[{"_1":2,"_3":-5,"_4":-5},"loaderData",{"_5":6,"_7":8},"actionData","errors","root",{"_135":-5,"_136":-5,"_137":138,"_139":140,"_141":142},"routes/clips.$id.$slug",{"_9":10,"_11":12},"clip",{"_13":14,"_15":16,"_17":-5,"_18":19,"_20":-5,"_21":22,"_23":24,"_25":26,"_27":28,"_29":30,"_31":32,"_33":34,"_35":36,"_37":38,"_39":40,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_44":45,"_46":-5,"_47":48,"_49":50,"_51":-5},"canonicalUrl","https://howleaderslead.com/clips/1151/what-to-do-when-you-lose-your-passion","id",1151,"title","What to do when you lose your passion","subtitle","transcript","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.160\nWhen you lose your passion for a job, it's usually because you're not growing\n\n2\n00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:06.320\nor you're\n\n3\n00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.880\nnot fundamentally aligned with the culture that exists in that job.\n\n4\n00:00:10.880 --> 00:00:15.920\nOr you don't get along that well with the person that you're working for.\n\n5\n00:00:15.920 --> 00:00:21.540\nSo when that happens, I think you really have to say to yourself, \"Can I change\n\n6\n00:00:21.540 --> 00:00:22.280\nwhere I'm\n\n7\n00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:25.560\nat enough to where I can get the passion back?\"\n\n8\n00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:27.040\nThat's the first question.\n\n9\n00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:31.360\nCan I grow the way I want to grow by staying in that job?\n\n10\n00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:33.520\nThat's the second question.\n\n11\n00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:38.620\nIf the answer's no to both of those questions, I think it's time to seek the\n\n12\n00:00:38.620 --> 00:00:39.680\nopportunity\n\n13\n00:00:39.680 --> 00:00:44.230\nthat's going to unlock more growth opportunities, get your passion back and\n\n14\n00:00:44.230 --> 00:00:45.400\nhelp you be excited\n\n15\n00:00:45.400 --> 00:00:47.800\nabout going to work every day.\n\n16\n00:00:47.800 --> 00:00:52.840\nI really think passion at work is just an incredible thing to have.\n\n17\n00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:57.840\nI love Warren Buffett's line, that he tap dances to work.\n\n18\n00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:02.400\nI love the fact that when people say you love what you do, you never have to\n\n19\n00:01:02.400 --> 00:01:03.040\nwork another\n\n20\n00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:04.040\nday in your life.\n\n21\n00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:06.400\nI believe in all of that.\n\n22\n00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:11.540\nI wouldn't spend a lot of time if I could help it, working someplace that's sa\n\n23\n00:01:11.540 --> 00:01:12.000\npping\n\n24\n00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:15.720\nmy energy every day and not getting me fired up to make things happen.\n","pretty_transcript","start_time",264478,"end_time",339685,"keywords","passion, loving your job, happiness, career change, unhappy, stressed","slug","what-to-do-when-you-lose-your-passion","origin","cms","mux_playback_id","BOR02NTrnaxVQhw00zS5okYNeSl9CN71V6jiifmr5eKds","mux_asset_id","a1UVJAZYJHV7eNmGEmzzYE00GcVkMWER02nKpOdbxVtqQ","leader_id",154,"episode_id",300,"updated_at","2025-02-26T19:38:59.000000Z","meta_title","meta_description","og_image_media_id","web_url","https://www.howleaderslead.com/clips/1151/what-to-do-when-you-lose-your-passion","og_image_url","leader",{"_13":36,"_98":99,"_100":101,"_102":103,"_25":104,"_105":106,"_60":107,"_57":108,"_109":110,"_67":111,"_39":112,"_113":-5,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_114":115,"_86":116,"_44":117,"_118":119,"_120":121,"_46":-5,"_122":123,"_124":125,"_90":126,"_51":-5},"episode",{"_13":38,"_15":52,"_27":53,"_17":-5,"_54":-5,"_18":55,"_20":56,"_57":58,"_59":-5,"_60":58,"_61":-5,"_62":63,"_64":65,"_66":-5,"_67":-5,"_68":69,"_70":-5,"_71":-5,"_35":36,"_39":72,"_41":-5,"_42":-5,"_43":-5,"_73":74,"_75":76,"_77":78,"_79":80,"_81":-5,"_82":-5,"_83":84,"_85":-5,"_86":-5,"_46":-5,"_87":88,"_89":-5,"_90":-5,"_51":-5},"og_image_media","3 More Questions (Bill George) with David Novak and Koula Callahan","3-more-questions-bill-george-with-david-novak-and-koula-callahan","summary","WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.760\nWelcome to How Leaders Lead. I'm Kula Callahan. Here to bring you another\n\n2\n00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:08.560\nedition of three\n\n3\n00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:12.080\nmore questions with David Novak. David, it's great to see you again. How are\n\n4\n00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:12.880\nyou today?\n\n5\n00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.720\nI'm doing fantastic. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today as we\n\n6\n00:00:16.720 --> 00:00:17.400\ntake a deeper\n\n7\n00:00:17.400 --> 00:00:23.260\ndive into the podcast we did with Bill George, the former chairman and CEO of\n\n8\n00:00:23.260 --> 00:00:24.680\nMedtronic,\n\n9\n00:00:24.680 --> 00:00:27.800\nand one of the great CEOs of our era.\n\n10\n00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:32.280\nThis conversation is fascinating. You can tell that Bill George is just an\n\n11\n00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:33.160\nunbelievably\n\n12\n00:00:33.160 --> 00:00:38.830\nsmart leader. He also leads with a lot of heart. And I always love learning\n\n13\n00:00:38.830 --> 00:00:39.440\nfrom leaders\n\n14\n00:00:39.440 --> 00:00:44.760\nwho pair their intellect and skill with true passion for what they do and a\n\n15\n00:00:44.760 --> 00:00:46.160\nreal recognition\n\n16\n00:00:46.160 --> 00:00:50.940\nof their unique gifts that they can bring the world and how they can bake that\n\n17\n00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:51.480\ninto their\n\n18\n00:00:51.480 --> 00:00:53.040\nleadership style.\n\n19\n00:00:53.040 --> 00:00:57.690\nWell, Bill definitely does that because you're right. He is a very, very smart\n\n20\n00:00:57.690 --> 00:00:58.600\nguy. He knows\n\n21\n00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:04.480\nhis business cold. He's constantly learning. He's teaching at Harvard now. He\n\n22\n00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.080\nreally is\n\n23\n00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:09.050\npassionate about making the world a better place by developing better leaders.\n\n24\n00:01:09.050 --> 00:01:09.280\nSo we\n\n25\n00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:14.800\nhad a real common bond and a shared vision. And it's really terrific to learn\n\n26\n00:01:14.800 --> 00:01:15.800\nfrom somebody\n\n27\n00:01:15.800 --> 00:01:19.640\nlike Bill who's done so much and been so successful throughout his career.\n\n28\n00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.220\nWell, we're going to get your take on some of the topics you chatted with Bill\n\n29\n00:01:23.220 --> 00:01:23.800\nabout.\n\n30\n00:01:23.800 --> 00:01:34.320\nSo without further ado, let's roll into our first question of today's episode.\n\n31\n00:01:34.320 --> 00:01:38.590\nQuestion number one, Bill says that if a leader doesn't know what's going on on\n\n32\n00:01:38.590 --> 00:01:39.200\nthe front\n\n33\n00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:44.390\nlines of their business, they don't know what's going on. Period. David, I know\n\n34\n00:01:44.390 --> 00:01:44.960\nyou shared\n\n35\n00:01:44.960 --> 00:01:49.300\nthis same approach and I'd love for you to help leaders listening understand\n\n36\n00:01:49.300 --> 00:01:49.880\nhow they\n\n37\n00:01:49.880 --> 00:01:54.670\ncan eliminate the layers that build up between them and the people who work on\n\n38\n00:01:54.670 --> 00:01:55.360\nthe front\n\n39\n00:01:55.360 --> 00:01:57.240\nlines of their business.\n\n40\n00:01:57.240 --> 00:02:01.720\nThe first thing is just to recognize and value what the front line can bring to\n\n41\n00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:02.000\nthe\n\n42\n00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:08.940\nparty. The front line is closest to operations. It's closest to the customer\n\n43\n00:02:08.940 --> 00:02:10.280\nand they really\n\n44\n00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:15.830\nknow what's going on. And if you're a leader and you really want to know what's\n\n45\n00:02:15.830 --> 00:02:16.320\ngoing\n\n46\n00:02:16.320 --> 00:02:21.550\non, you need to be out on the front lines, talking to your team members and\n\n47\n00:02:21.550 --> 00:02:22.400\nfinding out\n\n48\n00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:28.500\nwhat they're learning. And the biggest thing that I think you can do is just\n\n49\n00:02:28.500 --> 00:02:28.880\nget out of\n\n50\n00:02:28.880 --> 00:02:34.270\nthe corner office or get out of whatever office you're in and get out there and\n\n51\n00:02:34.270 --> 00:02:34.960\ntalk to the\n\n52\n00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:40.650\npeople who are really making it happen and ask them what's working, what's not,\n\n53\n00:02:40.650 --> 00:02:40.840\nwhat\n\n54\n00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:45.140\nthey would do if they were you. And you will get amazing learning that will\n\n55\n00:02:45.140 --> 00:02:45.920\nhelp you grow\n\n56\n00:02:45.920 --> 00:02:46.920\nthe business.\n\n57\n00:02:46.920 --> 00:02:50.460\nWell, you know, your episode with Jim Fish, who's the CEO of Waste Management\n\n58\n00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:51.080\ntalks about\n\n59\n00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:56.310\nthis as well. He actually gets in the waste management trucks with drivers\n\n60\n00:02:56.310 --> 00:02:57.120\nabout once\n\n61\n00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:01.400\na month, even still to this day. And it's just such a testament to his\n\n62\n00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:02.240\ncommitment to\n\n63\n00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:06.380\nalways having a pulse on what his frontline employees are dealing with and how\n\n64\n00:03:06.380 --> 00:03:06.880\nthey can\n\n65\n00:03:06.880 --> 00:03:08.800\ncontinue to serve customers well.\n\n66\n00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:13.280\nYeah, I think one good point about that is that, you know, one way to stay in\n\n67\n00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:13.880\ntouch with\n\n68\n00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:18.800\nthe front line is actually do the front line jobs. You know, make sure you as a\n\n69\n00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:19.360\nleader,\n\n70\n00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:24.600\nno matter how high up you might be, you go do the jobs. You know, when I was a\n\n71\n00:03:24.600 --> 00:03:25.200\nKFC, I\n\n72\n00:03:25.200 --> 00:03:29.280\nbred the chicken, you know, when I was a pizza hut, you know, I put the pepper\n\n73\n00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:29.920\nonis on the\n\n74\n00:03:29.920 --> 00:03:34.470\npizza and did the pan pizza dough fresh every day, you know, I, and when I was\n\n75\n00:03:34.470 --> 00:03:35.360\nat Taco Bell,\n\n76\n00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:40.050\nI learned how to be a stuffer, you know, so, you know, you learn what the\n\n77\n00:03:40.050 --> 00:03:41.000\nfrontline goes\n\n78\n00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:47.600\nthrough. And that gives you a tremendous empathy for the challenge of the job\n\n79\n00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:48.080\nand the\n\n80\n00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:53.610\nresponsibility you have to make sure you help them do their job by eliminating\n\n81\n00:03:53.610 --> 00:03:54.640\nall the barriers\n\n82\n00:03:54.640 --> 00:03:59.120\nand obstacles that get in the way of them serving customers.\n\n83\n00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:03.490\nNumber two, after a number of years working at Honeywell, it became clear to\n\n84\n00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:04.000\nBill that\n\n85\n00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:08.410\nhe had lost his passion for the job and needed to make a change for leaders out\n\n86\n00:04:08.410 --> 00:04:09.040\nthere who\n\n87\n00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:14.090\nmight be in a similar position, knowing that maybe they aren't utilizing their\n\n88\n00:04:14.090 --> 00:04:14.760\nskills in\n\n89\n00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:19.190\nthe way that they want to anymore. What do you do when you lose passion for\n\n90\n00:04:19.190 --> 00:04:20.400\nyour job and\n\n91\n00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:24.880\nyou're thinking about making a change? How do you come to that decision?\n\n92\n00:04:24.880 --> 00:04:29.870\nWhen you lose your passion for a job, it's usually because you're not growing\n\n93\n00:04:29.870 --> 00:04:30.240\nor you're\n\n94\n00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.520\nnot fundamentally aligned with the culture that exists in that job or you don't\n\n95\n00:04:35.520 --> 00:04:36.200\nget along\n\n96\n00:04:36.200 --> 00:04:41.700\nthat well with the person that you're working for. So when that happens, I\n\n97\n00:04:41.700 --> 00:04:43.120\nthink you really\n\n98\n00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:47.550\nhave to say to yourself, can I change where I'm at enough to where I can get\n\n99\n00:04:47.550 --> 00:04:48.400\nthe passion\n\n100\n00:04:48.400 --> 00:04:54.150\nback? That's the first question. Can I grow the way I want to grow by staying\n\n101\n00:04:54.150 --> 00:04:54.800\nin that\n\n102\n00:04:54.800 --> 00:05:00.700\njob? That's the second question. If the answer is no to both of those questions\n\n103\n00:05:00.700 --> 00:05:01.520\n, I think it's\n\n104\n00:05:01.520 --> 00:05:06.160\ntime to seek the opportunity that's going to unlock more growth opportunities,\n\n105\n00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:06.480\nget your\n\n106\n00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:11.760\npassion back and help you be excited about going to work every day.\n\n107\n00:05:11.760 --> 00:05:17.000\nI really think passion at work is just an incredible thing to have. I love\n\n108\n00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:17.880\nWarren Buffett's\n\n109\n00:05:17.880 --> 00:05:24.450\nline that he tap dances to work. I love the fact that when people say you love\n\n110\n00:05:24.450 --> 00:05:25.160\nwhat you\n\n111\n00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.750\ndo, you never have to work another day in your life. I believe in all of that.\n\n112\n00:05:29.750 --> 00:05:31.160\nSo I wouldn't\n\n113\n00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:35.930\nspend a lot of time if I could help it, working someplace that's sapping my\n\n114\n00:05:35.930 --> 00:05:37.080\nenergy every day\n\n115\n00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:40.480\nand not getting me fired up to make things happen.\n\n116\n00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.460\nAnother thing to point out, and this is a leadership principle that is very\n\n117\n00:05:43.460 --> 00:05:44.120\nimportant to\n\n118\n00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:49.640\nbuild and one that guides him is this idea of finding your true north. He was\n\n119\n00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:50.680\nreally clear\n\n120\n00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:55.320\non what his true north was and how he wanted to lead and how he wanted to bring\n\n121\n00:05:55.320 --> 00:05:55.880\nhis unique\n\n122\n00:05:55.880 --> 00:06:00.320\nskills and gifts to the people that he led. When that true north was\n\n123\n00:06:00.320 --> 00:06:01.560\ncompromised because\n\n124\n00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:06.520\nof the job or the scenario that he was in, it was very obvious that those two\n\n125\n00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:07.080\nthings\n\n126\n00:06:07.080 --> 00:06:12.200\nwere not in alignment anymore. I think for a lot of folks, maybe especially the\n\n127\n00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:12.600\nleaders\n\n128\n00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.390\nearlier on in their career, you got to know number one what you're passionate\n\n129\n00:06:16.390 --> 00:06:17.760\nabout and\n\n130\n00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:22.690\nnumber two what you will and will not stand for because you can't know that the\n\n131\n00:06:22.690 --> 00:06:23.280\npassion\n\n132\n00:06:23.280 --> 00:06:27.240\nfor something is gone unless you know what the passion is to begin with. And so\n\n133\n00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:27.360\nwhat\n\n134\n00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:31.050\ncomes to mind for me is your exercise, David, on joy builders and joy blockers\n\n135\n00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:31.640\nand really\n\n136\n00:06:31.640 --> 00:06:36.640\nunderstanding what it is that you love to do and what your unique skills and\n\n137\n00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:37.440\ngifts really\n\n138\n00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:41.490\nare because if you don't know those things, then it's hard to know when you're\n\n139\n00:06:41.490 --> 00:06:41.840\nout of\n\n140\n00:06:41.840 --> 00:06:44.440\nalignment with what truly makes you tick.\n\n141\n00:06:44.440 --> 00:06:49.730\nYeah, I remember when I was in the advertising agency business, which I loved.\n\n142\n00:06:49.730 --> 00:06:49.800\nYou know,\n\n143\n00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:54.540\nI love being around creative people. I loved creating new things. I love\n\n144\n00:06:54.540 --> 00:06:56.080\nselling advertising\n\n145\n00:06:56.080 --> 00:07:03.200\nto the clients, but I worked in this agency where I was in charge of account\n\n146\n00:07:03.200 --> 00:07:04.440\nmanagement\n\n147\n00:07:04.440 --> 00:07:08.560\nand you know, I worked with the creative director who was in charge of the\n\n148\n00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:09.680\ncreative product\n\n149\n00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:14.800\nand we brought this person in and she was supposed to be a genius and you know,\n\n150\n00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:15.400\nwe wanted to\n\n151\n00:07:15.400 --> 00:07:20.120\ngive her the opportunity and the freedom to do the kind of creative work that\n\n152\n00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:20.760\nshe thought\n\n153\n00:07:20.760 --> 00:07:24.520\nthat would really be outstanding.\n\n154\n00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:30.810\nAnd I remember we had this campaign that she wanted to present a free delay and\n\n155\n00:07:30.810 --> 00:07:31.400\nI hated\n\n156\n00:07:31.400 --> 00:07:36.840\nit. I told her I hated it and gave her a lot of reasons why I hated it. And the\n\n157\n00:07:36.840 --> 00:07:37.160\npresident\n\n158\n00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:41.080\nof the agency said, you may hate it, but you're in account management and we\n\n159\n00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:41.720\nbrought her\n\n160\n00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:46.560\nin to do her thing. You got to go over there and sell it. Okay.\n\n161\n00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.040\nWell, so I go over to free delay and I meet with the president of free delay\n\n162\n00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:49.520\nand the head\n\n163\n00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:54.040\nof marketing at free delay and we present this campaign and they hated it. I\n\n164\n00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:54.480\nknew they'd\n\n165\n00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:58.680\nhate it and they hated it. Okay. And then they brought me into the room and\n\n166\n00:07:58.680 --> 00:07:59.440\nsaid, David,\n\n167\n00:07:59.440 --> 00:08:04.570\nhow could you bring this work to me? And there's a thing called the agency\n\n168\n00:08:04.570 --> 00:08:04.960\npoint of\n\n169\n00:08:04.960 --> 00:08:08.500\nview. Once the agency has a point of view on a piece of work, everybody needs\n\n170\n00:08:08.500 --> 00:08:09.080\nto go in\n\n171\n00:08:09.080 --> 00:08:14.520\nunited and sell that work. Well, at that point in time, I realized I'm not\n\n172\n00:08:14.520 --> 00:08:15.040\nreally going\n\n173\n00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:19.480\nto love the advertising agency very much. If I got to go sell work that I don't\n\n174\n00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:19.880\nreally\n\n175\n00:08:19.880 --> 00:08:24.770\nbelieve in. And then shortly thereafter, I got the opportunity to go be the\n\n176\n00:08:24.770 --> 00:08:25.120\nhead of\n\n177\n00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:30.410\nmarketing at Pizza Hut and then I became the client. And then I got to make the\n\n178\n00:08:30.410 --> 00:08:30.840\ndecisions\n\n179\n00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:36.180\non what kind of work that we would actually produce advertising for. And I\n\n180\n00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:36.800\nloved it so\n\n181\n00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:41.920\nmuch better because I didn't have to sacrifice my integrity. And I just felt\n\n182\n00:08:41.920 --> 00:08:43.600\nlike I was sacrificing\n\n183\n00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:48.500\nmy integrity, taking work to a client that I knew respected me that I didn't\n\n184\n00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:49.160\nbelieve\n\n185\n00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:54.510\nin. And I'll tell you what, once I crossed over and became a client, I became a\n\n186\n00:08:54.510 --> 00:08:55.400\nmuch happier\n\n187\n00:08:55.400 --> 00:09:01.160\nman because I was in control of the product that I would produce. All right,\n\n188\n00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:01.160\nquestion\n\n189\n00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:06.120\nnumber three, in the episode, you asked Bill how leaders stay focused on the\n\n190\n00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:07.280\nbig picture,\n\n191\n00:09:07.280 --> 00:09:11.600\neven when the company may be struggling in the short term. In fact, Bill says\n\n192\n00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:12.120\nthat it's\n\n193\n00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.820\nthe primary role of the leader to convey that big picture mission to the\n\n194\n00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:16.680\nemployees so they\n\n195\n00:09:16.680 --> 00:09:21.520\ndon't get distracted by temporary challenges. How do leaders do this? Well,\n\n196\n00:09:21.520 --> 00:09:22.280\nDavid, well,\n\n197\n00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:27.940\nnumber one, have a big picture mission. Number two, make sure that it's easily\n\n198\n00:09:27.940 --> 00:09:28.840\nunderstood.\n\n199\n00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:32.880\nAnd it doesn't sound like a bunch of gobbley gook. And number three,\n\n200\n00:09:32.880 --> 00:09:34.160\ncommunicate it every\n\n201\n00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:39.820\nsingle day and tie all the work that you do back to that mission as much as you\n\n202\n00:09:39.820 --> 00:09:40.200\ncan.\n\n203\n00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:45.300\nAnd number four, recognize all the people in the company that are helping make\n\n204\n00:09:45.300 --> 00:09:46.280\nthat mission\n\n205\n00:09:46.280 --> 00:09:51.970\nhappen. Now, I say all this. And I recognize that you can still go through some\n\n206\n00:09:51.970 --> 00:09:52.240\nshort term\n\n207\n00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.850\ndifficulties. But that's when I think the leader really has to step up. The\n\n208\n00:09:56.850 --> 00:09:57.760\nleader has to step\n\n209\n00:09:57.760 --> 00:10:03.820\nup and be positive and talk why the mission is more important now than ever and\n\n210\n00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:04.640\ndon't give\n\n211\n00:10:04.640 --> 00:10:08.610\nup on it, get more behind it because that's the way we're going to get out of\n\n212\n00:10:08.610 --> 00:10:09.200\nthe ditch\n\n213\n00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.160\nand that's the way we're going to succeed together.\n\n214\n00:10:12.160 --> 00:10:14.850\nYou know, David, one of the things that really stood out to me in your\n\n215\n00:10:14.850 --> 00:10:16.160\nconversation with Bill\n\n216\n00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:21.470\nwas how he just keeps that big picture mission in front of his employees to\n\n217\n00:10:21.470 --> 00:10:23.120\nkeep them motivated,\n\n218\n00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.480\nto show up to work and do the best they can do. You know, at Medtronic, where\n\n219\n00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:27.880\nhe was CEO,\n\n220\n00:10:27.880 --> 00:10:33.420\ntheir noble cause and their mission was measured by the number of seconds it\n\n221\n00:10:33.420 --> 00:10:34.720\ntook for a human\n\n222\n00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:41.340\nbeing's life to be saved by a Medtronic device. And that vision and mission\n\n223\n00:10:41.340 --> 00:10:42.200\nputs a lot of\n\n224\n00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:46.960\nmeaning behind the work that people do every single day, whether they're making\n\n225\n00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:47.400\nthese\n\n226\n00:10:47.400 --> 00:10:52.270\ndevices or on the corporate side. It puts a lot of value into what they do\n\n227\n00:10:52.270 --> 00:10:53.320\nevery day.\n\n228\n00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:57.300\nAnd it is motivating enough to keep going even though you might come across\n\n229\n00:10:57.300 --> 00:10:57.960\nchallenges\n\n230\n00:10:57.960 --> 00:10:59.120\nin the day to day work.\n\n231\n00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.730\nWell, I think that's a great point. You know, one of the things that Yum is\n\n232\n00:11:02.730 --> 00:11:03.360\nthat we knew\n\n233\n00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:08.160\nwe didn't exist without customers. So our mission, when we started the company,\n\n234\n00:11:08.160 --> 00:11:08.360\nwas to\n\n235\n00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.760\nput a Yum on our customers' faces all around the world, you know, just make our\n\n236\n00:11:11.760 --> 00:11:12.240\ncustomers\n\n237\n00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:16.110\nhappy. Everybody understood that and everybody knew that the reason why we'd be\n\n238\n00:11:16.110 --> 00:11:16.640\nsuccessful\n\n239\n00:11:16.640 --> 00:11:26.520\nis whether we did it or not. And we kept that front and center.\n\n240\n00:11:26.520 --> 00:11:30.600\nAnother fantastic three more questions episode with excellent insight from you,\n\n241\n00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:31.520\nDavid Novak.\n\n242\n00:11:31.520 --> 00:11:35.280\nThanks again to our listeners for tuning in to another episode of How Leaders\n\n243\n00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:35.800\nLead. We\n\n244\n00:11:35.800 --> 00:11:39.160\nare on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders.\n\n245\n00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:39.240\nAnd if\n\n246\n00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:42.690\nyou carve out a little time with us, each and every week will help you build\n\n247\n00:11:42.690 --> 00:11:43.520\nthe confidence\n\n248\n00:11:43.520 --> 00:11:45.440\nyou need to lead well.\n\n249\n00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:49.200\nAnd tune in this Thursday for my conversation with Michael Bungay-Stannier,\n\n250\n00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:50.000\nbest-selling\n\n251\n00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.780\nauthor of The Coaching Habit and founder of Box of Crayons, a leadership\n\n252\n00:11:54.780 --> 00:11:55.720\ndevelopment\n\n253\n00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:59.240\ncompany that helps leaders tap into the power of curiosity.\n\n254\n00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:09.240\n[BLANK_AUDIO]\n","

Koula Callahan 0:04

Welcome to How leaders lead. I'm cooler Callahan here to bring you another edition of three more questions with David Novak. David, it's great to see you again. How are you today?

David Novak 0:12

I'm doing fantastic. And I'm really looking forward to our conversation today as we take a deeper dive into the podcast we did with Bill George, the former chairman and CEO of Medtronic, and one of the great CEOs of our era,

Koula Callahan 0:27

this conversation is fascinating, you can tell that Bill George is just an unbelievably smart leader, he also leads with a lot of heart. And I always love learning from leaders who pair their intellect and skill with true passion for what they do, and a real recognition of their unique gifts that they can bring the world and how they can bake that into their leadership style.

David Novak 0:52

Well, Bill definitely does that. Because you're right, he is a very, very smart guy. He knows his business cold. He's constantly learning. He's teaching at Harvard now. He really is passionate about making the world a better place by developing better leaders. So we add a real common bond and a shared vision. And it's really terrific to learn from somebody like Bill who's done so much and been so successful throughout his career.

Koula Callahan 1:19

Well, we're gonna get your take on some of the topics you chatted with Bill about. So without further ado, let's roll into our first question of today's episode.

Question number one, they'll says that if a leader doesn't know what's going on, on the front lines of their business, they don't know what's going on, period. David, I know you shared the same approach. And I'd love for you to help leaders listening, understand how they can eliminate the layers that build up between them, and the people who work on the frontlines of their business.

David Novak 1:56

The first thing is just to recognize and value what the frontline can bring to the party. The frontline is closest to operations, it's closest to the customer, and they really know what's going on and, and if you're a leader, and you really want to know what's going on, you need to be out on the frontlines talking to your team members and finding out what they're learning. And the biggest thing that I think he can do is just get out of the corner office or get out or whatever office you're in, and get out there and and talk to the people who are really making it happen. And ask them what's working, what's not what they would do if they were you and you will get amazing learning that will help you grow the business.

Koula Callahan 2:46

Well, you know, your episode with Jim fish, who is the CEO of waste management talks about this as well, he actually gets in the waste management trucks with drivers about once a month, even still to this day. And it's just such a testament to his commitment to always having a pulse on what his frontline employees are dealing with and how they can continue to serve customers. Well,

David Novak 3:09

yeah, I think one good point about that is that, you know, one way to stay in touch with the frontline is actually do the frontline jobs. You know, make sure you as a leader, no matter how high up you might be, you go do the jobs. You know, when I was a KFC, I bred the chicken, you know, and I was at Pizza Hut, you know, I put the pepperonis on the pizza and did the pan pizza dough fresh every day, you know, I and when I was at Taco Bell, I learned how to be a stuffer. You know, it's all you know, you learn what the frontline goes through. And that gives you a tremendous empathy for the challenge of the job and the responsibility, you have to make sure you help them do their job by eliminating all the barriers and obstacles that get in the way of them serving customers.

Koula Callahan 3:58

Question number two, after a number of years working at Honeywell, it became clear to bill that he had lost his passion for the job and needed to make a change for leaders out there who might be in a similar position knowing that maybe they aren't utilizing their skills in the way that they want to anymore. What do you do when you lose passion for your job? And you're thinking about making a change? How do you come to that decision?

David Novak 4:24

When you lose your passion for a job? It's usually because you're not growing, or you're not fundamentally aligned with the culture that exists in that job. Or you don't get along that well with the person that you're working for. So when that happens, I think you really have to say to yourself, can I change where I'm at enough to where I can get the passion back? That's the first question. Can I grow the way I want to grow by staying in that job? That's the second question. If the answer's no to both of those question, chins, I think it's time to seek the opportunity that's going to unlock more growth opportunities, get your passion back and help you be excited about going to work every day. You know, I really think passion at work is just an incredible thing to have, you know, I love Warren Buffett's line, you know that he tap dances to work. You know, I love the fact that when you know, people say you love what you do, you never have to work another day in your life, I believe in all of that. So, you know, I wouldn't spend a lot of time if I could help it, you know, work in some place that sapping my energy every day and not not getting me fired up to make things happen.

Koula Callahan 5:40

Another thing to point out, and this is a leadership principle that is very important to Bill and one that guides him is this idea of finding your true north. And he was really clear on what his true north was and how he wanted to lead and how he wanted to bring his unique skills and gifts to the people that he led. And so when that TrueNorth was compromised, because of the job, or the scenario that he was in, it was very obvious that those two things were not in alignment anymore. And so I think for a lot of folks, maybe especially the leaders earlier on in their career, you got to know number one, what you're passionate about. And number two, what you will and will not stand for because you can't know that the passion for something is gone unless you know what the passion is to begin with. And so what comes to mind, for me is your exercise, David on Joy builders and joy blockers in really understanding what it is that you love to do and what your unique skills and gifts really are. Because if you don't know those things, then it's hard to know, when you're out of alignment with what truly makes you tick.

David Novak 6:44

Yeah, I remember when I was in the advertising agency business, which I loved. You know, I love being around creative people, I love creating new things. I love selling advertising the clients, but I worked in this agency, where I was in charge of account management. And, you know, I worked with the creative director who was in charge of the creative product. And we we brought this person in and she was supposed to be a genius. And, you know, we wanted to give her the the opportunity and the freedom to do the kind of creative work that she thought that would really be outstanding. And I remember we had this campaign that she wanted to present a Frito Lay, and I hated it. I told her I hated it gave her a lot of reasons why I hated it. And the President of the agency said You may hate it. But you're then account management and we brought her in to do her thing. You got to go over there and solid. Okay. Well, so I go over to Frito Lay and I meet with the president FRITO lay in the Head of Marketing at Frito. Lay, we present this campaign and they hated it. I knew they'd hate it and they hated it. Okay. And then they brought me into the room and said, David, how could you bring this work to me. And there's a thing called the agency point of view, once the agency has a point of view on a piece of work, everybody needs to go in United and sell that work? Well, at that point in time, I realized, I'm not really going to love the advertising agency very much if I got to go sell work that I don't really believe in. And then shortly thereafter, I got the opportunity to go be the Head of Marketing at Pizza Hut. And then I became the client. And then I got to make the decisions on what kind of work that we would actually produce advertising for. And you know, I loved it so much better because I didn't have to sacrifice my integrity. And, you know, I just felt like I was sacrificing my integrity, taking work to a client that I knew respected me that I didn't believe in. And I'll tell you what, once I crossed over and became a client, I became a much happier man because I was in control of the product that I would produce.

Koula Callahan 8:59

Alright, question number three. In the episode you ask Phil, how leaders stay focused on the big picture, even when the company may be struggling in the short term. In fact, Bill says that it's the primary role of the leader to convey that big picture mission to the employees so they don't get distracted by temporary challenges. How do leaders do this? Well, David,

David Novak 9:22

Well, number one, have a big picture mission. Number two, make sure that it's easily understood. And it doesn't sound like a bunch of gobbledygook. And number three, communicated every single day and tie all the work that you do back to that mission as much as you can. And number four, recognize all the people in the company that are helping make that mission happen. Now, I say all this, and I recognize that you can still go through some short term difficulties, but that's when I think the leader really has to step up. The leader has to step up and be positive and talk why the mission is more important now than ever. And don't give up on it, get more behind it, because that's the way we're going to get out of the ditch. And that's the way we're going to succeed together.

Koula Callahan 10:11

You know, David, one of the things that really stood out to me in your conversation with Bill was how he just keeps that big picture mission in front of his employees to keep them motivated to show up to work and do the best they can do, you know, at Medtronic, where he was CEO, their noble cause and their mission was measured by the number of seconds it took for a human beings life to be saved by a Medtronic device. And that vision and mission puts a lot of meaning behind the work that people do every single day, whether they're making these devices or on the corporate side, it puts a lot of value into what they do every day. And it is motivating enough to keep going even though you might come across challenges in the day to day work.

David Novak 10:59

Well, I think it's a great point. You know, one of the things that Yum, is that we knew we didn't exist with our customers. So our mission, when we started the company, was to put a yum on our customers faces all around the world, you know, just make our customers happy. Everybody understood that. And everybody knew that the reason why we'd be successful is whether we did it or not. And we kept that from

Koula Callahan 11:26

another fantastic three more questions episode with excellent insight from you, David Novak. Thanks again to our listeners for tuning in to another episode of how leaders lead. We're on a mission to make the world a better place by developing better leaders. And if you carve out a little time with us each and every week, we'll help you build the confidence you need to lead well,

David Novak 11:45

and tune in this Thursday for my conversation with Michael Bungay Stanier Best Selling Author of the Coaching Habit and founder of Box of Crayons a leadership development company that helps leaders tap into the power of curiosity.

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