love\n\n1011\n00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:10.560\nit, but it has nothing to do with work, but it gets me to have higher self-\n\n1012\n00:55:10.560 --> 00:55:11.760\nawareness and\n\n1013\n00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:15.800\nhopefully be a more compassionate and kinder person. I love stuff that just\n\n1014\n00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:16.720\nmakes you think.\n\n1015\n00:55:16.720 --> 00:55:21.300\nSometimes it's just good to think with no other agenda. Yeah, self-reflection\n\n1016\n00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:21.920\nis one of the key\n\n1017\n00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:25.600\ntraits every great leader has. Well, David, that does it for our episode today.\n\n1018\n00:55:25.600 --> 00:55:26.400\nThank you so much,\n\n1019\n00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:30.450\nand thank you to Mark Smucker for a fantastic conversation. With a name like Sm\n\n1020\n00:55:30.450 --> 00:55:31.200\nucker School,\n\n1021\n00:55:31.200 --> 00:55:36.240\nit's got to be good. It's got to be good. And of course, thank you to you, our\n\n1022\n00:55:36.240 --> 00:55:36.720\nlisteners,\n\n1023\n00:55:36.720 --> 00:55:41.520\nfor tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead. We will see you next\n\n1024\n00:55:41.520 --> 00:55:42.480\nThursday.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL6591166702.mp3","dx_media_id",3682,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-05-14","itunes_episode_id",291,"youtube_id","uj53JEJwHco","2026-08-19T21:39:46.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with Mark Smucker, Chair and CEO of The J.M. 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