[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_142":-5,"_143":-5,"_144":145,"_146":147,"_148":149},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3400/hire-excellent-people-and-then-let-them-be-excellent","id",3400,"title","Hire excellent people, and then let them be excellent","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.600\nI talked to Kirby Smart about this. Delegation is so important. You know this.\n\n2\n00:00:05.600 --> 00:00:08.160\nYou have to build a\n\n3\n00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:18.050\nteam because excellence so often is a team sport. And Kirby told me that he did\n\n4\n00:00:18.050 --> 00:00:19.360\nnot become a national\n\n5\n00:00:19.360 --> 00:00:23.810\nchampionship head coach. He did not become a national champion until he\n\n6\n00:00:23.810 --> 00:00:25.280\ngenuinely learned to\n\n7\n00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:32.820\ndelegate. He hired people to do a job and he let them do that job. He told me I\n\n8\n00:00:32.820 --> 00:00:33.120\n'm\n\n9\n00:00:33.120 --> 00:00:40.090\nheld to work for. Hell, every day I'm held to work for. But until I was finally\n\n10\n00:00:40.090 --> 00:00:42.240\nwilling to hire\n\n11\n00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:49.140\nexcellence and let them be excellent, I couldn't win because a CEO has to\n\n12\n00:00:49.140 --> 00:00:51.920\ndelegate. And if you are\n\n13\n00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:59.600\nmicromanaging, that's your ego. If you delegate, it's self-confidence. They are\n\n14\n00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:00.720\nnot the same thing.\n\n15\n00:01:00.720 --> 00:01:06.200\nIn fact, they are polar opposite ends of the spectrum because if you're self-\n\n16\n00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:07.120\nconfident,\n\n17\n00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:14.210\nyou're willing to allow those people to be great too. And that took time for\n\n18\n00:01:14.210 --> 00:01:16.800\nKirby. And once he did\n\n19\n00:01:16.800 --> 00:01:20.280\nI mean, he built arguably the best program in the sport.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",3100489,"end_time",3180869,"keywords","Talent management, hiring, delegation, Kirby Smart, micromanaging, confidence","slug","hire-excellent-people-and-then-let-them-be-excellent","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","idy26nRQwlZdN00imCfEGkwnfDcuxTTKbphMfZnUPUBs","mux_asset_id","yPJFFu8o8LwWB1eauJjmtIhCtvCn6ERqWTJ6ixS9Kks","leader_id",289,"episode_id",438,"updated_at","2026-07-16T15:41:23.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3400/hire-excellent-people-and-then-let-them-be-excellent","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_106":107,"_108":109,"_110":111,"_25":112,"_113":114,"_62":115,"_58":115,"_116":117,"_70":118,"_39":119,"_120":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_121":122,"_93":123,"_44":124,"_125":126,"_127":128,"_46":-5,"_129":130,"_131":132,"_97":133,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":61,"_62":63,"_64":-5,"_65":66,"_67":68,"_69":-5,"_70":-5,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_75":76,"_35":36,"_39":77,"_41":-5,"_42":78,"_43":-5,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":86,"_87":-5,"_88":-5,"_89":90,"_91":92,"_93":-5,"_46":-5,"_94":95,"_96":-5,"_97":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Deep listening builds deep trust","deep-listening-builds-deep-trust","Instead of thinking about what you're going to say next or trying to steer the conversation, slow down and truly listen. When you do, people feel it. It creates a level of trust that makes everything else possible.","summary","

If you’re a leader, you know how important the skill of listening is. It’s the foundation for every strong relationship in your world. But in the daily hustle, it can be hard to slow down and truly be present in every meeting and conversation.

Take it from Marty Smith, one of ESPN’s most recognizable faces. In his years covering college football, golf, and NASCAR, he’s earned the trust of some of the sports world’s biggest names … simply by listening well.

In this episode, he takes us behind the scenes of those relationships, sharing what he’s learned from legends like Nick Saban, Tiger Woods, Lane Kiffin, and more—plus his own hard-earned wisdom on how to build stronger relationships by listening deeply.

This episode is for you if:

You want to build deeper connections with the people around you
You struggle with complacency (or have a team that does)
You get uncomfortable reflecting on your own failures
You just love sports

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.680\nHello, friends, and welcome to the 300th episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:06.560\nNovak.\n\n3\n00:00:06.560 --> 00:00:10.960\nToday, we have one of ESPN's most recognizable faces on the show.\n\n4\n00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:15.680\nIt's Marty Smith, and in his years covering college football, golf, and NASCAR,\n\n5\n00:00:15.680 --> 00:00:19.120\nhe's earned the trust of some of the sports world's biggest names.\n\n6\n00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:22.560\nAnd he does it because he listens well.\n\n7\n00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:25.440\nIf you're a leader, you know how important the skill of listening is.\n\n8\n00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:28.880\nIt's a foundation for every strong relationship in your world,\n\n9\n00:00:28.880 --> 00:00:33.280\nbut in the daily hustle, it can be hard to slow down and truly be present\n\n10\n00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.240\nin every meeting and in every conversation.\n\n11\n00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:40.240\nToday's episode with Marty will inspire you to listen well,\n\n12\n00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:41.680\nand I know you're going to love it.\n\n13\n00:00:41.680 --> 00:00:44.640\nEnjoy this conversation, and I will see you at the debrief.\n\n14\n00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:52.880\nMarty, we've been trying to do this for a long time.\n\n15\n00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:54.960\nI'm glad we finally get to get it done.\n\n16\n00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:59.120\nI'm going to guess my friend, it's been more than two years in the making,\n\n17\n00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:07.200\nand a whole lot of chops busting between you and me because we are definitely\n\n18\n00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:12.000\non a lot of airplanes flying around to various obligations and events.\n\n19\n00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.360\nAnd I think we've had this on the books for a long time.\n\n20\n00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:20.000\nI'm so grateful to finally get this to spend this time with you and your\n\n21\n00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:20.720\nviewership\n\n22\n00:01:20.720 --> 00:01:24.640\nand your listenership because I've learned so much from your platform.\n\n23\n00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:29.200\nI've learned so much from this show and the incredible leaders that you've had\n\n24\n00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:29.840\non it.\n\n25\n00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:33.600\nIt's a who's who in business, in sports, in music, and beyond.\n\n26\n00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:38.540\nAnd so I'm thankful and humbled just to get to spend the time with you, my\n\n27\n00:01:38.540 --> 00:01:39.040\nfriend.\n\n28\n00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:44.080\nWell, you know, Marty, you're obviously a leader in your field, but one of the\n\n29\n00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:45.040\nreal reasons why,\n\n30\n00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:50.000\none of the major reasons why we wanted to have you on this show is that you're\n\n31\n00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:50.640\nso passionate\n\n32\n00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:54.300\nabout leadership. You know, we met at the Kentucky Derby and we started talking\n\n33\n00:01:54.300 --> 00:01:55.360\nabout it. And\n\n34\n00:01:55.360 --> 00:01:59.450\nthat's when I said, \"Hey, I got to get you on the show.\" You know, why are you\n\n35\n00:01:59.450 --> 00:02:00.000\nso passionate\n\n36\n00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:06.680\nabout leadership? A lot of reasons. I think the first is how formative it was\n\n37\n00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:07.920\nin my own journey.\n\n38\n00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:15.360\nI had great leaders starting in the home with my parents and the values that\n\n39\n00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:16.640\nthey instilled within\n\n40\n00:02:16.640 --> 00:02:22.240\nme and my sister Stacy and the self-accountability that we learned from\n\n41\n00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:23.440\nwatching my parents work\n\n42\n00:02:23.440 --> 00:02:28.710\nreally hard. And then when I became an athlete as a child and then all the way\n\n43\n00:02:28.710 --> 00:02:29.600\ninto school,\n\n44\n00:02:29.600 --> 00:02:37.840\nmy coaches were imperative in my development as a person and that self-account\n\n45\n00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:38.640\nability that I\n\n46\n00:02:38.640 --> 00:02:42.740\npreach all the time to my own children now and in speaking engagements all over\n\n47\n00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:43.600\nthe country all the\n\n48\n00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:51.200\ntime. And then you fast forward to my journey at ESPN. David, this is my 21st\n\n49\n00:02:51.200 --> 00:02:51.440\nyear\n\n50\n00:02:51.440 --> 00:02:58.800\nat the company. I got a lot of gray hair, my friend. It's running away from me,\n\n51\n00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:03.970\nbut I've had such an incredible blessing to be around some of the greatest\n\n52\n00:03:03.970 --> 00:03:04.640\nleaders\n\n53\n00:03:04.640 --> 00:03:09.590\nin the world because if you look at these major college coaches, professional\n\n54\n00:03:09.590 --> 00:03:10.320\ncoaches,\n\n55\n00:03:10.320 --> 00:03:16.130\nthey really are CEOs and they really do have to learn all of these pillars of\n\n56\n00:03:16.130 --> 00:03:17.760\nleadership and instill\n\n57\n00:03:17.760 --> 00:03:22.960\nall of these pillars of leadership within their various programs in order to\n\n58\n00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:24.000\nexceed at the highest\n\n59\n00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:30.040\nlevel and succeed at the highest level, whether that's trust or communication\n\n60\n00:03:30.040 --> 00:03:31.440\nand listening or\n\n61\n00:03:31.440 --> 00:03:38.140\ncrisis management or or self-evaluation, evolution as a person, delegation, all\n\n62\n00:03:38.140 --> 00:03:39.440\nof the things that,\n\n63\n00:03:39.440 --> 00:03:45.390\nyou know, you have done so well for so long in all of your career journey. So\n\n64\n00:03:45.390 --> 00:03:48.400\nwhen I really dove\n\n65\n00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:53.960\ninto the nuance of leadership, I just became voracious about learning and inst\n\n66\n00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:54.960\nilling more and\n\n67\n00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:00.490\nmore and more of that into my own daily walk. And so I'm crazy about it. I mean\n\n68\n00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:01.120\n, truly,\n\n69\n00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.480\nyou were so passionate. I said, hey, man, I got to get this guy on because you\n\n70\n00:04:05.480 --> 00:04:06.160\ncan have so many\n\n71\n00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:10.090\ninsights in you, but before we get into this, I'm looking at you right now and\n\n72\n00:04:10.090 --> 00:04:11.120\nI'm looking at this\n\n73\n00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:16.960\nbackground. And I'm seeing the first guy that's ever been on this show doing it\n\n74\n00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:18.560\nin a laundry room.\n\n75\n00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.010\nIn front of a washing machine. What the hell's going on? Yeah, you got a\n\n76\n00:04:21.010 --> 00:04:22.000\nwashing machine back\n\n77\n00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:26.900\nthere. That's so dryer. You know, what the hell's going on? I am in, I am in\n\n78\n00:04:26.900 --> 00:04:28.480\nOcean City, New Jersey,\n\n79\n00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:35.180\nmy wife's hometown, Laney's hometown. And we own a beach house here with my\n\n80\n00:04:35.180 --> 00:04:35.920\nbrother-in-law.\n\n81\n00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.140\nHer brother. And we bought it, I don't know, 10 or 12 years ago, and it's an\n\n82\n00:04:41.140 --> 00:04:42.080\nolder home.\n\n83\n00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:47.630\nAnd he owns the top and I on the bottom. And as you and I were desperately\n\n84\n00:04:47.630 --> 00:04:49.280\ntrying to figure out\n\n85\n00:04:49.280 --> 00:04:53.430\nhow to get me here on this video call so that we could do this interview, the\n\n86\n00:04:53.430 --> 00:04:54.480\ninternet was not\n\n87\n00:04:54.480 --> 00:05:00.130\nagreeing. And so I came upstairs to my brother-in-law's office, which as you\n\n88\n00:05:00.130 --> 00:05:01.920\ncan see, before we came\n\n89\n00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:06.020\non, his underwear was hanging up there behind us. So at least we've made it\n\n90\n00:05:06.020 --> 00:05:06.720\nsomething that's\n\n91\n00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:11.620\naesthetically acceptable for all of the folks watching. But yeah, that's why I\n\n92\n00:05:11.620 --> 00:05:12.160\n'm sitting in front\n\n93\n00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.680\nof a washer and dryer. And you know, that's a classic example of a leader\n\n94\n00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:16.800\nscrambling to make\n\n95\n00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.890\nsomething happen. When you look back- Crisis management. Yeah. When you look\n\n96\n00:05:20.890 --> 00:05:22.480\nback on your career,\n\n97\n00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:26.570\nyou know, when did you have to scramble the most to really make something\n\n98\n00:05:26.570 --> 00:05:26.640\nhappen\n\n99\n00:05:26.640 --> 00:05:31.920\nthat that was critical to your own success? I've had so many people believe in\n\n100\n00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:32.880\nme throughout this\n\n101\n00:05:32.880 --> 00:05:37.950\njourney. And when people have given me opportunity, I'm somebody that if you\n\n102\n00:05:37.950 --> 00:05:39.120\ncrack a door for me,\n\n103\n00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:45.040\nI'm going to kick it down. That is not without fear, but as close to fearless\n\n104\n00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:46.880\nas I can personally\n\n105\n00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:51.840\nbe. But I'll tell you where I had a tremendous moment of insecurity that with\n\n106\n00:05:51.840 --> 00:05:52.880\nthat came great\n\n107\n00:05:52.880 --> 00:05:58.880\nclarity. And that's when we lost NASCAR at ESPN. For the first 15 years of my\n\n108\n00:05:58.880 --> 00:05:59.920\nprofessional life,\n\n109\n00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:08.160\nI covered auto racing specifically. And when ESPN lost the broadcast rights to\n\n110\n00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:09.600\nNASCAR at the end\n\n111\n00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:16.640\nof the 2014 NASCAR Cup Series season, I didn't know what I was going to do. And\n\n112\n00:06:16.640 --> 00:06:19.360\nI resigned at ESPN,\n\n113\n00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:26.030\na brand new contract starting on January 1st, 2015. So I come home from that\n\n114\n00:06:26.030 --> 00:06:26.560\nfinal race in\n\n115\n00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:33.270\nNovember of 2014 without much understanding what might be next. And I was\n\n116\n00:06:33.270 --> 00:06:35.200\nwilling to bet on myself,\n\n117\n00:06:35.200 --> 00:06:40.260\nDavid, I didn't care if it was corn hole tournaments or that chainsaw race they\n\n118\n00:06:40.260 --> 00:06:41.280\ndo out and Idaho,\n\n119\n00:06:41.280 --> 00:06:45.560\nI was going to be so damn passionate about it that you have to pay attention to\n\n120\n00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:46.000\nme.\n\n121\n00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:53.840\nWell, I get home from that final race in 2014. And Lainey and I had eight, five\n\n122\n00:06:53.840 --> 00:06:54.880\nand two at home.\n\n123\n00:06:54.880 --> 00:06:59.140\nAnd she'd been a single mom for five months. When you're chasing race cars,\n\n124\n00:06:59.140 --> 00:07:00.160\nbrother, you're gone.\n\n125\n00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:07.340\nAnd so I sat down on my couch and I opened up my phone and there was an email\n\n126\n00:07:07.340 --> 00:07:08.160\nfrom a gentleman\n\n127\n00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:12.660\nnamed Lee fitting at the time Lee was the executive producer of college game\n\n128\n00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:12.960\nday.\n\n129\n00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:18.880\nAnd he said, Marty, your passion belongs in college football. Start studying\n\n130\n00:07:18.880 --> 00:07:19.440\nright now.\n\n131\n00:07:19.440 --> 00:07:23.540\nI'm going to embed you with one of the four teams that qualify for the\n\n132\n00:07:23.540 --> 00:07:25.360\ninaugural college football\n\n133\n00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:31.410\nplayoff. And as a guy that grew up going to Virginia Tech games on Saturdays\n\n134\n00:07:31.410 --> 00:07:32.480\nwith my dad,\n\n135\n00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:37.750\nit's my favorite sport. I mean, I couldn't believe what I was reading. I knew I\n\n136\n00:07:37.750 --> 00:07:39.360\nwas going to do it.\n\n137\n00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:45.360\nIt was a difficult conversation with Lainey to try to help her understand the\n\n138\n00:07:45.360 --> 00:07:46.320\ngravity of this\n\n139\n00:07:46.320 --> 00:07:51.630\nopportunity, the magnitude of this opportunity. But when you've been a single\n\n140\n00:07:51.630 --> 00:07:52.960\nmom for five months,\n\n141\n00:07:52.960 --> 00:07:59.790\nall you want is a break. But she was kind enough and selfless enough to let me\n\n142\n00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:01.280\nchase this dream\n\n143\n00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:06.550\nbecause I told her, David, I saw that email as a treasure map. I knew if I was\n\n144\n00:08:06.550 --> 00:08:08.000\nwilling to follow\n\n145\n00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:13.200\nits direction and dig deep enough within myself, we'd find riches beyond our\n\n146\n00:08:13.200 --> 00:08:14.240\nwildest dreams.\n\n147\n00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:19.360\nAnd I ain't talking about money. I'm talking about life experience and God's\n\n148\n00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:20.640\ngood. Lainey was\n\n149\n00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:26.580\nselfless enough to let me go grind. I was embedded with Ohio State and they\n\n150\n00:08:26.580 --> 00:08:28.000\nwent on to win the national\n\n151\n00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.100\nchampionship that year. I look back on that now and I think about the\n\n152\n00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:32.800\noverwhelming,\n\n153\n00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:40.330\noverwhelming insecurity that I had because I'm this sports centric stock car\n\n154\n00:08:40.330 --> 00:08:42.000\nracing southern boy\n\n155\n00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:50.540\nwho is with the largest brand in college football. And everyone knows when you\n\n156\n00:08:50.540 --> 00:08:51.520\n're a fraud.\n\n157\n00:08:51.520 --> 00:08:57.040\nIf you try to dive into the nuance of a team and you misspeak or you miss\n\n158\n00:08:57.040 --> 00:08:57.760\nreport,\n\n159\n00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:05.830\nthey're going to consider you a fraud. And so I studied until my eyeballs were\n\n160\n00:09:05.830 --> 00:09:07.280\ncrossed and I\n\n161\n00:09:07.280 --> 00:09:14.960\nwent in there with an open mind. An urban Meyer was the head coach and he was.\n\n162\n00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:15.440\nThere's a lot of\n\n163\n00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:19.540\nfunny stories. We don't need to go down a bunch of rabbit holes, but ultimately\n\n164\n00:09:19.540 --> 00:09:20.560\nthey won the national\n\n165\n00:09:20.560 --> 00:09:26.410\nchampionship that year and I was with them for that entire time. And that was\n\n166\n00:09:26.410 --> 00:09:28.080\nnow 12 years ago.\n\n167\n00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:32.980\nAnd you built incredible relationships and you are embedded in college football\n\n168\n00:09:32.980 --> 00:09:33.120\nnow\n\n169\n00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.520\nwithout a doubt. And you know, one of the wildest stories that I've heard in a\n\n170\n00:09:37.520 --> 00:09:38.400\nlong time was\n\n171\n00:09:38.400 --> 00:09:44.710\nyou getting the exclusive interview with Lane Kiffin. You've just left your\n\n172\n00:09:44.710 --> 00:09:45.280\nlast meeting\n\n173\n00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:48.330\nwith the Ole Miss Rebels and you're getting ready to get on an airplane to\n\n174\n00:09:48.330 --> 00:09:48.720\nBaton Rouge,\n\n175\n00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:53.060\nLouisiana. What is going through your mind right now? Well, first I just watch\n\n176\n00:09:53.060 --> 00:09:53.600\nyou do something\n\n177\n00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:58.080\nunbelievable and go off road around the fire trucks to get here. So amazing job\n\n178\n00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:58.720\nby you.\n\n179\n00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.880\nTell us that story of how you you got that interview because, you know,\n\n180\n00:10:02.880 --> 00:10:06.540\neverybody, every journalist in the world wanted that interview, but you got it.\n\n181\n00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:07.120\nHow did you pull\n\n182\n00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:12.690\nthat off? To your point, it goes back to relationships. I consider myself, I'm\n\n183\n00:10:12.690 --> 00:10:14.560\nin the truth business,\n\n184\n00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:24.090\nright? And in order to be in a position that you sit across from people of\n\n185\n00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:24.560\nacclaim\n\n186\n00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:31.530\nand you're asking them to share their truth. So it's imperative that you're a\n\n187\n00:10:31.530 --> 00:10:32.640\ngreat steward\n\n188\n00:10:32.640 --> 00:10:39.520\nof that truth every time. And so I met Lane when he was on Nick Saban's staff\n\n189\n00:10:39.520 --> 00:10:40.400\nat Alabama\n\n190\n00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:46.320\nand he was the offensive coordinator. How many years ago was that? 2015ish\n\n191\n00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.240\nsomewhere around in there\n\n192\n00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:54.880\nstarted to build a relationship and that is relationships come with time.\n\n193\n00:10:54.880 --> 00:11:01.760\nIt's not always just showing up when you need something. It's showing up when\n\n194\n00:11:01.760 --> 00:11:02.480\nyou don't need\n\n195\n00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:07.610\nanything and taking the time to try to learn the person and learn that person's\n\n196\n00:11:07.610 --> 00:11:08.640\npath and journey\n\n197\n00:11:08.640 --> 00:11:14.720\nand passion, triumphs and failures, not just professionally, but as a man and\n\n198\n00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:14.960\nbe\n\n199\n00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:24.880\nintuitive about it and have a closed mouth and open ears and ultimately. So\n\n200\n00:11:24.880 --> 00:11:25.920\nLane first went to\n\n201\n00:11:25.920 --> 00:11:30.490\nFlorida Atlantic and then he gets the Ole Miss job six, seven years ago and he\n\n202\n00:11:30.490 --> 00:11:31.440\nbuilt a national\n\n203\n00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:38.540\nchampionship caliber team. So when he was being courted last season, not just\n\n204\n00:11:38.540 --> 00:11:39.840\nby LSU, but also by\n\n205\n00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:45.010\nFlorida, it was the biggest story in the sport for a while because Lane's a\n\n206\n00:11:45.010 --> 00:11:46.000\nwild card man.\n\n207\n00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:54.480\nYou never know what's really going on up here for him. And I was commissioned\n\n208\n00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:56.720\nby ESPN to go down\n\n209\n00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:04.160\nto the Egg Bowl, which is Mississippi State versus Ole Miss, a great 100 year\n\n210\n00:12:04.160 --> 00:12:04.800\nrivalry\n\n211\n00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:11.520\nand try to get the answers from Lane. Are you going to stay? Are you going to\n\n212\n00:12:11.520 --> 00:12:12.720\ngo to LSU?\n\n213\n00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:18.400\nWhat are we doing here? And speaking of being embedded, I was there throughout\n\n214\n00:12:18.400 --> 00:12:18.960\nthe entire\n\n215\n00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.700\nThanksgiving weekend the whole holiday and he was struggling to make the\n\n216\n00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:25.520\ndecision\n\n217\n00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.480\nof whether he should stay or go because he had built a national championship\n\n218\n00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:32.480\ncaliber team.\n\n219\n00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:37.110\nAnd this is a fan base. Look, look, David, here's your numbers, your numbers\n\n220\n00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:39.920\nguy. Last season was\n\n221\n00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:45.800\nthe first 11 win regular season in 132 years of Ole Miss Rebel football. So\n\n222\n00:12:45.800 --> 00:12:47.360\nthis is the greatest\n\n223\n00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:51.880\nera in the history of that program that he's built. So why the hell would you\n\n224\n00:12:51.880 --> 00:12:53.200\nleave? And above\n\n225\n00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:59.390\nthe on-field success, he'd found peace in his soul. Lane was always this way\n\n226\n00:12:59.390 --> 00:12:59.680\nward\n\n227\n00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:06.700\nsort of wanderer trying to find himself and it felt like he'd found himself in\n\n228\n00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:07.120\nOxford,\n\n229\n00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:12.400\nMississippi. He found sobriety and with sobriety came incredible emotional\n\n230\n00:13:12.400 --> 00:13:14.720\nmental clarity\n\n231\n00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:21.440\nand he'd become the best coach that he'd ever been. So why leave? Well, he had\n\n232\n00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:22.560\nconversations with\n\n233\n00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:28.410\nNick Saban and with Pete Carroll two tremendous mentors of his and they played\n\n234\n00:13:28.410 --> 00:13:29.520\nthe plus minus\n\n235\n00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:33.780\ngame and ultimately he decided that he was going to go to Baton Rouge,\n\n236\n00:13:33.780 --> 00:13:35.040\nLouisiana to coach\n\n237\n00:13:35.040 --> 00:13:43.230\nthe LSU Tigers. And the damn world started to burn. I mean, I went down there\n\n238\n00:13:43.230 --> 00:13:44.560\nfor the sole\n\n239\n00:13:44.560 --> 00:13:49.610\npurpose of getting that interview that I got with him when ultimately the\n\n240\n00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:51.600\ndecision was announced.\n\n241\n00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.520\nThis was a Sunday morning, the Sunday after Thanksgiving in 2025.\n\n242\n00:13:55.520 --> 00:14:00.420\nI'm standing in front of their football facility and they'd had a team meeting\n\n243\n00:14:00.420 --> 00:14:01.200\nand players come\n\n244\n00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.600\nout and look right at me and say, Marty, it's the Pete Golding era. And I went,\n\n245\n00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:06.800\noh Lord, okay,\n\n246\n00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:12.640\nLane's gone. Lane's for sure going to LSU. And fast forward a couple hours,\n\n247\n00:14:12.640 --> 00:14:13.680\nDavid. I'm standing\n\n248\n00:14:13.680 --> 00:14:18.720\nat the entrance of the Oxford, Mississippi airport, the FBO there. And there\n\n249\n00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.640\nare a thousand\n\n250\n00:14:20.640 --> 00:14:27.320\nold Miss fans there who are only there to tell Lane to go to hell and worse.\n\n251\n00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.360\nAnd I'm all over.\n\n252\n00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.410\nI'm calling him. I'm blowing him up. Dude, where are you? I have to get this\n\n253\n00:14:32.410 --> 00:14:32.960\ninterview.\n\n254\n00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:37.360\nI got to find you. I'll come anywhere to get it. And he said, be at the airport\n\n255\n00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.160\nat three o'clock.\n\n256\n00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:42.270\nWell, I told him I'm standing in front of the airport right now. So we can't\n\n257\n00:14:42.270 --> 00:14:43.520\nmiss you. Well,\n\n258\n00:14:43.520 --> 00:14:48.980\nwhat I didn't know is there's this clandestine entrance down the highway about\n\n259\n00:14:48.980 --> 00:14:49.440\na mile.\n\n260\n00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:57.840\nAnd we ultimately get over there. It's a whole story. I was in a massive 16\n\n261\n00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:58.240\nperson\n\n262\n00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:05.270\npeople move or van going far too fast. And I took a left at this fire station.\n\n263\n00:15:05.270 --> 00:15:06.240\nAnd there was\n\n264\n00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:10.540\na blockade there. I mean, all kinds of law enforcement vehicles and fire trucks\n\n265\n00:15:10.540 --> 00:15:12.480\nblocking the path up\n\n266\n00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:18.470\nto the tarmac. And I bombed that van off into that field and I'm dodging snow\n\n267\n00:15:18.470 --> 00:15:19.840\nplows and bush hogs\n\n268\n00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.120\nand God knows what else. And I got crew guys flying all over the van.\n\n269\n00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:29.170\nAnd I get up to the top of the hill and Lane was kind enough to wait on me to\n\n270\n00:15:29.170 --> 00:15:31.200\ndo that interview.\n\n271\n00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:39.520\nAnd so there is nowhere I go now. I spent the last four days attending a\n\n272\n00:15:39.520 --> 00:15:40.480\ncountry music festival,\n\n273\n00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:47.150\nsaw our boy Eric Church last night, by the way. Awesome. And everywhere I go,\n\n274\n00:15:47.150 --> 00:15:47.520\npeople mentioned\n\n275\n00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:51.600\nthat Lane Kiffin interview everywhere I go. Well, what is it? What's the\n\n276\n00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:52.240\nleadership lesson in that\n\n277\n00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:57.510\nstory that that most people might miss? I mean, you know, why did he say yes to\n\n278\n00:15:57.510 --> 00:15:58.560\nyou? And\n\n279\n00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:04.120\nwhat is it about you that got that interview? I don't know that I could answer\n\n280\n00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:04.880\nthat properly.\n\n281\n00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:11.840\nLane certainly could, but I do know that it goes back to what you're what we\n\n282\n00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:12.960\nwere discussing a moment\n\n283\n00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:22.320\nago. And that is the immeasurable, indelible power of time spent developing a\n\n284\n00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.320\nrelationship\n\n285\n00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:32.480\nbuilt on trust that you're going to be a great steward of truth. And that's\n\n286\n00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:34.000\napplicable no matter\n\n287\n00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:39.990\nwhat business you're in. Doesn't matter the business you're in. That's where\n\n288\n00:16:39.990 --> 00:16:40.960\neverything else\n\n289\n00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:49.600\ncomes from. Trust is the center point of any leadership role. And when I wrote\n\n290\n00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:50.880\nsideline CEO,\n\n291\n00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:55.140\nthat was one of the pillars of the book. And I asked every single one of the 20\n\n292\n00:16:55.140 --> 00:16:55.760\nchampionship\n\n293\n00:16:55.760 --> 00:17:02.460\ncoaches I interviewed for that book. And invariably, every one of them said, it\n\n294\n00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:03.760\nall starts with trust.\n\n295\n00:17:04.560 --> 00:17:08.660\nYeah, that's that's that's that's so true. It's such an important important\n\n296\n00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:10.720\nelement in any kind of\n\n297\n00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:15.300\nof leadership. But you mentioned something about Lane Kiffin that I thought was\n\n298\n00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:16.560\nvery interesting.\n\n299\n00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:22.750\nHere is this guy who went to Mississippi, built the program back up, got it to\n\n300\n00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:23.040\nits\n\n301\n00:17:23.040 --> 00:17:30.420\nincredible height. And he'd found peace within his soul. When is a leader?\n\n302\n00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:31.760\nShould you\n\n303\n00:17:33.280 --> 00:17:39.360\nmake that move? Particularly when you've got that kind of piece, what triggers\n\n304\n00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:40.080\nshould go off,\n\n305\n00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:46.750\nyou know, that would say, Hey, I need to go to LSU. I mean, what would make you\n\n306\n00:17:46.750 --> 00:17:47.680\nmake a move like\n\n307\n00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:53.670\nthat? Speaking for Lane, I think every single individual is a product of\n\n308\n00:17:53.670 --> 00:17:56.240\ncontext and repetition.\n\n309\n00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:03.680\nAnd in the context of his decision, he simply felt like the ability to recruit\n\n310\n00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:04.400\nnow, this is him,\n\n311\n00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:12.240\nnot me, all right, the ability to accrue talent and have a greater opportunity\n\n312\n00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.040\nto win a national\n\n313\n00:18:13.040 --> 00:18:21.940\nchampionship at LSU versus Ole Miss was his North Star on this decision. And I\n\n314\n00:18:21.940 --> 00:18:23.760\ncan tell you that\n\n315\n00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:30.320\nI've spoken with Coach Saban about this before. Coach Saban will tell you that\n\n316\n00:18:30.320 --> 00:18:31.280\nif he never left\n\n317\n00:18:31.280 --> 00:18:37.980\nLSU, he would probably have 10 national championships. Because at LSU, every\n\n318\n00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:39.360\nyoung man that grows up\n\n319\n00:18:39.360 --> 00:18:44.540\nin greater New Orleans. And that is the most talent. If it's not the most\n\n320\n00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:46.000\ntalent rich area in the\n\n321\n00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:52.300\ncountry, it's certainly very high up in that number, in that list. You walk out\n\n322\n00:18:52.300 --> 00:18:53.840\nthe front door to LSU\n\n323\n00:18:53.840 --> 00:19:01.280\nand trip over five stars. And so Lane felt like his greatest opportunity to\n\n324\n00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:02.960\nhave a sustainable\n\n325\n00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:09.140\nnational championship caliber team and program was in Baton Rouge versus Oxford\n\n326\n00:19:09.140 --> 00:19:11.920\n. And isn't it ironic\n\n327\n00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:16.290\nthat, as I said a moment ago, he's built the greatest era in the history of Ole\n\n328\n00:19:16.290 --> 00:19:17.280\nMiss football.\n\n329\n00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:24.160\nBut he just felt like he had a better chance at LSU. That was his. That was his\n\n330\n00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:24.880\nwhy.\n\n331\n00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.980\nAnd you got the interview with him because of the relationship you built with\n\n332\n00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:29.520\nthem and the trust\n\n333\n00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:34.880\nthat you have. And when was it, when that light bulb went off in your head, the\n\n334\n00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:35.440\nreason, you know,\n\n335\n00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.910\nthe way I'm going to distinguish myself in my career is I'm going to do it\n\n336\n00:19:39.910 --> 00:19:41.120\nthrough trust.\n\n337\n00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:47.800\nI'm going to do it through relationships. For so many years and still to a\n\n338\n00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:48.240\ndegree,\n\n339\n00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:57.410\nbeing in the news-breaking business is such a fine line to walk because you do\n\n340\n00:19:57.410 --> 00:19:58.480\nspend all of this\n\n341\n00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:05.170\ntime building these folks trust so that they'll give you information in moments\n\n342\n00:20:05.170 --> 00:20:06.000\nwhen you need that\n\n343\n00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:12.970\ninformation to do the reporting that you're required to do or tasked with doing\n\n344\n00:20:12.970 --> 00:20:13.360\n.\n\n345\n00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:18.160\nI just made a decision a long time ago that I was going to build those\n\n346\n00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.320\nrelationships in a\n\n347\n00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:29.070\ngenuine fashion because I do care about the people I'm covering. And it's a lot\n\n348\n00:20:29.070 --> 00:20:29.600\neasier.\n\n349\n00:20:29.600 --> 00:20:34.800\nAnd I'll tell you, that goes against my schooling. Every journalism class that\n\n350\n00:20:34.800 --> 00:20:35.840\nI ever took,\n\n351\n00:20:35.840 --> 00:20:41.600\nthey told me, don't get too close to the people you cover. Don't build personal\n\n352\n00:20:41.600 --> 00:20:42.320\nrelationships\n\n353\n00:20:42.320 --> 00:20:47.360\nwith the people you cover. And for me, I just never took that tact. It was just\n\n354\n00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:48.000\nnever my\n\n355\n00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:54.940\nway to do it. And everybody has their own philosophies and their own ways of\n\n356\n00:20:54.940 --> 00:20:55.520\ndoing them.\n\n357\n00:20:56.080 --> 00:21:00.880\nBut for me, this way has worked very well for me.\n\n358\n00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:06.400\nWell, how do you balance the building the relationships and versus having the\n\n359\n00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:06.960\nemotional\n\n360\n00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:14.040\ndistance it takes to drive accountability? I mean, can you make a tough\n\n361\n00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:14.720\nstatement\n\n362\n00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.040\nwhen you have the relationship with somebody?\n\n363\n00:21:17.040 --> 00:21:22.930\nYou've known me a long time. I feel like you've probably seen me make some\n\n364\n00:21:22.930 --> 00:21:23.760\ntough statements.\n\n365\n00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:31.120\nAnd there will be there will be moments where people with whom you've built\n\n366\n00:21:31.120 --> 00:21:32.240\nthose relationships\n\n367\n00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:38.160\nare over pissed off at you because you reported something or because you had an\n\n368\n00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:39.760\ninformed opinion\n\n369\n00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:44.720\nabout something. And I use the word informed opinion because I get paid to\n\n370\n00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.360\nreport. I don't get\n\n371\n00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:54.050\npaid to opine, but I'm put in positions often where folks want my opinion.\n\n372\n00:21:54.050 --> 00:21:55.600\nEvery one of those\n\n373\n00:21:55.600 --> 00:22:00.870\nopinions comes from being informed by the sources that are actually entrenched\n\n374\n00:22:00.870 --> 00:22:01.760\nin the moment.\n\n375\n00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:08.960\nAnd I take a lot of onus there. Personally, that's just my way. But I'll tell\n\n376\n00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:09.600\nyou a story\n\n377\n00:22:09.600 --> 00:22:15.360\nwhen it was very hard. One of my best friends in the world is a guy named Jimmy\n\n378\n00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:16.800\nJohnson and Jimmy\n\n379\n00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:21.090\nwon seven NASCAR championships. He's one of the greatest of all time in that\n\n380\n00:22:21.090 --> 00:22:21.920\nsport. And\n\n381\n00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:26.820\nright after he won his first championship at the highest level of the sport in\n\n382\n00:22:26.820 --> 00:22:27.840\n2006,\n\n383\n00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:34.880\nhe was playing golf with his buddies, acting like a jackass, had a couple too\n\n384\n00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:35.840\nmany cocktails,\n\n385\n00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:39.940\njumped up on top of a golf cart and was surfing on top of the golf cart, fell\n\n386\n00:22:39.940 --> 00:22:41.280\noff, broke his wrist.\n\n387\n00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.370\nWell, I found out about it. And again, this is one of my best friends even\n\n388\n00:22:45.370 --> 00:22:48.480\ntoday. And I found out\n\n389\n00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.610\nabout it. He confirmed that he broke in his wrist. And I'm like, dude, I got to\n\n390\n00:22:53.610 --> 00:22:54.640\nreport this. Now,\n\n391\n00:22:54.640 --> 00:23:02.130\nDavid, for context, I'd been at ESPN for about 25 minutes at this time. So I'm\n\n392\n00:23:02.130 --> 00:23:03.280\nstill learning what\n\n393\n00:23:03.280 --> 00:23:08.800\nthat, you know, what those lines are, at least at ESPN. And I'm like, I have to\n\n394\n00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:10.320\nreport this, man.\n\n395\n00:23:10.320 --> 00:23:13.840\nHe's like, no, you can't. I'm like, I have to. If I don't, somebody else is\n\n396\n00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:15.120\ngoing to. So I did.\n\n397\n00:23:15.120 --> 00:23:22.740\nI go report it. And he was so pissed off at me that our relationship was\n\n398\n00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:24.720\nfractured for a while.\n\n399\n00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:32.240\nBut ultimately, what ends up happening, if you're accurate and you're fair,\n\n400\n00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:33.680\nthose are the two\n\n401\n00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:38.090\ngreat pillars of journalism is fairness and accuracy. If you're right,\n\n402\n00:23:38.090 --> 00:23:40.320\nultimately, they can't be\n\n403\n00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:46.990\nmad at you forever, you were right. And he ultimately came all the way back\n\n404\n00:23:46.990 --> 00:23:48.560\naround and called me and\n\n405\n00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:51.770\nsaid, Hey, man, let's go get a beer, let's go get lunch, let's talk through it.\n\n406\n00:23:51.770 --> 00:23:53.840\nAnd that was what\n\n407\n00:23:53.840 --> 00:23:58.530\nhe said. I'm you were right. I was wrong. I shouldn't have reacted that way out\n\n408\n00:23:58.530 --> 00:24:00.480\nof frustration because\n\n409\n00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:06.670\nhe was worried that him being a human being and having a good time with his\n\n410\n00:24:06.670 --> 00:24:07.440\nbuddies during the\n\n411\n00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:18.080\noff season, by the way, would be frowned upon by sponsors, his ownership, etc.\n\n412\n00:24:18.080 --> 00:24:21.520\nAnd that was a real\n\n413\n00:24:21.520 --> 00:24:27.110\ndeep learning experience for him and for me. The power relationships is\n\n414\n00:24:27.110 --> 00:24:30.080\ncritical in leadership\n\n415\n00:24:30.080 --> 00:24:34.720\nno matter what field you're in, you know, what do you think is the biggest\n\n416\n00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:36.080\nmisconception people\n\n417\n00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:41.660\nhave about relationship building? The biggest misconception would probably be a\n\n418\n00:24:41.660 --> 00:24:43.040\nlot of and this\n\n419\n00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:49.830\nis probably universal throughout professional life, regardless of the industry.\n\n420\n00:24:49.830 --> 00:24:50.800\nYou think you\n\n421\n00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:58.640\nknow somebody, but are you taking the time as a leader to really know somebody\n\n422\n00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:00.000\nbecause we're\n\n423\n00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:05.680\nall going through something. People react the way they react, not just based on\n\n424\n00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:06.400\nthe stresses\n\n425\n00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:13.900\nof a job, but the stresses of all the inputs in their life. And I think that a\n\n426\n00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:15.440\nmajor piece of that\n\n427\n00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:23.880\nbuilding a real relationship is, of course, time, as I said, but also listening\n\n428\n00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:25.360\nis a superpower.\n\n429\n00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:32.990\nThere's so much talking today. There's so much talking in this social media\n\n430\n00:25:32.990 --> 00:25:34.640\nworld. And if you're\n\n431\n00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:41.320\nsomeone who can sit with someone and be truly present and true presence is\n\n432\n00:25:41.320 --> 00:25:42.720\nhaving a closed mouth\n\n433\n00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:50.050\nand open ears and listening to what someone is saying and then following up on\n\n434\n00:25:50.050 --> 00:25:52.160\nwhat they're saying\n\n435\n00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:59.040\nto try to reach the next layer or the next level of vulnerability. And then you\n\n436\n00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:00.160\n're really breaking\n\n437\n00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:06.100\ndown who this person is, not what this person is. Those are very different\n\n438\n00:26:06.100 --> 00:26:06.720\nthings.\n\n439\n00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:13.530\nAnd the greatest leaders do that. And you know building these relationships,\n\n440\n00:26:13.530 --> 00:26:13.760\nMarty,\n\n441\n00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:21.600\nthey take time. Can you tell us about a relationship you invested years in\n\n442\n00:26:21.600 --> 00:26:26.160\nbefore it really produced a meaningful opportunity?\n\n443\n00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:36.280\nA meaningful opportunity. I try hard to invest in anybody that I have any\n\n444\n00:26:36.280 --> 00:26:37.600\nappreciable time with\n\n445\n00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:44.760\nto that degree. I'm a pretty curious person. And I love to learn the who, the\n\n446\n00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:47.360\nhow, not just I know\n\n447\n00:26:47.360 --> 00:26:53.440\nthe what, I know what you are. I like learning who. And that's been one reason\n\n448\n00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:54.720\nthat the interviews\n\n449\n00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:58.820\nthat I've done for college game day or, you know, the masters, whatever it is.\n\n450\n00:26:58.820 --> 00:27:01.840\nThat's why I feel like\n\n451\n00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:09.370\nI'm able to get some pretty good insight from these individuals because I'm\n\n452\n00:27:09.370 --> 00:27:09.920\nasking them an\n\n453\n00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:14.260\nopen-ended question, not a yes or no question. It's an open-ended question that\n\n454\n00:27:14.260 --> 00:27:14.960\nallows them to\n\n455\n00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:22.550\nshare their truth. And if you're listening, you genuinely open up a line of\n\n456\n00:27:22.550 --> 00:27:23.920\nvulnerability\n\n457\n00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:28.820\nwith someone else. And they're almost invariably going to share something that\n\n458\n00:27:28.820 --> 00:27:29.600\nthey don't share\n\n459\n00:27:29.600 --> 00:27:35.180\ntypically in their daily walk. I would say, going back to your question, a real\n\n460\n00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:36.080\nbreakthrough for me,\n\n461\n00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:40.980\nand this plays right into the listening piece. I'm very close with Dale Earn\n\n462\n00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:41.760\nhardt Jr.\n\n463\n00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:46.480\nexcited to be working with him starting next Sunday. I haven't done NASCAR in a\n\n464\n00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:46.960\nlong time,\n\n465\n00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:51.360\nbut I'm kind of dipping my toe back into pool over there. When I first got the\n\n466\n00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:52.320\nopportunities\n\n467\n00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:59.600\nat ESPN to do real in-depth, sit down interviews with athletes, I wanted so\n\n468\n00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:01.360\ndesperately through my own\n\n469\n00:28:01.360 --> 00:28:09.800\ninsecurity-driven ego to show the world what I knew. That wasn't my job. My job\n\n470\n00:28:09.800 --> 00:28:11.680\nwas to be a conduit\n\n471\n00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:18.640\nto what they know. And I was interviewing Jeff Gordon, and Jeff was sharing\n\n472\n00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.560\nsome aspect of his\n\n473\n00:28:22.560 --> 00:28:29.240\ncareer. And in the middle of that interview, I kept interrupting him in the\n\n474\n00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.120\neffort to kind of steer\n\n475\n00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:35.380\nthe interview back where I wanted it to go, not where it was going organically.\n\n476\n00:28:35.380 --> 00:28:37.920\nI wasn't really\n\n477\n00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:42.700\nlistening. I was prying. The interview ended, and I felt like it went pretty\n\n478\n00:28:42.700 --> 00:28:43.840\nwell. And a couple\n\n479\n00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:50.520\nweeks later, it aired on one of the pre-race shows on ESPN. And I'm getting all\n\n480\n00:28:50.520 --> 00:28:51.520\nthese paths on the\n\n481\n00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:58.180\nback from colleagues and social meme. I'm affirming myself through social media\n\n482\n00:28:58.180 --> 00:28:59.360\nand filling my ego\n\n483\n00:28:59.360 --> 00:29:06.190\nthrough that affirmation. Well, after that race, when that piece aired, my job\n\n484\n00:29:06.190 --> 00:29:07.360\nafter that race was\n\n485\n00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:15.800\nto go interview Dale Earnhardt Jr. And he had gotten in an accident, I think,\n\n486\n00:29:15.800 --> 00:29:16.720\nin the race ends,\n\n487\n00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:21.210\nand there are probably 30 reporters out there waiting for Dale to come talk to\n\n488\n00:29:21.210 --> 00:29:22.720\nus. And he got\n\n489\n00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.000\nout of his race car, and he's kind of looking around at the damage on his car.\n\n490\n00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.840\nAnd he turns,\n\n491\n00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:31.590\nand he looks, he stares a hole right through the back of my head, and he goes,\n\n492\n00:29:31.590 --> 00:29:32.960\n\"Come here.\" I'm kind\n\n493\n00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:38.060\nof looking at me. He goes, \"Come here.\" So I'll walk over to him, and he turns\n\n494\n00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:39.280\nhis back to the\n\n495\n00:29:39.280 --> 00:29:49.200\nassemblage and lays into me. He goes, \"Hey, you need to shut up. You need to\n\n496\n00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:50.400\nshut your mouth.\" And I\n\n497\n00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:54.480\nwas ready to bust him in a jaw. I'm like, \"What are you talking about?\" He goes\n\n498\n00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:55.360\n, \"I was watching that\n\n499\n00:29:55.360 --> 00:30:00.630\ninterview you did with Jeff.\" And there was a lot of things that he was getting\n\n500\n00:30:00.630 --> 00:30:02.400\nready to expound upon,\n\n501\n00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.710\nand you cut him off, and it was rude, and you know it. Don't do that. You look\n\n502\n00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:10.160\nfoolish. And again,\n\n503\n00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:16.110\nI was so mad, but I was only mad because I knew he was right. And that moment\n\n504\n00:30:16.110 --> 00:30:18.240\nchanged my entire\n\n505\n00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:23.170\ncareer. It did. That moment was a flashpoint moment for me because it\n\n506\n00:30:23.170 --> 00:30:24.800\ncompletely shifted the\n\n507\n00:30:24.800 --> 00:30:31.760\nway that I interview people, and the work has gotten exponentially better as a\n\n508\n00:30:31.760 --> 00:30:33.200\nresult of being a good\n\n509\n00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:40.480\nlistener. I'm forever indebted to him. How do you know when the difference\n\n510\n00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:41.920\nbetween listening versus\n\n511\n00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:49.600\nprying? That's very interesting. I think that prying is if someone is trying to\n\n512\n00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:50.640\nshare something,\n\n513\n00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:56.400\nwhether that's a failure at work, whether that's you're trying to scale a\n\n514\n00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.120\nbusiness,\n\n515\n00:30:57.120 --> 00:31:05.910\nand someone has an idea, and you're cutting off that idea. Think how that feels\n\n516\n00:31:05.910 --> 00:31:07.920\nto the individual\n\n517\n00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:17.450\nthat's trying to share some sort of insight, and you chop it off. Rather than\n\n518\n00:31:17.450 --> 00:31:19.040\nlet them finish their\n\n519\n00:31:19.040 --> 00:31:25.710\nthought, process that thought, and follow up on that thought either with a\n\n520\n00:31:25.710 --> 00:31:28.400\nsuggestion. Well, okay,\n\n521\n00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:35.280\nwhat if we took this route? Or in my case, the follow-up question always\n\n522\n00:31:35.280 --> 00:31:37.600\nresults in the greatest\n\n523\n00:31:37.600 --> 00:31:44.770\nanswer every time, all the time, all the time. And often, the follow-up\n\n524\n00:31:44.770 --> 00:31:46.960\nquestion is nothing,\n\n525\n00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:52.810\nbut why? Why did you do that? When? How did that happen? That's simple,\n\n526\n00:31:52.810 --> 00:31:54.320\ninvariably,\n\n527\n00:31:54.320 --> 00:32:01.020\nproduces the best insight and perspective. Hello, everyone. I hope you're\n\n528\n00:32:01.020 --> 00:32:03.680\nloving the 300th episode\n\n529\n00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:07.730\nof How Leaders Lead with David Novak. If you're loving this podcast and you're\n\n530\n00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:08.720\na loyal How Leaders\n\n531\n00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:12.980\nLead listener, I'd love it if you would subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's\n\n532\n00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:14.240\nreally easy. It just\n\n533\n00:32:14.240 --> 00:32:17.900\ntakes one second. Right now, you can take your little mouse and click subscribe\n\n534\n00:32:17.900 --> 00:32:18.480\n. That way,\n\n535\n00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.840\nyou won't ever miss out on our great content. Subscribe to the channel and\n\n536\n00:32:22.840 --> 00:32:23.840\nenjoy the rest of\n\n537\n00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:30.530\nthe show. Building relationships we talked about earlier, it takes time. You\n\n538\n00:32:30.530 --> 00:32:33.040\ngot to invest in it.\n\n539\n00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:37.760\nBut you have a natural charisma about you. There's no doubt about it. People\n\n540\n00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:38.800\nknow when you're\n\n541\n00:32:38.800 --> 00:32:45.520\nin the room, and they always say the first impression is often the most\n\n542\n00:32:45.520 --> 00:32:46.400\nimportant impression.\n\n543\n00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:53.070\nWhen you meet somebody for the first time, what's something that you do that\n\n544\n00:32:53.070 --> 00:32:55.120\nmost people might not do?\n\n545\n00:32:55.120 --> 00:33:00.720\nThe very first thing that I do is shake their hand and look them in the eye\n\n546\n00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.360\nlike my daddy\n\n547\n00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:08.720\ntaught me when I was four years old. I also, I guess, I don't dive directly\n\n548\n00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:09.200\ninto\n\n549\n00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:20.280\ntheir professional, what? I don't dive directly into the what. Like, if I'm\n\n550\n00:33:20.280 --> 00:33:22.000\nmeeting a country\n\n551\n00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:28.880\nmusic artist for the first time, the easy thing to do is say something about a\n\n552\n00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:30.240\nshow or say something\n\n553\n00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:35.940\nabout a song, and they hear that every single day, all day, every day, grocery\n\n554\n00:33:35.940 --> 00:33:38.560\nstore, gas station,\n\n555\n00:33:38.560 --> 00:33:50.480\nevery meet and greet. So if you can find that little nugget or that connection\n\n556\n00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:50.880\npoint\n\n557\n00:33:51.920 --> 00:34:01.710\nbetween you as people, then you're more memorable. There's also an\n\n558\n00:34:01.710 --> 00:34:03.440\nunderstanding from that person\n\n559\n00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:10.560\nthat you've taken that effort and made that effort to reach them on a different\n\n560\n00:34:10.560 --> 00:34:10.960\nplane.\n\n561\n00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:17.760\nAnd that matters. I mean, it really matters. I've been very blessed to\n\n562\n00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:25.680\nto do that a lot. I mean, Saban was a tough one, man. Saban was say he doesn't\n\n563\n00:34:25.680 --> 00:34:26.720\njust trust people.\n\n564\n00:34:26.720 --> 00:34:36.320\nHe doesn't just sit down across from anybody and offer these unbelievably\n\n565\n00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:37.840\ngolden nuggets of wisdom\n\n566\n00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:42.040\nthat he just carries around on his person and in his soul every day. I've\n\n567\n00:34:42.040 --> 00:34:43.680\nlearned more from that\n\n568\n00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:51.650\nman. He's probably had a greater influence on my life than 99% of the people I\n\n569\n00:34:51.650 --> 00:34:53.200\n've ever met.\n\n570\n00:34:53.200 --> 00:35:02.080\nAnd it's because he rewrote my understanding of self accountability and\n\n571\n00:35:02.080 --> 00:35:03.520\ndemanding best of\n\n572\n00:35:03.520 --> 00:35:10.210\nself every day and not hedging in that demand. And that's not easy all the time\n\n573\n00:35:10.210 --> 00:35:11.200\nfor anyone.\n\n574\n00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:15.300\nWhat's your before and after? I mean, you'd say he helped you get the self\n\n575\n00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:15.920\naccountability.\n\n576\n00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.040\nDescribe Marty Smith before the Marty Smith after meeting a Nick Saban.\n\n577\n00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:25.790\nI thought I knew how to prepare, but Coach Saban was one of those people. There\n\n578\n00:35:25.790 --> 00:35:27.040\n's been a few athletes\n\n579\n00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:34.720\nor leaders in my career that I've been tasked with gleaning that insight. And I\n\n580\n00:35:34.720 --> 00:35:35.440\nthought I knew how\n\n581\n00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:41.380\nto prepare. But Coach Saban was always one of those people that gave you what\n\n582\n00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:43.760\nyou give. In other\n\n583\n00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:51.000\nwords, if you show up and it's surface level and it's it doesn't have a lot of\n\n584\n00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:52.640\ndepth emotionally or\n\n585\n00:35:52.640 --> 00:35:58.080\ntechnically or schematically in the football context, he's going to give you\n\n586\n00:35:58.080 --> 00:36:06.240\nsurfacey answers. But if you show up to play and you're asking him questions\n\n587\n00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:07.680\nthat are nuanced,\n\n588\n00:36:07.680 --> 00:36:12.800\nthat do have depth psychologically even he's a he's fascinated with psychology\n\n589\n00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:13.600\nand how to reach\n\n590\n00:36:13.600 --> 00:36:20.600\nthese young men where they are. He's the greatest to ever do it. And he was\n\n591\n00:36:20.600 --> 00:36:23.040\nalways able to take\n\n592\n00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:28.500\nthe greatest player that ever came from whatever town. They've been told they\n\n593\n00:36:28.500 --> 00:36:28.640\nwere\n\n594\n00:36:28.640 --> 00:36:32.730\nthe greatest player in the history of the game since they were 12 years old.\n\n595\n00:36:32.730 --> 00:36:34.160\nAnd he's able to break\n\n596\n00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:39.760\ndown all of those individuals into an incredible unit. He's a great I mean,\n\n597\n00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:40.880\njust what standing in\n\n598\n00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:47.540\npractice or being in a meeting and watching him do that was a fascinating\n\n599\n00:36:47.540 --> 00:36:48.640\nmasterclass education\n\n600\n00:36:48.640 --> 00:36:53.760\nthat I received and continue to now that he's a colleague. You often talk about\n\n601\n00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.280\npreparing\n\n602\n00:36:55.280 --> 00:37:03.520\nextensively and then I love throwing it away. Walk me through that process. It\n\n603\n00:37:03.520 --> 00:37:04.400\ndemands that I'm\n\n604\n00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:09.870\nlistening. It goes back to that piece of this because I will if I'm doing a sit\n\n605\n00:37:09.870 --> 00:37:11.040\ndown interview\n\n606\n00:37:11.040 --> 00:37:16.880\nwith David Novak, I'm going to study you. I'm going to study. I'm going to read\n\n607\n00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:18.400\n. I'm going to watch.\n\n608\n00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:24.040\nI'm going to consume. And I'm going to have a free flowing list of questions.\n\n609\n00:37:24.040 --> 00:37:25.280\nEverything that\n\n610\n00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:31.130\nenters my mind. I'm creating a question list. And then I will take that\n\n611\n00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:33.600\nquestion list and I will\n\n612\n00:37:33.600 --> 00:37:39.070\npair it down to about eight or 10 depending on the time window I'm given with\n\n613\n00:37:39.070 --> 00:37:40.160\nthe individual with\n\n614\n00:37:40.160 --> 00:37:47.040\nthe subject. And I will study those eight to 10 questions over and over and\n\n615\n00:37:47.040 --> 00:37:49.200\nover and commit them\n\n616\n00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:53.900\nto some semblance of memory, not verbatim, but some semblance of memory. And\n\n617\n00:37:53.900 --> 00:37:55.360\nthen I throw the\n\n618\n00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:03.010\nnotes away because it goes back to if I'm interviewing you and I ask you a\n\n619\n00:38:03.010 --> 00:38:04.960\nquestion and you start to\n\n620\n00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:13.030\nshare with me the depth of the subject matter. And as soon as you start talking\n\n621\n00:38:13.030 --> 00:38:14.080\n, I'm looking down\n\n622\n00:38:14.080 --> 00:38:18.340\nat my knee at that question list. Do you think that you're going to feel like I\n\n623\n00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:19.440\n'm listening to you?\n\n624\n00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:28.760\nNo. So I will, that way I can ask the question and I can completely be present\n\n625\n00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:30.720\nwith the individual.\n\n626\n00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:37.200\nSo you think the overpreparation really helps you be present? 100%.\n\n627\n00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:43.440\nI think excellence lives at the intersection of preparedness and passion.\n\n628\n00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:51.580\nI think that preparation, think about it. People, if we have anxiety about\n\n629\n00:38:51.580 --> 00:38:53.760\nsomething and all of us\n\n630\n00:38:53.760 --> 00:39:02.000\nin some context have some anxious energy about something. If you prepare to the\n\n631\n00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.360\nabsolute optimum\n\n632\n00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:12.320\nmaximum output of your ability, then if you have anxiety, it's certainly far\n\n633\n00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:13.280\nless than it would be\n\n634\n00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:20.310\nif you feel unprepared. And that took me a long time to, I still haven't\n\n635\n00:39:20.310 --> 00:39:21.440\nmastered it,\n\n636\n00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:26.960\nbut I'm getting closer every day. I mean, again, I'm going back to NASCAR\n\n637\n00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:27.920\nstarting this weekend.\n\n638\n00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:34.620\nI haven't been full time in that garage since 2014 and I'm hosting a show the\n\n639\n00:39:34.620 --> 00:39:35.680\nnext five weeks.\n\n640\n00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:48.000\nAnd I've spent my entire last week, I mean, just completely immersed in\n\n641\n00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:50.320\nlearning and making sure\n\n642\n00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:54.930\nthat I'm prepared so that I'm never surprised. You know, Marty, I feel like I'm\n\n643\n00:39:54.930 --> 00:39:56.000\nlearning a lot\n\n644\n00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:02.960\nin this podcast, this conversation with you about interviewing. You're such a\n\n645\n00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:04.880\ngood journalist\n\n646\n00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:12.000\nand you know how to build relationships. Who do you go to to learn from now?\n\n647\n00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.320\nAre there\n\n648\n00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:19.040\npeople in the industry that you go to that are teaching you a lot these days?\n\n649\n00:40:19.040 --> 00:40:27.220\nI have a boss named Mike McQuaid at ESPN who is an absolute savant. He's a\n\n650\n00:40:27.220 --> 00:40:28.560\nbrilliant mind.\n\n651\n00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:35.040\nAnd if I'm preparing for something, I always run my question thoughts through\n\n652\n00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:35.360\nhim.\n\n653\n00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:49.120\nIn terms of the craft of how to prepare or execute a good interview,\n\n654\n00:40:49.120 --> 00:40:54.390\nmy former colleague, Tom Renaldi, who's now at Fox, who's just the greatest,\n\n655\n00:40:54.390 --> 00:40:54.960\nmost brilliant\n\n656\n00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:00.480\nstoryteller. I watched a lot of Tom Renaldi interviews to watch how he crafted\n\n657\n00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:01.600\nquestions,\n\n658\n00:41:01.600 --> 00:41:07.600\nhow he followed up on questions, incredible listener, incredible writer, the\n\n659\n00:41:07.600 --> 00:41:08.800\nway he crafts a\n\n660\n00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:13.780\nfeature to make you feel that emotion that you're trying to convey through a\n\n661\n00:41:13.780 --> 00:41:15.600\nstory or that insight\n\n662\n00:41:15.600 --> 00:41:21.060\nyou're trying to project. So I would say those two are certainly really\n\n663\n00:41:21.060 --> 00:41:22.240\nimportant, but\n\n664\n00:41:23.680 --> 00:41:33.210\nthese days, man, the stories that we're telling are so rich that I'm just\n\n665\n00:41:33.210 --> 00:41:34.480\ntrying to do my best\n\n666\n00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:41.310\nto be a good conduit of that story because these young men and women playing\n\n667\n00:41:41.310 --> 00:41:42.400\nsports now\n\n668\n00:41:43.040 --> 00:41:50.440\nare so smart. And a lot of them have had strife, they've had to overcome, they\n\n669\n00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:53.680\n've had to rewrite\n\n670\n00:41:53.680 --> 00:42:00.360\nwhat they believed was going to be their path because there is nothing seems\n\n671\n00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:01.360\nterribly linear.\n\n672\n00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:14.400\nAnd so, yeah, man, it's an evolution every day, but I am grateful that I do\n\n673\n00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:15.600\nhave those voices\n\n674\n00:42:15.600 --> 00:42:19.860\nwho I can lean on and go to and say, \"What do you think about this? What did I\n\n675\n00:42:19.860 --> 00:42:20.480\ndo well? Give\n\n676\n00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:26.290\nme constructive feedback?\" Because again, going back to leadership, if you're\n\n677\n00:42:26.290 --> 00:42:27.280\nnot willing to\n\n678\n00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:33.980\nself-evaluate, then you can't evolve. If you're not willing to look at how you\n\n679\n00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:35.280\nexecuted a task,\n\n680\n00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:41.460\nwhat you did well, what you didn't do well, so that you can adjust and evolve,\n\n681\n00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:42.400\nthen your ego is in\n\n682\n00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:47.590\nthe way. I interviewed Patty Gasso. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Coach\n\n683\n00:42:47.590 --> 00:42:48.560\nGasso. She's one\n\n684\n00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:52.370\neight national championships with the University of Oklahoma Women's Softball\n\n685\n00:42:52.370 --> 00:42:54.560\nteam. And she was in\n\n686\n00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:59.460\nsideline CEO. And that's what she said. If you're not willing to self-evaluate\n\n687\n00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:00.240\nand evolve, then your\n\n688\n00:43:00.240 --> 00:43:08.210\nego is in the way because that's everything. The context of what worked last\n\n689\n00:43:08.210 --> 00:43:10.960\nyear may not be\n\n690\n00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:15.740\nwhat's going to work this year. Your failures last year as a leader, you have\n\n691\n00:43:15.740 --> 00:43:17.360\nto be willing to look\n\n692\n00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.260\nin the mirror and admit it, because the window through which the world sees us\n\n693\n00:43:22.260 --> 00:43:25.440\nall can't be hidden\n\n694\n00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:32.110\nin the mirror. You might be able to make your way through a leadership moment.\n\n695\n00:43:32.110 --> 00:43:34.000\nBut when you get\n\n696\n00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:37.050\nhome and you're brushing your teeth, you probably know whether or not you\n\n697\n00:43:37.050 --> 00:43:38.160\nexecuted it to the fullest\n\n698\n00:43:38.160 --> 00:43:45.310\nor not. Self-awareness is so key. One of the exercises I always talk about is,\n\n699\n00:43:45.310 --> 00:43:45.760\nI call it my\n\n700\n00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:49.840\nthree by five exercise where you write down on one side of the card, what am I\n\n701\n00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:49.840\ntoday?\n\n702\n00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:55.040\nAnd on the other side is, how can I be more effective tomorrow? When you look\n\n703\n00:43:55.040 --> 00:43:55.600\nat where you're\n\n704\n00:43:55.600 --> 00:44:00.240\nat in your career, how are you trying to sharpen your acts now? What are you\n\n705\n00:44:00.240 --> 00:44:01.040\nworking on to make\n\n706\n00:44:01.040 --> 00:44:05.490\nyourself an even better leader? Complacency is the greatest threat to\n\n707\n00:44:05.490 --> 00:44:07.520\nexcellence, to quote Nick Saban.\n\n708\n00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:17.970\nAnd when you've become entrenched in a job, you become entrenched in a task and\n\n709\n00:44:17.970 --> 00:44:19.040\nyou're starting to\n\n710\n00:44:19.040 --> 00:44:27.040\nreally grow well into how to execute those tasks, you can coast. It's just a\n\n711\n00:44:27.040 --> 00:44:27.360\nfact,\n\n712\n00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:35.010\na lot of people who are accomplished individuals will get to a place where they\n\n713\n00:44:35.010 --> 00:44:35.680\n're comfortable.\n\n714\n00:44:36.640 --> 00:44:41.540\nAnd I don't want to be comfortable. I want to be challenged every single day.\n\n715\n00:44:41.540 --> 00:44:43.120\nAnd that's one reason\n\n716\n00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:50.970\nthat the diversity in my career is so wonderful for me is, when you're going\n\n717\n00:44:50.970 --> 00:44:52.880\nfrom college football,\n\n718\n00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:58.160\nstraight to golf, straight to horse racing, straight to NASCAR, there's a lot\n\n719\n00:44:58.160 --> 00:45:00.160\nof insecurity\n\n720\n00:45:00.160 --> 00:45:06.460\nthat can come with that because you're only there because they expect that you\n\n721\n00:45:06.460 --> 00:45:07.680\n'll succeed and they\n\n722\n00:45:07.680 --> 00:45:12.850\nexpect that you'll be a beneficiary or you'll be beneficial, excuse me, to the\n\n723\n00:45:12.850 --> 00:45:14.320\nbroader product.\n\n724\n00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:21.040\nI just don't, I don't want to be in a position where I feel comfortable. And I\n\n725\n00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:22.000\nlove this quote.\n\n726\n00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:25.440\nI'm going to read it to you, David. You're going to love this quote. I carry it\n\n727\n00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.320\non my person\n\n728\n00:45:27.120 --> 00:45:33.800\nevery single day here in my phone as a tangible reminder of how powerful that\n\n729\n00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:35.920\nself accountability\n\n730\n00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:40.720\nis every single day. All right. I've sat down with Nick Saban one time.\n\n731\n00:45:40.720 --> 00:45:45.520\nCan you tell he's had an impact on the life? I sat down with Coach Saban one\n\n732\n00:45:45.520 --> 00:45:47.360\ntime and he said\n\n733\n00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:52.430\nthis quote. All right. When you're climbing a mountain, you look up. You never\n\n734\n00:45:52.430 --> 00:45:53.520\nlook back.\n\n735\n00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:59.220\nComplacency is something that everyone who's had any level of success must\n\n736\n00:45:59.220 --> 00:46:00.640\nchallenge themselves to\n\n737\n00:46:00.640 --> 00:46:06.340\novercome, but it's not just the willingness to do it. It's the why you're\n\n738\n00:46:06.340 --> 00:46:07.600\nwilling to do it\n\n739\n00:46:07.600 --> 00:46:13.560\nbecause the why creates the passion for the what and the passion creates the\n\n740\n00:46:13.560 --> 00:46:15.280\nability to sustain it.\n\n741\n00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:21.900\nThat is fantastic. I mean, it's the greatest quote. I mean, I was like, wait,\n\n742\n00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:22.720\nwhat? Say that again.\n\n743\n00:46:24.080 --> 00:46:29.200\nIt was just, I thought it was incredible. And I mean, he said a million things\n\n744\n00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:29.600\nto me that\n\n745\n00:46:29.600 --> 00:46:33.650\nresonated so deeply. That's certainly one of them. But another one that's much\n\n746\n00:46:33.650 --> 00:46:33.840\nsimpler is\n\n747\n00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:39.680\nmediocre people don't like high achievers and high achievers don't like\n\n748\n00:46:39.680 --> 00:46:41.200\nmediocre people.\n\n749\n00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:46.960\nAnd if you think about that, it sounds very simple, but man, is it profound.\n\n750\n00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.910\nYeah. That is totally profound. That's amazing. I've always wanted to do a\n\n751\n00:46:52.910 --> 00:46:54.800\npodcast with him. I\n\n752\n00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:58.980\ngot to get him on my show someday because he is. Your mind will be blown. It's\n\n753\n00:46:58.980 --> 00:46:59.760\na masterclass\n\n754\n00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:05.220\nevery day. It really is. You know, and you've been around such great leaders. I\n\n755\n00:47:05.220 --> 00:47:06.160\nmean, or let's\n\n756\n00:47:06.160 --> 00:47:10.360\nsay great athletes that were leaders in their field. And what's the biggest\n\n757\n00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:11.920\nlearning you got by,\n\n758\n00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:14.320\nyou know, being around Tiger Woods, for example?\n\n759\n00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:24.320\nI remember the first time I sat across from him. It was in 2018. And I was, you\n\n760\n00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:25.040\nknow, that list we\n\n761\n00:47:25.040 --> 00:47:28.090\nwere talking about earlier. I'm going through that list, going through that\n\n762\n00:47:28.090 --> 00:47:28.800\nlist, going through\n\n763\n00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:36.890\nthat list. I want to ask him questions that demand he thinks that it's not just\n\n764\n00:47:36.890 --> 00:47:38.080\nthe same thing.\n\n765\n00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:46.670\nAnd he's a genuinely private guy. He's hard to get to. And so I wanted to\n\n766\n00:47:46.670 --> 00:47:47.920\nmaximize the opportunity.\n\n767\n00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:59.520\nI've learned from Tiger that the insatiable drive to compete is so powerful.\n\n768\n00:47:59.520 --> 00:48:01.440\nTiger Kobe and MJ\n\n769\n00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:12.560\nhave a gear had in Kobe's instance, a gear that their competitive nature was so\n\n770\n00:48:12.560 --> 00:48:13.600\npalpable. It\n\n771\n00:48:13.600 --> 00:48:18.710\npermeated everyone in their midst. And you feel it, David. I'm sure you've been\n\n772\n00:48:18.710 --> 00:48:20.400\naround Tiger. There's\n\n773\n00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:28.850\nan aura, man. And even at TGL, even at TGL, which is certainly a far cry for\n\n774\n00:48:28.850 --> 00:48:31.440\nmajor championship golf.\n\n775\n00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:39.440\nBut when I'm around him down there at TGL, there's just an air of, we're here\n\n776\n00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:41.120\nto, we're here to win.\n\n777\n00:48:41.120 --> 00:48:46.400\nAnd he said to me in that first interview, this stop time for me, this comment,\n\n778\n00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:48.800\nmy question to him\n\n779\n00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:55.470\nwas, why were you so dominant for so long? And he said, I just want to beat you\n\n780\n00:48:55.470 --> 00:48:56.400\n. I said, Tiger,\n\n781\n00:48:56.400 --> 00:49:01.080\nit can't be that simply, and he cut me off. He goes, Marty, I didn't say I\n\n782\n00:49:01.080 --> 00:49:02.240\nwanted to win.\n\n783\n00:49:02.240 --> 00:49:08.240\nI said, I wanted to beat you. And I sat back in my chair and went, Oh, dang,\n\n784\n00:49:08.240 --> 00:49:15.240\nthat's just a different, you know, you know, Eric really well too. He has that\n\n785\n00:49:15.240 --> 00:49:16.240\nsame gene.\n\n786\n00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:26.070\nThere's certain people who have a competitive nature that is just different.\n\n787\n00:49:26.070 --> 00:49:27.040\nAnd it demands\n\n788\n00:49:27.040 --> 00:49:33.060\nthat you elevate if you're going to even be in their presence, because they won\n\n789\n00:49:33.060 --> 00:49:34.480\n't tolerate mediocrity.\n\n790\n00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:39.380\nThey constantly reinvent themselves, you know, and, you know, I would Tiger\n\n791\n00:49:39.380 --> 00:49:40.720\nchange his swing a few\n\n792\n00:49:40.720 --> 00:49:44.190\ntimes, you know, even when he was at the height in his career striving for\n\n793\n00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:46.080\ngreatness. You know,\n\n794\n00:49:46.080 --> 00:49:50.080\nanother grand slam winner today is Rory McElroy. What about him? What, what,\n\n795\n00:49:50.080 --> 00:49:50.160\nwhat, what, what\n\n796\n00:49:50.160 --> 00:49:54.650\nhave you picked up from him? Been around him for a long time, built a great\n\n797\n00:49:54.650 --> 00:49:56.480\nrelationship with him.\n\n798\n00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:04.920\nAnd he is someone who across the tour, if you're just talking about God-given\n\n799\n00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:05.360\ntalent,\n\n800\n00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:10.340\nRory's going to be the first name that his peers mentioned, that all the\n\n801\n00:50:10.340 --> 00:50:11.680\nexperts mentioned.\n\n802\n00:50:11.680 --> 00:50:20.320\nHe just has a swing from God, but he's continued to develop his game. And\n\n803\n00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:21.120\nbeyond that,\n\n804\n00:50:21.120 --> 00:50:25.880\nhe's developed to quote Bobby Jones, the most difficult golf course in the\n\n805\n00:50:25.880 --> 00:50:26.480\nworld,\n\n806\n00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:33.220\nthe five inch space between your ears through failure, through embarrassment,\n\n807\n00:50:33.220 --> 00:50:34.640\nthrough heartbreak,\n\n808\n00:50:34.640 --> 00:50:39.920\nthrough years and years and years of trying to get that career grand slam, Rory\n\n809\n00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:41.040\nkept coming back.\n\n810\n00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:48.500\nAnd there were moments of overwhelming, overwhelming disappointment, missing\n\n811\n00:50:48.500 --> 00:50:50.160\ncuts at Augusta,\n\n812\n00:50:50.160 --> 00:50:57.580\nfinishing second at Augusta, and never could climb that mountain. And then once\n\n813\n00:50:57.580 --> 00:50:58.400\nhe did,\n\n814\n00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:05.130\nI mean, it unlocked something in him that he didn't, he didn't know what it\n\n815\n00:51:05.130 --> 00:51:06.240\nwould be,\n\n816\n00:51:07.040 --> 00:51:12.080\nbut then once he unlocked it, because he was able to slay that dragon,\n\n817\n00:51:12.080 --> 00:51:17.440\nI mean, heaven knows how many of these he's going to win.\n\n818\n00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:22.400\nYou know, Marty, the, the five inches between your ears, you know, so many of\n\n819\n00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:23.040\nus as leaders,\n\n820\n00:51:23.040 --> 00:51:28.000\nwe self-sabotage ourselves. You know, we have these things, you know, you know,\n\n821\n00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:29.040\nhow do you get\n\n822\n00:51:29.040 --> 00:51:32.620\nthrough the demons? How do you get rid of those demons to keep you from\n\n823\n00:51:32.620 --> 00:51:34.080\nachieving greatness as a\n\n824\n00:51:34.080 --> 00:51:39.840\nleader? I think there's a lot of layers to that. One of them, in my opinion,\n\n825\n00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:41.280\nand I talked to Kirby\n\n826\n00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:48.470\nsmart about this delegation is so important. You know this. You have to build a\n\n827\n00:51:48.470 --> 00:51:50.320\nteam because\n\n828\n00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:59.280\nexcellence so often is a team sport. And Kirby told me that he did not become a\n\n829\n00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:00.720\nnational championship\n\n830\n00:52:00.720 --> 00:52:05.760\nhead coach. He did not become a national champion until he genuinely learned to\n\n831\n00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.520\ndelegate. He hired\n\n832\n00:52:07.520 --> 00:52:13.500\npeople to do a job and he let them do that job. He told me, I'm held a\n\n833\n00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:16.880\nworkforce. Hell, every day,\n\n834\n00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:23.550\nI'm held a workforce. But until I was finally willing to hire excellence and\n\n835\n00:52:23.550 --> 00:52:24.880\nlet them be excellent,\n\n836\n00:52:25.680 --> 00:52:33.770\nI couldn't win because a CEO has to delegate. And if you are micromanaging,\n\n837\n00:52:33.770 --> 00:52:35.440\nthat's your ego.\n\n838\n00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:42.110\nIf you delegate its self-confidence, they are not the same thing. In fact, they\n\n839\n00:52:42.110 --> 00:52:43.040\nare polar opposite\n\n840\n00:52:43.040 --> 00:52:49.720\nends of the spectrum because if you're self-confident, you're willing to allow\n\n841\n00:52:49.720 --> 00:52:51.600\nthose people to be great\n\n842\n00:52:51.600 --> 00:52:59.440\ntoo. And that took time for Kirby. And once he did it, he built arguably the\n\n843\n00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.160\nbest program\n\n844\n00:53:00.160 --> 00:53:05.920\nin the sport. And you know, Marty, you're a very human person. The way you've\n\n845\n00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:06.720\ndifferentiated\n\n846\n00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:12.240\nyourself is by being incredibly capable of building these relationships where\n\n847\n00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:14.720\npeople trust you,\n\n848\n00:53:14.720 --> 00:53:22.960\nwhich is so, so important. So when you think about that and I compare that to\n\n849\n00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:23.520\nwhat's going on in\n\n850\n00:53:23.520 --> 00:53:31.120\nthe world with AI, you're Mr. Human and then there's AI. How is AI, how do you\n\n851\n00:53:31.120 --> 00:53:32.640\nlook at AI? How do you\n\n852\n00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:39.040\nthink about it in your life? I've been completely against it. I'm coming around\n\n853\n00:53:39.040 --> 00:53:42.560\n. I'm seeing some of\n\n854\n00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:51.310\nthe incredible, just mind-blowing things that AI does and will continue to\n\n855\n00:53:51.310 --> 00:53:54.000\nevolve and do as we move\n\n856\n00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:01.520\nalong. But as someone who has made his whole life off of intellectual property,\n\n857\n00:54:01.520 --> 00:54:04.880\nit's daunting.\n\n858\n00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:12.270\nThink about songwriters. Think about novelists. Think about authors. Think\n\n859\n00:54:12.270 --> 00:54:14.240\nabout people who\n\n860\n00:54:14.240 --> 00:54:23.280\nhave been gifted with a mind that allows for that creative ability to produce\n\n861\n00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:24.000\nsomething that\n\n862\n00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:30.680\nbecomes a living, breathing thing. And now somebody can go on the computer and\n\n863\n00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:31.120\nthey can\n\n864\n00:54:31.120 --> 00:54:37.790\ncreate it in 10 minutes. That's hard for me to reconcile. It really is. And\n\n865\n00:54:37.790 --> 00:54:38.560\nthen my\n\n866\n00:54:38.560 --> 00:54:44.870\nice maker breaks in my refrigerator and my wife goes on chat GPT and the thing\n\n867\n00:54:44.870 --> 00:54:45.280\ntells me\n\n868\n00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:54.810\nexactly how to fix it and I had it fixed in five minutes. So I know that it's\n\n869\n00:54:54.810 --> 00:54:55.520\ngoing to,\n\n870\n00:54:55.520 --> 00:55:00.880\nit's here. I mean, it's just, it's here. So embracing it is the right thing to\n\n871\n00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:01.120\ndo,\n\n872\n00:55:01.120 --> 00:55:08.000\nbut I have been apprehensive just out of loyalty to how I've made a life and\n\n873\n00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:09.440\nhow so many of my\n\n874\n00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:16.200\nfriends, colleagues have made their lives. It's hard. You know what I mean? It\n\n875\n00:55:16.200 --> 00:55:17.280\n's a hard thing to\n\n876\n00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:22.810\nreconcile as somebody that's made a living off intellectual property. Yeah, I\n\n877\n00:55:22.810 --> 00:55:24.000\nappreciate that\n\n878\n00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:29.700\nperspective and it's a damn good one. And yeah, well, you know, I use AI all\n\n879\n00:55:29.700 --> 00:55:30.560\nthe time now,\n\n880\n00:55:30.560 --> 00:55:37.230\nyou know, and I find that it makes me a lot smarter. And I personally believe\n\n881\n00:55:37.230 --> 00:55:37.520\nthat\n\n882\n00:55:37.520 --> 00:55:41.860\nthe great companies, the great leaders are going to teach their people how to\n\n883\n00:55:41.860 --> 00:55:42.560\nask great\n\n884\n00:55:42.560 --> 00:55:46.660\nquestions so you can get the most out of AI, you know, because I think that\n\n885\n00:55:46.660 --> 00:55:47.440\nmore you dig,\n\n886\n00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:51.530\njust like you dig in journalism and you get beneath the surface and you ask\n\n887\n00:55:51.530 --> 00:55:52.160\ndeeper and\n\n888\n00:55:52.160 --> 00:55:57.280\nmore refined questions, the better the output's going to be. So, but I don't\n\n889\n00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:58.160\nlike the fact that,\n\n890\n00:55:58.160 --> 00:56:01.820\nyou know, I'm a creative person myself. I dabble in this. I write songs. I'm\n\n891\n00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:02.480\nactually going to be\n\n892\n00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:06.970\nproducing my first album this year, you know, you know, and I'm excited about\n\n893\n00:56:06.970 --> 00:56:08.640\nthat. But, you know,\n\n894\n00:56:08.640 --> 00:56:13.360\nit bothers me like you that somebody could go and chat GPT and, you know, write\n\n895\n00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:14.560\na country song.\n\n896\n00:56:14.560 --> 00:56:20.740\nI read an article and your production staff will have to fact check me on this,\n\n897\n00:56:20.740 --> 00:56:21.440\nbut I think this\n\n898\n00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:29.590\nis accurate. I think it was the November 2025 country music singles chart. I\n\n899\n00:56:29.590 --> 00:56:31.040\nthink four of the\n\n900\n00:56:31.040 --> 00:56:37.680\ntop 10 songs were AI songs. I don't like that. It made me, I almost had to go p\n\n901\n00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:37.680\nuke.\n\n902\n00:56:37.680 --> 00:56:42.160\nYou know, I don't like that. You know, I think creativity is, is something we\n\n903\n00:56:42.160 --> 00:56:42.720\nall have. And\n\n904\n00:56:42.720 --> 00:56:48.080\nhopefully, you know, I don't know that it's something we all have. We all don't\n\n905\n00:56:48.080 --> 00:56:49.200\nhave it. Right. We all\n\n906\n00:56:49.200 --> 00:56:53.760\nwant to have. Okay. And so when you find somebody like yourself who has it or\n\n907\n00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:54.960\nan Eric Church who has\n\n908\n00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:58.990\nit and all these great people who have it, you know, all the creative people\n\n909\n00:56:58.990 --> 00:57:00.480\nout there, you know,\n\n910\n00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:04.880\nit's a point of differentiation that I like seeing coming from the human being.\n\n911\n00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:07.200\nOkay. I may be wrong,\n\n912\n00:57:07.200 --> 00:57:11.300\nbut that's kind of how I look at it. I do think when it's coming from a human\n\n913\n00:57:11.300 --> 00:57:12.560\nbeing, at least now,\n\n914\n00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:21.920\nthe emotional presence within the product, you can feel whether that's a song,\n\n915\n00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:22.720\nwhether that's a\n\n916\n00:57:22.720 --> 00:57:30.080\nfeature on college game day, whether that's, you know, whatever piece of art\n\n917\n00:57:30.080 --> 00:57:32.960\nthat a piece of\n\n918\n00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:38.830\nart. I mean, that artist has spent his or her entire life learning how to\n\n919\n00:57:38.830 --> 00:57:41.200\ncreate these beautiful\n\n920\n00:57:42.160 --> 00:57:47.840\nimages that they're taking a piece of their soul and they're placing on that\n\n921\n00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:48.560\ncanvas,\n\n922\n00:57:48.560 --> 00:57:54.550\nor they're taking a piece of their soul and they're placing in that song. That\n\n923\n00:57:54.550 --> 00:57:55.760\n's a vulnerable\n\n924\n00:57:55.760 --> 00:58:02.450\npiece of the human condition that lives forever in that work of art. And if\n\n925\n00:58:02.450 --> 00:58:04.480\nthat were lost,\n\n926\n00:58:06.080 --> 00:58:11.960\nI just, I don't like it. Yeah. And, you know, let's, you know, great example\n\n927\n00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:13.200\nrecently that I just\n\n928\n00:58:13.200 --> 00:58:17.300\nloved. And I'm sure since Eric Church is a mutual friend of ours is the\n\n929\n00:58:17.300 --> 00:58:18.960\ncommencement speech he gave\n\n930\n00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:23.070\nit North Carolina. It's one of the most brilliant speeches I've ever seen. He\n\n931\n00:58:23.070 --> 00:58:24.400\ntalked about the chords\n\n932\n00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:31.080\non the guitar and, you know, the most important chord was the widest chord\n\n933\n00:58:31.080 --> 00:58:32.560\nbecause it represented\n\n934\n00:58:32.560 --> 00:58:36.650\nthe foundation. And that's what you have to have in life. You have to have that\n\n935\n00:58:36.650 --> 00:58:36.720\nstrong\n\n936\n00:58:36.720 --> 00:58:41.170\nfoundation. He's worked his way up the seven chords, but it was brilliant. And,\n\n937\n00:58:41.170 --> 00:58:41.440\nyou know,\n\n938\n00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:46.340\nit came from the heart. It came from insight. It came from experience. And, you\n\n939\n00:58:46.340 --> 00:58:46.480\nknow,\n\n940\n00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:52.320\nthat's irreplaceable with my mind. It's, I mean, if it's not the greatest\n\n941\n00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:53.600\nspeech I've ever heard,\n\n942\n00:58:53.600 --> 00:58:58.990\nI agree with you. It's certainly one of them. And there's only one person I\n\n943\n00:58:58.990 --> 00:59:00.080\nknow that could\n\n944\n00:59:00.080 --> 00:59:04.880\nhave ever written something like that and been that creative and been able to\n\n945\n00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:07.840\nremove all that\n\n946\n00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:12.150\nfrustration you were discussing a few moments ago in leadership. How do you get\n\n947\n00:59:12.150 --> 00:59:13.280\nout of your own way?\n\n948\n00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:22.890\nHow do you distill yourself back to that foundation level and utilize all the\n\n949\n00:59:22.890 --> 00:59:24.000\nfailures,\n\n950\n00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:31.460\nall the triumph, all the lessons that come from both, all of the evolution, the\n\n951\n00:59:31.460 --> 00:59:31.920\nculture that you've\n\n952\n00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:37.410\nbuilt within your life, your family and your team in order to create something\n\n953\n00:59:37.410 --> 00:59:38.400\nlike that.\n\n954\n00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:45.590\nThe brilliance has no measure. The brilliance has no definition. It's just a\n\n955\n00:59:45.590 --> 00:59:47.120\ncreative masterpiece.\n\n956\n00:59:47.120 --> 00:59:52.560\nAnd that when he writes that book, it'll be a bestseller instantly.\n\n957\n00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:57.370\nYeah. And, you know, to all our listeners, you got to go online and see the\n\n958\n00:59:57.370 --> 00:59:57.760\ncommencement speech\n\n959\n00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:01.920\nin North Carolina. It's, it's one of the, one of the best. And, you know,\n\n960\n01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:03.120\nMartin, this has been so\n\n961\n01:00:03.120 --> 01:00:06.170\nmuch fun. I want to have a little bit more fun before we wrap this all up. I\n\n962\n01:00:06.170 --> 01:00:07.120\nalways do a lightning\n\n963\n01:00:07.120 --> 01:00:11.380\nround of questions. So are you ready for this? Yes, sir. The three words that\n\n964\n01:00:11.380 --> 01:00:12.240\nbest describe you.\n\n965\n01:00:12.240 --> 01:00:20.240\nPassionate, loyal, and kind. If you could be one person for a day besides\n\n966\n01:00:20.240 --> 01:00:21.760\nyourself, who would it be?\n\n967\n01:00:21.760 --> 01:00:27.760\nI can't be my dog, right? My dog's got the greatest life in the world. So I'm\n\n968\n01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:29.200\ngoing to say I would be\n\n969\n01:00:29.200 --> 01:00:37.760\nCasey Bethard, your biggest pet peeve. I guess the one that I'll use is I hate\n\n970\n01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:38.720\nbathrooms without\n\n971\n01:00:38.720 --> 01:00:46.310\npaper towels. Who would pay you? I hate them damn hand blowers. Who would play\n\n972\n01:00:46.310 --> 01:00:47.360\nyou in a movie?\n\n973\n01:00:48.080 --> 01:00:52.880\nBrad Pitt or McConaughey, the interview you'd love to have a second chance at.\n\n974\n01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:53.760\nI would love to have\n\n975\n01:00:53.760 --> 01:01:00.440\na second chance to interview Kyle Bush, whom we just lost. He had gotten in\n\n976\n01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:01.760\nsome, he had made some\n\n977\n01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:08.570\nmistakes as a, as a driver and granted me an interview at the Brickyard 400. I\n\n978\n01:01:08.570 --> 01:01:09.520\nwant to say in\n\n979\n01:01:09.520 --> 01:01:16.300\naround 2012. And I was so green that I would love to have that one back now on\n\n980\n01:01:16.300 --> 01:01:18.000\nmany levels.\n\n981\n01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:22.980\nYour favorite song by Celine Dion? Oh, come on, man. Do you want me to sing it?\n\n982\n01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:23.600\nYeah.\n\n983\n01:01:23.600 --> 01:01:30.290\nWhen that happened, a lot of your listeners may not know this story. So my\n\n984\n01:01:30.290 --> 01:01:32.720\nfavorite song by Celine Dion\n\n985\n01:01:32.720 --> 01:01:42.280\nis, so we're TGL. I'll tell this real quick. I know this is lightning round. C\n\n986\n01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:44.640\neline was there as a\n\n987\n01:01:44.640 --> 01:01:48.740\nguest and I was interviewing her and I asked her the question, which song from\n\n988\n01:01:48.740 --> 01:01:49.920\nyour amazing catalog\n\n989\n01:01:49.920 --> 01:01:54.230\nbest represents your golf game? And she looked at me and started singing the\n\n990\n01:01:54.230 --> 01:01:55.360\nTitanic song and then\n\n991\n01:01:55.360 --> 01:01:59.450\nasked me to sing with her. I started singing with her. I actually know the\n\n992\n01:01:59.450 --> 01:02:00.720\nwords. Yes, David. I've\n\n993\n01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:05.100\ngot a lot of practice singing in the shower. And man, that thing was on every\n\n994\n01:02:05.100 --> 01:02:06.160\nentertainment\n\n995\n01:02:06.160 --> 01:02:14.030\ntonight. Good morning, America. It was everywhere near fire. Where? Come on,\n\n996\n01:02:14.030 --> 01:02:15.200\nyou do this to you. Where\n\n997\n01:02:15.200 --> 01:02:28.280\never you are. I believe that my ball will go on. You're not there. I'm coming\n\n998\n01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:29.360\nto Vegas with y'all.\n\n999\n01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:34.480\nI'm gonna come to Vegas for the residency. There you go. And I can't sing worth\n\n1000\n01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:35.200\na hoot.\n\n1001\n01:02:35.200 --> 01:02:40.000\nWell, you just demonstrated that. What's something you've been curious about\n\n1002\n01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:41.040\nlately that has nothing\n\n1003\n01:02:41.040 --> 01:02:48.240\nto do with work? I would say AI. I'm getting more curious about that and how it\n\n1004\n01:02:48.240 --> 01:02:49.680\ncould streamline\n\n1005\n01:02:49.680 --> 01:02:57.370\npieces of my life. But I'm trying to be a better journaler. I get up every\n\n1006\n01:02:57.370 --> 01:02:59.760\nmorning. I have a journal,\n\n1007\n01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:06.460\nI write my thoughts. I write my insecurities and things I want to be better at\n\n1008\n01:03:06.460 --> 01:03:07.760\ndoing as a father,\n\n1009\n01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:14.560\nas a husband, as a friend, as a professional. And so I think that that would be\n\n1010\n01:03:14.560 --> 01:03:16.240\nmy answer. Take\n\n1011\n01:03:16.240 --> 01:03:21.730\nthe time to be present and write your life. The one thing you do just for you\n\n1012\n01:03:21.730 --> 01:03:22.240\ngolf.\n\n1013\n01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:29.840\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear? Eric Church. What's\n\n1014\n01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:30.640\nsomething about you\n\n1015\n01:03:30.640 --> 01:03:39.280\nfew people would know? It takes about 20 seconds to do my hair. What's one of\n\n1016\n01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:40.320\nyour daily rituals,\n\n1017\n01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:44.580\nsomething that you never miss besides doing your journal? Prayer. Your Mount\n\n1018\n01:03:44.580 --> 01:03:46.960\nRushmore of interview\n\n1019\n01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:54.800\nsubjects. Saban, Tiger Woods, Dale Jr. Just because we've gotten so deep into\n\n1020\n01:03:54.800 --> 01:03:56.640\nthe sorrow of\n\n1021\n01:03:56.640 --> 01:04:01.540\nlosing his dad and having to carry an entire industry on his shoulders. And\n\n1022\n01:04:01.540 --> 01:04:03.360\nthen the fourth one,\n\n1023\n01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:09.150\nif you will indulge me and just let me tell a story. Sure. The fourth one is a\n\n1024\n01:04:09.150 --> 01:04:10.640\nyoung lady named\n\n1025\n01:04:10.640 --> 01:04:20.860\nOlivia Quigley. Olivia, I met in the summer of 2015. I was commissioned to\n\n1026\n01:04:20.860 --> 01:04:22.640\ncover the Special Olympics\n\n1027\n01:04:22.640 --> 01:04:28.670\nWorld Games in Los Angeles, California. And it was the first time the Special\n\n1028\n01:04:28.670 --> 01:04:30.160\nOlympics had ever been\n\n1029\n01:04:30.160 --> 01:04:39.940\nbroadcast on television that way. And we did it at ESPN. And my job was to\n\n1030\n01:04:39.940 --> 01:04:41.520\nembed myself with the\n\n1031\n01:04:41.520 --> 01:04:47.170\nUnited States teams, learn their stories and their journeys to the world games,\n\n1032\n01:04:47.170 --> 01:04:48.560\nand share that over\n\n1033\n01:04:48.560 --> 01:04:53.630\nthe two and a half weeks we would broadcast it on ESPN. Well, the first day I'm\n\n1034\n01:04:53.630 --> 01:04:54.880\nin LA for the games,\n\n1035\n01:04:55.600 --> 01:04:59.860\nI go to the University of California, Riverside, and I'm going to talk to the\n\n1036\n01:04:59.860 --> 01:05:02.080\ntrack team. So I\n\n1037\n01:05:02.080 --> 01:05:08.390\nwalk into this track stadium and the energy was overwhelming. It was palpable.\n\n1038\n01:05:08.390 --> 01:05:09.920\nThe joy and the spirit\n\n1039\n01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:15.920\nemanating from these athletes who'd been told their whole lives, you can't, you\n\n1040\n01:05:15.920 --> 01:05:16.560\n'll never,\n\n1041\n01:05:16.560 --> 01:05:22.480\ndon't try, you're not capable. These athletes at the Special Olympics World\n\n1042\n01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:23.760\nGames have intellectual\n\n1043\n01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:30.560\ndisabilities. So as I'm standing there witnessing their practice, I'm talking\n\n1044\n01:05:30.560 --> 01:05:31.520\nto the head coach of\n\n1045\n01:05:31.520 --> 01:05:36.180\nthe team, a lady named Bonnie Khan. She was from Wisconsin. And as I'm talking\n\n1046\n01:05:36.180 --> 01:05:36.880\nto Bonnie,\n\n1047\n01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:40.980\nI look over to my left and I see an athlete seated all alone on one of those\n\n1048\n01:05:40.980 --> 01:05:41.920\naluminum benches that\n\n1049\n01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:47.200\nyou would find on the sideline of a rural high school football stadium. And I'm\n\n1050\n01:05:47.200 --> 01:05:49.440\nlike, what's going on?\n\n1051\n01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:53.840\nWhat's going on over there? She goes, oh, that's Olivia. And my reporter in T\n\n1052\n01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:54.480\nana went up,\n\n1053\n01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:59.440\nso I'll be right back. I'm going to talk to her. So I sit down, right beside\n\n1054\n01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:00.160\nOlivia.\n\n1055\n01:06:00.160 --> 01:06:06.960\nShe's baldhead, has no hair, stretching her legs. And I said, hey, what are you\n\n1056\n01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:07.280\ndoing over\n\n1057\n01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:11.050\nhere? I'll buy yourself. She said, I'm just so tired. I said, what do you mean\n\n1058\n01:06:11.050 --> 01:06:12.480\nyou're tired?\n\n1059\n01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:17.650\nLook at this is incredible. What do you mean you're tired? She said, one word,\n\n1060\n01:06:17.650 --> 01:06:18.480\nchemotherapy.\n\n1061\n01:06:19.040 --> 01:06:27.040\nOlivia had been diagnosed with stage four breast cancer. And for five months\n\n1062\n01:06:27.040 --> 01:06:28.080\nhad undergone an\n\n1063\n01:06:28.080 --> 01:06:34.000\nexhaustive radiation and chemotherapy treatment regimen before she got the call\n\n1064\n01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:34.880\nthat she had\n\n1065\n01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:39.170\nqualified for world games. And so she picked up the phone. She called her onc\n\n1066\n01:06:39.170 --> 01:06:40.880\nologist and she said,\n\n1067\n01:06:40.880 --> 01:06:46.640\nI'm going to go to world games. And I'm going to show women all over the world\n\n1068\n01:06:46.640 --> 01:06:47.360\nwho are battling\n\n1069\n01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:52.900\nthis disease. What's possible? Well, I had lost my mother to breast cancer when\n\n1070\n01:06:52.900 --> 01:06:54.320\nI was 21. My mom\n\n1071\n01:06:54.320 --> 01:07:01.410\nwas 47. And so I was completely taken by Olivia. And we had this incredible\n\n1072\n01:07:01.410 --> 01:07:03.680\nconversation. And she\n\n1073\n01:07:03.680 --> 01:07:07.780\nhad this way of chasing your eyes with hers to make sure that you were\n\n1074\n01:07:07.780 --> 01:07:08.720\nlistening to her.\n\n1075\n01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:17.840\nWell, as we chatted, I learned that she had autism. She was adopted at three\n\n1076\n01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:19.120\nyears old from China\n\n1077\n01:07:19.120 --> 01:07:24.800\nby her parents, Dan and Judy Quigley in Wisconsin. They did not know when they\n\n1078\n01:07:24.800 --> 01:07:25.840\nadopted Olivia that\n\n1079\n01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:34.640\nshe had autism. Well, for Olivia, autism was a condition, not a definition. So\n\n1080\n01:07:34.640 --> 01:07:37.520\nI'm enamored with\n\n1081\n01:07:37.520 --> 01:07:42.200\nher. As I'm leaving the track stadium that day, she grabs me by the sleeve and\n\n1082\n01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:42.960\nshe says,\n\n1083\n01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:47.060\nMr. Marty, can you do me a favor? Can you please just tell everybody how happy\n\n1084\n01:07:47.060 --> 01:07:47.280\nI am?\n\n1085\n01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:54.480\nSaid you have my word. So you fast forward a few days. We're at the University\n\n1086\n01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.960\nof Southern\n\n1087\n01:07:54.960 --> 01:08:01.630\nCalifornia. Olivia gets in the blocks for the 100 meter sprint. Gun goes off.\n\n1088\n01:08:01.630 --> 01:08:02.560\nOlivia takes off\n\n1089\n01:08:02.560 --> 01:08:08.420\nrunning. She wins the 100 meter gold medal in the Special Olympics. World Games\n\n1090\n01:08:08.420 --> 01:08:09.200\ncollapses in\n\n1091\n01:08:09.200 --> 01:08:14.960\nexhaustion at the finish line. Three days later, she's the anchor leg of the\n\n1092\n01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:17.200\nfour by 100 team,\n\n1093\n01:08:17.200 --> 01:08:24.570\nrelay team. They too win the gold medal. So at this point, Olivia has become a\n\n1094\n01:08:24.570 --> 01:08:25.840\nglobal story.\n\n1095\n01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:30.600\nShe's everywhere. She's the face of these games. We've talked about her a lot.\n\n1096\n01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:31.360\nI interviewed her on\n\n1097\n01:08:31.360 --> 01:08:37.760\nthe opening ceremonies on ABC and the LA Coliseum. A beautiful spirit. Well,\n\n1098\n01:08:37.760 --> 01:08:38.560\nshe and I maintained\n\n1099\n01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:43.140\na relationship, David, for years. She would text me and she would say, \"Hey, I\n\n1100\n01:08:43.140 --> 01:08:44.560\nsee you here on my\n\n1101\n01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:51.240\nTV. Your tie doesn't match. Your hair looks funny.\" She was awesome. Well,\n\n1102\n01:08:51.240 --> 01:08:53.440\nunfortunately,\n\n1103\n01:08:53.440 --> 01:08:58.340\nthe cancer began to just continue to spread. Went to her spine, ultimately to\n\n1104\n01:08:58.340 --> 01:08:58.960\nher brain.\n\n1105\n01:08:59.920 --> 01:09:04.820\nShe was really struggling. Well, I come home from covering an LSU football game\n\n1106\n01:09:04.820 --> 01:09:05.520\nduring the fall.\n\n1107\n01:09:05.520 --> 01:09:10.400\nAnd I open up my mailbox. And inside my mailbox, there's one of those\n\n1108\n01:09:10.400 --> 01:09:17.520\nyellowish brown manila envelopes with the bubble wrap inside. So I tear open\n\n1109\n01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:18.480\nthis envelope.\n\n1110\n01:09:18.480 --> 01:09:24.090\nAnd inside, there are two items. There's a piece of stationary and a black\n\n1111\n01:09:24.090 --> 01:09:25.280\nvelvet box.\n\n1112\n01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:33.280\nThe stationary was a letter from Olivia's mother, Judy, informing me that,\n\n1113\n01:09:33.280 --> 01:09:37.920\nunfortunately, the cancer had spread to the point that it took her from us.\n\n1114\n01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:48.640\nBut that she was overwhelmed with gratitude of how ESPN and myself,\n\n1115\n01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:54.380\nhow we covered Olivia and treated her like a human being, treated her with\n\n1116\n01:09:54.380 --> 01:09:54.880\ndignity,\n\n1117\n01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:59.800\ntreated her with respect. And because of that, she was so infused with self-\n\n1118\n01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:00.240\nconfidence\n\n1119\n01:10:00.240 --> 01:10:04.580\nthat when they got home from the world games, she got a full-time job at the\n\n1120\n01:10:04.580 --> 01:10:05.520\nChildren's Hospital\n\n1121\n01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:09.670\nof Wisconsin. When doctors had told them she'd never have a job, she got her\n\n1122\n01:10:09.670 --> 01:10:10.720\nown apartment.\n\n1123\n01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:15.070\nWhen doctors told them she'd never live alone, she got a dog. She became a\n\n1124\n01:10:15.070 --> 01:10:17.360\nbrown belt in jujitsu\n\n1125\n01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:24.870\nbecause she was so self-infused with confidence from her experience at world\n\n1126\n01:10:24.870 --> 01:10:25.360\ngames.\n\n1127\n01:10:25.360 --> 01:10:33.040\nAnd at the very bottom of that piece of stationary, Judy wrote, \"Before Olivia\n\n1128\n01:10:33.040 --> 01:10:33.760\npassed,\n\n1129\n01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:38.160\nwe created something of a last will and testament.\" And within that document,\n\n1130\n01:10:38.160 --> 01:10:42.080\nOlivia stated that she wanted her special friend, which is what she called me,\n\n1131\n01:10:42.080 --> 01:10:47.680\nto have that black velvet box. You know, guess what was in the black velvet box\n\n1132\n01:10:47.680 --> 01:10:47.920\n?\n\n1133\n01:10:49.440 --> 01:10:54.800\nI know it was the gold medals. Her gold medal from the 100 meters in the\n\n1134\n01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:55.680\nSpecial Olympics\n\n1135\n01:10:55.680 --> 01:11:02.330\nWorld Games. Wow. And I have that matted and framed in my office in Charlotte,\n\n1136\n01:11:02.330 --> 01:11:02.880\nNorth Carolina\n\n1137\n01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:09.560\nright now to this day as a tangible reminder of the power of kindness and time.\n\n1138\n01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:10.080\nWell,\n\n1139\n01:11:10.080 --> 01:11:16.080\nwell, I'm ending my light year after that story. That's so powerful. That's\n\n1140\n01:11:16.080 --> 01:11:16.960\nsuch a great story.\n\n1141\n01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:20.000\nI know that was definitely, that wasn't like, that was a whole thunderstorm.\n\n1142\n01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:26.560\nThat was a humbling story. I carry her with me and I will for all my days.\n\n1143\n01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:32.850\nThat's great. Well, I just got a few more questions and we'll wrap this up and,\n\n1144\n01:11:32.850 --> 01:11:33.120\nyou know,\n\n1145\n01:11:33.120 --> 01:11:37.760\nthank you for sharing that. That's an incredible story and shows the impact\n\n1146\n01:11:37.760 --> 01:11:44.070\nof what one person can have by just being kind. Just take the time to listen to\n\n1147\n01:11:44.070 --> 01:11:44.560\nsomebody and\n\n1148\n01:11:44.560 --> 01:11:48.960\nend a builder relationship and to stay true. It's a great living testimony\n\n1149\n01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:57.040\nto the approach that's made you so successful. You know, you mentioned your\n\n1150\n01:11:57.040 --> 01:11:57.680\nwife,\n\n1151\n01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:03.280\nLaney, up front, you know, when you think about where you're at today, what's\n\n1152\n01:12:03.280 --> 01:12:04.240\nbeen the big role\n\n1153\n01:12:04.240 --> 01:12:08.880\nshe's played in your partnership? There's no way I could ever pay it enough\n\n1154\n01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:10.480\ngratitude,\n\n1155\n01:12:11.040 --> 01:12:19.920\nenough respect. She is my best friend. We've been married 26 years. She is my\n\n1156\n01:12:19.920 --> 01:12:21.280\ngreatest sounding\n\n1157\n01:12:21.280 --> 01:12:31.520\nboard. She has an intelligence both emotionally and intellectually that allows\n\n1158\n01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:32.640\nme to look at things\n\n1159\n01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:38.450\nfrom, through many different prisms, but her greatest attribute is grace. We\n\n1160\n01:12:38.450 --> 01:12:40.400\nmeet people who\n\n1161\n01:12:40.400 --> 01:12:44.500\nhave more or less who've done incredible things who are striving, but you just\n\n1162\n01:12:44.500 --> 01:12:45.600\ndon't run across\n\n1163\n01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:52.700\ninnate grace very often. And her willingness to evolve with me as a man is a\n\n1164\n01:12:52.700 --> 01:12:54.480\ngift that I could\n\n1165\n01:12:54.480 --> 01:12:59.940\nnever begin to repay because the man she married is not the man she's married\n\n1166\n01:12:59.940 --> 01:13:00.400\nto now.\n\n1167\n01:13:00.400 --> 01:13:07.070\nAnd her selfless approach to evolving with what I've become and continue to\n\n1168\n01:13:07.070 --> 01:13:07.200\nbecome\n\n1169\n01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:14.020\nis incredible beyond words. She's lived on an island a lot because in my\n\n1170\n01:13:14.020 --> 01:13:14.400\nbusiness,\n\n1171\n01:13:14.400 --> 01:13:21.440\nyou're on a lot of airplanes. And she's an incredible human being and I'm so,\n\n1172\n01:13:21.440 --> 01:13:26.800\nso grateful for her. That's great. You know, and, you know, last question here,\n\n1173\n01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:30.900\nwhat's one piece of advice you'd want to give to anybody that wants to be a\n\n1174\n01:13:30.900 --> 01:13:31.760\nbetter leader?\n\n1175\n01:13:33.600 --> 01:13:43.200\nKnow your process. Know how to take that process to inject a culture within\n\n1176\n01:13:43.200 --> 01:13:43.760\nyour team,\n\n1177\n01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:51.970\nwithin your company, within your tribe that is felt in every corner of the\n\n1178\n01:13:51.970 --> 01:13:53.440\nbusiness or\n\n1179\n01:13:53.440 --> 01:14:00.720\nevery corner of the unit, even if you're not present, as Doc Rivers told me in\n\n1180\n01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:01.360\nthe book,\n\n1181\n01:14:02.080 --> 01:14:07.120\nculture happens when we turn our backs. If you have to have a really difficult\n\n1182\n01:14:07.120 --> 01:14:07.840\nconversation\n\n1183\n01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:12.800\nwith your team or with an individual in your team, what that person is saying\n\n1184\n01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:13.840\nwhen that meeting is\n\n1185\n01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:20.520\nover tells you whether or not your culture is intact. If you give your team a\n\n1186\n01:14:20.520 --> 01:14:21.760\ndifficult task\n\n1187\n01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:27.600\nand they're all belly aching, then you got to fix your culture. If somebody in\n\n1188\n01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:28.000\nthat team\n\n1189\n01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:33.480\ndoesn't go, no, that's not how we operate, suck it up. We're going to do this.\n\n1190\n01:14:33.480 --> 01:14:35.040\nThat, I think,\n\n1191\n01:14:35.040 --> 01:14:44.960\nis imperative. Also, have some understanding or study about crisis management\n\n1192\n01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:46.560\nbecause if you're a\n\n1193\n01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:49.940\nleader, you're going to have to manage a crisis. And there is, there's no\n\n1194\n01:14:49.940 --> 01:14:50.880\nplaybook for them.\n\n1195\n01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:58.880\nBut when you're put in that position, can you be the lighthouse that guides\n\n1196\n01:14:58.880 --> 01:14:59.920\neveryone through\n\n1197\n01:14:59.920 --> 01:15:03.650\nthat crisis? I think about Greg Sankey in the Southeastern Conference through\n\n1198\n01:15:03.650 --> 01:15:05.360\nCOVID. There's\n\n1199\n01:15:05.360 --> 01:15:10.560\nno playbook for that, but he was incredible in the way that he led not just SEC\n\n1200\n01:15:10.560 --> 01:15:11.680\n, but college\n\n1201\n01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:22.170\nathletics through one of the greatest unknowns of our lifetimes. And again, I\n\n1202\n01:15:22.170 --> 01:15:24.240\n'll finish up with\n\n1203\n01:15:24.240 --> 01:15:30.160\nlisten, it's hard to do when you're the tip of the spear. When you're the\n\n1204\n01:15:30.160 --> 01:15:31.040\nperson that's pulled\n\n1205\n01:15:31.040 --> 01:15:37.120\nin every single direction and have oversight of every single sector or silo of\n\n1206\n01:15:37.120 --> 01:15:38.800\nthe people you're\n\n1207\n01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:44.480\nleading, but it is so important. When you call a meeting, listen, when you're\n\n1208\n01:15:44.480 --> 01:15:45.360\nin front of\n\n1209\n01:15:45.360 --> 01:15:52.720\nthe people that you have charged with excellence, try to learn from them too.\n\n1210\n01:15:52.720 --> 01:15:56.720\nAnd I'm taking all of\n\n1211\n01:15:56.720 --> 01:16:01.480\nthat that I just told you from all of those incredible leaders that were\n\n1212\n01:16:01.480 --> 01:16:03.280\nwilling to share their time\n\n1213\n01:16:03.280 --> 01:16:09.460\nwith me in that book. And Marty, I want to thank you very much for sharing your\n\n1214\n01:16:09.460 --> 01:16:10.080\ntime with me.\n\n1215\n01:16:10.080 --> 01:16:15.540\nIt's been very inspirational. And I appreciate just the stories that you've\n\n1216\n01:16:15.540 --> 01:16:16.480\ntold, the insights\n\n1217\n01:16:16.480 --> 01:16:19.860\nthat you've shared. And I know it's going to help everybody that listens to\n\n1218\n01:16:19.860 --> 01:16:20.480\nthis podcast\n\n1219\n01:16:20.480 --> 01:16:24.580\nbecome an even better leader. So thank you very much. I appreciate you. I'm so\n\n1220\n01:16:24.580 --> 01:16:25.520\ngrateful to get to\n\n1221\n01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:29.620\nspend this time with you. And I've learned so much from you through this\n\n1222\n01:16:29.620 --> 01:16:31.760\nplatform and what you guys\n\n1223\n01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:37.840\nare doing. It's like going to Wharton.\n\n1224\n01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:47.760\nDavid, I'm so glad we finally got Marty on the show. Even if he was reporting\n\n1225\n01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:48.640\nlive from his\n\n1226\n01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:53.520\nbrother-in-law's laundry room/converted office, that was awesome.\n\n1227\n01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:56.000\nThat was nice having to get rid of the tide and the dirty shorts.\n\n1228\n01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:03.220\nMan, that story about Olivia Quigley is going to stick with me for a long time.\n\n1229\n01:17:03.220 --> 01:17:03.760\nThat was really,\n\n1230\n01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:08.240\nreally sweet. Yeah, you know, the act of kindness that a human being can\n\n1231\n01:17:08.240 --> 01:17:08.720\nprovide\n\n1232\n01:17:08.720 --> 01:17:13.760\nis so incredible. And that is such a great story. And\n\n1233\n01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:20.850\nit's one of the most emotional stories I've heard in a long time. And, you know\n\n1234\n01:17:20.850 --> 01:17:21.120\n,\n\n1235\n01:17:21.120 --> 01:17:29.360\nthat just shows what the power of a human being has within their capacity.\n\n1236\n01:17:29.360 --> 01:17:33.620\nI love the way that Marty pulls these stories out from all the great people\n\n1237\n01:17:33.620 --> 01:17:34.880\nthat he gets to sit\n\n1238\n01:17:34.880 --> 01:17:37.930\ndown with. And I want to recap some of the things that just stood out to me\n\n1239\n01:17:37.930 --> 01:17:38.800\nfrom this episode,\n\n1240\n01:17:38.800 --> 01:17:43.760\nDavid. I love it when Marty said that excellence lives at the intersection of\n\n1241\n01:17:43.760 --> 01:17:45.120\npreparedness and\n\n1242\n01:17:45.120 --> 01:17:49.460\npassion. Obviously, that's something that he takes with him into his work. But\n\n1243\n01:17:49.460 --> 01:17:49.840\nhow does that\n\n1244\n01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:54.500\nland for you? Yeah, well, I think that they're kind of, they're totally linked\n\n1245\n01:17:54.500 --> 01:17:55.280\nin my mind.\n\n1246\n01:17:55.280 --> 01:18:01.200\nYou know, because you're usually passionate about something that you love. And\n\n1247\n01:18:01.200 --> 01:18:01.440\nbecause\n\n1248\n01:18:01.440 --> 01:18:04.880\nyou're passionate about something you love, you want to learn more about it.\n\n1249\n01:18:04.880 --> 01:18:06.240\nAnd because of that,\n\n1250\n01:18:06.240 --> 01:18:11.880\nyou do. And that makes you prepared. And so when you're passionate and prepared\n\n1251\n01:18:11.880 --> 01:18:12.080\n,\n\n1252\n01:18:12.080 --> 01:18:18.160\nI think you can perform at the very highest level. And, you know, I think that\n\n1253\n01:18:18.160 --> 01:18:18.960\n's what he was\n\n1254\n01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:22.080\nreally getting at there. And I love it. Obviously, I have to talk about how\n\n1255\n01:18:22.080 --> 01:18:23.120\nmuch Coach Saban has\n\n1256\n01:18:23.120 --> 01:18:26.610\nimpacted him, because though I've never interviewed nor been a colleague of\n\n1257\n01:18:26.610 --> 01:18:28.000\nCoach Saban, he has also\n\n1258\n01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:32.600\nimpacted me in my life as a Alabama fan. But I love when you asked him, you\n\n1259\n01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:33.600\nknow, what's something\n\n1260\n01:18:33.600 --> 01:18:38.720\nthat you've learned from the greatest leaders. And he said that basically, he\n\n1261\n01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:39.520\nthought that he\n\n1262\n01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:43.620\nprepared well until he met Coach Saban. And it actually reminded me of an\n\n1263\n01:18:43.620 --> 01:18:44.720\ninterview we did with\n\n1264\n01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:49.920\nJim Nance as well, who talks a lot about the importance of preparation, say a\n\n1265\n01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:50.240\nlittle bit\n\n1266\n01:18:50.240 --> 01:18:55.600\nmore about how important preparation is for leaders in the different scenarios\n\n1267\n01:18:55.600 --> 01:18:56.000\nthat they find\n\n1268\n01:18:56.000 --> 01:19:02.660\nthemselves in. How do you personally prepare? I think, I always say that the\n\n1269\n01:19:02.660 --> 01:19:03.600\nbest leaders have\n\n1270\n01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:10.270\nconfidence, but that confidence is rooted in confidence. The confidence comes\n\n1271\n01:19:10.270 --> 01:19:11.280\nfrom, you know,\n\n1272\n01:19:11.280 --> 01:19:16.450\nreally learning your trade. You know, I mean, Coach Saban did not become a good\n\n1273\n01:19:16.450 --> 01:19:17.200\nfootball coach\n\n1274\n01:19:17.200 --> 01:19:21.950\novernight. I mean, he learned his trade, and he was passionate about it. And it\n\n1275\n01:19:21.950 --> 01:19:23.040\ndrove him to\n\n1276\n01:19:23.040 --> 01:19:27.730\nkeep climbing that mountain as Marty was talking, never looking down, never\n\n1277\n01:19:27.730 --> 01:19:29.040\nbeing complacent,\n\n1278\n01:19:29.040 --> 01:19:33.390\nhaving a healthy dissatisfaction with the status quo, so that you continually\n\n1279\n01:19:33.390 --> 01:19:34.960\nget better and better.\n\n1280\n01:19:34.960 --> 01:19:41.270\nAnd, you know, I think that's how, in my life, I tried to be prepared. I tried\n\n1281\n01:19:41.270 --> 01:19:42.080\nto learn every\n\n1282\n01:19:42.080 --> 01:19:46.180\nsingle day that I could. I tried to get better every single day that I could.\n\n1283\n01:19:46.180 --> 01:19:47.120\nAnd I never really\n\n1284\n01:19:47.120 --> 01:19:54.190\nwas satisfied. You know, I always had, you know, this quench to get better\n\n1285\n01:19:54.190 --> 01:19:56.720\nevery single day. And\n\n1286\n01:19:56.720 --> 01:20:02.180\nI think that that that leads you into a mindset of being prepared to perform.\n\n1287\n01:20:02.180 --> 01:20:04.000\nAnd you can't perform\n\n1288\n01:20:04.000 --> 01:20:08.400\nwell if you're not prepared. I love all of the stories that Marty shared in\n\n1289\n01:20:08.400 --> 01:20:09.600\nthis episode. And\n\n1290\n01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:14.100\nit's clear that he approaches his craft, maybe differently than many other\n\n1291\n01:20:14.100 --> 01:20:15.280\njournalists he talks\n\n1292\n01:20:15.280 --> 01:20:20.410\nabout, you know, when he was in school, they said, never develop personal\n\n1293\n01:20:20.410 --> 01:20:21.840\nrelationships with the\n\n1294\n01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:24.840\nfolks that you report on. And he said that he just tossed that out the window.\n\n1295\n01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:25.600\nAnd that's really,\n\n1296\n01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:30.800\nyou know, what has set him apart in his career is that he focuses so much on\n\n1297\n01:20:30.800 --> 01:20:31.760\nspending the time\n\n1298\n01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:35.540\nto develop their relationship. And I love how he encapsulates the way that he\n\n1299\n01:20:35.540 --> 01:20:36.320\nviews that. He says\n\n1300\n01:20:36.320 --> 01:20:41.600\nthere's a difference between what the person is and who the person is. And the\n\n1301\n01:20:41.600 --> 01:20:43.120\nway that he approaches\n\n1302\n01:20:43.120 --> 01:20:47.220\ngetting to know people in relationships is that he focuses on the who, not the\n\n1303\n01:20:47.220 --> 01:20:47.840\nwhat.\n\n1304\n01:20:47.840 --> 01:20:52.960\nSay more about that concept. Yeah. Well, I think what he does is he digs into\n\n1305\n01:20:52.960 --> 01:20:54.480\nthe individual and he\n\n1306\n01:20:54.480 --> 01:21:00.160\nasks questions that are outside of how someone might define themselves. Rather\n\n1307\n01:21:00.160 --> 01:21:01.520\nthan being a\n\n1308\n01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:04.900\nregional vice president of a company, you learn that that person is really\n\n1309\n01:21:04.900 --> 01:21:07.360\nengaged in building\n\n1310\n01:21:07.360 --> 01:21:13.260\nrelationships and enabling others. You know, that's a much bigger thing than\n\n1311\n01:21:13.260 --> 01:21:14.640\njust the title that you\n\n1312\n01:21:14.640 --> 01:21:23.390\nyou might have. And so I think, you know, it's a classic Sam Walton phrase\n\n1313\n01:21:23.390 --> 01:21:24.480\nwhere, you know,\n\n1314\n01:21:24.480 --> 01:21:28.580\nno one will care about you unless you show that you care about them. And you\n\n1315\n01:21:28.580 --> 01:21:29.840\nlearn by learning\n\n1316\n01:21:29.840 --> 01:21:36.960\nabout somebody else outside of what they do in terms of their job description.\n\n1317\n01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:38.000\nI think you\n\n1318\n01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:42.480\nliterally show people that you care about them and that you're interested in\n\n1319\n01:21:42.480 --> 01:21:44.000\nthem and that you\n\n1320\n01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:48.410\nreally want to get them get to know them on a much deeper level. We talked\n\n1321\n01:21:48.410 --> 01:21:49.040\nabout this in the\n\n1322\n01:21:49.040 --> 01:21:53.300\nepisode with Bobby Long, how, you know, important relationships are. And\n\n1323\n01:21:53.300 --> 01:21:54.000\nsometimes, you know,\n\n1324\n01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:58.260\nthe concept of building relationships and networking can kind of not sit well\n\n1325\n01:21:58.260 --> 01:21:59.200\nwith some people just\n\n1326\n01:21:59.200 --> 01:22:02.790\nbecause it feels cheap and like you're trying to get something from the other\n\n1327\n01:22:02.790 --> 01:22:03.920\nperson. But\n\n1328\n01:22:03.920 --> 01:22:06.710\nit's really clear the way, you know, that Marty approaches building\n\n1329\n01:22:06.710 --> 01:22:08.160\nrelationship, taking the time\n\n1330\n01:22:08.160 --> 01:22:13.210\nand building that trust is really what allows him to approach his work\n\n1331\n01:22:13.210 --> 01:22:15.840\ndifferently and has been,\n\n1332\n01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:19.920\nyou know, the reason that he is as successful as he is in his job.\n\n1333\n01:22:19.920 --> 01:22:24.110\nYou know, Kola, one of the things that I think is very important was that he\n\n1334\n01:22:24.110 --> 01:22:25.280\nfelt that he could\n\n1335\n01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:29.380\nbuild these relationships and still hold people accountable. You know, in the\n\n1336\n01:22:29.380 --> 01:22:30.640\nclassic business world,\n\n1337\n01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:34.080\nyou know, a lot of times leaders think they have to have an emotional distance\n\n1338\n01:22:34.080 --> 01:22:34.400\nfrom the\n\n1339\n01:22:34.400 --> 01:22:37.680\npeople that they work with so that they can hold them accountable. I don't\n\n1340\n01:22:37.680 --> 01:22:38.640\nthink that's true. I\n\n1341\n01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:41.690\nthink you have to have courage. You know, what you have to have is the courage\n\n1342\n01:22:41.690 --> 01:22:42.320\nto hold people\n\n1343\n01:22:42.320 --> 01:22:46.420\naccountable. You have to have the courage to be vulnerable enough to get to\n\n1344\n01:22:46.420 --> 01:22:47.200\nknow people on a\n\n1345\n01:22:47.200 --> 01:22:50.660\nhuman level. And then you got to have the courage to hold people accountable\n\n1346\n01:22:50.660 --> 01:22:51.840\nwhether you happen to\n\n1347\n01:22:51.840 --> 01:22:55.680\nhave a great relationship with them on a personal level or not. I, you know,\n\n1348\n01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:56.480\nbut I always would\n\n1349\n01:22:56.480 --> 01:22:59.330\nmuch rather work with people I enjoyed being around and that I had a\n\n1350\n01:22:59.330 --> 01:23:00.640\nrelationship with versus\n\n1351\n01:23:00.640 --> 01:23:05.250\npeople that, you know, I didn't really care one way or the other, you know, and\n\n1352\n01:23:05.250 --> 01:23:05.840\nthat's the best\n\n1353\n01:23:05.840 --> 01:23:09.270\nof all worlds. I mean, if you can do business with people that you're friends\n\n1354\n01:23:09.270 --> 01:23:10.960\nwith, man, that's\n\n1355\n01:23:10.960 --> 01:23:15.770\nthat's Nirvana, you know, and I did business with a lot of friends and still do\n\n1356\n01:23:15.770 --> 01:23:16.880\nbusiness with a lot\n\n1357\n01:23:16.880 --> 01:23:21.360\nof friends. And I, but I still hold them accountable. And hopefully it comes\n\n1358\n01:23:21.360 --> 01:23:22.480\nright back at me. They\n\n1359\n01:23:22.480 --> 01:23:26.120\nhold me accountable too. Let's not forget that, you know, accountability works\n\n1360\n01:23:26.120 --> 01:23:26.640\nboth ways.\n\n1361\n01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:30.080\nAs we wrap this episode, David, I'm curious after that conversation with Marty,\n\n1362\n01:23:30.080 --> 01:23:30.400\nwhat's\n\n1363\n01:23:30.400 --> 01:23:32.790\nwhat's the main thing that's standing out for you that you're going to take\n\n1364\n01:23:32.790 --> 01:23:33.120\nwith you?\n\n1365\n01:23:33.120 --> 01:23:38.080\nWell, I have to tell you, I'm still kind of blown away by the Olivia Quigley\n\n1366\n01:23:38.080 --> 01:23:38.720\nstory,\n\n1367\n01:23:38.720 --> 01:23:44.180\nbecause you know, this special needs person who has cancer, the win's two gold\n\n1368\n01:23:44.180 --> 01:23:45.120\nbattles in the\n\n1369\n01:23:45.120 --> 01:23:49.520\nspecial Olympics, you know, I mean, that shows being something that I've always\n\n1370\n01:23:49.520 --> 01:23:50.320\nreally believed\n\n1371\n01:23:50.320 --> 01:23:57.840\nin all human beings is that you never really know what you're capable of. You\n\n1372\n01:23:57.840 --> 01:23:59.280\nnever know. I mean,\n\n1373\n01:23:59.280 --> 01:24:02.830\nand you know, I related that story because I've happened to have cancer twice.\n\n1374\n01:24:02.830 --> 01:24:03.440\nAnd I kind of had\n\n1375\n01:24:03.440 --> 01:24:06.820\nthe same attitude that I wasn't going to let this be. You know, obviously, when\n\n1376\n01:24:06.820 --> 01:24:08.320\n, when cancer takes\n\n1377\n01:24:08.320 --> 01:24:12.620\nover your body, your body, you know, there's nothing your attitude isn't going\n\n1378\n01:24:12.620 --> 01:24:13.600\nto change, you know,\n\n1379\n01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:17.760\njust isn't going to change it. It's just going to happen. But boy, while you're\n\n1380\n01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:18.480\nlive,\n\n1381\n01:24:18.480 --> 01:24:21.530\ngive it everything you got because you never know what you're capable of. And\n\n1382\n01:24:21.530 --> 01:24:22.080\nlook what you can\n\n1383\n01:24:22.080 --> 01:24:26.220\nachieve. And she definitely showed that. But you know, I think what did I take\n\n1384\n01:24:26.220 --> 01:24:27.280\naway beyond that?\n\n1385\n01:24:27.280 --> 01:24:33.570\nI think there's nothing like having that marriage of passion and preparedness.\n\n1386\n01:24:33.570 --> 01:24:34.560\nI think they need\n\n1387\n01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:38.040\nto be linked and you got to be passionate about what you do so that you really\n\n1388\n01:24:38.040 --> 01:24:38.960\ndo become totally\n\n1389\n01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:44.800\nprepared. It's so important for you to show up prepared, you know, and be ready\n\n1390\n01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:45.520\nbecause I loved\n\n1391\n01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:49.360\nhow Marty talked about it when you're when you're prepared, you can be present.\n\n1392\n01:24:49.360 --> 01:24:49.840\nAnd for me,\n\n1393\n01:24:49.840 --> 01:24:53.050\nit was really good insight about, hey, when you're interviewing somebody, don't\n\n1394\n01:24:53.050 --> 01:24:53.600\nbe looking down at\n\n1395\n01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:57.360\nthe paper or looking at the next question, you know, while somebody's giving\n\n1396\n01:24:57.360 --> 01:24:58.480\nyou the answer. I think\n\n1397\n01:24:58.480 --> 01:25:02.130\nI fall prey to that. I'm going to do a better job of getting better and better\n\n1398\n01:25:02.130 --> 01:25:02.800\nprepared and\n\n1399\n01:25:02.800 --> 01:25:07.850\neverything that I do. That was a great point. And hopefully I'm at least semi-\n\n1400\n01:25:07.850 --> 01:25:09.280\nprepared. But I think\n\n1401\n01:25:09.280 --> 01:25:13.440\nI could take my preparation level up and up a notch. And then I think if you\n\n1402\n01:25:13.440 --> 01:25:14.240\nreally want to\n\n1403\n01:25:14.240 --> 01:25:17.870\nget to know people know who they are, not what they are, you know, and really\n\n1404\n01:25:17.870 --> 01:25:19.200\nask questions that\n\n1405\n01:25:19.200 --> 01:25:24.590\nget you to get some true insights on what that person is all about. And there's\n\n1406\n01:25:24.590 --> 01:25:25.680\nnothing like\n\n1407\n01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:30.790\nworking with people that you have a relationship with and holding them\n\n1408\n01:25:30.790 --> 01:25:32.320\naccountable is still\n\n1409\n01:25:32.320 --> 01:25:36.460\na possibility. It still is something that you got to do. And, you know, they're\n\n1410\n01:25:36.460 --> 01:25:36.960\nnot mutually\n\n1411\n01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:42.480\nexclusive. You can, you know, build relationships and hold people accountable.\n\n1412\n01:25:42.480 --> 01:25:43.200\nAnd frankly, that\n\n1413\n01:25:43.200 --> 01:25:47.300\nmight be a great example of one plus one equals three. And you can have that\n\n1414\n01:25:47.300 --> 01:25:48.400\ngreat relationship\n\n1415\n01:25:48.400 --> 01:25:52.870\nand then hold people accountable one plus one indeed equals three. So it's a\n\n1416\n01:25:52.870 --> 01:25:54.160\nfun episode.\n\n1417\n01:25:54.160 --> 01:25:57.370\nSuch a fun episode. I'm certainly going to take a lot of these insights and\n\n1418\n01:25:57.370 --> 01:25:58.160\napply them to my life.\n\n1419\n01:25:58.160 --> 01:26:02.810\nAnd I'm excited for Marty to get back in the gear room as he set in the gear\n\n1420\n01:26:02.810 --> 01:26:03.440\nroom.\n\n1421\n01:26:03.440 --> 01:26:08.400\nWell, I will say this. He doesn't look like Brad Pitt or Matthew McConaughey.\n\n1422\n01:26:08.400 --> 01:26:12.500\nNor does he sound like Celine Dion. Yeah. And he's not that good a singer, but\n\n1423\n01:26:12.500 --> 01:26:13.520\nhe's a pretty good\n\n1424\n01:26:13.520 --> 01:26:18.280\njournalist, I would say. Well, David, thanks so much for a great episode of How\n\n1425\n01:26:18.280 --> 01:26:20.480\nLeaders Lead.\n\n1426\n01:26:20.480 --> 01:26:24.230\nAnd thank you, Marty Smith, for taking the time to be on the show. And thank\n\n1427\n01:26:24.230 --> 01:26:25.120\nyou, of course,\n\n1428\n01:26:25.120 --> 01:26:29.200\nour listeners, for tuning in. 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