[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_135":-5,"_136":-5,"_137":138,"_139":140,"_141":142},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1144/learn-to-fail-fast","id",1144,"title","Learn to fail fast","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.600\nWhat did you learn from it?\n\n2\n00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:04.720\nWell, I could just talk about my golf game a couple of weeks ago.\n\n3\n00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:06.520\nI played golf and I was ready to quit.\n\n4\n00:00:06.520 --> 00:00:11.050\nI didn't think I could possibly play that bad and there's nothing worse than\n\n5\n00:00:11.050 --> 00:00:11.640\nplaying\n\n6\n00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:16.400\nnot below your potential, but way, way, way below your potential.\n\n7\n00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:19.320\nYou can't even believe that this is you.\n\n8\n00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:22.360\nYou're having this out of body experience, which is terrible.\n\n9\n00:00:22.360 --> 00:00:27.270\nSo I just couldn't go to sleep that night without getting some input and some\n\n10\n00:00:27.270 --> 00:00:28.160\ncoaching.\n\n11\n00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:32.710\nSo I have like four golf coaches that I've used in my career that I really\n\n12\n00:00:32.710 --> 00:00:34.280\nrespect a lot.\n\n13\n00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:37.940\nAnd I sent them a picture of one of my swings on the range that said, \"Please\n\n14\n00:00:37.940 --> 00:00:38.560\nhelp me.\n\n15\n00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:40.080\nWhat am I doing wrong?\"\n\n16\n00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:43.450\nAnd they explained to me all of them, there was a commonality that came out,\n\n17\n00:00:43.450 --> 00:00:44.000\nwhich was\n\n18\n00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.280\nI wasn't turning properly.\n\n19\n00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:49.480\nI wasn't, you know, I was just going straight back, but not turning my\n\n20\n00:00:49.480 --> 00:00:50.560\nshoulders and really\n\n21\n00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.600\ngetting the leverage you need to hit the ball.\n\n22\n00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:58.520\nWell, the next day, my partner and I won the gross and then we also won the net\n\n23\n00:00:58.520 --> 00:00:59.640\nand actually\n\n24\n00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.640\ndid pretty well in the tournament, this two-day tournament.\n\n25\n00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.230\nBut it was a time when I failed fast, but really went to learning so that I\n\n26\n00:01:07.230 --> 00:01:08.480\ncould really\n\n27\n00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:10.120\nbecome a lot better.\n\n28\n00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:14.370\nAnd another personal story is I'm a grandfather, one of the great joys in my\n\n29\n00:01:14.370 --> 00:01:15.000\nlife.\n\n30\n00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:17.560\nAnd you know, I like to kid around.\n\n31\n00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:20.360\nEverybody that I know, I kid around and I tease.\n\n32\n00:01:20.360 --> 00:01:24.230\nSo I was teasing the granddaughters about who their boyfriends were and all\n\n33\n00:01:24.230 --> 00:01:24.760\nthis.\n\n34\n00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.800\nAnd they just absolutely hated it.\n\n35\n00:01:27.800 --> 00:01:30.040\nAnd they kind of just shut me out.\n\n36\n00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:32.680\nAnd I realized very quickly that was off limits.\n\n37\n00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:34.440\nThat's not something that I'm going to do anymore.\n\n38\n00:01:34.440 --> 00:01:36.440\nIn fact, they don't like teasing.\n\n39\n00:01:36.440 --> 00:01:37.880\nSo I never tease them anymore.\n\n40\n00:01:37.880 --> 00:01:41.500\nAnd as a result, I get a lot of great conversations and our relationship has\n\n41\n00:01:41.500 --> 00:01:42.520\ngotten better and\n\n42\n00:01:42.520 --> 00:01:43.520\nbetter.\n\n43\n00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:47.040\nBut I think the big learning there for me is you got to be empathetic.\n\n44\n00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.200\nYou got to really understand how you're coming off with other people.\n\n45\n00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:55.320\nAnd then if you fail in being relevant, if you fail at being the kind of person\n\n46\n00:01:55.320 --> 00:01:55.880\nyou want\n\n47\n00:01:55.880 --> 00:01:59.950\nto be in that person's life, you need to adjust in a hurry so that you can get\n\n48\n00:01:59.950 --> 00:02:00.680\nback into the\n\n49\n00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:01.680\ngame.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",211072,"end_time",331000,"keywords","failure, bouncing back, mental toughness, focus, golf","slug","learn-to-fail-fast","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","0100HD4bZfC1vn3y5b3wz8SU6mnD2wiS02SELlcuUdH02SA","mux_asset_id","01027u6tsPW01r2a02zFsOq1tkjryxqYCy2zqKYHBbYuGlw","leader_id",154,"episode_id",304,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:39:00.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1144/learn-to-fail-fast","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_98":99,"_100":101,"_102":103,"_25":104,"_105":106,"_60":107,"_57":108,"_109":110,"_67":111,"_39":112,"_113":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_114":115,"_86":116,"_44":117,"_118":119,"_120":121,"_46":-5,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_90":126,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":-5,"_54":-5,"_18":55,"_20":56,"_57":58,"_59":-5,"_60":58,"_61":-5,"_62":63,"_64":65,"_66":-5,"_67":-5,"_68":69,"_70":-5,"_71":-5,"_35":36,"_39":72,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_73":74,"_75":76,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":-5,"_82":-5,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_46":-5,"_87":88,"_89":-5,"_90":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","3 More Questions (Paul Sarvadi) with David Novak and Koula Callahan","3-more-questions-paul-sarvadi-with-david-novak-and-koula-callahan","summary","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.680\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead.\n\n2\n00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:09.140\nI'm Kula Kallahian here to bring you another edition of three more questions\n\n3\n00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:09.640\nwith David\n\n4\n00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:10.640\nNovak.\n\n5\n00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:12.280\nDavid, it's great to have you on the show.\n\n6\n00:00:12.280 --> 00:00:14.160\nIt's great to be with you too, Kula.\n\n7\n00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:18.190\nAnd I'm really looking forward to talking about our guests that we had last\n\n8\n00:00:18.190 --> 00:00:18.920\nweek, Paul\n\n9\n00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:22.480\nSorvati, the CEO of Insparity.\n\n10\n00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:26.300\nAnd the thing I love about Paul is he's obviously an accomplished business\n\n11\n00:00:26.300 --> 00:00:26.800\nperson.\n\n12\n00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:32.360\nHe built Insparity from the bottom up and now it's a huge corporation.\n\n13\n00:00:32.360 --> 00:00:37.150\nBut what I love about him is that he's done it by being a very people-focused\n\n14\n00:00:37.150 --> 00:00:38.000\nleader.\n\n15\n00:00:38.000 --> 00:00:42.400\nI mean, he has always put people first in his organization.\n\n16\n00:00:42.400 --> 00:00:44.520\nHe walks the talk on that.\n\n17\n00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:49.490\nAnd he's a big believer on making sure that you have diverse people in your\n\n18\n00:00:49.490 --> 00:00:50.560\norganization\n\n19\n00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:55.440\nand you create a culture where you all can benefit from each other.\n\n20\n00:00:55.440 --> 00:00:59.570\nAnd I think as a result of that, he'll be the first to tell you that their\n\n21\n00:00:59.570 --> 00:01:00.320\ncompany gets\n\n22\n00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.320\nresults year after year after year.\n\n23\n00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:07.390\nIn the episode, I mean, you can just tell by the way that Paul talks that he\n\n24\n00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:08.240\ndeeply cares\n\n25\n00:01:08.240 --> 00:01:10.720\nabout the people that he has the privilege of leading.\n\n26\n00:01:10.720 --> 00:01:12.720\nAnd I so enjoyed this episode.\n\n27\n00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:16.070\nSo for those of you listening to this three more questions episode, definitely\n\n28\n00:01:16.070 --> 00:01:16.440\ngo back\n\n29\n00:01:16.440 --> 00:01:21.250\nand give the Paul Sorvati full episode a listen because I guarantee you'll\n\n30\n00:01:21.250 --> 00:01:22.200\nlearn a lot and\n\n31\n00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.560\nbe inspired by how Paul cares for his people.\n\n32\n00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.530\nFor today, though, as usual, we're going to roll right into our three more\n\n33\n00:01:29.530 --> 00:01:30.200\nquestions\n\n34\n00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.760\nfor this edition of our show.\n\n35\n00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:33.920\nAre you ready, David?\n\n36\n00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:40.840\nLet's go cool.\n\n37\n00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:41.840\nQuestion number one.\n\n38\n00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:46.280\nA key tenant Paul operates under is the idea that you hire people for their\n\n39\n00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:46.920\ninput rather\n\n40\n00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:48.400\nthan their output.\n\n41\n00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.440\nHe says he never views people as a unit of production.\n\n42\n00:01:51.440 --> 00:01:55.800\nInstead, he sees every new hires input and point of view as a way to elevate\n\n43\n00:01:55.800 --> 00:01:57.160\nthe organization.\n\n44\n00:01:57.160 --> 00:02:01.790\nDavid, should every leader think in this way or are there some roles that you\n\n45\n00:02:01.790 --> 00:02:02.600\nhave to hire\n\n46\n00:02:02.600 --> 00:02:06.720\nstrictly based on a person's potential output?\n\n47\n00:02:06.720 --> 00:02:07.720\nWell, cool.\n\n48\n00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:12.740\nI have a very difficult time differentiating the two because I think you've got\n\n49\n00:02:12.740 --> 00:02:13.280\nto have\n\n50\n00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:17.640\ninput to be able to deliver an output, you know, to be able to deliver the\n\n51\n00:02:17.640 --> 00:02:18.320\nresults.\n\n52\n00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:20.480\nThat you're really looking for.\n\n53\n00:02:20.480 --> 00:02:24.770\nYou know, the way how I look at it is that, you know, you want to have an\n\n54\n00:02:24.770 --> 00:02:25.720\norganization\n\n55\n00:02:25.720 --> 00:02:27.880\nwhere everyone counts.\n\n56\n00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:30.040\nYou just don't want to see them as a number.\n\n57\n00:02:30.040 --> 00:02:33.800\nYou just don't want to see them as someone that's going to deliver a certain\n\n58\n00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:34.520\nproduct.\n\n59\n00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:39.210\nYou want to see them as a person that can give you input, give the team input\n\n60\n00:02:39.210 --> 00:02:39.840\nand take\n\n61\n00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:42.160\nyour business to a whole other level.\n\n62\n00:02:42.160 --> 00:02:45.400\nAnd I think that's why he thinks that's how you elevate the organization.\n\n63\n00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:46.920\nI agree with him.\n\n64\n00:02:46.920 --> 00:02:49.480\nBut I try to keep it very, very simple.\n\n65\n00:02:49.480 --> 00:02:55.560\nYou want an organization and a culture where everyone counts and you value who\n\n66\n00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:56.520\nthey are,\n\n67\n00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.720\nwhat they bring to the party, which can be your input.\n\n68\n00:02:59.720 --> 00:03:04.260\nAnd then together, you can create the right results that you're really looking\n\n69\n00:03:04.260 --> 00:03:04.720\nfor, which\n\n70\n00:03:04.720 --> 00:03:09.880\nis the output that everybody wants as an organization or a team.\n\n71\n00:03:09.880 --> 00:03:11.440\nQuestion number two.\n\n72\n00:03:11.440 --> 00:03:15.700\nPaul shares that leaders learn more from crashing and burning than they do from\n\n73\n00:03:15.700 --> 00:03:16.520\nexperiencing\n\n74\n00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:17.800\nsuccess.\n\n75\n00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:22.190\nYou ask him in the episode to share a story about a time where he failed fast,\n\n76\n00:03:22.190 --> 00:03:22.560\na term\n\n77\n00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.320\nthat he actually reframed as learning fast.\n\n78\n00:03:26.320 --> 00:03:30.160\nDavid, what's the story from your life where you failed fast and what did you\n\n79\n00:03:30.160 --> 00:03:30.720\nlearn from\n\n80\n00:03:30.720 --> 00:03:31.720\nit?\n\n81\n00:03:31.720 --> 00:03:33.680\nWell, I could just talk about my golf game.\n\n82\n00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.480\nA couple of weeks ago, I played golf and I was ready to quit.\n\n83\n00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:41.010\nI didn't think I could possibly play that bad and there's nothing worse than\n\n84\n00:03:41.010 --> 00:03:41.600\nplaying\n\n85\n00:03:41.600 --> 00:03:46.360\nnot below your potential, but way, way, way below your potential.\n\n86\n00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:49.280\nYou can't even believe that this is you.\n\n87\n00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:52.320\nYou're having this out of body experience, which is terrible.\n\n88\n00:03:52.320 --> 00:03:57.200\nSo I just couldn't go to sleep that night without getting some input and some\n\n89\n00:03:57.200 --> 00:03:58.120\ncoaching.\n\n90\n00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:03.610\nSo I have four golf coaches that I've used in my career that I really respect a\n\n91\n00:04:03.610 --> 00:04:04.240\nlot.\n\n92\n00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:07.800\nAnd I sent them a picture of one of my swings on the range that said, \"Please\n\n93\n00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:08.480\nhelp me.\n\n94\n00:04:08.480 --> 00:04:10.040\nWhat am I doing wrong?\"\n\n95\n00:04:10.040 --> 00:04:13.410\nAnd they explained to me all of them, there was a commonality that came out,\n\n96\n00:04:13.410 --> 00:04:14.000\nwhich was,\n\n97\n00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:15.200\nI wasn't turning properly.\n\n98\n00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:19.710\nI wasn't, I was just going straight back, but not turning my shoulders and\n\n99\n00:04:19.710 --> 00:04:20.760\nreally getting\n\n100\n00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:22.520\nthe leverage you need to hit the ball.\n\n101\n00:04:22.520 --> 00:04:28.450\nWell, the next day, my partner and I won the gross and then we also won the net\n\n102\n00:04:28.450 --> 00:04:29.600\nand actually\n\n103\n00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.600\ndid pretty well in the tournament, this two-day tournament.\n\n104\n00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:37.660\nBut it was a time when I failed fast, but really went to learning so that I\n\n105\n00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:38.480\ncould really\n\n106\n00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:40.080\nbecome a lot better.\n\n107\n00:04:40.080 --> 00:04:44.960\nAnother personal story is I'm a grandfather, one of the great joys of my life.\n\n108\n00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:47.520\nAnd I like to kid around.\n\n109\n00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:50.320\nEverybody that I know, I kid around and I tease.\n\n110\n00:04:50.320 --> 00:04:54.400\nSo I was teasing the granddaughters about who their boyfriends were and all\n\n111\n00:04:54.400 --> 00:04:54.960\nthis and\n\n112\n00:04:54.960 --> 00:04:57.720\nthey just absolutely hated it.\n\n113\n00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:00.000\nAnd they kind of just shut me out.\n\n114\n00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.600\nAnd I realized very quickly that was off limits.\n\n115\n00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:04.400\nThat's not something that I'm going to do anymore.\n\n116\n00:05:04.400 --> 00:05:06.360\nIn fact, they don't like teasing.\n\n117\n00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:07.800\nSo I never tease them anymore.\n\n118\n00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:11.590\nAnd as a result, I get a lot of great conversations and our relationship has\n\n119\n00:05:11.590 --> 00:05:12.520\ngotten better and\n\n120\n00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:13.520\nbetter.\n\n121\n00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:16.960\nBut I think the big learning there for me is you got to be empathetic.\n\n122\n00:05:16.960 --> 00:05:20.120\nYou got to really understand how you're coming off with other people.\n\n123\n00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:25.240\nAnd then if you fail in being relevant, if you fail at being the kind of person\n\n124\n00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:25.800\nyou want\n\n125\n00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:29.870\nto be in that person's life, you need to adjust in a hurry so that you can get\n\n126\n00:05:29.870 --> 00:05:30.680\nback into the\n\n127\n00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:31.680\ngame.\n\n128\n00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.380\nI love that you shared during your horrible golf day that you pretty\n\n129\n00:05:35.380 --> 00:05:36.440\nimmediately reached\n\n130\n00:05:36.440 --> 00:05:37.840\nout for some coaching.\n\n131\n00:05:37.840 --> 00:05:42.750\nI think when failure gets the best of us, it's when we aren't open about it and\n\n132\n00:05:42.750 --> 00:05:44.000\nwe fail\n\n133\n00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:45.480\nin isolation.\n\n134\n00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:49.320\nSo I think one of the great lessons for me is when you make a mistake and when\n\n135\n00:05:49.320 --> 00:05:49.680\nyou do\n\n136\n00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:54.040\nfail, get coaching and feedback quickly so that you can course correct and get\n\n137\n00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:54.360\nback\n\n138\n00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:58.080\non your feet and not make those same mistakes again.\n\n139\n00:05:58.080 --> 00:06:02.120\nI couldn't agree with you more obviously, Kula, but I think that one of the\n\n140\n00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:02.920\nthings that get\n\n141\n00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:08.480\nin the way of all of us doing this when we fail is pride.\n\n142\n00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.110\nWe don't really want to admit to ourselves that we screwed up and we don't want\n\n143\n00:06:12.110 --> 00:06:12.480\nto admit\n\n144\n00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.240\nto anybody else that we screwed up.\n\n145\n00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:20.420\nAnd I think that keeps us a lot of time from adjusting and tailoring whatever\n\n146\n00:06:20.420 --> 00:06:21.080\nwe did to\n\n147\n00:06:21.080 --> 00:06:25.480\nfail in the first place so that we can move towards more of a success model.\n\n148\n00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.140\nSo you got to kind of put your pride in the drawer, see the world the way out\n\n149\n00:06:29.140 --> 00:06:29.720\nreally is\n\n150\n00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:34.040\nnot the way you want it to be and then adjust and then move on.\n\n151\n00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:36.480\nThe other thing is don't dwell in failure.\n\n152\n00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:41.450\nJust understand why you failed, get up on your feet again and do the right\n\n153\n00:06:41.450 --> 00:06:42.080\nthing and\n\n154\n00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:46.350\ndo whatever you can to not fail again and just keep working at it because that\n\n155\n00:06:46.350 --> 00:06:46.840\n's just\n\n156\n00:06:46.840 --> 00:06:48.640\npart of life.\n\n157\n00:06:48.640 --> 00:06:49.640\nQuestion number three.\n\n158\n00:06:49.640 --> 00:06:53.280\nPaul's new book is all about making people's differences matter.\n\n159\n00:06:53.280 --> 00:06:57.240\nIn fact, it's actually called making differences work.\n\n160\n00:06:57.240 --> 00:07:01.700\nAnd over the past several years, Paul's been laser focused on making DE&I part\n\n161\n00:07:01.700 --> 00:07:02.200\nof his\n\n162\n00:07:02.200 --> 00:07:07.070\ncompany's DNA as opposed to just a siloed program that checks a box that every\n\n163\n00:07:07.070 --> 00:07:08.040\norganization\n\n164\n00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:09.280\nhas to check.\n\n165\n00:07:09.280 --> 00:07:14.840\nHe describes his approach to DE&I as one that's values based, culture driven\n\n166\n00:07:14.840 --> 00:07:16.440\nand people centered.\n\n167\n00:07:16.440 --> 00:07:21.090\nDavid, what's your take on how companies today should incorporate DE&I into\n\n168\n00:07:21.090 --> 00:07:23.480\ntheir organizations?\n\n169\n00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.040\nI think DE&I should just be a way of doing business.\n\n170\n00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.720\nIt shouldn't be something where you have a department or a group working on it.\n\n171\n00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.850\nYou try to build a culture where everyone counts, a culture where you believe\n\n172\n00:07:35.850 --> 00:07:36.360\nin every\n\n173\n00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.920\nperson in the skills that they bring to the party.\n\n174\n00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:43.780\nA culture which knows that if the more different ideas, the more different\n\n175\n00:07:43.780 --> 00:07:44.760\nperspectives, the\n\n176\n00:07:44.760 --> 00:07:49.210\nmore different people you have on the team means you're going to get the best\n\n177\n00:07:49.210 --> 00:07:49.880\npossible\n\n178\n00:07:49.880 --> 00:07:52.720\ndecision going forward.\n\n179\n00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.000\nBut it's the way how you do business.\n\n180\n00:07:55.000 --> 00:07:58.720\nAnd one thing that I think that every leader should really be aware of is\n\n181\n00:07:58.720 --> 00:07:59.520\ntrying to build\n\n182\n00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:03.840\ndiversity and diverse points of use on your team.\n\n183\n00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:09.150\nMy know-how on what it meant to be a black person at young brands moved up\n\n184\n00:08:09.150 --> 00:08:10.360\nexponentially\n\n185\n00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:14.600\nwhen I had all one Lewis as my chief operating officer.\n\n186\n00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:19.980\nAll one was black and the other thing that I learned is that once he got in\n\n187\n00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:21.000\nthat role,\n\n188\n00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:24.990\nhe found all kinds of people in the organization that had all kinds of\n\n189\n00:08:24.990 --> 00:08:26.240\npotential and moved\n\n190\n00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:27.720\nthem up.\n\n191\n00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.640\nAnd that was how we really improved diversity.\n\n192\n00:08:30.640 --> 00:08:35.020\nSo it's really hard to improve diversity and really get that balance\n\n193\n00:08:35.020 --> 00:08:36.040\nperspective if\n\n194\n00:08:36.040 --> 00:08:39.760\nyou don't have people on your team that can help really drive it.\n\n195\n00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:42.520\nYou know, I also had Anne Byerlin on our team.\n\n196\n00:08:42.520 --> 00:08:44.800\nShe was our chief people officer.\n\n197\n00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:49.150\nAnd she was really passionate about creating a work environment that was good\n\n198\n00:08:49.150 --> 00:08:49.880\nfor working\n\n199\n00:08:49.880 --> 00:08:54.240\nmoms and dads who had to really take care of their kids by themselves.\n\n200\n00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.740\nAnd she was the one that really put all the work in making sure that we had day\n\n201\n00:08:58.740 --> 00:08:59.400\ncare centers\n\n202\n00:08:59.400 --> 00:09:02.160\nat all of our restaurant support centers.\n\n203\n00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:06.190\nAnd you know, that wouldn't happen without her perspective of being a working\n\n204\n00:09:06.190 --> 00:09:06.640\nmom and\n\n205\n00:09:06.640 --> 00:09:08.440\nthe difficulty that's there.\n\n206\n00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:13.960\nSo you know, I think, you know, when you get those different views on your team\n\n207\n00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:14.480\n, you end\n\n208\n00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.000\nup in a different and better place.\n\n209\n00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:19.240\nAnd that's really the key.\n\n210\n00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:23.960\nYou don't want to chase numbers and statistics that we've got.\n\n211\n00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:27.210\nYou know, those are important to look at just to give you a sense of what your\n\n212\n00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:27.920\norganization\n\n213\n00:09:27.920 --> 00:09:29.280\nlooks like.\n\n214\n00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:32.920\nBut that's not really what it's all about.\n\n215\n00:09:32.920 --> 00:09:38.140\nWhat it's all about is getting there the right way by really seeking that\n\n216\n00:09:38.140 --> 00:09:39.560\ndiverse perspective\n\n217\n00:09:39.560 --> 00:09:42.320\nthat's going to get you the best possible answer.\n\n218\n00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:47.260\nWell, David, those two stories you just shared echo Paul's sentiment around DE&\n\n219\n00:09:47.260 --> 00:09:47.640\nI.\n\n220\n00:09:47.640 --> 00:09:52.860\nAnd it's that just make it part of your organization as opposed to having some\n\n221\n00:09:52.860 --> 00:09:54.000\nprogram that you\n\n222\n00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:58.200\nkind of force people to go through, build it into the DNA of your culture.\n\n223\n00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:02.530\nAnd like you said, your organization will always end up better and stronger and\n\n224\n00:10:02.530 --> 00:10:02.840\nmore\n\n225\n00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:04.720\ncohesive because of it.\n\n226\n00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.700\nAnd that's why the number one behavior that we had in our how we work together\n\n227\n00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:08.360\nprinciples\n\n228\n00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:12.840\nand how we win together principles is we believe in all people.\n\n229\n00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:14.320\nThat was principle number one.\n\n230\n00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.240\nThat was behavior number one.\n\n231\n00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.730\nWe wanted everybody in our organization to believe in the potential and the\n\n232\n00:10:20.730 --> 00:10:21.520\ncapability\n\n233\n00:10:21.520 --> 00:10:33.000\nof every person, no matter what color or gender they may happen to be.\n\n234\n00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.040\nThanks so much, David.\n\n235\n00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:37.890\nAnd thank you to our listeners for tuning in to another episode of HowlLayers\n\n236\n00:10:37.890 --> 00:10:38.400\nLead.\n\n237\n00:10:38.400 --> 00:10:41.720\nWe're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better\n\n238\n00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:42.400\nleaders.\n\n239\n00:10:42.400 --> 00:10:45.730\nAnd if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you\n\n240\n00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:46.040\nbuild\n\n241\n00:10:46.040 --> 00:10:48.680\nthe confidence you need to lead well.\n\n242\n00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:53.770\nAnd be sure to tune in Thursday for my conversation with Dr. Mark Esper, the\n\n243\n00:10:53.770 --> 00:10:55.160\nformer United States\n\n244\n00:10:55.160 --> 00:10:57.640\nSecretary of Defense.\n\n245\n00:10:57.640 --> 00:11:01.660\nAnd he's got a great perspective on a number of issues that you're going to\n\n246\n00:11:01.660 --> 00:11:02.480\nlove hearing.\n\n247\n00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:12.480\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","

Koula Callahan 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead. I'm cooler Callahan here to bring you another edition of three more questions with David Novak. David, it's great to have you on the show.

David Novak 0:12

It's great to be with you too cool. And I'm really looking forward to talking about our guests that we had last week, Paul surviving the CEO Insperity. And the thing I love about Paul is he's obviously an accomplished business person, he built Insperity from the bottom up, and now it's a huge corporation. But what I love about him is that he's done it by being a very people focus leader. I mean, he has always put people first in his organization. He walks the talk on that. And he's a big believer on on making sure that you have diverse people in your organization, and you create a culture where you all can benefit from each other. And I think as a result of that, he'll be the first to tell you that their company gets results year after year after year.

Koula Callahan 1:02

And the episode, I mean, you can just tell, by the way that Paul talks that he deeply cares about the people that he has the privilege of leading, and I so enjoyed this episode. So for those of you listening to this three more questions episode, definitely go back and give the Pulsar body full episode a listen, because I guarantee you'll learn a lot and be inspired by how Paul cares for his people. For today, though, as usual, we're going to roll right into our three more questions for this edition of our show. Are you ready, David?

David Novak 1:33

Let's go cool.

Koula Callahan 1:40

Question number one, a key tenant Paul operates under is the idea that you hire people for their input rather than their output. He says he never views people as a unit of production. Instead, he sees every new hires input and point of view as a way to elevate the organization. David, should every leader think in this way, or are there some roles that you have to hire strictly based on a person's potential output,

David Novak 2:06

we'll call it, I have a very difficult time differentiating the two. Because I think you've got to have input to be able to deliver an output, you know, to be able to deliver the results that you're really looking for, you know, the way I look at it is that you want to have an organization where everyone counts, you just don't want to see them as a number, you just don't want to see them as someone that's going to deliver a certain product, you want to see them as a person that can give you input, give the team and put and take your business to a whole nother level. And I think that's why he thinks that's how you elevate the organization. I agree with him. But I tried to keep it very, very simple. You want an organization and a culture where everyone counts, and you value who they are, what they bring to the party, which can be your input. And then together, you can create the right results that you're really looking for, which is the output that everybody wants is as an organization or a team.

Koula Callahan 3:09

Question number two, Paul share is that leaders learn more from crashing and burning than they do from experiencing success. You asked him in the episode to share a story about a time where he failed fast, a term that he actually reframed as learning fast. David, what's the story from your life where you failed fast? And what did you learn from it?

David Novak 3:31

Well, I could just talk about my golf game a couple of weeks ago, I play golf, and I was ready to quit, I didn't think I could possibly play that bad. And there's nothing worse than playing not below your potential. But way, way, way below your potential. You can't even believe that this is this is you, you're having this out of body experience, which is terrible. So, you know, I just couldn't go to sleep that night without getting some input and some coaching you so I have like four golf coaches that I've used in my career that I really respect a lot. And I sent them a picture of one of my swings on the range and said, Please help me what am I doing wrong? And they explained to me all of them, there was a commonality that came out, which was I wasn't turning properly. I wasn't, you know, I was just going straight back but not turning my shoulders and really getting the leverage you need to hit the ball. Well, the next day, my partner and I won the gross. And then we also won the net and actually did pretty well in the tournament, this two day tournament. But it was a time when I failed fast but really went to learning so that I could, could really become a lot better. And another personal story is I'm a grandfather, one of the great joys in my life. And you know, I like to kid around everybody that I know I kid around and I tease so I was teasing the granddaughters about who their boyfriends were and all this and they just absolutely hated it. And they kind of just shut me out and I realized very quickly, that was off limits, that's not something that I'm going to do anymore. In fact, they don't like teasing. So I never tease them anymore. And as a result, I get a lot of great conversations and our relationship has gotten better and better. But I think their big learning there for me is you got to be empathetic, you got to really understand how you're coming off with other people. And then if you fail, in being relevant, if you fail at being the kind of person you want to be in that person's life, you need to adjust in a hurry so that you can get back into the game.

Koula Callahan 5:31

I love that you shared during your horrible golf day that you pretty immediately reached out for some coaching, I think when failure gets the best of us, it's when we aren't open about it. And we fail in isolation. So I think one of the great lessons for me is when you make a mistake, and when you do fail, get coaching and feedback quickly, so that you can course correct and get back on your feet and not make those same mistakes. Again,

David Novak 5:57

I couldn't agree with you more obviously, go a little bit. I think that one of the things that get in the way of all of us doing this, when we fail, is pride, we don't really want to admit to ourselves that we screwed up. And we don't want to admit it, anybody else that we screwed up. And I think that keeps us a lot of time from adjusting and tailoring whatever we did to fail in the first place. So that we can move towards more of a success model. So you got to kind of put your pride in the drawer, see the world the way out really is not the way you want it to be. And then adjust and then move on. The other thing is don't dwell on failure. Just understand why you failed. Get up on your feet again, and and do the right thing and do whatever you can to not fail again, and just keep working at it because that's just part of life.

Koula Callahan 6:48

Question number three, Paul's new book is all about making people's differences matter. In fact, it's actually called making differences work. And over the past several years, Paul has been laser focused on making DNI part of his company's DNA, as opposed to just a siloed program that checks a box that every organization has to check. He describes his approach to DNI as one that's values based, culture driven. And people centered. David, what's your take on how companies today should incorporate DNI into their organizations?

David Novak 7:23

I think DNI should just be a way of doing business. It shouldn't be something where you have a department or a group working on it, you try to build a culture where everyone counts a culture where you believe in every person in the skills that they bring to the party, a culture, which knows that if the more different ideas, the more different perspectives, the more different people you have on the team means you're going to get the best possible decision going forward. But it's the way how you do business. And one thing that I think that every leader should really be aware of is trying to build diversity and diverse points of views on your team. My know how on what it meant to be a black person at yum brands moved up exponentially when I had all when Louis, as my Chief Operating Officer, all one was black. And the other thing that I learned is that once he got in that role, he found all kinds of people in the organization that had all kinds of potential and move them up. And that was how we really improve diversity. So it's really hard to improve diversity, and really get that balance perspective, if you don't have people on your team that can help really drive it. You know, I also had an Byron line on our team, she was our chief people officer. And you know, she was really passionate about creating a work environment that was good for working moms and dads who who had to really take care of their kids by themselves. And she was the one that really put all the work in making sure that we had daycare centers at all of our restaurants support centers. And, you know, that wouldn't happen without her perspective of being a working mom and the difficulty that's there. So, you know, I think, you know, when you get those different views on your team, you end up in a different and better place, and that that's really the key. You don't you don't want to chase numbers and statistics that we've got this, you know, those are important to look at, just to give you a sense of what your organization looks like. But that's not really what it's all about what it's all about, is getting there the right way, by really seeking that diverse perspective, that's gonna get you the best possible answer.

Koula Callahan 9:42

Well, David, those two stories you just shared, Echo Paul's sentiment around DNI and it's that just make it part of your organization as opposed to having some program that you kind of force people to go through, build it into the DNA of your culture and like you said, your organism He will always end up better and stronger and more cohesive because of it.

David Novak 10:04

And that's why the number one behavior that we had in our how we work together principles and how we win together principles is we believe in all people. That was principle number one, that was behavior. Number one, we, we wanted everybody in our organization to believe in the potential and the capability of every person, no matter what color or gender they may have.

Koula Callahan 10:32

Thanks so much, David. And thank you to our listeners for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead well,

David Novak 10:48

and be sure to tune in Thursday for my conversation with Dr. Mark Esper, the former United States Secretary of Defense, and he's got a great perspective on a number of issues that you're going to love hearing

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