[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_141":-5,"_142":-5,"_143":144,"_145":146,"_147":148},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/3436/dont-let-industry-norms-shape-how-you-build","id",3436,"title","Don’t let industry norms shape how you build","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.740\nWe don't have to act like the biggest, most scaled companies in the world and\n\n2\n00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:06.880\nif I were\n\n3\n00:00:06.880 --> 00:00:11.720\nsitting at Nike and a brand like municipal popped up or let's go back, a brand\n\n4\n00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:12.560\nlike on running\n\n5\n00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:17.590\npopped up or brand like Hoka, I would love it if I were sitting in that in my\n\n6\n00:00:17.590 --> 00:00:19.280\nCEO suite.\n\n7\n00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:24.160\nMy C suite and someone came in and said, \"Hey, guess what? There's a new brand\n\n8\n00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:24.800\nthat popped up.\n\n9\n00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:28.810\nThey look pretty hot and they're trying to organize and structure themselves\n\n10\n00:00:28.810 --> 00:00:29.680\nexactly like us.\n\n11\n00:00:29.680 --> 00:00:34.480\nI would be ecstatic to hear that as a competitor.\" If somebody came in and said\n\n12\n00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:34.480\n,\n\n13\n00:00:34.480 --> 00:00:38.480\n\"Hey, guess what boss? There's a new brand. It's hot. I've looked at what they\n\n14\n00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:38.720\n're doing.\n\n15\n00:00:38.720 --> 00:00:43.160\nThey don't do anything like we do. I would be very, very scared.\" And so I\n\n16\n00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:44.000\nthink that's what\n\n17\n00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:49.740\nwe've tried to adopt here is more of that type of spirit is let's think of the\n\n18\n00:00:49.740 --> 00:00:50.640\nend result that\n\n19\n00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:57.280\nwe're trying to create and let's try to create a demand system, if you will,\n\n20\n00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:58.400\nthat supports that\n\n21\n00:00:58.400 --> 00:01:01.180\ninstead of trying to structure ourselves based on what we've known.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",1452890,"end_time",1514149,"keywords","Product, product development, Nike, startup, competition, competitor, agile, scale","slug","dont-let-industry-norms-shape-how-you-build","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","k4vsEr2b009xsS01ZABVnTA3ueTSIeBgbrsuvCrS00V4jo","mux_asset_id","XFb025L00byYqfaC01YHUBcIxyGqG3LV6CY2bE02i9jzS9M","leader_id",294,"episode_id",443,"updated_at","2026-08-21T18:55:00.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/3436/dont-let-industry-norms-shape-how-you-build","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_104":105,"_106":107,"_108":109,"_25":110,"_111":112,"_61":113,"_58":113,"_114":115,"_68":116,"_39":117,"_118":119,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_120":121,"_91":122,"_44":123,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_46":-5,"_128":129,"_130":131,"_95":132,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":-5,"_58":59,"_60":-5,"_61":59,"_62":-5,"_63":64,"_65":66,"_67":-5,"_68":-5,"_69":70,"_71":72,"_73":74,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":76,"_43":-5,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":82,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_87":88,"_89":90,"_91":-5,"_46":-5,"_92":93,"_94":-5,"_95":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Bet on yourself","bet-on-yourself","Want to build a career and a life you really love? You’ve got to make a big bet – not on a company or an idea – but on yourself.","summary","

As a leader, you take chances all the time. On big ideas. On new hires. On financial investments.

But when was the last time you bet on yourself?

That’s what Harry Arnett did when he co-founded the golf sportswear brand MUNICIPAL along with Mark Wahlberg. After years of success running marketing at Callaway, Harry realized it was time to find a new challenge – something that would help him grow into the person he knew he could be.

In this candid conversation, Harry breaks down what it really means to bet on yourself: the fear, the risk, and ultimately, what it takes to choose growth over comfort.

This is episode is for you if you:

Have ever thought about leaving a comfortable job to start something new
Want to know the trick to good marketing (hint: it doesn’t involve marketing)
Are asking big questions about work, life, and integration
Don’t want your functional expertise to limit your next career move

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.680\nHello friends, and welcome to another episode of How Leaders Lead with David\n\n2\n00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:05.040\nNovak. Today's guest is\n\n3\n00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:10.240\nHarry Arnett. He's the co-founder and CEO of Municipal, the Sport Utility Gear\n\n4\n00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:10.960\nbrand that he\n\n5\n00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:15.440\nlaunched with Mark Wahlberg in 2020, and they've built this brand from nothing\n\n6\n00:00:15.440 --> 00:00:17.600\ninto a national brand.\n\n7\n00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:21.860\nBefore that, Harry spent 14 years in the golf world, including seven years\n\n8\n00:00:21.860 --> 00:00:22.400\nleading marketing\n\n9\n00:00:22.400 --> 00:00:26.880\nat Callaway Golf, where he helped turn it into one of the most respected brands\n\n10\n00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:27.760\nin sports.\n\n11\n00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:31.120\nIn today's episode, you're going to learn why the best brands and the best\n\n12\n00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:31.680\nleaders\n\n13\n00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:36.710\ndon't just sell products, they inspire people to bet on themselves. Enjoy this\n\n14\n00:00:36.710 --> 00:00:37.360\nconversation with\n\n15\n00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:39.680\nDavid and Harry, and I'll see you at the debrief.\n\n16\n00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:49.760\nYou know, you started municipal with Mark Wahlberg, who's famously\n\n17\n00:00:49.760 --> 00:00:55.520\nknown for working out at 4 a.m. in the morning, so I got to ask you, what's the\n\n18\n00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:56.720\nearliest he's ever\n\n19\n00:00:56.720 --> 00:01:01.440\ncalled you about something in business? He doesn't have the normal clock that\n\n20\n00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:02.480\nyou and I have, David,\n\n21\n00:01:02.480 --> 00:01:06.160\nso I've heard from him at 2 a.m., I've heard from at 1 a.m., I've heard from\n\n22\n00:01:06.160 --> 00:01:07.040\nhim at 10 p.m.,\n\n23\n00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:11.040\nif the thing that I think is really cool about him is he keeps that schedule no\n\n24\n00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:11.680\nmatter what. So,\n\n25\n00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:17.600\nif he flies to Australia, for example, and that's like 11 hours behind, but\n\n26\n00:01:17.600 --> 00:01:19.120\ntomorrow or whatever,\n\n27\n00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:24.160\nhe stays on that same schedule, and that's honestly one of the things I think\n\n28\n00:01:24.160 --> 00:01:25.120\nthat inspired\n\n29\n00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:29.820\nme to want to do municipal was not necessarily Mark himself and the celebrity\n\n30\n00:01:29.820 --> 00:01:30.960\naspect of it, but\n\n31\n00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:38.080\nhow he integrates his life into a system that makes the most sense for him for\n\n32\n00:01:38.080 --> 00:01:39.440\nhis peace and\n\n33\n00:01:39.440 --> 00:01:42.800\nhow grounded he is and how centered he is, that ultimately leads to his\n\n34\n00:01:42.800 --> 00:01:44.160\nhappiness and his success,\n\n35\n00:01:44.160 --> 00:01:45.760\nand I just found that very inspiring.\n\n36\n00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:50.580\nWell, you were always in good shape when, since I've known you, and now you\n\n37\n00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:51.440\nlook like you're really\n\n38\n00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:56.960\nlike leaning mean. Does he have you on his program? He's got the whip out,\n\n39\n00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:59.040\nDavid, for him. No,\n\n40\n00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:03.520\nyou know, it's funny. I think you get to a certain age and you start to realize\n\n41\n00:02:03.520 --> 00:02:04.640\nhow important\n\n42\n00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:09.120\nbeing healthy is, and Mark didn't make this up, but he told me this early. He\n\n43\n00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:10.000\nsaid, \"You got\n\n44\n00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.880\n100 problems, and if one of them is not health, you got 100 problems. If you\n\n45\n00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:14.720\ngot 100 problems,\n\n46\n00:02:14.720 --> 00:02:18.720\nand one of them is health, you have one problem, brother.\" And so, I really had\n\n47\n00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:19.680\ntaken that to heart\n\n48\n00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:25.840\nto understand that being fit and having a routine is really part of, keeps my\n\n49\n00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:27.040\nmental health,\n\n50\n00:02:27.040 --> 00:02:31.860\nwhere it needs to be for one, but it also leads to my success and happiness at\n\n51\n00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:32.880\nhome,\n\n52\n00:02:32.880 --> 00:02:36.160\nand certainly in the stresses that these kinds of jobs bring us.\n\n53\n00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:41.440\nWell, that's great. You've always been one of the best consumer thinkers that I\n\n54\n00:02:41.440 --> 00:02:41.600\nknew,\n\n55\n00:02:41.600 --> 00:02:46.270\none of the best marketing people that I've ever known. And when we met, like\n\n56\n00:02:46.270 --> 00:02:47.040\nyou say,\n\n57\n00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:53.150\nover a decade ago, you know, you were running marketing for Callaway. What was\n\n58\n00:02:53.150 --> 00:02:53.920\nit really that\n\n59\n00:02:53.920 --> 00:03:01.210\nconvinced you that it was time to get involved in the startup and do it with\n\n60\n00:03:01.210 --> 00:03:03.120\nMark and make a bet\n\n61\n00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:08.480\non yourself? It really had nothing to do with leaving Callaway because that was\n\n62\n00:03:08.480 --> 00:03:09.200\na place I really\n\n63\n00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:14.560\nloved. I loved the people that I worked with. I loved the work. I loved my boss\n\n64\n00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:15.200\nquite a bit,\n\n65\n00:03:15.200 --> 00:03:21.470\ninspirational leader, really strategic thinker, but I went to visit my dad\n\n66\n00:03:21.470 --> 00:03:23.280\nabout a year before\n\n67\n00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:27.760\nI left, and my dad, unfortunately, was suffering from dementia, and he had good\n\n68\n00:03:27.760 --> 00:03:28.560\ndays, bad days,\n\n69\n00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:34.680\nand one morning, David, he had acuity, which if anybody that's ever dealt with\n\n70\n00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:35.760\nloved ones that\n\n71\n00:03:35.760 --> 00:03:41.360\nhave dementia, when you get those days where there's some clear thinking, you\n\n72\n00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:43.120\nreally hold them\n\n73\n00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:47.500\nand treasure them. And my dad had asked me how things were going, which he\n\n74\n00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:48.960\nnever really did before,\n\n75\n00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:53.570\nprofessionally, how things go in at work. And I had just come back from a sales\n\n76\n00:03:53.570 --> 00:03:55.360\nmeeting in Germany,\n\n77\n00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:00.560\nand I used to love those. I love the atmosphere. I love the energy. I love\n\n78\n00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:02.560\npresenting. I loved\n\n79\n00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:08.180\ninspiring. And for whatever reason, in my new role at Callaway, I really felt\n\n80\n00:04:08.180 --> 00:04:09.680\nlike I was on the outside\n\n81\n00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:14.160\nwatching an event unfold in front of me that I wasn't really even a part of.\n\n82\n00:04:14.160 --> 00:04:15.440\nAnd so I answered\n\n83\n00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:20.160\nmy dad that day. I said, \"Dad, not that great. I'm really just not that happy.\"\n\n84\n00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:21.760\nAnd my dad said,\n\n85\n00:04:21.760 --> 00:04:28.030\n\"You know, that's what happens is sometimes the thing that you're a part of\n\n86\n00:04:28.030 --> 00:04:29.040\nabsorbs you in and\n\n87\n00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:34.610\nyou become part of that thing.\" And he wasn't even saying it cynically, or he\n\n88\n00:04:34.610 --> 00:04:36.480\njust was kind of saying\n\n89\n00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:42.000\nit matter of faculty. And I guess I realized that he was right that even though\n\n90\n00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.360\nmy career had grown\n\n91\n00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:49.570\nin ways that I could not have imagined, and I had these roles that I really\n\n92\n00:04:49.570 --> 00:04:51.440\nalways aspire to,\n\n93\n00:04:51.440 --> 00:04:57.200\nsomewhere along the way, I just felt like I was smaller. And so I questioned\n\n94\n00:04:57.200 --> 00:04:58.640\nthat as I left my dad\n\n95\n00:04:58.640 --> 00:05:03.120\nand thought, \"What is it about the environment I'm in that's not really\n\n96\n00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.800\nallowing me to become the\n\n97\n00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:11.970\nfully the fully realized version of myself?\" And it was then that I realized I\n\n98\n00:05:11.970 --> 00:05:13.680\nneeded to build a\n\n99\n00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:18.960\ndifferent construct to help me grow into the kind of person I wanted to be. And\n\n100\n00:05:18.960 --> 00:05:20.160\nyes, there was\n\n101\n00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:25.400\ndefinitely a business proposition there that I felt very strongly about. But I\n\n102\n00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:26.400\nalso felt like\n\n103\n00:05:26.400 --> 00:05:32.080\nthat building municipal and building the environment ultimately was going to\n\n104\n00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:33.440\nhelp me build\n\n105\n00:05:33.440 --> 00:05:38.160\nthe version of myself that I wanted to be. That's fantastic. And tell us about\n\n106\n00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:38.720\nmunicipal.\n\n107\n00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:47.200\nFine hoodies. Yeah, absolutely. That's why I put it on. But tell us about\n\n108\n00:05:47.200 --> 00:05:48.320\nmunicipal today, Harry.\n\n109\n00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:55.680\nAnd in so doing, tell us what you mean by sports utility gear. First of all,\n\n110\n00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:56.400\nyou're sort of a\n\n111\n00:05:56.400 --> 00:06:00.960\npart of the story, whether you even know it or not. But the way I even know you\n\n112\n00:06:00.960 --> 00:06:01.920\nis, and I still\n\n113\n00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:08.390\ncontend that the title of your book, Accidental CEO, I still file a formal\n\n114\n00:06:08.390 --> 00:06:10.320\nprotest about that,\n\n115\n00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:15.140\nDavid. So tell your publisher and your editor that is completely misleading\n\n116\n00:06:15.140 --> 00:06:16.480\nbecause when I read\n\n117\n00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.710\nthat book, there was nothing, there was nothing accidental about the decisions\n\n118\n00:06:20.710 --> 00:06:21.920\nyou made. Everything\n\n119\n00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:28.130\nwas intentional, maybe not the way that it ended, but the intent was there. And\n\n120\n00:06:28.130 --> 00:06:29.760\nyou led an integrated\n\n121\n00:06:29.760 --> 00:06:35.040\nlife that every piece of your life fit together, family, faith, leadership,\n\n122\n00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:36.640\npassions. Obviously,\n\n123\n00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:42.790\nI was in golf. And I thought to myself, how can somebody who has so many\n\n124\n00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:44.640\ndemands in his life\n\n125\n00:06:44.640 --> 00:06:50.480\nstill be a fantastic golfer? And the answer was integration. You had figured\n\n126\n00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:51.760\nout a way to integrate\n\n127\n00:06:51.760 --> 00:06:57.900\nyour life. And I really started to be fascinated by people like you that had a\n\n128\n00:06:57.900 --> 00:06:59.680\nway and almost a\n\n129\n00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:04.710\nconstruct of the way they architected their life that ultimately led to success\n\n130\n00:07:04.710 --> 00:07:05.760\nand happiness and\n\n131\n00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:13.350\njoy. And it's just been in my really a driving force of my own curiosity for 15\n\n132\n00:07:13.350 --> 00:07:14.880\nyears now. And\n\n133\n00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:19.360\nultimately, when we started municipal, we really thought of that kind of\n\n134\n00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:20.560\nmindset as a blueprint.\n\n135\n00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.910\nMark lives it that way too. I mentioned the people that were inspiring me\n\n136\n00:07:24.910 --> 00:07:25.920\nwithin the game of golf,\n\n137\n00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:30.400\nrarely were the players that were playing at the highest level. Notice respect,\n\n138\n00:07:30.400 --> 00:07:30.800\nDavid, your\n\n139\n00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:36.000\nlevel is high too. But I'm talking about the tour players. Quite the opposite.\n\n140\n00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.440\nQuite the opposite\n\n141\n00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:43.360\nthat the ones that had sort of a superficial viewpoint on integration, meaning\n\n142\n00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.640\nit's all oriented\n\n143\n00:07:44.640 --> 00:07:47.840\naround performance on the course. Those were the usually the ones that didn't\n\n144\n00:07:47.840 --> 00:07:49.360\nhave sustainability.\n\n145\n00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:54.080\nIf you think about the real the real icons of the game from Arnold Palmer to\n\n146\n00:07:54.080 --> 00:07:55.280\nJack Nicholas to\n\n147\n00:07:55.280 --> 00:08:01.490\nothers, it's they had a deeper integration and how they spent their time, how\n\n148\n00:08:01.490 --> 00:08:02.000\nthey built their\n\n149\n00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:07.400\nschedules, how they how they engaged with with the stakeholders that were part\n\n150\n00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:08.880\nof their success.\n\n151\n00:08:08.880 --> 00:08:13.750\nAnd so we really wanted municipal to be a brand that that met that to our\n\n152\n00:08:13.750 --> 00:08:15.520\ncustomer to our consumer\n\n153\n00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:19.370\nthat ultimately, and you asked like about brands, you know, to me brands have\n\n154\n00:08:19.370 --> 00:08:20.560\nalways just been about\n\n155\n00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:25.040\nidentity. And when you represent a brand, when you are municipal, as you are\n\n156\n00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:26.080\ntoday, it's really\n\n157\n00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:30.900\nsaying something about you. And we want people, we wanted people when we began\n\n158\n00:08:30.900 --> 00:08:31.760\nthis brand, when they\n\n159\n00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:35.550\nput municipal on their body, that it wasn't saying anything about municipal,\n\n160\n00:08:35.550 --> 00:08:36.720\nsaying something about\n\n161\n00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.490\nthemselves. And what was that? It is something it is somebody who wears our\n\n162\n00:08:40.490 --> 00:08:41.600\nstuff that obviously\n\n163\n00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.920\nrecognizes quality, obviously recognizes performance, obviously values,\n\n164\n00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:48.960\nversatility. But ultimately,\n\n165\n00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.720\nthere's somebody that's pursuing a better version of themselves. And that's the\n\n166\n00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:53.520\nidentity that we\n\n167\n00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:57.840\nwanted municipal to stand for. And here we are, we're still at it. We've made,\n\n168\n00:08:57.840 --> 00:08:59.040\nwe've made probably\n\n169\n00:08:59.040 --> 00:09:02.920\nas many mistakes as we've we've done good things, maybe one more good thing\n\n170\n00:09:02.920 --> 00:09:04.000\nthan one mistake. That's\n\n171\n00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:08.930\nwhy we're still around. And but people are responding to it because they see\n\n172\n00:09:08.930 --> 00:09:09.760\nthe quality,\n\n173\n00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:14.470\nbut also, as I said, when they put municipal on, we really feel like they're\n\n174\n00:09:14.470 --> 00:09:15.600\nfeeling that they're\n\n175\n00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.320\na different person wearing our stuff. Sports utility gears, kind of how you\n\n176\n00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:21.840\ndefine your category. And\n\n177\n00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:26.130\nand I got to ask you this one, you know, I really love your clothes. I mean, I,\n\n178\n00:09:26.130 --> 00:09:27.600\nI love your entire\n\n179\n00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:32.990\nline. And you know, it's been really great. And now I understand you're opening\n\n180\n00:09:32.990 --> 00:09:34.320\ngyms, you know,\n\n181\n00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:39.520\nhow in the world does a clothing company end up in the gym business? I know\n\n182\n00:09:39.520 --> 00:09:40.640\nMark Wahlberg is,\n\n183\n00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:45.920\nyou know, workaholic as it relates to his body and physical capability. But\n\n184\n00:09:45.920 --> 00:09:47.200\nthat's, that seems to be\n\n185\n00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.900\na bit of a stretch. A little bit of a stretch, but it is, if you think of us as\n\n186\n00:09:51.900 --> 00:09:52.880\njust an apparel\n\n187\n00:09:52.880 --> 00:09:56.720\nand footwear, and we've, we've never really thought of ourselves that way. And\n\n188\n00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:57.680\nI personally wouldn't\n\n189\n00:09:57.680 --> 00:10:02.880\nhave left a role I loved and an industry I love to just start a footwear and a\n\n190\n00:10:02.880 --> 00:10:04.560\napparel company. And\n\n191\n00:10:04.560 --> 00:10:10.660\nand we view the gym as a natural extension of the lifestyle that you want to be\n\n192\n00:10:10.660 --> 00:10:11.520\naround other\n\n193\n00:10:11.520 --> 00:10:15.120\npeople that are getting after it. You want to be around other people that care\n\n194\n00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:16.080\nabout their physical\n\n195\n00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:19.700\nfitness and their wellness. And you want to be a part of something bigger than\n\n196\n00:10:19.700 --> 00:10:20.560\nyourself as a\n\n197\n00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:25.380\ncommunity. There's no better way to do that in the fitness world than a\n\n198\n00:10:25.380 --> 00:10:27.280\nphysical embodiment of that.\n\n199\n00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:31.590\nAnd we felt like we had a point of view that was quite different. And I think\n\n200\n00:10:31.590 --> 00:10:33.680\nthat we have a\n\n201\n00:10:33.680 --> 00:10:37.140\nculture here, David, that we want to encourage risk taking. There's no bigger\n\n202\n00:10:37.140 --> 00:10:37.840\nrisk taker than\n\n203\n00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:40.910\nWahlberg. Wahlberg is like, why would we wait around for someone else to build\n\n204\n00:10:40.910 --> 00:10:41.600\nthe gym that we\n\n205\n00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.420\nknow needs to exist? Let's do it ourselves. What's going to be different about\n\n206\n00:10:45.420 --> 00:10:46.240\nyour gym? And how\n\n207\n00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:49.800\nmany, how many do you have or how many you plan on having? Well, we'll have, we\n\n208\n00:10:49.800 --> 00:10:50.640\n'll start with one.\n\n209\n00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:53.520\nSo we're going to follow your advice and let's not get out over our skis here\n\n210\n00:10:53.520 --> 00:10:54.240\ntoo quickly. We'll\n\n211\n00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.710\nsee if it works. But we're going to start with one. It's going to be in Vegas\n\n212\n00:10:58.710 --> 00:10:59.600\nwhere Mark lives.\n\n213\n00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:04.140\nIt's important to us to have him to have the access to see it, live it, breathe\n\n214\n00:11:04.140 --> 00:11:04.800\nit, and really\n\n215\n00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:10.900\nthink of it as a soup to nuts from, from obviously the physical, the equipment\n\n216\n00:11:10.900 --> 00:11:12.000\nyou need, but also\n\n217\n00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:19.280\nthe recovery aspects of it to really think of it kind of mind, body and soul on\n\n218\n00:11:19.280 --> 00:11:20.800\nfull body fitness.\n\n219\n00:11:20.800 --> 00:11:26.800\nWe also have a, a cafe in there for, for people to, to fuel up, to get extra\n\n220\n00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:27.920\ncaffeinated protein\n\n221\n00:11:27.920 --> 00:11:31.040\nshakes and the whole nine yards. And then obviously there's a municipal\n\n222\n00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:32.320\nboutique inside too. So it's\n\n223\n00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:36.670\nreally kind of like I said, it's that physical embodiment of the, the physical\n\n224\n00:11:36.670 --> 00:11:37.200\naspect of what\n\n225\n00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.720\nour brand's all about. I'm excited about it. You can imagine as somebody that\n\n226\n00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:41.680\njust is obsessed\n\n227\n00:11:41.680 --> 00:11:45.170\nwith the consumer. I can't wait to see people's reaction to it. And like I said\n\n228\n00:11:45.170 --> 00:11:46.400\n, if it works,\n\n229\n00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:50.880\nwe could see these all over the country. Yeah. Well, good, good luck to you on\n\n230\n00:11:50.880 --> 00:11:51.680\nthat. You know,\n\n231\n00:11:51.680 --> 00:11:56.030\nI have to admit before we go on, you shared with me the idea that you were\n\n232\n00:11:56.030 --> 00:11:56.800\ngoing to go to this\n\n233\n00:11:56.800 --> 00:12:03.600\ncompany, this brand, municipal and I go municipal. I mean, come on, you got to\n\n234\n00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:04.480\ncome up with a better\n\n235\n00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:07.840\nname than that. It sounds like some garbage collector company or something. You\n\n236\n00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:08.960\nknow, and you,\n\n237\n00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.640\nyou told me you thought I was full of it and you ended up end up being right.\n\n238\n00:12:12.640 --> 00:12:13.520\nBecause, you know,\n\n239\n00:12:13.520 --> 00:12:17.490\nI mentioned the other day I was going to be doing a podcast with you and they\n\n240\n00:12:17.490 --> 00:12:18.400\ngo, whoa,\n\n241\n00:12:18.400 --> 00:12:23.110\nreally? You got him to come on the show and people know municipal and it's\n\n242\n00:12:23.110 --> 00:12:24.720\ncatching on. You know,\n\n243\n00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:29.520\nwhat was it that you felt was made municipal a great brand name per se?\n\n244\n00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:34.160\nFirst of all, I love that it's thought provoking. So, and I also like things\n\n245\n00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:35.040\nthat are somewhat of\n\n246\n00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:39.360\na contradiction. So when you think of the name municipal, you have a certain,\n\n247\n00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:40.880\nit connotes certain\n\n248\n00:12:40.880 --> 00:12:46.000\nthings. It connotes community. It connotes access. It also has a little bit of\n\n249\n00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:47.760\na openness to it as\n\n250\n00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:54.120\nfar as people going to municipal courts, municipal golf courses, municipal\n\n251\n00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:56.000\npools. So just if you're\n\n252\n00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.470\nwilling and able and you have a love, you have access. So we really like that.\n\n253\n00:13:00.470 --> 00:13:02.240\nAnd we also loved,\n\n254\n00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:08.240\nI loved personally that it had, it meant something. It wasn't a made up word.\n\n255\n00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:09.600\nIt wasn't a made up name.\n\n256\n00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.880\nI remember actually, we were sitting in a, in your living room, you're like,\n\n257\n00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:13.120\nyou know,\n\n258\n00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:17.840\nspool, that's not a great name. And I resisted the urge saying, I mean, you\n\n259\n00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:18.720\nknow, people probably\n\n260\n00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:23.360\nthought clear Pepsi was not such a great idea either, but it wasn't. It wasn't.\n\n261\n00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:23.360\nIt wasn't.\n\n262\n00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:29.040\nIt wasn't. It wasn't. Okay, bad examples. No, that's a good examples right\n\n263\n00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:29.520\nthere. I've\n\n264\n00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:32.910\nwouldn't have been wrong, you know, but I love, I love it when you talk about\n\n265\n00:13:32.910 --> 00:13:33.840\nit. And by the way,\n\n266\n00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:38.080\nI think your, your vision and that you had and what's happening with the brand\n\n267\n00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:39.120\nis, is exactly\n\n268\n00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.880\nlike that. And well, Harry, let's go back a little bit. What was it like\n\n269\n00:13:42.880 --> 00:13:45.680\nstarting a kind of business\n\n270\n00:13:45.680 --> 00:13:50.210\nthat you'd never run before? I mean, you'd never had any real experience in the\n\n271\n00:13:50.210 --> 00:13:50.960\napparel,\n\n272\n00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:55.780\nsports utility business, or even a broader, let's call it sports world beyond\n\n273\n00:13:55.780 --> 00:13:56.320\ngolf?\n\n274\n00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:03.680\nI learned really early that building a company\n\n275\n00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:12.660\nends up being a personal development exercise. Even more than it is a business\n\n276\n00:14:12.660 --> 00:14:14.080\nexercise. So,\n\n277\n00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:21.600\nand I think being a founder for sure is, is such a mind-bend because it really\n\n278\n00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:22.720\nmakes you think of\n\n279\n00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:30.320\nthings differently. The old construct of, okay, you're pretty smart, you got\n\n280\n00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:31.200\nsome horsepower,\n\n281\n00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:40.630\nyou work hard, you show a degree of competence, someone recognizes that. Intern\n\n282\n00:14:40.630 --> 00:14:42.560\nally, they promote\n\n283\n00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:46.800\nyou, you get more responsibility, you get more compensation onward and upward.\n\n284\n00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:47.360\nAnd before you\n\n285\n00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:56.490\nknow it, you're at a certain level. And that's not at all the construct as a\n\n286\n00:14:56.490 --> 00:14:56.880\nfounder when you're\n\n287\n00:14:56.880 --> 00:15:03.920\nbuilding something. It's actually quite different. You start to think less\n\n288\n00:15:03.920 --> 00:15:04.960\nabout authority,\n\n289\n00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:12.960\nless about control, and you start thinking way more about leverage and\n\n290\n00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:15.680\nresponsibility and impact.\n\n291\n00:15:15.680 --> 00:15:23.590\nAnd I think that to answer your question directly, I thought I knew certain\n\n292\n00:15:23.590 --> 00:15:24.720\nthings,\n\n293\n00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:29.960\nbut then when I got into it, I realized my job really wasn't to be the answer\n\n294\n00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:31.360\nperson. My job\n\n295\n00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:36.390\nwas to hire experts and create an environment where those people believed in\n\n296\n00:15:36.390 --> 00:15:37.840\nwhat we were doing,\n\n297\n00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:42.880\nand were willing to push themselves to be the fullest version of themselves in\n\n298\n00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:43.840\ntheir job.\n\n299\n00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.660\nAnd so, that has taken a little pressure off me, to be honest with you, because\n\n300\n00:15:48.660 --> 00:15:51.040\nI now sort of look\n\n301\n00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:55.530\nat the job of the leader really as a people job. And it's about creating an\n\n302\n00:15:55.530 --> 00:15:57.520\nenvironment. And\n\n303\n00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:03.990\nultimately, I think what's a little funky about it too, David, is you realize\n\n304\n00:16:03.990 --> 00:16:05.440\nwhen you're building\n\n305\n00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:11.540\nan environment, ultimately that environment ends up building you too. And from\n\n306\n00:16:11.540 --> 00:16:12.640\nthat regard,\n\n307\n00:16:12.640 --> 00:16:18.400\nthis has been everything that I've wanted, even though where we are today is\n\n308\n00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:19.600\nfar different than\n\n309\n00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:27.940\nI expected seven years ago. Better or worse? Just different, just different.\n\n310\n00:16:27.940 --> 00:16:28.880\nAnd I think that\n\n311\n00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:35.090\nI'm not a patient person. When I go through, that's why I'm probably not the\n\n312\n00:16:35.090 --> 00:16:36.240\ngreatest golfer in the\n\n313\n00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.600\nworld. If I don't see results pretty quickly, I move on to something else. And\n\n314\n00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.360\nthat's not at all\n\n315\n00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:51.200\nwhat building a company is like. A lot of times, the results are seen or you\n\n316\n00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:51.920\nneed to feel them\n\n317\n00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:57.520\nbefore they show up on a scorecard or they show up on a KPI. And that really\n\n318\n00:16:57.520 --> 00:16:58.240\nchallenges your\n\n319\n00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:03.500\nself-belief and your conviction in the vision. And so, from that perspective, I\n\n320\n00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:04.240\n'm way ahead of\n\n321\n00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.800\nwhere I thought I would be as a leader, frankly. I find myself way more evolved\n\n322\n00:17:08.800 --> 00:17:10.080\nthan I had thought.\n\n323\n00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:16.560\nThe business itself is completely different than what I thought would happen.\n\n324\n00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:16.960\nOf course,\n\n325\n00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.890\nI started. Remember, when we had a conversation at your house, it was August of\n\n326\n00:17:20.890 --> 00:17:22.080\n2019. We didn't\n\n327\n00:17:22.080 --> 00:17:25.800\nknow COVID was coming. We didn't know about tariffs. We didn't know about\n\n328\n00:17:25.800 --> 00:17:26.800\ncultural shifts\n\n329\n00:17:26.800 --> 00:17:30.710\nhappening in a post-COVID environment. We didn't know about major retailers\n\n330\n00:17:30.710 --> 00:17:31.440\ngoing under. We didn't\n\n331\n00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.670\nknow about any of that stuff. And so, your business is going to evolve quite a\n\n332\n00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:36.720\nbit. I learned that\n\n333\n00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:42.000\npretty quickly. But what doesn't evolve much at all is the direction you think\n\n334\n00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:42.480\nyou're heading.\n\n335\n00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:45.790\nSo, I would say, yes, we're on schedule about where we're going to heading, how\n\n336\n00:17:45.790 --> 00:17:46.640\nwe got in there.\n\n337\n00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:51.120\nIt's been a jagged line, brother. I mean, it's been both hands on the wheel. It\n\n338\n00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:52.160\n's been stress.\n\n339\n00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.640\nUnlike any I could imagine, some days I ask myself, how does anyone do this?\n\n340\n00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:59.200\nAnd I've walked out of this\n\n341\n00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:06.320\nwith an admiration. I don't think I would have had otherwise for anybody that\n\n342\n00:18:06.320 --> 00:18:07.440\ndoes anything or\n\n343\n00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:13.360\nstarts anything or runs a business, whether that's a franchisee that owns five\n\n344\n00:18:13.360 --> 00:18:14.000\nstores\n\n345\n00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:21.310\nor somebody owned in a tomato stand, for that to exist is a miracle. So, I\n\n346\n00:18:21.310 --> 00:18:24.320\nreally feel that like\n\n347\n00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:31.600\nsincerely every day I come in, I feel the gravity of the responsibility.\n\n348\n00:18:31.600 --> 00:18:37.920\nI share that same feeling about the startup founders. I was sort of like\n\n349\n00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:39.040\nrenting space\n\n350\n00:18:39.040 --> 00:18:43.040\nas a corporate guy. Somebody else can replace me. But what you guys are doing,\n\n351\n00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:43.520\nyou're creating\n\n352\n00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:47.040\nsomething for scratch and something that's going to be enduring, that you know\n\n353\n00:18:47.040 --> 00:18:48.960\nyou did it that way.\n\n354\n00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:53.440\nYou don't. It's interesting you mentioned jagged line because Andy Jassy, a\n\n355\n00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:54.560\nfriend of mine who's\n\n356\n00:18:54.560 --> 00:18:59.760\nthe CEO of Amazon in his annual report, he talked about how business is not a\n\n357\n00:18:59.760 --> 00:19:01.200\nstraight line.\n\n358\n00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:05.440\nAnd that's exactly what you're getting at. And you know, we have to work your\n\n359\n00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:06.240\nway through those\n\n360\n00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:12.080\nthrough those statistics. You know, one thing that I noticed in my research was\n\n361\n00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:13.280\nthat you really talk\n\n362\n00:19:13.280 --> 00:19:19.200\nabout clothes. You talk about the person wearing them. You know, what's your\n\n363\n00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.080\nthinking behind that,\n\n364\n00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:25.110\nHarry? It starts with a person. And like I said, a few minutes ago, you know,\n\n365\n00:19:25.110 --> 00:19:27.360\nto me, and especially\n\n366\n00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:34.080\nwith my role in wanting to really have a direct connection personally with the\n\n367\n00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:34.800\npeople\n\n368\n00:19:34.800 --> 00:19:40.100\nthat create our community, whether they're in it today or could be in the\n\n369\n00:19:40.100 --> 00:19:42.960\nfuture, is to think of\n\n370\n00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:49.900\nour brand as being something that's additive and enhances the life they're in\n\n371\n00:19:49.900 --> 00:19:50.320\nno matter\n\n372\n00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:56.070\nwhat we do. And I think that for me, when I'm talking about our products\n\n373\n00:19:56.070 --> 00:19:57.280\nspecifically,\n\n374\n00:19:57.280 --> 00:20:04.080\nI think that it's more transactive and transactional than I care to be with our\n\n375\n00:20:04.080 --> 00:20:05.120\nconsumers because\n\n376\n00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:11.460\nwe want municipal to be part of their identity, whether they are wearing\n\n377\n00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:12.720\nsomething visible or\n\n378\n00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.540\nnot wearing something visible or just sharing the mindset. And so that's what\n\n379\n00:20:17.540 --> 00:20:19.040\ninspires me\n\n380\n00:20:19.040 --> 00:20:26.240\ntoo and why I do this is more about that and helping to think of being a\n\n381\n00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:27.120\ncatalyst and a real\n\n382\n00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:32.950\npartner for transformational change that I believe is available to all of us.\n\n383\n00:20:32.950 --> 00:20:34.480\nIt's just the decision.\n\n384\n00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:39.200\nAnd so I get more passionate about that as my role than I do telling people\n\n385\n00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:40.080\nthat we make the best\n\n386\n00:20:40.080 --> 00:20:46.180\nt-shirts and hoodies in the world, even though we do. But, you know, it's\n\n387\n00:20:46.180 --> 00:20:47.040\ninteresting because,\n\n388\n00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:52.960\nyou know, I'm always honest with you, but one of the things that, you know, I\n\n389\n00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:54.000\nhear a lot of people\n\n390\n00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:58.360\ntalking about community, you know, and it seems to be this buzzword and, you\n\n391\n00:20:58.360 --> 00:20:59.120\nknow, I get a little\n\n392\n00:20:59.120 --> 00:21:04.780\nskeptical sometimes I hear, you know, people talking about community. So do me\n\n393\n00:21:04.780 --> 00:21:05.840\na favor, okay,\n\n394\n00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:11.340\nand define what you really mean by community and give us some advice on how you\n\n395\n00:21:11.340 --> 00:21:12.160\nbuild it.\n\n396\n00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:18.430\nTo me, it's pretty simple. And you can think of the best communities. I'll let\n\n397\n00:21:18.430 --> 00:21:19.040\nyou in on another\n\n398\n00:21:19.040 --> 00:21:23.520\nlittle thing. I'm only, if to the extent that I'm any good at marketing, it's\n\n399\n00:21:23.520 --> 00:21:24.240\nonly because I\n\n400\n00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:29.270\nnever think about marketing. I only think about people. And if you think about\n\n401\n00:21:29.270 --> 00:21:30.160\nthe best communities\n\n402\n00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.320\nyou're a part of, whether that's your church community, whether that's PTA,\n\n403\n00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:34.000\nwhether that's,\n\n404\n00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:41.050\nit's rarely PTA, or whether that's your HOA, also rarely your HOA, is all of\n\n405\n00:21:41.050 --> 00:21:42.240\nthe people\n\n406\n00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.710\nthat are there and the best ones you're thinking about a team, church, your\n\n407\n00:21:46.710 --> 00:21:48.560\nfamily, that's a community,\n\n408\n00:21:48.560 --> 00:21:53.050\nis you're sharing the same belief system, you're sharing the same values. And I\n\n409\n00:21:53.050 --> 00:21:54.400\nthink that the\n\n410\n00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.780\nbest communities are the ones that are built on the fewest ones of those\n\n411\n00:21:57.780 --> 00:21:59.760\ninstead of the most of those.\n\n412\n00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:04.580\nAnd so when we're trying to build a community, we're trying to really think of\n\n413\n00:22:04.580 --> 00:22:05.280\nthe two or three\n\n414\n00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:08.560\nthings that are the most important to us. And I've talked about a bunch of\n\n415\n00:22:08.560 --> 00:22:11.840\nthose, but it's family,\n\n416\n00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:18.960\nit's faith. It's the fundamental belief that our physical and mental fitness\n\n417\n00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:19.760\nare required.\n\n418\n00:22:19.760 --> 00:22:26.560\nAnd it's our duties to explore the healthiest versions of that, curiosity in\n\n419\n00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:26.960\nthe one you\n\n420\n00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:31.430\nmentioned, self-belief. And if we can start to build communities around that\n\n421\n00:22:31.430 --> 00:22:32.320\nbelief system,\n\n422\n00:22:32.320 --> 00:22:36.250\nor just present an environment where that belief system is present, that's how\n\n423\n00:22:36.250 --> 00:22:37.440\nyou build a community.\n\n424\n00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:43.910\nI'm with you. The brands that talk about it in kind of cynical ways, thinking\n\n425\n00:22:43.910 --> 00:22:45.440\nof it as an output,\n\n426\n00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.950\nI think, are the ones that I also resist to. The brands that really think about\n\n427\n00:22:49.950 --> 00:22:52.240\nit in terms of\n\n428\n00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:57.280\nbuilding the conditions for that environment to exist, which start with values,\n\n429\n00:22:57.280 --> 00:22:57.760\nthose are the\n\n430\n00:22:57.760 --> 00:23:01.790\nones that have the most sustainability and then they're most enduring. And if\n\n431\n00:23:01.790 --> 00:23:02.640\nyou think of the\n\n432\n00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.900\nthings that we just mentioned in the communities, you'll find they all come\n\n433\n00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:08.080\ndown to those same two\n\n434\n00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:12.930\nor three principles that can be unique to that group, but they all come down to\n\n435\n00:23:12.930 --> 00:23:13.760\nthe same two or\n\n436\n00:23:13.760 --> 00:23:18.240\nthree groups. You're in a church you love, why do you love it? Because\n\n437\n00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.080\neverybody sort of has the\n\n438\n00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:25.120\nsame belief system. Hello friends, I hope you're loving this conversation. Be\n\n439\n00:23:25.120 --> 00:23:26.000\nsure to stay tuned to\n\n440\n00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.720\nthe very end of the episode. As always, David and I are going to debrief some\n\n441\n00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:30.480\nof the concepts\n\n442\n00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.700\nthat he talks about with this week's guests, so stay tuned to the very end and\n\n443\n00:23:34.700 --> 00:23:36.000\nI will see you soon.\n\n444\n00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:43.600\nYou know, you're up against people like Lulele Lemon, Voori, Nike even. You\n\n445\n00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:44.800\nknow, how are you using\n\n446\n00:23:44.800 --> 00:23:52.960\nyour size, your startup mentality as an advantage? I don't think I did that\n\n447\n00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:53.840\nvery well as a leader\n\n448\n00:23:53.840 --> 00:23:59.040\nwhen we first started, because I came into the job thinking more traditionally\n\n449\n00:23:59.040 --> 00:23:59.840\nthat this is just\n\n450\n00:23:59.840 --> 00:24:04.310\nlike what I'm used to, but smaller. Without thinking through a lot of those\n\n451\n00:24:04.310 --> 00:24:04.720\ndynamics,\n\n452\n00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:11.460\nI think that the most liberating thing is when you make that decision or you\n\n453\n00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:12.320\nmake that realization\n\n454\n00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:16.080\nis, \"Wait a minute, we don't have to act like the biggest, most scaled\n\n455\n00:24:16.080 --> 00:24:17.920\ncompanies in the world.\"\n\n456\n00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:23.840\nAnd if I were sitting at Nike and a brand like Municipal popped up or let's go\n\n457\n00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:24.160\nback,\n\n458\n00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:28.880\na brand like On Running popped up or a brand like Hoka, I would love it if I\n\n459\n00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:29.600\nwere sitting in that\n\n460\n00:24:29.600 --> 00:24:35.440\nin my CEO suite, my C suite, and someone came in and said, \"Hey, guess what?\n\n461\n00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:37.040\nThere's a new brand\n\n462\n00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:40.110\nthat popped up. They look pretty hot and they're trying to organize and\n\n463\n00:24:40.110 --> 00:24:41.200\nstructure themselves\n\n464\n00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:46.230\nexactly like us. I would be ecstatic to hear that as a competitor.\" If somebody\n\n465\n00:24:46.230 --> 00:24:47.440\ncame in and said,\n\n466\n00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:51.210\n\"Hey, guess what, boss? There's a new brand. It's hot. I've looked at what they\n\n467\n00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:52.320\n're doing. They don't do\n\n468\n00:24:52.320 --> 00:24:56.960\nanything like we do. I would be very, very scared.\" And so I think that's what\n\n469\n00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:58.800\nwe've tried to adopt here\n\n470\n00:24:58.800 --> 00:25:03.620\nis more of that type of spirit is let's think of the end result that we're\n\n471\n00:25:03.620 --> 00:25:04.960\ntrying to create\n\n472\n00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:11.350\nand let's try to create a demand system, if you will, that supports that\n\n473\n00:25:11.350 --> 00:25:12.240\ninstead of trying to\n\n474\n00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.600\nstructure ourselves based on what we've known. By the way, we did not come to\n\n475\n00:25:15.600 --> 00:25:17.040\nthat realization\n\n476\n00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:22.710\nuntil about year three, but I would advise anybody who's starting that is throw\n\n477\n00:25:22.710 --> 00:25:23.920\naway what you know\n\n478\n00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.850\nabout organizational structure, what you know about product development, what\n\n479\n00:25:27.850 --> 00:25:28.400\nyou know about\n\n480\n00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:32.880\nmarketing, and start from where you want the result to be and what you want\n\n481\n00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:34.000\nyour impact to be,\n\n482\n00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:37.490\nand then figure out what's the structure that supports that. It makes a lot of\n\n483\n00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:39.520\nsense. Coming from\n\n484\n00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:45.030\nthe world of golf, if you didn't have a big new product every year, you were in\n\n485\n00:25:45.030 --> 00:25:46.560\ndeep water. You\n\n486\n00:25:46.560 --> 00:25:53.600\nhad to be innovating. What did 14 years on that treadmill do for you as a\n\n487\n00:25:53.600 --> 00:25:55.360\nleader and how you're\n\n488\n00:25:55.360 --> 00:26:01.000\nleading municipal? When you said I thought of my days at TaylorMade, and there\n\n489\n00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:02.080\nare years we launched\n\n490\n00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:06.560\nfour drivers in one year. Now most brands, almost all, will only launch once a\n\n491\n00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:09.120\nyear. I kind of got\n\n492\n00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:16.240\nstarted in that dynamic environment and from a leader that I respect a lot,\n\n493\n00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:17.120\nstill play golf with,\n\n494\n00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:23.120\nhe still beats me, which is annoying. That's really the importance of momentum.\n\n495\n00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:24.720\nI kind of got\n\n496\n00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:30.640\nstarted really appreciating how do you operationalize momentum? What's the\n\n497\n00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.200\nsystem that is required to\n\n498\n00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:38.480\ncreate momentum? Some years, that was four drivers if you were trying to keep\n\n499\n00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:39.920\nmarketplace momentum.\n\n500\n00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:43.660\nThat's too many, by the way. Don't ever launch four drivers if you're in a\n\n501\n00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:45.120\nconsumer business.\n\n502\n00:26:45.120 --> 00:26:50.400\nBut I think our success there really got me the opportunity to call away, which\n\n503\n00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:51.440\nwas totally\n\n504\n00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:58.470\ndifferent. The difference there was, Callaway had smart people. They just weren\n\n505\n00:26:58.470 --> 00:27:00.320\n't winning. That's\n\n506\n00:27:00.320 --> 00:27:08.560\nan entire cool brand, a legacy iconic brand with smart people that's not\n\n507\n00:27:08.560 --> 00:27:11.360\nwinning. They needed to\n\n508\n00:27:11.360 --> 00:27:17.490\nbelieve in a vision. They needed to believe they could win. That was pretty\n\n509\n00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:19.360\nobvious to us as a new\n\n510\n00:27:19.360 --> 00:27:24.700\nleadership team when I got there is really the power of belief. If you match up\n\n511\n00:27:24.700 --> 00:27:25.600\nmomentum,\n\n512\n00:27:25.600 --> 00:27:30.980\na value of winning to create momentum in your business with getting a group of\n\n513\n00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:31.280\npeople\n\n514\n00:27:31.280 --> 00:27:38.000\nbuying in, believing in that vision, then you're going to be successful. Pretty\n\n515\n00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.040\nsimple as that. It\n\n516\n00:27:39.040 --> 00:27:46.340\nhad nothing to do with golf, just momentum and belief really. You started out,\n\n517\n00:27:46.340 --> 00:27:48.160\nHarry with the\n\n518\n00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:53.800\nhoodies and t-shirts and pretty much apparel. Then you move into the shoe\n\n519\n00:27:53.800 --> 00:27:54.480\nbusiness here.\n\n520\n00:27:54.480 --> 00:28:00.970\nI got the municipal shoe here for everybody to take a look at. What had to\n\n521\n00:28:00.970 --> 00:28:04.080\nhappen with your brand\n\n522\n00:28:04.080 --> 00:28:08.900\nthat would give you the confidence that, \"Hey, we can actually move into shoes\n\n523\n00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:11.200\nnow.\" Now we talked\n\n524\n00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.850\nearlier about gyms, but what had to be put in place where you thought it was\n\n525\n00:28:15.850 --> 00:28:17.440\ntime that you could\n\n526\n00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:21.920\nreally extend your brand? Well, at the end of the day, you got to press go and\n\n527\n00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.520\ncan't no fear go for\n\n528\n00:28:23.520 --> 00:28:29.050\nit. You're right when speaking of that as a decision. We talked to a lot of\n\n529\n00:28:29.050 --> 00:28:29.680\npeople\n\n530\n00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:34.620\nheading into what ultimately was doing it ourselves. We got hit up. You name\n\n531\n00:28:34.620 --> 00:28:35.440\nthe brand,\n\n532\n00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:40.470\nthey were hitting us up, not because of me, because of Mark. Let's do a collab\n\n533\n00:28:40.470 --> 00:28:40.880\nwith you.\n\n534\n00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:46.480\nLet's do this. Let's do that. Ultimately, we thought that might introduce us to\n\n535\n00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:47.200\na new audience,\n\n536\n00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:50.560\nbut all that's telling about us is that we're willing to get in business with\n\n537\n00:28:50.560 --> 00:28:51.040\none of them,\n\n538\n00:28:51.040 --> 00:28:55.860\nthrow our logo on something, put Mark in the product and hope it sells, and\n\n539\n00:28:55.860 --> 00:28:56.320\nthat's not what\n\n540\n00:28:56.320 --> 00:29:02.270\nour brand is all about. As we were thinking about footwear, we were really\n\n541\n00:29:02.270 --> 00:29:03.840\ntrying to pick up on the\n\n542\n00:29:03.840 --> 00:29:08.540\nsignal of what our consumer is telling us where they want it to go. Getting\n\n543\n00:29:08.540 --> 00:29:10.080\nback to even that\n\n544\n00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:15.280\nquestion about community is we had already at that point in the 2023, we had\n\n545\n00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:16.640\nbuilt a pretty vibrant\n\n546\n00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:21.840\ngroup of loyal municipal people, and we were noticing either they were\n\n547\n00:29:21.840 --> 00:29:23.200\nsearching for it on our\n\n548\n00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:28.020\nsite or they were reaching out to us directly, \"When is your footwear coming\n\n549\n00:29:28.020 --> 00:29:29.040\nout?\" We didn't even\n\n550\n00:29:29.040 --> 00:29:33.510\nhave footwear, but they were asking us, \"When can we put your shoes on?\" We\n\n551\n00:29:33.510 --> 00:29:36.080\nstarted to think about\n\n552\n00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:42.680\nnot let's do a shoe, but back to white shoe to paper, if there was a municipal\n\n553\n00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:43.760\nshoe, what would it be?\n\n554\n00:29:43.760 --> 00:29:51.680\nImagining it that way, thinking about how we would want to launch it, who we'd\n\n555\n00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:52.320\nwant it on,\n\n556\n00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:56.880\nwhat it would be for, and then again, we kind of worked backwards from there of\n\n557\n00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:58.080\nwhat's our best\n\n558\n00:29:58.080 --> 00:30:04.560\nand fastest way to get there. We weren't stupid, we didn't launch a huge line\n\n559\n00:30:04.560 --> 00:30:07.040\nof 20 shoes across\n\n560\n00:30:07.040 --> 00:30:11.520\n50 different skus or whatever, we launched one shoe, six colors, which was a\n\n561\n00:30:11.520 --> 00:30:13.120\nlot, but we felt like\n\n562\n00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:19.640\nthat was important, and we sold out 20,000 run of shoes, which for company our\n\n563\n00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:20.560\nsize is really big,\n\n564\n00:30:20.560 --> 00:30:25.110\nwe sold out in three weeks. From there, we were sort of off and running. No pun\n\n565\n00:30:25.110 --> 00:30:27.600\nintended on the\n\n566\n00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:30.160\nride. I saw your eyes roll there, David.\n\n567\n00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:37.120\nAs I mentioned at the top of the show, you're one of the best marketing people\n\n568\n00:30:37.120 --> 00:30:38.640\nthat I've ever\n\n569\n00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:43.250\never known, and I came up in the marketing world, and sometimes you can get\n\n570\n00:30:43.250 --> 00:30:44.160\npigeonholed\n\n571\n00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:49.000\nas a marketing person. I remember you actually telling me you were a little\n\n572\n00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:49.840\nirritated by that,\n\n573\n00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:55.840\nbut how did you break out? What advice can you give to people who obviously\n\n574\n00:30:55.840 --> 00:30:57.360\nhave a towering\n\n575\n00:30:57.360 --> 00:31:03.360\nstrength that can be in marketing or it could be in finance, but you want to\n\n576\n00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:04.000\nhave broader\n\n577\n00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.640\nresponsibilities and be more of a general manager? What advice can you give\n\n578\n00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.840\npeople on the best\n\n579\n00:31:09.840 --> 00:31:12.000\nway to grow yourself?\n\n580\n00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.760\nBecause you see me bristle a little bit when you said you're one of the best\n\n581\n00:31:15.760 --> 00:31:16.960\nmarketing people I know,\n\n582\n00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:22.160\nand I was like, David, I started a company for seven years. Come on, man, I got\n\n583\n00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.120\nto change your\n\n584\n00:31:23.120 --> 00:31:26.420\nmind on that a little bit. Well, there you go. Well, you asked. That's what I'm\n\n585\n00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:26.960\nasking you the\n\n586\n00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:30.420\nquestion. Actually, you kind of helped me with this a little bit, whether you\n\n587\n00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:31.200\nintentionally did\n\n588\n00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.660\nit or not. You said, I think when I mentioned that to you, you're like, that's\n\n589\n00:31:34.660 --> 00:31:35.600\nthe cool thing about\n\n590\n00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:43.220\nthese jobs is you can bring that with you into a new job and be a phenomenal\n\n591\n00:31:43.220 --> 00:31:44.160\nCEO coming out of\n\n592\n00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:48.400\nmarketing. You can be a phenomenal general manager coming out of finance. You\n\n593\n00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:49.520\nsee that all the time.\n\n594\n00:31:49.520 --> 00:31:54.410\nWhat's important is to be authentically you. And I think that the practical\n\n595\n00:31:54.410 --> 00:31:56.320\npart of the career vice,\n\n596\n00:31:56.320 --> 00:32:00.800\nI would say to people is try something that scares you that's not in your\n\n597\n00:32:00.800 --> 00:32:01.840\nfunctional area of\n\n598\n00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:06.410\nexpertise. And when you get into it, get into those roles, bring with you the\n\n599\n00:32:06.410 --> 00:32:07.520\nprinciples that\n\n600\n00:32:07.520 --> 00:32:12.010\nmade you good in that function. Sometimes it's even down to the actual stuff\n\n601\n00:32:12.010 --> 00:32:13.280\nyou were doing in that\n\n602\n00:32:13.280 --> 00:32:18.480\nrole. So when I got more general roles, either a callaway or when I created one\n\n603\n00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:19.200\nmyself,\n\n604\n00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:23.110\nI thought about this role as I mentioned is this is a people role. And I'm\n\n605\n00:32:23.110 --> 00:32:24.720\ntrying to create identity\n\n606\n00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:29.190\namong all of the people that municipal to create the belief inside that\n\n607\n00:32:29.190 --> 00:32:30.400\ngenerates the energy that\n\n608\n00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:36.980\nthen we can, we can transfer to to the public. And so what am I good at? I'm\n\n609\n00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:38.240\ngood at communication\n\n610\n00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:42.250\ntheoretically. What am I good at? I'm good at content. I'm good at connection.\n\n611\n00:32:42.250 --> 00:32:43.120\nSo I always thought\n\n612\n00:32:43.120 --> 00:32:47.940\nthrough it more systematically. I'm saying this coming out of a marketing role\n\n613\n00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:48.720\nis I'm really going\n\n614\n00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:54.030\nto rely on those skills I have as a marketing person to then help me amplify\n\n615\n00:32:54.030 --> 00:32:55.840\nand be a different\n\n616\n00:32:55.840 --> 00:33:00.310\nkind of person in a general management role. Now I never leapt over into\n\n617\n00:33:00.310 --> 00:33:01.280\nsomething completely\n\n618\n00:33:01.280 --> 00:33:06.490\ndifferent. Like I never became a finance person or finance vertical or an\n\n619\n00:33:06.490 --> 00:33:08.080\noperations vertical.\n\n620\n00:33:08.080 --> 00:33:12.300\nBut my guess is it works the same there if they're crossing over back and forth\n\n621\n00:33:12.300 --> 00:33:13.760\n. But authenticity\n\n622\n00:33:13.760 --> 00:33:18.780\nand I guess you helped me get over the stigma. It's only a stigma if you allow\n\n623\n00:33:18.780 --> 00:33:19.760\nit to be. And I've\n\n624\n00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:27.730\nalways tried to not allow that to get my way and take on challenges that really\n\n625\n00:33:27.730 --> 00:33:29.200\nscared me. And I\n\n626\n00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:34.800\nrealized would force me outside of the boundaries of what I felt like I already\n\n627\n00:33:34.800 --> 00:33:35.040\nknew.\n\n628\n00:33:35.040 --> 00:33:40.240\nWhat I hear you saying is you didn't want to run away from who you are. You\n\n629\n00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:40.960\nleveraged your\n\n630\n00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.990\nstrengths and dug into the things that you basically needed to know that scared\n\n631\n00:33:45.990 --> 00:33:47.120\nthe heck out of you\n\n632\n00:33:47.120 --> 00:33:52.610\nat least at one point your search towards being a good CEO and founder. And you\n\n633\n00:33:52.610 --> 00:33:53.120\nknow,\n\n634\n00:33:54.400 --> 00:34:00.230\nhaving said that, you'll never lose your creativity, okay? You'll never lose\n\n635\n00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:00.480\nyour\n\n636\n00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:08.720\ndesire to love customers and people. So when you're an incredibly creative\n\n637\n00:34:08.720 --> 00:34:09.840\nperson like yourself,\n\n638\n00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.920\nhow do you control yourself and your passion for ideas?\n\n639\n00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:21.280\nThis is a lifelong journey for me, David, because I also suffer from a healthy\n\n640\n00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:21.760\ndegree of\n\n641\n00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:27.840\ntension deficit disorder. So my mind is going a thousand miles an hour. And\n\n642\n00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:34.720\nI think that that served me really well as a young person, by the way. Creative\n\n643\n00:34:34.720 --> 00:34:34.720\n,\n\n644\n00:34:34.720 --> 00:34:44.060\nI'm going to give myself at least not a dummy and having a mind that works all\n\n645\n00:34:44.060 --> 00:34:44.880\nthe time over time.\n\n646\n00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:48.790\nAnd that can be exhausting. But that's a different podcast for a different show\n\n647\n00:34:48.790 --> 00:34:49.680\n, David.\n\n648\n00:34:49.680 --> 00:34:55.840\nBut early on in my career, that really helped me. That was probably a catalyst\n\n649\n00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.200\nis I could outwork\n\n650\n00:34:57.200 --> 00:35:01.160\npeople, I could outproduce. If they asked for one idea, I could give them 10. I\n\n651\n00:35:01.160 --> 00:35:02.400\nnever was a\n\n652\n00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:06.070\ncopywriter in an ad agency, but I bet it would be a good one because I could\n\n653\n00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:07.040\ncome up with 100\n\n654\n00:35:07.040 --> 00:35:12.300\ndifferent ways to say the same thing very, very quickly. And then as I realized\n\n655\n00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.760\n, that same\n\n656\n00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:22.480\ntalent and sometimes urge is actually a hindrance to being a great leader.\n\n657\n00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:30.390\nAnd so I have still a work in progress, but I have tried to be in meetings for\n\n658\n00:35:30.390 --> 00:35:30.880\nespecially ones\n\n659\n00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:38.510\nthat are creative to be a lot more curious about the problem than I am excited\n\n660\n00:35:38.510 --> 00:35:40.320\nabout the answer.\n\n661\n00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.440\nAnd so that has really forced me to in a lot of ways be the last one to speak\n\n662\n00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:46.080\nin meetings,\n\n663\n00:35:46.080 --> 00:35:51.520\nbecause I'm trying to hold on to the other value that I have that goes with\n\n664\n00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:54.080\ncreativity,\n\n665\n00:35:54.080 --> 00:35:59.900\nwhich is my own curiosity, is to hold that as more precious in some ways than\n\n666\n00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:01.120\nmy creativity.\n\n667\n00:36:01.120 --> 00:36:05.590\nAnd whenever I do that, I find that I'm a better version of myself in those\n\n668\n00:36:05.590 --> 00:36:06.000\nmeetings,\n\n669\n00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:09.470\nbut it is a struggle. I got the devil on one side and the angel on the other\n\n670\n00:36:09.470 --> 00:36:10.160\nspeak first,\n\n671\n00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:14.720\nyou got great ideas. And the angel saying, I got to just wait and create an\n\n672\n00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.440\nenvironment where the\n\n673\n00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.490\nbest ideas come and they're not going to come from it. You landed on a\n\n674\n00:36:19.490 --> 00:36:21.840\ndefinition of culture as a\n\n675\n00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:27.760\nCEO that I've never really never heard before. And you said, and I quote, it's\n\n676\n00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.040\nhow a group comes\n\n677\n00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:33.870\ntogether to solve problems under stress. That's how you define culture. It's\n\n678\n00:36:33.870 --> 00:36:34.800\nhow a group comes\n\n679\n00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:40.320\ntogether to solve problems under stress. Explain. I mean, everybody gets along\n\n680\n00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:41.840\nand feels great and\n\n681\n00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:46.320\nis the most productive, creative versions of themselves when everything's going\n\n682\n00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:47.040\nawesome.\n\n683\n00:36:47.040 --> 00:36:54.300\nIf I sit there at home and I walk in David and I've got my wife and two girls,\n\n684\n00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:56.000\nand I say, hey,\n\n685\n00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:59.760\neverybody, anybody up for going to get Thai food tonight and everybody says,\n\n686\n00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.520\nyes, culture's great.\n\n687\n00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:05.600\nThat doesn't happen very often. That does not happen very often.\n\n688\n00:37:05.600 --> 00:37:11.810\nSo how are the four of us going to come to a solution in times of stress when\n\n689\n00:37:11.810 --> 00:37:13.680\nCJ wants tacos,\n\n690\n00:37:13.680 --> 00:37:20.340\nKeras wants hamburgers, Kim wants a salad, and I, well, I want them all. So how\n\n691\n00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:20.880\nis that?\n\n692\n00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:26.800\nHow are you going to come together to collaborate when times aren't so good?\n\n693\n00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:27.680\nAnd if you have a,\n\n694\n00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:33.360\nI know that sounds really simple, but if you think about the complexities of\n\n695\n00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:34.400\nwhat comes into the\n\n696\n00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:38.770\nroom to solve those problems, you got politics, you got, maybe you have a\n\n697\n00:37:38.770 --> 00:37:39.520\nculture that doesn't\n\n698\n00:37:39.520 --> 00:37:44.830\nreally look at the root problem. You tend to look at symptoms. Maybe you have a\n\n699\n00:37:44.830 --> 00:37:45.120\nvery\n\n700\n00:37:45.120 --> 00:37:50.400\nfragmented or siloed organization where people think about more about\n\n701\n00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:51.840\ndepartmental optimization\n\n702\n00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:56.060\nthan they do company system optimization. That's going to show up when you try\n\n703\n00:37:56.060 --> 00:37:57.440\nto tackle a problem.\n\n704\n00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:04.240\nAnd so for us and the team, I think the part two of that to me really is\n\n705\n00:38:04.240 --> 00:38:11.760\nculture is not something that you dictate. Culture is something that unfolds\n\n706\n00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:13.840\nbased on the environment\n\n707\n00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:18.870\nthat you create. And so in that environment, what's the one that's going to\n\n708\n00:38:18.870 --> 00:38:19.440\nproduce\n\n709\n00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:23.790\nthe kind of results you want? It's the environment when it's under stress. And\n\n710\n00:38:23.790 --> 00:38:24.800\nI think for our team,\n\n711\n00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:31.760\nat least, it's a good shorthand too, to think about how they show up in those\n\n712\n00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:32.080\nkinds of\n\n713\n00:38:32.080 --> 00:38:35.280\nmeetings when things can get tense. Not everybody wants to eat Thai.\n\n714\n00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:41.550\nYou've also said, Harry, that if you're shaky about your core values, don't\n\n715\n00:38:41.550 --> 00:38:42.400\nstart a company.\n\n716\n00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:47.680\nWhich one of your core values has been tested the most?\n\n717\n00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:54.800\nOne of mine is responsibility. And I think that it had really early, David. I\n\n718\n00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.560\nmentioned I was\n\n719\n00:38:56.560 --> 00:39:00.540\ntalked to you in August of 2019. You're said, what are you leaving this job for\n\n720\n00:39:00.540 --> 00:39:02.800\n? Well, I have this\n\n721\n00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.450\nthing that I feel like I want to do these co-founders. Okay. By March, COVID\n\n722\n00:39:06.450 --> 00:39:09.680\nhit. So I had left my job in\n\n723\n00:39:09.680 --> 00:39:17.310\nAugust. I'm making a lot less than I was. March rolls around. We had hired, at\n\n724\n00:39:17.310 --> 00:39:17.840\nthat point,\n\n725\n00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.630\n13 people, most of which I had known from the past, they were part of my\n\n726\n00:39:21.630 --> 00:39:22.000\nnetwork.\n\n727\n00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:31.040\nAnd our main investor pulled out. We had four days left to cash. Four. And so I\n\n728\n00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:32.720\ncould barely even\n\n729\n00:39:32.720 --> 00:39:37.600\npeel myself up off of the ground when he called to say that they were pulling\n\n730\n00:39:37.600 --> 00:39:38.240\nout and we only had\n\n731\n00:39:38.240 --> 00:39:45.230\nfour days left to cash. And so I think at that point, once I caught my breath,\n\n732\n00:39:45.230 --> 00:39:46.480\nis thought about,\n\n733\n00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.110\nokay, there are a lot of different options. But what's the one that stays\n\n734\n00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:54.160\ncloser to the things\n\n735\n00:39:54.160 --> 00:40:00.640\nthat are important to us? And one of mine is responsibility. And I felt a\n\n736\n00:40:00.640 --> 00:40:01.680\nresponsibility to the\n\n737\n00:40:01.680 --> 00:40:06.190\npeople that we had hired to keep going. And so we had laid anybody off, kept\n\n738\n00:40:06.190 --> 00:40:07.360\neverybody employed\n\n739\n00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:16.490\nat full salary. And the reason is because we were just unwilling to compromise\n\n740\n00:40:16.490 --> 00:40:16.800\non the\n\n741\n00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:20.480\nresponsibility and the commitments that we made. Where did you find the cash?\n\n742\n00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:28.390\nShook the couches. Went into our retirement. All the three founders and I went\n\n743\n00:40:28.390 --> 00:40:28.800\ninto our own\n\n744\n00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:34.050\npockets and funded the thing and kept funding it. Because at that point, like I\n\n745\n00:40:34.050 --> 00:40:34.640\nsaid, we had\n\n746\n00:40:34.640 --> 00:40:39.460\nstarted it. We wanted to finish what we'd started. And we also knew that we had\n\n747\n00:40:39.460 --> 00:40:40.320\nsomething special\n\n748\n00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:43.840\nif we just hung in there. So it meant that much to us. We literally bet on\n\n749\n00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:44.640\nourselves.\n\n750\n00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:49.960\nNow that's fantastic. And now I want to shift gears for a minute, Harry. And I\n\n751\n00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:50.480\nwant to take\n\n752\n00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:54.960\nyou back a little ways. What's the story from your childhood that shaped the\n\n753\n00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:55.840\nkind of leader you\n\n754\n00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:04.320\nare today? I grew up in what can best be called an untraditional household. And\n\n755\n00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:04.960\nI don't mean that\n\n756\n00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.810\nin the way that people think of untraditional households today. But my dad was\n\n757\n00:41:08.810 --> 00:41:09.600\nfrom the deep\n\n758\n00:41:09.600 --> 00:41:14.970\nsouth. He was from a little town in Georgia. And he chose a career in the arts\n\n759\n00:41:14.970 --> 00:41:16.320\nin Atlanta, Georgia.\n\n760\n00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:22.450\nSo we were sort of outcasts in a weird way because we lived in Atlanta, Georgia\n\n761\n00:41:22.450 --> 00:41:23.600\n. My dad didn't have\n\n762\n00:41:23.600 --> 00:41:28.800\nan office job. If you went to our house in any given day, you'd see museum\n\n763\n00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.320\ncollectors, artists,\n\n764\n00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:38.220\nbohemians, dancers, entertainers, curators, you name it, Star Wars Bar. It's\n\n765\n00:41:38.220 --> 00:41:38.640\nwhat it looked like\n\n766\n00:41:38.640 --> 00:41:49.160\nin our house. But what I didn't realize at that time was dad was doing a lot of\n\n767\n00:41:49.160 --> 00:41:49.360\nwhat\n\n768\n00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:54.560\nis I'm passionate about now was he was creating an environment where curiosity\n\n769\n00:41:54.560 --> 00:41:56.480\nmanifested itself.\n\n770\n00:41:56.480 --> 00:42:02.580\nI grew up going to see artists on summer. Never went to summer camp. We never\n\n771\n00:42:02.580 --> 00:42:02.800\nwent to\n\n772\n00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:07.150\nbeach as a family. Never went on a single traditional vacation. We were driving\n\n773\n00:42:07.150 --> 00:42:07.840\naround the southeast\n\n774\n00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:17.360\nlooking at artists. And I think that the part that I remember about that was\n\n775\n00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:19.200\nhow it all\n\n776\n00:42:19.200 --> 00:42:28.540\nended. Dad sort of crashed out for a period of time. And what was entertaining\n\n777\n00:42:28.540 --> 00:42:31.680\nand lively and joyous\n\n778\n00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:39.590\nbecame really, really quiet. And that stuck with me because it made me really\n\n779\n00:42:39.590 --> 00:42:40.960\nthink about a lot\n\n780\n00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:46.160\nof the subjects that are important to me now, one of which is mental health,\n\n781\n00:42:46.160 --> 00:42:46.640\nwhich I'm talking\n\n782\n00:42:46.640 --> 00:42:52.330\nabout now. The other is, as I was mentioning, curiosity and sleeping on the\n\n783\n00:42:52.330 --> 00:42:53.840\nback porch of\n\n784\n00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.880\nartists in Mississippi's house in July. I bet not many people have done that. I\n\n785\n00:42:57.880 --> 00:42:58.880\n've done it multiple\n\n786\n00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:03.840\ntimes is there's genius to be found if you're willing to look for it.\n\n787\n00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:09.280\nDid you have, Harry, did you have like, you know, your dad had his own business\n\n788\n00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:10.320\n. He was a famous\n\n789\n00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:16.820\nart collector, you know, like a gallerist, you know, did you, you know, how\n\n790\n00:43:16.820 --> 00:43:17.600\nmuch pressure did you\n\n791\n00:43:17.600 --> 00:43:26.420\nfeel to go in the family business? A lot, a lot. And dad, dad had a vision and\n\n792\n00:43:26.420 --> 00:43:27.680\nhe had his vision\n\n793\n00:43:27.680 --> 00:43:33.160\nsuperseded really just what what element of a business there was to support\n\n794\n00:43:33.160 --> 00:43:35.120\nthat a lot of times it felt\n\n795\n00:43:35.120 --> 00:43:43.030\nvery hand to mouth. And so he had a very kind of a agrarian viewpoint on how\n\n796\n00:43:43.030 --> 00:43:43.760\nthe family should\n\n797\n00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:48.480\nsupport family business. So I was expected to go into the fields, as it were,\n\n798\n00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.160\ncoming out. But he\n\n799\n00:43:50.160 --> 00:43:53.540\nalso was very encouraging for us, as you would expect somebody that's\n\n800\n00:43:53.540 --> 00:43:55.440\ninterested in the arts and\n\n801\n00:43:55.440 --> 00:44:00.730\ncreativity to to pursue whatever our passions were. And my passion was never\n\n802\n00:44:00.730 --> 00:44:03.120\nreally to grow up in a\n\n803\n00:44:03.120 --> 00:44:10.170\nfamily business too chaotic, too crazy, too turbulent. So if you had asked me\n\n804\n00:44:10.170 --> 00:44:11.840\nthe 21 year old version\n\n805\n00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:14.650\nof myself, whatever, want to be an entrepreneur, I would say no way I need\n\n806\n00:44:14.650 --> 00:44:15.840\nsomething way, way, way\n\n807\n00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:22.760\nmore stable. Yet here I am. Here you are now. So as we go back in time, talk to\n\n808\n00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:23.600\nthe 21 version\n\n809\n00:44:23.600 --> 00:44:27.520\nyourself. Don't do it. How many people do you have working for you now?\n\n810\n00:44:27.520 --> 00:44:31.200\nThey're all in, including our retail stores. I think we have 38 people that\n\n811\n00:44:31.200 --> 00:44:32.960\nwork here. So we\n\n812\n00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:38.450\nwe're a nice size 38. Yeah, it's nice. I know everybody's name. How do you how\n\n813\n00:44:38.450 --> 00:44:39.840\ndo you use AI?\n\n814\n00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.460\nI mean, you know, in a small company like that, I mean, you know, what you're\n\n815\n00:44:43.460 --> 00:44:44.880\nthinking about AI\n\n816\n00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:50.320\nand how are you incorporating it into any of your strategies? I had somebody in\n\n817\n00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:51.120\nhere recently\n\n818\n00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.920\nfrom the creative field that said they think we use AI here more than any brand\n\n819\n00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:56.800\nthey've ever seen.\n\n820\n00:44:56.800 --> 00:45:03.360\nAnd I think that what surprised that person was that we use it more as a\n\n821\n00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.400\nproductivity tool.\n\n822\n00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:13.060\nAnd we use it as a generation of helping us flush concepts out tool. But I\n\n823\n00:45:13.060 --> 00:45:15.520\nthink that we've made\n\n824\n00:45:15.520 --> 00:45:20.030\nas you'd expect, we've made a concerted effort from day one to hire very, very\n\n825\n00:45:20.030 --> 00:45:21.280\ncreative people.\n\n826\n00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:26.880\nAnd I think the creative people are finding the best ways to interface with it\n\n827\n00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:33.200\nthat sometimes can be, sometimes can be related to their own creative process,\n\n828\n00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:39.670\ninspiration, frameworks, mood boards, things that they used to take them days\n\n829\n00:45:39.670 --> 00:45:40.400\nand days and days,\n\n830\n00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.280\nthey can now do in literally half an hour or two hours. From me, I was telling\n\n831\n00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:46.320\nsomeone recently on\n\n832\n00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:52.320\nour board that I've probably done six of these comprehensive market studies,\n\n833\n00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:58.790\nstrategy, market entry, decks in my life. And with AI now, with our data that\n\n834\n00:45:58.790 --> 00:45:59.920\nwe can plug into AI,\n\n835\n00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:04.300\nit took me about two days to do what used to take three months. So we use it as\n\n836\n00:46:04.300 --> 00:46:04.560\nabsolutely\n\n837\n00:46:04.560 --> 00:46:08.580\nas a productivity tool. I don't think that's going to change. I think that for\n\n838\n00:46:08.580 --> 00:46:08.960\nus,\n\n839\n00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:14.480\nwhat I try to do is making sure that we're not the creativity part and the new\n\n840\n00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.840\ninnovation part\n\n841\n00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:20.750\ndoesn't become subservient to AI because I personally have found the AI looks,\n\n842\n00:46:20.750 --> 00:46:21.600\nit does a really good\n\n843\n00:46:21.600 --> 00:46:26.630\njob of organizing things. It does a really good job of organizing thoughts,\n\n844\n00:46:26.630 --> 00:46:28.400\norganizing data analysis\n\n845\n00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:34.240\nto a degree. But what it doesn't do is think of new things. And so, for us,\n\n846\n00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:34.880\nthat's the most\n\n847\n00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:39.910\nimportant thing. So we always want to use it as an enabler. But this is a scary\n\n848\n00:46:39.910 --> 00:46:41.360\ntime, David. I mean,\n\n849\n00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:46.390\nwe have a group of high schoolers that come in every summer to be fully\n\n850\n00:46:46.390 --> 00:46:49.680\nimmersed in our company.\n\n851\n00:46:49.680 --> 00:46:53.600\nAnd all of them, now it's been almost 100 of them have come through the last\n\n852\n00:46:53.600 --> 00:46:54.400\ntwo summers. And\n\n853\n00:46:54.400 --> 00:46:57.550\nevery single one of them has some notion in their brain that they're going to\n\n854\n00:46:57.550 --> 00:46:59.600\nget replaced by AI.\n\n855\n00:46:59.600 --> 00:47:03.280\nAnd I say some version of it's only going to replace you if it allows you to\n\n856\n00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:03.840\nreplace you,\n\n857\n00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:09.040\nif you allow it to replace you. So think of yourself as not doing commodity\n\n858\n00:47:09.040 --> 00:47:09.760\nwork. And what's\n\n859\n00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:14.230\nthe best way to not do commodity work? Be creative and think of new ways of\n\n860\n00:47:14.230 --> 00:47:14.720\ndoing things.\n\n861\n00:47:14.720 --> 00:47:19.920\nOne of the things that you talked about earlier at Callaway, and I'm sure you\n\n862\n00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:20.800\n're doing the same\n\n863\n00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:25.660\nthing now that you're a municipal is you're a belief driver. You got to give\n\n864\n00:47:25.660 --> 00:47:26.400\npeople a sense\n\n865\n00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:29.770\nthat that's actually going to happen. When you have a startup, you got to give\n\n866\n00:47:29.770 --> 00:47:30.560\npeople a sense\n\n867\n00:47:30.560 --> 00:47:34.480\nthat you actually will build a business someday. And you got to be out there\n\n868\n00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:35.920\nleading the charge\n\n869\n00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:40.560\nthere. And I wanted to take you back to Callaway, because one of the things\n\n870\n00:47:40.560 --> 00:47:41.760\nthat I remember you\n\n871\n00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:46.960\ndid at Callaway is that you went there and the business was down and people\n\n872\n00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:47.600\nwere depressed and\n\n873\n00:47:47.600 --> 00:47:53.250\nthey weren't winning. And you declared what you called a five-year war on medi\n\n874\n00:47:53.250 --> 00:47:54.320\nocrity. And\n\n875\n00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:02.320\nthat's a bold thing to say out loud to your own company. And how do they\n\n876\n00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:02.880\nrespond?\n\n877\n00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:07.760\nI mean, it was like, you know, here you are coming in from the outside and\n\n878\n00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:08.800\nbasically tell everybody\n\n879\n00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:15.440\nperforming mediocre. I don't know if I've ever mentioned this before, but I\n\n880\n00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:16.720\ndidn't rehearse it.\n\n881\n00:48:16.720 --> 00:48:21.820\nAnd I didn't write that language down at all. And but what I really sensed, it\n\n882\n00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:22.480\nwas our first\n\n883\n00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:29.600\nopportunity as a new leadership team underneath Chip Brewer to address for all\n\n884\n00:48:29.600 --> 00:48:30.240\nall intensive\n\n885\n00:48:30.240 --> 00:48:34.720\npurposes, our entire company had a sales meeting. And so my intention was\n\n886\n00:48:34.720 --> 00:48:36.240\nreally to\n\n887\n00:48:36.240 --> 00:48:42.320\ntell them what kind of brand we were going to be and how we plan to\n\n888\n00:48:42.320 --> 00:48:50.230\nto show the brand and get behind product, you know, all the usual stuff. And I\n\n889\n00:48:50.230 --> 00:48:50.640\ncould tell\n\n890\n00:48:50.640 --> 00:48:56.200\nstanding up there that they wanted a different message than that. Because, of\n\n891\n00:48:56.200 --> 00:48:57.520\ncourse, some new\n\n892\n00:48:57.520 --> 00:49:02.550\nmarketing person is going to stand up and tell us that we have cool marketing\n\n893\n00:49:02.550 --> 00:49:03.760\ncoming. And if he's\n\n894\n00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:08.240\nany good, and I think I'm okay, he's probably going to show us what it looks\n\n895\n00:49:08.240 --> 00:49:09.280\nlike. And we're\n\n896\n00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:12.780\nprobably going to like it. But the last person, the last 10 people that stood\n\n897\n00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:14.160\nthere in that kind\n\n898\n00:49:14.160 --> 00:49:19.840\nof role did the same thing. And I could really sense that in that room. And so\n\n899\n00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:21.520\nwhat they really\n\n900\n00:49:21.520 --> 00:49:27.840\nwanted was us to say, we're going to win. We are going to win. It may not look\n\n901\n00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:28.720\nlike it now,\n\n902\n00:49:28.720 --> 00:49:33.200\nbut I can assure you that we are going to win. And we have the resources, we\n\n903\n00:49:33.200 --> 00:49:34.320\nhave the people,\n\n904\n00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:39.760\nwe have the capabilities, we have the scale, we have everything. What we don't\n\n905\n00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:40.800\nhave is\n\n906\n00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:44.820\na group of people that are all lining up under the same vision and rowing in\n\n907\n00:49:44.820 --> 00:49:46.160\nthe same direction.\n\n908\n00:49:46.160 --> 00:49:52.080\nAnd the part that wasn't rehearsed is the war part. And it just came to me\n\n909\n00:49:52.080 --> 00:49:53.360\nbecause I really\n\n910\n00:49:53.360 --> 00:50:00.040\nsaw it as the enemy. That the enemy wasn't tailor made or titleist or pink. The\n\n911\n00:50:00.040 --> 00:50:00.800\nenemy was\n\n912\n00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:06.180\nright there in those walls. And for the people that were willing to accept not\n\n913\n00:50:06.180 --> 00:50:07.440\nbeing number one.\n\n914\n00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:13.920\nAnd that really resonated. I mean, people still talk about that to this day.\n\n915\n00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.320\nAnd it was such a\n\n916\n00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:24.660\nclear reminder that the momentum begins with the belief. And creating a clear\n\n917\n00:50:24.660 --> 00:50:25.840\nvision for people\n\n918\n00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:33.140\nis the best way to get them to believe. And so I chipped as I walked off stage,\n\n919\n00:50:33.140 --> 00:50:33.600\nhe was like,\n\n920\n00:50:33.600 --> 00:50:37.120\nhey, thanks for letting me know. We're declaring war, pal. And I was like, no,\n\n921\n00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:38.320\nI swear, I swear.\n\n922\n00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:46.960\nBut he saw it too. He was like, yeah, this is exactly what they needed us to be\n\n923\n00:50:46.960 --> 00:50:47.520\nable to\n\n924\n00:50:47.520 --> 00:50:51.300\nhave them believe that winning was not only possible, but it almost felt\n\n925\n00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:52.320\ninevitable if we\n\n926\n00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:56.800\nworked together. That's great. Harry, this has been so much fun. And I want to\n\n927\n00:50:56.800 --> 00:50:57.280\nhave some more\n\n928\n00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:01.520\nwith my lightning round of questions. So are you ready for this? Fireway. What\n\n929\n00:51:01.520 --> 00:51:02.240\nthree words would\n\n930\n00:51:02.240 --> 00:51:07.920\nyour team use to describe you? They would say creative. They would say funny,\n\n931\n00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.040\nprobably.\n\n932\n00:51:09.040 --> 00:51:13.680\nAnd they would say integrity. If you could be one person for a day beside\n\n933\n00:51:13.680 --> 00:51:15.120\nyourself, who would it be?\n\n934\n00:51:15.120 --> 00:51:21.040\nI might pick Mark just to see how the heck he does that because just looking at\n\n935\n00:51:21.040 --> 00:51:21.440\nhis schedule\n\n936\n00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:26.940\nmakes me tired. You're biggest pet peeve. Aside from people that I let in\n\n937\n00:51:26.940 --> 00:51:28.160\ntraffic that don't\n\n938\n00:51:29.520 --> 00:51:36.800\nwave, it would have to be people that are ungrateful. Who would play you in a\n\n939\n00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:37.520\nmovie?\n\n940\n00:51:37.520 --> 00:51:42.550\nYoung me. Let's go Tom Holland because he's hot right now. Old me. I would say\n\n941\n00:51:42.550 --> 00:51:43.120\nRobert Redford,\n\n942\n00:51:43.120 --> 00:51:45.920\nalthough he just passed away. So that's not probably good. And Matt Damon was\n\n943\n00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:46.400\nreally good in the\n\n944\n00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:49.960\nOdyssey. So I'd pick him if Mark doesn't want to do it because he doesn't have\n\n945\n00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:51.360\nto lose as much weight.\n\n946\n00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:58.160\nThe municipal piece you wear the most often. I have a bootleg long sleeve polo.\n\n947\n00:51:58.160 --> 00:51:58.560\nI'm wearing it\n\n948\n00:51:58.560 --> 00:52:02.400\nright now actually. And my team laughs at me because I don't like showing my\n\n949\n00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:03.760\nbare arms in office,\n\n950\n00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:07.840\nbut I like to wear a polo. So they made long sleeve ones for me and I love it.\n\n951\n00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:11.680\nIf you could have lunch with Ralph Lauren, what's one question you'd ask him?\n\n952\n00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:18.660\nHow did he remain truly himself as his business got bigger and was obviously\n\n953\n00:52:18.660 --> 00:52:19.760\nsynonymous?\n\n954\n00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:26.160\nYour lowest round of golf and where were you? I shot a 69 at Pacific Dunes and\n\n955\n00:52:26.160 --> 00:52:26.720\nBandon,\n\n956\n00:52:26.720 --> 00:52:30.400\nwhich needs an asterisk because it was on a morning when there was absolutely\n\n957\n00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:30.560\nno\n\n958\n00:52:30.560 --> 00:52:34.920\nwind and it's still one of golf's most miracles. Not there was no wind, but I\n\n959\n00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:35.680\nwas under par.\n\n960\n00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:41.840\nThe one thing you do just for you? Definitely golf. It's my skate patch.\n\n961\n00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:45.760\nBesides your family and friends, what's your most prized possession?\n\n962\n00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:52.300\nMost prized possession. I have a piece of art hanging in my office that my dad\n\n963\n00:52:52.300 --> 00:52:53.280\ngave me.\n\n964\n00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:55.920\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n965\n00:52:55.920 --> 00:52:58.560\nOh, you're such a boomer. David, nobody listens to the radio anymore. You're\n\n966\n00:52:58.560 --> 00:52:59.120\ngoing to listen to\n\n967\n00:52:59.120 --> 00:53:04.480\nwho either an old-school wrestling podcast won't disclose why that might be\n\n968\n00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:12.960\nor a playlist from when all the concerts I've gone to with my daughter.\n\n969\n00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:15.440\nWhat's something about you a few people would know?\n\n970\n00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:22.200\nI don't relax easily. I think that would shock people. I'm a really poor relax\n\n971\n00:53:22.200 --> 00:53:22.720\ner.\n\n972\n00:53:22.720 --> 00:53:27.040\nWhat's a habit you have that's been instrumental to the success you've had?\n\n973\n00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:30.500\nI'm never satisfied. I don't know if that's if I have it because I don't like\n\n974\n00:53:30.500 --> 00:53:31.360\nthat about myself,\n\n975\n00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:34.960\nbut it has to do with that lack of enjoyment I mentioned earlier. I'm\n\n976\n00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:37.840\nconstantly thinking about\n\n977\n00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:41.280\nhow things can get better. We're out of the lightning around. Great job.\n\n978\n00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:44.960\nThat's it. Oh my gosh. I got a few more questions for you. I'll let you get\n\n979\n00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:45.680\nback to work here.\n\n980\n00:53:45.680 --> 00:53:50.160\nYou miss while you mission this a little bit earlier. You bring high schoolers\n\n981\n00:53:50.160 --> 00:53:51.200\nin during the\n\n982\n00:53:51.200 --> 00:53:57.120\nsummer. You have a free program also teaching high schoolers of how brands are\n\n983\n00:53:57.120 --> 00:53:57.440\nbuilt.\n\n984\n00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:04.240\nI understand this idea came from your youngest daughter. Tell us about that.\n\n985\n00:54:04.240 --> 00:54:09.760\nWe were driving around one afternoon and she really has been brought up in this\n\n986\n00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:11.200\ntransition from\n\n987\n00:54:11.200 --> 00:54:16.240\nCallaway to municipal. Oh, dad used to be Callaway guy and how your municipal.\n\n988\n00:54:16.240 --> 00:54:17.680\nShe really has been\n\n989\n00:54:17.680 --> 00:54:23.280\nswitched on my younger daughter about it and has grown up with it. When when\n\n990\n00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:24.480\nwhen COVID hit,\n\n991\n00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.600\nI would go into the office. I'd be the only one there. I'd bring her with me.\n\n992\n00:54:27.600 --> 00:54:28.320\nShe liked. She just\n\n993\n00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:33.790\nliked it. And so we're driving around one day. She's asking me a gazillion\n\n994\n00:54:33.790 --> 00:54:34.880\nquestions.\n\n995\n00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:39.810\nI'm glad that day that I was listening to them and and she goes, this would be\n\n996\n00:54:39.810 --> 00:54:41.120\nreally cool, dad,\n\n997\n00:54:41.120 --> 00:54:46.550\nif we gave other kids the opportunity to ask you stuff or learn about a\n\n998\n00:54:46.550 --> 00:54:47.760\nmunicipal or learn about\n\n999\n00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:53.910\nbusiness. And I said, that's a massive idea. And you should build that. And so\n\n1000\n00:54:53.910 --> 00:54:54.400\nshe was like,\n\n1001\n00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:56.810\nwhat do you mean? I should build it. I was like, you should figure out what\n\n1002\n00:54:56.810 --> 00:54:57.280\nthat means.\n\n1003\n00:54:57.280 --> 00:55:03.280\nIs it one day? Is it a podcast? Is it a video? And so she came back and said,\n\n1004\n00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:04.640\nwhat if they came\n\n1005\n00:55:04.640 --> 00:55:09.520\nto municipal for a day and they learned everything there is snow in a day? And\n\n1006\n00:55:09.520 --> 00:55:10.160\nI said, well, I don't\n\n1007\n00:55:10.160 --> 00:55:13.690\nthink they could do it in a day. But how about a week? And she's like, that'd\n\n1008\n00:55:13.690 --> 00:55:14.400\nbe cool. You guys\n\n1009\n00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:17.570\nshould do that. And I was like, we're not going to do that. You need to do it.\n\n1010\n00:55:17.570 --> 00:55:18.400\nIf you are that\n\n1011\n00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:22.270\npassionate about it, you should make it happen. And from that point on, she got\n\n1012\n00:55:22.270 --> 00:55:23.280\nher school involved,\n\n1013\n00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:28.880\nshe got the local schools involved. We posted it out on our socials. And we\n\n1014\n00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:29.760\nended up having kids\n\n1015\n00:55:29.760 --> 00:55:34.240\nfrom all over the country that came in and learned about not just municipal,\n\n1016\n00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:35.280\nmunicipal is just the\n\n1017\n00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:38.820\nvehicle, but they learned about all the different functions. And it gave them,\n\n1018\n00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:40.320\nwe think, the idea,\n\n1019\n00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:45.980\nor at least an education about what a real job is like and what they might be\n\n1020\n00:55:45.980 --> 00:55:47.440\ninterested in.\n\n1021\n00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:51.920\nFantastic. And what has your family taught you about leadership, Harry?\n\n1022\n00:55:51.920 --> 00:56:01.360\nPatience. Communication. I tend to, when I'm under stress, I get quiet. And I\n\n1023\n00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:02.240\nget reserved.\n\n1024\n00:56:02.240 --> 00:56:08.390\nI can maybe feel aloof. Now family's different, because they're around me. So I\n\n1025\n00:56:08.390 --> 00:56:08.960\ncan't be that\n\n1026\n00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:16.870\naloof. But they've really shown me a couple things that the impact of\n\n1027\n00:56:16.870 --> 00:56:20.400\ncommunication and the\n\n1028\n00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:26.500\nimportance of support for sure. I could never have done this without my wife's\n\n1029\n00:56:26.500 --> 00:56:27.200\nbacking and our\n\n1030\n00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:33.180\nkids being in it. We just talked about that. But bring that into work. And you\n\n1031\n00:56:33.180 --> 00:56:33.600\nthink, okay,\n\n1032\n00:56:33.600 --> 00:56:38.480\nif those two things are really critical, people feeling supported and constant\n\n1033\n00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:42.260\ncommunication, so everybody knows where they stand, good, better, and different\n\n1034\n00:56:42.260 --> 00:56:42.800\n. That's a\n\n1035\n00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:48.960\npretty powerful combination. Absolutely. And, Harry, what do you see as your\n\n1036\n00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:50.480\nunfinished business?\n\n1037\n00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:54.960\nNot only at municipal, but for you personally? It's a great question. I go in\n\n1038\n00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:55.840\nthese cycles,\n\n1039\n00:56:55.840 --> 00:57:02.760\nand I think that for municipal, we have, obviously, there's a lot of growth in\n\n1040\n00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.440\nfront of us. We're in\n\n1041\n00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:10.080\nmassive categories. We're growing like crazy. So there's still opportunity for\n\n1042\n00:57:10.080 --> 00:57:10.720\nus to grow,\n\n1043\n00:57:10.720 --> 00:57:18.880\ncontinue to make great products, continue to expand into new categories, new\n\n1044\n00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:20.160\nadjacencies, as you said.\n\n1045\n00:57:24.160 --> 00:57:31.040\nI think I'll be connected, obviously, to that growth somehow, whether that's\n\n1046\n00:57:31.040 --> 00:57:35.420\noperationally within the company, whether that's obviously as a co-founder,\n\n1047\n00:57:35.420 --> 00:57:39.040\nadvisor. I've kind of\n\n1048\n00:57:39.040 --> 00:57:45.510\nthought about that question quite a bit, because growth happens to me when you\n\n1049\n00:57:45.510 --> 00:57:46.080\nstart\n\n1050\n00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:53.600\nto see there's a version of yourself that's more compelling than the one you\n\n1051\n00:57:53.600 --> 00:57:54.640\nare right now.\n\n1052\n00:57:54.640 --> 00:58:00.160\nAnd so I kind of think about that a lot. It's one of the driving forces behind,\n\n1053\n00:58:00.160 --> 00:58:00.880\nI think, what's\n\n1054\n00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:12.000\nmade life at least enjoyable for me. And so I really think that as we continue\n\n1055\n00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:12.880\nthese\n\n1056\n00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:17.840\ntransformations and these steps, I think, as a real change agent here is\n\n1057\n00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:18.720\nimportant for me\n\n1058\n00:58:18.720 --> 00:58:26.320\nfor the company. And I think for me, it's to really never be satisfied. As long\n\n1059\n00:58:26.320 --> 00:58:26.720\nas I'm doing\n\n1060\n00:58:26.720 --> 00:58:32.260\nthat, I think that I don't really think about roles or Xs or boxes, I think, of\n\n1061\n00:58:32.260 --> 00:58:32.720\nwhat I have\n\n1062\n00:58:32.720 --> 00:58:37.360\nenergy for, and what's going to continue to make me curious, and what's going\n\n1063\n00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:38.400\nto continue to\n\n1064\n00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:45.520\nchallenge me to exercise the good parts of me. Great. And last question here.\n\n1065\n00:58:45.520 --> 00:58:49.360\nWhat's one piece of advice you give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?\n\n1066\n00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:59.200\nNever forget it's all about people. I think every strategy, every business plan\n\n1067\n00:58:59.200 --> 00:58:59.840\n, it all comes\n\n1068\n00:58:59.840 --> 00:59:05.490\ndown to people executing them. And if as a leader, you can create an\n\n1069\n00:59:05.490 --> 00:59:07.680\nenvironment where great people\n\n1070\n00:59:07.680 --> 00:59:12.560\ndo great things. That's pretty much it. Well, Harry, it's been great catching\n\n1071\n00:59:12.560 --> 00:59:13.040\nup with you.\n\n1072\n00:59:13.040 --> 00:59:18.080\nAnd congratulations on all your success. I'm glad municipal's taken off. And\n\n1073\n00:59:18.080 --> 00:59:24.240\nI'll take this free swag anytime you consider it to you. And now I'm going to\n\n1074\n00:59:24.240 --> 00:59:29.450\nput these shoes on. And I'm going to go out and play some tennis. So thank you\n\n1075\n00:59:29.450 --> 00:59:30.720\nvery much, buddy.\n\n1076\n00:59:30.720 --> 00:59:33.120\nI love it. Thanks for having me, David. It's great seeing you again.\n\n1077\n00:59:38.560 --> 00:59:42.290\nDavid, I loved that interview. I always love hearing the founder perspective\n\n1078\n00:59:42.290 --> 00:59:44.400\nand what it really\n\n1079\n00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:48.620\ntakes to start a business and get it off the ground. And I'm just so inspired\n\n1080\n00:59:48.620 --> 00:59:49.280\nby Harry's\n\n1081\n00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:53.920\nstory and everything he's done with municipal. Yeah. And I think one of the\n\n1082\n00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:54.560\nfirst big\n\n1083\n00:59:54.560 --> 00:59:59.890\nlearnings that we got from Harry was to bet on yourself. I mean, even when he\n\n1084\n00:59:59.890 --> 01:00:00.640\nwent into\n\n1085\n01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:00.640\nCallaway, we talked about that story where he told her whether it was going to\n\n1086\n01:00:00.640 --> 01:00:04.000\nfive-year\n\n1087\n01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:08.640\nwar on mediocrity. I mean, that's like putting it out there. And now you got to\n\n1088\n01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:09.840\ndeliver. And he had\n\n1089\n01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:13.580\nenough confidence that they could, that he could make a statement like that.\n\n1090\n01:00:13.580 --> 01:00:14.720\nAnd then he had to bet\n\n1091\n01:00:14.720 --> 01:00:19.100\non himself to leave the safe corporate environment of Callaway, which he was a\n\n1092\n01:00:19.100 --> 01:00:20.480\nsenior executive officer\n\n1093\n01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:26.000\nin. You know, people thought he was doing a great job and do a startup. You\n\n1094\n01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:26.720\nknow, and he had to\n\n1095\n01:00:26.720 --> 01:00:30.520\nbet on himself. And then when they had the issue in COVID and they lost her\n\n1096\n01:00:30.520 --> 01:00:31.840\nnumber one investor,\n\n1097\n01:00:31.840 --> 01:00:35.750\nhe and the co-founders had to get together and figure out how to raise the cash\n\n1098\n01:00:35.750 --> 01:00:36.960\npersonally to keep\n\n1099\n01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:41.220\nkeep everybody hired and move things along because they believed what they were\n\n1100\n01:00:41.220 --> 01:00:41.920\nworking on, what they\n\n1101\n01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:46.490\nhad was something that was going to be successful. So I think the first big\n\n1102\n01:00:46.490 --> 01:00:48.240\ninsight I got from Harry\n\n1103\n01:00:48.240 --> 01:00:53.060\nand that I think everybody should take take away from is the importance of\n\n1104\n01:00:53.060 --> 01:00:53.520\nbetting on\n\n1105\n01:00:53.520 --> 01:00:56.980\nyourself and believing that something's possible. And he's actually a big\n\n1106\n01:00:56.980 --> 01:00:58.320\nbelief builder. He built\n\n1107\n01:00:58.320 --> 01:01:02.960\nbelief at the Callaway and he's doing the same thing at municipal and helping\n\n1108\n01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:03.680\npeople understand\n\n1109\n01:01:03.680 --> 01:01:08.180\nthat they can win. I love too that he's incorporated that into the brand of\n\n1110\n01:01:08.180 --> 01:01:09.440\nmunicipal. The brand kind\n\n1111\n01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:13.760\nof asks their consumers to bet on themselves too. He talks about when people\n\n1112\n01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:15.200\nput on municipal gear,\n\n1113\n01:01:15.200 --> 01:01:20.020\nthey become a different version of themselves. So I also love how that mindset\n\n1114\n01:01:20.020 --> 01:01:22.320\nhas crept into\n\n1115\n01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:26.800\nthe design of the product and the feel of the brand too. Yeah, he's the\n\n1116\n01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:27.520\nindividual that breaks\n\n1117\n01:01:27.520 --> 01:01:31.430\nthe mold. And when you think about brand building, they like to name municipal\n\n1118\n01:01:31.430 --> 01:01:32.880\nbecause it breaks\n\n1119\n01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:36.760\nthe mold. It makes you think what it is. But there's a real reason for\n\n1120\n01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:37.920\nmunicipal because of all\n\n1121\n01:01:37.920 --> 01:01:43.040\nmunicipal golf courses, municipal pools, et cetera. This is a mainstream brand\n\n1122\n01:01:43.040 --> 01:01:43.680\nwhere they want to\n\n1123\n01:01:43.680 --> 01:01:50.800\nreally create community. And he's a very creative person and finds ways to\n\n1124\n01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:51.760\nbreak through the clutter\n\n1125\n01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:56.240\nand he's doing it at municipal. Another thing that I loved that he talked about\n\n1126\n01:01:56.240 --> 01:01:56.720\nthe episode,\n\n1127\n01:01:56.720 --> 01:02:01.540\nDavid, is how he defines culture as really who you are under stress. Talk a\n\n1128\n01:02:01.540 --> 01:02:02.960\nlittle bit about your\n\n1129\n01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:06.070\ntake on the way that he thinks about culture and what other people can learn\n\n1130\n01:02:06.070 --> 01:02:06.720\nfrom that.\n\n1131\n01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:09.360\nWell, I think what he's talking about is a work environment. If you have a\n\n1132\n01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:10.080\nreally great work\n\n1133\n01:02:10.080 --> 01:02:13.150\nenvironment, people are going to stay true to who they are no matter what the\n\n1134\n01:02:13.150 --> 01:02:13.840\nsituation is.\n\n1135\n01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:20.310\nAnd they also want to do what needs to be done so that the company or the brand\n\n1136\n01:02:20.310 --> 01:02:22.080\ncan be successful.\n\n1137\n01:02:22.080 --> 01:02:26.460\nAnd it's easy to go along when things are great. But what are you made of when\n\n1138\n01:02:26.460 --> 01:02:27.040\nthings aren't so\n\n1139\n01:02:27.040 --> 01:02:30.420\ngreat? And I think he makes a really great point there. You're going to find\n\n1140\n01:02:30.420 --> 01:02:31.360\nout how strong your\n\n1141\n01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:35.120\nculture is in the tough times because people aren't going to jump off the boat\n\n1142\n01:02:35.120 --> 01:02:35.760\nand people are going\n\n1143\n01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:39.590\nto believe in where you're headed and they're going to stay on track and help\n\n1144\n01:02:39.590 --> 01:02:40.160\nmore importantly,\n\n1145\n01:02:40.160 --> 01:02:45.360\nhelp you get out of there. So I like the definition, but I think it's a great\n\n1146\n01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:46.400\ntest of what a really\n\n1147\n01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:53.760\ngood culture should do when it's being driven appropriately.\n\n1148\n01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:58.960\nHe also talks a lot about as part of your culture, building momentum and how\n\n1149\n01:02:58.960 --> 01:02:59.520\nimportant\n\n1150\n01:02:59.520 --> 01:03:04.210\nfeeling that positive momentum can have on your team, especially in times of\n\n1151\n01:03:04.210 --> 01:03:04.960\nstress. And I just\n\n1152\n01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:09.440\nloved how he thinks about operationalizing momentum because it is such a\n\n1153\n01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:10.480\npowerful force.\n\n1154\n01:03:10.480 --> 01:03:15.330\nAnd if you can create that, it just gives people that extra umpt to do what it\n\n1155\n01:03:15.330 --> 01:03:17.200\ntakes to really win.\n\n1156\n01:03:17.200 --> 01:03:22.320\nAnd I think one of the best ways to do that cool is to use recognition\n\n1157\n01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:26.980\nand celebrate the first downs along the way. When you're going into a\n\n1158\n01:03:26.980 --> 01:03:28.480\nturnaround situation\n\n1159\n01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:34.750\nor you've got a really tough project or you're trying to start a company. It\n\n1160\n01:03:34.750 --> 01:03:35.440\ndoesn't happen\n\n1161\n01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:40.320\novernight. But he starts out with the end in mind that he has, he makes sure\n\n1162\n01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:41.120\neverybody on the team\n\n1163\n01:03:41.120 --> 01:03:46.340\nreally understands what that is. And then you need to celebrate the first downs\n\n1164\n01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:47.200\n, the progress\n\n1165\n01:03:47.200 --> 01:03:51.880\nalong the way. And then that momentum builds on momentum, builds on momentum. I\n\n1166\n01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:52.560\nalways felt it was\n\n1167\n01:03:52.560 --> 01:03:57.230\ngreat to have a great year after you had a good year, okay? Because you can\n\n1168\n01:03:57.230 --> 01:03:58.240\nbuild off of that.\n\n1169\n01:03:58.240 --> 01:04:02.720\nYou have that bad year, it's tougher because you just can't believe the\n\n1170\n01:04:02.720 --> 01:04:03.920\nnegative inertia that\n\n1171\n01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:08.400\ncomes from people not believing. And your job as a leader is to define the\n\n1172\n01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:09.280\nreality that needs\n\n1173\n01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:15.550\nto be dealt with and then create hope and then push for the execution that will\n\n1174\n01:04:15.550 --> 01:04:16.880\nultimately get\n\n1175\n01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:21.360\nyou there. It's obvious too in this conversation, David, that Harry has really\n\n1176\n01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:22.400\nevolved as a leader.\n\n1177\n01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:26.640\nI mean, you asked him about what it feels like to be pigeonholed as a marketing\n\n1178\n01:04:26.640 --> 01:04:26.960\nperson. And he\n\n1179\n01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:30.800\ntalked a little bit about the process he went through to get out of that pigeon\n\n1180\n01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:31.680\nhole and really\n\n1181\n01:04:31.680 --> 01:04:36.880\ndemonstrate that he was capable of much more than just marketing. Talk a little\n\n1182\n01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:37.680\nbit about how\n\n1183\n01:04:37.680 --> 01:04:41.080\nothers can do the same. If they're seen as one thing but want to be seen as\n\n1184\n01:04:41.080 --> 01:04:42.240\nsomething different.\n\n1185\n01:04:42.240 --> 01:04:45.950\nWell, I think the important thing to do is to understand how you are seen,\n\n1186\n01:04:45.950 --> 01:04:46.880\ndefine reality\n\n1187\n01:04:46.880 --> 01:04:55.120\nfor yourself, and then develop an action plan to change the perception that\n\n1188\n01:04:55.120 --> 01:04:56.480\npeople might have\n\n1189\n01:04:56.480 --> 01:05:00.200\nof you. If you are pigeonholed as a finance person or marketing person or\n\n1190\n01:05:00.200 --> 01:05:01.200\noperations person,\n\n1191\n01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:06.880\nit really doesn't matter. You have to know what you have to get better at and\n\n1192\n01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:07.760\nthen get better at it.\n\n1193\n01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:15.600\nAnd I think when you're really a great marketing person, you know, for example,\n\n1194\n01:05:15.600 --> 01:05:19.310\nthat that's your core strength and you love it. It's easy to stay right where\n\n1195\n01:05:19.310 --> 01:05:19.840\nyou're at.\n\n1196\n01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:25.200\nBut what he talked about doing was do something that makes you uncomfortable,\n\n1197\n01:05:25.200 --> 01:05:28.660\nsomething that scares the hell out of you. And that's usually moving into an\n\n1198\n01:05:28.660 --> 01:05:29.440\narea that you know\n\n1199\n01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:34.260\nnothing about and diving in and learning about it so that you can be capable at\n\n1200\n01:05:34.260 --> 01:05:34.400\nit.\n\n1201\n01:05:34.400 --> 01:05:39.280\nAnd you know, I think that's important. I think it's also important to have\n\n1202\n01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:40.320\nmentors and coaches\n\n1203\n01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:44.790\nthat can help you get there. So when you go there and you ask for the\n\n1204\n01:05:44.790 --> 01:05:46.160\nexperience that you need to\n\n1205\n01:05:46.160 --> 01:05:50.880\ngrow yourself, they're going to give it to you. And I think that takes courage\n\n1206\n01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:51.760\nas well. But it all\n\n1207\n01:05:51.760 --> 01:05:56.420\ncomes back to if you're going to bet on yourself, you better make yourself\n\n1208\n01:05:56.420 --> 01:05:58.720\nbetter and keep improving\n\n1209\n01:05:58.720 --> 01:06:03.190\nand so that you had more and more value to whatever entity you happen to be a\n\n1210\n01:06:03.190 --> 01:06:03.440\npart of.\n\n1211\n01:06:03.440 --> 01:06:08.260\nHe talks about it in the conversation too, David. You know, pivotal to evolving\n\n1212\n01:06:08.260 --> 01:06:08.720\nas a leader,\n\n1213\n01:06:08.720 --> 01:06:12.940\nas self-awareness. And you talked about defining reality for yourself. But I\n\n1214\n01:06:12.940 --> 01:06:13.760\nthink it's very clear\n\n1215\n01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:17.670\nthat Harry, as he became more self-aware, especially around his creativity and\n\n1216\n01:06:17.670 --> 01:06:18.480\nthe things that he was\n\n1217\n01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:23.300\ngood at, he was then able to more swiftly move into a different sort of\n\n1218\n01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:24.960\nposition. So I mean,\n\n1219\n01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:28.480\nwe talk about it a lot on this show, but it's just so critical to have that\n\n1220\n01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:29.120\nself-awareness\n\n1221\n01:06:29.120 --> 01:06:33.500\nand really understand not only how others see you, but how you exist in those\n\n1222\n01:06:33.500 --> 01:06:34.320\nenvironments.\n\n1223\n01:06:34.320 --> 01:06:37.520\nYeah. And he has lots of ideas. So it'd be easy for him. And like he says to go\n\n1224\n01:06:37.520 --> 01:06:38.000\nin a meeting and\n\n1225\n01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:41.140\ntell everybody, \"We got to do this. We got to do that. We got to do this.\" But\n\n1226\n01:06:41.140 --> 01:06:41.760\nI think he's learned\n\n1227\n01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:50.000\nto keep his listening mode into full gear until the end. And then maybe he can\n\n1228\n01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:51.200\nkind of chime in at\n\n1229\n01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:56.520\nthe end and summarize and inspire people to move on what might be the best idea\n\n1230\n01:06:56.520 --> 01:06:58.480\n. So I've always felt\n\n1231\n01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:03.510\nthat if you're a creative person or a leader, you've got to be able to go into\n\n1232\n01:07:03.510 --> 01:07:05.040\nthe room by yourself.\n\n1233\n01:07:05.040 --> 01:07:10.560\nAnd if you have to, come up with an idea. Now, hopefully you can get those\n\n1234\n01:07:10.560 --> 01:07:11.280\nideas from other\n\n1235\n01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:16.560\npeople, inspire other people to make that happen. But sometimes, the leader\n\n1236\n01:07:16.560 --> 01:07:18.320\njust has to go into\n\n1237\n01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:23.350\nroom, come up with an idea and believe in it, and then get other people to\n\n1238\n01:07:23.350 --> 01:07:24.400\nbelieve in it.\n\n1239\n01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:28.960\nSo it's the combination of bringing out other people, but also knowing that if\n\n1240\n01:07:28.960 --> 01:07:29.520\nyou don't have\n\n1241\n01:07:29.520 --> 01:07:34.560\nthat idea, you better get one. And your job is to make sure you have one. And\n\n1242\n01:07:34.560 --> 01:07:36.400\nso you can only\n\n1243\n01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:40.880\ndelegate so far, but you definitely want to make that your job number one.\n\n1244\n01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:42.640\nAbsolutely. So David,\n\n1245\n01:07:42.640 --> 01:07:46.480\nother thing going out and maybe purchasing a municipal hoodie, what do you want\n\n1246\n01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:47.360\npeople to leave\n\n1247\n01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:52.480\nthis conversation really thinking about? Well, I think number one, we talked\n\n1248\n01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:53.120\nabout it,\n\n1249\n01:07:53.120 --> 01:07:58.800\nbet on yourself. Number two, you know, remember that your culture is really\n\n1250\n01:07:58.800 --> 01:07:59.920\ntested under times of\n\n1251\n01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:04.400\nstress. And that's when you can find out how much progress you're really making\n\n1252\n01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:05.360\n. And third,\n\n1253\n01:08:05.360 --> 01:08:09.200\nyou know, evolve as a leader. Know what you have to get better at and come up\n\n1254\n01:08:09.200 --> 01:08:10.240\nwith a game plan\n\n1255\n01:08:10.240 --> 01:08:14.590\nand action plan that allow you to do just that. I think those are three of the\n\n1256\n01:08:14.590 --> 01:08:15.360\nmany insights that\n\n1257\n01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:18.960\nI picked up from Harry. And it was great reconnecting with him and seeing the\n\n1258\n01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:21.120\nsuccess that he is\n\n1259\n01:08:21.120 --> 01:08:25.600\ngenerating with his team. I love it. Well, David, thank you again for another\n\n1260\n01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:26.640\nepisode of How Leaders\n\n1261\n01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:30.100\nLead. Thank you, Harry, for joining us for the show. And thank you, of course,\n\n1262\n01:08:30.100 --> 01:08:31.520\nto our listeners.\n\n1263\n01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:33.600\nTune in next week, and we will see you soon.\n","is_pinned",false,"pinned_at","is_featured","featured_at","mix_url","https://chtbl.com/track/DCB44F/traffic.megaphone.fm/DVL8025662476.mp3","dx_media_id",4224,"video_media_id","thumbnail_image_media_id","published_date","2026-08-20","itunes_episode_id",305,"youtube_id","W4uQRPGsBD0","2026-08-20T17:17:41.000000Z","Listen to this leadership podcast with Harry Arnett, Cofounder & CEO of MUNICIPAL, and discover how to bet on yourself and make a big career change.","dx_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/g6GrmtZblFKuNo0hGRHvqJoDe2Pk7LlZpOWUs1u2.mp3","dx_filename","g6GrmtZblFKuNo0hGRHvqJoDe2Pk7LlZpOWUs1u2.mp3","dx_mux_playback_id","02luEbG3aZLLmNbgFY4kapmSsDnl00OTYWKlNf007t4Kek","dx_waveform_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/waveforms/4224.json","video_url","video_mux_playback_id","duration",4123655,"thumbnail_url","https://img.youtube.com/vi/W4uQRPGsBD0/maxresdefault.jpg","thumbnail_image_url","dx_media",{"_13":66,"_96":80,"_97":78,"_98":99,"_31":82,"_33":100,"_101":-5,"_102":84,"_87":88,"_103":-5},"video_media","thumbnail_image_media","filename","url","status","ready","Z6lqyexeAzVpQUnU86E8EA009X1OzmbCF400TIk01rw7P8","mux_upload_id","waveform_url","preview_media_id","first_name","Harry","last_name","Arnett","job_title","MUNICIPAL, Cofounder and CEO","Harry Arnett, Municipal, founder, CEO, entrepreneur, entrepreneurship, fashion, apparel","external_links","https://www.instagram.com/harryarnett/,https://www.linkedin.com/in/harry-arnett-8a32482,https://www.entrepreneur.com/starting-a-business/we-live-the-brand-why-mark-wahlberg-and-harry-arnett/496495",0,"image_media_id",4205,4206,"2026-08-12T15:32:18.000000Z","send_push_notification_at","2026-08-24T19:00:00.000000Z","image_url","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/VgO0E5uct0aWdTEnftKYQ11dqOd4ZeZPptsSBUVb.png","https://dnl.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/uploads/q2IveNPTzhbXNJpLwxrkw4tPWavNZCtAj87mGt2w.png","https://www.howleaderslead.com/leaders/294/harry-arnett","industry_id",4,"industry",{"_13":125,"_136":137,"_138":140},"industries",[135],"image_media",{"_13":115,"_96":134,"_97":121,"_98":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_101":-5,"_102":-5,"_87":-5,"_103":-5},{"_13":116,"_96":133,"_97":122,"_98":-5,"_31":-5,"_33":-5,"_101":-5,"_102":-5,"_87":-5,"_103":-5},"q2IveNPTzhbXNJpLwxrkw4tPWavNZCtAj87mGt2w.png","VgO0E5uct0aWdTEnftKYQ11dqOd4ZeZPptsSBUVb.png",{"_13":125,"_136":137,"_138":139},"name","Retail and E-commerce","pivot",{"_35":36,"_124":125},{"_35":36,"_124":125},"user","token","favorites",[],"collections",[],"env",{"_149":150,"_151":152,"_153":154,"_155":156,"_157":158},"GOOGLE_CLIENT_ID","644017954836-qpllhu38r0tsrtfq85ukntcvsb0akbht.apps.googleusercontent.com","APPLE_CLIENT_ID","com.howleaderslead.webapp","APPLE_REDIRECT_URI","https://www.howleaderslead.com/auth/apple-callback","APP_URL","https://howleaderslead.com","GTM_ID",""]