[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_137":-5,"_138":-5,"_139":140,"_141":142,"_143":144},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/2261/stay-even-keeled-in-both-good-times-and-bad","id",2261,"title","Stay even-keeled, in both good times and bad","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.400\nAnd my father would always tell us, you can never get too high and you can\n\n2\n00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:05.360\nnever get too low,\n\n3\n00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.610\nno matter how things shake out. And I watched him navigate life. And I think as\n\n4\n00:00:09.610 --> 00:00:10.560\nyou lead a company\n\n5\n00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:14.070\nlike this, you're always going to have highs and you're always going to have\n\n6\n00:00:14.070 --> 00:00:15.120\nlows. And one of the\n\n7\n00:00:15.120 --> 00:00:20.950\nthings that I think I've learned since I became the CEO is that how the CEO\n\n8\n00:00:20.950 --> 00:00:23.120\nsets the tone is how\n\n9\n00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:27.980\nthe tone goes for the entire company. And so I think it's really important that\n\n10\n00:00:27.980 --> 00:00:28.480\n, you know,\n\n11\n00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.920\nwhen things are going well, you stay even keel, but when things aren't going so\n\n12\n00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:32.080\nwell,\n\n13\n00:00:32.080 --> 00:00:37.120\nyou also stay even keel, but by staying even keel and not getting too emotional\n\n14\n00:00:37.120 --> 00:00:38.240\nover things,\n\n15\n00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.640\nit allows you to focus and to problem solve, right? You don't want to be\n\n16\n00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:43.600\nassessing blame. You want\n\n17\n00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:48.260\nto problem solve. And I think that's been important. So for me, my leadership\n\n18\n00:00:48.260 --> 00:00:49.760\nstyle has always been\n\n19\n00:00:49.760 --> 00:00:54.970\none that is balanced, never get too high, never get too low and just continue\n\n20\n00:00:54.970 --> 00:00:55.520\nto focus.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",216860,"end_time",271479,"keywords","Mindset, emotional intelligence, EQ, emotions, balance, even keeled, problem solving,","slug","stay-even-keeled-in-both-good-times-and-bad","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","O8bVtTkDiNxeHOrkjrpIMLC6tGs24scu7cMEFWniZNM","mux_asset_id","BkbaqBybfxXNVQMSQE6e01gsZJAzv5T45Ap00bI02VWpcQ","leader_id",180,"episode_id",330,"updated_at","2025-03-07T15:44:03.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/2261/stay-even-keeled-in-both-good-times-and-bad","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_101":102,"_103":104,"_105":106,"_25":107,"_108":109,"_62":110,"_59":110,"_111":112,"_69":113,"_39":114,"_115":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_116":117,"_89":118,"_44":119,"_120":121,"_122":123,"_46":-5,"_124":125,"_126":127,"_93":128,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":54,"_55":56,"_18":57,"_20":58,"_59":60,"_61":-5,"_62":60,"_63":-5,"_64":65,"_66":67,"_68":-5,"_69":-5,"_70":71,"_72":73,"_74":-5,"_35":36,"_39":75,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_76":77,"_78":79,"_80":81,"_82":83,"_84":-5,"_85":-5,"_86":87,"_88":-5,"_89":-5,"_46":-5,"_90":91,"_92":-5,"_93":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","Make self-reflection a habit","make-self-reflection-a-habit","Learn how to supercharge your development by embracing feedback and self-reflection. Discover the four questions you can ask your team in a new role. Plus, practical insights to help you navigate hybrid, remote, and in-person work decisions.","summary","

As leaders, we all want to get better. But we often overlook the level of self-reflection it takes to actually improve.

It can be really uncomfortable to ask for feedback and reflect honestly on your shortcomings.

If you want to learn to embrace self-reflection and feedback, listen to this episode with Steve Squeri, the CEO and Chairman of American Express.

He’s a phenomenal example of how that mindset can unlock incredible new growth for you!

You’ll also learn:

Practical strategies to navigate hybrid and in-person working decisions
Four powerful questions to ask your team when you start a new role
One mistake you don’t want to make as a manager or supervisor
Why staying even-keeled is a leadership superpower

","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.960\nBefore we get going with today's episode, I am so excited to announce that\n\n2\n00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:05.520\nDavid's new\n\n3\n00:00:05.520 --> 00:00:09.480\nbook, How Leaders Learn is available for pre-order now.\n\n4\n00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.420\nThe book is all about helping you master the habit of active learning, which is\n\n5\n00:00:13.420 --> 00:00:13.880\nthe number\n\n6\n00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.320\none skill of the world's most successful leaders.\n\n7\n00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:20.680\nDavid's new book, How Leaders Learn, will teach you how to become an active\n\n8\n00:00:20.680 --> 00:00:21.360\nlearner so\n\n9\n00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:25.850\nthat you too can experience success you really want to see in your life and in\n\n10\n00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:26.880\nyour career.\n\n11\n00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:31.550\nPre-order the book today and then forward your receipt to book@howleaderslead.\n\n12\n00:00:31.550 --> 00:00:32.240\ncom so you can\n\n13\n00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:37.410\nget immediate access to exclusive bonus content including an audio summary from\n\n14\n00:00:37.410 --> 00:00:38.640\nDavid himself.\n\n15\n00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:42.870\nPre-order How Leaders Learn today, then forward your receipt to book@howleaders\n\n16\n00:00:42.870 --> 00:00:43.720\nlead.com and\n\n17\n00:00:43.720 --> 00:00:46.320\nget excited to get your book in the mail.\n\n18\n00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:53.520\nI promise you're going to love it.\n\n19\n00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.390\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I\n\n20\n00:00:56.390 --> 00:00:57.160\ninterview some\n\n21\n00:00:57.160 --> 00:00:59.120\nof the very best leaders in the world.\n\n22\n00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:02.680\nI break down the key learnings of the end of the episode.\n\n23\n00:01:02.680 --> 00:01:06.920\nYou'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader.\n\n24\n00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:09.480\nThat's what this podcast is all about.\n\n25\n00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:14.320\nMy guest today is Steve Squery, the CEO and Chairman of American Express.\n\n26\n00:01:14.320 --> 00:01:18.800\nAnd I got to tell you, it takes a really special leader to lead an iconic brand\n\n27\n00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:19.560\nthat's been\n\n28\n00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:26.320\naround for 174 years and keep taking it to higher and higher heights.\n\n29\n00:01:26.320 --> 00:01:29.200\nAnd Steve is definitely that guy.\n\n30\n00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.730\nOne of the many things I like about Steve is his willingness to seek out\n\n31\n00:01:32.730 --> 00:01:33.440\nfeedback and\n\n32\n00:01:33.440 --> 00:01:37.640\nhonestly ask himself what he could be doing better.\n\n33\n00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:42.200\nYou know, we all want to improve his leaders, but sometimes we overlook the\n\n34\n00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:43.760\namount of self-reflection\n\n35\n00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:45.960\nit takes to actually do it.\n\n36\n00:01:45.960 --> 00:01:51.430\nIt can be really uncomfortable to ask for feedback and create space for honest\n\n37\n00:01:51.430 --> 00:01:53.240\nself-reflection.\n\n38\n00:01:53.240 --> 00:01:58.360\nBut boy, when you develop that habit, it's like giving yourself rocket fuel.\n\n39\n00:01:58.360 --> 00:02:02.240\nAnd Steve is a phenomenal example of that mindset.\n\n40\n00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:04.720\nI know you're going to learn so much today.\n\n41\n00:02:04.720 --> 00:02:09.500\nSo here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be yours, Steve Squ\n\n42\n00:02:09.500 --> 00:02:10.000\nery.\n\n43\n00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:19.200\nYou know, Steve, I've had a lot of fun with you in the past.\n\n44\n00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:21.640\nWe've had the opportunity to play a little bit of golf.\n\n45\n00:02:21.640 --> 00:02:25.770\nAnd there's that old saying that you can learn a lot about a person by playing\n\n46\n00:02:25.770 --> 00:02:26.240\naround\n\n47\n00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:27.240\na golf with them.\n\n48\n00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:31.850\nAnd one thing I learned when we played is that when it was time to tee off, you\n\n49\n00:02:31.850 --> 00:02:32.360\nreally\n\n50\n00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:34.480\nwanted that scorecard.\n\n51\n00:02:34.480 --> 00:02:36.600\nYou wanted to keep score.\n\n52\n00:02:36.600 --> 00:02:39.320\nWhat's that say about your leadership style?\n\n53\n00:02:39.320 --> 00:02:43.680\nMy leadership style is one that I get into the detail.\n\n54\n00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.480\nAnd I think to use a golf analogy, I tee it up all the time.\n\n55\n00:02:47.480 --> 00:02:49.320\nI mean, I tee it up 24/7.\n\n56\n00:02:49.320 --> 00:02:54.400\nI think when you're in a role like this, these jobs are all consuming.\n\n57\n00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:59.100\nAnd if you're not willing to go that extra mile, if you're not willing to grind\n\n58\n00:02:59.100 --> 00:02:59.520\nand you're\n\n59\n00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:03.590\nnot willing to commit to being the best possible leader that you can be, then\n\n60\n00:03:03.590 --> 00:03:04.240\nyou shouldn't\n\n61\n00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:05.840\nbe in these jobs.\n\n62\n00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.960\nAnd that's one of the things I really loved about playing with you.\n\n63\n00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:13.040\nWe had a good time and you grind and you try on every hole and you're cheering\n\n64\n00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:13.440\nme on the\n\n65\n00:03:13.440 --> 00:03:19.050\nwhole way and you stay positive even when things weren't necessarily going our\n\n66\n00:03:19.050 --> 00:03:19.680\nway.\n\n67\n00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.840\nHow does that mindset show up in the way how you run American Express?\n\n68\n00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.540\nYeah, I think it's something that I learned from my parents, especially my\n\n69\n00:03:27.540 --> 00:03:28.320\nfather, you\n\n70\n00:03:28.320 --> 00:03:32.770\nknow, I mean, in growing up, family of Italian immigrants, my father was the\n\n71\n00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:33.560\nfirst one in\n\n72\n00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.400\nthe family really to go to college.\n\n73\n00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.160\nAnd my father would always tell us, you can never get too high and you can\n\n74\n00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:40.720\nnever get\n\n75\n00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:43.120\ntoo low, no matter how things shake out.\n\n76\n00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:45.000\nAnd I watched him navigate life.\n\n77\n00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.660\nAnd I think as you lead a company like this, you're always going to have highs\n\n78\n00:03:48.660 --> 00:03:49.320\nand you're\n\n79\n00:03:49.320 --> 00:03:50.720\nalways going to have lows.\n\n80\n00:03:50.720 --> 00:03:56.060\nAnd one of the things that I think I've learned since I became the CEO is that\n\n81\n00:03:56.060 --> 00:03:57.040\nhow the CEO\n\n82\n00:03:57.040 --> 00:04:01.400\nsets the tone is how the tone goes for the entire company.\n\n83\n00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:05.180\nAnd so I think it's really important that, you know, when things are going well\n\n84\n00:04:05.180 --> 00:04:05.560\n, you\n\n85\n00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.600\nstay even keel, but when things aren't going so well, you also stay even keel.\n\n86\n00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:14.580\nBut by staying even keel and not getting too emotional over things, it allows\n\n87\n00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:16.200\nyou to focus\n\n88\n00:04:16.200 --> 00:04:18.120\nand to problem solve, right?\n\n89\n00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:19.400\nYou don't want to be assessing blame.\n\n90\n00:04:19.400 --> 00:04:21.240\nYou want to problem solve.\n\n91\n00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.320\nAnd I think that's been important.\n\n92\n00:04:22.320 --> 00:04:28.350\nSo for me, my leadership style has always been one that is balanced, never get\n\n93\n00:04:28.350 --> 00:04:29.120\ntoo high,\n\n94\n00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.760\nnever get too low and just continue to focus.\n\n95\n00:04:31.760 --> 00:04:35.560\nAnd you're a really fierce competitor and as you mentioned, you are grinder.\n\n96\n00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:37.120\nYou never give up.\n\n97\n00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:42.160\nTell us a story in the business setting where this really paid off for you and\n\n98\n00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.200\nthe team.\n\n99\n00:04:43.200 --> 00:04:50.400\nI'll go back years and years ago when Y2K was, you know, around.\n\n100\n00:04:50.400 --> 00:04:54.840\nAnd what was interesting about that is this goes back to 1997.\n\n101\n00:04:54.840 --> 00:04:59.060\nAnd the reason I'll pick this story is because it had such a huge impact on the\n\n102\n00:04:59.060 --> 00:04:59.800\ncompany at\n\n103\n00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.240\nthat particular point in time.\n\n104\n00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:06.880\nAnd I remember Harvey Gollib was the CEO at the time.\n\n105\n00:05:06.880 --> 00:05:11.160\nAnd we needed somebody to lead Y2K for the company.\n\n106\n00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:15.360\nAnd I was in a room with other senior executives, some more senior than me.\n\n107\n00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.920\nAnd I volunteered, you know, for that role.\n\n108\n00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:22.220\nAnd people sort of snicker at me when I volunteered for that role because they\n\n109\n00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:22.840\nsaid, you know,\n\n110\n00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:26.360\nif you kind of screwed this thing up, your career is over.\n\n111\n00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:30.400\nAnd I said to them, if I screwed this thing up, everybody's career is over.\n\n112\n00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:31.400\nRight?\n\n113\n00:05:31.400 --> 00:05:36.720\nAnd so, you know, what for me, what I needed to do there was not only do my\n\n114\n00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:37.920\nexisting job,\n\n115\n00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:44.200\nbut I had to find the bandwidth to do this extra function and do it well.\n\n116\n00:05:44.200 --> 00:05:48.910\nAnd the lesson there that people should take out of that is that when you have\n\n117\n00:05:48.910 --> 00:05:49.960\nan opportunity\n\n118\n00:05:49.960 --> 00:05:56.050\nto volunteer to make an impact in a company, season, there's no reward without\n\n119\n00:05:56.050 --> 00:05:56.760\nrisk.\n\n120\n00:05:56.760 --> 00:06:02.360\nAnd it gave me tremendous exposure to Harvey, to Ken Shinault, to the board.\n\n121\n00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:04.400\nAnd it really set me up later on.\n\n122\n00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:07.720\nAnd it made a difference because, look, we were able to navigate.\n\n123\n00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:09.600\nIt was a two and a half year assignment.\n\n124\n00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.120\nWe navigated through the entire Y2K situation.\n\n125\n00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:17.200\nAnd obviously, like other companies, we came out on the other side, fine, but\n\n126\n00:06:17.200 --> 00:06:17.560\nyou didn't\n\n127\n00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:19.040\nknow that at the time.\n\n128\n00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:24.050\nAnd so, for me, it showed that you really had a grind at that point because\n\n129\n00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:24.960\nthink about\n\n130\n00:06:24.960 --> 00:06:27.160\ndoing your current job, which was a big job.\n\n131\n00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:30.950\nI was a senior vice president, which wanted to top 140 jobs at the company at\n\n132\n00:06:30.950 --> 00:06:31.640\nthe time.\n\n133\n00:06:31.640 --> 00:06:34.730\nBut then also doing this other job, which quite honestly could have been done\n\n134\n00:06:34.730 --> 00:06:35.440\non a full-time\n\n135\n00:06:35.440 --> 00:06:36.440\nbasis.\n\n136\n00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:40.800\nYou know, you've been at American Express for almost 40 years.\n\n137\n00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:45.990\nWhat did mean to you, Steve, to get chosen internally and get that nod to be\n\n138\n00:06:45.990 --> 00:06:46.840\nthe CEO?\n\n139\n00:06:46.840 --> 00:06:49.800\nI mean, American Express is one of the premier brands of the world, premier\n\n140\n00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:50.400\ncompanies of\n\n141\n00:06:50.400 --> 00:06:51.400\nthe world.\n\n142\n00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:52.400\nYou could go outside.\n\n143\n00:06:52.400 --> 00:06:55.240\nYou could get really, really amazing talent.\n\n144\n00:06:55.240 --> 00:07:00.020\nIt's interesting because people said to me, what was your path to, you know, to\n\n145\n00:07:00.020 --> 00:07:00.400\nCEO?\n\n146\n00:07:00.400 --> 00:07:02.680\nAnd it's not something I ever focused on.\n\n147\n00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:07.290\nI mean, I just, look, growing up, the way I grew up, you know, it's not a\n\n148\n00:07:07.290 --> 00:07:08.480\nsilver spoon.\n\n149\n00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:12.300\nIt, you know, I'd risen to the level of vice chairman in the company, which was\n\n150\n00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:13.040\n, you know,\n\n151\n00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:17.200\nprobably 10 levels beyond my wildest dreams at that point.\n\n152\n00:07:17.200 --> 00:07:22.400\nAnd so when Ken said to me, look, you're going to be the next chairman and CEO.\n\n153\n00:07:22.400 --> 00:07:26.190\nAnd he told me this at Shinnecock, by the way, I said to him, you know, it's\n\n154\n00:07:26.190 --> 00:07:26.800\npretty hot\n\n155\n00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:27.800\nout there.\n\n156\n00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:32.370\nHe'd have heat stroke, you know, but he said, look, I think you are the guy\n\n157\n00:07:32.370 --> 00:07:33.040\nthat can lead\n\n158\n00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.400\nthis company going forward.\n\n159\n00:07:35.400 --> 00:07:39.350\nAnd David, when you start at a company at pretty much the entry level at a\n\n160\n00:07:39.350 --> 00:07:41.280\nmanager position,\n\n161\n00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:43.480\nyou're at the company for 32 years.\n\n162\n00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:49.200\nAnd one of the most respected CEOs in the world tells you that he wants you to\n\n163\n00:07:49.200 --> 00:07:51.120\nsucceed him.\n\n164\n00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.680\nIt's not a dream come true because it's not a dream you ever had, right?\n\n165\n00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:56.280\nIt's just an honor.\n\n166\n00:07:56.280 --> 00:07:58.240\nYou know, I was flabbergasted by that.\n\n167\n00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:01.280\nI was humbled by it.\n\n168\n00:08:01.280 --> 00:08:04.560\nAnd you know, it's also a huge burden, though, too, right?\n\n169\n00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:08.240\nBecause, you know, when you are chosen to lead a company like this, I'm like\n\n170\n00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:09.280\nthe 12th CEO\n\n171\n00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:13.080\nin the history of 174-year-old company.\n\n172\n00:08:13.080 --> 00:08:14.640\nAnd so just think about that.\n\n173\n00:08:14.640 --> 00:08:16.640\nThat's an awesome responsibility.\n\n174\n00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:23.240\nBut more importantly, you now have responsibility for 75,000 colleagues.\n\n175\n00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:28.640\nThe decisions that you make impact people's lives on an ongoing basis.\n\n176\n00:08:28.640 --> 00:08:31.280\nAnd you have to realize that that's all part of it.\n\n177\n00:08:31.280 --> 00:08:35.180\nAnd I think the other thing you have to realize is that when you're leading a\n\n178\n00:08:35.180 --> 00:08:35.960\ncompany like\n\n179\n00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.960\nthis, the company is not here to serve you.\n\n180\n00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:42.560\nYou are here to serve the company.\n\n181\n00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:46.620\nAnd you have to inconvenience yourself to convenience the many, which is the\n\n182\n00:08:46.620 --> 00:08:47.320\ncolleagues\n\n183\n00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:48.320\nin our company.\n\n184\n00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:53.370\nAnd so being here 33 years, ascending to this position, it's really\n\n185\n00:08:53.370 --> 00:08:54.560\nunbelievable.\n\n186\n00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:58.150\nI mean, I can come into the office on some days and just pinch myself and\n\n187\n00:08:58.150 --> 00:08:59.000\nwonder if somebody's\n\n188\n00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:01.800\njust going to say, hey, you know what, the gig is up.\n\n189\n00:09:01.800 --> 00:09:02.800\nIt was a joke.\n\n190\n00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:05.800\nAnd you know, you're no longer going to be the CEO anymore.\n\n191\n00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:07.840\nWell, it's interesting.\n\n192\n00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:12.300\nYou made a comment that you have to inconvenience yourself to convenience the\n\n193\n00:09:12.300 --> 00:09:12.840\nmany.\n\n194\n00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.720\nWhat do you mean by that exactly?\n\n195\n00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:16.200\nYou know, I'll give you a great example.\n\n196\n00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.400\nI was doing a town hall, you know, a few years ago.\n\n197\n00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:23.680\nAnd we're going to do a town hall, you know, virtually for our Australian\n\n198\n00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:24.520\ncolleagues.\n\n199\n00:09:24.520 --> 00:09:29.850\nWell, yeah, it'd be great to do the town hall, you know, at like 12 o'clock in\n\n200\n00:09:29.850 --> 00:09:30.680\nafternoon\n\n201\n00:09:30.680 --> 00:09:32.440\nyour time.\n\n202\n00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:35.760\nBut that's four in the morning in Australia.\n\n203\n00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:40.280\nSo instead, do the town hall at midnight when it's four in the afternoon in\n\n204\n00:09:40.280 --> 00:09:41.280\nAustralia.\n\n205\n00:09:41.280 --> 00:09:43.680\nI mean, it's those kinds of things.\n\n206\n00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:48.160\nAnd it's sent, I will tell you this, it sends a huge message to people that,\n\n207\n00:09:48.160 --> 00:09:48.960\nyou know, you're\n\n208\n00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.520\nwilling to go out of your way so that they don't have to go out of their way.\n\n209\n00:09:54.520 --> 00:09:58.670\nAnd if you think about the amount of time and effort that, and you see this in\n\n210\n00:09:58.670 --> 00:09:59.200\na number\n\n211\n00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:05.130\nof companies where people do somersaults and backflips to acquiesce to\n\n212\n00:10:05.130 --> 00:10:06.440\nleadership, the\n\n213\n00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:11.480\nreality is leadership should be doing somersaults and backflips to acquiesce to\n\n214\n00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:12.000\nthe colleague\n\n215\n00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:13.240\nbase.\n\n216\n00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:14.240\nThat's the way it should be.\n\n217\n00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.250\nAnd so you need to put yourself out of out of your comfort zone to support your\n\n218\n00:10:18.250 --> 00:10:18.720\npeople\n\n219\n00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.680\nbecause ultimately they're doing the really hard work, right?\n\n220\n00:10:22.680 --> 00:10:26.080\nThey are really doing the hard work here and doing a heavy lifting.\n\n221\n00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:31.070\nYou know, speaking of hard work, you know, a lot of people I talk to,\n\n222\n00:10:31.070 --> 00:10:32.320\nespecially CEOs\n\n223\n00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:36.920\nthat used to be CEOs, they say they wouldn't want to be a CEO today.\n\n224\n00:10:36.920 --> 00:10:42.080\nIt is kind of an environment because you've got social media, all this pressure\n\n225\n00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:42.840\non diversity\n\n226\n00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:47.040\nand inclusion and all the governance issues.\n\n227\n00:10:47.040 --> 00:10:48.960\nHow do you think about that, Steve?\n\n228\n00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.400\nWell, I think, look, you know, I've always said if you don't want to see it on\n\n229\n00:10:52.400 --> 00:10:53.000\nthe front\n\n230\n00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:54.960\nof the Wall Street Journal, then don't do it.\n\n231\n00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:56.920\nYou just tell my kids that.\n\n232\n00:10:56.920 --> 00:11:01.800\nAs I think about it, it goes back to the values of the company.\n\n233\n00:11:01.800 --> 00:11:05.270\nWhen we make decisions, you know, we try and make decisions, are they within\n\n234\n00:11:05.270 --> 00:11:06.200\nour values\n\n235\n00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.360\nand our values really drive our culture.\n\n236\n00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.390\nAnd if you're not willing to take the heat sometimes and get out of the kitchen\n\n237\n00:11:13.390 --> 00:11:13.800\nas the\n\n238\n00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:15.480\nold expression goes.\n\n239\n00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:20.200\nAnd so it's very different, I think, today being a CEO than it was, you know,\n\n240\n00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:20.760\nprobably\n\n241\n00:11:20.760 --> 00:11:22.320\njust four or five years ago.\n\n242\n00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:27.120\nI mean, between, you know, social media, the number of issues that are out\n\n243\n00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:27.880\nthere that\n\n244\n00:11:27.880 --> 00:11:32.110\nyou have to face, whether they're from a diversity perspective, a social,\n\n245\n00:11:32.110 --> 00:11:33.560\ngovernmental, what have\n\n246\n00:11:33.560 --> 00:11:34.560\nyou.\n\n247\n00:11:34.560 --> 00:11:38.620\nAnd I think, you know, for us, what really guides us is we use our values to\n\n248\n00:11:38.620 --> 00:11:39.080\nguide our\n\n249\n00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:45.400\ndecisions and we try and do what's right for our colleagues and our customers.\n\n250\n00:11:45.400 --> 00:11:49.960\nAnd so as we have a framework for how we weigh in on things, we go to our\n\n251\n00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:50.840\nvalues and then\n\n252\n00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.370\nwe look at do these things impact our colleagues in a significant way and do\n\n253\n00:11:54.370 --> 00:11:55.160\nthey impact our\n\n254\n00:11:55.160 --> 00:11:56.160\ncustomers.\n\n255\n00:11:56.160 --> 00:11:59.280\nAnd then, you know, look, you're never going to make everybody happy.\n\n256\n00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:00.280\nThat's not your job.\n\n257\n00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:04.120\nYour job is to make the best decisions possible for the companies taking into\n\n258\n00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:04.800\naccount all\n\n259\n00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:09.310\nthe constituencies that we have, which are shareholders, customers, colleagues\n\n260\n00:12:09.310 --> 00:12:10.040\nin a community.\n\n261\n00:12:10.040 --> 00:12:14.840\nI remember talking to you about diversity and the power of diversity.\n\n262\n00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:19.920\nAnd you were really proud of the job that you've done in that area.\n\n263\n00:12:19.920 --> 00:12:23.490\nTell us about it and how you've approached it to get the results that you think\n\n264\n00:12:23.490 --> 00:12:23.720\nare\n\n265\n00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:25.040\nterrific.\n\n266\n00:12:25.040 --> 00:12:28.960\nFor me, inclusion was really important.\n\n267\n00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:34.800\nI want a company where everybody can be themselves.\n\n268\n00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:38.720\nI don't want people to come to work and have to act.\n\n269\n00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:43.940\nYou know, we spend so much time at work that if you can't be yourself, then why\n\n270\n00:12:43.940 --> 00:12:44.480\nare you\n\n271\n00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:45.640\nhere?\n\n272\n00:12:45.640 --> 00:12:49.000\nOur values are really around diversity, equity and inclusion.\n\n273\n00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.040\nAnd our leadership team is aware of that.\n\n274\n00:12:52.040 --> 00:12:54.640\nAnd our leadership team values that.\n\n275\n00:12:54.640 --> 00:13:01.630\nWhat we're talking about is opening up your aperture to make sure that you are\n\n276\n00:13:01.630 --> 00:13:02.560\nbringing\n\n277\n00:13:02.560 --> 00:13:07.480\nin the widest point of views, bringing in the widest collection of talent and\n\n278\n00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:08.080\nthe most\n\n279\n00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:12.320\ndiverse collection of talent that you can have available to you.\n\n280\n00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:13.920\nAnd I think that makes us a better company.\n\n281\n00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:16.400\nI think that makes us a more fun place to work.\n\n282\n00:13:16.400 --> 00:13:19.320\nAnd I think it drives better results for us.\n\n283\n00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:25.100\nI know you're a very humble guy, but if you had to pick the towering strength\n\n284\n00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:25.600\nthat helped\n\n285\n00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:30.480\nyou get to the position that you're at today, what would it be?\n\n286\n00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:31.480\nTwo things.\n\n287\n00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:37.990\nNumber one, being able to look in the mirror and realize what you're good at\n\n288\n00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:38.920\nand where\n\n289\n00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:40.480\nyour shortcomings are.\n\n290\n00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:44.910\nI think so many people so many times just focus on what they're good at and don\n\n291\n00:13:44.910 --> 00:13:45.240\n't want to\n\n292\n00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.410\nlook in that mirror and say, hey, this is where I'm not so good and I can use\n\n293\n00:13:48.410 --> 00:13:48.960\nto develop\n\n294\n00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:49.960\na little bit more.\n\n295\n00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:53.780\nAnd I think the second thing that goes right along with that is you have to be\n\n296\n00:13:53.780 --> 00:13:54.280\nan agile\n\n297\n00:13:54.280 --> 00:13:55.320\nlearner.\n\n298\n00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:57.200\nYou have to be willing to learn.\n\n299\n00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:02.400\nAnd once you stop your journey of learning, it's kind of over.\n\n300\n00:14:02.400 --> 00:14:05.000\nAnd I don't think anybody ever stops their journey of learning.\n\n301\n00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:06.400\nI mean, look at you.\n\n302\n00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:11.050\nI mean, you're doing what you're doing now after a wildly successful career and\n\n303\n00:14:11.050 --> 00:14:11.360\nyou're\n\n304\n00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:15.280\nlearning every day by doing some of these podcasts, right?\n\n305\n00:14:15.280 --> 00:14:19.550\nI think those are the two things that have really helped me grow as a, not only\n\n306\n00:14:19.550 --> 00:14:19.920\nas an\n\n307\n00:14:19.920 --> 00:14:24.120\nindividual, but as a leader as well, is being able to look in that mirror and\n\n308\n00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:24.760\nsay who you\n\n309\n00:14:24.760 --> 00:14:26.200\nreally are.\n\n310\n00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.120\nAnd then the ability to be an agile learner.\n\n311\n00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:34.480\nTell us a story about the biggest leadership lesson you learned on the way up.\n\n312\n00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.680\nBy having this self reflection that you're talking about.\n\n313\n00:14:37.680 --> 00:14:41.780\nThe biggest leadership lesson I ever learned was probably when I was 18 years\n\n314\n00:14:41.780 --> 00:14:42.400\nold from my\n\n315\n00:14:42.400 --> 00:14:44.200\nmother.\n\n316\n00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:47.500\nWhen I went to Manhattan, I would work full time at Bloomingdale's on 59th\n\n317\n00:14:47.500 --> 00:14:48.000\nStreet.\n\n318\n00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.760\nSo I'd, I'd take the train up to Manhattan College, take the train back down,\n\n319\n00:14:52.760 --> 00:14:53.080\nget off\n\n320\n00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:54.480\nand go to Bloomingdale's.\n\n321\n00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.090\nAnd, you know, so there you were in Bloomingdale's and I was a stock guy, you\n\n322\n00:14:58.090 --> 00:14:58.840\nknow, and doing\n\n323\n00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:00.600\nvarious different things.\n\n324\n00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.150\nAnd you know, whether it was working in a rug department, the sign department,\n\n325\n00:15:03.150 --> 00:15:03.600\nwhatever\n\n326\n00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.680\nit might be, whatever I could do.\n\n327\n00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:10.530\nAnd you know, back in those days, you know, if you weren't in the graduate\n\n328\n00:15:10.530 --> 00:15:11.440\nmanagement\n\n329\n00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.610\nprogram at Bloomingdale's, you're just a stock guy, you sort of looked down on\n\n330\n00:15:14.610 --> 00:15:14.920\nit.\n\n331\n00:15:14.920 --> 00:15:18.440\nAnd I remember going home and being frustrated.\n\n332\n00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:22.280\nAnd my mother used to always say to me, she said two things.\n\n333\n00:15:22.280 --> 00:15:27.880\nShe said, you can be anything you want to be if you put your mind to it.\n\n334\n00:15:27.880 --> 00:15:30.280\nAnd I was, I'm not so sure about that, mom.\n\n335\n00:15:30.280 --> 00:15:31.280\nThey went to Columbia.\n\n336\n00:15:31.280 --> 00:15:33.040\nThey went to Yale or in the training program.\n\n337\n00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:34.040\nYou know, I'm in Manhattan.\n\n338\n00:15:34.040 --> 00:15:36.790\nThey asked me where I go, you know, I might go to community college and so\n\n339\n00:15:36.790 --> 00:15:37.240\nforth.\n\n340\n00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:42.670\nShe said, the other thing is, which is important is don't let anybody tell you\n\n341\n00:15:42.670 --> 00:15:43.600\nwhat you're\n\n342\n00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:49.880\ncapable of doing because only you know what you're truly capable of.\n\n343\n00:15:49.880 --> 00:15:55.110\nAnd that got me to sort of look a lot more in the mirror about who I was and\n\n344\n00:15:55.110 --> 00:15:56.040\nwhat I could\n\n345\n00:15:56.040 --> 00:15:57.040\ndo.\n\n346\n00:15:57.040 --> 00:16:00.020\nAnd I still go back and people say to me, what's the best business advice you\n\n347\n00:16:00.020 --> 00:16:01.280\never got?\n\n348\n00:16:01.280 --> 00:16:02.360\nAnd it was from my mother.\n\n349\n00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:04.950\nAnd I've changed it a little bit over the years to be a little bit more\n\n350\n00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:05.760\nbusiness speak.\n\n351\n00:16:05.760 --> 00:16:10.050\nAnd that was don't let anybody set your goals for you because only you know\n\n352\n00:16:10.050 --> 00:16:10.840\nwhat you can\n\n353\n00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:12.400\ntruly accomplish.\n\n354\n00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:17.960\nAnd if you think about that, why should anybody set a ceiling for you?\n\n355\n00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:22.680\nWhy shouldn't you set the ceiling for yourself and then strive to get there?\n\n356\n00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:24.640\nAnd that has stood with me.\n\n357\n00:16:24.640 --> 00:16:28.340\nBut that then, if I go back to those other two points, which I never would have\n\n358\n00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.880\nthought\n\n359\n00:16:28.880 --> 00:16:33.650\nabout that back then, but that then says, hey, look, you have to look in that\n\n360\n00:16:33.650 --> 00:16:34.400\nmirror and\n\n361\n00:16:34.400 --> 00:16:38.320\nyou have to be an agile learner if you want to get to where you want to go.\n\n362\n00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:43.800\nI was really amazed to learn that you'd been in the same company for 40 years.\n\n363\n00:16:43.800 --> 00:16:44.800\nThat's a long time.\n\n364\n00:16:44.800 --> 00:16:50.060\nAnd I have to believe that there had to be a time when you thought about\n\n365\n00:16:50.060 --> 00:16:51.120\nleaving.\n\n366\n00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:52.920\nYou know, when was it?\n\n367\n00:16:52.920 --> 00:16:55.080\nAnd how do you work through it?\n\n368\n00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:57.160\nAnd why did you stay?\n\n369\n00:16:57.160 --> 00:17:02.910\nThere were a number of times early on where I thought that this might not be\n\n370\n00:17:02.910 --> 00:17:03.760\nthe place\n\n371\n00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:05.440\nfor me.\n\n372\n00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.160\nAnd I interviewed outside and decided to stay.\n\n373\n00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.280\nBut I'll tell you why, why I almost left and why I stayed.\n\n374\n00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:17.330\nI was told so many times during my career, this would be the highest level I\n\n375\n00:17:17.330 --> 00:17:18.360\nwould ever\n\n376\n00:17:18.360 --> 00:17:20.000\nachieve.\n\n377\n00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:25.560\nI was told that when I was made a director, a vice president, a senior vice\n\n378\n00:17:25.560 --> 00:17:26.560\npresident,\n\n379\n00:17:26.560 --> 00:17:28.000\nthat this was it.\n\n380\n00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:29.960\nDon't expect anymore.\n\n381\n00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:31.400\nOkay.\n\n382\n00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:36.520\nAnd I'd go back to what my mom said.\n\n383\n00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:39.000\nThey were putting a ceiling on top of me.\n\n384\n00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.910\nAnd those words in her mind, you know, rang out to me that you could do\n\n385\n00:17:41.910 --> 00:17:42.800\nwhatever you want\n\n386\n00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:46.160\nto do, which is true.\n\n387\n00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.720\nAnd don't let anybody tell you what you can and cannot do.\n\n388\n00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.880\nAnd the reason I stayed was for two reasons.\n\n389\n00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:57.720\nNumber one, this company offers tremendous opportunities.\n\n390\n00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:01.160\nAnd number two, I wanted to prove them wrong.\n\n391\n00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.160\nI wanted to prove them wrong.\n\n392\n00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:09.160\nAnd most of those people that told me I couldn't never reached anywhere near\n\n393\n00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.000\nwhere I reached.\n\n394\n00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.080\nAnd so I guess you could say I had a chip on my shoulder.\n\n395\n00:18:15.080 --> 00:18:19.640\nAnd I think that chip on my shoulder has served me, has served me well.\n\n396\n00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:21.400\nThat's why I stayed.\n\n397\n00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:24.320\nI still felt it was a great company to learn at.\n\n398\n00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:26.640\nAnd that's really, really important to me.\n\n399\n00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.120\nAnd it had lots and lots of opportunities.\n\n400\n00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:32.640\nBut the other part, and going back to how we started this from a competitive\n\n401\n00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:33.520\nperspective,\n\n402\n00:18:33.520 --> 00:18:37.920\nfrom a competitive perspective, I wanted to show these people they were wrong.\n\n403\n00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.480\nAnd I did.\n\n404\n00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:46.400\nHey, everyone, it's Kula, co-host of Three More Questions.\n\n405\n00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.680\nAnd I have some exciting news to share with you.\n\n406\n00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.090\nWe just launched a breakthrough app that will help you become a better leader\n\n407\n00:18:53.090 --> 00:18:53.720\nin less than\n\n408\n00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:55.360\ntwo minutes a day.\n\n409\n00:18:55.360 --> 00:18:57.160\nIt's called How Leaders Lead.\n\n410\n00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:00.800\nAs you know on the podcast, David spends about an hour each week interviewing\n\n411\n00:19:00.800 --> 00:19:01.360\nsome of the\n\n412\n00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:03.320\ntop leaders in the world.\n\n413\n00:19:03.320 --> 00:19:07.280\nPeople like Tom Brady, Condoleezza Rice, and Jamie Diamond.\n\n414\n00:19:07.280 --> 00:19:11.000\nBut we know that leaders like yourself are pressed for time.\n\n415\n00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.320\nSo we've taken the very best clips from these conversations and put them into\n\n416\n00:19:15.320 --> 00:19:15.960\nan easy to\n\n417\n00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:20.480\nuse mobile app that you can learn from in less than two minutes a day.\n\n418\n00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.890\nIf you want to become a better leader, start a daily leadership habit with the\n\n419\n00:19:23.890 --> 00:19:24.520\nHow Leaders\n\n420\n00:19:24.520 --> 00:19:25.520\nLead app.\n\n421\n00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:28.880\nIt's available now for free and the app store.\n\n422\n00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:37.280\nDownload it today.\n\n423\n00:19:37.280 --> 00:19:40.790\nAnd when you first took over a CEO of American Express, I understand you met\n\n424\n00:19:40.790 --> 00:19:41.480\nwith your top\n\n425\n00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.920\n100 executives.\n\n426\n00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:49.480\nTalk more about that, what you really tried to find out and why you did it.\n\n427\n00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:51.600\nKen Chenault and I had a great transition.\n\n428\n00:19:51.600 --> 00:19:59.300\nAnd you've seen lots of situations where when the current CEO is leaving and\n\n429\n00:19:59.300 --> 00:20:00.600\nthe new CEO\n\n430\n00:20:00.600 --> 00:20:05.040\nis coming in that you get some friction and over time they sort of go apart.\n\n431\n00:20:05.040 --> 00:20:09.800\nI'm probably closer with Ken now today than I've ever been.\n\n432\n00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:16.640\nHe was a tremendous supporter of me personally, but even during a transition.\n\n433\n00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.440\nAnd what he said to me, he gave me great advice.\n\n434\n00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:23.240\nHe said, do it the way you think it should be done, not the way you think I\n\n435\n00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:23.840\nwould do\n\n436\n00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:24.840\nit.\n\n437\n00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:27.040\nNow, that's tremendous confidence, right?\n\n438\n00:20:27.040 --> 00:20:29.240\nI mean, that's a guy that has tremendous confidence.\n\n439\n00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.400\nAnd that was really good advice.\n\n440\n00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:35.440\nAnd you know, again, go back to what I said about looking in the mirror.\n\n441\n00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.440\nWell, I think the company needs to look in the mirror and a CEO I needed to\n\n442\n00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:38.920\nlook in the\n\n443\n00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:39.920\nmirror.\n\n444\n00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:45.520\nAnd so I said, what better way than to go out and talk to the top 100 leaders\n\n445\n00:20:45.520 --> 00:20:46.040\nin the\n\n446\n00:20:46.040 --> 00:20:47.040\ncompany.\n\n447\n00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:49.720\nAnd I spent 45 minutes with them with each one of them.\n\n448\n00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.510\nAnd most of them were in person, you know, if they were in England or something\n\n449\n00:20:52.510 --> 00:20:53.040\n, I didn't\n\n450\n00:20:53.040 --> 00:20:54.480\nhappen to be in London.\n\n451\n00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.520\nWe did it over the phone.\n\n452\n00:20:55.520 --> 00:21:01.530\nBut what I said to them is I said, look, what should we do more of as a company\n\n453\n00:21:01.530 --> 00:21:01.680\n?\n\n454\n00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.960\nWhat should we stop doing?\n\n455\n00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:07.400\nWhat do you hope that I will do?\n\n456\n00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.560\nAnd what do you are absolutely afraid I'm going to do?\n\n457\n00:21:10.560 --> 00:21:12.880\nAnd anything else that's on your mind.\n\n458\n00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:14.920\nAnd it was great learning.\n\n459\n00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:19.170\nAnd what it showed and what I was trying to show was that we were in this\n\n460\n00:21:19.170 --> 00:21:20.120\ntogether.\n\n461\n00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:21.560\nWe were going to collaborate.\n\n462\n00:21:21.560 --> 00:21:23.120\nWe were going to win as a team.\n\n463\n00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:27.710\nAnd I think that was really important because then the next step that I took\n\n464\n00:21:27.710 --> 00:21:28.440\nafter that\n\n465\n00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:32.890\nwas with my top executives put together something that we called the framework\n\n466\n00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:34.240\nfor winning\n\n467\n00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.790\nthat talked about our mission, our strategic priorities, how we're going to win\n\n468\n00:21:37.790 --> 00:21:38.280\n, what we\n\n469\n00:21:38.280 --> 00:21:42.760\nwere looking for in leaders, the values that we had.\n\n470\n00:21:42.760 --> 00:21:47.200\nAnd what I also then did is said, look, we're going to run this as an\n\n471\n00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:48.280\nenterprise.\n\n472\n00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:52.370\nUp until then, we had run it as individual business units from a scorekeeping\n\n473\n00:21:52.370 --> 00:21:53.160\nperspective.\n\n474\n00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.720\nAnd you know, look, competitive people want to keep score the right way.\n\n475\n00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:02.480\nBut I felt that, you know, one plus one plus one should not equal three.\n\n476\n00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.120\nIt should equal four.\n\n477\n00:22:04.120 --> 00:22:09.480\nAnd by looking at this more from an enterprise perspective and having everybody\n\n478\n00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:10.360\nhave the same\n\n479\n00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:13.120\nskin in the game, that was really important.\n\n480\n00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:17.160\nAnd so what I learned was people really wanted to work together.\n\n481\n00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.060\nPeople really wanted that enterprise feeling and they didn't want that feeling\n\n482\n00:22:20.060 --> 00:22:20.520\nof, hey,\n\n483\n00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:21.840\nlook, you're in one business unit.\n\n484\n00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:23.120\nI'm in the other business unit.\n\n485\n00:22:23.120 --> 00:22:26.470\nAnd in addition to competing on the outside, we're going to compete internally\n\n486\n00:22:26.470 --> 00:22:26.840\nfor the\n\n487\n00:22:26.840 --> 00:22:27.840\nbest ratings.\n\n488\n00:22:27.840 --> 00:22:31.400\nAnd so what I did is I eliminated this concept of business unit ratings.\n\n489\n00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:35.260\nI mean, we had multiple business units and I basically said, we're all going to\n\n490\n00:22:35.260 --> 00:22:35.640\nsink\n\n491\n00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:37.240\nor swim on how the company does.\n\n492\n00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:40.800\nNow, we'll have our individual goals, but the only rating that's going to\n\n493\n00:22:40.800 --> 00:22:41.400\nmatter for\n\n494\n00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:44.160\npeople is what the company gets.\n\n495\n00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:49.130\nAnd that changed the dynamic a little bit because as we were having investment\n\n496\n00:22:49.130 --> 00:22:50.600\nconversations,\n\n497\n00:22:50.600 --> 00:22:56.830\nwhat we saw was, hey, where should we put the money as a group, not, you know\n\n498\n00:22:56.830 --> 00:22:57.520\nwhat,\n\n499\n00:22:57.520 --> 00:23:01.480\nhe got an extra 50 million to invest was my 50 million.\n\n500\n00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.680\nThe end of the first year, one of my direct reports came up to me and said, you\n\n501\n00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:05.080\nknow,\n\n502\n00:23:05.080 --> 00:23:09.660\nwe invested an extra $600 million this year that we didn't originally have in\n\n503\n00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:10.240\nthe plan.\n\n504\n00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:11.760\nAnd I only got 10 million of that.\n\n505\n00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:13.560\nAnd I'm like, okay, here we go.\n\n506\n00:23:13.560 --> 00:23:16.400\nAnd he said, that was absolutely the right decision.\n\n507\n00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:20.960\nAnd he said, what really makes me feel good is I had a voice in where that 600\n\n508\n00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:21.560\nmillion\n\n509\n00:23:21.560 --> 00:23:22.760\nwent.\n\n510\n00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:27.550\nAnd so what I found by talking to all those people was that they really wanted\n\n511\n00:23:27.550 --> 00:23:28.720\nto collaborate.\n\n512\n00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:32.400\nThey really wanted to operate as an enterprise.\n\n513\n00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:33.400\nAnd that's what we did.\n\n514\n00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:36.560\nAnd I think that's helped really drive our success.\n\n515\n00:23:36.560 --> 00:23:40.950\nYou know, one of the questions that you asked, which I hadn't heard of before,\n\n516\n00:23:40.950 --> 00:23:41.280\nbecause, you\n\n517\n00:23:41.280 --> 00:23:44.180\nknow, a lot of people go on listening tours and, you know, want to get the\n\n518\n00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:44.760\nfeedback.\n\n519\n00:23:44.760 --> 00:23:48.040\nBut I love this question is, what are you afraid I'm going to do?\n\n520\n00:23:48.040 --> 00:23:50.000\nWell, what's the big thing you heard?\n\n521\n00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:54.270\nThe biggest thing was don't act too quickly without truly understanding\n\n522\n00:23:54.270 --> 00:23:55.240\neverything.\n\n523\n00:23:55.240 --> 00:24:01.670\nAnd, you know, prior to taking over as CEO, it was probably 25 or 30% of the\n\n524\n00:24:01.670 --> 00:24:02.600\ncompany that\n\n525\n00:24:02.600 --> 00:24:04.680\nhadn't worked for me, right?\n\n526\n00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.520\nAnd I was more of a guy that was kind of in the background.\n\n527\n00:24:07.520 --> 00:24:10.040\nI did a lot of different roles for Ken.\n\n528\n00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:14.650\nAnd one of the big things I did was sort of the reengineering of, you know,\n\n529\n00:24:14.650 --> 00:24:16.920\n2015, 2016.\n\n530\n00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.800\nAnd so I think people were afraid that I may not listen and people were afraid\n\n531\n00:24:21.800 --> 00:24:22.440\nthat I was\n\n532\n00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:27.120\ngoing to act too quickly because I haven't met a decision I didn't want to make\n\n533\n00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:27.120\n.\n\n534\n00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:28.320\nI think that was really good.\n\n535\n00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:32.420\nI think what you really needed to do was to demonstrate to people you were\n\n536\n00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:33.280\nthoughtful,\n\n537\n00:24:33.280 --> 00:24:36.320\nto demonstrate to people that you were taking the input.\n\n538\n00:24:36.320 --> 00:24:42.250\nYou know, because you're loud, because you multitask, because you may appear at\n\n539\n00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:42.760\ntimes\n\n540\n00:24:42.760 --> 00:24:45.520\nlike you're not listening, doesn't mean you're not listening.\n\n541\n00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:50.660\nAnd so what I realized, taken out of that was, look, take a step back, get even\n\n542\n00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:51.320\nsome more\n\n543\n00:24:51.320 --> 00:24:55.560\ninput and be a little bit more deliberate because you don't want waiting a day\n\n544\n00:24:55.560 --> 00:24:56.040\nto make\n\n545\n00:24:56.040 --> 00:24:59.010\na decision is not going to make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of\n\n546\n00:24:59.010 --> 00:24:59.400\nthings\n\n547\n00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.950\nif you're, you know, you're talking about stopping an initiative or something\n\n548\n00:25:02.950 --> 00:25:03.640\nlike that.\n\n549\n00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:09.080\nAnd so what I tried to do was take people more through my thought process, try\n\n550\n00:25:09.080 --> 00:25:09.680\nto even\n\n551\n00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:15.240\nlisten more and sometimes listening more, it was just being more attentive.\n\n552\n00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.570\nYou know, you could say, well, I'm listening and my father used to say to me\n\n553\n00:25:17.570 --> 00:25:18.440\nall the time,\n\n554\n00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:20.160\nhey, dad, you know, I'd be looking at TV.\n\n555\n00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.600\nI'm listening to you.\n\n556\n00:25:21.600 --> 00:25:22.600\nAnd he actually was.\n\n557\n00:25:22.600 --> 00:25:25.040\nYou just, he was a great multitasker.\n\n558\n00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:28.560\nSo I think they were just afraid for areas that I didn't know.\n\n559\n00:25:28.560 --> 00:25:32.280\nI had a preconceived notion and was going to act.\n\n560\n00:25:32.280 --> 00:25:34.760\nAnd that was one of the things that that I heard a lot of.\n\n561\n00:25:34.760 --> 00:25:37.880\nAnd so, you know, you just took that off the table.\n\n562\n00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.120\nAnd how did you let people know that you really heard that?\n\n563\n00:25:41.120 --> 00:25:43.320\nI think you demonstrate that, right?\n\n564\n00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:47.430\nAnd, you know, one of the things that I still do today when I make a decision,\n\n565\n00:25:47.430 --> 00:25:47.840\nI try and\n\n566\n00:25:47.840 --> 00:25:50.360\ntake people through my thought process.\n\n567\n00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:55.320\nI try and take people through the thought process of why we did what we did.\n\n568\n00:25:55.320 --> 00:25:57.120\nI'll do that in town halls.\n\n569\n00:25:57.120 --> 00:25:59.280\nI'll do that in one-on-one meetings.\n\n570\n00:25:59.280 --> 00:26:04.150\nI think every time you have an interaction with your colleagues, it is an\n\n571\n00:26:04.150 --> 00:26:05.040\nopportunity\n\n572\n00:26:05.040 --> 00:26:07.720\nto teach and it's an opportunity for them to learn.\n\n573\n00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.170\nAnd you know this, as you sit in this seat, this seat is very different than\n\n574\n00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:11.680\nany other\n\n575\n00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.160\nseat you could ever sit in in any company.\n\n576\n00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:19.160\nAnd it's different because it's a one-of-one job.\n\n577\n00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:22.470\nYou don't have really colleagues that are, you know, sort of, you know,\n\n578\n00:26:22.470 --> 00:26:23.320\nequivalent with\n\n579\n00:26:23.320 --> 00:26:24.320\nyou.\n\n580\n00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:25.600\nYou have direct reports.\n\n581\n00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:27.480\nYou work for a board.\n\n582\n00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:29.320\nIt's a lonely job.\n\n583\n00:26:29.320 --> 00:26:34.240\nAnd so, taking them through how you thought about it and taking them through\n\n584\n00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:34.840\nsome of the\n\n585\n00:26:34.840 --> 00:26:40.720\nthings that you face, I'm very public about how I feel about the job.\n\n586\n00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:46.000\nAnd I'm very public about with my team how I think about things.\n\n587\n00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.800\nHow do you go about getting feedback today, Steve?\n\n588\n00:26:48.800 --> 00:26:49.800\nYou know, it's interesting.\n\n589\n00:26:49.800 --> 00:26:54.350\nI was just, I just had somebody in here and we were talking about how do I\n\n590\n00:26:54.350 --> 00:26:55.320\nbecome a better\n\n591\n00:26:55.320 --> 00:26:57.080\nleader?\n\n592\n00:26:57.080 --> 00:27:02.120\nAnd you know, one of the things that I'm pretty happy about with my team is\n\n593\n00:27:02.120 --> 00:27:04.200\nthey're not afraid\n\n594\n00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.240\nto tell me when they disagree with me.\n\n595\n00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:11.440\nAt all, I've got people that speak up.\n\n596\n00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.660\nAnd what they've known is that no one's ever going to get burned because they\n\n597\n00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:16.360\ndisagreed\n\n598\n00:27:16.360 --> 00:27:17.360\nwith me.\n\n599\n00:27:17.360 --> 00:27:18.600\nI'd like them to disagree with me.\n\n600\n00:27:18.600 --> 00:27:24.200\nThe only thing that I ever say is I disagree, but let's disagree respectfully.\n\n601\n00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:25.560\nAnd let's have alternatives.\n\n602\n00:27:25.560 --> 00:27:30.490\nAnd so I think my team will tell you that, you know, they have an opportunity\n\n603\n00:27:30.490 --> 00:27:31.080\nto tell\n\n604\n00:27:31.080 --> 00:27:34.480\nme what's on their mind and know there'll be no repercussions.\n\n605\n00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:39.400\nHaving said that, I think what's important is for me to be a better leader as I\n\n606\n00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:40.160\n, you know,\n\n607\n00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:46.460\nmove through, I mean, just starting year seven now as CEO, what would my team\n\n608\n00:27:46.460 --> 00:27:46.800\nreally\n\n609\n00:27:46.800 --> 00:27:48.200\nwant me to work on?\n\n610\n00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.290\nYou know, because it's one thing to get feedback in an individual situation,\n\n611\n00:27:51.290 --> 00:27:51.720\nright?\n\n612\n00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.920\nHey, you know, we disagree with that.\n\n613\n00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.560\nHave you tried that?\n\n614\n00:27:55.560 --> 00:28:00.260\nBut one of the things that I'm going to do this year is work with somebody to\n\n615\n00:28:00.260 --> 00:28:00.840\nwork with\n\n616\n00:28:00.840 --> 00:28:08.430\nmy team to basically say, hey, look, if you could make Steve better, that's not\n\n617\n00:28:08.430 --> 00:28:09.240\nhard.\n\n618\n00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.240\nIt's a wide open range of things, right?\n\n619\n00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:15.490\nIf you could make him better, what are the two things or three things you would\n\n620\n00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:15.800\nhope\n\n621\n00:28:15.800 --> 00:28:16.960\nthat he would focus on?\n\n622\n00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:20.760\nSo it gets back, David, to that, what do we hope for Steve?\n\n623\n00:28:20.760 --> 00:28:22.400\nWhat do we hope that he would do?\n\n624\n00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:27.590\nAnd I think, you know, you say, look, 65 years old, seven years in the job, why\n\n625\n00:28:27.590 --> 00:28:29.400\ndo you care?\n\n626\n00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.680\nIt goes back to being an agile learner.\n\n627\n00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.400\nYou care because you want to continue to grow.\n\n628\n00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.880\nAnd so I think it's at the right time for me to talk with my team.\n\n629\n00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:42.540\nAnd I know I'll get really good feedback of, look, you know what, we wish Steve\n\n630\n00:28:42.540 --> 00:28:43.520\nwould modulate\n\n631\n00:28:43.520 --> 00:28:47.440\nthis up that, let us do this more so forth and so on.\n\n632\n00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:49.280\nAnd so we'll see how that works out.\n\n633\n00:28:49.280 --> 00:28:54.020\nMaybe if this works out, well, we can do podcast to what happened to Steve\n\n634\n00:28:54.020 --> 00:28:55.560\nafter his feedback.\n\n635\n00:28:55.560 --> 00:28:59.550\nYeah, I would love that, you know, but obviously you've got real religion on\n\n636\n00:28:59.550 --> 00:29:00.720\nself-awareness.\n\n637\n00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.360\nI mean, you really believe that's a key thing.\n\n638\n00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:08.070\nDo you have any stories when someone earlier on in your career helped you\n\n639\n00:29:08.070 --> 00:29:09.040\nidentify a blind\n\n640\n00:29:09.040 --> 00:29:10.760\nspot in your own leadership?\n\n641\n00:29:10.760 --> 00:29:16.150\nThere's a lot of blind spots that I had early on, and this goes back probably\n\n642\n00:29:16.150 --> 00:29:17.080\nto the Accenture\n\n643\n00:29:17.080 --> 00:29:21.500\ndays because I spent four years at Accenture before, was author Anderson at the\n\n644\n00:29:21.500 --> 00:29:22.160\ntime, but\n\n645\n00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:25.520\nwe say Accenture now was on the consulting side.\n\n646\n00:29:25.520 --> 00:29:32.670\nAnd I had a manager at that particular point in time that said to me, you know,\n\n647\n00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:33.360\nyou are\n\n648\n00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:36.800\ntreating everyone the same and they're not.\n\n649\n00:29:36.800 --> 00:29:40.480\nIt's my like my first management job.\n\n650\n00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:44.750\nAnd this is one that I think permeated throughout my career because he said, I\n\n651\n00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:45.520\n'll make the\n\n652\n00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:46.520\nnames up.\n\n653\n00:29:46.520 --> 00:29:52.020\nYou got Joe over here who's more experienced than on this assignment for, you\n\n654\n00:29:52.020 --> 00:29:52.880\nknow, the\n\n655\n00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:59.060\nlast two years, you've come in as the lead on this thing and you have Sally\n\n656\n00:29:59.060 --> 00:30:00.000\nover here\n\n657\n00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.240\nwho's brand new.\n\n658\n00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:03.280\nWhy would you treat him the same?\n\n659\n00:30:03.280 --> 00:30:08.840\nAnd David, what you realize about that is that everybody has a different\n\n660\n00:30:08.840 --> 00:30:09.840\ncontext.\n\n661\n00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:14.450\nAnd one of the things I always talk about with my team now is what's the\n\n662\n00:30:14.450 --> 00:30:14.760\ncontext?\n\n663\n00:30:14.760 --> 00:30:16.120\nEverybody has a different context.\n\n664\n00:30:16.120 --> 00:30:24.190\nAnd when you think about it, the person that had more experience didn't need me\n\n665\n00:30:24.190 --> 00:30:24.960\nsort of\n\n666\n00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:26.840\ngrinding over them.\n\n667\n00:30:26.840 --> 00:30:31.210\nThe person that had less experience needed me leading and helping a little bit\n\n668\n00:30:31.210 --> 00:30:31.800\nmore.\n\n669\n00:30:31.800 --> 00:30:35.350\nAnd so I think, you know, what I learned from that early on is you have to\n\n670\n00:30:35.350 --> 00:30:35.920\nmorph your\n\n671\n00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:39.320\nleadership style to meet the situation.\n\n672\n00:30:39.320 --> 00:30:43.060\nI mean, look, we hear about this and I know you've interviewed a number of\n\n673\n00:30:43.060 --> 00:30:43.800\nathletes on\n\n674\n00:30:43.800 --> 00:30:44.800\nthis as well.\n\n675\n00:30:44.800 --> 00:30:47.840\nBut you know, you hear about coaches that have one way to do it.\n\n676\n00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:52.160\nIt's the, you know, it's the patriot way or it's this way or it's the other way\n\n677\n00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:52.160\n.\n\n678\n00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:54.560\nI don't think that really works in business.\n\n679\n00:30:54.560 --> 00:30:59.020\nTo this day, I don't treat every single direct report the same way because they\n\n680\n00:30:59.020 --> 00:30:59.560\nall have\n\n681\n00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:00.760\na different context.\n\n682\n00:31:00.760 --> 00:31:05.720\nThey have more experience, less experience, newer in the role and so forth.\n\n683\n00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:12.400\nAnd so that lesson from, you know, 44 years ago still plays out today.\n\n684\n00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:17.470\nAnd so I wasn't self aware enough to know that people are at a different point\n\n685\n00:31:17.470 --> 00:31:18.120\nbecause\n\n686\n00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:19.200\nthink about it.\n\n687\n00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:24.040\nYou're a 24 year old kid and it's like, okay, I'm now in charge.\n\n688\n00:31:24.040 --> 00:31:25.040\nNobody teaches you, right?\n\n689\n00:31:25.040 --> 00:31:27.760\nI mean, it's not like, okay, you're going to now lead people.\n\n690\n00:31:27.760 --> 00:31:29.760\nSo you say, I'm going to do it this way.\n\n691\n00:31:29.760 --> 00:31:32.590\nThe other thing I think that, you know, people make a mistake of so many\n\n692\n00:31:32.590 --> 00:31:33.720\nleaders make mistakes,\n\n693\n00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.670\nespecially young leaders, when they get put in a job, they try and prove right\n\n694\n00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:39.280\naway why\n\n695\n00:31:39.280 --> 00:31:41.280\nthey're in that job.\n\n696\n00:31:41.280 --> 00:31:42.560\nYou don't need to prove right away.\n\n697\n00:31:42.560 --> 00:31:46.200\nYour actions over time will prove why you're in that job.\n\n698\n00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.920\nYou don't need to make some big statement coming out of the gate.\n\n699\n00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:53.200\nYou need to sort of feel the moment a little bit more.\n\n700\n00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:57.530\nYou know, Steve, you said earlier, the minute you stop learning, you start\n\n701\n00:31:57.530 --> 00:31:58.160\ndying.\n\n702\n00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:02.320\nHow have you cascaded that belief throughout American Express?\n\n703\n00:32:02.320 --> 00:32:05.130\nI think, you know, one of the things that we do a really great job of here is\n\n704\n00:32:05.130 --> 00:32:05.640\nfrom our\n\n705\n00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:11.830\nCEG, our colleague experience group, is offering tremendous opportunities for\n\n706\n00:32:11.830 --> 00:32:12.640\npeople to learn\n\n707\n00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.760\nboth as leaders and from a functional perspective.\n\n708\n00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:19.500\nAnd just from some storytelling as well, I mean, I'll talk about the\n\n709\n00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:20.360\ndevelopment journey\n\n710\n00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:21.360\nthat I've been on.\n\n711\n00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:23.320\nAs I said, I think it's a constant journey.\n\n712\n00:32:23.320 --> 00:32:27.350\nAnd I think when people hear it from the CEO that, you know, learning is\n\n713\n00:32:27.350 --> 00:32:28.560\nimportant and\n\n714\n00:32:28.560 --> 00:32:32.680\nthat you continue to learn, they can decide to pick up on it or not.\n\n715\n00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:34.720\nBut then you got to put your money where your mouth is.\n\n716\n00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:38.810\nAnd so if we didn't have the programs available to our colleagues, you can't\n\n717\n00:32:38.810 --> 00:32:39.640\nsay to people,\n\n718\n00:32:39.640 --> 00:32:40.640\nlearning's really important.\n\n719\n00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.480\nWhen I get that learning, I have no idea.\n\n720\n00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:43.560\nGo figure it out, right?\n\n721\n00:32:43.560 --> 00:32:47.170\nAnd so we do have a great curriculum from a leadership perspective and from a\n\n722\n00:32:47.170 --> 00:32:47.840\nfunctional\n\n723\n00:32:47.840 --> 00:32:49.840\nskills perspective as well.\n\n724\n00:32:49.840 --> 00:32:54.130\nWhen I think of American Express, I think of one of the great brands in the\n\n725\n00:32:54.130 --> 00:32:54.800\nworld.\n\n726\n00:32:54.800 --> 00:33:01.140\nHow do you as the CEO define the brand and how do you decide when you're going\n\n727\n00:33:01.140 --> 00:33:02.040\nto change\n\n728\n00:33:02.040 --> 00:33:03.040\nit?\n\n729\n00:33:03.040 --> 00:33:04.040\nYeah.\n\n730\n00:33:04.040 --> 00:33:11.280\nAnd as always stood for security, trust and integrity.\n\n731\n00:33:11.280 --> 00:33:13.160\nAnd you never want to lose that.\n\n732\n00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:17.720\nWe started as a freight forwarding company and now we're doing payments, right?\n\n733\n00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.620\nAnd so if you think about this, when you were shipping something from New York\n\n734\n00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:23.240\nto California,\n\n735\n00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.960\nyou had a trust, the carrier that was taking it.\n\n736\n00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:30.560\nYou had to know that there was security and that there was integrity in that.\n\n737\n00:33:30.560 --> 00:33:36.170\nSo when you give me all your personal information, you need to ensure that I'm\n\n738\n00:33:36.170 --> 00:33:37.120\ngoing to take\n\n739\n00:33:37.120 --> 00:33:38.120\ncare of it.\n\n740\n00:33:38.120 --> 00:33:40.600\nYou could trust me with it and I'm going to have integrity.\n\n741\n00:33:40.600 --> 00:33:44.560\nAnd so I think those are the key brand attributes.\n\n742\n00:33:44.560 --> 00:33:49.680\nWhat you do on the edges with this is one of the things that we have done, one\n\n743\n00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:49.960\nof the\n\n744\n00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:55.800\nthings that's really driven our growth is making the brand more accessible.\n\n745\n00:33:55.800 --> 00:34:00.810\nWe've made the brand more accessible, particularly the millennials and gen z\n\n746\n00:34:00.810 --> 00:34:01.280\niers.\n\n747\n00:34:01.280 --> 00:34:06.170\nAnd so I wouldn't say we've changed the brand, but we've communicated those\n\n748\n00:34:06.170 --> 00:34:07.240\nattributes and\n\n749\n00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:13.730\nthose value propositions about the brand in a way that resonates with a\n\n750\n00:34:13.730 --> 00:34:15.840\ndifferent cohort.\n\n751\n00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.270\nAnd so those are the big decisions I think you need to make, David, is that how\n\n752\n00:34:19.270 --> 00:34:19.600\ndo you\n\n753\n00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:22.360\nhave the brand speak and what does it represent?\n\n754\n00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.840\nAnd the brand is the most precious asset that we have here.\n\n755\n00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:29.040\nIt is one of the top 10 brands in the world.\n\n756\n00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:31.200\nIt has stood the test of time.\n\n757\n00:34:31.200 --> 00:34:35.190\nI am a steward of that brand at this particular point in time and I don't want\n\n758\n00:34:35.190 --> 00:34:36.040\nto do anything\n\n759\n00:34:36.040 --> 00:34:37.920\nto damage that brand.\n\n760\n00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:42.770\nBut what we need to do is to make sure that that brand speaks to the people\n\n761\n00:34:42.770 --> 00:34:43.720\nthat we want\n\n762\n00:34:43.720 --> 00:34:46.120\nto attract into our franchise.\n\n763\n00:34:46.120 --> 00:34:48.320\nAnd you're so passionate about customers, Steve.\n\n764\n00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:51.720\nI mean, how do you take your passion that you have around customers?\n\n765\n00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:56.040\nAnd obviously, this is one of the reasons why you rose to the top job.\n\n766\n00:34:56.040 --> 00:34:59.400\nHow do you spread that throughout the company?\n\n767\n00:34:59.400 --> 00:35:04.720\nI don't know how we get the people that we get, but if you went into one of our\n\n768\n00:35:04.720 --> 00:35:05.400\nservice\n\n769\n00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:11.680\ncenters, you would say, Steve, I know where you got your passion from.\n\n770\n00:35:11.680 --> 00:35:15.360\nIt's our customer care professionals.\n\n771\n00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:21.450\nIf you were to listen to them on calls with customers about how much they care\n\n772\n00:35:21.450 --> 00:35:22.240\nabout our\n\n773\n00:35:22.240 --> 00:35:25.280\ncustomers, about how much they want to do for our customers.\n\n774\n00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.690\nI mean, I have our customer care professionals talk to our board members, you\n\n775\n00:35:29.690 --> 00:35:30.640\nknow, in panels\n\n776\n00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:31.800\nand so forth.\n\n777\n00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:36.480\nBut we have some of the best customer care professionals in the world.\n\n778\n00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:41.710\nAnd as you go through the organization, people realize that we don't exist\n\n779\n00:35:41.710 --> 00:35:43.800\nwithout customers.\n\n780\n00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:48.870\nAnd as a management team, we realize we don't exist without customers or\n\n781\n00:35:48.870 --> 00:35:50.280\nwithout great colleagues\n\n782\n00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.240\nthat take care of those customers.\n\n783\n00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:53.400\nSo I'll give you a great example.\n\n784\n00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:58.480\nDuring the pandemic, there were two things that we needed to take care of.\n\n785\n00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.710\nFirst our colleagues to make sure that they were safe and sound and oh, man,\n\n786\n00:36:01.710 --> 00:36:02.280\nyou know,\n\n787\n00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.440\nwe got everybody virtually.\n\n788\n00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:09.960\nAnd we had probably 6,000 people, David, that did not have internet access.\n\n789\n00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:11.160\nWe didn't get rid of them.\n\n790\n00:36:11.160 --> 00:36:13.860\nWe paid them for the nine months until they were able to get either get\n\n791\n00:36:13.860 --> 00:36:14.600\ninternet access\n\n792\n00:36:14.600 --> 00:36:19.670\nor to come back to work because those were the people and we took care of them\n\n793\n00:36:19.670 --> 00:36:20.160\nfirst\n\n794\n00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:23.240\nbecause those are the people that needed to take care of our customers.\n\n795\n00:36:23.240 --> 00:36:27.140\nAnd then as far as our customers go, you know, a lot of our value propositions\n\n796\n00:36:27.140 --> 00:36:27.400\nhave\n\n797\n00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:30.120\na lot of travel benefits to it.\n\n798\n00:36:30.120 --> 00:36:33.320\nAnd not a lot of people would travel during COVID.\n\n799\n00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:39.050\nAnd so what we did was we injected, you know, another billion dollars of value\n\n800\n00:36:39.050 --> 00:36:40.760\ninto our products\n\n801\n00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:44.050\nso that they were meaningful for people when they stayed home, whether that was\n\n802\n00:36:44.050 --> 00:36:44.480\nstreaming\n\n803\n00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:50.280\ncredits or shipping credits or cellular credits or dining credits and so forth\n\n804\n00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:50.760\nthat we gave\n\n805\n00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:51.760\nthem on their card.\n\n806\n00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:56.000\nAnd, you know, and I've said this in other interviews, how could you do that?\n\n807\n00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:00.280\nI said, well, look, the reality is this will be over.\n\n808\n00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:04.280\nNobody knew when it was going to be over, but you knew it would be over at some\n\n809\n00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:04.440\npoint.\n\n810\n00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.520\nAnd the most important thing was that we took care of our colleagues.\n\n811\n00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:10.520\nWe took care of our customers and we took care of our brand.\n\n812\n00:37:10.520 --> 00:37:14.740\nAnd so I remember I called Warren Buffadon's about 21%, Berkshire Hathaway owns\n\n813\n00:37:14.740 --> 00:37:15.800\n21% of American\n\n814\n00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:17.200\nExpress.\n\n815\n00:37:17.200 --> 00:37:22.280\nAnd I called him up and I said, look, is April 15th, buildings are down 50%.\n\n816\n00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:24.920\nAnd what I said to him was, you know, it looks like we're going to lose\n\n817\n00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:26.720\nprobably $4 a share.\n\n818\n00:37:26.720 --> 00:37:31.240\nOur capital position will be good, but I want to invest another billion dollars\n\n819\n00:37:31.240 --> 00:37:31.640\n, you know,\n\n820\n00:37:31.640 --> 00:37:32.640\nand our customers.\n\n821\n00:37:32.640 --> 00:37:34.120\nSo we'll probably lose $5 a share.\n\n822\n00:37:34.120 --> 00:37:35.440\nAre you okay with that?\n\n823\n00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.480\nAnd he said to me, look, take care of your customers.\n\n824\n00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:39.080\nTake care of the brand.\n\n825\n00:37:39.080 --> 00:37:41.480\nYou'll be much better off on the other side of it.\n\n826\n00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:43.360\nWe didn't lose $4 a share.\n\n827\n00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:47.120\nWe made much $4 a share, but it put us on a growth trajectory.\n\n828\n00:37:47.120 --> 00:37:54.400\nAnd I think people at this company are just passionate about customers.\n\n829\n00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:01.210\nWe'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Steve Squery in just a\n\n830\n00:38:01.210 --> 00:38:02.320\nmoment.\n\n831\n00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.320\nPrior to Steve's tenure, American Express was led by Ken Shinol.\n\n832\n00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.120\nKen has also been a guest here on How Leaders League.\n\n833\n00:38:09.120 --> 00:38:13.490\nAnd in our conversation, you'll hear some of the same themes of feedback that\n\n834\n00:38:13.490 --> 00:38:13.920\nSteve's\n\n835\n00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:19.260\ntalking about today, including how you've got to embrace constructive\n\n836\n00:38:19.260 --> 00:38:20.440\nconfrontation\n\n837\n00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:22.960\nif you want to build a strong team.\n\n838\n00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:30.940\nOne of the things that I talk to founders about very directly is eliciting and\n\n839\n00:38:30.940 --> 00:38:32.160\nreceiving\n\n840\n00:38:32.160 --> 00:38:34.480\ndirect feedback.\n\n841\n00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:39.790\nAnd so this concept that I used in management of constructive confrontation, do\n\n842\n00:38:39.790 --> 00:38:41.480\nit respectfully.\n\n843\n00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:44.110\nBut at the end of the day, what you want with your people and what you're going\n\n844\n00:38:44.110 --> 00:38:44.440\nto get\n\n845\n00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:50.000\nwith me is I'm going to tell you how I feel, what my concerns are, what areas\n\n846\n00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:50.680\nyou need\n\n847\n00:38:50.680 --> 00:38:51.680\nto develop.\n\n848\n00:38:51.680 --> 00:38:53.280\nLet's talk about it.\n\n849\n00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:56.660\nBut then let's put a game plan together because one of the things that's\n\n850\n00:38:56.660 --> 00:38:57.520\nimportant that I\n\n851\n00:38:57.520 --> 00:39:02.460\nreally stress the founders or anyone that I'm mentoring is we're all judged by\n\n852\n00:39:02.460 --> 00:39:04.040\nour actions.\n\n853\n00:39:04.040 --> 00:39:06.440\nAnd so take me through the outcomes.\n\n854\n00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:10.130\nBehaviors that you engage in, let's understand what the impacts are, let's\n\n855\n00:39:10.130 --> 00:39:11.040\nunderstand what\n\n856\n00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:15.320\nthe results are, because we all got to be outcome driven.\n\n857\n00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:19.430\nBut again, if we want to do something that's really lasting and meaningful, it\n\n858\n00:39:19.430 --> 00:39:19.760\n's got to\n\n859\n00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.840\nbe motivated by values and principles.\n\n860\n00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:28.280\nGo back and listen to my entire conversation with Ken, Episode 68 here on How\n\n861\n00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:29.240\nLeaders Lead.\n\n862\n00:39:29.240 --> 00:39:44.720\nYou mentioned the fact that with COVID, obviously people worked at home.\n\n863\n00:39:44.720 --> 00:39:50.510\nAnd there are a lot of leaders now that are working remote or there's some sort\n\n864\n00:39:50.510 --> 00:39:51.320\nof hybrid\n\n865\n00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:54.240\nenvironment that the leaders set.\n\n866\n00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:55.760\nWhat do you do?\n\n867\n00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.380\nJust from a practical standpoint, what do you do to keep your team connected in\n\n868\n00:40:00.380 --> 00:40:00.720\nthis\n\n869\n00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:01.720\nvirtual world?\n\n870\n00:40:01.720 --> 00:40:08.320\nOne of the things that prior to the pandemic, we were 20% virtual as a company.\n\n871\n00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.040\nWe're probably about 30, 35% now.\n\n872\n00:40:12.040 --> 00:40:16.550\nAnd the reality is if you came in here on a Friday, you probably wouldn't see a\n\n873\n00:40:16.550 --> 00:40:16.960\nlot of\n\n874\n00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.560\npeople pre-pandemic.\n\n875\n00:40:19.560 --> 00:40:23.800\nAnd so I think we were sort of a little bit hybrid before that.\n\n876\n00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:26.800\nAnd we had a good percentage of people that were virtual.\n\n877\n00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:30.960\nSo we had a lot of the traps sort of done before that.\n\n878\n00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:34.740\nI think the bigger issue though was how do you stay connected to your\n\n879\n00:40:34.740 --> 00:40:35.800\nleadership team\n\n880\n00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:38.640\nand how do those leadership teams stay connected to one another?\n\n881\n00:40:38.640 --> 00:40:44.600\nAnd one of the things that we did pre-COVID was we decided as a leadership team\n\n882\n00:40:44.600 --> 00:40:45.480\n, we would\n\n883\n00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:48.200\nhave something that we call meetings week.\n\n884\n00:40:48.200 --> 00:40:51.520\nSounds daunting, but let me explain it.\n\n885\n00:40:51.520 --> 00:40:54.920\nOne of the things I noticed as I was going through the company was that we\n\n886\n00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:55.600\nscheduled a\n\n887\n00:40:55.600 --> 00:40:58.970\nlot of meetings and sometimes people be calling in from Singapore or somebody\n\n888\n00:40:58.970 --> 00:40:59.600\nbe calling in\n\n889\n00:40:59.600 --> 00:41:02.000\nfrom London or they didn't show up and so forth.\n\n890\n00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:04.480\nAnd so you never had the team together.\n\n891\n00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:08.590\nSo what I basically said is, look, all of our enterprise meetings that we need\n\n892\n00:41:08.590 --> 00:41:09.920\nto have,\n\n893\n00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.240\nwe're going to do those during one week, out of the month.\n\n894\n00:41:12.240 --> 00:41:13.560\nWe'll do our financial reviews.\n\n895\n00:41:13.560 --> 00:41:15.800\nWe'll do everything we need to do at one week, out of the month.\n\n896\n00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:20.430\nAnd everybody's going to be there of my direct reports and our finance team,\n\n897\n00:41:20.430 --> 00:41:20.760\nunless there's\n\n898\n00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.600\na family emergency or something else.\n\n899\n00:41:23.600 --> 00:41:28.920\nAnd so if you think about it, as a team, we were together 25% of the time.\n\n900\n00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:34.860\nSo when COVID hit, we had established that real connectivity and collaboration\n\n901\n00:41:34.860 --> 00:41:35.600\nas a team\n\n902\n00:41:35.600 --> 00:41:37.320\nbeing together.\n\n903\n00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:38.920\nAnd I think that really helped us.\n\n904\n00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:44.090\nAnd so what we tried to do with people as they started to come back from COVID\n\n905\n00:41:44.090 --> 00:41:44.440\nwas it\n\n906\n00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.320\nwas come in with purpose.\n\n907\n00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.800\nAnd so people started to come in to meet together and so forth.\n\n908\n00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:52.200\nAnd maybe that was one day a week.\n\n909\n00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:55.400\nAnd as we've gotten up to it now, we're at three days a week.\n\n910\n00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:59.240\nAnd I think three days a week is probably for us the right cadence.\n\n911\n00:41:59.240 --> 00:42:03.280\nI think that mentoring is hard virtually.\n\n912\n00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:08.400\nMeetings one on one, virtually a fantastic meetings one on 15 are not as good.\n\n913\n00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:11.360\nSort of the Hollywood squares approach, I say it.\n\n914\n00:42:11.360 --> 00:42:12.920\nYou just don't have that dialogue.\n\n915\n00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.520\nAnd one of the things I've learned really early on, David, was that you're in a\n\n916\n00:42:16.520 --> 00:42:17.360\nmeeting.\n\n917\n00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:22.350\nBody language is so important to find out if people are checking out or they're\n\n918\n00:42:22.350 --> 00:42:22.800\nnot.\n\n919\n00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:26.840\nAnd you lose some of that during this virtual environment.\n\n920\n00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:31.600\nAnd you also lose that sort of, hey, at the end of the meeting, those little\n\n921\n00:42:31.600 --> 00:42:32.440\ngroups that\n\n922\n00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:35.600\nmight congregate together to have further on discussions.\n\n923\n00:42:35.600 --> 00:42:39.040\nAnd so I think for us, we're putting in the right processes.\n\n924\n00:42:39.040 --> 00:42:42.910\nLook, we still have some people that are unhappy about coming back in, but I\n\n925\n00:42:42.910 --> 00:42:43.440\nthink if you really\n\n926\n00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:48.110\nwant to grow your career longer term, mentoring is important, collaborating is\n\n927\n00:42:48.110 --> 00:42:48.960\nimportant,\n\n928\n00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:50.880\nleading in person is important.\n\n929\n00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:53.850\nAnd I think studies are starting to show that now that I'm not so sure\n\n930\n00:42:53.850 --> 00:42:54.640\ncompanies are going\n\n931\n00:42:54.640 --> 00:42:57.400\nto be successful if they're 100% virtual.\n\n932\n00:42:57.400 --> 00:42:59.080\nBut I think hybrid is the way to go.\n\n933\n00:42:59.080 --> 00:43:01.200\nAnd for us, it's probably three days a week.\n\n934\n00:43:01.200 --> 00:43:05.840\nHere you've been CEO now for seven years in the same company for 40 years.\n\n935\n00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:10.110\nAnd one of the things you have a really excellent reputation for is bringing an\n\n936\n00:43:10.110 --> 00:43:11.040\nentrepreneurial\n\n937\n00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:14.760\napproach to how you attack the business.\n\n938\n00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:19.440\nWhat is the biggest problem that you're trying to solve for your customers\n\n939\n00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:20.120\ntoday?\n\n940\n00:43:20.120 --> 00:43:24.650\nI think one of the problems that we have, and I think we're on the road to it,\n\n941\n00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:25.200\nis what\n\n942\n00:43:25.200 --> 00:43:28.480\nyou used to hear was you couldn't use your card everywhere.\n\n943\n00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.760\nIn the United States, that's pretty much gone.\n\n944\n00:43:30.760 --> 00:43:32.920\nI mean, the United States, we're at parity coverage.\n\n945\n00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:36.350\nI think one of the things that we're really working on is how do we have ubiqu\n\n946\n00:43:36.350 --> 00:43:37.320\nity internationally\n\n947\n00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:38.320\nas well.\n\n948\n00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.640\nAnd that's going to take some time, but I think we're making a lot of progress\n\n949\n00:43:41.640 --> 00:43:42.240\non that.\n\n950\n00:43:42.240 --> 00:43:43.680\nAnd I think that's the biggest thing.\n\n951\n00:43:43.680 --> 00:43:46.320\nYou really want ubiquitous coverage.\n\n952\n00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:50.040\nAnd that's really an important thing for us because I don't want people to have\n\n953\n00:43:50.040 --> 00:43:50.560\nanother\n\n954\n00:43:50.560 --> 00:43:51.560\nproduct.\n\n955\n00:43:51.560 --> 00:43:53.040\nPeople want to use our product all the time.\n\n956\n00:43:53.040 --> 00:43:56.960\nAnd people want to use our product all the time because we stand behind them.\n\n957\n00:43:56.960 --> 00:44:02.870\nThey know that when they ring us up or they email us or they do chat with us,\n\n958\n00:44:02.870 --> 00:44:03.560\nwe're going\n\n959\n00:44:03.560 --> 00:44:05.040\nto get back to them.\n\n960\n00:44:05.040 --> 00:44:08.450\nThere's two things that are very different about having an American Express\n\n961\n00:44:08.450 --> 00:44:08.960\ncard than\n\n962\n00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:10.400\nany other product.\n\n963\n00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:13.200\nHow many other products will you meet somebody?\n\n964\n00:44:13.200 --> 00:44:15.880\nThey'll say, \"Hey, I've been a member since 2000.\n\n965\n00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:18.080\nI've been a member since 2010.\"\n\n966\n00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:21.080\nYou're not going to hear that with any of the competitive products.\n\n967\n00:44:21.080 --> 00:44:23.360\nThat member since thing means something.\n\n968\n00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:27.360\nThe other thing that I would say is we get phone calls from people in distress\n\n969\n00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:27.840\nall the\n\n970\n00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:29.080\ntime.\n\n971\n00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:33.060\nYou're not calling your bank if you're on the side of a road or if you've got a\n\n972\n00:44:33.060 --> 00:44:33.560\nhealth\n\n973\n00:44:33.560 --> 00:44:35.360\nemergency or something like that.\n\n974\n00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:40.760\nBut you will call American Express because you know we will help you out.\n\n975\n00:44:40.760 --> 00:44:43.560\nWe will help you out to the best of our ability.\n\n976\n00:44:43.560 --> 00:44:44.560\nThat's important.\n\n977\n00:44:44.560 --> 00:44:46.640\nThat is really important to us.\n\n978\n00:44:46.640 --> 00:44:52.080\nAnd you have this big noble cause of helping people achieve their aspirations.\n\n979\n00:44:52.080 --> 00:44:55.680\nMost brands don't have that lofty goal.\n\n980\n00:44:55.680 --> 00:44:57.800\nWhat puts you in position to do that?\n\n981\n00:44:57.800 --> 00:45:04.640\nIt is a lofty, and some may say a ridiculous goal, but it's within a box.\n\n982\n00:45:04.640 --> 00:45:08.600\nWe're not going to help you be an astronaut.\n\n983\n00:45:08.600 --> 00:45:13.050\nBut if you want to achieve your travel aspirations, if you want to help achieve\n\n984\n00:45:13.050 --> 00:45:13.840\nsome of your\n\n985\n00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:18.440\nfinancial aspirations, if you're a card member and you want to take a trip of a\n\n986\n00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:19.280\nlifetime,\n\n987\n00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.080\nwe'll put that together for you.\n\n988\n00:45:21.080 --> 00:45:25.730\nIf you're a small business and you need somebody to completely manage the whole\n\n989\n00:45:25.730 --> 00:45:26.800\nthing, whether\n\n990\n00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:31.160\nthat's a transaction banking account, a working capital loan, and a small\n\n991\n00:45:31.160 --> 00:45:32.320\nbusiness card that's\n\n992\n00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:35.710\ngoing to give you the spending power, we'll put that together for you so that\n\n993\n00:45:35.710 --> 00:45:36.440\nyou can achieve\n\n994\n00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:38.080\nyour aspiration of success.\n\n995\n00:45:38.080 --> 00:45:40.000\nAnd so that's what we mean by it.\n\n996\n00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:43.400\nIt is a lofty ambition, but it's within the context.\n\n997\n00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:45.360\nRemember, go back to our word context.\n\n998\n00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:49.520\nIt's in the context of what we can provide in that sense.\n\n999\n00:45:49.520 --> 00:45:55.200\nAnd he started almost 200 years ago as a freight forwardy company, and you've\n\n1000\n00:45:55.200 --> 00:45:57.000\nevolved so much.\n\n1001\n00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:01.350\nHow do you now think, Steve, about the future and taking the company where it\n\n1002\n00:46:01.350 --> 00:46:02.560\nneeds to go\n\n1003\n00:46:02.560 --> 00:46:03.560\nnext?\n\n1004\n00:46:03.560 --> 00:46:05.600\nWhat's the next 10 years look like in your mind?\n\n1005\n00:46:05.600 --> 00:46:06.600\nYeah.\n\n1006\n00:46:06.600 --> 00:46:11.400\nWell, I may watch a few of those from the sidelines, but we're at the beginning\n\n1007\n00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:12.280\nof a journey.\n\n1008\n00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:14.600\nI'd say this is my leadership team.\n\n1009\n00:46:14.600 --> 00:46:16.480\nWe've had some really good success.\n\n1010\n00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:20.480\nThe stock went past 200 for the first time in our history.\n\n1011\n00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:24.640\nWe got as high as 224, probably around 220 today.\n\n1012\n00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:26.520\nAnd let's not be complacent.\n\n1013\n00:46:26.520 --> 00:46:29.800\nWe're not even halfway done about where we need to go as a company.\n\n1014\n00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:34.600\nAnd I think when you look at the opportunities that we have, we have so many\n\n1015\n00:46:34.600 --> 00:46:35.760\nopportunities\n\n1016\n00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:36.760\nin international.\n\n1017\n00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:40.590\nI mean, our market share in international is so small relative to our\n\n1018\n00:46:40.590 --> 00:46:41.560\ncompetitors, but\n\n1019\n00:46:41.560 --> 00:46:42.880\nit's one of our fastest growing.\n\n1020\n00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:46.900\nI'd really love to see us grow the brand and grow our business footprint in\n\n1021\n00:46:46.900 --> 00:46:47.840\ninternational.\n\n1022\n00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:51.320\nI talked about coverage and ubiquity of that coverage.\n\n1023\n00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:56.010\nI think there's so much more we can still do from a consumer perspective in\n\n1024\n00:46:56.010 --> 00:46:56.640\nterms of\n\n1025\n00:46:56.640 --> 00:46:59.480\nmeeting more of the financial needs of the consumers.\n\n1026\n00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:04.600\nA few years ago, we bought a company called Rezi, which has quickly become one\n\n1027\n00:47:04.600 --> 00:47:05.120\nof the\n\n1028\n00:47:05.120 --> 00:47:09.940\nmost significant dining applications, obviously in a restaurant business, not\n\n1029\n00:47:09.940 --> 00:47:11.040\nonly for restaurant\n\n1030\n00:47:11.040 --> 00:47:13.160\ntours, but for card members alike.\n\n1031\n00:47:13.160 --> 00:47:17.870\nAnd so I think there are other things for us to continue to provide value to\n\n1032\n00:47:17.870 --> 00:47:18.520\nour card\n\n1033\n00:47:18.520 --> 00:47:19.520\nmembers.\n\n1034\n00:47:19.520 --> 00:47:20.520\nI mean, that's what we're about.\n\n1035\n00:47:20.520 --> 00:47:26.180\nHow do we expand our organic footprint today to be even bigger in how we\n\n1036\n00:47:26.180 --> 00:47:27.800\nprovide services\n\n1037\n00:47:27.800 --> 00:47:31.210\nand experiences to our card members, both in the United States and\n\n1038\n00:47:31.210 --> 00:47:32.320\ninternationally, and\n\n1039\n00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:35.480\nboth from a small business perspective and from a consumer perspective?\n\n1040\n00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.280\nSee, this has been so much fun.\n\n1041\n00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:40.890\nI want to have a little bit more with you with my lightning round of questions\n\n1042\n00:47:40.890 --> 00:47:41.680\nthat I always\n\n1043\n00:47:41.680 --> 00:47:43.760\ngo, \"So are you ready for this?\"\n\n1044\n00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:44.760\nI think so.\n\n1045\n00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:46.760\nI'm sure you are.\n\n1046\n00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:49.600\nWhat three words best describe you?\n\n1047\n00:47:49.600 --> 00:47:56.840\nIntense, funny, my wife won't agree with that, and on all the time.\n\n1048\n00:47:56.840 --> 00:47:59.480\nWhat's your biggest pet peeve?\n\n1049\n00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:01.480\nPeople that don't work today at potential.\n\n1050\n00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:04.640\nWhat's the number of times you've lost your AMEX card?\n\n1051\n00:48:04.640 --> 00:48:05.640\nToo many.\n\n1052\n00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:09.840\nWhat American Express card do you carry?\n\n1053\n00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:16.980\nI carry the Centurion card, the Platinum card, the Gold card, the Green card\n\n1054\n00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:18.200\nand the Delta\n\n1055\n00:48:18.200 --> 00:48:22.320\ncard and the Corporate card as well.\n\n1056\n00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:26.210\nWhat's something most people don't know about their credit card that they\n\n1057\n00:48:26.210 --> 00:48:26.840\nshould?\n\n1058\n00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:30.840\nThere's a lot of value in your credit card, and you should really explore the\n\n1059\n00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:31.600\nbenefits.\n\n1060\n00:48:31.600 --> 00:48:33.920\nWho would play you in a movie?\n\n1061\n00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:34.920\nRay Romano.\n\n1062\n00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:35.920\nThat's easy.\n\n1063\n00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:41.040\nWhat's your best finish in your American Express golf tournament?\n\n1064\n00:48:41.040 --> 00:48:42.840\nTied for third.\n\n1065\n00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:45.000\nThat's not bad.\n\n1066\n00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:47.440\nDescribe your last pinch me moment.\n\n1067\n00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:50.900\nAs I said early on, I think my last pinch me moment is every day when I get to\n\n1068\n00:48:50.900 --> 00:48:51.400\nwalk in\n\n1069\n00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.040\nhere and sit in this seat.\n\n1070\n00:48:53.040 --> 00:48:55.960\nWhat's the best part about growing up in the Queens?\n\n1071\n00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:57.040\nPeople were real.\n\n1072\n00:48:57.040 --> 00:49:02.320\nPeople were authentic, and I still have my best friends from kindergarten.\n\n1073\n00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.280\nIf I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?\n\n1074\n00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.440\nYou'd hear classic rock.\n\n1075\n00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:11.440\nWhat's something about you that few people would know?\n\n1076\n00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:12.440\nI love theater.\n\n1077\n00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:13.440\nAll right.\n\n1078\n00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:14.640\nYou did that lightning round.\n\n1079\n00:49:14.640 --> 00:49:15.640\nYou were great.\n\n1080\n00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:17.280\nI don't know how lightning it was.\n\n1081\n00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:18.280\nI think I paused.\n\n1082\n00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:21.580\nI think if we were on sort of family feud, the clock might have ran out a\n\n1083\n00:49:21.580 --> 00:49:22.400\nlittle bit.\n\n1084\n00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.320\nBy the time we added it, it'll be very lightning.\n\n1085\n00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.660\nYou sit on the board of both your alma mater's at Manhattan College, and then\n\n1086\n00:49:31.660 --> 00:49:32.280\nalso I'm just\n\n1087\n00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:34.720\nin your high school as I understand it.\n\n1088\n00:49:34.720 --> 00:49:38.080\nIt seems like you've never forgotten your roots.\n\n1089\n00:49:38.080 --> 00:49:41.990\nWhat tips would you offer leaders on how to stay grounded in the midst of all\n\n1090\n00:49:41.990 --> 00:49:42.720\nthe success\n\n1091\n00:49:42.720 --> 00:49:43.960\nthat you have?\n\n1092\n00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.200\nI mean, never forget where you came from.\n\n1093\n00:49:46.200 --> 00:49:49.160\nI mean, I look out my office, David, and I look at Ellis Island.\n\n1094\n00:49:49.160 --> 00:49:51.080\nMy grandparents came through Ellis Island.\n\n1095\n00:49:51.080 --> 00:49:57.910\nI mean, so a hundred years ago, Giuseppe Squarey, 16 years old, came through\n\n1096\n00:49:57.910 --> 00:50:00.120\nEllis Island, didn't\n\n1097\n00:50:00.120 --> 00:50:05.370\nspeak English, didn't write English, and he set in motion a chain of events\n\n1098\n00:50:05.370 --> 00:50:05.560\nthat his\n\n1099\n00:50:05.560 --> 00:50:08.680\ngrandson is sitting right here.\n\n1100\n00:50:08.680 --> 00:50:12.680\nSo if you think that this was some bequeathed that you were supposed to have\n\n1101\n00:50:12.680 --> 00:50:13.560\nthis, you're\n\n1102\n00:50:13.560 --> 00:50:14.720\nout of your mind.\n\n1103\n00:50:14.720 --> 00:50:19.120\nAnd so for me, I think it's really important that you always stay grounded and\n\n1104\n00:50:19.120 --> 00:50:20.000\nauthentic.\n\n1105\n00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:25.120\nAnd I think that's why my best friend still to this day are guys that I went to\n\n1106\n00:50:25.120 --> 00:50:26.240\nkindergarten\n\n1107\n00:50:26.240 --> 00:50:28.240\nwith or I went to high school with.\n\n1108\n00:50:28.240 --> 00:50:32.240\nAnd staying connected to my high school is so important to me.\n\n1109\n00:50:32.240 --> 00:50:36.240\nOne of my best friends is the president of the school.\n\n1110\n00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:41.280\nAnd I go there to the board meetings and I go to accepted students night every\n\n1111\n00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:41.640\nyear\n\n1112\n00:50:41.640 --> 00:50:44.680\nto talk to kids and parents said, \"Me, why do you do this?\n\n1113\n00:50:44.680 --> 00:50:46.240\nYou don't even live here anymore.\"\n\n1114\n00:50:46.240 --> 00:50:49.920\nI said, \"I want to show kids what the possible is, what the art of the possible\n\n1115\n00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:50.400\nis.\"\n\n1116\n00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:54.930\nAnd the reality is you and your kids are no different than my parents and my\n\n1117\n00:50:54.930 --> 00:50:55.600\nbrothers\n\n1118\n00:50:55.600 --> 00:50:57.280\nthan I were.\n\n1119\n00:50:57.280 --> 00:51:00.600\nAnd I'm not saying you're going to become CEO of American Express, but you can\n\n1120\n00:51:00.600 --> 00:51:01.440\nhave a successful\n\n1121\n00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:02.840\ncareer in business.\n\n1122\n00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:06.840\nAnd Manhattan College, look, I'm chair to board Manhattan College now.\n\n1123\n00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:09.120\nMy dad went to Manhattan College.\n\n1124\n00:51:09.120 --> 00:51:12.760\nSo my father went to Manhattan College, I went to Manhattan College, and it's\n\n1125\n00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:13.160\npart of\n\n1126\n00:51:13.160 --> 00:51:14.160\nthe squirre legacy.\n\n1127\n00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:18.560\nYou know, you and your wife Tina, you have four daughters.\n\n1128\n00:51:18.560 --> 00:51:23.920\nHow has been a girl dad made you better at what you do at work?\n\n1129\n00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.840\nI have to listen a lot more.\n\n1130\n00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:27.840\nYou got to listen.\n\n1131\n00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:33.450\nI mean, they have an opinion and the opinion is legitimate and the opinion is\n\n1132\n00:51:33.450 --> 00:51:34.200\nreal and\n\n1133\n00:51:34.200 --> 00:51:36.120\nthey'll make sure you listen.\n\n1134\n00:51:36.120 --> 00:51:38.840\nThe other thing is they pay attention to detail.\n\n1135\n00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:42.700\nThey pay attention to a lot of detail and, you know, they're always taking care\n\n1136\n00:51:42.700 --> 00:51:43.400\nof me.\n\n1137\n00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:46.750\nI mean, that's the advantage of having daughters is they're always looking out\n\n1138\n00:51:46.750 --> 00:51:47.600\nfor you and taking\n\n1139\n00:51:47.600 --> 00:51:48.760\ncare of me.\n\n1140\n00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:50.520\nAnd my kids take care of me all the time.\n\n1141\n00:51:50.520 --> 00:51:52.160\nI mean, they're always looking out for me.\n\n1142\n00:51:52.160 --> 00:51:54.560\nLike, dad, you look like you got circles under your eyes.\n\n1143\n00:51:54.560 --> 00:51:56.440\nDad, you need to take care of that.\n\n1144\n00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:58.880\nYou need a little bit more rest and so forth.\n\n1145\n00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:00.560\nSo that has been great.\n\n1146\n00:52:00.560 --> 00:52:04.570\nHaving said that, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child at any given\n\n1147\n00:52:04.570 --> 00:52:05.280\nmoment.\n\n1148\n00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:10.080\nYou know, I have one daughter and she's a only child.\n\n1149\n00:52:10.080 --> 00:52:13.240\nYou know, to think about having that multiplied by four.\n\n1150\n00:52:13.240 --> 00:52:15.720\nI mean, that's just an awesome, awesome blessing.\n\n1151\n00:52:15.720 --> 00:52:20.430\nAnd the last question for you, what's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone\n\n1152\n00:52:20.430 --> 00:52:21.040\nwho wants\n\n1153\n00:52:21.040 --> 00:52:23.040\nto improve as a leader?\n\n1154\n00:52:23.040 --> 00:52:29.440\nFeedback is really important and you should always ask for and listen to\n\n1155\n00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:30.680\nfeedback.\n\n1156\n00:52:30.680 --> 00:52:34.080\nAnd then you should evaluate that feedback and, you know, say, \"Well, geez,\n\n1157\n00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:34.440\nthat may\n\n1158\n00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:38.000\nor may not be me,\" but it may be the impression you're giving off.\n\n1159\n00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:39.360\nYou know, they say feedback is a gift.\n\n1160\n00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:42.910\nI believe it truly is a gift and I think you should seek out feedback and then\n\n1161\n00:52:42.910 --> 00:52:43.280\nI think\n\n1162\n00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:46.200\nyou should evaluate that feedback and go back to looking in that mirror.\n\n1163\n00:52:46.200 --> 00:52:47.200\nI think it's a two-way street.\n\n1164\n00:52:47.200 --> 00:52:50.600\nI think you need to give yourself feedback and you need to get feedback.\n\n1165\n00:52:50.600 --> 00:52:54.470\nBut on the same token, you need to play it forward and make sure you're\n\n1166\n00:52:54.470 --> 00:52:55.680\nproviding feedback\n\n1167\n00:52:55.680 --> 00:52:59.240\nto your direct reports and others so that they can grow as leaders.\n\n1168\n00:52:59.240 --> 00:53:02.240\nFeedback is the way I think that we grow as leaders.\n\n1169\n00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:03.240\nGreat advice, Steve.\n\n1170\n00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:07.600\nAnd I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this conversation.\n\n1171\n00:53:07.600 --> 00:53:09.240\nYou are the real deal.\n\n1172\n00:53:09.240 --> 00:53:11.640\nYou are a guy who's made it happen.\n\n1173\n00:53:11.640 --> 00:53:16.520\nFind the latter, exceeded expectations, not for your mom, not for your dad.\n\n1174\n00:53:16.520 --> 00:53:18.480\nIt's certainly not for yourself.\n\n1175\n00:53:18.480 --> 00:53:22.200\nAnd you've shown the world what you can do if you believe in yourself and you\n\n1176\n00:53:22.200 --> 00:53:23.400\nwork hard.\n\n1177\n00:53:23.400 --> 00:53:24.400\nThank you.\n\n1178\n00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:28.800\nI'm still, my father, if he was alive, would still be shocked by this because\n\n1179\n00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:29.440\nthis is well\n\n1180\n00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:30.640\nbeyond his expectations.\n\n1181\n00:53:30.640 --> 00:53:35.210\nI'll just tell you a quick story about, I was probably about 12 years ago, we\n\n1182\n00:53:35.210 --> 00:53:35.620\nwere\n\n1183\n00:53:35.620 --> 00:53:39.000\nsitting in the kitchen and my father would come over, you know, every other\n\n1184\n00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:39.520\nSaturday\n\n1185\n00:53:39.520 --> 00:53:43.980\nand he'd make risotto and we'd sit there and he'd say to me, \"Hey, did you ever\n\n1186\n00:53:43.980 --> 00:53:44.320\nthink\n\n1187\n00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:47.120\nand I think I was like a group president or something at the time, do you ever\n\n1188\n00:53:47.120 --> 00:53:47.440\nthink\n\n1189\n00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:49.320\nyou'd be successful as you are?\"\n\n1190\n00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:52.440\nAnd I thought this was like one of these great father-son moments.\n\n1191\n00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:55.880\nAnd before I got a chance to answer, he said, \"I didn't.\"\n\n1192\n00:53:55.880 --> 00:53:57.360\nAnd I said, \"What do you mean you didn't?\"\n\n1193\n00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:59.520\nHe goes, \"Well, I didn't mean that in a bad way.\"\n\n1194\n00:53:59.520 --> 00:54:01.880\nI said, \"Well, how could I take that in a good way?\"\n\n1195\n00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:03.520\nHe goes, \"Yeah, I guess you're right.\n\n1196\n00:54:03.520 --> 00:54:06.760\nBut I'm honest with you, I didn't think you'd be this successful.\"\n\n1197\n00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:13.170\nSo this would have been clearly well out of his realm of plausibility for his\n\n1198\n00:54:13.170 --> 00:54:13.880\nson.\n\n1199\n00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:18.040\nWell, well deserved and it's great to see you spreading the values that you\n\n1200\n00:54:18.040 --> 00:54:18.520\nlearned\n\n1201\n00:54:18.520 --> 00:54:22.600\nas a kid in one of the greatest companies in the world and with one of the\n\n1202\n00:54:22.600 --> 00:54:23.640\nbiggest brands.\n\n1203\n00:54:23.640 --> 00:54:25.320\nSo thank you very much.\n\n1204\n00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:26.320\nThanks, pal.\n\n1205\n00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:27.720\nIt's always good spending time with you.\n\n1206\n00:54:27.720 --> 00:54:41.200\nTake care.\n\n1207\n00:54:41.200 --> 00:54:45.630\nYou know, I've heard it said that amateurs want praise, but professionals want\n\n1208\n00:54:45.630 --> 00:54:46.560\nfeedback.\n\n1209\n00:54:46.560 --> 00:54:50.970\nAnd you could really hear that mindset in the way Steve Squery leads himself\n\n1210\n00:54:50.970 --> 00:54:51.400\nand his\n\n1211\n00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:52.800\nteam.\n\n1212\n00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.560\nAs he says, \"You've got to be willing to look yourself in the mirror and be\n\n1213\n00:54:56.560 --> 00:54:57.040\nhonest\n\n1214\n00:54:57.040 --> 00:54:59.480\nabout what's not ideal.\n\n1215\n00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:03.220\nIf you're ready for a new level of growth and development, then make it a habit\n\n1216\n00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:03.840\nto seek\n\n1217\n00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:06.960\nout feedback and practice self-reflection.\n\n1218\n00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.960\nI'm telling you, it is a game changer.\n\n1219\n00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:15.270\nThis week, reach out to a colleague you trust and ask them to tell you what one\n\n1220\n00:55:15.270 --> 00:55:15.840\nof your\n\n1221\n00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:18.240\nblind spots is.\n\n1222\n00:55:18.240 --> 00:55:22.640\nNow I got to warn you, you're probably not going to like what you hear.\n\n1223\n00:55:22.640 --> 00:55:28.050\nBut take that feedback, examine it, let us spark that all important process of\n\n1224\n00:55:28.050 --> 00:55:30.080\nself-reflection.\n\n1225\n00:55:30.080 --> 00:55:34.720\nI guarantee it's going to help you become an even better leader.\n\n1226\n00:55:34.720 --> 00:55:36.880\nSo do you want to know how leaders lead?\n\n1227\n00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:42.240\nWhat we learned today is that great leaders create a habit of self-reflection.\n\n1228\n00:55:42.240 --> 00:55:46.200\nComing up next on How Leaders Lead is, well, me.\n\n1229\n00:55:46.200 --> 00:55:50.960\nI have a brand new book called How Leaders Learn Coming Out on June 4th.\n\n1230\n00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:56.490\nAnd so next week on the podcast, the CEO of David Novak Leadership, Tim Schur,\n\n1231\n00:55:56.490 --> 00:55:57.040\nwill be\n\n1232\n00:55:57.040 --> 00:56:00.480\ninterviewing me about the way I lead.\n\n1233\n00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:04.070\nThanks again for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders Lead, where every\n\n1234\n00:56:04.070 --> 00:56:04.840\nThursday you\n\n1235\n00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:09.240\nget to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.\n\n1236\n00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:13.230\nI make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can\n\n1237\n00:56:13.230 --> 00:56:14.240\napply to your\n\n1238\n00:56:14.240 --> 00:56:17.720\nbusiness so that you will become the best leader you can be.\n\n1239\n00:56:17.720 --> 00:56:27.720\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n\n1240\n00:56:27.720 --> 00:56:37.720\n[ Silence ]","

Koula Callahan 0:00

Before we get going with today's episode, I am so excited to announce that David's new book how leaders learn is available for pre order now, the book is all about helping you master the habit of active learning, which is the number one skill of the world's most successful leaders. David's new book how leaders learn, we'll teach you how to become an active learner so that you too can experience success you really want to see in your life and in your career. preorder the book today and then forward your receipt to book at how leaders lead.com So you can get immediate access to exclusive bonus content, including an audio summary from David himself, preorder how leaders learn today, then forward your receipt to book at how leaders lead.com and get excited to get your book in the mail. I promise you're gonna love it.

David Novak 0:53

Welcome to how leaders lead where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world, I break down the key learnings so that by the end of the episode, you'll have something simple you can apply as you develop into a better leader. That's what this podcast is all about. My guest today is Steve squarey, the CEO and chairman of American Express, and I gotta tell you, it takes a really special leader to lead an iconic brand that's been around for 174 years, and keep taking it to higher and higher heights. And Steve is definitely that guy. One of the many things I like about Steve is his willingness to seek out feedback and honestly ask himself what he could be doing better. You know, we all want to improve as leaders, but sometimes we overlook the amount of self reflection it takes to actually do it, it can be really uncomfortable to ask for feedback and create space for honest self reflection. But boy, when you develop that habit, it's like giving yourself rocket fuel. And Steve is a phenomenal example of that mindset. I know you're going to learn so much today. So here's my conversation with my good friend, and soon to be yours, Steve squarey.

You know, Steve, I've had a lot of fun with you in the past, we've had the opportunity to play a little bit of golf. And there's that old saying that you can learn a lot about a person by playing around a golf with him. And, and one thing I learned when we played is that when it was time to tee off, you really wanted that scorecard. You wanted to keep score. What's that say about your leadership style.

Steve Squeri 2:38

My leadership style is one that I get into the detail. And I think to use a golf analogy, I tee it up all the time. I mean, I tee it up 24/7 I think when you're in a role like this, these jobs are all consuming. And if you're not willing to go that extra mile, if you're not willing to grind, and you're not willing to commit to being the best possible leader that you can be, then you shouldn't be in these jobs.

David Novak 3:05

And that's one of the things I really loved about playing with you. And we had a good time, and you grind and you try on every hole and you're cheering me on the whole way. And you stay positive even when things weren't necessarily going our way. How does that mindset show up and the way how you run American Express? Yeah,

Steve Squeri 3:24

I think it's something that I learned from my parents, especially my father, you know, I mean, in growing up, family of Italian immigrants, my father was the first one in the family really to go to college. And my father would always tell us, you can never get too high. And you can never get too low, no matter how things shake out. And I watched him navigate life. And I think as you lead a company like this, you're always going to have highs and you're always going to have lows. And one of the things that I think I've learned since I became the CEO is that how the CEO sets the tone, is how the tone goes for the entire company. And so I think it's really important that, you know, when things are going well, you stay even keel. But when things aren't going so well, you also stay even keel. But by staying even keel and not getting too emotional over things. It allows you to focus and to problem solve, right? You don't want to be assessing blame you want to problem solve. And I think that's been important. So for me, my leadership style has always been one that is balanced, never get too high, never get too low and just continue to focus. And

David Novak 4:31

you're a really fierce competitor. And as you mentioned, you are grinder you never give up. Tell us a story in the business setting where this really paid off for you and the team. I'll go back

Steve Squeri 4:43

years and years ago when y2k was you know, around. And what was interesting about that is this goes back to 1997. And the reason I'll pick this story is because it had such a huge impact on the company at that particular point in time. And I remember Harvey Gollob was the CEO at the time. And we needed somebody to lead y 2k for the company. And I was in a room with other senior executives, some more senior than me. And I volunteered, you know, for that role. And people sort of snickered at me when I volunteered for that role. Because they said, you know, if you kind of screwed this thing up, your career is over. And I said to him, If I screw this thing up, everybody's career is over, right. And so you know what, for me, what I needed to do there was not only do my existing job, but I had to find the bandwidth to do this extra function and do it well. And the lesson there that people should take out of that is that when you have an opportunity to volunteer to make an impact and accompany sees it, there's no reward without risk. And it gave me tremendous exposure to Harvey to Kenshin, Alt to the board. And it really set me up later on. And it made a difference. Because, look, we were able to navigate, it was a two and a half year assignment, we navigated through the entire y2k situation. And obviously, like other companies, we came out on the other side, fine, but you didn't know that at the time. And so for me, you know, it showed that you really had a grind at that point, because think about doing your current job, which was a big job, I was the senior vice president, which weren't the top 140 jobs at the company at the time, but then also doing this other job, which quite honestly, could have been done on a full time basis.

David Novak 6:35

You know, you've been at American Express for almost 40 years. What did it mean to you stayed to get chosen internally, and get that nod to be the CEO. I mean, American Express is one of the premier brands of the world premier companies in the world. You get go outside, do you get really, really, you know, amazing talent.

Steve Squeri 6:55

It's interesting, because people said to me, what was your path to, you know, to CEO, and it's not something I ever focused on. I mean, I just love growing up, the way I grew up, you know, it's not a silver spoon. And I had risen to the level of vice chairman in the company, which was, you know, probably 10 levels beyond my wildest dreams at that point. And so when Ken said to me, Look, you're going to be the next chairman and CEO. And he told me this at Shinnecock, by the way, I said to him, you know, it's pretty hot out there, do you have heatstroke, you know, but he said, Look, I think you are the guy that can lead this company going forward. And, David, when you start at a company at pretty much the entry level at a manager position, you're at the company for 32 years, and one of the most respected CEOs in the world tells you that he wants you to succeed him. It's not a dream come true. Because it's not a dream you ever had. Right? It's just an honor. You know, I was flabbergasted by that I was humbled by it. And you know, it's also a huge burden, though, to write. Because, you know, when you are chosen to lead a company like this, I'm like to 12 CEO in the history of 174 year old company. And so just think about that, that's an awesome responsibility. But more importantly, you now have responsibility for 75,000 colleagues, the decisions that you make impact people's lives on an ongoing basis. And you have to realize that that's all part of it, I think the other thing you have to realize is that when you're leading a company like this, the company is not here to serve you. You are here to serve the company. And you have to inconvenience yourself to convenience, the many, which is the colleagues in our company. And so, being here, 33 years ascending to this position, it's really unbelievable. I mean, I can come into the office on some days and just pinch myself, and wonder if somebody's just gonna say, hey, you know, what, the gig is up, it's it was a joke, and you know, you're no longer going to be the CEO anymore.

David Novak 9:05

Well, it's interesting, you made a comment that you have to inconvenience yourself to convenience, the many. What do you mean by that? Exactly?

Steve Squeri 9:14

You know, I'll give you a great example. I was doing a town hall, you know, a few years ago, and we're gonna do a town hall, you know, virtually for our Australian colleagues. Well, yeah, it'd be great to do the town hall, you know, at like 12 o'clock in afternoon your time. But that's four in the morning in Australia. So instead, due to town hall at midnight, when it's for an afternoon in Australia, I mean, it's those kinds of things. And it says, I will tell you this, it sends a huge message to people that you know, you're willing to go out of your way so that they don't have to go out of their way. And if you think about the amount of time and effort that and you see this in number of companies where people do somersaults and backflips to acquiesce to leadership. The reality is leadership should be doing somersaults and backflips to acquiesce to the colleague base. That's the way it should be. And so you need to put yourself out of out of your comfort zone to support your people, because ultimately, they're doing the really hard work. Right, they are really doing the hard work here and doing the heavy lifting. You

David Novak 10:25

know, speaking of hard work, you know, a lot of people I talked to, especially CEOs, that used to be CEOs, they say they wouldn't want to be a CEO today, it is kind of environment, because you've got social media, all this pressure on diversity and inclusion and all the governance issues. How do you think about that, Steve? Well,

Steve Squeri 10:49

I think, look, you know, I've always said, If you don't want to see it on the front of the Wall Street Journal, then don't do it, you just tell my kids that, as I think about it, it goes back to the values of the company, when we make decisions, you know, we try and make decisions, are they within our values, and our values really drive our culture. And if you're not willing to take the heat sometimes and get out of the kitchen as the old expression goes. And so it's very different. I think, today being a CEO than it was, you know, probably just four or five years ago, I mean, between, you know, social media, the number of issues that are out there that you have to face, whether they're from a diversity perspective of social, governmental, what have you. And I think, you know, for us, what really guides us is we use our values to guide our decisions. And we try and do what's right, for our colleagues and our customers. And so, as we have a framework for how we weigh in on things, we go to our values, and then we look at do these things impact our colleagues in a significant way? And do they impact our customers, and then, you know, look, you're never going to make everybody happy. That's not your job, your job is to make the best decisions possible for the companies taking into account all the constituencies that we have with our shareholders, customers, colleagues and community.

David Novak 12:09

I remember talking to you about diversity and the power of diversity, and you were really proud of the job that you've done in that area. Tell us about it, and how you've approached it to get the results that you think are terrific.

Steve Squeri 12:24

For me. Inclusion was really important. I want a company where everybody can be themselves. I don't want people to come to work, and have to act. You know, we spend so much time at work that if you can't be yourself, then why are you here, our values are really around diversity, equity and inclusion. And our leadership team is aware of that, and our leadership team values that what we're talking about is opening up your aperture to make sure that you are bringing in the widest point of views bringing in the widest collection of talent and the most diverse collection of talent that you can have available to you. And I think that makes us a better company. I think that makes us a more fun place to work. And I think it drives better results for us.

David Novak 13:18

I know you're a very humble guy. But if you had to pick the towering strength that helped you get to the position that you're at today, what would it be

Steve Squeri 13:29

two things. Number one, being able to look in the mirror and realize what you're good at, and where your shortcomings are. I think so many people so many times just focus on what they're good at. And don't want to look in that mirror and say, Hey, this is where I'm not so good. And I can use to develop a little bit more. And I think the second thing that goes right along with that, is you have to be an agile learner. You have to be willing to learn. And once you stop your journey of learning, it's kind of over and I don't think anybody ever stops that journey of learning. I mean, look at you. I mean, you're doing what you're doing now after a wildly successful career. And you're learning every day by doing some of these podcasts, right? I think those are the two things that have really helped me grow as a not only as an individual, but as a leader as well is being able to look in that mirror and say who you really are. And then the ability to be an agile learner.

David Novak 14:28

Tell us a story about the biggest leadership lesson you learned on the way up, you know, by having this self reflection that you're talking about. The

Steve Squeri 14:37

biggest leadership lesson I ever learned, was probably when I was 18 years old from my mother. When I went to Manhattan, I would work full time at Bloomingdale's on 59th Street. So I take the train up to Manhattan College, take the train back down, get off and go to Bloomingdale's. And you know, so there you were in Bloomingdale's, and I was a stock guy you know and doing various different things. And you know, whether it was working in the rug, department, design department, whatever it might be whatever I could do. And, you know, back in those days, you know, if you weren't in the Graduate Management Program at Bloomingdale's, you're just a stock guy you sort of looked down on and I and I remember going home and being frustrated. And my mother used to always say to me, she said two things, she said, You can be anything you want to be if you put your mind to it. And as I'm not so sure about that, Mom, they went to Columbia, they went to Yale, or in a training program, I, you know, I'm in Manhattan, they asked me where I go, you know, my go to community college, and so forth. She said, the other thing is, which is important is, don't let anybody tell you what you're capable of doing. Because only you know, what you're truly capable of. And that got me to sort of look a lot more in the mirror, about who I was and what I could do. And I still go back and people say me, what's the best business advice you ever got? And it was from my mother. And I've changed it a little bit over the years to be a little bit more business speak. And that was, don't let anybody set your goals for you. Because only you know what you can truly accomplish? And if you think about that, why should anybody set a ceiling for you? Why shouldn't you set the ceiling for yourself, and then strive to get there. And that has stood with me. But that then if I go back to those other two points, which I never would have thought about that back then. But that then says, hey, look, you have to look in that mirror, and you have to be an agile learner, if you want to get to where you want to go, Oh,

David Novak 16:38

I was really amazed to learn that you'd been in the same company for 40 years. That's a long time. And I have to believe that there had to be a time when you thought about leaving, you know, when was it? And how do you work through it? And why did you stay?

Steve Squeri 16:56

There were a number of times early on, where I thought that this might not be the place for me. And I interviewed outside and decided to stay but I'll tell you why. Why almost left and why I stayed, I was told so many times during my career, this would be the highest level I would ever achieve. I was told that when I was made a director of Vice President, a Senior Vice President, that this was it, don't expect any more. Okay. And I go back to what my mom said, they were putting a ceiling on top of me. And those words in her mind, you know, rang out to me that you could do whatever you want to do. Which is true. And don't let anybody tell you what you can or cannot do. And the reason I stayed was for two reasons. Number one, this company offers tremendous opportunities. And number two, I wanted to prove them wrong. I wanted to prove them wrong. And most of those people that told me I couldn't, never reached anywhere near where I reached. And so I guess you could say, I had a chip on my shoulder. And I think that chip on my shoulder has served me has served me well. That's why I stayed. I still felt it was a great company to learn that. And that's really, really important to me. And it had lots and lots of opportunities. But the other point and going back to how we started this from a competitive perspective, from a competitive perspective, I wanted to show these people they were wrong. And I did.

Koula Callahan 18:43

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David Novak 19:37

And when you first took over as CEO of American Express, I understand you've met with your top 100 executives. Talk more about that what you really tried to find out and why you did it.

Steve Squeri 19:48

tensional and I had a great transition. And you know you've seen lots of situations where when the current CEO is leaving and then new CEO is coming in, you get some friction. And over time they sort of go apart. I'm probably closer with Ken now, today than I've ever been. He was a tremendous supporter of me personally. But even during the transition, and what he said to me, he gave me great advice. He said, Do it the way you think it should be done, not the way you think I would do it. Now, that's tremendous confidence, right? I mean, that's a guy that has tremendous confidence. And that was really good advice. And, you know, again, go back to what I said about looking in the mirror, well, I think the company needs to look in the mirror. And as CEO, I needed to look in the mirror. And so I said, what better way, then to go out and talk to the top 100 leaders in the company, and I spent 45 minutes with them, with each one of them. And most of them were in person, you know, if they were in England, or someone I didn't happen to be in London, we did it over the phone. But what I said to them, as I said, Look, what should we do more of as a company? What should we stop doing? What do you hope that I will do? And what are you absolutely afraid I'm going to do, and anything else that's on your mind, and it was a great learning and what it showed, and what I was trying to show was that we were in this together, we were going to collaborate, we were going to win as a team. And I think that was really important, because then the next step that I took, after that was was my top executives put together something that we call the framework for winning, that talked about our mission, our strategic priorities, how we're going to win, what we were looking for in leaders, the values that we had. And what I also then did is said, Look, we're gonna run this as an enterprise. Up until then, we had run it as individual business units from a scorekeeping perspective. And, you know, look competitive, people want to keep score to the right way. But I felt that, you know, one plus one, plus one should not equal three, it should equal four. And by looking at this more from an enterprise perspective, and having everybody have the same skin in the game, that was really important. And so what I learned was, people really wanted to work together, people really wanted that enterprise feeling. And they didn't want that feeling of, hey, look, you're in one business unit, I'm in the other business unit. And in addition to competing on the outside, we're going to compete internally for the best ratings. And so what I did is I eliminated this concept of business unit ratings, and we had multiple business units. And I basically said, we're all going to sink or swim on how the company does now we will have our individual goals. But the only rating that's going to matter for people is what the company gets. And that changed the dynamic a little bit because as we were having investment conversations, what we saw was, hey, where should we put the money as a group, not, you know, what he got an extra 50 million to invest was my 50 million at the end of the first year, one of my direct reports came up to me and said, you know, we invested an extra $600 million this year that we didn't originally have in the plan. And I only got 10 million of that. And I'm like, Okay, here we go. And he said, That was absolutely the right decision. And he said, what really makes me feel good, is I had a voice in where that 600 million went. And so what I found by talking to all those people was that they really wanted to collaborate, they really wanted to operate as an enterprise. And that's what we did. And I think that's helped really drive our success. You

David Novak 23:36

know, one of the questions that you asked, which I hadn't heard of before, because you know, a lot of people go on listening tours, and you know, want to get the feedback. But I love this question is, what are you afraid I'm gonna do? Well, what's the big thing you heard?

Steve Squeri 23:49

The biggest thing was Don't act too quickly without truly understanding everything. And, you know, prior to taking over CEO, it was probably 25 or 30% of the company. And it hadn't worked for me, right. And I was more of a guy that was kind of in the background, I did a lot of different roles for Ken. And one of the big things I did was sort of the reengineering of you know, 2015 2016. And so I think people were afraid that I may not listen, and people were afraid that I was going to act too quickly, because I haven't made a decision I didn't want to make, I think that was really good. I think what you really needed to do was to demonstrate to people you were thoughtful, to demonstrate to people that you were taking the input, you know, because you're loud, because you multitask, because you may appear at times, like you're not listening doesn't mean you're not listening. And so what I realized taken out of that was look, take a step back, get even some more input and be a little bit more deliberate because you don't want waiting a day to make a decision is not going to make too much of a difference in the grand scheme of things. If you're You know, you're talking about stopping an initiative or something like that. And so what I tried to do was take people more through my thought process, try to even listen more and sometimes listening more, it was just being more attentive. You know, you could say, well, I'm listening, and my father has saved me all the time. A dad, you know, I'd be looking at TV, I'm listening to you. And he actually was you just he was a great multitasker. So I think they were just afraid for areas that I didn't know, I had a preconceived notion and was going to act. And that was one of the things that that I heard a lot of. And so you know, you just took that off the table?

David Novak 25:36

And how did you let people know that you really heard that?

Steve Squeri 25:40

I think you demonstrate that right. And, you know, one of the things that I still do today, when I make a decision, I try and take people through my thought process, I try and take people through the thought process of why we did what we did. I'll do that in town halls, I'll do that in one on one meetings, I think every time you have an interaction with your colleagues, it is an opportunity to teach and it's an opportunity for them to learn. And you know, this as you sit in this seat, this seat is very different than any other seat you could ever sit in, in any company. And it's different, because it's a one on one job, you don't have really colleagues that are, you know, sort of, you know, equivalent with you, you have direct reports, you work for a board. It's a lonely job. And so taking him through how you thought about it, and taking him through some of the things that you face. I'm very public, about how I feel about the job. And I'm very public about with my team, how I think about things.

David Novak 26:44

How do you go about getting feedback today, Steve, you know,

Steve Squeri 26:48

it's interesting, I was just, I just had somebody in here. And we were talking about how do I become a better leader. And, you know, one of the things that I'm pretty happy about with my team is, they're not afraid to tell me when they disagree with me at all, I've got people that speak up. And what they've known is that no one's ever going to get burned. Because they disagreed with me. I'd like him to disagree with me, the only thing that I ever say is I disagree. But let's disagree respectfully. And let's have alternatives. And so I think my team will tell you that, you know, they have an opportunity to tell me what's on their mind. And no, there'll be no repercussions. Having said that, I think what's important is for me to be a better leader, as I you know, move through, I mean, just starting your seven now as CEO, what would my team really want me to work on? You know, because it's one thing to get feedback in an individual situation, right? Hey, you know, we disagree with that. Have you tried that. But one of the things that that I'm going to do this year, is work with somebody to work with my team, to basically say, hey, look, if you could make Steve better. That's not hard. It's a wide open range of things, right? If you could make him better? What are the two things or three things you would hope that he would focus on? So it gets back, David to that? What do we hope for Steve? What do we hope that he would do? And I think, you know, you say, look, 65 years old, seven years into job? Why do you care? Goes back to being an agile learner, you care because you want to continue to grow. And so I think it's at the right time for me to talk with my team. And I know, I'll get really good feedback of look, you know, what we wish Steve would modulate this up that let us do this more, so forth and so on. And so we'll see how that works out. Maybe if this works out? Well, we can do podcast to what happened to Steve after his feedback.

David Novak 28:55

I would love it, you know, but obviously, you've got real religion on self awareness. I mean, you really believe that's a key thing. Do you have any stories when someone earlier on in your career helped you identify a blind spot in your own leadership?

Steve Squeri 29:10

Because a lot of blind spots that I had early on, and this goes back probably to the Accenture days, because I spent four years at Accenture before was Arthur Andersen at the time. But we say Accenture now was on the consulting side. And I had a manager at that particular point in time. That said to me, you know, you are treating everyone the same. And they're not as my like my first management job. And this is one that I think permeated throughout my career because he said, I'll make the names up. You got Joe over here, who's more experienced than on this assignment for you over the last two years. You've come in as as the lead on this thing. And you have Sally over here. Who's brand new? Why would you treat them the same? And, David, what you realize about that is that everybody has a different context. And one of the things I always talk about with my team now is what's the context, everybody has a different context. And when you think about it, the person that had more experience didn't need me sort of grinding over them. The person that had less experience needed me leading and helping a little bit more. And so I think, you know, what I learned from that early on is you have to morph your leadership style, to meet the situation. I mean, look, we we hear about this, and, and I know, you've interviewed a number of athletes on this as well. But, you know, you hear about coaches that have one way to do it, it's the, you know, it's the Patriot way, or it's this way, or it's the other way, I don't think that really works in business. To this day, I don't treat every single direct report the same way. Because they all have a different context. They have more experience, less experience, newer enroll, and so forth. And so that lesson from, you know, 44 years ago, still plays out today. And so I wasn't self aware enough to know that people are at a different point, because think about it, your 24 year old kid, and it's like, okay, I'm now in charge. Nobody teaches you, right? I mean, it's not like, Okay, you're going to now lead people. So you say, I'm going to do it this way. The other thing, I think that, you know, people make a mistake of so many leaders make mistakes, especially young leaders. When they get put in a job, they try and prove right away, why they're in that job. You don't need to prove our way your actions over time will prove why you're in that job, you don't need to make some big statement coming out of the gate. You need to sort of feel the moment a little bit more. You

David Novak 31:53

know, Steve, you said earlier, the minute you stop learning, you start dying? How have you cascaded that belief throughout American Express?

Steve Squeri 32:01

I think, you know, one of the things that we do a really great job of here is from our CG, our colleague experience group, is offering tremendous opportunities for people to learn both as leaders and from a functional perspective. And just from some storytelling as well. I mean, I'll talk about the development journey that I've been on, as I said, I think it's a constant journey. And, and I think when people hear from the CEO that, you know, learning is important, and that you continue to learn, they can decide to pick up on it or not, but then you got to put your money where your mouth is. And so if we didn't have the programs available to our colleagues, you can't say to people learning is really important. But when I get that learning, I have no idea, go figure it out, right. And so we do have a great curriculum from a leadership perspective, and from a functional skills perspective as well.

David Novak 32:49

When I think of American Express, I think of one of the great brands in the world. How do you as the CEO, define the brand? And how do you decide when you're going to change it?

Steve Squeri 33:02

Yeah. So look, this brand has always stood for security, trust and integrity. And you never want to lose that we started as a freight forwarding company, and now we're doing payments, right. And so if you think about this, when you were shipping something from New York to California, you had to trust the carrier that was taking it, you had to know that there was security, and that there was integrity in that? Well, when you give me all your personal information, you need to ensure that I'm gonna take care of it, you could trust me with it, and I'm gonna have integrity. And so I think those are the key brand attributes. What you do on the edges with this is one of the things that we have done. One of the things that's really driven our growth is making the brand more accessible. We've made the brand more accessible, particularly to millennials and Gen Zers. And so I wouldn't say we've changed the brand. But we've communicated those attributes and those value propositions about the brand in a way that resonates with a different cohort. And so those are the big decisions I think you need to make David is that, how do you have the brand speak? And what does it represent and a brand is the most precious asset that we have here. It is one of the top 10 brands, you know, in the world, it has stood the test of time. I am a steward of that brands, at this particular point in time, and I don't want to do anything to damage that brand. But what we need to do is to make sure that that brand speaks to the people that you know, we want to attract into our franchise. And

David Novak 34:45

you're so passionate about customer Steve. I mean, how do you take your passion that you have around customers and obviously is one of the reasons why you rose to the top job. How do you spread that throughout the company?

Steve Squeri 34:58

I don't know how We get the people that we get. But if you went into one of our service centers, you would say, Steve, I know where you got your passion from. It's our customer care professionals, if you were to listen to them on calls with customers, about how much they care about our customers about how much they want to do for our customers, and I have our customer care professionals, talk to our board members, you know, in panels, and so forth, but we have some of the best customer care professionals in the world. And as you go through the organization, people realize that we don't exist without customers. And as a management team, we realize we don't exist, what our customers are without great colleagues that take care of those customers. So I'll give you a great example. During the pandemic, there were two things that we needed to take care of, first, our colleagues to make sure that they were safe and sound and Omen, we got everybody virtually. And we had probably 6000 people, David that did not have internet access, we didn't get rid of them, we paid him for the nine months until they were able to get you to get internet access or to come back to work. Because those were the people. And we took care of them first, because those are the people that needed to take care of our customers. And then as far as our customers go, you know, a lot of our value propositions have a lot of travel benefits to it. And not a lot of people were traveling during COVID. And so what we did was we injected, you know, another billion dollars value into our products, so that they were meaningful for people when they stayed home, whether that was streaming credits, or shipping credits, or cellular credits or dining credits and so forth, that we gave them on their card. And you know, and I've said this in other interviews, how could you do that? I said, Well, look, the reality is, this will be over. Nobody knew when it was going to be over. But you knew it would be over at some point. And the most important thing was that we took care of our colleagues, we took care of our customers, and we took care of our brand. And so I remember I called Warren Buffett owns about 21% Berkshire Hathaway owns 21%, of American Express. And I called him up and I said, Look is April 15, buildings were down 50%. And what I said to him was, you know, it looks like we're going to lose probably $4 a share, our capital position will be good. But I want to invest another billion dollars, you know, in our customers, so we'll probably lose $5 a share. Are you okay with that, and he said to me, look, take care of your customers take care of the brand, you'll be much better off on the other side of it. We didn't lose $4 a share. We made much $4 a share. But it put us on a growth trajectory. And I think people at this company are just passionate about customers.

David Novak 37:57

We'll be back with the rest of my conversation with Steve squarey. In just a moment. Prior to Steve's tenure, American Express was led by Ken Chenault called Ken has also been a guest here on how leaders lead. And in our conversation, you'll hear some of the same themes of feedback that Steve's talking about today, including how you've got to embrace constructive confrontation, if you want to build a strong team,

Ken Chenault 38:22

one of the things that I talked to founders about very directly is eliciting and receiving direct feedback. And so this concept that I used in management of constructive confrontation, do it respectfully. But at the end of the day, what you want with your people, and what you're going to get with me, is I'm going to tell you, how I feel, what my concerns are, what areas you need to develop, let's talk about it. But then let's put a game plan together because one of the things that's important that I really stress to founders or anyone that I'm mentoring is we're all judged by our actions. And so take me through the outcomes, behaviors that you engage in, let's understand what the impacts are. Let's understand what the results are. Because we all gotta be outcome driven. But again, if we want to do something that's really lasting and meaningful, it's got to be motivated by values and principles.

David Novak 39:22

Go back and listen to my entire conversation with Ken episode 68 here on how leaders lead.

You mentioned the fact that, you know, with COVID, obviously people worked at home. And, you know, there are a lot of leaders now that are working remote or there's some sort of hybrid environment that the leader said, what do you do? You know, just from a practical standpoint, what do you do to keep your team connected and In this virtual world,

Steve Squeri 40:01

you know, one of the things that prior to the pandemic we were, we were 20% virtual as a company, we're probably about 30 35%. Now. And, you know, the reality is, if you came in here on a Friday, you probably wouldn't see a lot of people pre pandemic. And so I think we were sort of a little bit hybrid before that. And we had a good percentage of people that that were virtual. So we had a lot of the traps sort of done before that. I think the bigger issue, though was, how do you stay connected to your leadership team? And and how do those leadership teams stay connected to one another, and one of the things that we did pre COVID was, we decided as a leadership team, we would have something that we call meetings week. sounds daunting, but let me explain it. One of the things I noticed as I was going through the company was that, you know, we schedule a lot of meetings, and sometimes people will be calling in from Singapore, or somebody be calling in from London, or they didn't show up and so forth. So you never had the team together. So what I basically said is, look, all of our enterprise meetings that we need to have, we're going to do those during one week, at a month, we'll do our financial reviews, we'll do everything we need to do at one week out of the month, and everybody's going to be there, have my direct reports and our finance team, unless there's a family emergency or something else. And so if you think about it, as a team, we were together 25% of the time. So when COVID hit, we had established that, you know, that real connectivity and collaboration as a team being together. And I think that really helped us. And so what we tried to do with people as they started to come back from COVID, was it was come in with purpose. And so people started to come in, to meet together and so forth. And maybe that was one day a week. And as we've gotten up to it now, we're at three days a week, and I think three days a week is probably for us the right cadence. I think that mentoring is hard, virtually, you know, meetings one on one, virtually a fantastic meetings, one on 15 are not as good sort of Hollywood Squares approach I, you know, I said, you just don't have that dialogue. You know, one of the things I've learned really early on David was that you're in a meeting body language, so important to find out if people are checking out or, or they're not, and you lose some of that, you know, during this virtual environment, and you also lose that sort of hay at the end of the meeting, those little groups that might congregate together to have further on discussions. And so I think for us, we're putting in the right processes, you know, look, we still have some people that are unhappy about coming back in. But I think if you really want to grow your career, longer term, mentoring is important. Collaborating is important, leading in person is important. And I think studies are starting to show that now that I'm not so sure companies are going to be successful if they're 100%, virtual, but I think hybrid is the way to go. And for us, it's probably three days a week,

David Novak 43:00

or you been CEO now for seven years in the same company for 40 years. And one of the things you have a really excellent reputation for is bringing an entrepreneurial approach to, to how you attack the business. What is the biggest problem that you're trying to solve for your customers today?

Steve Squeri 43:20

I think, you know, one of the problems that we have, and I think we're on the road to it is what you used to hear was you couldn't use your card everywhere. In the United States, that's pretty much gone. I mean, the United States were at parity coverage. I think one of the things that we're really working on is how do we have ubiquity internationally as well. And that's going to take some time. But I think we're making a lot of progress on that. And I think that's the biggest thing. You really want ubiquitous coverage. And that's really an important thing for us. Because I don't want people to have another product. People want to use our product all the time. And people want to use our product all the time, because we stand behind them. They know that when they ring us up, or they email us, or they do chat with us, we're gonna get back to him. There's two things that are very different about having an American Express card than any other product. How many other products when you meet somebody, they'll say, Hey, I've been a member since 2000. I've been a member since 2010. You're not going to hear that with any to competitive products. That members since thing mean something. The other thing that I would say is we get phone calls from people in distress all the time. You're not calling your bank, if you're on the side of a road or if you've got a health emergency or something like that, but you will call American Express because you know, we will help you out we will help you out to the best of our ability. That's important. That is really important to us.

David Novak 44:45

And you have this big noble cause of helping people achieve their aspirations. Most brands don't have that lofty goal. I mean, what puts you in position to do that?

Steve Squeri 44:57

It is a lofty, you know in some may say A ridiculous goal, but it's within a box, right? I mean, we're not gonna, if you want to be an astronaut, we're not gonna help you be an astronaut, right. But if you want to achieve your travel aspirations, if you want to help achieve some of your financial aspirations, you know, if you're a card member, and you want to take a trip of a lifetime, we'll put that together for you. If you're a small business, and you need somebody to completely manage the whole thing, whether that's a transaction banking account, a working capital loan, and a small business card, that's going to give you the spending power, we'll put that together for you so that you can achieve your aspiration of success. And so that's what we mean by it. It is a it is a lofty ambition. But it's within the context. Remember, go back to that word context, it's in the context of what we can provide in that, in that sense.

David Novak 45:48

And it started, you know, almost 200 years ago, as a freight forwarding company, and you you've evolved so much. How do you now think, Steve about the future? And taking the company where it needs to go? Go next? What's the next 10 years look like? In your mind? Yeah,

Steve Squeri 46:05

well, I may watch a few of those from the sidelines. But we're at the beginning of a journey, I say this to my leadership team, you know, we've had, we've had some really good success, you know, the stock went past 200. For the first time in our history, we got as high as 224, probably around 220. Today. And let's not be complacent, we're not even halfway done about where we need to go as a company. And I think, you know, when you look at the opportunities that we have, we have so many opportunities in international, I mean, our market share and international is so small relative to our competitors, but it's one of our fastest growing. So I'd really love to see us grow the brand and grow our business footprint International, I talked about coverage and ubiquity of that coverage, I think there's so much more we can still do, from a consumer perspective, in terms of meeting more of the financial needs of consumers. A few years ago, we bought a company called resi, which has quickly become one of the most significant dining applications, obviously, in the restaurant business, not only for restaurant tours, but for card members alike. And so I think there are other things for us to continue to provide value to our card members. I mean, that's what we're about how do we expand our organic footprint today to be even bigger, and how we provide services and experiences to our card members, both in the United States and internationally. And both from a small business perspective, and from a consumer perspective? See,

David Novak 47:35

this been so much fun? And I want to have a little bit more with you with my lightning round of questions that I always go. So are you ready for this?

Steve Squeri 47:43

I think so.

David Novak 47:44

I'm sure you are what three words best describe you.

Steve Squeri 47:48

Intense? Funny, my wife would agree with that. And on all the time,

David Novak 47:56

what's your biggest pet peeve?

Steve Squeri 47:59

People that don't work to a potential?

David Novak 48:00

What's the number of times you've lost your Amex card?

Steve Squeri 48:04

Too many?

David Novak 48:07

What American Express card Do you carry?

Steve Squeri 48:09

I carry the Centurion card, the platinum card, the gold card, the green card and a Delta card. And the corporate card as well.

David Novak 48:22

What's something most people don't know about their credit card that they should?

Steve Squeri 48:26

There's a lot of value in your credit card. And you should really explore the benefits. Who would play you in a movie? Ray Romano? That's easy.

David Novak 48:36

What's your best finish in your American Express golf tournament?

Steve Squeri 48:40

Tied for third? All right, that's not bad.

David Novak 48:44

Describe your last pinch me moment.

Steve Squeri 48:46

As I said early on, I think my last pinch me moment is every day when I get to walk in here and sit in this seat.

David Novak 48:52

What's the best part about growing up with liquids?

Steve Squeri 48:55

People were real. People were authentic. And I still have my best friends from kindergarten. If

David Novak 49:02

I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

Steve Squeri 49:05

You'd hear classic rock.

David Novak 49:07

What's something about you that few people would know?

Steve Squeri 49:10

I love theater. All right.

David Novak 49:13

You did that lightning round. You were great.

Steve Squeri 49:15

I don't know how lightning it was I think I paused I think if we were on you know, sort of Family Feud, the clock might have ran out a little bit

David Novak 49:22

a by the time we added it. It was very light. You know, you sit on the board of both your alma mater said Manhattan College and then also on your high school as I understand it. It seems like you've never forgotten your roots. What tips would you offer leaders on how to stay grounded in the midst of all the success that you have?

Steve Squeri 49:43

I mean, never forget where you came from. I mean, I look at my office, David and I look at Ellis Island. My grandparents came through Ellis Island IV So 100 years ago, Giuseppe squarey is 16 years old, came through Ellis Island didn't speak English didn't write English. And he set in motion a chain of events that his grandson is sitting right here. So if you think that this was some bequeath that you were supposed to have this, you're out of your mind. And so for me, I think it's really important that you always stay grounded and authentic. And I think, you know, that's why my best friends still to this day are guys that, you know, I went to kindergarten with, or I went to high school with and staying connected to my high school is so important to me, one of my best friends, is the president of the school. And I go there, you know, to the board meetings, and I go to accepted students night, every year to talk to kids and parents say me, why do you do this, you don't even live here anymore. I said, I want to show kids what the possible is what the art of the possible is. And the reality is, you and your kids are no different than my parents. And my brothers and I were, and I'm not saying you're gonna become CEO of American Express, but you can can have a successful career in business and Manhattan College. Look, I'm Chair of the Board of Manhattan College. Now, my dad went to Manhattan College. So my father went to Manhattan College, I went to Manhattan College, and it's part of the squared legacy.

David Novak 51:14

You know, you and your wife, Tina, you have four daughters, how has been a girl dad made you better? At what you do at work,

Steve Squeri 51:23

I have to listen a lot more. You gotta listen. I mean, they have an opinion. And the opinion is legitimate, and the opinion is real. And they will make sure you listen. The other thing is they pay attention to detail, they pay attention to a lot of detail. And, you know, they're always taking care of me. I mean, that's the advantage of having daughters is they're always looking out for you and taking care of man. And my kids take care of me all the time. I mean, they're always looking out for me, Dad, you looks like you got circles under your eyes, Dad, you need to take care of that you need a little bit more rest, and so forth. So that has been great. Having said that, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child at any given moment.

David Novak 52:06

You know, I have one daughter, and she's the only child and you know, to think about having that multiplied by four. I mean, that's just a awesome, blessing. And last question for you. What's one piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to improve as a leader?

Steve Squeri 52:22

Feedback is really important. And you should always ask for, and listen to feedback. And then you should evaluate that feedback. And, you know, say, which is may or may not be me, but it may be the impression you're given off. You know, it's a feedback is a gift. I believe it truly is a gift. And I think you should seek out feedback. And then I think you should evaluate that feedback and go back to looking in that mirror. I think it's a two way street, I think you need to give yourself feedback. And you need to get feedback. But on the same token, you need to play it forward. And make sure you're providing feedback to your direct reports and others so that they can grow as leaders. Feedback is the way I think that we grow as leaders.

David Novak 53:01

Great advice, Steven, I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this conversation. You. You are the real deal of it. You are a guy who's made it happen, climbed the ladder exceeded expectations, not for your mom, not for your dad, and certainly not for yourself. But you've shown the world what you can do if you believe in yourself, and you work hard.

Steve Squeri 53:22

Thank you. I'm still my father, if he was alive would still be shocked by this because this is well beyond his expectations. I'll just tell you a quick story about I was probably about 12 years ago, we were sitting in the kitchen and my father would come over, you know, every other Saturday. And he'd make risotto. And we'd sit there and he'd say to me, Hey, did you ever think and I think I was like a Group President or something at the time? Do you ever think you'd be successful as you are? And I thought this was like one of these great father son moments. And before I got a chance to answer he said, I didn't. And I said what do you mean, you didn't but he goes, Why I didn't mean that in a bad way. I said, Well, how could I take that in a good way? He goes, Yeah, I guess you're right. But I'm honest with you, I didn't think he'd been as successful. So this would have been clearly well out of his realm of plausibility for his son. Well,

David Novak 54:14

well deserved. And it's great to see you spreading the values that you learned as a kid, and one of the greatest companies in the world. And what with one of the biggest brands so thank you very much. Thanks,

Steve Squeri 54:25

pal. It's always good spending time with you. Take care.

David Novak 54:41

You know, I've heard it said that amateurs want praise, but professionals want feedback. And you could really hear that mindset in the way Steve squared leads himself and his team. As he says, You've got to be willing to look yourself in the mirror and be honest about what's not ideal. If you're ready For a new level of growth and development, then make it a habit to seek out feedback and practice self reflection. I'm telling you, it is a game changer. This week, reach out to a colleague you trust and ask them to tell you what one of your blind spots is. Now, I gotta warn you, you're probably not going to like what you hear. But take that feedback, examine it, let it spark that all important process of self reflection. I guarantee it is going to help you become an even better leader. So do you want to know how leaders lead? What we learned today is the great leaders create a habit of self reflection. Coming up next on how leaders lead is Well, me. I have a brand new book called How leaders learn coming out on June 4. And so next week on the podcast, the CEO of David Novak leadership temperature will be interviewing me about the way I lead. Thanks again for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead where every Thursday you get to listen and while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world. I make it a point to give you something simple on each episode that you can apply to your business so that you will become the best leader you can be

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